Q2 2025 Aimia Earnings Call
Operator: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to Aimia Inc.'s second quarter 2025 results conference call. At this time, online is in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. If at any time during this call you require immediate assistance, please press the star zero for the operator. This call is being recorded on Thursday, August 14, 2025. I would now like to turn the conference over to Joe Racanelli. Please go ahead.
Speaker #1: Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. If at any time during this call you require immediate assistance, please press the star zero for the operator.
Speaker #1: This call is being recorded on Thursday, August 14th, 2025. I would now like to turn the conference over to Joe Racanelli, please go ahead.
Speaker #3: Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. Joining me on today's call are Aimia's executive chairman, Rhys Summerton, and our president and CFO, Steven Leonard.
Joe Racanelli: Thank you, operator, and good morning, everyone. Joining me on today's call are Aimia's Executive Chairman, Rhys Summerton, and our President and CFO, Steven Leonard. Before we begin, I would like to make note of the following: we issued our financial results for the second quarter earlier this morning. All of our materials, including our news release, MD&A, and financial statements, are available from our website as well as SEDAR Plus. We will be using a presentation today, and for those listening to the call by phone, a copy is available from the IR section of our website. Some of the statements made on today's call may constitute forward-looking information, and our future results may differ materially from what we discuss.
Speaker #3: Before we begin, I'd like to make note of the following: we issued our financial results for the second quarter earlier this morning. All of our materials, including our news release, MD&A, and financial statements, are available from our website as well as Cedar+.
Speaker #3: We will be using a presentation today, and for those listening to the call by phone, a copy is available from the IR section of our website.
Speaker #3: Some of the statements made on today's call may constitute forward-looking information, and our future results may differ materially from what we discuss. Please refer to the risks and uncertainties that may affect our future performance referenced in our presentation and discussion today, in our MD&A as well as in the annual information form filed on Cedar+.
Joe Racanelli: Please refer to the risks and uncertainties that may affect our future performance referenced in our presentation and discussion today in our MD&A as well as in the annual information form filed on SEDAR Plus. In addition, we will be making note of GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliation of these numbers is provided in the appendix of our presentation and as well was also included in our press release. Following today's presentation, please reach out if you do have any outstanding questions or require clarification on any of the matters discussed today. Rhys, please go ahead.
Speaker #3: In addition, we will be making note of gap and non-gap financial measures. Reconciliation of these numbers is provided in the appendix of our presentation.
Speaker #3: And as well was also included in our press release. Following today's presentation, please reach out if you do have any outstanding questions or require clarification on any of the matters discussed today.
Speaker #3: Rhys, please go ahead.
Speaker #4: Thanks, Joe. Well, good morning, good afternoon, good evening. To our shareholders and those taking an interest in Aimia, thank you for joining us today.
Rhys Summerton: Thanks, Joe. Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to our shareholders and those taking an interest in Aimia Inc. Thank you for joining us today. The second quarter results, I think we would describe as solid. There was progress across the board and particularly in areas that are under our control. If you have gone through the numbers, you would have seen that our key financial metrics experienced growth, which was good. When it comes to our three-step strategy, I think what we were really happy with was the reduction in the holdco costs guidance down to $9 million for the year. We achieved a number of important milestones regarding the share buyback program, which was renewed, and there was also the settlement with the CRA, which will lead to a total refund of $33 million. That all was good progress.
Speaker #4: The second quarter results I think we were described as solid. There was progress across the board, and particularly in areas that are under our control.
Speaker #4: So, if you have gone through the numbers, you would have seen that our key financial metrics experienced growth, which was good. And then when it comes to our three-step strategy, I think what we were really happy with was the reduction in the whole co-cost guidance down to $9 million for the year.
Speaker #4: We achieved a number of important milestones regarding the share buyback program, which was renewed and there was also the settlement with the CRA. Which will lead to a total refund of 33 million dollars.
Speaker #4: So that all was good progress. I think we will talk a little bit more about the strategy and some of our priorities in the near term and the medium term.
Rhys Summerton: I think we will talk a little bit more about the strategy and some of our priorities in the near term and the medium term. I think what I would like now to do is to hand over to Steve, who will take you through the key financial results and the operating highlights for the second quarter.
Speaker #4: But I think what I'd like now to do is to hand over to Steve, who will take you through the key financial results and the operating highlights for the second quarter.
Speaker #5: Thank you, Rhys. Good morning, everyone. I'd like to begin my remarks with the review of our consolidated results. As you'll note from slide seven, Q2 was marked by improvements to a number of our key financial metrics, despite growing economic uncertainty triggered by the onset of the new US tariffs.
Joe Racanelli: Thank you, Rhys. Good morning, everyone. I would like to begin my remarks with a review of our consolidated results. As you will note from slide seven, Q2 was marked by improvements to a number of our key financial metrics despite growing economic uncertainty triggered by the onset of the new U.S. tariffs. Worth noting, consolidated revenue grew 5% to $128.7 million. Gross profit was up 11% to $34.9 million. SG&A expenses declined by 33% to $25.9 million, and adjusted EBITDA increased to $19.7 million from $12.3 million. Our improvements on a year-over-year basis were largely due to stronger performance by Cortland International, reduced holdco costs, including the absence of shareholder activism costs incurred last year, and the positive impact of foreign currency fluctuations relative to the Canadian dollar.
Speaker #5: Worth noting, consolidated revenue grew 5% to $128.7 million; gross profit was up 11% to $34.9 million; SG&A expenses declined by 33% to $25.9 million; and adjusted EBITDA increased to $19.7 million from $12.3 million.
Speaker #5: Our improvements on a year-over-year basis were largely due to stronger performance by Cortland, reduced whole co-costs, including the absence of shareholder activism costs incurred last year, and the positive impact of foreign currency fluctuations relative to the Canadian dollar.
Speaker #5: Our results through June 30 and our outlook for the balance of the year are the reasons behind our decision to reiterate guidance for adjusted EBITDA for our core holdings and lower our whole co-cost target.
Joe Racanelli: Our results through June 30 and our outlook for the balance of the year are the reasons behind our decision to reiterate guidance for adjusted EBITDA for our core holdings and lower our holdco cost target. I will expand on our guidance later in my remarks. Turning to our core holdings, starting with Bozzetto, on slide eight, the results of our sustainable specialty chemicals business in Q2 were consistent with its performance in recent quarters as management was able to adapt to the changing market dynamics and still generate increased profitability. In Q2 2025, Bozzetto generated revenue of $90.9 million, up from $87.4 million for the same period last year. On a constant currency basis, Bozzetto’s revenue was down 2% or $2.1 million. The decline was due to lower volumes sold by the textile solutions sector as a result of market uncertainty associated with the pending implementation of U.S.
Speaker #5: I'll expand on our guidance later in my remarks. Turning to our core holdings, starting with Bizetto on slide eight, the results of our specialty chemical business in Q2 were consistent with its performance in recent quarters, as management was able to adapt to the changing market dynamics and still generate increased profitability.
Speaker #5: In Q2 25, Bizetto generated revenue of 90.9 million, up from 87.4 million for the same period last year. On a constant currency basis, Bizetto's revenue was down two percent or 2.1 million.
Speaker #5: The decline was due to lower volumes sold by the textile solutions sector, as a result of market uncertainty associated with the pending implementation of US tariffs on Asian imports.
Joe Racanelli: tariffs on Asian imports, particularly in Bangladesh, where Bozzetto sells into. The revenue decline was partially offset by improved pricing and product mix as Bozzetto’s dispersion solutions sector, which primarily serves plasterboard, agrochemical, and concrete markets outside of the U.S. In Q2 2025, Bozzetto generated adjusted EBITDA of $16.9 million, which represents a margin of 18.6%. In the same period last year, Bozzetto generated adjusted EBITDA of $15.1 million and a margin of 17.3%. The improvements were driven by the favorable foreign currency and reduced SG&A costs. Cortland International’s results for the second quarter are presented on slide nine. Cortland International grew revenue in Q2 2025 by 8% on a year-over-year basis to $37.8 million. On a constant currency basis, Cortland International increased its revenue by $2.4 million or 6.9%.
Speaker #5: Particularly in Bangladesh, where Bizetto sells into. The revenue decline was partially offset by improved pricing and product mix. As Bizetto's dispersion solution sector, which primarily serves plasterboard, agrochemical, and concrete markets, outside of the US.
Speaker #5: In Q2 2025, Bizetto generated adjusted EBITDA of $16.9 million, which represents a margin of 18.6 percent. In the same period last year, Bizetto generated adjusted EBITDA of $15.1 million and a margin of 17.3 percent.
Speaker #5: The improvements were driven by the favorable foreign currency and reduced SG&A costs. Cortland's results for the second quarter are presented on slide nine. Cortland grew revenue in Q2 25 by eight percent on a year-over-year basis to 37.8 million.
Speaker #5: On a constant currency basis, Cortland increased its revenue by 2.4 million or 6.9 percent. The growth was driven by increased market demand and improved product mix, including the higher volumes of higher performance rope sales.
Joe Racanelli: The growth was driven by increased market demand and improved product mix, including the higher volumes of higher performance rope sales. Cortland International sales grew despite some economic uncertainties created by the latest round of pending U.S. tariffs. Cortland International adjusted EBITDA grew by 36% to $4.9 million, while adjusted EBITDA margin improved to 13% in Q2 2025. The improvements were largely driven by higher gross profit offset by higher SG&A costs associated with an expanded sales force, excluding the non-recurring $1.2 million of professional and advisory fees that were incurred in the same period last year. We ended the second quarter with $70.5 million of cash, down from $94.7 million at the end of Q1. Slide 10 shows a waterfall of the cash movements in Q2. In the quarter, we generated $9.4 million in operating cash flow and received $2.7 million from a loan repayment from Kognitiv.
Speaker #5: Cortland's sales grew despite some economic uncertainties created by the latest round of pending U.S. tariffs. Cortland's adjusted EBITDA grew by 36 percent to $4.9 million, while the adjusted EBITDA margin improved to 13 percent in Q2 2025.
Speaker #5: The improvements were largely driven by higher gross profit, offset by higher SG&A costs associated with an expanded sales force. Excluding the non-recurring $1.2 million of professional and advisory fees that were incurred in the same period last year.
Speaker #5: We ended the second quarter with 70.5 million of cash, down from 94.7 million at the end of Q1. Slide 10 shows a waterfall of the cash movements in Q2.
Speaker #5: In the quarter we generated 9.4 million in operating cash flow, and received 2.7 million from a loan repayment from Cognitive. Cash outflows in Q2 included 9.4 million of senior Bizetto debt payments, of which 6.3 were voluntary, 8.2 related to the buyback of common shares, 6.4 million of interest payments related to the 2030 notes, and 5.2 million of interest payments on Bizetto's credit facilities, and 3.7 million of capital expenditures.
Joe Racanelli: Cash outflows in Q2 included $9.4 million of senior Bozzetto debt payments, of which $6.3 million were voluntary, $8.2 million related to the buyback of common shares, $6.4 million of interest payments related to the 2030 notes, $5.2 million of interest payments on Bozzetto's credit facilities, and $3.7 million of capital expenditures. Looking at our liquidity more closely, slide 11 shows a breakdown of our cash position by segment at the end of June. Over the next 12 months, our cash requirements will include less than $9 million of holdco costs, $13.9 million of interest payments for our 2030 senior notes, $10.5 million of senior debt principal repayments on Bozzetto's debt, and $9.6 million of Bozzetto's interest payments.
Speaker #5: Looking at our liquidity more closely, slide 11 shows a breakdown of our cash position by segment at the end of June. Over the next 12 months, our cash requirements will include less than nine million of whole co-costs, 13.9 million of interest payments for our 2030 senior notes, 10.5 million of senior debt principal repayments on Bizetto's debt, 9.6 million of Bizetto's interest payments.
Speaker #5: I should point out that our June 30 liquidity totals exclude the anticipated 33 million tax refund we're expecting from government agencies, and our cash requirements do not reflect the expected operating cash flow over the next 12 months from the businesses.
Joe Racanelli: I should point out that our June 30 liquidity totals exclude the anticipated $33 million tax refund we're expecting from government agencies, and our cash requirements do not reflect the expected operating cash flow over the next 12 months from the businesses. Through the six-month period, Bozzetto and Cortland International generated $44.2 million of adjusted EBITDA on a combined basis, putting us on track to reach our guidance for 2025. Despite the emergence of economic uncertainties related to trade barriers, we remain cautiously optimistic about our outlook. It's why, as mentioned earlier, we are reiterating our guidance for the year. As illustrated on slide 12, we continue to forecast adjusted EBITDA in 2025 to be in the range of $88 million to $95 million for our core holdings on a combined basis, albeit at the lower end of the scale.
Speaker #5: Through the six-month period, Bizetto and Cortland generated 44.2 million of adjusted EBITDA on a combined basis. Putting us on track to reach our guidance for 2025.
Speaker #5: Despite the emergence of economic uncertainties related to trade barriers, we remain cautiously optimistic about our outlook. It's why, as mentioned earlier, we are reiterating our guidance for the year.
Speaker #5: As illustrated on slide 12, we continue to forecast adjusted EBITDA in 2025 to be in the range of 88 to 95 million for our core holdings, on a combined basis, albeit at the lower end of the scale.
Speaker #5: We will, of course, monitor these macroeconomic developments and adjust our outlook if necessary. Given our progress at lowering whole co-costs through June, and our belief that we will sustain this momentum through the end of the year, we are lowering our target from 11 million to 9 million.
Joe Racanelli: We will, of course, monitor these macroeconomic developments and adjust our outlook if necessary. Given our progress at lowering holdco costs through June and our belief that we will sustain this momentum through the end of the year, we are lowering our target from $11 million to $9 million. Some of these cost savings we have made so far include reduced audit and professional fees, relocating our Montreal office to a lower rent facility, and reduced compensation expense stemming from the optimization of our board earlier this year. That concludes the summary of the financial results. I would like to turn the call back over to Rhys for closing remarks. Rhys?
Speaker #5: Some of these cost savings we have made so far include reduced audit and professional fees. Relocating our Montreal office to a lower rent facility and reduced compensation expense stemming from the optimization of our board earlier this year.
Speaker #5: That concludes the summary of the financial results. I'd like to turn this back, the call back over to Rhys for closing remarks. Rhys?
Speaker #4: Thanks, Steve. The following my appointment as executive chairman at the end of the first quarter, we rolled out a three-point strategy. And just a reminder about that, the three points were reduce whole co-costs, reduce the discount Aimia shares, trade, relative to intrinsic value, and three, allocate capital effectively was the goal of eventually utilizing the tax loss carry forwards.
Rhys Summerton: Thanks, Steve. Following my appointment as Executive Chairman at the end of the first quarter, we rolled out a three-point strategy. Just a reminder about the three points: reduce holdco costs, reduce the discount Aimia shares paid relative to intrinsic value, and allocate capital effectively with the goal of eventually utilizing the tax loss carryforwards. I think over the past four months, we have made fairly good progress on the first two priorities. Firstly, we achieved the $1.4 million of cost-cutting initiatives in Q2. We have kept our holdco costs from continuing to grow, and we have actually reduced the anticipated spend down from $11 million down to $9 million, as Steve remarked upon. We have renewed the share buyback, which will run through to the end of June 2026 at the latest.
Speaker #4: And I think over the past four months we have made a fairly good progress on the first two priorities. Firstly, we achieved the 1.4 million of cost-cutting initiatives in Q2, we've kept our whole co-costs from continuing to grow, and we've actually reduced the anticipated spend down from 11 million down to 9 million as Steve remarked upon.
Speaker #4: And we've renewed the share buyback, which will run through to the end of June 2026 at the latest. So this progress, I think, has allowed us to initiate efforts on our third step, which is really the exciting part.
Rhys Summerton: This progress, I think, has allowed us to initiate efforts on our third step, which is really the exciting part. It is about deploying capital, looking at new investments, and we might get there sooner than I probably initially anticipated us getting to this point. More specifically, we have made good progress on determining the market value of our core holdings and also understanding how we can get the best value for them. While we do not have any specifics to share with you today, and I kind of sympathize how irritating that might be, as soon as we do have something to share, we will obviously update our shareholders and the market. If you go to slide 15, I think it demonstrates, and we keep this updated on a monthly basis, the number of shares outstanding.
Speaker #4: It's about deploying capital looking at new investments, and we might get there sooner than probably initially anticipated us getting to this point. More specifically, we've made good progress on determining the market value of our core holdings, and also understanding how we can get the best value for them.
Speaker #4: While we don't have any specifics to share with you today, and I kind of sympathize how irritating that might be, as soon as we do have something to share, we will obviously update our shareholders and the market.
Speaker #4: If you go to slide 15, I think it demonstrates, and we keep this updated on a monthly basis, the number of shares outstanding. I think what you would see there is that we're down to about 91 million shares, and largely, we've been able to reverse some of the issuance that happened in the past.
Rhys Summerton: I think what you would see there, we are down to about 91 million shares. Largely, we have been able to reverse some of the poor issuance that happened in the past. We will continue to execute on the share buyback program while it makes sense. I think you would have noted that we have continued with our renewal of the share buyback on the NCRB, which, as I said, will run through until June 2026. On slide 16, this is the updated valuation metrics slide. We have added one line item to this, and that is we have now been able to take that tax deposit, which you would see there is now $33 million. That is going to come through shortly. We have added also this focus on book value or net book value attributable to common shareholders.
Speaker #4: And we will continue to execute on the share buyback program while it makes sense, and I think you would have noted that we continued with our renewal of the share buyback on the NCRB, which as I said will run through until June 2026.
Speaker #4: Then on slide 16, this is the updated valuation metrics slide. We have added one line item to this, and that is we've now been able to take that tax deposit, which you would see is now $33 million, so that's going to come through shortly.
Speaker #4: And we've added also this focus on book value or net book value. Attributable to common shareholders. And we've done that because we expect our performance in the future will be able to be better measured based on the growth in that number.
Rhys Summerton: We have done that because we expect our performance in the future will be able to be better measured based on the growth in that number. This book value or balance sheet book value number is not the same as intrinsic value or net asset value. If you take the great capital allocation machines in the world, they kind of use this book value number. We thought we would highlight it from this quarter so that it can be monitored going forward. If you look at the net book value per common share over time on slide 17, you can see that there hasn't been all that much progress in the past. It's kind of been the reverse of that. Then we had, in the first quarter 2025, we completed the substantial issuer bid, and that realized a gain of $54 million.
Speaker #4: So, just to reiterate, this book value or balance sheet book value number is not the same as intrinsic value or net asset value. However, if you take the great capital allocation machines in the world, they tend to use this book value number. We thought we would highlight it from this quarter so that it can be monitored going forward.
Speaker #4: If you look at the net book value per common share over time on slide 17, you can see that there hasn't been all that much progress in the past.
Speaker #4: It's kind of been the reverse of that. But then, in the first quarter of 2025, we completed the substantial issuer bid, and that realized a gain of $54 million.
Speaker #4: And we kind of intend to reverse the historic performance so that this metric can grow as we create value for shareholders. Going forward, we anticipate enhancing our disclosure by reporting our net asset value per share and our estimate of intrinsic value per share.
Rhys Summerton: We kind of intend to reverse the historic performance so that this metric can grow as we create value for shareholders. Going forward, we anticipate enhancing our disclosure by reporting our net asset value per share and our estimate of intrinsic value per share. We think that will be really helpful to shareholders to monitor the discount to NAV per share. As you have heard, Q2 was marked by an improvement in a number of financial metrics. We've made progress on that three-step strategy, which we outlined in prior quarters. When taken as a whole, our performance in Q2 puts us firmly on the path of becoming a sustainable permanent capital vehicle. We still want our holdco costs down. We reiterate that longer term, we still want to get to 1.5% and below of our equity value. There's still work to do, but we're making good progress.
Speaker #4: We think that it will be really helpful for shareholders to monitor the discount to NAV per share. So, as you have heard, Q2 was marked by an improvement in a number of financial metrics.
Speaker #4: And we've made progress on the three-step strategy, which we outlined in prior quarters. When taken as a whole, our performance in Q2 puts us firmly on the path of becoming a sustainable permanent capital vehicle.
Speaker #4: We still want our whole co-costs down, you know, we reiterate that longer term we still want to get to 1.5 percent and below of our equity value.
Speaker #4: So there's still work to do, but we're making good progress. Our focus over the next 12 to 18 months will be to sustain this momentum and continue to execute on our three-step strategy.
Rhys Summerton: Our focus over the next 12 to 18 months will be to sustain this momentum and continue to execute on our three-step strategy. In the near term, we will continue to focus on holdco costs, continue with our share buyback program, and continue on that step three, which will be getting confidence on the underlying value of our holdings and how we can best allocate that capital. We look forward to providing updates on that progress as soon as we can. Thank you for your time today. We'd love to hear your questions.
Speaker #4: In the near term, we will continue to focus on whole co-costs, continue with our share buyback program, and continue on that step three, which will be getting confidence on the underlying value of our holdings, and how we can best allocate that capital.
Speaker #4: We look forward to providing updates on that progress as soon as we can. Thank you for your time today, and we'd love to hear your questions.
Speaker #1: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.
Operator: Thank you, Aimia. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your headset before pressing the keys. To withdraw your question, please press star two. With that, our first question comes from the line of Surinder Tind with Jaffrey. Please go ahead.
Speaker #6: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We will now begin the question and answer session. To ask a question, you may press the star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
Speaker #6: If you're using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. To withdraw your question, please press the star two. With that, our first question comes from the line of Surinder Tindwid, Jeffries, please go ahead.
Speaker #7: Thank you. If we take a step back and think about getting value for the assets, we should consider the strategic options here. How do you evaluate the actual value that you're getting in the current environment?
Speaker 7: Thank you. If we take a step back and we think about getting value for the assets, we think about the strategic options here. How do you think about the actual value that you are getting in the current environment in terms of is it okay that you get what you get that is fair in the current environment, or are there options here where maybe if there is a bigger delta than you would like to see that you would want to wait, or how do we think about the different options there?
Speaker #7: In terms of whether it's acceptable to get what you get, is that fair in the current environment? Or are there options here where, maybe if there's a bigger delta, you would like to see that you would want to wait?
Speaker #7: Or how do we think about the different options there?
Speaker #2: Yes, thanks. I think that's an excellent question, and it's one that I've spent a lot of time on. Now, if you mentioned taking a step back, I'm going to ask you to take a step back as well for a second.
Rhys Summerton: Yeah, thanks. I think that's an excellent question, and it's one that I spent a lot of time on. Now, if you know, you mentioned taking a step back, and I am going to ask you to take a step back as well for a second because if you just think back to where Aimia Inc. was heading a couple of months ago, there were kind of no real solutions to what to do with Aimia Inc. I think that's what I picked up when I was, you know, before I took on this role. Now that we know where we are going, I think it's a really good question to kind of consider what is the best possible outcome for these assets. All the way through, I have indicated that what we try to do is get to the best market value for them.
Speaker #2: Because if you just think back to where Aimia was heading, a couple of months ago, there were kind of no real solutions to what to do with Aimia.
Speaker #2: I think that's what I've picked up when I was, you know, before I took on this role. Now that we know where we're going, I think it's a really good question to kind of consider what is the best possible outcome for these assets.
Speaker #2: And all the way through, I've indicated that what we tried to do is get to the best market value for them. And the more we get to know them, and also the environment we're in, the more we kind of understand what we need to do to get to that best value for them.
Rhys Summerton: The more we get to know them and also the environment we are in, the more we kind of understand what we need to do to get to that best value for them. So in some cases, it might be that now is a good time to create value. In other cases, it might be that we see multiples of the current market or the current valuation that's on the balance sheet as being realizable if we made a few adjustments to the assets. I would just say sort of from an outsider's point of view that I would say, you know, all our core assets, I would say, are better than I thought they were before I was involved with Aimia Inc.
Speaker #2: So in some cases, it might be that, you know, now is a good time to create value. In other cases, it might be that we see multiples of the current market, or the current valuation that's on the balance sheet as being realizable if we made a few adjustments to the assets.
Speaker #2: And you know, I would just say, sort of from an outsider's point of view, that I would say, you know, all our core assets are better than I thought they were before I was involved with Aimia.
Speaker #2: You know, it's just my personal view, but I kind of have the outsider view and the insider view, and I would say that they are better quality businesses with brighter futures than I initially anticipated.
Rhys Summerton: It's just my personal view, but I kind of have the outside of you and the inside of you, and I would say that they are better quality businesses with brighter futures than I initially anticipated. So a very long answer, but the point is that we don't have to sell any asset right now, but it might make sense to create value because there's the other side of the coin. The other side of the coin is what we can do with that capital that we might raise. You know, those are very exciting opportunities which are kind of salivated on a daily basis.
Speaker #2: So a very long answer, but the point is that we don't have to sell any asset right now. But it might make sense to, you know, create value because there's the other side of the coin, and the other side of the coin is what we can do with that capital that we might raise.
Speaker #2: And you know, those are very exciting opportunities, which I kind of salivated on a daily basis. So I'm looking forward to the future of Aimia.
Rhys Summerton: So I am looking forward to the future of Aimia Inc., but I would say that you should be rest assured we will make the best decision possible, and we are in a very strong position to make those decisions now that we know what the strategy is of Aimia Inc.
Speaker #2: But I would say that, you know, you should be rest assured, we will make the best decision possible. And we are in a very strong position to make those decisions now that we know what the strategy is of Aimia.
Speaker #7: That's helpful. And then maybe one more question, just on the NCIB, just any color on how we should think about the cadence on a go-forward basis over the next 12 months, or anything there that you can provide that would be helpful?
Speaker 7: That's helpful. Then maybe one more question just on the CRA. Just any color on how we should think about the cadence on a go-forward basis over the next 12 months or anything there that you can provide that would be helpful?
Speaker #2: Yes, I wouldn't want to talk too much about that. I think we've made the disclosure we can make. And what we've done just to make sure shareholders are kept abreast of the developments is on a monthly basis, you'll see how many shares we were able to execute on.
Rhys Summerton: Yes, I wouldn't want to talk too much about that. I think we've made the disclosure we can make. What we've done, just to make sure shareholders are kept abreast of the developments, is on a monthly basis, you'll see how many shares we are able to execute on. We continue to do that. There's no change to that strategy, and it does run until June 26th. I would think that we will get there a little bit sooner, but we can't really say too much more about that because we don't want anybody to game the number of shares we're buying back with what's happening in the company.
Speaker #2: And we continue to do that. You know, there's no change to that strategy. And it does run until June 26, I would think that we will get there a little bit sooner.
Speaker #2: But you know, we can't really say too much more about that because we don't want anybody to game the number of shares we're buying back with what's happening in the company.
Speaker #7: Of Of course. And then I'll speak in one more just on Cortland when we think about just the revenues over the past, you know, year plus, and the how much of this is, do you think it's tariff-related?
Speaker 7: Of course. Then I'll sneak in one more just on Cortland. When we think about just the revenues over the past year plus, how much of this do you think is tariff-related? How much is just other, what I would call, global changes in the business itself? It just seems like revenues have been pressured for quite some time. When I think about where Q3 was, then Q4, then Q1, and now Q2, what is the normalized level here that we should be thinking about?
Speaker #7: How much is just other what I would call global changes in the business itself? It just seems like revenues have been pressured for quite some time.
Speaker #7: And when I think about where Q3 was and then Q4, and then Q1, and now Q2, what is the normalized level here that we should be thinking about?
Speaker #2: So So there's good revenue and there's not so good revenue. When you look at it, there's, you know, I would say good revenue is high margin revenue.
Rhys Summerton: There is good revenue and there is not so good revenue. When you look at it, there is, I would say, good revenue is high margin revenue, and not so good revenue is revenue you do not want to fight too hard for. The way I kind of look at Cortland International, particularly during this kind of tariff-related headwinds and some uncertainty around the world, the way I look at it is, is Cortland International gaining market share or losing market share? I think we are fairly confident that Cortland International is not losing market share anyway, that we do not want to lose. There might be some bottlenecks in growing market share, particularly in some of the high margin revenues that we are looking at.
Speaker #2: And not so good revenue is revenue you don't want to fight too hard for. The way I kind of look at Cortland particularly during this kind of tariff-related issues and some uncertainty around the world, the way I look at it is, you know, is Cortland gaining market share or losing market share?
Speaker #2: And I think we fairly confident that Cortland is not losing market share anywhere. That we don't want to lose. So there might be some bottlenecks in growing market share, particularly in some of the high margin revenues that we're looking at.
Speaker #2: But on the whole, we kind of satisfied that we will get to an inflection over the next quarter. And you'll see revenue stabilize and then start to pick up again.
Rhys Summerton: On the whole, we kind of satisfy that we will get to an inflection over the next quarter, and you will see revenue stabilize and then start to pick up again. Like I said, there is nothing that causes me any concern there because I think if you look at our market share, our market share is actually, at least our estimated market share, I would say, is stable, if not improving, in the areas that we want to compete in.
Speaker #2: But you know, like I said, there's nothing that causes me any concern there because I think if you look at our market share, our market share is actually at least our estimated market share, I would say is stable, if not improving, in the areas that we want to compete in.
Speaker #7: That's helpful. I appreciate the color. Thank you.
Speaker 7: is helpful. I appreciate the color. Thank you.
Speaker #6: And your next question comes from the line of Ryan Morrison with TD Cowan. Please go ahead.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Morrison with TD Cowan. Please go ahead.
Speaker #8: Oh, thank you. Good morning. Steve, just a housekeeping question to start with. What is the reason behind the delay in the receipt of the tax refund?
Speaker 7: Oh, thank you. Good morning. Steve, just a housekeeping question to start with. What is the reason behind the delay in the receipt of the tax refund? Is there any probability of any change, a potential probability of receipt, or do you feel pretty good that it's going to be coming through?
Speaker #8: Is there any probability of any change in the potential probability of receipt, or do you feel pretty good that it's going to be coming through? Hi, Brian.
Steven Leonard: Hi, Brian. No, we feel we, you know, there's two parts to it. There's about $27 million that we expect from the Canada Revenue Agency and around $6 million from Revenue Quebec. We expect the Canada Revenue Agency piece to come in a short timeframe, likely within this quarter. The Revenue Quebec will be a little bit longer just because they have to follow, they have to understand the terms of the settlement, and we're working on that. So that will take a few more months, probably. We're thinking by the end of the year. That's the timing we're expecting, and we have confidence we will receive from both government authorities. Operator?
Speaker #8: No, we feel there's two parts to it. There's about 27 million that we expect from revenue Canada and around 6 million from revenue Quebec.
Speaker #8: We'll expect the Revenue Canada piece to come in the short timeframe, likely within this quarter. The Revenue Quebec piece will take a little bit longer, just because they have to follow up and understand the terms of the settlement, and we're working on that.
Speaker #8: So that'll take a few more months, probably. We're thinking by the end of the year. But that's the timing we're expecting and we have confidence we'll receive from both government authorities.
Speaker #7: Operator?
Speaker #6: Yes, our next question. Oh, one second. There you go.
Operator: Yes. Our next question. One second.
Steven Leonard: Is Brian, Brian?
Operator: There you go.
Speaker #7: Go ahead, Brian.
Steven Leonard: Go ahead, Brian.
Speaker #8: Yes, sorry. I'm not sure I dropped from the call. I apologize for that. I want to turn to Bizetto. Looking at the results, I see there's a constant currency decline.
Speaker 9: Sorry. I am not sure I dropped from my call. I apologize for that. I want to turn to Bozzetto. Looking at the results, I see there is a constant currency decline. Is that due to destocking on textiles because of tariff uncertainty? Now that there is a deal with Bangladesh, have we started to see that normalize?
Speaker #8: Is that due to D stocking on textiles because of tariff uncertainty? And now that there's a deal with Bangladesh, have we now started to see that normalize?
Speaker #5: Yeah, so yeah. So you know, definitely there was uncertainty in Q2 with all the tariff noise. And that was impacting the markets that Bizetto sells into primarily in Bangladesh.
Steven Leonard: Yeah, so, you know, definitely there was uncertainty in Q2 with all the tariff noise. That was impacting the markets that Bozzetto sells into, primarily in Bangladesh. That was reflected in the second quarter in their textile segment. We were early into Q3. July was better than June. As you noted, with things stabilizing, with all those Asian markets being roughly around the same level, I am talking about some of the other markets like Vietnam, Malaysia that produce garments, being around the same level of tariffs, exporting to the U.S. It kind of is a level playing field. Some of that uncertainty is coming away. Bangladesh is also going through a little bit of political instability, which is also having some impact on that market for the Bozzetto business. We are feeling that the second half will start showing better signs.
Speaker #5: And you know, that was reflected in the second quarter in their textile segment. We, you know, were early into Q3, July was better than June.
Speaker #5: And you know, as you noted, with things stabilizing with all those Asian markets being roughly around the same level I'm talking about, you know, some of the other markets like Vietnam, Malaysia, that produce garments being around the same level of tariffs exporting to the US.
Speaker #5: It kind of is, it's a level playing field. So some of that uncertainty is coming away. Bangladesh is also going through a little bit of political instability, which is also having some impact on that market for the Bizetto business.
Speaker #5: But yeah, we're, you know, we're feeling that, you know, second half will start showing better signs. And the other piece that's important in my remarks is in their dispersion segment.
Steven Leonard: The other piece that is important in my remarks is in their dispersion segment. They have made a focus in terms of putting more priority in agrochemical and plasterboard in terms of their business, and it is yielding results both on the top line, but more importantly, and this is what Bozzetto focuses on, is on gross margin. They are yielding much better margins in those two sub-sectors of their dispersion segment.
Speaker #5: So they've, they've made a focus in terms of putting more priority in agrochemical and plasterboard in terms of their business. And it's yielding results both on the top line, but more importantly, and this is what Bizetto focuses on, is on gross margin.
Speaker #5: They're yielding much better margins in those two sub-sectors of their dispersion segment.
Speaker #8: Okay. I wanted to just move on for a second here, and Rhys, congratulations on the progression of your three-step strategy. I wanted to ask you about the process of evaluating the market value of your core holdings, but you addressed that.
Speaker 7: Okay. I want to just move on for a second here. Rhys, congratulations on the progression of your three-step strategy. I wanted to ask you on the process of evaluating the market value of your core holdings, but you addressed that. It sounds like you are potentially a bit more optimistic. Could we potentially see a disposition as a possible 2020, pardon me, a potential 2025 event?
Speaker #8: I'm, it sounds like you're potentially a bit more optimistic. Could we potentially see a disposition as a possible 2020 step, pardon me, a potential 2025 event?
Speaker #8: You know.
Rhys Summerton: We have got a lot of interest in our underlying assets. That is clear. We have engaged with many different players in the time that I have been involved with different options. Some of those options might materialize in the short term. Some of those options, we might take a bit longer. The end result will be a positive one, I believe, for Aimia Inc. shareholders. It will at least be positive in terms of being able to allocate any kind of capital that might come into the group. At times, you go down a road with some partners that turn out to be less reliable than you would have liked. I think it is possible that 2025 does crystallize some value. I would not put a probability on it, but it is definitely a possibility.
Speaker #2: We've got a lot of interest in our underlying assets. You know, that is, that is clear. And you know, we've engaged with many different players in the time that I've been involved.
Speaker #2: With different options, you know, some of those options might materialize in the short term, some of those options we might take a bit longer.
Speaker #2: But the end results will be a positive one, I believe, for Aimia shareholders. It will at least be positive in terms of being able to allocate that, you know, any kind of capital that might come into the group.
Speaker #2: You know, at times you go down a road with some partners that, you know, have kind of turned out to be less reliable than you would have liked.
Speaker #2: But I think, I think it's possible that 2025 does crystallize on value. You know, I wouldn't put a probability on it, but it's definitely a possibility.
Speaker #8: Okay, so if we take that one step forward and you look at the next steps of potentially putting capital into public assets, you've got $23 million of cash on the whole co-balance sheet.
Speaker 7: If we take that one step forward and you look at the next steps of potentially putting capital into public assets, you have $23 million of cash on the holdco balance sheet. You are going to get this tax refund of $33 million. You are going to remain active to some extent in the NCIB. Would you be willing in advance of potential monetization of moving forward with that next step of deploying capital?
Speaker #8: You're going to get this tax refund of $33 million. You're going to remain active to some extent in the NCIB. Would you be willing, in advance of potential monetization, to move forward with that next step of deploying capital?
Speaker #2: Yes, absolutely. Yeah, you know, there are opportunities that are available, and we have different ways of accessing those opportunities. Some of them are with cash; some of them might be other kinds of transactions.
Rhys Summerton: Yes, absolutely. There are opportunities that are available, and we have different ways of accessing those opportunities. Some of them are with cash. Some of them might be other kind of transactions. We will evaluate them. The point for Aimia Inc. shareholders, of which I am the second biggest, is the fact that we will only do deals that are fair and are beneficial on where the relative value will be. In other words, it does not make sense for us to buy things that are fully valued if Aimia Inc. is still undervalued. That is part of the capital allocation decision which I make.
Speaker #2: We will evaluate them but, you know, the point for Aimia shareholders, you know, of which I'm the second biggest, is the fact that we will only do deals that are fair, and are beneficial on where the relative value will be.
Speaker #2: In other words, it doesn't make sense for us to buy things that are fully valued if Aimia is still undervalued. So that's part of the capital allocation decision which I make.
Speaker #8: Thank you very much.
Speaker 7: Thank you very much.
Speaker #2: But you know, the point is we eager to get going.
Rhys Summerton: But the point is we are eager to get going.
Speaker #8: I appreciate that.
Speaker 7: I appreciate that.
Speaker #5: We have a couple of other questions in the queue. We also received a couple of emails. Can you provide some color on the performance of Clear Media?
Steven Leonard: We have a couple of other questions in the queue. We also received a couple of your email. Can you provide some color on the performance of Clear Media?
Speaker #2: I'll hand that over to Steve, and if I have anything to add, I'll come back in.
Rhys Summerton: I'll hand that over to Steve, and if I have anything to add, I'll come back in.
Speaker #5: Yeah, I mean, Clear Media as we've said previously has had some challenges with what's going on in the, you know, it's basically follows the path of what goes on in the consumer spending side of the Chinese market, which has had weakness over the last few years exiting COVID.
Steven Leonard: Yeah, I mean, Clear Media, as we've said previously, has had some challenges with what is going on in the, you know, it basically follows the path of what goes on in the consumer spending side of the Chinese market, which has had weakness over the last few years exiting COVID. We, you know, the management team there has been focusing on optimizing its cost structure and ensuring that it has a, you know, a good foundation on the cost structure. We are starting to see some glimmers of improved results. We do not disclose the results, but we have recently seen some good news come out of Clear Media. You know, we expect as the Chinese consumer comes back and starts spending, more advertising dollars will be put in that market. We expect that business to start providing healthy returns.
Speaker #5: We know the management team there has been focusing on optimizing its cost structure and ensuring that it has a good foundation on the cost structure.
Speaker #5: And we're starting to see some glimmers of improved results. We don't disclose the results, but we have recently seen some good news come out of Clear Media.
Speaker #5: And you know, we expect that as the Chinese consumer comes back and starts spending more advertising dollars, we'll be put in that market, and we expect that business to start providing healthy returns.
Speaker #5: And one more, what's your performance?
Rhys Summerton: One more. What is your proposal? Let me just add to that, Joe, if I can. I think we have also improved our communication and dialogue with Clear Media. I think we will be more influential than perhaps we have been as a passive bystander up to now. We look forward to seeing what value we can help them accrete over time.
Speaker #8: Let me just add to that,
Speaker #2: Joe, if I can. I think we've also improved our communication and dialogue with Clear Media. And I think we'll be more influential than perhaps we have been as a passive bystander up to now.
Speaker #2: So you know, we look forward to seeing what value we can help them accrete over time.
Speaker #5: Which core holding is more exposed to tariffs?
Steven Leonard: Which core holding is more exposed to tariffs?
Speaker #2: I I think both holdings have exposure on the tariff side. But there are swings and roundabouts. For example, if you think about Cortland, it's obviously got the Indian business, but then the value of the US business should actually become more valuable.
Rhys Summerton: I think most holdings have exposure on the tariff side, but there are swings and roundabouts. For example, if you think about Cortland International, it has obviously got the Indian business, but then the value of the U.S. business should actually become more valuable with tariffs. It might not come through in the numbers in the short term, but all things being equal, that will grow in value. I think on Bozzetto, the issue is more just the uncertainty that the tariffs create. I think it is an important point to make sure people understand that in both businesses, you will see swings and roundabouts in the quarters. Over time, these are products that you cannot really do without. So if one quarter is slightly low, you should expect that in the subsequent quarters there is going to be a catch-up because the products are important and needed.
Speaker #2: With tariffs, it might have come through in the numbers in the short term, but all things being equal, that will grow in value. I think on Bizetto, the issue is more just the uncertainty that tariffs create.
Speaker #2: But I think it's an important point to make sure people understand. Is that in both businesses, it's, you know, you'll see swings and roundabouts in the quarters.
Speaker #2: But over time, these are products that you can't really do without. So if one quarter is slightly low, you should expect that in the subsequent quarters there's going to be a catch-up.
Speaker #2: Because the products are important and needed. So I wouldn't read too much into quarterly numbers. I would take a longer-term view and that's why I remarked earlier that if you take the market share numbers, at least the estimates of market share in Cortland and I think the estimates of market share in Bizetto, I think both businesses are actually doing well.
Rhys Summerton: I would not read too much into quarterly numbers. I would take a longer-term view. That is why I remarked earlier that if you take the market share numbers, at least the estimates of market share in Cortland International, and I think the estimates of market share in Bozzetto, I think both businesses are actually doing well. There is potential for catch-up over the remaining part of 2025 and into 2026.
Speaker #2: And there's potential for catch-up over the remaining part of '25 and into '26.
Speaker #5: I would just add that, you know, in both businesses, you know, with Cortland specifically, you know, when you look at India, there's a lot of noise right now.
Steven Leonard: I would just add that, in both businesses, with Cortland International specifically, when you look at India, there is a lot of noise right now, India going into the U.S. But the size of the volume or the size of revenues going from India into the U.S. on Cortland International is less than 10%. It is having an impact, but Cortland International is a global business. It sells in over 70 countries. It is focused on growing not just in the U.S., but in the rest of the world. On the Bozzetto side, we commented about some of the tariff uncertainty. As Rhys Summerton said, we see that more as a temporary item. We also have an advantage with Bozzetto with the Honduras acquisition, which when you look at the tariff rates is on the lower side. That is going to have an advantage.
Speaker #5: India going into the US, but you know, the size of the volume or the size of revenue is going from India into the US on Cortland is less than 10%.
Speaker #5: It is having an impact, but you know, Cortland is a global business. It sells in over 70 countries and you know, it's focused on growing not just in the US, but in the rest of the world.
Speaker #5: And then, on the Bizetto side, we commented about some of the tariff uncertainty, as Rhys said. We see that more as a temporary item.
Speaker #5: And then we also have an advantage with Bizetto with the Honduras acquisition, which, when you look at the tariff rates, is on the lower side.
Speaker #5: So that's going to have an advantage. So you know, some in some places it's having some negative effects on us, but in some, we places we expect to have positive outcomes related to this.
Steven Leonard: In some places, it is having some negative effects on us, but in some places, we expect to have positive outcomes related to this.
Speaker #6: Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of Chris Curry with Goodwood Funds. Please go ahead.
Operator: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Chris Curry with Goodwood Funds. Please go ahead.
Speaker #5: Thank you very much. And yeah, thanks for holding the call and the great disclosure in the presentation. I want to ask about if you agree with what I'm hearing, that US companies are going to get a big boost from the, you know, the big beautiful bill from Tax Cuts, CapEx benefits, you know, let's call those in Q3, Q4, sort of a pumped-up US competitors.
Speaker 10: Thank you very much. Thanks for holding the call and the great disclosure in the presentation. I want to ask if you agree with what I am hearing, that U.S. companies are going to get a big boost from the big, beautiful bill from tax cuts, CapEx benefits. Let's call those in Q3, Q4, sort of the pumped-up U.S. competitors. I was wondering how you assess the landscape, the competitive landscape, vis-à-vis these newly pumped-up U.S. competitors.
Speaker #5: I was wondering how you assess the landscape, the competitive landscape, you know, vis-à-vis these newly pumped-up US competitors.
Speaker #2: I don't think we see a lot of that right now. You know, when I think about competitors, I'm also thinking about the local competitors, local manufacturing competitors.
Rhys Summerton: I do not think we see a lot of that right now. When I think about competitors, I am more thinking about the local competitors, local manufacturing competitors in these businesses. We do not really see much from U.S. competition, maybe a little bit in Cortland International. To go back to the previous question, on the tariff side, what is interesting is that, for example, to produce in India, even with considerable tariffs, it is still more cost-advantageous to produce in India compared to the U.S. So, I am not commenting on what is going on in the U.S., but we just do not see that in our businesses right now.
Speaker #2: In these businesses. You know, we don't really see much from US competition. Maybe a little bit in Cortland. You know, and to go back to the previous question, you know, on the tariff side, what's interesting is that, for example, to, you know, produce in India even with, you know, considerable tariffs, it's still more cost advantageous to produce in India compared to the US.
Speaker #2: So yeah, I'm not commenting on, you know, what's going on in the US, but we just don't see that in our businesses right now.
Speaker #5: Fair enough. Thank you. Just one last quick one. Along the lines same with the, you know, the theory of the pumped-up US companies, are you seeing that reflected in sort of M&A multiples of prospects that you examine?
Speaker 10: Fair enough. Thank you. Just one last quick one. Along the lines, the same with the theory of the pumped-up U.S. companies, are you seeing that reflected in M&A multiples of prospects that you examine?
Speaker #2: Yes, you know, what I noticed about US prospects, and things to maybe allocate capital to, is that the US has forgotten that there's, you know, what Charlie Munger used to say, debt is always 100%.
Rhys Summerton: What I noticed about U.S. prospects and things to maybe allocate capital to is that the U.S. has forgotten what Charlie Munger used to say, debt is always 100%. U.S. companies, particularly on the smaller end, have got considerable debt compared to UK companies, for example. Our strategy will be looking at UK-linked companies because they have much stronger balance sheets. Most of the targets that we have in mind have got net cash on the balance sheet, not net debt. That is going to help us as well. We would rather start off our capital allocation with those kind of companies than U.S. ones because the valuations are not favorable. The balance sheets are weak. I think we can do a lot better than buying companies in the U.S. right now. Hopefully, that changes in the future so that we can start utilizing the tax losses.
Speaker #2: You know, US companies particularly on the smaller end have got considerable debt compared to UK companies, for example. So you know, our strategy will be, you know, looking at UK-linked companies.
Speaker #2: Because they've got, you know, much stronger balance sheets. Most of the targets that we have in mind have got net cash on the balance sheet, not net debt.
Speaker #2: That's going to help us as well. We would rather, you know, start off our capital allocation with those kinds of companies than U.S. ones because, you know, the valuations aren't favorable.
Speaker #2: The balance sheets are weak. And it's, you know, I think we can do a lot better than buying companies in the US right now.
Speaker #2: Hopefully that changes in the future, so that we can start utilizing the tax losses and I look forward to that time.
Rhys Summerton: I look forward to that time.
Speaker #6: Thank you. And your next question comes from the line of contractor Kogel with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Operator: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Conrad Sharkougal with Goodwin Sachs. Please go ahead.
Speaker #2: I I hope you can hear me. Thank you very much for congratulations for the progress, especially the three-pronged strategy. And then I recognize that the needle movers are Bizetto and Cortland International, but my question goes to the holding segment.
Rhys Summerton: I hope you can hear me. Thank you very much. Congratulations for the progress, especially the three-prong strategy. I recognize that the needle movers are Bozzetto and Cortland International, but my question goes to the holding segment. I have a couple of questions here. The first is the $1.6 million termination expense. Is that done or are we going to see it come through in the second half of the year as well? That is the first question. The second question is just on the holding segment and Goodwill. How much of Goodwill is related to the holding segment? Just so that as and when there are disposals, are we going to see a change in Goodwill? Thank you. I will give thanks to Steven Leonard to answer those questions.
Speaker #2: A couple of questions here. The first is the 1.6 million dollar termination expense. Is that done or are we going to see it come through in a second half of the year as well?
Speaker #2: That's the first question. The second question is just on the holding segment and then Goodwill. How much of Goodwill is related to the holding segment?
Speaker #2: Just so that as and when they are disposals, are we going to see a change in Goodwill? Thank you.
Speaker #8: Yeah, I'll get.
Speaker #2: Thanks. That's Steve to answer those questions.
Speaker #5: Yeah, so on the second one, there's no Goodwill at the holding segment. The Goodwill that's on our balance sheets attributable to both of the Bizetto and Cortland businesses.
Steven Leonard: On the second one, there is no goodwill at the holding segment. The goodwill that is on our balance sheet is attributable to both of the Bozzetto and Cortland businesses. When we sell, if we sell one of those businesses, the goodwill would follow with the disposition of one of those businesses. On the holdco costs, for the quarter, we ended up somewhere around $2 million. There was a small, on what we call a normalized basis, there was around $100K related to some work that we did on the tax settlement. On a run-rate basis, and that is why we have updated the guidance, if you take the next two quarters and where we are at for June 30th, I think we were at four and a half. If you take two over the next two quarters, that would be another four.
Speaker #5: You know, when we sell, if we sell one of those businesses, the Goodwill would follow with the disposition of one of those businesses. On the whole co-costs, I think, you know, for the quarter we ended up somewhere around 2 million.
Speaker #5: There was a small on what we call normalized basis. There was around 100K related to some work that we did on the tax settlement.
Speaker #5: So, you know, on a run rate basis, and that's why we've updated the guidance, if you take the next two quarters and where we're at, for June 30th, I think we're re at four and a half and then you take two over the next two quarters, that would be another four.
Speaker #5: It would give us eight and a half. We're being a little bit conservative. You know, we think we'll land somewhere between that number and the nine.
Steven Leonard: It would give us eight and a half. We are being a little bit conservative. We think we will land somewhere between that number and the nine. You never know. Sometimes things will come up upon us. As you have seen and what we said in our prepared remarks, we have taken some action on reducing our professional fees, reducing our other costs, like we said, rent, and there are other places we have taken action. Those things will no longer be reoccurring in the forward periods.
Speaker #5: You know, you never know, sometimes things will come up upon us, but as you've seen and what we said in our prepared remarks, we've taken some action on reducing our professional fees, reducing our other costs, like we said, rent and there's some other places we've taken action and those things will no longer be reoccurring in the forward periods.
Speaker #2: Okay. Thank you very much. I wish you well. You have something to add, Rhys?
Rhys Summerton: Okay. Thank you very much. I wish you well. You have something to add, Rhys? I think I will just reiterate that although holdco costs will be here, in terms of the guidance for 2025, we still believe that we will get below 1.5% in future, below 1.5% in future. So there is still more room, more work to be done there. Perfect. Thank you very much. I wish you well second half of the year.
Speaker #8: Yeah, I think I'll just reiterate
Speaker #2: that although the whole co-costs will be here, you know, in terms of the guidance for '25, we still believe that we will get below one and a half percent in future.
Speaker #2: Below one and a half percent in future. So there's still more room, more work to be done there. Perfect. Thank you very much. I wish you well second half of the year.
Speaker #6: All right, thank you. And we have no further questions at this time. I would like to turn it back to Joe Racanelli for closing remarks.
Operator: All right, thank you. We have no further questions at this time. I would like to turn it back to Joe Racanelli for closing remarks.
Speaker #5: Thank you for joining us. Rhys, do you have any closing remarks?
Steven Leonard: Thank you for joining us. Rhys, do you have any closing remarks?
Speaker #2: Well, thank you. Yeah, from my side as well, for joining us for this call. As I said, I appreciate that, you know, quarterly results are not always newsworthy events.
Rhys Summerton: Well, thank you. From my side as well for joining us for this call. As I said, I appreciate that quarterly results are not always newsworthy events. In our case, we haven't been able to elaborate on a lot of the work that we've done behind the scenes. As soon as we have something to report to our shareholders, we will be in touch. We look forward to that.
Speaker #2: And in our case, we haven't been able to elaborate on a lot of the work that we've done behind the scenes, but as soon as we have something to report to our shareholders, we will be in touch.
Speaker #2: So we look forward to that.
Operator: Thank you, presenters. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.