Q2 2025 InterDigital Inc Earnings Call
Demi: Thank you for standing by. At this time, I would like to welcome everyone to InterDigital's second quarter 2025 earnings call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to redraw your question, again, press the star one. Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference over to Raiford Garrabrant, head of investor relations.
Thank you for standing by at this time, I would like to welcome everyone. To interdigital second quarter 2025 earnings call Alliance have been placed on you to prevent any background noise. After the speakers remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star followed by the number 1 on your telephone keypad. If you would like to redraw your question again, press the star 1.
Thank you. I would now like to join the conference over to wait for it car brand head of investor relations.
Raiford Garrabrant: Thank you, Demi, and good morning, everyone. Welcome to InterDigital's second quarter 2025 earnings conference call. I am Raiford Garrabrant, head of investor relations for InterDigital. With me on today's call are Larry Chen, our president and CEO, and Richard Brezski, our CFO. Consistent with prior calls, we will offer some highlights about the quarter and the company and then open the call up with questions. For additional details, you can access our earnings release and slide presentation that accompanies this call on our investor relations website. Before we begin our remarks, I need to remind you that in this call, we will make forward-looking statements regarding our current beliefs, plans, and expectations, which are not guarantees of future performance and are made only as of the date hereof.
Thank you, Demi and good morning everyone.
Welcome to InterDigital's second quarter 2025 earnings conference call.
I am Raeford garbrandt head of investor relations for interdigital.
With me on today's call earlier in chin, our president and CEO and Rich preski our CFO.
Consistent with prior calls, we will offer some highlights about the quarter and the company and then open the call up for questions.
For additional details, you can access our earnings release and slide presentation that accompanies this call on our investor relations website.
Raiford Garrabrant: Forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties that could cause actual results and events to differ materially from results and events contemplated by such forward-looking statements. These risks and uncertainties include those described in the risk factors section of our 2024 annual report on Form 10-K and in our other SEC filings. In addition, today's presentation may contain references to non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations of these non-GAAP financial measures to the most directly comparable GAAP financial measures are included in the supplemental materials and the financial metrics tracker posted to the investor relations section of our website. With that taken care of, I will turn the call over to Larry.
Before we begin our remarks, I need to remind you. That in this call, we will make forward-looking statements regarding our current beliefs plans and expectations, which are not guarantees of future performance. And are made only as of the date here of
Forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties.
That could cause actual results and events to differ materially from results and events contemplate about such forward-looking statements.
These risks and uncertainties include those described in the risk factors section of our 2024, annual report on form 10K and in our other SEC violence.
In addition, today's presentation may contain references to non-GAAP financial measures.
Reconciliations of these non-gaap Financial measures to the most directly comparable. Gaap, Financial measures are included in the supplemental materials, and the financial metrics tracker posted to the investor relations station of our website.
Larry Chen: Thank you, Raiford. Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us today. This week, we announced the conclusion of our arbitration with Samsung, which finalized the largest agreement we have signed in our company history. Under the term of an eight-year license lasting through 2030, Samsung will pay us more than a billion dollars, which equals to $131 million per year, and it's an increase of 67% compared to our previous agreement. This excellent result demonstrates, once again, the value of our foundational research, the strength of our IP portfolio, and the momentum we have built in our licensing programs. It also increased our annualized recurring revenue to an all-time record of $553 million, an increase of 44% year over year. Our new long-term Samsung agreement helped us deliver revenue adjusted EBITDA and non-GAAP EPS far exceeding the top end of our guidance.
with that taken care of, I will return the call over to Larry
Thank you for.
Good morning, everyone. Thanks for joining us today.
This week, we announced the conclusion of our arbitration with Samsung, which finalized the largest agreement we have signed in our company’s history.
And of the term of a 8-year license lasting through 2030, sends on a PS more than a billion dollars.
Which equals to 131 million per year, and it's an increase of 67% compared to our previous agreement.
This accent result demonstrate once again, the value of foundational research.
The strings are IP portfolio and the momentum. We have built in our licensing programs.
It also includes our annualized, recurring Revenue to an all-time record of 553 million.
And increase of 44% year-over-year.
Since agreement helped us deliver Revenue, adjust the IBA and non-gaap EPS far exceeding the top end of our guidance.
Larry Chen: Building on the strength of our second quarter result, the increased business momentum, and the opportunity to make more progress over the balance of this year, we have raised the full year 2025 guidance to between $790 million and $850 million, up $110 million at midpoint, which we'll cover the numbers in more detail in his section. We are delighted with the result of this arbitration. It's another validation of how foundational our innovation is to our connected world. Samsung is the world's largest smartphone manufacturer and one of our longest licensees dating back almost 30 years. We look forward to continuing our collaboration with Samsung, as we keep on driving innovation forward and sharing our technology through the standard process and through our licensing programs.
Building on the strengths of our second quarter result, The increased business momentum, and the opportunity to make more progress. Over the balance of this year, we have reached the full year 2025 guidance to between 790 million and 850 million dollars.
Up, 110 million dollars at midpoint.
Rich will cover the numbers in more detail in his section.
We are delighted with the result of this arbitration.
Is another validation of whole foundational. Our Innovation is to our connected world.
Samsung is worth the largest smartphone manufacturer and 1 of our longest licenses dating back. Almost 30 years,
We look forward to continuing our collaboration with Samsung, but we keep on driving Innovation forward.
Larry Chen: It's worth noting that the new agreement does not cover Samsung's digital TV and display monitors, which are part of a separate license that we announced early last year. Our new license means that the world's two leading device manufacturers, Apple and Samsung, are now licensed to our portfolio through the end of this decade. Following the recent agreement with major Chinese OEMs, including Oppo and Vivo, we have clear momentum in our smartphone program, where we have almost 80% of the global market under license and ARR from our smartphone program of $465 million, which is another all-time record. Still, staying with our smartphone program, we continue to make progress in our arbitration with Lenovo, which is processing in a timely fashion and according to plan.
And sharing our technology. So the standard process and through our licensing programs,
It's worth noting that the new agreement does not cover Samsung's digital TV and display monitors.
Which are part of a separate license. That will be announced early last year.
Our new license means that the world's 2 leading device manufacturer Apple and Samsung are now licensed to our portfolio through the end of this decade.
Following the recent agreement with the major Chinese OEMs, including Open and Vo.
We have clear momentum in our smartphone program where we have almost 80% of the global market under license, and aerr from smartphone program of 465 million, which is another all-time record.
Ste staying with our smartphone program. We continue to make progress in our arbitration with Lenovo
Which is processing in a timely fashion. And according to plan,
Larry Chen: Our consumer electronics and IoT program, the new license agreement with HP, which we signed at the start of the second quarter, is another good example of the progress we are making in growing revenue outside the smartphone program. The agreement licensed HP personal computers to our Wi-Fi and video decoding technology, and we now have more than 50% of the PC market under license. With the HP contract, revenue from our CE and IoT program increased 175% in the second quarter to about $65 million. Counting the HP and Samsung agreements, the total contract value of license that we have signed since 2021 is now more than $4 billion, demonstrating the accelerating momentum of our IP as a service business model.
Our consumer electronics and our program.
The new license agreement with the HP, which we signed at the start of the second quarter is another good example of the progress, we are making in growing Revenue. Outside the smartphone program,
the agreement license HP personal computers to our Wi-Fi and video decoding technology and we now have more than 50% of the PC market and their license.
With the HP contract revenue from our CEO and iot program. Increased 175% in the second quarter to about 65 million.
Counting the HP and sends an agreement. The total contract value of Licensing that we have signed since 2021 is now more than 4 billion dollars.
Momentum of our IP at a service business model.
Larry Chen: On the research front, the development of 6G is picking up steam, and our engineers are at the forefront of developing the foundational technology for the next generation of mobile. Our engineers are also leading the development of 6G standard, with multiple working group chair positions for 3G PEP. The wider integration of AI into cellular networks and the development of new technology, such as integrated sensing and communication, offers what could be an exciting new monetization opportunity for service providers and device manufacturers and makes our patent portfolio even more valuable. We believe 6G will also further the penetration of cellular wireless in new verticals, such as industrial IoT, smart city, healthcare, and automobile, where connectivity is increasingly important and will create a new licensing opportunity for us.
On the research front. The development of 6G is picking up steam and our Engineers are at the Forefront of dividing the foundational technology for the next generation of mobile.
Our Engineers are also leading the development of 60 standard with multiple working group chair position for 3gpp.
The wider integration of AI into cellular networks and the development of new technology, such as integrated sensing and communication, offers an exciting new monetization opportunity for service providers and device manufacturers.
And make our patent portfolio even more valuable.
We Believe 6G will also further the penetration of cellular Wireless in new verticals such as industrial iot, Smart City, Healthcare and automobile where connectivity is increasingly important and we will create a new licensing opportunity for us.
Larry Chen: We excel not only in converting our innovation into a broad patent portfolio, but also into one of the highest quality portfolios in the world. Recently, we were ranked number two among all the global leaders in telecoms in terms of both quality and quantity of our IP portfolio by an IEEE report. With our research leadership and the breadth and depth of our portfolio reflects, we are in a strong position to deliver value for our customers well into the next decade. Our long-term success is also underpinned by our ability to acquire, retain, and enhance our people. We continue to advance our talent strategy, placing an emphasis on mentorship, ongoing training, and leadership development. We believe that the long-term stability of our business and the continuous success put us in an excellent position as a destination for premier talents in our industry.
Route padding portfolio, but also into 1 of the highest quality portfolio in the world.
Recently, we ranked number 2 among all the global leaders in telecoms in turn both quality and quantity of our IP portfolio by an ilee report.
but our research leadership and the breadth and depths are portfolio, reflects
We are in a strong position to deliver value for our customers, well into the next decade.
our long-term success is also underpinned by our ability to acquire retain and enhance our people
We continue to advance our talent strategy, placing an emphasized on mentorship ongoing training and leadership development.
Larry Chen: You can find more information in our 2025 Corporate Sustainability Report on our website. And with that, I hand you over to Rich.
We believe that the long-term stability of our business and the continuous success put us in an excellent position as a destination for Premier talents in our industry.
You can find more information in our 2025 corporate sustainability report on our website.
And with that, I hand you over to reach
Richard Brezski: Thanks, Larry. Q2 was an exceptional quarter for InterDigital as we delivered all-time record levels of annualized recurring revenue and non-GAAP EPS. The results for the quarter far exceeded the top end of our guidance range, with the upside driven by the favorable conclusion of our arbitration with Samsung, which we just received this week. This conclusion also resulted in a significant step up in ARR, catch-up revenue, and full-year guidance for 2025. I'll provide more detail on each of these items in a moment. Revenue for the quarter was $300 million, which far exceeded the top end of our guidance of $170 million and was driven by the Samsung Arbitration Award and HP License Agreement. This compares to revenue of $224 million in Q2 of last year, when favorable court rulings and our enforcement against Lenovo helped generate $128 million in catch-up revenue.
Thanks Leon.
Q2 was an exceptional quarter for interdigital as we delivered all-time record levels of annualised, recurring revenue, and non-gaap eps.
The results for the quarter far, exceeded the top end of our guidance range with the upside driven, by the favorable conclusion of our arbitration, with Samsung, which we just received this week.
This conclusion also resulted in a significant Step Up in ARR.
Ketchup revenue and full year guidance for 2025.
I'll provide more detail on each of these items in a moment.
Revenue for the quarter was $300 million, which far exceeded the top end of our guidance of 170 million and was driven by the Samsung arbitration award nhp license agreement.
this compares to revenue of 224 million in Q2 of last year, when favorable court rulings and our enforcement against Lenovo helped generate 128 million in catch-up Revenue,
Richard Brezski: Let me take a second to discuss the impact of the Samsung Arbitration Award. Since entering into the agreement, we have been accruing revenue at the level of the prior agreement, which was $78 million per year. We received the arbitration decision just a few days ago in Q3, but since we had not yet closed the books on Q2, GAAP requires us to update our Q2 estimate based on the final decision. As a result, the award contributed $152 million of revenue to Q2. The $152 million of revenue was comprised of $33 million of recurring revenue and $119 million of catch-up revenue to true up the prior nine quarters from January 1, 2023, to March 31, 2025. Turning to annualized recurring revenue, our ARR increased 44% year over year to an all-time high of $553 million in Q2.
Let me take a second to discuss the impact of the Samsung arbitration award.
Since entering into the agreement, we have been accruing Revenue at the level of the prior agreement, which was 78 million per year.
We received the arbitration decision just a few days ago in Q3.
But since we had not yet closed the books on Q2, gaap requires us to update our Q2 estimate based on the final decision.
As a result, the award contributed 152 million of Revenue to Q2.
the 152 million of Revenue was comprised of 33, million of recurring revenue, and 119 million of ketchup Revenue to True up the prior 9 quarters from January 1st 2023 to March 31st 2025
To annualize, recurring Revenue.
Increased 44% year-over-year.
Richard Brezski: This was driven primarily by momentum in our smartphone program, where recent patent license agreements with Oppo, Vivo, and Lenovo increased our share of the smartphone market under license from about 50% to roughly 80%. These agreements, together with our excellent Samsung arbitration result, increased our smartphone ARR 58% year over year, from $294 million in Q2 last year to $465 million in Q2 this year. With smartphone ARR at $465 million, we are now drawing near our smartphone ARR goal of $500 million by 2027. In CE and IoT, the HP agreement is just the latest example of the significant growth opportunities that exist beyond the smartphone market. And we believe we can more than double the ARR from CE and IoT by 2030.
To an all-time high of 553 million in Q2.
This was driven primarily by moment momentum in our smartphone program.
where recent Pat license agreements with Oppo Vivo and Lenovo increased, our share of the smartphone market under license from about 50% to roughly 80%
These agreements together with our excellent Samsung arbitration result.
Increased. Our smartphone ARR, 58% year-over-year.
From 294 million in Q2 last year to 465 million in Q2 this year.
With smartphone ARR at 465 million, we are now drawing near. Our smartphone, are our goal of 500 million by 2027.
In C and iot. The HP agreement is just the latest example of the significant growth opportunities that exist beyond the smartphone market,
Richard Brezski: Through the growth in smartphone and CE IoT, together with our massive opportunity in video services, we are making good progress toward our goal of $1 billion plus in ARR across all programs by 2030. And it's important to remember that while ARR is a great metric to track the growth in our business, there is economic value above ARR alone. Over the last 10 years, we have recognized $1.5 billion of catch-up revenue. This has been tremendously valuable because we use the majority of that money to fund share repurchases over that time period. Today, we continue to have a lot of catch-up opportunity remaining, which tends to be 100% gross margin as we pursue our goal of $1 billion of ARR by 2030. Our adjusted EBITDA for the quarter was $237 million and equates to an adjusted EBITDA margin of 79%, up from 71% in Q2 last year.
And we believe, we can more than double the ARR from C and iot by 2030.
Through the growth in smartphone and CE iot together with our massive opportunity in video services.
We are making good progress toward our goal of 1 billion. Plus in ARR across all programs by 2030,
Important to remember that. While ARR is a great metric to track the growth in our business.
There is economic value above are alone.
Over the last 10 years, we have recognized 1 and a half billion of catch-up Revenue.
This has been tremendously valuable because we use the majority of that money to fund share repurchases over that time period.
Today we continue to have a lot of ketchup opportunity remaining, which tends to be 100% gross margin as we pursue our goals of 1 billion of ARR by 2030.
Our adjusted ibida for the quarter was 237 million and equates to an adjusted ibida margin of 79%.
Up.
Richard Brezski: Non-GAAP EPS also came in at an all-time high of $6.52 per Q2, well above the high end of our guidance range of $2.67 to $2.90, and powered by the strength of our financial model, where a high percentage of incremental revenue falls to the bottom line. Cash from operations was a robust $105 million in Q2, resulting in free cash flow of $92 million. Consistent with our capital allocation priorities, we continue to maintain a fortress balance sheet, invest for growth, and return excess capital to shareholders. In Q2, we returned $42 million to shareholders through $26 million in buybacks and $16 million through our recently increased dividend. In July, we bought back another $15 million of stock and made another $16 million dividend payment, bringing total return of capital to almost $90 million year to date.
from 71% in Q2 last year,
Non-GAAP EPS also came in at an all-time high of $6.52 for Q2.
Well, above the high end of our guidance range of $2.67 to $2.90 and powered by the strength of our financial model, where a high percentage of incremental Revenue falls to the bottom line.
Cash from operations was a robust 105 million in Q2 resulting in free, cash flow of 92 million.
Consistent with our Capital allocation priorities.
We continue to maintain a fortress balance sheet.
Invest for growth.
And return excess Capital to shareholders in Q2, we returned 42 million to shareholders through 26 million in BuyBacks and 16 million through our recently increased dividend.
In July, we bought back another 15 million dollars of stock and made another 16 million dividend payment.
Richard Brezski: In just the last three and a half years, we have repurchased more than half a billion dollars of stock, and we expect to continue to buy back shares over the remainder of this year. Looking forward to Q3, we expect recurring revenue will include $136 to $140 million of revenue from existing contracts, including the new run rate related to Samsung. Any revenue from any new agreements we may sign over the balance of the quarter would be additive to these amounts. Based only on existing contracts, we expect adjusted EBITDA margin of about 52% and non-GAAP diluted earnings per share of $1.52 to $1.72. As Larry noted, we are increasing our full year 2025 guidance based not only on our excellent results, but also on the opportunity to continue our progress.
Bringing total return of capital to almost $90 million a year to date.
In just the last 3.5 years, we have repurchased more than half a billion dollars of stock.
And we expect to continue to buy back shares over the remainder of this year.
Looking forward to Q3.
We expect recurring Revenue will include 136 to 140 million of revenue from existing contracts, including the new run rate related to Samsung
Any revenue from any new agreements, we may sign over the balance of the quarter would be additive to these amounts.
Based only on existing contracts. We expect adjusted ibida margin of about, 52%.
And non-gaap diluted earnings per share of 152 to 1.72.
Richard Brezski: We now expect revenue in the range of $790 million to $850 million, with adjusted EBITDA in a range of $551 million to $569 million, and non-GAAP earnings per share of $14.17 to $14.77. In addition, I'll note that we previously communicated that we expected double-digit growth in free cash flow for 2025 over the $212 million level we reported in 2024. Based on our updated expectations for strong free cash flow over the second half of the year, we now believe our free cash flow for full year 2025 could exceed $400 million, close to double 2024 levels. With that, I'll turn it back to Raiford.
As Ln, noted we are increasing our full year 2025 guidance, based not only on our excellent results but also on the opportunity to continue our progress.
we now expect Revenue in the range of 790 million to 850 million,
With adjusted Eva in a range of 551 million to 569 million.
And non-gaap earnings per share of 14.17 to 14.77.
In addition I'll note that we previously communicated that we expected double digit growth in free, cash flow for 2025. Over the 212 million level. We reported in 2024
Based on our updated expectations, for strong free cash flow over the second half of the year. We now believe our free cash flow for full year. 2025 could exceed $400 million close to double 2024 levels.
Raiford Garrabrant: Thanks, Rich. Before we move to Q&A, I'd like to mention that we'll be attending a number of investor events in Q3, including the Jefferies Tech Conference, the Evercore Tech Conference, and the Midwest Ideas Conference, all in Chicago, as well as the Sadodi Conference, which is virtual. Please reach out to your representatives at those firms if you'd like to schedule a meeting. At this point, Demi, we are ready to take questions.
With that, I'll turn it back to Raeford.
Thanks Rich before we move to Q&A, I'd like to mention that we'll be attending a number of investor investing Q3 including the Jeffrey's Tech conference, The evercore Tech conference and the Midwest ideas conference all in Chicago as well as the sedoti conference, which is virtual
Please reach out to your representatives at those firms if you'd like to schedule a meeting.
At this point, Demi, we are ready to take questions.
Demi: If you have dialed in and would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad to raise your hand and join the queue. Again, press star one to join the queue. Your first question comes from the line of Angela Soderstrom with Sadodi. Your line is open.
You have dialed.
A question. Please press star 1 on your telephone keypad to reach your hand and join the queue.
Again, press star, 1 to join the queue.
your first question comes from the line of
Anja Söderström: Hi, thank you for taking my question and congratulations on this front quarter here in Outlook. I'm just curious, the tax rate was a little bit lower. What should we think about that going forward given these new revenue contributions?
Hi, and thank you for uh, taking my question and congratulations on on the strong quarter here on Outlook. Um, I'm just curious, the, the tax rate was a little bit long. Should we think about that, going forward? Given this new, uh, Revenue contributions.
Richard Brezski: Yeah, thanks, Anya, for your comment. Yeah, the tax rate was a little bit lower. We are still evaluating the impacts of the new tax legislation, but generally, you know, think that they're a net positive. We see our kind of long-term tax rate still in the mid to high teens, but maybe a tick below what we might have thought otherwise. But we continue to evaluate that.
Yeah, uh, thanks Anna for your comment. Um, yeah, the tax rate was a little bit lower.
We, uh, are still evaluating uh, the impacts of uh, the new, uh, tax legislation. But generally, you know, think that they're a net positive. Uh, we see our kind of long-term tax rate, uh, still in the mid to high teens but, uh, maybe a a tick below, what we might have thought otherwise, uh, but we continue to evaluate that.
Anja Söderström: Okay, thank you. And also, there was some noise earlier this week or last week about some potential legislation that there would be some sort of tariffs or something on the IP. Do you have any comments around that, or do you have anything built into your contract where you can pass that on, or?
Okay, thank you. And also um there was some noise earlier this week or last week about the some potential Legacy.
That there would be.
Some.
Sort of tariffs or something on the IP. Um, do you have any comments around that? Or do you have anything built into your contract where you can pass that on? Or...
Larry Chen: Yeah, Anya, hey, this is Larry. I believe you're referring to a Wall Street Journal article regarding a potential proposal. We actually don't know any details, and we are not exactly certain, you know, where it will go. So without any details for, you know, the proposal for IP, we don't think it's appropriate for us to comment, but we are watching the situation pretty carefully, and we have a very healthy open dialogue with key policymakers in Washington, DC.
Yeah, Anya. Hey, this is Lauren. Um, I believe you're referring to a Wall Street Journal article, uh, regarding a potential proposal. Uh, we actually don't know any details. Uh, we are not exactly certain, you know, uh, where it will go. So without any details for, you know, the proposal for IP, uh, we don't think it's a problem for us to comment, but we are watching the situation pretty carefully. And we have a
Very healthy open dialogue with key policymakers in Washington, D.C.
Anja Söderström: Okay, thank you. And then also your updated guidance for the full year, that assumes some more catch-up payment potentially, right?
Okay, thank you. And then also your um updated guidance for the full year um that assumes some more catch up payments potentially, right?
Richard Brezski: Yeah, Anya, so when we look at our guidance, and the updated guidance is no different than what we've done in the past, we typically look at what we call a multi-path approach. So there's different combinations of different opportunities that we think, you know, we could bring across the line. And some of those opportunities would include catch-up. That's right.
Anja Söderström: Okay, thank you. That was all for me.
Uh, yeah, Anya. So uh, when we look at our our guidance, um, and and the updated guidance is no different than we've done in the past. Uh, we typically look at what we call multi-path approach. So there's different combinations of different opportunities that we think. Um, you know, we could bring across the line uh, and and some of those, uh, opportunities would include catch up. That's right.
Richard Brezski: Thanks.
Okay, thank you. That was all for me.
Thanks.
Demi: Next question comes from the line of Scott Searle with ROS Capital. Your line is open.
Scott Searle: Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions and congrats on getting Samsung across the finish line.
Next question, comes from the line of Scott Sir With The Rose, Capital, your line is open.
Richard Brezski: Hey, thanks, Scott. Larry, you know, looking at the wireless market now, you've got 80% of the market under license. You're approaching your $500 million target. I'm wondering how you're thinking about the long-term opportunity now with wireless. You're starting to talk a little bit about 6G, about some AI related to that as well. Are there other avenues to monetize within the traditional wireless market and/or in adjacencies, you know, whether it be Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, other connectivity protocols that you guys are thinking about to drive a figure higher than that $500 million ARR target?
Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my questions and congrats on getting Samsung across the finish line.
Hey.
You know, looking at the wireless market. Now you've got 80% of the market. Um uh, under license, you're approaching your 500 million dollar Target. I'm wondering how you're thinking about the long term opportunity now with wireless. Uh, you're starting to talk a little bit about 6G about some AI related to that as well. Are there other avenues to monetize within the traditional Wireless market and or in adjacencies? You know whether it be
Larry Chen: Yeah, hey, Scott, good morning. Yeah, if you look at our smartphone program here, we are currently at about 80% market penetration. Our ARR, as we just reported, is about $465 million. And we still have three major accounts we are working on trying to get them signed regarding the top 10 customers. So we feel very good about where we are. As Rich commented here, we feel we are very close to reaching our target on the smartphone side. Regarding the future of wireless, we are very optimistic about the strength of our portfolio, but more important about the way we are leading 6G development.
Wi-Fi Bluetooth other, uh, connectivity. Protocols that you guys are thinking about to drive a figure higher than that, that 500 million dollar our Target.
Yeah. Hey Scott. Good morning. Uh, yeah. If you look at our smartphone program, here we are currently at about 80% Market penetration our, our as we just reported is about 465 million.
And we still have 3 major accounts. We are working on, try to get them signed regarding the top 10 customers. So we feel very good about where we are but uh Rich commented here, we feel we are very close to reaching our Target uh on the smartphone side.
Larry Chen: As I commented in my remark, we believe 6G will open up not just enabling more smartphone growth, but also open up adjacent areas for verticals in smart city, industrial IoT, healthcare, and a bunch of other industries where connectivity clearly will drive a lot of more vertical adoptions here. So we are optimistic this will open up new opportunities for us, but as of now, we don't put a number to them yet.
Regarding the future Wireless. We are very uh, optimistic about the streams our portfolio, but more important about the way we are leading 60 development. So as I come in my remark, We Believe 60 will open up, not just enabling more smartphone growth, but also open up agents in the area for verticals in Smart City, industrial iot Healthcare and a bunch of other industry where connectivity clearly will drive a lot of more work to adoptions here. So we are optimistic, this will open up new opportunity for us uh but as of now we don't put a number to them yet.
Scott Searle: Hey, Larry, just to follow up on those comments, are you starting to invest pretty actively in some of those verticals and particularly smart city, industrial IoT, and healthcare, or should we be expecting some incremental dollars in R&D going in that direction? And then just the quick update on the streaming opportunity with the over-the-top players. Can you give us an update in terms of engagements that you're seeing at that level, level of, you know, ongoing dialogue, and maybe if there's any update as it relates to the Disney litigation? Thanks.
Larry Chen: Yeah, hey, Scott, the beauty for our business model is we invest in foundational technology, and then we build a, you know, a very strong and one of the most valuable IP portfolios in the industry. So when we go license different verticals, we actually do not have to incur additional, you know, costs into these different verticals other than some, you know, licensing activity itself. So that's sort of the 6G development here. Regarding the streaming side here, we are in continuous dialogue with all the major players, and, you know, as of today, we don't have any, you know, real concrete progress to report yet. Regarding the Disney litigation, we have done a lot of work, as you are aware, it's a multi-jurisdictional enforcement activity, and we have done a lot of, you know, early-stage progress and frankly have got multiple wins on the procedure side.
Hey, Larry, just to follow up on this comments. Are you starting to invest pretty actively in some of those verticals? And particularly Smart City Industrial iot in healthcare or, or should we be expecting some incremental dollars in R&D going in that direction? And then just the the quick update on the streaming opportunity, uh, with the over the top players. Um, can you give us an update in terms of engagements that you're seeing at that level level of, you know, ongoing dialogue? Um, and maybe if there's any update as it relates to the Disney litigation? Thanks.
1 of the most valuable IP portfolio in the industry. So we make a license different verticals. We actually do not have to incur additional, you know, costs into these different verticals other than some, you know, licensing activity itself.
Larry Chen: And we have a subsequent trial coming up later this year and early next year. And you can actually see all the details they are thinking of filing. That's on our website.
So so, so that's sort of the the 6G development here regarding the streaming side here, we are in continuous dialogue with all the major players. And, uh, you know, as of today, we don't have any, you know, real concrete. Um, progress to report yet, regarding the Disney indication we have, uh, done a lot of work, as you are aware, it's a model multi-jurisdictional, enforcement activity and we have done a lot of uh you know early stage progress and frankly have got multiple wins on the procedure side. And we have uh substance file coming up in later this year and early next year.
And you can actually see all the details, they are 10q fighting um that's on our website.
Scott Searle: Hey, Larry, maybe just to quickly follow up on that, and then I'll get back in the queue. But given the Disney litigation, is that slowing down dialogue with any of the other players out there? Are they waiting to see the outcome there before they more actively engage and continue in their process? And second, you know, the broad general timelines of when you would expect some sort of resolution, is 2026 the timeframe of when we could expect an initial deal? You know, anything from a timeline perspective would be helpful. Thanks.
Larry Chen: Yeah, hey, Scott, for the first half of your question here, we do not see Disney litigation as impacting our dialogue with other potential customers here. And regarding the timeline for Disney, it's hard to predict exactly, you know, when a settlement may happen. We are always open for open dialogues, even though sometimes we are in the middle of enforcement activity. And, but sometimes, you know, certain litigations take longer time and sometimes take shorter. We have seen that on the smartphone side. So, but as always, when we started our enforcement here, we are prepared to go all the way through, but we are always open for business dialogue in the meantime.
Hey, Lauren maybe, just to quickly follow up on that. And then I'll get back in the queue. But um, given the Disney litigation is that slowing down dialogue with any of the other players out there. Are they waiting to see the outcome there before they more actively engage and and continue in their process? And second, you know, the broad General timelines of when you would expect some sort of resolution is 2026, the time frame. When we could expect an initial deal. Um, you know any anything from a timeline perspective would be helpful. Thanks.
Yeah. Hey Scott for the first half of your question here, we do not see decent education as impacting, our dialogue with other potential customers here.
Uh, regarding the timeline for Disney. Uh, it's hard to predict exactly. You know, when a settlement may happen. Uh, we are always open for open dialogue, even though sometime we are in Middle enforcement activity. And but sometimes, you know, certainly litigation takes longer time, uh, and, and sometime take shorter. We have seen that on the smartphone side. So, but as always, when we started the enforcement, here we are. Prepared to go all the way through, but we are always open for business, dialogue in the meantime.
Scott Searle: Great, thanks so much. I'll get back in the queue.
Larry Chen: Thanks.
Okay, great, thanks so much. I'll get back in the queue.
Demi: Next question comes from the line of Arjun Bhatia with William Veer. Your line is open.
Next question comes from the line of Arjun. Bathia with William beer, your line is open.
Arjun Bhatia: Thank you, and I'll add my congrats on the Samsung outcome. Obviously, a big success there. Maybe if we can start there, Larry, I'm curious just if you reflect on the outcome, what it says about your tech, your patent portfolio, because the 67% uplift, I think, is well above kind of what we were expecting, a lot of investors were expecting, and obviously the implied kind of royalty rates in that agreement from an economic perspective are quite strong. So what does it say about, I guess, your technology, how you're investing, and then what might it mean for some of the other negotiations you're having with other smartphone OEMs or you might have in the future, like Shell and Cyril or, you know, even others that are not under contract yet? Thank you.
All right. Uh, thank you. And, um, I'll have my, uh, congrats on the Samsung outcome. Obviously, a big success there. Um, maybe if we can start there at Learn. I'm curious just...
If you reflect on the outcome, what does it say about the company?
Your tax your patent portfolio because the 67% uplift I think is, is well above kind of what we were expecting. A lot of investors were expecting and obviously the the implied kind of royalty rates in that in that agreement, uh, from from the economic perspective are quite strong. So what what does it say about
I guess your your technology, how you're investing and then what might it mean for some of the other negotiations you're having um with other smartphones
Larry Chen: Yeah, hey, Arjun, good morning. Yeah, regarding the SANS arbitration readout, as we have stated in our press release as well as our earning remarks here, we are quite pleased with the readout. We believe it properly reflects the value of foundational research as well as our IP portfolio. And I do think our team has done a very good job, you know, conveying all the value of our portfolio with the arbitrator, who in our opinion properly reached a conclusion. And we also want to thank the Samsung team, you know, for their professionalism in this process. And regarding the 67% increase compared to the prior agreement, we think that's very appropriate. Consider the prior agreement was a 10-year agreement.
Uh, oems or you might have in the future. Like my channel is here, or, you know, even even others that are not under contract yet. Thank you.
Yeah. Hey Argent, good morning. Um, yeah, regarding the sense ration result as we have,
Stated in your press release as well as our earning you know uh remarks. Here we are quite pleased with the result.
Uh, we believe it properly, reflects the value of our foundational research as well as our IP portfolio. And I do think our team has done a very good job. Uh, you know, conveying, uh, all the value of portfolio with the arbitrator, uh, who, in our opinion properly, reach the conclusion and, uh, we also want to thank the science on team, you know, for their professionalism in this process.
Uh, regarding the 67% increase compared to the prior agreement. We think that's very appropriate.
Larry Chen: At the time, it didn't really factor in the value of our 5G portfolio, as well as a lot of other innovations on, you know, videos and AI research we continue to do. I do think this is a very valuable development for our program. And as you know, Arjun, in our program here, you know, a major license agreement tends to be used as a comparable license for other customers, where it's time for renewal or sometimes when it's time to sign up the first customer for the first time. So we believe it will have a positive impact for our overall program, and we are really pleased about the outcome.
Consider the prior prior agreement. With a 10 year agreement, at the time, didn't really factor in the value of our 5G portfolio, as well as a lot of other Innovations on, you know, videos and and our research we continue to do
Uh, I do think this is the very valuable development for our program and as, you know, Argent in our program here, you know, a major license agreement tend to be used a comparable license for other customers uh when it's time for Renewal or or sometime with time to sign up the first customer for the first time. So we believe it will have a positive impact for our overall program. And we are really pleased about the outcome.
Arjun Bhatia: Perfect. That's great to hear. And then maybe, Rich, to follow up on that point a little bit, just as we're thinking about the changes to the model, I think the way you come up with guidance, obviously, it's a bit unique, but I imagine there was some, whether directly or indirectly, some Samsung catch-up revenue baked into your prior guidance. Is it possible at all to quantify what that was and how we should kind of just reflect on the change in Q3 and Q4, or sorry, Q3, the Q3 guidance that you provided relative to what the prior, what was prior, was previously implied in the back half numbers?
Perfect. Um, that's great to hear and then um, maybe uh, reach to follow up on on that point a little bit.
You come up with guidance. Um, obviously it's a bit bit unique but I I imagine there was
Richard Brezski: Yeah, I mean, the way I discuss it or describe it, Arjun, is under that multi-path approach, you know, we consider a range of potential outcomes for the Samsung result. And now that we've, you know, it's no longer a range, it's a point estimate, we have the result, right? And that, along with, you know, the other progress that we've made, puts us in a position to update the guidance, you know, based on the new multi-path that we see going forward.
Some, uh, whether directly or indirectly, some Samsung, catch up Revenue based on to your prior guidance. Um, is it possible at all to quantify what that was and how we should kind of just reflect on the change in Q3 and Q4 or sorry? Q3 uh the Q3 guidance that you provide a relative to what the prior um what was Prior was previously implied in the back half numbers
Yeah. I mean the way I discuss it, uh, or or describe it, Arjun is under that multi-path approach, uh, you know, we can consider a range of potential outcomes for the Samsung result. Uh, and now that we've, you know, it's no longer a range. It's a, a point estimate. We have the result right and and that, uh, along with, you know, the other progress that we've made, uh, puts us in a position to update the guidance, you know, based on the new multi path that we see going forward,
Arjun Bhatia: Okay, understood. Very helpful. And then, sorry, one last one, if I can, just when you have a big, you know, win like this and a kind of a step function change in outcome, can you just talk a little bit about what it means for your cost structure? Is there like a one-time fee that you kind of recognize in expenses that when you get an outcome like this, or are those costs relatively fixed?
Okay. Um, understood very helpful and then sorry 1 last 1. Um, if I can, just when you have a big, um, you know, when like this and a kind of a stuff function, uh, change in, in outcome, can you just talk a little bit about what it means for your cost structure? Um, is there like a 1 time, uh, be that, that you kind of recognize and expenses that when you get an outcome like this? Or are those costs? Um,
Richard Brezski: Yeah, so Arjun, the thing that I love about our business is that, you know, we've made the investment that made this agreement possible over the last years or decades, right? We've been investing, you know, for a long time in smartphone and 4G, 5G, and the video acquisition and continued video research thereafter. So that's what made that legacy investment, as well as the ongoing investment we're already making and would be making anyway, is what makes this agreement possible. So there really isn't any incremental cost as a result of this agreement. You know, we threw up some performance accruals and things like that, but it's very, very small, you know, relative to the size of the agreement. So it's, as I, you know, typically say, a lot of times new agreements or incremental value from renewals are 100% gross margin.
Relatively relatively fixed.
Yeah. So, uh, origin, the thing that I love about our business is that, you know, we've made the investment that may disagreement possible over the last years or decades, right? Uh, we've been investing, you know, for a long time in smartphone in, in 4G 5G, in in the video acquisition and and continued video research thereafter. So that's what made that that Legacy investment uh, as well as the ongoing investment we're already making and would be making anyway, is what makes this agreement possible? Uh so there really isn't any incremental cost as a result of this agreement. Um, you know, we true up some performance across and things like that, but it's it's very very small, you know, relative to the size of the agreement. So it's uh, as I, you know, typically say a lot of times new agreements or incremental value from renewals, uh, or 100% gross margin.
Arjun Bhatia: All right, perfect. Very helpful, and congrats again to you and the team. Take care.
Richard Brezski: Great, thanks.
All right. Perfect. Very helpful, and congrats again to you and the team. Take care.
Great, thanks.
Demi: Next question comes from the line of Paul Riani with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Larry Chen: Hi, guys. I'm trying to take the recurring revenue line and break it down just to understand. So this quarter is $138 million. What was the contribution of Samsung to this, and what was the expectation? So going in, did you have any expectations of Samsung to be in recurring revenue?
Next question comes from the line of tolani with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Hi guys.
Um, I'm I'm trying to, uh, take the recurring Revenue line and break it down, uh, just to understand. So, this quarter is 138 million. What was the contribution of Samsung to this and what was the expectation? So going in, did you have any expectations of Samsung to be in recurring Revenue?
Richard Brezski: Yeah, so we had been booking Samsung based on the prior agreement of $78 million. So we've basically been booking, you know, just shy of $20 million a quarter. Based on the new agreement, it's now $33 million of recurring revenue in the quarter.
Larry Chen: Got it. As we go into the following quarter, assuming nothing else, or can you just the recurring revenue line, what should we assume going forward in terms of the growth trajectory? And again, I know the way you guide is you don't add any other agreements. So based on the current agreements, what are the expected trends for recurring revenues?
Yeah, so uh, we had been booking, uh, Samsung at the based on the prior agreement of 78 million. Uh, so we basically been booking, you know, just shy of 20 million a quarter. Uh, based on the the new agreement uh it's now 33 million of recurring Revenue uh in the quarter.
Got it.
Um,
Richard Brezski: Yeah, so that's, you know, based on the current agreements, that's really what our guide is limited to at $136 to $140. That's based on our existing recurring revenue. And then, you know, anything that we're able to sign or renew or whatever thereafter or above that would be additive.
As we go into the following quarter, um, assuming nothing else, can you just discuss the recurring revenue line? What should we assume going forward in terms of the growth trajectory? Uh, and again, I know the way you guide is you don't add, um, any other agreements. So based on the current agreements, what are the expected trends for recurring revenues?
Larry Chen: Right. No, sorry, this is for the following quarter, which is in line with the $138 this quarter. So I understand it. If I try to forecast for next year, and again, based on the current agreements, how should recurring revenue trend if that's my baseline? So I'm trying to understand my baseline and then do some assumptions about anything else. So how do how is the recurring revenue line progressing if you don't get any other contract? To... Let me take this question and see if that makes sense. So if you look at here we are, right? We are end of Q2. We are projecting, you know, new deals will be done for the rest of the year. But as Rich has commented here, we don't really know exactly which combination will be.
Yeah, so so that's uh, you know, based on the current agreements. That's really what our our guide is is limited to uh, at 1 136 to 140, uh, that that's based on our existing, uh, recurring Revenue. Uh, and then, you know, anything that we're able to assign or, or renew or whatever thereafter or above, that would be additive
Right. No sorry this is for the following quarter which is in line with the 138 this quarter. So I understand that if I try to, if I try to forecast for next year and I and again based on the current agreements. What should, how should recurring Revenue trend?
If that's my Baseline. So, I'm trying to understand my Baseline and then do some assumptions about anything else. So how do how is the, uh, recurring Revenue line, progresses? If you don't get any other contract?
To to let me take this question and see if that makes sense. So if you look at here we are, right? We are endoc Q2
Larry Chen: So therefore, as the year progresses, and then we will hopefully by Q4, you know, having a very clear picture on where we are. Leading into next year, we also disclosed in our filings about, you know, a few contracts, you know, currently scheduled to expire. And you can see on our website. And so if you take out those expiration contracts, that would be the starting point for next year, assuming, you know, the current contract expires. But as you know, we always try to get them renewed, and very often we have success to get them renewed before they expire. So that's sort of the stepping function for starting off next year. And normally, again, historically, when contracts expire and you renew them, is there growth or is there contraction in the contract?
New Deals will be done for the rest of the year, but us reach a comment here. We don't really know exactly which combination will be. So therefore, as your progress and then we will, uh, hopefully buy Q4, you know, having a very clear picture on where we are.
Leading into next year. We also disclosed in our findings about, you know, a few contract, you know, currently scheduled to expire, uh, and, uh, you you can see on our website,
And so if you take out those expiration contracts, that would be the starting point for next year, assuming, you know, the current contract expired. But as you know, we always try to get them renewed and very often. We are successful to get them renewed before the expired. So that's sort of the stepping function uh, for starting of next year.
and normally,
Again from historically.
Larry Chen: Like this time with Samsung, there was like, you know, 40, no, more than 40, 60% growth or whatever with the recurring quarterly recurring revenue at the renewal of Samsung. What happens normally with renewals? Yeah, totally accurate. It depends on the situation of certain customers. I'll give you a couple of examples here. As you mentioned here, Samsung, the last contract was a very long-term contract, didn't factor in 5G. So this time, through arbitration, we are able to get a 67% increase compared to the prior one. The other example is the Apple contract. As we have discussed before, the previous Apple contract was longer term, but not as long as Samsung. So we renewed the Apple contract in September of 2022, and that contract on average was 15% higher than the prior contract.
When contracts expire and you renew them, is there growth or is there contraction in the contract? Like this time with Samsung, there was like, you know, 40, uh, no, more than 40 or 60% growth or whatever with the recurring rate, uh, quarterly recurring revenue, uh, at the renewal of Samsung. What happens normally with renewals?
Yeah, tacky depends on the situation of certain customer. I'll give you a couple example. Here, as you mentioned here, Samsung, the last contract was very long-term contract did, in fact, in 5G. So this time through arbitration, we are able to get a 67% increase compared to Prior 1.
Larry Chen: So it really depends on the situation, depending on, you know, where the vendor is, how stable their business is, have they increased volume, have they used more of our, you know, technology. it's a combination of different factors, Scott. But based on these two examples here, we do have a success record in, you know, renewing higher value if that's appropriate. Got it. Perfect. Thank you so much.
The other example is the Apple contract. As we have discussed before the previous Apple contract was a longer term but not as long as Samsung. So we renew the Apple contract in September, 202022, and that contract on average was 15% higher than the prior contract.
So it really depends on the situation depending on, you know, where the vendor is uh, how stable their business had the increased volume had, they use more of our you know technology uh it's a combination of different factors talk. Uh but based on those 2 examples here we do have success record in you know renewing and higher value. If that's a property
Got it. Perfect. Thank you so much.
Demi: And that concludes the question and answer session. I would now turn the call back over to Larry Chen, CEO, for closing remarks.
And that concludes the question and
Larry Chen: Thank you, Demi. Before we close, I'd like to thank our employees for their dedication and contribution to InterDigital, as well as our many partners and licensees for a strong quarter. Thank you all to everyone who joined today's call, and we look forward to updating you on our progress next quarter.
I would not turn the call back over to Lan Chen CEO for closing remarks.
Thank you to me, um, before we close, I'd like to thank our employees, for their dedication and contribution to individual, as well as our many partners and licensee for strong quarter.
Thank you all to everyone who joined this call and we look forward to updating you on our progress next quarter.
Demi: This is a conference call. You may now-them.
San Francisco.
Me now, please connect.