Q1 2025 Tsakos Energy Navigation Ltd Earnings Call
Thank you for standing by ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to sockets Energy Navigation conference call on the first quarter of 2025 financial results.
Unknown Executive: Thank you for standing by, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Tsakos Energy Navigation conference call on the first quarter 2025 financial results.
Unknown Executive: If we have with us today, Mr. Takis Aripaglou, Chairman of the Board, Mr. Nikolas Tsakos, Founder and CEO, Mr. Paul Durham, Chief Financial Officer.
Speaker Change: With us today Mr attack this Arab Lu Chairman of the board Mr. Nikolas, Tsakos, founder and CEO, Mr. Paul Durham, Chief Financial Officer, Mr. George <unk>, President and Chief operating Officer, Mr. Harry costs modest co CFO of the company.
Unknown Executive: George Saroglou, President and Chief Operating Officer, Mr. Harry Kosmatos, Co-CFO of At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session, at which time, if you wish to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced.
Speaker Change: At this time all participants are in a listen only mode. There will be a presentation followed by a question and answer session at which time if you wish to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad and wait for your name to be announced I must advise that this conference is being recorded today and now I'll pass the floor over to Mr. Nicolas <unk> President of capital.
Nicolas Bornozis: I must advise that this conference is being recorded today, and now I'll pass the floor over to Mr. Nicolas Bornozis, President of CapitalLink and an Investor Relations Advisor to Tsakos Energy Navigation Ltd. Please go ahead.
Lincoln: Lincoln Investor Relations advisor to Tsakos energy Navigation L. T. D. Please go ahead Sir.
Speaker Change: Good morning, and thank you very much.
Nicolas Bornozis: Good morning and thank you very much. Good morning to all of our participants.
Speaker Change: Good morning to all of our participants I am Nicolas Barton I'll, just spreads would've kept a link in the Investor Relations advisor to Tsakos energy navigation.
Nicolas Bornozis: I am Nikolas Bornozis, President of CapitaLink and Investor Relations Advisor to Tsakos Energy Navigation.
Nicolas Bornozis: This morning, the company publicly released its financial results for the first quarter ended March 31st, 2025. In case you do not have a copy of today's earnings release, please call us at 212-661-7566 or email us at 10 at capitallink.com and we will have a copy for you emailed right away. Please note that parallel to today's conference call, there is also a live audio and slide webcast which can be accessed on the company's website on the front page at www.tenn.gr. The conference call will follow the presentation slides, so please, we urge you to access the presentation slides on the company's website.
Speaker Change: This morning, the company publicly released its financial results for the first quarter ended March 31st 2025.
Speaker Change: Because we do not have a copy of today's earnings release, please call us.
Speaker Change: Do you want to sit since one southern 566 or email us at 10 at the capital link Dot Com and we will have a copy for you in the right away.
Speaker Change: Please note that parallel to today's conference call. There is also a live audio and slide webcast, which can be accessed on the company's website on the front page at Www Dot P E and M D.
Speaker Change: We are the conference call will follow the presentation slides. So please we urge you to access the presentation slides on the company's website.
Nicolas Bornozis: Please note that the slides of the webcast presentation will be available and archived on the website of the company after the conference call. Also, please note that the slides of the presentation are user-controlled, and that means that by clicking on the proper button, you can move to the next or to the previous slide on your own.
Speaker Change: Please note that the slides of the webcast presentation will be available and archived on the website of the company. After the conference call also please note that the slides of the presentation I'll use a controlled and that means that by clicking on the proper button you can move to the next over the previous slide on your own.
Nicolas Bornozis: At this time, I would like to read the Safe Harbor Statement. This conference call and slide presentation of the webcast contains certain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor Provision of the Private Security Litigation Reform Act of 1995. Investors are cautioned that such forward-looking statements involve risks and uncertainties which may affect tense business prospects and results of operations.
Speaker Change: This time I would like to read the Safe Harbor statement.
Speaker Change: This call and slide presentation of the webcast contains certain forward looking statements within the meaning of the safe Harbor provision of the private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 investors are cautioned that such forward looking statements involve risks and uncertainties, which may affect ten's business prospects and results of operations.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Nicolas Bornozis: And before I pass the floor over to the chairman, please let me wish a belated birthday to Dr. Tsakos and his wife Celia. And I understand that you had a very special birthday gift being in Korea and taking care of the delivery of the Schwedt-Max Tanker Dr. Irene Tsakos. That vessel bears your mother's name and the vessel will have the Greek flag. And also, you had at the same time the naming of the sister vessel, Celia T, which will bear your wife's name. So, it has been a very special moment in the company's history and I'd like to congratulate you.
Speaker Change: And before I pass the floor over to the chairman. Please let me wish a belated birthday too little chocolate and his wife silly and Ah I understand that you've got a very special a birthday gift being in Korea, and taking care of the delivery.
Speaker Change: So that's nice tanker doctoral Eileen tackles, the vessel bears your mother's name and the vessel will have the Greek flag and also you had at the same time the naming of the sister vessel suddenly a tea, which was there is my wife's name. So it has been a very special.
Speaker Change: Moment in the company's fiscal year, and I'd like to congratulate you and with this I.
Takis Aripaglou: And with this, I will pass the floor to Mr. Arapoglou, the chairman of Tsakos Energy Navigation. Mr. Arapoglou, please go ahead. Thank you. Thank you, Nicolas. Good morning. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you again for joining us today in our call reporting our Q1 results. That's another quarter of excellent financial results, driven by the usual. Supported, of course, by strong market fundamentals. This allows them to continue rewarding shareholders. with a healthy dividend as it has been doing continuously since inception. As you've read in the press release... Ten has built a continuously and continuously growing on a rolling base.
Speaker Change: I will now pass the floor to Mr. Luke the full amount of cycles and each and every day.
Speaker Change: So let me pull it up a little please go ahead.
Speaker Change: Thank you thank goodness.
Speaker Change: Good morning, and good afternoon, everyone.
Speaker Change: Thank you again for joining us today now call reporting our Q1 results.
Speaker Change: It's another quarter of excellent financial results driven by the usual should.
Speaker Change: Superior operating drag correctly, then so.
Speaker Change: Supported of course by strong market fundamentals.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: This allows them to continue rewarding shareholders.
Speaker Change: With a healthy dividend as it has been doing continuously.
Speaker Change: Since inception.
Speaker Change: As you've read in the press release.
Speaker Change: Dennis has built a continuously and continuously grows on a rolling basis, a stream of high quality committed future income.
Takis Aripaglou: a stream of high quality committed future income. of which ensures profitability limit. volatility and provide greater predictability in its earnings. at the same time, of course, then continuously renews the fleet. with modern state-of-the-art vessels. through an unprecedented in size 21 vessels now being built. and selling our old stock planning. You would agree that this is not the typical, more sensitive model of shipping companies protecting them against market shortcomings. We believe that all these positive characteristics of the TEN Industrial Model are not properly reflected on our stock price. which is being valued in the same way as other companies in the sector with much less robust attributes.
Speaker Change: Currently approximately $3 7 billion spanning over a number of years through long term accretive charters or a substantial part of its fleet.
Speaker Change: Which ensures profitability limit.
Speaker Change: Volatility and provide greater predictability and its earnings.
Speaker Change: At the same time of course, then continuously the news of the fleet.
Speaker Change: With modern state of the art vessels.
Speaker Change: But who are an unprecedented in size 21 vessels.
Speaker Change: It was being built.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: And selling our older tonnage.
Speaker Change: You would agree that this is not the typical more sensitive model of shipping companies protecting them against market shortcomings yet.
Speaker Change: We believe.
Speaker Change: That's all the positive characteristics of the 10 industrial model.
Speaker Change: Not really a threat properly reflected in our stock price.
Speaker Change: Well she's being valued in the same way as other companies in the sector with much less robust.
Speaker Change: Attributes there.
Takis Aripaglou: This is perhaps because most followers of the sector have a much shorter time horizon than our industrial model deserves.
Speaker Change: This is perhaps because most followers over the sector has a much shorter time horizon than that.
Speaker Change: Our industrial model deserves we hope.
Takis Aripaglou: We hope... that investors will focus on this and upgrade their valuation of our stock. I'll leave you to reflect on this and congratulate again Nikolas Tsakos and his team. for the excellent results and wish them more of the same.
Speaker Change: The investors will focus on this and upgrade their valuation the last spoke.
Speaker Change: I leave you to reflect on this and congratulate again nikos tsakos and his team.
Speaker Change: Well the excellent results and wish them more of the same.
Nikolas Tsakos: So thank you and over to you, Nikolas. Thank you, Chairman, and good morning, good afternoon to all of you that are following our first quarter of 2025 results. As the chairman said, it has been a solid period. We are navigating literally in very turbulent waters around the world, more for geopolitical events. I mean, the beginning of the year has been a wave of uncertainty as far as business, our business possibilities, a lot of talk about tariffs, a lot of talk about extra port costs, a lot of talk about protectionism, and of course now this very unsettling situation that is escalating in the Middle East that I think cannot make anybody happy.
Speaker Change: So thank you and over to you in English.
Speaker Change: Thank you chairman and good morning, good afternoon to all of you that are following.
Speaker Change: First quarter.
Speaker Change: Of go into 25 results.
Speaker Change: As the chairman said it has been.
Speaker Change: Surely the period.
Speaker Change: We're navigating literally.
Speaker Change: Very.
Speaker Change: Terrible in the waters around the world and multiple geopolitical events I mean at the beginning of the year has been.
Speaker Change: A wave of uncertainty.
Speaker Change: As a business.
Speaker Change: Our business possibilities.
Speaker Change: A lot of talk about tariffs a lot of talk.
Speaker Change: How about the extra extra board of course, a lot of talk about protectionism and of course, no there's really I'm settling situation.
Speaker Change: This escalating in the middle East, but I think I'm not I'm not make anybody happy.
Speaker Change: However.
Nikolas Tsakos: We have been able to navigate these turbulent waters again successfully, safely, and profitably for the majority of course our main... Profitability is important, but the safety of our crew and the people on board our ships is even more important and we have had another Good run and safe run on this segment. Regardless of the uncertainties. The underlying market conditions are strong. It is very hard for us and our chartering team to maintain any vessels in the spot market. There is a huge demand for taking even older ships and I will give you examples which I haven't seen in my 30 plus years in business.
Speaker Change: We have been able to navigate these turbulent waters again.
Speaker Change: <unk> successfully safely and profitably for the.
Speaker Change: The majority of course Oh.
Speaker Change: Our main.
Speaker Change: Profitability is important but the safety of our crew and get people on board. Their ships is even more important and we have had another.
Speaker Change: We're going to run in and save for that on a on this.
Speaker Change: Segment.
Speaker Change: Regardless over the uncertainties.
Speaker Change: The underlying.
Speaker Change: Market conditions are strong.
Speaker Change: It is very hard for us in our chartering team to maintain any vessels in the spot market. There is a huge demand for taking even older ships and I will give you examples which I haven't seen in my 30 plus years in business.
Speaker Change: Any any of our ships can be turned into you know anywhere up to 10 to 15 years even older.
Nikolas Tsakos: Any of our ships can be chartered anywhere up to 10 to 15 years, even older, good quality ships that we operate, as I'm sure you know, and I mean we have one of our oldest, if not our oldest ship. The environment is good. The company is going through its largest growth until the next one, because that was something we were saying a couple of years ago when we sold 14 of our first generation ships and ordered another 17. We're actually now at 21 new buildings, two of them just delivered last week.
Speaker Change: Older good quality ships that we operate.
Speaker Change: As I'm sure you know.
Speaker Change: And I mean, we have one of our oldest or if not our oldest ship.
Speaker Change: But even older than that my twin daughters.
Speaker Change: It keeps on being chartered by one of the big major oil companies year. After year I think cities right now on her 2020th extension and she's a 23 years old and she's extended for another six option six months and that shows that the good quality operators and provides.
Speaker Change: Good service AIDS is not important.
Speaker Change: Quality of the assets. So the environment is good the company is going through its.
Speaker Change: It's not just the growth.
Speaker Change: And until the next one because that was something we were saying a couple of years ago. When we sold 14, Nevada first generation ships in order to another.
Speaker Change: 17 are we're actually now with the 21 new buildings two of them just delivered last week.
Nikolas Tsakos: Thank you, Nik, for your wishes. on this very milestone. and yes and we are looking at other opportunities. There are segments that we are right now under invested like the VLCCs and always looking at good quality Korean or Japanese vessels as a priority and perhaps we will come up with some surprises later in the following quarters on that.
Speaker Change: Thank you Nick for your wishes there.
Speaker Change: On this are very milestone.
Speaker Change: Oh occasion.
Speaker Change: And yes, and we are looking at other opportunities. There are segments that we are right now on the investors like the Vlccs and are always looking at a good quality Korean or Japanese restaurants, as a priority and perhaps we'll come up with some surprises in there.
Speaker Change: Following quarters on that.
Nikolas Tsakos: And with this I will ask our President to give us a quick over what we have done up to now. And, you know, I think the things to remember, the share price is being treated together with the other companies. We went down from our $30, $31 one-year high to almost half of that. We're making some progress, but our net asset value without $3.7 billion of future business is in excess of $60. So we are really, really in undervalued territory here and a good opportunity. But we've been penalized together with the rest of the market and the nervousness.
Speaker Change: And with this I will ask our president to give us a quick.
Speaker Change: Over to you what do we have done up to now I.
Speaker Change: I think the things to remember there is a surprise it's been treated.
Speaker Change: Together with our with the other companies when we went down from about $30.
Speaker Change: The $1, one ear high to almost half of that though we're making some progress, but our net asset value without three 7 billion.
Speaker Change: All four of our.
Speaker Change: Our future business is in excess of $60 or we are we are really really in a in undervalued territory here and a good opportunity, but we have been penalized together with the rest of the market and the nervousness 'twenty.
Speaker Change: 29 vessels have been extended extended or new businesses within the first six months of the year.
Nikolas Tsakos: Twenty-nine vessels have been extended or new businesses within the first six months of the year. So that's 29 out of the 62 vessels in the water. So half of the fleet has been extended for a very long period of time. and presented the future revenues going forward of 3.7 billion U.S. dollars. So I think these are serious numbers, we announced still a healthy dividend and hopefully we will be able to maintain and perhaps increase that going forward.
Speaker Change: 29 out of the 62 vessels in the water. So half of the fleet has been extended for a very long period of time and we have reached a according to polls.
Speaker Change: What was it.
Speaker Change: And presented the future.
Speaker Change: Future revenues or going forward of 37 billion U S. Dollar. So I think these are serious numbers, we announced there is still a healthy dividend and hopefully we will be able to maintain and perhaps increase that going forward and the jaws tell me how are the prospects for that.
George Saroglou: And George tell me, how are the prospects for that? Thank you Nikos, we are very pleased to report today another profitable quarter. We continue to operate in a very good freight market environment. Energy majors continue to approach our company for time charter business and as Mr. Tsakos mentioned since the start of the year we have had 29 new time charter Total Sleep Contracted Revenue, the backlog as of today, stands approximately at 3.7 billion. We have built in TEN one of the largest transport networks of energy in the world. We have started with four vessels back in 1993.
Speaker Change: We are very pleased to report today another profitable quarter.
Speaker Change: We continue to operate in a very good freight market environment energy majors.
Speaker Change: Phoenix will approach our company for time charter business and as Mr. Tsakos.
Speaker Change: As mentioned since the start of the year, we have had 29, new time charter fixtures.
Speaker Change: Total fleet contracted revenue backlog as of today stands at approximately $3 7 billion.
Speaker Change: We have built in 10, one of the largest transport type of finishing the work. We have started with four vessels back in 1993, and we have every crisis have worn and shipping has faced into a growth opportunity.
George Saroglou: And we have turned every crisis the world and shipping has faced into a growth of opportunity. We now have a pro-forma fleet of 82 vessels, thanks to the company's crisis-resistant And during these 32 years, we have combined self-generated cash, traditional bank lenders and Counter-Cyclical Capital Market Fundraising in order to build the corporate The fleet today is modern, diversified and versatile, covering both the conventional and specialized transportation requirements of our clients. These are mainly the major oil companies, blue chip names with global reach.
Speaker Change: We now have a pro forma fleet of the vessels.
Speaker Change: Company's crisis resistant model.
Speaker Change: And during these two years, we have combined self generating cash and additional bank lending.
Speaker Change: In counter cyclical capital market fund raising in order to build a corporately.
Speaker Change: Definitely today's modern diversified and versatile covering both the conventional and specialized transportation requirements of our clients, which are mainly the major oil companies Blue chip names with normal range.
Speaker Change: In slide five we list the pro forma fleet of our conventional tankers, both crude and product got here.
George Saroglou: On slide 5 we list the pro forma fleet of all conventional tankers, both crews and product carriers. The red color shows the vessels that trade in the spot market and are new buildings under construction, especially when you see instead of a vessel name the ticker NBTBN. With light blue we have the vessels that are on time chart with profit sharing and with dark blue the vessels that are on fixed rate time chart.
Speaker Change: That's the color for the vessels that trade in the spot market and a new buildings under construction, especially when you see is that instead of a vessel name.
Speaker Change: And B E B N.
Speaker Change: Besides <unk>, we have no vessels out on time charter with profit sharing and was that the vessels are on fixed rate time charters.
George Saroglou: The next slide. the Proforma diversified fleet, which consists of our two LNG vessels and our 16 vessel shuttle tankers. We are one of the largest subtle tanker operators in the world, following the recently announced deal with Transpetro in Brazil for nine high-specification subtle tanker... built in the Tsamshung Shipyard on South Bay. We have five shuttle tankers in full operation after taking a recent delivery of Athens 04 which commenced a long time charter to an energy company.
Speaker Change: Next slide please.
Speaker Change: Diversified fleet, which consists of our two LNG vessels and our 16 vessels shuttle tankers.
Speaker Change: Fleet.
Speaker Change: We had one of the largest shuttle tanker operators in the world. Following the recently announced deal with it I spent very impressive.
Speaker Change: Nine five specification shuttle tankers.
Speaker Change: In the Samsung shipyard in South Korea.
Speaker Change: We have five shuttle tankers and full operation after taking a recently, leaving a faucet zero port which commenced in long time charter when energy majors.
George Saroglou: If we combine the two slides and account only for the current operating fleet of 63 vessels... 29 or 46% of the operating fleet has market exposure, that is, spot-related rates and time-sharted with profit sharing. while 52% or 83% of the fleet is in secured revenue contracts, that is fixed-time charters and timed charters with profit sharing.
Speaker Change: If we combine the two slides and accounts only for the current operating fleet of 63 vessels 29, or 46% of your hope anything fleet is market exposure.
Speaker Change: These sports related rates and time charter with profit sharing.
Speaker Change: While 52 patents.
Speaker Change: Center of the fleet using secured revenue contracts.
Speaker Change: Fixed time charters and time charters with profit sharing.
Speaker Change: The next slide has a first class.
George Saroglou: The next slide has the clients with whom we do repeat business through the year, thanks to our industrial model. ExxonMobil is the largest revenue client, Equinor, Shell, Chevron, Total Energy, and BP Ford. We believe that over the years we have become the carrier of choice to energy majors thanks to the fleet that we built, the operational and safety record, the disciplined financial approach and the strong balance sheet and financial performance.
Speaker Change: One is going to be doing business for the year, thanks to our industrial model.
Speaker Change: Exxon Mobil is the largest revenue client and we know Sam Chevron pattern energy and BP follow.
Speaker Change: We believe that over the years, we have become the kind of choice to energy major thanks to the fleet that we built the operational and safety record.
Speaker Change: Disciplined financial approach and the strong balance sheet and financial performance.
Speaker Change: The next slides is that sort of the breakeven cost for the various vessel types, we operate in the company.
George Saroglou: The next slide presents all the breakeven costs for the various vessel types we operate in the company. And as we have said many times, our operating model is simple. We try to have our time charter vessels generate revenue to cover the company's cash expenses and let the revenue from the spot rating vessels contribute to the profitability of the company. Thanks to the profit-sharing element, for every $1,000 increase in spot rates, we have a positive $0.13 impact in annual earnings per share, based on the number of 10 vessels that currently have exposure to spot radiation. We have a solid balance sheet with strong cash reserves.
Speaker Change: As we have said many times our operating model is simple we try to have our time chartering vessels generate revenue to cover the company's gas expenses and let the revenue from the spot trading vessels contributing to the profitability of the company.
Speaker Change: Thanks for the profit sharing element for every $1000 increase in spot rates would have a positive self incense park unanimous add earnings per share based on the number of investments currently have exposure to floating rates.
Speaker Change: We have a solid balance sheet with strong cash reserves at fair market value of the fleet is $3 6 billion against approximately $1 7 billion of debt and net debt to cap stands around 40%.
George Saroglou: The fair market value of the fleet... 1.7 billion of debt and net debt to CAP currently stands around 40%.
Speaker Change: Fleet renewal has been to keep our operating model.
George Saroglou: Fleet Renewal has been key to our operating model. On the January 1st of 2023, we have further upgraded the quality of the... by divesting from first generation conventional tankers, replacing them with more energy efficient new buildings and modern second hand tankers including dual fuel vessels. In summary, we have sold 14 vessels with an average age of 17.3 years. We continue to transition the fleet to greener and dual-fuel vessels. We are currently one of the largest owners of dual-fuel LNG-powered Aframax tanks. Global oil demand continues to grow year after year, wars and geopolitical events positively affect the tanker market, and freight rates and the order book remains at healthy levels as a big part of the global fleet is over 20 years and needs to be replaced.
Speaker Change: January 1st half 2023 we have further upgraded the quality of the fleet by divesting from first generation conventional tankers and replacing them with more energy efficient buildings, and modern secondhand tankers, including dual fuel vessels and somebody we have shrunk 14 vessels with an average age.
Speaker Change: 17, three years and that with capacity of 1.2 million deadweight ton and replace them with certain contracted and more than acquiring vessels with an average age of less than a year and three times the deadweight capacity of the vessels we saw it.
Speaker Change: We continue to transition our fleet to greener and dual fuel vessels. We are currently one of the largest owners.
Speaker Change: LNG powered aframax tankers with six vessels in the water.
Speaker Change: Demand continues to grow year after year worsening geopolitical events positively affecting the tanker markets and freight rates and the order book remains at healthy levels as a big part of the global fleet is over 20 years and needs to be replaced and with that I will pass the floor hottest with muscles.
Harrys Kosmatos: And with that, I will pass the floor to Harrys Kosmatos, who will walk us through the financial performance for the first quarter. Hello. Hello, New York team, could you please check if you're, sorry about that. Yes, hi. Thank you, George. Thank you, George, for passing on the major points that I think we need to highlight.
Speaker Change: Who will walk us through the financial performance for the third quarter hiring.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Hello.
Speaker Change: Hello, do you I mean could you please yeah, Oh, sorry Hello.
Tony: Yes, Hi, Tony.
Speaker Change: Thank you George for a possible the major point that I think we need to highlight and we'd be subtle I'll just go over a brief overview of the financials.
Harrys Kosmatos: And with this, I will just go over a brief overview of the financials that we presented earlier today. So during the first quarter of 2025, TEM operated just about 62 vessels, one over the equivalent 2024 period, and shifted fleet employment more towards secure revenue contracts to capture the increased appetite from oil majors to launch their long-term transportation needs. As a result, sense exposure to spot contrast increased from about 73% in the first quarter of 2024 to 80% in the third quarter of 2025. By contrast, the fleet's pure spot exposure between the 2024 and 2025 first quarter periods declined from 19% to about 18%.
Speaker Change: We presented earlier today.
Speaker Change: So during the first quarter of 2025 10 operated that's about 62 vessels one over the Cleveland clinic for period.
Speaker Change: And for them and more towards Q complex, who perhaps are they equally spotify from oil majors to north of the long term cash needs.
Speaker Change: As a result, that's exposed to the spot contracts increased from about 3% in the first quarter of 'twenty 'twenty, 4% to 80% in the fourth quarter of 75.
Speaker Change: By contrast, the fleet pure spot exposure between the 'twenty 'twenty four 'twenty five.
Speaker Change: First quarter period declined from 19%.
Speaker Change: 18%.
Harrys Kosmatos: Despite this recalibration of fleet employment to conform with TEN's industrial approach to shipping, TEN's ability to maintain a notable presence in the steel-healthy, strong spot market was actually enhanced as emphasis was placed on profit-sharing contracts, which when combined with spot pickers, increased the fleet's ability to capture market peaks. from 44% in last year's quarter to 47% in this year's quarter. Staying on fleet dynamics, during the first quarter of 2025, two vessels underwent scheduled dry docking, compared to five in the 2024 first quarter, ensuring a near maximum fleet utilization of 97.2%. Resulting from the above, the larger fleet, the higher fleet utilization and the increased base and secure revenue contracts somewhat neutralized earnings pressure the soft spot market earlier in the year may have created.
Speaker Change: Spike this recalibration will slip employment to conform testing bacterial approach to things.
Speaker Change: Our ability to maintain and multiple questions in a still healthy strong spot market.
Speaker Change: Hum.
Speaker Change: Pluses was placed on certain contracts, which when combined.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: The capital market day.
Speaker Change: From 44%.
Speaker Change: Third quarter.
Speaker Change: 47%.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: Staying on the big dynamic.
Speaker Change: Cool.
Speaker Change: Five two vessels one canceled by booking com.
Speaker Change: Compared to 520, 24th quarter, and showing a near maximum fleet utilization of 97, 2%.
Speaker Change: Resulting from the both the larger fleet.
Speaker Change: Fleet utilization and the increased base in say Q revenue contract somewhat mute for life.
Speaker Change: The softer spot market earlier in the year when they have created.
Speaker Change: Turning to fleet generated $197 1 million of these lost revenues and little under.
Harrys Kosmatos: As 10th fleet generated $197.1 million in gross revenues, a little under the $201.5 million in the first quarter of 2024. The average time soldier equivalent received per day that corresponded to this performance was at a feel-healthy $30,741. Voyager's expenses, on the other hand, and in line with Thames' calculated lower exposure and spot rates during the 2025 first quarter, experienced a 6 million decline from last year's first quarter and settled at 36 million. Vessel operating expenses, however, due to the somewhat larger fleet, were $49.6 million compared to $48.6 million in the first quarter of 2024, or $9,502 per seat per day, a level contained thanks to the efficient and proactive management of 10-spectrum monitoring.
Speaker Change: $201 5 million in the first quarter of 2010 before.
Speaker Change: The average time charter equivalent Vascepa day, the corresponding to this performance was up a healthy 30741.
Speaker Change: All of those.
Speaker Change: But the expenses on the other arm and in line with 10 calculated lower exposure in spot rates during the 20th century Fox first quarter experience.
Speaker Change: The decline from last year's first quarter.
Speaker Change: 36 million.
Speaker Change: Vessel operating expenses, however, due to the some of the larger fleet was $49 6 million compared to $48 6 million in the first quarter than before or $9502 per seat per day.
Speaker Change: Leather campaign. Thanks.
Speaker Change: Management I'll spend a second phone monitors.
Harrys Kosmatos: A similar pattern was evident for both depreciation and amortization expenses, which increased from $37.5 million in the first quarter of 2024 to $41 million in the first quarter of 2025, also assisted by the introduction of larger and more... High-Value Outlets. During the first quarter of 2025, a sale of the 2009-built Swiss Max Banker, the Pentathlon, generated capital gains of $3.6 million compared to capital gains of $16.2 million in the first quarter of 2024. Net of these gains can... during the first quarter of 2025, 10 operating income was at 57.1 million compared to 60.1 million in the 2024 first quarter.
Speaker Change: A similar pattern was evident from both depreciation and amortization expenses, which increased from 37 5 million in the first quarter of 'twenty 'twenty four.
Speaker Change: 41 million in the first quarter.
Mike: Mike also.
Mike: In production of larger and more.
Mike: Hi, Bonnie.
Speaker Change: During the first quarter was 275, a sale of a 2009 built suezmax tanker.
Speaker Change: Generated capital gains of $3 6 million compared to tableau, Gainesville, $16 2 million in the first quarter.
Speaker Change: Net of these games.
Speaker Change: During the first quarter influenced by 10 operating income was $57 1 million compared to $60 1 million.
Speaker Change: The first quarter.
Speaker Change: Interest and finance cost declined by $1 1 million to 74 million as a result of lower debt obligations and some with lower interest rates compared to the 2020 full first quarter.
Harrys Kosmatos: Interest and finance costs declined by 1.1 million to 24 million as a result of lower debt obligations and somewhat lower interest rates compared to the 2024 first quarter. Reflecting on the above, a net income of $37.7 million was exported in the first quarter of 2025, leading to an earnings per share of $1.04. Adjusted EBITDA for the first quarter of 2025, a quarter with soft spot rate was of 99.3 million, almost identical to the 100.5 million in last year's strong spot rate first quarter. Total debt was reduced to $1.7 billion, $40.4 million lower from the 2024 first quarter level, while debt to capital also fell to a countable 40.6%.
Speaker Change: Reflecting all yeah bolt and net income of 37.7 universe.
Speaker Change: In the first quarter of two inch by leading to an earnings per share of $1.04.
Speaker Change: Adjusted EBITDA for the first quarter.
Speaker Change: Five a quarter with soft spot rate was at $99 3 million almost identical to the 125 million in last year's strong sports right first quarter.
Speaker Change: Total debt was reduced to one 7 billion 41 4 million lower from the 20th Olympics more first quarter level, while debt to capital fell comfortable 46%.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Harrys Kosmatos: Total funds for the first quarter of 2025 after 27 million in preferred coupons and 238 million of principal payments to banks including payments for financial arrangements were 350 million, 6 million higher from the cash levels at the end of the 2024 first quarter.
Speaker Change: For the first quarter blended 25, after 27 million and 200 million of principal payments to banks.
Speaker Change: And finally four format arrangement.
Speaker Change: 315 million 6 million higher from the top level at the end of this first quarter.
Harrys Kosmatos: And in ending, and reflective of this positive performance, TEN will distribute to common shareholders a first semi-annual dividend of 60 cents per share to shareholders of record on July 14, 2025. And with this, I'll pass it back to Nikolas. Thank you.
Speaker Change: And then Mandy and reflective of an important before.
Speaker Change: When will they be Tacoma shareholders first semi annual dividend of 60 cents per share to shareholders of record on July 20.
Speaker Change: And with this I'll pass it back to Nick Thank you.
Nick: Got it thank you.
Nikolas Tsakos: Harry, thank you for your very to the point and accurate presentation and I think As we said, the beginning of this year has been a very peculiar and turbulent year, starting with restriction of shipping and as we usually say, our aim is, we are the truck drivers of the season, we need open roads and not protection at all. And on top of this, the recent intensified geopolitical turmoil is putting us literally to navigate very turbulent waters, which I think we have been successfully and profitably doing. And looking at the tanker market and the majority of the crude trades, there's huge demand for more business.
Speaker Change: Well you are right to the point and accurate.
Speaker Change: But presentation.
Speaker Change: And I think.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: As we said it has been at the beginning of this year.
Speaker Change: It has been a very peculiar and tear ballooned here, starting with Rex restriction of shipping and as we usually say Oh, well aim is oh well the truck drivers over the season, we need open we'll open roads and not too protection in adults.
Speaker Change: And on top of this the recent Intel.
Speaker Change: Intensified geopolitical turmoil.
Speaker Change: Is putting.
Speaker Change: It's putting us literally to navigate very turbulent waters, which I think we have been successfully in Proteus pros perfectly ratably doing and looking on that.
Speaker Change: The tanker market and the majority of the crude trades, there's huge demand for tomorrow for more business.
Nikolas Tsakos: As we have said, it has been a very strong year of expansion. This is our largest expansion until our next one. And we're looking to still... grow to segments that we have not grown up yet, for good reasons, like the VLCC and the LNG. The market environment is positive. A lot of demand we have. Our chartering department has to try and keep some ships on the spot market. There's huge demand, even for older ships, as I mentioned the example of our 2003 vessel, which has been continuously chartered with one of the major oil companies since their inception, which is a very good proof for our technical managers for the way they operate the ships and the trust that they are able to share with the oil companies.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: We have said it has been in a very strong year of expansion. This is our largest expansion until the next one.
Speaker Change: And we're looking to steal it.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Growth segments that we have not grown up yet for good reasons like the VLCC and the and the LNG. The market environment is positive a lot of demand we have our chartering department has to try and keep some ships on the spot market with huge demand even for older ships.
Speaker Change: I mentioned, the example of a 2003 vessel, which has been a continuously charter which is one of the major oil companies since their inception, which is a very good proof for our technical managers for the way we operate the ships and the trust that they are able.
Speaker Change: To share with our with the oil companies.
Nikolas Tsakos: So overall, an unsettling period for the world, but something that we keep under control, at least for our side of the business. We have been able to combine, as the chairman earlier said, and I present the growth to protect. on the slides over the years.
Speaker Change: So over the overall AR and am.
Speaker Change: Setting period for the world, but there are.
Speaker Change: Something that we'll keep under control at least for outside of the business, we have been able to combine.
Speaker Change: Terrible and everything you said.
Speaker Change: And I presented a growth figures for personnel.
Speaker Change: Just putting on the on the slides over the years.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Growth in strength over over the classes.
Nikolas Tsakos: Growth and Strength Over the Crisis, Strong Dividend Payments, and Debt Reduction. Thank you.
Speaker Change: The strong dividend payments and a reduction and with this I would like to open the floor. If there are any questions. Please.
Speaker Change: Two to answer.
Speaker Change: Thank you we will now be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad, a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You May press star two to remove your question from the queue for participants using speaker equipment. It may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing.
Unknown Executive: We will now be conducting a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone. The confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star 2 to remove your question.
Unknown Executive: Participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the start One moment, please, while we poll for your question.
Speaker Change: This darkies one moment, please while we poll for your questions.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Our first questions come from the line of Paul Frat with Alliance Global Partners. Please proceed with your questions.
Poe Fratt: Our first questions come from the line of Poe Fratt with Alliance Global Partners. Please proceed with your questions. Hello. Can you just highlight what the second quarter new build cost will be? I'm looking at roughly $130 million. Is that in the ballpark for the second quarter, you know, new build payments? Hello, can you hear me? Yes. Hello, hello.
Speaker Change: Hello can.
Paul Frat: Can you just highlight what the second quarter Newbuild cost will be I'm looking at roughly 130 million is that in the ballpark for the second quarter, you know newbuild payments.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Got it.
Speaker Change: Hello can you hear me.
Speaker Change: Yes.
Speaker Change: Hello.
Speaker Change: So for the second quarter of.
Poe Fratt: So, for the second quarter of 2025, we have one of our DP2s that will be coming into the fleet. This vessel has the oil in courses just under $130 million, and we expect to pay approximately $1.5 million. We also have to pay a second instalment, the second 5% instalment on the nine new buildings, the nine DD2 sub-bunkers of about $67 million. That will make the second 5% payment that we are required to make until the delivery of the vessel. We will not make any other payments on that because we are looking into getting pre-delivery financing on those vessels as well.
Speaker Change: 25.
Speaker Change: One of our DP twos.
Speaker Change: I will will come.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: These parcel hubs.
Speaker Change: The only the only causes but.
Speaker Change: A $113 million and we expect to pay approximately.
Speaker Change: Approximately yes.
Speaker Change: Our remaining mindful about quarter of the bank and the rest has been.
Speaker Change: Through a painfully long commercial commercial mindset.
Speaker Change: We also have to pay.
Speaker Change: In Poland, the second 5% installment on the non new buildings of the nine did suffer some pockets of about 67 million.
Speaker Change: But that will make up.
Speaker Change: The second class in Poland.
Speaker Change: Our required Tonight, I'm, a believer that that vessel will not make any other.
Speaker Change: Because we are getting a pre delivery financing on those vessels.
Speaker Change: Well.
Speaker Change:
Poe Fratt: Also, we expect one of the conventional CMT to be delivered in the next quarter. And again, this has a value somewhere in the mid-80s, and we're looking to raise somewhere between 70-80% financing. We're very close in doing that, and the rest will be paid out of cash. So these are more or less what we have scheduled currently for the next quarter as regards to the new budget. Okay, and just to clarify, so the $67 million on the shuttle tankers will fall into the second quarter? not the rest of the year. So that's a second quarter event, Harry.
Speaker Change: So we expect though one of the fundamentals.
Speaker Change: Let's see it needs to be delivered in the next.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: The quarter and.
Speaker Change: Yeah and again it's.
Speaker Change: It's probably somewhere in the.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: Our 18th and when they come to us when they are going to raise our Assam where between studies like this and find out and say, we're very close to doing that.
Speaker Change: And then the rest would be equity pays out therefore, I'll discuss reserves. So let me start more or less what we have scheduled are probably for the next quarter are asking about.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: Okay, and just to clarify so be it.
Speaker Change: The 67 million on the shuttle tankers will fall into the second quarter.
Speaker Change: Not the rest of the year. So that's a second quarter event Harry's.
Speaker Change: Are they going to schedule for July 4th.
Poe Fratt: They are scheduled for July, for July this year. Okay, so third quarter.
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: Third quarter Okay.
Poe Fratt: And then, when you, you know, Nikolas, you talked about, you know, that you're underrepresented, or you don't have as much exposure to VLCCs, and where we should stay tuned.
Speaker Change: And then when you you know need.
Speaker Change: Because you talked about you know that you're underrepresented, there where you don't have as much exposure to vlccs and where we should stay tuned.
Poe Fratt: My impression is that the bid-ask in the S&P market is still, you know, I guess, could you characterize how the bid-ask is in the S&P market right now, especially for Vs, since you mentioned Vs? We are always looking to build ships against clients' wishes and of course when opportunities arise. I mean, our first aim is to build good quality Korean or Japanese ships and there are not many of them out there. So when we get an opportunity, it's something that we seriously look. As you look at our fleet, we're down to three VLs and I think for a company that will be close to 90 ships in a performance basis, we need to increase these segments in the market and we're looking at opportunities out there.
Speaker Change: My impression is that the bid ask in the S&P market is still.
Speaker Change: You know I guess could you characterize how the bid ask is in the S&P market right now, especially for B since you mentioned bees.
Speaker Change: Oh.
Speaker Change: Well, we are always looking.
Speaker Change: No ships against clients, our wishes center and of course when opportunities arise I mean, our first step is to build good quality Korean or Japanese ships.
Speaker Change: And when they're.
Speaker Change: There are not many of them out there so when we get an opportunity it's something that we seriously look.
Speaker Change: If you look at our fleet, we only went down.
Speaker Change: Yes, and I think.
Speaker Change: For a company that will be close to 90 ships before the.
Speaker Change: And a pro forma basis, we need to increase the segments in the market and we're looking at opportunities are out there we have seen.
Poe Fratt: We have seen and I think we have been able to time a good reduction of the new building prices from top yards and this is what we are looking to take advantage of.
Speaker Change: And I think we have been able to time a good reduction.
Speaker Change: The new building prices from a from a top yards and this is what we're looking to take advantage of.
Speaker Change: Okay, Great and then you did sell in the first quarter you know eight 2009 Suezmax can you just.
Poe Fratt: Okay, great. And then you did sell in the first quarter, you know, a 2009 Suez Max. Can you just sort of help me understand sort of your fleet, you know, strategy as far as are you going to continue to sell older assets as you see decent bids out there? Or, you know, is your fleet going to stay roughly, you know, flat with the new builds increasing the fleet over time? I mean, we are always taking advantage of the S&P market in renewing the fleet. I think we are looking to sell at least half a dozen ships from now to the end of the year.
Speaker Change: Sort of help me understand sort of your fleet.
Speaker Change: Strategy as far as are you going to continue to sell older assets as you see decent bids out there or you know what's your fleet can stay roughly.
Speaker Change: Flat with the new builds increasing the fleet over time.
Speaker Change: No I mean, we are always we are always taking advantage of the S&P market.
Speaker Change: And definitely I think we are looking to to sell at least half a dozen ships from now till the end of the year, we are very close and three or four transactions that might take place.
Poe Fratt: We are very close in three or four transactions that might take place before the fourth quarter, which will release close to 100 million of net cash flow. And of course, it will enhance our ability to pay dividends, reduce debt, and at the same time would not affect our strong cash balances when we grow the business for further expansion.
Speaker Change: Before before the fourth quarter of which all are at least close to 100 million Oh for net cash flow.
Speaker Change: And of course, it would love.
Speaker Change: And our ability to pay dividend and reduce debt and at the same time would not affect our strong cash balances.
Speaker Change: So when we grow the business for further expansion.
Speaker Change: Okay, and then I know, it's probably hard at this point in time can you give us an outlook for the turbine in the second second half dividend that you typically pay in December.
Poe Fratt: Okay, and I know it's probably hard at this point in time, can you give us an outlook for the dividend, the second half dividend that you typically pay in December? Well, I mean, I cannot because this is taking, our strategy meeting is taking place every October in Greece and that's when people sit under the sun and decide having some wine on the dividend. But joking apart, we hope to have at least a similar dividend to the first half, to say the least.
Speaker Change: Well.
Speaker Change: I mean I cannot because this has taken a strategy meeting is taking place every October ingredient, that's when people to sit under a sudden decided are.
Speaker Change: Having someone on the dividend, but joking apart.
Speaker Change: We hope to have a at least a similar deal with them through their first tougher to say the place.
Speaker Change: Great. That's helpful. And then you did highlight that you know your your N. A b. It's you think it's north of $60. The stocks you know little bit under 20.
Speaker Change: 35%.
Speaker Change: Its trading at 35% and a b is there anything that you think that you should do to help close that gap or should we just you know I guess just is there anything that you.
Poe Fratt: corporate actions wise you can take to help close that gap. Well, I think I think what we have to do is to try as the chairman, I think the chairman perhaps he can arrange. At the end of this he can give us again the same presentation is to present the difference of TEN which has an industrial model proven for 30 years than the other shipping companies that go, are more fluctuating. I mean this is, we still have, we still have a small flow. the free flow, so I think we are looking for various solutions. One of them would be, and we've been discussing going forward, some sort of spin-off of the LNG and shuttle tanker fleet that has a huge cash flow for the next, with an average of 12 and a half years, that of course that would be able to help also the mother company.
Speaker Change: Corporate action twice, you can take to help close that gap.
Speaker Change: Well I think I think what we would have to do is to try as the chairman and I think the chairman and perhaps you can arrange that.
Speaker Change: But at the end of the overseas. So he can give us again the same presentation is to present.
Speaker Change: Presented a difference of 10, which has an industrial model proven for 50 years when the other shipping companies that Oh go more fluctuating I mean this is a we still have we still have a small floor.
Speaker Change: Oh for sure so excluding the energy you know.
Speaker Change: The management and the family so if someone who's there to do a buyback it would be a completely.
Speaker Change: Dilutive in more detail.
Speaker Change: Free flow. So I think we are looking for our values.
Speaker Change: So not areas, where people will understand the value of the company one of them would be.
Speaker Change: We've been discussing that going forward or some sort of a spinoff of the of the LNG and shuttle tanker fleets that has a huge.
Speaker Change: A huge cash flow for the next with an average of two and a half years, but of course that would you be able to sell parts for the mother company, but these are discussions we're having we don't have to do anything for the next couple of years. The company has a lot of liquidity, there's no need to raise to raise capital at just a yeah.
Poe Fratt: But these are still discussions we're internally having. We don't have to do anything for the next couple of years. The company has a lot of liquidity, does not need to raise capital. It just needs to become, to make the point more evident.
Speaker Change: It means to become a to make the point more evident.
Speaker Change: That's an interesting concept. Thank you so much.
Poe Fratt: That's an interesting concept.
Poe Fratt: Thank you so much. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you as a reminder, if you would like to ask a question. Please press star one on your telephone keypad.
Unknown Executive: As a reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad.
Speaker Change: Yeah.
Speaker Change: I'm not showing any further questions at this time I would like to hand, the call back over to Mr. Nikolas Tsakos for any closing remarks.
Unknown Executive: I'm not showing any further questions at this time.
Nikolas Tsakos: I would now like to hand the call back over to Mr. Nikolas Tsakos for any closing... Well, I think you guys have heard too much from my side. It has been an exciting first six months and hopefully we can make the remaining of the year exciting.
Speaker Change: Well I think you guys have heard too.
Speaker Change: Too much from my side.
Speaker Change: It has been an exciting the first six months and hopefully we can make the remaining of the year exciting what we wish for everybody to have a peaceful summer, although it doesn't look very likely but.
Nikolas Tsakos: We wish for everybody to have a peaceful summer, although it doesn't look very likely, but we hope everybody will be able to make sense of what's happening and have a much more peaceful environment that we operate in right now.
Speaker Change: We hope everybody will be able to make sense of what's happening in the <unk> and have a much more peaceful environment that we operate in right now and with that I will ask Oh chairman.
Takis Aripaglou: And with that, I will ask our chairman, Mr. Takis Sarapoglou, to close up our presentation. Thank you. Thank you, Nikolas. On the question of closing the gap on the price to NAV and, you know, the The mention of a buyback, I would rather pay people to stay through dividends than pay them to leave. So I think that, I think that, that I hope. Investors will understand the value of the stock and treat it differently to your usual other shipping assets in the market, which behave and trade in a different way. We provide an almost stable stream of income going forward, which is not a one-off, it's being rolled.
Speaker Change: Two.
Mr. Tankers: Mr tankers that up a little.
Mr. Tankers: Clothes, Oh presentation. Thank you.
Speaker Change: Thank you. Thank you and then close on the question of closing the gap.
Speaker Change: On on on the price to earn a Z.
Speaker Change: And you know this.
Speaker Change: The dimension of a buyback.
Speaker Change: I would rather pay people to stay through dividends and pay them to leave so I I think that.
Speaker Change: I think that that.
Speaker Change: I hope.
Speaker Change: Investors will understand the value of the stock and treated differently to your.
Speaker Change: Usual other shipping assets.
Speaker Change: In the market.
Speaker Change: Which behave and trades at a different way.
Speaker Change: We provide a you know and almost stable stream of income going forward, which is not the one offs it's been enrolled.
Speaker Change: After a year with additional transactions.
Takis Aripaglou: and this provides a different environment in which we operate. and I hope that investors will understand the distinction.
Speaker Change: And this provides a.
Speaker Change: Different environments in which we operate.
Speaker Change: And I hope that investors will.
Speaker Change: Understand the distinction.
Speaker Change: Oh.
Speaker Change: That's it for me for now.
Takis Aripaglou: That's it from me for now. Thank you, Chairman.
Speaker Change: Thank you chairman.
Nikolas Tsakos: Well, I think just again, not to, and this is more for for the analysts, I think our type of operation, which is much, much more industrial, and it has a proven record of 32 consecutive years of dividend and growth, is not, should not be measured on net asset value. I think net asset value is completely for companies that have no operation. I mean, we have $3.7 billion with an average of 12 and a half years of forward income, fixed at the minimum. To make everybody feel very, very young, we have 180 years of fixed employment for all our ships, which means I think even our great-grandchildren might be there to receive some of the dividends at the end of the period.
Speaker Change: I think just again not to and this is more for the analysts I think.
Speaker Change: Our type of Oh preparation, which is much much more industrial.
Speaker Change: And it has a proven record of 32 countries.
Speaker Change: So two years of dividend growth.
Speaker Change: It is not there should not be measured on net asset value I think net net I see its value is it completely.
Speaker Change: The four companies that have no operation I mean, we have three boys 7 billion.
Speaker Change: No.
Speaker Change: With an average of 12 and a half years of forward.
Speaker Change: For one thing fixed.
Speaker Change:
Speaker Change: To make it to make everybody feel very very young we have a hungry to make these years off.
Speaker Change: Fixed employment for all our ships.
Speaker Change: Which I think are even our great grandchildren might be there to receive some of the the dividend again at the end of the period.
Speaker Change: Sure the model of net asset value, which actually takes a sip of that might be empty.
Speaker Change: Sitting in the middle of the Ocean with no cargo and give me the same value with a sympathizer 15 or 10 year. It's it's it's a wrong or at least it's not representative of what we do I think we should be looking to be measured on EBITDA multiples like or are being marketed right now if we look I mean.
Speaker Change: Two or three times EBITDA market, because one of the most have been measured and Thats eight times EBITDA.
Nikolas Tsakos: And that's what we're going to try and make better through the spinoff. And that's the only reason we might be doing a spinoff is to prove the point. It's not because the company is actually putting aside close to $500,000 of tax on a daily basis. After all, our expenses. So the last thing we need is to raise equity, pay dividend, grow and reduce debt. And again, with that thought, I would like to let our analysts think a bit and perhaps start measuring companies like ours a bit on that measure rather than net asset value.
Speaker Change: And that's what we're going to try and make better through the spin off.
Speaker Change: And that's the only reason we might be doing a spin off is to prove the.
Speaker Change: The point, it's not because the gold companies actually you're putting aside close to 500 million.
Speaker Change: With us on a daily basis after rollout expenses. So the last thing we need to raise it to today's equity trade.
Speaker Change: Pay dividend grow and and reduce debt and again with that I would like Scott I would like to let all of us think a bit and perhaps start measuring companies like ours, a bit on that measure rather than them.
Speaker Change: And and cornerstone Nicholas.
Speaker Change: If I may if I may interrupt Nicholas.
Unknown Executive: If I may, if I may interrupt, Nikos.
Nicholas: Yes. Please.
Unknown Executive: Yes, please. Sorry.
Speaker Change: And also if you look at it.
Takis Aripaglou: And also if you look at, if you take last year's dividend and perhaps we will not be that far this year at the present level of our stock price, we're talking about an 8-9% dividend yield, which is not something that you find in the sector often. And this is the proof of the model, really, if you look at it. So they're relatively, you know, limited payouts. So I think what Nikos says is correct.
Speaker Change: If you take last year's dividend.
Speaker Change: Perhaps we will not be that far.
Speaker Change: Uh huh.
Speaker Change: At the present level of our stock price, we're talking about an eight 9% dividend yield which is.
Speaker Change: Not something that you find in the sector.
Speaker Change: Oh awesome so.
Speaker Change: And this this is the problem.
Speaker Change: Okay. The reason if you look at it.
Speaker Change: So they're relatively.
Speaker Change: Limited stay out so.
Speaker Change: I think what nickel says is correct.
Takis Aripaglou: Net Asset Value is a very static model, we don't run a static business.
Speaker Change: Net asset value is a very static model, we don't run a staffing business.
Speaker Change: And.
Speaker Change: EBITDA is the best indicator of the performance of the fleet. Thank you.
Takis Aripaglou: Ibiza is the best indicator of the performance of the fleet.
Unknown Executive: Thank you.
Speaker Change: <unk>.
Speaker Change: Thank you and all the best for the remaining of the year. Our team is is in New York I know you guys are having a.
Unknown Executive: Thank you and all the best for the remaining of the year. Our team is in New York. I know you guys are having a very nice lunch. I presume, I hope, at a Greek restaurant sitting outdoors very, very soon. Send us some pictures and a doggy bag for us. Thank you. Take care. Bye-bye. Thank you, everyone. Thank you. Bye-bye.
Speaker Change: Very nice Lance I presume I hope.
Speaker Change: The Greek restaurant sitting outdoors.
Speaker Change: Very very assuring centers some picture.
Speaker Change: A dog eat dog you buy it for us Thank you.
Speaker Change: Take care Bye bye.
Speaker Change: Thank you bye bye bye bye.
Speaker Change: This does conclude today's teleconference. We appreciate your participation you may disconnect. Your lines at this time enjoy the rest of the day.
Speaker Change: [music].
Speaker Change: Okay.
Speaker Change: [music].