Q2 2025 Natera Inc Earnings Call

Hello. Welcome to nutter's 2025 second quarter Financial results conference calls. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following Management's prepared remarks, we will hold hold a question and answer session to ask a question at that time. Please press star followed by 1 on your touchtone phone. If anyone has difficulty hearing the conference,

For operator assistance. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded today. August 7, 2025, I would now like to turn the conference. Call over to Michael Brophy, Chief Financial Officer. Please go ahead.

Thanks operator. Good afternoon, thank you for joining our conference call to discuss the results of our second quarter of 2025 on the line. I'm joined by C Chapman. Our CEO, Salman Mash president, clinical Diagnostics and Alexian, general manager of oncology. And our chief medical officer. Today's conference call is being broadcast live via webcast.

We will be referring to a slide presentation that has been posted to investor.net tara.com. A replay of the call will also be posted to our IR site as soon as it's available.

Starting on slide 2 during the course of this conference call. We will make forward-looking statements regarding future events and our anticipated future performance such as our operational, Financial Outlook and projections. Our assumptions for that Outlook Market, size Partnerships, clinical studies, and expected, results opportunities, and strategies and expectations for various current and future products including product capabilities.

We spend release dates reimbursement, coverage, and related effects on our financial and operating results. We caution you that such statements. Reflect our best judgment based on factors, currently known to us and the actual events or results could differ materially. Please refer to the documents we file from time to time with the OCC, including our most recent form, 10K, or 10q. And the Form 8K filed with today's press release. Those documents identify important, risks, and other factors that may cause our actual

Results from materially from those contained in or suggested by the 4-link statements 4-link statements made during the car made. As of today, August 7th, 2025. If this call is replayed or reviewed. After today, the information presented, during that call may not contain current or accurate information, its narrative claims any obligation to update or revise. Any forward-looking statements, we will provide guidance on today's call but will not provide any further guidance or updates on our performance during the quarter unless we do. So in a public forum we will quote a number of numeric or growth changes as we discuss our financial performance and unless otherwise noted each such reference represents a year on your comparison and now I'd like to turn the call over to Steve Steve.

Thanks Mike. Let's get to the highlights on the next slide. We had a phenomenal quarter. We generated 547 million in Revenue which is 32% growth over Q2 of last year and X Revenue throughout. So revenues grew 34% year on year. We had a very strong volume quarter as well. Which included strong growth across the product portfolio and an all-time record for Signature. We processed 189,000 oncology tests in the quarter, which represents nearly 20,000 units of growth compared to our first quarter of this year. 20,000 sequential growth unit significantly beats our previous growth record and is a new milestone for the company part of this growth acceleration was driven by a significant increase in new patient starts which was double our previous quarterly record.

Chris marching ticked up again in Q2 at 63.4% compared to approximately 59% this time last year. X true-ups gross margins were consistent. Sequentially versus q1 due to strong asps. Despite the fact that signature cogs actually went up meaningfully because we ran so many exos for first-time patients, which of course is very good news.

Given all that momentum. We're in a position to level up the financial guide. For the year. We are raising the revenue, guidance by 800 million at the midpoint. And we now expect revenues in the range of 2 billion and 20 million to 2.1 billion, which is a full reset of the prior Revenue range. We are raising the gross margin guide to 61 to 64% in recognition of the gross margin performance. We saw on the first half but still accounts for factors like growth in new patients in the second half.

We are not increasing our operating expenses which are remaining flat versus the prior God as we get scale in the business, despite being the full investment mode for the future.

In addition to the financials, we have a Full Slate of new data and product updates to discuss today.

We are particularly excited to launch. Fetal focus, a new nipt for inherited conditions that leverages our proprietary ship based method for nipt.

We've never had better momentum in Oregon Health, and the prospera data that we'll talk about today. I think, shows the path. We're on to transforming care for organ transplant, patients, in oncology the data pipeline continues to grow and we're going to take some time on the call today, to do a deeper dive on our strong and Broad data across breast cancer and new data in GI cancers Beyond CRC.

Finally, we've been working in the background on the next major wave of innovation at Nera.

This fall next, we will introduce the terra's AI based Foundation models which are being used to develop new diagnostic biomarkers, molecular Therapeutics and speed clinical trials.

Okay, let's get into some of the business Trends on the next slide.

The first slide just shows our Q2 volume progression over prior years. This was another great quarter for us across the board as we were able to grow significantly against a QQ 2024 comparable. There was elevated due to a sudden influx of V units.

Signature was phenomenal with growth records. In both sequential growth and new patient starts in 1 itself. We saw our second best volume quarter ever coming off, what was a blowout? Q1 number. We saw the same Q2 seasonality Trend. So we always see given our large base of existing customers, but we continue to blunt that impact by winning new accounts.

Our organ Health Products have been on a tear this year with major new account wins driving growth on the back of some very strong clinical data. And there's more new data that we're going to talk about today, which I think sets us up very well for the future in that space.

We also recently exited our Legacy paternity business which was contributing to our volume numbers, historically.

The next slide shows our signature clinical units over time. This quarter. We grew by 20,000 growth units versus our average over the prior 4 quarters of about 13,000 per quarter. This over performance, was a result of a wave of new patient starts driven by the compelling data, we generated in the last year.

Growth in new patient. Starts was about 3 times higher than our quarterly average and about 2 times higher than the previous record quarter.

As we said before signature or quarterly volumes could fluctuate. So I don't think 20,000 growth units is a new normal, but clearly, this strong growth is a great sign.

Historically, a lot of our growth has come from colorectal cancer breast cancer and Ajo monitoring. And again, we saw a very strong growth in these areas. In addition, we're now seeing broader adoption in many other tumor types. As Physicians really, start to generalize the use of signature in their clinics, which is helping drive, volume growth, but also creates a large Revenue opportunity.

We're in the process of seeking Medicare reimbursement for this longer tale of cancers, based on our current growth trajectory gaining Medicare coverage for these non-covered. Histologies over the next few years should be worth approximately, 250 to 300 million dollars in annual revenue, and gross profit further contributing to the financial sustainability of our growth strategy and supporting our path to a $0.00 asp.

We're in an excellent position to achieve this given the significant amount of data we generated so far. And of course we have over 100 clinical trials underway, many of which support these types of initiatives.

I mentioned we grew revenues 34% organically year-over-year, and you'll recall Q2 of last year was a very strong quarter for us. So I'm pleased to see these strong growth numbers over some very tough 2024 comparables.

We had about $45 million in revenue from trucks. This quarter, as we continue to improve reimbursement for covered services, sequentially over Q1, we grew revenues 9% overall and 7% organically.

We've already covered the very strong volume numbers throughout this growth, but we also saw excellent asps across the board.

The next slide shows our gross margin traction over time and we posted another strong gross margin quarter in Q2 stripping out the revenue true-ups, we were still able to generate gross margins steady with q1 despite the big step up in Excel and volumes this quarter. We drove that with better asps for Signature, which is now roughly at 1,175, along with steady results in asps in Panorama Horizon and growth in the prosperity, asp.

We were also very pleased to see continued revenue growth in the quarter, which means that cash collections exceeded our prior history. I think the speed at which we're converting receivables into cash is one of the most promising business trends we are seeing, and DSO is now down to 57 days, which is a record for the company by a wide margin.

All of these Trends allow us to generate cash while aggressively Investing For future growth although this slide shows how much progress we made over the last 2 years. I really think we are just scratching the surface of the margin improvements. We can achieve

We think about margin expansion opportunities around 4, primary vectors continued, execution and revenue cycle operations expanded coverage for products including signature era, further cost, reductions and AI driven efficiencies.

Opportunities to continue to make improvements which could drive asps higher. And we've seen good results so far. This year, 1 example is on appeals historically. It's very difficult to do an individualized appeal for each denial. But as our systems improve and we invest, we're building these tests of capabilities that will allow us to get paid on a higher percentage of cases.

Second, we are expanding coverage for our products. We mentioned in the last call that we think $2,000 ASP for signature.

I mentioned the new opportunity in front of us to drive reimbursement, in a number of additional tumor types. And I'll stress that this opportunity has gotten much larger over the last couple of quarters as our volumes in non-covered tumor types have grown. And we expect to have several additional coverage decisions within the next 12 months.

We've continued to see positive early signs in biomarker states, which is still at the very early stages, and we still have opportunity with Medicare Advantage execution.

Outside of oncology. We still have major opportunities for improved coverage with expanded carrier, screening, 22q and broader coverage for our organ Health Products which could all Drive ASP improvements.

The third area of improvement on margins by cutting costs, 1 of the constants for us over the last decade Is our commitment to investing in R&D projects that reduce cost of goods, sold for new tests that we launched.

Miss Texas. I have a relatively lower technical risk, compared to new product Innovation, and deliver High returns. We now have a full Suite of college, projects were initiating and some that are getting close to Launch.

Finally, we're going to spend some time later on the call and the Investments we're making in artificial intelligence. Well there are some very exciting steps we're taking in AI fueled Innovation, there's a whole range of areas in the business where AI is already having an impact and allowing us to scale our volumes without a 1 for 1 increase in headcount many of these opportunities hit Hogs as well as Opex and we expect to see some significant savings for this over time.

So in summary we have several very concrete ways that we can increase the margin.

Now not all these are under our Direct Control. The path won't always be linear but it's great that we have these opportunities that we're executing across

On the next slide. As I mentioned at the top of the call, we're holding Opex steady even as we raise Topline Revenue guidance by 80 million. So we're getting scale even as we keep our foot on the gas with growth Investments.

We think these growth opportunities in margin expansion clearly warrant the investment required to deliver them. This slide gives some additional color on where the incremental investments in 2025 are going.

To be clear, the vast majority of the Opex increase in 2025 is not yet driving Revenue either, because it's pointed at a longer-term project like, gaining reimbursement for uncovered services or completing a major clinical trial or delivering on new product launches. Or because our commercial hires are just coming on board and are not yet productive.

I'll follow up on that example of commercial hires.

We've recently spent our commercial footprint primarily in oncology, we added these additional oncology reps and we expect to start seeing meaningful contributions from these new people late this year and early next year, as with a lot of these Investments. There's a slingshot effect where they're hitting the expense line this year but they don't start to impact revenue and volume growth until about 6 to 12 months later.

the strong growth we've seen thus far this year wasn't really driven by these new hires

In addition to the commercial team, we've continued to invest in this success of the revenue cycle management. As we said earlier, investing, in revenue cycle, management is 1 of the primary opportunities, we have for margin expansion so this makes a lot of sense to pursue. Once this team is scaled up and the optimal tools and systems are in place. We can get significant scale on top of this infrastructure. We've been moving quickly here which includes many manual processes that can be automated so we don't have to keep scaling at the same Pace going forward.

The forecast also includes a meaningful addition of AI focused technical staff that we think is very promising.

We've also shored up our ability to scale with more lab footprint and additional basic company infrastructure to accommodate our growth.

The R&D incremental investment of 2025 is really driven by both the oncology clinical trial expansion, and investing into new mrd products. We think this is important because there's so much opportunity mrd to work, continuing new expand, or, or a vast set of meaningful, clinical trials, and effort to change guidelines. Accelerate adoption and gain coverage. Where we don't yet have it.

Have announced another Innovation within the prenatal product line with single Gene nipt.

Finally, we're continuing to make rapid progress on early cancer detection, which we now think has a potential to be a major opportunity for Nera.

We've executed well on the procedure trial which now has about 3 and a half thousand patients enrolled and we tend to read out in the late fall, we have also launched the FDA enabling fine trial.

We think ECD is a very significant opportunity for Natera, especially given the high ASPs that are now being established and the existing distribution footprint. We can leverage.

Finally, we're investing in AI and AI-enabled technology, which we will outline on the call today. We believe this could revolutionize care and make a big impact.

We plan to stay nimble on our investment strategy throughout the rest of the year. If we see a clear opportunity to deploy capital, we're going to do that while maintaining our commitment to generating cash later this year. Having said that, I think we're reasonably well positioned to hold office in the current range as we continue to grow.

With that, I'm very pleased to hand it over to Solomon Solomon.

Thanks Steve.

Let's start with the news from Women's Health where we had an exciting launch of our new fetal, Focus, npt for inherited conditions.

Let me walk you through some of the background first on the clinical unmet need that we're addressing with this new test.

How the test works. And the exceptional performance that we're seeing from our clinical validation study called expand.

Today when a pregnant mother is identified as a carrier of a recessive gene like cystic fibrosis. For example, medical guidelines recommend testing the biological father to assess the baby's risk of inheriting. The affected Gene from both parents

But in some cases, the father is not available for testing.

So, with the launch of this new test, if a pregnant mother has screened positive on the terra's horizon carrier screen for 1 of the 5. Most commonly tested jeans.

The fetal Focus tests, can directly assess the baby's wrist of inheriting, the genetic condition, just from a maternal blood sample?

The test is validated to analyze 5 key genes. As you can see outlined on the slide.

and it's backed by data from the expand trial, a large, prospective clinical trial that we've been running for nearly 2 years

I want to tell you more about the expand trial.

So far, the study has enrolled about 1,300 participants from a diverse multi-ethnic population, including patients from leading academic centers and MFM clinics, as well as a decentralized trial arm that leverages Natera's nationwide base of over 1 million Horizon patients per year.

Because of this Nero's uniquely positioned to enroll quickly into the trial.

We see expand a similar to the smart study in that it's designed to be the definitive trial in this test category, with all positive and negative outcomes. Confirmed by diagnostic genetic testing either prenatally or after birth. In the first Milestone, read out about a 100 patients from expand. The fetal. Focus tests, demonstrated 91% sensitivity, to affected pregnancies or the baby actually inherited the recessive genes from both parents.

And the test successfully identified. All 5 affect cases with homozygous variants, which are particularly challenging to detect in cell-free DNA.

Field of focus uses in a terrorist proprietary linked snip technology, which enhances detection of these challenging cases across diverse ethnic populations.

These early results not only highlight. The clinical accuracy of fetal Focus, they underscore the real world value of new terrorist proprietary technology.

Together the product launch and the clinical data strengthen the t's leadership in women's reproductive Health, in a reinforces our commitment, to being a trusted Partners to OBGYNs MFM Specialists and patients across the country.

Turning now to organ health.

This quarter, we announced the publication of the pedal study in the American Journal of transplantation.

AGT is the highest impact transplant Journal, which speaks to the importance and the rigor behind the study.

The title is the first of its kind prospective multi-center trial, evaluating how donor-derived self-free DNA can help predict long-term outcomes after a rejection of a kidney transplant.

You can think about this as similar to immunotherapy monitoring in oncology.

Because it answers the question of whether the treatment is working or not after someone has been diagnosed with rejection.

the pedal study enrolled, 488 kidney transplant, recipients from 28 participating us and international transplant centers over 4 years,

96 of those patients have biopsy proven acute rejection and were monitored with prospera during treatment. Every 2 weeks for 8 weeks

Recorded at the 12-month, mark.

So, the findings showed that transplant patients, whose donor DNA levels remained High during and after treatment did poorly with 97.5% having negative outcomes at the 12-month mark.

By contrast, the patients whose Prospero levels dropped and stayed low were 60 times more likely to experience positive long-term outcomes.

This is the first clinical evidence showing that serial monitoring with prospera can inform patient management during treatment for acute rejection.

Potentially enabling an earlier interventions and more tailored care.

We've got an incredible feedback on the data and a study quality.

Doctors were really eager for this type of readout. It took a long time to run the trial and were very pleased with the results because this new use case for prospera. Complements the existing utility in detecting rejection and surveillance. As, you know, a Medicare has recently released a draft LCD.

Updating its coverage policy for surveillance, which we also believe is positive news.

Turning now to oncology, we had several important events for Signature in the past few months, continuing to fuel the adoption of this amazing technology.

Atasco, we presented interim results from the Dare trial, which has included over 400 early-stage breast cancer patients with HR-positive, HER2-negative disease.

This trial is what we call a tour trial or treatment on molecular recurrence.

Tour has the potential to become the new front line of metastatic treatment with a recurrence is detected first by signature, even though the scans are still negative.

The DARE study has been recruiting and randomizing patients since 2021 to either receive CDK4/6 inhibition at the time of signature A positivity versus continuing standard of care observation.

There were 3, key takeaways from this readout and ask him.

First patients who test serially negative have extremely good outcomes with over 99% remaining recurrence-free. This reflects excellent test sensitivity.

Second.

The test was so sensitive that 73% of the recurrences detected were purely molecular with the reflex scans showing no evidence of disease. And 93% of those patients were then successfully randomized. So, this is a major sign that the tour strategy is viable, unlike prior attempts that resulted in lower patient randomization rates.

As a reminder, the other 27% of patients in whom disease is detected on a scan. Also stand to benefit from early detection and treatment of metastatic disease.

Third we saw 2-fold higher ctdna clearance rate, in 1 of the trial arms, providing a promising signal that early treatment intervention can make a difference at this stage.

So we look forward to further readouts from the Dare trial and to doubling down on the tour strategy, with our partners from biofarma and Academia in breast cancer and another cancer types.

turning now, to the Neo at setting of breast cancer, where we had several important announcements,

Earlier in the quarter, we presented new data from the Ice by 2 trial which showed again that patients who tested signature and negative at Baseline or at diagnosis, had extremely good outcomes after treatment.

The terra's multi-year collaboration with the ice by 2 team. Has yielded many important, insights and peer-reviewed publications

Systematically studying hundreds of early stage breast cancer, patients and correlating signaturea Dynamics with treatment response and long-term outcomes.

so this insight about the great prognosis, when the Baseline sample is negative

Has triggered many doctors to ask whether those patients might safely avoid chemotherapy and perhaps they can be treated just with endocrine therapy instead which is much less toxic.

So this approach is now being formally investigated in a new clinical trial, led by a CSG, which is the Austrian Breast and Colorectal Study Group.

The trial is called Theodore and it randomizes patients who were signature and negative at Baseline to just receive endocrine therapy versus chemotherapy prior to surgery.

The trial is open at 15 sites in Austria and it aims to recruit 250 patients.

This is a great example of how strong biobank data generated over many years can lead to a randomized, clinical trial that ultimately has a chance to be practiced changing.

Our plan is to replicate this strategy as much as possible.

We've built up a significant clinical pipeline of breast cancer, which we believe is hard to replicate to date. We have 18 peer-reviewed Publications and by our count presented over 60 abstracts at top medical meetings. We have broad Medicare coverage across the Neo adyant and surveillance settings.

All of this ships, the foundation for the next wave of randomized, Trials. Many of which are currently underway and others still to be announced.

And ctdna monitoring as the new standard of care across all settings of this disease. We've invested heavily into the data, generation strategy in breast cancer having spent and budgeted over 150 million dollars on breast trials alone.

This is going to be hard for others to replicate given the extent of the capital investment required.

Now turning to gastrointestinal, cancers.

The adoption of signature has obviously been strong, especially in colorectal cancer, but it's now growing quickly in other GI molecules, including pancreatic, liver, and gastroesophageal.

We had two strong peer-reviewed publications in ghee over the past three months.

in gastro esophageal, the Plagueis study was published in nature Communications, validating signature, in the neoadjuvant

Study concluded that those patients would likely benefit from a change in therapy after surgery, instead of just continuing the same treatment, which is a common strategy today with perioperative chemo or immunotherapy.

Signature also, detected recurrence with a median lead time of 6 months ahead of Imaging.

Gastro esophageal cancer is a deadly disease with no. Good biomarkers. For Signature, has the potential to really improve patient management and outcomes.

In liver cancer, also known as hepatocellular carcinoma or HCC, we published a great paper in JCO Precision Oncology that followed 125 patients.

Early stage liver, cancer can be treated with either surgical resection, or with a liver transplant.

And this study saw about half and half contribution and contrary to esophageal cancer, there is a guideline recommended biomarker called AFP or Alpha feed of protein. That's simply does not work very well.

So in this study, we showed that signature is significantly outperformed AFP in detecting a recurrence with approximately 2 times, the longitudinal sensitivity and 100% longitudinal specificity.

and with diagnostic lead times of up to 16 and 12 months,

So we're getting positive feedback about the study and growing interest to use the signature for recurrence monitoring in both respected and transplanted patients.

Finally looking forward, Q3 will be another important quarter for signature as we expect data readouts from the invigorate 0111 trial in bladder cancer and other studies.

Now I'd like to turn it over to Alex to discuss our road map in early, cancer detection. And some of the exciting Foundation models that we're building to fuel the next wave of AI based innovation.

Alex.

Thanks Solomon. We continue to make steady progress on our ecd program. We have now consented over 3 and a half thousand patients for our proceed CRC study, which is a prospective average risk colonoscopy matched trial.

This study is being conducted in a manner to closely mirror our FDA enabling fine study to minimize the risk of performance degradation.

We plan for the next readout from the study in the second half of 2025, which will assess assay performance in over a 100 Advanced adenoma samples and 500 normal controls

Additionally, we're excited to announce the defined study has now started an enrollment and is on track to prospectively acrew, the necessary patients to enable our FDA readout in 2027.

We continue to face gate the program and remain disciplined in our investment.

We want to highlight that our investment in our ecd program is already baked in into our operating expenses.

On the next slide, I want to highlight 1 of the most exciting areas. This quarter, as we continue our investment in our AI initiative,

which were deploying the entire company to scale, our operations improve user experience and drive scientific innovation.

On the operation side, for the entire history of the company, many roles have had to scale linearly with commercial volume.

For the first time we have an opportunity to change that relationship with AI allowing us to scale more efficiently and open up additional operating leverage worth approximately 200 million dollars in savings over time.

On the ux side. We're also building a whole new suite of AI enabled user experience tools which are intended to change the way we interact with Physicians and patients.

Finally, we are leveraging AI to develop new algorithms, that will power the next generation of Diagnostics and clinical insights.

That is designed to support various stages of therapeutic development.

From early Target Discovery, the clinical decision support.

This consists of 3 components.

The first is the genomic and clinical data Foundation layer on which our models are trained.

The second is the core model layer that powers discovery.

And the third is the application layer that supports clinical decision making as well as providing genomic. Insights

The foundation for this effort is built on a rapidly growing set of devices from over 250,000 patients and over 1 million longitudinal time, points along with, abstracted clinical data, and information on drug treatment and outcomes.

Taken together. This comprises 1 of the largest multimodal longitudinal oncology data sets that has ever been created with over 1 billion parameters

Utilizing this data set, we train a multimodal foundational model, on our deified signature and Altera. Data to power, our core AI platform.

This supports several key use cases.

The first, the Terra can create digital twins that can virtually simulate patients for treatment optimization.

As well as outcome prediction.

This can help make therapy recommendations such as suggesting the next line of therapy and opportunities for treatment deescalate.

Outcomes and can run virtual insilico, clinical trials, in order to optimize study design and reduce clinical development risk.

1 recent pilot demonstrated that our algorithm can accurately recommend immune therapy based on real world EHR data.

While another pilot showed that it outperformed both T and B and Standalone, pathology based metrics and predicting, immunotherapy response.

Next, the terra's real-time clinical trial matching software, leverages molecular and clinical data to improve patients and researchers ability to match.

Individuals to appropriate clinical trials.

This capability uses LLMs to interpret eligibility criteria and then structured clinical records, which holds the potential to improve enrollment efficiency, reduce screen failures, and accelerate trial timelines.

Finally the terror has developed an immune therapy response prediction algorithm and a molecular Therapeutics design model which will review on the next slide.

Neo predicted. Neo select are the first of many algorithms on the tear has developed to predict immune therapy response.

And identify potential new antigenic mutations respectively.

This historically has been 1 of the most challenging computational problems.

And the terror developed these algorithms by utilizing our foundational genomics, large language model trained on our longitudinal, genomic data set,

And has allowed us to demonstrate Market leadership in this space.

The tumor new engine selection Alliance or the Tesla database is a reference data set for benchmarking neoen production tools.

We ran our Neo select algorithm against the Tesla database and our algorithm outperformed 25 established models.

And beat the second place model by around a factor of 2. When identifying highly prioritized Neo antigens.

While we continue to optimize our prediction and selection algorithms, we believe that these capabilities are very exciting. Potential. In many areas that could improve patient care.

We look forward to providing future updates on this program at both academic conferences and in Publications.

Additionally Nair has created the Neo predict algorithm to identify patients. Who are likely either responsive or resistant to immune therapy treatment

Neo predict leverages the Neo antigen prediction capabilities. We just described to identify patients who are most likely to benefit from immunotherapy?

Shown on the right of the slide, Neo predict significantly, outperformed tumor. Mutational burden.

In the terrorists perspective, bespoke IO clinical study.

There has been increasing interest in these capabilities from kol's Hospital systems and Pharma companies. And we look forward to providing additional updates in the future.

Now, let me hand it over to Mike to cover the financials, Mike.

Done a lot of time on the revenue and Opex Trends. So I won't repeat those a couple of the stats that sent out to me are first the top line revenue growth over Q2 last year where we had the big influx from the vae. Acquisition of Steve mentioned. I was pleased to see us grow a very rapidly over and above that very tough comp from last year.

Second of the major ramp we've seen in gross margin jumps out, that's driven by the ASP progress. We've delivered over the last year.

Eve talked about several near-term drivers to asps and I'm constantly optimistic, that we'll be able to make more progress in the second half particularly related to Signature aspects.

For example, we previously set a goal to get some ASP traction from biomarker states by Q3 2025 and I'm pleased to see some notable progress on specific payers in several States. So I feel confident that our signature approval and Q3 will have some biomarker State benefit.

On the quarterly trajectory of gross margins. I'm very happy to see some cogs headwinds and signature Tara, when that is driven by an influx of first-time patients, which is what we saw in Q2 as Steve described

Finally, I was pleased to see if continue to generate cash even as we double down on the growth Investments to see described for this year, obviously, that's driven by the revenues and the margins, but also the rapid improvements in the cash conversion dynamics that we talked about earlier in the call.

This is really part of the revenue cycle operations that improve ASP, but also allow us to get reimbursed for covered services in a much more timely manner by optimizing, the initial claim submission to payers with all the documentation they need to pay the claim on the first pass.

As you can see from the bottom row, we've added approximately $47 million in cash from operations to the balance sheet this year and remain extremely well capitalized with a clean balance sheet.

1 other comment on the bottom line. We took in a cruel of approximately 30 million in non-cash stock based comp and legal expenses across in the quarter which I view as non-recurring without that charge. We estimate EPS loss per share would have been roughly 53, cents of the 74 cents we showed on the press release.

Okay, let's get to the guide update on the next slide. We are completely resetting. The revenue guide to a new Range as Steve described. Now, ranging from 2 billion 2020 million to 2.1 billion on the strength of the revenues and the volumes we've seen so far this year, the gross margin, we are bumping the bottom into the range, 100 basis points to account for the good results. We've generated so far this year, this guide implies that ASP Trends will continue to improve while also building in expectations for continued, increase adoption, and first time signature patients through the rest of the year. So the net impact of those drivers should be that organic growth margin will continue to tick up modestly in the second half for both.

Revenues in Gross margins. I will stress that we do not include Revenue troops in the guide because they can be lumpy and challenging to forecast.

I do expect some true up Revenue through the course of the year as the most recent reimbursement, Trends have been outpacing our historical results as you see in here in Q2

on both the sgna and R&D lines. We're holding that guy flat to the guide. We set in May, I'll just reiterate the point that Steve made on the slingshot effect with respect to these Investments very little of the 2025 growth in the Opex is driving revenues this year, but we do expect those to drive growth in 2026 and Beyond. We are going to remain opportunistic as it relates to Opex. If we see a chance to fund an important clinical trial, or expand a territory beyond the current plan, we're going to do that because we are seeing such steady Returns, come in reliably on these Investments.

Finally, just reiterating our cash guide to be cash flow positive. This year, the cash flows can be very lumpy and it's certain possible for variables like dsos to bounce around but our first half performance puts us in great positions for the full year. And I'm biased toward the business generating cash again in the second half here in 2025.

Okay, with that. Let me open it up. The questions, operator.

Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star 1 on your telephone keypad, if you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star 1 again,

Please ensure that your phone is not on mute when called upon thank you.

Your first question comes from Daniel Brennan with TD Cowen, your line is open.

Thank you. Uh, thanks for the question. Obviously, congrats on the quarter. Maybe just starting off with signature volumes. Give the 20,000 sequential, and it was a record. Um, maybe you can just give us some more color on, kind of what drove it. Um, could you speak a little bit about maybe like existing docs and new docs? Uh, I think you talked about new patient starts versus maybe surveillance.

Kind of give us some more flavor, what drove it and I guess the question would be. I know you want to keep the conservative, but is it unrealistic to think something in the High Teens or 20 could continue.

Yeah, thanks Dan. So you know I'd say first, if you look at the broad amount of data that we've been putting out over the last year and particularly in the, you know, the beginning part of this year, we had some really strong data at ASCO GI with the 702 study around. Uh, the socks abuse, you know, I think that, you know, I think has has filtered its way in and, you know, doctors are really starting to, to kind of take hold of that. So we saw excellent growth in colorectal. Um, excellent growth in, uh, breast cancer and immunotherapy monitoring. And then as we said on the call, you know, when doctors start using our product and they, they want to kind of expand and start to use it for other tumors. Um, so, you know, it's a little bit of everything. What it when it when it comes, you know, to the histology is. Uh, we also saw an incredible record in in new patients and, you know, that's really 1 of the, I think 1 of the most important metrics uh to look at is is, you know, are the doctors, continuing to order, you know, not just on patients that.

They ordered you know, a year ago but when a patient walks in the door, you know, are they choosing our tool to make a decision or they choosing, you know, a, a competitor tool or they not using mrd at all? And I mean, we saw just absolute blowout record, uh, you know, twice higher growth than we've ever seen before as new patients. So we think that's a very good sign and of course it's a mix of of new customers that are coming in for the first time and then customers that have, you know, started using us and are now, you know, starting to uh, I think broaden their use, uh, either to more patients or um, to more use cases.

Terrific. And maybe this is a follow-up, um, for Solomon or...

Receiver. Um anyone on the team here just in terms of the clinical readouts, you know, you went through a lot of the

Studies that are ongoing in breast. You talked about the you know treatment on molecular response. Could you just give us a sense over the next say 12 or 18 months? You mentioned the bigger 011 which I think could be guideline inclusive. So we have that 1 coming up. What are some of the other ones that you would point to Across the next 18 months or 2 years? I'm sure they're all important. But are there any more that are important than not? That could actually be the guideline inclusive of a really Drive some meaningful. Uh change in practice. Thank you.

You know, that's a great question. I mean, I I'll just make, uh, make a couple of comments and then maybe Solomon or Alex. If if you guys want to comment and I think first and vigor, um, 011. I mean that's obviously a big 1, um, you know, FDA enabling trial. Uh, you know, we we believe the results will be released in the future. Um, you know, we're super excited about that and, uh, a very good indication muscle invasive, bladder cancer. Um, you know, hopefully we'll we'll have also some some new data read out at it asmo, uh, this year, which I think will be good. Uh, we talked about the gastro esophageal and liver papers. Those have actually just been uh, published which is, which is super exciting. You know, that's 1 of the important steps to, you know, kind of putting yourself in a position to get coverage. Um, is is, you know, having a, a peer-reviewed publication um Solomon. Do you want to walk through a couple of the other or maybe Alex. Um, I know we talked a little bit about dare. You know, when the next read out from that may be uh anything else you want to? You want to highlight

That's the other 1 that we've talked about before. Uh, are the NRG sponsored, uh, collectible trials and circulate us. And there's a few other circulated trials globally that are likely to have, uh, either an intern or or a primary readout, over the next 18 to 24 months. Um, and that includes uh hopefully the the escalation arm Vega uh, from

The Japan circulated trial. So I, I would just highlight those 2 in CRC. That could definitely make a difference uh, for guidelines and Beyond. And um, we'll keep you everyone up to date.

The next question comes from Punnett Suda with Lee Rink Partners. Your line is open.

Get your view and maybe, uh, from Mike as well, uh, in terms of, um, how should we be thinking about and how should investors think about the penetration of Cigna today and the continued room for expansion? How you're thinking about? How do you calculate the penetration and, and, and in various indications?

Yeah, it's a good question. So, yeah. I mean obviously ASCO this year, um, had, you know, enormous amount of oral presentations, uh, posters on signature and there was a just a huge Buzz at the conference around mrd. I mean, everywhere you went with talking about mrd, so, you know, a lot of excitement coming out of that. I think we did see, um, you know, a lot of a lot of strong momentum, um, in the, the kind of last month of the quarter coming out of there, you know, after after a lot of the, the presentations. Um, you know, so that that that's a great sign I think um, going forward and you know that I think that buzz is is continuing. Um, from a penetration standpoint we think this is is very underpenetrated. I mean, low single digit penetration when you look broadly and you know what? What we're really starting to see is that this opportunity is, you know, is is very, very broad when you, when you look at, you know, doctors especially in the community.

You practice, they start using for colorectal, you know, then they kind of start with gastroesophageal. Then they may order for long maybe order for bladder. I mean, they they really start to kind of go and expand throughout the practice. So you know as we move through those stages with the Physicians we're we're just realizing, you know, how underpenetrated uh the opportunity is but how we have a presence in all of these offices. So we're you know, we now have this this sort of very broad footprint that is set up, significant amount of data, we've built all this infrastructure. Uh, we have a lot of coverage in place. We have all of these studies underway and we're in a great position to now, uh, you know, in increased volume over time based on all the infrastructure that we've put in place.

You got it, and then on the um, a proceed and find trials. Um, I just wanted to understand, uh, you know, your strategy, uh, the timing. This is clearly a hard problem to crack. We saw a trial, um, failure. Shouldn't sure it was, um, uh, you know, it meet the primary endpoint but it was below the NCD, um, and the that company subsequently licensed the technology from another company. But just, uh, could you talk about the technology and the performance, the sensitivity, the AAS. Uh, what are you shooting for? Uh, when do you think you can? Um, how you know, when, when can we see the data? When can we

Um, see an FD approval reimbursement. And then then launch obviously, this Market is, um, uh, there's a product on the market and looks like, you know, now there is a, uh, entrance, uh, that's, that's getting more of a boost. So, just want to understand the timing and how you're thinking about this Market.

Yeah, let me make a couple comments and then maybe, uh, you know, hand it over to Solomon, uh, or excuse me to uh, to Alex to talk further, you know, but but I I'll just say first, you know, we we have a long history of doing in-house R&D and, you know, developing products um you know developing products ourselves entering into new markets successfully and also competing very well in highly competitive markets. So you know we think we're in a good position. Long term to make this a very significant uh you know component of of materas overall business from a from a signing standpoint.

Um, the first, the the next major readout is going to be the procedure trial and proceed. If you remember was collected exactly how you would collect samples in the FDA protocol. So, you know it, it's not, you know, some other type of protocol, it's effectively, you know, drawing the blood and then the patient goes and gets, you know, colonoscopy so it's it's a screening protocol that exactly aligns to what you would see in an FDA trial.

Much more of an acute sense of of what the performance is going to be in the FDA enabling study. And I think that's a little bit different. Um, you know, maybe then, um, then, you know, the approach that that some others have taken historically. And then, if you look back to the CRC data that we read out, um, you know, earlier this year, I think kind of shortly after JP Morgan or maybe kind of right around that time frame. If you remember, we had a lot of screening identified, asymptomatic color, cancer patients in those cohorts. So, again, a little bit different from the strategy. Some others have taken previously where, um, you know, they don't really have kind of these screening detected.

Uh, asymptomatic patients included in the cohort, and we think that that reduces the likelihood of of drop off as you move forward. Um, so look, stay tuned for the readout. Um, super exciting for find that trial is already up and running.

Um, you know, we've already enrolled patients and, you know, we think, uh, that can be, you know, complete enrollment, um, you know, potentially kind of late 26th and we can be in a position to, you know, read out the results, and submit to the FDA and in 2027,

Alex, you want to add anything? Yeah, I think I stole a great question and yes,

Yeah, the only thing I'll add is, you know, we're, we're very aware, right? The degradation can occur. And, you know, we, we do believe that probably the biggest source of degradation is

You know, poorly matching, you know, the FDA study with the case control studies that are being used to assess early assay performance. So, we've really taken a very thoughtful strategy of really launching the perceived study and using that as the basis for the fine study, right? So the study really rolled from proceed into find. So the enrollment criteria the, you know, processes for enrolling. Patients are very, very similar found the same. And this allows us to really acrew samples from perceived which hopefully are matched almost kind of 1 to 1 you know with the final fine study. Um and then the last thing I'll say is that you know while

getting enough prospectively collected colon cancers may be difficult actually collecting enough Advanced adenomas to read out. You know, a very good performance estimate is is much easier, right? Because the rates of advanced adenoma between 5 to 10%. So from procedure, we're going to get hundreds of advanced adenoma samples. So, this allows us to actually read out, uh, with a well-powered, um, uh, cohort and really estimate what? The final performance of the assays.

Going to be. So we're doing that. We're going to read out some data end of the year, um, and there could be additional readouts right before the final, uh, read out the for the finest setting and then Steve mentioned, you know, find is going. Um, it's enrolling, we're very, very excited and right now we're kind of guiding to read out of that study in 2027. But, you know, as we can get closer to that date, we'll kind of further refine our um, our guidance

Got it. Super and then just if I could squeeze 1 in just given the number of inbounds that I'm getting very quickly and briefly, if you could provide me the number of product launches this year, uh, just if you could encapsulate that and and how quickly can you monetize the AI initiatives that you talked about, uh, and turn them into a, a assets and products and and, and to start to see the revenue that thank you.

Yeah, I'll take, uh, I'll comment and then, you know, Alex jump in again but yeah, product launches. I mean, we just announced, fetal Focus. Uh, we're excited about that. We launched Veno earlier in the year. Um, as we said, we've got several other things coming. Um, you know, largely focused around mrd so, um, you know, we'll we'll I think stay tuned. You know, as those launch will give you guys an update. Um but lots of cool stuff happening uh lots of uh mrd related activity. That's that's on track. Um coming down the pike. So the vast majority of our investment there is is is focused on

Incredibly unique, uh, data set, and Incredibly unique, uh, you know, set of, of tools and uh, Foundation models. Um, that are going to be important. Very important for Pharma, uh, going forward. And, and I think this for the first time, you know, kind of puts us in a position to be doing those, you know, very large deals. And then the second is, um, we're going to be, uh, you know, commercializing a lot of this stuff through. Um, our, you know, current diagnostic platforms either as kind of add-on capabilities, alongside our existing uh, tests or as as standalone biomarkers.

Got it. Thanks guys.

The next question comes from Katherine Sheltie with beard, your line is open.

Hey guys, thanks for the questions. Um, maybe first, you talked about the 250 to 300 million of revenue from potential Medicare coverage of non-covered indications. Can you just give us a bit more in terms of details on the timeline for some of those submissions? And, you know, how should we think about those being paced going forward?

Yep. Good questions. So yeah, I mean for that we we basically just looked at, you know, all the non-covered uh, indications and the volume that we have there that, you know, we're not billing. And we said what would it be worth if we got covered for that, you know, basically in the next kind of 12 to 18 months or, you know, something at that time frame and you get, you know, 200

$50.3 million in revenue. So, there's a lot of upside opportunity from, uh, the business that is already coming in just simply from getting these coverages. And you can believe.

This is a big focus of ours is to get these Commissions in and, you know, get coverage. So, you know, I mean I I think I think we said in the prepared remarks, you know, at least 7 something that range um, you know, I was on a call today, you know, where where we, we went over our opportunities for 15 different submissions. So, you know, I think there's there's going to be a lot coming but you I think as you've seen

You know, it it's it's not always uh as easy as just doing a submission, you have to have the right data um and you you know you you you have to make sure the trial is done the right way and so we've developed a significant expertise in in doing the right mrd trials, um, and submitting those and and getting coverage. And, you know, that's what we're doing again in in all these other, um, indications,

Okay, great. And then you highlighted, I think over 150 million and breast cancer clinical trials. Um, you know, is that signaling a, a, a, you know, will focus on breast and in terms of prioritizing additional indications, um, you've got a competitor potentially coming who has a large presence on risk of recurrent side for breast cancer. So,

This may be talked through how you view your competitive position in in that cancer type.

Yeah, I think um, I think breast has always from the very beginning, been a major Focus for us, you know, along with initially col and IM therapy monitoring um, and now really pain cancer. So, you know, if you look back at some of the trials, we presented, I mean I think the Dare study which now has, you know, like 2,000 plus time points started uh in 2021 you know, so you know 4 or 5 years ago now. Um, so this this isn't like a sort of a new thing. I think there's there's continued Investments that are new like, for example, the teodor study, um, but we've been investing heavily into breast the whole time and and like we said, we've, we've invested and are in the process of investing over 150 million dollars in just in breast cancer alone in clinical trials, and that's in our budget. And that's in the, you know, forecast that we've shown. So, you know, the the point is, is that it's, it's, it's a big effort to do these things, and there's a lot of different trials that

Need to be done and you know we're already doing it and we think it's going to be very hard for someone to come um you know and and sort of replicate that but obviously breast is it, the big opportunity. Um there's a there's a chance to really help a lot of patience and it's it's it's a cancer. I think that's, you know, very near to me and you know many others that the company is

As well for for personal reasons.

The next question.

In advance of full exam, gross margin improving over the next few quarters, you know, especially given the first half strength. So that's the first 1. Uh, the second is on volume, trajectory you've been signaling that we should be modeling an expectation, for 12,000 incremental clinical signal Tara units each quarter, uh, the trailing 4 quarter average is already about 16,000. Um, at what point would you consider bumping that up? Um, and the last 1 is on uh, Revenue strength, uh, and operating Sprint spend. So in the first quarter,

On a really strong, tough line, you increase operating spends, uh, this quarter again, really strong at the top line, but you maintained your operating spend guide. Is this a sign that you are where you want to be in terms of things like headcount and number of R&D programs for the next several quarters. Thank you.

Yeah, I think Mike, you could probably, uh, run the table there.

Yeah, no thanks for the questions. So um Doug remind me, the first 1 again, I should have been writing those down, man. You gave me a. You gave me a good list. I can get from the back.

First, what's the first Mark? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So the gross margins. Um, I think, you know, X, the, um, you know, the big step up we had in new patients. I think it's fair to estimate that the gross margin progression. Sequentially would have been kind of similar to what we saw uh, in q1. So I think that you would have had that kind of same kind of steady Improvement in Gross margins. And that would really would have been driven by um you know, the the

Bump up. We had, uh, again, we had another, you know, a bump up in, um, in Cigna, ASP is primarily and we had another strong ASP quarter in women's health, which I, I was very pleased to see. I want to see those, you know, the strong ASP traction. We've had there. I want to say that, say, that kind of maintain. And we definitely saw that in the quarter. All right. Give me the next 1 again.

Uh, you beat by 16,000 uh, on average, the last 4 quarters, you've got against the 12 at at what point are moving that up.

Yeah, I mean I think you I think you have to move it up honestly but I just I would just caution you. Um

Not to anchor on any 1 quarter. And it's the reason for that is just that there, there has to be some Randomness there quarter to quarter, um, where we'll have, we'll fluctuate up and down. Um, so you just got to allow for that. But beyond that, I mean, in terms of kind of fundamental drivers,

Seat covered them. I mean we're we're really in a in a fantastic position here, where the operations are running incredibly smoothly. We're kind of on the other side of a lot of very daunting challenges that we had to undertake uh, to launch this category. Uh, and things are rolling. The data is coming in that we, that we started years and years ago, you know, is reading out. So it's a, it's, it's a great time. I think for the whole space for MD, great time for patience. Um, so I mean, I think, I think it I would just without kind of just laying out like a specific number, I'd say, you know, bump it up modestly versus our prior

And just look look out for fluctuations that's that's to be expected and that's totally normal.

The next question.

Comes from.

That install with JP Morgan. Your line is open.

Hey thanks so much for taking the questions. Um, so I wanted to push a little bit further on the sales rep Dynamics so you talked a bit about expanding your sales force. Can you walk us through? How large is your sales force at this point? And where do you think that needs to be over the medium to long term and then just specifically on some of the recent sales, rep ads? How should we think about the productivity for those new reps as we get into later this year and into 2026 as well?

Yeah, that's a good question. So, you know, I think, I think traditionally, we've, we've sort of had, like, you know, 150, 150 175, oncology reps, something in that range. Um, you know, I think we've, we've actually executed kind of a meaningful Step Up, um, you know, that was completed, uh, during during Q2. Um, so a lot of those folks are are kind of just coming out of, uh, training. Um, or you know, kind of just getting their feet wet out in the field meeting customers and and so forth. So, in, in our view, you know, normally it takes 6 to 9 months for the Reps to really become productive. Um, and that's just when you, you know, you think about like all the complexity of the material,

Material, you know, 100 peer-reviewed Publications, uh, building relationships. So, you know, we're in this kind of dynamic now, which I think we, we call like a slingshot effect on the call where we have this built-in expense line of these people that we've hired. But they, you know, they they're not really kind of

So, what are sort of, some of the metrics that we look at, you know, obviously we look at, you know, the number of new accounts that they're bringing on, uh, account retention in the business, uh, their, uh, ability to add on new doctors within, uh, within the practice, um, their ability to expand, um, you know, from 1, to tumor, type to the other, um, you know, within the particular practice. So, you know, I I, I would just say those are kind of the, the types of things that we look at, you know, we don't really have like a, you know, just given given kind of the growth phase that we're in. We really, you know, we, we don't have like a necessarily a, uh, you know, immediate uh, like Revenue, uh, that, that every rep has to hit with an X number of time. But, you know, there there's certainly, you know, a lot of attention on, you know, the the, the growth trajectory um and you know, the the amount of uh return that's that's being driven by each Road.

Great. And then for my follow-up on signature it sounds like you guys had another standout quarter there on new patient ads. Can you explicitly tell us how many new patients were added in the quarter for Sigma Tara and any color on what indication or use cases? You primarily saw those in and then as a follow-up to that, how should we think about this? In terms of volume expectations for signature as we look into 2026? Thank you.

if Mike, you want to comment on, on new patients,

Yeahs on new patients. I mean, just as I I was just covering with Doug. I mean, if if you'd had just a normal kind of mix that we have, it would have been about 40 basis points. And so, this was, you know, this was multiples of that as as Steve describing the call. I'm like, I don't want to get into like, laying that out as a kpi that within kind of giving all the time. Because I know that that is, um, the growth of new patient, starts is a very volatile, um, metric, uh, for the business. I mean, I think in terms of kind of looking for, uh, into 2026, I mean, it does

Uh, it does give me some confidence. Now if you just look back just look at that chart on the on the volume growth and the consistency of that, I'm actually surprised what like how consistent uh that has been. Um that plus just the just when you go to the academic conferences now, uh it used to be that, you know, mrd was sort of like a new thing and and it's um you know, 2B 2B, examined, and there's interesting data. And now it just feels like the tone is has kind of shifted at at those things where this is

People are doing mrd, you know? I mean, this is going to be something that it looks like it's, you know, inevitably part of the standard of care and that

That gives me a lot of confidence in the kind of the trajectory of the of the franchise, both, you know, just this year, 26 and Beyond.

The next question comes from. Tau P Peterson with Jeffrey's. Your line is open.

Hey, thanks. Um, I didn't hear you mention latitude, uh, which I think was on deck for a mid 25 launch tumor naive. You know, you kind of mentioned the question on, you know, how many products are you launching more coming in mrd, but the latitude get pushed out what what's the latest there and then have you ever sized it tore opportunity for Signature, you know? I think that's certainly very interesting.

Yeah, so I mean you want to take this.

For Alex.

Sure.

Yeah, we're uh thanks for those questions.

Uh, take care the, on the tour side or excuse me, the on the latitude side first. Uh, we're we're very excited about the progress there, so we presented excellent data recently and we had announced that, um, sensitivity, you know, it looking very good. I think at 81%, um, specificity at 97% on a per sample basis. Uh, we see that as competitive, um, with any other, you know, uh, tissue free test on the market, and, uh, we're already getting a lot of inbound, uh, you know, requests and and interest on it. Um, so, you know, we're we're in the process of bringing that, uh, to our customers and

Jan and I'll be treated according to standard guidelines for treating metastatic disease.

But the other half now up to 3 quarters as we saw from the Dare study, will be negative on a scan. And that means that, you know, they're going to be looking for something else. Uh, whether that's escalated Imaging, which is the current standard, you know, do some, do a different type of scan, do it more frequently um or they become eligible for a novel clinical trial where they can get treated directly and look for that clearance of a ctdna. So I think there's going to be more and more trials coming out of this nature um and you know we but but we see the overall opportunity as all recurrence monitoring

Okay, that that's helpful. And then maybe shifting over to Oregon, you know, a moldy X has proposed some changes to the transplant LCD for solid organ Alig. I know this doesn't directly impact you but a, you know, have you had communication with them? Are you, are you confident? It won't be an issue. And then 1 question. We've gotten is, is there any risk that this could eventually spill over to mrd? Just in the whole concept of capital? The number of tests, they're willing to cover.

Yeah, um I I'll take that. So I think for, you know, first on the LCD, I mean we see it as upside for us. Um, you know, we're not in a position where we're kind of running 2 different assays, like kind of running a DNA assay, or running an RNA assay and it kind of billing for them separately. So you know, our Oregon Health test is DNA only and there's there's sort of 1 bill.

Um, so we're not impacted by that at all. Um, and then the surveillance piece we see, as upside. And, you know, actually when, when we kind of look at the Cadence, we, we, we see it as upside for us. So, um, you know, we're excited about that. And, and we're going to help like we said on the call, I mean, it, you know, we, we talked mostly hear about oncology, but, uh, we're doing really well. And, uh, we're seeing a lot of big major academic centers, uh, switching over to us. Um, that's across the board. You know, kidney fart, and lung. Um, we got a ton of great data that's been published, uh, very unique features that set us apart. Um, so you know, we're excited about, uh, continuing the opportunity to organ health.

And, and risk, just this concept of competing, you know, number of tests by mold DX could spill into mrd.

I mean, I I, I think that already exists, you know, in in, you know, in many ways, right? With these, uh, these sort of bundled, you know, bundled reimbursement, where it doesn't really matter how many tests they run, you're going to get paid a certain amount. I mean, that's that already exists in a, in a significant portion of the business. And then, you know there's other, you know, other tumor types where they have already said, hey, this is the Cadence that we're going to reimburse for. So, you know, I, I don't think it's a risk. I think it already exists, uh, where they kind of look at what they think the appropriateness of, um, ordering is. And in some cases, they've put, you know, specific guidance in place, you know. But normally what we're

Seen is the, the doctors order the test kind of roughly around the cadence that, you know, Miax sort of kind of is aligned with. So, you know, I, I, I don't really see it as we don't see that as any real risk at all.

Okay, thank you.

That is all the time. We have for questions. This will conclude today's conference call. Thank you for joining you may now disconnect