Las Vegas Sands Q4 2025 Las Vegas Sands Corp Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q4 2025 Las Vegas Sands Corp Earnings Call
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Speaker #1: moment.
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Speaker #3: Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands Fourth Quarter 2025 earnings call. At this time, all participants have been placed on listen-only mode.
Daniel J. Briggs: Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands Q4 2025 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants have been placed on listen-only mode, but we will open the floor for your questions and comments following the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours.
Operator: Good day, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to the Sands Q4 2025 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants have been placed on listen-only mode, but we will open the floor for your questions and comments following the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands. Sir, the floor is yours.
Speaker #3: But we will open the floor for your questions and comments following the presentation. It is now my pleasure to turn the floor over to Mr. Daniel Briggs, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations at Sands.
Speaker #3: Sir, the floor is yours.
Speaker #4: Thank you. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO; Patrick Dumont, our President and Chief Operating Officer; Dr. Wilfrid Wong, Executive Vice Chairman of Sands China; and Grant Chung.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO; Patrick Dumont, our President and Chief Operating Officer; Dr. Wilfred Wong, Executive Vice President of Sands China, and Grant Chum, CEO and President of Sands China and EVP of Asia Operations. Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements. We'll be making those statements under the safe harbor provision of federal securities laws. The language on forward-looking statements included in our press release also applies to our comments made on the call. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements. In addition, we'll discuss non-GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. Joining the call today are Rob Goldstein, our Chairman and CEO; Patrick Dumont, our President and Chief Operating Officer; Dr. Wilfred Wong, Executive Vice President of Sands China, and Grant Chum, CEO and President of Sands China and EVP of Asia Operations. Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements. We'll be making those statements under the safe harbor provision of federal securities laws. The language on forward-looking statements included in our press release also applies to our comments made on the call. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements. In addition, we'll discuss non-GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website. We will refer to that presentation during the call.
Speaker #4: CEO and President of Sands China, and EVP of Asia Operations. Today's conference call will contain forward-looking statements. We'll be making those statements under the Safe Harbor provision of Federal Securities Laws.
Speaker #4: The language on forward-looking statements included in our press release also applies to our comments made on the call. The company's actual results may differ materially from the results reflected in those forward-looking statements.
Speaker #4: In addition, we'll discuss non-GAAP measures. Reconciliations to the most comparable GAAP financial measure are included in our press release. We have posted an earnings presentation on our website.
Speaker #4: We will refer to that presentation during the call. Finally, for the Q&A session, we ask those with interest to please post one question and one follow-up.
Daniel J. Briggs: Finally, for the Q&A session, we ask those with interest to please pose one question and one follow-up, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.
Daniel J. Briggs: Finally, for the Q&A session, we ask those with interest to please pose one question and one follow-up, so we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.
Speaker #4: So we might allow everyone with interest the opportunity to participate. This presentation is being recorded. I'll now turn the call over to Rob.
Speaker #5: Thank you, Dan, and good afternoon. Thank you for joining us. Marina Bay Sands delivered EBITDA of $806 million—simply the greatest quarter in the history of casino hotels.
Robert Glen Goldstein: Thank you, Dan, and good afternoon. Thank you for joining us. Marina Bay Sands delivered an EBITDA of $806 million, simply the greatest quarter in the history of casino hotels. We've seen $2.9 billion of EBITDA this year. Mass gaming in Sands Cotai exceeded $951 million this quarter, which is up 118% from Q4 2019, up 27% from Q4 last year. Of course, we are delighted with the results and look forward to more this year. This is an extraordinary market. We have built the product to maximize the opportunity. The question is: how much further can we go in the next 2 years? There's never been a building, to my knowledge, that delivered these types of results.
Robert Glen Goldstein: Thank you, Dan, and good afternoon. Thank you for joining us. Marina Bay Sands delivered an EBITDA of $806 million, simply the greatest quarter in the history of casino hotels. We've seen $2.9 billion of EBITDA this year. Mass gaming in Sands Cotai exceeded $951 million this quarter, which is up 118% from Q4 2019, up 27% from Q4 last year. Of course, we are delighted with the results and look forward to more this year. This is an extraordinary market. We have built the product to maximize the opportunity. The question is: how much further can we go in the next 2 years? There's never been a building, to my knowledge, that delivered these types of results.
Speaker #5: We exceeded $2.9 billion of EBITDA this year. Mass gaming and slot win million this quarter, which is up 118% from Q4 2019 and up 27% from Q4 last year.
Speaker #5: Of course, we are delighted with the results and look forward to more this year. This is an extraordinary market. We have built the product to maximize the opportunity.
Speaker #5: The question is, how much further can we go in the next two years? There has never been a building, to my knowledge, that has delivered these types of results.
Speaker #5: But Cal delivered $608 million of EBITDA for the quarter, and we aren't disappointed with that EBITDA number. However, mass market revenue did exceed 25% this quarter, or share up 23.6 in the first quarter of 2025.
Robert Glen Goldstein: Macau delivered $608 million EBITDA for the quarter, and we aren't disappointed with that EBITDA number. However, mass market revenue did exceeded 25% this quarter, our share, up 23.6, in Q1 2025. Macau market is driven by the premium segment with this highly competitive market. There may be a day when base mass recovers, and we will excel when that day comes. But until then, we will continue to focus on our ability to make the assets work harder to achieve $700 million per quarter. The team is in the right place and be able to deliver better results in 2026. So let's hear from Patrick.
Robert Glen Goldstein: Macau delivered $608 million EBITDA for the quarter, and we aren't disappointed with that EBITDA number. However, mass market revenue did exceeded 25% this quarter, our share, up 23.6, in Q1 2025. Macau market is driven by the premium segment with this highly competitive market. There may be a day when base mass recovers, and we will excel when that day comes. But until then, we will continue to focus on our ability to make the assets work harder to achieve $700 million per quarter. The team is in the right place and be able to deliver better results in 2026. So let's hear from Patrick.
Speaker #5: The Cal market is driven by the premium segment, and this is a highly competitive market. There may be a day when base mass recovers, and we will excel when that day comes.
Speaker #5: But until then, we will continue to focus on our ability to make the assets work harder to achieve. The team is in the right place, and we will deliver $700 million per quarter.
Speaker #5: Better results in 2026. So, let's hear from Patrick.
Speaker #6: Thanks, Rob. Look, our EBITDA was $608 million. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $26 million.
Patrick Dumont: Thanks, Rob. Macau EBITDA was $608 million. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $26 million. When adjusted for a higher than expected hold of the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macau portfolio of properties would have been 28.9%, down 390 basis points compared to the fourth quarter of 2024. We are focused on delivering revenue and cash flow growth across the portfolio. Margin at The Venetian was 32.3%, while margin at The Londoner was 28.8%. We expect growth in EBITDA as revenues grow. We will use our scale and product advantages together with targeted incentives to better address every market segment. We see opportunity in every segment at every property in the portfolio.
Patrick Dumont: Thanks, Rob. Macau EBITDA was $608 million. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $26 million. When adjusted for a higher than expected hold of the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macau portfolio of properties would have been 28.9%, down 390 basis points compared to the fourth quarter of 2024. We are focused on delivering revenue and cash flow growth across the portfolio. Margin at The Venetian was 32.3%, while margin at The Londoner was 28.8%. We expect growth in EBITDA as revenues grow. We will use our scale and product advantages together with targeted incentives to better address every market segment. We see opportunity in every segment at every property in the portfolio.
Speaker #6: When adjusted for higher-than-expected hold of the rolling segment, our EBITDA margin for the Macau portfolio of properties would have been 28.9%, down 390 basis points compared to the fourth quarter of 2024.
Speaker #6: We are focused on delivering revenue and cash flow growth across the portfolio. Margin at The Venetian was 32.3%, while margin at The Londoner was 28.8%.
Speaker #6: We expect growth in EBITDA as revenues grow. We will use our scale and product advantages, together with targeted incentives, to better address every market segment.
Speaker #6: We see opportunity in every segment at every property in the portfolio. In Singapore, Marina Bay Sands EBITDA for the quarter was $806 million, at a margin of 50.3%.
Patrick Dumont: In Singapore, Marina Bay Sands EBITDA for the quarter was $806 million at a margin of 50.3%. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $45 million. The record financial results at MBS reflect the impact of high-quality investment in market-leading products, world-class service, and the growth in high-value tourism. Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders, we repurchased $500 million of LVS stock during the quarter. We also paid our recurring quarterly dividend of $0.25 per share. We believe repurchases of LVS equity through our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and its shareholders over the long term.
Patrick Dumont: In Singapore, Marina Bay Sands EBITDA for the quarter was $806 million at a margin of 50.3%. If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $45 million. The record financial results at MBS reflect the impact of high-quality investment in market-leading products, world-class service, and the growth in high-value tourism. Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders, we repurchased $500 million of LVS stock during the quarter. We also paid our recurring quarterly dividend of $0.25 per share. We believe repurchases of LVS equity through our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and its shareholders over the long term.
Speaker #6: If we had held as expected in our rolling program, our EBITDA would have been lower by $45 million. The record financial results at MBS reflect the impact of high-quality investment in market-leading products, world-class service, and the growth in high-value tourism.
Speaker #6: Turning to our program to return capital to shareholders, we repurchased $500 million of LVS stock during the quarter. We also paid our recurring quarterly dividend of 25 cents per share.
Speaker #6: We believe repurchases of LVS equities through our share repurchase program will be meaningfully accretive to the company and its shareholders over the long term.
Speaker #6: During the fourth quarter, we purchased $66 million of SEL stock, increasing the company's ownership percentage of SEL to 74.8% as of December 31, 2025.
Patrick Dumont: During Q4, we purchased $66 million of SCL stock, increasing the company's ownership percentage of SCL to 74.8% as of 31 December 2025. We continue to see value in both names. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repurchase program to increase returns to shareholders. Thanks again for joining the call today. Now let's take questions.
Patrick Dumont: During Q4, we purchased $66 million of SCL stock, increasing the company's ownership percentage of SCL to 74.8% as of 31 December 2025. We continue to see value in both names. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repurchase program to increase returns to shareholders. Thanks again for joining the call today. Now let's take questions.
Speaker #6: We continue to see value in both names. We look forward to continuing to utilize the company's share repurchase program to increase returns to shareholders.
Speaker #6: Thanks again for joining the call today. Now, let's take questions.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. If you would like to enter the queue to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad now. If listening on speaker phone today, please pick up your handset to provide optimum sound quality. Also, we ask each participant to limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Please hold while we poll for questions. The first question today is coming from Dan Politzer from JP Morgan. Dan, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. If you would like to enter the queue to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad now. If listening on speaker phone today, please pick up your handset to provide optimum sound quality. Also, we ask each participant to limit yourself to one question and one follow-up. Please hold while we poll for questions. The first question today is coming from Dan Politzer from JP Morgan. Dan, your line is live.
Speaker #3: Ladies and gentlemen, the floor is now open for questions. Thank you. If you would like to enter the queue to ask your question, please press star one on your telephone keypad now.
Speaker #3: If listening on speakerphone today, please pick up your handset to provide optimum sound quality. Also, we ask each participant to limit yourself to one question and one follow-up.
Speaker #3: Please hold while we pull for questions. And the first question today is coming from Dan Politzer from JP Morgan. Dan, your line is open.
Speaker #3: live. Hey, good afternoon,
Daniel Politzer: Hey, good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for taking my question. Rob, congrats on a storied career at Las Vegas Sands. We'll definitely miss hearing your honest assessment of what's going on in the markets across the world.
Daniel Politzer: Hey, good afternoon, everyone, and thanks for taking my question. Rob, congrats on a storied career at Las Vegas Sands. We'll definitely miss hearing your honest assessment of what's going on in the markets across the world.
Speaker #7: Everyone, and thanks for taking my question. And Rob, congrats on a storied career at Las Vegas Sands. We'll definitely miss hearing your honest assessment of what's going on in the markets across the world.
Robert Glen Goldstein: Thank you.
Robert Glen Goldstein: Thank you.
Daniel Politzer: First on Singapore, yeah, another obviously real strong quarter here. I mean, the VIP rolling chip volume acceleration was notable. You saw obviously an acceleration across the board on the gaming side. I mean, what particularly is driving that? I mean, I know this is the Q3 we're seeing it at, but maybe now you have a better pulse on what's going on and what's specifically driving that. And are there any additional programming elements or OpEx endeavors that you feel like you need to put in place to further sustain this going forward?
Speaker #7: First, on Singapore—yeah, another obviously real strong quarter here. I mean, the VIP rolling chip volume acceleration was notable. You saw, obviously, an acceleration across the board on the gaming side.
Daniel Politzer: First on Singapore, yeah, another obviously real strong quarter here. I mean, the VIP rolling chip volume acceleration was notable. You saw obviously an acceleration across the board on the gaming side. I mean, what particularly is driving that? I mean, I know this is the Q3 we're seeing it at, but maybe now you have a better pulse on what's going on and what's specifically driving that. And are there any additional programming elements or OpEx endeavors that you feel like you need to put in place to further sustain this going forward?
Speaker #7: I mean, where—what particularly is driving that? I mean, I know this is the third quarter we're seeing it, but maybe now you have a better pulse on what's going on and what's specifically driving that.
Speaker #7: And are there any additional programming elements or OPEX endeavors that you feel like you need to put in place to further sustain this going?
Speaker #7: Forward? I think you're seeing, Dan,
Robert Glen Goldstein: I think you're seeing, Dan, the property is extraordinary, the offerings are great, and we have a lot of fantastic customers from all over Asia. I don't think it's a different story. It's the same story, just more and more people coming to that property, want to experience it and coming away very happy. And the volumes across the board are extraordinary. As I referenced, the greatest built building in the history of casino hotels, maybe of any operating building. Nothing really different, just more of the same. More people showing up with, you know, lots of money to gamble and lots of appetite. We're very fortunate. It's a very strong customer base across Asia. So nothing really different or new.
Robert Glen Goldstein: I think you're seeing, Dan, the property is extraordinary, the offerings are great, and we have a lot of fantastic customers from all over Asia. I don't think it's a different story. It's the same story, just more and more people coming to that property, want to experience it and coming away very happy. And the volumes across the board are extraordinary. As I referenced, the greatest built building in the history of casino hotels, maybe of any operating building. Nothing really different, just more of the same. More people showing up with, you know, lots of money to gamble and lots of appetite. We're very fortunate. It's a very strong customer base across Asia. So nothing really different or new.
Speaker #5: The property is extraordinary. The offerings are great, and we have a lot of fantastic customers from all—same story, just more and more people coming to that property who want to experience it, and coming away very happy.
Speaker #5: And the volume is, across the board, extraordinary. As I referenced, the greatest building in the history of casino hotels—maybe of any operating building.
Speaker #5: Nothing really different, just more of the same. More people showing up with lots of money to gamble, lots of appetite, or very fortunate. It's a very strong customer base across Asia.
Speaker #5: So
Speaker #5: nothing really different. Yeah, I
Patrick Dumont: Yeah, I just want to comment on the last part of your question. There's really nothing that we have to do from an OpEx side, except to continue to improve our service models and our programs there. We're continuing to invest in Singapore. We're continuing to do some renovations. While the suites are done and the casino area is mostly done, I think we're going to continue to adjust our amenity set and continue to invest in our service there. But from our standpoint, I think where we are, are where we need to be, but we'll continue to look to improve as we can.
Patrick Dumont: Yeah, I just want to comment on the last part of your question. There's really nothing that we have to do from an OpEx side, except to continue to improve our service models and our programs there. We're continuing to invest in Singapore. We're continuing to do some renovations. While the suites are done and the casino area is mostly done, I think we're going to continue to adjust our amenity set and continue to invest in our service there. But from our standpoint, I think where we are, are where we need to be, but we'll continue to look to improve as we can.
Speaker #6: There's really nothing that we have to do—I just want to comment on the last part of your question from an OPEX side, except to continue to improve our service models and our programs there.
Speaker #6: We're continuing to invest in Singapore. Renovations: while the suites are done and the casino, we're continuing to do some, continue to adjust our amenity set and continue to invest in our service there.
Speaker #6: Are we where we need to be? We'll continue to improve, but from our standpoint, I think we'll look to improve as we can.
Daniel Politzer: Got it. And then just pivoting to Macau, as we try to unpack these numbers, and, you know, on a hold-adjusted basis, EBITDA margin is down, quarter-over-quarter. I mean, how much of this is just the OpEx environment, if there's any other one-offs in the quarter to highlight? And, I mean, you know, given that we're a few quarters in now, to you know, the promotional strategy that you undertook, I mean, where do you feel like it's not really resonating? What, you know, strategy do you have in place that you feel like you can start to gain traction there?
Daniel Politzer: Got it. And then just pivoting to Macau, as we try to unpack these numbers, and, you know, on a hold-adjusted basis, EBITDA margin is down, quarter-over-quarter. I mean, how much of this is just the OpEx environment, if there's any other one-offs in the quarter to highlight? And, I mean, you know, given that we're a few quarters in now, to you know, the promotional strategy that you undertook, I mean, where do you feel like it's not really resonating? What, you know, strategy do you have in place that you feel like you can start to gain traction there?
Speaker #3: Just pivoting to Macau, as we try to unpack these. Got it. And then numbers, and on a whole disruptive basis, EBITDA and margins down quarter over quarter.
Speaker #3: I mean, how much of this is just the OPEX environment? If there's any other one-offs in the quarter to highlight, and, I mean, given that we're a few quarters in now to the promotional strategy that you undertook, where do you feel like it's not really resonating?
Speaker #3: What strategy do you have in place that you feel like you can start to gain traction?
Speaker #3: there? Yeah,
Speaker #3: there? Yeah,
Grant Chum: Yeah, thanks, Dan, for the question. Yeah, first of all, I think the marketing strategies, leveraging the Londoner Grand ramp up since May, I think we're moving in the right direction in terms of customer growth, in terms of revenue growth, across all the segments. But obviously, Macau right now is driven by the premium segments, both in rolling and non-rolling, and that's where we are getting most of our growth. So in terms of the sequential decline in operating margin, firstly, we have higher reinvestment, but on a sequential basis, that's mostly driven by the segment mix change. So we have more rolling business as a proportion of our total gaming, and within non-rolling, it's dominated by the super high end on the premium mass. So that's the first factor. Secondly, OpEx was higher, yes.
Grant Chum: Yeah, thanks, Dan, for the question. Yeah, first of all, I think the marketing strategies, leveraging the Londoner Grand ramp up since May, I think we're moving in the right direction in terms of customer growth, in terms of revenue growth, across all the segments. But obviously, Macau right now is driven by the premium segments, both in rolling and non-rolling, and that's where we are getting most of our growth. So in terms of the sequential decline in operating margin, firstly, we have higher reinvestment, but on a sequential basis, that's mostly driven by the segment mix change. So we have more rolling business as a proportion of our total gaming, and within non-rolling, it's dominated by the super high end on the premium mass. So that's the first factor. Secondly, OpEx was higher, yes.
Speaker #7: All, I think the marketing strategies leveraging the Londoner, Grand, Grandpop—since—thanks, Dan, for the question. Yeah, first of May, I think we're moving in the right direction in terms of customer growth, in terms of revenue growth.
Speaker #7: Across all the segments—but obviously, Macau right now is driven by the premium segments, both in rolling and non-rolling. And that's where we are getting most of our growth.
Speaker #7: Decline in operating. So, in terms of the sequential margin, firstly, we have higher reinvestment, but on a sequential basis, that's mostly driven by the segment mix change.
Speaker #7: So, we have more rolling business as a proportion of our total gaming, and within non-rolling, it's dominated by the super high end on the premium mass.
Speaker #7: So that's the first factor. Secondly, OPEX was higher. Yes, we invested more on event costs, and we had higher payroll, primarily as a result of us increasing our operating table hour capacity.
Grant Chum: We invested more on event costs, and we had higher payroll as we looked primarily as a result of us increasing our operating table hour capacity. And lastly, against prior quarter, but also against prior year, the non-rolling hold percentage was lower by about 140 basis points. So that obviously impacts our results as well.
Grant Chum: We invested more on event costs, and we had higher payroll as we looked primarily as a result of us increasing our operating table hour capacity. And lastly, against prior quarter, but also against prior year, the non-rolling hold percentage was lower by about 140 basis points. So that obviously impacts our results as well.
Speaker #7: And lastly, against the prior quarter, but also against the prior year, the non-rolling whole percentage was lower, about 140 basis points. So that obviously impacts our results as well.
Speaker #3: Got it. Thanks
Daniel Politzer: Got it. Thanks so much.
Daniel Politzer: Got it. Thanks so much.
Speaker #3: so much. Thank
Speaker #1: You. The next question will be from Lizzie Dove from Goldman Sachs. Lizzie, your line is live.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question will be from Lizzie Dove, from Goldman Sachs. Lizzie, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will be from Lizzie Dove, from Goldman Sachs. Lizzie, your line is live.
Speaker #8: Hi, thanks for taking the question, and I'll echo my congrats to Rob. You'll definitely be missed. Sticking with Macau—I mean, you've talked in the past about the path long-term to getting back to that.
[Analyst] (Goldman Sachs): Hey, thanks for taking the question, and I'll echo my congrats to Rob. You know, you'll definitely be missed. Sticking with Macau, I mean, you've talked in the past about, you know, the path long term to getting back to that, you know, somewhere in that $2.7 to 2.8 billion kind of range for EBITDA. I'm curious, you know, kind of tracking on an annualized basis, a little below that right now, how you think about the pacing to get back there and kind of timeline and what needs to happen?
Lizzie Dove: Hey, thanks for taking the question, and I'll echo my congrats to Rob. You know, you'll definitely be missed. Sticking with Macau, I mean, you've talked in the past about, you know, the path long term to getting back to that, you know, somewhere in that $2.7 to 2.8 billion kind of range for EBITDA. I'm curious, you know, kind of tracking on an annualized basis, a little below that right now, how you think about the pacing to get back there and kind of timeline and what needs to happen?
Speaker #8: Somewhere in that $2.7, $2.8 billion kind of range. But EBITDA, curious, kind of tracking on an annualized basis a little below that right now—how you think about the pacing to get back there and kind of timeline, and what needs to
Speaker #8: Happen? So I think, first off,
Patrick Dumont: So I think first off, I think we've made a lot of changes over the last couple of quarters, both in our approach to the customer, how we think about service levels. We've invested in personnel. We've had additional table hours, which you heard Grant just mention. I think we're really focused on both growing revenue and EBITDA. And so I think we've made some great progress this quarter. If you look at some of our top-line numbers, we've, we've definitely grown, and we've had success in both rolling and non-rolling and slots as well, when you look year-over-year comps. I think for us, we're sort of working through some of the changes that we've made, and I think the trajectory is heading in the right direction.
Patrick Dumont: So I think first off, I think we've made a lot of changes over the last couple of quarters, both in our approach to the customer, how we think about service levels. We've invested in personnel. We've had additional table hours, which you heard Grant just mention. I think we're really focused on both growing revenue and EBITDA. And so I think we've made some great progress this quarter. If you look at some of our top-line numbers, we've, we've definitely grown, and we've had success in both rolling and non-rolling and slots as well, when you look year-over-year comps. I think for us, we're sort of working through some of the changes that we've made, and I think the trajectory is heading in the right direction.
Speaker #5: I think we've made a lot of changes over the last couple of quarters, both in our approach to the customer and how we think about service levels.
Speaker #5: We've invested in personnel. We've had additional table hours, which you heard Grant just mention. And I think we're really focused on both growing revenue and EBITDA.
Speaker #5: Great progress this quarter. If you look at some—and so I think we’ve made some of our top-line numbers, we’ve definitely grown. I think we’ve had success in both rolling and non-rolling at slots as well when you look at year-over-year comps.
Speaker #5: And I think for us, we're sort of working through some of the changes. That trajectory is heading in the right direction. And I think we've made a lot of important changes, and I think we're in a position to do better over time.
Patrick Dumont: I think we've made a lot of important changes, and I think we're in a position to do better over time. While this quarter may not have produced the results that we want on an EBITDA basis, we see growth, we see better market positioning, we see revenue share growth, and we're heading in the right direction.
Patrick Dumont: I think we've made a lot of important changes, and I think we're in a position to do better over time. While this quarter may not have produced the results that we want on an EBITDA basis, we see growth, we see better market positioning, we see revenue share growth, and we're heading in the right direction.
Speaker #5: And while this quarter may not have produced the results that we want on an EBITDA basis, we see growth, we see better market positioning, we see revenue share growth, and we're heading in the right direction.
Speaker #5: direction. Got it.
Robin Farley: Got it. Makes sense. And then, you know, you've had so much success in Singapore with, you know, side bets and kind of just making gambling more diversified over there. I know you've talked about kind of introducing more of that in Macau. Could you maybe share an update of how far you are in terms of rolling that out in Macau? Anything that's kind of different structurally or with the customer base that maybe makes it more or less appealing, and how we should kind of think about structural hold there long term?
Lizzie Dove: Got it. Makes sense. And then, you know, you've had so much success in Singapore with, you know, side bets and kind of just making gambling more diversified over there. I know you've talked about kind of introducing more of that in Macau. Could you maybe share an update of how far you are in terms of rolling that out in Macau? Anything that's kind of different structurally or with the customer base that maybe makes it more or less appealing, and how we should kind of think about structural hold there long term?
Speaker #8: Makes sense. And then, yeah, you've had so much success in Singapore with side bets and kind of just making gambling more diversified over there.
Speaker #8: I know you’ve talked about kind of introducing more of that in Macau. Could you maybe share an update of how far you are in terms of rolling that out in Macau?
Speaker #8: Anything that's kind of different structurally or with the customer base that maybe makes it more or less appealing, and how we should kind of think about structural hold there.
Speaker #8: Long-term? Yeah, thank you for the question.
Grant Chum: Yeah, thank you for the question. I think in Macau, we have been continuously rolling out additional wager options on the baccarat layouts, and we've been having progressively more success in attracting volume against those side wagers. The level of participation in the side wagers is not as high as Singapore, but it is on an increasing trend. And we'll continue, we're continuing to innovate in terms of offering more fun and interesting side wager options in the traditional game of baccarat, and also other games as well, in terms of additional wager options.
Grant Chum: Yeah, thank you for the question. I think in Macau, we have been continuously rolling out additional wager options on the baccarat layouts, and we've been having progressively more success in attracting volume against those side wagers. The level of participation in the side wagers is not as high as Singapore, but it is on an increasing trend. And we'll continue, we're continuing to innovate in terms of offering more fun and interesting side wager options in the traditional game of baccarat, and also other games as well, in terms of additional wager options.
Speaker #7: I think in Macau, we have been continuously rolling out additional wager options on the background layouts. And we've been having progressively more success in attracting volume against those side wagers.
Speaker #7: The level of participation in the side wagers is not as high as trend. And we'll continue to innovate in terms of offering more fun and interesting side wager options in the traditional game of baccarat and also other games as well in terms of additional wager options.
Speaker #7: So that will continue. But we are seeing rising interest in these side wagers. But it's just not at as high a level as what you see in Marina Bay.
Grant Chum: So, that will continue, but we are seeing rising interest in these side wagers, but it's just not at as high a level as what you see in the Marina Bay Sands.
Grant Chum: So, that will continue, but we are seeing rising interest in these side wagers, but it's just not at as high a level as what you see in the Marina Bay Sands.
Speaker #8: Thank Sands. you.
Robin Farley: Thank you.
Lizzie Dove: Thank you.
Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question will be from Trey Bowers from Wells Fargo. Trey, your line is live.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question will be from Trey Bowers from Wells Fargo. Trey, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will be from Trey Bowers from Wells Fargo. Trey, your line is live.
Trey Bowers: Hey, guys. Thanks for the question. Great to catch up. Could you guys just talk to what you're seeing in the promotional environment in Macau? Has that changed dramatically in the near term, and what's the expectation as we make our way through 2026? Thanks.
Trey Bowers: Hey, guys. Thanks for the question. Great to catch up. Could you guys just talk to what you're seeing in the promotional environment in Macau? Has that changed dramatically in the near term, and what's the expectation as we make our way through 2026? Thanks.
Speaker #9: Great to catch up. Could you guys just talk to what you're seeing in the promotional environment in Macau? Has that changed dramatically in the near term?
Speaker #9: And what's the expectation as we make our way through '26? Thanks.
Speaker #5: So, I think the market definitely has become more promotional over time. You heard Grant mention that it's much more premium-focused, and that goes hand in hand with that segment.
Patrick Dumont: So I think the market definitely has become more promotional over time. You heard Grant mention that it's much more premium focused, and that goes hand in hand with that segment. That being said, we're being very competitive, and I think we're seeing the results related to our positioning as we look to be more promotional and as we add the right service levels to ensure that we can take care of these customers in a way that allows them to keep coming back. Grant, I don't know if there's anything you want to add?
Patrick Dumont: So I think the market definitely has become more promotional over time. You heard Grant mention that it's much more premium focused, and that goes hand in hand with that segment. That being said, we're being very competitive, and I think we're seeing the results related to our positioning as we look to be more promotional and as we add the right service levels to ensure that we can take care of these customers in a way that allows them to keep coming back. Grant, I don't know if there's anything you want to add?
Speaker #5: That being said, we're being very competitive. And I think we're seeing the results related to our positioning as we look to be more promotional, and as we add the right service levels to ensure that we can take care of these customers in a way that allows them to keep coming back.
Speaker #5: Granted, if there's anything you want to—
Speaker #5: Add? Yeah, I think the promotional—
Grant Chum: Yeah, I think the promotional environment remains intense, and especially in the premium segments, which is really driving the growth in the market. That said, I think we are at a more stable level now, in the current, you know, in the current quarter, and we can see that, progressively, in Q4. But of course, things can change anytime as competitive dynamics change. But at this point in time, I think we are stabilizing at the current levels, at least for our portfolio. And actually, we're hoping to find some headroom to optimize on the reinvestment front, into 2026.
Grant Chum: Yeah, I think the promotional environment remains intense, and especially in the premium segments, which is really driving the growth in the market. That said, I think we are at a more stable level now, in the current, you know, in the current quarter, and we can see that, progressively, in Q4. But of course, things can change anytime as competitive dynamics change. But at this point in time, I think we are stabilizing at the current levels, at least for our portfolio. And actually, we're hoping to find some headroom to optimize on the reinvestment front, into 2026.
Speaker #7: The environment remains intense, and especially in the premium segments, which are really driving the growth in the market. That said, I think we are at a more stable level now in the current quarter.
Speaker #7: And we can see that progressively in the fourth quarter. But of course, things can change anytime as competitive dynamics change. But at this point in time, I think we are stabilizing at the current levels, at least for our portfolio.
Speaker #7: And actually, we're hoping to find some headroom to optimize on the reinvestment front into 2026.
Speaker #9: Great. Then just back to MBS. Given the exit rate of where you were in Q4, if we apply seasonal levels of kind of sequential growth to the market, we come up with some pretty big numbers on the top and bottom line.
Trey Bowers: Great. Now, then, just back to MBS, if given the exit rate of where you were in Q4, if we apply seasonal levels of kind of sequential growth to the market, we come up with some pretty big numbers on the top and bottom line in the market. Is there anything to call out that you would just put out there as a put or a take against that as we kind of build our models for the next 12 months? Thanks.
Trey Bowers: Great. Now, then, just back to MBS, if given the exit rate of where you were in Q4, if we apply seasonal levels of kind of sequential growth to the market, we come up with some pretty big numbers on the top and bottom line in the market. Is there anything to call out that you would just put out there as a put or a take against that as we kind of build our models for the next 12 months? Thanks.
Speaker #9: And the market, is there anything to call out that you would just put out there as a put or a take against that as we kind of build our models for the next 12 months?
Speaker #9: Thanks.
Speaker #7: I don't think it's seasonal. I think this is just the building that defies the seasonality of most markets. I think it's more about the right customers showing up, events, etc.
Robert Glen Goldstein: I don't think it's seasonal. I, I think this is just a building that defies the seasonality of most markets. I think it's more about the right customers showing up, events, et cetera. I don't think the people we're dealing with are that driven by the seasonality of the market. I think it's just a very, very... It's the best product in the market, obviously, and one of the best products in the world. People want to be there. If you get the right, you know, people show up, it, I think it's December, July, it doesn't matter as much as it used to in places like Macau or Las Vegas. It's less seasonally driven, I think, and more driven by the building itself and a strong market.
Robert Glen Goldstein: I don't think it's seasonal. I, I think this is just a building that defies the seasonality of most markets. I think it's more about the right customers showing up, events, et cetera. I don't think the people we're dealing with are that driven by the seasonality of the market. I think it's just a very, very... It's the best product in the market, obviously, and one of the best products in the world. People want to be there. If you get the right, you know, people show up, it, I think it's December, July, it doesn't matter as much as it used to in places like Macau or Las Vegas. It's less seasonally driven, I think, and more driven by the building itself and a strong market.
Speaker #7: I don't think the people we're dealing with are that driven by the seasonality of the market. I think it's just a very, very—it's the best product in the market, obviously, and one of the best products in the world.
Speaker #7: People want to be there. If you get the right people to show up, I think it's December, July—it doesn't matter as much as it used to in places like Macau or Las Vegas.
Speaker #7: It's less seasonally driven, I think, and more driven by the building itself and a strong market. So I don't think seasonality figures in. I wouldn't model it based on that.
Robert Glen Goldstein: So I don't think seasonality figures in. I wouldn't model it based on that.
Robert Glen Goldstein: So I don't think seasonality figures in. I wouldn't model it based on that.
Speaker #7: that. Thank you.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you.
Operator: Thank you.
Speaker #9: Thanks, guys. Thank
Trey Bowers: Thanks, guys.
Trey Bowers: Thanks, guys.
Speaker #1: You. And the next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question is coming from Robin Farley from UBS. Robin, your line is live.
Robin Farley: Great. Thank you. Rob, I just want to add my congratulations and best wishes. I don't even want to say how long I've known you, but you will be missed.
Robin Farley: Great. Thank you. Rob, I just want to add my congratulations and best wishes. I don't even want to say how long I've known you, but you will be missed.
Speaker #10: Great, thank you. Rob, I just want to add my congratulations and best wishes. I don't even want to say how long I've known you, but you will be missed.
Robert Glen Goldstein: Don't say it.
Robert Glen Goldstein: Don't say it.
Speaker #7: Don't say it.
Speaker #10: That'll be between us. So, I guess one question is: are there any early signs of kind of Chinese New Year levels for demand in Macau? Anything that you're seeing at this—
Robin Farley: That'll be between us. So, I guess one question is, any early signs of kind of Chinese New Year levels for, you know, demand in Macau? Anything you're seeing at this point?
Robin Farley: That'll be between us. So, I guess one question is, any early signs of kind of Chinese New Year levels for, you know, demand in Macau? Anything you're seeing at this point?
Speaker #10: point? I do want
Patrick Dumont: I do want to point out that we're going to stay consistent. We're not really going to talk about our current quarter. But I will tell you that if you look at the growth in the Macau market overall, it's been very encouraging. So if you look at liquidity in the market, you look at the type of players that are coming in, the value of those patrons, it is premium focused, but it's very encouraging, and I think it's good for the market overall and good for the trajectory of our business and the market.
Patrick Dumont: I do want to point out that we're going to stay consistent. We're not really going to talk about our current quarter. But I will tell you that if you look at the growth in the Macau market overall, it's been very encouraging. So if you look at liquidity in the market, you look at the type of players that are coming in, the value of those patrons, it is premium focused, but it's very encouraging, and I think it's good for the market overall and good for the trajectory of our business and the market.
Speaker #5: To point out, we're going to stay consistent whenever we're going to talk about the current quarter. But I will tell you that if you look at the growth in the Macau market overall, it's been very encouraging.
Speaker #5: So if you look at liquidity in the market, you look at the type of players that are coming in, the value of those patrons—it is premium-focused, but it's very encouraging.
Speaker #5: And I think it's good for the market overall, and good for the trajectory of our business and the market.
Speaker #10: Okay, great, thank you. And then maybe just a follow-up on Singapore. Rob, I hear your comments about it defying seasonality and it kind of seems like every quarter has done better than one would have expected.
Robin Farley: Okay, great. Thank you. And then, maybe just a follow-up on Singapore. Rob, you know, I hear your comments about, you know, it's defying seasonality and kind of seems like every quarter has done better than one would have expected. But maybe so that expectations don't get too-- I mean, is there anything you would say that is like a gating issue or sort of a natural point at which maybe it wouldn't even be reasonable to think that the building could do more, or like, where do you see,
Robin Farley: Okay, great. Thank you. And then, maybe just a follow-up on Singapore. Rob, you know, I hear your comments about, you know, it's defying seasonality and kind of seems like every quarter has done better than one would have expected. But maybe so that expectations don't get too-- I mean, is there anything you would say that is like a gating issue or sort of a natural point at which maybe it wouldn't even be reasonable to think that the building could do more, or like, where do you see,
Speaker #10: But maybe so that expectations don't get too—I mean, is there anything you would say that is like a gating issue, or sort of a natural point at which maybe it wouldn't even—or couldn't do more?
Speaker #10: Where do you see?
Robert Glen Goldstein: We've proven to be-
Speaker #7: Let's be true to
Robert Glen Goldstein: We've proven to be-
Speaker #7: Be true to me. Very bad at—
Robin Farley: Maybe maxing out?
Robin Farley: Maybe maxing out?
Robert Glen Goldstein: We've proven to be very bad at forecasting this. I think last year I said $2.5 billion was our goal, and people, you know, kind of thought that was very ambitious. It proved to be very unambitious. So I think we have a hard time gauging it, because what you now have is this plethora of facts in our favor. You have a really great place to visit in Singapore, a wonderful government supporting us. We have a building that a different level was, we opened it many years ago, service levels, et cetera, the suite product. It's just the best thing in that, in that region, I think, and people just keep coming to it, and we are pleasantly surprised at the amount of customers and the diversity of the geographic locations they come from.
Robert Glen Goldstein: We've proven to be very bad at forecasting this. I think last year I said $2.5 billion was our goal, and people, you know, kind of thought that was very ambitious. It proved to be very unambitious. So I think we have a hard time gauging it, because what you now have is this plethora of facts in our favor. You have a really great place to visit in Singapore, a wonderful government supporting us. We have a building that a different level was, we opened it many years ago, service levels, et cetera, the suite product. It's just the best thing in that, in that region, I think, and people just keep coming to it, and we are pleasantly surprised at the amount of customers and the diversity of the geographic locations they come from.
Speaker #10: Forecasting this, I think last year I said $2.5 billion was our goal. And people kind of thought that was very ambitious; it proved to be very unambitious.
Speaker #10: So I think we have a hard time gauging it because what you now have is this plethora of facts in our favor. You have a really great place to visit in Singapore, a wonderful government supporting us.
Speaker #10: We have a building that's at a different level than it was when we opened it many years ago. Service levels, etc., sweet product. It's just—the best thing in that region, I think, and people just keep coming to it.
Speaker #10: And we are pleasantly surprised at the amount of customers and the diversity of the geographic locations they come from. It's got diversity. It's got new customers show up all the time.
Robert Glen Goldstein: It's got diversity, it's got new customer show up all the time, and anytime we think, well, we, we lost these 4 customers for a reason, 12 more show up. And I think that's the strength of, of Macau - of Singapore, and I don't think we should pretend to have any great handicapping skills. Can it go to 3.2, 3.3, 3.4? I just don't know. I mean, we've had 3 successive quarters of, you know, keep getting better and better. It feels like it's sustainable, it feels great, but I think it'd be foolish for us to forecast the future. And, can it go to 3.1 or 3.2? Does it go back to 2.7, 2.8?
Robert Glen Goldstein: It's got diversity, it's got new customer show up all the time, and anytime we think, well, we, we lost these 4 customers for a reason, 12 more show up. And I think that's the strength of, of Macau - of Singapore, and I don't think we should pretend to have any great handicapping skills. Can it go to 3.2, 3.3, 3.4? I just don't know. I mean, we've had 3 successive quarters of, you know, keep getting better and better. It feels like it's sustainable, it feels great, but I think it'd be foolish for us to forecast the future. And, can it go to 3.1 or 3.2? Does it go back to 2.7, 2.8?
Speaker #10: And anytime we think, 'Well, we lost these four customers, for whatever reason,' twelve more show up. And I think that's the strength of Singapore.
Speaker #10: And I don't think we should pretend to have any great handicapping skills. Can it go to 3, 2, 3, 3, 3, 4? I just don't know.
Speaker #10: I mean, we've had three successive quarters of keep getting better and better. It feels like it's sustainable. It feels great. But I think it'd be foolish for us to forecast the future, and can it go to 3.1 or 3.2?
Speaker #10: As you go back to 2, 7, 2, 8, I don't know. But I think we've now passed the point of disbelief and realized this is a real building that has real potential to keep growing if the economy stays strong and we continue to deliver a great quality product.
Robert Glen Goldstein: I don't know, but I think we've now passed the point of disbelief, and realize this is a real building that has real potential to keep growing if the economy stays strong and we continue to deliver a great quality product. I have a lot of belief in its future. I don't think it's gonna fall apart at all. How much stronger does it get? I don't want to forecast. I can't. I just can't know. I don't know how to figure out, will more people keep showing up from all over Asia wanting to gamble at Marina Bay Sands? The answer has been thus far this year, absolutely yes.
Robert Glen Goldstein: I don't know, but I think we've now passed the point of disbelief, and realize this is a real building that has real potential to keep growing if the economy stays strong and we continue to deliver a great quality product. I have a lot of belief in its future. I don't think it's gonna fall apart at all. How much stronger does it get? I don't want to forecast. I can't. I just can't know. I don't know how to figure out, will more people keep showing up from all over Asia wanting to gamble at Marina Bay Sands? The answer has been thus far this year, absolutely yes.
Speaker #10: I have a lot of belief in its future. I don't think it's going to fall apart at all. How much stronger does it get?
Speaker #10: I don't want to forecast. I can't—I just can't know. I don't know how to figure it out. Well, more people keep showing up from all over Asia wanting to gamble at Marina Bay Sands.
Speaker #10: The answer has been, thus far this year, absolutely yes. Okay. Great. Thank you very much. Thanks.
George Choi: Okay, great. Thank you very much. Thanks.
Robin Farley: Okay, great. Thank you very much. Thanks.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question will be from Brandt Montour, from Barclays. Brandt, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will be from Brandt Montour, from Barclays. Brandt, your line is live.
Speaker #1: Question will be from Brent Montour. Thank you. The next from Barclays.
Speaker #1: live. Hey, everyone.
Brandt Montour: Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. The first one is on Macau. The rolling chip volume number is obviously very strong. You know, VIP isn't something that, that you historically focused on, or at least it wasn't a huge part of your mix. But given mix did weigh on the quarter, EBITDA, margins, and flow through, you know, the question would be: has there been any shift in strategy in terms of your relative focus on the VIP part of the business? And is that something we should consider more thoughtfully going forward?
Brandt Montour: Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking my question. The first one is on Macau. The rolling chip volume number is obviously very strong. You know, VIP isn't something that, that you historically focused on, or at least it wasn't a huge part of your mix. But given mix did weigh on the quarter, EBITDA, margins, and flow through, you know, the question would be: has there been any shift in strategy in terms of your relative focus on the VIP part of the business? And is that something we should consider more thoughtfully going forward?
Speaker #7: Thanks for
Speaker #7: Taking my question. The first one is, Brent, your line is on Macau. The rolling ship volume numbers are obviously very strong. VIP isn't something that you historically focused on, or at least it wasn't a huge part of your mix.
Speaker #7: But given mix did weigh on the quarter, EBITDA and margins and flow-through, the question would be, has there been any shift in strategy in terms of your relative focus in the VIP part of the business?
Speaker #7: And is that something we should consider more thoughtfully going forward?
Grant Chum: Brandt, thanks for the question. I think, first of all, we, we've said we are committed strategically to grow in every single segment in Macau that's available to us. And secondly, the growth of the market is currently primarily driven by the premium segments, and that applies both to the rolling segment and the non-rolling. So this quarter, yes, you can see that we've had a pretty significant, terrific increase in our rolling volumes, up 60% against prior year, and we're outgrowing a fast-growing market. And I think that reflects a few strategies that we put in place. Number one, we've adjusted some of our commercial programs in that segment.
Grant Chum: Brandt, thanks for the question. I think, first of all, we, we've said we are committed strategically to grow in every single segment in Macau that's available to us. And secondly, the growth of the market is currently primarily driven by the premium segments, and that applies both to the rolling segment and the non-rolling. So this quarter, yes, you can see that we've had a pretty significant, terrific increase in our rolling volumes, up 60% against prior year, and we're outgrowing a fast-growing market. And I think that reflects a few strategies that we put in place. Number one, we've adjusted some of our commercial programs in that segment.
Speaker #5: First of all, we've said we are Brent—that's another question. I think we're committed strategically to grow in every single segment in Macau that's available to us.
Speaker #5: And secondly, the growth of the market is currently primarily driven by the premium segments. And that applies both to the rolling segment and the non-rolling.
Speaker #5: So this quarter, yes, you can see that we've had a pretty significant, terrific increase in our rolling volumes of 60% against prior year. And we're outgrowing a fast-growing market.
Speaker #5: And I think that reflects a few strategies that we put in place. Number one, we've adjusted some of our commercial programs in that segment.
Speaker #5: Number two, we've been very successful in attracting the foreign play out of the rest of the Asian markets in the rolling segment, and that's given us a good boost in the volumes.
Grant Chum: Number two, we've been very successful in attracting the foreign play out of the rest of the Asian markets in the rolling segment, and that's given us a good boost in the volumes. And number three, partly reflecting the strong market in that super high-end segment, we've also been successful in that super VIP rolling segment this quarter as well. So all of these factors contributed to the very strong rolling segment growth. And yes, it's much lower margin than the other segments, but it's still a profitable segment on an absolute gross dollars basis. And of course, our primary focus right now is to grow EBITDA.
Grant Chum: Number two, we've been very successful in attracting the foreign play out of the rest of the Asian markets in the rolling segment, and that's given us a good boost in the volumes. And number three, partly reflecting the strong market in that super high-end segment, we've also been successful in that super VIP rolling segment this quarter as well. So all of these factors contributed to the very strong rolling segment growth. And yes, it's much lower margin than the other segments, but it's still a profitable segment on an absolute gross dollars basis. And of course, our primary focus right now is to grow EBITDA.
Speaker #5: And number three, partly reflecting the strong market in that super high-end segment, we've also been successful in that super VIP rolling segment this quarter as well.
Speaker #5: So, all of these factors contributed to the very strong rolling segment growth. And yes, it's much lower margin than the other segments, but it's still a profitable segment on an absolute gross dollars basis.
Speaker #5: And, of course, our primary focus right now is to grow EBITDA. And, of course, if we take advantage of where the market is growing, the rolling segment is definitely a segment that we will be concentrating on to take advantage of the market growth.
Grant Chum: And of course, if we take advantage of where the market is growing, the rolling segment is definitely a segment that we'll be concentrating on, to take advantage of the market growth.
Grant Chum: And of course, if we take advantage of where the market is growing, the rolling segment is definitely a segment that we'll be concentrating on, to take advantage of the market growth.
Brandt Montour: Okay, great. Thanks for that. My second question would be on Macau and Singapore. You know, there are some concerns out there that World Cup could have some level of impact, folks staying home to watch the games and not traveling as much during that tournament. You know, when you guys look back at your historical performance in prior World Cups, do you see anything that would suggest traffic or the higher end not coming during that tournament for either Macau or Singapore?
Brandt Montour: Okay, great. Thanks for that. My second question would be on Macau and Singapore. You know, there are some concerns out there that World Cup could have some level of impact, folks staying home to watch the games and not traveling as much during that tournament. You know, when you guys look back at your historical performance in prior World Cups, do you see anything that would suggest traffic or the higher end not coming during that tournament for either Macau or Singapore?
Speaker #7: Great, thanks for that. A second question would be on Macau and Singapore. There are some concerns out there that the World Cup could have some level of impact.
Speaker #7: Folks staying home to watch the games and not traveling as much during that tournament. When you guys look back at your historical performance in prior World Cups, do you see anything that would suggest traffic or the higher end not coming during that tournament for either Macau or Singapore?
Speaker #2: I don't believe in that at all. You watch the telephone, they can—I don't think it matters at all. That's been overblown in the past and overrated.
Robert Glen Goldstein: I don't believe it matters at all. They can watch it on their telephone, they can. I don't think it matters at all. I really, that's been overblown in the past and overrated. There was a time years ago, everyone was convinced World Cup changed the world for 30 minutes. I just don't think in the size of our businesses and the scale, it matters all that much. You guys feel differently, but I think it's. I wouldn't, I'd say it's not, it's not critical either way.
Robert Glen Goldstein: I don't believe it matters at all. They can watch it on their telephone, they can. I don't think it matters at all. I really, that's been overblown in the past and overrated. There was a time years ago, everyone was convinced World Cup changed the world for 30 minutes. I just don't think in the size of our businesses and the scale, it matters all that much. You guys feel differently, but I think it's. I wouldn't, I'd say it's not, it's not critical either way.
Speaker #2: There was a time years ago when everyone was convinced the World Cup changed the world for 30 minutes. I just don't think, in the size of our businesses and the scale, it matters all that much.
Speaker #2: You guys feel differently, but I think it's—I wouldn't—it's not critical either way.
Speaker #7: Perfect. Thanks, everyone.
Brandt Montour: Perfect. Thanks, everyone.
Brandt Montour: Perfect. Thanks, everyone.
Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question will be from George Choi from Citigroup. George, your line is live.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question will be from George Choi, from Citigroup. George, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will be from George Choi, from Citigroup. George, your line is live.
George Choi: Thank you very much, and congratulations, Rob, for your great career. First, firstly, on Marina Bay Sands, if my math is right, it looks like MBS generated enough mass EGR to trigger the higher mass gaming tax rate. Can you confirm if my math is right? And is that the reason why we see a slight sequential decline in EBITDA margin, given the we supported TGR?
Speaker #4: Thank you very much. And congratulations, Rob, for your great career. Firstly, on Marina Bay Sands—it may not destroy; it looks like MBS generated enough mass TDR to trigger the higher mass gaming tax rate.
George Choi: Thank you very much, and congratulations, Rob, for your great career. First, firstly, on Marina Bay Sands, if my math is right, it looks like MBS generated enough mass EGR to trigger the higher mass gaming tax rate. Can you confirm if my math is right? And is that the reason why we see a slight sequential decline in EBITDA margin, given the we supported TGR?
Speaker #4: Can you confirm it may not destroy? And is that the reason why we see a slight sequential decline in EBITDA margin, given the reported TDR?
Speaker #2: George, you're very good. I have to hand it to you. We hit the higher tax rate in July. And in the fourth quarter, there's about $44 million of
Robert Glen Goldstein: George, you're very good. I have to hand it to you. We hit the higher tax rate in July, and in Q4, there's about $44 million of impact.
Robert Glen Goldstein: George, you're very good. I have to hand it to you. We hit the higher tax rate in July, and in Q4, there's about $44 million of impact.
Speaker #2: impact.
George Choi: Okay, that's good and encouraging. And secondly, given the CapEx schedule that you guys have for the next few years on Marina Bay Sands, are you guys interested in any other investment opportunities, perhaps in Japan?
George Choi: Okay, that's good and encouraging. And secondly, given the CapEx schedule that you guys have for the next few years on Marina Bay Sands, are you guys interested in any other investment opportunities, perhaps in Japan?
Speaker #4: That's good, and encouraging. And secondly, given the CapEx schedule that you guys have for the next few years on Marina Bay Sands, are you guys interested in any other investment opportunities?
Speaker #4: Perhaps in Japan?
Speaker #2: Sorry. Are you asking about Marina Bay Sands or Japan?
Patrick Dumont: ... Sorry, are you asking about Marina Bay Sands or Japan?
Patrick Dumont: ... Sorry, are you asking about Marina Bay Sands or Japan?
Speaker #4: Japan. I'm just thinking, obviously, you guys have—I just kind of spent a lot of money on Marina Bay Sands. With that in mind, would you be interested in any other opportunities around the—
George Choi: I'm just thinking, obviously, you guys have just kinda spent a lot of money on Marina Bay Sands. With that in mind, would you be interested in any other opportunities around the region?
George Choi: I'm just thinking, obviously, you guys have just kinda spent a lot of money on Marina Bay Sands. With that in mind, would you be interested in any other opportunities around the region?
Speaker #4: region? Yeah.
Speaker #2: I think we're constantly looking at new development opportunities and markets where we think we can do what we do well. And so, if Japan were ever to present an investment opportunity that worked for us, we'd consider it.
Patrick Dumont: Yeah, I think we're constantly looking at new development opportunities in markets where we think we can do what we do well. And so if Japan were ever to present an investment opportunity that worked for us, we'd consider it. But as of right now, we're really focused on investing on our existing properties, building IR2. We're very excited about that opportunity. That's gonna be a step function of growth, we hope. And so you can see the impact that we've had on our investment programs in Marina Bay Sands and the change we have there. And we feel like we're on our way in Macau. So we're very focused on the assets that we have, and if something comes up, we're definitely interested.
Patrick Dumont: Yeah, I think we're constantly looking at new development opportunities in markets where we think we can do what we do well. And so if Japan were ever to present an investment opportunity that worked for us, we'd consider it. But as of right now, we're really focused on investing on our existing properties, building IR2. We're very excited about that opportunity. That's gonna be a step function of growth, we hope. And so you can see the impact that we've had on our investment programs in Marina Bay Sands and the change we have there. And we feel like we're on our way in Macau. So we're very focused on the assets that we have, and if something comes up, we're definitely interested.
Speaker #2: But as of right now, we're really focused on investing in our existing properties, building IR2. We're very excited about that opportunity; that's going to be a step-function growth, we hope.
Speaker #2: And so you can see the impact that we've had in our investment programs in Marina Bay Sands and the change we have there. And we feel like we're on our way in Macau.
Speaker #2: So we're very focused on the assets that we have, and if something comes up, we're definitely
Speaker #2: interested. All right.
George Choi: All right, very good, Carlo. Thank you very much.
George Choi: All right, very good, Carlo. Thank you very much.
Speaker #4: Very good, Carlos. Thank you very much.
Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question will be from Sean Kelly from Bank of America. Sean, your line is open.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question will be from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. Shaun, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will be from Shaun Kelley from Bank of America. Shaun, your line is live.
Speaker #1: live. Hi, good afternoon,
Shaun Kelley: Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Rob, it's been a privilege to work with you for nearly 20 years, which is hard to believe, and congratulations just on everything you've done for the industry. Thank you. You're. You'll be missed.
Shaun Kelley: Hi, good afternoon, everyone. Rob, it's been a privilege to work with you for nearly 20 years, which is hard to believe, and congratulations just on everything you've done for the industry. Thank you. You're. You'll be missed.
Speaker #8: Everyone, and Rob, it's been a privilege to work with you for nearly 20 years, which is hard to believe. And congratulations on everything you've done for the industry.
Speaker #8: Thank you. You'll be
Speaker #8: missed. Thank
Patrick Dumont: Thank you.
Patrick Dumont: Thank you.
Shaun Kelley: Maybe just kind of pivoting, or, you know, kind of one directly for Grant, specifically on Macau. Grant, just kind of wondering, as some of the initiatives you've worked on, I think we think about some specific things going back 6 to 9 months ago, like adjusting cash comp mix and maybe, you know, some more direct cash player rebates in the market, you know, which, which peers were already doing. Are, are all those things kind of where you want them to be right now? And, and have they been stable for a little while? Or are you still tweaking those things at the edges and, and finding what the right customer balance is for the, the mix that you're seeing in the market today?
Speaker #8: Maybe just kind of pivoting to you, or kind of one directly for Grant specifically on Macau. Grant, just kind of wondering, as some of the initiatives you’ve worked on—I think we think about some specific things going back six to nine months ago, like adjusting cash comp mix and maybe some more direct cash player rebates in the market, which peers were already doing.
Shaun Kelley: Maybe just kind of pivoting, or, you know, kind of one directly for Grant, specifically on Macau. Grant, just kind of wondering, as some of the initiatives you've worked on, I think we think about some specific things going back 6 to 9 months ago, like adjusting cash comp mix and maybe, you know, some more direct cash player rebates in the market, you know, which, which peers were already doing. Are, are all those things kind of where you want them to be right now? And, and have they been stable for a little while? Or are you still tweaking those things at the edges and, and finding what the right customer balance is for the, the mix that you're seeing in the market today?
Speaker #8: Are all those things kind of where you want them to be right now? And have they been stable for a little while? Or are you still tweaking those things at the edges and finding what the right customer balance is for the mix that you're seeing in the market today?
Speaker #2: Yeah, thanks, Sean, for the question. I think we've been heading in the right direction for some time, and I think we are happy with where we are.
Grant Chum: Yeah. Thanks, Shaun, for the question. I think we've been heading in the right direction for some time, and I think we are happy with where we are. You're right; there's been a number of initiatives that we've set out to implement since six months ago. I think the sales and marketing programs that were put in place, the product launch that we had in Londoner Grand, and also some of the adjustments that we made in the rolling segment, those are all feeding through to a higher revenue capture and higher market share. The reinvestment environment, as I described earlier, is still intense, and also, it's subject to month-by-month change.
Grant Chum: Yeah. Thanks, Shaun, for the question. I think we've been heading in the right direction for some time, and I think we are happy with where we are. You're right; there's been a number of initiatives that we've set out to implement since six months ago. I think the sales and marketing programs that were put in place, the product launch that we had in Londoner Grand, and also some of the adjustments that we made in the rolling segment, those are all feeding through to a higher revenue capture and higher market share. The reinvestment environment, as I described earlier, is still intense, and also, it's subject to month-by-month change.
Speaker #2: You're right. There have been a number of initiatives that we've set out to implement since six months ago. I think the sales and marketing programs that we put in place—the product launch that we had in London and Grand—and also some of the adjustments that we made in the rolling segment—those are all feeding through to a higher revenue capture and a higher market share.
Speaker #2: The reinvestment environment, as I described earlier, is still intense. And also, it's subject to month-by-month change. But at this moment, seeing what we saw in Q4, I think we're reaching a level where, yes, I think there is some stability in terms of the way we see our promotional intensity.
Grant Chum: But at this moment, seeing what we saw in Q4, I think we're reaching a level where, yes, I think there is some stability in terms of, the way we see our promotional intensity. And we actually hope to be able to optimize some of that across, the different segments, into 2026. So 2026, I think, is gonna be a year where, we sustain our revenue growth, against the market, and then hopefully convert more of that, into EBITDA.
Grant Chum: But at this moment, seeing what we saw in Q4, I think we're reaching a level where, yes, I think there is some stability in terms of, the way we see our promotional intensity. And we actually hope to be able to optimize some of that across, the different segments, into 2026. So 2026, I think, is gonna be a year where, we sustain our revenue growth, against the market, and then hopefully convert more of that, into EBITDA.
Speaker #2: And we actually hope to be able to optimize some of that across the different segments into 2026. So, 2026, I think, is going to be a year where we sustain our revenue growth against the market.
Speaker #2: And then hopefully convert more of that into EBITDA.
Speaker #8: Great, thank you. And maybe just as my follow-up, kind of on the operating expense side of the equation, could you just talk a little bit about both when traditionally you see some of those annual escalators or market-wide increases, particularly on the labor cost front?
Shaun Kelley: Great. Thank you. And maybe just as my follow-up, kind of on the operating expense side of the equation, could you just talk a little bit about both kind of when traditionally you see some of those annual escalators or market-wide increases you'd see, particularly on the labor cost front? You know, are those primarily in Q4, or do they kind of come in more in Q1? I'm not sure of the timing. And then specifically for the Q4, was there any direct impact or tangible impact from the NBA activities in the market? We know that was probably a big success for Macau broadly, but just wondering if, whether it's marketing or operating expenses attached to that could have had an impact on margins. Thanks.
Shaun Kelley: Great. Thank you. And maybe just as my follow-up, kind of on the operating expense side of the equation, could you just talk a little bit about both kind of when traditionally you see some of those annual escalators or market-wide increases you'd see, particularly on the labor cost front? You know, are those primarily in Q4, or do they kind of come in more in Q1? I'm not sure of the timing. And then specifically for the Q4, was there any direct impact or tangible impact from the NBA activities in the market? We know that was probably a big success for Macau broadly, but just wondering if, whether it's marketing or operating expenses attached to that could have had an impact on margins. Thanks.
Speaker #8: Are those primarily in Q4, or do they kind of come in more in Q1? I'm not sure of the timing. And then specifically for the fourth quarter, did you—was there any direct impact or tangible impact from the NDA activities in the market?
Speaker #8: We know that was probably a big success for Macau broadly, but just wondering whether it was marketing or operating expenses attached to that which could have had an impact on margins?
Speaker #8: Thanks.
Speaker #2: Yeah, Sean, I referenced that we have high event costs for the fourth quarter, and NBA was the biggest event that we conducted both across the quarter and, actually, ever in the history of the company.
Grant Chum: Yeah, Shaun, I referenced that we have higher event costs for Q4, and NBA was the biggest event that we conducted both across the quarter and actually ever in the history of the company. And it was, as you say, you know, tremendously successful. I think the brand projection, I think the stakeholder engagement, the way we're able to bring in new business partners through the NBA China Games Week, and of course, the entertainment we provided to our customers and community stakeholders. I think all of those things, we're, you know, absolutely delighted by. And of course, it has a cost impact.
Grant Chum: Yeah, Shaun, I referenced that we have higher event costs for Q4, and NBA was the biggest event that we conducted both across the quarter and actually ever in the history of the company. And it was, as you say, you know, tremendously successful. I think the brand projection, I think the stakeholder engagement, the way we're able to bring in new business partners through the NBA China Games Week, and of course, the entertainment we provided to our customers and community stakeholders. I think all of those things, we're, you know, absolutely delighted by. And of course, it has a cost impact.
Speaker #2: And it was, as you say, tremendously successful. I think the brand projection—I think the stakeholder engagement, the way we were able to bring in new business partners through the NBA China Games week—and, of course, the entertainment we provided to our customers and community stakeholders.
Speaker #2: I think all of those things we were absolutely delighted by. And of course, it has a cost impact. But we are very happy that we are continuing with this event in a multi-year partnership with the NBA.
Grant Chum: But we are very happy that we are continuing with this event in a multi-year partnership with the NBA, and we look forward to doing the event even better in 2026. In terms of the OpEx question, your first point, I think, refers to just general wage inflation, if I'm right in understanding your question. Generally, those wage adjustments occur in March for us, and will occur again in 2026, in March, with some wage inflation that we put in place for our frontline staff.
Grant Chum: But we are very happy that we are continuing with this event in a multi-year partnership with the NBA, and we look forward to doing the event even better in 2026. In terms of the OpEx question, your first point, I think, refers to just general wage inflation, if I'm right in understanding your question. Generally, those wage adjustments occur in March for us, and will occur again in 2026, in March, with some wage inflation that we put in place for our frontline staff.
Speaker #2: And we look forward to doing the event even better in 2026. In terms of the OPEX question, your first point, I think, refers to just general wage inflation.
Speaker #2: If I'm right in understanding your question, generally, those wage adjustments occur in March for us, and will occur again in March 2026, with some wage inflation that we put in place for our frontline staff.
Speaker #8: Thank you so
Shaun Kelley: Thank you so much.
Shaun Kelley: Thank you so much.
Speaker #8: much.
Speaker #1: Thank
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question will be from Stephen Grambling, from Morgan Stanley. Stephen, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will be from Stephen Grambling, from Morgan Stanley. Stephen, your line is live.
Speaker #1: You. The next question will be from Steven Grambling from Morgan Stanley. Steven, your line is
Speaker #1: live.
Patrick Dumont: Hi, thank you. And Rob, thanks for all the insights and stories. Given the reinvestment that you all are just mentioning through 2026 in Macau, how does this influence any strategy around renovations or reinvestment into other properties?
Stephen Grambling: Hi, thank you. And Rob, thanks for all the insights and stories. Given the reinvestment that you all are just mentioning through 2026 in Macau, how does this influence any strategy around renovations or reinvestment into other properties?
Speaker #4: Hi, thank you. And Rob, thanks for the stories. Given the reinvestment that you all are just mentioning through 2026 in Macau, how does this influence any strategy around renovations or reinvestment into other properties?
Speaker #2: So I think we're very focused on upgrading our property portfolio, particularly at the high end. We've had some very strong success in the Londoner Grand, opened earlier in the year.
Grant Chum: So I think we're very focused on upgrading our property portfolio, particularly at the high end. We've had some very strong success in The Londoner. The Londoner Grand opened earlier in the year.
Patrick Dumont: So I think we're very focused on upgrading our property portfolio, particularly at the high end. We've had some very strong success in The Londoner. The Londoner Grand opened earlier in the year.
Speaker #2: We're already seeing very strong adoption and strong productivity out of the higher-end And suites that we've created there, and of course, we have the Londoner suites.
Patrick Dumont: ... and we're already seeing very strong adoption and strong productivity out of the higher end suites that we've created there. And of course, we have the Londoner Suites, and we have the Londoner Core, which is one of our core luxury products. And so as we look around our asset base, we think we have the opportunity to add more amenities, to add better room product and better service over time. So this, this is part of our ongoing investment cycle in Macau, and something that you'll see us do over the coming quarters.
Patrick Dumont: ... and we're already seeing very strong adoption and strong productivity out of the higher end suites that we've created there. And of course, we have the Londoner Suites, and we have the Londoner Core, which is one of our core luxury products. And so as we look around our asset base, we think we have the opportunity to add more amenities, to add better room product and better service over time. So this, this is part of our ongoing investment cycle in Macau, and something that you'll see us do over the coming quarters.
Speaker #2: We have the Londoner Court, which is one of our core luxury products. And so, as we look around our asset base, we think we have the opportunity to add more amenities, to add better room products, and better service over time.
Speaker #2: is part of our ongoing investment cycle in Macau, and something that you'll see us do over the coming quarters.
Speaker #4: And then maybe a quick follow-up on capital allocation. You mentioned buying back and buying the stock in Hong Kong as well as the US.
Grant Chum: Then maybe a quick follow-up on capital allocation. You mentioned liking buyback and buying the stock in Hong Kong as well as the US. Does this eventually shift back to dividends as we get through this reinvestment cycle? Or what is this more of a permanent kind of shift towards buyback relative to dividend? In, I would say, both entities.
Stephen Grambling: Then maybe a quick follow-up on capital allocation. You mentioned liking buyback and buying the stock in Hong Kong as well as the US. Does this eventually shift back to dividends as we get through this reinvestment cycle? Or what is this more of a permanent kind of shift towards buyback relative to dividend? In, I would say, both entities.
Speaker #4: Does this eventually shift back to dividend as we get through this reinvestment cycle? Or is this more of a permanent kind of shift towards buyback relative to dividend?
Speaker #4: In, I would say, both
Speaker #4: Entities. I think if you look at
Patrick Dumont: I think if you look at the SCL level, just given the market dynamics, and I think preferences at the board level for SCL, hopefully, over time, you'll see the board there approve dividend increases. I think that's been the goal. As cash flows continue to grow, the dividend there would increase over time, and we think that's very beneficial to shareholders, including Las Vegas Sands. I think at the Las Vegas Sands level, you've seen us be very consistent in the way that we repurchase shares we've done over the last couple of years. I think we'd like to have that continue. We do think the dividend is fundamental to our return on capital story.
Patrick Dumont: I think if you look at the SCL level, just given the market dynamics, and I think preferences at the board level for SCL, hopefully, over time, you'll see the board there approve dividend increases. I think that's been the goal. As cash flows continue to grow, the dividend there would increase over time, and we think that's very beneficial to shareholders, including Las Vegas Sands. I think at the Las Vegas Sands level, you've seen us be very consistent in the way that we repurchase shares we've done over the last couple of years. I think we'd like to have that continue. We do think the dividend is fundamental to our return on capital story.
Speaker #2: At the SCL level, just given the market dynamics, and I think preferences at the board level for SCL, hopefully over time, you'll see the board there approve dividend increases.
Speaker #2: And I think that's been the goal. As cash flows continue to grow, the dividend there would increase over time. And we think that's very beneficial to shareholders, including Las Vegas Sands.
Speaker #2: I think at the Las Vegas Sands level, you see us be very consistent in the way that we repurchase shares. We've done it over the last couple of years.
Speaker #2: I think we'd like to have that continue. We do think the dividend is fundamental to our return on capital story. We do look at payout ratios and consider them and look at the flexibility that our cash flows provide to us, given that we do like the idea of investing in new growth opportunities.
Patrick Dumont: We do look at payout ratios and consider them and look at the flexibility that our cash flows provide to us, given that we do like the idea of investing in new growth opportunities. And we think that the flexibility, as well as the accretion from share repurchases, is kind of a balance that we like, and so you should see us heading forward in this general direction. And we've been pretty aggressive in the way that we buy back shares previously, and, you know, we're going to be positioned to do well with our future cash flows to do the same. So we're excited about it.
Patrick Dumont: We do look at payout ratios and consider them and look at the flexibility that our cash flows provide to us, given that we do like the idea of investing in new growth opportunities. And we think that the flexibility, as well as the accretion from share repurchases, is kind of a balance that we like, and so you should see us heading forward in this general direction. And we've been pretty aggressive in the way that we buy back shares previously, and, you know, we're going to be positioned to do well with our future cash flows to do the same. So we're excited about it.
Speaker #2: And we think that the flexibility, as well as the accretion from share repurchases, is kind of a balance that we like. And so, you should see us heading forward in this general direction.
Speaker #2: And we've been pretty aggressive in the way that we buy back shares previously. And we're going to be positioned to do well with our future cash flows to do the same.
Speaker #2: So we're excited about
Speaker #2: it. Makes sense.
Grant Chum: Makes sense. Thank you.
Stephen Grambling: Makes sense. Thank you.
Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question will be from David.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question will be from David Katz from Jefferies. David, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will be from David Katz from Jefferies. David, your line is live.
Speaker #1: Katz from Jefferies. David, your line is you.
Speaker #1: live. Afternoon,
David Katz: Afternoon, everybody. Rob, thanks for everything and all the best. I wanted to just focus on Singapore for a minute. You know, there's been a considerable amount of CapEx, you know, put in there in a variety of different places. I wanted to just go a little deeper and figure out and understand, are all of the, you know, capital investments that, you know, we've been talked about, I know the rooms, gaming floor, restaurants, amenities, you know, maybe lobby. Are those all completed and activated at this point? You know, or and just thinking about how the property ramps from here, you know, continues to strengthen.
David Katz: Afternoon, everybody. Rob, thanks for everything and all the best. I wanted to just focus on Singapore for a minute. You know, there's been a considerable amount of CapEx, you know, put in there in a variety of different places. I wanted to just go a little deeper and figure out and understand, are all of the, you know, capital investments that, you know, we've been talked about, I know the rooms, gaming floor, restaurants, amenities, you know, maybe lobby. Are those all completed and activated at this point? You know, or and just thinking about how the property ramps from here, you know, continues to strengthen.
Speaker #4: best. I wanted everybody. Rob, thanks for everything and all the to just focus on Singapore for a minute. There has been a considerable amount of CapEx put in there in a variety of different places.
Speaker #4: I wanted to just go a little deeper and figure out and understand, are all of the capital investments that we've been talked about? I know the rooms you gave me for restaurants and amenities, maybe lobby.
Speaker #4: all completed and Are those point? And just thinking about how the activated at this property ramps from here and continues to strengthen.
Patrick Dumont: So, they're not all done. So we still have work to do in other parts of the property. Gaming floor, yes. Rooms, yes. Some public spaces, some mall, lobby, and sky park still have work to be done. So it's not, it's not fully completed. And so our goal is to continue to improve the experiences that we offer. The vast majority are done, and so you see the results, and you see how our patrons enjoy the changes that we've made. But over time, we're going to look to improve the property and continue to invest in it, to continue to have it being the best in the world. That's our goal.
Patrick Dumont: So, they're not all done. So we still have work to do in other parts of the property. Gaming floor, yes. Rooms, yes. Some public spaces, some mall, lobby, and sky park still have work to be done. So it's not, it's not fully completed. And so our goal is to continue to improve the experiences that we offer. The vast majority are done, and so you see the results, and you see how our patrons enjoy the changes that we've made. But over time, we're going to look to improve the property and continue to invest in it, to continue to have it being the best in the world. That's our goal.
Speaker #2: So they're not all done. So we're still have work to do in other parts of the property. Gaming floor, yes. Rooms, yes. Some public spaces, some mall, lobby, and SkyPark still have work to be done.
Speaker #2: completed. And so our goal is So it's not fully to continue to improve the experiences that we offer. done. And so you see the The vast majority are results and you see how our patrons enjoy the changes that we've made.
Speaker #2: But over time, we're going to look to improve the property and continue to invest in it, to continue to have it being the best in the world.
Speaker #2: That's our
Speaker #2: goal. Understood.
David Katz: Understood. If I may, as my follow-up, specifically with respect to, you know, the lobby, should we be contemplating, you know, any disruption, you know, as we go through, you know, say, the next couple of years, whenever you get to that?
David Katz: Understood. If I may, as my follow-up, specifically with respect to, you know, the lobby, should we be contemplating, you know, any disruption, you know, as we go through, you know, say, the next couple of years, whenever you get to that?
Speaker #4: And if I may, as my follow-up, specifically with respect to the lobby, should we be contemplating any disruption? As we go through, say, the next couple of years, whenever you get to that?
Patrick Dumont: Uh, no.
Patrick Dumont: Uh, no.
Speaker #2: No.
Speaker #4: Okay. Thank you very much.
David Katz: Okay. Thank you very much.
David Katz: Okay. Thank you very much.
Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question will be from Joel Steff from SIG. Joel, your line is open.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question will be from Joe Stauff from SIG. Joe, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will be from Joe Stauff from SIG. Joe, your line is live.
Speaker #1: live. Thank you.
Joe Stauff: Thank you. Grant, I just wanted to follow up, you know, on some of your comments about, you know, that you've in Macau, you think you've reached a level of stability regarding investment and the right promo mix. Is that- could you... Just curious as to why you think that. Is that just a function of, you know, you're seeing some of the right KPIs, you know, inflecting because of that? Is it because, you know, you don't necessarily see a competitive response relative to your higher investment? I was wondering if you could broaden out that answer a little bit more.
Joe Stauff: Thank you. Grant, I just wanted to follow up, you know, on some of your comments about, you know, that you've in Macau, you think you've reached a level of stability regarding investment and the right promo mix. Is that- could you... Just curious as to why you think that. Is that just a function of, you know, you're seeing some of the right KPIs, you know, inflecting because of that? Is it because, you know, you don't necessarily see a competitive response relative to your higher investment? I was wondering if you could broaden out that answer a little bit more.
Speaker #5: Grant, I just wanted to follow up on some of your comments about Macau. You think you've reached a level of stability regarding investment and the right promo mix.
Speaker #5: that just curious, as Is to why you think that is? Is that just a function of you're seeing some of the right KPIs inflecting because of that?
Speaker #5: Is it because you don’t necessarily see a competitive response relative to your higher investment? I was wondering if you could broaden out that answer a little bit more.
Grant Chum: So, yeah, thanks for the question. No, we can only observe from what we see in the recent months, and I think my comment simply attests to the fact that during the fourth quarter, as we progress, we see some stabilization in the degree of promotional incentives that we're having to escalate to. I think part of it is we caught up with the market since May, and that was a progressive process. And I think in the fourth quarter, we start seeing, I think on a stable basis, a higher level of market share and higher level of patronage across all the segments, in particular, in the segments where the market is growing the fastest, which is in the premium segments.
Grant Chum: So, yeah, thanks for the question. No, we can only observe from what we see in the recent months, and I think my comment simply attests to the fact that during the fourth quarter, as we progress, we see some stabilization in the degree of promotional incentives that we're having to escalate to. I think part of it is we caught up with the market since May, and that was a progressive process. And I think in the fourth quarter, we start seeing, I think on a stable basis, a higher level of market share and higher level of patronage across all the segments, in particular, in the segments where the market is growing the fastest, which is in the premium segments.
Speaker #2: question. No, we can only observe from what we see in the recent So yeah, thanks for the months and I think my comment simply attests to the fact that during the fourth quarter, as we progress, we see some stabilization in the degree of promotional incentives that we're having to escalate to.
Speaker #2: I think part of it is we caught up with the market since May, and that was a progressive process. And I think in the fourth quarter, we start seeing, I think on a stable basis, a higher level of market share and a higher level of patronage across all the segments, in particular in the segments where the market is growing the fastest, which is in the premium segments.
Grant Chum: And then we also see that dynamics apply to the rolling segment as well. So I think the evidence from the Q4 is, I think, offers good comfort. However, the market changes day to day, minute by minute, so we will have to observe how competitive dynamics evolve in 2026. And one of the key drivers of how dynamics may change is obviously the level of market revenue growth, which, you know, is always tough to forecast. So I hope that gives you more color, explanation for my previous comments.
Grant Chum: And then we also see that dynamics apply to the rolling segment as well. So I think the evidence from the Q4 is, I think, offers good comfort. However, the market changes day to day, minute by minute, so we will have to observe how competitive dynamics evolve in 2026. And one of the key drivers of how dynamics may change is obviously the level of market revenue growth, which, you know, is always tough to forecast. So I hope that gives you more color, explanation for my previous comments.
Speaker #2: And then we also see that dynamic apply to the rolling segment as well. So I think is I the evidence from the fourth quarter think offers good comfort.
Speaker #2: However, the market changes day to day, minute by minute. So we will have to observe how competitive dynamics evolve in 2026. And one of the key drivers of how dynamics may change is obviously the level of market revenue growth, which is always tough to forecast.
Speaker #2: So I hope that gives you more color explanation
Speaker #2: for my previous comments. Thanks
John DeCree: ... Thanks very much, and congratulations, Rob.
Joe Stauff: ... Thanks very much, and congratulations, Rob.
Speaker #5: very much. And
Speaker #5: congratulations, Rob. Thank
Grant Chum: Thank you.
Grant Chum: Thank you.
Speaker #2: you.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question will be from Steve Wieczynski from Stifel. Steve, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will be from Steve Wieczynski from Stifel. Steve, your line is live.
Speaker #1: from Steve Wojcicki from CIFO. Steve, your line is Thank you. The next question will be live.
Speaker #4: Yeah, hey guys, good afternoon. And congratulations, Rob. I'll add that in real quick. So Patrick, probably for you, if we think about was, I think, about 390 basis points or the drop in the Macau margins, which somewhere in that range, wondering how we should think about margins for the rest of the year, maybe how you guys are thinking about margins for the rest of the year.
Steven Wieczynski: Yeah, hey, guys. Good afternoon. And congratulations, Rob. I'll add that in real quick. So, Patrick, probably for you. If we think about the drop in the Macau margins, which was, I think, about 390 basis points or somewhere in that range, wondering how we should think about margins for the rest of the year, maybe how you guys are thinking about margins for the rest of the year.
Steven Wieczynski: Yeah, hey, guys. Good afternoon. And congratulations, Rob. I'll add that in real quick. So, Patrick, probably for you. If we think about the drop in the Macau margins, which was, I think, about 390 basis points or somewhere in that range, wondering how we should think about margins for the rest of the year, maybe how you guys are thinking about margins for the rest of the year.
Steven Wieczynski: And not looking for guidance, so to speak, but just, you know, if we don't have visibility into that base mass business, and we continue to see this shift towards, you know, towards rolling play and even the high end of non-rolling, should we consider the margins we saw in Q4 a pretty good run rate, at least for the foreseeable future?
Speaker #4: And not looking for guidance, so to speak, but just, if we don't have visibility into that base mass business and we continue to see this shift towards rolling play and even the high end of non-rolling, should we consider the margins we saw in the fourth quarter a pretty good run rate, at least for the foreseeable?
Steven Wieczynski: And not looking for guidance, so to speak, but just, you know, if we don't have visibility into that base mass business, and we continue to see this shift towards, you know, towards rolling play and even the high end of non-rolling, should we consider the margins we saw in Q4 a pretty good run rate, at least for the foreseeable future?
Speaker #4: future? Yeah, I think the way we think
Patrick Dumont: Yeah. I think the way we think about it is that we sort of think about this business as a low 30s margin business, low 30% margin business, just given the mix of play and, who's coming to the buildings, the promotional activity necessary, to support the patrons. You know, if the base mass comes back, in some way, like it existed pre-pandemic, that's a very high margin business, and our margin structure can change positively. If we overweight towards, VIP play, which is a lower margin business, the margin may be a little bit tighter. But we'd like to believe this is a low 30s margin business, and go from there. But I think right now, we're really focused on growing revenue, growing EBITDA, and the long-term health of how we grow.
Patrick Dumont: Yeah. I think the way we think about it is that we sort of think about this business as a low 30s margin business, low 30% margin business, just given the mix of play and, who's coming to the buildings, the promotional activity necessary, to support the patrons. You know, if the base mass comes back, in some way, like it existed pre-pandemic, that's a very high margin business, and our margin structure can change positively. If we overweight towards, VIP play, which is a lower margin business, the margin may be a little bit tighter. But we'd like to believe this is a low 30s margin business, and go from there. But I think right now, we're really focused on growing revenue, growing EBITDA, and the long-term health of how we grow.
Speaker #2: about it is that we sort of think about this business as a low 30s margin business, low 30% margins business. Just given the mix of play and who's coming to the buildings, the promotional activity necessary, to support the patrons.
Speaker #2: If the base mass comes back in some way, like it existed pre-pandemic, that's a very high-margin business. And our margin structure can change positively.
Speaker #2: If we overweight towards VIP play, which is a lower-margin business, the margin may be a little bit tighter. But we'd like to believe this is a low-30s margin business and go from there.
Speaker #2: But I think right now we're really focused on growing revenue, growing EBITDA, and the long-term health of how we grow. And we also believe that our investment over time, that we talked about earlier, will allow us to attract high-value patrons and position us well for future growth.
Patrick Dumont: We also believe that our investment over time, that we talked about earlier, will allow us to track high-value patrons and position us well for future growth, and we're focused on all those things.
Patrick Dumont: We also believe that our investment over time, that we talked about earlier, will allow us to track high-value patrons and position us well for future growth, and we're focused on all those things.
Speaker #2: And we're focused on all those
Speaker #2: things. Okay.
Steven Wieczynski: Okay. Thanks for that, Patrick. And then second question, probably for Grant. You know, Grant, wondering if you, you know, if you think about that base mass business, which, you know, which hasn't really returned or improved, one, you know, maybe get your updated thoughts in terms of what you attribute that to, or what factors do you think are, you know, kind of continue to hold that segment of the market back?
Steven Wieczynski: Okay. Thanks for that, Patrick. And then second question, probably for Grant. You know, Grant, wondering if you, you know, if you think about that base mass business, which, you know, which hasn't really returned or improved, one, you know, maybe get your updated thoughts in terms of what you attribute that to, or what factors do you think are, you know, kind of continue to hold that segment of the market back?
Speaker #4: Thanks for that, Patrick. And then, second question, probably for Grant. Grant, wondering if you think about that base mass business, which hasn't really returned or improved—maybe get your updated thoughts in terms of what you attribute that to, or what factors you think are continuing to hold that segment of the market back?
Speaker #2: Steve, thanks for the question. I think when you see the sequential change in the quarter, obviously base mass did not really grow. Whereas premium mass did.
Grant Chum: Steve, thanks for the question. I think when you see the sequential change in the quarter, obviously, base mass did not really grow, whereas premium mass did. I think what you're seeing is that the lower end segments, the spend per head has been on a declining trend versus pre-COVID.
Grant Chum: Steve, thanks for the question. I think when you see the sequential change in the quarter, obviously, base mass did not really grow, whereas premium mass did. I think what you're seeing is that the lower end segments, the spend per head has been on a declining trend versus pre-COVID.
Speaker #2: I think what you're seeing is that the lower-end segments the spend per head has been on a declining trend versus pre-COVID. As to why that is the case, we can speculate different reasons.
Grant Chum: As to why that is the case, you know, we can speculate different reasons, but I think, you know, the most helpful comment we can make on that is simply to, you know, to observe that, yeah, I think since COVID and even in the last few quarters where GGR has accelerated, the base mass, particularly looking at revenue spend per customer in those lower value segments, really has been quite stagnant. And of course, you know, you guys might be in a better position to speculate on drivers from the economy to other factors.
Grant Chum: As to why that is the case, you know, we can speculate different reasons, but I think, you know, the most helpful comment we can make on that is simply to, you know, to observe that, yeah, I think since COVID and even in the last few quarters where GGR has accelerated, the base mass, particularly looking at revenue spend per customer in those lower value segments, really has been quite stagnant. And of course, you know, you guys might be in a better position to speculate on drivers from the economy to other factors.
Speaker #2: But I think the most helpful comment we can make on that is simply to observe that, yeah, I think since COVID and even in the last few quarters where GGR has accelerated, the base mass, particularly looking at revenue spend per customer, in those lower value segments really has been quite stagnant and, of course, you guys might be in a better position to speculate on drivers from the economy to other factors.
Grant Chum: But, you know, we can just tell you, you know, what we're seeing on the ground, in terms of premium mass versus base mass, and you can see those numbers very clearly in the slides that Dan provides.
Speaker #2: But we can just tell you what we're seeing on the ground in terms of premium mass versus base mass. And you can see those numbers very clearly in the slides that Dan provides.
Grant Chum: But, you know, we can just tell you, you know, what we're seeing on the ground, in terms of premium mass versus base mass, and you can see those numbers very clearly in the slides that Dan provides.
Speaker #4: Okay. Gotcha. Thanks, guys. Really appreciate the color.
Steven Wieczynski: Okay, gotcha. Thanks, guys. Really appreciate the color.
Steven Wieczynski: Okay, gotcha. Thanks, guys. Really appreciate the color.
Speaker #1: Thank you. And the next question will be from John Decree from CBRE. John, your line is live.
Daniel J. Briggs: Thank you. The next question will be from John DeCree from CBRE. John, your line is live.
Operator: Thank you. The next question will be from John DeCree from CBRE. John, your line is live.
Speaker #6: Thank you. And Rob, I'll pile on there. Gratitude and congratulations as well. My question Grant also related to that base mass customer, if I could build on maybe Steve's question.
John DeCree: Thank you. And, Rob, I'll pile on the gratitude and congratulations as well. My question, Grant, also related to that base mass customer, if I could build on maybe Steve's question. And so, spend per head is down, but, you know, are you seeing comparable levels of, property visitation from that customer? And is there anything you guys have tried to do to stimulate higher spend? Obviously, the premium segment is quite competitive with player reinvestment, but is there anything you can do to maybe help, you know, get that customer to open up the wallets a little bit more?
John DeCree: Thank you. And, Rob, I'll pile on the gratitude and congratulations as well. My question, Grant, also related to that base mass customer, if I could build on maybe Steve's question. And so, spend per head is down, but, you know, are you seeing comparable levels of, property visitation from that customer? And is there anything you guys have tried to do to stimulate higher spend? Obviously, the premium segment is quite competitive with player reinvestment, but is there anything you can do to maybe help, you know, get that customer to open up the wallets a little bit more?
Speaker #6: And so, spend per head is down, but are you seeing comparable levels of property visitation from that customer? And is there anything you guys have tried to do to stimulate higher spend?
Speaker #6: Obviously, the premium segment is quite competitive with player reinvestment, but is there anything you can do to maybe help get that customer to open up the walls a little bit more?
Speaker #2: Sure. We can, and we are. I think property visitation across Sands China remains very strong. I think we actually slightly exceeded 2019 in 2025, approaching 100 million visitations in the whole year.
Grant Chum: Sure. We can and we are. I think property visitation across Sands China remains very strong. I think we actually slightly exceeded 2019 in 2025, approaching 100 million visitations in the whole year. But that's where we can also see the lower spend per visitation because it hasn't fed through into the base mass revenues to the extent that you would have expected given this level of property visitation.
Grant Chum: Sure. We can and we are. I think property visitation across Sands China remains very strong. I think we actually slightly exceeded 2019 in 2025, approaching 100 million visitations in the whole year. But that's where we can also see the lower spend per visitation because it hasn't fed through into the base mass revenues to the extent that you would have expected given this level of property visitation.
Speaker #2: But that's where we can also see the lower spend per visitation. Because it hasn't fed through into the base mass revenues, to the extent that you would have expected.
Speaker #2: Given this level of property visitation, I think what we have been doing, and what we can continue to do, is to leverage the assets that we have for that base mass and mid-tier across the retail malls that we have, across the entertainment calendar that we provide.
Grant Chum: I think what we have been doing and what we can continue to do is to leverage the assets that we have for that base mass and mid-tier across the retail malls that we have, across the entertainment calendar that we provide, and obviously, you know, all of the attractions that we can offer as the most diverse and extensive integrated resort in Macau. And we're doing all of those things, including, I think really pushing hard on the event calendar, as well as introduce new non-gaming loyalty programs into the market, particularly for the retail mall business. And we're seeing, you know, good take-up and good success in some of those initiatives.
Grant Chum: I think what we have been doing and what we can continue to do is to leverage the assets that we have for that base mass and mid-tier across the retail malls that we have, across the entertainment calendar that we provide, and obviously, you know, all of the attractions that we can offer as the most diverse and extensive integrated resort in Macau. And we're doing all of those things, including, I think really pushing hard on the event calendar, as well as introduce new non-gaming loyalty programs into the market, particularly for the retail mall business. And we're seeing, you know, good take-up and good success in some of those initiatives.
Speaker #2: And obviously, all of the attractions that we can offer, as the most diverse and extensive integrated resort in Macau. And we're doing all of those things including I think really pushing the hard on the event calendar as well as introducing new non-gaming loyalty programs into the market, particularly for the retail mall business.
Speaker #2: And we're seeing good take-up and good success in some of those initiatives. However, when we come back to the base mass gaming, that level of base mass gaming is just not growing as fast as the premium segments.
Grant Chum: However, you know, when you come back to the base mass gaming, that level of base mass gaming is just not growing as fast as the premium segments.
Grant Chum: However, you know, when you come back to the base mass gaming, that level of base mass gaming is just not growing as fast as the premium segments.
Speaker #4: Understood. I appreciate all of that color. Thanks for taking all the questions,
John DeCree: ... Understood. I appreciate all that, Tyler. Thanks for taking all the questions, guys.
John DeCree: ... Understood. I appreciate all that, Tyler. Thanks for taking all the questions, guys.
Speaker #4: guys. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. That concludes today's Q&A session. I would now like to hand the call over to Patrick Dumont for closing remarks.
Operator: Thank you. That concludes today's Q&A session. I would now like to hand the call over to Patrick Dumont for closing remarks.
Speaker #1: That concludes today's Q&A session. I would now like to hand the call over to Patrick Dumont for closing remarks.
Speaker #2: Thank you. One final item today before we complete the call: I would like to mention that Rob is going to be serving in a new role as Senior Advisor to the company for the next two years.
Patrick Dumont: Thank you. One final item today before we complete the call. I would like to mention that Rob is going to be serving in a new role as senior advisor to the company for the next 2 years. On behalf of the company's board of directors, the senior leadership team, all of our team members, I want to use this opportunity to thank Rob for 30 years of extraordinary contributions to the company and for all of his leadership. Rob served in many important leadership roles for LVS. He's also been a strong and vocal advocate for the gaming industry as a whole. There are not many individuals who have given more to this industry than he has. Rob has hired, led, and mentored numerous people over the years.
Patrick Dumont: Thank you. One final item today before we complete the call. I would like to mention that Rob is going to be serving in a new role as senior advisor to the company for the next 2 years. On behalf of the company's board of directors, the senior leadership team, all of our team members, I want to use this opportunity to thank Rob for 30 years of extraordinary contributions to the company and for all of his leadership. Rob served in many important leadership roles for LVS. He's also been a strong and vocal advocate for the gaming industry as a whole. There are not many individuals who have given more to this industry than he has. Rob has hired, led, and mentored numerous people over the years.
Speaker #2: On behalf of the company's board of directors, the senior leadership team, all of our team members, I want to use this opportunity to thank Rob for 30 years of extraordinary contributions to the company and for all of his leadership.
Speaker #2: Rob served in many important leadership roles for LVS. He has also been a strong and vocal advocate for the gaming industry as a whole.
Speaker #2: There are not many individuals who have given more to this industry than he has. Rob has hired, led, and mentored numerous people over the years.
Speaker #2: Many of these people serve in leadership roles in the industry or elsewhere because Rob Goldstein took the time to invest in them and their careers.
Patrick Dumont: Many of these people serve in leadership roles in the industry or elsewhere because Rob Goldstein took the time to invest in them and their careers. Finally, I want to recognize and thank Rob for his steadfast commitment to the Adelson family. Rob and Sheldon had a wonderful friendship and achieved so much together. On behalf of Dr. Adelson and the family, thank you, Rob, for everything you've given this company. Your contributions to this industry and this company are too many to list, but they will always be recognized and appreciated. So in closing, I would like to thank you, and I would like our entire team to look forward to working with you in your new role. Thank you, Rob.
Patrick Dumont: Many of these people serve in leadership roles in the industry or elsewhere because Rob Goldstein took the time to invest in them and their careers. Finally, I want to recognize and thank Rob for his steadfast commitment to the Adelson family. Rob and Sheldon had a wonderful friendship and achieved so much together. On behalf of Dr. Adelson and the family, thank you, Rob, for everything you've given this company. Your contributions to this industry and this company are too many to list, but they will always be recognized and appreciated. So in closing, I would like to thank you, and I would like our entire team to look forward to working with you in your new role. Thank you, Rob.
Speaker #2: Finally, I want to recognize and thank Rob for his steadfast commitment to the Adelson family. Rob and Sheldon had a wonderful friendship and achieved so much together.
Speaker #2: On behalf of Dr. Adelson and the family, thank you, Rob, for everything you've given this company. Your contributions to this industry and this company are too many to list, but they will always be recognized and appreciated.
Speaker #2: So in closing, I would like to thank you. And I would like our entire team to look forward to working with you in your
Speaker #2: new role. Thank you, Rob. Thank you, Patrick.
Robert Glen Goldstein: Thank you, Patrick. Promise better margins in Macau. Stay the course. Thank you very much. Very kind. Thank you for all your kind comments. Appreciate it, and we will improve in Macau and continue to strive for better results. Thank you.
Robert Glen Goldstein: Thank you, Patrick. Promise better margins in Macau. Stay the course. Thank you very much. Very kind. Thank you for all your kind comments. Appreciate it, and we will improve in Macau and continue to strive for better results. Thank you.
Speaker #3: Promise better margins in Macau. We're going to work. Stay the course. Thank you very much. Very kind. Thank you for all your kind comments.
Speaker #3: Thank you. And we will improve in Macau and continue to appreciate and strive for better results. Thank you.
Speaker #1: Thank you. And this does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.
Operator: Thank you, and this does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.
Operator: Thank you, and this does conclude today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time and have a wonderful day. Thank you for your participation.
