ASML Q4 2025 ASML Holding NV Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q4 2025 ASML Holding NV Earnings Call
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Jim Kavanagh: Thank you, operator. Welcome, everyone. This is Jim Kavanagh, Head of Investor Relations at ASML. Joining me today on the call are ASML CEO, Christophe Fouquet, and our CFO, Roger Dassen. The subject of today's call is ASML's 2025 Q4 and full year results. The length of this call will be 60 minutes, and questions will be taken in the order that they are received. This call is also being broadcast live over the internet at www.asml.com. A transcript of management's opening remarks and a replay of the call will be available on our website shortly following the conclusion of this call. Before we begin, I would like to caution listeners that comments made by management during this conference call will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These forward-looking statements involve material risks and uncertainties.
Jim Kavanagh: Thank you, operator. Welcome, everyone. This is Jim Kavanagh, Head of Investor Relations at ASML. Joining me today on the call are ASML CEO, Christophe Fouquet, and our CFO, Roger Dassen. The subject of today's call is ASML's 2025 Q4 and full year results. The length of this call will be 60 minutes, and questions will be taken in the order that they are received. This call is also being broadcast live over the internet at www.asml.com. A transcript of management's opening remarks and a replay of the call will be available on our website shortly following the conclusion of this call. Before we begin, I would like to caution listeners that comments made by management during this conference call will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the federal securities laws. These forward-looking statements involve material risks and uncertainties.
Speaker #2: Welcome, everyone. This is Jim Kavanagh, Head of Investor Relations at ASML. Joining me today on the call are ASML CEO, Christophe Fouquet, and our CFO, Roger Dassen.
Speaker #2: The subject of today's call is ASML's 2025 fourth-quarter and full-year results. The length of this call will be 60 minutes, and questions will be taken in the order that they are received.
Speaker #2: This call is also being broadcast live over the internet at www.asml.com. A transcript of management's opening remarks and a replay of the call will be available on our website shortly following the conclusion of this call.
Speaker #2: Before we begin, I would like to caution listeners that comments made by management during this conference call will include forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Federal Securities Laws.
Speaker #2: These forward-looking statements involve material risks and uncertainties. For a discussion of risk factors, I encourage you to review the Safe Harbor Statement contained in today's press release and presentation, found on our website at www.asml.com.
Jim Kavanagh: For a discussion of risk factors, I encourage you to review the safe harbor statement contained in today's press release and presentation, found on our website at www.asml.com, and in our ASML's annual report on Form 20-F, and in other documents as filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. With that, I would like to turn the call over to Christophe Fouquet for a brief introduction.
For a discussion of risk factors, I encourage you to review the safe harbor statement contained in today's press release and presentation, found on our website at www.asml.com, and in our ASML's annual report on Form 20-F, and in other documents as filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. With that, I would like to turn the call over to Christophe Fouquet for a brief introduction.
Speaker #2: And in our ASML's annual report on Form 20-F and in other documents as filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. With that, I would like to turn the call over to Christophe Fouquet for a
Speaker #2: brief introduction. Thank you,
Christophe Fouquet: Thank you, Jim. Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our Q4 and full year 2025 results conference call. Before we begin the Q&A session, Roger and I would like to provide an overview and some commentary on the Q4 results and full year 2025 results, as well as provide some additional comments on the current business environment and on our future business outlook. Roger?
Christophe Fouquet: Thank you, Jim. Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our Q4 and full year 2025 results conference call. Before we begin the Q&A session, Roger and I would like to provide an overview and some commentary on the Q4 results and full year 2025 results, as well as provide some additional comments on the current business environment and on our future business outlook. Roger?
Speaker #3: Jim: Welcome, everyone, and thank you for joining us for our fourth-quarter and full-year 2025 results conference call. Before we begin the Q&A session, Roger and I would like to provide an overview and some commentary on the fourth-quarter results and full-year 2025 results.
Speaker #3: As well as provide some additional comments on the current business environment and on our future business outlook.
Speaker #3: Roger? Thank you, Christophe, and
Roger Dassen: Thank you, Christophe, and welcome everyone. I will first review the Q4 and full year 2025 financial accomplishments, and then provide guidance for Q1 2026. Let me start with our Q4 accomplishments. The Q4 2025, total net sales were EUR 9.7 billion, which is within our guidance. Net system sales were EUR 7.6 billion, which includes EUR 3.6 billion from EUV system sales, including two High NA systems, and EUR 4 billion from non-EUV system sales. Net system sales were driven by Logic at 70%, with the remaining 30% coming from Memory. Installed Base Management sales for the quarter came in at EUR 2.1 billion as guided. Gross margin for the quarter was also within guidance at 52.2%.
Roger Dassen: Thank you, Christophe, and welcome everyone. I will first review the Q4 and full year 2025 financial accomplishments, and then provide guidance for Q1 2026. Let me start with our Q4 accomplishments. The Q4 2025, total net sales were EUR 9.7 billion, which is within our guidance. Net system sales were EUR 7.6 billion, which includes EUR 3.6 billion from EUV system sales, including two High NA systems, and EUR 4 billion from non-EUV system sales. Net system sales were driven by Logic at 70%, with the remaining 30% coming from Memory. Installed Base Management sales for the quarter came in at EUR 2.1 billion as guided. Gross margin for the quarter was also within guidance at 52.2%.
Speaker #2: First, let me review the fourth-quarter and full-year—welcome, everyone. I will cover 2025 financial accomplishments and then provide guidance for the first quarter of 2026. Let me start with our fourth-quarter accomplishments.
Speaker #2: The fourth quarter of 2025 total net sales were €9.7 billion, which is within our guidance. Net system sales were €7.6 billion, which includes €3.6 billion from EUV system sales, including two high-end systems, and €4.0 billion from non-EUV system sales.
Speaker #2: Net system sales were driven by logic at 70%, with the remaining 30% coming from memory. Installed base management sales for the quarter came in at 2.1 billion euros as guided.
Speaker #2: Gross margin for the quarter was also within guidance at 52.2%. On operating expenses, R&D expenses were slightly higher than expected at approximately €1.3 billion, mainly due to higher non-recurring personnel costs and the recognition of a grant that shifted into 2026.
Roger Dassen: On operating expenses, R&D expenses were slightly higher than expected at rounded EUR 1.3 billion, mainly due to higher non-recurring personnel costs and the recognition of a grant that shifted into 2026. SG&A expenses also came in higher than guided at EUR 375 million, driven mostly by higher, mainly non-recurring salary-related costs, the sale of receivables, and pull-in of certain IT spending. The effective tax rate for Q4 was 18%. For the full year 2025, the annualized effective tax rate came in at 17.7%. Net income in Q4 was EUR 2.8 billion, representing 29.2% of total net sales, and resulting in earnings per share of EUR 7.35. Turning to the balance sheets.
On operating expenses, R&D expenses were slightly higher than expected at rounded EUR 1.3 billion, mainly due to higher non-recurring personnel costs and the recognition of a grant that shifted into 2026. SG&A expenses also came in higher than guided at EUR 375 million, driven mostly by higher, mainly non-recurring salary-related costs, the sale of receivables, and pull-in of certain IT spending. The effective tax rate for Q4 was 18%. For the full year 2025, the annualized effective tax rate came in at 17.7%. Net income in Q4 was EUR 2.8 billion, representing 29.2% of total net sales, and resulting in earnings per share of EUR 7.35. Turning to the balance sheets.
Speaker #2: G&A expenses also came in higher than guided at €375 million, driven mostly by higher, mainly non-recurring, salary-related costs, the sale of receivables, and the pull-in of certain IT spending.
Speaker #2: The effective tax rate for Q4 was 18%, but for full-year 2025, the annualized effective tax rate came in at 17.7%. Net income in Q4 was €2.8 billion, representing 29.2% of total net sales, and resulting in earnings per share of €7.35.
Speaker #2: Turning to the balance sheets, we ended the fourth quarter with cash, cash equivalents, and short-term investments at a level of €13.3 billion. Our Q4 free cash flow was €10.9 billion, which was significantly higher relative to the previous quarters of this year, with the majority of the cash coming in at the very end of the quarter.
Roger Dassen: We ended the fourth quarter with cash, cash equivalents, and short-term investments at a level of EUR 13.3 billion. Our Q4 free cash flow was EUR 10.9 billion, which was significantly higher relative to the previous quarters of this year, with the majority of the cash coming in at the very end of the quarter. Moving to the order book, Q4 net bookings came in at EUR 13.2 billion, split between EUR 7.4 billion of EUV systems and EUR 5.8 billion of non-EUV systems. Net bookings in the quarter were slightly weighted towards memory, with 56% of bookings and logic accounting for the remaining 44%. Turning now to the full year, net sales came in at EUR 32.7 billion, with a gross margin of 52.8%.
We ended the fourth quarter with cash, cash equivalents, and short-term investments at a level of EUR 13.3 billion. Our Q4 free cash flow was EUR 10.9 billion, which was significantly higher relative to the previous quarters of this year, with the majority of the cash coming in at the very end of the quarter. Moving to the order book, Q4 net bookings came in at EUR 13.2 billion, split between EUR 7.4 billion of EUV systems and EUR 5.8 billion of non-EUV systems. Net bookings in the quarter were slightly weighted towards memory, with 56% of bookings and logic accounting for the remaining 44%. Turning now to the full year, net sales came in at EUR 32.7 billion, with a gross margin of 52.8%.
Speaker #2: Moving to the order book, Q4 net bookings came in at €13.2 billion, split between €7.4 billion of EUV systems and €5.8 billion of non-EUV systems.
Speaker #2: Net bookings in the quarter were slightly weighted towards memory, with 56% of bookings, and logic accounting for the remaining 44%. Turning now to the full year, net sales came in at €32.7 billion, with a gross margin of 52.8%.
Speaker #2: EUV system sales realized from 48 systems, including high-end, were 11.6 billion euros, which was 39% higher than 2024. DPV system sales decreased 6% year over year to 12 billion euros.
Roger Dassen: EUV system sales realized from 48 systems, including High NA, were EUR 11.6 billion, which was 39% higher than 2024. DUV system sales decreased 6% year-over-year to EUR 12 billion, while metrology and inspection system sales increased 28% from 2024 to EUR 825 million. Looking at the market segments for 2025, logic system revenue was EUR 16.1 billion, 22% higher than 2024. Memory system revenue was EUR 8.4 billion, 2% lower than 2024, and installed base management sales were EUR 8.2 billion, 26% higher than 2024. We concluded 2025 with a backlog of around EUR 38.8 billion. In 2025, we continued to invest in innovation across our full product portfolio, increasing R&D spending to EUR 4.7 billion, or about 14% of sales.
EUV system sales realized from 48 systems, including High NA, were EUR 11.6 billion, which was 39% higher than 2024. DUV system sales decreased 6% year-over-year to EUR 12 billion, while metrology and inspection system sales increased 28% from 2024 to EUR 825 million. Looking at the market segments for 2025, logic system revenue was EUR 16.1 billion, 22% higher than 2024. Memory system revenue was EUR 8.4 billion, 2% lower than 2024, and installed base management sales were EUR 8.2 billion, 26% higher than 2024. We concluded 2025 with a backlog of around EUR 38.8 billion. In 2025, we continued to invest in innovation across our full product portfolio, increasing R&D spending to EUR 4.7 billion, or about 14% of sales.
Speaker #2: For metrology and inspection system sales, increased 28% from 2024 to 825 million euros. Looking at the market segments for 2025, logic system revenue was 16.1 billion euros, 22% higher than 2024.
Speaker #2: Memory system revenue was €8.4 billion, 2% lower than 2024, and installed base management sales were €8.2 billion, 26% higher than 2024. We concluded 2025 with a backlog of around €38.8 billion.
Speaker #2: In 2025, we continue to invest in innovation across our full product portfolio, increasing R&D spending to 4.7 billion euros, or about 14% of sales, FG&A increased to 1.3 billion euros in 2025, which was about 4%.
Roger Dassen: SG&A increased to EUR 1.3 billion in 2025, which was about 4%. Net income for the full year was EUR 9.6 billion, 29.4% of net sales, resulting in an earnings per share of EUR 24.73. 2025, we generated free cash flow of EUR 11 billion. With that, I would like to turn to our expectations for the first quarter of 2026. We expect Q1 total net sales to be between EUR 8.2 billion and EUR 8.9 billion. We expect our Q1 installed base management sales to be around EUR 2.4 billion. Gross margin for Q1 is expected to be between 51% and 53%. Expected R&D expenses for Q1 are around EUR 1.2 billion, and SG&A is expected to be around EUR 0.3 billion.
SG&A increased to EUR 1.3 billion in 2025, which was about 4%. Net income for the full year was EUR 9.6 billion, 29.4% of net sales, resulting in an earnings per share of EUR 24.73. 2025, we generated free cash flow of EUR 11 billion. With that, I would like to turn to our expectations for the first quarter of 2026. We expect Q1 total net sales to be between EUR 8.2 billion and EUR 8.9 billion. We expect our Q1 installed base management sales to be around EUR 2.4 billion. Gross margin for Q1 is expected to be between 51% and 53%. Expected R&D expenses for Q1 are around EUR 1.2 billion, and SG&A is expected to be around EUR 0.3 billion.
Speaker #2: Net income for the full year was €9.6 billion, 29.4% of net sales, resulting in earnings per share of €24.73. In 2025, we generated free cash flow of €11 billion.
Speaker #2: With that, I would like to turn to our expectations for the first quarter of 2026. We expect Q1 total net sales to be between 8.2 billion euros and 8.9 billion euros.
Speaker #2: We expect our Q1 installed base management sales to be around 2.4 billion euros. Gross margin for Q1 is expected to be between 51 and 53%.
Speaker #2: Expected R&D expenses for Q1 are around 1.2 billion euros, and FG&A is expected to be around 0.3 billion euros. For the full year 2026, we expect net euros, with a gross margin of sales to be between 34 billion euros and 39 billion between 51 and 53%.
Roger Dassen: For the full year 2026, we expect net sales to be between EUR 34 billion and 39 billion, with a gross margin of between 51% and 53%. Regarding our cash return to our shareholders, in Q4, ASML's second interim dividend over 2025 of EUR 1.60 per ordinary share. ASML intends to declare a total dividend for the year 2025 of EUR 7.50 per ordinary share, which is a 17% increase compared to 2024. An interim dividend of EUR 1.60 per ordinary share will be made payable on 18 February 2026. Recognizing this interim dividend and the two interim dividends of EUR 1.60 per ordinary share paid in 2025, this leads to a total dividend, a final dividend proposal to the annual general meeting of EUR 2.70 per ordinary share.
For the full year 2026, we expect net sales to be between EUR 34 billion and 39 billion, with a gross margin of between 51% and 53%. Regarding our cash return to our shareholders, in Q4, ASML's second interim dividend over 2025 of EUR 1.60 per ordinary share. ASML intends to declare a total dividend for the year 2025 of EUR 7.50 per ordinary share, which is a 17% increase compared to 2024. An interim dividend of EUR 1.60 per ordinary share will be made payable on 18 February 2026. Recognizing this interim dividend and the two interim dividends of EUR 1.60 per ordinary share paid in 2025, this leads to a total dividend, a final dividend proposal to the annual general meeting of EUR 2.70 per ordinary share.
Speaker #2: Regarding our cash return to our shareholders in Q4, ASML's second interim dividend over 2025 is €1.60 per ordinary share. ASML intends to declare a total dividend for the year 2025 of €7.50 per ordinary share, which is a 17% increase compared to 2024.
Speaker #2: An interim dividend of 1.60 euro per ordinary share will be made payable on February 18, 2026. Recognizing this interim dividend and the two interim dividends of 1.60 euro per ordinary share paid in 2025, this leads to a total dividend, a final dividend proposal to the annual general meeting of 2.70 euros per ordinary share.
Speaker #2: In Q4 2025, we purchased shares for a total amount of around 1.7 billion euros. This program finished in December 2025 with a total of 7.6 billion euros, repurchased out of the up to 12 billion euro program.
Roger Dassen: In Q4 2025, we purchased shares for a total amount of around EUR 1.7 billion. This program finished in December 2025, with a total of EUR 7.6 billion repurchased out of the up to EUR 12 billion euro program. We returned EUR 8.5 billion to shareholders through a combination of dividends and share buybacks in 2025. ASML announced a new share buyback program, effective today, and to be executed by 31 December 2028. We intend to repurchase shares of an amount up to EUR 12 billion, of which we expect a total of up to EUR 2 million will be used to cover employee share plans. We intend to cancel the remainder of the shares repurchased. With that, I would like to turn the call back over to Christophe.
In Q4 2025, we purchased shares for a total amount of around EUR 1.7 billion. This program finished in December 2025, with a total of EUR 7.6 billion repurchased out of the up to EUR 12 billion euro program. We returned EUR 8.5 billion to shareholders through a combination of dividends and share buybacks in 2025. ASML announced a new share buyback program, effective today, and to be executed by 31 December 2028. We intend to repurchase shares of an amount up to EUR 12 billion, of which we expect a total of up to EUR 2 million will be used to cover employee share plans. We intend to cancel the remainder of the shares repurchased. With that, I would like to turn the call back over to Christophe.
Speaker #2: We returned 8.5 billion euros to shareholders through a combination of dividends and share buybacks in 2025. ASML announced a new share buyback program effective today and to be executed by December 31, 2028.
Speaker #2: We intend to repurchase shares for an amount up to €12 billion, of which we expect a total of up to €2 million will be used to cover employee share plans.
Speaker #2: We intend to cancel the remainder of the shares repurchased. With that, I would like to turn the call back over to Christophe. Thank you, Roger.
Christophe Fouquet: Thank you, Roger. As Roger has highlighted, we finished the year with a very strong quarter with good financial results. The market outlook has improved notably over the last months, especially as related to the continued buildup of data centers and AI-related infrastructure. This buildup is now translated into additional capacity needs at our advanced logic and DRAM customers, and in turn, an increased demand across our product portfolio, especially in our EUV business. Over the past quarters, we have seen a notable increase and acceleration of capacity expansion planning across a large majority of our customer base. In advanced logic, our foundry customers have become more positive on the long-term sustainability of demand on a number of fronts. AI accelerators are migrating from the 4-nanometer node to the more litho-intensive 3-nanometer node.
Christophe Fouquet: Thank you, Roger. As Roger has highlighted, we finished the year with a very strong quarter with good financial results. The market outlook has improved notably over the last months, especially as related to the continued buildup of data centers and AI-related infrastructure. This buildup is now translated into additional capacity needs at our advanced logic and DRAM customers, and in turn, an increased demand across our product portfolio, especially in our EUV business. Over the past quarters, we have seen a notable increase and acceleration of capacity expansion planning across a large majority of our customer base. In advanced logic, our foundry customers have become more positive on the long-term sustainability of demand on a number of fronts. AI accelerators are migrating from the 4-nanometer node to the more litho-intensive 3-nanometer node.
Speaker #3: As Roger has alighted, we finished the year with a very strong quarter with good financial results. The market outlook has improved notably over the last months, especially as related to the continued buildup of data centers and AI-related infrastructure.
Speaker #3: This buildup is now translated into additional capacity needs at our advanced logic and DRAM customers, and in turn, an increased demand across our product portfolio, especially in our EUV business.
Speaker #3: Over the past quarters, we have seen a notable increase in acceleration of capacity expansion planning across a large majority of our customer base. In advanced logic, our foundry customers have become more positive on the long-term sustainability of demand on a number of fronts.
Speaker #3: AI-accelerators are migrating from the 4-nanometer node to the more lithium-intensive 3-nanometer node. At the same time, customers continue to ramp the 2-nanometer node in support of next-generation HPC and mobile applications.
Christophe Fouquet: At the same time, customers continue to ramp the 2-nanometer node in support of next-generation HPC and mobile applications. In memory, our customers are reporting very strong demand for both HBM and DDR products, with supply remaining very tight through at least 2026, as they ramp both their 1B and 1C nodes in support of the demand. In addition, DRAM customers continue to adopt more EUV layers on those nodes. This is expected to continue on their future nodes as they migrate more multi-patterning Deep UV to single expose EUV, resulting in an increase in litho intensity. As a result of these dynamics, we see our customers in both segments increasing and accelerating capacity expansion plans to support the very strong demand they are seeing. We expect these investments to generate business for ASML in 2026 and beyond.
At the same time, customers continue to ramp the 2-nanometer node in support of next-generation HPC and mobile applications. In memory, our customers are reporting very strong demand for both HBM and DDR products, with supply remaining very tight through at least 2026, as they ramp both their 1B and 1C nodes in support of the demand. In addition, DRAM customers continue to adopt more EUV layers on those nodes. This is expected to continue on their future nodes as they migrate more multi-patterning Deep UV to single expose EUV, resulting in an increase in litho intensity. As a result of these dynamics, we see our customers in both segments increasing and accelerating capacity expansion plans to support the very strong demand they are seeing. We expect these investments to generate business for ASML in 2026 and beyond.
Speaker #3: In memory, our customers are reporting very strong demand for both HBM and DDR products, with supply remaining very tight through at least 2026 as they ramp both their 1B and 1C nodes in support of the demand.
Speaker #3: In addition, DRAM customers continue to adopt more EUV layers on those nodes. This is expected to continue on their future nodes as they migrate more multi-patterning DPUV to single-expose EUV.
Speaker #3: Resulting in an increase in lithium intensity. As a result of this dynamics, we see our customers in both segments increasing and accelerating capacity expansion plans to support the very strong demand they are seeing.
Speaker #3: We expect this investment to generate business for ASML in 2026 and beyond. Starting first with be up significantly this year EUV, we expect revenues to as a result of the dynamics in both advanced logic and DRAM.
Christophe Fouquet: Starting first with EUV, we expect revenues to be up significantly this year as a result of the dynamics in both advanced logic and DRAM. In non-EUV, we expect revenues for 2026 to be similar to last year's, as our advanced logic and memory customer expand capacity. As part of the outlook for non-EUV, we expect the China region share in our total net sales in 2026 to be in line with our current system backlog, which is around 20%. We also expect our metrology and inspection businesses to grow significantly as customers increasingly invest in enhancing their process control strategy. For installed base management, we expect another year of revenue growth.
Starting first with EUV, we expect revenues to be up significantly this year as a result of the dynamics in both advanced logic and DRAM. In non-EUV, we expect revenues for 2026 to be similar to last year's, as our advanced logic and memory customer expand capacity. As part of the outlook for non-EUV, we expect the China region share in our total net sales in 2026 to be in line with our current system backlog, which is around 20%. We also expect our metrology and inspection businesses to grow significantly as customers increasingly invest in enhancing their process control strategy. For installed base management, we expect another year of revenue growth.
Speaker #3: In non-EUV, we expect revenues for 2026 to be similar to last year's, as our advanced logic and memory customers expand capacity. As part of the outlook for non-EUV, we expect the China region share in our total net sales in 2026 to be in line with our current system backlog, which is around 20%.
Speaker #3: We also expect our metrology and inspection businesses to grow significantly as customers increasingly invest in enhancing their process control strategy. For install-based management, we expect another year of revenue growth.
Speaker #3: This is primarily the result of increasing service revenue from our growing install base of EUV systems and of our customer plans for performance upgrades to support their rapidly increasing capacity requirements.
Christophe Fouquet: This is primarily the result of increasing service revenue from our growing installed base of EUV systems and of our customers' plans for performance upgrades to support their rapidly increasing capacity requirements. Turning to technology. In EUV, we continue to make progress, driving down the cost of technology on our customers' most advanced processes. We ramped our NXE:3800E to 2025, and its productivity gains support further replacement of complex multi-patterning with single expose EUV for multiple layers on current and future DRAM. We also expect both immersion and EUV litho intensity to increase as customers migrate from 6F² technology to 4F² architectures. With regard to High NA, our customers are reporting good progress on their qualification of the technology for logic and DRAM applications in their R&D facilities.
This is primarily the result of increasing service revenue from our growing installed base of EUV systems and of our customers' plans for performance upgrades to support their rapidly increasing capacity requirements. Turning to technology. In EUV, we continue to make progress, driving down the cost of technology on our customers' most advanced processes. We ramped our NXE:3800E to 2025, and its productivity gains support further replacement of complex multi-patterning with single expose EUV for multiple layers on current and future DRAM. We also expect both immersion and EUV litho intensity to increase as customers migrate from 6F² technology to 4F² architectures. With regard to High NA, our customers are reporting good progress on their qualification of the technology for logic and DRAM applications in their R&D facilities.
Speaker #3: technology, in EUV, we continue to make Turning to progress, driving down the cost of technology on our customer most advanced processes. We ramped our NXE3800E to 2025, and its productivity gains support further replacement of complex multi-patterning with single-expose EUV.
Speaker #3: For multiple layers on current and future DRAM. We also expect both immersion and EUV lithium intensity to increase as customers migrate from 6F square technology to 4F square architectures.
Speaker #3: With regard to R&A, our customers are reporting good progress on their qualification of the technology for logic and DRAM applications in their R&D facilities.
Christophe Fouquet: Intel announced last month the qualification and acceptance of their EXE:5200B system, which will be used in high volume manufacturing for their leading-edge nodes. We expect more systems to be released to our customer in 2026, supporting their preparation for the insertion of High NA in high volume manufacturing. With the continuing increase of 3D structure in advanced logic and memory, we see more adoption of our multi E-beam inspection system to detect optically non-visible yield-limiting defects. Our progress on system maturity and productivity supports further use of this multi-beam system in high volume manufacturing on the most advanced nodes. In summary, our product portfolio roadmap remains focused on supporting the roadmap requirements of our customers and driving our overall competitiveness. We look forward to sharing more performance data at the SPIE Advanced Lithography Conference in February.
Intel announced last month the qualification and acceptance of their EXE:5200B system, which will be used in high volume manufacturing for their leading-edge nodes. We expect more systems to be released to our customer in 2026, supporting their preparation for the insertion of High NA in high volume manufacturing. With the continuing increase of 3D structure in advanced logic and memory, we see more adoption of our multi E-beam inspection system to detect optically non-visible yield-limiting defects. Our progress on system maturity and productivity supports further use of this multi-beam system in high volume manufacturing on the most advanced nodes. In summary, our product portfolio roadmap remains focused on supporting the roadmap requirements of our customers and driving our overall competitiveness. We look forward to sharing more performance data at the SPIE Advanced Lithography Conference in February.
Speaker #3: In Q4, we announced last month the qualification and acceptance of their use in high-volume manufacturing EXE5200B system, which will be for their leading-edge nodes. We expect more systems to be released to our customers in 2026, supporting their preparation for the insertion of R&A in high-volume manufacturing.
Speaker #3: With the continued increase of 3D structure in advanced logic and memory, we see more adoption of our multi-EBIM inspection system to detect optically non-visible yield-limiting defects.
Speaker #3: Our progress on system maturity and productivity supports further use of this multi-EBIM system in high-volume manufacturing on the most advanced nodes. In summary, our product portfolio roadmap remains focused on supporting the roadmap requirements of our customers and driving our overall competitiveness.
Speaker #3: We look forward to sharing more performance data at the SPIE Advanced Lithography Conference in February. Looking longer term, the last few months have confirmed a positive impact of AI on customer demand for our advanced product.
Christophe Fouquet: Looking longer term, the last few months have confirmed the positive impact of AI on customer demand for our advanced product, and especially for our EUV system. As we shared during our Capital Market Day in November 2024, we see the end market dynamics supporting a shift in product mix towards more demand for our advanced lithography products and an increase in litho intensity. The combination of our strong productivity roadmap on Low NA and the introduction of High NA supports further cost of technology reduction. It also supports the conversion of more multi-patterning Deep UV to single DUV exposure, especially on advanced DRAM nodes. In line with what we shared at the 2024 Capital Market Day, we expect a 2026 revenue opportunity between EUR 44 billion and 60 billion, with an expected gross margin between 56% and 60%.
Looking longer term, the last few months have confirmed the positive impact of AI on customer demand for our advanced product, and especially for our EUV system. As we shared during our Capital Market Day in November 2024, we see the end market dynamics supporting a shift in product mix towards more demand for our advanced lithography products and an increase in litho intensity. The combination of our strong productivity roadmap on Low NA and the introduction of High NA supports further cost of technology reduction. It also supports the conversion of more multi-patterning Deep UV to single DUV exposure, especially on advanced DRAM nodes. In line with what we shared at the 2024 Capital Market Day, we expect a 2026 revenue opportunity between EUR 44 billion and 60 billion, with an expected gross margin between 56% and 60%.
Speaker #3: Our EUV, and especially for system. As we shared during our Capital Market Day in November 2024, we see the end market dynamics supporting a shift in product mix towards more demand for our advanced lithography products and an increase in lithography intensity.
Speaker #3: The combination of our strong productivity roadmap on low NA and the introduction of high NA supports further cost of technology reduction. It also supports a conversion of more multi-patterning DUV to single EUV exposure, especially on advanced DRAM nodes.
Speaker #3: In line with what we shared at the 2024 Capital Market Day, we expect a 2000 revenue opportunity between €44 billion and €60 billion, with an expected gross margin between 56% and 60%.
Speaker #3: With that, we will be happy to take your
Christophe Fouquet: With that, we will be happy to take your question.
With that, we will be happy to take your question.
Speaker #3: Thank you, Roger, and thank you,
Jim Kavanagh: Thank you, Roger, and thank you, Christophe. Now, the operator will instruct everyone momentarily on the protocol for the Q&A session. Beforehand, I would like to ask that you kindly limit yourself to one question with one short follow-up, if necessary. This will allow us to get through as many callers as possible. Now, operator, could we have your final instruction and then the first question, please?
Jim Kavanagh: Thank you, Roger, and thank you, Christophe. Now, the operator will instruct everyone momentarily on the protocol for the Q&A session. Beforehand, I would like to ask that you kindly limit yourself to one question with one short follow-up, if necessary. This will allow us to get through as many callers as possible. Now, operator, could we have your final instruction and then the first question, please?
Speaker #1: Christophe. Now, the operator will instruct everyone momentarily on the protocol for the Q&A session. Beforehand, I would like to ask that you kindly limit yourself to one question with one short follow-up if necessary.
Speaker #1: This will allow us to get through as many callers as possible. Now, Operator, could we have your final instruction and then the first question,
Speaker #1: please? Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you need to press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. We are now going to proceed with our first question. Our first question comes from C.J. Muse from Cantor Fitzgerald. Please ask your question.
Operator: Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you need to press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. We are now going to proceed with our first question. Our first question comes from C.J. Muse from Cantor Fitzgerald. Please ask your question.
Speaker #2: As a reminder, to ask a question you need to press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again.
Speaker #2: We are now going to proceed with our first question. And our first questions come from CJ Muse from Canter Fitzgerald. Please ask your question.
Speaker #3: Yeah, good afternoon. Good morning. Thank you for taking the question. So I guess first question, trying to better understand your outlook for calendar '26.
[Analyst] (Cantor Fitzgerald): Yeah, good afternoon. Good morning, thank you for taking the question. So I guess first question, trying to better understand your outlook for calendar 2026. Based on your EUV bookings, it, it looks like you're entering the year with about 114 Low-NA tools, and your implied guide is about 56, you know, give or take, Low-NA. So is this a function of lack of certainty around the precise timing of clean room space adds? Are you facing challenges in sourcing lenses from Carl Zeiss? Are you seeing extension of lead times? Would love to hear your thoughts around those moving parts.
CJ Muse: Yeah, good afternoon. Good morning, thank you for taking the question. So I guess first question, trying to better understand your outlook for calendar 2026. Based on your EUV bookings, it, it looks like you're entering the year with about 114 Low-NA tools, and your implied guide is about 56, you know, give or take, Low-NA. So is this a function of lack of certainty around the precise timing of clean room space adds? Are you facing challenges in sourcing lenses from Carl Zeiss? Are you seeing extension of lead times? Would love to hear your thoughts around those moving parts.
Speaker #3: EUV bookings, it looks like you're entering the year with about 114 low Based on your NA tools. And your implied guide is about 56, give or take, low NA.
Speaker #3: So is this a function of lack of certainty around the precise timing of clean room space ads? Are you facing challenges in sourcing lenses from Carl Zeiss?
Speaker #3: Are you seeing an extension of lead times? I would love to hear your thoughts around those moving parts.
Speaker #4: Yeah, CJ, good morning to you. Indeed, I think it's a number of the things that just call out, right? So, obviously, we are ramping during the year to accommodate the demand that is there.
Roger Dassen: ... Yeah, C.J., good morning to you. Indeed, I think it's a number of the things that you just call out, right? So obviously we are ramping during the year to accommodate the demand is there. But the demand is also a little bit dependent on the progress that our customers are making in terms of the completion of their fabs during the year. So that's an important element in the bandwidth, if you like, of the guidance that we provide. So it's to a large extent driven by that. It's driven by our ability to execute and, you know, to continuously ramp or move rate, you know, quarter on quarter-on-quarter.
Roger Dassen: ... Yeah, C.J., good morning to you. Indeed, I think it's a number of the things that you just call out, right? So obviously we are ramping during the year to accommodate the demand is there. But the demand is also a little bit dependent on the progress that our customers are making in terms of the completion of their fabs during the year. So that's an important element in the bandwidth, if you like, of the guidance that we provide. So it's to a large extent driven by that. It's driven by our ability to execute and, you know, to continuously ramp or move rate, you know, quarter on quarter-on-quarter.
Speaker #4: But the demand is also a little bit dependent on the progress that our customers are making in terms of the completion of their fabs during the year.
Speaker #4: So that's an important element in the bandwidth, if you like, of the guidance that we provide. So to a large extent, it's driven by that.
Speaker #4: Ability to execute, and it's driven by our continuously ramp, or move rate, quarter on quarter. Those, I would say, are the most important drivers of the corridor that you just alluded to.
Roger Dassen: Those, I would say, are the most important drivers of the corridor that you just alluded to.
Those, I would say, are the most important drivers of the corridor that you just alluded to.
Speaker #3: Great. Thanks. And as a follow-up, I guess on the high NA side, is there any change in terms of your vision for revenuing four to seven tools in calendar '26?
[Analyst] (Cantor Fitzgerald): Great, thanks. And as a follow-up, I guess on the High-NA side, you know, is there any change in terms of your vision for revenuing 4 to 7 tools in calendar 2026? And then, more importantly, how are you thinking about adoption? Do you think there's an opportunity for follow-on High-NA orders in the second half? And could we be surprised by seeing DRAM adopt sooner than logic? Thanks so much.
CJ Muse: Great, thanks. And as a follow-up, I guess on the High-NA side, you know, is there any change in terms of your vision for revenuing 4 to 7 tools in calendar 2026? And then, more importantly, how are you thinking about adoption? Do you think there's an opportunity for follow-on High-NA orders in the second half? And could we be surprised by seeing DRAM adopt sooner than logic? Thanks so much.
Speaker #3: And then more importantly, how are you thinking about adoption? Do you think there's an opportunity for follow-on high NA orders in the second half?
Speaker #3: And could we be surprised by seeing DRAM adopt sooner than logic? Thanks so much.
Speaker #4: Well, I think there's no major changes compared to what we discussed last quarter, CJ. So I think that, in terms of adoption—I mentioned it—we continue to see good progress, customer.
Roger Dassen: Well, I think there's no major changes compared to what we discussed last quarter, C.J. So I think that in terms of adoption, I mentioned it, we continue to see good progress at both DRAM and logic customers. I think some of our customers are even starting to play with limited product wafers to see the performance of the tool, which is good news. We still expect, you know, a lot of those qualification data collections to last most of the year, which means that when it comes to decisions for insertion new orders, we indeed look at the second half of this year, 2027.
Roger Dassen: Well, I think there's no major changes compared to what we discussed last quarter, C.J. So I think that in terms of adoption, I mentioned it, we continue to see good progress at both DRAM and logic customers. I think some of our customers are even starting to play with limited product wafers to see the performance of the tool, which is good news. We still expect, you know, a lot of those qualification data collections to last most of the year, which means that when it comes to decisions for insertion new orders, we indeed look at the second half of this year, 2027.
Speaker #4: I think some of our customers are even starting to play with limited product wafer to see the performance of the tool, which is a good news.
Speaker #4: We still expect a lot of those qualification data collection to last most of the year, which means that when it comes to decision for insertion new order, we indeed look at the second half of this year 2027.
Roger Dassen: On the question, you know, if it's going to be DRAM and logic first, I think, well, it's a bit of a neck and neck race right now, so hard to say. We see really good progress on both and the appetite to test the technology, I would say, in the coming months, sorry, on the, again, on product in both DRAM and logic customer.
On the question, you know, if it's going to be DRAM and logic first, I think, well, it's a bit of a neck and neck race right now, so hard to say. We see really good progress on both and the appetite to test the technology, I would say, in the coming months, sorry, on the, again, on product in both DRAM and logic customer.
Speaker #4: On the question, if it's going to be DRAM and logic first, I think, well, it's a bit of a neck-and-neck race right now. So, hard to say.
Speaker #4: We see really good progress on both. And the appetite to test the technology, I would say, in the coming months, sorry, on, again, on product in both DRAM and logic customer.
Speaker #3: Thank you.
[Analyst] (Cantor Fitzgerald): Thank you.
CJ Muse: Thank you.
Roger Dassen: And maybe a final comment to C.J., 'cause you referenced, I think, 114 tools in the backlog, if I...
Roger Dassen: And maybe a final comment to C.J., 'cause you referenced, I think, 114 tools in the backlog, if I...
Speaker #4: comment, CJ, because you referenced, I think, 114 tools in the And maybe a final backlog, if I stitch you correctly. On EUV, I would tell you, I think that's a little bit on the high end at 25 and a half billion of total value of EUV.
[Analyst] (Cantor Fitzgerald): Yeah
CJ Muse: Yeah
Roger Dassen: ... fit you correctly on EUV. I would tell you, I think that's a little bit on the high end at EUR 25.5 billion of total value of EUV. I think, and that obviously includes also high-NA. You might be a little bit on the high end of your unit number there.
Roger Dassen: ... fit you correctly on EUV. I would tell you, I think that's a little bit on the high end at EUR 25.5 billion of total value of EUV. I think, and that obviously includes also high-NA. You might be a little bit on the high end of your unit number there.
Speaker #4: I think, and that obviously includes also high-NA. You might be a little bit on the high end of your unit number.
Speaker #2: We are now going to proceed with our next question. And the next questions come from the line of Joe Quattrocchi from Wells Fargo. Please ask your question.
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The next question comes from the line of Joe Quatrochi from Wells Fargo. Please ask your question.
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The next question comes from the line of Joe Quatrochi from Wells Fargo. Please ask your question.
Speaker #3: Yeah, thanks for taking the questions. I guess I wanted to just go back to the 2026 kind of revenue growth guidance. If I look at the range between 4% and 19% growth, what type of those variables, I guess, are ASML-controlled versus your
[Analyst] (Wells Fargo): Yeah, thanks for taking the question. I guess I wanted to just go back to the 2026 kind of revenue growth guidance. If I look at the range, you know, between 4% and 19% growth, what type of those variables, I guess, are ASML controlled versus your customers controlled?
Joe Quatrochi: Yeah, thanks for taking the question. I guess I wanted to just go back to the 2026 kind of revenue growth guidance. If I look at the range, you know, between 4% and 19% growth, what type of those variables, I guess, are ASML controlled versus your customers controlled?
Speaker #3: customers-controlled? Joe, I think I just said it,
Roger Dassen: Joe, I think I just said it, right? I mean, it's obviously to a very large extent driven by the progress that our customers are making in completing the fabs and their ability to take in the tools. So that's a significant one in terms of, you know, whether the demand falls in 2026 or whether it falls a little bit beyond 2026. And then, of course, there is our ability to execute. But it all starts with the ability of our customers to get the fabs in order and the epitaxials in order in due time. So it's a bit of a combination of both, I would argue.
Roger Dassen: Joe, I think I just said it, right? I mean, it's obviously to a very large extent driven by the progress that our customers are making in completing the fabs and their ability to take in the tools. So that's a significant one in terms of, you know, whether the demand falls in 2026 or whether it falls a little bit beyond 2026. And then, of course, there is our ability to execute. But it all starts with the ability of our customers to get the fabs in order and the epitaxials in order in due time. So it's a bit of a combination of both, I would argue.
Speaker #4: right? I mean, it's obviously to a very large extent driven by the progress that our customers are making in completing the fabs. And their ability to take in the tools.
Speaker #4: So that's a significant one in terms of whether the demand falls in '26 or whether it falls a little bit beyond '26. And then, of course, there is our ability to execute.
Speaker #4: But it all starts with our ability with the ability of our customers to get the fabs in order and the pedestals in order in due time.
Speaker #4: So it's a bit of a combination of both, I would
Speaker #4: argue. Okay.
[Analyst] (Wells Fargo): Okay. So, I guess just, yeah, maybe as a follow-up, just can you remind us just how do we think about the manufacturing capacity capabilities, the, in terms of just, like, the number of low-NA EUV tools? I know you've had some targets out there, you know, from some analyst days previously, but maybe just an update there.
Joe Quatrochi: Okay. So, I guess just, yeah, maybe as a follow-up, just can you remind us just how do we think about the manufacturing capacity capabilities, the, in terms of just, like, the number of low-NA EUV tools? I know you've had some targets out there, you know, from some analyst days previously, but maybe just an update there.
Speaker #3: So I guess just maybe as a follow-up, just can you remind us just how do we think about the manufacturing capacity capabilities in terms of just the number of low NA EUV tools?
Speaker #3: I know analysts days previously. But maybe just an update there.
Speaker #4: Yeah, Joe. So what we've done, and this is the way we talked about it in the past, we have put in infrastructure such that we can respond, let's say, within 12 months or a little over that to demand.
Roger Dassen: Yeah, Joe, so what we've done, and this is the way we talked about it in the past, we have put in, you know, infrastructure such that we can respond, let's say, within 12 months or a little over that to demand. So that means that what we call the long lead time items, anything that takes, you know, a lot longer than, let's say, 12 to 18 months, that is in place. So we have our clean room in place, we have the equipment in place, et cetera, et cetera. So now what we're doing, you know, based on the stronger demand signals as we've gotten them in the past couple of months, now we're ramping up our capacity.
Roger Dassen: Yeah, Joe, so what we've done, and this is the way we talked about it in the past, we have put in, you know, infrastructure such that we can respond, let's say, within 12 months or a little over that to demand. So that means that what we call the long lead time items, anything that takes, you know, a lot longer than, let's say, 12 to 18 months, that is in place. So we have our clean room in place, we have the equipment in place, et cetera, et cetera. So now what we're doing, you know, based on the stronger demand signals as we've gotten them in the past couple of months, now we're ramping up our capacity.
Speaker #4: So that means that what we call the long lead time items, anything that takes a lot longer than, let's say, 12 to 18 months, that is in place.
Speaker #4: So we have our clean room in place. We have the equipment in place. Etc., etc. So now what we're doing, based on the stronger demand signals as we've gotten them in the past couple of months, now we're ramping up our capacity.
Speaker #4: Now, you will appreciate you won't move from 44 EUV tools in one year to, I'm just throwing it out, 80 tools in the year thereafter, right?
Roger Dassen: Now, you will appreciate, you won't move from 44 EUV tools in one year to, I'm just throwing it out, 80 tools in the year thereafter, right? So obviously, that's a gradual process, and that's a process that we're doing. So you will see us increase our move rate quarter-over-quarter. So, training, getting the people in, training the people, et cetera, et cetera. And then that way, quarter-over-quarter, you will see an increase on the move rate, and we will do that hand in hand with our supply chain. So you will see the move rate increase during 2026, and in all likelihood what we're seeing today is sustainable. You will continue to see that also beyond 2026.
Now, you will appreciate, you won't move from 44 EUV tools in one year to, I'm just throwing it out, 80 tools in the year thereafter, right? So obviously, that's a gradual process, and that's a process that we're doing. So you will see us increase our move rate quarter-over-quarter. So, training, getting the people in, training the people, et cetera, et cetera. And then that way, quarter-over-quarter, you will see an increase on the move rate, and we will do that hand in hand with our supply chain. So you will see the move rate increase during 2026, and in all likelihood what we're seeing today is sustainable. You will continue to see that also beyond 2026.
Speaker #4: So obviously, that's a gradual process. And that's a process that we're doing. So you will see a C increase our move rate quarter on quarter.
Speaker #4: So, training, getting the people in, training the people, etc., etc. And in that way, quarter on quarter, you will see an increase in the move rate.
Speaker #4: And we will do that hand in hand with our supply chain. So you will see the move rate increase during 2026. And in all likelihood of what we're seeing today, is sustainable.
Speaker #4: You will continue to see that also
Speaker #4: '26. Thank You're
[Analyst] (Wells Fargo): Thank you.
Joe Quatrochi: Thank you.
Speaker #3: you.
Roger Dassen: You're welcome.
Roger Dassen: You're welcome.
Speaker #2: We will now take our welcome. Next question. And the question comes from the line of Andrew Gardner from Citi. Please ask your—
Operator: We will now take our next question. The question's come from the line of Andrew Gardner from Citi. Please ask your question.
Operator: We will now take our next question. The question's come from the line of Andrew Gardner from Citi. Please ask your question.
Speaker #2: question.
[Analyst] (Citi): Thanks very much. Good afternoon, everybody. Christophe, Roger, you, you've spoken today about the customers' medium-term plans being revised up. I mean, we can see that too in their public statements around revenue growth and CapEx for the coming years, in particular from your, your biggest customer in TSMC, who said CapEx will be significantly higher for the next few years. And some of that's quite clearly reflected in the record order intake that you just reported, but also quite clearly, not all of it. I'm just wondering, in terms of the plans you just outlined, Roger, in terms of increasing that move rate over the coming quarters, how much more visibility are the customers providing you in terms of the equipment needs for next year and the year after?
Speaker #5: Thanks very much. Good afternoon,
Andrew Gardiner: Thanks very much. Good afternoon, everybody. Christophe, Roger, you, you've spoken today about the customers' medium-term plans being revised up. I mean, we can see that too in their public statements around revenue growth and CapEx for the coming years, in particular from your, your biggest customer in TSMC, who said CapEx will be significantly higher for the next few years. And some of that's quite clearly reflected in the record order intake that you just reported, but also quite clearly, not all of it. I'm just wondering, in terms of the plans you just outlined, Roger, in terms of increasing that move rate over the coming quarters, how much more visibility are the customers providing you in terms of the equipment needs for next year and the year after?
Speaker #5: everybody. Christoph, Roger, you've spoken today about the customers' medium-term plans being revised up. I mean, we can see that too in their public statements around revenue growth and CapEx for the coming years, in particular from your biggest customer in TSMC, who said CapEx will be significantly higher for the next few years.
Speaker #5: And I mean, some of that's quite clearly reflected in the record order intake that you've just reported, but also, quite clearly, not all of it.
Speaker #5: And I'm just wondering in terms of the plans you just outlined, Roger, in terms of increasing that move rate over the coming quarters, how much more visibility are the customers providing you in terms of the equipment needs for next year and the year after?
[Analyst] (Citi): I mean, no, no one wants to be the bottleneck in the kind of, you know, growth that we're seeing in this industry, and I presume that goes for you guys as well, and you must be having those conversations with the customers. So can you give us any insight as to how that visibility is improving into next year and the year after?
Speaker #5: I mean, no one wants to be the bottleneck in the kind of growth that we're seeing in this industry. And I presume that goes for you guys as well.
I mean, no, no one wants to be the bottleneck in the kind of, you know, growth that we're seeing in this industry, and I presume that goes for you guys as well, and you must be having those conversations with the customers. So can you give us any insight as to how that visibility is improving into next year and the year after?
Speaker #5: And you must be having those conversations with the customers, so can you give us any insight as to how that visibility is improving into next year and the year after?
Roger Dassen: I think the public commentary of customers on, you know, the sustainability of the, particularly the AI related demand that they see on advanced logic and on memory. I think they also share that in the conversations with us. And of course, that also translates into indications that they provide to us, either for very concrete orders or what we call from demand, so their indication of how they see the demand develop. You know, I think the order intake in Q4 is strong evidence of that conversation, and that it's not just a conversation, but that they're actually also, you know, putting evidence and money into that.
Speaker #4: I think the public commentary of customers on the sustainability of, particularly, the AI-related demand that they see on advanced logic and on memory—I think they also share that in the conversations with us.
Roger Dassen: I think the public commentary of customers on, you know, the sustainability of the, particularly the AI related demand that they see on advanced logic and on memory. I think they also share that in the conversations with us. And of course, that also translates into indications that they provide to us, either for very concrete orders or what we call from demand, so their indication of how they see the demand develop. You know, I think the order intake in Q4 is strong evidence of that conversation, and that it's not just a conversation, but that they're actually also, you know, putting evidence and money into that.
Speaker #4: And of course, that also translates into indications that they provide to us either for very concrete orders or what we call from demand. So their indication of how they see the demand develop.
Speaker #4: I think the order intake in Q4, I think, is strong evidence of that conversation. And that it's not just a conversation, but that there are actually also putting evidence and money into that.
Speaker #4: But they're also talking beyond this year, about what their expectations are I would say in particularly for '27. So our move rate plans that we have also takes that element into consideration.
Roger Dassen: But they're also talking, you know, beyond this year, about what their expectations are, I would say in particular for 2027. So our move rate plans that we have also takes that element into consideration. So what they tell us, I think, directionally is very much in line with what they say publicly, but of course, they also, you know, give us a strong indication of how they see their demand develop year on year.
But they're also talking, you know, beyond this year, about what their expectations are, I would say in particular for 2027. So our move rate plans that we have also takes that element into consideration. So what they tell us, I think, directionally is very much in line with what they say publicly, but of course, they also, you know, give us a strong indication of how they see their demand develop year on year.
Speaker #4: So what they tell us, I think, direction is very much in line with what they say publicly, but of course, they also give us a strong indication of how they see their demand develop year on year.
Speaker #3: And maybe the ones you got to add to that, Andrew, is you have to be aware that so you have seen indeed our customer moving being far more vocal about their capacity planning.
Christophe Fouquet: And maybe the one thing I'd add to that, Andrew, I think you have to be aware that, so you have seen indeed our customer moving, being far more vocal about their capacity planning. I think this has been also the results of many, many discussion with their customer, which are also providing, I would say, this midterm demand. So what we have seen really in the last three months in the alignment between the different parties that, you know, on the midterm, as Roger explained, we see basically a strong buildup of demand. And we have got many, many proof of that, also in the last few weeks, coming out of either Logic or DRAM customer.
Christophe Fouquet: And maybe the one thing I'd add to that, Andrew, I think you have to be aware that, so you have seen indeed our customer moving, being far more vocal about their capacity planning. I think this has been also the results of many, many discussion with their customer, which are also providing, I would say, this midterm demand. So what we have seen really in the last three months in the alignment between the different parties that, you know, on the midterm, as Roger explained, we see basically a strong buildup of demand. And we have got many, many proof of that, also in the last few weeks, coming out of either Logic or DRAM customer.
Speaker #3: I think this has been also the result of many, many discussions with their customer, which are also providing, I would say, this midterm demand.
Speaker #3: So what we have seen really in the last three months in alignment between the different parties that on the midterm, as Roger explained, we see basically a strong build-up of demand.
Speaker #3: And we have got many, many proof of that also in the last few weeks coming out of either logic or DRAM customers. So I think it took a bit of why to really get to that point.
Christophe Fouquet: So I think it took a bit of while to really get to that point, but we really see that happening very strongly in the last few weeks. And I think this is aligned across a large part of the ecosystem.
So I think it took a bit of while to really get to that point, but we really see that happening very strongly in the last few weeks. And I think this is aligned across a large part of the ecosystem.
Speaker #3: Very strongly in the last few weeks. And I think this— but we really see that happening as a line across a large part of the ecosystem.
Speaker #5: Thanks very
[Analyst] (Citi): Thanks very much.
Andrew Gardiner: Thanks very much.
Speaker #2: We are now going to proceed with our next question. And the questions come from the line of Alexander Duval from Goldman Sachs. Please ask your
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Alexander Duval from Goldman Sachs. Please ask your question.
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Alexander Duval from Goldman Sachs. Please ask your question.
Speaker #2: question. Yes.
[Analyst] (Goldman Sachs): Yes, thank you very much, indeed, for the question. Firstly, on 2026, I wanted to just go back to assumptions for the top end of your sales guidance. I was curious to what extent that would assume that China is meaningfully down. And then going back to the discussion about long-term capacity, you've obviously talked about customers being more confident on midterm demand, and the longer term situation. I think in the capacity planning you've done in the past, you talked about 80 to 90 EUV tools. But if we think very much towards the 2030 timeframe, the kind of plans that the customers, customers are talking about would imply something bigger than that.
Alexander Duval: Yes, thank you very much, indeed, for the question. Firstly, on 2026, I wanted to just go back to assumptions for the top end of your sales guidance. I was curious to what extent that would assume that China is meaningfully down. And then going back to the discussion about long-term capacity, you've obviously talked about customers being more confident on midterm demand, and the longer term situation. I think in the capacity planning you've done in the past, you talked about 80 to 90 EUV tools. But if we think very much towards the 2030 timeframe, the kind of plans that the customers, customers are talking about would imply something bigger than that.
Speaker #6: Thank you very much, indeed, for the question. Firstly, on 2026, I wanted to just go back to assumptions for the top end of your sales guidance.
Speaker #6: I was curious to what extent that would assume that China is meaningfully down. And then, going back to the discussion about long-term capacity, you’ve obviously talked about customers being more confident on midterm demand.
Speaker #6: And the longer-term situation—I think in the capacity planning you've done in the past, you talked about 80 to 90 EUV tools. But if we think very much towards the 2030 timeframe, the kind of plans that the customers' customers are talking about would imply something bigger than that.
[Analyst] (Goldman Sachs): So what kind of lead time would be required for you to push beyond that kind of outcome? And would there be other means through which you could deliver the capacity needed, for example, making your tools more productive by investing in R&D? Thanks very much.
Speaker #6: So what kind of lead time would be required for you to push beyond that kind of outcome? And would there be other means through which you could deliver the capacity needed?
So what kind of lead time would be required for you to push beyond that kind of outcome? And would there be other means through which you could deliver the capacity needed, for example, making your tools more productive by investing in R&D? Thanks very much.
Speaker #6: For example, making your tools more productive by investing in R&D. Thank you very much.
Speaker #6: much.
Speaker #4: So when it comes to
Roger Dassen: So when it comes to the top end of the expectation, you know, when we talk about China being at 20% of sales, I would argue that's across the entire range, right? So, so which obviously means that if we're talking about EUR 39 billion, you're looking at approximately EUR 8 billion of China. So I would say that probably our expectation on China probably moves with that. If you look at what are the key expectations on the upside of that, well, A, as we just said, it means that our customers indeed are, you know, are able to take our tools, that we're able to execute on as we currently plan.
Roger Dassen: So when it comes to the top end of the expectation, you know, when we talk about China being at 20% of sales, I would argue that's across the entire range, right? So, so which obviously means that if we're talking about EUR 39 billion, you're looking at approximately EUR 8 billion of China. So I would say that probably our expectation on China probably moves with that. If you look at what are the key expectations on the upside of that, well, A, as we just said, it means that our customers indeed are, you know, are able to take our tools, that we're able to execute on as we currently plan.
Speaker #4: the top end of the expectation, when we talk about China being 20% of sales, I would argue that's across the entire range, right? So which obviously means that if we're talking about 39 billion, you're looking at approximately 8 billion of China.
Speaker #4: So I would say that probably our expectation on China probably moves with that. If you look at what are the key expectations on the upside of that, well, A, as we just said, it means that our customers indeed are able to take our tools, that we're able to execute on it as we currently plan.
Speaker #4: And probably also that the and probably also that the install-based business is running on all cylinders, particularly on upgrades, which is not illogical because upgrades obviously are in very high demand right now because it's the easiest, fastest, and most effective way for customers to get additional capacity, which in the current market is obviously very, very important to them.
Roger Dassen: And probably also that the install base business is running on all cylinders, particularly on upgrades, which is not illogical, because upgrades obviously are in very high demand right now. Because it's the easiest, fastest, and most effective way for customers to get additional capacity, which in the current market is obviously very, very important to them. So those would be the key elements that I would say that would drive that. And, you know, in that model, you could also envisage a China market at 20% of that total sales number. When you talk about the long-term demand, let me make a few comments, and then Christophe, maybe you can weigh in.
And probably also that the install base business is running on all cylinders, particularly on upgrades, which is not illogical, because upgrades obviously are in very high demand right now. Because it's the easiest, fastest, and most effective way for customers to get additional capacity, which in the current market is obviously very, very important to them. So those would be the key elements that I would say that would drive that. And, you know, in that model, you could also envisage a China market at 20% of that total sales number. When you talk about the long-term demand, let me make a few comments, and then Christophe, maybe you can weigh in.
Speaker #4: So those would be the key elements that I would say that would drive that. And in that model, you could also envisage a China market at 20% of that total sales number.
Speaker #4: When you talk about the long-term demand, let me—you can weigh in. I'll make a few comments and then, Christoph, maybe. First, you should not forget that when we get to the 2030 timeframe, obviously at that stage, yes, we're looking at low NA, but we're also definitely looking at high NA.
Roger Dassen: First, you should not forget that when we get to the 2030 timeframe, obviously at that stage, yes, we're looking at Low NA, but we're also definitely looking at High NA. The Low NA tools that we would be providing at that point in time would of course be Low NA tools with, again, a higher throughput than what we have today. So back to your question on R&D, absolutely, you know, we will continue to push the roadmap on our Low NA tools and continue to drive a capacity such that per tool, you know, the customers get more productivity than what they get today.
First, you should not forget that when we get to the 2030 timeframe, obviously at that stage, yes, we're looking at Low NA, but we're also definitely looking at High NA. The Low NA tools that we would be providing at that point in time would of course be Low NA tools with, again, a higher throughput than what we have today. So back to your question on R&D, absolutely, you know, we will continue to push the roadmap on our Low NA tools and continue to drive a capacity such that per tool, you know, the customers get more productivity than what they get today.
Speaker #4: And the low in A tools that we would be providing at that point in time would, of course, be low in A tools with, again, a higher throughput than what we have today.
Speaker #4: So back to your question on R&D, absolutely. We will continue to push the roadmap on our low in A tools and continue to drive capacity such that per tool the customers get more productivity than what they get today.
Speaker #4: But also, at that stage, we expect a more meaningful number of high-NA tools that would provide significant additional output capacity. And in that combination, I think the numbers that you were just throwing out, I think, will provide output capability to customers way ahead of the numbers that we're talking about today.
Roger Dassen: But also, at that stage, we expect, you know, a more meaningful number of High NA tools that would provide significant additional output capacity. And in that combination, you know, I, I think the numbers that you were just throwing out, I think will provide, you know, output capability to customers way ahead of, the numbers that we're talking about today.
But also, at that stage, we expect, you know, a more meaningful number of High NA tools that would provide significant additional output capacity. And in that combination, you know, I, I think the numbers that you were just throwing out, I think will provide, you know, output capability to customers way ahead of, the numbers that we're talking about today.
Speaker #3: Yeah, so I think Roger said it all. I think the way we're summarizing it is that we have, I would say, the flexibility to react to the development of the market.
Christophe Fouquet: Yes, I think Roger said it all. I think the way I would summarize it is that we have, I would say, the flexibility to react to the development of the market. I think we talked about, you know, mid short term, already. I think it's also true in the long term. And yeah, Roger is right. The contribution of High NA, the work we continue to do on productivity, we already planned for that, will give us even additional flexibility. So with the step we have done on our capability on EUV, DUV in the last few years, which you remember, we did execute, despite the fact that maybe the demand was a bit lower at some point, we have created basically the right flexibility to see the market coming.
Christophe Fouquet: Yes, I think Roger said it all. I think the way I would summarize it is that we have, I would say, the flexibility to react to the development of the market. I think we talked about, you know, mid short term, already. I think it's also true in the long term. And yeah, Roger is right. The contribution of High NA, the work we continue to do on productivity, we already planned for that, will give us even additional flexibility. So with the step we have done on our capability on EUV, DUV in the last few years, which you remember, we did execute, despite the fact that maybe the demand was a bit lower at some point, we have created basically the right flexibility to see the market coming.
Speaker #3: I think we talked about short-term already. I think it's also true in the long term. And yeah, Roger is right. The contribution of high in A, the work we continue to do on productivity, we already planned for that.
Speaker #3: We'll give us even additional flexibility. So with the steps we have done on our capability on EUV, DUV in the last few years—which you remember we did execute, despite the fact that maybe the demand was a bit lower at some point.
Speaker #3: We have created basically the right flexibility to see the market
Speaker #3: coming. Thanks
Roger Dassen: Thanks very much.
Alexander Duval: Thanks very much.
Speaker #6: very
Speaker #6: Much. We are now going to proceed with...
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Krish Sankar from TD Cowen. Please ask your question.
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Krish Sankar from TD Cowen. Please ask your question.
Speaker #2: our next question. And the questions come from the line of Krishankar from TD Cowan. Please ask your question.
[Analyst] (TD Cowen): Yeah, hi, thanks for taking my question. I have two of them. First one, Roger, I'd like to reconcile your bookings between EUV and memory. Typically, memory has been 30% of the EUV mix, so it looks like a big jump in the memory orders last quarter was driven by DUV. Is that fair? And then on EUV for memory, for a 1C node DDR5, are we talking about 7 to 8 EUV exposures or lower than that? And then I had a follow-up.
Krish Sankar: Yeah, hi, thanks for taking my question. I have two of them. First one, Roger, I'd like to reconcile your bookings between EUV and memory. Typically, memory has been 30% of the EUV mix, so it looks like a big jump in the memory orders last quarter was driven by DUV. Is that fair? And then on EUV for memory, for a 1C node DDR5, are we talking about 7 to 8 EUV exposures or lower than that? And then I had a follow-up.
Speaker #7: them. First one, Roger forgot to Yeah. reconcile your bookings between EUV and Hi, thanks for doing my question. I have two of memory typically memory has been 30% of the EUV mix.
Speaker #7: So it looks like a big jump in the memory orders last quarter was driven by DPUV. Is that fair? And then on EUV for memory, for 1C, no DDR5.
Speaker #7: Are we talking about 7 to 8 EUV exposures or lower than that? And then I had a
Speaker #7: follow-up. Let me take the first one and Christoph can
Roger Dassen: Let me take the first one, and Christophe can take the second one. No, I think the order intake, you know, for memory is strong, but not just the DUV, also EUV. And in all likelihood, if we look at the composition of our sales in 2026, you will see a major memory play in there. So the demand in 2026 is far more balanced in terms of logic versus memory than it was in 2025. So that's what you see. But this is not just DUV, this is definitely also EUV.
Roger Dassen: Let me take the first one, and Christophe can take the second one. No, I think the order intake, you know, for memory is strong, but not just the DUV, also EUV. And in all likelihood, if we look at the composition of our sales in 2026, you will see a major memory play in there. So the demand in 2026 is far more balanced in terms of logic versus memory than it was in 2025. So that's what you see. But this is not just DUV, this is definitely also EUV.
Speaker #4: take the second one. No, I think the order intake for memory is strong. But not just DPUV, also EUV. And in all likelihood, if we look at the composition of our sales in 2026, you will see a major memory play in there.
Speaker #4: So the demand in '26 is far more balanced in terms of logic versus memory than it was in 2025. So that's what you see.
Speaker #4: But this is not just DPUV, this is definitely also
Speaker #4: EUV. Yeah.
Christophe Fouquet: Yeah, and I think on EUV, I think when it comes to DRAM, I think we are going to benefit both from, of course, the demand for capacity, which we already discussed, is very strong, you know, this year, most probably beyond that. And, you know, we have been talking about the number of EUV layers increasing on DRAM. This has been one of our focus. We have seen that happening in 2025. We continue to see that happening and mentioned it in the introduction on 6F², but also on 4F². And this is a bit what I would call the perfect storm, because when it comes to EUV, as a result, DRAM share most probably will increase over time.
Yeah, and I think on EUV, I think when it comes to DRAM, I think we are going to benefit both from, of course, the demand for capacity, which we already discussed, is very strong, you know, this year, most probably beyond that. And, you know, we have been talking about the number of EUV layers increasing on DRAM. This has been one of our focus. We have seen that happening in 2025. We continue to see that happening and mentioned it in the introduction on 6F², but also on 4F². And this is a bit what I would call the perfect storm, because when it comes to EUV, as a result, DRAM share most probably will increase over time.
Speaker #3: think on EUV, I think when it comes And I to DRAM, I think we are going to benefit both from, of course, the demand for capacity, which we already discussed is very probably beyond that.
Speaker #3: strong. This year, most And we've been talking about the number of EUV layers increasing on DRAM. This has been one of our focus. We have seen that happening in 2025.
Speaker #3: We continue to see that happening. I mentioned it in the introduction. On 6F Square, but also on 4F Square, and this is a bit what I would call the perfect storm because when it comes to EUV, as a result, DRAM share most probably will increase over time.
Christophe Fouquet: So this, this is a very good dynamic on DRAM, which again, based on all the work we do with our customer discussion we have, we don't see stopping. So there's still some leeway for more EUV layers, for more litho intensity on DRAM for sure, and we should benefit from that in the years to come.
So this, this is a very good dynamic on DRAM, which again, based on all the work we do with our customer discussion we have, we don't see stopping. So there's still some leeway for more EUV layers, for more litho intensity on DRAM for sure, and we should benefit from that in the years to come.
Speaker #3: So this is a very good dynamic on DRAM. Which, again, based on all the work we do with our customer discussion we have, we don't see stopping.
Speaker #3: So there's still some lead way for more EUV layers for more lithium intensity on DRAM for sure. And we should benefit from that in the years to
Speaker #3: come.
Speaker #7: Got it, got it. Another quick follow-up—sorry to get back to this manufacturing capacity. Is
[Analyst] (TD Cowen): Got it. Got it. And then as a quick follow-up, sorry, to get back to this manufacturing capacity. Is it fair to assume your EUV manufacturing capacity is around maybe 70 units? And does that potentially constrain your growth next year? The reason I'm asking is that, is your manufacturing capacity limit causing movement of tools between this year and next year, leading to a wide range of revenue guides for 2026?
Krish Sankar: Got it. Got it. And then as a quick follow-up, sorry, to get back to this manufacturing capacity. Is it fair to assume your EUV manufacturing capacity is around maybe 70 units? And does that potentially constrain your growth next year? The reason I'm asking is that, is your manufacturing capacity limit causing movement of tools between this year and next year, leading to a wide range of revenue guides for 2026?
Speaker #7: Is it fair to assume your EUV manufacturing capacity is around maybe 70 units? And does that potentially constrain your growth next year? The reason I'm asking is, is your manufacturing capacity limit causing movement of tools between this year and next year?
Speaker #7: Leading to a wide range of revenue guides for '26?
Speaker #3: Yeah, Chris, as I said, our capacity is very dynamic because you cannot move from one point to the other just like that in one quarter, right?
Roger Dassen: Yeah, Krish, as I said, our capacity is very dynamic because we cannot move from one point to the other just like that in one quarter, right? So that's why I said, you know, we had 44 units, revenue units of EUV, low NA last year. You cannot go from one quarter to the other, even from one year to the other, from 44 to 80. So we will crank it up. Every quarter, you will see us increase move rate, you will see us increase capacity. And, you know, if the demand signals remain as strong as they are, that will continue into 2027 as well.
Roger Dassen: Yeah, Krish, as I said, our capacity is very dynamic because we cannot move from one point to the other just like that in one quarter, right? So that's why I said, you know, we had 44 units, revenue units of EUV, low NA last year. You cannot go from one quarter to the other, even from one year to the other, from 44 to 80. So we will crank it up. Every quarter, you will see us increase move rate, you will see us increase capacity. And, you know, if the demand signals remain as strong as they are, that will continue into 2027 as well.
Speaker #3: So that's why I said we had 44 EUV revenue units in A last year. You cannot go from one quarter to the other, even from one year to the other, from 44 to 80.
Speaker #3: So we will crank it up every quarter. You will see us increase move rate. You will see us increase capacity. And if the demand signals remain as strong as they are, that will continue into 2027 as well.
Speaker #3: And then I would say 70, would not be the limit that I would certainly be looking at. I think that is
Roger Dassen: And then I would say 70 would not be the limit that I would currently be looking at. I think that...
And then I would say 70 would not be the limit that I would currently be looking at. I think that...
[Analyst] (TD Cowen): I understand
Krish Sankar: I understand
Roger Dassen: ... that is higher.
Roger Dassen: ... that is higher.
Speaker #3: higher.
Speaker #2: We are now going
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Mehdi Hosseini from Susquehanna Financial Group. Please ask your question.
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Mehdi Hosseini from Susquehanna Financial Group. Please ask your question.
Speaker #2: To proceed with our next question. The questions come from the line of Media Sini from Siskahana Financial Group. Please ask your question.
Speaker #2: question. Yes, thanks for
[Analyst] (Susquehanna Financial Group): Yes, thanks for taking my question. My first one has to do with just the capacity that, Roger, you just highlighted. I want a better understanding in EUV capacity, and the topic has been around since 2021, when last time we had the shortages. I want to better understand what are the key factors. As you ramp the EUV capacity, is that gonna impact the booking trend? In other words, are your customers actually waiting to have a conviction of you adding committed capacity before they commit to booking or backlog that would be shippable in 2027 and beyond? I have a follow-up.
Mehdi Hosseini: Yes, thanks for taking my question. My first one has to do with just the capacity that, Roger, you just highlighted. I want a better understanding in EUV capacity, and the topic has been around since 2021, when last time we had the shortages. I want to better understand what are the key factors. As you ramp the EUV capacity, is that gonna impact the booking trend? In other words, are your customers actually waiting to have a conviction of you adding committed capacity before they commit to booking or backlog that would be shippable in 2027 and beyond? I have a follow-up.
Speaker #4: Taking my question. My first one has to do with just the capacity that, Roger, you just highlighted. I want a better understanding in EUV capacity, and the topic has been around since 2021, when last time we had the shortages.
Speaker #4: I want a better understanding of whether the key factors as you ramp the EUV capacity are going to impact the booking trend. In other words, are your customers actually waiting to have conviction that you’re adding commercial capacity before they commit to bookings or backlog that would be shippable in '27 and beyond?
Speaker #4: And I have a follow-up.
Roger Dassen: No, I don't think, Mehdi, that's what is going on. Customers, customers know what we're doing. We share pretty openly with customers, you know, how we're looking at our ability to increase. I think customers appreciate that we've built in far more flexibility into our model than what we had before. If anything, you know, if customers start to smell that for a certain year, you might be supply constrained; actually, the dynamic is the other way around. They wanna make sure that they get their booking in before they are too late, right?
Roger Dassen: No, I don't think, Mehdi, that's what is going on. Customers, customers know what we're doing. We share pretty openly with customers, you know, how we're looking at our ability to increase. I think customers appreciate that we've built in far more flexibility into our model than what we had before. If anything, you know, if customers start to smell that for a certain year, you might be supply constrained; actually, the dynamic is the other way around. They wanna make sure that they get their booking in before they are too late, right?
Speaker #3: No, I don't think many. That's what is going on. Customers know what we're doing. We share pretty openly with customers how we're looking at our ability to increase.
Speaker #3: I think customers appreciate that we've built in far more flexibility into our model than what we had before. If anything, if customers start to smell that for a certain year, you might be supply constrained, actually the dynamic is the other way around.
Speaker #3: They want to make sure that they get their booking in before they are too late, right? So, as a matter of fact, I would say if they believe that the capacity might become a choke point, then they will jump to put in the order.
Roger Dassen: So as a matter of fact, I would say if they believe that the capacity might become a choke point, then they will jump to put in the order. So I think it's more that than that are waiting for a definitive confirmation that the capacity is there. But we'll very openly share with them what our plans are, and again, they appreciate the flexibility that we've built in, and the significant reduction of response time that we have created as a result of creating the long lead time items.
So as a matter of fact, I would say if they believe that the capacity might become a choke point, then they will jump to put in the order. So I think it's more that than that are waiting for a definitive confirmation that the capacity is there. But we'll very openly share with them what our plans are, and again, they appreciate the flexibility that we've built in, and the significant reduction of response time that we have created as a result of creating the long lead time items.
Speaker #3: So I think it's more that than that they're waiting for definitive confirmation that the capacity is there. But we very openly share with them what our plans are.
Speaker #3: And again, they appreciate the flexibility that we've built in and the significant reduction of response time that we have created as a result of creating the long lead time
Speaker #3: items. Okay, great.
[Analyst] (Susquehanna Financial Group): Okay, great. Thanks for clarification. I wanna go back to the comments and the transcript that was posted with the earnings report. There was a comment that some of the booking will be shippable in 2027. So the question that I have is: what would it take for you to hit the high end of revenue guidance for this year? Is that the China? I'm assuming that China booking backlog has a shorter lifetime, and to that extent, is that the China that is going to impact your ability to hit the high end of your revenue guidance range?
Mehdi Hosseini: Okay, great. Thanks for clarification. I wanna go back to the comments and the transcript that was posted with the earnings report. There was a comment that some of the booking will be shippable in 2027. So the question that I have is: what would it take for you to hit the high end of revenue guidance for this year? Is that the China? I'm assuming that China booking backlog has a shorter lifetime, and to that extent, is that the China that is going to impact your ability to hit the high end of your revenue guidance range?
Speaker #7: Thanks for the clarification. I want to go back to the comments and the transcript that were posted with the earnings report. There was a comment that some of the bookings will be shippable in '27.
Speaker #7: So the question that I have is, what would it take for you to hit the high end of the revenue guide for this year? Is that the China?
Speaker #7: I'm assuming that China backlog has a shorter lifetime, and to that extent, is that the China that is going to impact your ability to hit the high end of your revenue guide range?
Roger Dassen: Eddie, I think I've said it. I think first and foremost, it's the readiness of our customers to take tools. I think that is number one. So their ability to complete fab construction, put the pedestals in, and take our tools. I think that's constraint number one. Constraint number two, our ability to execute. So I just talked about what we're doing to increase the ramp. We're comfortable with that, but of course, you know, everyone needs to sing from the same song sheet, not just us, but also the supply chain, so we gotta make sure that everyone is tuned in to the same ramp that we have on pace. So that would be the second one, so that would be more of a supply factor.
Roger Dassen: Eddie, I think I've said it. I think first and foremost, it's the readiness of our customers to take tools. I think that is number one. So their ability to complete fab construction, put the pedestals in, and take our tools. I think that's constraint number one. Constraint number two, our ability to execute. So I just talked about what we're doing to increase the ramp. We're comfortable with that, but of course, you know, everyone needs to sing from the same song sheet, not just us, but also the supply chain, so we gotta make sure that everyone is tuned in to the same ramp that we have on pace. So that would be the second one, so that would be more of a supply factor.
Speaker #3: Hey, I think I said it. I think first and foremost, it's the readiness of our customers to take tools. I think that is number one.
Speaker #3: So, their ability to complete fab construction, put the pedestals in, and take our tools—I think that's constraint number one. Constraint number two: our ability to execute.
Speaker #3: So I just talked about what we're doing to increase the ramp. We're comfortable with that. But of course, everyone needs to sing from the same song sheet, not just us, but also the supply chain.
Speaker #3: So, we got to make sure that everyone is tuned in to the same ramp that we have in place. So that would be the second one.
Speaker #3: So, that would be more of a supply factor. On the demand side, I think it's the demand for upgrades, and I gave some color on that earlier on.
Roger Dassen: On the demand side, I think it's the demand for upgrades, and I gave some color on that earlier on. And as I mentioned on China, I think, you know, in our guidance, China is 20% of revenue, so China would breathe along with the corridor that we have given.
On the demand side, I think it's the demand for upgrades, and I gave some color on that earlier on. And as I mentioned on China, I think, you know, in our guidance, China is 20% of revenue, so China would breathe along with the corridor that we have given.
Speaker #3: And as I mentioned on China, I think in our guidance, China is 20% of revenue. So China would breathe along with the corridor that we have
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The questions come from the line of Didier Scemama from Bank of America. Please ask your question.
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The questions come from the line of Didier Scemama from Bank of America. Please ask your question.
Speaker #2: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The questions come from the line of DJ Shimama from Bank of America. Please ask your question.
Speaker #2: question.
Speaker #4: Yeah, thank you. Good
[Analyst] (Bank of America): Yeah, thank you. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I'm just asking about 4F² and the DRAM. So I think, Christophe, you mentioned in your press release that you see in your interaction with your own customers that, in fact, the DUV and EUV layer count could go up with 4F². So I'm just wondering, you know, obviously there is a school of thought in the market that 4F² would lead to a cliff in EUV demand from DRAM customers whenever we see 4F² introduction, say 2028. So is that a risk that you think is significantly diminishing because, you know, obviously the view is reuse of tool capacity?
Didier Scemama: Yeah, thank you. Good afternoon, gentlemen. I'm just asking about 4F² and the DRAM. So I think, Christophe, you mentioned in your press release that you see in your interaction with your own customers that, in fact, the DUV and EUV layer count could go up with 4F². So I'm just wondering, you know, obviously there is a school of thought in the market that 4F² would lead to a cliff in EUV demand from DRAM customers whenever we see 4F² introduction, say 2028. So is that a risk that you think is significantly diminishing because, you know, obviously the view is reuse of tool capacity?
Speaker #4: afternoon, gentlemen. And just asking about Five Square and the runway. So I think Christophe, you mentioned in your press release that you see in your interaction with the customers that, in fact, the EUV and EUV layer count could go up with Five Square.
Speaker #4: So I'm just wondering, obviously, there is a school of thought in the market that Five Square would lead to a cliff in EUV demand from the customers whenever we see Five Square introduction, say 2028.
Speaker #4: So, is that a risk that you think is significantly diminishing? Because, obviously, the view is reuse of tool capacity. Or do you think that now, as EUV layer count goes up, and there is also a view that now wafer capacity in DRAM is going to have to expand dramatically over the course of the next five years because of edge AI and more complex LLMs?
[Analyst] (Bank of America): Or do you think that now as EUV layer account goes up, and, you know, there is also a view that now wafer capacity in DRAM is gonna have to expand dramatically over the course of the next five years because of AGI and, you know, more complex LLMs, that effectively this, this risk of a cliff and significant reuse of EUV tools is, is effectively, really diminishing dramatically? I've got a follow-up as well. Thank you.
Or do you think that now as EUV layer account goes up, and, you know, there is also a view that now wafer capacity in DRAM is gonna have to expand dramatically over the course of the next five years because of AGI and, you know, more complex LLMs, that effectively this, this risk of a cliff and significant reuse of EUV tools is, is effectively, really diminishing dramatically? I've got a follow-up as well. Thank you.
Speaker #4: That effectively this risk of a cliff and significant reuse of EUV tools is effectively really diminishing dramatically. I've got a follow-up as well. Thank you.
Speaker #3: Yeah, I tried to answer all the points. So I think the first thing to say is if you look at Five Square, the structure requires more advanced lethal mass.
Roger Dassen: Yeah, I'll try to answer on the point. So I think the first thing to say is, if you look at 4F², the structure require a more advanced litho mask. So that's the first thing. So you get basically to look at a more complex structure, and that structure is going to require more lithography. This is why we mentioned that both, in fact, the immersion and EUV will go up. Now, you talk about cliffs a lot. Customers don't like cliffs. Cliffs are very bad for operation.
Roger Dassen: Yeah, I'll try to answer on the point. So I think the first thing to say is, if you look at 4F², the structure require a more advanced litho mask. So that's the first thing. So you get basically to look at a more complex structure, and that structure is going to require more lithography. This is why we mentioned that both, in fact, the immersion and EUV will go up. Now, you talk about cliffs a lot. Customers don't like cliffs. Cliffs are very bad for operation.
Speaker #3: So that's the first thing. So you get basically to look at a more complex structure. And that structure is going to require more lithography.
Speaker #3: This is why we mentioned that both, in fact, immersion and EUV will go up. Now, you talk about 'cliff' a lot. Customers don't like cliff.
Speaker #3: Cliffs are very bad for operation. But customers like this optimized technology over several nodes. And therefore, when we talk about EUV insertion with our customer, of course, the transition to five square is taken into account.
Roger Dassen: What customers like is optimized technology over several nodes, and therefore, when we talk about EUV insertion with our customers, of course, the transition to Four F Square is taken into account, because no one wants to buy a lot of tools and be stuck with them. So cliffy is never good for customers when it comes to operation. And what you see happening with DRAM is that EUV basically has become a very handy tool to simplify processes, to simplify the number of steps, to simplify cycle time, to reduce cycle time, sorry, and even to bring more capacity, because if you have less mask, if you have less multi-patterning, you end up basically with more space in your fab.
What customers like is optimized technology over several nodes, and therefore, when we talk about EUV insertion with our customers, of course, the transition to Four F Square is taken into account, because no one wants to buy a lot of tools and be stuck with them. So cliffy is never good for customers when it comes to operation. And what you see happening with DRAM is that EUV basically has become a very handy tool to simplify processes, to simplify the number of steps, to simplify cycle time, to reduce cycle time, sorry, and even to bring more capacity, because if you have less mask, if you have less multi-patterning, you end up basically with more space in your fab.
Speaker #3: Because no one wants to buy a lot of tools and be stuck with them. So, cliff is never good for customers when it comes to operation.
Speaker #3: What you see happening with DRAM is, and what that EUV basically has become, is a very handy tool to simplify processes, to simplify the number of steps, to simplify cycle time—to reduce cycle time, sorry—and even to bring more capacity.
Speaker #3: Because if you have less mask, if you have less multi-patterning, you end up basically with more space in your fab. So, EUV—I would say that the more DRAM customers use it, the more they like it.
Roger Dassen: So, EUV, I would say that the more DRAM customers use it, the more they like it, because they get benefit on all those counts, and again, they want to include the cliff. So when we made the statement in our release, basically it's really out of many discussions with customers. And I think that... Well, I don't know if the risk is going down. We never thought that the risk was pretty high, but I think we're very, very confident that, again, litho intensity will grow with 4F², both on Deep UV and EUV, and as I said before, we see EUV number of layers continuing to grow, both before and after this transition.
So, EUV, I would say that the more DRAM customers use it, the more they like it, because they get benefit on all those counts, and again, they want to include the cliff. So when we made the statement in our release, basically it's really out of many discussions with customers. And I think that... Well, I don't know if the risk is going down. We never thought that the risk was pretty high, but I think we're very, very confident that, again, litho intensity will grow with 4F², both on Deep UV and EUV, and as I said before, we see EUV number of layers continuing to grow, both before and after this transition.
Speaker #3: Because they get benefit on all those counts. And again, they want to include the cliff. So when we made the statement in our release, basically, it's really out of many, many discussions with that, well, I don't know if the customers.
Speaker #3: And I think risk is going down. We never saw that the risk was pretty high, but I think we're very, very confident that, again, litho intensity will grow with Five Square.
Speaker #3: Both on DPUV and EUV. And as I said before, we see EUV number of layers continuing to grow both before and after this
Speaker #3: transition.
[Analyst] (Bank of America): Very clear, thank you. So my, my follow-up is on the gross margin side. So I think perhaps one element of, of disappointment in the guide is the gross margin, and I think you mentioned, you know, the mix of EUV Low NA. Obviously, you know, immersion probably gonna decline because of China, and then also, let's say, the upgrades business and the sort of milestone payments that might not be as strong in 2026. I'm just wondering, if you look into 2027, do you think that your mix of Low NA EUV will sort of revert back to, you know, what you had said before, which is the majority will be 3800 E? Or is there any reason why, you know, 3nm capacity expansion will continue to grow into 2027?
Didier Scemama: Very clear, thank you. So my, my follow-up is on the gross margin side. So I think perhaps one element of, of disappointment in the guide is the gross margin, and I think you mentioned, you know, the mix of EUV Low NA. Obviously, you know, immersion probably gonna decline because of China, and then also, let's say, the upgrades business and the sort of milestone payments that might not be as strong in 2026. I'm just wondering, if you look into 2027, do you think that your mix of Low NA EUV will sort of revert back to, you know, what you had said before, which is the majority will be 3800 E? Or is there any reason why, you know, 3nm capacity expansion will continue to grow into 2027?
Speaker #7: clear. Thank you. So my follow-up is on the gross margin side. So I think perhaps one element of disappointment in the guide is the gross margin.
Speaker #7: And I think you mentioned the mix of EUV loan A, obviously immersion probably going to decline because of China and then also the, let's say, the upgrade business and the sort of milestone payments that might not be as strong in '26.
Speaker #7: I'm just wondering, if you look into '27, do you think that your mix of loan A, EUV will sort of reverb back to what you had said before, which is the majority will be 3800E?
Speaker #7: Or is there any reason why three-nanometer capacity expansion will continue to grow into '27? I guess the immersion question on China is anyone's guess.
[Analyst] (Bank of America): I guess the immersion question on China is anyone's guess, but if you want to hazard into an answer, I'm very happy to hear it.
I guess the immersion question on China is anyone's guess, but if you want to hazard into an answer, I'm very happy to hear it.
Speaker #7: But if you want to hazard into an answer, I'm very happy to hear it.
Speaker #3: So DJ, on the mix for EUV, customers like our 3800 so much that they took as much as they could get in terms of 3800s rather than 3600s and 25.
Roger Dassen: So DJ, on the mix for EUV, you know, customers liked our 3800 so much that they took as much as they could get in terms of 3800s rather than 3600s in 2025. But of course, you know, we had a number of 3600s that still needed to be completed, that we had all the parts for. And those will be shipped in all likelihood in 2026. So the 2027 mix in terms of EUV should be substantially better. And also at that point in time, we're probably looking at the next generation. So the EUV mix by 2027 should be better than 2026.
Roger Dassen: So DJ, on the mix for EUV, you know, customers liked our 3800 so much that they took as much as they could get in terms of 3800s rather than 3600s in 2025. But of course, you know, we had a number of 3600s that still needed to be completed, that we had all the parts for. And those will be shipped in all likelihood in 2026. So the 2027 mix in terms of EUV should be substantially better. And also at that point in time, we're probably looking at the next generation. So the EUV mix by 2027 should be better than 2026.
Speaker #3: But of course, we had a number of 3,600s that still needed to be completed that we had all the parts for. And those will be shipped in all likelihood in ’26.
Speaker #3: So the '27 mix in terms of EUV should be substantially better. And also at that point in time, we're probably looking at a next generation.
Speaker #3: So the EUV mix by '27 should be better than '26. And you're right, that is an important element. Because if you look at how we plan toward, and how we plan towards the 56 to 60% gross margin in 2030, it's pretty clear that new generations of low-NA EUV are critical in that regard.
Roger Dassen: And you're right, that is an important element, because, if you look at how we, how we plan to work and how we plan, towards the 56% to 60% gross margin, in twenty- in 2030, it's pretty clear that new generations of low-NA EUV are critical in that regard. So the EUV mix in 2027 will be better than it is in 2026. Another mix effect that is in there, indeed, is on the DUV side, so quite a bit more dry rather than immersion. I would say in all likelihood, that is less a matter of demand, but it's supply, right?
And you're right, that is an important element, because, if you look at how we, how we plan to work and how we plan, towards the 56% to 60% gross margin, in twenty- in 2030, it's pretty clear that new generations of low-NA EUV are critical in that regard. So the EUV mix in 2027 will be better than it is in 2026. Another mix effect that is in there, indeed, is on the DUV side, so quite a bit more dry rather than immersion. I would say in all likelihood, that is less a matter of demand, but it's supply, right?
Speaker #3: So the EUV mix in '27 will be better than it is in '26. Another mix effect that is in there, indeed, is on the DPV side.
Speaker #3: So quite a bit more drive rather than immersion. I would say in all likelihood that is less a matter of demand, but it's supply, right?
Speaker #3: So, on the supply side, we are constrained in terms of immersion for 2026. So it's in that result that, with higher dry business and restrictions on the immersion side, that gives you a less favorable DPV mix that goes into the equation.
Roger Dassen: So, on the supply side, we are constrained in terms of immersion for 2026.
So, on the supply side, we are constrained in terms of immersion for 2026.
[Analyst] (Bank of America): Ah.
Didier Scemama: Ah.
Roger Dassen: So it's in that result that you know with higher dry business and restrictions on the immersion side that gives you a less favorable DUV mix that goes into the equation. And then an important swing factor, 'cause, you know, you still have a 2% bandwidth in the gross margin. An important element of the swing factor will be installed base and will be upgrade business. That gives you the moving parts, DJ.
Roger Dassen: So it's in that result that you know with higher dry business and restrictions on the immersion side that gives you a less favorable DUV mix that goes into the equation. And then an important swing factor, 'cause, you know, you still have a 2% bandwidth in the gross margin. An important element of the swing factor will be installed base and will be upgrade business. That gives you the moving parts, DJ.
Speaker #3: And then an important swing factor, because you still have a 2% bandwidth in the gross margin, an important element of the swing factor will be install base and will be upgrade business.
Speaker #3: That gives you the moving parts, DJ.
Speaker #7: Not as great. By the way, do you want to say what you think will be the red wreck on higher end
[Analyst] (Bank of America): No, that's great. By the way, did you, do you want to say what you think will be the rev rec on High NA in 2026?
Didier Scemama: No, that's great. By the way, did you, do you want to say what you think will be the rev rec on High NA in 2026?
Speaker #7: '26? Red wreck on higher
Roger Dassen: The what?
Roger Dassen: The what?
Jim Kavanagh: Rev, rev rec on High NA.
Jim Kavanagh: Rev, rev rec on High NA.
Speaker #7: What? end.
Roger Dassen: What?
Roger Dassen: What?
Speaker #3: The amount of higher-end units—okay, yeah. Probably a bit more than we had this year, but don't want to go into too much detail there.
Jim Kavanagh: The amount of High NA units this year.
Jim Kavanagh: The amount of High NA units this year.
Roger Dassen: Right.
Roger Dassen: Right.
Jim Kavanagh: Recognition.
Jim Kavanagh: Recognition.
Roger Dassen: Oh, okay.
Roger Dassen: Oh, okay.
Jim Kavanagh: Revenue recognition.
Jim Kavanagh: Revenue recognition.
Roger Dassen: Okay. Okay, yeah. Probably a bit more than we had this year, but-
Roger Dassen: Okay. Okay, yeah. Probably a bit more than we had this year, but-
Jim Kavanagh: Gotcha.
Jim Kavanagh: Gotcha.
Roger Dassen: Don't want to go into too much detail there. Mm.
Roger Dassen: Don't want to go into too much detail there. Mm.
Speaker #7: Okay. Fair enough. Thank
[Analyst] (Bank of America): Okay. Fair enough. Thank you.
Didier Scemama: Okay. Fair enough. Thank you.
Speaker #7: you.
Speaker #1: Thank you. We are now going
Operator: Thank you. We are now going to proceed with our next question. The questions come from the line of Francois-Xavier Bouvignies from UBS. Please ask your question.
Operator: Thank you. We are now going to proceed with our next question. The questions come from the line of Francois-Xavier Bouvignies from UBS. Please ask your question.
Speaker #1: to proceed with our next question. And the questions come from the line of François Bouvigny from UBS. Please ask your
Speaker #1: question. Thanks
[Analyst] (UBS): Thanks a lot. One for Christophe and one for Roger. I mean, the first one maybe is for Christophe. On the High NA, I just wanted to, you know, get in more details in here. I mean, we see the industry moving into a rush in terms of capacity, both at TSMC and Advanced Logic, I should say, and the memory overall. And I was wondering if you have a rush in this capacity, could that delay the High NA adoption? You know, do you see some risk happening of delay of High NA adoption because the industry is simply too busy to add capacity, that they don't want to add another risk in terms of transition? So I was just wondering if it's something that that's possible.
François-Xavier Bouvignies: Thanks a lot. One for Christophe and one for Roger. I mean, the first one maybe is for Christophe. On the High NA, I just wanted to, you know, get in more details in here. I mean, we see the industry moving into a rush in terms of capacity, both at TSMC and Advanced Logic, I should say, and the memory overall. And I was wondering if you have a rush in this capacity, could that delay the High NA adoption? You know, do you see some risk happening of delay of High NA adoption because the industry is simply too busy to add capacity, that they don't want to add another risk in terms of transition? So I was just wondering if it's something that that's possible.
Speaker #8: a lot, Sven, for Christoph and one for Roger. I mean, the first one maybe is for Christoph on the higher end. I just wanted to get in more details in here.
Speaker #8: I mean, we see the industry moving into a rush in terms of capacity. Both at TSMC and Advanced Logic, I should say, and the memory overall.
Speaker #8: And I was wondering if you have a rush in this capacity. Could that delay the higher end adoption? Do you see some risk happening of delay of higher end adoption because the industry simply is too busy to add capacity that they don't want to add another risk in terms of transition?
Speaker #8: So I was just wondering if it's something that's possible.
Roger Dassen: Well, you know, I think from day one, I've been talking about three phases of High NA adoption with R&D qualification for high volume manufacturing, then insertion and high volume manufacturing with, you know, limited amount of layer, and then the whole thing. And I would say that that plan always provide basically the time to have a real qualification. So, you know, the acceleration you see today on capacity, of course, is on existing nodes that are ramping with known technology, and those nodes will call for the use of the existing product we ship today. So that's Low NA, that's DUV, that's, you know, metrology inspection as we know it today.
Roger Dassen: Well, you know, I think from day one, I've been talking about three phases of High NA adoption with R&D qualification for high volume manufacturing, then insertion and high volume manufacturing with, you know, limited amount of layer, and then the whole thing. And I would say that that plan always provide basically the time to have a real qualification. So, you know, the acceleration you see today on capacity, of course, is on existing nodes that are ramping with known technology, and those nodes will call for the use of the existing product we ship today. So that's Low NA, that's DUV, that's, you know, metrology inspection as we know it today.
Speaker #3: Well, I think from day one, I've been talking about three phases of higher-end adoption: with R&D, qualification for high-volume manufacturing, then insertion in high-volume manufacturing with a limited number of layers, and then the whole thing.
Speaker #3: And I would say that plan always provides basically the time to have a real qualification. So the acceleration you see today on capacity, of course, is on existing nodes that are ramping with non-technology.
Speaker #3: And those nodes will call for the use of the existing product we ship today. So that's loan A, that's DPV, that's metrology inspection, as we know it today.
Roger Dassen: The preparation of High NA for the, the next node is such that it, it does leave the time, if customer want to use it, to insert it properly. So sometime, you know, maybe some of you could believe that one, two, three phase is a bit long, but this isn't... On the other hand, the way to secure the insertion, on the node, because once a decision is made to use it on the node, they really want to use it. They prepare the mask for it, they qualify the whole process with it. So it's very difficult to, to change your mind and say, "Hey, I'm going to, to go back to the whole stuff." So I think customer try to do those things in such a way that they are not too sensitive to either a major acceleration or slowdown of their capacity.
Speaker #3: The preparation of higher end for the next node is such that it does leave the time if customers want to use it to insert it properly.
The preparation of High NA for the, the next node is such that it, it does leave the time, if customer want to use it, to insert it properly. So sometime, you know, maybe some of you could believe that one, two, three phase is a bit long, but this isn't... On the other hand, the way to secure the insertion, on the node, because once a decision is made to use it on the node, they really want to use it. They prepare the mask for it, they qualify the whole process with it. So it's very difficult to, to change your mind and say, "Hey, I'm going to, to go back to the whole stuff." So I think customer try to do those things in such a way that they are not too sensitive to either a major acceleration or slowdown of their capacity.
Speaker #3: So sometimes maybe some of you could believe that one, two, three phases is a bit long, but this is, on the other end, the way to secure the insertion on the node.
Speaker #3: Because once the decision is made to use it on the node, they really want to use it. They prepare the mask for it, they qualify the whole process with it.
Speaker #3: So it's very difficult to change your mind and say, 'Hey, I'm going to go back to the whole stuff.' So I think customers try to do those things in such a way that they are not too sensitive to either a major acceleration or slowdown of their capacity.
Speaker #3: So it's a longer answer to say no, basically. So we don't see a risk
Roger Dassen: So it's a long answer to say no, basically. So we don't see a risk there.
So it's a long answer to say no, basically. So we don't see a risk there.
Speaker #3: there. Perfect.
[Analyst] (UBS): Perfect. Thank you. And maybe, Roger, your question, my question is for 2026. I mean, if China is 20% of revenues, if we take the midpoint, it would imply China is down, what, 20, 25% year-on-year, which is mainly in DUV. And you guided DUV flat for 2026, which means non-China DUV needs to go up by 40% for 0% year-on-year, kind of, to get the flat DUV. And I remember, you know, last year, I guess it's kind of a déjà vu, where last year you said there is a strong correlation between the non-China DUV and EUV growth. But when I look at 2025, your non-China DUV was actually not growing much compared to EUV. You had a big disconnect between the two.
François-Xavier Bouvignies: Perfect. Thank you. And maybe, Roger, your question, my question is for 2026. I mean, if China is 20% of revenues, if we take the midpoint, it would imply China is down, what, 20, 25% year-on-year, which is mainly in DUV. And you guided DUV flat for 2026, which means non-China DUV needs to go up by 40% for 0% year-on-year, kind of, to get the flat DUV. And I remember, you know, last year, I guess it's kind of a déjà vu, where last year you said there is a strong correlation between the non-China DUV and EUV growth. But when I look at 2025, your non-China DUV was actually not growing much compared to EUV. You had a big disconnect between the two.
Speaker #8: Thank you. And maybe, Roger, your question now, my question is for '26. I mean, if China is 20% of revenues, if we take the midpoint, it would imply China is down, what, 20, 25% year on year, which is mainly in DPV.
Speaker #8: And you guys did DPV flat for '26, which means non-China DPV needs to go up by 40% for zero year-on-year, kind of, to get the flat DPV.
Speaker #8: And I remember last year—I guess it's kind of a déjà vu—where last year you said there is a strong correlation between the non-China DPV and EUV growth.
Speaker #8: But when I look at '25, your non-China DPV was actually not growing much compared to EUV. You had a big disconnect. Between the two.
Speaker #8: So I was wondering if there was a catch-up somehow from '25 to '26, or just trying to understand why this year you would see this strong growth happening, and we didn't see that in—
[Analyst] (UBS): So I was wondering if there was a catch-up, you know, somehow from 25 to 26? I'm just trying to understand why this year you would see this strong growth happening, and we didn't see that in 25.
So I was wondering if there was a catch-up, you know, somehow from 25 to 26? I'm just trying to understand why this year you would see this strong growth happening, and we didn't see that in 25.
Speaker #8: '25.
Speaker #3: Yeah, François, it's a really good
Roger Dassen: Yeah, so that's a really good question, and indeed, this is what we observed. So 2024 was strong. Also, on the non-China business, 2024 was pretty strong, also in the dry business for customers across the board. 2025 disappointed a bit. If we look at 2026, we see the market come back with all our leading customers. Frankly, I think many of our customers are doing what we do, which is you put in the long lead time items, which in our case is more the EUV stuff, and you take a bit more flexibility in your shorter lead time items, which is the DUV business.
Roger Dassen: Yeah, so that's a really good question, and indeed, this is what we observed. So 2024 was strong. Also, on the non-China business, 2024 was pretty strong, also in the dry business for customers across the board. 2025 disappointed a bit. If we look at 2026, we see the market come back with all our leading customers. Frankly, I think many of our customers are doing what we do, which is you put in the long lead time items, which in our case is more the EUV stuff, and you take a bit more flexibility in your shorter lead time items, which is the DUV business.
Speaker #3: question. And indeed, this is what we observed. So '24 was strong also on the non-China business. '24 was pretty strong also in the dry business for customers across the board.
Speaker #3: '25 disappointed a bit. If we look at '26, we see the market come back with our leading customers. Frankly, I think many of our customers are doing what we do, which is you put in the long lead time items — which, in our case, is more the EUV stuff — and you take a bit more flexibility in your shorter lead time items, which is the DPV business.
Speaker #3: I think that's what they've done for a significant part of the year. We actually could see the non-China DPV business come back in the last months of the year.
Roger Dassen: I think that's what they've done for a significant part of the year. We actually could see the non-China DUV business come back in the last months of the year. And we frankly see that trajectory continue into 2026. So you're right in that we found that 2025 non-China DUV business disappoint. That is clearly the case. But we do see a you know a reversal of that trend in the last months of the year, and see that reversal continue into 2026.
I think that's what they've done for a significant part of the year. We actually could see the non-China DUV business come back in the last months of the year. And we frankly see that trajectory continue into 2026. So you're right in that we found that 2025 non-China DUV business disappoint. That is clearly the case. But we do see a you know a reversal of that trend in the last months of the year, and see that reversal continue into 2026.
Speaker #3: And we frankly see that trajectory continue into 2026. So you're right in that we found that '25 non-China DPV business disappoint that is clearly the case.
Speaker #3: But we do see a reversal of that trend in the last months of the year, and see that reversal continue into 2026.
Speaker #8: Great. Thank you, Roger, and
[Analyst] (UBS): Great. Thank you very much, Christophe.
François-Xavier Bouvignies: Great. Thank you very much, Christophe.
Speaker #8: Christoph. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Chris Caso from Wolfe Research. Please ask your question.
Operator: Thank you. We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Chris Caso from Wolfe Research. Please ask your question.
Speaker #1: We are now going to proceed with our next question. And the questions come from the line of Chris Caso from Wolf Research. Please ask your question.
Speaker #1: question. Yes, thank you.
[Analyst] (Wolfe Research): Yeah, thank you, good morning. My question is with regard to the expected timing of deliveries within the backlog. And you mentioned a few things in your earlier comments, you know, including, you know, customers recognizing that capacity may be tight, availability of customer clean room space. I'm not sure you'd wish to quantify how much of the backlog is expected to ship in 2026. But would you say that the timing of those expected deliveries is stretching out as compared to what's happened over the past few quarters?
Chris Caso: Yeah, thank you, good morning. My question is with regard to the expected timing of deliveries within the backlog. And you mentioned a few things in your earlier comments, you know, including, you know, customers recognizing that capacity may be tight, availability of customer clean room space. I'm not sure you'd wish to quantify how much of the backlog is expected to ship in 2026. But would you say that the timing of those expected deliveries is stretching out as compared to what's happened over the past few quarters?
Speaker #3: Good morning. My question is with regard to the expected timing of deliveries within the backlog. And you mentioned a few things in your earlier comments, including customers recognizing that capacity may be tight, and the availability of customer clean room space.
Speaker #3: I'm not sure you wish to quantify how much of the backlog is expected to ship in '26. But would you say that the timing of those expected deliveries is stretching out as compared to what's happened over the past few quarters?
Speaker #3: Our expectation is, Chris, that the second half will be stronger than the first half. But I would say that that's a function of what I just said, which is: A, the availability of fab space of our customers; and B, our continuous quarter-on-quarter ramp of our move rate.
Roger Dassen: Our expectation is, Chris, that the second half will be stronger than the first half, but I would say that's a function of what I just said, which is, A, the availability of fab space of our customers, and B, our continuous quarter-on-quarter ramp of our move rate. So as a result of that, we expected for the second half to be stronger than the first half of this year. That's the way we currently model our shipments, you know, in discussion with the customers. But clearly, you know, quite a bit of the order intake that we had in Q4, and clearly, you know, part of the backlog is for 2027. That is pretty clear.
Roger Dassen: Our expectation is, Chris, that the second half will be stronger than the first half, but I would say that's a function of what I just said, which is, A, the availability of fab space of our customers, and B, our continuous quarter-on-quarter ramp of our move rate. So as a result of that, we expected for the second half to be stronger than the first half of this year. That's the way we currently model our shipments, you know, in discussion with the customers. But clearly, you know, quite a bit of the order intake that we had in Q4, and clearly, you know, part of the backlog is for 2027. That is pretty clear.
Speaker #3: So as a result of that, we expect it to put a second half to be stronger than the first half of this year. That's the way we currently model our shipments in discussion with the customers.
Speaker #3: But clearly, quite a bit of the order intake that we had in Q4, and clearly part of the backlog, is for '27. That is pretty clear.
Speaker #3: And it is '27, right? So the majority of the line share of the orders that came in in Q4, some of it is '26, but the line share we use for '27.
Speaker #3: And it is '27, right? So the majority of the line share of the orders that came in in Q4, some of it is '26, but the line share we use for
Roger Dassen: And it is 2027, right? So the majority, the lion's share of the orders that came in in Q4, some of it is 2026, but the lion's share we use for 2027.
And it is 2027, right? So the majority, the lion's share of the orders that came in in Q4, some of it is 2026, but the lion's share we use for 2027.
[Analyst] (Wolfe Research): Thank you. My follow-up question is with regard to gross margins, and you spoke about that a bit, but perhaps you could clarify, you know, what are the headwinds and tailwinds with respect to gross margin for this year? You know, I presume that the China is one factor, but you know, what are the factors that cause you to be on the upper ends or lower ends of gross margins as you go through the year?
Chris Caso: Thank you. My follow-up question is with regard to gross margins, and you spoke about that a bit, but perhaps you could clarify, you know, what are the headwinds and tailwinds with respect to gross margin for this year? You know, I presume that the China is one factor, but you know, what are the factors that cause you to be on the upper ends or lower ends of gross margins as you go through the year?
Speaker #8: Thank you. My follow-up question is with regard to gross margins. And you spoke about that a bit. But perhaps you could clarify what are the headwinds and tailwinds with respect to gross margin for this year?
Speaker #8: I presume that China is one factor. But what are the factors that cause you to be on the upper end or lower end of gross margins as—
Speaker #8: you go through the year? I wouldn't
Roger Dassen: I wouldn't say it's China, per se. I would say it's immersion, right? So immersion tool is a significant contributor to the gross margin. As I mentioned before, we do expect the immersion sales this year to be below 2025, which is not the result of demand, but it's the result of supply constraints on the immersion side. So that is a bit of a drag. Then you see quite a bit of dry sales. As we said, we also expect the dry sales, which was fairly low in 2025. We already saw that reverse itself in the last months of the year, and we see that reversal continue into this year.
Roger Dassen: I wouldn't say it's China, per se. I would say it's immersion, right? So immersion tool is a significant contributor to the gross margin. As I mentioned before, we do expect the immersion sales this year to be below 2025, which is not the result of demand, but it's the result of supply constraints on the immersion side. So that is a bit of a drag. Then you see quite a bit of dry sales. As we said, we also expect the dry sales, which was fairly low in 2025. We already saw that reverse itself in the last months of the year, and we see that reversal continue into this year.
Speaker #3: Say it's China, per se. I would say it's emerging, right? So, emerging tool is—emerging is a significant contributor to the gross margin. As I mentioned before, we do expect the emerging sales this year to be below 2025, which is not the result of demand, but it's the result of supply constraints on the emerging side.
Speaker #3: So that is a bit of a drag. Then you see quite a bit of dry sales, as we said. We also expect the dry sales, which was fairly low in 2025.
Speaker #3: We already saw that reverse itself in the last months of the year. And we see that reversal continue into this year. But dry tools come with lower gross margins.
Roger Dassen: But dry tools come with lower gross margins, so that's a drag on the gross margin. On the EUV side, there is a bit of a mix effect, because we have, you know, 3600s in the year that we didn't have that much in 2025. So, and then, you know, if we have a bit more High NA, then of course, that also comes with a slightly depressing effect on the gross margin. So that's all the negatives. In terms of all the positives, I would say, you know, higher EUV numbers, right?
But dry tools come with lower gross margins, so that's a drag on the gross margin. On the EUV side, there is a bit of a mix effect, because we have, you know, 3600s in the year that we didn't have that much in 2025. So, and then, you know, if we have a bit more High NA, then of course, that also comes with a slightly depressing effect on the gross margin. So that's all the negatives. In terms of all the positives, I would say, you know, higher EUV numbers, right?
Speaker #3: So that's a drag on the gross margins. On the EUV side, there is a bit of a mix effect. Because we have 3,600 in the year that we didn't have in— that we didn't have that much in 2025.
Speaker #3: And then, if we have a bit more high in A, then, of course, that also comes with a slightly depressing effect on the gross margin.
Speaker #3: So that's all the negatives. In terms of all the positives, I would say higher EUV numbers, right? So we're clearly looking at a significant step up in the number of EUV tools this year.
Roger Dassen: So we're clearly looking at a significant step up in the number of EUV tools this year, and that is margin accretive. So that's on the positive side. And as I mentioned, the big swing factor, as I look at it today, is on install base. And to the extent that the install base will manifest itself in a positive way, high demand for upgrades, which, you know, at least theoretically, you could assume to be the case this year with all the appetite for capacity additions that our customers have, that should be helpful on the gross margin. So those are all the puts and takes, as I could see it, for the gross margin this year, Chris.
So we're clearly looking at a significant step up in the number of EUV tools this year, and that is margin accretive. So that's on the positive side. And as I mentioned, the big swing factor, as I look at it today, is on install base. And to the extent that the install base will manifest itself in a positive way, high demand for upgrades, which, you know, at least theoretically, you could assume to be the case this year with all the appetite for capacity additions that our customers have, that should be helpful on the gross margin. So those are all the puts and takes, as I could see it, for the gross margin this year, Chris.
Speaker #3: And that is margin accretive. So that's on the positive side. And as I mentioned, the big swing factor as I look at it today is on install base.
Speaker #3: And to the extent that the install base will manifest itself in a positive way, high demand for upgrades, which at least theoretically, you could assume to be the case this year with all the appetite for capacity additions that our customers have, that should be helpful on the gross margin.
Speaker #3: So those are all the puts and takes as I could see it for the gross margin this year,
Speaker #3: Chris. Helpful.
Christophe Fouquet: ... helpful. Thank you.
Chris Caso: ... helpful. Thank you.
Speaker #8: Thank you.
Speaker #3: You're welcome.
Roger Dassen: You're welcome.
Roger Dassen: You're welcome.
Speaker #1: We are now going to proceed with our next question. And the questions come from the line of Tammy Chu from Berenberg. Please ask your question.
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Tammy Qiu from Berenberg. Please ask your question.
Operator: We are now going to proceed with our next question. The question comes from the line of Tammy Qiu from Berenberg. Please ask your question.
[Analyst] (Berenberg): Hi, thank you for taking my question. So the first one is on logic roadmap. So over the next few years, we do have A16, A14, A14C, and A10. Can you confirm that for every single generation, are we still going to have EUV insertion of couple of layers, or some of the customers are really trying to minimize the incremental EUV layers, please?
Tammy Qiu: Hi, thank you for taking my question. So the first one is on logic roadmap. So over the next few years, we do have A16, A14, A14C, and A10. Can you confirm that for every single generation, are we still going to have EUV insertion of couple of layers, or some of the customers are really trying to minimize the incremental EUV layers, please?
Speaker #9: Question. So the first one is on Hi. Logic roadmap. So over the next few years—thank you for taking my— we do have A16, A14, A14P, and A10.
Speaker #9: Can you confirm that, for every single generation, we're still going to have EUV insertion of a couple of layers? Or are some of the customers really trying to minimize the incremental EUV layers?
Speaker #9: please? Well,
Roger Dassen: Well, so let me try to answer that. So I think, if you look at, you know, the midterm, so we talked about 2nm. Indeed, we're going to go to A16, which is very similar to 2nm, to be honest. This is not a big difference, I will skip that. We see then, basically, EUV layers increasing again at A14, as we discussed in the past, you know, most probably 10 to 20%. We see that being even more true for A10, where the structure change could call for even more EUV layers. So that's a bit the view we have, all the way to A10.
Roger Dassen: Well, so let me try to answer that. So I think, if you look at, you know, the midterm, so we talked about 2nm. Indeed, we're going to go to A16, which is very similar to 2nm, to be honest. This is not a big difference, I will skip that. We see then, basically, EUV layers increasing again at A14, as we discussed in the past, you know, most probably 10 to 20%. We see that being even more true for A10, where the structure change could call for even more EUV layers. So that's a bit the view we have, all the way to A10.
Speaker #3: so let me try to answer that. So I think if you look at the midterms, so we talked about 2-nanometer indeed, we're going to go to A16, which is very similar to 2-nanometer, to be honest.
Speaker #3: This is not a big difference; I will skip that. We see then, basically, EUV layers increasing again at A14, as we discussed in the past.
Speaker #3: Most probably, 10 to 20 percent. We see that being even more true for A10, where the structure change could call for even more EUV layers.
Speaker #3: So that's a bit the view we have all the way to A10. And in the discussion with our foundry customer, again, there's a lot, a lot of focus on that.
Roger Dassen: In the discussion with our foundry customer, again, there's a lot, a lot of focus on, on that, because this, this is key in enabling their future technology. So that's, that's a bit where what we see today on the, on the foundries.
In the discussion with our foundry customer, again, there's a lot, a lot of focus on, on that, because this, this is key in enabling their future technology. So that's, that's a bit where what we see today on the, on the foundries.
Speaker #3: Because this is key in enabling their future technology. So that's a bit where we—what we see today on the foundries.
Speaker #9: Okay, thank you. And I have a follow-up also on the capacity issue. So, I remember that back in 2021, you were very clear about, you will do 90 EUV tools, and that is the capacity we need.
[Analyst] (Berenberg): Okay, thank you. And I have a follow-up also on capacity issue. So I remember that back in 2021, you were very clear about you will do 90 EUV tools, and that is the capacity we need. Then, of course, you know, the unfortunate 2022 happened, so we took a pause of that. And it sounds like today, your capacity addition plan has been more cautious than you were previously. If there is any reason for that, or it just basically after 2022, it's better to take a cautious approach from a capacity perspective?
Tammy Qiu: Okay, thank you. And I have a follow-up also on capacity issue. So I remember that back in 2021, you were very clear about you will do 90 EUV tools, and that is the capacity we need. Then, of course, you know, the unfortunate 2022 happened, so we took a pause of that. And it sounds like today, your capacity addition plan has been more cautious than you were previously. If there is any reason for that, or it just basically after 2022, it's better to take a cautious approach from a capacity perspective?
Speaker #9: Then, of course, unfortunately, 2022 happened. So we took a pause off that. And it sounded like today your capacity addition plan has been more cautious than you were previously.
Speaker #9: Is there any reason for that? Or just basically, after 2022, it's better to take a cautious approach from a capacity perspective?
Speaker #3: I think I tried to explain, but I guess I didn't completely succeed in that. So what I said is what we did in the earlier years of this decade is to put in what we call the long lead time items, which means that anything that takes more than, let's say, 12 to 18 months to get done, we did, right?
Roger Dassen: I think I tried to explain, but I guess I didn't completely succeed in that. So what I said is what we did in the earlier years of this decade is to put in what we call the long lead time items, which means that you know, anything that takes more than-
Roger Dassen: I think I tried to explain, but I guess I didn't completely succeed in that. So what I said is what we did in the earlier years of this decade is to put in what we call the long lead time items, which means that you know, anything that takes more than-
[Analyst] (Berenberg): Mm-hmm
Tammy Qiu: Mm-hmm
Roger Dassen: ... let's say, 12 to 18 months to get done, we did, right? So we, we build additional factory, we put in equipment, et cetera, et cetera. So, we built clean room. So all of the things that take time, we did. So that's, that's good news, so that gives you more flexibility. But as I mentioned before, you cannot from one year to the other, move from a move rate, an annual move rate of 44 to 80 in one year time. Simply doesn't work, because you need to, to take in people, you need to hire people, you need to, train those people, and you cannot double that, in, in, in one year's time. That needs to be a gradual, a gradual approach.
Roger Dassen: ... let's say, 12 to 18 months to get done, we did, right? So we, we build additional factory, we put in equipment, et cetera, et cetera. So, we built clean room. So all of the things that take time, we did. So that's, that's good news, so that gives you more flexibility. But as I mentioned before, you cannot from one year to the other, move from a move rate, an annual move rate of 44 to 80 in one year time. Simply doesn't work, because you need to, to take in people, you need to hire people, you need to, train those people, and you cannot double that, in, in, in one year's time. That needs to be a gradual, a gradual approach.
Speaker #3: So we built an additional factory. We put in equipment, etc., etc. So we built clean wells. So all of the things that take time, we did.
Speaker #3: So, that's good news. So that gives you more flexibility. But, as I mentioned before, you cannot, from one year to the other, move from an annual move rate of 44 to 80 in one year's time—it simply doesn't work.
Speaker #3: Because you need to take in people, you need to hire people, you need to train those people, and you cannot double that in one year's time.
Speaker #3: That needs to be a gradual approach. So this is the process that we're in right now. Because we also took a decision back in 2022, 2023.
Roger Dassen: So this is the process that we're in right now, because we also took a decision back in 2022, 2023. We're not gonna put in people for an output of 90, because that would make no sense. They would have nothing to do, and it would be very, very costly. So we're gradually moving our move rate up. So does our supply chain, same story there. They're also gradually, quarter on quarter, moving up their move rate. And in that way, you know, we will very meaningfully increase our capacity over what we had in last year. So that's what we're doing.
So this is the process that we're in right now, because we also took a decision back in 2022, 2023. We're not gonna put in people for an output of 90, because that would make no sense. They would have nothing to do, and it would be very, very costly. So we're gradually moving our move rate up. So does our supply chain, same story there. They're also gradually, quarter on quarter, moving up their move rate. And in that way, you know, we will very meaningfully increase our capacity over what we had in last year. So that's what we're doing.
Speaker #3: We're not going to put in people, for—we're not going to put in people for an output of 90. Because that would make no sense.
Speaker #3: They would have nothing to do, and it would be very, very costly. So we're gradually moving our move rate up. So does our supply chain—same story there.
Speaker #3: They're also gradually, quarter on quarter, moving up their move rate. And in that way, we will very meaningfully increase our capacity over what we had in last and last year.
Speaker #3: So that's what we're doing. So we have the structural big investments to get to 90. And now we're gradually moving our move rate up in order to move or integral capacity to cater to the demand.
Roger Dassen: So we have the structural, big investments to get to 90, and now we're gradually moving our move rate up in order to move our installed capacity to cater to the demand. And we think that our increase in capacity goes nicely hand in hand with the completion of fabs by our customers, such that we will not be the limiting factor in them being able to increase their capacity.
So we have the structural, big investments to get to 90, and now we're gradually moving our move rate up in order to move our installed capacity to cater to the demand. And we think that our increase in capacity goes nicely hand in hand with the completion of fabs by our customers, such that we will not be the limiting factor in them being able to increase their capacity.
Speaker #3: And we think that our increase in capacity goes nicely hand in hand with the completion of fabs by our customers, such that we will not be the limiting factor in them being able to
Speaker #3: increase their capacity. Yeah.
Christophe Fouquet: Yeah, maybe to add to that, to second Roger on that. So I think what we said, you know, back to 2026, so we said that the major factor, in fact, on tool delivery, would be the execution of our customer, because you have to realize a lot of decisions have been done in the last few months. And this also means that they are extremely active in putting capacity in place, et cetera, et cetera. And you know, in 2026, as Roger said, we can nicely follow, basically, right now, their own ambition, which is good.
Christophe Fouquet: Yeah, maybe to add to that, to second Roger on that. So I think what we said, you know, back to 2026, so we said that the major factor, in fact, on tool delivery, would be the execution of our customer, because you have to realize a lot of decisions have been done in the last few months. And this also means that they are extremely active in putting capacity in place, et cetera, et cetera. And you know, in 2026, as Roger said, we can nicely follow, basically, right now, their own ambition, which is good.
Speaker #2: Maybe to add to that, to second Roger on that. So I think what we said, back to 2026, we said that the major factor, in fact, on tool delivery would be the execution of our customer.
Speaker #2: Because you have to realize a lot of decisions have been made in the last few months. And this also means that they are extremely active in putting capacity in place, etc., etc.
Speaker #2: And in 2026, as Roger said, we can nicely follow basically right now their own ambition, which is good. When it comes to beyond 2026, as you know, the lead time on our EUV machine is at least 12 months, which means that, as we speak, we are capable to have that discussion with our customer looking at next year, basically.
Christophe Fouquet: When it comes to beyond 2026, as you know, the lead time on our EUV machine is at least 12 months, which means that as we speak, we are capable to have that discussion with our customer, looking at next year, basically. And as we do that, we can adjust basically our planning exactly in the way Roger mentioned it. But so far, you know, if you look at the short, midterm, we are capable to nicely follow, basically, what our customer are asking for. So I think I sense a bit some concern that we may be the bottleneck with, for our customer. This, this is not the case, certainly not, this year. And again, for next year, we have plenty of time to continue to follow basically their, their demand.
When it comes to beyond 2026, as you know, the lead time on our EUV machine is at least 12 months, which means that as we speak, we are capable to have that discussion with our customer, looking at next year, basically. And as we do that, we can adjust basically our planning exactly in the way Roger mentioned it. But so far, you know, if you look at the short, midterm, we are capable to nicely follow, basically, what our customer are asking for. So I think I sense a bit some concern that we may be the bottleneck with, for our customer. This, this is not the case, certainly not, this year. And again, for next year, we have plenty of time to continue to follow basically their, their demand.
Speaker #2: And as we do that, we can adjust basically our planning exactly in the way Roger mentioned it. But so far, if we look at the short, midterm, we are capable to nicely follow basically what our customers are asking for.
Speaker #2: So I think I sense a bit of concern that we may be the bottleneck, basically, for our customer. This is not the case—certainly not this year.
Speaker #2: And again, for next year, we have plenty of time to continue to follow, basically, their demands. So I just want to make that clear.
Christophe Fouquet: So I just want to make that clear. So what Roger described is the process and the flexibility we have, thanks to the investment we have made on our NXE 90 capability for EUV, 600 for DUV, to follow basically very carefully what our customers are going to need in the next few quarters.
So I just want to make that clear. So what Roger described is the process and the flexibility we have, thanks to the investment we have made on our NXE 90 capability for EUV, 600 for DUV, to follow basically very carefully what our customers are going to need in the next few quarters.
Speaker #2: I think what Roger described is the process and the flexibility we have, thanks to the investment we have made on our, indeed, 90 capability for EUV, 600 for DPV, to follow basically very carefully.
Speaker #2: What our customers are going to need in the next few
Speaker #2: quarters. Thank you. Okay. Unfortunately, we have run out of time. But if you were unable to get through on this call and still have questions, please feel free to contact the ASML Investor Relations Department with your question.
[Analyst] (Berenberg): Thank you.
Tammy Qiu: Thank you.
Christophe Fouquet: Okay. Unfortunately, we have run out of time, but if you were unable to get through on this call and still have questions, please feel free to contact the ASML Investor Relations Department with your question. So now, on behalf of ASML, I would like to thank you for joining the call with us today. Operator, if you could formally conclude the call, I would very much appreciate it. Thank you.
Jim Kavanagh: Okay. Unfortunately, we have run out of time, but if you were unable to get through on this call and still have questions, please feel free to contact the ASML Investor Relations Department with your question. So now, on behalf of ASML, I would like to thank you for joining the call with us today. Operator, if you could formally conclude the call, I would very much appreciate it. Thank you.
Speaker #2: So now, on behalf of ASML, I would like to thank you for joining the call with us today. Operator, if you could formally conclude the call, I would very much appreciate it.
Speaker #2: Thank you.
Operator: 2025 Fourth Quarter and Full Year Financial Results Conference Call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
Operator: 2025 Fourth Quarter and Full Year Financial Results Conference Call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
