Q2 2025 Sunrise Communications AG Earnings Call
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Speaker #2: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Sunrise Q2 2025 Financial Results Conference Call and Live Webcast. I am Matilde, the Chorus Call operator. I would like to remind you that all participants will be in listen-only mode, and the conference is being recorded.
Matilde: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Sunrise second quarter 2025 financial results conference call and live webcast. I am Matilde, the chorus call operator. I would like to remind you that all participants will be in listen-only mode, and the conference is being recorded. The presentation will be followed by a Q&A session. You can register for questions at any time by pressing star and one on your telephone. For operator assistance, please press star and zero. The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. Page two of the presentation details the company's safe harbor statement regarding forward-looking statements. Today's presentation may include forward-looking statements within the banning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including Sunrise's expectations with respect to its outlook and future growth prospects and other information and statements that are not historical fact.
Speaker #2: The presentation will be followed by a Q&A session. You can register for questions at any time by pressing Star N1 on your telephone. For operator assistance, please press Star N0.
Speaker #2: The conference must not be recorded for publication or broadcast. Page 2 of the presentation details the company's safe harbor statement regarding forward-looking statements. Today's presentation may include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including Sunrise's expectations with respect to its outlook and future growth prospects, as well as other information and statements that are not historical facts.
Speaker #2: These forward-looking statements involve certain risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these statements. These risks include those detailed in Sunrise's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its most recently filed 20-F.
Matilde: These forward-looking statements involve certain risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from those expressed or implied by these statements. These risks include those detailed in Sunrise's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including its most recently filed 20F. Sunrise disclaims any obligation to update any of these forward-looking statements to reflect any change in its expectations or in the conditions on which any such statement is based. At this time, it's my pleasure to hand over to Alex Herman, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Speaker #2: Sunrise disclaims any obligation to update any of these forward-looking statements to reflect any change in its expectations or in the conditions on which any such statement is based.
Speaker #2: At this time, it is my pleasure to hand over to Alex Herman, Vice President, Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Speaker #3: Thank you, operator, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today. I would like to welcome you to our second quarter 2025 results call.
Alex Herman: Thank you, operator, and good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for joining us today. I would like to welcome you to our second quarter 2025 results call. With me today are André Krause, our CEO, as well as Yannick Routier, our CFO. As per usual, we will start the call with a presentation that you also find online, also on the web, which will then be followed by a Q&A session. Let me now hand over to André. Please go ahead.
Speaker #3: With me today are Andr Krause, our CEO, as well as Jany Fruytier, our CFO. As per usual, we'll start the call with a presentation that you can also find online, which will then be followed by a Q&A session.
Speaker #3: Let me now hand over to Andre. Please go ahead.
Speaker #4: Thanks, Alex, and good morning, everyone. I'll kick off the presentation with a quick overview of the key takeaways of today's presentation. So, firstly, operationally, we have switched off our 3G network and have become the first mobile operator to switch off 2G and 3G, moving to the most modern 4G and 5G SA technology on our entire network.
Andre Krause: Thanks, Alex, and good morning, everyone. I will kick off the presentation with a quick overview of the key takeaways of today's presentation. Firstly, operationally, we have switched off our 3G network and have become the first mobile operator that has switched off 2G and 3G and is moving to the most modern 4G and 5G SA technology on our entire network. We also have launched a number of new product offerings. We have refreshed and expanded our Yellow portfolio, and we have completed the UPC customer base migration. Given the fact that we did a price increase in the second quarter, we have also reduced our commercial activity a bit, and hence, we have seen some softer net adds in the second quarter, while at the same time, the ARCO trends have been improving.
Speaker #4: We have also launched a number of new product offerings; we have refreshed and expanded our Yellow portfolio, and we have completed the UPC customer base migration.
Speaker #4: Given the fact that we did a price increase in the second quarter, we have also reduced our commercial activity a bit. We have seen some softer net adds in the second quarter, while at the same time, the ARPU trends have been improving.
Speaker #4: Secondly, financially, we are seeing the Q2 revenue trend sequentially improving. And, of course, that is driven also by the price increase, continued momentum and growth on the B2B side, and, I would say, a temporary recovery on hardware sales. Given the fact that through the 3G switch-off, some customers needed to switch devices, that gave a bit of an uptick in hardware demand.
Andre Krause: Secondly, financially, we are seeing the Q2 revenue trend sequentially improving, and of course, that is driven also by the price increase, continued momentum and growth on the B2B side, and a, I would say, temporary recovery on hardware sales, given the fact also that through the 3G switch-off, some customers needed to switch devices, and that gave a bit of an uptick on the hardware demand. EBITDA improved to 1.9% year-on-year growth, also helped by further cost optimizations that we could lend. On the back of the financial trajectory, we are confirming our guidance today, also including a DPS growth of 2.7% for the year. Thirdly, also, we have been able to refinance an existing term loan and have brought in a new 550 million senior secured note, which is further optimizing our average cost of debt.
Speaker #4: EBITDA improved to 1.9% year-on-year growth, also helped by further cost optimizations that we could lend. On the back of the financial trajectory, we are confirming our guidance today, also including a DPS growth of 2.7% for the year.
Speaker #4: Thirdly, we have also been able to refinance an existing term loan and have brought in a new $550 million senior secured note, which has further optimized our average cost of debt.
Speaker #4: And also, according to our plan, we have switched off our ADS listing on the 15th, on the NASDAQ on the 15th of August. And we are continuing to follow our path to stop the sponsored ADS program by mid of November this year.
Andre Krause: Also, according to our plan, we have switched off our ADS listing on the NASDAQ on the 15th of August, and we are continuing to follow our path to stop the sponsored ADS program by mid of November this year. Now with that, let me move to a bit more detail on the commercial performance, and let me give one sentence before I jump onto that slide because the slide is talking about the mobile market as such. On the fixed side, we are seeing on the competitive environment pretty stable evolution, so no real movements on promotional activities or on price points, and the established, I would say, market is carrying on as we have seen it in the previous quarters. On mobile, we wanted to show because it is always an important question that you raise, what is the competitive environment and where are we going?
Speaker #4: Now, with that, let me move to a bit more detail on the commercial performance. And let me give one sentence before I jump onto that slide because the slide is talking about the mobile market as such.
Speaker #4: On the fixed side, we are seeing a pretty stable evolution in the competitive environment, so there are no real movements in promotional activities or on price points.
Speaker #4: And the established, I would say, market is carrying on as we have seen it in the previous quarters. On mobile, we wanted to show because it is always an important question that you raise: what is the competitive environment and where are we going?
Speaker #4: We wanted to share our perspective on how we look at the mobile market at this moment in time. Generally, we see a three-tier market structure that has established itself.
Andre Krause: We wanted to share what's our perspective on how we look at the mobile market at this moment in time. Generally, we see a three-tier market structure that has established itself. We see a premium segment that is the largest segment in the market, covering 50% or slightly above of the customers, has fully integrated high-quality offerings and individualized services. It has a very broad range of products and services that customers are receiving on those offers. In this market, the price points are somewhat higher, usually starting above 40 Swiss francs, and what we are seeing is an increasingly rational behavior if it comes to promotional activities. The main brands active in this is, of course, our main brand, Sunrise, and we also see mainly Swisscom operating in here.
Speaker #4: We see a premium segment that is the largest segment in the market, covering 50% or slightly above of the customers. It has fully integrated high-quality offerings and individualized services, providing a very broad range of products and services that customers are receiving on those offers.
Speaker #4: And in this market, the price points are somewhat higher, usually starting above 40 Swiss francs. What we are seeing is an increasingly rational behavior when it comes to promotional activities.
Speaker #4: The main brands active in this sector are, of course, our main brand, Sunrise, and we are also seeing Swisscom operating here. We see liquidity in this segment slightly reducing, mainly due to the fact that customers have already benefited in the past years from substantial price improvements.
Andre Krause: We see liquidity in this segment slightly reducing, mainly on the back of the fact that customers have already benefited in the past years from substantial price improvements, and hence, their personal motivation to go to a further improvement is limited. So they are more valuing the benefit of having the broad range of services and the quality of services instead of necessarily just a lower-priced simple offer. On the smart shopper segment, where we are operating with our brand Yellow, and we see also our competitors, mainly Salt and Wingo, price range is probably in the range of 20 to 40 Swiss francs. We are continuing to see a very promotional-driven market, but in that pricing range, so we are not seeing the offerings in this range going lower than the 20 Swiss francs at this moment in time.
Speaker #4: Enhanced personal motivation to pursue further improvement is limited, so they are valuing the benefits of having a broad range of services and the quality of services, instead of necessarily just a lower-priced simple offer.
Speaker #4: On the smart shopper segment, where we are operating with our brand Yellow, we also see our competitors, mainly Salt and Wingo. The price range is probably in the range of 20 to 40 Swiss francs.
Speaker #4: We are continuing to see a very promotional-driven market, but in that pricing range, we are not seeing the offerings in this range going lower than 20 Swiss francs at this moment in time.
Speaker #4: We see liquidity slightly moderating because we are also seeing a budget segment underneath this smart shopper segment, which has a size of roughly 40% of the market, based on our expectations.
Andre Krause: We see liquidity slightly moderating because we are also seeing a budget segment underneath this smart shopper segment, which has a size of roughly 40% of the market from our expectation. We see a budget segment underneath that has established and is around at 10% at today. Here we see price points that are ranging between 10 and 20 Swiss francs for typical, I would say, Swiss flat rates, but also very reduced offerings in range, also compared to the smart shopper segment, where we do see a broader range of offers, also fixed and mobile offerings, whereas we do see in the budget segment simple tariffs that are only focused on mobile only, usually also only with an online presence and without any physical assistance to customers. Why is this important? Number one, because we overall are seeing that the market is having less liquidity.
Speaker #4: And we see a budget segment underneath that has established and is around 10% today. Now, here we see price points that are ranging between 10 and 20 Swiss francs for typical, I would say, Swiss flat rates, but also very reduced offerings in range compared to the smart shopper segment, where we do see a broader range of offers, both fixed and mobile offerings. Whereas we do see in the budget segment simple tariffs that are only focused on mobile only, usually also only with an online presence and without any physical assistance to customers.
Speaker #4: Now, why is this important? Number one, because we overall are seeing that the market is having less liquidity, and as I said, we think this is driven by the fact that customers have enjoyed substantial price improvements over time.
Andre Krause: As I said, we think this is driven by the fact that customers have enjoyed substantial price improvements over time. Let us not forget, the average household income in Switzerland is double the size of Germany at around 9,000 Swiss francs. Hence, the reality for Swiss households is that a price that is in the premium segment, like 40 or above Swiss francs, is already a pretty decent offering. So if customers are happy, the necessity to improve has substantially reduced over the last couple of years. We are seeing in this segment liquidity reducing. We do see that the smart shopper segment is increasingly attacked because the smart shopper segment, of course, has more price-sensitive customers.
Speaker #4: Let's not forget, the average household income in Switzerland has doubled that of Germany, at around 9,000 Swiss francs. The enhanced reality for Swiss households is that a price in the premium segment, like 40 Swiss francs or above, is already a pretty decent offering. So, if customers are happy, the necessity to improve has substantially reduced over the last couple of years.
Speaker #4: So, we are seeing in this segment liquidity reducing. We do see that the smart shopper segment is increasingly attacked because the smart shopper segment, of course, has more price-sensitive customers.
Speaker #4: Hence, customers are rather moving from the smart shopper segment to the budget segment. While the smart shopper segment is a bit fueled by the premium segment, that's kind of the evolution that we are seeing.
Andre Krause: Hence, customers are rather moving from the smart shopper segment to the budget segment, while the smart shopper segment is a bit fueled by the premium segment, but that is kind of the evolution that we are seeing. Overall, as I said, liquidity reducing. Most liquidity in the market is probably sitting in the budget segment, where we also see a lot of activities going on. We at Sunrise feel that we are very well positioned with our multi-brand strategy, and that allows us really to compete and tap into the liquidity that does exist across the segments. Hence, we think in this market structure and in the competitive environment that we are seeing, we will be able to compete well and also drive our top line going forward. With that, let me talk about some of the commercial launches that we had in the second quarter.
Speaker #4: Overall, as I said, liquidity is reducing. Most liquidity in the market is probably sitting in the budget segment, where we are also seeing a lot of activities going on.
Speaker #4: Now, we at Sunrise feel that we are very well positioned with our multi-brand strategy. This allows us to really compete and tap into the liquidity that does exist across the segments.
Speaker #4: Enhanced, we think in this market structure, and in the competitive environment that we are seeing, we will be able to compete well and also drive our top line going forward.
Speaker #4: Now, with that, let me talk about some of the commercial launches that we had in the second quarter. We already talked about our new SwissConnect portfolio that we launched at the beginning of Q2 in our Q1 results.
Andre Krause: We already talked about our new SwissConnect portfolio that we launched at the beginning of Q2 in our Q1 results. That, of course, is an important launch that we did, which gave more roaming inclusions to all of the mobile tariffs on the Sunrise side. We have added now in the quarter also our first insurance product, Travel and Cyber Insurance. This is at this moment exclusively sold to our existing customers, so we are a bit, if you want, in soft launch mode still. We are not providing those insurances ourselves, but we have collaborations with expert insurance providers, which are on the back end providing those services. At this moment, we had a good start, but I would say also the volumes, given the fact that it was kind of a soft launch to our own customers, have been limited at this moment in time.
Speaker #4: That, of course, is an important launch that we did, which gave more roaming inclusions to all of the mobile tariffs on the Sunrise side.
Speaker #4: We have added, in this quarter, our first insurance products: Travel and Cyber Insurance. At this moment, they are exclusively sold to our existing customers, so we are a bit, if you want, in soft launch mode still.
Speaker #4: We are not providing those insurances ourselves, but we have collaborations with expert insurance providers who are on the backend providing those services. At this moment, we had a good start, but I would say also the volumes, given the fact that it was kind of a soft launch to our own customers, have been limited at this moment in time.
Speaker #4: On the yellow side, we have not only refreshed but also expanded our product portfolio. We now have more roaming plans that allow us to cover the segment needs of the smart shoppers quite a bit more.
Andre Krause: On the Yellow side, we have not only refreshed but also expanded our product portfolio. We have now more roaming plans that allow us to cover the segment needs of the smart shoppers quite a bit more. We have also increased our top speeds on the fixed side to 2 gig, and also on the 5G side, customers have access to the 5G network. We also added a smartwatch option, so with that, we feel that we are well positioned to cover all of the segments need on the smart shopper side. Also on B2B, as you know, an important segment if it comes to growth for us, we have improved our SME portfolio with a number of packages that allow customers to have not only connectivity but also having access to ICT services like cybersecurity. We have brought in most modern technologies also like cloud calling.
Speaker #4: We have also increased our top speeds on the fixed side to 2 Gig, and on the 5G side, customers have access to the 5G network.
Speaker #4: We also added a smartwatch option so that we feel that we are well positioned to cover all of the segments' needs on the smart shopper side.
Speaker #4: Also, on B2B, as you know, an important segment if it comes to growth for us, we have improved our SME portfolio with a number of packages that allow customers to have not only connectivity, but also having access to ICT services like cybersecurity, we have brought in most modern technologies also like cloud calling, so with that, I think we have a well-rounded offering now for the SME side and that will allow us also to drive further growth in the B2B segment in the quarters to come.
Andre Krause: With that, I think we have a well-rounded offering now for the SME side, and that will allow us also to drive further growth in the B2B segment in the quarters to come. I would also flash a light on the already yesterday announced prolongation of our hockey rights, and I would say that was kind of the final step, if you want, on the strategic intent that we had when we launched My Sports back in 2016 and 2017. At that moment in time, the sports rights were largely exclusively held by Swisscom, and hence, because of the exclusivity that Swisscom pursued, gave them the opportunity to drive their broadband growth on the back of the exclusive sports rights.
Speaker #4: Now, I would also like to shine a light on the already announced prolongation of our hockey rights. I would say that was kind of the final step, if you want, on the strategic intent that we had when we launched MySports back in 2016 and 2017.
Speaker #4: At that moment in time, the sports rights were largely exclusively held by Swisscom. Hence, because of the exclusivity that Swisscom pursued, they had the opportunity to drive their broadband growth on the back of these exclusive sports rights.
Speaker #4: So the launch at that point in time was intended to break that exclusivity, which ultimately has now come full circle, because in the meantime, we have also seen verdicts from the Swiss courts that prevent exclusivity on the sports side.
Andre Krause: The launch at that point in time was intended to break that exclusivity, which ultimately has now come full circle because in the meantime, we have seen also verdicts from the Swiss courts that prevent exclusivity on the sports side, number one. Number two, with the sliver of sports rights that we have, the hockey, which is the second most important sport in Switzerland, allows us to actually well balance the situation that we have. Hence, we now are selling all of the sports rights through our channels, not only hockey, but also the blue packages that include all of the football rights, while we at the same time also selling My Sports to Swisscom customers as well as to Salt customers. With that, I think the situation is now that the sports rights are not preventing customers from choosing a Sunrise broadband connection, and that was the strategic intent.
Speaker #4: Number one, number two, with the sliver of sports rights that we have, the hockey, which is the second most important sport in Switzerland, allows us to actually well balance the situation that we have. Hence, we are now selling all of the sports rights through our channels, not only hockey, but also the blue packages that include all of the football rights. At the same time, we are also selling MySports to Swisscom customers as well as to Salt customers.
Speaker #4: So with that, I think the situation is now that the sports rights are not preventing customers from choosing a Sunrise broadband connection, and that was a strategic intent.
Speaker #4: Now, the prolongation in this context is important because it has allowed us to improve the financial situation. As the rides went somewhat cheaper, and from the season 2027/28, where this will become effective, this will allow us to make the MySports business a prospectively profitable business.
Andre Krause: Now, the prolongation in this context is important because it allowed us to improve also the financial situation as the rights went somewhat cheaper. From the season 2027/2028, when this will become effective, this will allow us to make the My Sports business a perspectively profitable business, which I think hence is not only a strategic exercise anymore, but it is a real business that makes sense for us. Hence, we are happy that we can secure the rights up until 2035. Let me talk also about another very important strategic achievement on our mobile infrastructure. I said it at the beginning already, with the 3G switch-off, which ultimately two days ago, where we switched off the last region, we have an exclusively 4G and 5G SA-enabled network. With that, we are able to also move frequency and spectrum to the 4G and 5G sites that we have.
Speaker #4: Which I think, hence, this is not only a strategic exercise anymore, but it's a real business that makes sense for us. We are happy that we can secure the rides up until 2035.
Speaker #4: Now, let me talk also about another very important strategic achievement. On our mobile infrastructure, I said at the beginning already, with the 3G switch-off, which ultimately occurred two days ago when we switched off the last region, we have an exclusively 4G and 5G SA enabled network.
Speaker #4: Now, with that, we are able to also move frequency and spectrum to the 4G and 5G sites that we have. As we told you already in Q1, we have, since Q1, a fully 5G SA-enabled network in Switzerland.
Andre Krause: As we told you already in Q1, we have since Q1 already a fully 5G SA-enabled network in Switzerland, which is now, I would say, the broadest coverage in any given country in Europe if it comes to 5G SA. It is the most modern network as it is not customers holding back on any 2G or 3G experience. The project was pretty brave because at the beginning of the year, we had around 120,000, 130,000 customers still using 3G devices. There was a lot of activity necessary to enable this switch-off, which has worked out very well. I am happy that we really conducted the exercise because we are now in a very strong position. We already have 350,000 customers that have the devices and the right product enablement to give them access to 5G SA. We have seen real-time data on how the performance improvements are looking like.
Speaker #4: Which is now, I would say, the broadest coverage in any given country in Europe when it comes to 5G SA. And it's the most modern network, as it's not customers holding back on any 2G or 3G experience.
Speaker #4: The project was pretty brave because, at the beginning of the year, we had around 120,000 to 130,000 customers still using 3G devices. So, there was a lot of activity necessary to enable this switch-off, which has worked out very well.
Speaker #4: And I'm happy that we really conducted the exercise because we are now in a very strong position. We already have 350,000 customers that have the devices and the right product enablement to give them access to 5G SA.
Speaker #4: And we have seen real-time data on how the performance improvements are looking like. What we are really seeing is a 15 to 20 percent performance improvement on the customers that are using the network.
Andre Krause: What we are really seeing is 15% to 20% performance improvement on the customers that are using the network. I have to say I am really proud and I am really happy for our network teams under the leadership of our CTO, Elmar Grause. This was a milestone achievement. I think, as one expert that looked at the evolution told us, we are probably 5 to 10 years ahead of many other operators in Europe with the state of mobile network that we have achieved right now. Of course, this is now an important enabler, and we will fully commercialize the abilities of this network and also incremental innovative services in the quarters to come. With that, let me also summarize what are the commercial results. Where on the net add side, as I said already, we have seen some softer evolution as the prior year.
Speaker #4: So I have to say I'm really proud, and I'm really happy for our network teams under the leadership of our CTO, Elmar Grasser. This was a milestone achievement, and I think as one expert who looked at the evolution told us, we are probably five to ten years ahead of many other operators in Europe with the state of the mobile network that we have achieved right now.
Speaker #4: Now, of course, this is now an important enabler, and we will fully commercialize the abilities of this network and also incremental innovative services in the quarters to come.
Speaker #4: With that, let me also summarize what the commercial results are. Where, on the net adds side, as I said already, we have seen some software evolution compared to the prior year.
Andre Krause: However, we have seen a sequential improvement quarter on quarter to 18,000 net adds on the mobile side, zero net adds on the internet side, which was largely driven by lower market liquidity, but also price increase-related incremental churn and some of the final phase out of the UPC customer migration that, as I have said, we have concluded at the second quarter of this year. Given the fact that the market is giving lower liquidity at this moment in time, we expect also that the net adds in the final quarters of this year, will probably be moderate following the lower liquidity. Our fixed mobile convergence has further increased by 1.4% to 58.5%, and we expect that to further improve.
Um, with that, let me also summarize what the commercial results are. Um, where on the net at sites, as I said already, we have seen some software evolution as the prior year. However, we have seen a sequential improvement, um, quarter on quarter, um, to 18,000. That is on the mobile side.
And zero net ads on the internet side, which was largely driven by lower market liquidity, but also price increases related to incremental churn and some of the final phase-out of the UPC customer migration that, as I have said, we have concluded at the second quarter of this year.
Now, given the fact that the market, um, is giving lower liquidity at this moment in time. We expect also that the, uh, net adds in the quarters in the final quarters of this year, will probably be moderate, um, following the lower liquidity.
Andre Krause: If we look at ARPUs, then on the mobile ARPU side, we have seen a year-over-year decline of 1.6%, but a sequential improvement on the back of the subscription revenues benefiting from the price rises. However, this trend is also continuing to be partially offset by revenue decline that is driven by reduced roaming usage as we are providing more of the roaming services included in the tariffs. On the fixed ARPU side, we see also an upward trend as the full impact of the price increases is kicking in, and also we see a sequentially declining impact from the right pricing effect of the UPC customer-based migration. We, however, also see a continuous growth in the mix of our Flanker brand, which is to a certain extent also counteracting that trend.
Our fixed mobile convergence has further increased by 1.4% to 58.5%, and we expect that to further improve. If we look at our pools, then on the mobile app side, we have seen a year-over-year decline of 1.6%, but a sequential improvement on the back of the subscription revenues benefiting from the price rises. However, this trend is also continuing to be partially offset by revenue decline that is driven by reducing.
Roaming usage is increasing as we are providing more roaming services included in the tariffs.
On the fixed-up side, we see also an upward trend as the full impact of the price increases is kicking in. Additionally, we see a subsequently declining impact from the right pricing effect of the UPC customer base migration.
Andre Krause: That is my part of the presentation, and with that, I hand over to Yannick Routier for the detailed financials.
Um, we, however, also see a continuous growth in the mix of our flanker brand, which is, to a certain extent, also counteracting that trend.
Yannick Routier: Thank you, André, and also welcome from my side, everyone. Let me start with a quick overview. As always, I will focus mostly on Q2 and make some comments around our H1 performance before then going in deeper into the individual elements of the P&L. We will give you an update on our guidance that André referred to, and I will talk a little bit about the ADS progress and the next steps. Before we go there, an overview with revenue down 0.8%, yet significantly stabilizing versus what we saw in Q1. That is on the back of the residential, fixed, and mobile P&Ls, which are sequentially improving on the back of the price increase, the temporary recovery of the hardware sales. André spoke about it in relation to the 3G, and also continued growth on the B2B service revenue.
So that is, um, my part of the presentation, and with that, I hand over to Yanni for the detailed financials. Thank you. Andre, and also welcome from my side, everyone. Uh, let me start with a quick overview. As always, I will focus mostly on Q2 and make some comments around our H1 performance before then going deeper into the individual elements of the P&L. I'll give you an update on our guidance that Andre referred to, and I'll talk a little bit about the ads progress and the next steps.
But before we go there, an overview with Revenue down. Oh, 8% yet significantly stabilizing versus what we saw in q1, that is on the back of the residential fixed and mobile, uh, p&ls, uh, which are sequentially improving on the back of the price, increase the temporary, um, recovery of the, the hardware sales on the, I spoke about it in relation to the 3G. And also,
Yannick Routier: The overall revenue decline is largely and continues to be largely driven by the residential fixed, which is still impacted by the right pricing effect and the brand mix, which we expect to temper as we get to the end of this year. Gross profit at 0.4, again, significantly improving versus what we posted in Q1 as the revenue decline is partially compensated, sorry, by a different phasing of our network-related expenses that sit in our direct cost. Adjusted EBITDA up 1.9% for the quarter as a result of OpEx efficiencies together with declining lease costs. We will talk a little bit later about the moving parts on OpEx because it is in part the continuation of our savings programs, but also helped by a number of incidentals. CapEx reduction for the quarter, 12% down, sorry, 8% down, apologies.
So, continued growth in B2B service revenue.
The overall revenue decline is largely and continues to be largely driven by the residential fixed segment, which is still impacted by the right pricing effect and the brand mix, which we expect to be temporary as we get to the end of this year.
Gross profit.
Improving versus what we posted in Q1.
As the revenue decline is partially compensated by a different phasing of our network-related expenses that sit in our direct cost.
1.9% for the quarter as a result of Opex efficiencies, together with declining lease costs. We'll talk a little bit later about the moving parts on Opex, because it is in part due to the continuation of our savings programs, but also helped by a number of incidentals.
for the quarter 10, uh,
Yannick Routier: You can see in H1, we are more or less flat, pointing to the different phasing between Q1 and Q2, and we are on track for the full-year CapEx guidance that we have given. That reduced CapEx gets us to a growth on adjusted EBITDA for the quarter and turning down to free cash flow of around 150 million in the quarter, which was slightly lower than prior year, which mostly has to do with networking capital, but I will talk you through that in a second. If we then zoom into revenue, the picture that you can see is the 13 million decline in subscription residential fixed. That is significantly tempered from what we saw in Q1, again, on the back of the price increases and better, less impact of the right pricing. As André said, the brand mix does impact this.
12% down of, sorry. 8% down, apologies. Uh, but you can see in H1 we are more or less flat, pointing to the different phasing between Q1 and Q2, and we're on track for the full year capex guidance that we have given.
That reduced capex gets us.
For the quarter. Um and turning down to free cash flow of around 150 million in the quarter, which was slightly lower, uh, than prior year, which mostly has to do with networking Capital. But I'll talk you through that in a second.
If we then zoom into revenue, um, the picture that you can see is the 13th decline in subscription residential fixed.
Yannick Routier: The other revenue growth that you see in residential is in part the switch-off of the 3G and the higher device sales that we did, plus a number of adjustments on fees that we made. B2B, you see growth on both fixed and mobile, yet slightly lower than what we saw in Q1 because mainly of two reasons. On the one hand, the large customer deal that we spoke about in 2024 has been left, or still some growth, but the majority has been left. Also, although we are making great progress in SME, we have a slightly slower ramp-up of the rollout of the portfolio as such. Then if we go to EBITDA, again, you can see the GP on residential as part of the residential revenue, the fixed revenue also going down to EBITDA, but offset by, again, B2B growth plus the in-france support, which is growing.
That is, that is significantly tempered from what we saw in Q1, again on the back of the price increases and, uh, better, uh, uh, less impact of the right pricing. But as Andre said, the brand mix does impact this.
The other revenue growth that you see in residential is in part the switch-off of the 3G, and the higher devices that we did, plus a number of adjustments on fees that we made.
B2B, we see growth in both fixed and mobile, yet it is slightly lower than what we saw in Q1. This is mainly due to two reasons. On the one hand, the large customer deal that we spoke about in Q4 has been delayed, resulting in some growth, but the majority has been less than expected. Additionally, although we're making great progress in SME, we have a slightly slower ramp-up of the rollout of the portfolio.
uh, the
Then when we go to I
Again, you can see the GP on residential as part of the residential revenue to have fixed revenue.
Yannick Routier: That is mostly phasing, of course, as I spoke about before, and again, it is not something to be expected for the full year. OPEX down $4 million in part because of the switch-off of the mobile core. As part of all of the migrations, we are now also starting to switch off the IT systems and the mobile systems that were supported. So that is driving cost offsite, together with lower maintenance costs across as we continue to focus on that part of our cost base, as well as a temporary impact from the employee share program that André Krause will speak about later. Leasing slightly down on a year-over-year basis, in part because of phasing and in part because of optimization of those costs. Then when we get to adjusted EBITDA, less P&E additions, and adjusted FCF.
Also going down to ill, but all set by again, B2B growth plus the support in France, which is growing, that is mostly phasing. Of course, as I spoke about before. And again, it's not something to be expected for the full year.
Opex down 4 million in part because of the switch off of the mobile core. So as part of all of the migrations we are now also starting to switch off the it systems and the mobile systems uh that were uh supported and so that is driving cost of website together with lower maintenance cost across uh as we continue to focus on on that part of our call space as well.
Well, as a temporary impact from the share, um, employee share program that André will speak about later.
Leasing slightly down on the year-over-year basis, in part because I'm facing, and in part because of optimization of those costs.
Yannick Routier: As I said, you see the growth on adjusted EBITDA coming through with a different phasing of CapEx. I think nothing really to call out in terms of year-over-year reductions, purely phasing on the one hand because of CP, so it has all to do with delivery. Baseline, what you are seeing here is the phasing out of our cost to capture or our integration spend, if you will, together with a slightly different baseline spend on the network rollouts. But for H1, more or less flat. When you get to FCF, you can see a decline versus prior year, and the majority of that is in the working capital and other, which is predominantly driven by a different customer collection cycle and the different phasing of our standalone calls. So all in all, in line with expectations and purely phasing between quarters because of working capital.
Then, when we get to, uh, adjusted EBITDA, less DNA additions, and adjusted FCF.
So, as I said, you see the growth on adjusted debit. All coming through with a different phasing of capex. I think nothing really to call out in terms of year-over-year reductions; purely phasing on the one hand because of CP, so it has all to do with delivery and baseline. What you're seeing here is the phasing out of our cost to capture, or our integration spend, if you will, together with the slightly different baseline spend on the network rollouts.
but for H1, more or less flat.
And when you get to FCF, you can see a decline versus the prior year.
Yannick Routier: If we then go to the guidance page, we are reconfirming all metrics, albeit we are expecting revenue to be at the lower end of the range, in part for two reasons. André Krause mentioned them both, but the first one being a lower and longer replacement cycles for our hardware. Q2 was slightly better, but that was temporary because of 3G. We are seeing a lower replacement trend, and so that is weighing on that lower end. The other part is the softer liquidity that we are seeing in the market. When we get to adjusted EBITDA, we are fully able to offset that and confirming our guidance together with CapEx and adjusted free cash flow, which should then drive a 2.7% increase for the dividend over in paid in 2026 for the full year 2025. Lastly, the ADS topic.
And the majority of that is in working capital and other, which is predominantly driven by a different customer collection cycle and the different phasing of our standalone call. So all in all, it is in line with expectations and purity phasing between quarters because of working capital.
And, uh, confirming our guidance together with capex and adjusted free cash flow, which should then drive a 2.8% to 2.7% increase for the dividend.
Over in paid in 26 for a full year, 25.
Yannick Routier: We did switch off the NASDAQ line last week, Friday, with the last day of trading. There is now an OTC market still in the U.S. that has proven liquid so far. We have 87% of the Class A ADSs that have been converted and 98% of Class B. Of course, the underlying Sunrise Class A shares continue to be listed on the 6th, and we are seeing good developments on that line. For next steps, as communicated previously, we are still holding to our planned switch off on the 13th of November of the sponsorships. The Class A and B ADS holders will be accordingly informed by the depository bank, and we are continuing to monitor the progress of conversions, if you will.
Then lastly, the ads topic. So we did switch off the NASDAQ line last week; Friday was the last day of trading. There is now an OTC market still in the US that has proven liquid so far. We have 87% of the Class A ads that have been converted and 98% of Class B. And of course, the underlying Sunrise Class A shares continue to be listed on the 6th, and we're seeing good developments on that line.
Now for the next steps. As communicated previously, we are still holding to our plan to switch on the 13th of November regarding the sponsorships.
Yannick Routier: As said, there is at the moment an OTC market which remains liquid, and positive to see is that there is no discrepancy in both lines from a pricing perspective. On the back of us switching off then also the sponsorship of the ADS program, we are then, as soon as the SEC allows, intending to reduce our SEC reporting, but one should expect that only to happen end of 2026, early 2027. With that, let me hand back to you, André Krause, for the final remarks.
The class A and B ads holders will be accordingly informed by the depository Bank. Uh, and we're continuing to monitor the progress of conversions. Um, if you will uh and I said there is at the moment, an OTC market which remains liquid and I think positive to see is that there is no uh discrepancy in both lines uh from a pricing perspective and of course on the back of us um switching off the
So the the the the sponsorship of the nas program, we are then uh as soon as the SEC allows intending to reduce our SCC reporting but 1 should expect that only to have to an end of 26, early 27.
Andre Krause: Thanks, Yannick. Before I come to the final remarks, I want to do a bit of a call out on our employee share program. We have, as part of the listing, had the intention to make more of our employees shareholders of our business as we believe that a common interest in the evolution of the business is helpful. Hence, we stood up a program that is depicted on the left-hand side of this chart. We allow our employees, and pretty much everybody is eligible, except all of the management layers which are participating in other shareholding programs. This is mainly all of the employees that could invest. We allow them to invest up to 20% of their base salary over a period of three or six months.
And with that, let me hand back to you, Andre, for the final remarks. Yeah, thanks, Jonny. And before I come to the final remarks, I want to do a bit of a call-out on our employee share program.
Andre Krause: They will get a 33% discount on the share price that will be determined on the end of that period. We are going to have a one-year blocking period, and we believe that it's a very attractive program. I have to say, I am positively surprised about the outcome because we have a participation rate of 50% of our roughly 2,400 eligible employees, and two-thirds of those have chosen to go all in, so exactly six months and 20%. That implies overall our employees are investing roughly 10 million into Sunrise, and I think this is a significant improvement on the shareholding base that we have now across our employees and a very strong commitment of our employees into our business, and I am very happy about that outcome. With that, let me come to the conclusion of the presentation. What have you heard?
So we have um as part of the listing, happy intention um to make more of our employees shareholders of our business, as we believe that a common interest in the evolution of the business is helpful and hence we stood up a program that is depicted on the left hand side of this chart, um, so we allow our employees and it's pretty much everybody is eligible expect. Um, all of the management layers which are participating in other shareholding programs. Um, so this is mainly all of the the uh the employees that could invest. Um, we allow them to invest up to 20% of their base salary, over a period of 3 or 6 months.
Uh, they will get a 33% discount on the share price, which will be determined at the end of that period. I'm going to have a 1-year blocking period. Um, we believe that this is a very attractive program, and I have to say I'm positively surprised about the outcome because we have a participation rate of 50% of our roughly 2,400 eligible employees.
And two-thirds of those have chosen to go all in, so exactly six months.
And 20% now that implies overall.
Andre Krause: The standout messages from our perspective are the 3G switch-off that is now marking the next step in our 5G Standalone (SA) journey, and we do strongly believe this is really a unique feature that Sunrise has implemented and is now able to provide to our customers. Secondly, we have seen a step-up of our commercial activities since the end of the Q2, coming out of the price rise period. However, we are dealing with a lower market liquidity, and hence, we are expecting trading to remain moderate. Thirdly, the revenue trend in Q2 is sequentially improving, and our financial guidance on the back of that evolution is a full reconfirmation of our guidance. With that, I hand over back for the Q&A.
Our employees are investing roughly $10 million into Sunrise, and I think this is a significant improvement on the shareholding base that we have now across our employees. It represents a very strong commitment of our employees to our business, and we are very happy about that outcome. Now, with that, let me come to the conclusion of the presentation. What have you heard? So, um,
Is that our messages? From our perspective, are the SUI switched off? Um, that is now marking the next step in our 5G Standalone journey. And um, we do strongly believe this is really a unique feature that Sunrise has implemented and is now able to provide to our customers.
Secondly, we have, um, seen a step up of our commercial activities since the end of the second quarter coming out of the price rise period. Um, however, we are dealing with a lower Market liquidity. And hence, we are expecting, uh, trading to remain moderate and thirdly.
The revenue trend in Q2 is sequentially improving, and our financial guidance on the back of that evolution is a full reconfirmation of our guidance.
Alex Herman: Thank you, André and Yannick, for walking us through the presentation. Operator, now over to you. Please proceed with the Q&A.
Now, with that, um, I hand it over back for the Q&A.
Operator: We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on the telephone. You will hear a tone to confirm that you have entered the queue. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Questioners on the phone are requested to disable the loudspeaker mode and eventually turn off the volume from the webcast while asking a question. Anyone who has a question may press star and one at this time. The first question comes from the line of Molly Whitcomb from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Thank you, Andrea and Johnny, for guiding us through the presentation. Uh, operate now over to you, please proceed if you like.
The question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and 1 on the telephone.
If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and 2.
Questioners on the phone are requested to disable the loudspeaker mode and eventually turn off the volume from the webcast while asking a question.
Anyone who has a question may press star and 1 at this time.
Molly Whitcomb: Hi, good morning. Thank you for taking my questions. I have a couple, please. Firstly, you have mentioned the impact of the Flanker brand. I am just wondering, have you seen a step-up or acceleration in take-up for Yellow? Just wondering what the division of net adds might look like, or if you could just give us a little bit more color on that, that would be great. The second thing, I am just looking at the cost savings on EBITDA and the UPC migration. Clearly, that has had a benefit over the last couple of quarters. So I am just wondering, how should we think about cost savings going into Q3 and Q4 and into the next year and their potential tailwinds from the UPC migration? Should they be less? Just how we should think about those more generally. Thank you.
The first question comes from the line of Molly with Comp, from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Andre Krause: Thank you for the question. Firstly, we have also seen a price rise and implemented a price rise on our Flanker brand, in particular in the second quarter. Hence, we have been a bit calmer in the marketplace, and on the back of that, we have seen a rather stable evolution of the trading. But coming out of the quarter, we are stepping up there. As we have done in the past, we are not communicating the individual splits of the different brands on the total net add performance of the quarter. On your second question regarding OpEx and impact of the UPC migration going forward, first of all, as Yannick Routier said, there is a number of OpEx improvements that are of a temporary nature, but there are also a number of them which are of continuing nature.
Hi, good morning. Um, thank you for taking my questions. I have a couple, please. Uh, firstly, you've mentioned the impact of the flanker band brand. Um, I'm just wondering have you seen a step up uh, or acceleration in take up for yellow. Uh, just wondering, um, what the division, uh, of net ads might look like, or if you could, just give us a little bit more color on that. That would be great and the second thing, um, I'm just looking at the cost savings on ebit da and the UPC migration. Uh, so clearly that's had a, um, a benefit, uh, over over the last quarter, a couple of quarters. So, I'm just wondering how she would think about, uh, cost savings going into, uh, Q3 and Q4, um, and into the next year and their potential talents from the UPC, migration, should they be less? Um, just how we should think about those more generally. Thank you.
Thank you for the question. So, um, firstly, we have also seen a price rise and implemented a price rise on our, flanker brand in particular in the second quarter. Hence we have been a bit calmer in the marketplace and on the back of that we have seen a rather stable evolution of the trading um but coming out of the quarter we are stepping up there. Um and as we have done in the past we have not communicating the individual splits uh um of the different brands on the total net at performance uh of the quarter.
Um, on your second question, regarding Opex and the impact of the UPC, migration going forward.
Andre Krause: Hence, we are expecting to maintain a rather flattish or slightly declining OpEx evolution as we go into the second half of the year, and then potentially also in the same sort of direction into the next year. Beyond that, on the UPC moderation, we are expecting a tempering of the ARPU impact towards the second half of the year. I think that is pretty much all I can say about. Yannick, anything you want to add?
Um, well, first of all, um, as Iani said, there's a number of Opex improvements that are of, uh, um, temporary nature. But there are also a number of them which are of continuing nature. So, hence, we are expecting to maintain a rather flattish or slightly declining Opex evolution as we go into the second half of the year. Um, and then potentially also in the same sort of direction, uh, into the next year. Uh, beyond that, on the UPC moderation, we are expecting, uh, a tempering of the ARPU impact, um, towards the second half of the year, and I think that's pretty much.
Yannick Routier: Yeah, on the UPC switch-off of the mobile system, those costs, I think what we are seeing, that was a big chunk, and we needed the time to do that. Then, of course, as we are also now finalizing the fixed customer switch-off, there is still some billing and some system-related costs that will phase out. Do not expect that for this year, but that is probably early next year and the year after. But as André Krause said, and I think that also looking back to our capital markets guidance, we have a flat to slightly down OpEx, which is supported by those. As such, not a difference of what we have previously guided for.
Yeah, on the UPC, switch off of the mobile system. Those cost, I think what we're seeing that was a big chunk and we needed the time to, to do that. Then, of course, as we are also now finalizing the fixed customer switch off. There is still some billing and some system related cost that will phase out. Don't expect that for this year, but that's probably early next year, uh, and, and the year after. But, as Andre said, and I think they also looking back to our Capital markets guidance. We have a flat slightly down Opex which is supported by those. So as such not a different uh, of what we have previously guided for
Molly Whitcomb: Great to hear. Thank you very much.
Very clear. Thank you very much.
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Poul Othang from UBS. Please go ahead.
The next question.
On the line of Polo Tank from UBS, please.
Poul Othang: Morning, everybody. Thanks for taking the questions. I have three. The first one is just on promotional activity. You outlined that the bulk of the market is stable to improving when you look at the premium segment or the smart shopper segment, but you did highlight that the budget segment is getting more aggressive. Could you clarify which players are being the most aggressive in this segment? Can you also comment on what you're seeing in terms of behavior from Swisscom and Salt? The second question is, given that you've reiterated guidance for the full year, this does suggest improving trends on the top line from here. Can you comment in terms of how we should be thinking about the trajectory of quarterly revenue and quarterly EBITDA growth from here? Can you maybe talk about or remind us about the tailwinds and headwinds you see?
Go ahead.
Um, morning, everybody. Um, thanks for taking the questions. Um, I have 3, uh, the first one is just on promotional activity. So, you outlined that the bulk of the market is stable to improve in when you look at the premium segment or the smart shopper segment, but you did highlight that the budget segment is getting more aggressive. But could you clarify, uh, which players are being the most aggressive in this segment? And can you also comment, uh, on what you're seeing in terms of behavior from Swisscom and Salt? Second question is given that you've reiterated guidance for the full year, this does suggest improving trends on the top line from here.
Poul Othang: For example, will hardware get worse in Q3 after a temporary boost in Q2? You've previously talked about the lapping of the UPC repricing, but I'm just trying to get a sense if there are any other moving parts. My final question is just about the share-based compensation. This stepped up to 16 million francs in Q2 compared to a quarterly run rate of 5 to 7 million a quarter previously. How should we think about the run rate for share-based compensation going forward? If employees are swapping salary for stock and your share-based compensation payments are not included in adjusted EBITDA, should we be thinking about upside risk to adjusted EBITDA but with a higher share count? Any clarification? Much appreciated. Thanks.
Andre Krause: Thanks, Paulo. Thanks for your questions. Let me take up the first one, and then Yannick takes the two ones after. The promotional activity that we are seeing in the budget segment, I would say at this moment, you can think about the three tiers like swimming lanes of price ranges. While we see within the smart shopper segment where Yellow is playing, we see the price ranges between 20 and 40 Swiss francs, depending on, of course, what tariff you look at and what promotion you see. But we have hardly seen any of the players operating in there, which I would, next to Yellow, I would see mainly Salt and Wingo. Hence, the segment has quite some size. But if you look at that, then nobody has really left that swimming lane below that 20 Swiss francs at this moment in time.
We did an adjusted EBIT D. Should we be thinking about upside risk to adjusted EBIT D, but with a higher share account? So, any clarification would be much appreciated. Thanks.
Yeah, thanks, Paulo. Thanks for your questions. Um, let me take the first one, and then Jany takes the two.
Andre Krause: Of course, the reason for that is that those players all have material existing customer bases, and hence, repricing risk is limiting the ability and the interest of potentially going below that range. On the budget segment, the price range is really 10 to 20. We usually see at the low-end offerings that are starting with 9.95. I would say that is quite volatile. Who is the one that has something out there that is on ticking that price point? I checked this morning. I saw an offer from Sposu at 9.95 for Swiss. I saw an offer from Gomo, which belongs to Salt, which was at 12.95. But again, there is some volatility in these offerings, but you also see offerings that are then rather in the range of 15 or 19, like what you see at Swiss Post or what you see at TalkTalk.
The 2 ones after. So um the promotional activity that we're seeing in the budget segment, I would say this moment. You can think about the 3 tiers like swimming Lanes of price ranges. Yeah. And um, while we see Within These smart Shopper segment, where yellow is playing, we see the price ranges between 20 and 40 Swiss Francs. Depending on, of course, what time? If you look at and what promotion you see, but we have hardly seen any of the players operating in there, which I would next to Yellow, I would see mainly salt and and wingo, uh, enhance this, the segment has quite some size, but if you look at that, then they are, nobody has really left that swimming Lane, uh, below that 20 Swiss Francs at this moment in time. And of course, the reason for that is that those players all have material existing customer bases. And hence repricing risk is limiting the ability. And the the interest of potentially going below that range on the budget segment
Andre Krause: That is kind of a bit the evolution that we see there. What is important to me, and I think as part of the clarification, how we think about the marketplace is not each and every customer is just attracted by price, right? We think that those swimming lanes are important and that this budget segment is having lots of, if you want, news in new entrants. If you think about the last quarter, Sposu was a new entrant, Gomo was a new entrant two years ago. The Post was relaunched just last year. So there is a bit of activity out there, but many of those players are struggling to really get a decent amount of volume over a longer period onto their customer base.
The price range is really 10 to 20. So we usually see at the low end offerings, that are starting with 9.95. Now, I would say that is quite volatile, who is the 1 that has something out there? That is on taking that price point. Um, I checked this moment this morning, I saw an offer from shuzu at 995, for, for Swiss. Um, I saw an offer from gomo which belongs to Salt, uh, which was at 1295, um, but again, there is some volatility in these offerings, uh, but you also see offerings that are then rather in the range of 15 or 19, uh, like what you see at Swiss post, or what you see at at talk talk, so that's kind of a bit the uh, Evolution that we see there. What is important to me. And I think um, as part of the clarification, how we think about the marketplace is not each and every customer is just attracted by price, right? So we think that those swimming lanes are important and that this budget segment is having
Andre Krause: Hence, we see this volatility in the promotional activities, which are intended to, of course, capture some of the interest, but not necessarily can be hold then for a long period of time. This, I think, what characterizes the situation of this budget segment at the best at this moment.
Lots of if you want news in new entrants. If you think about the last quarters, like Shoo was a new entrant. Goma was a new entrant two years ago. The post was relaunched just last year. So there is a bit of activity out there. But many of those players are struggling to really get a decent amount of volume over a longer period onto their customer base. And hence, we see this volatility in the promotional activities, which are intended to, of course,
Yannick Routier: All right, Paulo, let me try to walk you through both questions. I will bring in a bit more detail, but I will try to balance detail versus not becoming too technical. Let us start with the revenue. Year to date, we are down 2.1% or approximately $31 million. What you can see in there is that Q1, we were $25 million down approximately, and Q2 only $6 million. Now, to your point around reiterating guidance, I think we are reiterating yet on the lower side. Broadly stable, of course, is a range in itself. I think, as you said, 2.1% for the full year or for year to date is definitely not what we would interpret even at the lower end of that range, i.e., improvements are necessary. Let me try to help you with what one should expect from that.
Capture some of the interest, but not necessarily can behold them for a long period of time. Um, that's, I think, what characterizes the situation of this budget segment at the best at this moment.
All right, I apologize. Let me try to walk you through both questions. I'll bring in a bit more detail, but I'll try to balance detail versus not becoming too technical. But let's start with the revenue. Year to date, we are down 2.1% or approximately $31 million.
What you can see in there is that, in Q1, we were approximately $25 million down, and in Q2, only $6 million.
Now, to your point around reiterating guidance, I think we are reiterating yet on the lower side, broadly stable. Of course, uh, is a range in itself, but I think, as you said, at $2.1 billion for the full year, for the year-to-date is definitely not what we would interpret. Even at the lower end of that range, i.e., improvements are necessary.
Yannick Routier: Q1, that $24 million had a number of impacts. On the one hand, the right pricing at its full peak. Secondly, a soft hardware quarter, and thirdly, no price increases yet, as special effects that I will zoom in also for Q2 and then the outer quarters. What you are seeing in Q2 is that the price increase is coming through. Some of it was from March, some of it from April, so not fully. Furthermore, the typical optimization effects you see in that first quarter, i.e., the price increases are through, but it is still partially impacted by the optimization impact of implementing that. That means then that from a subscription revenue, you can expect a slight improvement, if you will, going forward.
Now, let me try to help you with sort of what one should expect from that. So Q1, that $24 million had a number of impacts. On one hand, the right pricing at its full peak. Secondly, a soft hardware quarter, and thirdly, no price increases yet sort of as.
Um, special effects that I will zoom in on, also for Q2 and then the outer quarters. Now, what you're seeing in Q2 is that the price increase is coming through; some of it was from January, from March, some of it from April, so not fully. Furthermore, the typical optimization effects you see in that first quarter, i.e., the price increases are through, but it is still partially impacted by the optimization impact of implementing that.
That means that from a subscription revenue, you can expect.
Yannick Routier: What is important to note still, and I think, again, we are in Q3. We are not giving here guidance on Q3 or in general about specific quarters, but Q3 is typical, the roaming quarter. I think what we have communicated is that in our new bundles, roaming is more included, i.e., the revenue becomes more stable, but in the peaks, one might assume to lose a bit, right? That is there. Lastly, I think you asked about the temporary nature of those handsets. Q1 was particularly soft. Q2 was a bit better on handsets, but important to note that Q3, when we did the actual switch-off, because we talked about the switch-off being in July and August, one should expect probably the highest benefit, if you will, from those 3G device switches, which then normalizes in Q4.
And then, what is important to note still? And I think, again, we're in Q3; we're not giving guidance here on Q3 or in general about specific quarters. But Q3 is typically the roaming quarter. I think what we have communicated is that in our new bundles, roaming is more included. i.e., the revenue becomes more stable, but in the peaks, one might assume to lose a bit, right? That is there. Now then, lastly, and I think you asked about the temporary nature of those handsets. So Q1 was particularly soft.
Yannick Routier: Those are all of the elements that I think help you to get to that lower of the range, broadly stable revenue. Lastly, on the share-based compensation, we are getting technical, but let me explain how to read that. First of all, there are two lines that we report in our financial statements. One is the adjustment to OpEx that we are doing, and secondly is then as part of the labor costs, giving you the total share-based compensation. There is a significant difference between those two because only part, and I talk about in a second which those are, only part of those share-based compensation is through labor cost or short-term compensation. By selecting share-based programs, you move it from short-term to long-term, and as such, you can take them out of OpEx.
Q2 was a bit better on handset, but important to note that Q3 when we did the actual switch off. Because we talked about the switch of being in sort of July and August 1, should expect probably the highest benefits if you will, from those 3G device switches, which then normalizes in Q4. So those are all of the elements that I think helped you to get to that lower of the range, broadly, stable Revenue.
Then, lastly on the share-based compensation, again we're getting technical, but let me explain how to read that. So, first of all, there are 2 lines that we report in our financial statements. One is the adjustment to Opex that we're doing, and secondly, is then as part of the labor cost giving you the total share-based compensation.
Yannick Routier: For the quarter, if I am not mistaken, the adjustment that we are doing to OpEx is approximately 4 million, and as you say, the total share-based compensation is 60 million. André Krause spoke about the 10 million share-based compensation for the employee share-based program, which effectively all comes out of OpEx. The other balancing effect is the normal long-term shareholder of normal long-term incentivization that management and other selected employees have. That 60 million, therefore, on a quarterly basis, is elevated and is elevated because of the ESPP that we just talked about. Secondly, I think you are comparing the 6 to 7 million versus prior years, that was because in the past, when we were still part of Liberty Global, some of that share-based compensation was then recharged back to us through a charging fee, and so therefore, it is not like for like.
Now, there is a significant difference between those two because only part of what I talked about in a second, which is that only part of the share-based compensation is through labor cost or short-term compensation. By selecting share-based programs, you move it from short-term to long-term, and as such, you can take them out of all packs.
So, for the quarter, if I'm not mistaken, the adjustment that we're doing to Opex is approximately $4 million. And as you say, the total share-based compensation is $60 million.
Yannick Routier: All to say that the 16 per quarter that we are seeing now is elevated because of the share-based employee share program. I think in the past, we have given you around a 30 million total year share-based compensation number. I think, again, this year is probably a bit elevated because of that one-off employee share-based compensation program, but that is how it all ties.
Andre spoke about the $10 million share-based compensation for the employee share price program, which effectively all comes out of Opex. And then the other balancing fact is the normal long-term shareholder of normal long-term incentivization that management and other selected employees have, that $60 million. Therefore, on a quarterly basis, it is elevated, and is elevated because of the ESP that we just talked about. Secondly, I think you're comparing the $6 to $7 million versus prior years. That was because, in the past, when we were still part of Liberty Global, some of that share-based compensation was then recharged back to us through a charging fee. And so, therefore, it's not like for like.
Andre Krause: Well, let me just add one thing which is important. The employees are investing, essentially have started to invest in Q2, and they will continue in Q3 and Q4, so that's a bit spread. The other thing which is important also, as a company, together with our board, we are, of course, reviewing our share-based compensation programs on a continuous basis, and we haven't taken final decisions for next year, for example. So I think you have to be a bit careful of drawing conclusions on what that necessarily implies for the years to come. Yeah.
All to say that the $16 million per quarter that we're seeing now is elevated because of the share of the employee share program. I think in the past we have given you around a $30 million total year share-based compensation number. So, I think again this year is probably a bit elevated because of that one-off share, uh, employee share-based compensation program. But that's how it all ties.
Yannick Routier: One more point to add. I think when we give guidance on the dividend growth, it is on a diluted basis, of course. So that 2.7% is after dilution, but I think, I do not know what the exact dilution is that you are expecting. This does not meaningfully impact, this should not impact the run rate that you have assumed.
Let me just uh, add 1 1, 1 thing, which is important. I mean, the um, employees are investing. Essentially have started to invest in Q2 and they will continue in Q3 and Q4. So that's a bit spread. And the other thing, which is important, also as a company together with our board, we are, of course, reviewing our share based compensation programs on a continuous basis. And we haven't taken final decisions for next year, for example. So I think you have to be a bit careful of drawing conclusions on what the necessarily implies for the years to come. Yeah. And 1 more.
At point to add, I think, when we give guidance on the, um,
Andre Krause: Great. Thank you.
Uh, dividend growth. It's on a diluted basis, of course, so that $2.7 is after dilution. But I think I don't know what the exact solution is that you're expecting. This doesn't mean to impact the run rate that you have assumed.
Great. Thank you.
Operator: We now have a question from the line of Robert Grinder from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
We now have a question from the line of Robert Greene from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
Robert Grinder: Good morning, and thank you. Three questions from me, too. I was interested in the 15% to 20% improvement seen by 5G SA customers. Is that versus regular 5G, and what is the metric of improvement you are talking about? Is that a latency thing or a throughput thing or whatever? Secondly, did you consider paying an interim dividend? Are you fixed now that you will be paying a bullet only from here on in? Thirdly, the whole U.S. delisting and deregistration thing, will it save you any money? It sounds like it is not.
Good morning and thank you. Uh, 3 questions from me, too. I was interested in the 15th 20% Improvement, uh, seen by 5G. Sa customers is that versus regular 5G and what's the metric of improvement you're talking about, is that a latency thing or a throughput thing, uh, or whatever. Um, secondly, did you consider paying an interim dividend? Uh, are you fixed now? That you'll be paying a bullet only from here on in?
Operator: was told you're 27 saving. Is that right?
Uh, well, it saves you any money. Uh, it sounds like it's more of a full year, $27 savings.
Alex Herman: All right. Good morning, Robert. Thanks for your questions. Let me take the first one. On the 15% to 20% performance improvement, that is actually on three parameters. One is latency. The other two are uplink and downlink. We do see substantial improvement. This is compared to 5G, right? If you are a normal 5G customer and you move to 5G Standalone (SA), then you actually see that performance improvement. Of course, it is based on the fact that 5G Standalone (SA) is truly based on a 5G base layer. Hence, you don't have that flip-flopping between 4G and 5G. That improves, of course, the latency. That helps to step up also the performance on uplink and downlink. I think that sheds a light on the ability. We're really happy with what we have seen so far. I think that's a great step.
Is that right?
All right, good morning Robert, thanks for your questions. Let me take the first one on the 15 to 20% performance improvement. That is actually on 3. Parham 1 is latency.
Uh the other 2 are Uplink and downlink. So we we do see substantial Improvement and this compared to 5G, right? So if you're a normal 5G customer and you move to 5G as a, then you actually see that performance Improvement and of course it is based on the fact that 5G is a is truly based on a 5G base layer and hence you don't have that flip-flopping between 4G and 5G that improves of course the latency and that helps to step up um also the performance on Uplink and downlink. So I think um that sheds a light of the ability
Alex Herman: Next to the fact that 5G Standalone (SA) then also allows to utilize a number of technical innovations like quality steering and so on, which allows us to think about more innovative product features for B2B and for consumer customers.
Yannick Routier: All right, André, thanks. Let me take the next two questions. First on the sort of intermediate dividend or bullet payment, I think a couple of things. First of all, we are at the moment evaluating that and we will still look at it. There are a number of technicalities under Swiss and sort of legal environment that we need to consider. The ability to just pay dividend is preceded by a number of legal steps that need to happen. As such, there is a burden on it, if you will. I think we are wanting to go through 2025 as we currently have it. Then we will sort of evaluate that for 2026 after some of the switch-off of the ADSs are done and we have a stable shareholder base.
Um, so yeah, we're really happy with what we have seen so far, and um, yeah, I think that's a great step. Next to the fact that 5G then also allows us to utilize a number of technical innovations, like quality steering and so on, which allows us to think about more innovative product features for B2B and for consumer customers.
All right, Andre, thanks. Let me take the next two questions. So first, on the sort of, uh, intermediate dividend or bullet payment, um, I think a couple of things. So, first of all, um, we are at the moment evaluating, uh, debt. And we'll still look at it. There is.
Yannick Routier: Something that is not completely off the table does pose a number of technicalities that we have to work through. I think first it is important to make sure that we have a stable investor base, which we will then engage with to get their feedback on. On the second question of the lower cost, you are correct. One should expect that really to materialize in 2027. There might be some savings in 2026 already. Again, there is a number of technicalities that we have to adhere to before we can retract our SEC reporting, which effectively means that we have to wait 12 months after the switching off of the OTC program before it could become effective, i.e., November. That means then potentially for 2026, the requirements fall away. We only know that very late into the year. Therefore, a number of calls will have already been incurred.
Sort of legal environment that we need to consider. So the ability to just pay dividend is preceded by a number of legal steps that need to happen. And so, as such it is, there is a burden on it, if you will, I think we're we're wanting to go through 2025 as as we currently have it. And then, we'll sort of evaluate that for 26, uh, after some of the switch off of the ads that are done and we have a stable, uh, shareholder base. So, um, something that is not completely off the off the table. Uh, does pose a number of technicalities that we have to work through, but I think first important to make sure that we have a stable uh investor base which will then engage with to to get their feedback on.
Uh, on the second question about the lower cost, you are correct. Um,
1 should expect that really 2 material lies in 2027. There might be some Savings in 26 already. But um again there is there's a number of technicalities that we have to adhere to before we can uh retract our our SEC reporting which effectively means that we have to wait 12 months after the switching of of the the OTC program before it. Be could become effective IE November. So that means then potentially for 26. The requirements Fall Away. We only know that very late into the year and so therefore a number of course will have already been incurred.
Alex Herman: Thank you.
Thank you.
Course Call Operator: The next question comes from the line of Max Finlay from Rothschild. Please go ahead.
Matilde: Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions this morning. A couple of questions from me. Firstly, your rebased EBITDA growth for the first half was just over 1%, with growth accelerating in Q2 at 2%. Just wondering if you think you can maintain this momentum going into the second half. It looks like you have a good setup with revenues expected to strengthen from here and OpEx to slightly decline, perhaps. Secondly, you mentioned that mobile is still experiencing headwinds from reduced roaming revenues. How much longer should we expect this to be a headwind? From memory, I think your tariffs changed around Q3 last year. Is this something we should expect to tail off from Q4? Thank you.
The next question comes from the line of Max Finley from RoShield. Please go ahead.
Thank you for taking the time to answer our questions. This morning, I have a couple of questions. Firstly, your rebased EBIT dial growth for the first half was just over 1%, with growth accelerating in Q2 at 2%. So, I’m just wondering if you think you can maintain this momentum going into the second half. It looks like you've got a good setup with revenues expected to strengthen from here and Opex to slightly decline, perhaps.
Secondly, you mentioned that mobile is still experiencing headwinds from reduced roaming revenues. How much longer should we expect this to be a headwind from memory? I think your tariffs changed around Q3 last year. So, is this something we should expect to tail off from Q4? Thank you.
Alex Herman: All right, Max. Thanks for your question. On the roaming question, if I take that first, then Yannick Routier, I can answer your first question. The way how to look at this is I think that will take a long time until that variable roaming consumption is fully tailing off. Because the fact that we have introduced tariffs that have the inclusion feature, that means that over time, customers are migrating into those tariffs and are benefiting from that. We also, of course, have customers in other products like Yellow, for example, where roaming inclusion is not yet fully given on the tariffs. As such, there is more exposure to variable consumption. Hence, we also are still seeing a decent use of roaming options that we expect not only in one year to come down, but probably that is a smaller and smaller headwind over the next couple of years.
Yannick Routier: All right. Then coming to your question on EBITDA. Broadly stable to low single-digit growth, I think I would argue that the year-to-date 1.1 is probably spot on in the middle of that guidance. You are correct in saying that there was an acceleration in Q2. Having said that, that was part of not predominantly driven by a reduction of OpEx as GP was down over 5%. Yes, revenue is expected to improve a bit from here. I think on the back of that, with, as we say, the GP also being impacted with phasing of cost, one can take an assumption on what GP does. All to say that then the continued growth on Dell comes from OpEx. As we said, there is a number of one-off and phasings between the quarters.
Smaller headwind over the next couple of years.
All right, so then coming to your question on ibid doll. Um, so broadly stable to low single-digit growth. Um, I think I would argue that the year-to-date 1.1 is probably spot on. In the middle of that guidance, you are correct in saying that there was an acceleration in Q2, having said that there was a.
part of not predominantly driven by a reduction of Opex, as GP was down mode of 5%.
Yannick Routier: I am not going to give you further guidance on where one should expect the full-year EBITDA to land. But it's those dynamics that make up the year-to-date, if you will, and how you should be thinking about the full year.
Alex Herman: Brilliant. Thank you.
So, yes, revenue is expected to improve a bit from here. I think on the back of that width as we say, the, the, the GP also being impacted with phasing of cost, 1 can take an assumption on what GP does all to say that. Then the the the continued growth on though comes from Opex and as we said, there is a number of 1 of The Phases between the quarters. So I'm not going to give you further guidance on where 1 should expect uh, the full to land. But it's those dynamics that make up the the year to date, if you will and and how you should be thinking about the full year,
And thank you.
Course Call Operator: As a reminder, if you wish to register for a question, please press star and one on your telephone. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Alex Herman for any closing remarks.
as a reminder, if
Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question. I would now like to turn the conference back over to Alex Hamman for any closing remarks.
Alex Herman: To conclude, thank you all very much for attending. That actually concludes our second quarter 2025 results call. As always, if there are any further questions, please do not hesitate to reach out to your team. With that, we wish you a lovely day and a good rest of the week and speak soon to everyone. Thank you.
Yannick Routier: Thank you. Have a nice day.
Well, to conclude, thank you very much for attending. Um, that actually concludes our second quarter 2025 results call. As always, if there are any further questions, please do not hesitate to reach out to our team. Um, with that, we wish you a lovely day and a good rest of the week. We look forward to speaking to everyone soon. Thank you. Have a nice day.
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