Q2 2025 Cooper-Standard Holdings Inc Earnings Call
Relations, please go ahead, sir.
Thanks Sylvie and good morning, everyone.
Thank you for spending some time with us this morning.
The members of our leadership team, who will be speaking with you on the call. This morning are Jeff Edwards, chairman and chief executive officer and John bannis Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer.
Before we begin, I need to remind you that this presentation contains forward-looking statements.
while they are made based on current factual information and certain assumptions and plans that management currently believes to be reasonable,
These statements do involve risks and uncertainty.
For more information on forward-looking statements, we ask that you refer to slide 3 of this presentation and the company statements included in periodic filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
The presentation also contains non-gaap Financial measures, reconciliations of the non-gaap financial measures to their more directly comparable. Gaap measures are included in the appendix to the presentation.
So with those formalities out of the way, I'll now turn the call over to Jeff Edwards.
Thanks, Roger and good morning everyone. And as always, we appreciate the opportunity to review our second quarter results and provide an update on our business and the Outlook
Going forward, to begin on slide 5, I'd like to highlight some second quarter data points that we believe are reflective of our continuing outstanding operational performance.
And our ongoing commitment to our Core Company values.
In terms of operations, and customer service. Some extremely proud to report that we ended the second quarter with a record, 100% of our total 317, customers scorecards for quality and service being green.
This is such an amazing accomplishment frankly and it speaks volumes to the dedication and commitment of our manufacturing teams around the world. It's also an indication of how effective the new digital tools we've deployed in our plants.
Can be at identifying potential challenges and more importantly, enable corrective actions before they become bigger issues.
So who, who a huge? Shout out to our manufacturing leadership. Team, our plant managers and our plant employees for this remarkable result. Thank you all very much.
For new program launches, we continue our outstanding service level with a 97% customer scorecard being green.
Despite increased launch activity as we've discussed.
Frankly, these are amazing operational statistics that reflect our total company commitment to providing the best possible value for our customers, as well as our internal commitment to excellence in all that we do.
Also in our plant operations safety performance continues to be excellent.
during the second quarter, we had a total incident rate of 0.26
reportable incidents per 200,000 hours worked that's well below the world class Benchmark of 0.47.
Even more important, 44 of our plants have maintained a perfect safety record with a total incident rate of 0 for the first half of the year.
Just to frame that that's 75% of all of our production facilities, achieving a perfect safety score. The end demonstrating that our ultimate goal of zero. Safety incidents is certainly achievable
We are proud of the entire global team for their focus and achievement in the most important operating measure for our company.
In terms of cost optimization, we had another solid quarter with our manufacturing and purchasing teams delivering, 25 million of savings through lean initiatives and other cost-saving programs.
In addition, the restructuring and headcount optimization initiative that we implemented beginning in the second quarter of last year has been driving cost savings as we planned.
In the second quarter, that initiative actually yielded, another 4 million in year-over-year savings.
Finally, we're continuing to leverage world-class service, technical capabilities, and our award-winning Innovations to win new business.
During the second quarter of 2025, we were awarded 77 million in net, new business Awards.
And development of new technologies in critical systems for some of their most important vehicle platforms.
Turning to slide 6.
With our product quality and customer service levels at all-time highs our relationships with our customers. Frankly, have never been better.
As a result, we continue to amass an impressive number of important awards from our customers, the latest being the Ford Supplier of the Year.
In addition, we're proud to be selected to collaborate with the Renault group.
On their on blame project.
That's an eco-conscious family demo car that aims to reduce CO2 emissions over its life cycle.
The groundbreaking project integrates 2 of Cooper standards, low carbon high-performance vehicle Innovations.
The flex core thermoplastic body seal, and our flush seal ceiling system.
But more important than Hardware in the trophy case is the way these quality relationships enable us to continue to negotiate and navigate today's business environment.
This has been clearly evident in our recent discussions on tariff impacts, which are now largely complete.
With the most important commercial. Negotiations, now, behind us for the year, importantly, our focus in the second half can be 100% on sustaining our operational excellence and executing our plans to achieve our long-term goals and objectives.
I look forward to speaking more about this in the next few minutes. But for now turn the call over to John to review the financial details of the quarter.
Thanks, Jeff, and good morning, everyone.
In the next few slides, I'll provide some details on our financial results for the quarter and discuss our cash flows, liquidity, and aspects of our capital structure.
On slide 8, we show a summary of our results for the second quarter and first six months of 2025, with comparisons to the same periods last year.
Second quarter 2025 sales were 706 million?
A decrease of 0.3% compared to the second quarter of 2024.
The slight decrease was driven primarily by unfavorable volume and mix including net customer price adjustments.
Partially offset by favorable foreign exchange.
Adjusted ebita on the quarter was 62.8 Million.
An increase of more than 23%, when compared to 50.9%.
Importantly, we're able to drive further margin expansion of 170 basis points versus the same period. A year ago, despite lower sales and production volumes,
On a US, gaap basis. We reported a small net loss of 1.4 million in the second quarter compared to a net loss of 76.2 million in the second quarter of 2024.
Adjusting for restructuring and other items from both periods as well as the related tax impacts.
Adjusted net income for the second quarter of 2025 was positive - 1 million or 6 cents per diluted share.
Compared to adjusted net loss of 11.3 million or 64 cents per diluted share in the second quarter of 2024.
Our Capital expenditures in the second quarter of 2025 totaled, 7.8 million or 1.1% of sales.
Which was lower than the second quarter of last year. Owing largely to the timing of new launch projects.
We continue to exercise discipline around Capital investments in order to maximize our Returns on invested capital.
For the first 6 months of 2025, our sales dipped on unfavorable foreign exchange and slightly lower volume mix and net price adjustments.
But despite lower Revenue, our gross profit margin increased by 200 basis points.
And our adjusted ebita margin improved by 300 basis points, compared to the same 6-month period a year ago.
We were also very pleased to achieve positive, gaap. Net income in the first half of the year, which was an amazing Improvement of more than $6 per share versus last year.
Moving to slide 9.
The charts on slide 9 provide additional insights and quantification of the key factors impacting, our results for the second quarter.
Price adjustments, reduce sales by approximately 7 million compared to the second quarter of 2024.
This impact was partially offset by favorable foreign exchange of approximately dollars.
for adjusted ebit, da lean initiatives and purchasing and Manufacturing contributed, 25 million in savings and cost reductions year rear
Savings from the implementation of restructuring, initiatives added 4 million dollars, compared to the second quarter of 2024.
And favorable, foreign exchange was a Tailwind of approximately 3 million in the quarter.
Partially offsetting, these improvements were 16 million dollars of unfavorable volume and mix including customer price adjustments.
And 6 million dollars in increased costs from higher wages and general inflation.
Moving to slide 10.
On slide 10. We present the same type of year-over-year bridge analysis for the first half of the year.
Sales declined by approximately 122 million or just less than 1% driven primarily by unfavorable foreign exchange.
Adjusted ebit on the first half increased by more than 41 million.
or more than 51%, compared to the first half of 2024,
the Improvement was driven primarily by 45 million of manufacturing and purchasing efficiencies
12 million of restructuring savings.
And 5 million of favorable foreign exchange.
These positive drivers were partially offset by 6 million of unfavorable volume and mix, and approximately 13 million of higher wages and general inflation.
We are pleased with our improving results, in the first half of the year as our focus on controlling costs.
Delivering exceptional performance and the launch of more profitable, programs are having the positive impacts. We had planned and expected.
Despite production volumes being lower than plan expectations.
Moving to slide 11.
Looking at cash flow and liquidity.
Net cash used in operating activities was approximately 16 million dollars in the second quarter of 2025 compared to 12 million in the second quarter of 2024.
Capital spending as mentioned earlier was approximately million dollars in the second quarter resulting in net, free cash outflow of approximately 23 million for the quarter.
This is consistent with the second quarter of last year, despite cash interest paid being more than 14 million higher this year.
We ended the second quarter with a cash balance of approximately 122 million.
Combined with 151 million of availability on our abl facility which remained undone. We had solid, total liquidity of approximately 273 million as of June 30th 2025
Which we believe is sufficient to support the continuing execution of our business plans and profitable growth objectives.
An importantly following the solid results of the first half and considering our current outlook for production volumes in the remainder of the year.
We believe We are on track to achieve positive free cash flow for the full year.
Further, as we continue to focus on de-levering through earnings growth.
Achieving the midpoint of our guidance range for full-year adjusted. Evita combined with our expectations for positive. Free cash flow. Would result in a net leverage ratio below 4 times at the end of this year.
We are pleased that our improving results and solid future prospects are being recognized by our stakeholders.
Including credit rating agencies, such as Moody's who recently upgraded their outlook on Cooper standard from stable to positive.
With respect to our capital structure, we are actively evaluating various options to strengthen our balance sheet and further improve our cash flows.
And our carefully monitoring conditions in the credit markets.
We are optimistic that as we continue to deliver improving results.
We will be able to refinance our first and thirdly notes with more favorable terms and rates.
With that, let me turn it back over to Jeff.
And where we believe these strategies can take us over the next few years. Then I'll wrap up with some comments on our near-term Outlook and our revised guidance for 2025. So if you'd please turn to slide 13,
Our strategies and operating plans are really built around the 4 straight imperatives that you see outlined here on slide 13 and as a global team, we we established this basic framework a couple years ago I guess. And by aligning the companies around these common objectives we've been able to drive significant improvements in virtually every aspect of our business.
and with the improved operating performance and stability of the business,
We have now been able to turn more attention frankly to our longer term planning and the strategies and objectives that that align with that.
So, in that context, we recently asked our 2 product presidents to
work with really the respective teams everywhere in the world to develop these long-term strategies for each of their businesses, that would not only achieve these stated strategic imperatives but
Build on them to take Cooper standard to the next level of value creation that we believe in over the next several years. And as we like to say just around the corner so to speak.
Last month, we presented those exact plans to the board of directors and they certainly expressed enthusiastic support which is exciting.
And so, while we don't have time to go into those details here this morning, obviously, I still think it makes sense to share brief summary on each plan with you.
And that's really just to highlight that presentations of the board, that's just part of our normal business review process and it happens to be the time of year where we do it and it lines up with the the call. So I thought it would make sense. So if we just go to slide 14 and take a look at the ceiling system strategy there,
As the global market leader, our seed, our ceiling system strategy is focused on sustaining. The operational excellence that is reestablished the financial strength of the business and leveraging Global expertise as we all know in our engineering design and Manufacturing. And they've done done a great job to drive profitable growth, that's both in our existing. And in our new markets, uh, great Improvement there. By by that team in our manufacturing facilities, the ceiling, team expects to drive greater efficiencies in both process and asset allocation by utilizing digital tools and those are powered and connected through our Network and supported by artificial intelligence.
Help proprietary Suite of digital tools. We call CS Factory is currently being rolled out in key global locations and that will eventually be expanded and deployed to every 1 of our manufacturing facilities in the world.
They're using digital tools to make the design and validation process for new products faster and more efficient supporting our customers. In developing markets, that tend to have shorter product development Cycles.
Finally, the ceiling team will continue to focus on the voice of the customer, and is quickly bringing additional Innovative products and Technologies to Market that we expect will add value.
For our customers and enable Cooper standard to expand the content per vehicle.
And more importantly market share.
Turning to slide 15.
With over $300 million in new business Awards, since 2023, the sealing business is a good line of sight on new program. Launches
With improved variable contribution. Margins over the extended planning period.
We expect successful. Execution of these plans, including further cost optimization actions will drive Revenue growth of about 6% on average over the next 5 years for our sealing business.
With significant expansion of IBA de margins and return on Capital increasing to approximately 20% by 2030.
Turning to slide 16 and the fluid Handling Systems, strategic plan and some details. So, on slide 16, the fluid handling system strategy certainly looks to unlock the full potential of the organization expanding geographically in in association with our key and our fastest growing customers leveraging. The growth Trends in hybrid vehicles to expand content per vehicle and launching new Innovative products and Technologies including thermal Management Solutions. And the award-winning Eco flow family of products
Expects to continue their Relentless focus on cost optimization and world-class manufacturing execution to drive further margin enhancement.
And if you look at slides 17,
As with the sealing business, the fluid handling business is showing a strong book of new program awards. That is expected to drive both growth and improved profitability over the planning period as programs are launched.
In fact, our Top Line growth is expected to average approximately 8% annually over the next 5 years with our fluid business,
In addition with continued World Class Manufacturing execution and cost optimization ebitda margins. For the fluid handling business are expected to increase to around 16% and return on invested. Capital is expected to approach 30% over that 5-year planning Horizon.
As profits and cash flow improve.
Self-funded, inorganic growth could provide additional opportunities as well.
While we're confident in our abilities to execute our strategic plans and achieve these strategic targets, certainly we're not issuing guidance here. It's too early to consider these 2030 targets, if you will. However, uh, we all know that the challenges the industry has faced with global production volume are still kind of in our face.
Uh but that being said as a company, we're better positioned today than we are. And we have been at other any other time in our company's history to plan, effectively to execute consistently and flawlessly launch, new business, and deliver what we say will do. The other thing I would note here is that with that planning Horizon we didn't assume Really any uptick in the volumes as we've been seeing them over the last few years especially here in the North American Market. I think the maximum volume we use was around 15.3% in that Outlook. So any additional volume increase beyond that, I would certainly be good news to the plan that I just described. Uh, and we all know that the industry volumes have to bounce back here someday, right?
So to conclude our prepared remarks this morning, let me shift Focus to the near-term in our outlook for the rest of 2025.
There is still a lot of uncertainty around the US trade policy and the implementation of tariffs that may impact the Auto industry globally.
Industry production, forecast for the second half of the year have improved slightly, but still remain below where they were coming into the year.
Before trade and tariff policies became a concern.
As for Cooper standard, we've successfully reached agreements with our customers that will allow us to pass through or recover. The majority of all direct tariff impacts on our business
With the conclusion of commercial negotiations, we can focus on execution, as I mentioned earlier in continued, operational excellence, while preparing to be flexible for any changes up, or down in total production volume.
So turning to slide 19, following the first half in which our results, exceeded our plan, and given our continued strong. Operational execution. We feel confident in raising our full-year guidance for adjusted Eva de and you can see that on the table.
The waterfall chart on the right describes. The drivers for our outlook for the full year. 2025 versus 2024 actuals.
Improvements in manufacturing and purchasing are the biggest drivers, but production volume, including product. Mix remains most likely variable over the next 5 months.
as always, we want to thank our customers and all of our stakeholders for your continued confidence and support as we continue to execute our plans to drive further operating improvements accelerated profitable growth
And sustainable long-term value.
This concludes our prepared remarks, so let's move into Q&A.
Thank you.
ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question,
Followed by 1 on your touch transform and if you're using a speaker-phone, please pick up the handset before entering your request. And to withdraw from the question queue, press start to 1 moment, please, while we assemble the queue for questions,
In our first question, it comes from Kurt Lit at Imperial Capital. Please go ahead.
Hello, Jeff.
John Roger, thank you for the call.
Good morning. Morning Kirk
and, and thank you for the um,
The 2030 targets. These are really interesting. Um,
uh,
On the ceiling side.
Looks like there's 400 million of incremental revenue of which 300 million is net. New business? Is that, am I reading that correctly?
Uh, yeah, I think your, uh, your math is right?
Okay, and then the rest looks like the other $100 million is some modest increase in production.
And I don't know, maybe pricing or something mixed or something like that.
This is Jeff, as I mentioned the, uh, the volume assumption that we used when we built that, uh, strategy that we reviewed with the board here. Recently, we, we used snps numbers from last year that they had forecast out through 26 and 27. So in our 2526 and 27 business plan, uh, those were the I would say the the
I want to call it the morticians forecast, but I guess I just did. So as it as it relates to um, any increase above that 15.3 million units here in North America. Anyway, uh, it's it's pretty much flat uh, so we didn't we didn't uh, you know, bump up any, any numbers here with uh, with higher volumes like we've seen normally in, in our industry, we kept it as the forecast from S&P suggested uh out through the the 28th. I think it represented a couple percent growth each each year. So not much at all.
Okay, great. Thank you. And and the math on the the fluid side, um, 600 million of incremental Revenue. Um,
Is, are you are you sharing how much net new business is in that number?
We have, we have uh, broken out, uh, net new business for both of these, uh, product groups. Since we, since we started, uh, managing the business this way, and Reporting it externally. So yeah, each quarter, I think you have, uh, not only what we've been booking, but also the powertrain, uh, that aligns with it. We've also given you some content per vehicle, uh, data points that for each 1 of those, whether it's a nice hybrid or electric vehicle, we've talked about the, the increase in content. We also last quarter talked about the vertical integration that, that starting to come our way with uh, with overall system integration opportunities that our fluid teams are are driving. So uh, what we know of that uh, is, is included in the in that Outlook. But I would tell you that as it relates to the vertical integration piece, uh, and and how that will drive content per vehicle that's not in there. Uh, and if there's any consolidation opportunities within that, that business,
Over time, as I mentioned, from an inorganic point of view, none of that is reflected in those numbers. So, this is sort of what's been going on within the business and how we've been booking business. The content that we know of today is reflected in there, so it isn't any.
Uh, real real crazy kind of projections that that we put into that plan uh as as the industry adjusts to less EV and more hybrid, those numbers actually will get quite a bit better.
Yeah, that's helpful. Thank you. So if I were if I were
um, is it, is it fair to say that that if, if there's a 100 million of other
In the ceiling, there's say $100 million of other in fluids. So you've got $500 million in net new business and fluid over the next 5 years.
That's that's fine. You can say that.
Yeah, okay. Well that's so 80% of the incremental billion is is booked
That's correct.
Wow. Okay. And the margin expansion I guess in part is based on.
The optimization of the footprint, can you maybe elaborate on that and how?
In a, in a, in a tariff environment, how you decide you know, what's what's optimal?
Yeah. So, as as we've talked, um,
We, we have a very, uh, detailed.
Those improvements from a cost point of view come into our business. Obviously, that improves margins on, on the business that we've booked. Uh, but also pricing is a, is a big part of it. We're, we're managing that very closely, uh, obviously the changes that occur in our product tend to be late in the cycle. And so those, those increases, uh, also are very important because typically costs are going up, so prices have to go up. Uh, we're just much more disciplined around all of it. So, I, I would tell you that our forecasting, uh, Curtis improved immensely and, and not just within the the business year, like we're talking about here in, in 2025 that in 26, 27/28 and then out there in 29 and 30, uh, because our our business is sourced to us so far in advance, we have a pretty good idea of what it is and what the prices are, you know, 3 years out. And so um it's got some pretty good, uh,
Uh, accuracy if you will even when we get out into that, fourth and fifth year.
Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you. Um,
uh and then I guess lastly if I if I just you know kind of backing into the math here,
Uh, your forecasting at the midpoint just Eva 235 for fiscal 25.
And something north of 500 for fiscal 30.
Yeah, that's your math.
Correct. Okay. Wow.
Fantastic. Thank you very much.
You're welcome.
Once again, ladies and gentlemen, a reminder to please press star 1. If you have any questions in our next question, will be from Michael Ward at Citi research. Please go ahead.
Thanks very much. Good morning, everyone.
Hey Mike. Um, may I just maybe follow up on that? Do you have any lines currently today, whether in fluid or sealing, that are at the types of margins you're looking at as a guidepost for 2030?
Yes.
You do, okay? So it's not like it's unattainable. You you you have a way to get our path to get. Yeah, as I as I mentioned, Mike, the uh, the programs that were booking right now that we don't launch for 3 years, right? Uh those are already achieving the type of hurdle rates that that we have in the in the plan. Um, the only thing that wouldn't be in there is this this uh, hybrid, uh, vertical integration for fluid. That's really going to drive some significant content per vehicle. We know that's coming, uh, we have some experience in that already but we didn't we didn't purposely uh book any any
Of that in these numbers so that would all be upside as it happens. And I just felt that you know, to keep it a little bit conservative at this stage until we know more about what those numbers will look like even though I know they're going to be better, it's not even reflected. So there's there's upside in fluid just based on how the market shift will go from Ice uh, to hybrid to, to EV for our fluid business. And, as I mentioned to you many times in the past, because of the way we're vertically integrating there and getting involved with more systems integration, that's going to drive higher numbers for us to and, and basically, that that forecast 5 year forecast, for fluid has very little of that in there.
That's interesting. The if you look back over the last couple of years, there are a couple of big things. You did, your commercial agreements.
Allowed. You gave you the flexibility to get some of the stuff done in the Tariff environment. Correct.
And then you have the structuring actions. It looks like, if I'm reading your walk from the first half and second half.
Um, you have a a similar volume impact in the second half.
And it's likely that volume is going to be flat or higher.
So you know, if I'm going through this correctly, you have an outside shot of getting pretty damn close to the 10%.
Margins by 4Q your exit rate. Hope is, is that right?
That's correct. Mike, I, I still, uh, I'm holding to that. Uh, you know, we we've even used as you just mentioned the, the fourth quarter, it's not a secret, the fourth quarter volume, forecast that everybody's using from S&P are still rather depressing and depressed. Um, and and I don't, I don't expect that, uh, to actually occur based on what we're seeing already and releases, but, you know, we we tether off to that each each quarter. So it is what it is. Uh, but I would expect that uh, that we'll have some upside there to your, to your point. I'd be shocked if we don't but you know that that's their numbers right now.
pictures, um, they're material leak higher than what IHS is currently using from what I can tell, looking at the IHS data
Yeah, that's correct. And we've got we've got releases right now through, you know, into October already. Uh, so we we have a pretty good idea of what what's going to transpire. I mean third quarter we have we know what it is and and forth is starting to, to come up from what, what was out there by these agencies and so I, yeah, but we didn't forecast it because that's not how we normally do it. No, no. I think that's the right thing to do and I think IHS will move them higher over the coming over the next 2 weeks probably. Um, it's gone when when I look at um the cash flow balance sheet. How how much cash restructuring was there whether in 2 Q or first half?
Uh, cash. Restructuring Mike. Give me a give me a second. Uh it wasn't considerable. I think it was less than 10 million bucks but we'll get you. The exact number and the first it'll be in the queue. Right. But it's about 10 million. So if I take that out then we're looking at a working capital use of about 75 million in the first half.
That should unwind in the second half completely or will some of that dragged into 26.
No, we we think it, it unwinds, completely it. It's important to keep perspective that we also paid, uh, 55 million bucks in in cash interest in June and we'll do that. Do that again in December. But but despite that um, you know, 10 115 million dollars, all in of of cash interest, uh we do expect positive free cash flow for the year, so much of the working capital you're pointing to will unwind and we think that, uh, that'll be a Tailwind in the second half. It it, the normal seasonality is is such that we we use, uh, cash in the first half, we start generating positive cash and and Q3, and Q4. And and this year's Cadence looks no different than that.
And if you are successfully refinancing the person, third liens, what type of rate reduction can we look for? Particularly, if we got a rate reduction in September.
Yeah, um, we're uh, we're, we're reading the tea leaves there. Um, you know, our our trajectory and, and the, the improvements we're making. I kind of alluded it to it in, um, in my prepared remarks, you know, we're getting recognized for that Mike. So we're kind of on the cusp of um, you know, ratings inflection point. You know, I appreciate the C rating. It it Triple C rating. It's more much more costly than a single B. And we're kind of uh, you know operating in in having that trajectory with that positive outlook towards towards a single B territory. So uh, we'd
Like to think there's a, there's an improvement. Uh, but how much that that will be, uh, remains to be seen based on the market conditions that you referred to. And that's why we're kind of, you know, working working ahead and, uh, with our, uh, banking Partners to kind of put a road map together to see when it makes sense, to go to market and and how good, um, the the Step Up can be.
I mean, are we talking 12,300 basis points—that type of improvement?
Well, that's the range. Uh I guess you could say from a from a Triple C to a single B but
Not all single B. Uh credits are the same and pay the same rate. So it's it's uh the proverbial answer. Is it depends.
That's the beauty of the debt market.
Thank you very much.
Nicely done. Okay, Mike. Thanks, Mike.
Thank you. Our next question, will be from Ben Briggs at stonex Financial. Please go ahead.
Please go ahead Ben, unmute your line.
sorry, I was
Um so uh yeah, good morning guys. Thank you for taking the call. Congratulations on the quarter. Um and on the guidance uh a lot of mine got answered but quick 1 here. Um it you know just can you provide some more detail on that uh on that use of cash for working capital?
Capital this quarter and uh and how you see that unwinding in the second half.
We're back up to 371 uh, right now as of June. So that's more the the normal level and when you had the significant over-performance on on collections at year, end last year as well as our typical factoring program that that adds liquidity to us, you know, bringing that down to to 310. But now back up to 371 that that's 60 million dollar outflow. Or so, is the biggest component, I think, uh, inventory and, and, and accounts payable net each other out. But, uh, that's the biggest driver. So as we we continue to, to look to um, unwind working capital, we still have got improvements to make on all metrics or all line items between now and the end of the year and you'll see a normalization of that going forward.
All right, that's very helpful. Thanks guys. And uh, congratulations you
All right. Ben thanks.
It appears that there are no more questions. I would like to turn the call back over to Roger Hendrickson.
Okay, thanks everybody. We appreciate your engagement, your questions. And if there are other questions that come up later in the day that you,
Would like to have some clarity on, please feel free to give me a call until then uh we appreciate your joining today and and you can disconnect. Thank you.
Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, this does indeed conclude your conference call for today. Once again, thank you for attending. At this time, we do please ask that you disconnect your lines and enjoy your weekend.