Q2 2025 Radian Group Inc Earnings Call

Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the second quarter, 2025 radian group conference. Call at this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session to ask a question during the session. You will need to press star 1, 1 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message. Advising your hand is raised to withdraw your question. Please press star 1 1 again.

Dan Kobell: Thank you, and welcome to RADIAN's second quarter 2025 conference call. Our press release, which contains RADIAN's financial results for the quarter, was issued yesterday evening and is posted to the Investor section of our website at radian.com. This press release includes certain non-GAAP measures that may be discussed during today's call, including adjusted pre-tax operating income, adjusted diluted net operating income per share, and adjusted net operating return on equity. A complete description of all of our non-GAAP measures may be found in Press Release Exhibit F, and reconciliations of these measures to the most comparable GAAP measures may be found in Press Release Exhibit G. These exhibits are on the Investor section of our website. Today, you will hear from Rick Thornberry, RADIAN's Chief Executive Officer, and Sumita Pandit, President and Chief Financial Officer.

Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded, I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Dan coel, head of investor relations and Capital Management. Please go ahead.

Thank you and welcome to radian, second quarter, 2025 conference call. Our press release which contains Radiance Financial results for the quarter was issued yesterday evening. And is posted to the investor section of our website at radian.com.

This press release includes certain non gut measures that may be discussed during today's call including adjusted pre-tax operating income, adjusted deleted net operating income per share and adjusted net operating return on equity.

A complete description of all of our non-GAAP measures may be found in the press release Exhibit F.

And reconciliations of these measures to the most comparable GAAP measures may be found in press release Exhibit G. These exhibits are on the investor section of our website.

Dan Kobell: Before we begin, I would like to remind you that comments made during the call will include forward-looking statements. These statements are based on current expectations, estimates, projections, and assumptions that are subject to risks and uncertainties which may cause actual results to differ materially. For a discussion of these risks, please review the cautionary statements regarding forward-looking statements included in our earnings release and the risk factors included in our 2024 Form 10-K and subsequent reports filed with the SEC. These are also available on our website. Now, I would like to turn the call over to Rick.

Today, you will hear from Rick thorneberry raid and chief executive officer and submit a Pandit president and Chief Financial Officer.

Before we begin, I would like to remind you that comments made during the call will include forward-looking statements.

These statements are based on current expectations, estimates projections, and assumptions that are subject to risk and uncertainties, which may cause actual results to differ materially.

For discussion of these risks, please review the cautionary statements regarding forward-looking statements included in our earnings release and the risk factors included in our 2024 Form 10-K and subsequent reports filed with the SEC.

These are also available on our website.

Richard Thornberry: Good morning, and thank you all for joining us today. I am pleased to report strong performance for RADIAN in the second quarter and the first half of the year. Our results continue to reflect the strength of our high-quality mortgage insurance portfolio, as well as our disciplined approach to capital management and operational efficiency. I will start by sharing a few financial and business highlights. We increased book value per share by 12% year-over-year, generating net income of $142 million in the second quarter and delivering a return on equity of 12.5%. Our primary mortgage insurance enforcer, which is the main driver of future earnings for our company, grew to another all-time high of $277 billion. And consistent with trends over the last several quarters, our mortgage insurance portfolio delivered strong credit performance with CURES exceeding new defaults during the quarter.

Now, I would like to turn the call over to Rick.

Good morning, and thank you all for joining us today, I am pleased to report strong performance for radiant in the second quarter and the first half of the year.

Our results continue to reflect the strength of our high-quality mortgage insurance portfolio, as well as our disciplined approach to Capital Management and operational efficiency.

Financial and business highlights.

We increased book value per share by 12% year-over-year generating, net income of 142 million in the second quarter and delivering a return on Equity of 12.5%.

Our primary mortgage insurance enforce, which is the main driver of future earnings for our company.

Grew to another all-time high of 277 billion.

Richard Thornberry: Overall, our outlook for our mortgage insurance business remains positive. Our strong financial position and capital flexibility have allowed us to deliver excellent financial results and help our customers transform risk into opportunity while also returning value to our stockholders. Turning to the housing and mortgage market, there's no shortage of headlines today about the challenges facing the housing market, particularly with regard to housing supply constraints and elevated home prices. While these factors challenge affordability, there is stability in the consumer and labor market, including positive employment trends and wage growth. At the same time, housing demand remains strong, especially among first-time homebuyers, as Millennials, the largest generation in American history, have moved into their prime home-buying years. While these are prominent market trends nationally, they vary in each region across the country.

And consistent with Trends over the last several quarters. Our mortgage insurance portfolio delivered, strong credit performance, with cures exceeding, new defaults during the quarter.

Overall.

Our outlook for our mortgage insurance business, remains positive.

Our strong financial position and capital flexibility have allowed us to deliver. Excellent, Financial results and help our customers transform risk into opportunity. While also returning value to our stockholders,

Turning to the housing and mortgage Market.

There's no shortage of headlines today about the challenges facing the housing market particularly with regard to housing, Supply, constraints, and elevated home prices.

While these factors challenge affordability, there is stability in the consumer and labor market, including positive employment trends and wage growth.

At the same time housing demand remains strong especially among first-time home. Buyers as Millennials, the largest generation in American history have moved into their Prime home buying years.

Richard Thornberry: And the future outlook for each of these regions also evolves over time, which is why our approach is grounded in data. We take these market factors and regional nuances into account as we leverage our proprietary data and analytics, including our radar rates' risk-based pricing to inform our strategic pricing decisions. This allows us to dynamically adjust our market and credit segment exposure, taking into consideration national and regional trends in order to maximize economic value for our company and stockholders. I'm proud to say, since 1977, RADIAN has supported lenders and their borrowers by helping more than eight and a half million families achieve their dream of homeownership in an affordable, responsible, and sustainable way. For many families, it's been estimated to take more than two decades to save for a 20% down payment.

While these are prominent Market transnationally they vary in each reason across the country.

And the future outlook for each of these regions also involves over time.

Which is why our approach is grounded in data.

We take these Market factors and Regional nuances into account, as we leverage our proprietary data and analytics, including our radar rates risc-based pricing to inform our strategic pricing decisions.

This allows us to dynamically adjust our market and credit segment exposure.

Taking into consideration National and Regional Trends in order to maximize economic value for our company as stockholders.

I'm proud to say, since 1977 radiant has supported lenders and their borrowers by helping more than 8 and a half million families, achieve their dream of home ownership and an affordable responsible, and sustainable way.

Richard Thornberry: Our private mortgage insurance products help qualified borrowers overcome this financial hurdle while also creating a path to potential wealth accumulation with their home as an investment. The recent passage of the One Big Beautiful Bill Act further enhances this affordability as mortgage insurance premiums are once again tax deductible. And as I've said before, our mortgage insurance industry is well-positioned to play an important role in the housing finance system and serve as the only source of permanent private capital that stands in front of US taxpayers, consistently underwriting mortgage credit risks through the market cycles. As a result, we remain closely aligned with policymakers on Capitol Hill, the administration, and the FHFA in our shared mission of bridging the gap to affordable, responsible, and sustainable homeownership for more Americans through various economic cycles. Sumita will now cover the details of our financial and capital positions.

For many families, it's been estimated to take more than 2 decades to save for a 20% down payment.

Our private mortgage insurance products helps qualify borrowers, overcome this financial hurdle while also creating a path to potential wealth accumulation, with their home as an investment.

the recent passage of the 1 big beautiful, bill act further enhances the support ability as mortgage insurance premiums are once again tax deductible

As I've said before, our mortgage insurance industry is well positioned to play our important role in the housing finance system and serve as the only source of permanent private capital that stands in front of us taxpayers, consistently underwriting mortgage credit risks through the market cycles.

As a result, we remain closely aligned with policy makers on Capitol Hill, the administration and the fhfa and our shared mission of Bridging the Gap to Affordable, responsible and sustainable home ownership for more Americans through various economic Cycles.

Sumita Pandit: Thank you, Rick, and good morning to you all. Our second quarter results demonstrate another strong quarter of performance. We achieved net income of $142 million, or $1.02 per diluted share, an increase compared to $0.98 per diluted share reported in the first quarter. We generated a return on equity of 12.5%, reflecting the strong fundamentals of our business, and drew book value per share 12% year-over-year to $33.18. This book value per share growth is in addition to our regular stockholder dividends, which were $35 million during the quarter. Our reported book value per share also includes $2.02 of unrealized net loss on investments that is expected to accrete back into book value per share over time. Turning now to a few key drivers of our results, which highlight the consistency, balance, and resiliency of our mortgage insurance business model.

Submit them will Now cover the details of our financial and capital positions.

Thank you, Rick. And good morning to you all our second quarter results, demonstrate another strong quarter of performance. We achieved net income of 142 million or $12 per diluted. Share an increase compared to 98 cents per diluted share reported in the first quarter.

We generated a return on Equity of 12 and a half percent reflecting the strong fundamentals of our business and grew book value per share. 12% year-over-year to 338 this book value per share. Growth is in addition to our regular stockholder dividends, which were 35 million during the quarter.

Our reported book value per share. Also includes 2 dollars and 22 cents of unrealized. Net loss on investments that is expected to accrete back into book value per share over time.

Sumita Pandit: Our total revenues continued to be strong in the second quarter at $318 million. Slides 10 through 12 in our presentation include details on our mortgage insurance enforcer portfolio, as well as other key factors impacting our net premiums earned. We generated $234 million in net premiums earned in the quarter, consistent with the past several quarters. Our large high-quality primary mortgage insurance enforcer portfolio grew to another all-time high of $277 billion. We wrote $14.3 billion of new insurance written in the second quarter of 2025, marking a 3% increase compared to the same period last year. As shown on slide 10, our persistency rate remains strong at 84% this quarter. We remain focused on writing an IW that we believe will generate future earnings and economic value while effectively maintaining the portfolio's health, balance, and profitability.

Turning now to a few key drivers of our results, which highlight the consistency balance and resiliency of our mortgage insurance business model.

Our total revenues continue to be strong in the second quarter at 318 million.

Presentation include details on our mortgage insurance enforce portfolio as well as other key factors impacting. Our net premiums earned

We generated 234 million in net, premiums earned in the quarter consistent with the past several quarters.

Our large high quality primary mortgage insurance enforce portfolio crew to another all-time high of 277 billion.

We wrote 14.3 billion of new insurance written in the second quarter of 2025 marking a 3% increase, compared to the same period last year.

As shown on slide 10, our persistency rate remains strong at 84%. This quarter.

Sumita Pandit: As of the end of the second quarter, over 60% of our insurance enforcers had a mortgage rate of 6% or lower. Given current mortgage interest rates, these policies are less likely to cancel due to refinancing in the near term, and we therefore continue to expect our persistency rate to remain strong. As shown on slide 12, the enforcer premium yield for our mortgage insurance portfolio remains stable as expected at 38 basis points. With strong persistency rates and the current positive industry pricing environment, we expect the enforcer premium yield to generally remain stable for the remainder of the year as well. Our provision for losses and related credit trends continue to be positive, with strong CURE activity and very low claim levels. On slide 16, we provide trends for our primary default inventory.

We remain focused on writing, an IBEW that we believe will generate future earnings and economic value while effectively maintaining the portfolio's health balance and profitability.

As of the end of the second quarter, over 60% of our insurance enforce had a mortgage rate of 6% or lower.

Given current mortgage interest rates. These policies are less likely to cancel due to refinancing in the near term. And we therefore continue to expect our persistency rate to remain strong.

As shown on slide 12, the enforce premium yield for our mortgage insurance portfolio. Remains stable as expected at 38 basis points.

With strong persistency rates and the current positive industry pricing environment. We expect the enforced premium meal, to generally remain stable for the remainder of the year as well.

Sumita Pandit: Total defaults decreased to approximately 22,000 loans at quarter end, resulting in a portfolio default rate of 2.27%, down six basis points from the previous quarter. CURES continued to outpace new defaults, with new defaults decreasing 8% to approximately 11,500 in the second quarter compared to approximately 12,500 reported in the first quarter. As we noted in the past, our new defaults continue to contain significant embedded equity, which has been a key driver of recent favorable trends, including higher CURE rates and reduced severity for policies that result in claim submission. As shown on slide 17, our CURE trends have been very consistent and positive in recent periods, meaningfully exceeding our initial default-to-claim expectations. CURE rates in the second quarter exhibited typical seasonal trends and compare favorably to similar periods from prior years. Let's turn to slide 18.

Our provision for losses and related credit Trends, continue to be positive with strong cure activity, and very low clean levels on slide 16, we provide trends for our primary default inventory, total defaults decreased to approximately 22,000 loans at quarter end, resulting in a portfolio. Default rate of 2.27% down 6 basis points from the previous quarter.

Cures continued to outpace new defaults, with new defaults decreasing 8% to approximately 11,500 in the second quarter compared to approximately 12,500 reported in the first quarter.

As we noted in the past, our new defaults continue to contain significant embedded equity, which has been a key driver of recent favorable trends, including higher cure rates and reduced severity for policies that result in claim submission.

As shown on slide 17, our cure Trends have been very consistent and positive in recent periods. Meaningfully exceeding, our initial default to claim expectations,

Sumita Pandit: We maintained our initial default-to-claim rate of 7.5%, which resulted in $48 million of loss provision for new defaults in the second quarter. Positive reserve development on prior-period defaults of $36 million partially offset this provision for new defaults. As a result, we recognized a net expense of $12 million in the second quarter compared to $15 million in the first quarter. Moving to our other business lines, adjusted pre-tax operating loss for all other was approximately $16.4 million in the second quarter compared to the loss of approximately $3.5 million in the first quarter. The increase is primarily driven by lower revenue this quarter within our mortgage conduit business as a result of mark-to-market changes on residential mortgage loans held for sale. Now, turning to our other expenses where we continue to seek additional operating efficiencies. For the second quarter, our other operating expenses totaled $89 million.

Cure rates in the second quarter, exhibited typical seasonal, Trends and compared favorably to similar periods from prior years.

Let's turn to slide 18, we maintained our initial default to claim rate of 7 and a half percent, which resulted in 48 million of loss, provision for new defaults in the second quarter.

Positive Reserve development on prior period, defaults of 36 million, partially offset this provision for new defaults.

As a result, we recognized a net expense of 12 million in the second quarter compared to 15 million in the first quarter.

Moving to our other business lines.

Adjusted 3 tax operating loss for all other was approximately 16.4 million in the second quarter compared to the loss of approximately 3 and a half million in the first quarter.

The increase is primarily driven by lower Revenue this portal within our mortgage conduit business. As a result of mark-to-market changes on Residential Mortgage Loans. Help for sale.

now, turning to our other expenses where we continue to seek additional operating efficiencies,

Sumita Pandit: The increase from prior quarter was expected as it aligns with the timing for our annual share-based incentive grants, similar to previous years. As communicated previously, we expect operating expenses of $320 million for the full year 2025, a decrease of 8% compared to $348 million in 2024. Moving to our capital available liquidity and related strategic actions, RADIAN Guarantee's financial position remains strong. We paid a $200 million dividend to RADIAN Group in the second quarter while maintaining a stable PMIL cushion of $2 billion. We expect that RADIAN Guarantee will pay up to $795 million of total distributions to RADIAN Group in 2025, in line with its 2024 statutory net income. This $795 million of total capital return includes the $400 million already paid in the first half of the year. Moving to our holding company, RADIAN Group.

For the second quarter, our other operating expenses, total 89 million, the increase from prior quarter was expected as it aligns with the timing for our annual share based incentive. Grants similar to previous years

As communicated previously, we expect operating expenses of 320 million for the full year. 2025 a decrease of 8% compared to 348 million in 2024,

Moving to our Capital available liquidity and related strategic actions.

The Indian guarantees financial position remains strong. We paid a hundred million dollar dividend to rate in group in the second quarter. While maintaining a stable P, Mars cushion of 2 billion dollars.

We expect that radiant guarantee will pay up to 795 million of total distributions to radian group in 2025, in line with its 2024, statutory, net income.

Includes the 400 million already paid in the first half of the year.

Sumita Pandit: In the first half of 2025, we repurchased approximately 13 and a half million shares of our common stock, surpassing the combined repurchases of 2023 and 2024, as we took advantage of the market opportunity to purchase significant shares at a price level that is immediately accretive to book value. This brought our total return of capital to stockholders in the first half of the year to more than $500 million. Our available holding company liquidity was $784 million at the end of the second quarter. The decline in liquidity this quarter of approximately $50 million was due to higher share repurchases, which we continue to believe was an attractive use of a portion of our excess liquidity. We also have an undrawn credit facility with borrowing capacity of $275 million, providing us with additional financial flexibility. I will now turn the call back over to Rick.

Moving to our holding company. Radian group.

In the first half of 2025, we repurchased approximately 13 and a half million shares of our common stock surpassing the combined repurchases of 2023 and 2024, as we took advantage of the market opportunity, to purchase significant shares at a price level, that is immediately accretive to Book value.

This brought our total return of capital to stockholders in the first half of the year to more than 500 million.

Our available holding company, liquidity was 784 million at the end of the second quarter.

The decline in liquidity, this quarter of approximately 50 million dollars was due to higher share purchases, which we continue to believe was an attractive use of a portion of our excess liquidity.

We also have an undrawn credit facility with borrowing capacity of 275 million providing us with additional Financial flexibility.

Richard Thornberry: Thank you, Sumita. Our results in the quarter continue to reflect the balance and resiliency of our company, as well as the strength and flexibility of our capital and liquidity positions. I want to recognize and thank our RADIAN team for the outstanding work they do every day. And now, operator, we would be happy to take questions.

I will now turn the call back over to Rick.

Thank you, Samantha, our results in the quarter, continue to reflect the balance, and resiliency of our company, as well as the strength and flexibility of our capital and liquidity positions.

Sumita Pandit: Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one-one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one-one again. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. And our first question comes from Doug Harder of UBS. Your line is open.

I want to recognize and thank our radiant team for the outstanding work, they do every day. And now, operator, we would be happy to take questions.

Thank you.

As a reminder to ask a question, please?

To withdraw your question. Please press star 1 1, again please, stand by while we compile the Q&A roster.

Doug Harter: Thanks. I'm hoping you could talk about your view on how much liquidity you feel like you want to hold up at the holding company, you know, as we think about the magnitude of the capital return that you can continue in the second half.

And our first question comes from Doug Harter of UBS. Your line is open.

Uh, thanks.

I was hoping you could talk about your your view on how much liquidity you uh feel like you want to hold up at the uh holding company.

Sumita Pandit: Yeah, thanks, Doug, for the question. So, I think as I walked through in my prepared remarks, we continue to have really strong liquidity in our holding company. I think we ended the quarter at $784 million, which is lower than the first quarter number. But again, as I mentioned, we've used some of that liquidity towards opportunistic share repurchases. We were able to buy back our shares at really good prices that were extremely accretive to our book value. And so we went ahead and did that. As you can see, we are bringing down our liquidity a little bit in the holding company. If you go back two years, we had higher liquidity numbers in our holding company of about a billion and more. Last year, we repaid some of our outstanding debt, brought down our leverage to less than 20%.

Uh, you know, as we think about the magnitude of capital return that you can continue in the second half.

Yeah, thanks Doug for the question. So I think, as I walk through in my prepared remarks, we continue to have really strong liquidity in our holding company. I think we ended the quarter at 784 million which is lower than the first quarter number. But again as I mentioned we've used uh some of that liquidity towards opportunistic, Sherry purchases. We were able to buy back our shares and

Sumita Pandit: So we are being, I would say, very, very careful and yet, I would say, planned in terms of how we are thinking about our overall liquidity in the holding company. And we will continue to take judicious decisions with regard to capital allocation and how much liquidity we will keep in the holding company. We've not put out any forward statements in terms of what is that exact balance, but I think we would be comfortable saying that right now our liquidity is quite in excess of what we may think is the appropriate buffer at the holding company.

Richard Thornberry: And I might just add, Sumita, too, just as we mentioned last quarter, this year we expect to bring up $795 million from RADIAN Guarantee, of which this year so far we brought up $400 million. So we have good visibility to cash flow from RADIAN Guarantee, you know, kind of now into the future. And so that's a really strong position to be in, but I just want to make sure we add that.

Really good prices that were extremely, accretive to our book value. And so, we went ahead and did that. Uh, as you can see, we are bringing down our liquidity, a little bit in the holding company. If you go back 2 years, we had higher liquidity numbers, in our holding company, uh, of about a billion and more. Last year, we repaid, some of our outstanding debt brought down our leverage to less than 20%. So, we are being, I would say, very, very careful and yet. Um, I would say planned in terms of how we are thinking about our overall liquidity in the holding company, and, uh, we will continue to take judicious decisions with regard to Capital allocation and how much liquidity we will keep in the holding company. We've not put out any forward statements in terms of. What is that exact balance? But I think we would be comfortable saying that right now. Our liquidity is quite in excess of what we may think. Is the appropriate buffer at the holding company.

Sumita Pandit: Thank you.

Yeah, I I might just add some of the 2 just as we mentioned last quarter this year, we expect to bring up 795 million from radiant guarantee of which this year so far we brought up 400 million so we have good visibility to cash flow from Reading guarantee, you know, kind of now into the future. And so that's a really strong position to be in but I just want to make sure we had that.

Doug Harter: The sustainability...

Sumita Pandit: Oh, go ahead.

Doug Harter: Oh, it's just how should we think about the sustainability of that $795 dividend up to the old sco as we kind of move into next year?

Thank you. This is Dana. Oh, go ahead.

Sumita Pandit: Yeah, I mean, I think again, you know, just trying to avoid any forward guidance of what would be the exact, I would say, income levels. But as you know, the dividend from RGI is driven by the statutory net income of the prior year. So, you know, I would say whatever is our stat net income in 2025 would be an indicator of what we could pay next year in 2026. And it is a little bit mechanical. We are trying to make sure that whatever we can dividend up from RGI, we are maximizing that dividend. So I would say our stat net income would be the best proxy of our dividend capacity from RGI to group.

Oh, it's just how should we think about the sustainability of that 795, uh, dividend up to the Old Co as we kind of move into next year?

Doug Harter: Thank you.

From our GI to group.

Sumita Pandit: You're welcome. And our next question comes from Bo's George of KBW. Your line is open.

Thank you.

You're welcome.

Doug Harter: Hey, everyone, good morning. Actually, you noticed the marks on, you know, on those loans held for sale that drove some of the decline in earnings at HomeGenius or the other segment. What was the magnitude of those marks?

And our next question comes from Bose George of KBW. Your line is open.

Richard Thornberry: Yeah, Bo's, thank you for that question. I kind of walked you through a little bit because, just because you referenced HomeGenius and kind of in general, I think it's probably worth just kind of doing a little bit of kind of an update. So we know historically, you know, there's some connection to All Other and maybe the segment previously known as HomeGenius. I just want to take a moment to kind of walk through all the activities of All Other, including the conduit. So, you know, last year we restructured the businesses that were part of HomeGenius, and we don't really run it as a HomeGenius segment today. They're in All Other.

Hey everyone. Good morning. Um actually you noticed the the the marks on um you know on those loans help for sale that drove some of the decline in earnings at home, Genius of the other segments. What was the magnitude of those of the marks?

Yeah. Bose, thank you for that question. I I kind of walk you through a little bit because uh just because you referenced home genius and kind of in general, I think it's probably worth just kind of doing a little bit of

kind of an update. So we we, we know historically, you know, there's some connection to all other and maybe the pre the segment previously known as from genius, but I just want to take a moment to kind of walk through all the activities of all other including the conduit. So

Richard Thornberry: I think it's also, I just want to highlight for real estate tech, that part of our business that was HomeGenius, you know, we made a decision in the second quarter to discontinue kind of our investment in the technology on that business as kind of a follow-on to what we've talked about in previous quarters. I just want to highlight that. And then as you kind of flow through All Other, it's got the holding company investment income. It's got the title of real estate businesses, which were generally consistent with the prior quarter. And so the conduit business, as we went through the second quarter, we actually saw the pipeline and loans held for sale grow to, I think, close to $900 million.

you know, last year, we restructured the home, the businesses that were part of Home genius and we don't really run it as a home genius segment. Today, they're in, in all other. Um, I think it's also, I just want to highlight for Real Estate. Tech that part of our business that was home. Genius. Yeah, we made a decision in the second quarter to discontinue kind of our investment in the technology on that business is kind of a follow on to what we've talked about in previous quarters. So I just want to highlight that.

Richard Thornberry: And as Sumita highlighted in her comments, we saw the spread volatility kind of on the mark-to-market at June 30 kind of widen out specifically around interest-only kind of instruments, if you will. And the impact combined with kind of higher expenses with a higher volume was about $9 million in the quarter. You know, the positions hedge valuations are going to fluctuate, you know, from time to time. And so as we go through a quarter end, we make those adjustments. But I would say, yeah, and that's the amount, the $9 million.

And then, as you kind of flow through all other, it's got the holding company investment income. It's got the title of real estate businesses, which were generally consistent with the prior quarter. And so, the conduit business, as we went through the second quarter, we actually saw the pipeline and loans held for sale grow to, I think, close to $900 million.

Doug Harter: Okay, that's helpful. Thanks. And then just, yeah, seeing to HomeGenius, is there a way to think about or how you guys think about just the timeline to getting that to break even, especially if we were in a hire for longer, which, you know, presumably makes it a little tougher on the title side. And are there, you know, any strategic actions that you could take to accelerate, you know, what's going on there?

And as, as submit the highlighted in her comments, we saw the the spread volatility kind of on the mark to Market in June 30th specifically around interest only, um, kind of instruments if you will. And the impact combined with kind of higher expenses with a higher volume, is about 9 million dollars in the uh, in the quarter. You know, the positions hedge valuations are going to fluctuate, you know, from time to time and so as we go through a quarter in, we, we make those adjustments. But I would say, you know, not not that's that's the amount the 9 million dollars.

Okay, that's helpful. Thanks. And then just I think the home team use is there a way to think about or how you guys think about just the the timeline to getting that to break even especially if you're in in a higher for longer which you know, presumably makes a little tougher on the title.

Richard Thornberry: Yeah, I appreciate the question. So I would, the way I would comment on that without providing kind of forward guidance is that actually our title business quarter over quarter, I think you'll see in the revenue breakout was up. I think it's up year over year. So we're actually, through the combination of additional clients and penetration of existing clients, seeing some growth. The numbers are small. Real estate services has actually been more impacted by higher rates for longer just because of some of the pullback on SFR financings. So I would say, you know, the combination of those two businesses has been fairly consistent and not really necessarily impacting the financial outcome of All Other. The volatility has come through our conduit business.

Side. Um, and are there, you know, any strategic actions that could you could take to accelerate? Um, you know what's going on there?

Yeah, appreciate the question. So I would the way I would comment on that without providing kind of forward. Guidance is is that actually our title business quarter over quarter. I think you'll see in the the revenue breakout was up, I think it's up over year over year so we're actually through the combination of additional clients and penetration of existing clients

Richard Thornberry: And then I think also in the quarter, we had an accounting adjustment between mortgage and group of about $4 million that when you look at a year to date, it's kind of a zero impact, but it was a reclass of about $4 million bucks. So I think really for this quarter, the noise is primarily in conduit and that adjustment. But as it relates to what we do going forward, you know, I would just say more to come on that. The teams are working hard and continue to kind of focus on, you know, finding avenues of growth and, you know, continuing to find ways to produce a positive contribution.

Seeing some growth, the numbers are small. Um Real Estate Services is actually been more impacted by higher rates for longer just because of some of the pullback on sfr financings. So I would say, you know, the combination of those 2 businesses, um, have been fairly consistent and not really necessarily impacting the financial outcome of of all other. The volatility has come through our conduit business. And then I think also in the quarter uh we had a um, an accounting adjustment between um, mortgage and group of about 4 million dollars that when you look at a year to date, it's kind of a zero impact. But it was a reclass of about 4 million bucks. So I think really, for this quarter, the, the noise is primarily in conduit and that adjustment, but as it relates to, what we do going forward, you know, I would just say more to come on that the teams are working hard and continue to kind of focus on

you know, Finding Avenues of growth and, you know, continuing to find um,

Doug Harter: Okay, great. Thank you.

Richard Thornberry: Yeah, appreciate it.

Ways to produce a positive contribution.

Sumita Pandit: Thank you. This concludes our question and answer session. I'd now like to turn it back to Rick Thornberry for closing remarks.

Um, okay great. Thank you.

Yep, appreciate it.

Richard Thornberry: Thank you again for joining us today and your questions and your interest in RADIAN. We appreciate it. We're pleased to report another strong quarter for RADIAN marked by, I think, very strong results and continued positive credit trends. We look forward to connecting with many of you in the months ahead and sharing our progress on the next quarter. Thank you.

Thank you. This concludes our question and answer session, I'd now like to turn it back to Rick. Thornberrys

Sumita Pandit: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating, and you may now disconnect.

Look forward to connecting with many of you in the months ahead and sharing our progress on the next quarter. Thank you.

This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for

Connect.