Q2 2025 Horace Mann Educators Corp Earnings Call

Good morning and welcome to the Horace Mann Educators Q2 2025 results conference call.

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I would now like to turn the conference over to Brandon DeWalt Vise, president investor relations. Please go ahead.

Thank you, welcome to Horus. Man's discussion of our second quarter, 2025 results.

Yesterday, we issued our earnings release 10 Q, investor supplement, and investor presentation copies are available on the investors page on our website.

Marita zorritas, president and chief executive officer and Ryan Grenier, Executive, Vice, President, and Chief Financial Officer will give the formal remarks on today's call. We also have Steve magana Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer with us for Q&A.

Before turning it over to Marita. I want to note that our presentation today includes forward-looking statements as defined in the private Securities. Litigation Reform, Act of 1995.

The company cautions investors that any forward-looking statements include risks and uncertainties and are not guarantees of future performance.

These forward-looking statements are based on Management's, current expectations, and we assume no obligation to update them.

Actual results May differ materially due to a variety of factors which are described in our news release and SEC filings.

In our prepared remarks, we use some non-gaap measures.

Reconciliations of these measures to the most comparable, gaap measures are available in our investors supplement.

I'll now turn the call over to Morita.

Thanks, Brendan and good morning everyone. Yesterday. Horseman reported second quarter quarter earnings per share of a dollar 6.

A nearly 3-fold increase over prior year.

Net premiums and contract charges earned were up, 8% with total revenues up 6%. These results reflect continued, strong business profitability, and solid growth, momentum across the business.

Casualty catastrophe losses that were meaningfully below prior year and recent prior periods.

For return on equity, for the quarter was 11.3%, bringing our trailing 12-month core return on Equity to 12.6%.

Taking the strong results. Through the first half of the year into consideration. We are increasing our full year 20125. Core EPS guidance.

To arrange a $0.15.

To 445 Ryan will provide more color on the full guidance assumptions. Later in the call.

Today I want to highlight some key takeaways from our very strong second quarter as well as revisit the long-term strategic Outlook we introduced at our recent investor day.

Overall we had an excellent second quarter, our businesses are all at or near profitability targets which provide the foundation for driving sustained profitable growth.

Let me break it down by segments in Property and Casualty. We reported a combined ratio of 97%, a nearly 15-point improvement over the prior year.

Core earnings were 17 million a 25 million improvement from the segment loss pre-recorded a year ago.

We are seeing the benefit of non-right underwriting actions taken to reduce property volatility.

These measures, including roof settlement schedules, continue to earn in as expected.

In addition, we recorded favorable prior year development in both property and Auto in the second quarter catastrophe losses. Contributed 15 points to the combined ratio in 8 point improvement, over the prior year.

While PCS recorded 20 storm, catastrophe events, this quarter our results reflect lower catastrophe, losses driven by lower frequency and lower severity of policy holder claims.

in the life and retirement segment core earnings were doubled last year's results on the strength of higher net investment income returns limited partnership and commercial mortgage loan, fund returns outpaced last year's results and for the 14th consecutive quarter new money yields in the core portfolio, exceeded book yield

In addition, we recorded lower mortality cost compared to the second quarter 2024.

On a year-to-date basis, mortality costs remain within our expected actuarial range.

In the individual supplemental and group benefits segment, policyholder utilization continues to be favorable.

Our results demonstrate that we are successfully delivering on profitability commitments while strategically investing in the business to capture long-term growth opportunities. We are on track to achieve our 2025 goals of record annual core earnings and a sustained double-digit shareholder return on equity.

At our recent investor day we outlined. What's next for Horseman?

We have 2, clear, strategic financial goals. We are focused on a 10%, average, compound, annual growth rate in core EPs and a sustained 12 to 13% core return on Equity by 2028.

Now is the time for us to scale our profitable businesses.

Or accomplishing this through Salesforce growth. Leveraging cutting-edge marketing tools and investing in successful, value-added brand awareness.

And lead generation programs.

We are realizing steady mid single-digit growth in net points of distribution, which is encompasses. Our exclusive agency, force, and licensed producers. That support them in, both their agencies, and our call center,

Our agency force in particular is motivated by the improvements and Investments. We have made to the agent experience. Our agent. Net promoter, score continues to improve and is top quartile among industry peers.

1 of the Investments. We have talked about before is catalyst. Our homegrown technology solution that enhances agent interactions with Educators and allows us to engage with more Educators at the right time to better convert prospects into customers.

At Horseman, we build marketing and support programs around the issues in the educator space every day, and we provide solutions.

And educators.

A few examples.

In a spring survey about 86% of Educators. Once again, told Horsemen that they spend their own money on supplies for their classrooms,

We help Educators find solutions to this financial issue in several ways, including hosting educational workshops on how to maximize classroom crowdfunding success and funding projects through a donor's choose National sponsorship.

This month, we are partnering with Lakeshore Learning in educational furniture and materials retailer to stock dozens of classrooms across the country. For the new school year, including 1, twenty 5,000 classroom makeover,

We also recently announced a strategic partnership with Crayola a trusted brand known for its dedication to education.

Together, we are expanding access to creative and impactful resources for educators and students Nationwide through programs like Crayola creativity week.

This January celebration includes virtual educational events.

Creativity speakers teaching resources and prizes to help Educators care for themselves and their students. It reaches more than 800,000 Educators and 13 million students annually.

We are seeing traction from our increased focus on partnerships and lead generation programs. Website traffic in the second quarter increased 75% over the prior year.

We've thoughtfully built capabilities and programs within our integrated Omni Channel approach to customer, acquisition and service.

This ensures Educators can engage with Horsemen in the way that they choose through a local agent digital channels or our call center and can seamlessly flow between channels when they need more or less guidance.

And we're seeing results. Auto sales are up 10% year to date at our current sales pace. And as a retention stabilizes and returns to a more typical level, we expect risks in force to level out and begin to grow. In fact, we are seeing deceleration in the decline of risks and force with the second quarter down less than 1% compared to the first quarter.

Notably individual supplemental achieved another record-breaking quarter, second quarter sales of 6 million, increased 43% over the prior year on a year-to-date basis sales were up over 50%. We are clearly growing this business, which as planned is an important contributor to our higher, Roe targets.

The so what for investors is that Horus man is a company with a clear and compelling strategy to drive sustained profitable growth, and accelerate shareholder value creation.

In addition to our plans for profitable growth, the most accurate of use of capital, we maintain a strong dividend payout ratio and continue to execute on share repurchase program.

In May the board authorized an additional 50 million of share repurchase.

We have returned 13 million of capital to shareholders, and share repurchases through July year to date.

To close, this is an exciting time for Horseman. We are reaching more educators than ever before with a compelling value proposition.

On a year-to-date basis. We are exceeding our 2025 goals of record, annual core earnings and a sustained Roe above, 10% beyond that. We have the products distribution and infrastructure in place to deliver on our vision, to be the leading financial services. Provider for educators in the years to come

We are operating from a position of strength. We have a strong competitive advantage, and we have confidence in delivering sustained marketing growth over the next three years. We will serve more educators, build scale, and accelerate shareholder returns. Thank you. I'll now turn the call over to Ryan.

Thanks Marita second, quarter results, reflect strong, underlying performance across the business, and Property and Casualty catastrophe losses, that were below, prior year and our historical averages.

We continue to observe, encouraging signs of sustained growth momentum and clearly see the earnings power of our multi-line business when operating at Target profitability.

2025 core EPS, guidance to arrange of $4.15 to $445.

Our 2025 guidance assumptions remain the same roughly 90 million of catastrophe losses assumed for the full year in line with our 5-year historical average.

Despite the favorable second quarter cat results, we have had significant hurricanes in the second half of the year and 3 of the past 5 years.

As such, we believe it is prudent to continue to use our 5-year average when providing cat loss guidance.

Total, net investment income in the range of 470 to 480 million with managed portfolio, income of 370 to 380 million.

And interest expense in other corporate items of 35 to 40 million.

Turning now to the results.

Core earnings of 44 million or a $16 per share was nearly 3 times the prior year result.

Trailing 12-month core return on equity was 12.6%, reflecting continued strong underlying profitability across the business.

Total net premiums and contract charges earned were up 8% with total revenues up 6%.

In the Property and Casualty segment, core earnings were 17 million a 25 million improvement over the segment loss reported in the prior year period.

Net written premiums of 211 million, increased 6% over the prior year primarily on higher average written premiums.

The PNC reported combined ratio of 97 and proved 14.5 points over prior year reflecting improved, underlying results, lower catastrophe costs, and favorable prior year development,

The 5.5 million in Prior year development included 4 million in property and 1.5 million in Auto liability driven by favorable severity.

Pre-tax catastrophe. Losses of 30 million were 11 million below the prior year period and below our historic averages due to lower claim, frequency and severity

In Auto, net written premiums of $127 million increased 4% over the prior year.

The underlying combined ratio of 96.5 and proved 3.8 points. Primarily due to higher average premiums

Household retention remains strong at nearly 84% and is in line with expectations, given the rate actions we've taken. It continues to be in the top quartile relative to industry benchmarks.

In property, net written premiums of 84 million increased 10% over the prior year.

The underlying combined ratio of 65.1, improved to 12.4 points reflecting higher, average premiums and favorable, frequency and severity.

Lower catastrophe. Costs contributed to 24 points to the year-over-year, combined ratio Improvement.

Policy holder retention remains strong at 89%.

In life and retirement core earnings of 25 million were a 2-fold Improvement compared to the prior year. Primarily driven by a higher net investment income and lower mortality costs.

Year to date. Mortality remains within our expected Actuarial range.

Net written premiums and contract deposits of $142 million increased 6% over the prior year.

In the Life business, persistency remains strong at 96%.

In the retirement business net. Annuity contract, deposits increased by 8% and persistency Rose to nearly 92%.

Year-to-date deposits into our core 403b products remain. Strong, moving to individual, supplemental and group benefits. The segment contributed 13 million to core earnings.

Net written premiums of 66 million, increased 3% over the prior year an individual supplemental, net written premiums of 31 million increased 4% over. The prior year, the benefit ratio of 27.7 was in line with prior year. And we continue to see favorable policy holder utilization Trends relative to our long-term expectations

We are clearly seeing returns from our strategic investments. In this business, to drive profitable growth, with record sales of 6 million in the quarter, 43% increase over the prior year.

Policy holder persistency remains steady near 90%.

in group benefits net written premiums of 35 million increased 3% over prior year

As a reminder, the current scale of this business is relatively small and does not significantly impact Consolidated results.

We continue to see some variability in quarterly sales, which is typical for the group business.

Given the longer sales, cycle of the business, we have a clear view of sales in the second half of the year.

In fact, July was a record sales month for group.

As a result, we are expecting third quarter sales to put us ahead of the prior year.

Turning to Investments.

We continue to see very strong results from our core fixed income portfolio reflecting the benefit of higher average yields.

As Marita mentioned, this is the 14th consecutive quarter that new money yields in the core portfolio have exceeded book. Yield

we anticipate that this trend will continue given the average portfolio duration of 7 years,

Annualized limited partnership returns for 10% driven, primarily by private equity and infrastructure related funds and commercial mortgage loan. Fund returns were 7% significantly improved over the prior year.

Turning to Capital Management.

As we reiterated at our recent investor day, we remain focused on driving shareholder value creation.

Our dividend yield remain strong and we continue to actively execute on our share buyback program.

We have taken advantage of recent market conditions with year-to-date repurchases of over, 325,000 shares at a total cost of 13 million and at an average price of $0.54 through July month end.

Including the additional $50 million authorized by the board in May, we have about $63 million remaining on our current share repurchase authorization.

In conclusion. Second quarter results, highlight our ability to deliver strong results, while laying the groundwork for long-term sustained profitable growth. We remain on Pace to deliver record, annual core earnings in 2025, a shareholder return on Equity above 10% and free cash, flow generation above 75%. We are confident in our ability to deliver on our longer term financial goals and we remain firmly focused on accelerating shareholder value creation. Thank you, operator. We are ready for questions.

We will now begin the question and answer session to ask a question. You may press star then 1 on your telephone keypad,

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Our first question comes from Mike Sarah meschke with BMO. Please go ahead.

Hey, great. Thanks. Good morning. Um,

to be focusing first on the um, PNC segment. Um, a lot of, uh, helpful commentary. The prepared remarks. I heard some commentary about lower frequency, uh, and severity. Um, just kind of thinking out, um, I know that, you know, in terms of the cat load, obviously there's plenty of the year left. Um, um, given we're in Hurricane Season, Etc. Um, and I, and maybe it's the early days, I'm kind of some of the terms and conditions changes you've made to to, to some of the policies such as the higher deductibles, but I guess just, um, longer term, uh, or maybe if you're seeing data now, you know, could there be the potential for, um, your cat load guidance, which I think you use a 5 year average, um, to be, uh, a bit different or, or lower or, or is that not?

Not the right way to think about things.

Hey Mike, it's Marita. Thanks for your question. Before we tackle the question and there was a lot in there to unpack, I want to thank you for initiating coverage and your thoughtful note. It's great having you on board. So thanks for that. I'm going to turn it over to Ryan to unpack the cat question because I think that's a a great question and then we'll answer the other pieces in there. Sure. Okay. So I guess I'll just say real quickly and maybe cat isn't even the right way to think about it. Um it might might be just loss ratio non-cap too so sorry to interject.

Sure. Um, why don't I why don't I start on packing? Just to be clear that philosophically focused understand kind of how we approach guidance. You know, when we looked at this, um, we looked at uh, our first half outperformance and and, you know, we clearly saw favorable PNC, underlying results.

Individual supplemental, benefit utilization, favorable and we adjusted, you know, for the outperformance, we saw on a year-to-date basis, you know, second quarter is typically our highest catastrophe quarter our, our experience this year was favorable compared to recent years. Um, but you know, the third quarter like many carriers is our most volatile quarter. You know, I mentioned in the script 3 of Our Last 5 Years had, uh, you know, hurricanes those were 15 million plus events for us. Um, and so, when I think about our approach to cat guidance, you know, we can't predict the timing of weather events, um, but we can look to, you know, historical averages and we exposure weight that 5 year average, it's 90 million on a full year basis. And, you know, we'll see how that how that plays out that has been our historic approach. Um, you know, it's too soon to talk about what we'll do for 26. But that has been, you know, how we've thought about cat guidance. Yeah, and when you think about cats, the only thing you know is your

Probably going to be wrong. Um, you know, wise people around here have told me we can't predict weather, but we certainly can model it, and our modeling clearly shows us that that number is about the right number for us. Over the long run, you know, as Ryan mentioned, three of the last five years.

We saw saw more volatility in the third quarter than we saw in the second quarter. I think, if you look to Industry whether activity in the beginning of July, it was clearly there. I mean we've seen a ton of water, whether it's flooding, whether it's rain, whether it's other cat catastrophe activity in July. Um, we certainly saw some of that as well. Nothing outside for us in July, but it is an indication that, you know, July can also have cat activity industrywide, um, that combined with the volatility that we do see in recenty in the third quarter. Our math shows us that it makes sense to keep that number where it is and not change it and include that. In the guidance, obviously after the third quarter is done, we'll revisit that but it doesn't make any sense for us to not continue to follow the math as we always have.

The second part of your question, um, is the underlying, and we feel really good from an underlying perspective year-over-year development, especially with respect to catastrophe losses (cats). Where we sit in the business, we feel like the work we've done with rate and our underwriting efforts have put us maybe even a little bit ahead of where we would expect to be. Um, the third part of your question, when you talk about property volatility and the things that we've put in.

In place to level off, that property volatility in the long, long term are clearly working. The way we had hoped that they would work, whether that is introducing roof, schedules higher, deductibles the work we're doing, in water claim management. You know, the odd thing is a typical second quarter. You would have more claims so that you could actually see the actual benefit of those things. Come through, the good news is not as many claims to see it, um but we feel really good that we are on track with the plans that we've put in place to improve the underlying performance of the business. And we will continue to um, plan for cats around, what the math tells us. I hope that answers.

Your great question.

No. Yeah, that that was a comprehensive. Um, I'll, um, I'll, I'll make my follow-up. I'll stick to the PNC segment, um, you know, high level, you know, when we think about, um,

Growth, um, in auto and home. But especially Auto it. It looks like you, you, um, the retention ratio, probably needs to pick up, um, a bit. Now that's too simplistic, but, um, um, we're kind of where are we in, in the in, in, in the, the I guess the cycle in terms of pricing and in terms of conditions changes. Um, and, you know, do you expect um, to start seeing um, some

Additional kind of, uh, improvement or acceleration eventually.

In in, um, policy Congress specifically um, over the coming quarters or or or a year.

We're all talking about it but we are an educator, and, and others who serve the community, but we are an educator carrier. We're a household carrier, we're not a monoline auto carrier, we bundle auto and home. We're able to add life and retirement and supplemental group benefits offering to that total account perspective. Our strategies never been about being the cheapest price. It's about being a fair price over the life cycle. And that's why we don't talk about Now's the Time to growth its growth on its growth off. We don't think about it as a faucet. We think about it as sustained profitable growth over the life cycle. And I think the important thing is the things that we've done over the the last several years, building, the products that are relevant in our space, and we have them. If we believe that, it's not the right time for us to write the auto, and beyond that auto portion of the account, we have,

Great relationships Through The Horseman General agency. When it's appropriate for us to place that with potentially a model Line, Auto carrier that, you know, has the right price or the right appetite or the right scale in that particular geography. And that lever has worked very well for us. We also have a lot of work that we've done in modernizing our infrastructure, that allow Educators to engage with us easier and more modernized as we built that out.

Steve can talk a little bit about the work we've done in marketing and distribution to support that sustained profitable growth. But I feel like we've done what we need to do to meet the objectives that we laid out very clearly at investor day. Steve,

Yeah, so Mike. Good question. And I think I'll, I'll pull back and um, and just sort of point you to the investor supplement. And first thing you can see is for auto because that was your question. You can definitely see that if is stabilizing. And I think Marita called this out in, uh, in her remarks. Um, almost flat quarter over quarter and that sort gives us a a pretty good degree of confidence, um, that it's going to stabilize and turn positive in the next handful of quarters. So that's sort of my direct response to what do we see with pif? If I unpack things and and divide, uh, divide results into 2 buckets? Um, retention you can also see the same thing. You see it, stabilizing.

And so, um, keep in mind retention did decline um, a handful of points. Uh, after 3 years of taking, uh, roughly 40% in rate. Um, so we took, we have to be pumped 40% of auto rates through the system. Retention held pretty steady, did decline a little bit, um, but our expectation, um, is that the rate is um moderating. Um, we're going to take rate commensurate more with loss trends.

And so our expectation is retention is going to flatten. It'll start to uptick uh over the next handful of quarters. Marina mentioned, new business, and sales momentum. So the second piece here, um, around pif is how are we doing on the new business side? And we talked a lot about this at investor day, but there's really 3, broad things. We're doing the first is we're driving more leads. And again, I think Marita did a great job of commenting on the front uh and you see that in 1 of our metrics which is website activity, I think it was up over 75%. Um, so leads is 1. The second is points of distribution. We are growing our points of distribution across the board and then the last is increased productivity. Um, and that would sort of cover things like Marina reference Catalyst, which is really a lead management system that allows agents to sort of handle their leads more effectively and efficiently and increase the likelihood for sale. So I think um, as new business continues to rise and retention stabilizes, uh, we have a high degree

of confidence that we're going to deliver first, uh, piss stability. And then pif growth.

Excellent, thank you.

Our next question comes from John barnidge with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.

Good morning. Thank you for the opportunity. I appreciate it. My question is on the group benefits business. I know there's Susan Ally. Could you maybe talk about the volume you saw on individual supplement group benefits?

How accurate the company has been in RFP activity.

I appreciate the comments you made about your expectations for the year, but curious about the quarter. Thanks

John, good to hear from you. Um, and so I'll unpack.

Um, both segments and I'll start with individual supplemental.

On this as well, and asked if if it was driven by any 1 new account or or case and the answer is no. Um, uh, it's already driven by 2 factors. We have more people selling and the people that are selling, we see their productivity going up, and we're really pleased with that. I'll also remind you q1 of 24 was kind of deflated, we had some weather issues preventing us from getting into schools and so when you compare some of the numbers year-over-year, they could be a little distorted because Q because early part of 24 was deflated. I think as we go forward. Um and look at individual supplemental right now. If you look at the supplement

We're writing about 5 million and change per quarter and we probably expect that to continue for the certainly, for the rest of the year. So, we feel pretty good about where individuals supplemental is and we sort of as we look to the Horizon we we expect sustained profitable growth. As Marita said, the group 1 is is very different and I think Ryan did a nice job of covering this up front, just just for context group, is a relatively small book for us. Um, the case sizes can vary from a few hundred thousand to over a million and so, uh, you have lumpiness in there and then the sales cycle is very long, um, but given that, that sales cycle is long, it gives us a clear view as to what's coming. And I think Ryan referenced this earlier, um, we feel really good about the forecast, and what we, what we're looking at for new business, sales and group for the remainder of the year,

Here, um, July is an excellent proof point, so we already know what the sales numbers are. Um, it's sort of, if we look at July year to date, uh, 25 versus July year to date 24, we are exceeding, uh, 24 growth levels. And so we feel really, really good, um, about what's happening. There you brought up rfps, um, we we have a fair amount of quote activity, um, in the marketplace, and so that's just ongoing. So we feel we feel good about the group. Um, uh, Q2 was, uh, a little quiet for us, but we knew the Q3 and, and likely Q4 are going to be pretty good for us.

Steve, thanks for unpacking those details, you didn't, you did a nice job there. I, I think it's also important to think about the strategy here. Um, you know, the earnings diversification that both the NTA and mnl acquisition have done for horse mane, I think is clear. Um, think about NTA and the individual supplemental business of worst man. Now producing, you know, new business at a 43% in the quarter and a nice ongoing clip and feel really good about the sustained profitable growth there, um, mnl was a couple of years later, um, feel as Steve said, very strongly about, um, that business, uh, longer sales cycle, really nice view as Steve said into the future and the rest of this year. Um, but I think it also makes sense for that to take a little bit longer, um, to get that.

Ongoing, um, kind of cadence that we now see with the individual supplemental business. And it's clear. And you see that in the numbers, we are investing in what we need from a long-term sustainable growth perspective in both individual supplemental and clearly, and clearly groups. So I think we unpacked what you needed there.

Thank you both very much. And then, my follow-up question.

BNC sales were nice in the quarter. It sounds like you're out looking for PIF, which is improved. Is it from the core customer, the educator customer, or are we starting to see the signs of deferred being born from the Investor Day? A new channel? Thank you.

Yeah, I mean, I think we've talked about new channels very clearly and the thoughtful approach that we're taking to concentric growth, circles, natural adjacencies. Um, and that work is way too new to be in the numbers in a meaningful way. We are still close to that 80% educator number that we have been. It moves a little bit by a point or 2 here and there, but it is still the Lion's Share of our business and quite frankly for a long time, we'll continue to be. I I wanted to be really thoughtful and I think we were at investor day to make sure we unpack.

The amount of opportunity we have within the educator space Not Just public K through 12, but higher education homeschooling uh trade schools. A lot of the work that we're doing outside of the public K through 12 is still

Are going to move those percentages greatly in the near term because a lot of the work that we're doing is still in that tangential, educator space.

Thank you.

Thanks John.

Leave a follow-up question from Mike zeromski with BML. Please go ahead.

Oh great. Thanks. Um, just, um, given there was a little bit of noise in the uh, investment uh, uh portfolio. This quarter with a true up. Um, I don't I don't I don't see a lot of transcript, but did you, uh, give the the new money yield? I think you said it was exceeded the book yield, but I don't know if you you, you'd wanted to share any kind of quantification of approximately what the new money yields were, or the kind of the the book yield. That's the true up.

Sure, sure Mike. Um, no, you didn't miss it. Um, and yeah, it's a good result. So, I'm glad you asked the question. Um, 579 for the core fixed, uh, maturity portfolio for the quarter, um, another encouraging bright spot when I look at net investment income. Um, on a go forward basis. This is the first quarter where where the accounting yield the equity method of accounting yield, uh, which is what goes into nii exceeded, the cash return for our commercial mortgage loan funds. Um, simply put we're recovering some of the unrealized noise, um, that we saw come

Through earnings over the last couple of years, as commercial real estate continues to stabilize, so that's an encouraging leading indicator. Um, there's always idiosyncratic risk with CMLS, um, but we're buoyed by that result. LP is also a really strong result. So overall, um, on a trendline basis, if you would just, uh, for the prior period adjustment, uh, the fixed maturity portfolio would have been tracking right in line with prior quarters.

Thank you. Thank you.

This concludes our question-and-answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Ryan Greenier, Chief Financial Officer, for any closing remarks.

Uh, I appreciate everyone joining us on the call this morning, um, you know, feel free to reach out to the investor relations team with any additional questions. Uh, and thank you.

The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect