Kinder Morgan Q4 2025 Kinder Morgan Inc Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q4 2025 Kinder Morgan Inc Earnings Call
Want to listen only mode until the question and answer session of today's conference. At that time, you may press star followed by the number. 1 to ask a question, please unmute your phones and state, your name and prompted.
Today's conference is being recorded if you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time, it is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Rich Kinder executive, chairman of Kinder Morgan.
Speaker #1: At that time, you may press star, followed by the number one, to ask a question. Please unmute your phones and state your name when prompted.
Speaker #1: Today's conference is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Rich Kinder, Executive Chairman.
I thank you Michelle, before we begin as usual, I'd like to remind you that kmi's earnings release today and this call include forward-looking statements within the meeting of the private Securities, litigation Reform, Act of 1995, and the Securities, and Exchange Act of 1934, as well as certain non-gaap Financial measures.
Speaker #1: of Kinder Morgan. thank
Speaker #2: Thank you, Michelle. Before we begin, as usual, I'd like to remind you that KMI’s earnings release today and this call include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as well as certain non-GAAP financial measures.
Operator: Before we begin, as usual, I'd like to remind you that KMI's earnings released today and this call include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as well as certain non-GAAP financial measures. Before making any investment decisions, we strongly encourage you to read our full disclosures on forward-looking statements and use of non-GAAP financial measures set forth at the end of our earnings release, as well as review our latest filings with the SEC for important material assumptions, expectations, and risk factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated and described in such forward-looking statements. I have only two comments before turning the call over to our CEO, Kim Dang, and the team.
For making any investment decisions. We strongly encourage you to read our full disclosures on forward-looking statements and use of non-gaap financial measures set forth. At the end of our earnings release, as well as review, our latest filings with the SEC for important material, assumptions, expectations and risk factors. That may cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated and described in such forward-looking statements.
Speaker #2: Before making any investment decisions, we strongly encourage you to read our full disclosures on forward-looking statements and use of non-GAAP financial measures set forth at the end of our earnings release, as well as review our latest filings with the SEC.
Speaker #2: For important material assumptions, expectations, and risk factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated and described in such forward-looking statements.
Speaker #2: I have only two comments before turning the call over to our CEO, Kim Dang, and the team. First, we believe our bullish outlook on natural gas demand remains grounded in reality.
I have only 2 comments for turning before. Turning the call over to our CEO, Kim, dang, and the team first. We believe our bullish outlook on natural, gas demand remains grounded in reality. And we expect to see a very strong growth over the rest of this decade and Beyond. Now, while there are several important drivers of that growth, the largest and most certain driver Remains the need for additional lgp gas to service both expansions of existing export facilities and new Greenfield projects coming online.
Operator: First, we believe our bullish outlook on natural gas demand remains grounded in reality, and we expect to see very strong growth over the rest of this decade and beyond. Now, while there are several important drivers of that growth, the largest and most certain driver remains the need for additional LNG feed gas to service both expansions of existing export facilities and new greenfield projects coming online. We now estimate feed gas demand will average 19.8 Bcf per day in 2026, which is an all-time record, an increase of 19% from the daily average of 16.6 Bcf a day in 2025. And we see that demand increasing to over 34 Bcf per day by 2030.
Speaker #2: And we expect to see very strong growth over the rest of this decade and beyond. Now, while there are several important drivers of that growth, the largest and most certain driver remains the need for additional LNG feed gas to service both expansions of existing export facilities and new greenfield projects coming online.
Speaker #2: We now estimate feed gas demand will average 19.8 Bcf per day in 2026, which is an all-time record and an increase of 19% from the daily average of 16.6 Bcf per day in 2025.
We now estimate feed, gas demand. Will average 19.8 BCF per day in 2026, which is an all-time record and increase of 19% from the daily average of 16.6 BCF A Day in 2025. And we see that demand increasing to over 34 BCF per day by 2030. This astounding growth is enormously beneficial to the Midstream sector and especially to companies like Kinder Morgan that have extensive pipeline networks, along the Texas. Louisiana Gulf Coast, which is the location of most of the export terminals, present and future.
Speaker #2: And we see that demand increasing to over 34 Bcf per day by 2030. This astounding growth is enormously beneficial to the midstream sector, and especially to companies like Kinder Morgan, that have extensive pipeline networks along the Texas-Louisiana Gulf Coast, which is the location of most of the export terminals present and future.
Our throughput agreements for delivery of the feed gas are essentially taker, pay in nature which gives us great confidence in the resulting cash flow.
Operator: This astounding growth is enormously beneficial to the midstream sector, and especially to companies like Kinder Morgan that have extensive pipeline networks along the Texas, Louisiana Gulf Coast, which is the location of most of the export terminals present and future. Our throughput agreements for delivery of the feed gas are essentially take-or-pay in nature, which gives us great confidence in the resulting cash flow. My second comment is specific to Kinder Morgan. You will hear from Kim and the team that we finished 2025 very strong compared to 2024 and to our budget for 2025. And as you know from our earlier release of the budget for 2026, we expect more good performance this year. Once again, the chief driver of our success in both years is the extraordinary strength of our natural gas assets. And with that, I'll turn it over to Kim. Okay. Thanks, Rich.
Speaker #2: Our throughput agreements for delivery of the feed gas are essentially take-or-pay in nature, which gives us great confidence in the resulting cash flow. My second comment is specific to Kinder Morgan.
Speaker #2: You will hear from Kim and the team that we finished 2025 very strong compared to 2024 and to our budget for 2025. And as you know from our earlier release of the budget for 2026, we expect more good performance this year.
My second comment is specific to Kinder Morgan. You will hear from Kim and the team that we finished 2025, very strong compared to 2024 and to our budget for 2025. And as you know, from our earlier release of the budget for 2026, we expect more good performance. This year. Once again, the chief driver of our success in both years is the extraordinary strength of our natural gas assets. And with that, I'll turn it over to Kim. Okay, thanks Rich. Um, as rich said, we had a fantastic fourth quarter producing record results for the quarter. And the year, much stronger than we anticipated. When we announced our Q3 results.
Speaker #2: Once again, the chief driver of our success in both years is the extraordinary strength of our natural gas assets. And with that, I'll turn it over to Kim.
For the quarter adjusted. Ebit dial is up. 10% compared to the fourth quarter of last year and adjusted EPS grew 22%. Those are big numbers for a stable, Midstream business, like ours.
Speaker #3: Okay, thanks, Rich. As Rich said, we had a fantastic fourth quarter, producing record results for the quarter and the year—much stronger than we anticipated when we announced our Q3 results.
Operator: As Rich said, we had a fantastic Q4, producing record results for the quarter and the year, much stronger than we anticipated when we announced our Q3 results. For the quarter, Adjusted EBITDA was up 10% compared to the Q4 of last year, and Adjusted EPS grew 22%. Those are big numbers for a stable midstream business like ours. The biggest driver of the outperformance was natural gas. It had an outstanding quarter and year. Our project backlog has increased by approximately $650 million to $10 billion. We added a little over $900 million in new projects, which was offset by $265 million of projects placed in service. The two most significant additions are Florida Gas Transmission projects, both supported by long-term shipper contracts. Our backlog multiple remains below 6x, which will drive very nice growth over the next few years.
The biggest driver of the outperformance was natural gas, it had an outstanding quarter and year.
our Pro, our project backlog has increased by approximately 650 million to 10 billion dollars,
Speaker #3: For the quarter, adjusted EBITDA was up 10% compared to the fourth quarter of last year, and adjusted EPS grew 22%. Those are big numbers for a stable midstream business like ours.
we added a little over 900 million in new projects which was offset by 265 million of projects placed in service.
Speaker #3: The biggest driver of the outperformance was natural gas. It had an outstanding quarter and year. Our project backlog has increased by approximately $650 million to $10 billion.
the most 2 significant additions are Florida, gas transmission, projects, both supported by long-term Shepherd contracts,
our backlog multiple remains below 6 times, which will drive very nice growth over the next few years.
Speaker #3: We added a little over $900 million in new projects, which was offset by $265 million of projects placed in service. The two most significant additions are Florida Gas Transmission projects, both supported by long-term shipper contracts.
In addition we're working on greater than 10 billion dollars in Project opportunities, beyond the backlog.
While we won't be successful on all of those, it gives you a sense of the tremendous Market opportunity.
And we believe we will continue to find attractive opportunities for years to come.
Speaker #3: Our backlog multiple remains below six times, which will drive very nice growth over the next few years. In addition, we're working on greater than $10 billion in project opportunities beyond the backlog.
Operator: In addition, we're working on greater than $10 billion in project opportunities beyond the backlog. While we won't be successful on all of those, it gives you a sense of the tremendous market opportunity. We believe we will continue to find attractive opportunities for years to come. Wood Mackenzie currently projects the US natural gas market will continue to grow over the longer term, with an incremental 20 Bcf a day of demand growth between 2030 and 2035. Now, a quick update on our three largest projects: MSX, South System 4, and Trident. We started construction on Trident last week. And for MSX and South System 4, we received our FERC scheduling order. The FERC anticipates issuing our final certificate by 31 July, which is a schedule we requested but ahead of our original expectation.
Would not currently projects the US natural gas market will continue to grow over the longer term with an incremental 20 BCF a day of demand growth between 202030 and 2035.
Speaker #3: While we won't be successful on all of those, it gives you a sense of the tremendous market opportunity. And we believe we will continue to find attractive opportunities for years to come.
projects, MSX spell system for and try to
You started construction on Trident last week and for MSX and South system 4, we received our first scheduling order.
Speaker #3: Wouldn't that currently project the U.S. natural gas market will continue to grow over the longer term, with an incremental 20 Bcf a day of demand growth between 2030 and 2035?
The ferc anticipates issuing our final certificate by July 31st which is a schedule we requested. But ahead of our original expectation.
Speaker #3: Now, a quick update on our three largest projects: MSX, Bell System IV, and Trident. We started construction on Trident last week. And for MSX and Bell System IV, we received our first scheduling order.
There's still a lot of work ahead but all 3 projects are on budget and on or ahead of schedule.
another positive last week S&P upgraded KMI to Triple B plus
that shows our balance sheet sheet is in great shape.
Speaker #3: The first anticipates issuing our final certificate by July 31, which is a schedule we requested but ahead of our original expectation. There's still a lot of work ahead, but all three projects are on budget, and on or ahead of schedule.
On the management front, I want to take a moment to recognize Tom Martin who will retire at the end of this month for his wise counsel and the value. He has helped deliver to our shareholders. Over his 23 years with the company.
Operator: There's still a lot of work ahead, but all three projects are on budget and on or ahead of schedule. Another positive: last week, S&P upgraded KMI to BBB Plus. That shows our balance sheet is in great shape. On the management front, I want to take a moment to recognize Tom Martin, who will retire at the end of this month for his wise counsel and the value he has helped deliver to our shareholders over his 23 years with the company. As we have previously announced, Tom will continue to serve as an advisor to the OTC and the board, so we'll continue to benefit from his perspective. We're excited to have Dax, who many of you know from his long tenure at the company, step into the president's role. I'm looking forward to working with him closely as we continue to execute on our strategy.
Speaker #3: Another positive: last week, S&P upgraded KMI to BBB+. That shows our balance sheet is in great shape. On the management front, I want to take a moment to recognize Tom Martin, who will retire at the end of this month, for his wise counsel and the value he has helped deliver to our shareholders over his 23 years with the company.
As we have previously announced, Tom will continue to serve as an adviser to the OTC, and the board. So we'll continue to benefit from his perspective.
We're excited to have Dax who many of you know from his long tenure at the company step into the president's role?
I'm looking forward to working with him closely as we continue to execute on our strategy.
Speaker #3: As we have previously announced, Tom will continue to serve as an advisor to the OTC and the board, so we'll continue to benefit from his perspective.
To sum it up. We had a great order and Year. We're, we also strengthened our balance sheet and advanced key projects with a 10 billion dollar backlog and tremendous potential beyond that. We're set up for a very exciting future with that. I'll turn it over to David.
Speaker #3: We're excited to have Dax, who many of you know from his long tenure at the company, step into the president's role. I'm looking forward to working with him closely as we continue to execute on our strategy.
Um,
Appreciate. Uh,
Speaker #3: To sum it up, we had a great quarter and year. We also strengthened our balance sheet and advanced key projects. With a $10 billion backlog and tremendous potential beyond that, we're set up for a very exciting future.
Operator: To sum it up, we had a great quarter and year. We also strengthened our balance sheet and advanced key projects. With a $10 billion backlog and tremendous potential beyond that, we're set up for a very exciting future. With that, I'll turn it over to David. Oh, Tom. Thanks, Kim. I appreciate the kind words. Starting with the natural gas business unit, transport volumes were up 9% in the quarter versus the Q4 of 2024, primarily due to increased LNG feed gas deliveries on Tennessee Gas Pipeline. For the full year, transport volumes were up 5% over 2024. Natural gas gathering volumes were up 19% in the quarter from the Q4 of 2024 across all of our G&P assets, with the largest impact being from our Haynesville system. Sequentially, total gathering volumes were up 9%, and the full year 2025 gathering volumes were up 4% versus 2024.
starting with the natural gas, business unit transport volumes were up 9% in the quarter, versus the fourth quarter of 2024,
Primarily due to increase, LG feed, gas deliveries on Tennessee gas pipeline.
The full year transport volumes were up 5% over 2024.
Speaker #3: And with that, I'll turn it over to David. Tom, one
Speaker #4: oh, Tom. Thanks, Kim.
Speaker #4: I appreciate Tom's words. Starting with the Natural Gas business unit, transport volumes were up 9% in the quarter versus the fourth quarter of 2024, primarily due to increased LNG feed gas deliveries on Tennessee Gas Pipeline.
Natural gas Gathering volumes were up 19% in the quarter from the fourth quarter of 2024 across all of our GNP assets, but the largest impact being from our hanesville system.
Essentially total Gathering volumes are up 9% and the full year, 2025 Gathering volumes were up 4% versus 2024.
Speaker #4: For the full year, transport volumes were up 5% over 2024. Natural gas gathering volumes were up 19% in the quarter from the fourth quarter of 2024, across all of our GNP assets, with the largest impact being from our Haynesville system.
We experienced this a significant ramp up from our producer customers during the quarter to meet the growing LNG demand our hanesville gathering system. For example, sent a daily, throughput record of 1.97 BCF a day on December 24th.
Speaker #4: Now, sequentially, total gathering volumes were up 9% in the full year 2025. Gathering volumes were up 4% versus 2024. We experienced a significant ramp-up from our producer customers during the quarter to meet the growing LNG demand.
Looking forward, we continue to see significant incremental project opportunities, across our natural gas pipeline Network. For example, we are in various stages of development to potentially serve
Operator: We experienced a significant ramp-up from our producer customers during the quarter to meet the growing LNG demand. Our Haynesville gathering system, for example, sent a daily throughput record of 1.97 Bcf/d on 24 December. Looking forward, we continue to see significant incremental project opportunities across our natural gas pipeline network. For example, we are in various stages of development to potentially serve more than 10 Bcf/d of natural gas demand in the power generation sector. In our product pipeline segment, refined product volumes were down 2% in the quarter compared to the Q4 of 2024. For the full year 2025, refined product volumes were about equal to 24. Crude and condensate volumes were down 8% in the quarter compared to the Q4 of 2024.
More than 10 BCF a day of natural gas demand in the power generation sector.
Speaker #4: Our Haynesville gathering system, for example, set a daily throughput record of 1.97 Bcf per day on December 24th. Looking forward, we continue to see significant incremental project opportunities across our natural gas pipeline network.
Segment.
Find products lines are down 2% in the quarter, compared to the fourth quarter 2024.
Speaker #4: For example, we are in various stages of development to potentially serve more than 10 Bcf a day of natural gas demand in the power generation sector.
Speaker #4: In our product pipeline segment, we found product volumes were down 2% in the quarter compared to the fourth quarter of 2024. For the full year 2025, we found product volumes were about equal to 2024.
But the full year 2025 refined products fly into about equal to 24, crud and condensate volumes are down 8% in the quarter. Compared to the fourth quarter of 2024. More than all of that decline is driven by taking Double H, out of service for the NGL conversion project early in the third quarter of 2025, excluding Double H volumes, and both periods. Recruiting condensate volumes were up 6% in the quarter, compared to the fourth quarter of 24,
Speaker #4: Crude and condensate volumes were down 8% in the quarter compared to the fourth quarter of 2024. More than all of that decline is driven by taking Double H out of service for the NGL conversion project early in the third quarter of 2025.
On January 16th 2026, Cami and Philip 66 announced the start of the second open season on their proposed Western Gateway pipeline system.
Operator: More than all of that decline is driven by taking HH out of service for the NGL conversion project early in the Q3 2025. Excluding HH volumes in both periods, crude and condensate volumes were up 6% in the quarter compared to the Q4 2024. On 16 January 2026, KMI and Phillips 66 announced the start of a second open season on their proposed Western Gateway Pipeline System. The Western Gateway Pipeline will connect Midwest and other refinery supply to Phoenix and to California with connectivity to Las Vegas, Nevada via KMI's Calnev pipeline. The second open season, which concludes on 31 March 2026, is for the remaining pipeline capacity and adds new access to the Los Angeles market via a joint tariff supported by the planned reversal of one of KMI's existing SFPP lines between Watson and Colton, California.
Speaker #4: Excluding Double H volumes in both periods, crude and condensate volumes were up 6% in the quarter compared to the fourth quarter of '24. On January 16, 2026, KMI and Phillips 66 announced the start of a second open season on their proposed Western Gateway pipeline system.
The Western Gateway pipeline will connect Midwest, and other refined Arielle Refinery Supply, to Phoenix, and the California with conductivity, the Las Vegas, Nevada via kmi's count that pipeline.
Speaker #4: The Western Gateway pipeline will connect Midwest and other refinery supply to Phoenix and to California, with connectivity to Las Vegas, Nevada, via KMI's CalNet pipeline.
The second Open Season which concludes on March 31, 2026 is for the remaining pipeline capacity and adds new access to the Los Angeles market via a joint tariff supported by the plan, reversal of 1 of kmi's, existing sfpp lines, between Watson and Colton, California.
Speaker #4: The second open season, which concludes on March 31, 2026, is for the remaining pipeline capacity and adds new access to the Los Angeles market via a joint tariff supported by the planned reversal of one of KMI's existing SFPP lines between Watson and Colton, California.
In addition to expanding the offer destinations the second. Open Season adds additional origin points to enable Supply diversification.
And optionality for our customers.
We believe this project provides an attractive Supply alternative for markets in Arizona. And
Speaker #4: In addition to expanding the offered destinations, the second open season adds additional origin points to enable supply diversification and optionality for our customers. We believe this project provides an attractive supply alternative for markets in Arizona and California.
Operator: In addition to expanding the offered destinations, the second open season adds additional origin points to enable supply diversification and optionality for our customers. We believe this project provides an attractive supply alternative for markets in Arizona and California. In our terminals business segment, our liquid lease capacity remains high at 93%. Market conditions continue to remain supportive of strong rates, and the utilization of tanks available for use is 99% at our key hubs on the Houston Ship Channel and at Carteret, New Jersey. Our Jones Act tanker fleet remains exceptionally well contracted, assuming likely options are exercised. Our fleet is 100% leased through 2026, 97% leased through 2027, and 80% leased through 2028. We have opportunistically chartered a significant percentage of our fleet at higher market rates and have an average length of firm contract commitments of more than three years.
In in our terminals, business segments, or liquids lease capacity remains high at 93% market conditions, continue to remain supportive of a strong.
and the utilization of tanks available for use is 99%,
Jersey.
Speaker #4: In our terminals business segment, our liquid lease capacity remains high at 93%. Market conditions continue to remain supportive of strong rates, and the utilization of tanks available for use is 99% at our key hubs on the Houston Ship Channel and at Carter in New Jersey.
Our Jones act tanker Fleet remains exceptionally well contracted assuming likely options are exercised. Our Fleet is 100% least through 2026.
97% least through 2027.
And 80% least through 2028.
We have opportunistically chartered.
A significant percentage of our Fleet at higher Market rates.
And average have an average length of firm contract, commitments of more than 3 years.
Speaker #4: Our drone deck tanker fleet remains exceptionally well contracted. Assuming likely options are exercised, our fleet is 100% leased through 2026, 97% leased through 2027, and 80% leased through 2028.
The CO2 segment experienced 1% lower oil production, volumes 2%, lower NGL volumes of 2%, lower CO2 volumes in the quarter, versus the fourth quarter of 2024.
Speaker #4: We have opportunistically chartered a significant percentage of our fleet at higher market rates and on average have an average length of firm contract commitments of more years.
Speaker #4: We have opportunistically chartered a significant percentage of our fleet at higher market rates and, on average, have an average length of firm contract commitments of more than three years. The CO2 segment experienced 1% lower oil production volumes, 2% lower NGL volumes, and 2% lower CO2 volumes in the quarter versus the fourth quarter of 2024.
The full year, 2025 all volumes are about 2% below 24, but finished strong in the quarter to be slightly above our plan for the year.
For that, I'll turn it over to David. Thank you, Tom.
Operator: The CO2 segment experienced 1% lower oil production volumes, 2% lower NGL volumes, and 2% lower CO2 volumes in the Q4 versus the Q4 of 2024. For the full year 2025, oil volumes are about 2% below 2024, but finished strong in the quarter to be slightly above our plan for the year. With that, I'll turn it over to David. Thank you, Tom. For the quarter, we're declaring a quarterly dividend of $0.2925 per share, which is $1.17 per share annualized, up 2% from 2024. For the Q4, we generated net income attributable to KMI of $996 million and EPS of $0.45, 49% and 50% above the Q4 of 2024. This quarter's results included a gain on an asset sale, which we treat as a certain item. Excluding certain items, our adjusted net income and adjusted EPS still grew very nicely, both 22% above the Q4 of 2024.
Order. We're declaring a quarterly dividend of 29.25 cents per share, which is a $1.17 per share, annualized up 2% from 2024
Speaker #4: For the full year 2025, oil volumes are about 2% below '24. They finished strong in the quarter to be slightly above our plan for the year.
for the fourth quarter, we generated net income attributable, to KMI of 996 million and EPS of 45 cents.
Speaker #4: With that, I'll turn it over to David.
49% and 50% above the fourth quarter of 2024.
Speaker #3: All right. Thank you, Tom. This quarter, we're declaring a quarterly dividend of 29.25 cents per share, which is $1.17 per share annualized, up 2% from 2024.
This quarter's results included a gain on an asset sale, which we treat as a certain item.
excluding certain items are adjusted, net income and adjusted EPS, still grew, very nicely, both 22% of above the fourth quarter of 2024,
Speaker #3: For the fourth quarter, we generated net income attributable to KMI of $996 million and EPS of $0.45; 49% and 50% above the fourth quarter of 2024.
Our growth was driven by newly placed in service natural gas expansion projects uh contributions from our Outrigger acquisition and continued strong demand for natural, gas transport storage and related services.
Speaker #3: This quarter's results included a gain on an asset sale, which we treat as a certain item. Excluding certain items, our adjusted net income and adjusted EPS still grew very nicely, both 22% above the fourth quarter of 2024.
For the full year 2025. We beat our budget by more than the contributions from our Outrigger acquisition.
Outperformance came from our natural gas business driven by greater value on transport, capacity and ancillary services.
Speaker #3: Our growth was driven by newly placed-in-service natural gas expansion projects, contributions from our Outrigger acquisition, and continued strong demand for natural gas transport, storage, and related services.
Operator: Our growth was driven by newly placed in service natural gas expansion projects, contributions from our Outrigger acquisition, and continued strong demand for natural gas transport, storage, and related services. For the full year 2025, we beat our budget by more than the contributions from our Outrigger acquisition. Outperformance came from our natural gas business, driven by greater value on transport capacity and ancillary services. Our terminals segment also generated better than budgeted contributions. We budgeted to grow Adjusted EBITDA by 4% and Adjusted EPS by 10% from 2024. We actually grew Adjusted EBITDA by 6% and Adjusted EPS by 13%. Our 2025 EBITDA and net income were all-time record levels for Kinder Morgan. Moving on to the balance sheet, as we continue to grow our cash flows and take a disciplined approach to capital allocation, our balance sheet continues to strengthen.
Our terminals segment also generate better than budgeted contributions.
Speaker #3: For the full year 2025, we beat our budget by more than the contributions from our Outrigger acquisition. Outperformance came from our natural gas business, driven by greater value on transport capacity and ancillary services.
We budgeted to grow adjusted EA by 4% and adjusted EPS by 10% from 2024. We actually grew adjusted Eva de by 6% and adjusted EPS by 13% our 2025 Eva and net income were all-time record levels for Kinder Morgan.
Speaker #3: Our Terminals segment also generated better-than-budgeted contributions. We budgeted to grow adjusted EBITDA by 4% and adjusted EPS by 10% from 2024. We actually grew adjusted EBITDA by 6% and adjusted EPS by 13%.
Let's go to the balance sheet as we continue to grow our cash flows and take a disciplined approach to Capital. Allocation, our balance sheet continues to strengthen our net debt to adjusted Eva dial ratio improved to 3.8 times down from 3.9 times last quarter and down from 4.1 times. At the end of the first quarter, which was immediately following the acquisition of Outrigger
Speaker #3: Our 2025 EBITDA and net income were all-time record levels for Kinder Morgan. Moving on to the balance sheet, as we continue to grow our cash flows and take a disciplined approach to capital allocation, our balance sheet continues to strengthen.
Since the end of 2024, our net debt is decreased $9 million uh despite nearly 3 billion of total investments in growth projects and and the acquisition.
So we'll go through a high level reconciliation.
Speaker #3: Our net debt to adjusted EBITDA ratio improved to 3.8 times, down from 3.9 times last quarter and down from 4.1 times at the end of the first quarter, which was immediately following the acquisition of Outrigger.
Operator: Our net debt-to-Adjusted EBITDA ratio improved to 3.8x, down from 3.9x last quarter and down from 4.1x at the end of the first quarter, which was immediately following the acquisition of Outrigger. Since the end of 2024, our net debt has decreased $9 million, despite nearly $3 billion of total investments in growth projects and the acquisition. So we'll go through a high-level reconciliation. We generated cash flow from operations of $5.92 billion. We've spent $2.6 billion in dividends. We invested $3.15 billion in total CapEx, including growth, sustaining, and contributions to joint ventures. We spent approximately $650 million on the Outrigger acquisition. We've received $380 million on divestitures, primarily the Eagle Hawk sale. And then we had all other items, a source of cash of about $100 million. That gets you close to the $9 million decrease in net debt for the year.
We generated cash flow from operations of 5.92 billion. We've spent 2 point or we spent 2.6 billion in dividends
We invested 3.15 billion dollars in total capex, including growth sustaining and our contributions to joint ventures.
Speaker #3: Since the end of 2024, our net debt has decreased $9 million despite nearly $3 billion of total investments and growth projects, and the acquisition.
Speaker #3: So, we'll go through a high-level reconciliation: we generated cash flow from operations of $5.92 billion; we spent $2.6 billion in dividends; we invested $3.15 billion in total CapEx, including growth, sustaining, and contributions to joint ventures; we spent approximately $650 million on the Outrigger acquisition; we received $380 million from divestitures, primarily the EagleHawk sale; and then we had all other items, a source of cash of about $100 million.
We spent approximately 650 million dollars on the a Outrigger acquisition. We've received, uh, 380 million on devest primarily the eaglehawk sale.
Uh and then we had all other items that source of cash of about a hundred million dollars. Might get you close to the 9 million dollar decrease in net debt for the year.
The rating agencies have recognized or strengthened financial profile last week, S&P upgraded us to Triple B, uh, positive.
Fitch upgraded us to Triple B plus during the summer of 2025 and we're on, positive outlook by Moody's.
Speaker #3: That gets you close to the $9 million decrease in net debt for the year. The rating agencies have recognized our strengthened financial profile. Last week, S&P upgraded us to triple B positive. Fitch upgraded us to triple B plus during the summer of 2025, and we're on positive outlook by Moody's.
Operator: The rating agencies have recognized our strengthened financial profile. Last week, S&P upgraded us to BBB Positive. Fitch upgraded us to BBB Plus during the summer of 2025, and we're on positive outlook by Moody's. So, as has already been mentioned, but I'll mention it again, 2025 was an exceptionally strong year, a record-setting year, in fact. We beat our budget and delivered double-digit earnings growth. We grew our backlog from $8.1 billion to $10.0 billion despite placing $1.8 billion of projects into service, meaning we added $3.7 billion of projects to the backlog during the year. We improved our balance sheet. We achieved credit rating upgrades and expect meaningful cash flow benefits from tax reform, which will generate additional investment capacity. We have very positive momentum heading into 2026. And with that, I'll turn it back to Kim. Okay, Michels, if you'll come back on and we'll take questions.
So, as uh, as has already been mentioned, but I'll mention it again. 2025 was an exceptionally strong year, a record setting year. In fact, we beat our budget and delivered double-digit earnings growth. We grew our backlog from 8.1 billion to 10.0 billion. Despite placing 1.8 billion dollars of projects into service, meaning we added 3.7 billion dollars of projects to the backlog during the year.
Speaker #3: So as has already been mentioned, but I'll mention it again, 2025 was an exceptionally strong year—a record-setting year, in fact. We beat our budget and delivered double-digit earnings growth. We grew our backlog from $8.1 billion to $10.0 billion, despite placing $1.8 billion of projects into service, meaning we added $3.7 billion of projects to the backlog during the year.
We improved our balance sheet, we treat achieved credit rating, upgrades and expect meaningful cash, flow benefits from tax reform, uh, which will generate additional investment capacity.
Very positive. Momentum heading into 2026.
And we'll take questions.
Speaker #3: We improved our balance sheet, achieved credit rating upgrades, and expect meaningful cash flow benefits from tax reform, which will generate additional investment capacity.
First caller is Julian, Dulan Smith with Jeffrey. Your line is open.
Speaker #3: We have very positive momentum heading into 2026. And with that,
Speaker #3: I'll turn it back to Ken.
Speaker #2: Okay, Michelle,
Speaker #2: If you'll come back on, and we'll take—
Speaker #2: questions. Thank
Speaker #4: At this time, if you would like to ask a question, you may press star, followed by the number one. To withdraw your question, you may press star, then two.
Operator: Thank you. At this time, if you would like to ask a question, you may press star, followed by the number one. To withdraw your question, you may press star two. Please unmute your phones and state your name when prompted. Our first caller is Julian Dumoulin-Smith with Jefferies. Your line is open. Hey, good afternoon, team. Thank you guys very much for the time. Appreciate it. Look, if I can kick it off more on the data center front, you guys talk about the 70% number with respect to where you have exposure and aligned with data center opportunities. Can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing actively on the front? Obviously, we saw the FGT announcement here. Perhaps that speaks to that a little bit.
Speaker #4: Please unmute your phones and state your name when prompted. Our first caller is Julian Dumoulin-Smith with Jefferies. Your line is open.
Hey, good afternoon, team. Thank you guys very much for the time. Appreciate it. Look, if I can kick it off, more on the data center Front. You, you guys talked about the 70% number with respect to where you have exposure and and aligned with data center, please, can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing actively on the front. Obviously we saw the fgc announcement here perhaps that speaks to that a little bit. But how do you think about that regionally in terms of further data points? We should be seeing through the course of the year and I've got a quick follow up.
Speaker #4: open. Hey, good
Speaker #5: Afternoon, team. Thank you guys very much for the time—appreciate it. Look, if I can kick it off more on the data center front, you guys talk about the 70% number with respect to where you have exposure and are aligned with data center opportunities.
um, I'm not exactly sure about the the 70% but um, if you look at our 10 billion dollar backlog about 60% of our backlog,
Speaker #5: Can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing actively on the front? Obviously, we saw the FGT announcement here; perhaps that speaks to that a little bit.
Speaker #5: But how do you think about that regionally, in terms of further data points we should be seeing through the course of the year? And I've got a quick follow-up.
Operator: But how do you think about that regionally in terms of further data points we should be seeing through the course of the year? And I've got a quick follow-up. Okay. I'm not exactly sure about the 70%, but if you look at our $10 billion backlog, about 60% of our backlog is associated with power projects. That's not just data center. That's anything associated with power. And if you think about the opportunities on the power side, I think a great example is if you look in the state of Georgia, where Georgia Power recently, I think the end of November, filed a revised IRP, and they're projecting 53 gigawatts of power demand between now and the early 2030s. And so, from a gas perspective, if that was 100% gas, that would be like 10 Bcf/d, roughly, depending on the conversion metrics you use.
Speaker #2: Okay. I'm not exactly sure about the 70%, but if you look at our $10 billion backlog, about 60% of our backlog is associated with power projects.
Um, is associated with power projects? That's not just data center. That's, you know, if anything Associated, uh, with, uh, with power. Um, and if you think about, um, the opportunities on the power side, um, you know, I think, uh, a great example is if you look in the state of Georgia, um, where, you know, uh, Georgia Power, uh, recently, I think the end of November filed, uh,
Speaker #2: That's not just data centers; that's anything associated with power. And if you think about the opportunities on the power side, I think a great example is if you look in the state of Georgia, where Georgia Power recently—I think at the end of November—filed a revised IRP, and they're projecting 53 gigawatts of power demand between now and the early 2030s.
As uh, IRP and they're projecting uh 53. Uh gigawatts of power demand between now and the early 2030s. And so from a gas perspective, if that was 100% gas, you know, that would be like 10 BCF a day roughly um depending on the conversion, metrics you use and
Speaker #2: And so, from a gas perspective, if that was 100% gas, that would be like 10 Bcf a day, roughly, depending on the conversion metrics you use.
Speaker #2: And we expect that a significant portion of that will be gas. And that's just one utility in one state. And so what we're seeing across our network, whether that's in Georgia or South Carolina or Louisiana or Arkansas or Texas or New Mexico, Colorado, I mean, we are seeing similar stories just across our network.
Operator: We expect that a significant portion of that will be gas. That's just one utility in one state. What we're seeing across our network, whether that's in Georgia or South Carolina or Louisiana or Arkansas or Texas or New Mexico or Colorado, I mean, we are seeing similar stories just across our network. The other thing is, you look at power demand; we've got a higher power demand growth between 2025 and 2030. Wood Mac has, in their most recent estimates, increased theirs. If you look at Wood Mac between 2030 and 2035, they think the power growth, at least in their projections, is greater between 2030 and 2035 than it is in their projections between 25 and 30. This is something that is driving a significant amount of projects.
Speaker #2: And the other thing is, you look at power demand—we've got a higher power demand growth between 2025 and 2030. Wood Mackenzie, in their most recent estimates, has increased theirs.
You know, we expect that a significant portion of that will be gassed. And that's just 1 utility and 1 State. And so, you know what, we're seeing across our Network, whether that's in Georgia, or South Carolina, or Louisiana or Arkansas, or Texas, or New Mexico Colorado. I mean, we are seeing similar stories just across our Network. Um, and, you know, the other thing is you look at, um, Power demand. We've got a higher, uh, Power demand growth between, uh, 2025 and 2030 would. Mac has re, you know, and their most recent estimates increase theirs. And if you look at would Mac between 2030 and 2035, they think the power growth at least in their projections is greater between 2030 and 2035 than it is in their projections between 25 and 30. So you know this is something um that you know is driving significant amount of of projects. It's uh also
Speaker #2: And if you look at WoodMac between 2030 and 2035, they think the power growth, at least in their projections, is greater between 2030 and 2035 than it is in their projections between 2025 and 2030.
You know, a significant driver of the potential opportunities that we have, and we think will last uh you know, for a decade.
Speaker #2: So this is something that is driving a significant amount of projects. It's also a significant driver of the potential opportunities that we have, and we think it will last for a decade.
Excellent. If I can just firm up a little bit more on the ssc5 setup and timing, what are you looking to move forward on that? How are you doing about timing? And then even more specifically if you could speak to, are you think about this as being a compression first or looping kind of project initially? And and what level of sine utility load would unlock a more formal filing?
Operator: It's also a significant driver of the potential opportunities that we have, and we think will last for a decade. Excellent. If I can just firm up a little bit more on the SSE 5 setup and timing, what are you looking to move forward on that? How are you thinking about timing? And then even more specifically, if you could speak to, are you thinking about this as being a compression-first or looping kind of project initially, and what level of signed utility load would unlock a more formal filing? Yeah, Julian, this is Sze. So look, in terms of timing, we see strong interest in the Southeast, and we continue to work with the customer base. In terms of what the final scope looks like, that all depends on final subscription. I do see it more than just compression. I think there could be some more brownfield looping.
Speaker #5: Excellent. If I can just firm up a little bit more on the SSE 5 setup and timing, what are you looking to move forward on that?
Speaker #5: How are you thinking about timing? And then, even more specifically, if you could speak to—are you thinking about this as being a compression-first or looping kind of project initially?
Uh yeah, Julian. This is so uh so look in terms of timing. We we you know, we we see strong interest in the Southeast and we continue to work with the customer base in terms of what the the final scope look like. Looks like that. All depends on Final subscription. I do see I do see it more than just you know compression I think there could be some more Brownfield looping.
Speaker #5: And what level of signed utility load would unlock a more formal—
Speaker #5: filing? Yeah, Julian, this is
Speaker #6: Cecil. So, look, in terms of timing, we see strong interest in the Southeast, and we continue to work with the customer base. In terms of what the final scope looks like, that all depends on final subscription.
Once again, it's early, uh, we're we're working through the, the demand Dynamics with our customer base. Uh, we do see opportunity there and, uh, you know, it is, it is competitive. So, uh, we will continue to, you know,
report as we go along. But ultimately, uh,
Sign deals with drives, the, the announcement.
Speaker #6: I do see it more than just compression. I think there could be some more brownfield looping. But once again, it's early. We're working through the demand dynamics with our customer base.
Excellent. Thank you guys stay warm this weekend.
Thank you.
Operator: But once again, it's early. We're working through the demand dynamics with our customer base. We do see opportunity there, and it is competitive. So we will continue to report as we go along, but ultimately, the signed deal is what drives the announcement. Excellent. Thank you, guys. Stay warm this weekend. Thank you. Thank you. Our next caller is Jackie Kalledis with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open. Hi. Thank you so much for the time this evening. First, I just wanted to start on the next steps on the Western Gateway following the second open season launched last week. How do you think about allocating capital towards this project versus natural gas opportunity set, and how do those returns compare? Yeah. I mean, on every project, we look at based on risk and return.
Thank you. Our next caller is Jackie ketus. With Goldman Sachs your line is open.
Speaker #6: We do see opportunity there, and it is competitive. So we will continue to report as we go along, but ultimately, the signed deal is what drives the results.
Speaker #6: announcement.
Hi, thank you so much for the time this evening. Um, first just wanted to start on, you know, the next steps. On the western Gateway following the second Open Season launch last week. You know, how do you think about allocating Capital towards this project versus natural gas opportunity, set and how do those returns compared?
Speaker #5: Excellent. Thank you
Speaker #5: guys. Stay warm this
Speaker #5: weekend. Thank you.
Speaker #4: Thank you. Our next caller is Jackie Coletes with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Speaker #7: Hi, thank you so much for the time this evening. First, just wanted to start on the next steps on the Western Gateway following the second open season, launched last week.
Speaker #7: How do you think about allocating capital towards this project versus the natural gas opportunity set? And how do those returns compare?
Speaker #2: Yeah. I mean, on every project, we look at it based on risk and return. And so I think we have a middle-of-the-road return that we expect, and then we vary off that based on the stability, the duration, and the creditworthiness of the cash flows.
Operator: And so I think we have a middle-of-the-road return that we expect, and then we vary off that based on the stability, the duration, and the creditworthiness of the cash flows. And so if you've got stronger creditworthy parties and longer cash flows and take-or-pay, then you come off that return down from that return a little bit. And if you have those things are less, then you go above that return. All these returns are significantly above our cost of capital. And so I think if we proceed on Western Gateway, we will have long-term shipper contracts there, and I expect those shipper contracts will be largely from creditworthy counterparties. And if not, we would have some credit support. So we don't, at this point, have limited capital. I think we can easily fund this project and do all the natural gas projects that we're talking about.
Speaker #2: And so it's—you've got stronger, creditworthy parties and longer cash flows, and take or pay. Then you come off that return, down from that return a little bit.
Speaker #2: And if you have those things, or less, then you go above that return. All these returns are significantly above our cost of capital. And so, I think if we proceed on Western Gateway, we will have long-term shipper contracts there.
Speaker #2: And I expect those shipper contracts will be largely from creditworthy counterparties. And if not, we would have some credit support. So we don't, at this point, have limited capital.
Speaker #2: I think we can easily fund this project and do all the natural gas projects that we're talking about. Another point I'd point out on Western Gateway, which is, we are contributing assets to that.
Gateway. We will have long-term separate contracts there, and I expect the shipper contracts will be, uh, largely from creditworthy counterparties and if not, um, you know, we would have some credit support. So, um, I we don't at this point have, uh, you know, limited capital. I think, you know, we can uh, easily fund this project, um, and do all the natural gas projects that we're talking about another point. I I'd point out on Western Gateway, which is, we are contributing assets, um, to that and so our cash contribution, you know, will be less than, uh, you know, we're going to we're setting up a 50/50 joint venture with, uh, with p66. It would be less than half of the, uh, cost of the overall project because we're contributing value for, uh, contributing assets for part of our, uh, contribution.
Operator: Another point I'd point out on Western Gateway, which is we are contributing assets to that. And so our cash contribution will be less than we're setting up a 50/50 joint venture with P66. It would be less than half of the cost of the overall project because we're contributing value for contributing assets for part of our contribution. Got it. That's helpful. And then just as a follow-up, leverage ended around 3.8 times in the quarter. How do you think about maintaining leverage levels towards the midpoint of your long-term guide of 3.5 to 4.5 range versus leveraging up towards that high end if there are multiple CapEx opportunities? Well, I'd say right now, what we've said is we're going to spend about $3 billion per year in CapEx.
Got to know, it's helpful. And then just
Speaker #2: And so, our cash contribution will be less than—we're going to—we're setting up a 50/50 joint venture with P66, so it would be less than half of the cost of the overall project.
As a follow-up. Um, you know, leverage ended around by 3.8 times in the quarter. You know, how do you think about maintaining leverage levels towards the midpoint of your long term guy of 3.5 to 4 and a half range versus, you know, leveraging up towards that high end? If there are multiple capex opportunities?
Speaker #2: Because we're contributing value for contributing assets for part of our—
Speaker #7: Got it. That's helpful. And then just as a follow-up, leverage ended around 3.8 times in the quarter. How do you think about maintaining leverage levels toward the midpoint of your long-term guide of 3.5 to 4.5 times versus leveraging up toward that high end, if there are multiple CapEx projects?
Speaker #7: opportunities? Well, I'd say
Speaker #2: Right now, what we've said is we're going to spend about $3 billion per year in CapEx. Now, that won't be a perfect round $3 billion.
Operator: Now, that won't be a perfect round $3 billion because you just have timing to spend, but roughly $3 billion a year. We have the ability to fund that 100% out of cash flow. The other thing I'd point out is that as our $10 billion backlog of projects come online, that our debt to EBITDA actually declines over time. So that creates more balance sheet capacity. For every 0.1x leverage, that's $850 million of capacity. I think we've got a ton of capacity even without leveraging up closer to the 4.5x. I don't think we have intention of getting close to that level. I think we've got plenty of capacity to accommodate the opportunities that we see out there. Great. Thank you so much for the time. Thank you. Our next caller is Teresa Chen with Barclays.
Speaker #2: Because you just have timing of spend, but roughly $3 billion a year. And we have the ability to fund that 100% out of cash flow.
Speaker #2: The other thing I’d point out is that as our $10 billion backlog of projects comes online, our debt-to-EBITDA actually declines over time. And so that creates more balance sheet capacity.
Well, I'd say the, you know, right now what we've said is we're going to spend uh, about 3 billion dollars per year in in capex, now, that won't be a perfect round 3 billion dollars, you know, because you just have timing a spin, but roughly 3 billion dollars a year and we have the ability to, to fund that, you know, 100% out of cash flow. The other thing I'd point out is that, um, as our, uh, 10 billion dollar backlog of projects, come online that our debt to Eva actually declines over time. Um, and so that creates more balance sheet capacity. So, for every Point 1 time of, uh, of Leverage, um, that's 850 million dollars of capacity. So I think we've got a ton of capacity even without leveraging up, uh, closer to the 4 and a half times. Um, and I don't think, you know, I don't think we have intention of of getting close to that level. Um, so I think we've got uh,
Speaker #2: So for every 0.1x of leverage, that's $850 million of capacity. So I think we've got a ton of capacity even without leveraging up closer to the 4.5x.
20 of of capacities, accommodate the opportunities that we see out there.
Great, thank you so much for your time.
Thank you. Our next caller is Teresa Chen with Berkeley's. Your line is open.
Speaker #2: And I don't think—we don't think we have intention of getting close to that level. So I think we've got plenty of capacity to accommodate the opportunities that we see out there.
Speaker #7: Great. Thank you so much for the—
Speaker #7: time. Thank you.
Speaker #4: Our next caller is Teresa Chen with Barclays. Your line is open.
Good afternoon. Uh Kim hear you loud and clear on the less than 50% of capital contribution on Western Gateway because you're contributing sfpp. Um when we think about the net IBA dot impact, uh to kinder, I'm assuming this project moves forward, how should we quantify the displacement of existing sfpp, EBA how much is that contributing currently?
Operator: Your line is open. Good afternoon. Kim, hear you loud and clear on the less than 50% of capital contribution on Western Gateway because you're contributing SFPP. When we think about the net EBITDA impact to Kinder, and I'm assuming this project moves forward, how should we quantify the displacement of existing SFPP EBITDA? How much is that contributing currently? Well, I think two things. One, Teresa, I think we're really early. And so we've got to get through the open season. We've got negotiations to do with our partner on the specifics. And so I think we've got to finalize costs, etc. So I think it's too early to go through that at this point. Understood.
Speaker #8: Good afternoon. Kim, hear you loud and clear on the less than 50% capital contribution on Western Gateway because you're contributing SFPP. When we think about the net EBITDA impact to Kinder, and I'm assuming this project moves forward, how should we quantify the displacement of existing SFPP EBITDA?
Well I think the 2 things 1 3, so I think we're really early. Um and so you know we've got to get through the Open Season, we've got negotiations to to do with our partner on the on the specifics so I think and uh so I think it you know we've got to finalize costs Etc. So I think it's I think it's too early to go through that at this point.
Speaker #8: How much is that contributing currently?
Speaker #2: Well, I think two things. One, Teresa, I think we're really early. And so we've got to get through the open season. We've got negotiations to do with our partner on the specifics.
Speaker #2: So I think—and so, I think—we've got to finalize costs, etc. So I think it's too early to go through that at this point.
Understood, um, maybe turning to a different portion of your liquids business. Could you provide an update on the progress of the Double H conversion? And in light of recent Upstream developments in the Balkan and the increasingly challenged near-term outlook for the Basin. How are you thinking about the expected? NGL, throughput. Um, and EPA dog contribution from this project.
Speaker #8: Understood. Maybe turning to a different portion of your liquids business, could you provide an update on the progress of the Double H conversion and, in light of recent upstream developments in the Bakken and the increasingly challenged near-term outlook for the basin?
Operator: Maybe turning to a different portion of your liquids business, could you provide an update on the progress of the Double H conversion and in light of recent upstream developments in the Bakken and the increasingly challenged near-term outlook for the basin? How are you thinking about the expected NGL throughput and EBITDA contribution from this project? Sure. I mean, the project's going to come on probably late Q1, early Q2. And that's phase one. And then with respect to the future phases, that's something we continue to work on. Yeah. I mean, Teresa, broadly, though, I mean, we still, given the recent pullback, it's just a matter of time. I think our initial phase is well contracted. We see the volumes behind it. These are coming from our plants. And so we have visibility there.
Sure. Um, I mean the Project's going to come on uh probably late first quarter early second quarter, um and that's Phase 1. Um, and then, you know, with respect to the Future phases, you know, that's something we continue to work on.
Speaker #8: How are you thinking about the expected NGL throughput and EBITDA contribution from this project?
Speaker #2: Sure. I mean, the project's going to come on probably late first quarter, early second quarter. And that's phase one. to the future phases, that's And then with respect something we continue to work
Yeah I mean Teresa broadly though. I mean we still you know given given the recent pullback you know it's just a matter of time. I think our initial phase is well contracted we see the volumes behind it. You know we these are coming from our plants and so we have visibility there
Speaker #2: on. Yeah.
Speaker #6: I mean, Teresa, broadly though, I mean, even with the recent pullback, it's just a matter of time. I think our initial phase is well contracted.
Speaker #6: We see the volumes behind it. These are coming from our plants, and so we have visibility there. So, I don't think, as far as Phase One's concerned—and that is probably on the earlier side—the timeframe that Kim gave you in terms of where we've come in, I think as we look to the next phase, we continue to have discussions, positive discussions, with our customers.
So, I don't think, you know, as far as phase 1's concerned and that is probably on the earlier side of, of the time frame that Kim gave you in terms of where we come in. I think, as we look to, to look to the next phase, um, you know, we continue to have discussions, positive discussions with our customers. Uh, we'll monitor the, the overall macro situation and, uh, we'll we'll make the investment decision. Accordingly, that being said, we still have, um, you know, that in front of us,
Operator: So I don't think as far as phase one's concerned, and that is probably on the earlier side of the timeframe that Kim gave you in terms of where we've come in. I think as we look to the next phase, we continue to have discussions, positive discussions with our customers. We'll monitor the overall macro situation, and we'll make the investment decision accordingly. That being said, we still have that in front of us. Right. And I think the other thing is GORs are growing in the Bakken. Fair enough. Thank you. Thank you. Our next caller is Michael Blum with Wells Fargo. Your line is open. Thanks. Good afternoon, everyone. Yeah. Maybe if I could just ask maybe a different way at the same question to some degree.
All right, and I think the other thing is, you know, go RS are growing in the Box.
Fair enough. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next caller, is Michael bloom with Wells, Fargo. Your line is open.
Speaker #6: We'll monitor the overall macro situation, and we'll make the investment decision accordingly. That being said, we still have that in front of us.
Speaker #2: Right. And I think the other thing is, GORs are growing in the—
Speaker #2: Bakken. Fair enough.
Speaker #8: Thank you.
Speaker #4: Thank you. Our next caller is Michael Bloom with Wells Fargo. Your line is open.
Speaker #4: open. Thanks.
Uh thanks. Good afternoon, everyone. Um yeah maybe if I could just um ask maybe a different way at the same question to some degree uh with with Continental resources, effectively saying they're going to stop Drilling in the back. And I wonder if you could talk about at least for now can you can you talk about how meaningful a customer? They are either your current business or where they were contemplated to be for a double aged. And if that has an impact on uh, the further expansion, thanks.
Speaker #9: Good afternoon, everyone. Yeah, maybe if I could just ask maybe a different way at the same question to some degree. With Continental Resources, effectively saying they're going to stop drilling in the Bakken, I wonder if you can talk about, at least for now, can you talk about how meaningful a customer they are, either your current business or where they were contemplated to be for double H and if that has an impact on the further expansion?
Operator: With Continental Resources effectively saying they're going to stop drilling in the Bakken, I wonder if you can talk about, at least for now, how meaningful a customer they are, either your current business or where they were contemplated to be for Double H and if that has an impact on the further expansion? Thanks. Yeah. So yeah, if you look at the EBITDA that we get from Bakken or EBITDA, it's about 3% of Kinder Morgan overall. Obviously, Continental makes up a piece of that. We don't think that there's going to be any material impact from the Continental news. We think that the impact is very manageable. That's one because it's 3% of our EBITDA, but it's also because volumes came into the year a little stronger than we were expecting.
Speaker #9: Thanks.
Speaker #2: Yeah, so yeah, if you look at the EBITDA that we get from Bakken, or EBITDA, it's about 3% of Kinder Morgan overall. Obviously, Continental makes up a piece of that.
Speaker #2: We don't think that there's going to be any material impact from the Continental news. We think that the impact is very manageable. That's one, because it's 3% of our EBITDA.
R ebda. It's about 3% of Kinder Morgan overall. Um, obviously Continental makes up a piece of that. Um, we don't think that there's uh, going to be any material impact from the Continental news. We think that um, the impact is very manageable, you know, that's 1 because it's 3% of our EV do, but it's also because volume, you know, came into the year, a little stronger than than we were expecting. And it's also because you know, they're going to continue to complete well um you know, through August and because they are just uh 1 of a number of customers. We have up there.
Speaker #2: But it's also because volumes came into the year a little stronger than we were expecting. And it's also because they're going to continue to complete wells.
Operator: It's also because they're going to continue to complete wells through August, and because they are just one of a number of customers we have up there. Okay. Great. That makes sense. Thanks for that. And then just wanted to ask, in light of the asset sale that you did here in late 2025, are there more non-core assets that you're actively looking to sell? And strategically, are there segments or areas of the business that you're more inclined to reduce your exposure to? Thanks. Okay. Yeah. Let me talk about the Eagle Hawk sale first. First of all, on that, that's not an asset that we were looking or planning to sell. Our partner approached us because they were selling at least a portion of their interest. And based on the price that we could achieve, it made sense to sell.
Speaker #2: Through August, and because they are just one of a number of customers we have up
Okay, great. That makes sense. Thanks for that. And then um, just wanted to ask in light of the asset sale that you did here in late. Uh, 2025 are there, more non-core assets that you're actively looking to sell and strategically are there segments or areas of the business that you're more inclined to reduce your exposure to thanks?
Speaker #2: there. Okay.
Speaker #9: Great, that makes sense. Thanks for that. And then, just wanted to ask, in light of the asset sale that you did here in late 2025, are there more non-core assets that you're actively looking to sell?
Speaker #9: And strategically, are there segments or areas of the business that you're more inclined to reduce your exposure to? Thanks.
Speaker #2: Okay, yeah. Let me talk about the Eagle Hawk sale first. First of all, on that— that's not an asset that we were looking or planning to sell.
Speaker #2: Our partner approached us because they were selling at least a portion of their interest. And based on the price that we could achieve, it made sense to sell.
Speaker #2: It's an 8.5 times multiple on a non-operated minority interest and a GMP asset. And when we looked at the reinvestment opportunity—meaning if we were buying at the price that we proposed to sell and we look at the cash flows—those were going to be below our cost of capital.
Operator: It's an 8.5x multiple on a non-operated minority interest and a G&P asset. When we looked at the reinvestment opportunity, meaning if we were buying at the price that we proposed to sell and we look at the cash flows, those were going to be below our cost of capital. That included taking into account any tax impact from the sale. We thought it made sense. It was a good economic decision to sell that asset and recycle that capital. That's generally the way that we have been approaching sales of assets, which has been more opportunistic. As we say, our assets are for sale every day at the right price. We want to make good economic decisions about that. We like the portfolio of assets that we have today.
Yeah, let me let me talk about, um, the eaglehawk sale first. Um, you know, first of all on that. You know that's not an asset that we were looking for planning to sell. Um, you know, our partner, uh, approached us because they were selling at least a portion of their interests. Um, and you know, based on, uh, the price that we could achieve, um, it made sense to sell, you know, it's a, it's an 8 and a half times multiple on a non-operated minority interest and the GMP asset. And when we looked at the reinvestment opportunity, meaning if we, you know, were buying at the price that we proposed to sell and we look at the cash flows, you know, those were going to be below our cost of capital. So, you know, and, and, and that included taking into any, uh, into account, any tax impact for the, from the sale. So, we thought it made sense, um, it was a good economic decision to sell that asset and recycle that Capital. Um, and so,
Speaker #2: So and that included taking into any into account any tax impact for the from the sale. So we thought it made sense it was a good economic decision to sell that asset and recycle that capital.
Speaker #2: And so that's generally the way that we have been approaching sales of assets, which has been more opportunistic, as we say. Our assets are for sale every day at the right price.
Speaker #2: And so we want to make good economic decisions about that. We like the portfolio of assets that we have today. It's 60%—it's two-thirds natural gas—and 26% is products, pipelines, and terminals, very similar pipeline and storage business.
Operator: It's 2/3 natural gas, and 26% is products, pipelines, and terminals, very similar pipeline and storage business. So similar. Then 7% is CO2, which is a little bit different, but we get great returns in that business. And we have an expertise that a lot of people don't have. So I think we're very comfortable with the suite of assets that we have, and this was just an opportunistic sale that made sense. Thank you, Kim. Thank you. Our next caller is Jeremy Tonet with J.P. Morgan. Your line is open. Hi. Good afternoon, Jeremy. I was just curious for your thoughts, I guess, industry at large and what opportunities it could present to you down the road. Just if we think about Waha egress, one, we have some pretty cold weather coming up. And during Uri, that presented opportunities for Kinder last go-around.
So, you know, that's generally, um, you know, the way that we have been approaching um, sales of assets, which has been more opportunistic as we say, you know, our assets are for sale every day at the right price. Um, and so uh, we want to make good economic decisions about that. We like the portfolio of assets that we have today. Um, you know, 60 is 2/3, natural gas, um, and, uh, 26% is product pipelines and terminals. Very similar, you know, Pipeline and and storage business. Um, so similar and then, you know, 7% is CO2, which is a little bit different, but we, uh, get great returns in that business. Um, and uh, and we have an expertise that a lot of people don't have. So I think we're very comfortable with the, uh, the suite of assets that we have, and this was just an opportunity to sell that, uh, that made sense.
Thank you, Kim.
Speaker #2: So, similar, and then 7% is CO2, which is a little bit different, but we get great returns in that business. And we have an expertise that a lot of people don't have.
Thank you. Our next caller is Jeremy tinette with JP Morgan. Your line is open.
Hi, good afternoon.
Jeremy.
Speaker #2: So I think we're very comfortable with the suite of assets that we have, and this was just an opportunistic sale that made sense.
Speaker #9: Thank you,
Speaker #9: Kim. Thank you.
Speaker #4: Our next caller is Jeremy Tenet with J.P. Morgan. Your line is open.
I I was just curious for your thoughts, I guess, you know, industry at large and you know what opportunities, it could present to you uh down the road. Just if you think about waha egress 1, we have some pretty cool weather coming up in, uh, you know, during Yuri, uh, that presented opportunities uh, for Kinder last uh, you know, last go round. So just wondering if you could share, any thoughts there.
Speaker #10: Hi, good afternoon.
Speaker #10: I was just curious, Jeremy, for your thoughts, I guess—industry at large and what opportunities it could present to you down the road. Just if we think about Waha, egress, and, one, we have some pretty cold weather coming up, and during Uri, that presented opportunities for Kinder last go around.
But, uh, we, you know, um, as always here, when we look at the flip front, uh, you know, give our footprint, we're able to leverage, um, you know, basis, dislocations that occurred, you know, first and foremost, we want to serve our customers. Uh, and then, to the extent that these opportunities present themselves, we've been taking a little more of a, you know, a proprietary view on certain things in certain areas strategically, uh, small amounts.
Speaker #10: So, just wondering if you could share any thoughts.
Operator: So just wondering if you could share any thoughts there. Well, look, as always here, when we look at the footprint, given our footprint, we're able to leverage basis dislocations that occurred. First and foremost, we want to serve our customers. And then to the extent that these opportunities present themselves, we've been taking a little more of a proprietary view on certain things in certain areas strategically, small amounts. And so to the extent that that presents itself, we'll be able to leverage that. Yeah. But I don't think this storm is not a Uri. It's not a Uri. I mean, it's much shorter in duration, and it's not going to be as significant, so. Understood. It seems like there might be another one on its heels. So we'll see what happens this winter, I guess. Yeah.
Speaker #10: there. Well,
And so, to the extent that that uh, presents itself, we'll be able to leverage that.
Speaker #6: Look, as always here, when we look at the footprint—given our footprint—we're able to leverage basis dislocations that occurred. First and foremost, we want to serve our customers.
And, you know, it's not going to be a significant.
so,
Speaker #6: And then, to the extent that these opportunities present themselves, we've been taking a little more of a proprietary view on certain things in certain areas strategically, small amounts.
Understood seems like the there might be another 1 on a teal so we'll see what happens. This winter, I guess. Yeah. But I, you know.
Speaker #6: And so, to the extent that that presents itself, we'll be able to
Speaker #6: leverage that. Yeah.
Speaker #2: But I don't think this storm is a Yuri.
Speaker #2: I mean, it's not a Yuri. It's much shorter in duration and it's not going to be significant. So, understood. It seems like there might be another one on its heels.
Not only what I would say is that the the gas Transportation Market is very tight and so whenever you see dislocations in you know, Supply or demand in and around our assets, you know, that is going to present opportunities for us.
Um, and that's part of what you saw in the fourth quarter of this year.
Speaker #2: So, we'll see what happens this winter, I guess.
Speaker #2: But yeah, generally, what I would say is that the gas transportation market is very tight. And so whenever you see dislocations in supply or demand in and around our assets, that is going to present opportunities for us.
Operator: But generally, what I would say is that the gas transportation market is very tight. And so whenever you see dislocations in supply or demand in and around our assets, that is going to present opportunities for us. And that's part of what you saw in the fourth quarter of this year. Yeah. And then a key component of that is storage for us. And we have a significant storage portfolio that will allow us to leverage some of that to the extent that it presents itself. Got it. Thank you for that. And then just wanted to dial in on NGPL a little bit here, hearing more data center-driven opportunities in the Midwest, coal-to-gas switching as well, and some of the other natural gas pipeline operators. Seeing a lot of activity there. And just wondering if you could talk about what that could mean for Kinder, for NGPL. Yeah.
Yeah, and then I keep component of that is storage for us and we have a significant storage portfolio that will allow us to to to leverage some of that to the extent that it's uh it presents itself.
Speaker #2: And that's part of what you saw in the fourth quarter of this year.
Speaker #6: Yeah. And then a key component of that is storage for us. We have a significant storage portfolio that will allow us to leverage some of that to the extent that it presents itself.
Got it. Thank you for that and then just wanted to dial in on ngpl a little bit here hearing you know more data center driven opportunities in the midwest, you know, cold gas switching as well. Uh you know some of the other GA and that gas pipeline operators seeing a lot of um activity there. And just wondering if you could talk about what that could mean for a Kinder for ngpl.
Speaker #10: Got it. Thank you for that. And then, just wanted to dial in on NGPL a little bit here—hearing more data center-driven opportunities in the Midwest.
Speaker #10: Coal-to-gas switching as well. Some of the other natural gas pipeline operators are seeing a lot of activity there, and just wondering if you could talk about what that could mean for Kinder, for NGPL.
Yeah, so look, we've uh, you know, we're we're there's quite a bit of, you know, there's significant discussions. You've been seeing some of the, uh, EBV postings. We've been making out there. Uh, we've got, uh, uh, interest all along the pipeline in terms of, uh,
You know, not only just from Power customers but also from, uh, you know, organic markets that are that are trying to grow, uh, you know, still early on some of these projects. Uh, you know, we've got some binding commitments that
Speaker #6: Yeah. So, look, we've—we're quite a bit of—there's significant discussions. You've been seeing some of the EBV postings we've been making out there.
Operator: So look, there's quite a bit of significant discussions. You've been seeing some of the EBB postings we've been making out there. We've got interest along the pipeline in terms of not only just from power customers, but also from organic markets that are trying to grow. Still early on some of these projects. We've got some binding commitments that we're looking to convert into full-fledged FID projects as these develop. We'll bring them. But I mean, when you think about the corridor itself, we see a concentration up in the market area. We have some in the producing regions where folks are looking to site themselves. And so I think the opportunity sets there. It's just, once again, we're in this mode where folks are looking; it's a competitive landscape.
Speaker #6: We've got interest along the pipeline, not only from power customers, but also from organic markets that are trying to grow.
Speaker #6: It's still early on some of these projects. We've got some binding commitments that we're looking to convert into full-fledged FID projects. As these develop, we'll bring them.
Are looking to convert into full-fledged, you know, uh, FID projects, uh, as these develop will will bring them. But, I mean, when you think about the, the, the corridor itself, you know, we see a concentration up in the market area. Uh, we have some in the, uh, uh, producing regions where, you know, folks are looking to cite themselves. And so, I think the, the opportunity sets there it's just, you know, once again, you know, we're in this mode where folks are looking, you know, there's it's a competitive landscape and so we want to make sure we secure the returns that we need to to to progress the projects to fid.
Got it, understood. Thank you.
Speaker #6: But I mean, when you think about the corridor itself, we see a concentration up in the market area. We have some in the producing regions, where folks are looking to site themselves.
Thank you. Thank you. Our next.
Thank you. Our next caller is Gene and Salsbury with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Speaker #6: And so I think the opportunity set's there. It's just, once again, we're in this mode where folks are looking—it's a competitive landscape. And so we want to make sure we secure the returns that we need to progress the projects to FID.
Operator: And so we want to make sure we secure the returns that we need to progress the projects to FID. Got it. Understood. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Our next caller is Jean Ann Salisbury with Bank of America. Your line is open. Hi. You said in the prepared comments that MSX could be in service a couple of quarters early, I think. Is there any read across to a faster permitting process across the board, or was that project specific? No. I mean, I think a couple of things on these projects. One is 871 is gone, and that happened, I don't know, six or nine months ago. And that basically required us to wait five months between when we got our FERC certificate to when we could start construction. So that's gone.
Hi, uh, you said in the prepared comments that MSX could be in service, a couple quarters early, I think, um, is there any read across to a faster permitting process across the board? Or was that Project Specific?
Speaker #10: Got it. Understood. Thank you.
Speaker #6: Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker #4: Our next Thank you. Our next caller is Jean Ann Salisbury with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Speaker #11: Hi. You said in the prepared comments that MSX could be in service a couple of quarters early, I think. Is there any read-across to a faster permitting process across the board, or was that project-specific?
No, I mean, I think the a couple of things, um, on these projects um, 1 is 871 is gone and and um, that happened, I don't know 6, or 9 months ago, um, and that, you know, basically required us to wait, 5 months between when we got our perk certificate. So, when we,
Speaker #2: No, I mean, I think that a couple of things on these projects—one is, 871 is gone. And that happened, I don't know, six or nine months ago.
Speaker #2: And that basically required us to wait five months between when we got our first certificates and when we could start construction. So that's gone.
Speaker #2: And then the FERC has acted within, is going to act within, roughly one year on our filing. And so previously, we've been seeing that take a little bit longer than that on big projects.
Operator: And then the FERC has said it is going to act within roughly one year on our filing. So previously, we've been seeing that take a little bit longer than that on big projects. And so the fact that the FERC process only took 12 months and we don't have Order 871 is speeding up our in-service on MSX from called the fourth quarter of 2028 to the second quarter of 2028. Great. That's very clear. Thank you. And then one of your peers took an equity stake in a US LNG terminal a few months ago. Is that something that KMI is actively looking at or would have interest in, especially, I guess, if you could back-to-back it with another counterparty to make it take or pay equivalent? Well, I'll say a couple of things on that.
We could start construction. So that's gone. And then you know, the farc has acted within is going to act within roughly 1 year um on our filing and so um previously we've been seeing that take a little bit longer than that on big projects. Um and so the fact that um you know the the park process only took 12 months and we don't have 871 is speeding up our in-service on MSX from you know called the fourth quarter of 2018 to the second quarter of 28.
Speaker #2: And so the fact that the FERC process only took 12 months and we don't have 871 is speeding up our in-service on MSX from, call it, the fourth quarter of '28 to the second quarter of—
Speaker #2: And so the fact that the FERC process only took 12 months and we don't have 871 is speeding up our in-service on MSX from, call it, the fourth quarter of '28 to the second quarter of '28.
Great. That's very clear. Um, thank you and then um, 1 of your peers, took an equity stake in a US LNG terminal, a few months ago, is that something that PMI is actively looking at? Or would have interest in? Um, especially I guess if you could back to back it with another counterparty to make it, take her pay equivalent
Speaker #11: Great. That's very clear. Thank you. And then one of your peers took an equity stake in a U.S. LNG terminal a few months ago.
To make it. Well, I'll say a couple of things on that. Generally, what we've seen um on the LG front is um, the returns have been where we needed them to be to make those and to make those Investments.
Speaker #11: Is that something that KMI is actively looking at or would have interest in, especially, I guess, if you could back-to-back it with another counterparty to make it take-or-pay equivalent?
Speaker #2: To make it well, I'll say a couple of things on that. Generally, what we've seen on the LNG front is the returns haven't been where we needed them to be to make those investments.
Operator: Generally, what we've seen on the LNG front is the returns haven't been where we needed them to be to make those investments. And it's not something that we are accustomed to building. We did a small one, obviously, at Elba, but that was a relatively small facility. And so I think, in general, what you should expect from us is that we are kind of sticking to our knitting. We're staying in our lane. We are serving that LNG demand through our pipelines. And right now, we serve 40% of that demand. As Rich said, that demand is expected to grow significantly. And we expect to get our fair share of that future demand. And that's driving very nice project opportunities for us. So I'm not saying we would never step out. It's just there hasn't been the opportunity where we thought the risk-return profile was appropriate.
Um and you know it's not something that we are accustomed to building. We did a small 1 obviously at Alba um but that was a relatively small facility and so you know I think in general what you should expect from us is that we are kind of sticking to our knitting. We're staying in our lane, you know, we are serving those LLC that LNG demand uh through our Pipelines.
Speaker #2: And it's not something that we are accustomed to building. We did a small one, obviously, at Elba, but that was a relatively small facility.
Speaker #2: And so, I think in general what you should expect from us is that we are kind of sticking to our knitting. We're staying in our lane.
Speaker #2: We are serving those LNG demand through our pipelines. And right now, we serve 40% of that demand. As Rich said, that demand is expected to grow significantly.
We haven't wanted to build these on our own.
Speaker #2: And we expect to get our fair share of that future—and of that future demand. And that's driving very nice project opportunities for us.
Speaker #2: So, I'm not saying we would never step out. It's just there hasn't been the opportunity where we thought the risk-return profile was appropriate. And we haven't wanted to build these on our—
Operator: We haven't wanted to build these on our own. I think another thing we like on a risk-return basis is the fact that both on the LNG terminal side for feed gas and on the service for electric generation purposes, we have, in general, take-or-pay contracts with utility-grade, investment-grade utilities. And that, we think, is a very good way to look at the risk that we are taking. And we think that minimizes any risk that we have as opposed to contracting directly with AI developers, for example. That makes sense. Thank you. Thank you. Our next caller is Keith Stanley with Wolfe Research. Your line is open, sir. Hi. Good afternoon. You updated the messaging on CapEx to at least $3 billion a year of growth CapEx for the next few years, up from $2.5 billion. Wanted to clarify, is that solely based on the sanctioned project backlog today?
Speaker #2: own. I think
Speaker #6: Another thing we like on a risk-return basis is the fact that both on the LNG terminal side for feed gas, and on the service side for electric generation purposes, we have, in general, take-or-pay contracts with utility-grade, investment-grade utilities.
I think another thing we like on a risk return basis is the fact that both on the LNG terminal side for feed gas and on the service to, uh, for electric generation purposes, we have in general taker, pay contracts with utility grade investment grade utilities. Uh, and that we think is a very good, uh, way to look at the risk that we are taking and we think that minimizes any risk that we have, uh, as opposed to Contracting directly with AI Developers, for example,
That makes sense. Thank you.
Thank you. Our next caller, is Keith Stanley with wolf research. Your line is open sir.
Speaker #6: And that, we think, is a very good way to look at the risk that we are taking. And we think that minimizes any risk that we have.
Hi. Good afternoon. Uh, you updated the messaging on uh, capex to at least 3 billion a year of growth capex for the next few years up from 2 and a half,
Speaker #6: As opposed to contracting directly with AI developers, for example.
Speaker #11: That makes sense. Thank you.
Speaker #4: Thank you. Our next caller is Keith Stanley with Wolf Research. Your line is open, sir.
Wanted to clarify. Is that solely based on the sanctioned uh project backlog today? So if you keep fiding new projects in the backlog, grows capex could be above 3 billion a year for the next few years or is that already reflecting your best estimate over the next few years.
Speaker #12: Hi. Good afternoon. You updated the messaging on CapEx to at least $3 billion a year of growth CapEx for the next few years, up from $2.5 billion.
Speaker #12: Wanted to clarify, is that solely based on the sanctioned project backlog today? So if you keep FID'ing new projects and the backlog grows, CapEx could be above $3 billion a year for the next few years, or is that already reflecting your best estimate over the next few?
Let's say it's largely based on the 10g. Um, but there is some view, there's a small portion or that is based on you know, uh,
Operator: So if you keep FIDing new projects and the backlog grows, CapEx could be above $3 billion a year for the next few years, or is that already reflecting your best estimate over the next few years? Let's see. It's largely based on the $10 billion approved project backlog. But there is some view—there is a small portion that is based on getting some of the $10 billion in the opportunity set. And look, I think that we updated it from $2.5 to $3 billion, given the $10 billion, given we continued to add to the backlog even after putting projects in service. So, this year, when we were putting all those projects in service, at the beginning of the year we thought it might come down. It's continued to increase. Natural gas demand, we continued to see it grow between 25 and 30, but also beyond that.
getting some of the 10 billion dollars in uh, in the
Speaker #12: years? I'd say it's
Speaker #2: Largely based on the $10 billion approved project backlog. But there is some view there is a small portion of that, or that is based on getting some of the $10 billion in the opportunity set.
Speaker #2: So, and look, I think that we updated it from $2.5 billion to $3 billion given the $10 billion, given we continue to add to the backlog even after putting projects in service.
The in the opportunity set. So um and look I think that you know we updated it from 2 and a half to to 3 billion, you know, given the 10 billion dollars. Um given we continued to add to the backlog even after putting projects and service. So you know this year when we were putting all those projects and service, you know, at the beginning of the year we thought it might come down. Its continued to increase, you know, natural gas demand. You know, we continue to see it, um, grow between 25 and 30 but also, you know, beyond that. Um, and so you know, there may be the opportunity to extend that further but you know, we're not ready to do that or or make it higher but we're not ready to do that at this point in time.
Speaker #2: So this year, when we were putting all those projects in service, at the beginning of the year, we thought it might come down. It's continued to increase.
Speaker #2: Natural gas demand—we continued to see it grow between '25 and '30, but also beyond that. And so there may be the opportunity to extend that further, but we're not ready to do that, or make it higher, but we're not ready to do that at this point.
Operator: And so there may be the opportunity to extend that further, but we're not ready to do that or make it higher, but we're not ready to do that at this point in time. Got it. Second question, just wanted to follow up on the earlier one on Mississippi Crossing. So if you're six months early on that project, and potentially on some of the other bigger ones, given the regulatory environment, would your contracts kick in and you'd have pretty close to a full financial contribution right away at that earlier date, or is that not the case? It's a project-by-project analysis. In this case, the answer is no, the customers don't have to take it at that point in time. They can—I mean, they can elect to take it, but they don't have to.
Got it. Uh, second question, just wanted to uh, follow up on the earlier 1 on Mississippi Crossing. So if you're 6 months early on that project and on, you know, potentially on some of the other bigger ones, given the regulatory, uh environment would your contracts kick in and, and you'd have a pretty close to a full Financial contribution. Right away. At that earlier date or is that not the case?
Speaker #2: time. Got
Speaker #12: Second question, just one follow-up on the earlier one about Mississippi Crossing. So, if you're six months early on that project, and potentially on some of the other bigger ones given the regulatory environment, would your contracts kick in and you'd have pretty close to a full financial contribution right away at that earlier date, or is that not the case?
Speaker #2: It's a project-by-project analysis. In this case, the answer is no—the customers don't have to take it at that point in time. They can.
Speaker #2: I mean, they can elect to take it, but they don't have to. And I would say that being early on the regulatory front does not directly translate into day-for-day on the in-service.
Operator: I would say that being early on the regulatory front does not directly translate into day-for-day on the in-service. It's going to depend on the project, because once you move back that regulatory—once you get sooner approval from a regulatory perspective, you have to think about when you're getting pipe and when you're getting compression. And so, for example, we haven't seen that translate into much of an earlier date on South System 4 at this point in time. So it's project by project. But if our customers don't want that capacity, it will be available for us to use during that time. And given the macro environment, Keith—I mean, when you just think about the demand profiles that are coming our way—you look at that as an opportunity to sell in the secondary markets. Right. Got it. Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker #2: It's going to depend on the project, because once you move back that regulatory—once you get sooner approval from a regulatory perspective, you have to think about when you're getting pipe and when you're getting compression.
Um it's a project by project analysis. In this case, uh the answer is uh know the customers don't have to take it at that point in time they can I mean they can elect to take it but they don't they don't have to and I would say that um you know uh being early on the regulatory front does not directly translate into day for day on the inservice. You know it's going to depend on the project because you know once you move back that regulatory once you get sooner uh approval from a regulatory perspective, you know, you have to think about when you're getting pipe and when you're getting compression. Um and so you know for example we haven't seen that translate into much of an earlier date on South system for at this point in time. Um so it's project by project um but if our customers don't want that capacity it will be available for you know, us to use during that time.
Speaker #2: And so, for example, we haven't seen that translate into much of an earlier date on South System 4 at this point in time. So it's project by project.
And given the macro environment, case, I mean we used to think about, you know, the demand profiles that are coming our way, you know, it's just you know you look at that as an opportunity to to sell on the secondary.
Yeah, right.
Got it. Uh, thank you.
Speaker #2: But if our customers don't want that capacity, it will be available for us to use during that time.
Thank you. Our next caller is man of Gupta with UBS. Your line is open sir.
Speaker #6: And given the macro environment case, I mean, when you just think about the demand profiles that are coming our way, it's just—you look at that as an opportunity to sell in the
Speaker #6: secondary markets. Yeah. Right.
Speaker #12: Got it. Thank you.
Speaker #4: Thank you. Our next caller is Menev Gupta with UBS. Your line is open.
Operator: Our next caller is Manav Gupta with UBS. Your line is open, sir. Firstly, congrats on all the upgrades from rating agencies. It reflects the strong quality of the management and execution. I wanted to ask you about the Florida Gas Transmission projects, both the projects. How did these come about? Can you give us more details? And in the last one year, what we have seen is you announce a project and then end up upsizing it. So if you could talk about the possibility of some upsizing here for these projects.
So Manav, this is Sze Lai. So just in terms of the project itself, as you know, we're not the operator. Energy Transfer is the operator. So we'll let them talk about how it came about on the call. We've been working with them closely. Thematically, it's the same themes we've been talking about in the Southeast.
Congrats on all the upgrades from rating agencies, reflects, the strong quality of the management and execution. Um, I wanted to ask you about the Florida, gas transmission projects, both the projects, how did these come about? Can you give us more details? And in the last 1 year what you have seen is you announced a project and then end up upsizing it. So if you could talk about uh, the possibility of some upsizing here for these projects,
Speaker #4: sir. Congrats on
Speaker #13: All the upgrades from rating agencies reflect the strong quality of the management and execution. I wanted to ask you about the Florida Gas Transmission projects—both of the projects. How did these come about?
Speaker #13: Can you give us more details? And in the last one year, what we have seen is you announce a project and then end up upsizing it.
Speaker #13: So, if you could talk about the possibility of some upsizing here for these projects.
Speaker #6: So, Amana, this is Cecil. So just in terms of the project itself, as you know, we're not the operator. Energy Transfer is the operator.
Speaker #6: So, we'll let them talk about how it came about on the call. We've been working with them closely. Thematically, it's the same themes we've been talking about in the Southeast.
Speaker #6: We see that as a growth area, just broadly. And this is just another example of us getting incremental infrastructure to an area where there's significant growth.
Operator: We see that as a growth area just broadly. This is just another example of us getting incremental infrastructure to an area where there is significant growth. There's also a resiliency component there with the two projects. We think it makes sense in terms of whether or not the project gets upsized. We're in the process of having an open season right now. That open season closes here, I think, February 5, if I'm not mistaken. Based on the interest there, is it possible to upsize? Yes, if there's a demand for it. Yeah. I'd say both those projects are backed by long-term contracts with creditworthy counterparties. So, I mean, they are right down the road for us. Perfect.
Uh, us getting incremental infrastructure to an area where there's significant growth. Uh, there's also a resil resiliency component there, uh, with the 2 projects. Um, we think it makes sense in terms of whether or not the project gets upsized, uh, we're in the process of having an open season right now. That Open Season closes here, I think fehb 5th. I'm not mistaken. And and um, you know, based on the interest there is it possible to have size? Yes. If there's if there's a demand for it. Yeah, I'd say those those
Projects are backed by, you know, long-term Conte.
Speaker #6: There's also a resiliency component there. With the two projects, we think it makes sense in terms of whether or not the project gets upsized.
Um, and so I mean they are they are right down the middle.
Speaker #6: We're in the process of having an open season right now. That open season closes here, I think, February 5th, if I'm not mistaken. And based on the interest there, is it possible to upsize?
The next question comes from Jason Gable. Your line is open.
Speaker #6: Yes, if there's a demand for it.
Yeah hey it's Jason gableman from TD Cowen. Um hopefully the storm isn't hitting you too hard down there um but
Speaker #2: Yeah, I'd say those projects are backed by long-term contracts with creditworthy counterparties. And so, I mean, they are right down the—
Everyone out.
Speaker #2: middle. Perfect.
Speaker #13: My quick follow-up here is, at the start of the call, you mentioned that the Q4 turned out to be stronger than what you thought when you announced your Q3 results.
Operator: My quick follow-up here is, at the start of the call, you mentioned that Q4 turned out to be stronger than what you thought when you announced your Q3 results. So help us understand some of those tailwinds which helped you drive the beat in Q4. And are those still persistent out there? So, should Q1 also turn out pretty strong? If you could talk about that.
Sure. So, I mean, it was across the gas network. It was our interstate pipes. And it was one of our gathering assets. And so, as we said before, when you have and...
Speaker #13: So, help us understand some of those tailwinds which helped you drive the beat in Q4. And are those still persistent out there? So, should Q1 also turn out pretty strong, if you could talk about that?
We could just replay uh, mabs question because I I was interested in the answer to it. I didn't quite hear. So just wondering what drove, um, the earnings uh, upside on the natural gas segment in 4 q. Sounded like some of it was driven by um, Paul from LNG plants. So did some of these plants start up earlier than you had expected in the plan or or were there? Other factors at play? Thanks.
Speaker #2: Sure. So, I mean, it was across the gas network. So it was our interstate pipes, and it was from our gathering assets.
I mean, it was like, it was across the entire gas business. So it was, uh, a lot in our taxes and Trust State Market, it was, uh, in, uh, the eagleford and the hanesville on our gathering assets. Um, and then it was also on the interstate markets more, so in the Northeast than than other areas. And so, you know, it's a function of having a very tight um, Pipeline and storage Network and you know, and that's going to create opportunities. When you have Supply or demand dislocations that could be whether that
Need to be LNG coming on or off.
Um, you know, to be a variety of factors um but that leads to volatility and uh upside for us and there is the potential for that to happen again in 2026.
Great, thanks. And my follow-up may be staying on the topic of L LNG. Um, you know, seems like the market is facing this upcoming Global Supply. Glad and, and maybe you get a, a bit of a Slowdown in the pace of, uh, new liquefaction project sanctions here in the US Gulf Coast. Um, so just wondering how much of that project backlog if any is tied to servicing, um, in in incremental projects and I guess it's not the project backlog, it is the shadow project backlog.
And um projects LNG projects that are associated with that shadow backlog. Thanks.
Which is, you know, the, uh, you know, we have long-term take or pay contracts, uh, with these, uh, LNG facilities. And so, um, those typically are 20 to 25 year contracts, um, and they pay, whether they use that capacity or not, you know, in our current backlog about 12% of the, the, the 10 billion dollar actual approved project backlog, is
Oh, 12% of the Shadow backlog is associated with uh, with LNG. So it's not, it's not a huge percentage. Um, you know, I think a lot of the Shadow backlog again, is going to be more on the power front. Um, but the other thing I'd say is that, um, when you look at these LNG projects, it's not always about adding a new facility, you know a lot of times it's about an existing facility has you know some capacity and they want to reach further back to get more competitive Supply. So you don't you know to have incremental projects. Um you don't have to have a new facility come online. It could be a need from an existing facility to try to get uh more competitive Supply.
Great, thank you for those answers.
Thank you, this concludes today's conference call. You may go ahead and disconnect at this time.
Operator: For calling the conference center, at any time during this message, please enter your passcode followed by the pound sign. Your passcode has been confirmed. You will be joined in listen-only mode. Good afternoon, and thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Q4 2025 earnings results conference call. Your lines are in a listen-only mode until the question-and-answer session of today's conference. At that time, you may press star followed by the number one to ask a question. Please unmute your phones and state your name when prompted. Today's conference is being recorded. If you have any objections, you may disconnect at this time. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Rich Kinder, Executive Chairman of Kinder Morgan. Thank you, Michelle.
Uh, with these uh, LNG facilities. And so um, those typically are 20 to 25 year contracts, um, and they pay whether they use that capacity or not, you know, in our current backlog about 12% of the, of the 10 billion dollar actual approved project backlog is, oh, 12% of the Shadow backlog is associated with, uh, with LNG. So,
Rich Kinder: Before we begin, as usual, I'd like to remind you that KMI's earnings released today and this call include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Private Securities Litigation Reform Act of 1995 and the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as well as certain non-GAAP financial measures. Before making any investment decisions, we strongly encourage you to read our full disclosures on forward-looking statements and use of non-GAAP financial measures set forth at the end of our earnings release, as well as review our latest filings with the SEC for important material assumptions, expectations, and risk factors that may cause actual results to differ materially from those anticipated and described in such forward-looking statements. I have only two comments before turning the call over to our CEO, Kim Dang, and the team.
First, we believe our bullish outlook on natural gas demand remains grounded in reality, and we expect to see very strong growth over the rest of this decade and beyond. Now, while there are several important drivers of that growth, the largest and most certain driver remains the need for additional LNG feed gas to service both expansions of existing export facilities and new greenfield projects coming online. We now estimate feed gas demand will average 19.8 Bcf per day in 2026, which is an all-time record, an increase of 19% from the daily average of 16.6 Bcf a day in 2025. And we see that demand increasing to over 34 Bcf per day by 2030.
This astounding growth is enormously beneficial to the midstream sector, and especially to companies like Kinder Morgan that have extensive pipeline networks along the Texas, Louisiana Gulf Coast, which is the location of most of the export terminals present and future. Our throughput agreements for delivery of the feed gas are essentially take-or-pay in nature, which gives us great confidence in the resulting cash flow. My second comment is specific to Kinder Morgan. You will hear from Kim and the team that we finished 2025 very strong compared to 2024 and to our budget for 2025. And as you know from our earlier release of the budget for 2026, we expect more good performance this year. Once again, the chief driver of our success in both years is the extraordinary strength of our natural gas assets. And with that, I'll turn it over to Kim.
Kim Dang: Okay. Thanks, Rich.
As Rich said, we had a fantastic Q4, producing record results for the quarter and the year, much stronger than we anticipated when we announced our Q3 results. For the quarter, Adjusted EBITDA was up 10% compared to the Q4 of last year, and Adjusted EPS grew 22%. Those are big numbers for a stable midstream business like ours. The biggest driver of the outperformance was natural gas. It had an outstanding quarter and year. Our project backlog has increased by approximately $650 million to $10 billion. We added a little over $900 million in new projects, which was offset by $265 million of projects placed in service. The two most significant additions are Florida Gas Transmission projects, both supported by long-term shipper contracts. Our backlog multiple remains below 6x, which will drive very nice growth over the next few years.
In addition, we're working on greater than $10 billion in project opportunities beyond the backlog. While we won't be successful on all of those, it gives you a sense of the tremendous market opportunity. We believe we will continue to find attractive opportunities for years to come. Wood Mackenzie currently projects the US natural gas market will continue to grow over the longer term, with an incremental 20 Bcf a day of demand growth between 2030 and 2035. Now, a quick update on our three largest projects: MSX, South System 4, and Trident. We started construction on Trident last week. And for MSX and South System 4, we received our FERC scheduling order. The FERC anticipates issuing our final certificate by 31 July, which is a schedule we requested but ahead of our original expectation.
There's still a lot of work ahead, but all three projects are on budget and on or ahead of schedule. Another positive: last week, S&P upgraded KMI to BBB Plus. That shows our balance sheet is in great shape. On the management front, I want to take a moment to recognize Tom Martin, who will retire at the end of this month for his wise counsel and the value he has helped deliver to our shareholders over his 23 years with the company. As we have previously announced, Tom will continue to serve as an advisor to the OTC and the board, so we'll continue to benefit from his perspective. We're excited to have Dax, who many of you know from his long tenure at the company, step into the president's role. I'm looking forward to working with him closely as we continue to execute on our strategy.
To sum it up, we had a great quarter and year. We also strengthened our balance sheet and advanced key projects. With a $10 billion backlog and tremendous potential beyond that, we're set up for a very exciting future. With that, I'll turn it over to David. Oh, Tom.
Tom Martin: Thanks, Kim. I appreciate the kind words. Starting with the natural gas business unit, transport volumes were up 9% in the quarter versus the Q4 of 2024, primarily due to increased LNG feed gas deliveries on Tennessee Gas Pipeline. For the full year, transport volumes were up 5% over 2024. Natural gas gathering volumes were up 19% in the quarter from the Q4 of 2024 across all of our G&P assets, with the largest impact being from our Haynesville system. Sequentially, total gathering volumes were up 9%, and the full year 2025 gathering volumes were up 4% versus 2024.
We experienced a significant ramp-up from our producer customers during the quarter to meet the growing LNG demand. Our Haynesville gathering system, for example, sent a daily throughput record of 1.97 Bcf/d on 24 December. Looking forward, we continue to see significant incremental project opportunities across our natural gas pipeline network. For example, we are in various stages of development to potentially serve more than 10 Bcf/d of natural gas demand in the power generation sector. In our product pipeline segment, refined product volumes were down 2% in the quarter compared to the Q4 of 2024. For the full year 2025, refined product volumes were about equal to 24. Crude and condensate volumes were down 8% in the quarter compared to the Q4 of 2024.
More than all of that decline is driven by taking HH out of service for the NGL conversion project early in the Q3 2025. Excluding HH volumes in both periods, crude and condensate volumes were up 6% in the quarter compared to the Q4 2024. On 16 January 2026, KMI and Phillips 66 announced the start of a second open season on their proposed Western Gateway Pipeline System. The Western Gateway Pipeline will connect Midwest and other refinery supply to Phoenix and to California with connectivity to Las Vegas, Nevada via KMI's Calnev pipeline. The second open season, which concludes on 31 March 2026, is for the remaining pipeline capacity and adds new access to the Los Angeles market via a joint tariff supported by the planned reversal of one of KMI's existing SFPP lines between Watson and Colton, California.
In addition to expanding the offered destinations, the second open season adds additional origin points to enable supply diversification and optionality for our customers. We believe this project provides an attractive supply alternative for markets in Arizona and California. In our terminals business segment, our liquid lease capacity remains high at 93%. Market conditions continue to remain supportive of strong rates, and the utilization of tanks available for use is 99% at our key hubs on the Houston Ship Channel and at Carteret, New Jersey.
Our Jones Act tanker fleet remains exceptionally well contracted, assuming likely options are exercised. Our fleet is 100% leased through 2026, 97% leased through 2027, and 80% leased through 2028. We have opportunistically chartered a significant percentage of our fleet at higher market rates and have an average length of firm contract commitments of more than three years.
The CO2 segment experienced 1% lower oil production volumes, 2% lower NGL volumes, and 2% lower CO2 volumes in the Q4 versus the Q4 of 2024. For the full year 2025, oil volumes are about 2% below 2024, but finished strong in the quarter to be slightly above our plan for the year. With that, I'll turn it over to David.
David Michels: Thank you, Tom. For the quarter, we're declaring a quarterly dividend of $0.2925 per share, which is $1.17 per share annualized, up 2% from 2024. For the Q4, we generated net income attributable to KMI of $996 million and EPS of $0.45, 49% and 50% above the Q4 of 2024. This quarter's results included a gain on an asset sale, which we treat as a certain item. Excluding certain items, our adjusted net income and adjusted EPS still grew very nicely, both 22% above the Q4 of 2024.
Our growth was driven by newly placed in service natural gas expansion projects, contributions from our Outrigger acquisition, and continued strong demand for natural gas transport, storage, and related services. For the full year 2025, we beat our budget by more than the contributions from our Outrigger acquisition. Outperformance came from our natural gas business, driven by greater value on transport capacity and ancillary services. Our terminals segment also generated better than budgeted contributions.
We budgeted to grow Adjusted EBITDA by 4% and Adjusted EPS by 10% from 2024. We actually grew Adjusted EBITDA by 6% and Adjusted EPS by 13%. Our 2025 EBITDA and net income were all-time record levels for Kinder Morgan. Moving on to the balance sheet, as we continue to grow our cash flows and take a disciplined approach to capital allocation, our balance sheet continues to strengthen.
Our net debt-to-Adjusted EBITDA ratio improved to 3.8x, down from 3.9x last quarter and down from 4.1x at the end of the Q1, which was immediately following the acquisition of Outrigger. Since the end of 2024, our net debt has decreased $9 million, despite nearly $3 billion of total investments in growth projects and the acquisition. So we'll go through a high-level reconciliation. We generated cash flow from operations of $5.92 billion. We've spent $2.6 billion in dividends. We invested $3.15 billion in total CapEx, including growth, sustaining, and contributions to joint ventures. We spent approximately $650 million on the Outrigger acquisition. We've received $380 million on divestitures, primarily the Eagle Hawk sale. And then we had all other items, a source of cash of about $100 million. That gets you close to the $9 million decrease in net debt for the year.
The rating agencies have recognized our strengthened financial profile. Last week, S&P upgraded us to BBB Positive. Fitch upgraded us to BBB Plus during the summer of 2025, and we're on positive outlook by Moody's. So, as has already been mentioned, but I'll mention it again, 2025 was an exceptionally strong year, a record-setting year, in fact. We beat our budget and delivered double-digit earnings growth. We grew our backlog from $8.1 billion to $10.0 billion despite placing $1.8 billion of projects into service, meaning we added $3.7 billion of projects to the backlog during the year. We improved our balance sheet.
We achieved credit rating upgrades and expect meaningful cash flow benefits from tax reform, which will generate additional investment capacity. We have very positive momentum heading into 2026. And with that, I'll turn it back to Kim.
Kim Dang: Okay, Michels, if you'll come back on and we'll take questions.
Operator: Thank you. At this time, if you would like to ask a question, you may press star, followed by the number one. To withdraw your question, you may press star two. Please unmute your phones and state your name when prompted. Our first caller is Julian Dumoulin-Smith with Jefferies. Your line is open.
Julien Dumoulin-Smith: Hey, good afternoon, team. Thank you guys very much for the time. Appreciate it. Look, if I can kick it off more on the data center front, you guys talk about the 70% number with respect to where you have exposure and aligned with data center opportunities. Can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing actively on the front? Obviously, we saw the FGT announcement here. Perhaps that speaks to that a little bit.
But how do you think about that regionally in terms of further data points we should be seeing through the course of the year? And I've got a quick follow-up.
Kim Dang: Okay. I'm not exactly sure about the 70%, but if you look at our $10 billion backlog, about 60% of our backlog is associated with power projects. That's not just data center. That's anything associated with power. And if you think about the opportunities on the power side, I think a great example is if you look in the state of Georgia, where Georgia Power recently, I think the end of November, filed a revised IRP, and they're projecting 53 gigawatts of power demand between now and the early 2030s. And so, from a gas perspective, if that was 100% gas, that would be like 10 Bcf/d, roughly, depending on the conversion metrics you use.
We expect that a significant portion of that will be gas. That's just one utility in one state. What we're seeing across our network, whether that's in Georgia or South Carolina or Louisiana or Arkansas or Texas or New Mexico or Colorado, I mean, we are seeing similar stories just across our network. The other thing is, you look at power demand; we've got a higher power demand growth between 2025 and 2030. Wood Mac has, in their most recent estimates, increased theirs. If you look at Wood Mac between 2030 and 2035, they think the power growth, at least in their projections, is greater between 2030 and 2035 than it is in their projections between 25 and 30. This is something that is driving a significant amount of projects.
It's also a significant driver of the potential opportunities that we have, and we think will last for a decade.
Julien Dumoulin-Smith: Excellent. If I can just firm up a little bit more on the SSE 5 setup and timing, what are you looking to move forward on that? How are you thinking about timing? And then even more specifically, if you could speak to, are you thinking about this as being a compression-first or looping kind of project initially, and what level of signed utility load would unlock a more formal filing?
Sital Mody: Yeah, Julian, this is Sze. So look, in terms of timing, we see strong interest in the Southeast, and we continue to work with the customer base. In terms of what the final scope looks like, that all depends on final subscription. I do see it more than just compression. I think there could be some more brownfield looping.
But once again, it's early. We're working through the demand dynamics with our customer base. We do see opportunity there, and it is competitive. So we will continue to report as we go along, but ultimately, the signed deal is what drives the announcement.
Julien Dumoulin-Smith: Excellent. Thank you, guys. Stay warm this weekend.
Sital Mody: Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. Our next caller is Jackie Kalledis with Goldman Sachs. Your line is open.
Jackie Koletas: Hi. Thank you so much for the time this evening. First, I just wanted to start on the next steps on the Western Gateway following the second open season launched last week. How do you think about allocating capital towards this project versus natural gas opportunity set, and how do those returns compare?
Kim Dang: Yeah. I mean, on every project, we look at based on risk and return.
And so I think we have a middle-of-the-road return that we expect, and then we vary off that based on the stability, the duration, and the creditworthiness of the cash flows. And so if you've got stronger creditworthy parties and longer cash flows and take-or-pay, then you come off that return down from that return a little bit. And if you have those things are less, then you go above that return. All these returns are significantly above our cost of capital. And so I think if we proceed on Western Gateway, we will have long-term shipper contracts there, and I expect those shipper contracts will be largely from creditworthy counterparties. And if not, we would have some credit support. So we don't, at this point, have limited capital. I think we can easily fund this project and do all the natural gas projects that we're talking about.
Another point I'd point out on Western Gateway, which is we are contributing assets to that. And so our cash contribution will be less than we're setting up a 50/50 joint venture with P66. It would be less than half of the cost of the overall project because we're contributing value for contributing assets for part of our contribution.
Jackie Koletas: Got it. That's helpful. And then just as a follow-up, leverage ended around 3.8 times in the quarter. How do you think about maintaining leverage levels towards the midpoint of your long-term guide of 3.5 to 4.5 range versus leveraging up towards that high end if there are multiple CapEx opportunities?
Kim Dang: Well, I'd say right now, what we've said is we're going to spend about $3 billion per year in CapEx.
Now, that won't be a perfect round $3 billion because you just have timing to spend, but roughly $3 billion a year. We have the ability to fund that 100% out of cash flow. The other thing I'd point out is that as our $10 billion backlog of projects come online, that our debt to EBITDA actually declines over time. So that creates more balance sheet capacity. For every 0.1x leverage, that's $850 million of capacity. I think we've got a ton of capacity even without leveraging up closer to the 4.5x. I don't think we have intention of getting close to that level. I think we've got plenty of capacity to accommodate the opportunities that we see out there.
Jackie Koletas: Great. Thank you so much for the time.
Operator: Thank you. Our next caller is Teresa Chen with Barclays.
Your line is open.
Theresa Chen: Good afternoon. Kim, hear you loud and clear on the less than 50% of capital contribution on Western Gateway because you're contributing SFPP. When we think about the net EBITDA impact to Kinder, and I'm assuming this project moves forward, how should we quantify the displacement of existing SFPP EBITDA? How much is that contributing currently?
Kim Dang: Well, I think two things. One, Teresa, I think we're really early. And so we've got to get through the open season. We've got negotiations to do with our partner on the specifics. And so I think we've got to finalize costs, etc. So I think it's too early to go through that at this point.
Theresa Chen: Understood.
Maybe turning to a different portion of your liquids business, could you provide an update on the progress of the Double H conversion and in light of recent upstream developments in the Bakken and the increasingly challenged near-term outlook for the basin? How are you thinking about the expected NGL throughput and EBITDA contribution from this project?
Kim Dang: Sure. I mean, the project's going to come on probably late Q1, early Q2. And that's phase one. And then with respect to the future phases, that's something we continue to work on.
Sital Mody: Yeah. I mean, Teresa, broadly, though, I mean, we still, given the recent pullback, it's just a matter of time. I think our initial phase is well contracted. We see the volumes behind it. These are coming from our plants. And so we have visibility there.
So I don't think as far as phase one's concerned, and that is probably on the earlier side of the timeframe that Kim gave you in terms of where we've come in. I think as we look to the next phase, we continue to have discussions, positive discussions with our customers. We'll monitor the overall macro situation, and we'll make the investment decision accordingly. That being said, we still have that in front of us. Right. And I think the other thing is GORs are growing in the Bakken.
Theresa Chen: Fair enough. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. Our next caller is Michael Blum with Wells Fargo. Your line is open.
Michael Blum: Thanks. Good afternoon, everyone. Yeah. Maybe if I could just ask maybe a different way at the same question to some degree.
With Continental Resources effectively saying they're going to stop drilling in the Bakken, I wonder if you can talk about, at least for now, how meaningful a customer they are, either your current business or where they were contemplated to be for Double H and if that has an impact on the further expansion? Thanks.
Kim Dang: Yeah. So yeah, if you look at the EBITDA that we get from Bakken or EBITDA, it's about 3% of Kinder Morgan overall. Obviously, Continental makes up a piece of that. We don't think that there's going to be any material impact from the Continental news. We think that the impact is very manageable. That's one because it's 3% of our EBITDA, but it's also because volumes came into the year a little stronger than we were expecting.
It's also because they're going to continue to complete wells through August, and because they are just one of a number of customers we have up there.
Michael Blum: Okay. Great. That makes sense. Thanks for that. And then just wanted to ask, in light of the asset sale that you did here in late 2025, are there more non-core assets that you're actively looking to sell? And strategically, are there segments or areas of the business that you're more inclined to reduce your exposure to? Thanks.
Kim Dang: Okay. Yeah. Let me talk about the Eagle Hawk sale first. First of all, on that, that's not an asset that we were looking or planning to sell. Our partner approached us because they were selling at least a portion of their interest. And based on the price that we could achieve, it made sense to sell.
It's an 8.5x multiple on a non-operated minority interest and a G&P asset. When we looked at the reinvestment opportunity, meaning if we were buying at the price that we proposed to sell and we look at the cash flows, those were going to be below our cost of capital. That included taking into account any tax impact from the sale. We thought it made sense. It was a good economic decision to sell that asset and recycle that capital. That's generally the way that we have been approaching sales of assets, which has been more opportunistic. As we say, our assets are for sale every day at the right price. We want to make good economic decisions about that. We like the portfolio of assets that we have today.
It's 2/3 natural gas, and 26% is products, pipelines, and terminals, very similar pipeline and storage business. So similar. Then 7% is CO2, which is a little bit different, but we get great returns in that business. And we have an expertise that a lot of people don't have. So I think we're very comfortable with the suite of assets that we have, and this was just an opportunistic sale that made sense. \
Michael Blum: Thank you, Kim.
Operator: Thank you. Our next caller is Jeremy Tonet with J.P. Morgan. Your line is open.
Jeremy Tonet: Hi. Good afternoon,
Kim Dang: Jeremy.
Jeremy Tonet: I was just curious for your thoughts, I guess, industry at large and what opportunities it could present to you down the road. Just if we think about Waha egress, one, we have some pretty cold weather coming up. And during Uri, that presented opportunities for Kinder last go-around.
So just wondering if you could share any thoughts there.
Sital Mody: Well, look, as always here, when we look at the footprint, given our footprint, we're able to leverage basis dislocations that occurred. First and foremost, we want to serve our customers. And then to the extent that these opportunities present themselves, we've been taking a little more of a proprietary view on certain things in certain areas strategically, small amounts. And so to the extent that that presents itself, we'll be able to leverage that.
Kim Dang: Yeah. But I don't think this storm is not a Uri.
Sital Mody: It's not a Uri.
Kim Dang: I mean, it's much shorter in duration, and it's not going to be as significant, so.
Jeremy Tonet: Understood. It seems like there might be another one on its heels. So we'll see what happens this winter, I guess.
Sital Mody: Yeah.
Kim Dang: But generally, what I would say is that the gas transportation market is very tight. And so whenever you see dislocations in supply or demand in and around our assets, that is going to present opportunities for us. And that's part of what you saw in the Q4 of this year.
Sital Mody: Yeah. And then a key component of that is storage for us. And we have a significant storage portfolio that will allow us to leverage some of that to the extent that it presents itself.
Jeremy Tonet: Got it. Thank you for that. And then just wanted to dial in on NGPL a little bit here, hearing more data center-driven opportunities in the Midwest, coal-to-gas switching as well, and some of the other natural gas pipeline operators. Seeing a lot of activity there. And just wondering if you could talk about what that could mean for Kinder, for NGPL.
Sital Mody: Yeah.
So look, there's quite a bit of significant discussions. You've been seeing some of the EBB postings we've been making out there. We've got interest along the pipeline in terms of not only just from power customers, but also from organic markets that are trying to grow. Still early on some of these projects. We've got some binding commitments that we're looking to convert into full-fledged FID projects as these develop. We'll bring them. But I mean, when you think about the corridor itself, we see a concentration up in the market area. We have some in the producing regions where folks are looking to site themselves. And so I think the opportunity sets there. It's just, once again, we're in this mode where folks are looking; it's a competitive landscape.
And so we want to make sure we secure the returns that we need to progress the projects to FID.
Jeremy Tonet: Got it. Understood. Thank you.
Sital Mody: Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. Our next caller is Jean Ann Salisbury with Bank of America. Your line is open.
Jean Ann Salisbury: Hi. You said in the prepared comments that MSX could be in service a couple of quarters early, I think. Is there any read across to a faster permitting process across the board, or was that project specific?
Kim Dang: No. I mean, I think a couple of things on these projects. One is 871 is gone, and that happened, I don't know, six or nine months ago. And that basically required us to wait five months between when we got our FERC certificate to when we could start construction. So that's gone.
And then the FERC has said it is going to act within roughly one year on our filing. So previously, we've been seeing that take a little bit longer than that on big projects. And so the fact that the FERC process only took 12 months and we don't have Order 871 is speeding up our in-service on MSX from called the Q4 of 2028 to the Q2 of 2028.
Jean Ann Salisbury: Great. That's very clear. Thank you. And then one of your peers took an equity stake in a US LNG terminal a few months ago. Is that something that KMI is actively looking at or would have interest in, especially, I guess, if you could back-to-back it with another counterparty to make it take or pay equivalent?
Kim Dang: Well, I'll say a couple of things on that.
Generally, what we've seen on the LNG front is the returns haven't been where we needed them to be to make those investments. And it's not something that we are accustomed to building. We did a small one, obviously, at Elba, but that was a relatively small facility. And so I think, in general, what you should expect from us is that we are kind of sticking to our knitting. We're staying in our lane. We are serving that LNG demand through our pipelines. And right now, we serve 40% of that demand. As Rich said, that demand is expected to grow significantly. And we expect to get our fair share of that future demand. And that's driving very nice project opportunities for us. So I'm not saying we would never step out. It's just there hasn't been the opportunity where we thought the risk-return profile was appropriate.
We haven't wanted to build these on our own.
Rich Kinder: I think another thing we like on a risk-return basis is the fact that both on the LNG terminal side for feed gas and on the service for electric generation purposes, we have, in general, take-or-pay contracts with utility-grade, investment-grade utilities. And that, we think, is a very good way to look at the risk that we are taking. And we think that minimizes any risk that we have as opposed to contracting directly with AI developers, for example.
Jean Ann Salisbury: That makes sense. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. Our next caller is Keith Stanley with Wolfe Research. Your line is open, sir.
Keith Stanley: Hi. Good afternoon. You updated the messaging on CapEx to at least $3 billion a year of growth CapEx for the next few years, up from $2.5 billion. Wanted to clarify, is that solely based on the sanctioned project backlog today?
So if you keep FIDing new projects and the backlog grows, CapEx could be above $3 billion a year for the next few years, or is that already reflecting your best estimate over the next few years?
Kim Dang: Let's see. It's largely based on the $10 billion approved project backlog. But there is some view there is a small portion that is based on getting some of the $10 billion in the opportunity set. And look, I think that we updated it from $2.5 to 3 billion, given the $10 billion, given we continued to add to the backlog even after putting projects in service. So this year, when we were putting all those projects in service, at the beginning of the year, we thought it might come down. It's continued to increase. Natural gas demand, we continued to see it grow between 25 and 30, but also beyond that.
And so there may be the opportunity to extend that further, but we're not ready to do that or make it higher, but we're not ready to do that at this point in time.
Keith Stanley: Got it. Second question, just wanted to follow up on the earlier one on Mississippi Crossing. So if you're six months early on that project and potentially on some of the other bigger ones, given the regulatory environment, would your contracts kick in and you'd have pretty close to a full financial contribution right away at that earlier date, or is that not the case?
Kim Dang: It's a project-by-project analysis. In this case, the answer is no, the customers don't have to take it at that point in time. They can. I mean, they can elect to take it, but they don't have to.
I would say that being early on the regulatory front does not directly translate into day-for-day on the in-service. It's going to depend on the project because once you move back that regulatory once you get sooner approval from a regulatory perspective, you have to think about when you're getting pipe and when you're getting compression. And so, for example, we haven't seen that translate into much of an earlier date on South System 4 at this point in time. So it's project-by-project. But if our customers don't want that capacity, it will be available for us to use during that time.
Sital Mody: And given the macro environment, Keith, I mean, when you just think about the demand profiles that are coming our way, it's just you look at that as an opportunity to sell in the secondary markets.
Keith Stanley: Right. Got it. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you.
Operator: Our next caller is Manav Gupta with UBS. Your line is open, sir.
Manav Gupta: Firstly, congrats on all the upgrades from rating agencies. It reflects the strong quality of the management and execution. I wanted to ask you about the Florida Gas Transmission projects, both the projects. How did these come about? Can you give us more details? And in the last one year, what we have seen is you announce a project and then end up upsizing it. So if you could talk about the possibility of some upsizing here for these projects.
Sital Mody: So Manav, this is Sze Lai. So just in terms of the project itself, as you know, we're not the operator. Energy Transfer is the operator. So we'll let them talk about how it came about on the call. We've been working with them closely. Thematically, it's the same themes we've been talking about in the Southeast.
We see that as a growth area just broadly. This is just another example of us getting incremental infrastructure to an area where there is significant growth. There's also a resiliency component there with the two projects. We think it makes sense in terms of whether or not the project gets upsized. We're in the process of having an open season right now. That open season closes here, I think, 5 February, if I'm not mistaken. Based on the interest there, is it possible to upsize? Yes, if there's a demand for it.
Kim Dang: Yeah. I'd say both those projects are backed by long-term contracts with creditworthy counterparties. So, I mean, they are right down the road for us.
Manav Gupta: Perfect.
My quick follow-up here is, at the start of the call, you mentioned that the Q4 turned out to be stronger than what you thought when you announced your Q3 results. So help us understand some of those tailwinds which help you drive the beat in Q4. And are those still persistent out there? So should Q1 also turn out pretty strong? If you could talk about that.
Kim Dang: Sure. So, I mean, it was across the gas network. It was our interstate pipes. And it was one of our gathering assets. And so, as we said before, when you have and.