Old Dominion Freight Line Q4 2025 Old Dominion Freight Line Inc Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q4 2025 Old Dominion Freight Line Inc Earnings Call
Operator: Good morning and welcome to the Old Dominion Freight Line Q4 2025 earnings conference call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star then one on your telephone keypad. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Jack Atkins, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Operator: Good morning and welcome to the Old Dominion Freight Line Q4 2025 earnings conference call. All participants will be in listen-only mode. Should you need assistance, please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key followed by zero. After today's presentation, there will be an opportunity to ask questions. To ask a question, you may press star then one on your telephone keypad. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. Please note, this event is being recorded. I would now like to turn the conference over to Jack Atkins, Director of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.
Speaker #1: Good morning, and welcome to the Old Dominion Freight Line Fourth Quarter 2020 Earnings Conference Call. All participants will be in listen-only mode.
Speaker #1: Should you need assistance , please signal a conference specialist by pressing the star key , followed by zero . After today's presentation , there will be an opportunity to ask questions , to ask a question , you may press star then one on your telephone keypad .
Speaker #1: To withdraw your question , please press star . Then two . Please note this is being event recorded . I would now like to turn the conference over to Jack Adkins , director , Investor Relations .
Jack Atkins: Thank you, Gary. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Q4 2025 conference call for OLD DOMINION FREIGHT LINE. Today's call is being recorded and will be available for replay beginning today and through 11 February 2026, by dialing 1-855-669-9658, access code 9011045. The replay of the webcast may also be accessed for 30 days at the company's website. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including statements, among others, regarding OLD DOMINION's expected financial and operating performance. For this purpose, any statements made during this call that are not statements of historical fact may be deemed to be forward-looking statements. Without limiting the foregoing, the words believes, anticipates, plans, expects, and similar expressions are intended to identify forward-looking statements.
Q4 2025 Old Dominion Freight Line Inc Earnings Call
Jack Atkins: Thank you, Gary. Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the Q4 2025 conference call for OLD DOMINION FREIGHT LINE. Today's call is being recorded and will be available for replay beginning today and through 11 February 2026, by dialing 1-855-669-9658, access code 9011045. The replay of the webcast may also be accessed for 30 days at the company's website. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995, including statements, among others, regarding OLD DOMINION's expected financial and operating performance. For this purpose, any statements made during this call that are not statements of historical fact may be deemed to be forward-looking statements. Without limiting the foregoing, the words believes, anticipates, plans, expects, and similar expressions are intended to identify forward-looking statements.
Speaker #1: Please go ahead .
Speaker #2: Thank you . Gary . Good everyone , and welcome to the fourth quarter 2025 conference call for Old Dominion Freight Line . Today's call is being will be recorded and available for replay beginning today and through February 11th , 2026 by dialing 1-855-669-9658 .
Speaker #2: Access code 9011045 . The replay of the webcast may also be accessed for 30 days at the company's website . This conference call may contain forward looking statements within the meaning of the private securities litigation Reform Act of 1995 , including statements , among regarding others , Old Dominion's financial and operating performance .
Speaker #2: For this purpose, any statements made during this call that are not statements of historical fact are expected to be forward-looking statements. Without limiting the foregoing, words such as 'believes', 'anticipates', 'plans', 'expects', and similar expressions are intended to identify forward-looking statements.
Jack Atkins: You are hereby cautioned that these statements may be affected by the important factors, among others, set forth in Old Dominion's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission and in this morning's news release. Consequently, actual operations and results may differ materially from the results discussed in the forward-looking statements. The company undertakes no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. As a final note before we begin, we welcome your questions today, but ask that you limit yourself to just one question at a time before returning to the queue. At this time, for opening remarks, I'd like to turn the conference over to the company's President and Chief Executive Officer, Marty Freeman. Marty, please go ahead.
Jack Atkins: You are hereby cautioned that these statements may be affected by the important factors, among others, set forth in Old Dominion's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission and in this morning's news release. Consequently, actual operations and results may differ materially from the results discussed in the forward-looking statements. The company undertakes no obligation to publicly update any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. As a final note before we begin, we welcome your questions today, but ask that you limit yourself to just one question at a time before returning to the queue. At this time, for opening remarks, I'd like to turn the conference over to the company's President and Chief Executive Officer, Marty Freeman. Marty, please go ahead.
Speaker #2: You are hereby cautioned that these statements may affected by the factors , important forth in set among others , filings Old Dominion's with the Securities and Commission .
Speaker #2: And in this morning's news release . Consequently , actual operations and results may differ materially from the results Exchange . The company undertakes no obligation to publicly update any forward looking statements , whether as a result of new information , future events or otherwise .
Speaker #2: final note , As a before we begin , we welcome your questions today , but ask that you limit yourself to just one question at a time before returning to the queue .
Speaker #2: this At . At this time for opening remarks , I'd like to turn the conference over to the company's president and Chief Executive Marty Officer , Friedman .
Marty Freeman: Good morning and welcome to our Q4 conference call. With me on the call today is Adam Satterfield, our CFO, and after some brief remarks, we will be glad to take your questions. OLD DOMINION produced solid financial results during the Q4 that reflect our ongoing commitment to revenue quality and cost discipline. We once again delivered best-in-class service to our customers, and our yields continue to improve. Although our operating ratio increased to a 76.7 for the quarter, we believe our profitability metrics will continue to lead our industry, and they reflect our team's ability to operate efficiently despite the challenging environment. I want to thank our OD family of employees for their dedication to our customers and their unwavering commitment to executing our long-term strategic plan.
Marty Freeman: Good morning and welcome to our Q4 conference call. With me on the call today is Adam Satterfield, our CFO, and after some brief remarks, we will be glad to take your questions. OLD DOMINION produced solid financial results during the Q4 that reflect our ongoing commitment to revenue quality and cost discipline. We once again delivered best-in-class service to our customers, and our yields continue to improve. Although our operating ratio increased to a 76.7 for the quarter, we believe our profitability metrics will continue to lead our industry, and they reflect our team's ability to operate efficiently despite the challenging environment. I want to thank our OD family of employees for their dedication to our customers and their unwavering commitment to executing our long-term strategic plan.
Speaker #2: Marty . ahead Please go .
Speaker #3: Good , and morning welcome to our conference fourth quarter call with me on the call . Today is Adam Satterfield . Our CFO .
Speaker #3: And after some brief remarks, we will be glad to take your questions. Old Dominion produced solid financial results during the fourth quarter that reflect our ongoing commitment to revenue, quality, and cost discipline.
Speaker #3: We once again delivered best in class service to our customers and our yields continue to improve . Although our operating ratio increased to a 76.7 for the quarter .
Speaker #3: We believe our profitability metrics will continue to lead our industry , and they reflect our team's ability to operate efficiently despite the challenging environment thank our .
Marty Freeman: Our team remains focused on controlling what we can control to ensure that we continue to deliver an unmatched value proposition for our customers. The foundation of this value proposition is our ability to deliver superior service at a fair price. Our customers know that they can expect the highest standard of service from OLD DOMINION every day, which positions them to drive value for their own customers. We are pleased to once again provide 99% on-time service in the Q4 and a cargo claims ratio of 0.1%. Our track record of consistently delivering superior service has helped us to win market share over the long term while also supporting our ongoing commitment to revenue quality.
Marty Freeman: Our team remains focused on controlling what we can control to ensure that we continue to deliver an unmatched value proposition for our customers. The foundation of this value proposition is our ability to deliver superior service at a fair price. Our customers know that they can expect the highest standard of service from OLD DOMINION every day, which positions them to drive value for their own customers. We are pleased to once again provide 99% on-time service in the Q4 and a cargo claims ratio of 0.1%. Our track record of consistently delivering superior service has helped us to win market share over the long term while also supporting our ongoing commitment to revenue quality.
Speaker #3: We are proud of our employees for their dedication to our customers and their unwavering commitment to executing our long-term strategic plan. Our team remains focused on controlling what we can control to ensure that we continue to deliver an unmatched value proposition for our customers.
Speaker #3: The foundation of this value proposition is our ability to superior deliver service at a fair price . Our customers know that they can expect the highest standard of service from Old Dominion every day .
Speaker #3: Which positions them to drive value for their own customers. We are pleased to once again provide 99% on-time service in the fourth quarter, cargo, and a claims ratio of 0.1%.
Speaker #3: Our track record of consistently delivering superior service has helped us to win market share over the long term, while also supporting our ongoing commitment to revenue quality.
Marty Freeman: We maintain a disciplined approach to yield management that is designed to offset our cost inflation over the long term while also allowing us to continue to make strategic investments in our capacity, our technology, and most importantly, our people. While these investments have increased our overhead costs in the short term, we believe they will support our ability to grow with customers in the years ahead. Our consistent investment in capital expenditures throughout this economic cycle has differentiated us from our competitors over time. This is also a fundamental component of our value proposition, which has been critical to our ability to win more market share over the last decade than any other LTL carrier. During the Q4, our team continued to operate efficiently while also managing our discretionary spending.
Marty Freeman: We maintain a disciplined approach to yield management that is designed to offset our cost inflation over the long term while also allowing us to continue to make strategic investments in our capacity, our technology, and most importantly, our people. While these investments have increased our overhead costs in the short term, we believe they will support our ability to grow with customers in the years ahead. Our consistent investment in capital expenditures throughout this economic cycle has differentiated us from our competitors over time. This is also a fundamental component of our value proposition, which has been critical to our ability to win more market share over the last decade than any other LTL carrier. During the Q4, our team continued to operate efficiently while also managing our discretionary spending.
Speaker #3: We maintain a disciplined approach to management that is designed to offset our cost inflation over the long term, while also allowing us to continue to make strategic investments in our capacity.
Speaker #3: Our technology and, most importantly, our people. While these investments have increased overhead costs in the near term, we believe they will support our ability to grow with customers in the years ahead.
Speaker #3: Our consistent investment in capital expenditures throughout this cycle has economic differentiated us from our competitors over time . This is also a fundamental component of our value proposition , which has been critical to our ability to win more share last market decade over the than any other LTL carrier During our the fourth quarter , .
Marty Freeman: These efforts are reflected by how well we have controlled our variable operating costs over the last few years despite the decline in our overall network density and other inflationary headwinds. To put this in context, in 2022, when we generated a company record operating ratio of 70.6, our direct operating expenses were approximately 53% of revenue. In 2025, our direct operating costs as a percent of revenue were also 53% despite the loss of network density associated with the decrease in volumes. Our efforts to enhance productivity have been made possible by key technology investments as well as business process improvements, which we believe will allow us to improve our operating ratio and business levels ultimately improve again. As we begin 2026, we are cautiously optimistic that we will see some recovery in demand within the industry.
Marty Freeman: These efforts are reflected by how well we have controlled our variable operating costs over the last few years despite the decline in our overall network density and other inflationary headwinds. To put this in context, in 2022, when we generated a company record operating ratio of 70.6, our direct operating expenses were approximately 53% of revenue. In 2025, our direct operating costs as a percent of revenue were also 53% despite the loss of network density associated with the decrease in volumes. Our efforts to enhance productivity have been made possible by key technology investments as well as business process improvements, which we believe will allow us to improve our operating ratio and business levels ultimately improve again. As we begin 2026, we are cautiously optimistic that we will see some recovery in demand within the industry.
Speaker #3: team continued to operate efficiently while also managing our discretionary spending . These efforts are reflected by how well we have controlled our variable operating costs over the last few years .
Speaker #3: Despite the decline in our overall network density and other inflationary headwinds . To put this in context , in 2022 , when we generated a company record operating ratio of 70.6 , our direct operating expenses were approximately 53% of revenue .
Speaker #3: In 2025 . Our operating costs as a percent of were revenue also 53% . Despite the loss of net density , density associated with the decrease in volumes , our efforts to enhance productivity have been possible by key technology investments as well as business process improvements , which we believe will allow us to improve our operating ratio when business ultimately improve again .
Marty Freeman: With the combination of our industry-leading service standards and more network capacity than we've ever had, we are better positioned than any other carrier to capitalize on improving the economy. As a result, we are confident in our ability to win market share, generate profitable revenue growth, and increase shareholder value over the long term. Thank you very much for joining us this morning, and now Adam will discuss our Q4 in greater detail.
Marty Freeman: With the combination of our industry-leading service standards and more network capacity than we've ever had, we are better positioned than any other carrier to capitalize on improving the economy. As a result, we are confident in our ability to win market share, generate profitable revenue growth, and increase shareholder value over the long term. Thank you very much for joining us this morning, and now Adam will discuss our Q4 in greater detail.
Speaker #3: As we begin we are 2026 , cautiously optimistic that we will see some recovery in demand within the industry with the combination of our industry leading service standards and more network capacity than we've ever had .
Speaker #3: We are better positioned than any other carrier to improving economy . As a result , we are capitalize on confident in our to win ability market share , generate profitable revenue growth , and increase shareholder value over the long term .
Adam Satterfield: Thank you, Marty, and good morning. OLD DOMINION's revenue totaled $1.31 billion for the Q4 of 2025, which was a 5.7% decrease from the prior year. Our revenue results reflect a 10.7% decrease in LTL tons per day that was partially offset by a 5.6% increase in our LTL revenue per hundredweight. Excluding fuel surcharges, our LTL revenue per hundredweight increased 4.9% compared to the Q4 of 2024. On a sequential basis, our revenue per day for the Q4 decreased 4.1% when compared to the Q4 of 2025, with LTL tons per day decreasing 4.8% and LTL shipments per day decreasing 6.5%. For comparison, the 10-year average sequential change for these metrics includes a decrease of 0.3% in revenue per day, a decrease of 1.3% in LTL tons per day, and a decrease of 3.1% in LTL shipments per day.
Adam Satterfield: Thank you, Marty, and good morning. OLD DOMINION's revenue totaled $1.31 billion for the Q4 of 2025, which was a 5.7% decrease from the prior year. Our revenue results reflect a 10.7% decrease in LTL tons per day that was partially offset by a 5.6% increase in our LTL revenue per hundredweight. Excluding fuel surcharges, our LTL revenue per hundredweight increased 4.9% compared to the Q4 of 2024. On a sequential basis, our revenue per day for the Q4 decreased 4.1% when compared to the Q4 of 2025, with LTL tons per day decreasing 4.8% and LTL shipments per day decreasing 6.5%. For comparison, the 10-year average sequential change for these metrics includes a decrease of 0.3% in revenue per day, a decrease of 1.3% in LTL tons per day, and a decrease of 3.1% in LTL shipments per day.
Speaker #3: Thank you very much for joining us this morning. And now, Adam will discuss our fourth quarter in greater detail.
Speaker #4: Thank you , Marty , and good morning , Old Dominion . Revenue totaled $1.31 billion for the fourth quarter of 2025 , which was a 5.7% decrease from the prior year .
Speaker #4: Our revenue results reflect a 10.7% decrease in LTL tons per day. That was partially offset by a 5.6% increase in our per LTL revenue hundredweight, excluding fuel surcharges.
Speaker #4: Our LTL revenue per hundredweight increased 4.9% compared to the fourth quarter of 2024 . On a sequential basis . Our revenue per day for the fourth quarter decreased 4.1% when compared to the third quarter of 2025 , with LTL tons per day decreasing 4.8% , and LTL shipments per day decreasing 6.5% .
Speaker #4: For comparison , the ten year average change sequential for these metrics includes a decrease of 0.3% in revenue per day , a decrease of 1.3% in LTL tons per day , and a decrease of 3.1% in LTL shipments per day .
Adam Satterfield: The monthly sequential changes in LTL tons per day during the Q4 were as follows: October decreased 5.3% as compared to September, November increased 2.6% as compared to October, and December decreased 4.0% as compared to November. The 10-year average change for these respective months is a decrease of 3.0% in October, an increase of 2.7% in November, and a decrease of 6.8% in December. For January, our revenue per day decreased 6.8% when compared to January 2025 due to a 9.6% decrease in our LTL tons per day that was partially offset by an increase in our LTL revenue per hundredweight. LTL revenue per hundredweight excluding fuel surcharges increased 3.9% in January. Our operating ratio increased 80 basis points to 76.7% for the Q4 of 2025.
Adam Satterfield: The monthly sequential changes in LTL tons per day during the Q4 were as follows: October decreased 5.3% as compared to September, November increased 2.6% as compared to October, and December decreased 4.0% as compared to November. The 10-year average change for these respective months is a decrease of 3.0% in October, an increase of 2.7% in November, and a decrease of 6.8% in December. For January, our revenue per day decreased 6.8% when compared to January 2025 due to a 9.6% decrease in our LTL tons per day that was partially offset by an increase in our LTL revenue per hundredweight. LTL revenue per hundredweight excluding fuel surcharges increased 3.9% in January. Our operating ratio increased 80 basis points to 76.7% for the Q4 of 2025.
Speaker #4: The monthly sequential changes in LTL tons per day during the fourth quarter were as follows October decreased to September . November increased 2.6% as compared to October and December decreased 4.0% as compared to November .
Speaker #4: The ten-year average change for these respective months is a decrease of 3.0% in October, an increase of 2.7% in November, and a decrease of 6.8% in December.
Speaker #4: For January , a revenue per day decreased 6.8% when compared to January 2025 , due to a 9.6% decrease in our LTL tons per day .
Speaker #4: That was partially offset by an increase in our LTL revenue per hundredweight , LTL revenue per hundredweight , excluding fuel surcharges , increased 3.9% in January .
Speaker #4: Our ratio operating increased 80 basis points to 76.7% for the fourth quarter of 2025, while we continued to operate efficiently, diligently, and managed our discretionary spending during the quarter.
Adam Satterfield: While we continued to operate efficiently and diligently managed our discretionary spending during the quarter, the decrease in our revenue had a deleveraging effect on many of our operating expenses. Our overhead costs, which tend to be more fixed in nature, increased 140 basis points as a percent of revenue due to this effect. The increase in our overhead costs also includes a 70 basis point increase in depreciation as a percent of revenue, which reflects the continued execution of our long-term capital investment plan that Marty just discussed. Our direct operating cost as a percent of revenue improved by 60 basis points as compared to the Q4 of 2024. This was primarily due to the net impact of adjustments we record in the Q4 each year that are related to third-party actuarial reviews of our injury and accident claims.
Adam Satterfield: While we continued to operate efficiently and diligently managed our discretionary spending during the quarter, the decrease in our revenue had a deleveraging effect on many of our operating expenses. Our overhead costs, which tend to be more fixed in nature, increased 140 basis points as a percent of revenue due to this effect. The increase in our overhead costs also includes a 70 basis point increase in depreciation as a percent of revenue, which reflects the continued execution of our long-term capital investment plan that Marty just discussed. Our direct operating cost as a percent of revenue improved by 60 basis points as compared to the Q4 of 2024. This was primarily due to the net impact of adjustments we record in the Q4 each year that are related to third-party actuarial reviews of our injury and accident claims.
Speaker #4: The decrease in our revenue had an effect on deleveraging many of our operating expenses. Our overhead costs, which tend to be more fixed in nature, increased 140 basis points as a percent of revenue.
Speaker #4: This effect, due to the increase in our overhead, also includes the cost of a 70 basis point increase in depreciation as a percent of revenue, which reflects the continued execution of our long-term capital investment plan that Marty just discussed.
Speaker #4: Our direct operating cost as a percent of revenue improved by 60 basis points as compared to the fourth quarter of 2020. This was primarily due to the net impact of the adjustments we recorded in the fourth quarter.
Adam Satterfield: The results of this annual review impact both the salary, wages, and benefits, and the insurance and claims line items on our income statement. We were otherwise able to effectively manage our direct variable costs to be consistent with the prior year. OLD DOMINION's cash flow from operations totaled $310.2 million for the Q4 and $1.4 billion for the year, respectively, while capital expenditures were $45.7 million and $415 million for the same periods. We utilized $124.9 million and $730.3 million of cash for our share repurchase program during the Q4 and the year, respectively, while our cash dividends totaled $58.4 million and $235.6 million for the same periods. We were pleased that our board of directors approved a quarterly cash dividend of 0.29 cents per share for the Q4 of 2026, which represents a 3.6% increase compared to the quarterly cash dividend paid in the Q4 of 2025.
Adam Satterfield: The results of this annual review impact both the salary, wages, and benefits, and the insurance and claims line items on our income statement. We were otherwise able to effectively manage our direct variable costs to be consistent with the prior year. OLD DOMINION's cash flow from operations totaled $310.2 million for the Q4 and $1.4 billion for the year, respectively, while capital expenditures were $45.7 million and $415 million for the same periods. We utilized $124.9 million and $730.3 million of cash for our share repurchase program during the Q4 and the year, respectively, while our cash dividends totaled $58.4 million and $235.6 million for the same periods. We were pleased that our board of directors approved a quarterly cash dividend of 0.29 cents per share for the Q4 of 2026, which represents a 3.6% increase compared to the quarterly cash dividend paid in the Q4 of 2025.
Speaker #4: Each year that are related to third party actuarial reviews our of injury and claims accident . The results of annual of this our annual review impact both the salary , wages and benefits and the insurance and claims line items on our income statement .
Speaker #4: We were otherwise able to effectively manage our direct variable costs to be consistent with the prior year . Dominion's Old cash flow from operations totaled $310.2 million for the fourth quarter , and $1.4 billion for the year , respectively , while capital expenditures were $45.7 million and $415 million for the same periods .
Speaker #4: We utilized $124.9 million and $730.3 million of cash for our share repurchase program during the fourth quarter and the year, respectively.
Speaker #4: While our cash dividends totaled $58.4 million in the period and $235.6 million for the same period, we were pleased that our board of directors approved a quarterly cash dividend of $0.29 per share for the first quarter of 2026, which represents a 3.6% increase compared to the quarterly cash dividend paid in the first quarter of 2025.
Adam Satterfield: Our effective tax rate for the Q4 of 2025 was 24.8% as compared to 21.5% in the Q4 of 2024. We currently expect our effective tax rate to be 25.0% for the Q4 of 2026. This concludes our prepared remarks this morning. Operator will be happy to open the floor for questions at this time.
Adam Satterfield: Our effective tax rate for the Q4 of 2025 was 24.8% as compared to 21.5% in the Q4 of 2024. We currently expect our effective tax rate to be 25.0% for the Q4 of 2026. This concludes our prepared remarks this morning. Operator will be happy to open the floor for questions at this time.
Speaker #4: Our tax rate for the fourth quarter of 2025 was 24.8%, as compared to 21.5% in the fourth quarter of 2020. We currently expect our effective tax rate to be 25.0% for the first quarter of 2026.
Operator: We will now begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, you may press * then 1 on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. To withdraw your question, please press * then 2. Again, please limit yourselves to one question. If you have additional questions, you may rejoin the queue. Our first question today is from Jordan Alliger with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Operator: We will now begin the question-and-answer session. To ask a question, you may press star then 1 on your telephone keypad. If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. To withdraw your question, please press star then two. Again, please limit yourselves to one question. If you have additional questions, you may rejoin the queue. Our first question today is from Jordan Alliger with Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead.
Speaker #4: prepared This concludes our morning . Operator we'll be happy to open the floor for questions at this time .
Speaker #1: We will now begin the question and answer session To . ask a question , you may press star , then one on your telephone keypad .
Speaker #1: If you are using a speakerphone, please pick up your handset before pressing the keys. To withdraw your question, please press star, then two.
Speaker #1: Again, please limit yourself to one question. If you have additional questions, you may rejoin the queue. Our first question today is from Jordan Alliger with Goldman Sachs.
Jordan Alliger: Yeah, hi. Good morning. I was wondering, might as well ask, can you provide some sort of thoughts and perspectives on both any indication on demand and what you're seeing and hearing from customers and thoughts around possible better tone to volume as we move through the year? And then maybe it's all in conjunction with that, your thoughts on seasonality as we go from Q4 to Q1 from margins. Thanks.
Jordan Alliger: Yeah, hi. Good morning. I was wondering, might as well ask, can you provide some sort of thoughts and perspectives on both any indication on demand and what you're seeing and hearing from customers and thoughts around possible better tone to volume as we move through the year? And then maybe it's all in conjunction with that, your thoughts on seasonality as we go from Q4 to Q1 from margins. Thanks.
Speaker #1: Please go ahead .
Speaker #5: Yeah . Hi . Good morning . I was wondering , I might as well ask , can provide some sort of you perspective thoughts and both ?
Speaker #5: Any indication on , on on demand and what you're seeing and hearing from customers and , and thoughts around , you know , possible better tone to volume as we move through the year .
Speaker #5: And then maybe it's all in conjunction with that. Your thoughts on seasonality as we go from Q4 to Q1, from margins?
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I'll just start with the demand and let someone I'm sure will probably get at that OR question. But I think we've seen some positive signs that we've been really pleased with, really, over the last couple of months that have been developing. And then the release this week of the ISM was certainly very positive to see and maybe as an indication of hopefully what things will be for the remainder of the year. Obviously, over time, we've seen that ISM. It's a leading indicator, and typically a couple of months after that inflects positive, we see volumes somewhat do the same. But just getting back to recent trends for what we've seen, the thing I've been most pleased with is the increase in weight per shipment.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I'll just start with the demand and let someone I'm sure will probably get at that OR question. But I think we've seen some positive signs that we've been really pleased with, really, over the last couple of months that have been developing. And then the release this week of the ISM was certainly very positive to see and maybe as an indication of hopefully what things will be for the remainder of the year. Obviously, over time, we've seen that ISM. It's a leading indicator, and typically a couple of months after that inflects positive, we see volumes somewhat do the same. But just getting back to recent trends for what we've seen, the thing I've been most pleased with is the increase in weight per shipment.
Speaker #5: Thanks .
Speaker #4: Yeah , I'll just start with the demand and let someone I'm sure we'll probably get at that or question , but yeah , I think we've seen some signs positive that we've been really pleased really over with the last couple of months that have been developing .
Speaker #4: And then the release this week of the ISM was certainly very interesting and positive, too—maybe as an indication, hopefully, of what things will be for the remainder of the year.
Speaker #4: And Tim, we've obviously overseen that ISM. It's a leading indicator and typically, a couple of months after that, it inflects positive.
Speaker #4: We see volumes somewhat do the same . But but back just getting to to recent trends for what seen , we've the thing most I've been pleased with is the increase in weight per shipment .
Adam Satterfield: I think we've talked for multiple quarters now when we've been trying to make the call on when is the demand environment going to finally turn. We've talked about looking at that weight per shipment, for example, as really the indicator within our business. So that really increased. We were down about 1,450lbs in kind of September, October timeframe. We saw that increase to 1,489lbs in November, which is above what our long-term seasonal increase would be for that month. And then we saw it increase further to 1,520lbs in December. Again, that was about a 2% increase. The 10-year average is about a 1% increase from November to December in weight. Saw it pretty much perform in January. We're right at 1,492lbs, so a little bit of a decrease, but that was right in line with seasonality.
Adam Satterfield: I think we've talked for multiple quarters now when we've been trying to make the call on when is the demand environment going to finally turn. We've talked about looking at that weight per shipment, for example, as really the indicator within our business. So that really increased. We were down about 1,450lbs in kind of September, October timeframe. We saw that increase to 1,489lbs in November, which is above what our long-term seasonal increase would be for that month. And then we saw it increase further to 1,520lbs in December. Again, that was about a 2% increase. The 10-year average is about a 1% increase from November to December in weight. Saw it pretty much perform in January. We're right at 1,492lbs, so a little bit of a decrease, but that was right in line with seasonality.
Speaker #4: And I think we've talked for multiple quarters now when we've been to make the trying to call on when is the demand environment going to turn finally ?
Speaker #4: We've talked about looking at that wait for shipment , for example , as really the indicator within our business . So , you know , that really increased .
Speaker #4: We were down about ÂŁ1,450 in the kind of September-October time frame. We saw that increase to ÂŁ1,489 in November, which is above what our long-term seasonal increase would be for that month.
Speaker #4: And then we saw an increase further to December ÂŁ1,420 in . Again , that was about a 2% increase . The ten year average is about a 1% increase from November to December .
Speaker #4: In wait . So it pretty much performed in January . We're right at ÂŁ1,492 , so a little bit of a decrease . But that was right in line with seasonality .
Adam Satterfield: And I think somewhat impacted by a little disruption we had to our operations the last week of the month. We'd actually been trending higher than that as we progressed through the month. So really good to see when looking at just tons per day, the weight per shipment, all those factors leading into the start of this new year and hopefully finally seeing the turn that we've been predicting for the last couple of years take shape.
Adam Satterfield: And I think somewhat impacted by a little disruption we had to our operations the last week of the month. We'd actually been trending higher than that as we progressed through the month. So really good to see when looking at just tons per day, the weight per shipment, all those factors leading into the start of this new year and hopefully finally seeing the turn that we've been predicting for the last couple of years take shape.
Speaker #4: And and I think somewhat impacted by a disruption . We had little to our operations . The last week of the actually been month , we'd trending higher than that as we progressed through the month .
Speaker #4: So yeah , really good to see , you know , when looking at just tonnage per day , the weight per shipment , all those factors .
Speaker #4: Leading into the start of this new year—and hopefully, finally, the turn that we've been predicting for the last couple of years—take.
Jordan Alliger: Thank you.
Jordan Alliger: Thank you.
Operator: The next question is from Chris Wetherbee with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Chris Wetherbee with Wells Fargo. Please go ahead.
Speaker #5: Thank .
Chris Wetherbee: Yeah. Hey, thanks. Good morning, guys. Maybe I'll just pick up on that and ask about the Q1 kind of sequential from an Operating Ratio perspective and maybe any thoughts you have on Revenue per day for the Q1 as well.
Chris Wetherbee: Yeah. Hey, thanks. Good morning, guys. Maybe I'll just pick up on that and ask about the Q1 kind of sequential from an Operating Ratio perspective and maybe any thoughts you have on Revenue per day for the Q1 as well.
Speaker #1: The next
Speaker #1: question is from Chris you Wetherbee with Wells Fargo . go Please ahead . Yeah .
Speaker #6: Good morning guys . Hey , thanks . Maybe I'll just that pick up on about and ask Kind of quarter . the first sequential from an operating ratio maybe perspective .
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, obviously, the revenue per day is going to lead right into it. And given the data that we just discussed for January, we're starting out a little bit behind seasonality again on a revenue per day standpoint. I feel like we'll close that gap. We've seen good performances early, but probably a little catch-up in business this week where we had the weather disruptions last week. So I think that'll normalize. But hopefully, we can close the gap with seasonality as we progress through the remaining months of the quarter. Just from a big picture top-line standpoint, I feel like our revenue for the full quarter will probably come in somewhere between $1.25 and 1.3 billion. The low end of that range would be if we underperform seasonality at a rate similar to what we just did in the Q4, and then the top end would be normal seasonality.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, obviously, the revenue per day is going to lead right into it. And given the data that we just discussed for January, we're starting out a little bit behind seasonality again on a revenue per day standpoint. I feel like we'll close that gap. We've seen good performances early, but probably a little catch-up in business this week where we had the weather disruptions last week. So I think that'll normalize. But hopefully, we can close the gap with seasonality as we progress through the remaining months of the quarter. Just from a big picture top-line standpoint, I feel like our revenue for the full quarter will probably come in somewhere between $1.25 and 1.3 billion. The low end of that range would be if we underperform seasonality at a rate similar to what we just did in the Q4, and then the top end would be normal seasonality.
Speaker #6: any thoughts on you have And revenue per day for the well first quarter as ?
Speaker #4: Yeah , obviously the is revenue going to lead right into it . And per day you know , given the data that we just discussed for January , we're starting out a little bit behind seasonality .
Speaker #4: Again , revenue on a per day standpoint , I feel like we'll close that gap . We've seen , you know , good performances early , but probably a little catch up in business this week that , you know , where we had the weather disruptions last week .
Speaker #4: So I think that'll normalize. But hopefully we can close the gap with seasonality as we progress through the remaining months of the quarter.
Speaker #4: from a big Just picture , top line standpoint , like I feel our revenue for the full quarter will probably come somewhere in between 1.25 and 1.3 billion .
Speaker #4: The low end of the range would be if we underperformed seasonality at a rate similar to what we just did in the fourth quarter.
Adam Satterfield: And if you take normal seasonality from January through February to March, that would put us kind of right there in the middle. So we'll see how that continues to take shape. And obviously, we give our mid-quarter updates that'll allow for tracking. So with that said, the 10-year average change in the operating ratio is an increase of 100 to 150 basis points from Q4 to Q1. And I think we can get to the top end of that range. So I would say an increase of 150 basis points is probably the target, and then maybe ±20 basis points to continue to allow for some of that revenue uncertainty.
Adam Satterfield: And if you take normal seasonality from January through February to March, that would put us kind of right there in the middle. So we'll see how that continues to take shape. And obviously, we give our mid-quarter updates that'll allow for tracking. So with that said, the 10-year average change in the operating ratio is an increase of 100 to 150 basis points from Q4 to Q1. And I think we can get to the top end of that range. So I would say an increase of 150 basis points is probably the target, and then maybe ±20 basis points to continue to allow for some of that revenue uncertainty.
Speaker #4: then And the top end would be normal seasonality . And if you take normal seasonality from January through the , you know , through February to March , that would put right there us kind of in the middle .
Speaker #4: you we'll see how know , that continues to take shape . So , And give obviously , we our Mid-quarter updates that will allow for for tracking .
Speaker #4: So with that said , you know , the ten year average change in the ratio is operating an increase of points from the quarter to fourth the first .
Speaker #4: So with that said , you know , the ten year average change in the ratio is operating an increase of points from the quarter to fourth 100 to 150 basis And I think we can get to the top end of that range .
Speaker #4: So I would say an increase of 150 basis points is target . probably the And then maybe a plus -20 basis points to continue to allow that revenue uncertainty .
Operator: The next question is from Scott Group with Wolfe Research. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Scott Group with Wolfe Research. Please go ahead.
Scott Group: Hey, thanks. Morning. So Adam, wanted to just you talked about the weight per shipment improving. Can you have a do you have a sense of what's driving that? Are we starting to see some of the truckload stuff spill back? Is it just underlying industrial getting better? And then maybe just help us I know that the yield trends decelerate a little bit into Q4 and maybe starting in Q1, but is that just the weight getting better, or is any thoughts on just how to think about yield trends as we're going from here? Thank you.
Scott Group: Hey, thanks. Morning. So Adam, wanted to just you talked about the weight per shipment improving. Can you have a do you have a sense of what's driving that? Are we starting to see some of the truckload stuff spill back? Is it just underlying industrial getting better? And then maybe just help us I know that the yield trends decelerate a little bit into Q4 and maybe starting in Q1, but is that just the weight getting better, or is any thoughts on just how to think about yield trends as we're going from here? Thank you.
Speaker #1: The next question is from Scott Group Wolfe Research . Please go ahead .
Speaker #7: Hey , thanks Morning . . So , Adam wanted to just you talked about the paper shipment improving . Can you have a do you have a sense of of what's driving that ?
Speaker #7: it are Is starting to see some of we the truckload stuff back ? spill Is it just underlying getting industrial , and then maybe better just help us ?
Speaker #7: know I that the yield trends decelerate a little bit into Q4 and maybe starting in Q1 , but is that just the weight getting better or , you any thoughts on just , you know , how to think about yield trends as we're going from here ?
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think the weight is probably coming from all the above. Looking at our contract customers, weight's up a little bit. Our smaller mom-and-pop customers, which actually we saw a little bit more growth out of or better performance, I shouldn't say growth, in the Q4, weight per shipment was up as well. And so I think that exactly what you said, as the truckload market is changing we've talked a lot about the spillover effect and how that's impacted volumes over the last couple of years. I think we're probably in the early innings of some of that starting to normalize. I don't know that we're completely there yet, but just given how there's some supply rationalization there, it certainly feels like that is beginning to happen. And the weight certainly will put a little bit of pressure on our yield metrics.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think the weight is probably coming from all the above. Looking at our contract customers, weight's up a little bit. Our smaller mom-and-pop customers, which actually we saw a little bit more growth out of or better performance, I shouldn't say growth, in the Q4, weight per shipment was up as well. And so I think that exactly what you said, as the truckload market is changing we've talked a lot about the spillover effect and how that's impacted volumes over the last couple of years. I think we're probably in the early innings of some of that starting to normalize. I don't know that we're completely there yet, but just given how there's some supply rationalization there, it certainly feels like that is beginning to happen. And the weight certainly will put a little bit of pressure on our yield metrics.
Speaker #7: Thank you .
Speaker #4: Yeah. The weight is probably coming from all of the above. You know, looking at our contract customers, little weights are up a bit.
Speaker #4: smaller mom and Our pop customers , which actually we saw a little bit more growth out of or better performance . I shouldn't say growth in the Wait for fourth quarter .
Speaker #4: shipment was up as well . And so I think that exactly what you as said the truckload market changing , is we've talked you know , a lot about the spillover effect and how that's impacted the last volumes couple of over years .
Speaker #4: I think we're probably in the You know , early innings of starting to of that some normalize . I don't that we're know that completely there yet .
Speaker #4: But given how there's just some supply rationalization there, it certainly feels like that is beginning to happen. And the, and certainly weight will put a little bit of pressure on yield metrics.
Adam Satterfield: But our guidance for revenue per hundredweight for the Q4 was to be up 5%, and that would have been normal seasonality. So we came in right at 4.9%. Normal seasonality for the first quarter would be about 4.5% increase on a year-over-year basis. I feel like we've probably got at least a 50 basis point headwind, it looks like, right now with the change in weight per shipment. So that's actually a good thing. And January kind of came in right at about that 4% threshold. So that's about what I would expect unless we see further increases in the weight that may put pressure on that revenue per hundredweight metric. But the reality is that's what we're hoping to see.
Adam Satterfield: But our guidance for revenue per hundredweight for the Q4 was to be up 5%, and that would have been normal seasonality. So we came in right at 4.9%. Normal seasonality for the first quarter would be about 4.5% increase on a year-over-year basis. I feel like we've probably got at least a 50 basis point headwind, it looks like, right now with the change in weight per shipment. So that's actually a good thing. And January kind of came in right at about that 4% threshold. So that's about what I would expect unless we see further increases in the weight that may put pressure on that revenue per hundredweight metric. But the reality is that's what we're hoping to see.
Speaker #4: But on our , you know , our guidance for revenue per hundredweight for the to be quarter was up 5% . And that would have been normal seasonality .
Speaker #4: So we came in right at fourth, 4.9% normal seasonality for the first quarter. Would be about a 4.5% increase on a year-over-year basis.
Speaker #4: I feel like we've probably got least a 50 basis headwind . point It looks now like right with the change in weight per shipment .
Speaker #4: So that's actually a good thing in , you know , January kind of came in right at about that 4% threshold . So that's about what I would expect .
Speaker #4: Unless we see further increases in the weight, that may put that pressure on the revenue per hundredweight metric. But the reality is that's what we're hoping to see.
Adam Satterfield: We want to continue to see that weight per shipment going up because the thing that's being missed when we talk about revenue per hundredweight is, what's the revenue per shipment? And that will continue to go up as the weight increases. And that's going to be ultimately what we're looking at for success, how are we managing our revenue per shipment and our cost per shipment? And obviously, the last couple of years, the operating ratio has gone the other way because we've had more cost than revenue there on a per-shipment basis. So if that weight continues to go up, that's going to help us continue to build density in our network.
Adam Satterfield: We want to continue to see that weight per shipment going up because the thing that's being missed when we talk about revenue per hundredweight is, what's the revenue per shipment? And that will continue to go up as the weight increases. And that's going to be ultimately what we're looking at for success, how are we managing our revenue per shipment and our cost per shipment? And obviously, the last couple of years, the operating ratio has gone the other way because we've had more cost than revenue there on a per-shipment basis. So if that weight continues to go up, that's going to help us continue to build density in our network.
Speaker #4: We want to continue to see that weight per shipment going up . Because the thing that's being missed talk about revenue per is when we hundredweight what's the revenue per shipment ?
Speaker #4: And that will continue to go up as the weight increases . And that's going to be ultimately what we're looking at for success .
Speaker #4: How are managing our revenue per shipment . And our cost per shipment . And you know , we've the last we obviously couple of years , the operating ratio has gone the other way because we've cost than revenue .
Adam Satterfield: It's going to allow for us to have more true yield on a per-shipment basis and hopefully allow us to turn the corner and get right back to produce an improvement in our operating ratio and long-term profitable growth.
Adam Satterfield: It's going to allow for us to have more true yield on a per-shipment basis and hopefully allow us to turn the corner and get right back to produce an improvement in our operating ratio and long-term profitable growth.
Speaker #4: There on a per shipment basis . So is that weight continues to go up . That's going to continue to build density in our It's going to allow for us to have more true yield on a per shipment basis .
Speaker #4: And hopefully allow us to to turn the and corner get right back to to produce and improvement in our operating ratio and long term profitable growth .
Scott Group: Thank you, guys.
Scott Group: Thank you, guys.
Adam Satterfield: Thanks, Scott.
Adam Satterfield: Thanks, Scott.
Operator: The next question is from Ravi Shanker with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Ravi Shanker with Morgan Stanley. Please go ahead.
Ravi Shanker: Good morning, everyone. So maybe just a bit of a color question here. I think you and your peers have spoken of some level of share shift away from LTL to TL in the down cycle, and you've expected that to come back when the market tightens up. I mean, now that TL rates have been pretty tight for a couple of months, are you starting to see that come back, or what do you think is the cadence of that coming back through the cycle? Thank you.
Ravi Shanker: Good morning, everyone. So maybe just a bit of a color question here. I think you and your peers have spoken of some level of share shift away from LTL to TL in the down cycle, and you've expected that to come back when the market tightens up. I mean, now that TL rates have been pretty tight for a couple of months, are you starting to see that come back, or what do you think is the cadence of that coming back through the cycle? Thank you.
Speaker #7: Thank you guys .
Speaker #4: Thanks , Scott .
Speaker #1: next The question is from Ravi Shanker with Morgan Stanley . Please ahead .
Speaker #1: go
Speaker #8: Good morning everyone .
Speaker #8: Just—so maybe a bit of a color question here. I think you and your peers have spoken of some level of share shift away from LTL to TL in the down cycle, and you've expected that to come back when the market tightens up.
Speaker #8: I mean, now that TL pretty rates have been tight for a couple of months, are you starting to see that come back, or what do you think is the cadence of that coming back to the cycle?
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think that it's a natural sort of change that happens. I think that when you look at that truckload environment and a lot of those carriers are barely breaking even or worse, we've seen some capacity rationalization, if you will, in that environment. I think that's changed the pricing environment there. So hopefully, we'll continue to see those trends change at a time where it feels like overall industrial demand is ready to start showing some signs of improvement again. Again, we say we're cautiously optimistic about all this because we had improvement in the ISM last year at about this same time. Then we had the event in April that threw cold water on everything. So we're in a great spot to continue to handle any business that comes our way. We've got more capacity than we've ever had in our network.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think that it's a natural sort of change that happens. I think that when you look at that truckload environment and a lot of those carriers are barely breaking even or worse, we've seen some capacity rationalization, if you will, in that environment. I think that's changed the pricing environment there. So hopefully, we'll continue to see those trends change at a time where it feels like overall industrial demand is ready to start showing some signs of improvement again. Again, we say we're cautiously optimistic about all this because we had improvement in the ISM last year at about this same time. Then we had the event in April that threw cold water on everything. So we're in a great spot to continue to handle any business that comes our way. We've got more capacity than we've ever had in our network.
Speaker #8: Thank you .
Speaker #4: Yeah , I think that , you know , it's a natural sort of change that happens . I think that when you look at that truckload environment and a lot of those carriers are barely breaking even or worse , we've seen some capacity rationalization , if you will , in that environment .
Speaker #4: And I think that's changed the the pricing environment there . And , and so hopefully we'll continue to see those trends change at a time where it feels like overall industrial demand is ready to start showing some signs of improvement again .
Speaker #4: And , you know , again , we're we say cautiously optimistic about all this because we had improvement in ISM the last year at about the same time .
Speaker #4: And , then we had the event in April that threw cold water on everything . So , we're in a you know , great spot to continue to handle any business that comes our way .
Adam Satterfield: We've got capacity with our equipment and capacity with our people. So we can respond to the inflection as it happens. And I think that's what has differentiated us from our competitors in the past. The ability to be able to take on significant volume growth in the early innings of the cycle is when we've gained the most market share in the past. And that's certainly what we're going to look to as this cycle eventually inflects back to the positive.
Adam Satterfield: We've got capacity with our equipment and capacity with our people. So we can respond to the inflection as it happens. And I think that's what has differentiated us from our competitors in the past. The ability to be able to take on significant volume growth in the early innings of the cycle is when we've gained the most market share in the past. And that's certainly what we're going to look to as this cycle eventually inflects back to the positive.
Speaker #4: You know , we've got more capacity than we've ever had in our network . We've got capacity with our equipment and capacity with our people .
Speaker #4: So we can respond to the inflection as it happens. And I think that's what has differentiated us from our competitors in the past.
Speaker #4: The competitor's ability to be able to take on significant volume growth in the early innings of the cycle is when we've gained the most market share in the past, and that's certainly what we're going to look to as this cycle.
Ravi Shanker: Understood. Thank you.
Ravi Shanker: Understood. Thank you.
Operator: The next question is from Ken Hoexter with Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Ken Hoexter with Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Speaker #4: Eventually inflects back to the positive .
Chris Wetherbee: Hey, great. Good morning. Adam, maybe just to follow on that, or Marty, your thoughts on headcount down 6%, shipments down almost 10%. So we're seeing a bit of a decoupling. Is there more opportunity as you think about the cost cycle, or is that more being prepared, as you just mentioned, to capture that? And similar to CapEx, seems like you're aging the fleet a little bit as you reduced it from what I don't know, down to $415 million this year, down another to $265 million next year. So now, is there a cost impact on maintenance and the like? So maybe just it's a cost issue, but maybe you're talking about being more prepared for the upside. Thanks.
Operator: Hey, great. Good morning. Adam, maybe just to follow on that, or Marty, your thoughts on headcount down 6%, shipments down almost 10%. So we're seeing a bit of a decoupling. Is there more opportunity as you think about the cost cycle, or is that more being prepared, as you just mentioned, to capture that? And similar to CapEx, seems like you're aging the fleet a little bit as you reduced it from what I don't know, down to $415 million this year, down another to $265 million next year. So now, is there a cost impact on maintenance and the like? So maybe just it's a cost issue, but maybe you're talking about being more prepared for the upside. Thanks.
Speaker #8: Understood . Thank you .
Speaker #1: The next question is Hoexter with Bank from Ken of Please go America . ahead .
Speaker #9: Hey , great . Good morning . Adam . Maybe just a follow on that or Marty , your thoughts on on headcount down 6% , shipments down almost 10% .
Speaker #9: So we're seeing a bit of a decoupling . Is there more opportunity as you think about the more cycle or is that cost being prepared as you just to to mentioned , capture that .
Speaker #9: similar And to CapEx , seems like you're aging the fleet a little bit as you you reduced it from what , down to to 415 million this year , down another to 265 million next year .
Speaker #9: So now is there a cost impact on on maintenance and the like . So maybe just it's a cost issue . But but maybe you're talking about being more prepared for the upside .
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, we're definitely prepared for the up cycle. The average age of our fleet actually improved this past year. It's now down to an average of 3.9 years for our tractor fleet. That's about where we like it, somewhere around four years. We've been below that before, and we've let it age up a little bit. But really pleased with our operations team as they've continued to try to right-size the fleet to make sure we've got all the equipment in the places we need, but also managing through our cost inflation from a repairs and maintenance standpoint. When we went through, go back to 2022, 2023, we had cost per mile inflation that was more in the 10% to 20% type of range for each of those years. We've been sort of flattish, just some mild increases, if you will, over the last couple of years.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, we're definitely prepared for the up cycle. The average age of our fleet actually improved this past year. It's now down to an average of 3.9 years for our tractor fleet. That's about where we like it, somewhere around four years. We've been below that before, and we've let it age up a little bit. But really pleased with our operations team as they've continued to try to right-size the fleet to make sure we've got all the equipment in the places we need, but also managing through our cost inflation from a repairs and maintenance standpoint. When we went through, go back to 2022, 2023, we had cost per mile inflation that was more in the 10% to 20% type of range for each of those years. We've been sort of flattish, just some mild increases, if you will, over the last couple of years.
Speaker #9: Thanks .
Speaker #4: Yeah we're definitely prepared for the up cycle . The average age of our fleet actually improved this past year . It's now down to an average of 3.9 years for our tractor fleet , and that's about where we like it .
Speaker #4: Somewhere around four years , we've been below that before . And you know , we've we've let up a little bit . But , you know , really pleased with our operations team as they've continued to try to rightsize the fleet to make sure we've got all the equipment , the places we need .
Speaker #4: But through managing our also cost inflation from a repairs and maintenance standpoint . You know , when we went through . back Go to 2022 , had 2023 , we cost per mile inflation .
Speaker #4: That was more in the 10 to 20% type of range for each of those years . And and we've been sort of flattish , just some some mild increases , if you will , over the last couple of years .
Adam Satterfield: And I think that's a reflection of the management team's efforts in that area and continuing to right-size. But from an employee count standpoint, I think we continue to manage through. And at the local level, our service center managers are making sure they've got the right amount of people and have got the ability to flex hours up to meet the increased demand from our customers. So we're in great shape there. We'd anticipated that we would see a little attrition through the Q4. That's about what we saw happen. And so the overall headcount drifted down a little bit throughout the Q4 as we somewhat expected. So I think that'll likely be stabilized here. And when you look over the long term, the change in headcount and the change in shipments really kind of match with one another.
Adam Satterfield: And I think that's a reflection of the management team's efforts in that area and continuing to right-size. But from an employee count standpoint, I think we continue to manage through. And at the local level, our service center managers are making sure they've got the right amount of people and have got the ability to flex hours up to meet the increased demand from our customers. So we're in great shape there. We'd anticipated that we would see a little attrition through the Q4. That's about what we saw happen. And so the overall headcount drifted down a little bit throughout the Q4 as we somewhat expected. So I think that'll likely be stabilized here. And when you look over the long term, the change in headcount and the change in shipments really kind of match with one another.
Speaker #4: And I think that's a reflection the management of team's efforts in that area . And continuing to to right size . But from a an employee count standpoint , I think we continue to to manage through and , you know , at the local level or service center managers are making sure they've got the right amount of people and , and have got the ability to flex hours up to meet the increased demand from our customers .
Speaker #4: So yeah, we're in great shape there. We'd anticipated that we would see a little attrition through the fourth quarter. That's about what we saw happen.
Speaker #4: So, down a the headcount overall a little bit throughout the fourth quarter, as we somewhat expected. So, I think, you know, that'll be stabilized here.
Speaker #4: And when you look over the long term , the change in headcount , the change in shipments really kind of match with with one another .
Adam Satterfield: But what we'd expect to see is when we get into the early phase of this recovery, the number of hours worked by employee will increase on a per-employee basis. We'll be able to step those hours up to meet the increased volume needs as they come. And so you should eventually see the volume growth that's leading any growth in headcount before those two numbers kind of converge again.
Adam Satterfield: But what we'd expect to see is when we get into the early phase of this recovery, the number of hours worked by employee will increase on a per-employee basis. We'll be able to step those hours up to meet the increased volume needs as they come. And so you should eventually see the volume growth that's leading any growth in headcount before those two numbers kind of converge again.
Speaker #4: But what we'd expect to see is when we get early phase of this recovery , the number of into the hours worked employee will increase on a per employee basis .
Speaker #4: We'll be able to step those hours up to meet the increased volume needs as they come. And so you should eventually see the volume growth that's leading any growth in headcount before those two numbers kind of converge again.
Operator: Thanks, Adam. The next question is from Reed Seay with Stephens. Please go ahead.
Adam Satterfield: Thanks, Adam.
Operator: The next question is from Reed Seay with Stephens. Please go ahead.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. In the release, you pointed to a pretty low CapEx number relative to what you expected last year coming into 2025 and kind of what you've done historically. Can you talk about maybe what's driving that lower CapEx expense this year and those expectations behind that guidance?
Reed Seay: Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. In the release, you pointed to a pretty low CapEx number relative to what you expected last year coming into 2025 and kind of what you've done historically. Can you talk about maybe what's driving that lower CapEx expense this year and those expectations behind that guidance?
Speaker #9: John Thanks , .
Speaker #1: The next question is from Reed, CA with Stephens. Please go ahead.
Speaker #10: Hey guys . Thanks for taking my question in the release . You pointed to pretty low CapEx number relative to you expected what Coming last year .
Speaker #10: into 2025 and kind of what you've done historically . Can you talk about maybe what's driving that lower CapEx expense this year and those expectations behind that guidance ?
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, it's just a function, really, of what the volume environment has been for the last couple, three years. We've continued to run our CapEx plan. That, too, is something that I think has differentiated us over time from our industry. In fact, we've spent about $2 billion in capital expenditures over the last three years. The volume environment, obviously, has not been robust. But I think we're in a really good spot when you sort of go down the elements of spend from a service center standpoint. We've got some projects that are in flight, and that's a lot of the spend that we've got this year. We've got a little over 35% capacity in our service center network. We're handling a little over 40,000 shipments per day right now. Our network is built to handle more like 55,000 or even more.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, it's just a function, really, of what the volume environment has been for the last couple, three years. We've continued to run our CapEx plan. That, too, is something that I think has differentiated us over time from our industry. In fact, we've spent about $2 billion in capital expenditures over the last three years. The volume environment, obviously, has not been robust. But I think we're in a really good spot when you sort of go down the elements of spend from a service center standpoint. We've got some projects that are in flight, and that's a lot of the spend that we've got this year. We've got a little over 35% capacity in our service center network. We're handling a little over 40,000 shipments per day right now. Our network is built to handle more like 55,000 or even more.
Speaker #4: Yeah , it's just a function really of of what the volume environment has been for the couple three years . And , you know , we've continued to to run our CapEx plan and that too is something that I think is differentiated us over time from our industry .
Speaker #4: we've In fact , spent about $2 billion in capital expenditures over the last three years . You know , in the volume environment , obviously has not been robust , but I think we're in a really good spot when you sort of go down the elements of spend from a service center standpoint , we've got some projects that are in flight , and lot of the that's a spend that that we've got year , but we've got a little over in our 35% capacity service network .
Speaker #4: center You know , we're we're handling a little over 40,000 shipments per day right now . And and our network is built to handle more 55,000 or like even more .
Adam Satterfield: We've done more in certain months back in 2021 and 2022. So we've got a lot of flex there to be able to grow. And the same thing with the fleet. Just like I mentioned earlier, we've continued to right-size the fleet, if you will, and take some of the older units out. But we've got some that continue to need to be replaced. And that's the majority of what's in the spend there in that category for this year. So it is lower as a percent of revenue than our typical range being 10% to 15%. But that's really just a function of the consistent investment that we've made over the past three years and kind of where we stand now and just wanting the business to grow into the network that we've got built. And when that starts happening, you think about our fixed cost.
Adam Satterfield: We've done more in certain months back in 2021 and 2022. So we've got a lot of flex there to be able to grow. And the same thing with the fleet. Just like I mentioned earlier, we've continued to right-size the fleet, if you will, and take some of the older units out. But we've got some that continue to need to be replaced. And that's the majority of what's in the spend there in that category for this year. So it is lower as a percent of revenue than our typical range being 10% to 15%. But that's really just a function of the consistent investment that we've made over the past three years and kind of where we stand now and just wanting the business to grow into the network that we've got built. And when that starts happening, you think about our fixed cost.
Speaker #4: We've done more , you know , in months certain . Back in 21 and 22 . So , you know , we've we've got a lot of flex there to , to be to , to able grow and , and the same thing with the fleet , just like I mentioned earlier , we've continued to , to right size .
Speaker #4: The fleet , if you will , and take some of the older units out . But we've we've got some that continue to need to be replaced .
Speaker #4: and that's And , the majority of what's in the spend up there in that category for this year . So it is lower than as a percent of revenue than our typical range being 10 to 15% .
Speaker #4: But that's really just a function of the consistent investment that we've made over the past three years. And where we kind of stand now, and just the wanting business to grow into the network that we've built.
Adam Satterfield: And Marty alluded to this in his comments. Our overhead cost, if you go back to that 2022 period, they're up 450 to 500 basis points. And that's really the difference in that record operating ratio then versus what we just completed in 2025. But once we start getting leverage on all these assets that we've put in place, that overhead cost as a percent of revenue can swing back very, very quickly. And the density will allow us to further improve our direct cost as a percent of revenue as well. So that's what gives us the confidence that when we start seeing growth coming back in our business, that we can get our operating ratio going back to that 70 type of threshold and beyond.
Adam Satterfield: And Marty alluded to this in his comments. Our overhead cost, if you go back to that 2022 period, they're up 450 to 500 basis points. And that's really the difference in that record operating ratio then versus what we just completed in 2025. But once we start getting leverage on all these assets that we've put in place, that overhead cost as a percent of revenue can swing back very, very quickly. And the density will allow us to further improve our direct cost as a percent of revenue as well. So that's what gives us the confidence that when we start seeing growth coming back in our business, that we can get our operating ratio going back to that 70 type of threshold and beyond.
Speaker #4: And , you know , when that starts happening , you think about our fixed cost . And Marty alluded to this and his comments , you know , our overhead cost , if you go back to to that 2022 period , you know , up 450 500 basis points .
Speaker #4: And that's really the difference in that record operating ratio . Then versus what we just in 2025 . But once we start getting leverage on all these assets that we've put in place , you know , that that overhead cost as a percent of revenue can swing back very , very quickly .
Speaker #4: And the density will allow us to further improve our direct cost as a percent of revenue as well . So , that's what gives us the confidence that when we start coming back in our can get operating seeing growth ratio our going back business , that we to to that 70 type of threshold and beyond .
[Analyst] (Stephens): Got it. Thank you, Adam.
Reed Seay: Got it. Thank you, Adam.
Operator: The next question is from Jason Seidl with TD Cowen. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Jason Seidl with TD Cowen. Please go ahead.
Jason Seidl: Thank you, Operator. Morning, Marty, Adam, and Jack. I want to go back on sort of your employee headcount numbers as well as how should we think about driver pay and dockworker pay as we move throughout the year if some of your cautious optimism comes true and we start seeing a rebound? Do we expect that number to go up a little bit as we move throughout the year?
Jason Seidl: Thank you, Operator. Morning, Marty, Adam, and Jack. I want to go back on sort of your employee headcount numbers as well as how should we think about driver pay and dockworker pay as we move throughout the year if some of your cautious optimism comes true and we start seeing a rebound? Do we expect that number to go up a little bit as we move throughout the year?
Speaker #10: Thank you, Adam. It—
Speaker #1: next The question is from Jason Seidl with TD Cowen . Please go ahead .
Speaker #11: Thank you . Operator . Morning , Marty . Adam and Jack , I want to go back on sort of your employee headcount numbers , as well as how should we think about driver pay and dockworker pay as we move throughout the year ?
Speaker #11: If some of your cautious optimism comes true when we start seeing a rebound, do we expect that number to go up a little bit as we move throughout the year?
Adam Satterfield: Well, Jason, we always give an increase to our employees. When we operate at a 75, we're in the fortunate position to continue to reward our employees first. From a stakeholder standpoint, we prioritize our employees, and we want to make sure they're rewarded and continue to be motivated to take care of our customers. When you give 99% on-time service and a cargo claims ratio that's below 0.1%, I think our employees have certainly delivered. So we continue to give healthy raises. We did so on 1 September 2024. We also made improvements to our benefit plan cost or the benefits to employees, which have increased those costs. We'd expect to continue to see our fringe benefit costs as a percent of salaries and wages increase.
Adam Satterfield: Well, Jason, we always give an increase to our employees. When we operate at a 75, we're in the fortunate position to continue to reward our employees first. From a stakeholder standpoint, we prioritize our employees, and we want to make sure they're rewarded and continue to be motivated to take care of our customers. When you give 99% on-time service and a cargo claims ratio that's below 0.1%, I think our employees have certainly delivered. So we continue to give healthy raises. We did so on 1 September 2024. We also made improvements to our benefit plan cost or the benefits to employees, which have increased those costs. We'd expect to continue to see our fringe benefit costs as a percent of salaries and wages increase.
Speaker #4: Well, you know, Jason, we always give an increase to our employees. And when operating at a 75, we're in the fortunate position to continue to reward our employees first.
Speaker #4: And you know we from a stakeholder standpoint , we prioritize our employees . And we want to make they're they're sure rewarded . And continue to motivated to take be care of our customers .
Speaker #4: And when you 99% on time service and cargo claims ratio , a that's give our employees have So , you know , delivered .
Speaker #4: we certainly continue to to give healthy raises . We did in the 1st of September this year . We also made improvements to our benefit .
Speaker #4: Plan cost and or the benefits to increased those employees , which costs . And we'd expect to have see continue to our fringe benefit cost as a percent salaries and of wages increase , and those finished the about 42% of wages salaries and year at in 25 and or at least in the fourth quarter .
Adam Satterfield: Those finish the year at about 42% of salaries and wages in 2025 or at least in the Q4. But we expect that we'll have a little bit of headwind there on those benefit costs, probably be somewhere in the 41% of salaries and wages in 2026. And then the final piece is the 401(k) match that we make. And I think that's what ties everything in together. And we give a discretionary match every year that's up to 10% of our company's net income. So we continue to put a lot of dollars into our employees' 401(k) plans to help them and their families prepare for retirement.
Adam Satterfield: Those finish the year at about 42% of salaries and wages in 2025 or at least in the Q4. But we expect that we'll have a little bit of headwind there on those benefit costs, probably be somewhere in the 41% of salaries and wages in 2026. And then the final piece is the 401(k) match that we make. And I think that's what ties everything in together. And we give a discretionary match every year that's up to 10% of our company's net income. So we continue to put a lot of dollars into our employees' 401(k) plans to help them and their families prepare for retirement.
Speaker #4: but we expect that we'll have a And of on those headwind there probably benefit costs be somewhere in the 41% of wages and .
Speaker #4: And in salaries 2026 . So and then the the final piece is the 401 K match that we And I think that's what , ties what make .
Speaker #4: Everything in together. And you know, we give a match every discretionary year. That's up to 10% of our company's net income.
Speaker #4: So we continue to put a lot of dollars into our 401(k) plans to help our employees and their families prepare for retirement.
Jason Seidl: That's great color. Should we expect the next sort of raise to be next or this September, or do you think it'll be sooner than that?
Jason Seidl: That's great color. Should we expect the next sort of raise to be next or this September, or do you think it'll be sooner than that?
Adam Satterfield: No, September is usually the timing of our regulations.
Adam Satterfield: No, September is usually the timing of our regulations.
Speaker #11: That's great color. Should we expect the next sort of raise to be next or this September? Or do you think it will be sooner than that?
Jason Seidl: Okay. Fair enough. Appreciate the time.
Jason Seidl: Okay. Fair enough. Appreciate the time.
Speaker #4: No , it's a September . Is usually the timing of our relations .
Operator: The next question is from Jonathan Chappell with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Jonathan Chappell with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.
Speaker #11: Fair. Okay, time. Appreciate that.
Speaker #11: enough .
Jonathan Chappell: Thank you. Good morning. Adam, after two years of speaking to subseasonality, it seems like a little bit more cautiously optimistic, as you said. And you laid out a first quarter where the middle of the range is February and March are in line with seasonality. A lot of your peers, even though they haven't reported yet, are talking to a peg of like, "If we do X in volume this year or tonnage, that leads to Y in OR." If you took that February, March midpoint of Q1 and rolled seasonality going forward, where would that put your tonnage on a year-over-year basis? And by association, where would that put your OR improvement for this year?
Jonathan Chappell: Thank you. Good morning. Adam, after two years of speaking to subseasonality, it seems like a little bit more cautiously optimistic, as you said. And you laid out a first quarter where the middle of the range is February and March are in line with seasonality. A lot of your peers, even though they haven't reported yet, are talking to a peg of like, "If we do X in volume this year or tonnage, that leads to Y in OR." If you took that February, March midpoint of Q1 and rolled seasonality going forward, where would that put your tonnage on a year-over-year basis? And by association, where would that put your OR improvement for this year?
Speaker #1: Next question is from Jonathan Chappell with Evercore ISI. Please go ahead.
Speaker #12: Thank you . Good morning . Adam , after two years of speaking to seasonality , it like a seems more little bit cautiously As you said , optimistic .
Speaker #12: and you laid out a first quarter where the middle of the range is February and March are line with in seasonality . A lot of your peers , even though they haven't reported yet , are talking to a peg of like , if we do X in volume this year tonnage that leads to Y in or if or you took March midpoint of one Q and rolled seasonality going forward , where would that put your tonnage on a year over year basis ?
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think we normally just take it one quarter at a time. Obviously, there's a lot of ifs and buts that have got to play out and could play out in that scenario. But what they say, ifs and buts and beer and nuts, you have a hell of a party. So I'll let all you guys sort of go through all those gymnastics. But just looking at more in the short run because I don't want to undersell what the long term could be. We've produced some serious improvement in our operating ratio once we get into those stronger demand environments. When we actually see the script flipped still remains to be seen. But the second quarter, we've kind of laid the framework out for the first quarter. But the second quarter, typically, you see revenue grow sequentially about 7%.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think we normally just take it one quarter at a time. Obviously, there's a lot of ifs and buts that have got to play out and could play out in that scenario. But what they say, ifs and buts and beer and nuts, you have a hell of a party. So I'll let all you guys sort of go through all those gymnastics. But just looking at more in the short run because I don't want to undersell what the long term could be. We've produced some serious improvement in our operating ratio once we get into those stronger demand environments. When we actually see the script flipped still remains to be seen. But the second quarter, we've kind of laid the framework out for the first quarter. But the second quarter, typically, you see revenue grow sequentially about 7%.
Speaker #12: And where would that put improvement for this year?
Speaker #4: know , I think we
Speaker #4: normally ? Yeah . You just take it one quarter at a time . And you know , obviously there's there's a lot of ifs and buts have got that out and could play to play out that scenario .
Speaker #4: But know what you they say ifs and buts and beer You have a nuts . hell of a . And party and so I'll let all you guys , you know , sort of go through all those gymnastics .
Speaker #4: But you know , if just looking at more the short in because I don't want to undersell what long be , you know , we've produced some serious improvement in our operating ratio we get into .
Speaker #4: those stronger demand environments . You Once when we see the still script flipped , remains to be seen . But , the second quarter , you know , laid framework out the actually for the quarter .
Speaker #4: first And but the the second quarter , typically , you growth revenue sequentially about see 7% . the average operating And ratio improvement is sequentially 300 to 350 basis points .
Adam Satterfield: The average operating ratio improvement is sequentially 300 to 350 basis points. That would, if we see all of that, if we see the spring surge that typically would happen and lead to that 7% type of sequential increase, then that would put the operating ratio pretty close to being flat on a year-over-year basis in the second quarter. We would just have to sort of take it from there. But I still think we don't want anyone to really get out over their skis necessarily at this point from an expectation standpoint. It remains to be seen if this really is going to lead into that spring surge that we would typically see. We certainly feel like the stars are coming into alignment, but we've felt that way before and in particular about February and March of last year.
Adam Satterfield: The average operating ratio improvement is sequentially 300 to 350 basis points. That would, if we see all of that, if we see the spring surge that typically would happen and lead to that 7% type of sequential increase, then that would put the operating ratio pretty close to being flat on a year-over-year basis in the second quarter. We would just have to sort of take it from there. But I still think we don't want anyone to really get out over their skis necessarily at this point from an expectation standpoint. It remains to be seen if this really is going to lead into that spring surge that we would typically see. We certainly feel like the stars are coming into alignment, but we've felt that way before and in particular about February and March of last year.
Speaker #4: So you know , that would if we see all of that , if we see the surge typically would happen . And lead to that 7% type of sequential increase , then that would put the operating close to to ratio being pretty flat over year basis .
Speaker #4: on a year In the second quarter . And then we would just have to sort of take it from there . But but I still think , you know , we don't anyone to really get out over their skis want necessarily that typically see .
Speaker #4: Now , we certainly feel like the we would coming into alignment , are but stars know , we've felt that way before . And and in particular about February and March year .
Adam Satterfield: So that's why we continue to say we're cautiously optimistic about how things might develop for this year. But I think that's why you're seeing some of the pullback in capital expenditures and doing other things that we feel like we needed to do to continue to manage our costs. And we've controlled our variable costs. And I couldn't be more pleased than I am with our operations team. If you think about the loss of network density, if you go back over the past couple of years, we've added about six service centers. And there's a lot of cost that comes with that, just overhead costs in network, linehaul costs, pickup, delivery with the loss of density. So to be able to manage those costs says a lot to our team.
Adam Satterfield: So that's why we continue to say we're cautiously optimistic about how things might develop for this year. But I think that's why you're seeing some of the pullback in capital expenditures and doing other things that we feel like we needed to do to continue to manage our costs. And we've controlled our variable costs. And I couldn't be more pleased than I am with our operations team. If you think about the loss of network density, if you go back over the past couple of years, we've added about six service centers. And there's a lot of cost that comes with that, just overhead costs in network, linehaul costs, pickup, delivery with the loss of density. So to be able to manage those costs says a lot to our team.
Speaker #4: last So , you why we continue to say know , that's we're cautiously optimistic about how things of , you know , develop for this might year , but I think you're seeing , you know , some of the pullback in capital doing expenditures other things that we and feel like we needed to do to continue to to manage our cost .
Speaker #4: And we've controlled our variable cost . And I couldn't be more pleased than I am with our operations team . And if you think about the loss of network density , if you go back over the past couple of years , we've added about six service and there's a lot of centers , cost that comes with that .
Speaker #4: Just overhead cost and network linehaul costs pick delivery with the loss of density. So, to be able to manage those costs, you know, says a lot to our team, says a lot to the continued investment in technology.
Adam Satterfield: It says a lot to the continued investment technology, the tools that we give the team to help kind of manage those costs, and also to the yield discipline. If you weren't disciplined with yields throughout, we wouldn't have been able to keep those costs consistent as well. So a lot goes into it. And it's a total team effort from sales, operations, pricing costs, and you name it. It all kind of feeds into how we've been able to continue to produce strong, profitable growth over the long term. But the last 10 years, despite this 3-year freight recession, we've still got a 10-year average growth rate of about 15% in our net income. So it just says a lot to what we've done. But we think about the future. We got a lot of room for growth ahead and operating ratio improvement.
Adam Satterfield: It says a lot to the continued investment technology, the tools that we give the team to help kind of manage those costs, and also to the yield discipline. If you weren't disciplined with yields throughout, we wouldn't have been able to keep those costs consistent as well. So a lot goes into it. And it's a total team effort from sales, operations, pricing costs, and you name it. It all kind of feeds into how we've been able to continue to produce strong, profitable growth over the long term. But the last 10 years, despite this 3-year freight recession, we've still got a 10-year average growth rate of about 15% in our net income. So it just says a lot to what we've done. But we think about the future. We got a lot of room for growth ahead and operating ratio improvement.
Speaker #4: The tools that we give the team help kind of manage those, and to costs yield discipline. If you weren't with the yields drought, have been to keep disciplined, those able costs consistent as well.
Speaker #4: So , you know , a lot goes it into and , you know it's a total team sales from effort , operations , pricing , cost and you it .
Speaker #4: name of It all kind feeds into how we've been able to continue to produce strong , growth over the long term . profitable That , you know , the last ten years , despite this three year freight recession , we've still got a ten year average growth rate of about 15% in our net income .
Speaker #4: So, it just says a lot to what we've done. But, you know, we think about the future. We've got a lot of growth ahead.
Adam Satterfield: So I'm happy with what we've done, but more excited about what can come.
Adam Satterfield: So I'm happy with what we've done, but more excited about what can come.
Speaker #4: a lot and operating ratio improvement . So you know , I'm happy with what we've excited about can come done . But .
Speaker #4: a lot and operating ratio improvement . So you know , I'm happy with what we've excited about can come done . But what Great .
Jonathan Chappell: Great. Thanks, Adam.
Jonathan Chappell: Great. Thanks, Adam.
Operator: The next question is from Eric Morgan with Barclays. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Eric Morgan with Barclays. Please go ahead.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I wanted to just follow up on the pricing discussion. Sounds like weight per shipment's having a mixed effect in Q1. Just curious how we should think about what the cadence might look like looking a little bit further out, especially if you do kind of hold that 1,500-lb level. I think that'd be a larger increase in Q2 and Q3 from last year. So just curious how we should think about that impact as well as maybe length of haul a little bit lower here. Should we just kind of naturally see that yield number trend a little bit lower from mixed? Thanks.
Eric Morgan: Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking my question. I wanted to just follow up on the pricing discussion. Sounds like weight per shipment's having a mixed effect in Q1. Just curious how we should think about what the cadence might look like looking a little bit further out, especially if you do kind of hold that 1,500-lb level. I think that'd be a larger increase in Q2 and Q3 from last year. So just curious how we should think about that impact as well as maybe length of haul a little bit lower here. Should we just kind of naturally see that yield number trend a little bit lower from mixed? Thanks.
Speaker #12: Adam Thanks , .
Speaker #1: Next question is from Eric Morgan with Go Ahead Barclays. Please.
Speaker #13: morning . Thanks Hey . Good question my . I for taking to just wanted on follow up pricing discussion sounds . like weight per It having a mixed effect in the first quarter .
Speaker #13: Just the curious how we should think about what the cadence might look . Looking a little bit like further out , especially if if you do kind of hold ÂŁ1,500 level , you know , I think that'd be a larger that increase in to and three Q from last year .
Speaker #13: So, just curious how we should think about that impact, as well as the length of maybe a little bit of a haul lower here. Should we just naturally see Q numbers trend a bit lower, a little, from mix?
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think so. I mean, just looking at what normal seasonality would be, we'd be in kind of that 4 to 4.5% type of range. And again, if we have even more of an increase in weight, it could be lower. When you look back at some of our stronger years from an overall revenue standpoint, volume environment, those types of things, we've had revenue per hundredweight growth that's been more in the 3% range. And that was my point earlier with the comment that sometimes I think we get so down in the weeds and thinking about revenue per hundredweight kind of miss the big picture of what's really the revenue trend doing and what's our revenue per shipment versus cost per shipment.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think so. I mean, just looking at what normal seasonality would be, we'd be in kind of that 4 to 4.5% type of range. And again, if we have even more of an increase in weight, it could be lower. When you look back at some of our stronger years from an overall revenue standpoint, volume environment, those types of things, we've had revenue per hundredweight growth that's been more in the 3% range. And that was my point earlier with the comment that sometimes I think we get so down in the weeds and thinking about revenue per hundredweight kind of miss the big picture of what's really the revenue trend doing and what's our revenue per shipment versus cost per shipment.
Speaker #13: Thanks .
Speaker #4: Yeah , I think so . I mean , just looking at at what normal seasonality would be , you know , we'd be in kind of that 4 to 4.5% type of range .
Speaker #4: And , and you know , again , even have if we more of increase an in weight , be know , when you You look back at some of our stronger years from an overall revenue standpoint , volume those types of things , you know , per hundredweight growth .
Speaker #4: That's more in we've had revenue the And , and and that was 3% range . my with the been that , you know , I you know , we think , get so down in the weeds and thinking about revenue per hundredweight , trying to miss big the picture of really revenue the trend , what's And , and doing .
Adam Satterfield: So I'd love to see our weight per shipment go back up to 1,600lbs, which is where we've been in stronger demand environments. And yeah, that might put pressure on that revenue per hundredweight. That's going to do wonderful things for the overall top-line revenue as well as what we would be able to do from an operating ratio standpoint. So we'll continue to kind of manage through that. But certainly, would hope we see that weight per shipment. And if we're talking about some revenue per hundredweight that might be a little bit lower than what was reported the last couple of years, that's probably a good thing in the sense of what's really going on with the demand environment. It's certainly no change with what our yield management philosophy is or how disciplined we continue to be as we manage cost and manage yields.
Adam Satterfield: So I'd love to see our weight per shipment go back up to 1,600lbs, which is where we've been in stronger demand environments. And yeah, that might put pressure on that revenue per hundredweight. That's going to do wonderful things for the overall top-line revenue as well as what we would be able to do from an operating ratio standpoint. So we'll continue to kind of manage through that. But certainly, would hope we see that weight per shipment. And if we're talking about some revenue per hundredweight that might be a little bit lower than what was reported the last couple of years, that's probably a good thing in the sense of what's really going on with the demand environment. It's certainly no change with what our yield management philosophy is or how disciplined we continue to be as we manage cost and manage yields.
Speaker #4: shipment what's our versus cost per shipment . So , you know , I'd love to see weight per shipment go back up to our ÂŁ1,600 , where we've which is been in stronger demand environments .
Speaker #4: And yeah , that might pressure on put that revenue per That's going hundredweight . to do wonderful things for the overall top line revenue , as well as what we would be able to do from a ratio operating So , standpoint .
Speaker #4: we'll continue to to kind of manage through But , you know , certainly would would hope that . we see that weight shipment .
Speaker #4: for And , you know , if we're talking about some revenue per hundredweight , be a little bit lower than what was that might reported the last couple years as a good thing .
Speaker #4: And the of what's really going on with the demand environment , it's certainly no change with what our management sense yield philosophy is or how probably continue to be as we manage costs and manage yields .
[Analyst] (Stephens): Thanks.
Eric Morgan: Thanks.
Operator: The next question is from Risha Harnane with Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Risha Harnain with Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead.
Speaker #13: Thanks .
Richa Harnain: Hey, thanks, guys. So Adam, you mentioned that last week you saw some disruption. Maybe just clarify what went into that. Was it just weather, and did that weigh on your costs? Should we expect higher costs this quarter or Q2 in light of that weather? Is that embedded in your 150 basis points change in OR target? Also, another clarification, curious if the government shutdown had any impact on Q4 or potential impact this quarter from that on you or the industry this quarter. So that's a clarification. And then I guess just my real question beyond those clarifications is incremental margins. You said you have more excess capacity than you've ever had in your network. I know you said you're quite excited about what's to come. Should we think that your incremental returns on growth can be higher than we've ever seen?
Richa Harnain: Hey, thanks, guys. So Adam, you mentioned that last week you saw some disruption. Maybe just clarify what went into that. Was it just weather, and did that weigh on your costs? Should we expect higher costs this quarter or Q2 in light of that weather? Is that embedded in your 150 basis points change in OR target? Also, another clarification, curious if the government shutdown had any impact on Q4 or potential impact this quarter from that on you or the industry this quarter. So that's a clarification. And then I guess just my real question beyond those clarifications is incremental margins. You said you have more excess capacity than you've ever had in your network. I know you said you're quite excited about what's to come. Should we think that your incremental returns on growth can be higher than we've ever seen?
Speaker #1: The question is next from Risha with Haanen Deutsche Bank . go ahead Please .
Speaker #14: Thanks. Hey, guys. So, Adam, you mentioned that last week you saw some, maybe, disruption. Can you clarify what went into that?
Speaker #14: Thanks. Hey, guys. So Adam, you mentioned that last week you saw some maybe disruption. Can you clarify what went on? Was it just weather, and did that weigh on your cost?
Speaker #14: Should we expect higher costs this quarter too, in light of that weather? Is that embedded in your 150 basis points change in your target?
Speaker #14: Also another government clarification . Curious if the shutdown had any impact on for Q or potential impact this quarter from on you or that the industry this quarter ?
Speaker #14: And then so those are that's a clarification . And then I guess just my real question beyond those clarifications is incremental margins . You you have more excess said capacity than you've your network .
Richa Harnain: I believe you eclipsed 40% post-COVID, but that was accompanied by really strong revenue growth. So not sure if that's a unique situation.
Richa Harnain: I believe you eclipsed 40% post-COVID, but that was accompanied by really strong revenue growth. So not sure if that's a unique situation.
Speaker #14: I know you said you're ever had in quite excited about what's come . Should to that your we think incremental returns on growth can be higher than we've ever seen ?
Speaker #14: I believe you eclipsed 40% post-COVID, but that was accompanied by really strong revenue growth. So I'm not sure if that's a unique situation.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I'll probably spend more time addressing the last real question. But yeah, the snowstorm last week, obviously, was disruptive, and that was baked into our revenue and margin guidance, and really nothing material to speak of from a government shutdown standpoint. But I think, just thinking about incremental margins, to me, one, we got to get back to revenue growth to produce them. But I like to think about that breakdown in our income statement structure. And we talk a lot about our direct variable costs. Those were 53% of revenue in 2025. So if you bring on a dollar of business, you should be able to generate a 47% incremental margin if it just takes variable costs from that standpoint and just get complete leverage on all your overhead. And typically, that is what's happened in the early innings of our recovery.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I'll probably spend more time addressing the last real question. But yeah, the snowstorm last week, obviously, was disruptive, and that was baked into our revenue and margin guidance, and really nothing material to speak of from a government shutdown standpoint. But I think, just thinking about incremental margins, to me, one, we got to get back to revenue growth to produce them. But I like to think about that breakdown in our income statement structure. And we talk a lot about our direct variable costs. Those were 53% of revenue in 2025. So if you bring on a dollar of business, you should be able to generate a 47% incremental margin if it just takes variable costs from that standpoint and just get complete leverage on all your overhead. And typically, that is what's happened in the early innings of our recovery.
Speaker #4: Yeah , I'll probably spend more time addressing the last real question , but the snowstorm last week obviously was disruptive and that was was baked into our revenue .
Speaker #4: And margin guidance . And really nothing material to government shutdown standpoint . But I think just thinking about margins , you know , to incremental me , one , we got to get back to to revenue growth produce to them .
Speaker #4: when I But like to think about the that in breakdown our income statement structure , and we talked a lot about our direct variable costs , those were 53% of revenue 2025 .
Speaker #4: So if you bring on a a dollar , a business , you should be able to in generate a 47% incremental margin . If it just takes variable cost .
Speaker #4: From that standpoint and just get complete leverage on on all your and and overhead typically that that is what's happened in the early innings of our recovery .
Adam Satterfield: We just see more of that variable cost and getting that leverage there before you've got to get back into investing in new service center expansion and new equipment and those other assets. But as you add new service centers, that creates incremental costs. You've got a new service center manager and a team of employees at the facility and the office and salespeople and things like that. So it all kind of ties in together. But when I think about just where we stand now, 75 Operating Ratio, we've been at a 70.6. We've talked before about getting to a sub-70 Operating Ratio. I think that sort of mid-40s makes sense from an incremental margin standpoint, makes sense in the early innings. But then let's just stay focused on getting back to achieving that sub-70 Operating Ratio. And we certainly can get there.
Adam Satterfield: We just see more of that variable cost and getting that leverage there before you've got to get back into investing in new service center expansion and new equipment and those other assets. But as you add new service centers, that creates incremental costs. You've got a new service center manager and a team of employees at the facility and the office and salespeople and things like that. So it all kind of ties in together. But when I think about just where we stand now, 75 Operating Ratio, we've been at a 70.6. We've talked before about getting to a sub-70 Operating Ratio. I think that sort of mid-40s makes sense from an incremental margin standpoint, makes sense in the early innings. But then let's just stay focused on getting back to achieving that sub-70 Operating Ratio. And we certainly can get there.
Speaker #4: We more of just see that that variable cost you . know And getting that that leverage there before you've got to get into back investing in new service center expansion and new and , and those equipment other assets .
Speaker #4: But as you add new centers, that creates service costs. You’ve incrementally got a new service center manager and a team of employees at the facility.
Speaker #4: And the office and salespeople and like things that . So it all kind of ties in together . But , you know , when I think about just where we stand now , ratio , we've been at a 70.6 .
Speaker #4: 75 operating know , talked we've before about getting to a sub 70 operating ratio . You know , I think that sort of mid 40s is makes the from an incremental margin standpoint .
Speaker #4: sense in Makes sense in the early innings . But then let's just focused on getting stay back to achieving that sub 70 operating ratio .
Adam Satterfield: I referenced this earlier, but when you look back at some of our really strong years with revenue growth, we've had Operating Ratio improvement in the 300 or more basis point range in any given year. So that's what we'll be focused on. That'll help drive that 75 back to the 70. And when we get to 70, when we beat that goal, that's when we'll establish the next one and probably give new incremental margin, longer-term type of goals that we're looking at as well.
Adam Satterfield: I referenced this earlier, but when you look back at some of our really strong years with revenue growth, we've had Operating Ratio improvement in the 300 or more basis point range in any given year. So that's what we'll be focused on. That'll help drive that 75 back to the 70. And when we get to 70, when we beat that goal, that's when we'll establish the next one and probably give new incremental margin, longer-term type of goals that we're looking at as well.
Speaker #4: And we certainly there . You get I referenced this but when earlier , can look back at some of our really strong years with revenue you know , we've had growth , operating ratio improvement in the 300 or more basis point range in any given year .
Speaker #4: So , that's what we'll focused on . That'll help be drive that . That 75 back to the 70 . And you we get know , when to goal 70 when we beat that we'll that's when we'll establish the next one .
Speaker #4: give , you know , And probably new margin longer incremental type term goals that of we're looking at as well .
Richa Harnain: I like it. Thank you.
Richa Harnain: I like it. Thank you.
Operator: The next question is from Tom Wadewitz with UBS. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Tom Wadewitz with UBS. Please go ahead.
Speaker #14: Like it. Thank you, I.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Yeah, good morning. So Adam, I think this ISM print was so large, such a big step up, and some of the commentary wasn't as bullish as the number, and the orders going up a lot too. What do you hear from customers? Do you hear that much kind of good news and enthusiasm about improvement in activity, or how do you kind of look at what your customer feedback is, and just kind of thinking maybe relative to such a big ISM number, which I know historically is a really good read for LTL?
Tom Wadewitz: Yeah, good morning. So Adam, I think this ISM print was so large, such a big step up, and some of the commentary wasn't as bullish as the number, and the orders going up a lot too. What do you hear from customers? Do you hear that much kind of good news and enthusiasm about improvement in activity, or how do you kind of look at what your customer feedback is, and just kind of thinking maybe relative to such a big ISM number, which I know historically is a really good read for LTL?
Speaker #1: The next question is from Tom Wadewitz with UBS. Please go ahead.
Speaker #15: Yeah . Good morning . So Adam , there's you know , this ism was so print large big step up that and some of the commentary wasn't wasn't I think as the number and the the , you know , orders lot going up a you hear what do customers .
Speaker #15: Yeah . Good morning . So Adam , there's you know , this ism was so print large big step up that and some of the commentary wasn't wasn't I think as the number and the the , you know , orders lot going up a you hear what do from Do you hear that much kind of good news and enthusiasm about that such a , improvement in , you know activity how or do how do you kind of look at what your , what your customer is feedback and just kind of thinking maybe relative to such a big ism number , which I know historically is really good read LTL is , you know , for .
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think that obviously, we solicit feedback constantly from our customer base and our sales team. In the fourth quarter, we build a bottoms-up forecast, and we marry that with a top-down forecast where we're looking at other macroeconomic indicators. Things are starting to feel a little bit better. Even in the fourth quarter last year, I feel like we've had some really good customer conversations in the sense of what they were anticipating their volumes might look like, the amount of business that they would tender to us, and so forth that gave us a little sense of optimism. I just continue to say that that's one month of a print with the ISM, and that's why we want everyone to be cautious with it. We're still looking at volumes that have been down on a year-over-year basis, but we feel like things are getting better.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think that obviously, we solicit feedback constantly from our customer base and our sales team. In the fourth quarter, we build a bottoms-up forecast, and we marry that with a top-down forecast where we're looking at other macroeconomic indicators. Things are starting to feel a little bit better. Even in the fourth quarter last year, I feel like we've had some really good customer conversations in the sense of what they were anticipating their volumes might look like, the amount of business that they would tender to us, and so forth that gave us a little sense of optimism. I just continue to say that that's one month of a print with the ISM, and that's why we want everyone to be cautious with it. We're still looking at volumes that have been down on a year-over-year basis, but we feel like things are getting better.
Speaker #4: Yeah , I think that , you know , obviously we solicit feedback constantly from our customer our sales base and team in the fourth quarter , we build a bottoms up forecast and we marry that with a top down forecast where we're looking at other macroeconomic indicators and and and you know , things are starting to feel a little bit better even in the fourth quarter year .
Speaker #4: I feel like we've had some really good customer in the sense of anticipating they were . Their volumes might look like , the amount of business that they us , and what so forth that , you know , that gave us a would tender to optimism .
Speaker #4: And , you just continued to say that , you know , that's one month of a print with the ISM and and that's why we want everyone to be cautious with it .
Speaker #4: And , you just continued to say that , you know , that's one month of a print with the ISM and and that's why we want everyone to be cautious with know , we're still You looking at at that volumes that , that have been down on a year over year basis .
Adam Satterfield: We're still talking about revenue that would be down on a year-over-year basis in Q1. But one of the things about our business model is I feel like when you think about our long-term strategy of giving superior service, allowing that service to support a fair price, pricing targeting 100 to 150 basis points of yield above price or cost, rather, that's allowed us to improve our cash from operations. There's a flywheel effect to our business model, and we've got to get that flywheel effect going again. So as we can get into the early innings, those first rotations are a little bit slower. We're just making sure everybody's thinking through all of those factors. And it's not just going to turn around on a dime starting tomorrow because that one economic data point came out.
Adam Satterfield: We're still talking about revenue that would be down on a year-over-year basis in Q1. But one of the things about our business model is I feel like when you think about our long-term strategy of giving superior service, allowing that service to support a fair price, pricing targeting 100 to 150 basis points of yield above price or cost, rather, that's allowed us to improve our cash from operations. There's a flywheel effect to our business model, and we've got to get that flywheel effect going again. So as we can get into the early innings, those first rotations are a little bit slower. We're just making sure everybody's thinking through all of those factors. And it's not just going to turn around on a dime starting tomorrow because that one economic data point came out.
Speaker #4: And , know , we but , you like things getting better and are still about talking that revenue that that , would be down on a year over year basis in the first quarter .
Speaker #4: know , one of the things But you about our business is model I feel like when you think about our long term strategy giving of superior service , allowing that service to support a fair price , , pricing , targeting you know 100 to 150 basis points of yield price or cost , rather , you know , us to improve that's allowed our cash from above operations .
Speaker #4: There's a flywheel effect to our business model , and we've got to get that flywheel going effect again . So as we can get into the early innings , you know , it's those first rotations are a little bit We're just making sure slower .
Speaker #4: those all of factors . And it's not just going to turn around on a dime . Starting tomorrow because that , data point one economic came out .
Adam Satterfield: But if we are in the early stages of this, I think history repeats itself in this industry, and you certainly can see how we've outperformed the other carriers when we get into those early stages of recovery. And we're certainly in position. Our team is in position and ready to roll. So we're ready to put it on the trucks and see revenue growth coming again, and the operating ratio improvement will follow.
Adam Satterfield: But if we are in the early stages of this, I think history repeats itself in this industry, and you certainly can see how we've outperformed the other carriers when we get into those early stages of recovery. And we're certainly in position. Our team is in position and ready to roll. So we're ready to put it on the trucks and see revenue growth coming again, and the operating ratio improvement will follow.
Speaker #4: But you know, if we are in the early stages of now, I think this—you know, history repeats itself in this industry.
Speaker #4: And you certainly can. We've outperformed the other, see how carriers, when we get into those early stages of recovery. And certainly, in our position, our team is in position and ready to roll.
Speaker #4: So we're ready on the trucks and see revenue again coming. As growth comes, the operating ratio improvement will follow.
[Analyst] (Stephens): So you are hearing positive input from customers, but maybe not to the degree of the move up in the ISM number. Is that a fair understanding of what you said?
Tom Wadewitz: So you are hearing positive input from customers, but maybe not to the degree of the move up in the ISM number. Is that a fair understanding of what you said?
Speaker #15: you are So hearing positive input from customers , but maybe not to the the move up in in the in the ISM number .
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, that's fair.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, that's fair.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay. Thank you.
Tom Wadewitz: Okay. Thank you.
Speaker #15: Is fair that a you understanding of what degree of .
Operator: The next question is from Bruce Chan with Stifel. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Bruce Chan with Stifel. Please go ahead.
Speaker #4: that's that's Yeah , fair .
Speaker #15: . Thank Okay you
Bruce Chan: Yeah, thanks, operator. And good morning, guys. Adam, you talked about 35% spare capacity in the network, and I know these past couple of years, we've been a little bit more focused on door and facility infrastructure. Just wondering if that number is similar for the fleet and linehaul network, especially with some of the better planning tools that you have, and maybe how we should think about additional fleet CapEx versus maybe flexing PT higher if volumes do indeed accelerate.
Bruce Chan: Yeah, thanks, operator. And good morning, guys. Adam, you talked about 35% spare capacity in the network, and I know these past couple of years, we've been a little bit more focused on door and facility infrastructure. Just wondering if that number is similar for the fleet and linehaul network, especially with some of the better planning tools that you have, and maybe how we should think about additional fleet CapEx versus maybe flexing PT higher if volumes do indeed accelerate.
Speaker #15: .
Speaker #1: From Bruce Stifel, with Chan: Please go ahead. The next is—
Speaker #16: And good Thanks . Operator . guys morning , . You know , talked about 35% spare capacity you Adam , network . And know I these past couple of years we've been a little bit more focused on facility door and and the infrastructure .
Speaker #16: Just wondering if that number is similar for the fleet . And Linehaul network , especially with some of the better have planning and maybe how we should think tools that you about additional fleet CapEx versus , know , maybe flexing hire HT if volumes do indeed you accelerate .
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, we don't have that much excess capacity in the fleet, if you will. We have been heavy with our fleet, but probably not at that same type of level. We try to keep that a little bit tighter. You always want to have spare capacity, if you will, especially in the trailing equipment. If you've got that much excess power, it just hurts you. It's very punitive from a depreciation per unit standpoint. But part of our CapEx this year, we've got about $105 million that's slated, I think, for equipment. And so that's something that we'll continue to look at, replacing where we need to replace.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, we don't have that much excess capacity in the fleet, if you will. We have been heavy with our fleet, but probably not at that same type of level. We try to keep that a little bit tighter. You always want to have spare capacity, if you will, especially in the trailing equipment. If you've got that much excess power, it just hurts you. It's very punitive from a depreciation per unit standpoint. But part of our CapEx this year, we've got about $105 million that's slated, I think, for equipment. And so that's something that we'll continue to look at, replacing where we need to replace.
Speaker #4: , we Yeah have that don't excess much in fleet . If you will . That would we the have been heavy with our fleet .
Speaker #4: But probably not at that same type of level . We try to keep that a little bit tighter . You always want to have spare capacity if you especially in will , the trailing equipment .
Speaker #4: got that much excess power , it just hurts you . If you've very punitive from a depreciation per unit standpoint . So but you know , part our of CapEx , this year , we've got about 105 million .
Speaker #4: That's slated , I think , for for equipment . And and so something that we'll continue that's to to look at we need to replacing where replace use a tractor .
Adam Satterfield: We use a tractor for about 10 years, so we've got some that are at that point of being replaced, but continuing to right-size the equipment pool as well and making sure that we've got equipment in all the right places where we're seeing growth to keep the linehaul network in balance. And we continue to make adjustments to linehaul throughout the year. The team has done a phenomenal job of making sure that we're meeting service standards. We've continued to tighten some of our transit times in certain lanes as well despite the limited density that's been in the network. So looking forward to getting more freight back in the system. That'll make some of that a lot easier, reduce our empty miles, allow us to start running more directs, and bypassing some brakes and so forth.
Adam Satterfield: We use a tractor for about 10 years, so we've got some that are at that point of being replaced, but continuing to right-size the equipment pool as well and making sure that we've got equipment in all the right places where we're seeing growth to keep the linehaul network in balance. And we continue to make adjustments to linehaul throughout the year. The team has done a phenomenal job of making sure that we're meeting service standards. We've continued to tighten some of our transit times in certain lanes as well despite the limited density that's been in the network. So looking forward to getting more freight back in the system. That'll make some of that a lot easier, reduce our empty miles, allow us to start running more directs, and bypassing some brakes and so forth.
Speaker #4: We for years . So we've got some that are at that point of being replaced and continuing but to right size , the equipment pool as well , and making sure that we've got equipment in all the right places where we're seeing growth to keep the line Hall network in balance .
Speaker #4: And we continue to make adjustments to Linehaul throughout the year. The team has done a phenomenal job of making sure that we're meeting service standards.
Speaker #4: We've tighten some of our continued to transit times in certain lanes as well , despite the , you know , the limited density that's been in the network .
Speaker #4: So looking forward to to get more in the freight back system . That'll make some of that a lot easier . Reduce our empty miles , allow us to start running more directs .
Adam Satterfield: And that's what gives me comfort in knowing that those direct costs that we've talked about, that are 53% of revenue in 2025, that we can really show some strong improvement in that number once we get density flowing again.
Adam Satterfield: And that's what gives me comfort in knowing that those direct costs that we've talked about, that are 53% of revenue in 2025, that we can really show some strong improvement in that number once we get density flowing again.
Speaker #4: And by bypassing some breaks and so forth . And and that's what gives me comfort in knowing that those direct costs that we've talked about that are 53% of revenue in 2025 , that that really some we can strong that show improvement in some number get .
Bruce Chan: Okay, great. Thank you.
Bruce Chan: Okay, great. Thank you.
Operator: The next question is from Ari Rosa with Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Ari Rosa with Citigroup. Please go ahead.
Speaker #4: Once we flowing density again .
Speaker #16: Okay . Great . Thank you .
[Analyst] (Citigroup): Hey, good morning. So I was hoping you could address competitive dynamics in the industry, just maybe speak to what your level of confidence is that this cycle will play out like past cycles. And specifically, I'm curious about just the role of Amazon. We've been hearing a lot about their growth ambitions or them looking to expand in the LTL space, and then obviously, FedEx is planning the separation of its freight business. Just talk about how you feel your position. I know obviously the service continues to be exceptional at OD, but just talk about how you think the cycle could play out this time around. Thanks.
Ari Rosa: Hey, good morning. So I was hoping you could address competitive dynamics in the industry, just maybe speak to what your level of confidence is that this cycle will play out like past cycles. And specifically, I'm curious about just the role of Amazon. We've been hearing a lot about their growth ambitions or them looking to expand in the LTL space, and then obviously, FedEx is planning the separation of its freight business. Just talk about how you feel your position. I know obviously the service continues to be exceptional at OD, but just talk about how you think the cycle could play out this time around. Thanks.
Speaker #1: The next question is from Ari Rosa with Citigroup . Please go ahead .
Speaker #17: Hey, morning. So, I was hoping you could address competitive dynamics in the goods industry. Just maybe speak to what your level of confidence is that this cycle will play out like past cycles, and specifically, I'm curious about the role of Amazon.
Speaker #17: We've been hearing a lot about their ambitions or them looking to expand their growth in the LTL space. And then, obviously, FedEx is planning the separation of its freight business.
Speaker #17: Just talk about how you feel positioned. I know service obviously continues to be exceptional or odd, but just talk about how you think the cycle could play out this time around.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, well, all the carriers that are there, top 10 carriers are 80% or so of the industry, and they're all the same other than Yellow that was there before. So we've been competing against these companies for years, and I feel like capacity within the industry continues to be tight and maybe more so than what the perception out there is. When you look at the total number of service centers back in 2022 versus what was reported at the end of 2024, we've seen about a 6% decrease in the number of service centers in the industry. And when you look at shipments per day per service center, those two metrics at the end of 2022 versus the end of 2024 are about the same.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, well, all the carriers that are there, top 10 carriers are 80% or so of the industry, and they're all the same other than Yellow that was there before. So we've been competing against these companies for years, and I feel like capacity within the industry continues to be tight and maybe more so than what the perception out there is. When you look at the total number of service centers back in 2022 versus what was reported at the end of 2024, we've seen about a 6% decrease in the number of service centers in the industry. And when you look at shipments per day per service center, those two metrics at the end of 2022 versus the end of 2024 are about the same.
Speaker #17: Thanks .
Speaker #4: Yeah , well , all the carriers that are there , top ten carriers
Speaker #4: are 85% or so of the industry . And they're all the same other than , your yellow was . That there before . So you know , we've we've been competing against these companies for And years .
Speaker #4: feel like capacity within the industry continues to to be and maybe tight more so than , than what the perception out there is when you look at the total number of service centers back in 2022 versus what was reported at the end of 2024 , you know , we've seen about a 6% decrease in the number of service centers in the industry .
Speaker #4: And when you look at shipments per day for service center, those two metrics at the end of '22 versus '24 are about the same.
Adam Satterfield: So you take an environment that was tight back then, and when you look at the growth numbers for other carriers, despite how strong the volume environment was in 2021 and 2022, at least for the public carriers, I think the growth in tonnage in 2021 was about 4% when we grew 16%. So most of the carriers run their networks a little closer to full utilization, and I think that's a structural difference that we have. We own the majority of our service centers and about 95% of our doors overall. And so we're comfortable with continuing to invest through the cycle and having more of that latent capacity out there to grow into, and that asset ownership gives us that ability to do so.
Adam Satterfield: So you take an environment that was tight back then, and when you look at the growth numbers for other carriers, despite how strong the volume environment was in 2021 and 2022, at least for the public carriers, I think the growth in tonnage in 2021 was about 4% when we grew 16%. So most of the carriers run their networks a little closer to full utilization, and I think that's a structural difference that we have. We own the majority of our service centers and about 95% of our doors overall. And so we're comfortable with continuing to invest through the cycle and having more of that latent capacity out there to grow into, and that asset ownership gives us that ability to do so.
Speaker #4: the end of So you take an environment that was tight back then . And when you look at growth numbers for other carriers , despite how strong the volume environment was in 21 and 22 , at least for the public carriers , I think the tonnage in was 21 growth and about 4% when we grew 16% .
Speaker #4: So , you know , carriers most of the run their networks a little closer to full utilization . And and I think that's a structural difference that that we have , we we own the majority of our service centers .
Speaker #4: And about 95% of our doors overall . And and so we're comfortable with , with continuing to invest through the cycle and having more of that latent capacity out there to grow into .
Adam Satterfield: So that's why we're confident that when we see the demand environment growing again, that I think we'll be able to significantly outgrow the industry. And when we do so, we'll see stronger returns coming in. And despite the challenging environment that we've had for the last few years, we're still producing returns on invested capital of 25% to 30%. And when you look at GAAP numbers, true GAAP earnings, we've got some competitors that have got net income margins in the low single digits. And so I think that'll be the opportunity. What we see in past cycles is that's when other carriers will increase rates more and take advantage of the supply and demand imbalance. But for us, we want to continue on with just more of a consistent strategy, and that's when we see that big density opportunity, if you will.
Adam Satterfield: So that's why we're confident that when we see the demand environment growing again, that I think we'll be able to significantly outgrow the industry. And when we do so, we'll see stronger returns coming in. And despite the challenging environment that we've had for the last few years, we're still producing returns on invested capital of 25% to 30%. And when you look at GAAP numbers, true GAAP earnings, we've got some competitors that have got net income margins in the low single digits. And so I think that'll be the opportunity. What we see in past cycles is that's when other carriers will increase rates more and take advantage of the supply and demand imbalance. But for us, we want to continue on with just more of a consistent strategy, and that's when we see that big density opportunity, if you will.
Speaker #4: And that asset ownership gives us that , that ability to do so . So that's why we're confident that when we see the demand environment growing again , that I think we'll be able to significantly outgrow the industry .
Speaker #4: and when we do And so , we'll see stronger returns coming in . And the the despite environment that challenging we've had for the last few years , we're still producing returns on invested capital of 25 to 30% .
Speaker #4: And you know , when you look at gap numbers , you know , true GAAP earnings , we've got some competitors that have got net income margins .
Speaker #4: You know , in the single low digits . And so I think the that'll be opportunity . What we see in past cycles you know , that's is , when other carriers will increase rates more and take advantage of supply and demand imbalance .
Speaker #4: And but for us we want to continue on with , with just more of a consistent strategy . And and that's when we see that that big density opportunity , if you will .
Adam Satterfield: It's what we're expecting when we finally see the turn in the cycle.
Adam Satterfield: It's what we're expecting when we finally see the turn in the cycle.
[Analyst] (Citigroup): Very helpful. Thanks.
Ari Rosa: Very helpful. Thanks.
Speaker #4: And that's what we're expecting when we when we finally see the turn in the cycle .
Operator: The next question is from Jeff Kauffman with Vertical Research. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Jeff Kauffman with Vertical Research. Please go ahead.
Speaker #17: Very helpful . Thanks .
[Analyst] (Vertical Research): Thank you very much, and congratulations. A lot of my questions have been answered at this point, so I want to go back to the equipment discussion you were having. Some of the truckers I've been talking to have said, "Listen, we're having trouble quoting our Freightliners or our Internationals because of the Section 232 tariffs, and people aren't certain what the rebates are going to be." But we've got more fundamental pricing on our domestically produced trucks like our Pete's and Kenworths. I was just kind of curious what you're seeing on the equipment side in terms of quoting activity from the OEs in the wake of some of the tariff changes.
Jeffrey Kauffman: Thank you very much, and congratulations. A lot of my questions have been answered at this point, so I want to go back to the equipment discussion you were having. Some of the truckers I've been talking to have said, "Listen, we're having trouble quoting our Freightliners or our Internationals because of the Section 232 tariffs, and people aren't certain what the rebates are going to be." But we've got more fundamental pricing on our domestically produced trucks like our Pete's and Kenworths. I was just kind of curious what you're seeing on the equipment side in terms of quoting activity from the OEs in the wake of some of the tariff changes.
Speaker #1: The next question is from Jeff Kaufman with Vertical Research. Please go ahead.
Speaker #18: Thank you very much. And congratulations. A lot of my questions have been answered at this point, so I want to go back to the equipment.
Speaker #18: Discussion you were having . You know , some of the truckers I've been talking to have said , listen , we're having trouble quoting our freightliners or our internationals because of the section two , 32 tariffs .
Speaker #18: And people aren't certain what the rebates are going to be. But we've got more fundamental pricing on domestically produced trucks, like on our Pete's and Kenworth's.
Speaker #18: I was just kind of curious what you're on the seeing equipment side in terms of quoting activity from the OES in the wake of some of the tariff changes ?
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think that there are always challenges that we go through when we look at the cost of equipment and how we plan for equipment and so forth. And it seems like every engine change and new regulation, it's done nothing but increase the cost of equipment. And for us, as I just mentioned, we typically will use a tractor for 10 years. So you think about the per-unit price 10 years ago versus today, it's significantly different. That's a big driver of some of our cost inflation when you think about those on a per-unit basis. So that's part of why when we look at the number of units we were going to buy this year, you take that all into consideration.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think that there are always challenges that we go through when we look at the cost of equipment and how we plan for equipment and so forth. And it seems like every engine change and new regulation, it's done nothing but increase the cost of equipment. And for us, as I just mentioned, we typically will use a tractor for 10 years. So you think about the per-unit price 10 years ago versus today, it's significantly different. That's a big driver of some of our cost inflation when you think about those on a per-unit basis. So that's part of why when we look at the number of units we were going to buy this year, you take that all into consideration.
Speaker #4: Yeah, I think that there are always challenges that we go through when we look at the cost of the equipment and how we plan for equipment.
Speaker #4: And so forth , and it seems like every engine change and new regulation , it's done nothing but increase the cost of equipment and for us , as I just mentioned , we typically will use a tractor for ten years .
Speaker #4: So you think the per about unit price ten years ago versus today . It's significantly different . That's a big driver of some of our cost inflation .
Speaker #4: When you think about those on a So per unit basis . so you know that's part of why we , we you know when we look at the number of units we were going to buy this year , you take that and all but at the end of the day , you know , you need the fleet that you need and you've got to got to build the pricing of , of those units .
Adam Satterfield: But at the end of the day, you need the fleet that you need, and you've got to build the pricing of those units and every other element of cost that we deal with into our cost model and let that drive the output of what we need. But I would say, again, that's just one element of cost. If you go up and down our income statement and you look and think about per-unit inflation, we've been able to average cost per shipment inflation of about 3.5% to 4% over the last 10 years. Each line item has had significant inflation, and more so than that number. That's the importance of why we stay so focused on our cost and managing cost and managing efficiencies and discretionary spending. We're doing all these other things.
Adam Satterfield: But at the end of the day, you need the fleet that you need, and you've got to build the pricing of those units and every other element of cost that we deal with into our cost model and let that drive the output of what we need. But I would say, again, that's just one element of cost. If you go up and down our income statement and you look and think about per-unit inflation, we've been able to average cost per shipment inflation of about 3.5% to 4% over the last 10 years. Each line item has had significant inflation, and more so than that number. That's the importance of why we stay so focused on our cost and managing cost and managing efficiencies and discretionary spending. We're doing all these other things.
Speaker #4: And every other element of cost that we deal with into our cost model and let that drive the output of what we need .
Speaker #4: But , you know , I'd say , you know , again , that's just one element of If you cost . go up and down our income statement and you look and think about per unit inflation , we've been able to average cost per shipment , inflation of about three and a half to 4% over the last ten years .
Speaker #4: You know, each line item has had significant inflation, and more so than that number. You know, that's the reason why we stay so focused on our cost.
Adam Satterfield: We're driving operating efficiencies that really minimize the true inflationary impact that we're seeing from things like insurance costs, group health and dental medical costs, the cost of equipment, and so forth and so on. So our team has done a great job leveraging technologies, business process improvements to be able to keep our cost inflation low. And then that, in turn, allows us that when we think about trying to target 4.5% to 5% type of increases that we've generated over the long term in our revenue per shipment, that's that positive 100 to 150 basis points delta that we want to be able to generate those too. But we can't take our eye off the ball when it comes to managing costs. You've got to think about cost day in and day out in good times and bad.
Adam Satterfield: We're driving operating efficiencies that really minimize the true inflationary impact that we're seeing from things like insurance costs, group health and dental medical costs, the cost of equipment, and so forth and so on. So our team has done a great job leveraging technologies, business process improvements to be able to keep our cost inflation low. And then that, in turn, allows us that when we think about trying to target 4.5% to 5% type of increases that we've generated over the long term in our revenue per shipment, that's that positive 100 to 150 basis points delta that we want to be able to generate those too. But we can't take our eye off the ball when it comes to managing costs. You've got to think about cost day in and day out in good times and bad.
Speaker #4: And managing cost and managing and discretionary spending . You know , we're doing all these other things . We're driving operating efficiencies that really minimize the true inflationary impact that we're seeing from things like insurance costs , group health and dental medical costs , the cost of equipment and so forth and so on .
Speaker #4: So our team has done a great job leveraging technology and business process improvements to be able to keep our cost inflation low. And then, that in turn allows us to, when we think about trying to target four and a half to five percent type of increases that we've generated over the long term.
Speaker #4: And our revenue per shipment, you know, that's that positive 100 to 150 basis points delta that we want to be able to generate those too.
Adam Satterfield: I think that's what our team has done really over the course of our history, but over the past few years in particular.
Adam Satterfield: I think that's what our team has done really over the course of our history, but over the past few years in particular.
Speaker #4: But you know we can't take our eye off the ball when it comes to managing costs. You've got to think about cost day in and day out, in good times and bad.
Speaker #4: And I think that's what our team has done over the really over the course of our history . But , you know , over the past few years in particular
[Analyst] (Vertical Research): Thank you.
Jeffrey Kauffman: Thank you.
Operator: The next question is from Brian Ossenbeck with JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Brian Ossenbeck with JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Speaker #4: .
Speaker #18: you Thank .
[Analyst] (JP Morgan): Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. Adam, just to quickly follow up on the cost per shipment inflation you're expecting this year, is it still 3.5% to 4%? You outlined some of the equipment and healthcare costs. Is that something you still think is reasonable to expect this year? And then maybe just to follow up on the competition side, private companies are obviously getting a bit bigger here as well in the wake of Yellow going out of business. Wanted to see if you thought that had any impact on how the next upcycle might play out for the industry. Thanks.
Brian Ossenbeck: Good morning. Thanks for taking the question. Adam, just to quickly follow up on the cost per shipment inflation you're expecting this year, is it still 3.5% to 4%? You outlined some of the equipment and healthcare costs. Is that something you still think is reasonable to expect this year? And then maybe just to follow up on the competition side, private companies are obviously getting a bit bigger here as well in the wake of Yellow going out of business. Wanted to see if you thought that had any impact on how the next upcycle might play out for the industry. Thanks.
Speaker #1: Next, the question is from Brian Ossenbeck with JP Morgan. Please go ahead.
Speaker #11: Good morning . Thanks for taking the question quick . Just a follow up on the cost per shipment inflation . You're expecting this year .
Speaker #11: Is it still a three and a half to 4% . And you outlined some of the equipment and healthcare costs . Is that something you still think is reasonable to expect this year .
Speaker #11: And then maybe just to follow up on the competition side, private companies are obviously getting a bit bigger here as well. And in the wake of [company] going out of business, wanted to see if you thought that had any impact on how the next cycle, up cycle, might play out for the industry.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, so the cost inflation, I think it's going to probably be a little bit heavier again this year. I'm thinking it's probably going to be more in the 5 to 5.5% range, and that's core inflation, not really thinking about what fuel might do. And right now, we're looking at fuel prices that have been lower on a year-over-year basis. So we'll see how that continues to play out. But I feel like we've, as I mentioned earlier, we're looking at a little more inflation from an employee benefits standpoint. I think we're going to continue to see some pressures there within our group health and dental cost in particular. And then we've made some continued improvements to our pay time off policies and so forth that I referenced.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, so the cost inflation, I think it's going to probably be a little bit heavier again this year. I'm thinking it's probably going to be more in the 5 to 5.5% range, and that's core inflation, not really thinking about what fuel might do. And right now, we're looking at fuel prices that have been lower on a year-over-year basis. So we'll see how that continues to play out. But I feel like we've, as I mentioned earlier, we're looking at a little more inflation from an employee benefits standpoint. I think we're going to continue to see some pressures there within our group health and dental cost in particular. And then we've made some continued improvements to our pay time off policies and so forth that I referenced.
Speaker #11: Thanks .
Speaker #4: Yes . So cost the inflation we're I think it's going to probably be a little bit heavier again this year . I'm thinking it's probably going to be more in the 5 to 5.5% range .
Speaker #4: And that's core inflation. Not really about what, you know, thinking fuel might do. And right now, we're looking at fuel prices that have been lower.
Speaker #4: a You know , on year basis . So you know we'll see how that continues to play out . But I feel like we've as I mentioned earlier , we're looking at a little more inflation from an employee benefits standpoint .
Speaker #4: I think we're going to continue to see some pressures there within our group health and dental costs in particular, and then we've made some continued improvements to our paid time off policies and so forth that I referenced.
Adam Satterfield: So anticipating some inflation there, continued inflationary increases, as just mentioned, on the equipment, on our insurance programs, and other things. So if we can get some density coming back in the system, I think that is something that could turn that number into maybe seeing some improvement and working it back down. But if you just sort of stay in more of a neutral volume environment, if you will, I'm thinking that we're going to be more in that 5% to 5.5% range. And remind me again, the second part was it just about the impact of Yellow being out?
Adam Satterfield: So anticipating some inflation there, continued inflationary increases, as just mentioned, on the equipment, on our insurance programs, and other things. So if we can get some density coming back in the system, I think that is something that could turn that number into maybe seeing some improvement and working it back down. But if you just sort of stay in more of a neutral volume environment, if you will, I'm thinking that we're going to be more in that 5% to 5.5% range. And remind me again, the second part was it just about the impact of Yellow being out?
Speaker #4: So anticipating some inflation , there , you know , continued inflationary increases as just mentioned on the equipment , on our insurance programs and other things .
Speaker #4: So if we can get some density coming back in the system , I think that that is something that could turn that number into to maybe seeing some improvement in working it back down .
Speaker #4: But if you just sort of stay in more of a neutral volume environment , if you will , I'm thinking that we're going to be , you know , more in that 5 to 5.5% range .
[Analyst] (JP Morgan): Yeah, just how private companies seem to have taken up some of that extra capacity. That has a meaningful impact in how the industry might play out or the cycle might play out.
Brian Ossenbeck: Yeah, just how private companies seem to have taken up some of that extra capacity. That has a meaningful impact in how the industry might play out or the cycle might play out.
Speaker #4: And remind me again, the second part was just about the impact of Yellow being out.
Speaker #11: Just how Yeah . private companies seem to have taken up some of that extra capacity . If that has a meaningful impact on how the industry might play out or the cycle might play .
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think many of those service centers ended up with the private carriers, as it's been reported. But again, looking at overall capacity for the industry, the number of service centers is the best thing we have. That looks to be down versus about 6%. And there may be some service centers that were swapped, adding a few more doors, but I think that's a good proxy for capacity that's been removed from the market. So again, if you had a capacity-constrained industry back in 2021 and 2022, the number of shipments per day per service center are the same in 2024 with where we were back in that capacity-constrained environment. I think we're going to see capacity constraints when we start coming back into a stronger demand environment.
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I think many of those service centers ended up with the private carriers, as it's been reported. But again, looking at overall capacity for the industry, the number of service centers is the best thing we have. That looks to be down versus about 6%. And there may be some service centers that were swapped, adding a few more doors, but I think that's a good proxy for capacity that's been removed from the market. So again, if you had a capacity-constrained industry back in 2021 and 2022, the number of shipments per day per service center are the same in 2024 with where we were back in that capacity-constrained environment. I think we're going to see capacity constraints when we start coming back into a stronger demand environment.
Speaker #19: Out .
Speaker #4: Yeah , I think many of those service centers ended up with the private carriers . as it's been reported . But , you again , looking at overall capacity for the industry , number of service centers is the best thing we have .
Speaker #4: You know , that that looks to be down versus about 6% . And and there may be some service centers that were swapped adding a few more doors .
Speaker #4: But I think that's a good proxy for capacity . from the That's market . been removed So again , if you had a capacity constrained industry back in 21 and 22 .
Speaker #4: The number of shipments per day per service center or the same in 2024 with where we were back in that capacity constrained environment , I think we're going to see capacity constraints when we start coming back into a stronger demand environment , and that's what gives us the confidence that we'll be able to to win market share and outperform the other carriers from a volume standpoint , in the early stages that recovery .
Adam Satterfield: And that's what gives us the confidence that we'll be able to win market share and outperform the other carriers from a volume standpoint in the early stages of that recovery.
Adam Satterfield: And that's what gives us the confidence that we'll be able to win market share and outperform the other carriers from a volume standpoint in the early stages of that recovery.
[Analyst] (JP Morgan): All right. Thanks very much, Adam.
Brian Ossenbeck: All right. Thanks very much, Adam.
Operator: The next question is from Stephanie Moore with Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Stephanie Moore with Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Speaker #11: All right. Thanks very much, Adam.
Stephanie Moore: Great. Good morning. Thank you. I wanted to maybe circle back to a prior question that was asked where you kind of talked through a bottoms-up analysis of talking with customers and maybe some of the slightly more optimistic conversations you're hearing from them. Is there any way you can parse out the end markets or if there's any concentration of end markets where you're hearing some of that optimism from customers, whether it's within industrial, is it large infrastructure kind of data center plays? Is it within consumer? Any additional insight would be really appreciated. Thank you.
Stephanie Moore: Great. Good morning. Thank you. I wanted to maybe circle back to a prior question that was asked where you kind of talked through a bottoms-up analysis of talking with customers and maybe some of the slightly more optimistic conversations you're hearing from them. Is there any way you can parse out the end markets or if there's any concentration of end markets where you're hearing some of that optimism from customers, whether it's within industrial, is it large infrastructure kind of data center plays? Is it within consumer? Any additional insight would be really appreciated. Thank you.
Speaker #1: Next, the question is from Stephanie Moore with Jefferies. Please go ahead.
Speaker #16: Great. Good morning. Thank you. I wanted to maybe circle back to a prior question that was asked, where you kind of talked through a bottom.
Speaker #16: Bottoms up analysis of talking with customers and maybe some of the slightly more there conversations you're them . from Is hearing any any way you parse can out the end markets or if there's any concentration of end markets where you're hearing some of that optimism from customers , whether it's within industrial or is it large infrastructure kind of data center plays within consumer , any additional insight would be really appreciated .
Adam Satterfield: Well, 55% to 60% of our revenue is industrial-related, and I think that's similar for the industry. That's why I assume it's so highly correlated with industry volumes. So kind of hearing it across the board, I think that seeing some improvement there. We've had feedback that inventories have generally been lower, so we're thinking that we're going to see some inventory replenishment. But I think it's sort of different factors for different customers. And our business is so diversified, we move everything, including the kitchen sink. So if housing starts improving, you'll see things like faucets and so forth that will have increased demand there. And obviously, all of the products that go into someone moving into a new home. But I think that'll be important to see some continued improvement there.
Adam Satterfield: Well, 55% to 60% of our revenue is industrial-related, and I think that's similar for the industry. That's why I assume it's so highly correlated with industry volumes. So kind of hearing it across the board, I think that seeing some improvement there. We've had feedback that inventories have generally been lower, so we're thinking that we're going to see some inventory replenishment. But I think it's sort of different factors for different customers. And our business is so diversified, we move everything, including the kitchen sink. So if housing starts improving, you'll see things like faucets and so forth that will have increased demand there. And obviously, all of the products that go into someone moving into a new home. But I think that'll be important to see some continued improvement there.
Speaker #16: Thank you .
Speaker #4: Well , 55 to 60% of our revenue is industrial related . And I think that's similar for the industry . That's why I assume is so highly correlated with the industry volumes .
Speaker #4: So , you know , kind of hearing it across the board , I think that seeing some improvement there , we've had feedback that inventories have generally been lower .
Speaker #4: So we're thinking that we're going to see some inventory replenishment . But I think it's sort of different factors for for different And customers .
Speaker #4: you know , our business is so diversified . You know , we move everything , including the kitchen sink . So you've got if housing starts improving , you know , you'll see faucets things like and so forth that will have increased demand there .
Speaker #4: And obviously , you know , all of the products that go into someone moving into a new home . But I think that'll be important to see .
Adam Satterfield: If we continue to see on the industrial side, at the end of the day, what drives it all is a healthy consumer. And so consumer confidence, consumer strength, and buying patterns will drive whether or not we see sustained improvement in the demand and volume environment. And so hopefully, when people start seeing if tax returns look better, and they've got more discretionary income to go spend, and then inventory does need to be replenished, those will all be good things that will create freight that'll find its way on our trucks, and we're looking forward to it.
Adam Satterfield: If we continue to see on the industrial side, at the end of the day, what drives it all is a healthy consumer. And so consumer confidence, consumer strength, and buying patterns will drive whether or not we see sustained improvement in the demand and volume environment. And so hopefully, when people start seeing if tax returns look better, and they've got more discretionary income to go spend, and then inventory does need to be replenished, those will all be good things that will create freight that'll find its way on our trucks, and we're looking forward to it.
Speaker #4: Some continued improvement there . You know , if we continue to see on the side , at the end of the day , you know , what drives it all is a healthy consumer .
Speaker #4: And so, consumer confidence and consumer strength and buying patterns will drive us, whether or not we see, you know, sustained improvement in the demand.
Speaker #4: volume and environment. And so, hopefully, when people start seeing if tax returns look better and they've got more income to discretionary go spend, then inventory does need to be replenished.
Speaker #4: You know, those will all be good things that will create freight, that will find its way on our trucks. And looking forward, we're to it.
Stephanie Moore: Thank you so much.
Stephanie Moore: Thank you so much.
Operator: The next question is from Christopher Kuhn with Benchmark. Please go ahead.
Operator: The next question is from Christopher Kuhn with Benchmark. Please go ahead.
[Analyst] (Benchmark): Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking the question at the end of the call. I really appreciate the time you guys giving today. You guys don't talk about it as much, but are there any AI initiatives that you are kind of undertaking in the next 2026 and beyond that we should be focused on?
Christopher Kuhn: Hey, good morning. Thanks for taking the question at the end of the call. I really appreciate the time you guys giving today. You guys don't talk about it as much, but are there any AI initiatives that you are kind of undertaking in the next 2026 and beyond that we should be focused on?
Speaker #16: Thank you so much .
Speaker #1: next The question is from Christopher Kuhn with benchmark . Please go ahead .
Speaker #7: Hey .
Speaker #18: Good morning . Thanks for taking the question . At the end of the call . I really appreciate the time you guys given today .
Speaker #18: It's—you guys don't talk about it as much, but are there any IT initiatives that you are kind of undertaking, and in the next 2026 and beyond that we should be focused on?
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I would put it in the broader context of technology investments. And obviously, AI is kind of the buzzword of the moment, and we've got some investment there that's going into some of the tools. But I think from a bigger picture standpoint, you think about Old Dominion; I think the investment that we've made in technology, it goes back decades. And we've got OD Technology is one of our branded products. And so we've been at the forefront of tech investment, I think, for years and years, and that'll be no different going forward. But there's got to be investment that's going to end up with a return. We don't want to just say we're investing in machine learning and AI just to be able to say it. Where's the proof in the pudding?
Adam Satterfield: Yeah, I would put it in the broader context of technology investments. And obviously, AI is kind of the buzzword of the moment, and we've got some investment there that's going into some of the tools. But I think from a bigger picture standpoint, you think about Old Dominion; I think the investment that we've made in technology, it goes back decades. And we've got OD Technology is one of our branded products. And so we've been at the forefront of tech investment, I think, for years and years, and that'll be no different going forward. But there's got to be investment that's going to end up with a return. We don't want to just say we're investing in machine learning and AI just to be able to say it. Where's the proof in the pudding?
Speaker #4: Yeah, you know, I would put it in the broader context of technology investments, and obviously, AI is kind of the buzzword at the moment.
Speaker #4: of the And , you know , we've got some investment there that's going into some of the tools . But , you know , I think from a bigger picture standpoint , you think about Old Dominion .
Speaker #4: I think the investment that we've made in technology , you know , it goes back decades . And we've got technology is one of our And and so products .
Speaker #4: branded , you know , we've been at the forefront of tech think for , for years and years . And and that'll be no different going forward .
Speaker #4: But you know , there's got to be investment that's going to end up with the We don't want to just say return . we're investing and machine learning and AI just to be able to say it , you know , where's the proof in the pudding .
Adam Satterfield: I think when you look at our cost performance in 2025, that's kind of the proof. We wouldn't have been able to manage our line-haul costs like we have if we've not continued to invest in and refine the tools that our teams are using. It's the same thing on the dock. It's the same thing within our pickup delivery operations. We've got to continue to make investments in products that are going to have a return associated with them. You don't want to invest in something that's going to cost you more on the technology than what you're going to save, potentially. Sometimes that could be the case. I think that our focus will continue to be what I just said, investing where it's going to drive operating efficiencies.
Adam Satterfield: I think when you look at our cost performance in 2025, that's kind of the proof. We wouldn't have been able to manage our line-haul costs like we have if we've not continued to invest in and refine the tools that our teams are using. It's the same thing on the dock. It's the same thing within our pickup delivery operations. We've got to continue to make investments in products that are going to have a return associated with them. You don't want to invest in something that's going to cost you more on the technology than what you're going to save, potentially. Sometimes that could be the case. I think that our focus will continue to be what I just said, investing where it's going to drive operating efficiencies.
Speaker #4: And I think when you look at our cost performance in 2025 , you know , that's kind of the proof . And , you know , we wouldn't have been able to manage our line all costs like we have if we've not continued to invest in and refine the tools that our teams are using .
Speaker #4: And , you know , it's the same thing on the dock . It's the same thing within our pickup delivery operations . You know , we've got to continue to to make investments in products that are going to have a return associated with them .
Speaker #4: You don't want to invest in something that's going to cost you more on the technology that you would otherwise . What you're going to save sometimes could be that that potentially and case .
Speaker #4: But , you know , I think that our focus will continue to be what I just said , investing where it's going to drive operating efficiencies .
Adam Satterfield: The other key part, though, will be continuing to invest in something that drives a strategic advantage from a customer service standpoint. So if we can continue to try to stay ahead of the game, have systems that drive stickier customer relationships, those are kind of the two big key factors that we think about when we think about the dollars that are invested in tech initiatives year in and year out.
Adam Satterfield: The other key part, though, will be continuing to invest in something that drives a strategic advantage from a customer service standpoint. So if we can continue to try to stay ahead of the game, have systems that drive stickier customer relationships, those are kind of the two big key factors that we think about when we think about the dollars that are invested in tech initiatives year in and year out.
Speaker #4: The other key part , though , will be continuing to invest in something that drives the strategic advantage from a customer service if we standpoint .
Speaker #4: can continue to try to ahead of the stay So game , have systems that drive stickier , customer relationships , you know , those are the two big key factors that we think about when we about think the dollars that are invested in tech initiatives year in and year out .
[Analyst] (Benchmark): Got it. Thanks. Appreciate it, Adam.
Christopher Kuhn: Got it. Thanks. Appreciate it, Adam.
Operator: This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Marty Freeman for any closing remarks.
Operator: This concludes our question and answer session. I would like to turn the conference back over to Marty Freeman for any closing remarks.
Speaker #18: Got it. Thanks. Appreciate it, Adam.
Speaker #1: This concludes our question and answer session . I would like to turn the conference back over to Marty Freeman for any closing remarks .
Marty Freeman: Thank you all for your participation today. We appreciate your questions, and please feel free to give us a call later if you have anything further. Thanks and have a great day.
Marty Freeman: Thank you all for your participation today. We appreciate your questions, and please feel free to give us a call later if you have anything further. Thanks and have a great day.
Speaker #3: Thank you all for your participation today . We appreciate your questions and please feel free to give us a call later if you have anything further .
Operator: The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.
Operator: The conference is now concluded. Thank you for attending today's presentation. You may now disconnect.