Q2 2025 Ranpak Holdings Corp Earnings Call
Good morning and welcome to the ranpac Holdings. Corp second quarter, 2025 earnings call.
All participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speakers remarks, we will conduct a question and answer session.
To ask a question at that time, you'll need to press star followed by the number 1 on your telephone keypad.
As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.
Thank you, and good morning everyone. Before we begin, I'd like to remind you that we will discuss forward-looking statements as defined under the private Securities. Litigation Reform, Act of 1995, actual results May differ materially from those forward-looking statements as a result of various factors including those discussed in our press release and the risk factors identified in our form 10K and our other filings filed with the FCC.
Some of the statements and responses to your questions. In this conference call may include forward-looking statements that are subject to future events and uncertainties that could cause our actual results to differ materially from these statements
Rampac assumes no obligation and does not intend to update. Any such forward-looking statements.
You should not place under Reliance on these. Forward-looking statements, all of which speak to the company only as of today.
The earnings release we issued this morning and the presentation for today's call are posted on the investor relations section of our website.
A copy of the release has been included in a Form 8K that we submitted to the SEC before this call.
We will also make a replay of this conference call available via webcast on the company website.
For financial information that is presented on a non-gaap basis. We have included reconciliations to the comparable, gaap information.
Please refer to the table and slide presentation accompanying, today's earnings release.
Lastly, we'll be filing our 10 Q with the FCC for the period ending June 30th 2025.
The 10 Q will be available through the SEC or on the investor relations section of our website with me. Today, I have Omar asli, our chairman, and CEO, and Bill, drew our CFO.
Omar will summarize our second quarter results and discuss our Outlook and Bill will provide additional detail on the financial results. Before we open up the call for questions.
With that, I'll turn the call over to Omar.
Thank you, Sarah, and good morning everyone. Thank you for joining us today.
I wanted to start by saying that, despite this lower start to the year, we remain confident in the outlook for the business.
We expect that our financial performance will improve meaningfully in the second half of the year as our cost Improvement initiatives and structural realignment takes hold and we target a meaningful ramp up for our automation Revenue, which will be driven by deepening relationships with Enterprise customers in North America, as well as continued broad-based penetration in Europe.
In North America, we're working on a strategic multi-year deal that we believe will be transformational for our business and consume a lot of our capacity in our Shelton facility.
We have made substantial investments in the team and solutions over the past few years. And I feel comfortable saying it is now paying off.
Outside of our large Enterprise customers. The business environment is dynamic with sentiment among individual customers, and businesses across regions, varying widely, and at times changing quickly in reaction to headlines.
It has been a challenge challenging start to the year much more so than I envisioned going into 2025 given the tariffs. But we're taking the hard steps to Driver results in this environment.
Overall, I believe the actions, we have taken this year to improve our margin profiles and reduce costs will support a much improved. Second half
I believe those actions combined with our expectations to ramp further with Enterprise customers position us very well for sustained growth in upcoming years in PPS and automation.
We expect that our cost reduction and margin improvement efforts will start to be really felt in the third quarter, in particular. As it relates to North America, where we have experienced the most meaningful pressure on gross margins to start the year.
In the second quarter, we took pricing in North America and we'll get the full benefit for that. In the third quarter. We secured more favorable warehousing Arrangements. Beginning in August and optimized our freight and Logistics spend through carrier consolidation and investment in our own Logistics assets.
We executed on targeted headcount reduction, programs across the globe and deferred non-essential hires and spend
across the company, we have reduced headcount by 3%, since April
Of the roughly 8 million in annualized, identified cost out initiatives. We expect that approximately 1 million of that will be felt in Q3 and the full run rate of 2 million per quarter will be felt in the fourth quarter.
Margins in North America. In particular have been most challenged and we believe those initiatives have the potential to improve gross. Margin X, depreciation by 300 to 500 basis points in the second half of the year.
For a company that is as Global as ours.
Over the past few years, we have been in the process of moving toward a more Global functionally based organizational structure. With many areas such as Finance, it legal HR, engineering, under Global functional leadership.
Our regional managing director structure, no longer fit in the ecosystem. So we decided to take the final step in globalizing our business, by transitioning, our commercial and operational functions to a more Global structure as well.
We recruited a very high quality Chief Operating Officer to globalize our operations and help us scale efficiently.
He joins us in September from English Soul Rand and will be based in the Netherlands.
We believe he can bring a tremendous amount of value to supply chain. Procurement as well as getting operational efficiencies from our footprint as we scale
Our Head of Automation will assume responsibility for all of our sales efforts and strategy as Chief Revenue Officer going forward.
Our MDS in Europe and APAC have done a great job advancing ramp back in their geographies and leading the local teams. I appreciate their years of great leadership and valuable service to rampac and wish them the best.
I'm optimistic, there's no Global structure and infusion of talents will enable rampac to improve our execution and grow the business profitably over the upcoming years, as we have laid, the groundwork for growth and expansion.
Now, moving on to our results.
Our volume momentum continued with our eighth quarter in a row of volume growth.
Consolidated, net revenue, increased 3.8%, and would have increased 5.2% excluding the non-cash impact of the Amazon Wars. On a constant currency basis for the quarter driven by 5.2%, volume growth as e-commerce, activity. Drove growth in North America.
North America was the key driver of topline performance, with sales up 12.2% and volumes up 14.8% over the second quarter in 2024.
Enterprise accounts contributed solid growth while the distribution channel was less. Robust compared to the first quarter as straight and tariff uncertainty took a toll on buying Behavior.
I like what I'm seeing out of our team as the work on trials and closes is strong and believe that the fundamental blocking and tackling. We're doing along with our new sales leadership is Paving the way for solid profitable growth ahead in our distribution and direct channels.
Our relationships with Enterprise accounts. Used to be an area of weakness for us as we were under index to those large high volume accounts.
I'm pleased to say I now view our Enterprise account management as a source of strength, and our working closely with operations and procurement to take these relationships and extract efficiencies within our processes, to make them more profitable for us, as I believe the opportunity is there.
Europe and asia-pacific volumes were flat for the second quarter versus the prior year as Europe, remains growth challenged and impacted by tariff and trade uncertainty.
We saw some sequential Improvement in Europe as volumes were down less than the quarter compared to the first quarter and July is showing volume Improvement year-over-year, hopefully indicating some signs of stabilization in the region.
We were glad to see the trade deal with the EU at 15% tariffs. As we hope that striking such a deal will bring stability and predictability to the European markets which are very important for us.
We experienced $1 to $2 million in destocking in Asia-Pacific as our Malaysia factory ramps up, skewing production and customers. That used to have multi-month lead times now have much faster and cheaper access to products.
Long term, this is great news for our business opportunities, in the region, as it'll help us penetrate further and a more competitive pricing, but it does create some air pockets as we get ramped up.
Automation increased 34% in the quarter versus last year and has a robust backlog leading us to expect that we will see full year automation revenue of 40 to 45 million.
We saw some projects move from Q2 to Q3 and a handful into next year. But overall feel really good about the second half of the year and outlook for this business given the strong payback profile for high volume customers.
In North America. The recently, enacted fiscal package allows for bonus depreciation for tax purposes, which should help further improve cash on cash, returns for customers investing in our automated Solutions.
Non-cash impact of the Amazon warrants.
Overall profitability was negatively impacted by increased input costs and temporary inefficiencies in North America year-over-year, mixed headwinds from outside contribution of void fell and lower sales volume in Europe.
Again, as more trade deals, are agreed to. And with the actions, we have taken. We expect to improve the top line and margin profile of the business beginning in the third quarter.
the input cost environment continues to vary by geography in the US pricing moved up early in the quarter, but has since been flat
We do not expect to endure. Further pricing pressure in the second half based on our contracts and negotiations with the Mills the mill. Disruptions we encountered earlier this year, have dissipated and Lead times have returned to normal.
We felt the effects of these disruptions in our financial profile. In the second quarter through more expensive inventory and Freight but expect that will normalize in the third quarter.
In Europe, the energy markets were much more favorable compared to the first quarter with Dutch na gas in the 30-40 euro per megawatt hours range, which is down more than 30% from its early peak in q1.
We expect paper pricing for the second half to be flat with the first half.
Overall, in Europe and Asia Pacific, we have maintained an attractive margin profile, and our focus is on driving volumes further as those markets stabilize.
To summarize, our focus is really on a few things.
Improve margin in North America.
Drive volumes in Europe.
And ramp up automation.
Where executing on a plan to do all of these.
With that, here's bill, with more info on the quarter. Thank you. Omar in the deck, you'll see a summary of some of our key performance indicators. We'll also be filing our 10 Q which provides further information on rampac operating results.
Overall, net revenue for the company. In the first quarter increased 3.8%, year-over-year on a constant currency basis, driven by solid volume growth in North America. And an increase in automation Revenue offset by somewhat sluggish environment in Europe and the stocking and APAC.
The quarter in the Europe and APAC reporting division, combined revenue decreased 2.7% on a constant currency, basis, driven by Price mix. Headwinds of 2.9%,
Our reported results benefited from 5.4 points of currency. As the Euro has meaningfully appreciated since the start of the year.
It was encouraging to see cushioning sales, increase slightly in the quarter and Amia cushioning has been the bread and butter for the Amia business and has been under significant pressure over the past few years, as energy markets have weighed on Industrial activity.
Getting this product line, stable to Growing would be a real positive for ramp pack.
North America enterprise accounts continue to drive solid volume, with growth of 14.8% in the region, leading to revenue growth of 12.2% net of $1.1 million warrant expense, which detracted 2.9 points from reported NOAM results.
The distribution channel in Noom was less robust in the second quarter, which also contributed to some margin pressure. We believe there was some noise in the channel following a paper Market disruption as Distributors are recalibrating their inventory levels and assessing the environment. We continue to feel very good about our commercial efforts in Noam and are looking to balance our Enterprise growth with a greater contribution from smaller higher, margin accounts.
On a positive note, North American automation is poised to really ramp up in the second half of the year as we ramp up our projects.
Gross profit declined, 12% in the quarter on a constant currency basis. And what if declined, 8.2% excluding the 1.2 million non-cash impact of Amazon warrants as lower sales in Europe and APAC combined with higher production costs, drove a 13%. Decline in gross profit in the region and unfavorable mix. And inefficiencies in North America contributed to a lower overall margin profile.
As Omar mentioned, we took actions to claw back input costs headwind in North America and the second quarter and believe the inefficiencies due to paper Market lead. Time disruption will be resolved in the second quarter.
If you normalize for warrants and what we view to be temporary and efficiencies gross profit overall would have been down 1% on a constant currency basis as those items. Contributed about 4.7 points of margin pressure,
Overall We believe We Will demonstrate Improvement in the Noam margin profile on the second half of the year as we get more efficient with our operations and our cost reductions take hold.
In Amia we're focused on driving volumes and increasing sales in the region.
As we turn around sales, there we expect that any flow through to profitability, should be highly beneficial to the overall margin profile of the business.
Lower gross profit from both geographies and slightly higher G&A drove a decline in adjusted data of 18.4% in the quarter, on a constant currency basis, or 12.4%, excluding the $1.2 million non-cash impact of Amazon warrants.
Moving to the balance sheet and liquidity. We completed the second quarter with a strong liquidity position.
We had a cash balance of 49.2 million and no drawings on our revolving credit facility, bring our reported net leverage to 4.6 times on an LTM basis and 3.8 times according to our bank leverage ratio.
As of June 30th, we are carrying 16.4 million more in inventory. Largely in North America to insulate ourselves and our customers from potential Paper Supply disruptions
Given the Improvement in the paper Market, we expect to reduce inventory in the second half and turn that working capital Into Cash.
We expect to build cache for the remainder of the Year. Given that seasonality of the business and improvements we will make on our cash conversion cycle. Overall, we are expecting to end the year with around 70 to 75 million in cash on the balance sheet.
Our credit facility is all USD. So we utilize cross-currency swaps to hedge 210 million of our capital structure. These swaps replace our USD exposure with, Euro exposure, reducing our currency risk, as it relates to Debt Service. And also enabling us to save interest expense by swapping our server exposure with Euro saving us interest on the hedged portion annually.
We generate more than half of our revenue and adjusted ebita in Europe and APAC so it's the extent, the Euro continues to rise against the dollar. Our profits and cash generated. There can be a powerful tool to help us deliver.
our capex for the quarter was 9.8 million in line with our expectations and with 7.9 million related to PPS converter spend
Capital expenditures of the area, most directly impacted by the evolving. Tariff landscape are spend on converters for use in Europe and APAC is not impacted but the converters we purchase and build for the US market rely on parts and units Source from China and other asia-pacific countries.
At this point, the Tariff levels in China are roughly in line with where we had budgeted the year.
We are in the process of evaluating our strategic sourcing options for converters globally and our focusing our efforts on minimizing impact on capex through a greater focus on ref fabrication and refurbishment of older converters in the field to reiterate from last quarter. While the environment around, this is obviously uncertain from a paper sourcing perspective. We expect minimal impact as we Source locally in our production areas.
1 final area to mention is that you continue to see war and expense impacting, our pnl
In the short term, these will have a meaningful impact on our p&l, but as we hopefully ramp our business with this customer, the impact will be far less pronounced on the comparisons again. These are all non-cash impacts so it would be added back to the statement of cash flows. But for reporting purposes, we must treat the warrants as a reduction in Revenue, which flows throughout the p&l with that. I'll turn it to Omar.
Thank you Bill. While the environment has been challenging, we have laid the groundwork for growth and expansion. Our work with large Enterprise customers is progressing. Well, and will be a meaningful source of growth for us for the upcoming years in PPS, as well as automation.
We have launched a new cushioning product recently that we believe will compete effectively with foam in place and contribute to an improved mixed profile as it wraps.
In automation, our Solutions are gaining traction globally and getting the attention of top talent in the industry.
Since the start of the year, we have attracted top-notch Personnel from some of our biggest competitors, because they have seen the breasts and value of our Solutions, as well as the dedication to Cutting Edge, Innovation and Partnerships.
We have coupled this best-in-class offering with excellent service and a growing reputation for reliability.
For the past 5 years or so, we have been building an automation startup inside a 50-year-old business.
The impact on our Consolidated profile has been negative. As we have invested in people. Innovation and systems ahead of scaling Revenue resulting in more than a 7 million dollar drag on ebitda for the past couple of years. I firmly believe the second half of this year is going to be the inflection point where you start to see it all come together though. And we as shareholders start to be rewarded for our patients automation is the future and Industrial Automation is at the early Innings of adoption and penetration.
As we exit this year, it'll become clear that we have 2 solid and really exciting businesses.
Our PPS business is the solid cash generating business. It has been known for generating, Topline growth of high single digits to low double digits with attractive. Margins automation is the opportunity for step change in growth going from north of 40 million in Revenue. Expected this year to a goal of 100 million plus annually. And from a 7 million drag on adjusted ebit da to a 20 million positive contributor annually. Assuming we achieve our targeted margin profile.
Even the contribution to adjusted, Evita.
This does not reflect the value of what we are building. We believe we have a major growth Engine with Cutting Edge, technology on the verge of profitability.
If you look at where some packaging automation, businesses have changed hands over the past couple of years and even if a few months ago, you would see there's a substantial hidden value here.
This in conjunction with our ownership, in pickle robot.
Rampac owns 8.8% of the leading robotic unloading company in the world.
Trailer unload is 1 of the hardest problems to solve in warehouses and pickle has successfully rolled out their solution to 1 of the largest and most demanding customers in the globe.
We participated in the latest financing for pickle in the second quarter because we see the traction. They are getting and love what they're doing.
We believe this ownership stake has substantial upside and as a shareholder ramp back, I'm thrilled to have this exposure.
We also believe pickle solution is very relevant to our Enterprise customers.
All this being said I recognize the start to the year has been slower and it is a challenging environment in the short term given the challenging start to the year and movements. In currency, we are updating our forward-looking guidance to reflect the latest operating environment and warn Outlook.
At a current approximate exchange rate of 1 15 US dollar to the euro. We're forecasting second half of this year, net revenue of 216 to 230 million and adjusted even though of 44.5 to 54.5 million, reflecting an estimated 4 million recognition of foreign expense over that period.
Using year-to-date actual results and the midpoint of the remaining gear guidance range. This implies total 2025 net revenue of 406.5 million which is within our original guidance and adjusted ebit of 83.3 million which is slightly below our original guidance.
This guidance reflects the expectation of a reported non-cash, net revenue and adjusted ebit da reduction of between 4 and 6 million in 2025 related to the recognition of foreign expense against Revenue.
While we have encountered headwinds to start the year, we believe rampac is. Well, positioned to whether the current environment due to the diversity of our operations and Global footprint, as well as the value added Solutions, we provide to businesses across the world.
We are building Partnerships this year that we believe position ramp back well for strong growth and increased scale in years to come.
At this point, we'd like to open the call up for questions. Operator.
Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star. Followed by the number 1 on the telephone keypad to withdraw any questions, press star 1 again.
We'll pause for just a moment to compile the Q&A roster.
Our first question comes from ganam, Punjabi from beard. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Thank you. Have a good morning everybody.
Good morning, gotcha.
Good morning Omar. Um, you know, I guess first off, um, you know, there's a ton of moving parts, right? You have obviously volume variability price. Mix, you know, FX Has Changed quite a bit, uh the impact of warrants and automation, Etc. So if you could just from a high level standpoint just give us the bridge on ebida between 2024 and 2025 which on a Consolidated basis based on the midpoint of your revised guidance looks basically flat year over year.
Yeah, gotcha. I can I can take that 1. Um, so versus last year, right? We're expecting volumes to be up call at high single digits or so.
Um, gross margin X depreciation, you're going to see the compression, right? So you'll see that that go lower by about 5 Points. Um, 1 to 1 and a half points of that, is related to the warrants, so that's about 5 million. Um, you know, off the top right that you're going against comparing last year, I would say the other pieces, um, that we just need to to bridge towards are the temporary inefficiencies that we talked about on the call. That's about 2 points of pressure and then the remaining, um, you know, pressure is a little bit of mix, right? So, but 2 million in pressure from the mea pack region. Um, you know, we'd expected that to be up a little bit um versus prior year. Now we're expecting that to be pressure on EBA by about 2 million in no way, we're expecting that to be up um, you know, versus prior year even with the warrant expense. So you know that's kind of the, the high level I think building blocks for you.
And then things sort of moderated. Apparently. So, what's, what's been going on in the region?
Yeah, in Europe in particular, um, I I think you're spot on um, early indications in April were okay. And then we started seeing more, you know, more softness in Europe, as the quarter progressed. Uh, and then you see where we ended up, uh, a bit flattish and obviously, given that's, uh, you know, our, our most profitable region that really impacted the second quarter. Uh, July, we started seeing volume growth again in Europe.
Um, it is really hard to obviously, tell you, it's the beginning of a trend. Uh, we do think the Tariff if you will. Uh, discussion is going to be helpful. I mean, we saw a lot of nervousness with CEOs with companies with our customers and Distributors, many of them gone from are holding very, very little inventory and not investing in working capital, uh, so clearly having some clarity around tariffs may help. Uh, and so of, we'll see, uh, how things progress in August and in September. Uh, but again, we saw volume increases in in July year over year, which we think is a good sign. Let's see how the quarter progresses before we call it a trend.
Okay, thanks for that. And then lastly you know on the gross margin decline for 2q, I think it was 540 basis, points year-over-year. You called our product mix in North America, you know, can you just give us a sense as to how much of that, uh, how much was that on an impact relative to that 540 and will that be the new Baseline going forward? Giving you a strategic time with Amazon and, you know, building partnership over the years.
Yeah, so gone. I think if you look at kind of the the different moving pieces in in the quarter, right about 4.7 points of the margin pressure that you saw was related to either the warrants or uh, what we would consider. You know some of those temporary 1-off items that we've you know, been addressing throughout the year. If you exclude depreciation, you know, margins would have been, you know, 43 and a half versus 47.6 in the prior year. Um, as we did get a bit of a benefit from depreciation expense. So, you know, you did see some margin pressure there. Um, you know, I would say if you look at the items that created the margin pressure, the warrants were about 1.3 points and again, that's non-cash, um, you know, the restructuring and, and, and those issues that we've been working through in the footprint optimization, that was about another point and a half. Um, and then we also had, you know, some above Market, you know, temporary storage costs that we've since uh, resolved in in August. So that was about another point of pressure. So we've been working on the, the book of of business with that large customer, right? And think that we've made some good margin enhancements.
To that book in the second half, um, just through through optimization of freight and and sourcing. So we do expect to see some margin Improvement. Um, you know, building beginning in Q3
It it's important again just to reiterate what what Bill said Gham to highlight that on freight and storage and Warehouse. A lot of that at this point.
Is completed and done to help sort of recover the margin. So these are not things that we're still working on these things that at this point in Q3, they're completed and done. Uh, and they clearly had the negative impact on the first 6 months of the year.
Okay, thanks for that. And then Bill. Did you did you um, update us on free cash flow as well versus your initial expectation? Thanks so much.
Yeah, gotcha. And I think, you know this year, just given the the start, right? And the, the lower I estimate and some of these inefficiencies that we've been talking about, which are, you know, obviously cash. Um, cash costs for us, you know, we're looking to finish the year in that 70 to 75 million of cash range. Um, you know, versus at the beginning of the year when we were expecting, you know, to build cache, right? And and being, you know, 15 to 20 million higher. So, we are still expecting to pay down about 4 million in debt this year, which is lower than our original expectations, but we're continuing to chip away at it. Um, but overall, our expected to be about flattish and I think the biggest moving pieces there are are again the, the evida, um, you know, the inefficiencies and then also, you know, some working capital assumptions, I think going into this year we're expecting about, you know, a 3 to 4 million uh source of
Working capital at this point, you know, we're expecting it still to be a slight use. Just given, uh, you know, where we are in some of the discussions that we have with customers, um, on on contracts.
Our next question comes from Greg Palm from Craig, Hallam Capital group. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Appreciate some of the caller you gave on on July so far, but maybe just some some factors that that give you confidence and and that PPS, uh, business stepping up in the in the second half in order to kind of achieve that Outlook.
Yeah, sure. Let me start and then I'll have Bill uh fill in a number 1. We still have a number of in particular in North America. Large Enterprise wins.
Uh, that are either installed or that were installed in as we speak that we think are going to help us uh, in this upcoming holiday and peak season. Uh, so we continue to have some large wins that, we think are going to drive volume, uh, which will be helpful in terms of the second half of the year. Uh, we talked a little bit about Europe where again, July seems a little bit healthier and now hopefully, and again, this is not within our control but if the Tariff and trade picture is a little bit more stable, we're hoping that that will inject some stability and predictability in Europe that could drive some volume. And then we're also seeing some wins in Asia Pacific, um, you know, in Japan for instance and a couple of other markets that we think could drive some of the volume Trends. And in many cases, you know, these things are either existing installs or things that were installing as we seek in anticipation uh of sort of the peak season.
Well, I don't know if you want to chime in on this. Yeah I think um just a couple things right is Omar pointed out. We've had some good Enterprise uh account success um over the past year with certain installs, right? Even some at the beginning of this year that we expect, we'll have a nice contribution during peak season, um, for North America. So we are expecting, you know, North America to be up a little bit versus prior year. Um, even with, you know, the the tougher comparison just given the contribution from from those accounts in Europe. You know, we're expecting a it to be slightly up given, you know, a little bit more improved. Um, you know, Outlook and and just some certainty in the markets. And then, as you pointed out, right automation, right is the big, the big growth driver, um, from a, from a contribution, standpoint year-over-year in the second half versus prior. And I think we feel really good about the, the backlog, their most of that business is contracted, um, at this point. So, um, you know, we feel good about that that ramp
There are 2 things. If I may add that I want to highlight on automation 1 as Bill said, you know, the backlog is robust. The majority of it is contracted already, we're just building and and trying to install and deliver the equipment. So we have very good visibility for the second half of the year. And then, as I mentioned in the opening comments, we are working on our pretty close on signing, a multi-year deal with 1 of the larger customers, um, in North America, uh, where they would be buying equipment from us for the next couple of years, that would consume the bulk of our capacity in Connecticut. So this will be a contract that's
North of a 100 million of equipment that we're working on that we believe will be announcing in the upcoming weeks. Um, and we've been working on this for the last number of years, all the testing validation, and if initial installs are all done, uh, and that is giving us quite a bit of confidence and boost for the second half of of, of the year.
Okay. Yeah that uh sounds sounds very promising. I guess just sticking with with automation um just being that 5 million drag on on IBA to start the year. I guess. Assuming you hit that midpoint for for full year. Um automation you know what does that drag look like for the second half are are we still seeing a drag or is there a quarterly Break Even point? That we may hit or any other detail, you can give their
yeah, Danny. I I would say, you know, you'll have a little bit of a drag and Q3 and then you should be about Break Even in Q4, which is really great to see, that's something we've been working towards for 4 long time and you know getting that business to scale will be huge for us from a Consolidated Financial profile standpoint.
Okay, that sounds good. I will leave it there for now.
We have no further questions. I'd like to turn the call back over to Bill Drew for any closing remarks.
Great. Thank you Julian and thank you all for joining us. Look forward to catching up for Q3
Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.