RPC Q4 2025 RPC Inc Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q4 2025 RPC Inc Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Good morning and thank you for joining us for RPC Inc Q4, 2025 earnings conference call. Today's call will be hosted by Ben Palmer, President and CEO, and Mike Schmit, Chief Financial Officer.
Speaker #1: At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. Instructions will be provided at that time for you to queue up for questions.
Speaker #1: I would like to advise everyone that this conference call is being recorded. I will now turn the call over to Mr. Schmit.
Mike Schmit: Thank you, and good morning. Before we begin, I want to remind you that some of the statements that will be made on this call could be forward-looking in nature and reflect a number of known and unknown risks.
Speaker #2: Thank you, and good morning. Before we begin, I want to remind you that some of the statements that will be made on this call could be forward-looking in nature, and reflect a number of known and unknown risks.
Speaker #2: Please refer to our press release, issued today, along with our 10-K and other public filings that outline those risks. All of which can be found on RPC's website at www.rpc dot net.
David Brown: Please refer to our press release issued today, along with our 10-K and other public filings that outline those risks, all of which can be found on RPC's website at www.rpc.net. In today's earnings release and conference call, we'll be referring to several non-GAAP measures of operating performance and liquidity. We believe these non-GAAP measures allow us to compare performance consistently over various periods. Our press release and our website contain reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures. I'll now turn the call over to our President and CEO, Ben Palmer. Thanks, Mike, and thank you for joining our call this morning. Today, we'll talk about our fourth quarter results and provide you with a few operational highlights. Fourth quarter results reflect a sequential revenue decline across the majority of our service lines.
Please refer to our press release issued today, along with our 10-K and other public filings that outline those risks, all of which can be found on RPC's website at www.rpc.net. In today's earnings release and conference call, we'll be referring to several non-GAAP measures of operating performance and liquidity. We believe these non-GAAP measures allow us to compare performance consistently over various periods. Our press release and our website contain reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures. I'll now turn the call over to our President and CEO, Ben Palmer.
Speaker #2: In today's earnings release and conference call, we'll be referring to several non-GAAP measures of operating performance and liquidity. We believe these non-GAAP measures allow us to compare performance consistently over various periods.
Speaker #2: Our press release and our website contain reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures. I'll now turn the call over to our President and CEO, Ben
Speaker #2: Palmer. Thanks,
Ben Palmer: Thanks, Mike, and thank you for joining our call this morning. Today, we'll talk about our fourth quarter results and provide you with a few operational highlights. Fourth quarter results reflect a sequential revenue decline across the majority of our service lines.
Speaker #3: Mike, thank you for joining our call this morning. Today, we'll talk about our Q4 results and provide you with a few operational highlights.
Speaker #3: Q4 results reflect a sequential revenue decline across the majority of our service lines. While October and November were consistent with Q3 monthly activity, we saw weakness in December, particularly later in the month.
David Brown: While October and November were consistent with third quarter monthly activity, we saw weakness in December, particularly later in the month. During the quarter, service lines other than pressure pumping represented 70% of total revenues and saw a 4% sequential decrease compared to the third quarter of 2025, although we did see revenues increase at Spinnaker's cementing business, Patterson Tubular Services' storage and inspection business, and Cudd Pressure Control snubbing and well-control businesses. Within technical services, Thru Tubing Solutions downhole tools revenues decreased 9% sequentially. We saw growth in our Southeast and Northeast regions. Our largest region, the western MidCon, which includes Elk City and Odessa locations, was flat sequentially. Weakness was experienced in the international and the Rocky Mountain regions. Thru Tubing Solutions is a market leader in downhole completion tools and includes a portfolio of products and advanced technologies.
While October and November were consistent with third quarter monthly activity, we saw weakness in December, particularly later in the month. During the quarter, service lines other than pressure pumping represented 70% of total revenues and saw a 4% sequential decrease compared to the third quarter of 2025, although we did see revenues increase at Spinnaker's cementing business, Patterson Tubular Services' storage and inspection business, and Cudd Pressure Control snubbing and well-control businesses.
Speaker #3: During the quarter, service lines other than pressure pumping represented 70% of total revenues, and saw a 4% sequential decrease compared to the third quarter of 2025.
Speaker #3: Although we did see revenues increase at Spinnaker's cementing business, Patterson Tubular Services' storage and inspection business, and cut pressure controls, snubbing and well-controlled businesses.
Within technical services, Thru Tubing Solutions downhole tools revenues decreased 9% sequentially. We saw growth in our Southeast and Northeast regions. Our largest region, the western MidCon, which includes Elk City and Odessa locations, was flat sequentially. Weakness was experienced in the international and the Rocky Mountain regions. Thru Tubing Solutions is a market leader in downhole completion tools and includes a portfolio of products and advanced technologies.
Speaker #3: Within Technical Services, through-tubing solutions downhole tools revenues decreased 9% sequentially. We saw growth in our Southeast and Northeast regions; our largest region, the Western VidCon, which includes Elk City and Odessa locations, was flat sequentially.
Speaker #3: Weakness was experienced in the international and the Rocky Mountain regions. Through Tubing Solutions is a market leader in downhole completion tools and includes a portfolio of products in advanced technologies.
Speaker #3: We have seen success building since our late 2024 rollout of the A10 down-hole motor. The new motor is positioned in the completions market to specifically address today's longer laterals and higher flow rates.
David Brown: We have seen success building since our late 2024 rollout of the 810 Downhole Motor. The new motor is positioned in the completions market to specifically address today's longer laterals and higher flow rates. We believe this tool technology provides customers with unmatched performance and has resulted in incremental share gains. Thru Tubing Solutions continues to expand the rollout of its new metal-on-metal power section component called MetalMax. The product allows for a shorter motor design, higher torque output, reduced downtime, and improved performance in demanding downhole environments. This improved technology allows us to expand to the new markets due to these advantages. We initially prototyped the MetalMax motor in a few key geographic areas and have recently expanded into other regions. Thru Tubing Solutions continues to actively market and develop its UnPlug technology.
We have seen success building since our late 2024 rollout of the 810 Downhole Motor. The new motor is positioned in the completions market to specifically address today's longer laterals and higher flow rates. We believe this tool technology provides customers with unmatched performance and has resulted in incremental share gains.
Speaker #3: We believe this tool technology provides customers with unmatched performance and has resulted in incremental share gains. Through Tubing Solutions continues to expand the rollout of its new metal-on-metal power section component called MetalMax. The product allows for a shorter motor design, higher torque output, reduced downtime, and improved performance in demanding downhole environments.
Thru Tubing Solutions continues to expand the rollout of its new metal-on-metal power section component called MetalMax. The product allows for a shorter motor design, higher torque output, reduced downtime, and improved performance in demanding downhole environments. This improved technology allows us to expand to the new markets due to these advantages. We initially prototyped the MetalMax motor in a few key geographic areas and have recently expanded into other regions. Thru Tubing Solutions continues to actively market and develop its UnPlug technology.
Speaker #3: This improved technology allows us to expand to new markets due to these advantages. We initially prototyped the MetalMax motor in a few key geographic areas and have recently expanded into other regions.
Speaker #3: Through tubing solutions continues to actively market and develop its unplugged technology. This innovative product reduces and can sometimes eliminate the need for bridge plugs during the completion of a well, and delivers faster drill-out times while achieving highly effective stage isolation.
David Brown: This innovative product reduces and can sometimes eliminate the need for bridge plugs during the completion of a well and delivers faster drill-out times while achieving highly effective stage isolation. While the product is early in its life cycle, adoption has steadily increased. Also, within technical services, Cudd Pressure Control revenues were up 1% sequentially led by increases in well-control activity and snubbing, which was up 13% as this equipment was well utilized during the quarter. Cudd Pressure Control snubbing business expects to take delivery of a Big Bore Snubbing Unit in 2026 that is specifically designed for Cavern Gas Storage work. This unit was built to support a long-term customer of their storage well maintenance schedule over the next several years. This work is regulatory driven and is part of our effort to continue diversifying into other markets.
This innovative product reduces and can sometimes eliminate the need for bridge plugs during the completion of a well and delivers faster drill-out times while achieving highly effective stage isolation. While the product is early in its life cycle, adoption has steadily increased. Also, within technical services, Cudd Pressure Control revenues were up 1% sequentially led by increases in well-control activity and snubbing, which was up 13% as this equipment was well utilized during the quarter.
Speaker #3: While the product is early in its life cycle, adoption has steadily increased. Also, within Technical Services, cut pressure controls, revenues were up 1% sequentially, led by increases in well-controlled activity, and snubbing, which was up 13%, as this equipment was well utilized during the quarter.
Cudd Pressure Control snubbing business expects to take delivery of a Big Bore Snubbing Unit in 2026 that is specifically designed for Cavern Gas Storage work. This unit was built to support a long-term customer of their storage well maintenance schedule over the next several years. This work is regulatory driven and is part of our effort to continue diversifying into other markets.
Speaker #3: Cut Pressure Controls, Snubbing Business, expects to take delivery of a big bore snubbing unit in 2026 that is specifically designed for cavern gas storage work.
Speaker #3: This unit was built to support a long-term customer of their storage well maintenance schedule over the next several years. This work is regulatory-driven and is part of our effort to continue diversifying into other markets.
Speaker #3: Coal tubing, our largest service line within cut pressure control, was down 2% sequentially after a really strong third quarter. Our new 2 and 7/8 inch unit continued to be well utilized.
David Brown: Coiled tubing, our largest service line within Cudd Pressure Control, was down 2% sequentially after a really strong third quarter. Our new 2 7/8-inch unit continued to be well utilized. We are upgrading an existing coiled unit to handle the larger 2 7/8-inch tubing, and it's expected to be in service by the middle of 2026. Pintail Completions, the largest wireline provider in the Permian Basin, experienced a decline in revenues of 3% during the quarter. Given our market position, we expect 2026 to trend closely with large Permian operator activity. Cudd Energy Services' pressure pumping business saw a 6% sequential decrease. This decline largely related to holiday shutdowns and a fleet we idled in October. We do not expect to reactivate any fleets until returns improve. Many of our businesses have been impacted by recent winter storms early in the first quarter.
Coiled tubing, our largest service line within Cudd Pressure Control, was down 2% sequentially after a really strong third quarter. Our new 2 7/8-inch unit continued to be well utilized. We are upgrading an existing coiled unit to handle the larger 2 7/8-inch tubing, and it's expected to be in service by the middle of 2026. Pintail Completions, the largest wireline provider in the Permian Basin, experienced a decline in revenues of 3% during the quarter. Given our market position, we expect 2026 to trend closely with large Permian operator activity.
Speaker #3: We are upgrading an existing coil unit to handle the larger 2 and 7/8 inch tubing, and it's expected to be in service by the middle of 2026.
Speaker #3: FinTel Completions, the largest wireline provider in the Permian Basin, experienced a decline in revenues of 3% during the quarter. Given our market position, we expect 2026 to trend closely with large Permian operator activity.
Cudd Energy Services' pressure pumping business saw a 6% sequential decrease. This decline largely related to holiday shutdowns and a fleet we idled in October. We do not expect to reactivate any fleets until returns improve. Many of our businesses have been impacted by recent winter storms early in the first quarter.
Speaker #3: Cut Energy Services' pressure pumping business saw a 6% sequential decrease. This decline was largely related to holiday shutdowns and a fleet we idled in October.
Speaker #3: We do not expect to reactivate any fleets until returns improve. Many of our businesses have been impacted by recent winter storms early in the first quarter.
Speaker #3: While activity is expected to continue as conditions improve, these lost operating days are not fully recoverable, and the associated costs incurred will impact near-term profitability.
David Brown: While activity is expected to continue as conditions improve, these lost operating days are not fully recoverable, and the associated costs incurred will impact near-term profitability. RPC's focus remains on leveraging our strong balance sheet and maximizing long-term shareholder returns. We continue to strategically grow our less capital-intensive service lines, both organically and through acquisitions. With that, Mike will now discuss the quarter's financial results. Thanks, Ben. Our fourth quarter financial results with sequential comparisons to the third quarter of 2025 are as follows. Revenues decreased 5% to $426 million compared to Q3. Breaking down our operating segments, technical services, which represented 95% of our total fourth quarter revenues, was down 4%. Support services, which represented 5% of our revenues, was down 18%.
While activity is expected to continue as conditions improve, these lost operating days are not fully recoverable, and the associated costs incurred will impact near-term profitability. RPC's focus remains on leveraging our strong balance sheet and maximizing long-term shareholder returns. We continue to strategically grow our less capital-intensive service lines, both organically and through acquisitions. With that, Mike will now discuss the quarter's financial results.
Speaker #3: RPC's focus remains on leveraging our strong balance sheet and maximizing long-term shareholder returns. We continue to strategically grow our less capital-intensive service lines, both organically and through acquisitions.
Speaker #3: With that, Mike will now discuss the quarter's financial
Speaker #3: results. Thanks,
Mike Schmit: Thanks, Ben. Our fourth quarter financial results with sequential comparisons to the third quarter of 2025 are as follows. Revenues decreased 5% to $426 million compared to Q3. Breaking down our operating segments, technical services, which represented 95% of our total fourth quarter revenues, was down 4%. Support services, which represented 5% of our revenues, was down 18%.
Speaker #4: Ben. Our fourth quarter financial results were sequential comparisons to the third quarter of 2025. August follows. Revenues decreased 5% to $426 million compared to Q3.
Speaker #4: Breaking down our operating segments, technical services—which represented 95% of our total fourth quarter revenues—was down 4%. Support services, which represented 5% of our revenues, was down 18%.
Speaker #4: The following is a breakdown of the fourth quarter revenues for our largest service lines. Pressure pumping, $27.6%. Wireline, $24.1%. Down-hole tools, $22.4%. Coil tubing, $9.7%.
David Brown: The following is a breakdown of the Q4 revenues for our largest service lines: pressure pumping, 27.6%; wireline, 24.1%; downhole tools, 22.4%; coiled tubing, 9.7%; cementing, 5.9%; rental tools, 3.4%. Together, these service lines accounted for 93% of our total revenues. As disclosed in this morning's press release, we made the decision to expense wireline cables that were previously being capitalized beginning in the Q4. This was due to a change in our useful lives because of increased activity, and change in work type. The impact is seen primarily through an increase in cost of revenues and a reduction in capital expenditures, but also a modest decrease in depreciation and amortization. Cost of revenues excluding depreciation and amortization was $337 million compared to $335 million in the previous quarter. This increase was primarily related to expensing wireline cables and other materials and supplies expenses related to JOFNX.
The following is a breakdown of the Q4 revenues for our largest service lines: pressure pumping, 27.6%; wireline, 24.1%; downhole tools, 22.4%; coiled tubing, 9.7%; cementing, 5.9%; rental tools, 3.4%. Together, these service lines accounted for 93% of our total revenues. As disclosed in this morning's press release, we made the decision to expense wireline cables that were previously being capitalized beginning in the Q4. This was due to a change in our useful lives because of increased activity, and change in work type.
Speaker #4: Cementing, 5.9%. Rental tools, 3.4%. Together, these service lines accounted for 93% of our total revenues. As disclosed in this morning's press release, we made the decision to expense wireline cables that were previously being capitalized, beginning in the fourth quarter.
Speaker #4: This was due to a change in our useful lives because of increased activity and a change in work type. The impact is seen primarily through an increase in cost of revenues and a reduction in capital expenditures, but also a modest decrease in depreciation and amortization.
The impact is seen primarily through an increase in cost of revenues and a reduction in capital expenditures, but also a modest decrease in depreciation and amortization. Cost of revenues excluding depreciation and amortization was $337 million compared to $335 million in the previous quarter. This increase was primarily related to expensing wireline cables and other materials and supplies expenses related to JOFNX.
Speaker #4: Cost of revenues excluding depreciation and amortization was $337 million compared to $335 million in the previous quarter. This increase was primarily related to expensing wireline cables and other materials and supplies expenses related to job mix SG&A expenses were $48 million up slightly from $45 million.
David Brown: SG&A expenses were $48 million, up slightly from $45 million. As a percent of revenue, SG&A increased 120 basis points to 11.2%, primarily due to employee incentives and higher other related employment costs. The effective tax rate was unusually high during the quarter. The higher rate was primarily due to the liquidation of our company-owned life insurance policies that were part of the previously announced dissolution of the company's non-qualified supplemental retirement income plan, coupled with the non-deductible portion of acquisition-related employment costs. Adjusted diluted EPS was $0.04 in the fourth quarter. Adjustments totaled $0.06 and related to the expense of wireline cables purchased and capitalized from previous quarters, acquisition-related employment costs, and a significant increase in tax expense related to taxable gains on the sale of the company-owned life insurance policies and other investments related to the liquidation of the company's non-qualified supplemental retirement income plan.
SG&A expenses were $48 million, up slightly from $45 million. As a percent of revenue, SG&A increased 120 basis points to 11.2%, primarily due to employee incentives and higher other related employment costs. The effective tax rate was unusually high during the quarter. The higher rate was primarily due to the liquidation of our company-owned life insurance policies that were part of the previously announced dissolution of the company's non-qualified supplemental retirement income plan, coupled with the non-deductible portion of acquisition-related employment costs.
Speaker #4: As a percent of revenue, SG&A increased $120 basis points to $11.2% primarily due to employee incentives and higher other related employment costs. The effect of tax rate was unusually high during the quarter.
Speaker #4: The higher rate was primarily due to the liquidation of our company-owned life insurance policies that were part of the previously announced dissolution of the company's non-qualified supplemental retirement income plan.
Speaker #4: Coupled with the non-deductible portion of acquisition-related employment costs. Adjusted diluted EPS was $0.04 in the fourth quarter. Adjustments totaled $0.06 and related to the expensing of wireline cables purchased and capitalized from previous quarters, acquisition-related employment costs, and a significant increase in tax expense related to taxable gains on the sale of the company-owned life insurance policies and other investments related to liquidation of the company's non-qualified supplemental retirement income plan.
Adjusted diluted EPS was $0.04 in the fourth quarter. Adjustments totaled $0.06 and related to the expense of wireline cables purchased and capitalized from previous quarters, acquisition-related employment costs, and a significant increase in tax expense related to taxable gains on the sale of the company-owned life insurance policies and other investments related to the liquidation of the company's non-qualified supplemental retirement income plan.
Speaker #4: Adjusted EBITDA was $55.1 million, down from $67.8 million, due to broad-based declines across the majority of the businesses. Adjusted EBITDA margin decreased 230 basis points sequentially to 12.9%.
David Brown: Adjusted EBITDA was $55.1 million, down from $67.8 million, due to the broad-based declines across the majority of the businesses. Adjusted EBITDA margin decreased 230 basis points sequentially to 12.9%. The adjustments made to EBITDA were made to make future periods more comparable. Operating cash flow to date was $201.3 million, and after a CapEx of $148.4 million, free cash flow was $52.9 million. The change to expensing wireline cables reduced both operating cash flow and CapEx, but resulted in no change to free cash flow. At quarter end, we had approximately $210 million in cash, a $50 million financing note payable, and no borrowings from our $100 million revolving credit facility. Payment of dividends totaled $35.1 million year to date through Q4 2025. During the quarter, we paid $8.8 million in dividends.
Adjusted EBITDA was $55.1 million, down from $67.8 million, due to the broad-based declines across the majority of the businesses. Adjusted EBITDA margin decreased 230 basis points sequentially to 12.9%. The adjustments made to EBITDA were made to make future periods more comparable. Operating cash flow to date was $201.3 million, and after a CapEx of $148.4 million, free cash flow was $52.9 million. The change to expensing wireline cables reduced both operating cash flow and CapEx, but resulted in no change to free cash flow.
Speaker #4: The adjustments made to EBITDA were made to make future periods more comparable. Operating cash flow to date was $201.3 million and after CapEx of $148.4 million, free cash flow was $52.9 million.
Speaker #4: The change to expensing wireline cables reduced both operating cash flow and CapEx, but resulted in no change to free cash flow. At quarter-end, we had approximately $210 million in cash, a $50 million seller finance note payable, and no borrowings from our $100 million revolving credit facility.
At quarter end, we had approximately $210 million in cash, a $50 million financing note payable, and no borrowings from our $100 million revolving credit facility. Payment of dividends totaled $35.1 million year to date through Q4 2025. During the quarter, we paid $8.8 million in dividends.
Speaker #4: Payment of dividends totaled $35.1 million year to date through Q4 '25. During the quarter, we paid $8.8 million in dividends. Full year 2025 capital expenditures were $148 million primarily related to maintenance CapEx and inclusive of opportunistic asset purchases as well as our ERP and other IT system upgrades.
David Brown: Full year 2025 capital expenditures were $148 million, primarily related to Maintenance Capex and inclusive of opportunistic asset purchases, as well as our ERP and other IT system upgrades. Capital expenditures were $12 million lower due to wireline cables being expensed rather than capitalized in Q4. Additionally, we saw approximately $15 million in anticipated capital expenditures delayed into 2026. Due to this delay, we expect 2026 capital expenditures in the range of $150 to 180 million. We'll adjust our spend based on activity levels. I'll now turn it back over to Ben for some closing remarks. Thank you, Mike. 2025 was a challenging year with year-end oil prices reaching its lowest levels since COVID. While we have seen recent improvement in oil and natural gas prices, we need further increases to disperse significant customer activity levels.
Full year 2025 capital expenditures were $148 million, primarily related to Maintenance Capex and inclusive of opportunistic asset purchases, as well as our ERP and other IT system upgrades. Capital expenditures were $12 million lower due to wireline cables being expensed rather than capitalized in Q4. Additionally, we saw approximately $15 million in anticipated capital expenditures delayed into 2026. Due to this delay, we expect 2026 capital expenditures in the range of $150 to 180 million. We'll adjust our spend based on activity levels. I'll now turn it back over to Ben for some closing remarks.
Speaker #4: Capital expenditures were $12 million lower due to wireline cables being expensed rather than capitalized in the fourth quarter. Additionally, we saw approximately $15 million in anticipated capital expenditures delayed into 2026.
Speaker #4: Due to this delay, we expect 2026 capital expenditures in the range of $150 to $180 million. We'll adjust our spend based on activity levels.
Speaker #4: I'll now turn it back over to Ben for some closing remarks.
Ben Palmer: Thank you, Mike. 2025 was a challenging year with year-end oil prices reaching its lowest levels since COVID. While we have seen recent improvement in oil and natural gas prices, we need further increases to disperse significant customer activity levels.
Speaker #1: Thank you, Mike. 2025 was a challenging year, with year-end oil prices reaching their lowest level since COVID. While we have seen recent improvement in oil and natural gas prices, we need further increases to spur significant customer activity levels.
Speaker #1: Our management teams have experienced many cycles over the years, and we will continue to focus on costs, returns, and maintaining financial flexibility. This flexibility allows us to take advantage of opportunities that arise, and to pursue growth opportunities.
David Brown: Our management teams have experienced many cycles over the years, and we will continue to focus on costs, returns, and maintaining financial flexibility. This flexibility allows us to take advantage of opportunities that arise and to pursue growth opportunities through selective investment for organic growth, investment in new technologies, and M&A within our existing markets and the broader energy sector. I want to thank all of our employees who put in tremendous work throughout high levels of service and value to our customers. Thank you for joining us this morning, and at this time, we're happy to address any questions you might have. At this time, in order to ask a question, press star, then the number one on your telephone keypad. And your first question comes from the line of Don Crist with Johnson Rice. Please go ahead. Good morning, guys. Hopefully, y'all are doing well this morning.
Our management teams have experienced many cycles over the years, and we will continue to focus on costs, returns, and maintaining financial flexibility. This flexibility allows us to take advantage of opportunities that arise and to pursue growth opportunities through selective investment for organic growth, investment in new technologies, and M&A within our existing markets and the broader energy sector. I want to thank all of our employees who put in tremendous work throughout high levels of service and value to our customers. Thank you for joining us this morning, and at this time, we're happy to address any questions you might have.
Speaker #1: Through selective investment for organic growth, investment in new technologies, and M&A within our existing markets in the broader energy sector. I want to thank all of our employees who put in tremendous work throughout, providing high levels of service and value to our customers.
Speaker #1: Thank you for joining us this morning and at this time we're happy to address any questions you might
Speaker #1: Have. At this time, in order
Operator: At this time, in order to ask a question, press star, then the number one on your telephone keypad. And your first question comes from the line of Don Crist with Johnson Rice. Please go ahead.
Speaker #2: To ask a question, press star, then the number one on your telephone keypad. And your first question comes from the line of Don Christ with Johnson Rice.
Speaker #2: Please go
Speaker #2: ahead.
Don Crist: Good morning, guys. Hopefully, y'all are doing well this morning.
Speaker #3: Good morning, guys.
Speaker #3: Hopefully, y'all are doing well this morning. My first question, and Ben, I don't want to pin you down to any kind of guidance for the first quarter, but given the weather impacts for the first, call it, two weeks of the year, do you think it kind of shakes out similar to the fourth quarter directionally?
David Brown: Hanging in there. My first question, and Ben, I don't want to pin you down to any kind of guidance for Q1, but given the weather impacts for the first, call it, two weeks of the year, do you think it kind of shakes out similar to the Q4 directionally? And again, I'm not looking for specific numbers here. To be honest with you, Don, it's a great question. We're still trying to analyze the impact. We do have; we're quite geographically diversified, but we are concentrated in the Permian and in the MidCon, Oklahoma, and both of those areas were hit pretty hard. So reasonable question. Understand why you're asking, but we don't know yet. But certainly, it's not insignificant, put it that way. Right. And I understand. It's hard to quantify given we still got a lot of winter left.
Hanging in there. My first question, and Ben, I don't want to pin you down to any kind of guidance for Q1, but given the weather impacts for the first, call it, two weeks of the year, do you think it kind of shakes out similar to the Q4 directionally? And again, I'm not looking for specific numbers here.
Speaker #3: And again, I'm not looking for specific numbers here.
Ben Palmer: To be honest with you, Don, it's a great question. We're still trying to analyze the impact. We do have; we're quite geographically diversified, but we are concentrated in the Permian and in the MidCon, Oklahoma, and both of those areas were hit pretty hard. So reasonable question. Understand why you're asking, but we don't know yet. But certainly, it's not insignificant, put it that way.
Speaker #1: I'll be honest with you, Don, it's a great question. We're still trying to analyze the impact. We are quite geographically diversified, but we are concentrated in the Permian and in the Vidcon.
Speaker #1: Oklahoma and both of those areas were hit pretty hard. So, reasonable question. Understand why you're asking, but we don't know yet. But certainly, it's not insignificant.
Speaker #1: Put it that way.
Don Crist: Right. And I understand. It's hard to quantify given we still got a lot of winter left.
Speaker #3: Right, I understand. It's hard to quantify given we've still got a lot of winter left. So my second question: we've seen a lot of your competitors have challenges outside of pressure pumping and the other business lines that you all operate in, and a lot of that equipment starts to move overseas to the Middle East and other places for unconventional-type development.
David Brown: So, my second question would be, we've seen a lot of your competitors have challenges outside of pressure pumping and the other business lines that y'all operate in, and a lot of that equipment start to move overseas to the Middle East and other places for unconventional-type development. Are you seeing that other business lines, through tubing, coil, and wireline, start to normalize, or some of your competitors go away and have a little bit less competition there as that equipment moves overseas? Maybe a little bit of that. I don't know that it's a tremendous amount yet, but certainly, every little bit can help. We've heard of some competitors in some of those other service lines that are obviously reorganizing or being sold, absorbed by other competitors.
So, my second question would be, we've seen a lot of your competitors have challenges outside of pressure pumping and the other business lines that y'all operate in, and a lot of that equipment start to move overseas to the Middle East and other places for unconventional-type development. Are you seeing that other business lines, through tubing, coil, and wireline, start to normalize, or some of your competitors go away and have a little bit less competition there as that equipment moves overseas?
Speaker #3: Are you seeing that other business lines—through tubing, coil, and wirelines—are starting to normalize, or are some of your competitors going away and causing a little bit less competition there?
Speaker #3: Is that equipment moves
Speaker #3: Overseas? Maybe a little bit of that.
Ben Palmer: Maybe a little bit of that. I don't know that it's a tremendous amount yet, but certainly, every little bit can help. We've heard of some competitors in some of those other service lines that are obviously reorganizing or being sold, absorbed by other competitors.
Speaker #1: I don't know that it's a tremendous amount yet. But certainly, every little bit can help. There have been—we've heard of some competitors and some of those other service lines that are obviously reorganizing or being sold, absorbed by other competitors.
Speaker #1: So perhaps that is an indication that the market stress is getting to some of the less well-capitalized companies, and hopefully, that'll inure to our benefit.
David Brown: So perhaps that is an indication that the market stress is getting to some of the less well-capitalized companies, and hopefully, that'll inure to our benefit as we move forward. Okay. And just one last question for me. Obviously, you've been very prudent with the balance sheet over the years and selectively done M&A, but you've got a pretty large cash hoard right now. Any indication that we could see some stock buybacks, or are you going to just keep that for M&A in the near term? We're always evaluating the various uses of our capital, and buybacks are certainly one of those choices. And we'll just have to see. Again, reasonable question. I wouldn't see us necessarily in the near term doing anything dramatically different, but that's in the tool chest, and we're looking at it. I appreciate it. I'll get back in queue. Thanks. Thank you, Don.
So perhaps that is an indication that the market stress is getting to some of the less well-capitalized companies, and hopefully, that'll inure to our benefit as we move forward.
Speaker #1: If we move forward.
Don Crist: Okay. And just one last question for me. Obviously, you've been very prudent with the balance sheet over the years and selectively done M&A, but you've got a pretty large cash hoard right now. Any indication that we could see some stock buybacks, or are you going to just keep that for M&A in the near term?
Speaker #3: Okay, and just one last question from me. Obviously, you've been very prudent with the balance sheet over the years and have selectively done M&A, but you've got a pretty large cash hoard right now.
Speaker #3: Any indication that we could see some stock buybacks or are you going to just keep that for M&A in the near
Speaker #3: term?
Ben Palmer: We're always evaluating the various uses of our capital, and buybacks are certainly one of those choices. And we'll just have to see. Again, reasonable question. I wouldn't see us necessarily in the near term doing anything dramatically different, but that's in the tool chest, and we're looking at it.
Speaker #1: We're
Speaker #1: always evaluating the various uses of our capital. And buybacks are certainly one of those choices. And we'll just have to, again, reasonable question. I wouldn't see us necessarily in the near term doing anything dramatically different.
Speaker #1: But that's in the tool chest, and we're looking at it.
Don Crist: I appreciate it. I'll get back in queue. Thanks.
Speaker #3: I appreciate it. I'll get back in queue. Thanks.
Ben Palmer: Thank you, Don.
Speaker #1: Thank you,
Speaker #1: Donningston, your next question comes from—
David Brown: Here's Don Einstein. Your next question comes from the line of John Daniel with Daniel Energy Partners. Please go ahead. Hey, guys. Thanks for including me. Morning, John. You mentioned that the fleet was idled in the. Is there anything adjusted? Ben, I'm kind of having a hard time, Ben. Can you hear me okay? I'm kind of having a little bit of difficulty. Yeah. Cut out. How about now? How about now? That's better. Much better. Much better. All right. Sorry. Just driving to Midland. My question is, with the fleet that was idled in October - I think you said October, at least in the Q4 - is there anything today which would suggest that you think that fleet comes back this year?
Mike Schmit: Here's Don Einstein.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of John Daniel with Daniel Energy Partners. Please go ahead.
Speaker #2: the line of John Daniel with Daniel Energy Partners. Please go
Speaker #2: ahead. Hey, guys.
John Daniel: Hey, guys. Thanks for including me.
Speaker #4: Thanks for including
Speaker #4: me. Morning, John. Morning, Pete. You mentioned that the week was idling before.
Ben Palmer: Morning, John.
John Daniel: You mentioned that the fleet was idled in the. Is there anything adjusted? Ben, I'm kind of having a hard time, Ben. Can you hear me okay?
Speaker #4: Is there anything? No, I have— Can you hear me okay?
Speaker #1: not. Kind of have not. I have a little bit of
Ben Palmer: I'm kind of having a little bit of difficulty.
Speaker #1: difficulty. Yeah, cut out.
Mike Schmit: Yeah. Cut out.
John Daniel: How about now? How about now?
Speaker #4: How about now?
Speaker #4: How about now? That's better. Much better. Much better. All right. Sorry. Just driving to Midland. My question is, with the fleet that was idled in October—I think you said October, at least in the fourth quarter—is there anything today which would suggest that you think that fleet comes back this year?
Ben Palmer: That's better.
Mike Schmit: Much better. Much better.
John Daniel: All right. Sorry. Just driving to Midland. My question is, with the fleet that was idled in October - I think you said October, at least in the Q4 - is there anything today which would suggest that you think that fleet comes back this year?
Speaker #4: And would the reactivation— is it a function of price, or would it be a function of if you had a sufficient amount of work, even at current pricing?
David Brown: And with the reactivation, is it a function of price, or would it be a function of if you had a sufficient amount of work, even at current pricing? Just how do you think about that? It's a good question. I would have to I mean, we're always looking and evaluating opportunities. I would say the probability is we would need to be really comfortable that it's incrementally better pricing. We're not looking for the same pricing at the prior activity levels, right? And as we've always talked over the years, some of it given I mean, we do have some customers that we do have nice, steady programs with. So it's always a combination of our confidence in how steady the activity can be at a certain pricing and so forth. So I think we're not in a panic to try to put that fleet back to work.
And with the reactivation, is it a function of price, or would it be a function of if you had a sufficient amount of work, even at current pricing? Just how do you think about that?
Speaker #4: Just how do you think about that?
Ben Palmer: It's a good question. I would have to I mean, we're always looking and evaluating opportunities. I would say the probability is we would need to be really comfortable that it's incrementally better pricing. We're not looking for the same pricing at the prior activity levels, right? And as we've always talked over the years, some of it given I mean, we do have some customers that we do have nice, steady programs with. So it's always a combination of our confidence in how steady the activity can be at a certain pricing and so forth. So I think we're not in a panic to try to put that fleet back to work.
Speaker #1: It's a good question. I would have to say, I mean, we're always looking and evaluating opportunities where, I would say, the probability is we would need to be really comfortable that it's incrementally better pricing.
Speaker #1: We're not looking for the same pricing at the prior activity levels, right? And as we've always talked over the years, some of it—given, I mean, we do have some customers that we do have nice steady programs with.
Speaker #1: So, it's always a combination of our confidence in how steady the activity can be at a certain pricing, and so forth. So, I think we're not in a panic to try to put that fleet back to work.
Speaker #1: We want to make sure we're comfortable that it's going to be generating probably better cash flow than we've recently been experiencing, not just from that fleet, but just overall.
David Brown: We want to make sure we're comfortable that it's going to be generating probably better cash flow than we've recently been experiencing, not just from that fleet, but just overall. We would want it to present a pretty high probability that we would have an incremental benefit from bringing it back into service. Okay. Fair enough. The second question is about M&A. Obviously, you guys have the balance sheet to prosecute deals should you wish to. When you step back and think about just the market, you've got some of your peers that are chasing power. Others will be more focused on international. It would seem that the universe of realistic buyers of traditional land equipment is kind of diminishing. I don't know if that's. I think that's a reasonably fair statement. Would you agree with that? And does it argue you to be very careful?
We want to make sure we're comfortable that it's going to be generating probably better cash flow than we've recently been experiencing, not just from that fleet, but just overall. We would want it to present a pretty high probability that we would have an incremental benefit from bringing it back into service.
Speaker #1: We would want it to present a pretty high probability that we would have an incremental benefit from bringing it back into service.
John Daniel: Okay. Fair enough. The second question is about M&A. Obviously, you guys have the balance sheet to prosecute deals should you wish to. When you step back and think about just the market, you've got some of your peers that are chasing power. Others will be more focused on international. It would seem that the universe of realistic buyers of traditional land equipment is kind of diminishing. I don't know if that's. I think that's a reasonably fair statement. Would you agree with that? And does it argue you to be very careful?
Speaker #4: Okay, fair enough. The second question is about M&A. Obviously, you guys have the balance sheet to prosecute deals should you wish to. When you step back and think about the market, you've got some of your peers that are chasing power, others who will be more focused on international.
Speaker #4: It would seem that the universe of realistic buyers of traditional land equipment is kind of diminishing. I don't know if that's—I think that's a reasonably fair statement.
Speaker #4: Would you agree with that? And does it argue you'd be very careful? I mean, just take your time. There's no rush to do deals.
David Brown: I mean, just take your time. There's no rush to do deals if there's limited buyers. Just if you could kind of bloviate on that. I think that's a good way to set it up. Yeah. I'm not knowledgeable of the entire market, but yes, I don't think there's a whole lot of competition out there for people seeking to buy traditional oilfield services companies. But there are some good companies out there that could be ones that would either add to some of our existing service lines. It could be a really good strategic fit, but all of it depending on, of course, trajectory of their business, the price, and all of those sorts of things. So yeah, we're not in panic. We traditionally don't lean into highly competitive bidding situations.
I mean, just take your time. There's no rush to do deals if there's limited buyers. Just if you could kind of bloviate on that.
Speaker #4: If there's limited buyers, just if you could kind of belove on that.
Speaker #1: I think that's a good way to set it up. Yeah, there I'm not a knowledgeable of the entire market, but yes, I don't think there's a whole lot of competition out there for people seeking to buy traditional oil field services companies, but there are some good companies out there that could be ones that would either add to some of our existing service lines.
Ben Palmer: I think that's a good way to set it up. Yeah. I'm not knowledgeable of the entire market, but yes, I don't think there's a whole lot of competition out there for people seeking to buy traditional oilfield services companies. But there are some good companies out there that could be ones that would either add to some of our existing service lines. It could be a really good strategic fit, but all of it depending on, of course, trajectory of their business, the price, and all of those sorts of things. So yeah, we're not in panic. We traditionally don't lean into highly competitive bidding situations.
Speaker #1: It could be a really good strategic fit. But all of it depends upon, of course, the trajectory of their business and the price, and all of those sorts of things.
Speaker #1: So yeah, we're not in panic. We traditionally don't lend lean into highly competitive bidding situations and to the entire point, there's probably not going to be situations where there's multiple bidders aggressively going after a particular target.
David Brown: And to the entire point, there's probably not going to be situations where there's multiple bidders aggressively going after a particular target. So I think that's a nice position to be in, that we can be patient. We do have the balance sheet, not only the capital capacity but the cash. It gives us a lot of flexibility. And so OFS is something we're looking at. But we, too, want to open up the aperture of what's the possible. We've been doing some things that are on the edges of other parts of energy, like some of the gas storage work. We don't have any yet that's of a significant amount, but we like that diversification. And so we're opening up the aperture to look at even more broadly than we may have in the past. Okay. Well, thank you for including me today.
And to the entire point, there's probably not going to be situations where there's multiple bidders aggressively going after a particular target. So I think that's a nice position to be in, that we can be patient. We do have the balance sheet, not only the capital capacity but the cash. It gives us a lot of flexibility. And so OFS is something we're looking at. But we, too, want to open up the aperture of what's the possible. We've been doing some things that are on the edges of other parts of energy, like some of the gas storage work. We don't have any yet that's of a significant amount, but we like that diversification. And so we're opening up the aperture to look at even more broadly than we may have in the past.
Speaker #1: So I think that's a nice position to be in that we can be patient. We do have the balance sheet. Not only the capital capacity, but the cash gives us a lot of flexibility in and so OFS is something we're looking at, but we too want to be we want to open up the aperture of what's the possible.
Speaker #1: We've been doing some things that are on the edges of other parts of energy like some of the gas storage work. We don't have any yet that's of a significant amount, but we like that diversification.
Speaker #1: And so, we're opening up the aperture to look even more broadly than we may have in the past.
John Daniel: Okay. Well, thank you for including me today.
Speaker #4: Okay. Well, thank you for including me.
Speaker #4: today. Well, thank
David Brown: Well, thank you, John. Drive safely. Yes, sir. Again, if you would like to ask a question, press star one. And your next question comes from the line of Derek Podhaizer with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead. Hey. Good morning, guys. Maybe we could just start with some additional insight. Morning. Just some additional insight and maybe some history into the updated wireline accounting treatment. Maybe just why now and not when the deal occurred last year. I think you mentioned a change in work type with the wireline. Just trying to understand better, really, what happened that caused this change. Sure. Derek, thanks for the question. Previously, they had an audit, and previously, they were capitalizing wireline. But business had started changing about the time that we had the acquisition with more Simul Frac, Trimul Frac, and just working more.
Ben Palmer: Well, thank you, John. Drive safely.
Speaker #1: Drive safely.
John Daniel: Yes, sir.
Speaker #4: Yes, you, John.
Speaker #4: sir.
Operator: Again, if you would like to ask a question, press star one. And your next question comes from the line of Derek Podhaizer with Piper Sandler. Please go ahead.
Speaker #2: Again, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one. And your next question comes from the line of Derek Podheiser with Piper Sandler.
Speaker #2: Please go ahead.
Derek Podhaizer: Hey. Good morning, guys. Maybe we could just start with some additional insight. Morning. Just some additional insight and maybe some history into the updated wireline accounting treatment. Maybe just why now and not when the deal occurred last year. I think you mentioned a change in work type with the wireline. Just trying to understand better, really, what happened that caused this change.
Speaker #5: Hey, good morning, guys. Maybe we could just start with some additional insight. Morning. Just some additional insight and maybe some history into the updated wireline accounting treatment.
Speaker #5: Maybe just why now and not when the deal occurred last year? I think you mentioned a change in work type with the wireline. Just trying to understand better really what happened that caused this change.
Mike Schmit: Sure. Derek, thanks for the question. Previously, they had an audit, and previously, they were capitalizing wireline. But business had started changing about the time that we had the acquisition with more Simul Frac, Trimul Frac, and just working more.
Speaker #1: Sure. Derek, thanks for the question. Previously, they had an audit, and previously, they were capitalizing wireline, but their business had started changing about the time that we had the acquisition.
Speaker #1: It's more simultaneous and just working more. So it's something we kept our eyes on and that we wanted to make sure we were comfortable with by the end of the year.
David Brown: So it's something we kept our eyes on and that we wanted to make sure we were comfortable with by the end of the year. We were only depreciating them over 18 months previously, which was kind of where they historically had been. But we knew the type of work was changing, and so we were just monitoring over the last couple of quarters how much spend we were having on wireline cables. And we were more comfortable that it's closer to under a year. And so rather than letting it build over time and be aggressive, we thought the right thing to do was, within our purchase accounting window, we had enough evidence at this point before year-end to go ahead and make the switch. And we focus a lot on free cash flow here, and it doesn't have a ton of it, it has zero free cash flow impact.
So it's something we kept our eyes on and that we wanted to make sure we were comfortable with by the end of the year. We were only depreciating them over 18 months previously, which was kind of where they historically had been. But we knew the type of work was changing, and so we were just monitoring over the last couple of quarters how much spend we were having on wireline cables.
Speaker #1: We were only depreciating them over 18 months previously, which was kind of where they historically had been. But we knew the type of work was changing, and so we were just monitoring over the last couple of quarters how much spend we were having on wireline cables, and we were more comfortable that it's closer to under a year.
And we were more comfortable that it's closer to under a year. And so rather than letting it build over time and be aggressive, we thought the right thing to do was, within our purchase accounting window, we had enough evidence at this point before year-end to go ahead and make the switch. And we focus a lot on free cash flow here, and it doesn't have a ton of it, it has zero free cash flow impact.
Speaker #1: And so rather than letting it build over time and be aggressive, we thought the right thing to do was within our purchase accounting window, we had enough evidence to, at this point, before year-end, to go ahead and make the switch.
Speaker #1: And we focused a lot on free cash flow here and it doesn't have a ton of it has zero free cash flow impact. So for us, we just thought it was the correct accounting treatment as we looked at kind of how quickly we were using up the cables, which had really changed and started changing as the
David Brown: So for us, we just thought it was the correct accounting treatment as we looked at kind of how quickly we were using up the cables, which had really changed and started changing as the work changed. Derek, as you know, too, I mean, we and the pumping industry went through this with fluid ends a number of years ago. So it's not dissimilar, excuse me, dissimilar in that regard. So we appreciate the question. Right. Right. Yeah. No, that was very helpful. I appreciate the color. And yeah, it did remind me of the fluid ends issue years ago. I guess maybe a question on Thru Tubing Solutions. You talked about international regions and your footprint there.
So for us, we just thought it was the correct accounting treatment as we looked at kind of how quickly we were using up the cables, which had really changed and started changing as the work changed.
Speaker #1: work changed. Derek, as you
Ben Palmer: Derek, as you know, too, I mean, we and the pumping industry went through this with fluid ends a number of years ago. So it's not dissimilar, excuse me, dissimilar in that regard. So we appreciate the question.
Speaker #6: know too, I mean, we and the pumping industry went through this with fluidence a number of years ago. So it's not as simple or, excuse me, dissimilar in that regard.
Speaker #6: So we appreciate the question.
Derek Podhaizer: Right. Right. Yeah. No, that was very helpful. I appreciate the color. And yeah, it did remind me of the fluid ends issue years ago. I guess maybe a question on Thru Tubing Solutions. You talked about international regions and your footprint there. Maybe just can you expand on that, maybe to educate us on the location and the type of technology you're deploying there and how you really see that business growing over the next couple of years?
Speaker #5: Right,
Speaker #5: Right. Yeah, no, that was very helpful. I appreciate the color. And yeah, it did remind me of the fluid and issue years ago. I guess maybe a question on through tubing solutions.
Speaker #5: You talked about international regions and your footprint there. Maybe can you expand on that? Maybe to educate us on the location and the type of technology you're deploying there and how you really see that business growing over the next couple of years?
David Brown: Maybe just can you expand on that, maybe to educate us on the location and the type of technology you're deploying there and how you really see that business growing over the next couple of years? Yeah. Well, with respect to the color on international, we have pared back significantly our international business from where we were a number of years ago. Thru Tubing Solutions has the largest presence internationally of our service lines. The Middle East is where we have the most activity, and that's the area that experienced the weakness that we were referring to. In Canada. It's the area where we've done some work historically and have sent work up in Canada consistently. Got it.
Ben Palmer: Yeah. Well, with respect to the color on international, we have pared back significantly our international business from where we were a number of years ago. Thru Tubing Solutions has the largest presence internationally of our service lines. The Middle East is where we have the most activity, and that's the area that experienced the weakness that we were referring to. In Canada. It's the area where we've done some work historically and have sent work up in Canada consistently.
Speaker #1: Yeah. Well, with respect to the color on international, we have pared back significantly our international business from where we were a number of years ago.
Speaker #1: Through tubing solutions, has the largest presence internationally of our service lines. The Middle East is where we have the most activity, and that's the area that experienced the weakness that we
Speaker #1: Through tubing solutions, has the largest presence internationally of our service lines. The Middle East is where we have the most activity, and that's the area that experienced the weakness that we
Speaker #1: were. In Canada. Got
Speaker #5: It is the area where we've done
Speaker #3: Some work historically, and have similar workup in Canada.
Derek Podhaizer: Got it. Is there any renewed focus as far as the Middle East and the build-out of unconventionals and Thru Tubing being a potential growth trajectory for you, maybe reigniting just given the unconventional build-out in the Middle East, or is that not the correct read-through?
Speaker #5: Got it. Is there any renewed focus as far as the Middle East and the build-out of unconventionals, and is through tubing a potential growth trajectory for you?
David Brown: Is there any renewed focus as far as the Middle East and the build-out of unconventionals and Thru Tubing being a potential growth trajectory for you, maybe reigniting just given the unconventional build-out in the Middle East, or is that not the correct read-through? It's possible. We've kind of several years ago kind of changed our business model there. So we have less of a "physical presence." We're making the tools and the technology available. So yes, I mean, I think our tools certainly can perform very well in those environments like they do here in the States. So I would expect and hope that we would have some improvement there. But like I said, we're not directly there ourselves. So we're working through other groups and making our tools available to them. So we'll have to see. Hopefully, they can be successful, and we can increase some revenues there.
Speaker #5: Maybe reigniting, just given the unconventional build-out of the Middle East, or is that not the correct—
Speaker #5: read-through? It's
Ben Palmer: It's possible. We've kind of several years ago kind of changed our business model there. So we have less of a "physical presence." We're making the tools and the technology available. So yes, I mean, I think our tools certainly can perform very well in those environments like they do here in the States. So I would expect and hope that we would have some improvement there. But like I said, we're not directly there ourselves. So we're working through other groups and making our tools available to them. So we'll have to see. Hopefully, they can be successful, and we can increase some revenues there.
Speaker #1: possible. We've kind of several years ago kind of changed our business model there. So we have less of a, quote-unquote, "physical presence." We're making the tools and the technology available.
Speaker #1: So yes, I mean, I think our tools certainly can perform very well in those environments, like they do here in the States. So, I would expect and hope that we would have some improvement there.
Speaker #1: But like I said, we're not directly there ourselves. So we're working through other groups and making our tools available to them. So we'll have to see.
Speaker #1: Hopefully, they can be successful, and we can increase some revenues there. So, it's not anything that we're counting on in any of our current forecasts, but we hope it does come to fruition.
David Brown: So it's not anything that we're counting on in any of our current forecasts, but we hope it does come to fruition. Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe just the third question, a quick state of the union on the current spot market and pressure pumping. How's the competition? I mean, it's always been oversupplied, but you've stacked a fleet, and I'm sure some of your competitors have stacked a fleet. I'm not sure if any of the smaller mom-and-pop privates have gone away just given where pricing and activity has gone to. Obviously, we have accelerating attrition as well. So maybe could you help us further understand the state of the market today? Do you see competition reducing, and any sort of secular fundamental improvement that we could potentially see in the spot market as we work through the year?
So it's not anything that we're counting on in any of our current forecasts, but we hope it does come to fruition.
Derek Podhaizer: Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe just the third question, a quick state of the union on the current spot market and pressure pumping. How's the competition? I mean, it's always been oversupplied, but you've stacked a fleet, and I'm sure some of your competitors have stacked a fleet. I'm not sure if any of the smaller mom-and-pop privates have gone away just given where pricing and activity has gone to. Obviously, we have accelerating attrition as well. So maybe could you help us further understand the state of the market today? Do you see competition reducing, and any sort of secular fundamental improvement that we could potentially see in the spot market as we work through the year?
Speaker #5: Got it. Okay. That's helpful. And then maybe just the third question. A quick State of the Union on the current spot market and pressure pumping.
Speaker #5: How's the competition? It's always been oversupplied, but you've stacked a fleet, and I'm sure some of your competitors have stacked fleet. I'm not sure if any of the smaller mom-and-pop privates have gone away.
Speaker #5: Just given where pricing and activity has gone to, obviously, we have accelerating attrition as well. So maybe could you help us further understand the state of the market today?
Speaker #5: Do you see competition reducing? Any sort of secular, fundamental improvement that we could potentially see in the spot market as we work through the year?
Speaker #1: We're not seeing anything dramatic yet at this point. Of course, there's some of the consolidation that was occurring over the last couple of years as a result of selling off some of the properties and things like that.
David Brown: We're not seeing anything dramatic yet at this point. Of course, there's some of the consolidation that was occurring over the last couple of years as a result in selling off some of the properties and things like that. And that brings in some of the customers that are more spotty-looking, if you will. So it could create some opportunities, but it's really more the same. I think discipline. We're trying to be disciplined, again, with our pricing. Again, one of the reasons we idle the fleet; we've trended a little bit ahead of headcount. So we're trying to do what we can to make the best of the situation. We're certainly continuing to maintain the business, but the returns just they need to improve. And we're hopeful that competitors there are some mom-and-pops out there that are difficult to compete with.
Ben Palmer: We're not seeing anything dramatic yet at this point. Of course, there's some of the consolidation that was occurring over the last couple of years as a result in selling off some of the properties and things like that. And that brings in some of the customers that are more spotty-looking, if you will. So it could create some opportunities, but it's really more the same. I think discipline. We're trying to be disciplined, again, with our pricing.
Speaker #1: And that brings in some of the customers that are more spotty-looking, if you will. So it could create some opportunities, but it's really more of the same.
Speaker #1: I think discipline—we're trying to be disciplined again with our pricing. Again, one of the reasons we idled the fleet. We've trimmed a little bit of headcount.
Again, one of the reasons we idle the fleet; we've trended a little bit ahead of headcount. So we're trying to do what we can to make the best of the situation. We're certainly continuing to maintain the business, but the returns just they need to improve. And we're hopeful that competitors there are some mom-and-pops out there that are difficult to compete with.
Speaker #1: So we're trying to do what we can to make the best of the situation. We are certainly continuing to maintain the business, but the returns just need to improve.
Speaker #1: And we're hopeful that competitors, there are some mom-and-pops out there that are difficult to compete with, but we continue to support pressure pumping, but we're focused on some of the other service lines that are less capital-intensive and we'll see where all that takes
Speaker #1: And we're hopeful that competitors, there are some mom-and-pops out there that are difficult to compete with, but we continue to support pressure pumping, but we're focused on some of the other service lines that are less capital-intensive and we'll see where all that takes us.
David Brown: But we continue to support pressure pumping, but we're focused on some of the other service lines that are less capital-intensive. And we'll see where all that takes us. Right. Right. All right. Great. Appreciate the color. I'll turn it back. Thank you. Appreciate it. Your next question comes from the line of Chuck Minervino with Susquehanna. Please go ahead. Hi. Good morning. Morning, Chuck. Morning. Morning. Was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about that 2026 Capex. Sounds like you had some deferred spend from 2025, but then also, I guess, the wireline cable now comes out of the Capex. Maybe they were offsetting each other, but if they are, you still got to have Capex up in 2026.
But we continue to support pressure pumping, but we're focused on some of the other service lines that are less capital-intensive. And we'll see where all that takes us.
Derek Podhaizer: Right. Right. All right. Great. Appreciate the color. I'll turn it back.
Speaker #5: Right, right. All right, great. Appreciate the color. I'll turn it back.
Ben Palmer: Thank you. Appreciate it.
Speaker #1: Thank you. Appreciate it.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Chuck Minervino with Susquehanna. Please go ahead.
Speaker #7: Your next question comes from the line of Chuck Minervino with Susquehanna. Please go ahead.
Speaker #7: ahead. Hi, good
Chuck Minervino: Hi. Good morning.
Ben Palmer: Morning, Chuck.
Speaker #1: Morning, Chuck. morning.
Mike Schmit: Morning.
Chuck Minervino: Morning. Was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about that 2026 Capex. Sounds like you had some deferred spend from 2025, but then also, I guess, the wireline cable now comes out of the Capex. Maybe they were offsetting each other, but if they are, you still got to have Capex up in 2026. So was just curious if you can kind of touch on that a little bit, and if there's maybe room for that to come down if you're looking to generate a little bit more free cash flow during the year.
Speaker #8: Morning. I was just wondering if you could talk a little bit about that 2026 CapEx? Sounds like you had some deferred spend from 2025, but then also I guess the wireline cable now comes out of the CapEx.
Speaker #8: Maybe they were offsetting each other, but if they are, you still kind of have CapEx up in 2026. So we're just curious if you can kind of touch on that a little bit, and if there's maybe room for that to come down.
David Brown: So was just curious if you can kind of touch on that a little bit, and if there's maybe room for that to come down if you're looking to generate a little bit more free cash flow during the year. Well, I think we've put out there I think it's a "conservative number," and that it's maybe larger. We could have said something smaller, but we're trying to be realistic with respect to our near-term and longer-term plans. I mean, we've always certainly, if things move dramatically in one way or the other, CapEx oftentimes long lead times on that. So sometimes you can't immediately cut it off. But we scrutinize our CapEx very, very carefully. Certainly, there's opportunities to reduce it if conditions warrant. The way we run the business, our management teams, they look at their plans. They come up with their CapEx plans.
Speaker #8: If you're looking to generate a little bit more free cash flow during the
Speaker #8: year. Well,
Ben Palmer: Well, I think we've put out there I think it's a "conservative number," and that it's maybe larger. We could have said something smaller, but we're trying to be realistic with respect to our near-term and longer-term plans. I mean, we've always certainly, if things move dramatically in one way or the other, CapEx oftentimes long lead times on that. So sometimes you can't immediately cut it off. But we scrutinize our CapEx very, very carefully. Certainly, there's opportunities to reduce it if conditions warrant. The way we run the business, our management teams, they look at their plans. They come up with their CapEx plans.
Speaker #1: I think we've put out there—I think it's a, quote-unquote, 'conservative number'—and that it's maybe larger. We could have said something smaller, but we're trying to be realistic with respect to our near-term and longer-term plans.
Speaker #1: I mean, we've always certainly if things move dramatically in one way or the other, CapEx there's oftentimes long lead times on that. So sometimes you can't immediately cut it off, but we scrutinize our CapEx very, very carefully.
Speaker #1: Certainly, there's opportunities to reduce it if conditions warrant. The way we run the business, our management teams, they look at their plans, they come up with their CapEx plans, but they know that, in terms of unapproved or undelivered equipment, it's always subject to us, together with them, making a decision that we're not going to spend that money.
David Brown: But they know that in terms of unapproved or undelivered equipment, it's always subject to us together with them making a decision that we're not going to spend that money. So it's not committed. If it's in the budget, that doesn't mean it can be spent. So we scrutinize it very carefully. So there is an opportunity for that number to come down. And likewise, there could be opportunities for it to go up slightly, right, if an opportunity comes along that we can pursue. We've got the balance sheet to be able to do that, so.
But they know that in terms of unapproved or undelivered equipment, it's always subject to us together with them making a decision that we're not going to spend that money. So it's not committed. If it's in the budget, that doesn't mean it can be spent. So we scrutinize it very carefully. So there is an opportunity for that number to come down. And likewise, there could be opportunities for it to go up slightly, right, if an opportunity comes along that we can pursue. We've got the balance sheet to be able to do that, so.
Speaker #1: So, it's not committed if it's in the budget. That doesn't mean it can be spent. So we scrutinize it very carefully. So, there is an opportunity for that number to come down.
Speaker #1: And likewise, there could be opportunities for it to go up slightly, right? If an opportunity comes along that we can pursue, we've got the balance sheet to be able to do that.
Speaker #1: So, but yeah, everybody understands that at the end of the day, the free cash flow is where the rubber meets the road, and everybody buys into that and understands, and is trying to do what's prudent to be able to support our businesses and selectively grow them.
David Brown: But yeah, everybody understands that at the end of the day, the free cash flow is where the rubber meets the road, and everybody buys into that and understands and is trying to do what's prudent to be able to support our businesses and selectively grow them, but obviously be very mindful, particular, and selective about CapEx investments. We'll continue to be that. Got it. And then just one other in support services, I know not a huge piece of the overall revenue pie, but the rental tool revenue down pretty sharply, it sounds like, late in the year. I know there's always seasonality late in the year. Was that particularly kind of sharper than you've seen historically? And it was just kind of curious if there was any reason for it or any more color you could provide. Yeah. It is. It was more acute.
But yeah, everybody understands that at the end of the day, the free cash flow is where the rubber meets the road, and everybody buys into that and understands and is trying to do what's prudent to be able to support our businesses and selectively grow them, but obviously be very mindful, particular, and selective about CapEx investments. We'll continue to be that.
Speaker #1: But obviously, be very, very mindful and particular—and selective—about CapEx investments. We'll continue to be that.
Chuck Minervino: Got it. And then just one other in support services, I know not a huge piece of the overall revenue pie, but the rental tool revenue down pretty sharply, it sounds like, late in the year. I know there's always seasonality late in the year. Was that particularly kind of sharper than you've seen historically? And it was just kind of curious if there was any reason for it or any more color you could provide.
Speaker #5: Got it. And then just one other in support services. I know it's not a huge piece of the overall revenue pie, but the rental tool revenue is down pretty sharply.
Speaker #5: It sounds like late in the year. I know there's always seasonality late in the year. Was that particularly kind of sharper than you've seen historically?
Speaker #5: And it was just kind of curious if there was any reason for it or any more color you could
Speaker #5: provide.
Ben Palmer: Yeah. It is. It was more acute. That business, a nice little business that's been really, really steady. So I don't want to say it was a surprise. I mean, this kind of thing can always happen in the fourth quarter. It's kind of, you can have one or two customers that slow down for whatever reason. And I think it, too, was impacted in the Rockies, similar to Thru Tubing Solutions that we talked about. So it's kind of one or two customer-specific that impacted that. So it's really just some of it was not permanent delays. I mean, it's just obviously, they're a rental tool company and drilling. So this was some delays on drilling some wells. But we believe it's only delays. It was just delaying it slightly. So it's not a lost opportunity or anything like that. It was just a delay.
Speaker #1: Yeah,
Speaker #1: it is it was more acute. That business, a nice little business that's been really, really steady. So I don't want to say it was a surprise.
David Brown: That business, a nice little business that's been really, really steady. So I don't want to say it was a surprise. I mean, this kind of thing can always happen in the fourth quarter. It's kind of, you can have one or two customers that slow down for whatever reason. And I think it, too, was impacted in the Rockies, similar to Thru Tubing Solutions that we talked about. So it's kind of one or two customer-specific that impacted that. So it's really just some of it was not permanent delays. I mean, it's just obviously, they're a rental tool company and drilling. So this was some delays on drilling some wells. But we believe it's only delays. It was just delaying it slightly. So it's not a lost opportunity or anything like that. It was just a delay.
Speaker #1: I mean, this kind of thing can always happen in the fourth quarter. It's kind of—you can have one or two customers that slow down for whatever reason.
Speaker #1: And I think it too was impacted in the Rockies similar to through tubing solutions that we talked about. So it's kind of one or two customers specific that impacted that.
Speaker #1: So it's really just some of it was not permanent delays. I mean, it's just obviously there are rental tool drilling. So this was some delays on drilling some wells, but we believe it's only delays.
Speaker #1: It was just delaying it slightly, so it's not a lost opportunity or anything like that—it was just a delay. The other call-out on that is they have a really great third quarter.
David Brown: The other callout on that is they had a really great third quarter. So I mean, they had a pretty tough comparable. Gotcha. That's a good point. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you. Appreciate it. There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Ben Palmer for closing remarks. Thank you very much, operator. We appreciate everybody calling in and listening, and look forward to talking to some of you perhaps later today. And hope you have a good rest of the day. Take care. Today's call will be available for replay on www.rpc.net within 2 hours following the completion of the call. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.
Mike Schmit: The other callout on that is they had a really great third quarter. So I mean, they had a pretty tough comparable.
Speaker #1: So, I mean, they had a pretty tough comparable. It's—
Chuck Minervino: Gotcha.
Ben Palmer: That's a good point.
Speaker #5: Gotcha.
Chuck Minervino: Okay. Thank you very much.
Speaker #5: Okay. a good point. very
Speaker #5: much. Thank you.
Ben Palmer: Thank you. Appreciate it.
Speaker #1: Appreciate it.
Operator: There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Ben Palmer for closing remarks.
Speaker #7: There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Ben Palmer for closing remarks.
Ben Palmer: Thank you very much, operator. We appreciate everybody calling in and listening, and look forward to talking to some of you perhaps later today. And hope you have a good rest of the day. Take care.
Speaker #1: Thank you very much, operator. We appreciate everybody calling in and listening. And look forward to talking to some of you perhaps later today and hope you have a good rest of the day.
Speaker #1: Take
Operator: Today's call will be available for replay on www.rpc.net within 2 hours following the completion of the call. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.
Speaker #7: Today's call will be available for replay on www.rpc.net within two hours following the completion of the call. Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call.
