Q3 2025 Sequans Communications SA Earnings Call
Welcome to the third quarter, 2025 sequence, earnings conference call. My name is Jonathan and I will be your operator for today's call at this time. All participants are in listen-only mode. After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question and answer session to ask a question during this session. You will need to press star 1 1 on your telephone. If your question has been answered and you'd like to remove yourself from the queue simply press star 1 1 again, as a reminder, today's program is being recorded. I would now like to turn the program over to David Hanover investor relations David. You may begin.
Thank you, Jonathan.
And thank you for everyone participating in today's call.
Joining me on the call from Sequans Communications are Georges Karam, CEO and Chairman, and Deborah Choate, CFO.
Before turning the call over to George, I would like to provide our participants of the following appointment information on behalf of sequence.
First sequence issued, an earnings press release this morning and you'll find a copy of the release on the company's website, at www.sequence.com Under The Newsroom section.
Second this conference call contains projections and other forward-looking statements regarding future events or our future financial performance and potential Financial financing sources.
Having our business strategy cost optimization strategic plans, the ability to enter into new strategic agreements. Expectations, for sales, our ability to convert our pipeline to revenue and our objectives for future operations.
Are forward-looking statements within the meaning of the private Securities. Litigation Reform Act of 1999 section 27A and the security fact of 1933 as amended and section.
21e of the Securities, Exchange Act of 1934 as amended.
These statements are only predictions and reflects our current beliefs, and expectations with respect to future events and are based on assumptions and subject to risk and uncertainties and subject to change at any time.
We operate in a very competitive and rapidly changing environment. New risks emerge from time to time given these risks and uncertainties, you should not rely on or place undue Reliance on these forward-looking statements.
Actual advancement results, May differ materially from those contained in the projections of forward-looking statements, for more information on factors that could affect our business and financial results are included in our public filings made with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
And now I'd like to hand the call over to George Corrin. Please go ahead George.
Thank you David. Uh good morning to everyone. We are announced this morning. That sequence has taken a proactive approach to reduce its debt by 50% through a strategic asset reallocation of its Bitcoin Treasury
We remain fully committed to our Bitcoin treasury strategy, which we continue to believe will deliver meaningful long-term value for our shareholders.
This is why we executed our major financing deal in July as the starting Foundation of our Bitcoin strategy.
As you know, the financing deal included, both equity and convertible debt, components that introduced approximately 50% leverage into our treasury structure.
Initially, we thought the shares would appreciate following the deal announcement, and the debt would convert due to share price appreciation.
While there is no urgency for us.
as we are not paying interest on the debt for the first 12 months,
we have chosen to act proactively.
Given current digital asset treasury market conditions.
With many of our peers currently trading significantly below and mab of 1, we find ourselves constrained by the lack of available options to meaningfully advance, our treasury strategy at this time.
We have an update to move forward and negotiate with our debt holder to reduce our debt exposure and provide us with greater flexibility moving forward.
As a result, we are now today that we are reducing by half our convertible debt. Zi tactical sale of a portion of our Bitcoin Holdings.
We undertook this action for the following reasons.
First, it has lowered our debt to nav ratio closer to the 35% range.
A more appropriate level, while still maintaining decent leverage on the remaining portion of the convertible debt.
This put us in a better position for issuing preferred. Shares in the future.
Second, we have reduced some of the debt Covenant constraints.
Increasing our ability to use all of the treasury tools at our disposal.
Including buying back ads and executing on the ATM, based on market conditions.
With respect to our ads, buy back program.
Factoring in the factoring in the current valuation.
Selling Bitcoin on a tactical basis, makes sense, in this environment to fund the repurchase of our ads.
Which are trading at a significant discount to to our Bitcoin net value, plus our net cash.
Note that our current valuation does not reflect the value creating opportunities, We Believe are available to us through our iot business, which I will discuss shortly.
And lastly, we have freed up some of the Bitcoin we hold, enabling us to generate some yield with minimum risk. Such a shield can be deployed to buy Bitcoin.
We intend to continue to follow a disciplined and opportunistic approach to bitcoin accumulation.
We'll be patient with Market condition.
But we remain proactive.
Ongoing Bitcoin purchases could be funded by Insurance of debt Equity or preferred as well as iot business, monetization, and operating cash flow.
We have the tools or options in place to execute the strategy.
An ATM, which provides us with the option that when our share price is much higher than where it is today, we'll be able to execute opportunistically on our Bitcoin accumulation strategy in an executive manner.
We also have an ads buyback program in place, which has been approved by the board. Given the current share price, we will execute on this as soon as we are able to.
We have reduced our debt exposure, which offers us the option to consider other new instruments, like, preferred shares, and the future.
Returning to my earlier point about the large valuation discrepancy in our shares. I wanted to stress that our current net equivalent cash position.
That includes.
Equivalent cash of Bitcoin. Net asset value.
Minus debt.
Is above 170 million.
This is approximately 12 per outstanding ads.
You can see the deep discount; our shares are trading.
At on this basis alone, this ignores any iot business value we are creating an expect to create in the future.
It also, ignores The Leverage, we can create with our Bitcoin treasury strategy.
While Bitcoin treasury companies as a whole may be in a transition phase.
That has affected current Equity valuations. We continue to be fully committed to the Bitcoin. Treasure strategy. We have initiated
and are exploring all opportunities to unlock shareholder value through our Bitcoin treasury, alongside our iot operations,
Our goal remains to create long-term value to our shareholders.
As for our iot business itself.
It's moving in the right direction.
Our pipeline remains healthy, representing about $550 million in potential three-year product revenue across our 4G and RF product lines.
in Q3 we won 6 new projects and I'm pleased to announce
That amounts to around a million dollars of this pipeline from our design win projects.
A 20% increase versus our last reported figure.
Some of the design win projects are in the mass production phase, currently generating revenue, while others are under development by our customers with revenue potential in 2026 and beyond.
Our execution remains focused on increasing the design wind pipeline.
But more importantly, we are focused on helping our customers with projects not yet in production, finishing the development and certification of their products, and turning them into revenue-generating design wins.
In Q3.
3 design win projects transitioned to production.
In Q4, we expect to add 5, more positioning us to enter 2026 with over 45% of our design, win projects in production and generating Revenue.
This aligns with the target we set at the beginning of 2025.
A represents a more than 2x Improvement of the of this key business metric.
We anticipate this positive trend to continue into the first half of 2026, supporting our Revenue growth in the second half of 2026.
Our design win projects, span multiple verticals.
Tracking Fleet Management.
And a smart metering Remain. The strongest verticals for us.
with good presence and security, and he has a medical
Looking at smart metering. We are now shipping product.
For 3 projects of hanwell.
And 2 of itron and should have 2 new metering, customers ramping, early 2026.
In Fleet Management geotab is ramping and we will have another customer ramping in early 2026.
With AEL a channel partner addressing auto-tracking and other vertical applications.
Now, I will briefly review the third quarter business and discuss our fourth quarter Outlook.
Let me start by highlighting highlighting that Q3 was the first quarter without any remaining revenue. Revenue recognition Tailwind from the Qualcomm deal closed last year.
While this has an optical impact on the licensing and services Revenue component, it does not affect cash flow.
Q3 product Revenue was impacted by minor delays, as some customer project shifted the ramp up scheduled to Q4.
While this has postponed, our expected, Q3 Revenue growth, we remain confident that the ramp will materialize in Q4 as planned.
In addition.
We Face some late production challenges with our osat partner and revenue. Fell short of our Target due to substrate, availability issue.
The impact was around 1 million dollars. Thank you 3, sub Straight Lead times became extended last quarter, due to Industry demand from AI leaders,
We mitigated this by working with suppliers and anticipating orders. However, our execution timing was right on the edge of the quarter end.
This ended up delaying some of our shipments by a couple of weeks.
Given our Q4 visibility.
our current Q4 view is that product Revenue will exceed 6 million
With.
Around 1 million incremental Services incremental, revenue of services and IP licensing.
We aim to finish the Q4 with Revenue above 7 million by adding the 2, the 2 component.
On the product development front.
We launched our 4G Kwan best worldwide Q module.
And have made very good progress on our 5G. Iut, in this regard, I'm pleased to announce that we have just taped out our 5G, redcap test chip as planned.
This is a major milestone in our 5G iut project.
This program will enable us to sample. Our third generation of iot chips, supporting 5G, redcap late, 2026,
This is an extremely advanced technology that we believe has significant value.
In summary.
Our 4gi, UT business will grow and generate positive cash flow in 2026 becoming a profitable business line for us with the potential to grow farther.
In 2027 by around 50% year year over year.
This business is helping to fund our ongoing investment in 5G R&D, which can start generating product Revenue in 2027 and Licensing Revenue in 2026.
We expect the IP created with this 5G investment.
Could result in a strategic deals with significant near-term value creation. As we have successfully demonstrated in the past with 4G.
More generally, we have launched a new IP initiatives and announced a portfolio of Ip that we are willing to license.
We have done a few licensing deals in the past.
But here we are shifting from an opportunistic approach to a proactive, go to market strategy maximizing, our customer, reach, and accelerating, the monetization of our IP portfolio, all without additional investment.
Currently we have several opportunities under discussion.
And we hope to conclude a few of them in the coming quarters.
We further expect longer-term product revenues strength based on current design wins and order backlog of 4G chips, modules, and radio transceivers.
Considering the 300 million dollar product design when pipeline.
We currently have in hand.
And factoring that we will enter 2026 with 45% of the design win projects generating revenue.
This could generate 45 million average annual product Revenue over the coming 3 years.
Production in 2026.
The new projects we are working on to win or IP licensing and services contribution.
On the operating expense front.
Our goal is to limit cash burn in 2026, in order to reach break, even in Q4.
To support this. We are implementing a 20% cost Reduction Program across functions.
while safeguarding core in which,
This approach provides.
Downside protection and preserves flexibility to scale up. If upside Revenue opportunities materialize,
I will now take a moment to discuss some of the iut related strategic Alternatives. We are currently evaluating
Since launching our Bitcoin treasury, we have been actively reassessing how best to position our iot business to ensure shareholders benefit from its full value potential.
Our board is currently evaluating a range of strategic Alternatives. We have
while several options being explored.
I can share that we are in serious discussions. Regarding a few strategic partnership opportunities for our iot business.
The objective is to accelerate the path to break, even enhance the business, overall value and strengthen its cash flow generating capability.
I will now turn the call over to Deborah to review the third quarter 2025 preliminary Financial results in Greater detail. Thank you, George and good morning everyone.
I'll cover our third quarter Financial.
More of that: our Bitcoin holdings.
Total revenue is in Q3 2025, we're 4.3 million, a decrease of 47.3% compared to the second quarter of 2025 as the life lessons as the last license revenues from Qualcomm finished in Q2 2025.
West margin was 40.9% compared to 64.4% in Q2, again reflecting much lower high-margin license revenue in the mix in Q3.
operating expenses in Q3 2025 excluding the unrealized loss on the mark-to-market of the Bitcoin, treasury asset or 14 million dollars stable compared with Q2 2025
Both quarters included a number of non-recurring expenses related to various legal and advisory fees related to our strategic transactions.
Operating expenses in Q3 included nearly $800,000 in non-cash stock compensation expense.
And $1.6 million in amortization and depreciation expense.
As George mentioned, we are putting in place cost reduction measures to reduce cash operating expenses, meaning, excluding stocks and appreciation expense to be below 10 million per quarter in 2026
Operating loss was 20.4 million in Q3 compared to an operating loss of 8.7 million in the second quarter of 2025.
the operating loss in the third quarter of 2025 included, an 8.2 million unrealized loss on impairment of the value of our Bitcoin asset,
Uh, which was marked to Market.
For the third quarter of 2025 our, net loss was 6.7 million or 48 cents per diluted ads.
Compared to a net loss of 9.1 million.
For a loss of 3. $359 per diluted ads in Q2 2025.
Net loss in the third quarter of 2025 included a non-cash.
20 million point6 gain on the change, in value of the embedded, derivative related to the convertible debt issued in July and included. Net interest expense of 6.9 million, that was also primarily non-cash and related to the IFRS accounting for the convertible. Debt issued in July.
Our non-ifrs loss in Q3 2025 was 11 million compared to a non-ifrs. Net loss of 8.1 million in Q2 2025
Cash and cash equivalents at September 30, 2025, total $13.4 million compared to $41.6 million at June 30, 2025.
The September 30th balance does not include the 10 million final payment. From the 2024 Qualcomm transactions that was released from Escrow in October 2025 giving us a proforma ending cash of 23.4 million.
Which was pledged as security for the 189 million of convertible. Debt issued in July,
Following the recently announced Amendment of the debt agreement 1,617. Bitcoin are being released from the pledge and the company has sold 970 Bitcoin in order to reimburse half of the debt.
The remaining 647 unpledged, Bitcoin remain in our treasury, but are able to uh, that are available for the previously announced ads. Repurchase program is needed.
I'd also like to refer you to our Bitcoin dashboard on our website at sequins.com Bitcoin treasury where investors can find our Bitcoin related statistics in 1 location.
We now have many Tools in place to pursue our Bitcoin, treasury strategy and strategic options for our iot business. We will use these to maximize shareholder value based on our own specific circumstances.
And now I'll turn the call back to Georges before we begin Q&A.
Thank you, Deborah. Uh, so to conclude this call, before the Q&A, I would like to stress, like the 2 points on the Bitcoin. We continue to be committed to the Bitcoin treasure strategy. We've launched given the current digital asset treasury market condition. We decided to adjust our treasury structure and redeem half of the debt in order to be in a better shape to execute on our Bitcoin.
With this move, we have now a more appropriate debt to nav ratio while still maintaining decent Leverage.
Also we put ourselves in a stronger position to execute on the ads buyback program as well as other financial instruments.
On the iot business. Our design, when pipeline is growing well and we remain on track to have by end of this year, more than 45% of the projects of the customer projects, moving to mass production and generating Revenue.
In parallel, we are taking all action needed to control our Opex and limit cash burn with the target to reach break. Even in Q4 2026.
And finally, we are seriously considering a few strategic alternatives to ensure shareholders benefit from the full value potential of our IoT business.
With that.
Let's now begin the Q&A session. Operator, certainly. And as a reminder, if you do have a question at this time, please press star 1, 1 1 on your telephone. Our next question comes from our first question comes from the line of Scott thorough from broth your question, please.
Hey, good morning, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. Hey, um, Deborah, maybe just to dive in quickly. Um, in in the third quarter, were there any licensing or service revenues a part of the um the the 4.3 million trying to understand if, if there's a sequential uptick um, in the product revenues. Um, also I just want to clarify the timing on the Opex, going below, 10 million and, and George from a high level, you know, kind of looking at where
Um the net asset value of the of the company is relative to the current stock price. How aggressive will you be on the buyback? If you got another 600 um Bitcoin available to pursue that strategy you know give them the stock is trading at 7 Bucks versus the Net asset value around 12 would seem like it's a pretty good arbitration uh move to do that. So how how quickly and how aggressively do you plan to to uh to tackle that
Yeah, I mean it's got the uh, hi first of all and and and you know, just to take your last Point as aggressive as needed. And as as the rational makes sense, right? I mean our Bitcoin value, uh, the, the Bitcoin get acquired was a share at 14 dollars.
So uh, technically if the share is at 7, you will be making 50% gain by selling a Bitcoin that you purchased at 14 and and you recover the price, you paid for it at 7, right? I mean which is your share. So we have all in place uh board resolution is there. Uh, we were not able to execute on it, uh, uh, in this period because as you know, we were on the um,
On the, in the, the window. I mean, we, we were restricted and we could not act on this, but then I don't know the any 1 or 2 days will be will be free and will be moving on this. Uh, and, uh, obviously, you know, because depending where, uh, where the stock is, but it makes full sense for shareholder today to buy back, uh, the shares of the company if it's trading low and for the people staying with the company will get the value of the nav, which we have there. So, we are completely committed to be aggressive on this if needed.
You know, services.
MP3. And in terms of the Opex reduction of the the this is putting being put in place now, uh, we expect it will be, uh, mostly realized in q1 and um,
We're looking at and, you know, fully in place by by Q2, but with an overall, for the year, uh, being below, uh, 10 million a quarter, and that includes the yeah. And that includes the, uh, the, you know, new costs of, uh, managing the Bitcoin Treasury.
Okay, very very helpful and then George maybe to follow up in terms of the pipeline building for the iot business. It's a lot of momentum in 1 quarter where you're going about 20% in terms of your design wins. Um I guess you'll you'll kind of enter 2026 um at at almost double digit. Um uh revenues right somewhere in that 10 to 11 million. I guess is the Run rate off of that. 45% that go into production. I think, in the past, you talked about, what, you might be exiting 2026, um, is there a figure that you're thinking about right now? Because it sounds like that gets you to break even particularly given the the Opex, reductions that you have ongoing. So we should see that by the fourth quarter of 26. I mean, Scott and and, you know, the business value business as you know, is many, many projects and each project is is, is not huge. So, that makes, if you want, like at the beginning when you're ramping, it's a little bit slow and, uh, and, and frustrating to some extent. But once the, the product are
Shipment our customer is shipping, it's there for 7 years, you know, an average, like, if you take me sometimes even more than this. So, uh, and give us very good visibility for the future. We are, I'm very happy as as we are exiting this year close to our range of 50%. And but this will continue because as, you know, this, this the design win project, I don't qualify them like 100% secured, but uh, uh, we could have, uh,
Uh you know the risk on what we have a win in hand. Is very, very minimum, you know, more than 90% based on the history of the project continued. I mean except really some small projects or small companies. You know that that you could have over the execution of projects, some surprises. But we are dealing with Tier 1 players that are there when you decide to launch a project, they are in. It may take them longer than what we thought to be ready for production, but they get it there. So we I believe 2026 will continue, uh, ramping. And we should be because the pipeline will continue. I could not say what we have in hand today. Maybe close to 90% plus will be in a production, but obviously, in the meantime, we'll be adding a new project. So when we exit the pipeline, should be more than 300 exit 26, and obviously the percentage will be less than 90. But, uh, this is what will be funding. The growth will will have in 2027, which I predict to be at minimum, 40 to 50%
Here over here. Thanks to this. Gotcha and Scott. Okay. And
This 1 point on on q1, we do tend to have a little bit of seasonality in the, in the, I mean, in any cases the average your number you write. I mean, just to talk about the digital. I'm giving you the first 5 million dollars 3 years average, right? I mean all this is something, um, you know, you you imagine the shape because a new project starting today is not going to yield that full uh,
full Revenue in the first quarter, it takes like 2 quarters of 3 quarters to go to the full Revenue so there is a ramp up phase obviously with every project heading up
And, and a couple of follow-ups, if I could then, um, congrats on on, getting the tape out on the, uh, the Red Cap front. I know that's a big milestone for the company. Um, I think you've talked about licensing opportunities, um, for redcap, I'm wondering if you could elaborate on that, in terms of what might be in the pipeline, kind of frame it in terms of size and opportunities, and Iris has been ramping up as well. I think, in terms of the potential opportunities, I'm wondering where that fits into the overall design when pipeline that you've talked about the magnitude of those opportunities. Um, particularly ramping into 2026,
Solution from us. As you know, we have a very advanced radius on Silver technology. We have a Layer 2, Layer 3 protocol that no one has, and obviously, we have a lot of IP in the modem as well. We have the full solution. So you could have customers who are looking for a full solution of modem, mainly to adapt to move from cellular to something else, if you want, like to satellite or defense applications in other radio environments. And some others, they won't just only want a piece of the technology that we have.
So we're talking about licensing deal. That could be, you know,
I would say 3 to 5 million.
License. I'm not talking about royalty like up front up to these. They could be equal to 15, 20 million and all those under discussion and and and and we have really nice number in discussion. Uh,
And for sure next year, we'll have something converging and and helping to feed our uh IP licensing Revenue. Next year.
Got you and and lastly if I could George just to to follow up on the the Strategic comments, could could you frame that a little bit more? Are you talking about more Partnerships or are you talking about potential outright sale of of the iot business with the current time? Thanks.
Yeah, I mean, it's got I, I don't want to commend much on this, you know, obviously, the, the question, take the problem like this. Like, okay, the the company has a serious iot business, which is extremely valuable, in my opinion, it has as well, a, you know, a nice Bitcoin holding, which is extremely valuable as well. Uh, and from there we are. We're moving as a company to hopefully succeed on bus, uh, front building more Bitcoin, uh, and building the treasury and buying more accumulating, more Bitcoin. And on the other side scale, the revenue and the IP potential of the iot for the time being, they are not conflicting to each other, they are manageable. Uh, but if you project down the road, you could say, maybe for shareholder, you can give more value by, uh, separating the tool by by doing something different. I will say that, and obviously, uh, this take the factor as well discussing with other partners on the business front to, to do, you know, some strategic
Partnership and maybe more uh, together, uh, I cannot say more Scott. I mean, allow me, but, but we have serious discussion there. And hopefully, when when things will be, um, you know, close to sine or sine will be able to, to announce it to work.
Thanks so much.
Thank you and our next question comes from the line of Mike. Randall from Northland your question, please.
Hey thank you George and it's Deborah um George talk, a little bit about your confidence in 7 million of Revenue in 4 q and and this 45 million kind of annual run rate. You're striving to
Yeah. Uh, hi Max. Obviously, for for, uh, for Q4, you know, I mean, you never say I'm 100% sure, right. I mean, we are, we are, we're giving we're giving a number that we, we believe, uh, uh, it's in the backlog if you want. And, and, and secure out of, I would say extraordinary accident. We are very confident about it. If we talk about the annual revenue, I want just again to stress the math I did is I took 45% of the 300 million which will be in a production divided by 3 give you 45 over 3 years. So this is the average. Obviously, this doesn't mean necessarily that it's flat for sphere flat second year, flat second, third year, it's the reverse. It will start lower and it will go up over 3 years because you have the ramp of those products. And obviously, it's, it's quite, I'm quite comfortable with the number. Even if the projection here, you're talking about, you know, uh, longer program. You, you need to know that in our design when
And then we'll ramp up to 500. There is still some risk, not factored in which is related to the fact. If this customer, we have, if you want experience about uh, his previous shipment, previous forecasts, and so on. So, in other words, in this number already more than half of those, 45% are already in production, I am extremely confident about them. The other half are ramping now like Q3 and Q4 they will be a little bit of risk but you know uh measurable risk. That's why we are representing this month.
Got it. Um,
just reduction efforts.
Have you?
Started those?
Or do those start later this year?
We we started benefiting and, and again, you know, customer reduction, we have a lot of stuff we have. Uh, even I can tell you, for example, our offices, we we shave like, uh, uh, we we had the chance to renegotiate, the pieces of the Opex third party, and so on, and obviously some reduction here and there when it's needed, we started a little bit, you know, and some of it, not everything is implemented, but some is defined as I'm speaking. I know what, uh, what we are going to do if you want in Q4 and q1, uh, and and all this is set without impacting. If you want our, our Innovation and investment into the 5G R&D, uh, a lot of this as well, like our 4G, if you want product line is becoming, uh, fully, uh, I'll say mature because we, we were still working on some development, during the year, we finish it. So I have even some reduction of effort there.
And more General, I would say on the GNA. And so on, controlling this pandemic,
You sold, we didn't it will be on our, uh, it it will be showing up on our website that I can give it to you. Uh it will be uh, 1 0 8. 6 8.
Unfortunately we didn't have the best period to to to sell started selling at 115 and ended by selling at 106.
Got it, okay. Hey, thank you and good luck.
Thank you, Mike.
You. And as a reminder, ladies and gentlemen, if you do have a question at this time, please press star 1, 1 on your next, on your telephone, our next question comes from the line of Fedor shabalin from B Riley. Securities your question, please.
Thank you very much. Operator, and good morning. Good afternoon. Everyone. Um George and Deborah. I completely understand the rationale behind the Bitcoin sale. You mentioned that this transaction enables uh company to pursue a wider set of strategic initiatives um to develop and grow the treasury. So could you provide more details on what additional initiatives? You you you considering beyond the ATM program and share BuyBacks. And
And any color on your strategic priorities? Here would be helpful. Thank you.
Thank you. Hi feder. Thanks. Thanks for the question. I mean, essentially, and again, I want to stress 1 Point the company.
You know, when when 1 of the issues, if you want our, the structure of the debt there is, it was not the risk. Even some people, I don't know, people were because the collateral was fixed. We didn't have to readjust the price of the Bitcoin. It was just on the collateral, is all the Bitcoin that we have, and they are sitting there, we cannot do anything with that. You cannot do anything with your Bitcoin, you know, obviously you you you that the original plan was like the conversion. The debt will convert at least over the first 6 months, you know, and so, and then bye, bye, bye bye. Bye by definition, some of those Bitcoin will be free and and from there we can, we can use them. So we took this initiative, really not under the pressure because we have interest rate to pay or because we are afraid about having the Bitcoin at $100 and and have to face any issue. The company will not face any issue, even if we stay on this Bitcoin longer. However, the company was stuck. In other words, I could not do anything. I cannot buy Bitcoin, I cannot generate yield on the Bitcoin, I cannot be aggressive on buyback because you can do a buyback.
That is around 30%, it's easy to have 10% preferred next to it and and if you reduce the debt further, you can do more. So this is 1 option. If we have free Bitcoin, those can be generating yield depending on the risk. You want to take their but if you want to take very low risk, you can generate like 4% yield and this will be nice cash that you can use to buy Bitcoin or to fund the GNA of serving the treasury. And obviously, the the buyback that gives us that boost the program because we don't need to sacrifice anything on the operation. If really, the share stays low, the rational means, sell Bitcoin and buy shares, uh, and, and support the shareholders thing with us. So, that's, that's the whole logic around it. This is really all the topic that we have. Now, I know that there are other topic if maybe you're raising for this, uh, which is, uh, uh, you know, like,
Uh, consolidating and something with other treasury. Uh, I know that 1 1 happened in the market today and and everybody uh, you know, saw this, I don't believe there is urgency on this for me. Honestly, there is uh, not a clear idea currently uh what's the issue of uh uh, you know, the treasury strategy in general? Why? Why all this is trading Below on nav, which is not logical at the level where it is, and this is not for us for all our peers, so we're trying to unlock it.
From where we are by taking put, ourself in a position where we are much stronger. And from there, we will see how things will develop in the coming, uh, 6 months or so.
Thank you. This is helpful and you, you already partially answered my follow-up. Question on depth to NIV ratio. Um, but
I just want to understand, uh, what will be different in the treasury approach going forward. Um, I I heard you, you, you plan to issue preferred, but if you can just throw some timeline on, these would be helpful. Thank you.
Yeah. I mean, uh,
Obviously, I mean, the first the first priority Now is really, uh, the buyback program. This is what I have on my table if you want to execute on this and, uh, see how things will develop there. And obviously, the second 1 will be the preferred and the yield on the Bitcoin. These are the 3 options. Uh, no no timeline. Honestly, the option is there. Uh, but I don't want to give more timeline when we will do something like this because, you know, depends on negotiation and so on.
Thank you very much. This is helpful um charges in the team continued on best of luck.
Thank you, thank you. Thank you. This does conclude the question and answer session of today's program. I'd like to hand the program back to George Karan for any further, remarks.
Thank you, Jonathan, for helping us with this. Thank you, everybody, uh, staying on the call and for all your questions and looking forward to see you.
Uh, in the next opportunity. Thank you very much.
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen for your participation. In today's conference, this does conclude the program. You may now disconnect good day.