WSFS Financial Q4 2025 WSFS Financial Corp Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q4 2025 WSFS Financial Corp Earnings Call
Speaker #1: So after the speaker's remarks, we'll conduct a question-and-answer session. To ask a question at this time, you will need to press star, followed by the number one, on your telephone keypad.
Operator: After the speaker's remarks, we'll conduct a question and answer session. To ask a question at this time, you will need to press star, followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I'd now like to turn the call over to your host for today, Mr. David Burg, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Operator: After the speaker's remarks, we'll conduct a question and answer session. To ask a question at this time, you will need to press star, followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I'd now like to turn the call over to your host for today, Mr. David Burg, Chief Financial Officer. Sir, you may begin.
Speaker #1: As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I'd now like to turn the call over to your host for today, Mr. David Burg.
Speaker #1: Chief Financial Officer, sir, you may begin.
Speaker #2: Great, thank you very much. And good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our fourth quarter 2025 earnings call. Our earnings release and earnings release supplement, which we will refer to on today's call, can be found in the Investor Relations section of our company website.
David Burg: Great. Thank you very much, and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our Q4 2025 earnings call. Our earnings release and earnings release supplement, which we will refer to on today's call, can be found in the investor relations section of our company website. With me on this call are Rodger Levenson, Chairman, President, and CEO, and Art Bacci, Chief Operating Officer. Prior to reviewing our financial results, I would like to read our safe harbor statement. Our discussion today will include information about our management's view of our future expectations, plans, and prospects that constitute forward-looking statements.
David Burg: Great. Thank you very much, and good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining our Q4 2025 earnings call. Our earnings release and earnings release supplement, which we will refer to on today's call, can be found in the investor relations section of our company website. With me on this call are Rodger Levenson, Chairman, President, and CEO, and Art Bacci, Chief Operating Officer. Prior to reviewing our financial results, I would like to read our safe harbor statement. Our discussion today will include information about our management's view of our future expectations, plans, and prospects that constitute forward-looking statements.
Speaker #2: With me on this call are Roger Levinson, Chairman, President, and CEO, and Art Bachi, Chief Operating Officer. Prior to reviewing our financial results, I would like to read our safe harbor statement.
Speaker #2: Our discussion today will include information of our management's view of our future expectations, plans, and prospects that constitute forward-looking statements. Actual results may differ materially from historical results or those indicated by these forward-looking statements, due to risks and uncertainties, including but not limited to the risk factors included in our annual report on Form 10-K and our most recent quarterly report on Form 10-Q, as well as other documents we periodically file with the Securities and Exchange Commission.
David Burg: Actual results may differ materially from historical results or those indicated by these forward-looking statements due to risks and uncertainties, including, but not limited to, the risk factors included in our annual report on Form 10-K and the most recent quarterly reports on Form 10-Q, as well as other documents we periodically file with the Securities and Exchange Commission. All comments made during today's call are subject to the safe harbor statement. I will now turn to our financial results. Our businesses continued to perform very well in the quarter, providing strong momentum moving into 2026. For the fourth quarter, WSFS delivered a core earnings per share of $1.43, a core ROA of 1.42%, and a core return on tangible common equity of 18%, which are all up meaningfully on a year-over-year basis.
Actual results may differ materially from historical results or those indicated by these forward-looking statements due to risks and uncertainties, including, but not limited to, the risk factors included in our annual report on Form 10-K and the most recent quarterly reports on Form 10-Q, as well as other documents we periodically file with the Securities and Exchange Commission. All comments made during today's call are subject to the safe harbor statement. I will now turn to our financial results. Our businesses continued to perform very well in the quarter, providing strong momentum moving into 2026. For the fourth quarter, WSFS delivered a core earnings per share of $1.43, a core ROA of 1.42%, and a core return on tangible common equity of 18%, which are all up meaningfully on a year-over-year basis.
Speaker #2: All comments made during today's call are subject to the safe harbor statement. I will now turn to our financial results. Our business has continued to perform very well in the quarter, providing strong momentum moving into 2026.
Speaker #2: For the fourth quarter, WSFS delivered core earnings per share of $1.43, a core ROA of 1.42%, and a core return on tangible common equity of 18%, which are all up meaningfully on a year-over-year basis.
Speaker #2: These results closed out a successful 2025 that included a full year of core EPS of $5.21, core ROA of 1.39%, and core return on tangible common equity of 18%.
David Burg: These results closed out a successful 2025 that included a full-year Core EPS of $5.21, Core ROA of 1.39%, and core return on tangible common equity of 18%. Our Q4 Core EPS is up 29% over the prior year, and our 2025 full year EPS increased 19% over the prior year. These core results for the fourth quarter exclude several non-core items, which resulted in a $5 million impact to net income, as well as a $0.09 impact to EPS in the quarter. These items are outlined on page 5 of the supplement. Net interest margin was 3.83% for the quarter, down 8 basis points linked-quarter, driven by the rate cuts and a one-time interest recovery last quarter, which accounted for 4 basis points of the decline.
These results closed out a successful 2025 that included a full-year Core EPS of $5.21, Core ROA of 1.39%, and core return on tangible common equity of 18%. Our Q4 Core EPS is up 29% over the prior year, and our 2025 full year EPS increased 19% over the prior year. These core results for the fourth quarter exclude several non-core items, which resulted in a $5 million impact to net income, as well as a $0.09 impact to EPS in the quarter. These items are outlined on page 5 of the supplement. Net interest margin was 3.83% for the quarter, down 8 basis points linked-quarter, driven by the rate cuts and a one-time interest recovery last quarter, which accounted for 4 basis points of the decline.
Speaker #2: Our fourth quarter core EPS is up 29% over the prior year, and our 2025 full-year EPS increased 19% over the prior year. These core results for the fourth quarter exclude several non-core items, which resulted in a $5 million impact to net income, as well as a $0.09 impact to EPS in the quarter.
Speaker #2: These items are outlined on page five of the supplement. Net interest margin was 3.83% for the quarter, down eight basis points linked-quarter, driven by the rate cuts and a one-time interest recovery last quarter, which accounted for four basis points of the decline.
David Burg: Importantly, our NIM is up 3 basis points year-over-year, while absorbing 75 basis points of interest rate cuts since Q4 of 2024. We continue to successfully reprice our deposits, and our exit deposit beta for December was 43%. Core fee revenue increased 2% linked quarter and 8% year-over-year, driven by double-digit growth in wealth and trust, capital markets, and home lending. Our wealth and trust business continues to perform very well and grew 13% year-over-year, with 29% growth in WSFS Institutional Services and 24% growth in BMT of Delaware. For the full year 2025, WSFS Institutional Services was the fourth most active US asset-backed and mortgage-backed securities trustee, with nearly 12% market share, moving up 2 spots in the rankings relative to 2024.
Importantly, our NIM is up 3 basis points year-over-year, while absorbing 75 basis points of interest rate cuts since Q4 of 2024. We continue to successfully reprice our deposits, and our exit deposit beta for December was 43%. Core fee revenue increased 2% linked quarter and 8% year-over-year, driven by double-digit growth in wealth and trust, capital markets, and home lending. Our wealth and trust business continues to perform very well and grew 13% year-over-year, with 29% growth in WSFS Institutional Services and 24% growth in BMT of Delaware. For the full year 2025, WSFS Institutional Services was the fourth most active US asset-backed and mortgage-backed securities trustee, with nearly 12% market share, moving up 2 spots in the rankings relative to 2024.
Speaker #2: Importantly, our NIM is up three basis points year over year, while absorbing 75 basis points of interest rate cuts since the fourth quarter of 2024.
Speaker #2: We continue to successfully reprice our deposits, and our exit deposit beta for December was 43%. Core fee revenue increased 2% linked quarter and 8% year over year, driven by double-digit growth in wealth and trust, capital markets, and home lending.
Speaker #2: Our Wealth and Trust business continues to perform very well and grew 13% year over year, with 29% growth in WSFS Institutional Services and 20% to 24% growth in BMT of Delaware.
Speaker #2: For the full year 2025, WSFS Institutional Services was the fourth most active U.S. asset-backed and mortgage-backed securities trustee, with nearly 12% market share, moving up two spots in the rankings relative to 2024.
Speaker #2: Total gross loans grew 2% linked quarter, or 9% annualized, driven by broad-based growth across our businesses. In commercial, growth was led by C&I, which delivered growth of 4% linked quarter, or 15% annualized.
David Burg: Total gross loans grew 2% linked quarter, or 9% annualized, driven by broad-based growth across our businesses. In commercial, growth was led by C&I, which delivered growth of 4% linked quarter or 15% annualized. Overall, we saw the largest quarterly fundings in over two years. Our residential mortgage and WSFS-originated consumer loans continued to build on their strong momentum and grew 5% linked quarter. Total client deposits increased 2% linked quarter or 10% annualized, with growth across trust, private banking, and consumer. Importantly, our non-interest-bearing deposits grew 6% linked quarter and now represent 32% of our total client deposits. Turning to asset quality, we saw a meaningful improvement across our problem assets due to favorable net migration and payoffs and ended the year at the lowest level in over two years.
Total gross loans grew 2% linked quarter, or 9% annualized, driven by broad-based growth across our businesses. In commercial, growth was led by C&I, which delivered growth of 4% linked quarter or 15% annualized. Overall, we saw the largest quarterly fundings in over two years. Our residential mortgage and WSFS-originated consumer loans continued to build on their strong momentum and grew 5% linked quarter. Total client deposits increased 2% linked quarter or 10% annualized, with growth across trust, private banking, and consumer. Importantly, our non-interest-bearing deposits grew 6% linked quarter and now represent 32% of our total client deposits. Turning to asset quality, we saw a meaningful improvement across our problem assets due to favorable net migration and payoffs and ended the year at the lowest level in over two years.
Speaker #2: And overall, we saw the largest quarterly fundings in over two years. Our residential mortgage and WSFS-originated consumer loans continue to build on their strong momentum and grew 5% linked quarter.
Speaker #2: Total client deposits increased 2% linked quarter, or 10% annualized, with growth across trust, private banking, and consumer. Importantly, our non-interest-bearing deposits grew 6% linked quarter and now represent 32% of our total client deposits.
Speaker #2: Turning to asset quality, we saw a meaningful improvement across our problem assets due to favorable net migration and payoffs, and ended the year at the lowest level in over two years.
Speaker #2: Non-performing assets were essentially flat compared to the prior quarter and ended the year down approximately 40% compared to year-end '24. Delinquencies increased 46 basis points linked quarter due to several previously identified non-performing and problem assets moving to delinquent status in the quarter.
David Burg: Non-performing assets were essentially flat compared to the prior quarter and ended the year down approximately 40% compared to year-end 2024. Delinquencies increased 46 basis points linked quarter due to several previously identified non-performing and problem assets moving to delinquent status in the quarter. 14 basis points of this increase was driven by non-performing loans. The remainder is primarily comprised of two office loans, and one multifamily condo loan in our footprint. One of the office loans was already resolved in January, while the other is a medical office expected to be sold in the first half of 2026, which would result in a full repayment of our loan. We continue to work with the borrower on the remaining loan and believe we're well secured.
Non-performing assets were essentially flat compared to the prior quarter and ended the year down approximately 40% compared to year-end 2024. Delinquencies increased 46 basis points linked quarter due to several previously identified non-performing and problem assets moving to delinquent status in the quarter. 14 basis points of this increase was driven by non-performing loans. The remainder is primarily comprised of two office loans, and one multifamily condo loan in our footprint. One of the office loans was already resolved in January, while the other is a medical office expected to be sold in the first half of 2026, which would result in a full repayment of our loan. We continue to work with the borrower on the remaining loan and believe we're well secured.
Speaker #2: Fourteen basis points of this increase was driven by non-performing loans. The remainder is primarily comprised of two office loans and one multifamily condo loan in our footprint.
Speaker #2: One of the office loans was already resolved in January, while the other is a medical office expected to be sold in the first half of '26, which would result in a full repayment of our loan.
Speaker #2: We continue to work with the borrower on the remaining loan and believe we are well secured. Net charge-offs increased 16 basis points to 46 basis points of average loans, primarily due to the partial charge-off of a non-performing land development loan.
David Burg: Net charge-offs increased 16 basis points to 46 basis points of average loans, primarily due to the partial charge-off of a non-performing land development loan. Net charge-offs were 40 basis points for the year, excluding Upstart, which is on the midpoint of our prior outlook. During the fourth quarter, WSFS returned $119 million of capital, including buybacks of $109 million, or 3.7% of our outstanding shares. This took our total buybacks for the year to $288 million, representing over 9% of our outstanding shares. On slide 15 of the supplement, we provided our 2026 outlook, which assumes a continued stable economy and three 25 basis point rate cuts throughout the year in March, July, and December.
Net charge-offs increased 16 basis points to 46 basis points of average loans, primarily due to the partial charge-off of a non-performing land development loan. Net charge-offs were 40 basis points for the year, excluding Upstart, which is on the midpoint of our prior outlook. During the fourth quarter, WSFS returned $119 million of capital, including buybacks of $109 million, or 3.7% of our outstanding shares. This took our total buybacks for the year to $288 million, representing over 9% of our outstanding shares. On slide 15 of the supplement, we provided our 2026 outlook, which assumes a continued stable economy and three 25 basis point rate cuts throughout the year in March, July, and December.
Speaker #2: Net charge-offs were 40 basis points for the year, excluding Upstart, which is at the midpoint of our prior outlook. During the fourth quarter, WSFS returned $119 million of capital, including buybacks of $109 million, or 3.7% of our outstanding shares.
Speaker #2: This took our total buybacks for the year to $288 million, representing over 9% of our outstanding shares. On slide 15 of the supplement, we provided our 2026 outlook, which assumes a continued stable economy and three 25-basis-point rate cuts throughout the year in March, July, and December.
Speaker #2: Overall, we expect to deliver another year of high performance and growth, with a full-year core ROA of approximately 1.40% and double-digit growth in core EPS.
David Burg: Overall, we expect to deliver another year of high performance and growth with a full-year Core ROA of approximately 1.40% and double-digit growth in Core EPS. As a reminder, we intend to maintain an elevated level of buybacks in line with our previously communicated glide path towards our capital target of 12%, while retaining discretion to adjust the pace of buybacks based on the macro environment, business performance, and potential investment opportunities. We expect mid-single-digit loan growth overall, with low single-digit growth in our consumer portfolio, where we expect continued momentum in residential mortgage and other real estate-secured consumer loans, partially offset by the continued runoff of our Spring EQ partnership portfolio. Building on our strong momentum in deposits in 2025, we expect continued broad-based deposit growth across our businesses in 2026.
Overall, we expect to deliver another year of high performance and growth with a full-year Core ROA of approximately 1.40% and double-digit growth in Core EPS. As a reminder, we intend to maintain an elevated level of buybacks in line with our previously communicated glide path towards our capital target of 12%, while retaining discretion to adjust the pace of buybacks based on the macro environment, business performance, and potential investment opportunities. We expect mid-single-digit loan growth overall, with low single-digit growth in our consumer portfolio, where we expect continued momentum in residential mortgage and other real estate-secured consumer loans, partially offset by the continued runoff of our Spring EQ partnership portfolio. Building on our strong momentum in deposits in 2025, we expect continued broad-based deposit growth across our businesses in 2026.
Speaker #2: As a reminder, we intend to maintain an elevated level of buybacks in line with our previously communicated glide path towards our capital target of 12%.
Speaker #2: While retaining discretion to adjust the pace of buybacks based on the macro environment, business performance, and potential investment opportunities, we expect mid-single digit loan growth overall, with low single digit growth in our consumer portfolio, where we expect continued momentum in residential mortgage and other real estate-secured consumer loans, partially offset by the continued runoff of our Spring EQ partnership portfolio.
Speaker #2: Building on strong momentum in deposits in 2025, we expect continued broad-based deposit growth across our businesses in '26. Our outlook calls for deposit growth in the mid-single digits from Q4 levels.
David Burg: Our outlook calls for deposit growth in the mid-single digits from Q4 levels. Our outlook for NIM is approximately 3.80 for the year, which incorporates the impact of the 3 additional interest rate cuts I mentioned. We continue to focus on deposit repricing opportunities while growing our portfolio and expect to maintain an interest-bearing deposit beta of low to mid-40s throughout the year. While the path and timing of future rate cuts remains uncertain, it's important to note that the impact of additional rate cuts on our financial results will not be linear, as we continue to manage our margins through several levers, including deposit repricing actions, our hedge program, and the securities portfolio strategy. We continue to see momentum and growth opportunities in our fee businesses, which contribute approximately 1/3 of our total revenue.
Our outlook calls for deposit growth in the mid-single digits from Q4 levels. Our outlook for NIM is approximately 3.80 for the year, which incorporates the impact of the 3 additional interest rate cuts I mentioned. We continue to focus on deposit repricing opportunities while growing our portfolio and expect to maintain an interest-bearing deposit beta of low to mid-40s throughout the year. While the path and timing of future rate cuts remains uncertain, it's important to note that the impact of additional rate cuts on our financial results will not be linear, as we continue to manage our margins through several levers, including deposit repricing actions, our hedge program, and the securities portfolio strategy. We continue to see momentum and growth opportunities in our fee businesses, which contribute approximately 1/3 of our total revenue.
Speaker #2: Our outlook for NIM is approximately 3.80% for the year, which incorporates the impact of the three additional interest rate cuts I mentioned. We continue to focus on deposit repricing opportunities while growing our portfolio and expect to maintain an interest-bearing deposit beta in the low to mid-40s throughout the year.
Speaker #2: While the path and timing of future rate cuts remains uncertain, it's important to note that the impact of additional rate cuts on our financial results will not be linear.
Speaker #2: As we continue to manage our margins through several levers, including deposit repricing actions, our hedge program, and the securities portfolio strategy, we continue to see momentum and growth opportunities in our fee businesses, which contribute approximately a third of our total revenue.
Speaker #2: Our overall fee revenue will grow mid-single digits, excluding Cash Connect. Wealth and Trust is expected to continue their strong momentum and again grow double digits in 2026.
David Burg: Our overall fee revenue will grow mid-single digits, excluding Cash Connect. Wealth and Trust is expected to continue their strong momentum and again grow double digits in 2026. Cash Connect revenue is expected to decline due to interest rates, but will be more than offset in expenses. Our focus in Cash Connect continues to be on driving the profit margin, which has increased meaningfully in 2025. Our outlook for net charge-offs is 35 to 45 basis points of average loans for the year, consistent with our 2025 results. While we have seen strong improvement in problem loans and non-performing assets, commercial loan losses may remain uneven. Our outlook calls for an efficiency ratio in the high fifties for the year.
Our overall fee revenue will grow mid-single digits, excluding Cash Connect. Wealth and Trust is expected to continue their strong momentum and again grow double digits in 2026. Cash Connect revenue is expected to decline due to interest rates, but will be more than offset in expenses. Our focus in Cash Connect continues to be on driving the profit margin, which has increased meaningfully in 2025. Our outlook for net charge-offs is 35 to 45 basis points of average loans for the year, consistent with our 2025 results. While we have seen strong improvement in problem loans and non-performing assets, commercial loan losses may remain uneven. Our outlook calls for an efficiency ratio in the high fifties for the year.
Speaker #2: Cash Connect revenue is expected to decline due to interest rates, but will be more than offset in expenses. Our focus in Cash Connect continues to be on driving the profit margin, which has increased meaningfully in 2025.
Speaker #2: Our outlook for net charge-offs is 35 to 45 basis points of average loans for the year, consistent with our 2025 results. While we have seen strong improvement in problem loans and non-performing assets, commercial loan losses may remain uneven.
Speaker #2: Our outlook calls for an efficiency ratio in the high 50s for the year. We plan to maintain strong expense discipline but will continue to leverage opportunities to invest in the franchise, which, coupled with normal seasonality, may result in some variances quarter to quarter.
David Burg: We plan to maintain strong expense discipline, but will continue to leverage opportunities to invest in the franchise, which, coupled with normal seasonality, may result in some variances quarter to quarter. We're excited about the future and remain committed to delivering high performance. Thank you, and we will now open the line for questions.
We plan to maintain strong expense discipline, but will continue to leverage opportunities to invest in the franchise, which, coupled with normal seasonality, may result in some variances quarter to quarter. We're excited about the future and remain committed to delivering high performance. Thank you, and we will now open the line for questions.
Speaker #2: We're excited about the future and remain committed to delivering high performance. Thank you, and we will now open the line for questions. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star, followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
Operator: As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. Our first question comes from Manuel Navas from Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Operator: As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. Our first question comes from Manuel Navas from Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker #2: Our first question comes from Manuel Navas from Piper Sandler. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Speaker #3: Hi. On the loan growth, can you talk a little bit about the better commercial trends and kind of what you are seeing out there in terms of sentiment?
[Analyst] (Piper Sandler): Hi, on the loan growth, can you talk a little bit about the better commercial trends and kind of what are you seeing out there in terms of sentiment? There's some better line utilization. The footings were up. Just kind of talk about what you're seeing in commercial that's driving this kind of strong originations and a good outlook.
Manuel Navas: Hi, on the loan growth, can you talk a little bit about the better commercial trends and kind of what are you seeing out there in terms of sentiment? There's some better line utilization. The footings were up. Just kind of talk about what you're seeing in commercial that's driving this kind of strong originations and a good outlook.
Speaker #3: There's some better line utilization, the footings were up. Just kind of talk about what you're seeing in commercial that's driving this kind of strong originations and a good outlook.
Speaker #4: Yep. Sure. And, well, good afternoon. I'll start off. So in Commercial, as you know, in the first half of last year, there was quite a bit of uncertainty in the economy.
David Burg: Yep, sure. Manuel, good afternoon. I'll start off. So in commercial, as you know, in the first half of last year, there was, you know, quite a bit of uncertainty in the economy, with the tax bill pending, some of the tariffs and legislative issues that were ongoing. I think as you heard Rodger mention a couple of times in our calls in the first couple of quarters of the year, that small business owners and entrepreneurs were... When faced with that kind of uncertainty, you know, were kind of delaying some business decisions. So what happened over the course of the year was we continued those discussions with clients.
David Burg: Yep, sure. Manuel, good afternoon. I'll start off. So in commercial, as you know, in the first half of last year, there was, you know, quite a bit of uncertainty in the economy, with the tax bill pending, some of the tariffs and legislative issues that were ongoing. I think as you heard Rodger mention a couple of times in our calls in the first couple of quarters of the year, that small business owners and entrepreneurs were... When faced with that kind of uncertainty, you know, were kind of delaying some business decisions. So what happened over the course of the year was we continued those discussions with clients.
Speaker #4: With the tax bill pending, some of the tariffs and legislative issues that were ongoing, and I think as you heard Roger mention a couple of times in our calls in the first couple of quarters of the year, small business owners and entrepreneurs were faced with that kind of uncertainty.
Speaker #4: We're kind of delaying some business decisions. And so what happened over the course of the year was we continued those discussions with clients. We saw that pipeline really build in the third quarter, and our pipeline reached over $300 million in the third quarter.
David Burg: We saw that pipeline really build in the third quarter, and our pipeline reached over $300 million in the third quarter. In the fourth quarter, when some of those things crystallized, the environment, you know, people felt better about making some of those decisions with the passage of the tax bill, a little bit more clarity on the legislative front. And so, you know, we saw very strong originations and fundings, and, you know, we continue to see good momentum. We're not going to see that kind of growth every single quarter, but, you know, we feel good about the momentum going forward from here.
We saw that pipeline really build in the third quarter, and our pipeline reached over $300 million in the third quarter. In the fourth quarter, when some of those things crystallized, the environment, you know, people felt better about making some of those decisions with the passage of the tax bill, a little bit more clarity on the legislative front. And so, you know, we saw very strong originations and fundings, and, you know, we continue to see good momentum. We're not going to see that kind of growth every single quarter, but, you know, we feel good about the momentum going forward from here.
Speaker #4: And in the fourth quarter, when some of those things crystallized—whether it was the environment, or people felt better about making some of those decisions with the passage of the tax bill—a little bit more clarity on the legislative front.
Speaker #4: And so, we saw very strong originations and fundings, and we continue to see good momentum. We're not going to see that kind of growth every single quarter, but we feel good about the momentum going forward from here.
Speaker #4: here. I
Speaker #3: Appreciate that. Can I switch over to capital return for a moment? This was a really strong
[Analyst] (Piper Sandler): I appreciate that. Can I switch over to capital return for a moment?
Manuel Navas: I appreciate that. Can I switch over to capital return for a moment?
Speaker #4: Sure.
David Burg: Sure.
David Burg: Sure.
[Analyst] (Piper Sandler): This was, this was a really strong quarter in terms of buybacks. What are kind of your parameters there? Is it just that CET1 ratio? This quarter also had return on AOCI, a little bit lower pricing, kinds of book value per share growth. You hit the 110% total payout. Like, what, what should be the guidepost beyond CET1 going forward?
Manuel Navas: This was, this was a really strong quarter in terms of buybacks. What are kind of your parameters there? Is it just that CET1 ratio? This quarter also had return on AOCI, a little bit lower pricing, kinds of book value per share growth. You hit the 110% total payout. Like, what, what should be the guidepost beyond CET1 going forward?
Speaker #3: Quarter in terms of buybacks, what are kind of your parameters there? Is it just that CET1 ratio? This quarter also had return on AOCI, a little bit lower pricing, kind of book value per share growth.
Speaker #3: You hit the 110% total payout. What should be the guidepost beyond CET1 going forward?
Speaker #3: forward? I
David Burg: I think, Manuel, we look at all of those factors. I would say primarily CET1 and TCE, which does incorporate that AOCI volatility. And of course, you know, if we see our price dip, we take advantage of those opportunities. But generally, you know, our approach is, as you know, the majority of our capital philosophy, our capital return philosophy is through buybacks. Our dividend is kind of in the mid-teens, so about 85% of our capital returns is through buybacks. And we are continuing on this kind of multi-year glide path to get to the capital to our capital target. And so, you know, I think we have the capacity, and you can kind of think about it as returning, you know, roughly 100% of the net income a year.
Speaker #4: Think, Manuel, we look at all of those factors. I would say primarily CET1 and TCE, which does incorporate that AOCI volatility. And of course, if we see our price dip, we take advantage of those opportunities.
David Burg: I think, Manuel, we look at all of those factors. I would say primarily CET1 and TCE, which does incorporate that AOCI volatility. And of course, you know, if we see our price dip, we take advantage of those opportunities. But generally, you know, our approach is, as you know, the majority of our capital philosophy, our capital return philosophy is through buybacks. Our dividend is kind of in the mid-teens, so about 85% of our capital returns is through buybacks. And we are continuing on this kind of multi-year glide path to get to the capital to our capital target. And so, you know, I think we have the capacity, and you can kind of think about it as returning, you know, roughly 100% of the net income a year.
Speaker #4: But generally, our approach is, as you know, the majority of our capital philosophy or capital return philosophies is through buybacks. Our dividend is kind of in the mid-teens.
Speaker #4: So about 85% of our capital returns is through buybacks. And we are continuing on this kind of multi-year glide path to get to our capital target.
Speaker #4: And so, I think we have the capacity, and you can kind of think about it as returning roughly 100% of the net income a year.
David Burg: But I think importantly, you know, we will toggle that up and down, depending on what we see. If there are investment opportunities, you know, we want to take advantage of those. And similarly, if there's some kind of stress in the economy or the market, you know, we may slow that down. So, I think that's kind of the glide path, but all of the factors you mentioned are things we take into account.
Speaker #4: But I think, importantly, we will toggle that up and down depending on what we see. If there are investment opportunities, we want to take advantage of those.
But I think importantly, you know, we will toggle that up and down, depending on what we see. If there are investment opportunities, you know, we want to take advantage of those. And similarly, if there's some kind of stress in the economy or the market, you know, we may slow that down. So, I think that's kind of the glide path, but all of the factors you mentioned are things we take into account.
Speaker #4: And similarly, if there's some kind of stress in the economy or the market, we may slow that down. So I think that's kind of the glide path, but all other factors you mentioned are things we take into account.
Speaker #3: I appreciate that. I'll step back into the
[Analyst] (Piper Sandler): I appreciate that. I'll step back into the queue.
Manuel Navas: I appreciate that. I'll step back into the queue.
Speaker #3: queue. Thank
David Burg: Thank you.
David Burg: Thank you.
Speaker #2: Our next question comes from Russell Gunther from Stevens. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Operator: Our next question comes from Russell Gunther from Stephens. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Operator: Our next question comes from Russell Gunther from Stephens. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Speaker #2: open. Hey, good
[Analyst] (Stephens): ... Hey, good afternoon, guys.
Russell Gunther: ... Hey, good afternoon, guys.
Speaker #4: Hey, afternoon, guys. Russell.
David Burg: Hey, Russell.
David Burg: Hey, Russell.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Hi, David. Wanted to start on Cash Connect, if we could. So, three cuts baked into the outlook. I know Q4 can tend to see some seasonally lower ATM volume. But as you look at the year ahead, what type of revenue hit are you guys anticipating here? And then within that, if you could talk to just overall margin expectations. You mentioned the improvement, I think, from what was a high single digit margin to a low double digit one now. So just helpful to get the puts and takes positive and negative over the course of 2026 in terms of profitability improvement here.
Speaker #5: Hey, David. Wanted to start on Cash Connect if we could. So, three cuts baked into the outlook. I know Q4 can tend to see some seasonally lower ATM volume.
Russell Gunther: Hi, David. Wanted to start on Cash Connect, if we could. So, three cuts baked into the outlook. I know Q4 can tend to see some seasonally lower ATM volume. But as you look at the year ahead, what type of revenue hit are you guys anticipating here? And then within that, if you could talk to just overall margin expectations. You mentioned the improvement, I think, from what was a high single digit margin to a low double digit one now. So just helpful to get the puts and takes positive and negative over the course of 2026 in terms of profitability improvement here.
Speaker #5: But as you look at the year ahead, what type of revenue hit are you guys anticipating here? And then, within that, if you could talk just overall margin expectations.
Speaker #5: You mentioned the improvement, I think, from what was a high single-digit margin to a low double-digit one now. So, just helpful to get the puts and takes, positive and negative, over the course of '26 in terms of profitability improvement here.
Speaker #4: Yep. Sure. Sure, Russell. So, yeah, when you look at Cash Connect, as you mentioned, the interest rates do have an impact on the pricing, on the top line, but that's more than offset in the expenses.
David Burg: Yep, sure. Sure, Russell. So, yeah, when you look at Cash Connect, as you mentioned, the interest rates do have an impact on the pricing, on the top line, but that's more than offset in the expenses, so we do have a margin benefit there. I think the way to think about it is roughly about $2.5 million annual impact per 25 basis points rate cut is kind of roughly, you know, what you should think about on the top line. And so the impact of the rate cuts, like you said, about 3 rate cuts for the year, that's really, you know, kind of the way to think about the impact on the top line for Cash Connect. But you mentioned the margin.
David Burg: Yep, sure. Sure, Russell. So, yeah, when you look at Cash Connect, as you mentioned, the interest rates do have an impact on the pricing, on the top line, but that's more than offset in the expenses, so we do have a margin benefit there. I think the way to think about it is roughly about $2.5 million annual impact per 25 basis points rate cut is kind of roughly, you know, what you should think about on the top line. And so the impact of the rate cuts, like you said, about 3 rate cuts for the year, that's really, you know, kind of the way to think about the impact on the top line for Cash Connect. But you mentioned the margin.
Speaker #4: So we do have a margin benefit there. I think the way to think about it is roughly about $2.5 million annual impact per 25 basis point rate cut.
Speaker #4: It's kind of roughly what you should think about on the top line, and so the impact of the rate cuts, like you said—about three rate cuts for the year—that's really kind of the way to think about the impact on the top line.
Speaker #4: For Cash Connect. But you mentioned the margin. That's really been the story that we've been focused on because of some of that macro pricing. But not only are the interest rates accretive to margin, but we've also been taking a number of other actions to continue to drive margin.
David Burg: That's really been the story that we've been focused on because some of that macro pricing. But not only are the interest rates accretive to margin, but we've also been taking a number of other actions to continue to drive margin. And those are, number one, pricing. We've leveraged some of the scale that we have in the market to increase pricing across our products, and that's been a meaningful benefit. Number two, we've had a couple of things that we're doing around expenses, and that includes both optimizing kind of in-transit cash, as well as just efficient management of expenses in the business. And the third thing that we're doing is, we're taking a look at the client portfolio across that business and thinking about...
That's really been the story that we've been focused on because some of that macro pricing. But not only are the interest rates accretive to margin, but we've also been taking a number of other actions to continue to drive margin. And those are, number one, pricing. We've leveraged some of the scale that we have in the market to increase pricing across our products, and that's been a meaningful benefit. Number two, we've had a couple of things that we're doing around expenses, and that includes both optimizing kind of in-transit cash, as well as just efficient management of expenses in the business. And the third thing that we're doing is, we're taking a look at the client portfolio across that business and thinking about...
Speaker #4: And those are, number one, pricing. We've leveraged some of the scale that we have in the market to increase pricing across our products. That's been a meaningful benefit.
Speaker #4: Number two, we've had a couple of things that we're doing around expenses, and that includes both optimizing kind of in-transit cash, as well as just efficient management of expenses in the business.
Speaker #4: And the third thing that we're doing is we're taking a look at the client portfolio across that business, and thinking about—and as there's a page on the supplement which shows the mix of that business between smart safes and bailment.
David Burg: And you know, as you, there's a page in the supplement which shows the mix of that business between Smart Safes and Bailment. And you can see that Smart Safes have increased year-over-year from about 25% of total volume to about 33% of total units, rather. And the Smart Safes generally come with higher margin and higher kind of value add product. And so as we continue to grow that business, which we think is kind of the growth vector within that business, that should also be accretive to our margins, and that's part of our strategy. So it's a combination of, you know, not just rates, but all of those actions that have allowed us to drive the margin.
And you know, as you, there's a page in the supplement which shows the mix of that business between Smart Safes and Bailment. And you can see that Smart Safes have increased year-over-year from about 25% of total volume to about 33% of total units, rather. And the Smart Safes generally come with higher margin and higher kind of value add product. And so as we continue to grow that business, which we think is kind of the growth vector within that business, that should also be accretive to our margins, and that's part of our strategy. So it's a combination of, you know, not just rates, but all of those actions that have allowed us to drive the margin. The goal is, you know, that we continue to drive that into the mid-single digits, you know, and hopefully higher.
Speaker #4: And you can see that smart safes have increased year over year from about 25% of total volume to about 33% of total units, rather.
Speaker #4: And the smart safes generally come with higher margin and higher kind of value-add products. And so, as we continue to grow that business—which we think is kind of the growth vector within that business—that should also be accretive to our margins.
Speaker #4: And that's part of our strategy. So it's a combination of not just rates, but all of those actions that have allowed us to drive the margin.
David Burg: The goal is, you know, that we continue to drive that into the mid-single digits, you know, and hopefully higher.
Speaker #4: And the goal is that we continue to drive that into the mid-single digits, and hopefully—
Speaker #4: higher. Okay.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay. That's very helpful, David. Thank you. And then just switching gears, overall to expenses. You know, great to see the high fifties efficiency. But outside of the lower result we'll get, like, from the Cash Connect, as we just discussed, are there areas of outright reduction that can support a lower run rate from here? Just trying to think through, you know, what's a decent core noninterest or non-interest expense growth rate for Wizco?
Russell Gunther: Okay. That's very helpful, David. Thank you. And then just switching gears, overall to expenses. You know, great to see the high fifties efficiency. But outside of the lower result we'll get, like, from the Cash Connect, as we just discussed, are there areas of outright reduction that can support a lower run rate from here? Just trying to think through, you know, what's a decent core noninterest or non-interest expense growth rate for Wizco?
Speaker #3: That's very helpful, David. Thank you. And then just switching gears, overall, to expenses—great to see the high-50s efficiency. But outside of the lower result we'll get from the Cash Connect, as we just discussed, are there areas of outright reduction that can support a lower run rate from here?
Speaker #3: Just trying to think through what's a decent core nudge or non-interest expense growth rate for WSFS?
Speaker #4: Yeah, Russell, I would say a couple of things there. Our efficiency for the year this year was 59%. We said high-50s, so we'd like to be in that range or a little bit better next year.
David Burg: Yeah, Russell, I would say a couple things there. You know, our efficiency for the year, this year was 59%. You know, we set high 50s, so we, you know, we'd like to be in that range a little bit better next year. I, you know, we don't want to give a specific number because, as you know, we want to take advantage of opportunities and invest in the franchise. And so if those opportunities exist with talent additions or technology, we want to take advantage of those opportunities, and so that's why quarter-to-quarter there may be fluctuations.
David Burg: Yeah, Russell, I would say a couple things there. You know, our efficiency for the year, this year was 59%. You know, we set high 50s, so we, you know, we'd like to be in that range a little bit better next year. I, you know, we don't want to give a specific number because, as you know, we want to take advantage of opportunities and invest in the franchise. And so if those opportunities exist with talent additions or technology, we want to take advantage of those opportunities, and so that's why quarter-to-quarter there may be fluctuations.
Speaker #4: We don't want to give a specific number because, as you know, we want to take advantage of opportunities and invest in the franchise. And so, if those opportunities exist with talent additions or technology, we want to take advantage of those opportunities.
Speaker #4: And so that's why, quarter to quarter, there may be fluctuations. But to give you a little bit of a sense of other things that we're doing on expenses, we do have a number of different productivity actions that we're taking.
David Burg: But to give you a little bit of a sense of, you know, other things that we're doing on expenses, we do have a number of different productivity actions that we're taking. For example, we've been optimizing our real estate portfolio, and that's been a nice tailwind for us and will continue to be. So we're really leveraging those opportunities hard. Another one is, you know, we have divested a number of products or businesses that are not central to our strategy. Those include Upstart earlier in the year, Commonwealth, Powdermill; we exited the joint venture with Commonwealth, and all of those things are also taking out expenses for things that are, again, not central to our strategy.
But to give you a little bit of a sense of, you know, other things that we're doing on expenses, we do have a number of different productivity actions that we're taking. For example, we've been optimizing our real estate portfolio, and that's been a nice tailwind for us and will continue to be. So we're really leveraging those opportunities hard. Another one is, you know, we have divested a number of products or businesses that are not central to our strategy. Those include Upstart earlier in the year, Commonwealth, Powdermill; we exited the joint venture with Commonwealth, and all of those things are also taking out expenses for things that are, again, not central to our strategy.
Speaker #4: For example, we've been optimizing our real estate portfolio, and that's been a nice tailwind for us, and will continue to be. So we're really leveraging those opportunities hard.
Speaker #4: Another one is we have divested a number of products or businesses that are not central to our strategy. Those include Upstart, earlier in the year, and Common Powder Mill.
Speaker #4: We exited the joint venture with Commonwealth. And all of those things are also taking out expenses for things that are, again, not central to our strategy.
David Burg: And, you know, in addition to all of that, I think having really good, strong discipline around our headcount and expenses overall, including particularly in the shared functions. So, I mean, all of those things give us confidence, but importantly, we want to really continue to invest in the business if those opportunities exist.
Speaker #4: And, in addition to all of that, I think having really good, strong discipline around our headcount and expenses overall, including particularly in the shared functions.
And, you know, in addition to all of that, I think having really good, strong discipline around our headcount and expenses overall, including particularly in the shared functions. So, I mean, all of those things give us confidence, but importantly, we want to really continue to invest in the business if those opportunities exist.
Speaker #4: So, I mean, all of those things give us confidence, but importantly, we want to really continue to invest in the business if those opportunities exist.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay. Yep, I, I hear you. I appreciate it. And then, just last one for me. Curious as to the anticipated mix of deposit growth. So you guys are basically looking to match fund loan growth. Just wondering, any willingness to flex with the below peer loan or deposit ratio around 76%, right? Just maybe fewer market rate deposits. And then I guess an adjacent question really would be just expectations around the overall size of the balance sheet, if you could touch on the investment portfolio and cash balances, how they could trend over the course of the year.
Russell Gunther: Okay. Yep, I, I hear you. I appreciate it. And then, just last one for me. Curious as to the anticipated mix of deposit growth. So you guys are basically looking to match fund loan growth. Just wondering, any willingness to flex with the below peer loan or deposit ratio around 76%, right? Just maybe fewer market rate deposits. And then I guess an adjacent question really would be just expectations around the overall size of the balance sheet, if you could touch on the investment portfolio and cash balances, how they could trend over the course of the year.
Speaker #3: Okay, I hear you. I appreciate it. And then, just last one for me—curious as to whether you guys are basically looking to match-fund the anticipated mix of deposit growth.
Speaker #3: So, loan growth. Just wondering, any willingness to flex what's a below-peer loan or deposit ratio—around 76%, right? Just maybe fewer market rate deposits.
Speaker #3: And then I guess an adjacent question really would be just expectations around the overall size of the balance sheet. If you could touch on the investment portfolio and cash balances, how they could trend over the course of the year.
Speaker #4: Sure. So first on deposits, that's a trade-off that we do take into account. We've been running off—if you look over the course of the year, we've been reducing a little bit of our CD book, and that's been really price-driven.
David Burg: Sure. So, first on deposits, so that, that's, you know, that's a trade-off that we do take into account. We've been running off. If you look over the course of the year, we've been reducing a little bit of our CD book, and that's been really price driven, so it's not an intentional run off, but we've been aggressive on pricing there. And that's really because of the strength of the deposit growth in other businesses, we were able to do that. You know, particularly for clients that only have the CD relationship. So we will continue to look at opportunities to, you know, to flex pricing.
David Burg: Sure. So, first on deposits, so that, that's, you know, that's a trade-off that we do take into account. We've been running off. If you look over the course of the year, we've been reducing a little bit of our CD book, and that's been really price driven, so it's not an intentional run off, but we've been aggressive on pricing there. And that's really because of the strength of the deposit growth in other businesses, we were able to do that. You know, particularly for clients that only have the CD relationship. So we will continue to look at opportunities to, you know, to flex pricing.
Speaker #4: So, it's not intentional runoff, but we've been aggressive on pricing there. And that's really because of the strength of the deposit growth in other businesses—we're able to do that.
Speaker #4: Particularly for clients that only have the CD relationship. So, we will continue to look at opportunities to flex pricing. But, as you know, a lot of our deposit growth has come from non-interest-bearing deposits.
David Burg: But, you know, as you know, a lot of our deposit growth has come from non-interest-bearing deposits, and those are clearly kind of core operating deposits that we certainly want to continue to bring in and are super accretive in the long run. So, I would say we are trying to be fairly aggressive on pricing while continuing to grow core clients and relationships. And on your question around securities portfolio, we have over the course of the year, we've been bringing down our portfolio a bit. I would say over the course of the past, you know, couple of years from elevated levels, now we've reached a point where it's in the low 20s, about 21%. And our intention is to keep it here.
But, you know, as you know, a lot of our deposit growth has come from non-interest-bearing deposits, and those are clearly kind of core operating deposits that we certainly want to continue to bring in and are super accretive in the long run. So, I would say we are trying to be fairly aggressive on pricing while continuing to grow core clients and relationships. And on your question around securities portfolio, we have over the course of the year, we've been bringing down our portfolio a bit.
Speaker #4: And those are clearly kind of core operating deposits that we certainly want to continue to bring in, and are super accretive in the long run.
Speaker #4: So, I would say we are trying to be fairly aggressive on pricing while continuing to grow core clients and relationships. And on your question around the securities portfolio, we have, over the course of the year, been bringing down our portfolio a bit.
I would say over the course of the past, you know, couple of years from elevated levels, now we've reached a point where it's in the low 20s, about 21%. And our intention is to keep it here.So, from this point forward, we're going to anything that really comes off the securities portfolio, we will look to reinvest it in the same type of securities that we essentially have. So, agency, not taking a lot of credit at all, credit risk in any way, MBS, those type of securities, but we're going to keep it flat at this level.
Speaker #4: I would say, over the course of the past couple of years, from elevated levels, now we've reached the point where it's in the low 20s—about 21%.
Speaker #4: And our intention is to keep it here. So, from this point forward, we're going to—anything that really comes off the securities portfolio, we will look to reinvest it in the same type of securities that we essentially have.
David Burg: So, from this point forward, we're going to anything that really comes off the securities portfolio, we will look to reinvest it in the same type of securities that we essentially have. So, agency, not taking a lot of credit at all, credit risk in any way, MBS, those type of securities, but we're going to keep it flat at this level.
Speaker #4: So agency, not taking a lot of credit at all—credit risk, in any way. MBS, those types of securities. But we're going to keep it flat at this level.
Speaker #3: Okay, excellent. Thank you very much for taking my question.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay. Excellent. Thank you very much for taking my question.
Russell Gunther: Okay. Excellent. Thank you very much for taking my question.
Speaker #4: Yep. Thanks, Russell. .
David Burg: Yep. Thanks, Rob.
David Burg: Yep. Thanks, Rob.
Speaker #5: Our next question comes from Kelly Motta from KBW. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Operator: Our next question comes from Kelly Motta from KBW. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Operator: Our next question comes from Kelly Motta from KBW. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker #6: Hey, thanks for the
[Analyst] (KBW): Hey, thanks for the question.
Kelly Motta: Hey, thanks for the question.
Speaker #6: Question: Hi, Kelly. Yeah. Just at a high level, you, over the past year or so, exited a couple of businesses where the risk-adjusted returns weren't there.
David Burg: Hi, Kelly.
David Burg: Hi, Kelly.
[Analyst] (KBW): Just at a high level, you know, you've over the past, you know, year or so, exited a couple businesses where the risk-adjusted returns aren't there. It feels like given your guide and outlook, you know, these headwinds are abating somewhat. Are there any, as you strategically look at your diversified businesses, are there any things that you're continuing to evaluate that you could share or kind of thresholds of profitability you look at of these kind of niche businesses and deposit and loan verticals that you have? Thanks.
Kelly Motta: Just at a high level, you know, you've over the past, you know, year or so, exited a couple businesses where the risk-adjusted returns aren't there. It feels like given your guide and outlook, you know, these headwinds are abating somewhat. Are there any, as you strategically look at your diversified businesses, are there any things that you're continuing to evaluate that you could share or kind of thresholds of profitability you look at of these kind of niche businesses and deposit and loan verticals that you have? Thanks.
Speaker #6: It feels like, given your guide and outlook, these headwinds are abating somewhat. Are there any—as you strategically look at your diversified businesses—are there any things that you're continuing to evaluate that you could share, or kind of thresholds of profitability you look at for these kind of niche businesses and deposit and loan verticals that you have?
Speaker #6: Thanks.
Speaker #4: Yeah, I'll start off, and I'm sure—
David Burg: Yeah, I'll start off, and I'm sure Rodger will weigh in as well. So, Kelly, we continue to, we have an initiative here we call it Relook, where we continue to look at different parts of our business and think about the fit and the strategic fit of that going forward. And that's something that we continue to do, and like you said, we've done a good job of shedding some of those things. You know, at the end of the day, you know, I can't really discuss anything specific that's, you know, on the horizon right now, but it's really, I would say, part of our strategic plan and part of our ongoing strategy to always evaluate those type of things.
David Burg: Yeah, I'll start off, and I'm sure Rodger will weigh in as well. So, Kelly, we continue to, we have an initiative here we call it Relook, where we continue to look at different parts of our business and think about the fit and the strategic fit of that going forward. And that's something that we continue to do, and like you said, we've done a good job of shedding some of those things. You know, at the end of the day, you know, I can't really discuss anything specific that's, you know, on the horizon right now, but it's really, I would say, part of our strategic plan and part of our ongoing strategy to always evaluate those type of things.
Speaker #4: Roger will weigh in as well. So, Kelly, we continue to—we have an initiative here, we call it Relook—where we continue to look at different parts of our business and think about the fit and the strategic fit of that going forward.
Speaker #4: And that's something that we continue to do. And like you said, we've done a good job of shedding some of those things. At the end of the day, I can't really discuss anything specific that's on the horizon right now, but it's really, I would say, part of our strategic plan and part of our ongoing strategy to always evaluate those types of things.
Speaker #3: Yeah, Kelly, it's Roger. I would just add to what David said. I think if you look at the actions we took in '25, those were primarily decisions made in which this looked very different.
Rodger Levenson: Yeah, Kelly, it's Rodger. I would just add to what David said is, I think if you look at the actions we took in 25, those were primarily decisions made, you know, in which this looked very different than we are today. And because they were low scale, low profitability partnerships or businesses that we had, we felt it just made sense for the reasons that David said to move on from those. I don't think there's a large group of followers to that, but I do think, as David said, there's opportunities to relook at a lot of things, you know, that we're doing based on the evolution of the company. And I think this was an important year to kind of start to build some of that muscle.
Rodger Levenson: Yeah, Kelly, it's Rodger. I would just add to what David said is, I think if you look at the actions we took in 25, those were primarily decisions made, you know, in which this looked very different than we are today. And because they were low scale, low profitability partnerships or businesses that we had, we felt it just made sense for the reasons that David said to move on from those. I don't think there's a large group of followers to that, but I do think, as David said, there's opportunities to relook at a lot of things, you know, that we're doing based on the evolution of the company. And I think this was an important year to kind of start to build some of that muscle.
Speaker #3: Than we are today. And because they were low-scale, low-profitability partnerships or businesses that we had, we felt it just made sense, for the reasons that David said, to move on from those.
Speaker #3: I don't think there's a large group of followers to that, but I do think, as David said, there's opportunities to relook at a lot of things that we're doing.
Speaker #3: Based on the evolution of the company, I think this was an important year to start to build some of that muscle.
Speaker #3: We've always been very disciplined, obviously, about evaluating our profitability by business line and shared service area. I think this exercise will help us continue to do that going forward.
Rodger Levenson: We've always been very disciplined, obviously, about, you know, evaluating our profitability by business line and shared service area. I think this exercise will help us continue to do that, going forward. So it's when you go through a period of rapid growth like we did, you know, four or five years ago, I think as you settle into your scale and you see where you're getting that higher growth, you're looking to free up capital and resources to continue to invest in those areas, and in areas where we're not seeing that to, you know, either, redeploy that capital or resources. So it's an important part of our strategic plan, and will continue to be going forward.
We've always been very disciplined, obviously, about, you know, evaluating our profitability by business line and shared service area. I think this exercise will help us continue to do that, going forward. So it's when you go through a period of rapid growth like we did, you know, four or five years ago, I think as you settle into your scale and you see where you're getting that higher growth, you're looking to free up capital and resources to continue to invest in those areas, and in areas where we're not seeing that to, you know, either, redeploy that capital or resources. So it's an important part of our strategic plan, and will continue to be going forward.
Speaker #3: So, when you go through a period of rapid growth like we did four or so years ago, where you're getting that higher settle into your scale, and you—five years ago, I think as you grow, you're looking to free up capital and resources to continue to invest in those areas.
Speaker #3: And in areas where we're not seeing that, to either redeploy that capital or resources. So it's an important part of our strategic plan, and we'll continue to be going forward.
Speaker #6: Got it. That's helpful. Maybe a question on M&A, if I could. It's been several years now since your last deal. I know you've been internally focused, and clearly you've had a nice glide path with what you're doing organically.
[Analyst] (KBW): Got it. That's helpful. Maybe a question on M&A, if I could. It's been several years now since your last deal. I know you've been internally focused and clearly, you know, you've had a nice glide path with what you're doing organically. But, you know, just as we get another year out, you know, entering 2026, I'm wondering if you have any updated thoughts here, given the integration and work you've done so far. Thank you.
Kelly Motta: Got it. That's helpful. Maybe a question on M&A, if I could. It's been several years now since your last deal. I know you've been internally focused and clearly, you know, you've had a nice glide path with what you're doing organically. But, you know, just as we get another year out, you know, entering 2026, I'm wondering if you have any updated thoughts here, given the integration and work you've done so far. Thank you.
Speaker #6: But just as we get another year out, entering 2026, I'm wondering if you have any updated thoughts here. Given the integration and work you've done so far.
Speaker #6: Thank
Speaker #6: you. Yeah.
Rodger Levenson: Yeah, this is, you know, Rodger, again. I'm sure you're referring to bank M&A, which I'll address in a second. But, you know, as David said a couple of times, we're continuing to invest, you know, very heavily, you know, in the business, whether it's the fee businesses, you know, or the banking business. And that could come through, you know, one-off hires or talent or small firms, or it could come as something, you know, larger. As it relates to traditional banking, I, you know, we've been clear over the last year or so that if something came along that would strengthen our position, our very strong position, you know, in the greater Philly, Delaware region, you know, we would absolutely consider that.
Rodger Levenson: Yeah, this is, you know, Rodger, again. I'm sure you're referring to bank M&A, which I'll address in a second. But, you know, as David said a couple of times, we're continuing to invest, you know, very heavily, you know, in the business, whether it's the fee businesses, you know, or the banking business. And that could come through, you know, one-off hires or talent or small firms, or it could come as something, you know, larger. As it relates to traditional banking, I, you know, we've been clear over the last year or so that if something came along that would strengthen our position, our very strong position, you know, in the greater Philly, Delaware region, you know, we would absolutely consider that.
Speaker #3: This is Roger again, and I'm sure you're referring to bank M&A, which I'll address in a second. But as David said a couple of times, we're continuing to invest very heavily in the business, whether it's the fee businesses or the banking business.
Speaker #3: And that could come through one-off lift-outs or talent or small firms, or it could come as something larger. As it relates to traditional banking, we've been clear over the last year or so that if something came along that would strengthen our position—our very strong position—in the Greater Philly/Delaware region, we would absolutely consider that.
Speaker #3: And I think we have demonstrated now our ability to execute on those very well. But we also feel good about the organic growth. And so we can continue to achieve our '26 by focusing on the organic opportunity, and then we'll supplement those with inorganic opportunities should they come along.
Rodger Levenson: I think, you know, we have demonstrated now, you know, our ability to execute on those, you know, very well. But we also feel good about the organic growth. So, you know, we can continue to achieve our objectives as we outlined for 2026, by focusing on the organic opportunity, and then we'll supplement those with, you know, inorganic opportunities, you know, should they come along.
I think, you know, we have demonstrated now, you know, our ability to execute on those, you know, very well. But we also feel good about the organic growth. So, you know, we can continue to achieve our objectives as we outlined for 2026, by focusing on the organic opportunity, and then we'll supplement those with, you know, inorganic opportunities, you know, should they come along.
Speaker #6: Great. Thanks a
[Analyst] (KBW): Great. Thanks a lot.
Kelly Motta: Great. Thanks a lot.
Speaker #6: lot. Thank
Operator: ... Our next question comes from Christopher Marinac from Janney Montgomery Scott. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Operator: ... Our next question comes from Christopher Marinac from Janney Montgomery Scott. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker #5: Our next question comes to you from Christopher Marinak from Janey Montgomery Scott. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Speaker #7: Yeah. Hey, I wanted to look at, sort of, risk-adjusted returns in the loan portfolio and, particularly as Upstart is now behind you, do you see those getting stronger, or does the rate environment sort of limit what you can get on a risk-adjusted basis?
[Analyst] (Janney Montgomery Scott): Yeah. Hey, I wanted to look at sort of risk-adjusted returns in the loan portfolio and, you know, particularly as Upstart is now behind you. You know, do you see those getting stronger, or does the rate environment sort of limit what you can get on a risk-adjusted return?
Christopher Marinac: Yeah. Hey, I wanted to look at sort of risk-adjusted returns in the loan portfolio and, you know, particularly as Upstart is now behind you. You know, do you see those getting stronger, or does the rate environment sort of limit what you can get on a risk-adjusted return?
Speaker #7: return?
Speaker #4: Hey,
David Burg: Hey, Chris, it's David. Yeah, so when you look at our loan pricing and our risk-adjusted returns, you know, it's really a combination of the different businesses that we have. Like you said, if you look at the consumer business, we've divested Upstart, and really, most of the portfolio is now a real estate secured portfolio. And so, you know, when we think about kind of risk-adjusted returns, and going a little bit to the previous question, really, we want to focus on things where we feel we have a, you know, a competitive advantage and are able to originate better than others in the market, and that's really around the home lending product.
David Burg: Hey, Chris, it's David. Yeah, so when you look at our loan pricing and our risk-adjusted returns, you know, it's really a combination of the different businesses that we have. Like you said, if you look at the consumer business, we've divested Upstart, and really, most of the portfolio is now a real estate secured portfolio. And so, you know, when we think about kind of risk-adjusted returns, and going a little bit to the previous question, really, we want to focus on things where we feel we have a, you know, a competitive advantage and are able to originate better than others in the market, and that's really around the home lending product.
Speaker #4: Chris. It's David. Yeah. I think so when you look at our when you look at our loan pricing and our risk-adjusted returns, it's really a combination of the different businesses that we have.
Speaker #4: Like you said, if you look at the consumer business, we've divested Upstart, and really most of the portfolio is now a real estate-secured portfolio.
Speaker #4: And so, when we think about kind of risk-adjusted returns, and going a little bit to the previous question, really, we want to focus on things where we feel we have a competitive advantage and are able to originate better than others in the market.
Speaker #4: And that's really around the home lending product. And that goes both to—and that really goes to—risk-adjusted returns and our ability to not just grow, but also grow at the right price points.
David Burg: And that really goes to risk-adjusted returns and our ability to not just grow, but also grow at the right price points. And so, you know, that's why when you think about our growth going forward, it's really on the residential side, on the home equity line side, installment line side, but kind of on that real estate secured portfolio, where losses, you know, have a very different profile than on the unsecured portfolios that we've seen. On the commercial side, you know, we continue to be, you know, the primary product is really the C&I relationship product, and that's really where we continue to see the growth. We are not the lowest price point in the market.
And that really goes to risk-adjusted returns and our ability to not just grow, but also grow at the right price points. And so, you know, that's why when you think about our growth going forward, it's really on the residential side, on the home equity line side, installment line side, but kind of on that real estate secured portfolio, where losses, you know, have a very different profile than on the unsecured portfolios that we've seen. On the commercial side, you know, we continue to be, you know, the primary product is really the C&I relationship product, and that's really where we continue to see the growth. We are not the lowest price point in the market.
Speaker #4: And so that's why, when you think about our growth going forward, it's really on the residential side—on the home equity line side, installment line side, but kind of on that real estate-secured portfolio, where losses have a very different profile than on the unsecured portfolios.
Speaker #4: That we've seen. On the commercial side, we continue to be—the primary product is really the C&I relationship product, and that's really where we continue to see the growth.
Speaker #4: We are not the lowest price point in the market. We sell, kind of, our relationship, our ability to provide different products, our ability to provide superior customer service, and that personalized touch.
David Burg: We are, you know, we sell kind of our relationship, our ability to provide different products, our ability to provide superior customer service and that personalized touch. That's really what we think is our competitive advantage. And so, you know, we're not the lowest price point in the market, but we think we're the best service in the market and the best, most responsive in the market. And so that's what we're going to continue to lean on. So C&I is our primary product, but commercial real estate continues to be an important product that we're going to continue to grow with the right sponsors with whom we have relationships, and, you know, who are known in our footprint.
We are, you know, we sell kind of our relationship, our ability to provide different products, our ability to provide superior customer service and that personalized touch. That's really what we think is our competitive advantage. And so, you know, we're not the lowest price point in the market, but we think we're the best service in the market and the best, most responsive in the market. And so that's what we're going to continue to lean on. So C&I is our primary product, but commercial real estate continues to be an important product that we're going to continue to grow with the right sponsors with whom we have relationships, and, you know, who are known in our footprint.
Speaker #4: That's really what we think is our competitive advantage. And so, we're not the lowest price point in the market, but we think we're the best service in the market.
Speaker #4: And the most responsive in the market. And so that's what we're going to continue to lean on. So C&I is our primary product, but commercial real estate continues to be an important product that we're going to continue to grow.
Speaker #4: With the right sponsors, with whom we have relationships and who are known in our footprint.
Rodger Levenson: Hey, Chris, this is Rodger. I obviously 100% agree with what David-- The other component, which you'll hear us continue to talk about more, is getting more out of our client relationships, particularly C&I, but across the platform by, you know, referrals throughout our franchise, especially on the wealth side. So, I think it's taking that total relationship view and allocating that to various products, is where we see an opportunity to get a little bit more overall profitability through the franchise, just because of the strength of the relationship. I think we've done a good job on that front, but we also feel like we're just getting started, particularly on those referrals, you know, into wealth, and vice versa.
Rodger Levenson: Hey, Chris, this is Rodger. I obviously 100% agree with what David-- The other component, which you'll hear us continue to talk about more, is getting more out of our client relationships, particularly C&I, but across the platform by, you know, referrals throughout our franchise, especially on the wealth side. So, I think it's taking that total relationship view and allocating that to various products, is where we see an opportunity to get a little bit more overall profitability through the franchise, just because of the strength of the relationship. I think we've done a good job on that front, but we also feel like we're just getting started, particularly on those referrals, you know, into wealth, and vice versa.
Speaker #3: Hey, Chris, this is Roger. Obviously, 100% agree with what David. The other component, which you'll hear us continue to talk about more, is getting more out of our client relationships—particularly C&I, but across the platform—by referrals throughout our franchise, especially on the wealth side.
Speaker #3: So I think it’s taking that total, that, to various products is where we see a relationship view, and allocating opportunity to get a little bit more overall profitability through the franchise just because of the strength of the relationship.
Speaker #3: I think we’ve done a good job on that front, but we also feel like we’re just getting started, particularly on those referrals into Wealth and vice versa.
Speaker #7: Great, thank you both for that. I appreciate it. And then, David, just a quick question on taxes. Is that sort of 24–25% range still a good number to think about going forward?
[Analyst] (Janney Montgomery Scott): Great. Thank you both for that. I appreciate it. And then, David, just a quick question on taxes. Is that sort of 24, 25 range, still a good number to think about going forward?
Christopher Marinac: Great. Thank you both for that. I appreciate it. And then, David, just a quick question on taxes. Is that sort of 24, 25 range, still a good number to think about going forward?
Speaker #4: Yep. Yeah. That's a good number. Yeah. The tax bill really didn't have a material impact on our business, maybe a little bit of a negative impact because some deductions are no longer allowed—charitable deductions, for example, up to a certain point.
David Burg: Yep. Yeah, that's a good number. Yeah, the tax bill really didn't have a material impact, you know, on our business. Maybe, a little bit of a negative impact because some deductions are no longer allowed, charitable deductions, for example, up to a certain point. So, a small impact, but generally, that, that's the right range.
David Burg: Yep. Yeah, that's a good number. Yeah, the tax bill really didn't have a material impact, you know, on our business. Maybe, a little bit of a negative impact because some deductions are no longer allowed, charitable deductions, for example, up to a certain point. So, a small impact, but generally, that, that's the right range.
Speaker #4: So, a small impact, but generally that's the right range.
Speaker #7: Okay. Very well.
[Analyst] (Janney Montgomery Scott): Okay. Very well. Thank you both. I appreciate it.
Christopher Marinac: Okay. Very well. Thank you both. I appreciate it.
Speaker #7: Thank you both. I appreciate it.
Speaker #4: Thank
Speaker #4: you,
David Burg: Thank you, Chris.
David Burg: Thank you, Chris.
Speaker #4: Chris, our next question comes from Janet Lee.
Operator: Our next question comes from Janet Lee from TD Cowen. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Operator: Our next question comes from Janet Lee from TD Cowen. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker #5: From TD Cowen, please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker #8: Good afternoon.
[Analyst] (TD Cowen): Good afternoon.
Janet Lee: Good afternoon.
Speaker #4: Hey, Janet. I want
David Burg: Hey, Janet.
David Burg: Hey, Janet.
[Analyst] (TD Cowen): I want to step back and understand the driver behind your strong, very strong, non-interest-bearing deposit growth in the quarter. I assume a lot of that has to do with wealth and trust momentum that has been growing. And aside from the deposits, the wealth and trust revenue on the fee side is also growing double digits. So I want to understand, is it a function of your overall institutional trust market increasing, or are you taking market share? I want to understand the competitive dynamics there and whether that $340 million of non-interest-bearing deposit increase in the quarter should normalize in the quarter ahead. Thank you.
Speaker #5: To step back and understand the driver behind your strong—very strong—non-interest-bearing deposit growth in the quarter, I assume a lot of that has to do with wealth and trust momentum that has been growing.
Janet Lee: I want to step back and understand the driver behind your strong, very strong, non-interest-bearing deposit growth in the quarter. I assume a lot of that has to do with wealth and trust momentum that has been growing. And aside from the deposits, the wealth and trust revenue on the fee side is also growing double digits. So I want to understand, is it a function of your overall institutional trust market increasing, or are you taking market share? I want to understand the competitive dynamics there and whether that $340 million of non-interest-bearing deposit increase in the quarter should normalize in the quarter ahead. Thank you.
Speaker #5: In terms of, and aside from, the deposits, the wealth and trust revenue on the fee side is also growing double digits. So I want to understand—is it a function of your overall institutional trust market increasing, or are you taking market share?
Speaker #5: I want to understand the competitive dynamics there, and whether that $340 million of non-interest-bearing, quarter-over-quarter, should normalize in the quarter ahead? Thank you. Deposit increase in the you.
Speaker #4: Hey, Janet. It's David. Thanks for the question. So yes, I think generally we expect that our non-interest deposit growth will be consistent with our interest-bearing deposit growth.
David Burg: Hey, Janet, it's David. Thanks for the question. So yes, I think generally, we expect that our non-interest deposit growth will be consistent with our interest-bearing deposit growth. So we want to continue to at least maintain that NIB ratio and, of course, try to grow it. So I'm not sure, you know, the growth that you saw this quarter, the 6% quarter-over-quarter growth, you know, that's probably not -- we're not going to put up that kind of growth every single quarter, but generally, we want to continue to grow those at least in line with total deposits. And I would say importantly, the growth that you've seen came from two businesses.
David Burg: Hey, Janet, it's David. Thanks for the question. So yes, I think generally, we expect that our non-interest deposit growth will be consistent with our interest-bearing deposit growth. So we want to continue to at least maintain that NIB ratio and, of course, try to grow it. So I'm not sure, you know, the growth that you saw this quarter, the 6% quarter-over-quarter growth, you know, that's probably not -- we're not going to put up that kind of growth every single quarter, but generally, we want to continue to grow those at least in line with total deposits. And I would say importantly, the growth that you've seen came from two businesses.
Speaker #4: So we want to continue to at least maintain that IB ratio, and of course, try to grow it. So I'm not sure the growth that you saw this quarter — the 6% quarter-over-quarter growth — that's probably not, we're not going to put up that kind of growth every single quarter.
Speaker #4: But generally, we want to continue to grow those at least in line with total deposits. And I would say, importantly, the growth that you've seen came from two businesses.
Speaker #4: One is trust, and two is private banking, predominantly, in this particular quarter. But importantly, when you look at the composition of non-interest-bearing deposits across our business, it's pretty broad-based.
David Burg: One is trust, and two is private banking, predominantly in this particular quarter. But importantly, when you look at the composition of non-interest-bearing deposits across our business, it's pretty broad-based. About 40% of that is in consumer, about 35% of that is across trust and private banking, and about 25% of that is in commercial. So every business is contributing meaningfully to that non-interest-bearing balance, and you know, really comes with the relationship growth and the relationship account growth that we have. Again, while private banking and trust have been, and predominantly trust, the engines this quarter, I think the composition is pretty broad across the business.
One is trust, and two is private banking, predominantly in this particular quarter. But importantly, when you look at the composition of non-interest-bearing deposits across our business, it's pretty broad-based. About 40% of that is in consumer, about 35% of that is across trust and private banking, and about 25% of that is in commercial. So every business is contributing meaningfully to that non-interest-bearing balance, and you know, really comes with the relationship growth and the relationship account growth that we have. Again, while private banking and trust have been, and predominantly trust, the engines this quarter, I think the composition is pretty broad across the business.
Speaker #4: About 40% of that is in Consumer, about 35% of that is across Trust and Private Banking, and about 25% of that is in Commercial.
Speaker #4: So every business is contributing meaningfully to that non-interest-bearing balance. And it really comes with the relationship growth and the relationship account growth that we have.
Speaker #4: So again, while private banking and trust have been—and predominantly trust has been—the engines this quarter, I think the composition is pretty broad across the business.
Speaker #5: Got it. Thanks for the color. And in terms of credit, problem assets and PAs were down quarter-over-quarter. NCOs increased a bit. So given the favorable migration in those problem assets, which I believe you cited that at the lowest level in over two years, how should we think about how do you how does this impact your expectations around where your NCO could land versus that 35 to 45 basis points guide?
[Analyst] (TD Cowen): Got it. Thanks for the color. And in terms of credit, problem assets and NPAs were down quarter-over-quarter, NCOs increased a bit. So given the favorable migration in those problem assets, which I believe you cited that at the lowest level in over two years, how should we think about- how do you- how does this impact your expectations around where your NCO could land versus that 35 to 45 basis points guide?
Janet Lee: Got it. Thanks for the color. And in terms of credit, problem assets and NPAs were down quarter-over-quarter, NCOs increased a bit. So given the favorable migration in those problem assets, which I believe you cited that at the lowest level in over two years, how should we think about- how do you- how does this impact your expectations around where your NCO could land versus that 35 to 45 basis points guide?
Speaker #4: Yeah, so you're absolutely right in terms of our problem assets, and we've had the migration. We're down about $95 million, and it was a combination of just migration as well as payoffs and paydowns that contributed to that.
David Burg: Yeah, so the, so you're absolutely right in terms of our problem assets, and we've had the migration, you know, we're down about $95 million. It was a combination of just migration as well as payoffs and pay downs that contributed to that. I would say in terms of our net charge-off guide, you know, this year, if you exclude Upstart, we were 40 basis points, and we assume we're gonna be in the same position next year. Really, you know, commercial is gonna continue to be uneven. And that's really kind of the message. So you may see some fluctuations there. You know, some of the non-performing assets, you know, you may see some of those go to loss.
David Burg: Yeah, so the, so you're absolutely right in terms of our problem assets, and we've had the migration, you know, we're down about $95 million. It was a combination of just migration as well as payoffs and pay downs that contributed to that. I would say in terms of our net charge-off guide, you know, this year, if you exclude Upstart, we were 40 basis points, and we assume we're gonna be in the same position next year. Really, you know, commercial is gonna continue to be uneven. And that's really kind of the message. So you may see some fluctuations there. You know, some of the non-performing assets, you know, you may see some of those go to loss.
Speaker #4: I would say, in terms of our net charge-off guide, this year, if you exclude Upstart, we were at 40 basis points. And we assume we're going to be in the same position next year.
Speaker #4: Really, commercial is going to continue to be uneven, and that's really kind of the message. So you may see some fluctuations there, some of the non-performing assets.
Speaker #4: You may see some of those go to loss, but at the end of the day, I think we continue to feel good about our portfolio.
David Burg: But at the end of the day, I think we continue to feel good about our portfolio. And one of the things that differentiates us in our commercial real estate portfolio is the fact that we have a very high level of recourse. So, you know, we have in our office portfolio, we have 80% recourse, in our multifamily portfolio with 86% recourse. And so, those, in addition to the asset collateral, makes us feel better about, you know, those portfolios, but they will continue to be uneven. And then on the consumer side, you know, with the divestiture of the Upstart portfolio, really the majority of it is real estate secured.
But at the end of the day, I think we continue to feel good about our portfolio. And one of the things that differentiates us in our commercial real estate portfolio is the fact that we have a very high level of recourse. So, you know, we have in our office portfolio, we have 80% recourse, in our multifamily portfolio with 86% recourse. And so, those, in addition to the asset collateral, makes us feel better about, you know, those portfolios, but they will continue to be uneven. And then on the consumer side, you know, with the divestiture of the Upstart portfolio, really the majority of it is real estate secured. And so, you know, that portfolio from a net charge-off perspective has been low and continues to behave very well.
Speaker #4: And one of the things that differentiates us in our commercial real estate portfolio is the fact that we have a very high level of recourse.
Speaker #4: So, we have in our office portfolio, we have 80% recourse. In our multifamily portfolio, we have 86% recourse. And so, those, in addition to the asset collateral, make us feel better about those portfolios.
Speaker #4: But they will continue to be uneven. And then on the consumer side, with the divestiture of the Upstart portfolio, really the majority of it is real estate secured.
David Burg: And so, you know, that portfolio from a net charge-off perspective has been low and continues to behave very well.
Speaker #4: And so that portfolio, from a net charge-off perspective, has been low and continues to behave very well.
Speaker #5: Thank you. Our last question comes from Manuel Navas from Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
[Analyst] (TD Cowen): Thank you.
Janet Lee: Thank you.
Operator: Our last question comes from Manuel Navas from Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Operator: Our last question comes from Manuel Navas from Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker #9: Hey, hopping on to try to clarify something. Is the double-digit EPS growth on core or reported EPS?
[Analyst] (Piper Sandler): Hey, hopping on to try to clarify something. Is the double-digit EPS growth on core or reported EPS?
Manuel Navas: Hey, hopping on to try to clarify something. Is the double-digit EPS growth on core or reported EPS?
Speaker #4: It's core. It's looking at core relative to core. Manuel.
David Burg: It's on, it's on, it's, it's core. It's looking at core relative to core, Manuel.
David Burg: It's on, it's on, it's, it's core. It's looking at core relative to core, Manuel.
Speaker #9: Okay, great. Quick question on the NIM with that guide. Has there been any shifts in your hedging profile? Any other kind of wildcards in the NIM outlook?
[Analyst] (Piper Sandler): Okay, great.
Manuel Navas: Okay, great.
David Burg: Yeah.
David Burg: Yeah.
[Analyst] (Piper Sandler): Quick question on the NIM with that guide. Has there been any shifts in your hedging profile, and any other kind of wild cards in the NIM outlook?
Manuel Navas: Quick question on the NIM with that guide. Has there been any shifts in your hedging profile, and any other kind of wild cards in the NIM outlook?
Speaker #4: No, no wildcards. As you know, our NIM—as you see, our NIM outlook is for 3.80%. We finished the quarter at 3.83%. Our exit rate for the quarter in December was also 3.83%.
David Burg: No, no, no wild cards. As you know, our NIM, as you see, our NIM outlook is for 3.80%. We finished. The quarter was 3.83%. Our exit rate for the quarter in December was also 3.83%. So, we are, we're trying to manage the interest rate cuts that we're forecasting or assuming in the outlook for next year. You know, and we do that through three ways. Deposit pricing being the main one, but also the hedging program and the securities portfolio. And, on the hedging program, we are, to give a quick update there, we have about $1.3 billion of hedges that are currently in the money, and with another rate cut, we would have $1.5 billion of hedges that are in the money.
David Burg: No, no, no wild cards. As you know, our NIM, as you see, our NIM outlook is for 3.80%. We finished. The quarter was 3.83%. Our exit rate for the quarter in December was also 3.83%. So, we are, we're trying to manage the interest rate cuts that we're forecasting or assuming in the outlook for next year. You know, and we do that through three ways. Deposit pricing being the main one, but also the hedging program and the securities portfolio. And, on the hedging program, we are, to give a quick update there, we have about $1.3 billion of hedges that are currently in the money, and with another rate cut, we would have $1.5 billion of hedges that are in the money.
Speaker #4: So, we are—we're trying to manage the interest rate cuts that we're forecasting or assuming in the outlook for next year, and we do that through three ways.
Speaker #4: Deposit pricing being the main one, but also the hedging program and the securities portfolio. And on the hedging program, we'll give a quick update there.
Speaker #4: We have about $1.3 billion of hedges that are currently in the money. And with another rate cut, we would have $1.5 billion of hedges that are in the money.
Speaker #4: So that's an important tool that we use to mitigate subsequent rate cuts. And then, the securities portfolio, as I mentioned earlier, we're reinvesting that now and kind of keeping it flat.
David Burg: So that's an important tool that we use to mitigate subsequent rate cuts. And then the securities portfolio, as I mentioned earlier, we're reinvesting that now and kind of keeping it flat, and that's providing an uplift because the security portfolio is yielding, the yield on that portfolio is like 2, 2.35, 2.4, and we're reinvesting that at about 4.3, 4.4. So about 200 basis point uplift, which is offsetting some of the interest rate impact. So all of that put together, that's why the impact for next year, you know, is a bit less than what the sensitivity would suggest. But that's, you know, those are the things we continue to manage.
So that's an important tool that we use to mitigate subsequent rate cuts. And then the securities portfolio, as I mentioned earlier, we're reinvesting that now and kind of keeping it flat, and that's providing an uplift because the security portfolio is yielding, the yield on that portfolio is like 2, 2.35, 2.4, and we're reinvesting that at about 4.3, 4.4. So about 200 basis point uplift, which is offsetting some of the interest rate impact. So all of that put together, that's why the impact for next year, you know, is a bit less than what the sensitivity would suggest. But that's, you know, those are the things we continue to manage.
Speaker #4: And that's providing an uplift because the security portfolio is yielding—the yield on that portfolio is like 2.35%, 2.4%. And we're reinvesting that at about 4.3%, 4.4%.
Speaker #4: So, about a 200 basis point uplift, which is offsetting some of the interest rate impact. So, all of that put together, that's why the impact for next year is a bit less than what the sensitivity would suggest.
Speaker #4: But those are the things we continue to manage.
[Analyst] (Piper Sandler): With that, you described really strong deposit growth with this outlook, and I think you talked a little bit about it in the trust business, but where do you see all that, the growth across all your other businesses? What are kind of the opportunities for deposit growth?
Speaker #9: And with that, you described really strong deposit growth with this outlook. And I think you talked a little bit about it in the trust business.
Manuel Navas: With that, you described really strong deposit growth with this outlook, and I think you talked a little bit about it in the trust business, but where do you see all that, the growth across all your other businesses? What are kind of the opportunities for deposit growth?
Speaker #9: But where do you see all the growth across all your other businesses? What are the opportunities for deposit growth?
Speaker #4: So yeah, our outlook—our goal—is really for continued mid-single-digit deposit growth. As you know, in Institutional Services, we've continued to increase share, and we believe we're going to continue to do that.
David Burg: So, yeah, our outlook, our goal is really for continued mid-single-digit deposit growth. As you know, in institutional services, we've continued to increase share, and we believe we're gonna continue to do that. So that continues to be a growth engine. Rodger mentioned the referrals that we're working on within commercial and wealth, and we think there's a huge opportunity for us around that that we haven't tapped yet. So that should power additional deposit growth as well. And again, you know, growing the C&I portfolio is also an important source of deposits for us.
David Burg: So, yeah, our outlook, our goal is really for continued mid-single-digit deposit growth. As you know, in institutional services, we've continued to increase share, and we believe we're gonna continue to do that. So that continues to be a growth engine. Rodger mentioned the referrals that we're working on within commercial and wealth, and we think there's a huge opportunity for us around that that we haven't tapped yet. So that should power additional deposit growth as well. And again, you know, growing the C&I portfolio is also an important source of deposits for us.
Speaker #4: So, that continues to be a growth engine. Roger mentioned the referrals that we're working on within Commercial and Wealth, and we think there's a huge opportunity for us around that that we haven't tapped yet.
Speaker #4: So, that should power additional deposit growth as well. And again, growing the C&I portfolio is also an important source of deposits for us.
David Burg: So the combination of all those things, I would say, as well as, you know, small business is also an important contributor of deposits that, that we think, the growth is gonna accelerate there. So, you know, we, we do feel good about the mix of businesses and, and all of them contributing.
Speaker #4: So the combination of all those things, I would say, as well as small business, is also an important contributor of deposits, that we think the growth is going to accelerate there.
So the combination of all those things, I would say, as well as, you know, small business is also an important contributor of deposits that, that we think, the growth is gonna accelerate there. So, you know, we, we do feel good about the mix of businesses and, and all of them contributing.
Speaker #4: So, we do feel good about the mix of businesses, and all of them contributing.
Speaker #9: I appreciate the commentary. Thank you.
[Analyst] (Piper Sandler): I appreciate the commentary. Thank you.
Manuel Navas: I appreciate the commentary. Thank you.
Speaker #5: Thank you. And with no further questions in queue, I would like to turn the conference back over to David Burg.
Operator: Thank you. With no further questions in queue, I would like to turn the conference back over to David Burg.
Operator: Thank you. With no further questions in queue, I would like to turn the conference back over to David Burg.
Speaker #9: Okay, thank you, everyone, for joining the call today. If you have any specific follow-up questions, feel free to reach out to Investor Relations or me.
David Burg: Okay. Thank you everyone for joining the call today. If you have any specific follow-up questions, feel free to reach out to Investor Relations or me, and, and have a great day.
David Burg: Okay. Thank you everyone for joining the call today. If you have any specific follow-up questions, feel free to reach out to Investor Relations or me, and, and have a great day.
Speaker #9: And have a great day.
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect.
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may disconnect.
