Charter Communications Q4 2025 Charter Communications Inc Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q4 2025 Charter Communications Inc Earnings Call
Speaker #1: We ask that you please hold all questions until the completion of the formal remarks, at which time you will be given instructions for the question-and-answer session.
Operator: We ask that you please hold all questions until the completion of the formal remarks, at which time you will be given instructions for the question and answer session. Also, as a reminder, this conference is being recorded today. If you have any objections, please disconnect at this time. I will now turn the call over to Stefan Anninger.
Operator: We ask that you please hold all questions until the completion of the formal remarks, at which time you will be given instructions for the question and answer session. Also, as a reminder, this conference is being recorded today. If you have any objections, please disconnect at this time. I will now turn the call over to Stefan Anninger.
Speaker #1: Also, as a reminder, this conference is being recorded today. If you have any objections, please disconnect at this time. I will now turn the call over to Stefan Anninger.
Speaker #2: Thanks, Operator, and welcome, everyone. The presentation that accompanies this call can be found on our website, ir.charter.com. I would like to remind you that there are a number of risk factors and other cautionary statements contained in our SEC filings, and we encourage you to read them carefully.
Stefan Anninger: Thanks, operator, and welcome everyone. The presentation that accompanies this call can be found on our website, ir.charter.com. I would like to remind you that there are a number of risk factors and other cautionary statements contained in our SEC filings, and we encourage you to read them carefully. Various remarks that we make on this call concerning expectations, predictions, plans, and prospects constitute forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ from historical or anticipated results. Any forward-looking statements reflect management's current view only, and Charter undertakes no obligation to revise or update such statements. As a reminder, all growth rates noted on this call and in the presentation are calculated on a year-over-year basis, unless otherwise specified. On today's call, we have Chris Winfrey, our President and CEO, and Jessica Fischer, our CFO.
Stefan Anninger: Thanks, operator, and welcome everyone. The presentation that accompanies this call can be found on our website, ir.charter.com. I would like to remind you that there are a number of risk factors and other cautionary statements contained in our SEC filings, and we encourage you to read them carefully. Various remarks that we make on this call concerning expectations, predictions, plans, and prospects constitute forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ from historical or anticipated results.
Speaker #2: Various remarks that we make on this call concerning expectations, predictions, plans, and prospects constitute forward-looking statements, which are subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual results to differ from historical or anticipated results.
Speaker #2: Any forward-looking statements reflect management's current view only, and CHARTER undertakes no obligation to revise or update such statements. As a reminder, all growth rates noted on this call and in the presentation are calculated on a year-over-year basis unless otherwise specified.
Any forward-looking statements reflect management's current view only, and Charter undertakes no obligation to revise or update such statements. As a reminder, all growth rates noted on this call and in the presentation are calculated on a year-over-year basis, unless otherwise specified. On today's call, we have Chris Winfrey, our President and CEO, and Jessica Fischer, our CFO. With that, let's turn the call over to Chris.
Speaker #2: On today's call, we have Chris Winfrey, our President and CEO, and Jessica Fischer, our CFO. With that, let's turn the call over to
Speaker #2: On today's call, we have Chris Winfrey, our President and CEO, and Jessica Fischer, our CFO. With that, let's turn the call over to Chris.
Stefan Anninger: With that, let's turn the call over to Chris.
Speaker #3: Thanks, Stefan, and 2025, we continue to compete for customers by delivering great products at great prices with continuously improving service. We added nearly 2 million mobile lines for growth of 19%, and we remained the fastest growing mobile provider in the United States.
Chris Winfrey: Thanks, Stefan. In 2025, we continued to compete for customers by delivering great products at great prices with continuously improving service. We added nearly 2 million mobile lines for growth of 19%, and we remained the fastest growing mobile provider in the United States. In video, we dramatically reduced our video losses, and in Q4, we grew our video customers, despite well-known headwinds. The video product improvements we've made over the past 2 years, which improved connectivity relationships, are having an impact. In internet, competition for new customers remains high, but customer losses improved year-over-year. Our revenue was down about 0.5% in 2025, driven by customer losses and a challenging political advertising comparison, while EBITDA grew by about 0.5%.
Chris Winfrey: Thanks, Stefan. In 2025, we continued to compete for customers by delivering great products at great prices with continuously improving service. We added nearly 2 million mobile lines for growth of 19%, and we remained the fastest growing mobile provider in the United States. In video, we dramatically reduced our video losses, and in Q4, we grew our video customers, despite well-known headwinds. The video product improvements we've made over the past 2 years, which improved connectivity relationships, are having an impact. In internet, competition for new customers remains high, but customer losses improved year-over-year. Our revenue was down about 0.5% in 2025, driven by customer losses and a challenging political advertising comparison, while EBITDA grew by about 0.5%.
Speaker #3: NVIDIA, we dramatically reduced our video losses, and in the fourth quarter, we grew our video customers despite well-known headwinds. The video product improvements we've made over the past two years, which improved connectivity relationships, are having an impact.
Speaker #3: An internet competition for new customers remains high, but customer losses improved year over year. Our revenue was down about a half a percent in 2025, driven by customer losses, and a challenging political advertising comparison.
Speaker #3: While EBITDA grew by about half percent. The operating environment for new sales, in particular internet, continues to reflect low move rates and higher mobile substitution, along with both expanded cell phone internet competition and fiber overlap growth, similar to earlier in the year.
Chris Winfrey: The operating environment for new sales, in particular internet, continues to reflect low move rates and higher mobile substitution, along with both expanded cell phone internet competition and fiber overlap growth, similar to earlier in the year. Collectively, that drove fourth quarter internet sales slightly lower year-over-year. Churn improved year-over-year, as expected, given the late, given last year's ACP-related impacts, and internet churn, including non-pay churn, remains at low levels. With 2026 in full swing, our shareholders should know that we are a highly competitive group, and we intend to win in the residential and business connectivity marketplace. In this environment, getting back to positive net additions is a game of inches.
The operating environment for new sales, in particular internet, continues to reflect low move rates and higher mobile substitution, along with both expanded cell phone internet competition and fiber overlap growth, similar to earlier in the year. Collectively, that drove fourth quarter internet sales slightly lower year-over-year. Churn improved year-over-year, as expected, given the late, given last year's ACP-related impacts, and internet churn, including non-pay churn, remains at low levels. With 2026 in full swing, our shareholders should know that we are a highly competitive group, and we intend to win in the residential and business connectivity marketplace. In this environment, getting back to positive net additions is a game of inches.
Speaker #3: Collectively, that drove fourth-quarter internet sales slightly lower year over year. Churn improved year over year as expected, given the late given last year's ACP-related impacts.
Speaker #3: An internet churn including non-pay churn remains at low levels. With 2026 in full swing, our shareholders should know that we are a highly competitive group, and we intend to win in the residential and business connectivity marketplace.
Speaker #3: In this environment, getting back to positive net additions is a game of inches. We're incredibly focused on one, more clearly messaging our superior value and utility, and the market in a way that is two, providing the best quality service in recognized by our customers and our service as a competitive advantage.
Chris Winfrey: We're incredibly focused on, 1, more clearly messaging our superior value and utility, and 2, providing the best quality service in the market in a way that is recognized by our customers and our service as a competitive advantage. Let me go through how I believe we'll win. Assuming regulatory approval with Cox, Spectrum will cover over 70 million households, which gives us additional scale to develop new products and services, serve more business customers, and save customers significant money. In 2026, we'll nearly complete our rural build-out, providing us with over 1.7 million new subsidized rural passings with growth for years to come, as well as upside from the densification of higher growth areas in places like Texas, Florida, and the Carolinas.
We're incredibly focused on, 1, more clearly messaging our superior value and utility, and 2, providing the best quality service in the market in a way that is recognized by our customers and our service as a competitive advantage. Let me go through how I believe we'll win. Assuming regulatory approval with Cox, Spectrum will cover over 70 million households, which gives us additional scale to develop new products and services, serve more business customers, and save customers significant money. In 2026, we'll nearly complete our rural build-out, providing us with over 1.7 million new subsidized rural passings with growth for years to come, as well as upside from the densification of higher growth areas in places like Texas, Florida, and the Carolinas.
Speaker #3: Let me go through how I believe we'll win. Assuming regulatory approval of COX, spectrum will cover over 70 million households, which gives us additional scale to develop new products and services, serve more business customers, and save customers significant money.
Speaker #3: In 2026, we'll nearly complete our rural buildout, providing us with over 1.7 million new subsidized rural passings with growth for years to come. As well as upside from the densification of higher growth areas in places like Texas, Florida, and the Carolinas.
Speaker #3: We're gig-capable everywhere. And by the end of this year, 50% of the current spectrum network will be upgraded to symmetrical and multi-gig service. With significant work on the remaining 50% in flight and moving to completion in 2027.
Chris Winfrey: We're gig-capable everywhere, and by the end of this year, 50% of the current Spectrum network will be upgraded to symmetrical and multi-gig service, with significant work on the remaining 50% in flight and moving to completion in 2027. Those capabilities matter long term as customer data usage continues to increase, and we're working with content owners in Silicon Valley to create applications and next-generation products like Spectrum Front Row. That's immersive content with Apple and the NBA that makes full use of our ubiquitously deployed, largely fallow fiber-based network. Bandwidth-rich products have always followed our network capabilities. And think of the last few hundred feet of our fiber-powered network as 1.8 GHz of continuous spectrum, delivered at full capacity to each individual home and business, with the ability to place cellular radios nearly everywhere along the way, fiber deep, power, and right of way.
We're gig-capable everywhere, and by the end of this year, 50% of the current Spectrum network will be upgraded to symmetrical and multi-gig service, with significant work on the remaining 50% in flight and moving to completion in 2027. Those capabilities matter long term as customer data usage continues to increase, and we're working with content owners in Silicon Valley to create applications and next-generation products like Spectrum Front Row.
Speaker #3: Those capabilities matter long term, as customer data usage continues to increase. And we're working with content owners and Silicon Valley to create applications and next-generation products like Spectrum Front Row.
That's immersive content with Apple and the NBA that makes full use of our ubiquitously deployed, largely fallow fiber-based network. Bandwidth-rich products have always followed our network capabilities. And think of the last few hundred feet of our fiber-powered network as 1.8 GHz of continuous spectrum, delivered at full capacity to each individual home and business, with the ability to place cellular radios nearly everywhere along the way, fiber deep, power, and right of way.
Speaker #3: That's immersive content with Apple and the NBA that makes full use of our ubiquitously deployed, largely fallow fiber-based network. Bandwidth-rich products have always followed our network capabilities.
Speaker #3: And think of the last few hundred feet of our fiber-powered network as 1.8 gigahertz of continuous spectrum. Delivered at full capacity, to each individual home and business.
Speaker #3: With the ability to place cellular radios nearly everywhere along the way—fiber deep, power, and right of way—we already have a fully converged connectivity service in 100% of our footprint.
Chris Winfrey: We already have a fully converged connectivity service in 100% of our footprint. Now, with expanding hybrid MVNO capabilities through CBRS and Wi-Fi to drive our seamless connectivity advantage at gigabit speeds wherever you go. So data usage will continue to increase for both wired and wireless networks, and customers don't know or care which network they're on as they move about. It just has to work. That is the service we uniquely provide. In mobile, we have a structural and strategic mobile reselling agreement with Verizon for current and future services, and we'll launch an additional MVNO for business with T-Mobile in the next six months. Nearly 90% of Spectrum Mobile traffic goes over our network already at higher speeds, making us the fastest mobile operator with the best prices.
We already have a fully converged connectivity service in 100% of our footprint. Now, with expanding hybrid MVNO capabilities through CBRS and Wi-Fi to drive our seamless connectivity advantage at gigabit speeds wherever you go. So data usage will continue to increase for both wired and wireless networks, and customers don't know or care which network they're on as they move about. It just has to work. That is the service we uniquely provide. In mobile, we have a structural and strategic mobile reselling agreement with Verizon for current and future services, and we'll launch an additional MVNO for business with T-Mobile in the next six months. Nearly 90% of Spectrum Mobile traffic goes over our network already at higher speeds, making us the fastest mobile operator with the best prices.
Speaker #3: Now, with expanding hybrid MNO capabilities, through CBRS and Wi-Fi, to drive our seamless connectivity advantage, at gigabit speeds wherever you go. So data usage will continue to increase for both wired and wireless networks.
Speaker #3: And customers don't know or care which network they're on as they move about. It just has to work. That is the service we uniquely provide.
Speaker #3: In mobile, we have a structural and strategic mobile reselling agreement with Verizon for current and future services. And we'll launch an additional MVNO for business with T-Mobile in the next six months.
Speaker #3: Nearly 90% of Spectrum Mobile traffic goes over our network already, at higher speeds, making us the fastest mobile operator with the best prices. Mobile's profitable.
Chris Winfrey: Mobile's profitable, it'll continue to grow, and improves broadband churn meaningfully with the opportunity to drive more internet sales. Our network carries more mobile traffic than any operator in our footprint, so we are a facilities-based provider of mobile services, with 5G macro cell towers as backup. Our owners' economics of a differentiated network create long-term advantage, which means we can save customers over $1,000 in a single year with internet and mobile, and now we can do the same with video. Our video product and platform is now a killer app. When our video customers activate their included apps, video and broadband churn improvement is meaningful. Our video product can become another unique selling tool. Seamless entertainment with all the key programmer apps included as part of our service, over $125 of value per month.
Mobile's profitable, it'll continue to grow, and improves broadband churn meaningfully with the opportunity to drive more internet sales. Our network carries more mobile traffic than any operator in our footprint, so we are a facilities-based provider of mobile services, with 5G macro cell towers as backup. Our owners' economics of a differentiated network create long-term advantage, which means we can save customers over $1,000 in a single year with internet and mobile, and now we can do the same with video. Our video product and platform is now a killer app. When our video customers activate their included apps, video and broadband churn improvement is meaningful. Our video product can become another unique selling tool. Seamless entertainment with all the key programmer apps included as part of our service, over $125 of value per month.
Speaker #3: It'll continue to grow, and improves broadband churn meaningfully with the opportunity to drive more Internet sales. Our network carries more mobile traffic than any operator in our footprint.
Speaker #3: So we are a facilities-based provider of mobile services, with 5G macro cell towers as backup. Our owners' economics of a differentiated network create long-term advantage, which means we can save customers over $1,000 in a single year with internet and mobile.
Speaker #3: And now we can do the same with video. Our video product and platform is now a killer app. When our video customers activate their included apps, video and broadband churn improvement is meaningful.
Speaker #3: Our video product can become another unique selling tool. Seamless entertainment, with all the key programmer apps included as part of our service, over 125 dollars of value per month.
Speaker #3: And finally, customers have a platform in Zumo that brings unified search and discovery for all your live TV and apps. Utility and value. At Spectrum, we've made huge investments in our 100% US-based sales and service over the past five years, with our own employees whose tenure and skill improve each month, supported by market-leading pay and benefits.
Chris Winfrey: Finally, customers have a platform in Xumo that brings unified search and discovery for all your live TV and apps, utility, and value. At Spectrum, we've made huge investments in our 100% US-based sales and service over the past 5 years, with our own employees, whose tenure and skill improve each month, supported by market-leading pay and benefits. That investment is already made, and it is a competitive advantage. We continue to invest in technology, including AI, to increase customer satisfaction through self-service, where customers want, and enhancing our employee service capabilities. That's across sales, call center services, field operations, and the network itself. In 2026, for the first time, granular incentives will include Net Promoter Scores.
Finally, customers have a platform in Xumo that brings unified search and discovery for all your live TV and apps, utility, and value. At Spectrum, we've made huge investments in our 100% US-based sales and service over the past 5 years, with our own employees, whose tenure and skill improve each month, supported by market-leading pay and benefits. That investment is already made, and it is a competitive advantage. We continue to invest in technology, including AI, to increase customer satisfaction through self-service, where customers want, and enhancing our employee service capabilities. That's across sales, call center services, field operations, and the network itself. In 2026, for the first time, granular incentives will include Net Promoter Scores.
Speaker #3: That investment is already made, and it is a competitive advantage. And we continue to invest in technology, including AI, to increase customer satisfaction through self-service where customers want, and enhancing our employee service capabilities.
Speaker #3: That's across sales, call center services, field operations, and the network itself. In 2026, for the first time, granule incentives will include net promoter scores.
Speaker #3: We have competitive advantage with our service capabilities, and we're going to make sure we earn credit. The reputation that reflects that significant investment from our customers, one by one.
Chris Winfrey: We have competitive advantage with our service capabilities, and we're gonna make sure we earn credit, the reputation that reflects that significant investment from our customers one by one, and we're gonna guarantee all of it. We'll guarantee internet service through a new Invincible Wi-Fi product we'll launch in February. Symmetrical and Multi-Gigabit service with a Wi-Fi 7 router and battery backup and backup 5G service, seamlessly switched on the same SSID for storms or outage, as well as Wi-Fi 7 extenders for larger homes. Invincible Wi-Fi is a market-first product, combining Wi-Fi 7 with 5G and battery backup. Over a year ago, we deployed the nation's first wireline and wireless service commitment, guaranteeing transparency, reliability, and same-day installation and service. Internally, we're now moving that service window target to two hours and one hour for business at your doorstep from the time you call.
We have competitive advantage with our service capabilities, and we're gonna make sure we earn credit, the reputation that reflects that significant investment from our customers one by one, and we're gonna guarantee all of it. We'll guarantee internet service through a new Invincible Wi-Fi product we'll launch in February. Symmetrical and Multi-Gigabit service with a Wi-Fi 7 router and battery backup and backup 5G service, seamlessly switched on the same SSID for storms or outage, as well as Wi-Fi 7 extenders for larger homes. Invincible Wi-Fi is a market-first product, combining Wi-Fi 7 with 5G and battery backup.
Speaker #3: And we're going to guarantee all of it. We'll guarantee internet service through a new, invincible Wi-Fi product we'll launch in February: symmetrical and multi-gigabit service, with a Wi-Fi 7 router, battery backup, and backup 5G service.
Speaker #3: Seamlessly switched on the same SSID for storms or outage. As well as Wi-Fi 7 extenders for larger homes. Invincible Wi-Fi is a market-first product, combining Wi-Fi 7 with 5G and battery backup.
Speaker #3: Over a year ago, we deployed the nation's first wireline and wireless service commitment, guaranteeing transparency, reliability, and same-day installation and service. Internally, we're now moving that service window target to two hours.
Over a year ago, we deployed the nation's first wireline and wireless service commitment, guaranteeing transparency, reliability, and same-day installation and service. Internally, we're now moving that service window target to two hours and one hour for business at your doorstep from the time you call.
Speaker #3: And one hour for business, at your doorstep from the time you call. None of our competitors match our service here. In addition to backing our customer service guarantee with credits, beginning in February, we'll now guarantee you $1,000 of savings per year when you take internet and two lines of mobile from Spectrum.
Chris Winfrey: None of our competitors match our service here. In addition to backing our customer service guarantee with credits, beginning in February, we'll now guarantee you $1,000 of savings per year when you take internet and 2 lines of mobile from Spectrum. If we can't save you $1,000 or more when compared to the big three telco carriers, we'll credit the difference on your bill during the first year. Guaranteed connectivity, guaranteed service, and guaranteed savings, with the best products in the US, uniquely serviced by US employees 24/7. We want to be America's connectivity company, with hyperlocal service delivered by your neighbors who are our local employees, and with community investment, including unbiased, hyperlocal Spectrum News. All of this will expand to Cox following closing, assuming regulatory approvals.
None of our competitors match our service here. In addition to backing our customer service guarantee with credits, beginning in February, we'll now guarantee you $1,000 of savings per year when you take internet and 2 lines of mobile from Spectrum. If we can't save you $1,000 or more when compared to the big three telco carriers, we'll credit the difference on your bill during the first year. Guaranteed connectivity, guaranteed service, and guaranteed savings, with the best products in the US, uniquely serviced by US employees 24/7. We want to be America's connectivity company, with hyperlocal service delivered by your neighbors who are our local employees, and with community investment, including unbiased, hyperlocal Spectrum News. All of this will expand to Cox following closing, assuming regulatory approvals.
Speaker #3: If we can't save you $1,000 or more when compared to the big three telco carriers, we'll credit the difference on your bill during the first year.
Speaker #3: Guaranteed connectivity, guaranteed service, and guaranteed savings. With the best products in the US, uniquely serviced by US employees 24 by 7. We want to be America's connectivity company.
Speaker #3: With hyperlocal service, delivered by your neighbors, where our local employees and with community investment, including unbiased, hyperlocal Spectrum News. All of this will expand to Cox following closing, assuming regulatory approvals.
Speaker #3: Our plan there is to introduce Spectrum pricing and packaging, rapidly grow mobile, similarly return to internet growth, and, given Cox's low video penetration and our capabilities.
Chris Winfrey: Our plan there is to introduce Spectrum pricing and packaging, rapidly grow mobile, similarly return to internet growth, and, given Cox's low video penetration and our capabilities, we expect to grow video in the Cox footprint for a period of time as well. I also believe the combination of our very complementary B2B capabilities will create growth synergies we didn't anticipate when we did the deal. Winning connectivity relationships in a cyclical and newly competitive environment is a game of inches. I'm not projecting broadband relationship growth this year, but we expect to see an improved trajectory from the investments we've made over the past three years. The recipe for winning here is simple: best connectivity, best overall value, with the best service.
Our plan there is to introduce Spectrum pricing and packaging, rapidly grow mobile, similarly return to internet growth, and, given Cox's low video penetration and our capabilities, we expect to grow video in the Cox footprint for a period of time as well. I also believe the combination of our very complementary B2B capabilities will create growth synergies we didn't anticipate when we did the deal. Winning connectivity relationships in a cyclical and newly competitive environment is a game of inches. I'm not projecting broadband relationship growth this year, but we expect to see an improved trajectory from the investments we've made over the past three years. The recipe for winning here is simple: best connectivity, best overall value, with the best service.
Speaker #3: We expect to grow video into the Cox footprint for a period of time as well. I also believe the combination of our very complementary B2B capabilities will create growth synergies we didn't anticipate when we did the deal.
Speaker #3: Winning connectivity relationships in a cyclical and newly competitive environment is a game of interest. I'm not projecting broadband relationship growth this year, but we expect to see an improved trajectory from the investments we've made over the past three years.
Speaker #3: The recipe for winning here is simple. Best connectivity, best overall value, with the best service. And we aren't perfect, and we own our mistakes with customers.
Chris Winfrey: And we aren't perfect, and we own our mistakes with customers, but we are improving the way we communicate our value, utility, and quality service across our footprint. But I do believe we're the best-positioned company in the connectivity industry, and we will get better. From a financial perspective, we expect our operating plan to deliver EBITDA growth this year, and the investments we've made to lower service transactions and our efficiency programs, including early benefits from customer and employee-focused AI tools, will continue to provide a tailwind for many years to come. 2025 was our peak year of capital expenditure, and capital expenditures after this year will decline significantly. Free cash flow will take off from an already significant amount.
And we aren't perfect, and we own our mistakes with customers, but we are improving the way we communicate our value, utility, and quality service across our footprint. But I do believe we're the best-positioned company in the connectivity industry, and we will get better. From a financial perspective, we expect our operating plan to deliver EBITDA growth this year, and the investments we've made to lower service transactions and our efficiency programs, including early benefits from customer and employee-focused AI tools, will continue to provide a tailwind for many years to come. 2025 was our peak year of capital expenditure, and capital expenditures after this year will decline significantly. Free cash flow will take off from an already significant amount.
Speaker #3: But we are improving the way we communicate our value, utility, and quality service across our footprint. But I do believe we're the best-positioned company in the connectivity industry, and we will get better.
Speaker #3: From a financial perspective, we expect our operating plan to deliver EBITDA growth this year. And the investments we've made to lower service transactions and our efficiency programs—including early benefits from customer and employee-focused AI tools—will continue to provide a tailwind for many years to come.
Speaker #3: 2025 was our peak year of capital expenditure. In capital expenditures, after this year, we'll decline significantly. Free cash flow will take off from an already significant amount; we expect our capital intensity to return to 13 to 14 percent of revenue by 2028 at charter standalone, and we can probably do the same even with the Cox integration.
Chris Winfrey: We expect our capital intensity to return to 13 to 14% of revenue by 2028 at Charter standalone, and we can probably do the same even with the Cox integration. One of the bigger debates around Charter has been about the best way to deploy our significant free cash flow, and that cash flow is meaningful, and it's about to become much larger. Debating how to allocate that cash flow is a first-class problem to have in my mind, and Jessica will provide an update on our balance sheet strategy and capital return priorities in a moment. But the key focus for me and real driver for the team and for value creation of our company is to make sure we deliver long-term customer, EBITDA, and cash flow growth, and demonstrate that long-term growth rate for investors along the way.
We expect our capital intensity to return to 13 to 14% of revenue by 2028 at Charter standalone, and we can probably do the same even with the Cox integration. One of the bigger debates around Charter has been about the best way to deploy our significant free cash flow, and that cash flow is meaningful, and it's about to become much larger. Debating how to allocate that cash flow is a first-class problem to have in my mind, and Jessica will provide an update on our balance sheet strategy and capital return priorities in a moment.
Speaker #3: One of the bigger debates around Charter has been about the best way to deploy our significant free cash flow, and that cash flow is meaningful.
Speaker #3: It's about to become much larger. Debating how to allocate that cash flow is a first-class problem to have in my mind, and Jessica will provide an update on our balance sheet strategy and capital return priorities in a moment.
Speaker #3: But the key focus for me and real driver for the team and for value creation of our company is to make sure we deliver long-term customer, EBITDA, and cash flow growth, and demonstrate that long-term growth rate for investors along the way.
But the key focus for me and real driver for the team and for value creation of our company is to make sure we deliver long-term customer, EBITDA, and cash flow growth, and demonstrate that long-term growth rate for investors along the way. If we do that, the rest will take care of itself. Now I'll pass it over to Jessica.
Speaker #3: If we do that, the rest will take care of itself. Now, I'll pass it over to
Chris Winfrey: If we do that, the rest will take care of itself. Now I'll pass it over to Jessica.
Speaker #3: Jessica. Thanks,
Jessica Fischer: Thanks, Chris. Before covering our results, I want to mention that we made several reporting changes to our customer and financial data this quarter, which are detailed in the footnotes to the trending schedule we issued today. To better reflect the converged and integrated nature of our business and operations, we now present our customer relationships statistics inclusive of all mobile customers, including mobile-only customers. We've also added a total connectivity customers section to the trending schedule, which represents all customers receiving our internet or mobile connectivity services. We've also revised our mobile lines reporting methodology to better align with how we report our other services. Please also note that any forward-looking financial or customer information that we provide in today's discussion or presentation does not include Cox or any transition costs related to Cox integration planning, consistent with how we reported during the TW CBHN transactions...
Jessica Fischer: Thanks, Chris. Before covering our results, I want to mention that we made several reporting changes to our customer and financial data this quarter, which are detailed in the footnotes to the trending schedule we issued today. To better reflect the converged and integrated nature of our business and operations, we now present our customer relationships statistics inclusive of all mobile customers, including mobile-only customers. We've also added a total connectivity customers section to the trending schedule, which represents all customers receiving our internet or mobile connectivity services.
Speaker #2: Chris: Before covering our results, I want to mention that we made several reporting changes to our customer and financial data this quarter, which were detailed in the footnotes to the trending schedule we issued today.
Speaker #2: To better reflect the converged and integrated nature of our business and operations, we now present our customer relationship statistics, inclusive of all mobile customers, including mobile-only customers.
Speaker #2: We've also added a total connectivity customer section to the trending schedule, which represents all customers receiving our internet or mobile connectivity services. We've also revised our mobile lines reporting methodology to better align with how we report our other services.
We've also revised our mobile lines reporting methodology to better align with how we report our other services. Please also note that any forward-looking financial or customer information that we provide in today's discussion or presentation does not include Cox or any transition costs related to Cox integration planning, consistent with how we reported during the TW CBHN transactions...
Speaker #2: Please also note that any forward-looking financial or customer information that we provide in today's discussion or presentation does not include Cox or any transition costs related to Cox integration planning, consistent with how we reported during the TWCBHN transactions.
Speaker #2: Now let's please turn to our customer results on slide nine. Including residential and small business, we lost $119,000 internet customers in the fourth quarter.
Jessica Fischer: Now let's please turn to our customer results on slide 9. Including residential and small business, we lost 119,000 internet customers in Q4, better than last year's Q4, with lower connects year-over-year, more than offset by lower disconnects, driven by last year's ACP-related disconnects. In mobile, we added 428,000 lines, with higher gross additions year-over-year and higher disconnects on a larger base. Net adds in the quarter were lower due to heavy device subsidy activity by the big telco competitors, including the new iPhone 17, through the holiday sales cycle.
Now let's please turn to our customer results on slide 9. Including residential and small business, we lost 119,000 internet customers in Q4, better than last year's Q4, with lower connects year-over-year, more than offset by lower disconnects, driven by last year's ACP-related disconnects. In mobile, we added 428,000 lines, with higher gross additions year-over-year and higher disconnects on a larger base. Net adds in the quarter were lower due to heavy device subsidy activity by the big telco competitors, including the new iPhone 17, through the holiday sales cycle.
Speaker #2: Better than last year's fourth quarter, with lower connects year over year, more than offset by lower disconnects driven by last year's ACP-related disconnects. In mobile, we added 428,000 lines, with higher gross additions year over year and higher disconnects on a larger base.
Speaker #2: Net adds in the quarter were lower due to heavy device subsidy activity by the big telco competitors, including the new iPhone 17, through the holiday sales cycle.
Speaker #2: Video customers grew by 44,000 versus a loss of 123,000 in 4Q24. With the improvement primarily driven by lower churn year over year, resulting from the new pricing and packaging we launched last fall, Zumo, and seamless entertainment product improvements, including our programmer app inclusion packaging.
Jessica Fischer: Video customers grew by 44,000 versus a loss of 123,000 in Q4 2024, with the improvement primarily driven by lower churn year-over-year, resulting from the new pricing and packaging we launched last fall, Xumo and Seamless Entertainment product improvements, including our programmer app inclusion packaging. New connects and upgrades to our fully featured video package with apps were up year-over-year. Our video customer results also include a small benefit related to the YouTube TV/Disney dispute. Wireline voice customers declined by 140,000, with year-over-year improvement primarily driven by lower churn. In rural, we continue to see a strong customer relationship growth. We generated 46,000 net customer additions in our subsidized rural footprint in the quarter.
Video customers grew by 44,000 versus a loss of 123,000 in Q4 2024, with the improvement primarily driven by lower churn year-over-year, resulting from the new pricing and packaging we launched last fall, Xumo and Seamless Entertainment product improvements, including our programmer app inclusion packaging. New connects and upgrades to our fully featured video package with apps were up year-over-year. Our video customer results also include a small benefit related to the YouTube TV/Disney dispute. Wireline voice customers declined by 140,000, with year-over-year improvement primarily driven by lower churn. In rural, we continue to see a strong customer relationship growth. We generated 46,000 net customer additions in our subsidized rural footprint in the quarter.
Speaker #2: New connects and upgrades to our fully featured video package with apps were up year over year. Our video customer results also include a small benefit related to the YouTube TV/Disney dispute.
Speaker #2: Wireline voice customers declined by 140,000, with year-over-year improvement primarily driven by lower churn. In rural, we continue to see strong customer relationship growth. We generated 46,000 net customer additions in our subsidized rural footprint in the quarter, and in the fourth quarter, we grew our subsidized rural passings by 147,000 and by over 483,000 over the last 12 months, above our 450,000 target.
Jessica Fischer: In the Q4, we grew our subsidized rural passings by 147,000, and by over 483,000 over the last 12 months, above our 450,000 target. We expect subsidized rural passings growth of approximately 450,000 in 2026, our last large build year, in addition to continued non-rural construction and fill-in activity. Moving to Q4 revenue on slide 10. Over the last year, residential customers declined by 1.2%, and residential revenue per customer relationship also declined by 1.2% year-over-year.
In the Q4, we grew our subsidized rural passings by 147,000, and by over 483,000 over the last 12 months, above our 450,000 target. We expect subsidized rural passings growth of approximately 450,000 in 2026, our last large build year, in addition to continued non-rural construction and fill-in activity. Moving to Q4 revenue on slide 10. Over the last year, residential customers declined by 1.2%, and residential revenue per customer relationship also declined by 1.2% year-over-year.
Speaker #2: We expect subsidized rural passings growth of approximately 450,000 in 2026, our last large build year. In addition to continued non-rural construction and fill-in activity.
Speaker #2: Moving to fourth quarter revenue, on slide 10. Over the last year, residential customers declined by 1.2%, and residential revenue per customer relationship also declined by 1.2% year over year.
Speaker #2: Given the growth of lower-priced video packages within our base, a decline in video customers during the last year, 165 million dollars of costs allocated to programmer streaming apps and netted within video revenue, versus 37 million dollars in the prior year period.
Jessica Fischer: Given the growth of lower-priced video packages within our base, a decline in video customers during the last year, $165 million of costs allocated to programmer streaming apps and netted within video revenue, versus $37 million in the prior year period, and our three-month promotion for new residential customers that we mentioned on our last call and which is no longer in the market. Those factors were partly offset by promotional rate step-ups, rate adjustments, the growth of Spectrum Mobile lines, and $34 million of hurricane-related residential customer credits in the prior year period. By the way, the streaming app GAAP allocation headwind to residential revenue that I mentioned a moment ago should continue to grow over time as more customers authenticate into our streaming app offers. It could be as much as $1 billion for the full year 2026.
Given the growth of lower-priced video packages within our base, a decline in video customers during the last year, $165 million of costs allocated to programmer streaming apps and netted within video revenue, versus $37 million in the prior year period, and our three-month promotion for new residential customers that we mentioned on our last call and which is no longer in the market. Those factors were partly offset by promotional rate step-ups, rate adjustments, the growth of Spectrum Mobile lines, and $34 million of hurricane-related residential customer credits in the prior year period. By the way, the streaming app GAAP allocation headwind to residential revenue that I mentioned a moment ago should continue to grow over time as more customers authenticate into our streaming app offers. It could be as much as $1 billion for the full year 2026.
Speaker #2: And our three-month promotion for new residential customers that we mentioned on our last call, and which is no longer in the market. Those factors were partly offset by promotional rate step-ups, rate adjustments, the growth of spectrum mobile lines, and 34 million dollars of hurricane-related residential customer credits in the prior year period.
Speaker #2: By the way, the streaming app gap allocation headwind to residential revenue that I mentioned a moment ago should continue to grow over time, as more customers authenticate into our streaming app offers.
Speaker #2: It could be as much as $1 billion for the full year 2026. And as a reminder, the GAP adjustment is ultimately neutral to EBITDA.
Jessica Fischer: As a reminder, the GAAP adjustment is ultimately neutral to EBITDA, as an equal and offsetting benefit is applied to our programming expense line every quarter. As slide 10 shows, in total, residential revenue declined by 2.4% and was down by 1.2% when excluding costs allocated to streaming apps and netted within video revenue in both periods. Turning to commercial, total commercial revenue grew by 0.3% year over year, with mid-market and large business revenue growth of 2.6%. When excluding all wholesale revenue, mid-market and large business revenue grew by 3%. Small business revenue declined by 1.3%, reflecting modest year-over-year declines in small business customers and in revenue per small business customer. Q4 advertising revenue declined by 26%, including the impact of less political revenue.
As a reminder, the GAAP adjustment is ultimately neutral to EBITDA, as an equal and offsetting benefit is applied to our programming expense line every quarter. As slide 10 shows, in total, residential revenue declined by 2.4% and was down by 1.2% when excluding costs allocated to streaming apps and netted within video revenue in both periods. Turning to commercial, total commercial revenue grew by 0.3% year over year, with mid-market and large business revenue growth of 2.6%. When excluding all wholesale revenue, mid-market and large business revenue grew by 3%. Small business revenue declined by 1.3%, reflecting modest year-over-year declines in small business customers and in revenue per small business customer. Q4 advertising revenue declined by 26%, including the impact of less political revenue.
Speaker #2: As an equal and offsetting benefit is applied to our programming expense line every quarter. As slide 10 shows, in total, residential revenue declined by 2.4%.
Speaker #2: And was down by 1.2% when excluding costs allocated to streaming apps and netted within video revenue in both periods. Turning to commercial, total commercial revenue grew by 0.3% year over year, with mid-market and large business revenue growth of 2.6%.
Speaker #2: And when excluding all wholesale revenue, mid-market and large business revenue grew by 3%. Small business revenue declined by 1.3%, reflecting modest year-over-year declines in small business customers and in revenue per small business customer.
Speaker #2: Fourth quarter advertising revenue declined by 26%, including the impact of less political revenue. Excluding political, advertising revenue was essentially flat year over year. Other revenue grew by 7.3%, driven by higher mobile device sales.
Jessica Fischer: Excluding political, advertising revenue was essentially flat year-over-year. Other revenue grew by 7.3%, driven by higher mobile device sales. In total, consolidated Q4 revenue was down 2.3% year-over-year and down 0.4% when excluding advertising revenue and programmer app allocation. Moving to operating expenses and adjusted EBITDA on slide 11. In the Q4, total operating expenses decreased by 3.1% year-over-year. Programming costs declined by 8.4% due to a higher mix of lighter video packages, a 2.2% decline in video customers year-over-year, and $165 million of costs allocated to programmer streaming apps and netted within video revenue, versus $37 million in the prior period, partly offset by higher programming rates.
Excluding political, advertising revenue was essentially flat year-over-year. Other revenue grew by 7.3%, driven by higher mobile device sales. In total, consolidated Q4 revenue was down 2.3% year-over-year and down 0.4% when excluding advertising revenue and programmer app allocation. Moving to operating expenses and adjusted EBITDA on slide 11. In the Q4, total operating expenses decreased by 3.1% year-over-year. Programming costs declined by 8.4% due to a higher mix of lighter video packages, a 2.2% decline in video customers year-over-year, and $165 million of costs allocated to programmer streaming apps and netted within video revenue, versus $37 million in the prior period, partly offset by higher programming rates.
Speaker #2: And in total, consolidated fourth quarter revenue was down 2.3% year over year, and down 0.4% when excluding advertising revenue, and programmer app allocation. Moving to operating expenses and adjusted EBITDA on slide 11.
Speaker #2: In the fourth quarter, total operating expenses decreased by 3.1% year over year. Programming costs declined by 8.4% due to a higher mix of lighter video packages, a 2.2% decline in video customers year over year, and 165 million dollars of costs allocated to programmer streaming apps and netted within video revenue versus 37 million dollars in the prior period.
Speaker #2: Partly offset by higher programming rates. Other costs of revenue increased by 2.4%, primarily driven by higher mobile service direct costs and mobile devices, partly offset by lower advertising sales costs given lower political revenue, and lower franchise and regulatory fees.
Jessica Fischer: Other costs of revenue increased by 2.4%, primarily driven by higher mobile service direct costs and mobile devices, partly offset by lower advertising sales costs, given lower political revenue and lower franchise and regulatory fees. Cost to Service Customers, which combines field and technology operations and customer operations, decreased 3.9% year-over-year, primarily due to lower labor costs and lower bad debt expense. Excluding bad debt, Cost to Service Customers declined 3.2%. Marketing and residential sales expense was essentially flat year-over-year due to lower labor expense, offset by a change in sales mix to higher cost sales channels. Transition expenses related to the pending Cox transaction totaled $15 million in the quarter. And finally, other expense declined by 3.1%, primarily due to lower labor expense.
Other costs of revenue increased by 2.4%, primarily driven by higher mobile service direct costs and mobile devices, partly offset by lower advertising sales costs, given lower political revenue and lower franchise and regulatory fees. Cost to Service Customers, which combines field and technology operations and customer operations, decreased 3.9% year-over-year, primarily due to lower labor costs and lower bad debt expense. Excluding bad debt, Cost to Service Customers declined 3.2%. Marketing and residential sales expense was essentially flat year-over-year due to lower labor expense, offset by a change in sales mix to higher cost sales channels. Transition expenses related to the pending Cox transaction totaled $15 million in the quarter. And finally, other expense declined by 3.1%, primarily due to lower labor expense.
Speaker #2: Cost-to-serve customers, which combines field and technology operations and customer operations, decreased 3.9% year over year, primarily due to lower labor costs and lower bad debt expense.
Speaker #2: Excluding bad debt, cost to service customers declined 3.2%. Marketing and residential sales expense was essentially flat year over year due to lower labor expense, offset by a change in sales mix to higher cost sales channels.
Speaker #2: Transition expenses related to the pending COX transaction totaled 15 million dollars in the quarter. Finally, other expense declined by 3.1%, primarily due to lower labor expense.
Speaker #2: Adjusted EBITDA declined by 1.2% year over year in the quarter. For the full year 2025, EBITDA grew by 0.6%. For the full year 2026, we are planning for slight EBITDA growth, excluding the impact of transition costs.
Jessica Fischer: Adjusted EBITDA declined by 1.2% year-over-year in the quarter, and for the full year 2025, EBITDA grew by 0.6%. For the full year 2026, we are planning for slight EBITDA growth, excluding the impact of transition costs. Note that first half 2026 EBITDA will be more challenged than second half EBITDA, given the one-time benefits we saw in Q1 last year, and the benefit of political advertising that we expect in the second half of 2026. Turning to net income, we generated $1.3 billion of net income attributable to Charter shareholders in the fourth quarter, compared to $1.5 billion in the prior year period, given lower adjusted EBITDA and higher income tax expense.
Adjusted EBITDA declined by 1.2% year-over-year in the quarter, and for the full year 2025, EBITDA grew by 0.6%. For the full year 2026, we are planning for slight EBITDA growth, excluding the impact of transition costs. Note that first half 2026 EBITDA will be more challenged than second half EBITDA, given the one-time benefits we saw in Q1 last year, and the benefit of political advertising that we expect in the second half of 2026. Turning to net income, we generated $1.3 billion of net income attributable to Charter shareholders in the fourth quarter, compared to $1.5 billion in the prior year period, given lower adjusted EBITDA and higher income tax expense.
Speaker #2: Note that first half 2026 EBITDA will be more challenged than second half EBITDA, given the one-time benefits we saw in 1Q last year. And the benefit of political advertising that we expect in the second half of 2026.
Speaker #2: Turning to net income, we generated 1.3 billion dollars of net income attributable to charter shareholders in the fourth quarter. Compared to 1.5 billion dollars in the prior year period.
Speaker #2: Given lower adjusted EBITDA and higher income tax expense. Turning to slide 12. Fourth quarter capital expenditures totaled 3.3 billion dollars, 273 million dollars higher than last year's fourth quarter, primarily due to two multi-year software agreements that were accrued in the quarter.
Jessica Fischer: Turning to Slide 12, fourth quarter capital expenditures totaled $3.3 billion, $273 million higher than last year's fourth quarter, primarily due to two multiyear software agreements that were accrued in the quarter, and higher network evolution spend, which lands in upgrade rebuild spend. 2025 capital expenditures totaled $11.66 billion, slightly above our recent expectation for $11.5 billion, given the new software agreements I just mentioned, which will drive other benefits across the business. We expect total 2026 capital expenditures to reach $11.4 billion. On Slide 13, we have provided our current expectations for capital spending through the year 2029, and now including line extension spending associated with the BEAD program, which totals about $230 million and is mostly in 2027 to 2029.
Turning to Slide 12, fourth quarter capital expenditures totaled $3.3 billion, $273 million higher than last year's fourth quarter, primarily due to two multiyear software agreements that were accrued in the quarter, and higher network evolution spend, which lands in upgrade rebuild spend. 2025 capital expenditures totaled $11.66 billion, slightly above our recent expectation for $11.5 billion, given the new software agreements I just mentioned, which will drive other benefits across the business. We expect total 2026 capital expenditures to reach $11.4 billion. On Slide 13, we have provided our current expectations for capital spending through the year 2029, and now including line extension spending associated with the BEAD program, which totals about $230 million and is mostly in 2027 to 2029.
Speaker #2: And higher network evolution spend, which lands in upgrade rebuild spend. 2025 capital expenditures totaled $11.66 billion, slightly above our recent expectation for $11.5 billion, given the new software agreements I just mentioned, which will drive other benefits across the business.
Speaker #2: We expect total 2026 capital expenditures to reach 11.4 billion dollars. On slide 13, we have provided our current expectations for capital expending through the year 2029.
Speaker #2: And now, including line extension spending associated with the BEAD program, which totals about $230 million and is mostly in 2027 to 2029. For the years 2025 through 2028, the outlook you see on slide 13 is in line with what we have provided in January 2025.
Jessica Fischer: For the years 2025 through 2028, the outlook you see on Slide 13 is in line with what we have provided in January 2025, with the inclusion of BEAD, some modified timing across years, and slight changes across categories. As I mentioned, we have added 2029 to our outlook and expect it to exhibit about the same amount of spend as we expected for 2028. Looking beyond 2026, we expect total capital spending in dollar terms to be on a meaningful downward trajectory. After our evolution and expansion capital initiatives conclude, our run rate capital expenditures should be below $8 billion per year.
For the years 2025 through 2028, the outlook you see on Slide 13 is in line with what we have provided in January 2025, with the inclusion of BEAD, some modified timing across years, and slight changes across categories. As I mentioned, we have added 2029 to our outlook and expect it to exhibit about the same amount of spend as we expected for 2028. Looking beyond 2026, we expect total capital spending in dollar terms to be on a meaningful downward trajectory. After our evolution and expansion capital initiatives conclude, our run rate capital expenditures should be below $8 billion per year.
Speaker #2: With the inclusion of BEAD, some modified timing across years, and slight changes across categories, as I mentioned, we have added 2029 to our outlook and expect it to exhibit about the same amount of spend as we expected for 2028.
Speaker #2: Looking beyond 2026, we expect total capital spending in dollar terms to be on a meaningful downward trajectory. And after our evolution and expansion capital initiatives conclude, our run rate capital expenditures should be below 8 billion dollars per year.
Speaker #2: Just to highlight, that reduction in capital expenditures on its own, from approximately $11.7 billion in 2025 to less than $8 billion in 2028, is equivalent to $28 of free cash flow per share based on today's share count.
Jessica Fischer: Just to highlight, that reduction in capital expenditures on its own, from approximately $11.7 billion in 2025 to less than $8 billion in 2028, is equivalent to $28 of free cash flow per share based on today's share count. Turning to free cash flow on Slide 14, fourth quarter free cash flow totaled $773 million, about $200 million lower than last year, given a less favorable change in working capital and higher CapEx, partly offset by lower cash taxes due to the One Big Beautiful Bill Act and cash paid for interest. Turning to cash taxes, fourth quarter cash taxes totaled $139 million, and while full year 2025 cash tax payments totaled just under $900 million.
Just to highlight, that reduction in capital expenditures on its own, from approximately $11.7 billion in 2025 to less than $8 billion in 2028, is equivalent to $28 of free cash flow per share based on today's share count. Turning to free cash flow on Slide 14, fourth quarter free cash flow totaled $773 million, about $200 million lower than last year, given a less favorable change in working capital and higher CapEx, partly offset by lower cash taxes due to the One Big Beautiful Bill Act and cash paid for interest. Turning to cash taxes, fourth quarter cash taxes totaled $139 million, and while full year 2025 cash tax payments totaled just under $900 million.
Speaker #2: Turning to free cash flow on slide 14. Fourth quarter free cash flow totaled $773 million, about $200 million lower than last year, given a less favorable change in working capital and higher CAPEX, partly offset by lower cash taxes due to the 1 Big Beautiful Bill Act, and cash paid for interest.
Speaker #2: Turning to cash taxes, fourth quarter cash taxes totaled 139 million dollars, and while full year 2025 cash tax payments totaled just under 900 million dollars.
Speaker #2: We currently expect that our calendar year 2026 cash tax payments will total between 500 million and 800 million dollars. We finished the fourth quarter with 95 billion dollars in debt principal, our weighted average cost of debt remains at an attractive 5.2%, and our current run rate annualized cash interest is 4.9 billion dollars.
Jessica Fischer: We currently expect that our calendar year 2026 cash tax payments will total between $500 million and $800 million. We finished the fourth quarter with $95 billion in debt principal. Our weighted average cost of debt remains at an attractive 5.2%, and our current run rate annualized cash interest is $4.9 billion. During the quarter, we repurchased 2.9 million Charter shares, totaling $760 million at an average price of $259 per share. As of the end of the fourth quarter, our ratio of net debt to last 12-month Adjusted EBITDA remains at 4.5, 4.15 times and stood at 4.21 times pro forma for the pending Liberty Broadband transaction.
We currently expect that our calendar year 2026 cash tax payments will total between $500 million and $800 million. We finished the fourth quarter with $95 billion in debt principal. Our weighted average cost of debt remains at an attractive 5.2%, and our current run rate annualized cash interest is $4.9 billion. During the quarter, we repurchased 2.9 million Charter shares, totaling $760 million at an average price of $259 per share. As of the end of the fourth quarter, our ratio of net debt to last 12-month Adjusted EBITDA remains at 4.5, 4.15 times and stood at 4.21 times pro forma for the pending Liberty Broadband transaction.
Speaker #2: During the quarter, we repurchased 2.9 million charter shares, totaling 760 million dollars, at an average price of 259 dollars per share. As of the end of the fourth quarter, our ratio of net debt to last 12-month adjusted EBITDA remains at 4.5.15 times, and stood at 4.21 times pro forma for the pending Liberty Broadband transaction.
Speaker #2: During the pendency of the COX deal, we plan to be at or slightly under 4.25 times leverage, pro forma for the Liberty transaction. As you may recall, when we announced the COX transaction, we committed to move our target leverage to the midpoint of a 3.5 to 4.0 times range.
Jessica Fischer: During the pendency of the Cox deal, we plan to be at or slightly under 2.425x leverage, pro forma for the Liberty transaction. As you may recall, when we announced the Cox transaction, we committed to move our target leverage to the midpoint of a 3.5 to 4x range. We're very comfortable with our balance sheet and our ability to pivot rapidly given our significant free cash flow generation, which provides flexibility to reduce leverage by up to a half turn annually over the next several years. But we have also heard our shareholders' preference for less leverage during a lower growth period. So today, we are moving our post-transaction target leverage to the low end of a new 3.5 to 3.75x range, which we expect to achieve within three years following close.
During the pendency of the Cox deal, we plan to be at or slightly under 2.425x leverage, pro forma for the Liberty transaction. As you may recall, when we announced the Cox transaction, we committed to move our target leverage to the midpoint of a 3.5 to 4x range. We're very comfortable with our balance sheet and our ability to pivot rapidly given our significant free cash flow generation, which provides flexibility to reduce leverage by up to a half turn annually over the next several years. But we have also heard our shareholders' preference for less leverage during a lower growth period. So today, we are moving our post-transaction target leverage to the low end of a new 3.5 to 3.75x range, which we expect to achieve within three years following close.
Speaker #2: We're very comfortable with our balance sheet, and our ability to pivot rapidly given our significant free cash flow generation, which provides flexibility to reduce leverage by up to a half-turn annually over the next several years.
Speaker #2: But we have also heard our shareholders' preference for less leverage during a lower growth period. So today we are moving our post-transaction target leverage to the low end of a new 3.5 to 3.75 times range, which we expect to achieve within three years following close.
Speaker #2: Even with this de-levering, we continue to expect significant ongoing capital returns to shareholders. Lower leverage will drive some impact to our weighted average cost of capital, which should in turn positively affect valuation.
Jessica Fischer: Even with this delevering, we continue to expect significant ongoing capital returns to shareholders. Lower leverage will drive some impact to our weighted average cost of capital, which should in turn positively affect valuation. It should attract a broader constituency of holders to the stock and open the potential for improved debt ratings, including an investment-grade corporate family rating, although that is not an explicit goal. We will continue to generate very meaningful and growing levels of free cash flow, and while we always reinvest in the business as our top capital allocation priority, there are no large-scale projects like RDOF or Network Evolution on the horizon. We expect to revert to normalized CapEx in the range of $7.5 to 8 billion per year by 2028. We will have significant additional capital available to return to shareholders.
Even with this delevering, we continue to expect significant ongoing capital returns to shareholders. Lower leverage will drive some impact to our weighted average cost of capital, which should in turn positively affect valuation. It should attract a broader constituency of holders to the stock and open the potential for improved debt ratings, including an investment-grade corporate family rating, although that is not an explicit goal. We will continue to generate very meaningful and growing levels of free cash flow, and while we always reinvest in the business as our top capital allocation priority, there are no large-scale projects like RDOF or Network Evolution on the horizon. We expect to revert to normalized CapEx in the range of $7.5 to 8 billion per year by 2028. We will have significant additional capital available to return to shareholders.
Speaker #2: It should attract a broader constituency of holders to the stock and open the potential for improved debt ratings, including an investment-grade corporate family rating, although that is not an explicit goal.
Speaker #2: We will continue to generate very meaningful and growing levels of free cash flow. And while we always reinvest in the business as our top capital allocation priority, there are no large-scale projects like RDOF or network evolution on the horizon.
Speaker #2: We expect to revert to normalized CAPEX in the range of 7.5 to 8 billion dollars per year by 2028. We will have significant additional capital available to return to shareholders.
Speaker #2: And, following our normal course review of accretive uses of cash flow with our Board, and consistent feedback from shareholders, we plan to continue to return that capital through our share repurchase program.
Jessica Fischer: And following our normal course review of accretive uses of cash flow with our board and consistent feedback from shareholders, we plan to continue to return that capital through our share repurchase program. We have significant free cash flow growth in front of us, but ultimately, to overcome the perception of negative perpetuity growth implied in our valuation today, we need to win in the marketplace. And as Chris outlined, that's where we are focused and where we believe we can drive value going forward. With that, I'll turn it over to the operator for Q&A.
And following our normal course review of accretive uses of cash flow with our board and consistent feedback from shareholders, we plan to continue to return that capital through our share repurchase program. We have significant free cash flow growth in front of us, but ultimately, to overcome the perception of negative perpetuity growth implied in our valuation today, we need to win in the marketplace. And as Chris outlined, that's where we are focused and where we believe we can drive value going forward. With that, I'll turn it over to the operator for Q&A.
Speaker #2: Significant free cash flow growth is in front of us. But ultimately, to overcome the perception of negative perpetuity growth implied in our valuation today, we need to win in the marketplace.
Speaker #2: And as Chris outlined, that's where we are focused, and where we believe we can drive value going forward. With that, I'll turn it over to the operator for Q&A.
Speaker #2: Thank you. At this time, if you would like to ask a question, please click on the Raise Hand button, which can be found on the black bar at the bottom of your screen.
Operator: Thank you. At this time, if you would like to ask a question, please click on the Raise Hand button, which can be found on the black bar at the bottom of your screen. When it is your turn, you will receive a message on your screen from the host, allowing you to talk, and then you will hear your name called. Please accept, unmute your audio, and ask your question. As a reminder, we are allowing analysts to ask one question today. We will wait one moment to allow the queue to form. Our first question will come from Craig Moffett with MoffettNathanson. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.
Operator: Thank you. At this time, if you would like to ask a question, please click on the Raise Hand button, which can be found on the black bar at the bottom of your screen. When it is your turn, you will receive a message on your screen from the host, allowing you to talk, and then you will hear your name called. Please accept, unmute your audio, and ask your question. As a reminder, we are allowing analysts to ask one question today. We will wait one moment to allow the queue to form. Our first question will come from Craig Moffett with MoffettNathanson. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #2: When it is your turn, you will receive a message on your screen from the host allowing you to talk, and then you will hear your name called.
Speaker #2: Please accept, unmute your audio, and ask your question. As a reminder, we are allowing analysts to ask one question today. We will wait one moment to allow a queue to form.
Speaker #2: Our first question will come from Craig Moffett with Moffett Nathanson. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.
Speaker #3: Hi, thank you. Good morning. Let me start with wireless. First, you signed a new agreement and Verizon have talked about. I wonder if you could just say anything about what that that both Comcast new agreement looks like and whether it has any impact on your strand amount and offload strategy.
[Analyst] (MoffettNathanson): Hi. Thank you. Good morning. Let me start with wireless. First, you signed a new agreement that both Comcast and Verizon have talked about. I wonder if you could just say anything about what that new agreement looks like, and whether it has any impact on your strand mount and offload strategy. And then on that point, Chris, you said that you're close to 90% offload. I think you had previously said 85 a couple of quarters ago, and then last quarter, I think, said 88. That already is a 20% reduction in how much you're sending over the wholesale network that you're leasing from Verizon. Is the 90% just a reference to that similar to 88, or has it gotten even, has the offload gotten even better since then?
Craig Moffett: Hi. Thank you. Good morning. Let me start with wireless. First, you signed a new agreement that both Comcast and Verizon have talked about. I wonder if you could just say anything about what that new agreement looks like, and whether it has any impact on your strand mount and offload strategy. And then on that point, Chris, you said that you're close to 90% offload. I think you had previously said 85 a couple of quarters ago, and then last quarter, I think, said 88. That already is a 20% reduction in how much you're sending over the wholesale network that you're leasing from Verizon. Is the 90% just a reference to that similar to 88, or has it gotten even, has the offload gotten even better since then?
Speaker #3: And then, on that point, Chris, you said that you're close to 90% offload. I think you had previously said 85% a couple of quarters ago, and then last quarter, I think, said 88%.
Speaker #3: That already is a 20% reduction in how much you're sending over the wholesale network that you're leasing from Verizon. Is the 90% just a reference to that, similar to 88%, or has it gotten even—has the offload gotten even better since then?
Speaker #4: Sure. Well, look, for obvious reasons, we'll stay consistent with what Comcast and Verizon have said as well. But that's for the most part, we've amended and modernized our long-term MVNO agreement with Verizon.
Chris Winfrey: Sure. Look, for obvious reasons, we'll stay consistent with what Comcast and Verizon have said as well, but, you know, that's for the most part, we've amended and modernized our long-term MVNO agreement with Verizon and, you know, continued to support profitable growth for both Charter and Verizon. It is a very good deal for them and a relationship for both. You know, as you know, it's long term and, you know, the market evolves over time, and so it's just natural that you have, you know, partners inside of a deal take a look and want clarity on certain things. So I'd look at it more so in that context as opposed to anything else. You know, we have a structural and long-term agreement that underpins everything that we're doing here, and that hasn't changed.
Chris Winfrey: Sure. Look, for obvious reasons, we'll stay consistent with what Comcast and Verizon have said as well, but, you know, that's for the most part, we've amended and modernized our long-term MVNO agreement with Verizon and, you know, continued to support profitable growth for both Charter and Verizon. It is a very good deal for them and a relationship for both. You know, as you know, it's long term and, you know, the market evolves over time, and so it's just natural that you have, you know, partners inside of a deal take a look and want clarity on certain things. So I'd look at it more so in that context as opposed to anything else. You know, we have a structural and long-term agreement that underpins everything that we're doing here, and that hasn't changed.
Speaker #4: And continued to support profitable growth for both charter and Verizon. It is a very good deal for them in a relationship for both. As you know, it's long-term, and the market evolves over time.
Speaker #4: And so it's just natural that you have partners inside of a deal take a look and want clarity on certain things. So I'd look at it more in that context as opposed to anything else.
Speaker #4: We have a structural and long-term agreement that underpins everything that we're doing here, and that hasn't changed. On the 90%, I think it's around 89% or something like that—it's bumping in that area.
Chris Winfrey: On the 90%, you know, I think it's around 89% or something like that. It's bumping in that area, so it's moved up a bit, but it's on a steady climb. And as we've always talked about before, the reality is that we have a very attractive structure and partnership with Verizon, and so we can be opportunistic here. But because of the favorable economics that we've always had with Verizon, continue to have, you know, there's a balance there in terms of the pace of CBRS rollout, and we're focusing that on positive ROI areas.
On the 90%, you know, I think it's around 89% or something like that. It's bumping in that area, so it's moved up a bit, but it's on a steady climb. And as we've always talked about before, the reality is that we have a very attractive structure and partnership with Verizon, and so we can be opportunistic here. But because of the favorable economics that we've always had with Verizon, continue to have, you know, there's a balance there in terms of the pace of CBRS rollout, and we're focusing that on positive ROI areas.
Speaker #4: So, it's moved up a bit. But it's on a steady climb, and as we've always talked about before, the reality is that we have a very attractive structure and partnership with Verizon, and so we can be opportunistic here.
Speaker #4: But because of the favorable economics that we've always had with Verizon continue to have, there's a balance there in terms of the pace of CVRS rollout.
Speaker #4: And we're focusing that on positive ROI areas. I'll mention, we did roll out to the 23 markets last year that we talked about for CVRS.
Chris Winfrey: I'll mention, you know, we did roll out to the 23 markets last year that we talked about for CBRS, probably do, I think, maybe 20 or so more, but we'll be in all the states where we have, you know, CBRS PAL licenses, you know, within this year. We continue to roll out there at an opportunistic pace.
I'll mention, you know, we did roll out to the 23 markets last year that we talked about for CBRS, probably do, I think, maybe 20 or so more, but we'll be in all the states where we have, you know, CBRS PAL licenses, you know, within this year. We continue to roll out there at an opportunistic pace.
Speaker #4: Probably do, I think, maybe 20 or so more. But we'll be in all the states where we have CBRS PAL licenses, within this year, so we continue to roll out there opportunistically.
Speaker #4: pace. Thanks,
Operator: Thanks, Craig. We'll take our next question, please. Your next question from Ben Swinburne with Morgan Stanley.
Stefan Anninger: Thanks, Craig. We'll take our next question, please.
Speaker #1: Craig. We'll take our next question, please.
Speaker #2: Your next question, from Ben Swinberg with Morgan Stanley.
Stefan Anninger: Your next question from Ben Swinburne with Morgan Stanley.
Speaker #5: Thanks. Good morning. Chris, you guys have been competing in the market with a converged strategy for a number of years now. I'm wondering if you could maybe assess the position of spectrum mobile in particular in the market with consumers.
[Analyst] (Morgan Stanley): Thanks. Good morning. You know, Chris, you guys have been competing in the market with a converged strategy for a number of years now. I'm wondering if you could maybe assess the position of Spectrum Mobile in particular, in the market with consumers. You guys have been marketing the product for a long time. You've got very attractive price points, but, you know, you've been building a new product and new brand for some time. Where do you think that sits with consumers today? Is there more work to do? And maybe tie in how the sales force is executing in your mind on, you know, selling that into the base, into new customers. Obviously, it's core to the long-term growth of the company.
Ben Swinburne: Thanks. Good morning. You know, Chris, you guys have been competing in the market with a converged strategy for a number of years now. I'm wondering if you could maybe assess the position of Spectrum Mobile in particular, in the market with consumers. You guys have been marketing the product for a long time. You've got very attractive price points, but, you know, you've been building a new product and new brand for some time. Where do you think that sits with consumers today? Is there more work to do? And maybe tie in how the sales force is executing in your mind on, you know, selling that into the base, into new customers. Obviously, it's core to the long-term growth of the company.
Speaker #5: You guys have been marketing the product for a long time. You've got very attractive price points. But you've been building a new product and new brand for some time.
Speaker #5: Where do you think that sits with And maybe tie in how the Salesforce is executing in your mind on selling that into the base and into new customers.
Speaker #5: Obviously, it's core to the long-term growth of the company.
Speaker #4: It is. So the convergence strategy is working. You can see that in our results. You would, on one hand, you would look and say, well, the net ad rate ticked down a little bit, but it ticked down in an environment with a tremendous amount of flooding the market with subsidies that we didn't match.
Chris Winfrey: It is. So the convergent strategy is working. You can see that in our results. You would-- on one hand, you would look and say, well, the net add rate ticked down a little bit, but it ticked down in an environment with a tremendous amount of, you know, flooding the market with subsidies that we didn't match, and yet we continued to grow, which I think shows and demonstrates the value of the product that customers perceive that we have. I don't think that customers are ultimately, at the end of the day, fooled.
Chris Winfrey: It is. So the convergent strategy is working. You can see that in our results. You would-- on one hand, you would look and say, well, the net add rate ticked down a little bit, but it ticked down in an environment with a tremendous amount of, you know, flooding the market with subsidies that we didn't match, and yet we continued to grow, which I think shows and demonstrates the value of the product that customers perceive that we have. I don't think that customers are ultimately, at the end of the day, fooled.
Speaker #4: And yet we continued to grow, which I think shows and demonstrates the value of the product that customers perceive—that customers are ultimately, at the end of the day, fooled.
Chris Winfrey: They can be entertained with an offer at one point in time, but at the end of the day, you look at the total amount that's on your bill, and if you compare that of our competitors to what our bill looks like, you can buy a lot of advanced telephones, cellular devices with that savings that we provide. So we're the all-in, you know, best product for both speed as well as savings. Now, to your question about market perception, Spectrum Mobile is still a relatively new brand in the marketplace, and
Speaker #4: They can be entertained with an offer at one point in time. But at the end of the day, you look at the total amount that's on your bill.
They can be entertained with an offer at one point in time, but at the end of the day, you look at the total amount that's on your bill, and if you compare that of our competitors to what our bill looks like, you can buy a lot of advanced telephones, cellular devices with that savings that we provide. So we're the all-in, you know, best product for both speed as well as savings. Now, to your question about market perception, Spectrum Mobile is still a relatively new brand in the marketplace, and
Speaker #4: And if you compare that with our competitors to what our bill looks like, you can buy a lot of advanced telephones, cellular devices, with that savings that we provide.
Speaker #4: So we're the all-in best product for both speed as well as savings. Now, your question spectrum mobile is still a relatively new brand in the marketplace.
Speaker #4: And getting that product from your cable providers is still a relatively new concept. So our brand awareness continues to go up every year. The reputation of the product continues to improve and settle in.
[Analyst] (Morgan Stanley): Yeah.
Ben Swinburne: Yeah.
Chris Winfrey: - and getting that product from your cable providers and, you know, still a relatively new concept. So our brand awareness continues to go up every year. The reputation of the product, you know, continues to improve and settle in. The savings recognition and the word of mouth, I think is, is improving, but it'll take time for that to continue to develop. And, you know, if you think back to... some of the things that we did around video, there are other products, broadband, video, and even phone, can both be an asset as well as can be a liability to, the, the mobile reputation in a particular moment in time. And so, you know, when we have, programming related rate increases that go through on the cable bill and impacts the Spectrum customer there, it's closer a little bit to mobile.
Chris Winfrey: - and getting that product from your cable providers and, you know, still a relatively new concept. So our brand awareness continues to go up every year. The reputation of the product, you know, continues to improve and settle in. The savings recognition and the word of mouth, I think is, is improving, but it'll take time for that to continue to develop.
Speaker #4: The savings recognition and the word of mouth, I think, is improving. But it'll take time for that to continue to develop. And if you think back to some of the things that we did around video, there are other products—broadband, video—and even be a liability to the mobile reputation in a particular moment in time.
And, you know, if you think back to... some of the things that we did around video, there are other products, broadband, video, and even phone, can both be an asset as well as can be a liability to, the, the mobile reputation in a particular moment in time. And so, you know, when we have, programming related rate increases that go through on the cable bill and impacts the Spectrum customer there, it's closer a little bit to mobile.
Speaker #4: And so when we have programming-related rate increases that go through on the cable bill and impacts the spectrum customer there, it flows through a little bit to mobile.
Speaker #4: So that's a piece that we try to manage and think through as well. But I think—do I think there's more that we can do?
Chris Winfrey: So that's a piece that we try to, to manage and think through as well. But I think... Do I think there's more that we can do? Of course, and, but we're on a steady path to increasing brand awareness. I think the increasing capabilities to convergence is recognized. Most customers still today haven't picked up on the fact that as you're moving around across the country, both inside our markets as well as other MSO cable operator markets, that you're actually connecting to faster speeds through Wi-Fi.
So that's a piece that we try to, to manage and think through as well. But I think... Do I think there's more that we can do? Of course, and, but we're on a steady path to increasing brand awareness. I think the increasing capabilities to convergence is recognized. Most customers still today haven't picked up on the fact that as you're moving around across the country, both inside our markets as well as other MSO cable operator markets, that you're actually connecting to faster speeds through Wi-Fi.
Speaker #4: Of course. And but we're on a steady path to increasing brand awareness. I think the increasing capabilities to convergence is recognized. Most customers still today haven't picked up on the fact that as you're moving around across the country, both inside our markets as well as other MSO cable operator markets, that you're actually connecting to faster speeds through Wi-Fi.
Speaker #4: And for those of our investors who live in, for example, New York City or L.A., I just encourage you, as a Spectrum Mobile customer, drive around, walk around, and what you'll notice is that you're actually attached not to a 5G network, but you're attached to Spectrum Mobile.
Chris Winfrey: For those of our investors who live in, for example, New York City or LA, I just encourage you, as a Spectrum Mobile customer, drive around and walk around, and what you'll notice is that you're actually attached not to a 5G network, but you're attached to a Spectrum Mobile at a vastly superior speed than you would have gotten with 5G. We haven't, in my mind, we have work to do to really show and demonstrate that product capability in the way that we go to market, and I think that's upside for us. Because it is better speeds, it's at a better price. So eventually, word of mouth gets around that it is a great product. It's better than anything else out there, and it saves you money. So I'm positive.
For those of our investors who live in, for example, New York City or LA, I just encourage you, as a Spectrum Mobile customer, drive around and walk around, and what you'll notice is that you're actually attached not to a 5G network, but you're attached to a Spectrum Mobile at a vastly superior speed than you would have gotten with 5G. We haven't, in my mind, we have work to do to really show and demonstrate that product capability in the way that we go to market, and I think that's upside for us.
Speaker #4: At a vastly superior speed than you would have gotten with 5G. And we haven't in my mind, we have work to do to really show and demonstrate that product capability in the way that we go to market.
Speaker #4: And I think that's upside for us, because it is better speeds, it's at a better price. So, eventually, word of mouth gets around that it is a great product.
Because it is better speeds, it's at a better price. So eventually, word of mouth gets around that it is a great product. It's better than anything else out there, and it saves you money. So I'm positive. And the fact that we can do that in an environment that had so much, you know, as I said, flooding the market with subsidy, you know, I think gives us a lot of confidence.
Speaker #4: It's better than anything else out there, and it saves you money. So I'm positive. And the fact that we can do that in an environment that had so much, as I said, flooding the market with subsidy, I think gives us a lot of confidence.
Chris Winfrey: And the fact that we can do that in an environment that had so much, you know, as I said, flooding the market with subsidy, you know, I think gives us a lot of confidence.
Speaker #5: Got it. Great. Thanks so much.
[Analyst] (BofA): Got it. Great. Thanks so much.
Ben Swinburne: Got it. Great. Thanks so much.
Chris Winfrey: Yep.
Chris Winfrey: Yep.
Speaker #5: Thanks, Ben. Operator, Yep. we'll take our next question,
[Company Representative] (Charter Communications): Thanks, Ben. Operator, we'll take our next question, please.
Stefan Anninger: Thanks, Ben. Operator, we'll take our next question, please.
Speaker #5: please. Your next question will
[Company Representative] (Operator): Your next question will come from Vikash Harlalka with New Street Research.
Operator: Your next question will come from Vikash Harlalka with New Street Research.
Speaker #2: come from Vikas Harlalka with New Street Research.
[Analyst] (New Street Research): Hi, thanks so much for taking my question. I have one for Chris and for Jessica. Chris, could you just provide us any details on how your market share has trended in markets where you've competed against fiber operators for a few years now, and how do you see that evolve over time? And then one for Jessica. Jessica, you said you expect EBITDA growth to be slightly positive this year. By our estimate, political advertising adds about a percentage point to EBITDA growth. Could you grow EBITDA higher than 1% this year? Thank you.
Vikash Harlalka: Hi, thanks so much for taking my question. I have one for Chris and for Jessica. Chris, could you just provide us any details on how your market share has trended in markets where you've competed against fiber operators for a few years now, and how do you see that evolve over time? And then one for Jessica. Jessica, you said you expect EBITDA growth to be slightly positive this year. By our estimate, political advertising adds about a percentage point to EBITDA growth. Could you grow EBITDA higher than 1% this year? Thank you.
Speaker #6: Hi. Thanks so much for taking my question. I have one for Chris and for Jessica. Chris, could you provide us any details on how your market share has trended in markets where you've competed against fiber operators for a few years now and how do you see that evolve over time?
Speaker #6: And then one for EBITDA growth to be slightly Jessica. Jessica, you said you expect positive this year. By our estimate, political advertising adds about a percentage point to EBITDA growth.
Speaker #6: Could you grow EBITDA higher than 1% this year? Thank
Speaker #6: you. Sure.
Chris Winfrey: Sure. So I'll take the first question related to fiber competition. I mean, we've competed well against fiber for many years. We expect to continue to do so. The reality is that's been going on for 15 years, so we have a lot of experience, and we have a lot of data and trends there. We have greater penetration than our fiber competitors, even in mature fiber markets. And you know, when it happens, overbuild's impact tends to be limited to a few percentage points of internet penetration during the first year of a new overbuild in a vintage where, as it were, coming online. It's not ideal for us, but you know, the pace of that's tied to the pace of overbuild, and that's been fairly consistent.
Chris Winfrey: Sure. So I'll take the first question related to fiber competition. I mean, we've competed well against fiber for many years. We expect to continue to do so. The reality is that's been going on for 15 years, so we have a lot of experience, and we have a lot of data and trends there. We have greater penetration than our fiber competitors, even in mature fiber markets. And you know, when it happens, overbuild's impact tends to be limited to a few percentage points of internet penetration during the first year of a new overbuild in a vintage where, as it were, coming online. It's not ideal for us, but you know, the pace of that's tied to the pace of overbuild, and that's been fairly consistent.
Speaker #4: So I'll take the first question related to fiber competition. I mean, we've competed well against fiber for many years. We expect to continue to do so.
Speaker #4: The reality is that's been going on for 15 years. So we have a lot of experience, and we have a lot of data and trends there.
Speaker #4: We have greater penetration than our fiber competitors, even in mature fiber markets. And when it happens overbuilt, the impact tends to be limited to a few percentage points of internet penetration during the first year.
Speaker #4: Of a new overbuilt vintage, as it were, coming online. It's not ideal for us, but the pace of that's tied to the pace of overbuild.
Speaker #4: And that's been fairly consistent. And in the meantime, as a result of all that, we really don't see overbuilders reaching their ROI goals within our footprint now or in the future.
Chris Winfrey: In the meantime, as a result of all that, you know, we really don't see overbuilders reaching their ROI goals within our footprint now or in the future. The piece that I would, you know, add to that is, you know, and I know you've done some analysis around this. Obviously, the introduction of fixed wireless access, you know, has impacts on everyone's penetration. I think that needs to be factored in as well. But inside of our footprint, where we have a lot of experience and a lot of years of fiber overlap, as I mentioned in the prepared remarks, that's not new. And, you know, while it is new competition, and, you know, that in itself presents some challenges, it's one that we've dealt with over time.
In the meantime, as a result of all that, you know, we really don't see overbuilders reaching their ROI goals within our footprint now or in the future. The piece that I would, you know, add to that is, you know, and I know you've done some analysis around this. Obviously, the introduction of fixed wireless access, you know, has impacts on everyone's penetration. I think that needs to be factored in as well. But inside of our footprint, where we have a lot of experience and a lot of years of fiber overlap, as I mentioned in the prepared remarks, that's not new. And, you know, while it is new competition, and, you know, that in itself presents some challenges, it's one that we've dealt with over time.
Speaker #4: The piece that I would add to that is, and I know you've done some analysis around this, obviously, the introduction of fixed wireless access has impacts on everyone's penetration.
Speaker #4: I think that needs to be factored in as well. But inside of our footprint, where we have a lot of experience and a lot of years of fiber overlap, as I mentioned in the prepared remarks, that's not new.
Speaker #4: And while it is new competition, and that in itself presents some challenges, it's one that we've dealt with over time. The bigger issue over the past three years is the macro environment in terms of housing, low moves, and the introduction of—even though it's an inferior product—a brand new competitor in the marketplace with an expanding footprint through cellphone internet or fixed wireless.
Chris Winfrey: The bigger issue over the past three years is the macro environment in terms of housing, low moves, and the introduction of, even though it's an inferior product, a brand new competitor in the marketplace with expanding footprint through cell phone, internet, or fixed wireless access.
The bigger issue over the past three years is the macro environment in terms of housing, low moves, and the introduction of, even though it's an inferior product, a brand new competitor in the marketplace with expanding footprint through cell phone, internet, or fixed wireless access.
Speaker #4: access. All right.
Jessica Fischer: So on your second question, which I think is will we grow EBITDA when excluding advertising? I think the answer is maybe. It's certainly our goal. Look, EBITDA growth is challenged in 2026, given the headwind from broadband subscriber declines. But we think we can overcome that with the combination of mobile growth, changing mix of internet, driving positive ARPU growth, continued operational improvements, and attentive expense management, in addition to what we see from the political advertising space.
Speaker #3: So on your second question, which I think is will we grow EBITDA when excluding advertising, I think the answer is maybe. It's certainly our goal.
Jessica Fischer: So on your second question, which I think is will we grow EBITDA when excluding advertising? I think the answer is maybe. It's certainly our goal. Look, EBITDA growth is challenged in 2026, given the headwind from broadband subscriber declines. But we think we can overcome that with the combination of mobile growth, changing mix of internet, driving positive ARPU growth, continued operational improvements, and attentive expense management, in addition to what we see from the political advertising space.
Speaker #3: EBITDA growth is challenged in 2026, given the headwind from broadband subscriber declines. But we think we can overcome that with the combination of mobile growth, changing mix of internet driving positive RPU growth, continued operational improvement, and attentive expense management.
Speaker #3: In addition to what we see from the political advertising space.
Speaker #6: Thank
Speaker #6: you. Operator,
Speaker #6: you. Operator,
[Analyst] (New Street Research): Thank you.
Vikash Harlalka: Thank you.
Chris Winfrey: Operator, next question.
Chris Winfrey: Operator, next question.
Speaker #4: next question. Your
[Company Representative] (Operator): Your next question will come from Jessica Reif Ehrlich with BofA.
Speaker #2: Next question will come from Jessica Rife-Ehrlich with BofA.
Operator: Your next question will come from Jessica Reif Ehrlich with BofA.
Speaker #2: A. Thank
[Analyst] (BofA): Thank you. I guess two questions, of course. I'm going to ask on video. Chris, what do you think the sustainability of the video sub gains are? And is there any color that you can provide on first quarter trends? And then just to follow up on your comments, you just specifically really quickly about Silicon Valley. Can you, can you give us some color on what the what you're doing? You know, what the endeavors are, what's the goal, and, you know, what's the timing of, of maybe some products coming out?
Jessica Reif Ehrlich: Thank you. I guess two questions, of course. I'm going to ask on video. Chris, what do you think the sustainability of the video sub gains are? And is there any color that you can provide on first quarter trends? And then just to follow up on your comments, you just specifically really quickly about Silicon Valley. Can you, can you give us some color on what the what you're doing? You know, what the endeavors are, what's the goal, and, you know, what's the timing of, of maybe some products coming out?
Speaker #3: You. I guess two questions. Of course, I'm going to ask on video. Chris, what do you think the sustainability of the video sub gains are?
Speaker #3: And is there any color that you can provide on first-quarter trends? And then just to follow up with your comments, just since it's been really quickly, but Silicon Valley, can you give us some color on what you're doing?
Speaker #3: What the endeavors are? What's the goal? And what's the timing of maybe some products coming out?
Speaker #4: Sure. Look, for video, I want to be really clear. Our North Star here—our goal—is not to have net gain of video just for net gain's sake.
Chris Winfrey: Sure. Look, for video, I want to be really clear. Our North Star here, our goal is not to have net gain of video just for net gain's sake. Our goal is to have a video product that supports broadband acquisition and broadband retention, and I think it's a powerful tool to do that if we can provide value and utility for customers. I do, and I know you spend a lot of time in this space. I do think it's good for the ecosystem, everything that we've done. And, you know, of course, we're pleased about that, but that's... You know, that's not what our shareholders ask us to do, and so it's a nice side benefit. But in getting there, I think it does help broadband.
Chris Winfrey: Sure. Look, for video, I want to be really clear. Our North Star here, our goal is not to have net gain of video just for net gain's sake. Our goal is to have a video product that supports broadband acquisition and broadband retention, and I think it's a powerful tool to do that if we can provide value and utility for customers. I do, and I know you spend a lot of time in this space. I do think it's good for the ecosystem, everything that we've done. And, you know, of course, we're pleased about that, but that's... You know, that's not what our shareholders ask us to do, and so it's a nice side benefit. But in getting there, I think it does help broadband.
Speaker #4: Our goal is to have a video product that supports broadband acquisition and broadband retention and I think it's a powerful tool to do that if we can provide value and utility for customers.
Speaker #4: I do, and I know you spend a lot of time in this space, I do think it's good for the ecosystem. Everything that we've done, and of course, we're pleased about that, but that's not what our shareholders ask us to do.
Speaker #4: And so it's a nice side benefit. But in getting there, I think it does help broadband. I think it's important to thank the programmers here, and particularly some of the key execs.
Chris Winfrey: You know, I think it's important to thank the programmers here, and particularly some of the key execs. I'm not going to name them out, but it's a handful. They know who they are. They leaned in, and they continued to lean in to, you know, help us. I think they believed in what we were doing. It wasn't easy to get there, but, you know, eventually, you know, did believe what we're doing. And the reason is because, you know, again, with the viewpoint of solving for our broadband customers, we're really solving for customers first and, you know, providing that value.
You know, I think it's important to thank the programmers here, and particularly some of the key execs. I'm not going to name them out, but it's a handful. They know who they are. They leaned in, and they continued to lean in to, you know, help us. I think they believed in what we were doing. It wasn't easy to get there, but, you know, eventually, you know, did believe what we're doing. And the reason is because, you know, again, with the viewpoint of solving for our broadband customers, we're really solving for customers first and, you know, providing that value.
Speaker #4: I'm not going to name them out, but it's a handful, and they know who they are. They leaned in, and they continue to lean in to help us.
Speaker #4: And I think they believed in what we were doing. It wasn't easy to get there, but eventually, did believe what we're doing. And the reason is because again, with the viewpoint of solving for our broadband customers, we're really solving for customers first and providing that value.
Chris Winfrey: We're unique in a relationship with the programmers because we bring a broadband distribution capability that most others don't have, and that means that we can serve all of these customers with the programmers' product, whether that's a skinny bundle, whether that's the whole expanded product with apps. You know, we get to put in ad-free upgrades that, you know, benefits the customer at a much lower incremental cost as well as the programmer. And then, you know, from their perspective, the direct-to-consumer apps that we sell a la carte to our 30 million customers now, and that's going to be an increasing component.
Speaker #4: And we're unique, and in relationship with the programmers, because we bring a broadband distribution capability that most others don't have. And that means that we can serve all of these customers with the programmers' product, whether that's a skinny bundle or whether that's the full expanded product with apps.
We're unique in a relationship with the programmers because we bring a broadband distribution capability that most others don't have, and that means that we can serve all of these customers with the programmers' product, whether that's a skinny bundle, whether that's the whole expanded product with apps. You know, we get to put in ad-free upgrades that, you know, benefits the customer at a much lower incremental cost as well as the programmer. And then, you know, from their perspective, the direct-to-consumer apps that we sell a la carte to our 30 million customers now, and that's going to be an increasing component.
Speaker #4: We get to put in ad-free upgrades that benefit the customer at a much lower incremental cost as well as the programmer. And then from their perspective, the direct-to-consumer apps that we sell à la carte to our 30 million customers now.
Speaker #4: And that's going to be an increasing component. And so what we've been able to do with video is create the best economics and choice for the customer, which means that we're actually, I think, the best channel distribution path to maximize the opportunity for the programmers as well.
Chris Winfrey: And so what we've been able to do with video is create the best economics and choice for the customer, which means that we're actually - I think we're the best channel distribution path to maximize the opportunity for the programmer as well. And so back to your question about video growth, I mean, the ecosystem is still really challenged. Programming costs, you know, continue to go up. In particular, retrans is a real problem, and, but around that, I think you'll see us continue to innovate. We do have some new product ideas. You know, we'll talk to the programmers about that in the course of this year. But the key, you know, for us to go back to, you know, connectivity, you know, acquisition and churn. So I - on your net gain question, it's not the goal. You're on the razor's edge.
And so what we've been able to do with video is create the best economics and choice for the customer, which means that we're actually - I think we're the best channel distribution path to maximize the opportunity for the programmer as well. And so back to your question about video growth, I mean, the ecosystem is still really challenged. Programming costs, you know, continue to go up. In particular, retrans is a real problem, and, but around that, I think you'll see us continue to innovate. We do have some new product ideas. You know, we'll talk to the programmers about that in the course of this year. But the key, you know, for us to go back to, you know, connectivity, you know, acquisition and churn.
Speaker #4: And so back to your question about video growth. I mean, the ecosystem is still really challenged. Programming costs continue to go up, in particular, retrans is a real problem.
Speaker #4: And but around that, I think you'll see us continue to innovate through having some new product ideas. We'll talk to the programmers about that in the course of this year.
Speaker #4: But the key to connectivity acquisition insurance. So on your net gain question, it's not the goal. You're on the razor's edge. If you use that parallel, and you say, "Well, what happened in Q4?" Q4 was really no different than Q3.
So I - on your net gain question, it's not the goal. You're on the razor's edge. You know, if you use that parallel, there's... And you say, "Well, what happened in Q4?" Q4 was really no different than Q3. You know, there's a slight difference between Q3 and Q4 that went from net loss to net gain. So you can just as easily, you know, flip back into the net loss category, and it's, you know, the net gain isn't our goal. I think the parallel there is, you know, when you're on the edge, and you have a high amount of gross adds and a high amount of, you know, gross or disconnects, it's a dangerous place to be in terms of volatility.
Chris Winfrey: You know, if you use that parallel, there's... And you say, "Well, what happened in Q4?" Q4 was really no different than Q3. You know, there's a slight difference between Q3 and Q4 that went from net loss to net gain. So you can just as easily, you know, flip back into the net loss category, and it's, you know, the net gain isn't our goal. I think the parallel there is, you know, when you're on the edge, and you have a high amount of gross adds and a high amount of, you know, gross or disconnects, it's a dangerous place to be in terms of volatility. I think there's some parallel there to internet and the way that we need to get ourselves out of that space. And when I talk about game of inches, you know, that really applies to all subscription businesses.
Speaker #4: There's a slight difference between Q3 and Q4 that went from net loss to net gain. So you can just as easily float back into the net loss category and it's the net gain isn't our goal.
Speaker #4: I think the parallel there is when you're on the edge, and you have a high amount of gross adds and a high amount of gross disconnects, it's a dangerous place to be in terms of volatility.
Speaker #4: I think there's some parallel there to internet in a way that we need to get ourselves out of that space. And when I talk about game of interest, that really applies to all subscription businesses.
I think there's some parallel there to internet and the way that we need to get ourselves out of that space. And when I talk about game of inches, you know, that really applies to all subscription businesses. You know, if you can get a more commanding lead through the things I talked about, the ways I think we win, I think that helps us in internet, which really is the goal here, together with mobile. Silicon Valley, the big overarching thing that we're trying to do there is communicate to the people who develop products and software, that they should stop developing to the least common denominator in terms of network capabilities.
Speaker #4: And if you can get a more commanding lead through the things I talked about, the ways I think we win, I think that helps us in internet, which really is the goal here together with Silicon Valley, the big overarching thing that we're trying to do there is communicate to the people who develop products and software that they should stop developing to the least common denominator in terms of network capabilities.
Chris Winfrey: You know, if you can get a more commanding lead through the things I talked about, the ways I think we win, I think that helps us in internet, which really is the goal here, together with mobile. Silicon Valley, the big overarching thing that we're trying to do there is communicate to the people who develop products and software, that they should stop developing to the least common denominator in terms of network capabilities. That, because the cable ecosystem covers nearly the entire country, unlike fiber overbuilders, who do a lot of cherry-picking, redlining, you know, we upgrade everywhere. We already have a gigabit everywhere we operate. We're upgrading to symmetrical and multi-gig speeds, effectively nationwide.
Speaker #4: That’s because the cable ecosystem covers nearly the entire country, unlike fiber overbuilders who do a lot of cherry-picking, redlining—we upgrade everywhere. We already have a gigabit everywhere we operate.
That, because the cable ecosystem covers nearly the entire country, unlike fiber overbuilders, who do a lot of cherry-picking, redlining, you know, we upgrade everywhere. We already have a gigabit everywhere we operate. We're upgrading to symmetrical and multi-gig speeds, effectively nationwide. And that's the platform, with low latency, by the way, and that's the platform that software developers and product developers should be developing to. They have, you know, unfettered access to that network convergence, multi-gig, and the product capabilities that come about as a result of that, I think are significant, and our networks put us in a, you know, a unique place to go deliver that.
Speaker #4: We're upgrading to symmetrical and multi-gig speeds. Effectively, nationwide. And that's the platform with low latency, by the way. And that's the platform that software developers and product developers should be developing to.
Chris Winfrey: And that's the platform, with low latency, by the way, and that's the platform that software developers and product developers should be developing to. They have, you know, unfettered access to that network convergence, multi-gig, and the product capabilities that come about as a result of that, I think are significant, and our networks put us in a, you know, a unique place to go deliver that. And so the product that we supported Apple and the NBA with Spectrum Front Row, do we need to own those rights? Do we need to own that product? No, absolutely not.
Speaker #4: They have unfettered access to that network convergence, multi-gig. And the product capabilities that come, I think, are significant. And our networks put us in a unique place to go deliver that.
Speaker #4: And so the product that we supported Apple and the NBA with, Spectrum Front Row, we need to own those rights. We need to own that product now.
And so the product that we supported Apple and the NBA with Spectrum Front Row, do we need to own those rights? Do we need to own that product? No, absolutely not. In fact, what we're just trying to do is show the way that a ubiquitously deployed network in the US exists that can carry that type of 8K or 16K product that provides an immersive experience, that can actually have caching, you know, at the local edge in a way that hasn't been thought of before. Given the fact that just at Charter alone, we have 1000 hubs or data-localized data centers that provide local edge compute.
Speaker #4: Absolutely not. In fact, what we're just trying to do is show the way that a ubiquitously deployed network in the U.S. exists that can carry that type of 8K or 16K product that provides an immersive experience, that can actually have caching at the local edge in a way that hasn't been thought of before.
Chris Winfrey: In fact, what we're just trying to do is show the way that a ubiquitously deployed network in the US exists that can carry that type of 8K or 16K product that provides an immersive experience, that can actually have caching, you know, at the local edge in a way that hasn't been thought of before. Given the fact that just at Charter alone, we have 1000 hubs or data-localized data centers that provide local edge compute. And so we have a lot of assets that aren't being used today. Our experience has been, once people understand that these networks exist and their capabilities there, that they'll develop products to go do that. And so our time out in Silicon Valley has really been spent around making sure people understand that this platform has been built for them.
Speaker #4: And given the fact that just at Charter alone, we have 1,000 hubs or localized data centers that provide local edge compute. And so we have a lot of assets that aren't being used today. Our experience has been, once people understand that these networks exist and their capabilities are there, that they'll develop products to go do that.
And so we have a lot of assets that aren't being used today. Our experience has been, once people understand that these networks exist and their capabilities there, that they'll develop products to go do that. And so our time out in Silicon Valley has really been spent around making sure people understand that this platform has been built for them.
Speaker #4: And so our time out in Silicon Valley has really been spent around making sure people understand that this platform has been built for them.
Chris Winfrey: There, there are things that we can do with it. If you take a look at what we've done with, you know, Amazon in terms of convergence and offloading, you think about the things that we could do in the electric vehicle market in terms of offloading, in a way that's attractive for them and really makes use of the tools that we have. So that's the major goal. The biggest one is, you know, we've internally called it the fill the pipe tour, and to go really explain to people that this network's available there for them, and they should develop to it.
Speaker #4: There are things that we can do with it. If you take a look at what we've done with Amazon in terms of convergence and offloading, you think about the things that we could do in the electrical vehicle market in terms of offloading.
There, there are things that we can do with it. If you take a look at what we've done with, you know, Amazon in terms of convergence and offloading, you think about the things that we could do in the electric vehicle market in terms of offloading, in a way that's attractive for them and really makes use of the tools that we have. So that's the major goal. The biggest one is, you know, we've internally called it the fill the pipe tour, and to go really explain to people that this network's available there for them, and they should develop to it.
Speaker #4: In a way that's attractive for them, and really make use of the tools that we have. So that's the major goal. The biggest one is, internally, we've called it the 'Fill the Pipe Tour.'
Speaker #4: And to go really explain to people that this network's available there for them, and they should develop to.
Speaker #4: it. Thank
[Analyst] (BofA): Thank you.
Jessica Reif Ehrlich: Thank you.
Speaker #2: Thanks, Jessica. Operator, we'll take our next question.
Chris Winfrey: Thanks, Jessica. Operator, we'll take our next question.
Stefan Anninger: Thanks, Jessica. Operator, we'll take our next question.
Speaker #3: Your next question will come from Michael Ng with Goldman Sachs.
[Company Representative] (Operator): Your next question will come from Michael Ng with Goldman Sachs.
Operator: Your next question will come from Michael Ng with Goldman Sachs.
Speaker #4: Hey, good morning. Thank you so much for the question. I wanted to ask about operating expense growth next year and investment opportunities. You guys are obviously seeing really good momentum on the video side.
[Analyst] (Goldman Sachs): Hey, good morning. Thank you so much for the question. I wanted to ask about operating expense growth next year and investment opportunities. You know, you guys are obviously seeing really good momentum on the video side, and streaming app inclusions, and obviously also with convergence and Spectrum Mobile. So, you know, how are you balancing you know, the commitments to EBITDA growth with, you know, the potential to-
Michael Ng: Hey, good morning. Thank you so much for the question. I wanted to ask about operating expense growth next year and investment opportunities. You know, you guys are obviously seeing really good momentum on the video side, and streaming app inclusions, and obviously also with convergence and Spectrum Mobile. So, you know, how are you balancing you know, the commitments to EBITDA growth with, you know, the potential to... you know, invest to drive these opportunities a little bit faster? And, you know, how do you balance that with efficiencies that you could potentially realize? Thank you.
Speaker #4: And streaming app inclusions and obviously also with convergence and spectrum mobile. So how are you balancing the commitments to EBITDA growth with the potential to invest to drive these opportunities a little bit faster?
[Analyst] (BofA): ... you know, invest to drive these opportunities a little bit faster? And, you know, how do you balance that with efficiencies that you could potentially realize? Thank you.
Speaker #4: Balance that with efficiencies that you could—and how do you potentially realize? Thank you.
Speaker #4: you. And Jessica and
Chris Winfrey: I think Jessica can chime in for a second, but if, you know, strategically, if you step back, we've made the investments. So if you think about the place we're coming from, we've made the investment by keeping our pricing low. We've made the investment by having a fully US-based in-source sales and service capability across the country. We've made the investment in our technology platforms. And so that gives us the ability to have increasing efficiency through the business and still be able to innovate and develop new products along the way, and to be able to manage both your foot on the gas and foot on the brake at the same time.
Chris Winfrey: I think Jessica can chime in for a second, but if, you know, strategically, if you step back, we've made the investments. So if you think about the place we're coming from, we've made the investment by keeping our pricing low. We've made the investment by having a fully US-based in-source sales and service capability across the country. We've made the investment in our technology platforms. And so that gives us the ability to have increasing efficiency through the business and still be able to innovate and develop new products along the way, and to be able to manage both your foot on the gas and foot on the brake at the same time.
Speaker #5: Chairman, for a second—but strategically, if you step back, we've made the investments. So, if you think about the place we're coming from, we've made the investment by keeping our pricing low.
Speaker #5: We've made the investment by having a fully US-based in-store sales and service capability across the country. We've made the investment in our technology platforms.
Speaker #5: And so, that gives us the ability to have increasing efficiency throughout the business, and still be able to innovate and develop new products along the way.
Speaker #5: And to be able to manage both your foot on the gas and your foot on the brake at the same time.
Speaker #1: Yeah, I think that's right. And if you think about how that translates into something like cost to service customers, ultimately, I expect that cost to service customers to be slightly down over the year.
Jessica Fischer: Yeah, I think that's right. And if you think about how that translates into, you know, something like cost to service customers, like, ultimately, I expect that cost to service customers to be slightly down over the year, in the year versus last year. But a big chunk of that is related to improvements in operating efficiency, and in the way that we utilize technology, to make our services more efficient. I guess on top of that, you know, in marketing and resi sales last year, we had seen some pretty substantial growth in the year-over-year.
Jessica Fischer: Yeah, I think that's right. And if you think about how that translates into, you know, something like cost to service customers, like, ultimately, I expect that cost to service customers to be slightly down over the year, in the year versus last year. But a big chunk of that is related to improvements in operating efficiency, and in the way that we utilize technology, to make our services more efficient. I guess on top of that, you know, in marketing and resi sales last year, we had seen some pretty substantial growth in the year-over-year.
Speaker #1: In the year versus last year, but a big chunk of that is related to improvements in operating efficiency, and in the way that we utilize technology, to make our services more efficient.
Speaker #1: I guess on top of that, in marketing and ready sales last year, we had seen some pretty substantial growth in the year-over-year. I expect that to be meaningfully slower this year than what we saw last year.
Jessica Fischer: I expect that to be meaningfully slower this year than what we saw last year, largely related to sort of investments that we already made, sort of bringing the expense rate up and then changes that we've made that I think Chris talked quite a bit about inside of last quarter, to really try to find the right way to drive our message into the marketplace, and to do so efficiently. And so I think with those, you know, we believe in our ability to generate EBITDA growth while still doing the right things for the business, to drive, you know, medium and long-term growth, which ultimately has always been sort of the strategic goal of the management team.
I expect that to be meaningfully slower this year than what we saw last year, largely related to sort of investments that we already made, sort of bringing the expense rate up and then changes that we've made that I think Chris talked quite a bit about inside of last quarter, to really try to find the right way to drive our message into the marketplace, and to do so efficiently. And so I think with those, you know, we believe in our ability to generate EBITDA growth while still doing the right things for the business, to drive, you know, medium and long-term growth, which ultimately has always been sort of the strategic goal of the management team.
Speaker #1: Largely related to the sort of investment that we already made, sort of bringing the expense rate up, and then changes that we've made that I think Chris talked quite a bit about inside of last quarter.
Speaker #1: To really try to find the right way to drive our message into the marketplace and to do so efficiently. And so I think with those, we believe in our ability to generate EBITDA growth while still doing the right things for the business to drive medium- and long-term growth, which ultimately has always been sort of the strategic goal of the management.
Michael Ng: Great. Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Jessica. Appreciate the thoughts.
Speaker #4: Thank you, Chris. Thank you, Jessica. I appreciate the thoughts.
Speaker #5: Thanks,
Chris Winfrey: Thanks, Michael. Operator, we'll take our next question, please.
Stefan Anninger: Thanks, Michael. Operator, we'll take our next question, please.
Speaker #5: Michael. Operator, we'll take our next question.
Speaker #3: Your next question, please, will come from Michael Rollins with Citi.
[Company Representative] (Operator): Your next question will come from Michael Rollins with Citi.
Operator: Your next question will come from Michael Rollins with Citi.
Speaker #6: Thanks and good morning. There's been a bit of discussion lately around pricing strategies for these services and whether companies should move to everyday value pricing versus that lower, higher promotional stack.
[Analyst] (Citi): Thanks, and good morning. There's been a bit of discussion lately around pricing strategies for these services and, you know, whether companies should move to everyday value pricing versus that, you know, lower, higher, promotional stack. And just curious, Charter's latest views on how you're approaching pricing and that strategy, and the sustainability for what you've been employing now for quite some time.
Michael Rollins: Thanks, and good morning. There's been a bit of discussion lately around pricing strategies for these services and, you know, whether companies should move to everyday value pricing versus that, you know, lower, higher, promotional stack. And just curious, Charter's latest views on how you're approaching pricing and that strategy, and the sustainability for what you've been employing now for quite some time.
Speaker #6: And just curious, Charter's latest views on how you're approaching pricing in that strategy and the sustainability for what you've been employing now for quite some time.
Speaker #5: Sure. You know this, but by way of background for everybody else, in September of 2024, we introduced new pricing and packaging, and really what that pricing and packaging did was lower our promotional price for Internet as well as our retail price for Internet across all tiers, both as standalone and bundled.
Chris Winfrey: Sure. You know this, but by way of background for everybody else, in September of 2024, we introduced new pricing and packaging. And really what that pricing and packaging did was lower our promotional price for internet, as well as our retail price for internet across all tiers, and both at standalone and bundled, and to provide a price block for up to two to three years, depending how many products you bundled at those lower prices. And despite that, we've been able to, you know, maintain relatively consistent ARPU, in many cases growing. And in parallel, use that to first reactively and then proactively migrate good portions of the existing base to lower product pricing.
Chris Winfrey: Sure. You know this, but by way of background for everybody else, in September of 2024, we introduced new pricing and packaging. And really what that pricing and packaging did was lower our promotional price for internet, as well as our retail price for internet across all tiers, and both at standalone and bundled, and to provide a price block for up to two to three years, depending how many products you bundled at those lower prices. And despite that, we've been able to, you know, maintain relatively consistent ARPU, in many cases growing. And in parallel, use that to first reactively and then proactively migrate good portions of the existing base to lower product pricing.
Speaker #5: And to provide a price lock for up to two to three years, depending on how many products you bundled at those lower prices. And despite that, we've been able to maintain relatively consistent RPO, in many cases growing.
Speaker #5: And in parallel, use that to first reactively, and then proactively, migrate good portions of the existing base to lower product pricing. And, but in the meantime, maintain or actually grow customer relationship RPO through that process, absent some of the video tier mix that is well known.
Chris Winfrey: But in the meantime, maintain or actually grow customer relationship ARPU through that process, absent some of the video tier mix, that is well known, because people are taking more products per household. And so that's been a long-held strategy at Charter, that you can keep your product pricing low, and you can have higher customer relationship ARPU by getting higher product penetration. And that's, that was the goal of that pricing and packaging. At the end of 2025, we were about 40% of our footprint had that new pricing and packaging. We'll probably be at 60% at the end of this year.
But in the meantime, maintain or actually grow customer relationship ARPU through that process, absent some of the video tier mix, that is well known, because people are taking more products per household. And so that's been a long-held strategy at Charter, that you can keep your product pricing low, and you can have higher customer relationship ARPU by getting higher product penetration. And that's, that was the goal of that pricing and packaging. At the end of 2025, we were about 40% of our footprint had that new pricing and packaging. We'll probably be at 60% at the end of this year.
Speaker #5: Because people are taking more products for household. And so that's been a long-held strategy at Charter that you can keep your product pricing low and you can have higher customer relationship RPO by getting higher product penetration and that was the goal of that pricing and packaging.
Speaker #5: At the end of 2025, about 40% of our footprint had that new pricing and packaging. We'll probably be at 60% at the end of this year.
Chris Winfrey: And so we've been able to manage an environment where you are really lowering your broadband pricing at promotion and at retail, both in standalone, but more importantly, in bundled pricing and packaging, in a way that creates significant savings for customers. And whether that's mobile, where we can save you, you know, over $1,000 a year, or it's in video, where actually now we can also save you over $1,000 a year because of the inclusion of the apps. We're using these tools that we have that are really unique in the marketplace. We can offer mobile everywhere, we can offer video everywhere. And I know, you know, you didn't ask it, but so I was thinking about mobile everywhere.
Speaker #5: And so we've been able to manage an environment where you are really lowering your broadband pricing at promotion and at retail. Both in standalone, but more importantly, in bundled pricing and packaging.
And so we've been able to manage an environment where you are really lowering your broadband pricing at promotion and at retail, both in standalone, but more importantly, in bundled pricing and packaging, in a way that creates significant savings for customers. And whether that's mobile, where we can save you, you know, over $1,000 a year, or it's in video, where actually now we can also save you over $1,000 a year because of the inclusion of the apps. We're using these tools that we have that are really unique in the marketplace. We can offer mobile everywhere, we can offer video everywhere. And I know, you know, you didn't ask it, but so I was thinking about mobile everywhere.
Speaker #5: In a way that creates significant savings for customers. And whether that's mobile, where we can save you over $1,000 a year, or it's in video, where actually now we can also save you over $1,000 a year because of the inclusion of the apps.
Speaker #5: We're using these tools that we have that are really unique in the marketplace. We can offer mobile everywhere. We can offer video everywhere. And I know you didn't ask it, but I was thinking about mobile everywhere.
Speaker #5: I know one of our large competitors the other day mentioned that in their wireline footprint, which is limited to where they offer mobile, they thought they could get mobile penetration to 75% to 80%.
Chris Winfrey: I know one of our large competitors the other day mentioned that in their wireline footprint, you know, which is limited to where they offer mobile, they thought they could get mobile penetration to 75% to 80%. I thought that was interesting, because if that's true, and it was said by one of our large competitors, I mean, the implications for Charter and Comcast are, I think, dramatic if you can get 75% to 80% penetration, you know, on our broadband footprints. And that's sustainable. You know, you would say, well, you know, maybe to the earlier point, we don't have the brand, you know, to go do that.
I know one of our large competitors the other day mentioned that in their wireline footprint, you know, which is limited to where they offer mobile, they thought they could get mobile penetration to 75% to 80%. I thought that was interesting, because if that's true, and it was said by one of our large competitors, I mean, the implications for Charter and Comcast are, I think, dramatic if you can get 75% to 80% penetration, you know, on our broadband footprints. And that's sustainable. You know, you would say, well, you know, maybe to the earlier point, we don't have the brand, you know, to go do that.
Speaker #5: I thought that was interesting because, if that's true—and it was said by one of our large competitors—I mean, the implications for Charter and Comcast are, I think, dramatic.
Speaker #5: If you can get 75 to 80% penetration on our broadband footprints and that's sustainable. You would say, well, maybe to the earlier point, we don't have the brand to go do that.
Speaker #5: But we have a structural advantage without the same macro cell tower and spectrum investments that are required of the big telcos. And 90% of our traffic goes on a much faster, multi-gig network.
Chris Winfrey: But we have a structural advantage without the same macro cell tower and spectrum investments that's required out of the big telcos, and that 90% of our traffic is on a much faster multi-gig network. So, you know, we have a, we have a product advantage, and we have the ability to offer those products ubiquitously. We cover all of our DMAs, essentially... and so that provides a marketing and service advantage, and then we can save customers a lot of money with the pricing strategies that we have, back to your original question. So we're, we're pleased with where we're heading. It's, you know, this is a, you know, it's a tough migration path to manage, but we've got a lot of experience doing it, and we've done it many times.
But we have a structural advantage without the same macro cell tower and spectrum investments that's required out of the big telcos, and that 90% of our traffic is on a much faster multi-gig network. So, you know, we have a, we have a product advantage, and we have the ability to offer those products ubiquitously. We cover all of our DMAs, essentially... and so that provides a marketing and service advantage, and then we can save customers a lot of money with the pricing strategies that we have, back to your original question.
Speaker #5: So we have a product advantage and we have the ability to offer those products ubiquitously. We cover all of our DMAs, essentially. And so that provides a marketing and services advantage.
Speaker #5: And then we can save customers a lot of money with the pricing strategies that we have, back to your original question. So we're pleased with where we're heading.
So we're, we're pleased with where we're heading. It's, you know, this is a, you know, it's a tough migration path to manage, but we've got a lot of experience doing it, and we've done it many times. And we're actually, we'll actually end up doing the same thing with Cox, and look forward to doing that as soon as we get regulatory approval there.
Speaker #5: It's a tough migration path to manage, but we've got a lot of experience doing it, and we've done it many times.
Speaker #5: And we're actually end up doing the same thing with Cox and look forward to doing that assuming that we get regulatory approval there.
Chris Winfrey: And we're actually, we'll actually end up doing the same thing with Cox, and look forward to doing that as soon as we get regulatory approval there.
Speaker #1: And Chris, maybe I can be helpful there and translate a little bit of that into financials as well because I know folks are focused on sort of what does that mean for RPO across the business.
Jessica Fischer: And Chris, maybe it'd be helpful there and translate a little bit of that into financials as well, because I know folks are focused on sort of what does that mean for ARPU across the business. We don't often talk about product ARPUs, but I'm going to go there because I think it's helpful in this context as we're sort of doing the pricing migration. Ultimately, I think we expect internet ARPU to grow this year, though more slowly than it has in prior years, as we drive Spectrum pricing and packaging through the footprint. I think mobile ARPU has been declining, as more customers take our Gig product, which includes Unlimited Plus at unlimited pricing. And as we see some contra revenue from phone balance buy a plan, I think that we're at a low point there.
Jessica Fischer: And Chris, maybe it'd be helpful there and translate a little bit of that into financials as well, because I know folks are focused on sort of what does that mean for ARPU across the business. We don't often talk about product ARPUs, but I'm going to go there because I think it's helpful in this context as we're sort of doing the pricing migration. Ultimately, I think we expect internet ARPU to grow this year, though more slowly than it has in prior years, as we drive Spectrum pricing and packaging through the footprint. I think mobile ARPU has been declining, as more customers take our Gig product, which includes Unlimited Plus at unlimited pricing. And as we see some contra revenue from phone balance buy a plan, I think that we're at a low point there.
Speaker #1: And we don't often talk about product RPOs, but I'm going to go there because I think it's helpful in this context. As we're sort of doing the pricing migration, ultimately, I think we expect internet RPO to grow this year, though more slowly than it has in prior years.
Speaker #1: As we drive spectrum pricing and packaging through the footprint. I think mobile RPO has been declining as more customers take our gig products, which includes unlimited plus at unlimited pricing.
Speaker #1: And as we see some contra revenue from the phone balance buyout plan, I think that we're at a low point there. And so there might be additional mobile RPO declines in the year-over-year going forward, but sequentially, I think that we've bottomed out on that front.
Jessica Fischer: And so there might be additional mobile ARPU declines in the year over year going forward, but sequentially, I think that we've bottomed out on that front. And then, you know, there are multiple headwinds that impact video ARPU that make that one difficult. You've got programmer streaming app allocation, which continues to accelerate. You have some more unfavorable bundled revenue allocation, and you have a higher mix of skinnier video tiers. If you think about that together with programming and programming cost per video sub, I expect that programmer cost per video sub will be up in low single digits when you exclude that programmer streaming app allocation. And we did pass through some programmer costs in our video pricing at the beginning of this year.
And so there might be additional mobile ARPU declines in the year over year going forward, but sequentially, I think that we've bottomed out on that front. And then, you know, there are multiple headwinds that impact video ARPU that make that one difficult. You've got programmer streaming app allocation, which continues to accelerate. You have some more unfavorable bundled revenue allocation, and you have a higher mix of skinnier video tiers. If you think about that together with programming and programming cost per video sub, I expect that programmer cost per video sub will be up in low single digits when you exclude that programmer streaming app allocation.
Speaker #1: And then there are multiple headwinds that impact video RPO that make that one difficult. You've got programmer streaming app allocation, which continues to accelerate.
Speaker #1: You have some more unfavorable bundled revenue allocation, and you have a higher mix of skinnier video tiers. If you think about that together with programming and programming cost per video sub, I expect that programmer cost per video sub will be up in low single digits when you exclude that programmer streaming app allocation.
And we did pass through some programmer costs in our video pricing at the beginning of this year. So ultimately, what happens then, you know, to think about it in margin instead of individual costs. So you might have video ARPU continuing to decline, but it's really based on those impacts.
Speaker #1: And we did pass through some programmer costs in our video pricing at the beginning of this year. So ultimately, what happens then is to think about it in margin instead of individual costs.
Jessica Fischer: So ultimately, what happens then, you know, to think about it in margin instead of individual costs. So you might have video ARPU continuing to decline, but it's really based on those impacts.
Speaker #1: So, you might have video RPO continuing to decline, but it's really based on those impacts.
Speaker #2: Very helpful.
[Company Representative] (Charter Communications): Very helpful. Thanks.
Michael Rollins: Very helpful. Thanks.
Speaker #2: Thanks. Thanks, Thanks, Michael.
Chris Winfrey: Thanks, Michael.
Chris Winfrey: Thanks, Michael.
[Company Representative] (Charter Communications): Thanks, Michael. Operator, we'll take our next question, please.
Stefan Anninger: Thanks, Michael. Operator, we'll take our next question, please.
Speaker #4: Michael. Operator, we'll take our next question,
Speaker #4: Please. Your next question will come.
[Company Representative] (Operator): Your next question will come from Steven Cahall with Wells Fargo.
Operator: Your next question will come from Steven Cahall with Wells Fargo.
Speaker #5: From Stephen Cahill with Wells Fargo.
Speaker #4: Thank you. First, Chris, just going back to fiber—you said you don't expect the fiber overbuilders to reach their ROI goals. And we haven't necessarily seen that pressure translate into a slowdown, especially from the telcos.
[Analyst] (Wells Fargo): Thank you. First, Chris, just going back to fiber. You know, you said you don't expect the fiber overbuilders to reach their ROI goals, and we haven't necessarily seen that pressure translate into a slowdown, especially from the telcos. I don't know if that's due to lower cash taxes or something else, but I was wondering if you could just speak to how you expect, you know, the competitive environment to play out when we might actually see a slowdown in that activity that could lessen some of the, the competitive pressure. And then, also just on the promotional environment, I thought slide 5 was interesting, with maybe a $40 gig offer in the market. Was just wondering if you see a really attractive opportunity to be more promotional this year, or, or if I'm misreading that slide.
Steven Cahall: Thank you. First, Chris, just going back to fiber. You know, you said you don't expect the fiber overbuilders to reach their ROI goals, and we haven't necessarily seen that pressure translate into a slowdown, especially from the telcos. I don't know if that's due to lower cash taxes or something else, but I was wondering if you could just speak to how you expect, you know, the competitive environment to play out when we might actually see a slowdown in that activity that could lessen some of the, the competitive pressure.
Speaker #4: I don't know if that's due to lower cash taxes or something else, but I was wondering if you could just speak to how you expect the competitive environment to play out—when we might actually see a slowdown in that activity that could lessen some of the competitive pressure.
And then, also just on the promotional environment, I thought slide 5 was interesting, with maybe a $40 gig offer in the market. Was just wondering if you see a really attractive opportunity to be more promotional this year, or, or if I'm misreading that slide. But if you are, what you think that could do to subscriber trends as we move through the year? Thank you.
Speaker #4: And then also, just on the promotional environment, I thought slide five was interesting, with maybe a $40 gig offer in the market. Was just wondering if you see a really attractive opportunity to be more promotional this year, or if I'm misreading that slide.
Speaker #4: But if you are, what you think that could do to subscriber trends as we move through the year. Thank you.
[Analyst] (Wells Fargo): But if you are, what you think that could do to subscriber trends as we move through the year? Thank you.
Speaker #3: Yeah, so let me start with that one first, Steve. The $40 gig is when bundled with either two mobile lines or video. That's been in the market since September of 2024.
Chris Winfrey: Yeah. So let me start with that one first. The $40 gig is when bundled with either two mobile lines or video. That's been in the market since, you know, since September of 2024. So that's our, you know, everyday pricing that's out there, that's been in the market, and clearly, it's had a big impact on the percentage of gig uptake in, in, amongst acquisition. So it's not new, and we agree with you, we think it's positive. The ROI question, I mean, I've said this for 25 years, that when we take a look at ROI, we think about classic IRR, cash and cash payback, you know, years for that return to take place.
Chris Winfrey: Yeah. So let me start with that one first. The $40 gig is when bundled with either two mobile lines or video. That's been in the market since, you know, since September of 2024. So that's our, you know, everyday pricing that's out there, that's been in the market, and clearly, it's had a big impact on the percentage of gig uptake in, in, amongst acquisition. So it's not new, and we agree with you, we think it's positive. The ROI question, I mean, I've said this for 25 years, that when we take a look at ROI, we think about classic IRR, cash and cash payback, you know, years for that return to take place.
Speaker #3: So that's our everyday pricing that's out there that's been in the market. And clearly, it's had a big impact on the percentage of gig uptake in amongst acquisition.
Speaker #3: So it's not new. And we agree with you. We think it's positive. The ROI question—I mean, I've said this for 25 years—that when we take a look at ROI, we think about classic IRR, cash-on-cash payback.
Speaker #3: Years for that return to take place. And I guess the danger is always that other people's ROI may be based on a going concern, as opposed to a real financial ROI.
Chris Winfrey: And I guess the danger is always that, other people's ROI may be based on a going concern as opposed to a real financial ROI. That-- I'm not sure that you should be investing for going concern ROI, because I think most shareholders would say, you know, we'd rather have that capital back as opposed to deploying it in a, in a low return way. But that's not new. I mean, that's existed in, with telcos for at least... You know, I've been in it for almost 30 years, and it's always been the case. So that makes it dangerous when your competitor isn't focused on traditional financial returns, and shareholders are, you know, either confused or willing to look the other way and, and not insist on, you know, understanding what those ROIs are. I think that's...
And I guess the danger is always that, other people's ROI may be based on a going concern as opposed to a real financial ROI. That-- I'm not sure that you should be investing for going concern ROI, because I think most shareholders would say, you know, we'd rather have that capital back as opposed to deploying it in a, in a low return way. But that's not new. I mean, that's existed in, with telcos for at least... You know, I've been in it for almost 30 years, and it's always been the case. So that makes it dangerous when your competitor isn't focused on traditional financial returns, and shareholders are, you know, either confused or willing to look the other way and, and not insist on, you know, understanding what those ROIs are. I think that's...
Speaker #3: I'm not sure that you should be investing for a going concern ROI, because I think most shareholders would say, 'We'd rather have that capital back as opposed to deploying it in a poor-return way.' But that's not new.
Speaker #3: I mean, that's existed with telcos for at least—I've been in it for almost 30 years—and it's always been the case. So that makes it dangerous.
Speaker #3: When your competitor isn't focused on traditional financial returns, and shareholders weigh in and don't insist on understanding what those ROIs are, I think that's—and that's not me complaining.
Chris Winfrey: You know, that's not me complaining, that's just saying, I think that's what the case is. I don't think it's going to change, and we have to be able to compete irrespective of that, and we do. And we've been doing that, you know, for, you know, for a really long time. So, you know, given what I just said, I don't know when the competitive slowdown occurs. I do know that as you get deeper into the market, the density gets lower and the cost per passing ultimately has to increase when the density gets lower. And so there's a natural throttling mechanism that exists there relative to what they've done in the past. You know, whether it's taxes or interest rates that, you know, put an additional lever on that, I'm not sure.
You know, that's not me complaining, that's just saying, I think that's what the case is. I don't think it's going to change, and we have to be able to compete irrespective of that, and we do. And we've been doing that, you know, for, you know, for a really long time. So, you know, given what I just said, I don't know when the competitive slowdown occurs. I do know that as you get deeper into the market, the density gets lower and the cost per passing ultimately has to increase when the density gets lower.
Speaker #3: That's just saying, I think that's what the case is. I don't think it's going to change, and we have to be able to compete irrespective of that.
Speaker #3: And we do. And we've been doing that for a really long time. So, given what I just said, I don't know when the competitive slowdown occurs.
Speaker #3: I do know that as you get deeper into the market, the density gets lower, and the cost per passing ultimately has to increase when the density gets lower.
Speaker #3: And so there's a natural throttling mechanism that exists there, relative to what they've done in the past. Whether it's taxes or interest rates that put an additional lever on that, I'm not sure.
And so there's a natural throttling mechanism that exists there relative to what they've done in the past. You know, whether it's taxes or interest rates that, you know, put an additional lever on that, I'm not sure. But that's not our job, and so our job is to go compete against whatever's, you know, being brought to us, and that's what we've been doing since fiber's been doing overbuilds for the past 15 years or so.
Speaker #3: But we're that's not our job. And so our job is to go compete against whatever's being brought to us. And that's what we've been doing since fiber's been doing overlaps for the overbuilds for the past 15 years or
Chris Winfrey: But that's not our job, and so our job is to go compete against whatever's, you know, being brought to us, and that's what we've been doing since fiber's been doing overbuilds for the past 15 years or so.
Speaker #3: so. Thank you.
[Company Representative] (Charter Communications): Thank you. Operator, we will take our last question, please.
Stefan Anninger: Thank you. Operator, we will take our last question, please.
Speaker #4: Operator, we will take our last question.
Speaker #4: please. Your last
[Company Representative] (Operator): Your last question will come from Frank Louthan with Raymond James.
Operator: Your last question will come from Frank Louthan with Raymond James.
Speaker #5: question will come from Frank Luthen with Raymond
Speaker #5: Question will come from Frank Luthen with Raymond James. Great.
[Analyst] (Raymond James): Great. Thank you. When you looking forward here, on as far as some of the promotional activity that you have, how long do you see the need for price locks? And what is sort of your thoughts on that as a long-term solution? And then how quickly do you think you can get the Charter, the Cox customers up to levels of wireless penetration that you experience in your base footprint? Thanks.
Frank Louthan: Great. Thank you. When you looking forward here, on as far as some of the promotional activity that you have, how long do you see the need for price locks? And what is sort of your thoughts on that as a long-term solution? And then how quickly do you think you can get the Charter, the Cox customers up to levels of wireless penetration that you experience in your base footprint? Thanks.
Speaker #6: Thank you. When you're looking forward here, as far as some of the promotional activity that you have, how long do you see the need for price box?
Speaker #6: And what is sort of your thoughts on that as a long-term solution? And then how quickly do you think you can get the COX customers up to levels of wireless penetration that you experience in your base footprint?
Speaker #6: Thanks.
Chris Winfrey: Look, we don't have any change, you know, plans to change our pricing strategy. I think the price locks is both a good competitive reaction on our part, and it's something that gives customers a lot of comfort and the ability to switch. And so I think that's here to stay. You know, could you see over time that, you know, we evolve that further into a next evolution? Yes, but we're not at that stage today. You know, we actually think what we have is working and will work, but we'll always continue to modernize our pricing strategies. So I don't see any big change today.
Speaker #3: Look, we don't have
Chris Winfrey: Look, we don't have any change, you know, plans to change our pricing strategy. I think the price locks is both a good competitive reaction on our part, and it's something that gives customers a lot of comfort and the ability to switch. And so I think that's here to stay. You know, could you see over time that, you know, we evolve that further into a next evolution? Yes, but we're not at that stage today. You know, we actually think what we have is working and will work, but we'll always continue to modernize our pricing strategies. So I don't see any big change today.
Speaker #3: Any change plans to change our pricing strategy? I think the price locks is both a good competitive reaction on our part, and it's something that gives customers a lot of comfort and the ability to switch.
Speaker #3: And so I think that's here to stay. Could you see, over time, that we evolve that further into a next evolution? Yes, but we're not at that stage today.
Speaker #3: We actually think what we have is working and will work. But, pricing strategies—so I don't see any big change today on the wireless or the mobile penetration at COX. I think you should take a look at maybe not our early days, the Spectrum Mobile penetration, because we were still putting the product together, getting larger brand awareness.
Chris Winfrey: On the wireless or the mobile penetration at Cox, I think you should take a look at, you know, maybe not our early days of Spectrum Mobile penetration, because we were still putting the product together, getting, you know, larger brand awareness. So, but I think you can take a look at the Spectrum Mobile penetration at Charter curve. I think that's a good indication. I would expect the earlier days to be much faster than that, simply because we were a better operator in that space than we were, whatever it is, six, seven years ago. In terms of our platforms, our sales channel, our marketing, our, you know, national brand awareness, it's all in a much better place.
On the wireless or the mobile penetration at Cox, I think you should take a look at, you know, maybe not our early days of Spectrum Mobile penetration, because we were still putting the product together, getting, you know, larger brand awareness. So, but I think you can take a look at the Spectrum Mobile penetration at Charter curve. I think that's a good indication. I would expect the earlier days to be much faster than that, simply because we were a better operator in that space than we were, whatever it is, six, seven years ago.
Speaker #3: But I think you can take a look at the spectrum mobile penetration at charter curve. I think that's a good indication. I would expect the earlier days to be much faster.
Speaker #3: And that's simply because we were a better operator in that space than we were six or seven years ago. In terms of our platforms, our sales channel, our marketing, our national brand awareness, it's all in a much better place.
In terms of our platforms, our sales channel, our marketing, our, you know, national brand awareness, it's all in a much better place. But I think an improvement to that original curve is probably a good starting point for people to think about how we can get into the market there.
Speaker #3: But I think an improvement to that original curve is probably a good starting point for people to think about how we can get into the market there.
Chris Winfrey: But I think an improvement to that original curve is probably a good starting point for people to think about how we can get into the market there.
Speaker #6: All right. Great. Thank you.
[Analyst] (Raymond James): All right, great. Thank you.
Frank Louthan: All right, great. Thank you.
Speaker #4: Thanks, Frank. Operator, I'll pass it back to you to close out. Thank you.
Chris Winfrey: Thanks, Frank. Operator, I'll pass it back to you to close out. Thank you.
Stefan Anninger: Thanks, Frank. Operator, I'll pass it back to you to close out. Thank you.
Speaker #5: Thank you for joining today's call. You may now.
[Company Representative] (Operator): Thank you for joining today's call. You may now disconnect.
Operator: Thank you for joining today's call. You may now disconnect.
