Q4 2025 Adeia Inc Earnings Call
Speaker #2: Following the presentation, the call will be open for questions. I would now like to turn the call over to Chris Chaney, Vice President of Investor Relations for Adeia.
Speaker #2: Chris, please go ahead.
Speaker #3: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us as we share with you details of our quarterly financial results. With me on the call today are Paul Davis, our President and CEO, and Keith Jones, our CFO.
Chris Chaney: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us as we share with you details of our quarterly financial results. With me on the call today are Paul Davis, our President and CEO, and Keith Jones, our CFO. Paul will share with you some general observations regarding the quarter, and then Keith will give further details on our financial results and guidance. We will then conclude with a question-and-answer period. In addition to today's earnings release, there is an earnings presentation which you can access, along with the webcast, in the IR portion of our website. Before turning the call over to Paul, I would like to provide a few reminders. First, today's discussion contains forward-looking statements that are predictions, projections, or other statements about future events, which are based on management's current expectations and beliefs, and therefore are subject to risks, uncertainties, and changes in circumstances.
Chris Chaney: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us as we share with you details of our quarterly financial results. With me on the call today are Paul Davis, our President and CEO, and Keith Jones, our CFO. Paul will share with you some general observations regarding the quarter, and then Keith will give further details on our financial results and guidance. We will then conclude with a question-and-answer period. In addition to today's earnings release, there is an earnings presentation which you can access, along with the webcast, in the IR portion of our website. Before turning the call over to Paul, I would like to provide a few reminders. First, today's discussion contains forward-looking statements that are predictions, projections, or other statements about future events, which are based on management's current expectations and beliefs, and therefore are subject to risks, uncertainties, and changes in circumstances.
Speaker #3: Paul will share with you some general observations regarding the quarter, and then Keith will give further details on our financial results and guidance. We will then conclude with a question-and-answer period.
Speaker #3: In addition to today's earnings release, there is an earnings presentation which you can access along with the webcast in the IR portion of our website.
Speaker #3: Before turning the call over to Paul, I would like to provide a few reminders. First, today's discussion contains forward-looking statements that are predictions, projections, or other statements about future events, which are based on management's current expectations and beliefs.
Speaker #3: And therefore, subject to risks, uncertainties, and changes in circumstances. For more information on the risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual results to differ materially from what we discussed today, please refer to the Risk Factors section in our SEC filings.
Chris Chaney: For more information on the risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual results to differ materially from what we discuss today, please refer to the Risk Factors section in our SEC filings, including our annual report on Form 10-K and our quarterly report on Form 10-Q. Please note that the company does not intend to update or alter these forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances arising after this call. To enhance investors' understanding of our ongoing economic performance, we will discuss non-GAAP information during this call. We use non-GAAP financial measures internally to evaluate and manage our operations. We have therefore chosen to provide this information to enable you to perform comparisons of our operating results as we do internally.
Chris Chaney: For more information on the risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual results to differ materially from what we discuss today, please refer to the Risk Factors section in our SEC filings, including our annual report on Form 10-K and our quarterly report on Form 10-Q. Please note that the company does not intend to update or alter these forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances arising after this call. To enhance investors' understanding of our ongoing economic performance, we will discuss non-GAAP information during this call. We use non-GAAP financial measures internally to evaluate and manage our operations. We have therefore chosen to provide this information to enable you to perform comparisons of our operating results as we do internally.
Speaker #3: Including our annual report on Form 10-K, and our quarterly report on Form 10-Q. Please note that the company does not intend to update or alter these forward-looking statements to reflect events or circumstances arising after this call.
Speaker #3: To enhance investors' understanding of our ongoing economic performance, we will discuss non-GAAP information during this call. We use non-GAAP financial measures internally to evaluate and manage our operations.
Speaker #3: We have therefore chosen to provide this information to enable you to perform comparisons of our operating results as we do internally. We have provided reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures in the earnings release, the earnings presentation, and on the investor relations section of our website.
Chris Chaney: We have provided reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures in the earnings release, the earnings presentation, and on the Investor Relations section of our website. A recording of this conference call will be made available on the Investor Relations website at adeia.com. Now, I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Paul Davis.
Chris Chaney: We have provided reconciliations of these non-GAAP measures to the most directly comparable GAAP measures in the earnings release, the earnings presentation, and on the Investor Relations section of our website. A recording of this conference call will be made available on the Investor Relations website at adeia.com. Now, I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Paul Davis.
Speaker #3: A recording of this conference call will be made available on the investor relations website at adeia.com. Now, I'd like to turn the call over to our CEO, Paul Davis.
Speaker #2: Thank you, Chris, and thank you, everyone, for joining us today. I'm pleased to be here to share our results for the fourth quarter and full year 2025.
Paul Davis: Thank you, Chris, and thank you everyone for joining us today. I'm pleased to be here to share our results for Q4 and full year 2025. We delivered an outstanding year, both financially and operationally. Our record annual revenue exceeded the high end of our guidance range, and we delivered excellent operating income and EBITDA, also exceeding the high end of our guidance. Our record revenue for both the quarter and the year was driven by our dedicated focus on key growth areas, including OTT. I'm proud of our team's commitment to maintaining relationships and finding ways to resolve litigation matters efficiently, resulting in outstanding outcomes for our stakeholders. As we mentioned during the prior call, we were pursuing multiple opportunities that would lead to a strong start for 2026.
Paul Davis: Thank you, Chris, and thank you everyone for joining us today. I'm pleased to be here to share our results for Q4 and full year 2025. We delivered an outstanding year, both financially and operationally. Our record annual revenue exceeded the high end of our guidance range, and we delivered excellent operating income and EBITDA, also exceeding the high end of our guidance. Our record revenue for both the quarter and the year was driven by our dedicated focus on key growth areas, including OTT. I'm proud of our team's commitment to maintaining relationships and finding ways to resolve litigation matters efficiently, resulting in outstanding outcomes for our stakeholders. As we mentioned during the prior call, we were pursuing multiple opportunities that would lead to a strong start for 2026.
Speaker #2: We delivered an outstanding year, both financially and operationally. Our record annual revenue exceeded the high end of our guidance range, and we delivered excellent operating income and EBITDA, also exceeding the high end of our guidance.
Speaker #2: Our record revenue for both the quarter and the year was driven by our dedicated focus on key growth areas, including OTT. I'm proud of our team's commitment to maintaining relationships and finding ways to resolve litigation matters efficiently.
Speaker #2: Resulting in outstanding outcomes for our stakeholders. As we mentioned during the prior call, we were pursuing multiple opportunities that would lead to a strong start for 2026.
Speaker #2: With this deal momentum, we have already executed several new agreements this year. Most notably, a multi-year license agreement with Microsoft, a leading technology company.
Paul Davis: With this deal momentum, we have already executed several new agreements this year, most notably a multi-year license agreement with Microsoft, a leading technology company. This agreement covers our media portfolio with broad applicability to Microsoft's business, including their consumer electronics and social media products and services. Let me discuss our Q4 results in a little more detail. In the Q4, we delivered revenue of $183 million, highlighted by 9 deals, including 8 in media and 1 in semiconductors, with 4 new customers. Our efforts to diversify our revenue base continue to show results, with non-Pay TV recurring revenue growing 30% in the quarter year-over-year. We are pleased to have signed Disney, our biggest new customer in the quarter. With Amazon and Disney, we now have licensed 2 of the largest OTT providers in the world.
Paul Davis: With this deal momentum, we have already executed several new agreements this year, most notably a multi-year license agreement with Microsoft, a leading technology company. This agreement covers our media portfolio with broad applicability to Microsoft's business, including their consumer electronics and social media products and services. Let me discuss our Q4 results in a little more detail. In the Q4, we delivered revenue of $183 million, highlighted by 9 deals, including 8 in media and 1 in semiconductors, with 4 new customers. Our efforts to diversify our revenue base continue to show results, with non-Pay TV recurring revenue growing 30% in the quarter year-over-year. We are pleased to have signed Disney, our biggest new customer in the quarter. With Amazon and Disney, we now have licensed 2 of the largest OTT providers in the world.
Speaker #2: This agreement covers our media portfolio, with broad applicability to Microsoft's business, including their consumer electronics and social media products and services. Let me discuss our fourth quarter results in a little more detail.
Speaker #2: In the fourth quarter, we delivered revenue of $183 million, highlighted by nine deals, including eight in media, and one in semiconductors. With four new customers, our efforts to diversify our revenue base continue to show results.
Speaker #2: With non-PTV recurring revenue growing 30% in the quarter year over year. We are pleased to have signed Disney, our biggest new customer in the quarter, with Amazon and Disney we now have licensed two of the largest OTT providers in the world.
Speaker #2: After an extended period of engagement with Disney, we took formal steps to protect our intellectual property while continuing constructive dialogue. Through the course of the litigation, which lasted approximately one year, we believe we are able to demonstrate to Disney the applicability of our portfolio to their services in both parties reached a comprehensive agreement resolving all disputes.
Paul Davis: After an extended period of engagement with Disney, we took formal steps to protect our intellectual property while continuing constructive dialogue. Through the course of the litigation, which lasted approximately one year, we believe we are able to demonstrate to Disney the applicability of our portfolio to their services, and both parties reached a comprehensive agreement resolving all disputes. Concluding this matter efficiently reinforces the strength and broad applicability of our IP portfolio and provides additional momentum as we pursue further OTT opportunities. Another new customer in the Q4 was Major League Baseball, the second major US professional sports league to sign a multi-year agreement for access to our media portfolio. We were also pleased to sign a multi-year renewal with Vodafone, reaffirming our relevance and strength in international Pay TV markets.
Paul Davis: After an extended period of engagement with Disney, we took formal steps to protect our intellectual property while continuing constructive dialogue. Through the course of the litigation, which lasted approximately one year, we believe we are able to demonstrate to Disney the applicability of our portfolio to their services, and both parties reached a comprehensive agreement resolving all disputes. Concluding this matter efficiently reinforces the strength and broad applicability of our IP portfolio and provides additional momentum as we pursue further OTT opportunities. Another new customer in the Q4 was Major League Baseball, the second major US professional sports league to sign a multi-year agreement for access to our media portfolio. We were also pleased to sign a multi-year renewal with Vodafone, reaffirming our relevance and strength in international Pay TV markets.
Speaker #2: Concluding this matter efficiently reinforces the strength and broad applicability of our IP portfolio and provides additional momentum as we pursue further OTT opportunities. Another new customer in the fourth quarter was Major League Baseball.
Speaker #2: The second major U.S. professional sports league to sign a multi-year agreement for access to our media portfolio. We were also pleased to sign a multi-year renewal with Vodafone, reaffirming our relevance and strength in international PTV markets.
Speaker #2: In addition, during the quarter, we signed a new OTT customer in South Korea, a new consumer electronics customer in Japan, a domestic consumer electronics renewal, and two PTV renewals.
Paul Davis: In addition, during the quarter, we signed a new OTT customer in South Korea, a new consumer electronics customer in Japan, a domestic consumer electronics renewal, and two Pay TV renewals, further demonstrating the breadth of our licensing platform. In semiconductors, we signed a prototype development agreement with an existing customer following an initial license agreement with them last year. The customer recognized early on the value of our hybrid bonding technology for high-performance imaging and detection systems. Now I'd like to provide a brief review of our accomplishments for the year. Turning to the full year, 2025 was a record year for Adeia. Revenue reached $443 million, exceeding the upper end of our revised guidance, with operating income of $276 million and adjusted EBITDA of $278 million, both above the high end of our guidance.
Paul Davis: In addition, during the quarter, we signed a new OTT customer in South Korea, a new consumer electronics customer in Japan, a domestic consumer electronics renewal, and two Pay TV renewals, further demonstrating the breadth of our licensing platform. In semiconductors, we signed a prototype development agreement with an existing customer following an initial license agreement with them last year. The customer recognized early on the value of our hybrid bonding technology for high-performance imaging and detection systems. Now I'd like to provide a brief review of our accomplishments for the year. Turning to the full year, 2025 was a record year for Adeia. Revenue reached $443 million, exceeding the upper end of our revised guidance, with operating income of $276 million and adjusted EBITDA of $278 million, both above the high end of our guidance.
Speaker #2: Further demonstrating the breadth of our licensing platform. In semiconductors, we signed a prototype development agreement with an existing customer following an initial license agreement with them last year.
Speaker #2: The customer recognized early on the value of our hybrid bonding technology for high performance imaging and detection systems. Now I'd like to provide a brief review of our accomplishments for the year.
Speaker #2: Turning to the full year, 2025 was a record year for Adeia. Revenue reached $443 million. Exceeding the upper end of our revised guidance, with operating income of $276 million and adjusted EBITDA of $278 million.
Speaker #2: Both above the high end of our guidance. Our results were driven by the execution of 26 license agreements across a diverse customer base spanning OTT, semiconductors, consumer electronics, PTV, and e-commerce verticals.
Paul Davis: Our results were driven by the execution of 26 license agreements across a diverse customer base, spanning OTT, semiconductors, consumer electronics, Pay TV, and e-commerce verticals. Importantly, we added a record 12 new customers, significantly expanding and diversifying our licensing base. Momentum was strong across both core and growth verticals, including 9 Pay TV deals, 7 in OTT, and 4 semiconductor deals. New customers such as Disney, STMicroelectronics, Major League Baseball, and several e-commerce platforms contributed meaningfully to growth. Renewals with customers, including Altice USA, Vodafone, and others, continue to support the stability and predictability of our recurring revenue stream. Balanced capital allocation remained a priority in 2025. During the year, we reduced debt by $60 million, returned capital through dividends and share repurchases, and acquired six tuck-in patent portfolios, all while growing our cash balance. Our semiconductor innovation also received industry recognition.
Paul Davis: Our results were driven by the execution of 26 license agreements across a diverse customer base, spanning OTT, semiconductors, consumer electronics, Pay TV, and e-commerce verticals. Importantly, we added a record 12 new customers, significantly expanding and diversifying our licensing base. Momentum was strong across both core and growth verticals, including 9 Pay TV deals, 7 in OTT, and 4 semiconductor deals. New customers such as Disney, STMicroelectronics, Major League Baseball, and several e-commerce platforms contributed meaningfully to growth. Renewals with customers, including Altice USA, Vodafone, and others, continue to support the stability and predictability of our recurring revenue stream. Balanced capital allocation remained a priority in 2025. During the year, we reduced debt by $60 million, returned capital through dividends and share repurchases, and acquired six tuck-in patent portfolios, all while growing our cash balance. Our semiconductor innovation also received industry recognition.
Speaker #2: Importantly, we added a record $12 new customers, significantly expanding and diversifying our licensing base. Momentum was strong across both core and growth verticals, including nine PTV deals, seven in OTT, and four semiconductor deals.
Speaker #2: New customers such as Disney, STMicro, Major League Baseball, and several e-commerce platforms contributed meaningfully to growth. Renewals with customers including Altice USA, Vodafone, and others continue to support the stability and predictability of our recurring revenue stream.
Speaker #2: Balanced capital allocation remained a priority in 2025. During the year, we reduced debt by $60 million. Returned capital through dividends and share repurchases, and acquired six Tucking patent portfolios.
Speaker #2: All while growing our cash balance. Our semiconductor innovation also received industry recognition. Our hybrid bonding technology was awarded Best of Show for Most Innovative Technology at the Future of Memory and Storage Conference.
Paul Davis: Our hybrid bonding technology was awarded Best of Show for Most Innovative Technology at the Future of Memory and Storage conference. In addition, RapidCool received the Global Brands Award for Technology Excellence. As demand for high-performance computing driven by AI continues to grow, we believe effective thermal solutions will be increasingly critical and remain focused on advancing RapidCool with partners and potential customers. Several opportunities we previously discussed have closed or are expected to close early in 2026, supporting our confidence in our annual revenue guidance. The opportunities in our pipeline continue to expand across both media and semiconductors. As we have previously mentioned, we are expecting Pay TV as a percentage of revenue to decline below the historical average of approximately 50% to 60%. We are now anticipating Pay TV will represent approximately 35% to 40% of our forecasted revenue this year.
Paul Davis: Our hybrid bonding technology was awarded Best of Show for Most Innovative Technology at the Future of Memory and Storage conference. In addition, RapidCool received the Global Brands Award for Technology Excellence. As demand for high-performance computing driven by AI continues to grow, we believe effective thermal solutions will be increasingly critical and remain focused on advancing RapidCool with partners and potential customers. Several opportunities we previously discussed have closed or are expected to close early in 2026, supporting our confidence in our annual revenue guidance. The opportunities in our pipeline continue to expand across both media and semiconductors. As we have previously mentioned, we are expecting Pay TV as a percentage of revenue to decline below the historical average of approximately 50% to 60%. We are now anticipating Pay TV will represent approximately 35% to 40% of our forecasted revenue this year.
Speaker #2: In addition, RapidCool received the Global Brands Award for technology excellence. As demand for high-performance computing driven by AI continues to grow, we believe effective thermal solutions will be increasingly critical.
Speaker #2: And remain focused on advancing rapid cool with partners and potential customers. Several opportunities we previously discussed have closed or are expected to close early in 2026.
Speaker #2: Supporting our confidence in our annual revenue guidance, the opportunities in our pipeline continue to expand across both media and semiconductors. As we have previously mentioned, we are expecting PTV as a percentage of revenue to decline below the historical average of approximately 50% to 60%.
Speaker #2: We are now anticipating PTV will represent approximately 35% to 40% of our forecasted revenue this year. We are closely monitoring and taking direct action to address challenges within our PTV licensing program.
Paul Davis: We are closely monitoring and taking direct action to challenges within our Pay TV licensing program. Specifically, DirecTV has filed certain litigation, which ultimately challenges the need for a new license agreement. We believe this is a clear violation of the agreements we had in place, and we have, in turn, filed a breach of contract suit against them. As we have demonstrated in recent disputes, including Altice USA and Disney, we are confident we will ultimately be able to successfully resolve this matter. As a reminder, the vast majority of US Pay TV operators are licensed to our media portfolio, several of which agreements extend into the next decade. We continue to diversify our customer base. One of our primary strategic priorities over the last few years has been to grow our revenue in non-Pay TV verticals such as OTT, semiconductors, consumer electronics, social media, and adjacent media markets.
Paul Davis: We are closely monitoring and taking direct action to challenges within our Pay TV licensing program. Specifically, DirecTV has filed certain litigation, which ultimately challenges the need for a new license agreement. We believe this is a clear violation of the agreements we had in place, and we have, in turn, filed a breach of contract suit against them. As we have demonstrated in recent disputes, including Altice USA and Disney, we are confident we will ultimately be able to successfully resolve this matter. As a reminder, the vast majority of US Pay TV operators are licensed to our media portfolio, several of which agreements extend into the next decade. We continue to diversify our customer base. One of our primary strategic priorities over the last few years has been to grow our revenue in non-Pay TV verticals such as OTT, semiconductors, consumer electronics, social media, and adjacent media markets.
Speaker #2: Specifically, DirecTV has filed certain litigation which ultimately challenges the need for a new license agreement. We believe this is a clear violation of the agreements we had in place, and we have, in turn, filed a breach of contract suit against them.
Speaker #2: As we have demonstrated in recent disputes, including Altice USA and Disney, we are confident we will ultimately be able to successfully resolve this matter.
Speaker #2: As a reminder, the vast majority of U.S. PTV operators are licensed to our media portfolio, several of which agreements extend into the next decade.
Speaker #2: We continue to diversify our customer base. One of our primary strategic priorities over the last few years has been to grow our revenue in non-PTV verticals such as OTT, semiconductors, consumer electronics, social media, and adjacent media markets.
Speaker #2: By adding new customers in these verticals, we have made tremendous progress. In 2025, we grew our non-PTV recurring revenue by more than 20%. And since 2022, we have grown it by more than 60%.
Paul Davis: By adding new customers in these verticals, we have made tremendous progress. In 2025, we grew our non-Pay TV recurring revenue by more than 20%, since 2022, we have grown it by more than 60%. In semiconductors, we see the adoption of hybrid bonding broadening, with new product releases anticipated in 2026. Hybrid bonding enables further advancement of Moore's Law in an environment where there is a growing need for innovations that support rapidly evolving AI ecosystems and related infrastructure. While AMD is already in production with their hybrid bonded products, other logic leaders such as Intel, Broadcom, and Marvell, have publicly disclosed product roadmaps that will utilize hybrid bonding. Hybrid bonding is also becoming critical in memory, especially in High-Bandwidth Memory and NAND, which are increasingly needed to process today's large language models and other AI applications.
Paul Davis: By adding new customers in these verticals, we have made tremendous progress. In 2025, we grew our non-Pay TV recurring revenue by more than 20%, since 2022, we have grown it by more than 60%. In semiconductors, we see the adoption of hybrid bonding broadening, with new product releases anticipated in 2026. Hybrid bonding enables further advancement of Moore's Law in an environment where there is a growing need for innovations that support rapidly evolving AI ecosystems and related infrastructure. While AMD is already in production with their hybrid bonded products, other logic leaders such as Intel, Broadcom, and Marvell, have publicly disclosed product roadmaps that will utilize hybrid bonding. Hybrid bonding is also becoming critical in memory, especially in High-Bandwidth Memory and NAND, which are increasingly needed to process today's large language models and other AI applications.
Speaker #2: In semiconductors, we see the adoption of hybrid bonding broadening with new product releases anticipated in 2026. Hybrid bonding enables further advancement of Moore's Law in an environment where there is a growing need for innovations that support rapidly evolving AI ecosystems and related infrastructure.
Speaker #2: While AMD is already in production with their hybrid bonded products, other logic leaders such as Intel, Broadcom, and Marvell have publicly disclosed product roadmaps that will utilize hybrid bonding.
Speaker #2: Hybrid bonding is also becoming critical in memory, especially in high bandwidth memory and NAND. Which are increasingly needed to process today's large language models and other AI applications.
Speaker #2: Micron, Samsung, and SK Hynix are all making significant multibillion-dollar investments in advanced packaging capacity that support their hybrid bonding strategies for HBM and NAND.
Paul Davis: Micron, Samsung, and SK hynix are all making significant multi-billion dollar investments in advanced packaging capacity that support their hybrid bonding strategies for HBM and NAND. Semiconductor equipment toolmakers involved in the hybrid bonding supply chain have further confirmed the rising adoption within their tool orders, recently accelerating. With AI driving significant transitions in semiconductor architectures and the need for better cooling technologies only increasing, our hybrid bonding and RapidCool technologies position us well to capture meaningful opportunities in the next several years. Our patent portfolio underpins our future licensing activity. In 2025, we grew our portfolio by 13%, marking our third consecutive year of double-digit growth, driven by strategic R&D and targeted M&A. While portfolio expansion remains a priority, we expect growth to moderate over time.
Paul Davis: Micron, Samsung, and SK hynix are all making significant multi-billion dollar investments in advanced packaging capacity that support their hybrid bonding strategies for HBM and NAND. Semiconductor equipment toolmakers involved in the hybrid bonding supply chain have further confirmed the rising adoption within their tool orders, recently accelerating. With AI driving significant transitions in semiconductor architectures and the need for better cooling technologies only increasing, our hybrid bonding and RapidCool technologies position us well to capture meaningful opportunities in the next several years. Our patent portfolio underpins our future licensing activity. In 2025, we grew our portfolio by 13%, marking our third consecutive year of double-digit growth, driven by strategic R&D and targeted M&A. While portfolio expansion remains a priority, we expect growth to moderate over time.
Speaker #2: Semiconductor equipment toolmakers involved in the hybrid bonding supply chain have further confirmed the rising adoption within their tool orders recently accelerating. With AI driving significant transitions in semiconductor architectures, and the need for better cooling technologies only increasing, our hybrid bonding and rapid cool technologies position us well to capture meaningful opportunities in the next several years.
Speaker #2: Our patent portfolio underpins our future licensing activity. In 2025, we grew our portfolio by 13%, marking our third consecutive year of double digit growth, driven by strategic R&D and targeted M&A.
Speaker #2: While portfolio expansion remains a priority, we expect growth to moderate over time. I'm pleased once again we were recognized by Heritage and Heritage as one of the most prolific inventors in the U.S.
Paul Davis: I'm pleased once again, we were recognized by Harrity & Harrity as one of the most prolific inventors in the US, with our ranking rising compared to last year and ahead of industry leaders such as AMD, Broadcom, Verizon, and AT&T. Amongst these industry titans, I'm extremely proud that we had the 66 most new US patents issued in 2025. A remarkable achievement for a company of our size and a testament to our commitment to innovation. We achieved a lot in 2025. We strengthened our predictable revenue stream while expanding into key growth markets, positioning Adeia for continued long-term value creation. We also recently enhanced our leadership structure to strengthen execution towards the company's long-term strategy and growth priorities.
Paul Davis: I'm pleased once again, we were recognized by Harrity & Harrity as one of the most prolific inventors in the US, with our ranking rising compared to last year and ahead of industry leaders such as AMD, Broadcom, Verizon, and AT&T. Amongst these industry titans, I'm extremely proud that we had the 66 most new US patents issued in 2025. A remarkable achievement for a company of our size and a testament to our commitment to innovation. We achieved a lot in 2025. We strengthened our predictable revenue stream while expanding into key growth markets, positioning Adeia for continued long-term value creation. We also recently enhanced our leadership structure to strengthen execution towards the company's long-term strategy and growth priorities.
Speaker #2: With our ranking rising compared to last year, and ahead of industry leaders such as AMD, Broadcom, Verizon, and AT&T. Amongst these industry titans, I'm extremely proud that we had the 66 most new U.S.
Speaker #2: patents issued in 2025. A remarkable achievement for a company of our size and a testament to our commitment to innovation. We achieved a lot in 2025.
Speaker #2: We strengthened our predictable revenue stream while expanding into key growth markets. Positioning Audia for continued long-term value creation. We also recently enhanced our leadership structure to strengthen execution towards the company's long-term strategy and growth priorities.
Speaker #2: Specifically, we welcome back Craig Mitchell, to the newly created role of Chief Semiconductor Officer. Where he will lead the company's semiconductor technology and R&D organization and will be responsible for shaping Audia's semiconductor vision.
Paul Davis: Specifically, we welcome back Craig Mitchell to the newly created role of Chief Semiconductor Officer, where he will lead the company's semiconductor technology and R&D organization and will be responsible for shaping Adeia's semiconductor vision. In addition, Dr. Mark Kokes was appointed Chief Revenue Officer. Mark will oversee our global sales and go-to-market strategy across the organization. Finally, Bill Thomas was appointed to Chief Strategy Officer, a newly created position to oversee our long-term planning, market analysis, and growth initiatives. With this new leadership, I am confident we have the right team and structure to execute on our strategy. We are off to a strong start in 2026, supported by recent agreements and a growing pipeline. We remain focused on achieving our long-term goal of $500 million in annual licensing revenue. Now I'll turn the call over to Keith for further details on our financial results.
Paul Davis: Specifically, we welcome back Craig Mitchell to the newly created role of Chief Semiconductor Officer, where he will lead the company's semiconductor technology and R&D organization and will be responsible for shaping Adeia's semiconductor vision. In addition, Dr. Mark Kokes was appointed Chief Revenue Officer. Mark will oversee our global sales and go-to-market strategy across the organization. Finally, Bill Thomas was appointed to Chief Strategy Officer, a newly created position to oversee our long-term planning, market analysis, and growth initiatives. With this new leadership, I am confident we have the right team and structure to execute on our strategy. We are off to a strong start in 2026, supported by recent agreements and a growing pipeline. We remain focused on achieving our long-term goal of $500 million in annual licensing revenue. Now I'll turn the call over to Keith for further details on our financial results.
Speaker #2: In addition, Dr. Mark Cox was appointed Chief Revenue Officer. Mark will oversee our global sales and go-to-market strategy across the organization. Finally, Bill Thomas was appointed Chief Strategy Officer.
Speaker #2: A newly created position to oversee our long-term planning, market analysis, and growth initiatives. With this new leadership, I am confident we have the right team and structure to execute on our strategy.
Speaker #2: We are off to a strong start in 2026, supported by recent agreements and a growing pipeline. We remain focused on achieving our long-term goal of $500 million in annual licensing revenue.
Speaker #2: And now I'll turn the call over to Keith for further details on our financial results. Thank you, Paul. I'm pleased to be speaking with you today to share details of our fourth quarter 2025 financial results.
Keith Jones: Thank you, Paul. I'm pleased to be speaking with you today to share details of our Q4 2025 financial results. During the Q4, we delivered strong financial results with revenue, operating income, and adjusted EBITDA, all exceeding the high end of our guidance. Record revenue of $182.6 million was driven by the execution of 9 deals across a diverse mix of customers, including OTT, Pay TV, consumer electronics, and semiconductor. During the quarter, we signed 4 new license agreements. This includes signing a significant license agreement with Disney, which greatly adds to our presence in the OTT market. Now, I would like to discuss our operating expenses, for which I will be referring to non-GAAP numbers only.
Keith Jones: Thank you, Paul. I'm pleased to be speaking with you today to share details of our Q4 2025 financial results. During the Q4, we delivered strong financial results with revenue, operating income, and adjusted EBITDA, all exceeding the high end of our guidance. Record revenue of $182.6 million was driven by the execution of 9 deals across a diverse mix of customers, including OTT, Pay TV, consumer electronics, and semiconductor. During the quarter, we signed 4 new license agreements. This includes signing a significant license agreement with Disney, which greatly adds to our presence in the OTT market. Now, I would like to discuss our operating expenses, for which I will be referring to non-GAAP numbers only.
Speaker #2: During the fourth quarter, we delivered strong financial results with revenue, operating income, and adjusted EBITDA all exceeding the high end of our guidance. Record revenue of $182.6 million was driven by the execution of nine deals across a diverse mix of customers, including OTT, pay TV, consumer electronics, and semiconductor.
Speaker #2: During the quarter, we signed four new license agreements. This includes signing a significant license agreement with Disney, which greatly adds to our presence in the OTT market.
Speaker #2: Now I'd like to discuss our operating expenses for which I'll be referring to non-GAAP numbers only. During the fourth quarter, operating expenses for 49.2 million dollars.
Keith Jones: During Q4, operating expenses were $49.2 million, an increase of $12.1 million, or 33% from the prior quarter. The increase is primarily due to increased variable compensation as a result of exceeding certain performance targets. Research and development expenses increased $3.1 million, or 21% from the prior quarter. The increase is primarily due to increased variable compensation, as well as increased portfolio development costs. Selling general administrative expenses increased $7.7 million, or 44% from the prior quarter, reflecting increased variable compensation costs. Litigation expense was $6.5 million, an increase of $1.3 million, or 25% compared to the prior quarter, primarily due to higher spending on AMD and Canadian litigation matters.
Keith Jones: During Q4, operating expenses were $49.2 million, an increase of $12.1 million, or 33% from the prior quarter. The increase is primarily due to increased variable compensation as a result of exceeding certain performance targets. Research and development expenses increased $3.1 million, or 21% from the prior quarter. The increase is primarily due to increased variable compensation, as well as increased portfolio development costs. Selling general administrative expenses increased $7.7 million, or 44% from the prior quarter, reflecting increased variable compensation costs. Litigation expense was $6.5 million, an increase of $1.3 million, or 25% compared to the prior quarter, primarily due to higher spending on AMD and Canadian litigation matters.
Speaker #2: An increase of $12.1 million, or 33%, from the prior quarter. The increase is primarily due to increased variable compensation as a result of exceeding certain performance targets.
Speaker #2: Research and development expenses increased $3.1 million, or 21%, from the prior quarter. The increase is primarily due to increased variable compensation as well as increased portfolio development costs.
Speaker #2: Selling journal administrative expenses increased 7.7 million dollars or 44% from the prior quarter. Reflecting increased variable compensation costs. Litigation expense was 6.5 million dollars and increased of 1.3 million dollars or 25% compared to the prior quarter.
Speaker #2: Primarily due to higher spending on AMD and Canadian litigation matters. Interest expense during the fourth quarter was 9.4 million dollars. A decrease of 614,000 dollars.
Keith Jones: Interest expense during Q4 was $9.4 million, a decrease of $614,000, primarily attributable to our continued debt payments and due to lower variable interest rates during the period. Our current effective interest rate, which includes amortization of debt issuance costs, was 7.5%. Other income was $1.7 million and was primarily related to interest earned on our cash and investment portfolio and due to interest income earned on our revenue agreements with long-term billing structures under ASC 606. Our adjusted EBITDA for Q4 was $133.9 million, reflecting an adjusted EBITDA margin of 73%. Depreciation expense for Q4 was $484,000. Our non-GAAP income tax rate remained at 23% for Q4.
Keith Jones: Interest expense during Q4 was $9.4 million, a decrease of $614,000, primarily attributable to our continued debt payments and due to lower variable interest rates during the period. Our current effective interest rate, which includes amortization of debt issuance costs, was 7.5%. Other income was $1.7 million and was primarily related to interest earned on our cash and investment portfolio and due to interest income earned on our revenue agreements with long-term billing structures under ASC 606. Our adjusted EBITDA for Q4 was $133.9 million, reflecting an adjusted EBITDA margin of 73%. Depreciation expense for Q4 was $484,000. Our non-GAAP income tax rate remained at 23% for Q4.
Speaker #2: Primarily attributed to our continued debt payments and due to lower variable interest rates during the period. Our current effective interest rate, which includes amortization of debt issuance costs, was 7.5%.
Speaker #2: Other income was 1.7 million dollars and was primarily related to interest earned on our cash and investment portfolio and due to interest income earned on our revenue agreements with long-term billing structures under ASC 606.
Speaker #2: Our adjusted EBITDA for the fourth quarter was 133.9 million dollars. Reflecting adjusted EBITDA margin of 73%. Depreciation expense for the fourth quarter was 484,000 dollars.
Speaker #2: Our non-GAAP income tax rate remained at 23% for the quarter. Our income tax expense consists primarily of federal and state domestic taxes, as well as Korean withholding taxes.
Keith Jones: Our income tax expense consists primarily of federal and state domestic taxes, as well as Korean withholding taxes. Now for a few details on the balance sheet. We ended the Q4 with $136.7 million in cash, cash equivalents, and marketable securities, and we generated $60 million in cash from operations. As demonstrated by our results, the Q4 has historically been a very strong cash generation period for us. This strong financial performance allowed us to execute on all four pillars of our balanced capital allocation approach while growing our cash balance. This includes paying down our debt, repurchasing shares, paying our dividend, and making two tuck-in acquisitions.
Keith Jones: Our income tax expense consists primarily of federal and state domestic taxes, as well as Korean withholding taxes. Now for a few details on the balance sheet. We ended the Q4 with $136.7 million in cash, cash equivalents, and marketable securities, and we generated $60 million in cash from operations. As demonstrated by our results, the Q4 has historically been a very strong cash generation period for us. This strong financial performance allowed us to execute on all four pillars of our balanced capital allocation approach while growing our cash balance. This includes paying down our debt, repurchasing shares, paying our dividend, and making two tuck-in acquisitions.
Speaker #2: Now, for a few details on the balance sheet. We ended the fourth quarter with $136.7 million in cash, cash equivalents, and marketable securities.
Speaker #2: And we generated 60 million dollars in cash from operations. As demonstrated by our results, the fourth quarter has historically been a very strong cash generation period for us.
Speaker #2: This strong financial performance allowed us to execute on all four pillars of our balanced capital allocation approach while growing our cash balance. This includes paying down our debt, repurchasing shares, paying our dividend, and making two tuck-in acquisitions.
Speaker #2: We made 21.1 million dollars in principal payments on our debt in the fourth quarter. And ended the quarter with a term loan balance of 426.7 million dollars.
Keith Jones: We made $21.1 million in principal payments on our debt in Q4 and ended the quarter with a term loan balance of $426.7 million. In Q4, we repurchased approximately 718,000 shares for $10 million, bringing the remaining amount available for future repurchases to $160 million under our current stock repurchase program. We paid a cash dividend of $0.05 per share of common stock. Our board also approved a payment of another $0.05 per share dividend to be paid on 30 March to shareholders of record as of 16 March. Now I'll go over our guidance for the full year 2026. Our 2026 revenue guidance range is $395 to $435 million.
Keith Jones: We made $21.1 million in principal payments on our debt in Q4 and ended the quarter with a term loan balance of $426.7 million. In Q4, we repurchased approximately 718,000 shares for $10 million, bringing the remaining amount available for future repurchases to $160 million under our current stock repurchase program. We paid a cash dividend of $0.05 per share of common stock. Our board also approved a payment of another $0.05 per share dividend to be paid on 30 March to shareholders of record as of 16 March. Now I'll go over our guidance for the full year 2026. Our 2026 revenue guidance range is $395 to $435 million.
Speaker #2: In the fourth quarter, we repurchased approximately 718,000 shares for $10 million dollars. Bringing the remaining amount available for future repurchases to 160 million dollars under our current stock repurchase program.
Speaker #2: We paid a cash dividend of $0.05 per share of common stock. Our board also approved a payment of another $0.05 per share dividend to be paid on March 30 to shareholders of record as of March 16.
Speaker #2: Now I'll go over our guidance for the full year 2026. Our 2026 revenue guidance range is $395 to $435 million. As we mentioned in our previous call, our sales pipeline was and continues to be very strong.
Keith Jones: As we mentioned in our previous call, our sales pipeline was, and continues to be, very strong. This has manifested not only a strong close to 2025, but serves as a springboard to early success in 2026, which we see propelling us through the remainder of the year with future wins. Overall, we see the first half of the year and the second half of the year being relatively equal in terms of revenue contribution. Operating expenses are expected to be in the range of $184 to $192 million. We anticipate modest single-digit growth for both R&D as well as SG&A expenses as we continue to prioritize investing in our technology and infrastructure in both our media and semiconductor businesses. We anticipate that our litigation expense will increase year-over-year.
Keith Jones: As we mentioned in our previous call, our sales pipeline was, and continues to be, very strong. This has manifested not only a strong close to 2025, but serves as a springboard to early success in 2026, which we see propelling us through the remainder of the year with future wins. Overall, we see the first half of the year and the second half of the year being relatively equal in terms of revenue contribution. Operating expenses are expected to be in the range of $184 to $192 million. We anticipate modest single-digit growth for both R&D as well as SG&A expenses as we continue to prioritize investing in our technology and infrastructure in both our media and semiconductor businesses. We anticipate that our litigation expense will increase year-over-year.
Speaker #2: This has manifested not only a strong close to 2025 but serves as a springboard to early success in 2026 which we see propelling us through the remainder of the year with future wins.
Speaker #2: Overall, we see the first half of the year and the second half of the year being relatively equal in terms of revenue contribution. Operating expenses are expected to be in the range of 184 to 192 million dollars.
Speaker #2: We anticipate modest single-digit growth for both R&D as well as SG&A expenses. As we continue to prioritize investing in our technology and infrastructure, and both our media and semiconductor businesses, we anticipate that our litigation expense will increase year over year.
Speaker #2: Even with recent settlements, our litigation docket remains active, as we pursue additional large licensing opportunities. We expect interest expense to be in the range of $34 to $36 million.
Keith Jones: Even with recent settlements, our litigation docket remains active as we pursue additional large licensing opportunities. We expect interest expense to be in the range of $34 to $36 million. We expect other income to be in a range of $5.5 to $6.5 million. We expect a resulting adjusted EBITDA margin of approximately 55%. We expect the non-GAAP tax rate to be 21% for the full year. We also expect capital expenditures to be approximately $2 million for the full year. I could not be more pleased with our performance in 2025. Our operating results reflect significant records for Adeia for revenue as well as earnings. Our deal momentum and execution have led to a record number of new customers, which are a key catalyst for our future growth as we look to expand our business.
Keith Jones: Even with recent settlements, our litigation docket remains active as we pursue additional large licensing opportunities. We expect interest expense to be in the range of $34 to $36 million. We expect other income to be in a range of $5.5 to $6.5 million. We expect a resulting adjusted EBITDA margin of approximately 55%. We expect the non-GAAP tax rate to be 21% for the full year. We also expect capital expenditures to be approximately $2 million for the full year. I could not be more pleased with our performance in 2025. Our operating results reflect significant records for Adeia for revenue as well as earnings. Our deal momentum and execution have led to a record number of new customers, which are a key catalyst for our future growth as we look to expand our business.
Speaker #2: We expect other income to be in the range of 5.5 to 6.5 million dollars. We expect a resulting adjusted EBITDA margin of approximately 55%.
Speaker #2: We expect the non-GAAP tax rate to be 21% for the full year. We also expect capital expenditures to be approximately $2 million for the full year.
Speaker #2: I could not be more pleased with our performance in 2025. Our operating results reflect significant records for Adeia for revenue as well as earnings.
Speaker #2: Our deal momentum and execution have led to a record number of new customers, which are a key catalyst for our future growth as we look to expand our business.
Speaker #2: We have shown that we have a relevant and sustainable licensing program, which is bolstered by our commitment to investing in our portfolio development. With the momentum that we have generated, I am excited and encouraged by our prospects in 2026 and beyond.
Keith Jones: We have shown that we have a relevant and sustainable licensing program, which is bolstered by our commitment to investing in our portfolio development. With the momentum that we have generated, I'm excited and encouraged by our prospects in 2026 and beyond. I'm incredibly proud of our dedicated employees who have worked tirelessly to accomplish our goals and thankful for their continued belief in our mission. Now I'd like to turn the call back to Paul for a few additional remarks. Paul?
Keith Jones: We have shown that we have a relevant and sustainable licensing program, which is bolstered by our commitment to investing in our portfolio development. With the momentum that we have generated, I'm excited and encouraged by our prospects in 2026 and beyond. I'm incredibly proud of our dedicated employees who have worked tirelessly to accomplish our goals and thankful for their continued belief in our mission. Now I'd like to turn the call back to Paul for a few additional remarks. Paul?
Speaker #2: I'm incredibly proud of our dedicated employees who have worked tirelessly to accomplish our goals, and thankful for their continued belief in our mission. Now, I'd like to turn the call back to Paul for a few additional remarks.
Speaker #2: Paul?
Speaker #1: Thank you, Keith. I'd like to take a moment to congratulate our employees for delivering a record year and setting us up for success. In the future.
Paul Davis: Thank you, Keith. I'd like to take a moment to congratulate our employees for delivering a record year and setting us up for success in the future. I'd also like to note we will be attending the Annual ROTH Conference in March. We look forward to seeing you at this and other upcoming events. I would now like to turn the call over to the operator to begin our question and answer session. Operator?
Paul Davis: Thank you, Keith. I'd like to take a moment to congratulate our employees for delivering a record year and setting us up for success in the future. I'd also like to note we will be attending the Annual ROTH Conference in March. We look forward to seeing you at this and other upcoming events. I would now like to turn the call over to the operator to begin our question and answer session. Operator?
Speaker #1: I'd also like to note we will be attending the Roth Annual Conference in March. We look forward to seeing you at this and other upcoming events.
Speaker #1: I would now like to turn the call over to the operator to begin our question-and-answer session. Operator?
Speaker #3: Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one again.
Operator: Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one again. Please ensure that your phone is not on mute when called upon. Thank you. Your first question comes from Kevin Cassidy with Rosenblatt Securities. Your line is open.
Operator: Thank you. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one again. Please ensure that your phone is not on mute when called upon. Thank you. Your first question comes from Kevin Cassidy with Rosenblatt Securities. Your line is open.
Speaker #3: Please ensure that your phone is not on mute when called upon. Thank you. Your first question comes from Kevin Cassidy with Rosenblatt Securities. Your line is open.
Speaker #4: Yeah, thanks for taking my question. And congratulations on the great year. You know, as we look at the pay TV customers that's going to be down to 35 to 40% of your revenue, you know, a lot more de-risked, do you see that as is that starting to is the subscriber loss slowing or do you think that gets to an asymptote eventually?
Kevin Cassidy: Yeah, thanks for taking my question, and congratulations on the great year. You know, as we look at, at the Pay TV customers, that's going to be down to 35% to 40% of your revenue, you know, a lot more de-risked. Do you see that as-- Is that starting the-- Is the subscriber loss flowing? Do you think that gets to an asymptote eventually? We did have, you know, in Q4, there was Charter, announced an increase in their number of subscribers. I'm just wondering if you see-- what kind of trend you're seeing there.
Kevin Cassidy: Yeah, thanks for taking my question, and congratulations on the great year. You know, as we look at, at the Pay TV customers, that's going to be down to 35% to 40% of your revenue, you know, a lot more de-risked. Do you see that as-- Is that starting the-- Is the subscriber loss flowing? Do you think that gets to an asymptote eventually? We did have, you know, in Q4, there was Charter, announced an increase in their number of subscribers. I'm just wondering if you see-- what kind of trend you're seeing there.
Speaker #4: We did have in the fourth quarter, there was charter announced they increased in their number of subscribers. I'm just wondering if you're seeing what kind of trend you're seeing there.
Speaker #1: Thanks, Kevin. And I appreciate the comments. Yeah, you're spot on in terms of what we're seeing with the likes of charter and seeing an actual increase in their video subscribers.
Paul Davis: Thanks, Kevin, and appreciate the comments. Yeah, you're spot on in terms of what we're seeing with the likes of Charter and seeing an actual increase in their video subscribers. We do see some moderation in the declines as a total percentage, and we expect that to continue. We have built in, you know, subscriber declines into what we forecast, and that's part of that 30% to 45% moving forward. This is why we've been so focused on non-Pay TV recurring revenue.
Paul Davis: Thanks, Kevin, and appreciate the comments. Yeah, you're spot on in terms of what we're seeing with the likes of Charter and seeing an actual increase in their video subscribers. We do see some moderation in the declines as a total percentage, and we expect that to continue. We have built in, you know, subscriber declines into what we forecast, and that's part of that 30% to 45% moving forward. This is why we've been so focused on non-Pay TV recurring revenue.
Speaker #1: We do see some moderation in the declines. As a total percentage, and we expect that to continue but we have built in subscriber declines into what we forecast and that's part of that 30 to 45% moving forward.
Speaker #1: This is why we've been so focused on non-pay TV recurring revenue. While pay TV still remains a very important part of our business, we've intentionally diversified our revenue base since we separated over three years ago and made tremendous success with that.
Paul Davis: While Pay TV still remains a very important part of our business, you know, we've, we've intentionally diversified our revenue base since we separated over three years ago and made tremendous success with that, as you see in our non-recurring non-Pay TV recurring revenue, I should say. We're very pleased with those results and the progress we made, especially around OTT, semiconductors, and adjacent media markets. Yeah, you know, Pay TV continues to be an important market for us, and we've got a number, as I noted in my prepared remarks, that of deals that go out into the next decade. You know, our customers in Pay TV still see a lot of relevance in our portfolio.
Paul Davis: While Pay TV still remains a very important part of our business, you know, we've, we've intentionally diversified our revenue base since we separated over three years ago and made tremendous success with that, as you see in our non-recurring non-Pay TV recurring revenue, I should say. We're very pleased with those results and the progress we made, especially around OTT, semiconductors, and adjacent media markets. Yeah, you know, Pay TV continues to be an important market for us, and we've got a number, as I noted in my prepared remarks, that of deals that go out into the next decade. You know, our customers in Pay TV still see a lot of relevance in our portfolio.
Speaker #1: As you see in our non-recurring our pay TV, our non-pay TV recurring revenue, I should say. So we're very pleased with those results and the progress we made, especially around OTT, semiconductors, and adjacent media markets.
Speaker #1: But yeah, pay TV continues to be an important market for us. We've got a number, as I noted in my prepared remarks, of deals that go out into the next decade.
Speaker #1: So, our customers and pay TV still see a lot of relevance in our portfolio. We're still getting deals done in that space, but those subscriber declines are built into our expectations, and we do think over time that those will moderate.
Paul Davis: We're still getting deals done in that space, but those subscriber declines are built into our expectations. We do think over time that those will, those will moderate. Great question. Thanks, Kevin.
Paul Davis: We're still getting deals done in that space, but those subscriber declines are built into our expectations. We do think over time that those will, those will moderate. Great question. Thanks, Kevin.
Speaker #1: But great question. Thanks, Kevin.
Speaker #4: Okay, great. Yeah, just to follow up if I can ask on the on rapid cool, you know, the interest is encouraging and just wondering if you could discuss the competitive landscape.
Kevin Cassidy: Okay, great. Yeah, just a, a follow-up, if I can ask one. The on RapidCool, you know, the interest is encouraging and just wondering if you could discuss the competitive landscape. You know, what other solutions are your customers looking at, or what's, I guess, what, what is their decision process evaluating RapidCool or adopting it?
Kevin Cassidy: Okay, great. Yeah, just a, a follow-up, if I can ask one. The on RapidCool, you know, the interest is encouraging and just wondering if you could discuss the competitive landscape. You know, what other solutions are your customers looking at, or what's, I guess, what, what is their decision process evaluating RapidCool or adopting it?
Speaker #4: You know, what other solutions are your customers looking at or what's I guess what is their decision process evaluating rapid cool or adopting it?
Speaker #1: Yeah, you know, what's unique about our business is, you know, we don't compete in the typical sense, right? We license our technology on a portfolio-wide basis and rapid cool will be part of that moving forward.
Paul Davis: Yeah, you know, what's, what's unique about our business is, you know, we don't compete in the, the, the typical sense, right? We license our technology on a portfolio-wide basis, and RapidCool will be part of that moving forward. You know, we're getting a lot of interest both on the logic side and on the memory side. We think there's applicability in both, especially as, you know, these AI workloads require more and more memory, as you know, Kevin. We see RapidCool being relevant for HBM as in addition to, in addition to logic. We're getting a lot of pull on that. What's great about our solution and what we think differentiates it, is it's plug-and-play, right? You can use the same equipment that is being used today.
Paul Davis: Yeah, you know, what's, what's unique about our business is, you know, we don't compete in the, the, the typical sense, right? We license our technology on a portfolio-wide basis, and RapidCool will be part of that moving forward. You know, we're getting a lot of interest both on the logic side and on the memory side. We think there's applicability in both, especially as, you know, these AI workloads require more and more memory, as you know, Kevin. We see RapidCool being relevant for HBM as in addition to, in addition to logic. We're getting a lot of pull on that. What's great about our solution and what we think differentiates it, is it's plug-and-play, right? You can use the same equipment that is being used today.
Speaker #1: And we're getting a lot of interest both on the logic side and on the memory side. We think there's applicability in both, especially as these AI workloads require more and more memory, as you know, Kevin.
Speaker #1: And we see Rapid Cool being relevant for HBM in addition to logic. And so we're getting a lot of pull on that. What's great about our solution, and what we think differentiates it, is it's plug and play, right?
Speaker #1: You can use the same equipment that is being used today. You can put it into a liquid cooling rack and data center, right, that is already set up for liquid cooling today.
Paul Davis: You can put it into a liquid cooling rack and data center, right, that is already set up for liquid cooling today, and use RapidCool in the same way that you would use a liquid cooling cold plate. That's tremendous, and we're hearing a lot of benefits around our solution related to that. That's what excites us about our solution versus competitive solutions.
Paul Davis: You can put it into a liquid cooling rack and data center, right, that is already set up for liquid cooling today, and use RapidCool in the same way that you would use a liquid cooling cold plate. That's tremendous, and we're hearing a lot of benefits around our solution related to that. That's what excites us about our solution versus competitive solutions.
Speaker #1: And use rapid cool in the same way that you would use a liquid cooling cold plate so that's tremendous. And we're hearing a lot of benefits around our solution related to that.
Speaker #1: And so that's what excites us about our solution versus competitive solutions.
Speaker #4: Okay, great. And congratulations again.
Kevin Cassidy: Okay, great. Congratulations again.
Kevin Cassidy: Okay, great. Congratulations again.
Speaker #1: Thanks. Thank you.
Paul Davis: Thanks. Thank you.
Paul Davis: Thanks. Thank you.
Speaker #3: The next question comes from Scott Searle with Roth Capital. Your line is open.
Operator: The next question comes from Scott Searle with Roth Capital. Your line is open.
Operator: The next question comes from Scott Searle with Roth Capital. Your line is open.
Speaker #5: Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. Nice to see the strong conclusion to '25 and strong start to '26. Maybe, Keith, just to dive in in terms of the mix of business in the fourth quarter, I'm wondering if you could provide a little bit more color in terms of recurring and non-recurring, and also media and semiconductor, kind of the splits in terms of those businesses. And maybe a quick update in terms of how sequentially the 3D NAND market has been progressing. Then I had a couple of follow-ups.
Scott Searle: Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. Nice to see the strong conclusion to 2025 and strong start to 2026. Hey, maybe, Keith, just to drive in, in terms of the mix of business in Q4, I'm wondering if you could provide a little bit more color in terms of recurring and non-recurring, and also media and semiconductor, kind of the splits in terms of those businesses, and maybe a quick update in terms of how sequentially the 3D NAND market has been progressing, and then I had a couple of follow-ups.
Scott Searle: Hey, good afternoon. Thanks for taking the questions. Nice to see the strong conclusion to 2025 and strong start to 2026. Hey, maybe, Keith, just to drive in, in terms of the mix of business in Q4, I'm wondering if you could provide a little bit more color in terms of recurring and non-recurring, and also media and semiconductor, kind of the splits in terms of those businesses, and maybe a quick update in terms of how sequentially the 3D NAND market has been progressing, and then I had a couple of follow-ups.
Speaker #1: Hey, Scott, great to hear from you. So for us in Q4, the amount of recurring versus non-recurring, it was almost equally split. It was pretty close to 50-50.
Keith Jones: Hey, Scott, great to hear from you. For us, in Q4, the amount of recurring versus non-recurring, it was almost equally split. It was pretty close to 50/50. That just kind of gives you a feel in the size and the magnitude of the license agreement that we signed with Disney and the amount that we had recognized related to some of the prior licensing periods. That in itself was significant. That actually brought us out for the year, where we ended the year at 80% recurring, 20% non-recurring, which is pretty consistent if you take a look at our history and how we trend it as a business.
Keith Jones: Hey, Scott, great to hear from you. For us, in Q4, the amount of recurring versus non-recurring, it was almost equally split. It was pretty close to 50/50. That just kind of gives you a feel in the size and the magnitude of the license agreement that we signed with Disney and the amount that we had recognized related to some of the prior licensing periods. That in itself was significant. That actually brought us out for the year, where we ended the year at 80% recurring, 20% non-recurring, which is pretty consistent if you take a look at our history and how we trend it as a business.
Speaker #1: That just kind of gives you a feel for the size or the magnitude of the license agreement that we signed with Disney, and the amount that we had recognized related to some of the prior licensing period.
Speaker #1: So that in itself was significant. So that actually brought us out for the year, where we ended the year at 80% recurring, 20% non-recurring, which is pretty consistent if you take a look at our history and how we've trended as a business.
Speaker #1: So that number when we take a look at back a year ago, this is kind of where we thought we'd end and actually a little bit greater.
Keith Jones: You know, that number, when we take a look at back a year ago, this is kind of where we, we thought we would end, and actually a little bit greater. In terms of other mix of the business in semiconductor, and as well as media, I kind of started off with semiconductor for a reason, because I'm quite proud of that group. We had a increase in revenue. If we compare 2024 to 2025, 2024, we did about $18 million in revenue from semiconductor. This year, we did about $26 million, so 40% increase.
Keith Jones: You know, that number, when we take a look at back a year ago, this is kind of where we, we thought we would end, and actually a little bit greater. In terms of other mix of the business in semiconductor, and as well as media, I kind of started off with semiconductor for a reason, because I'm quite proud of that group. We had a increase in revenue. If we compare 2024 to 2025, 2024, we did about $18 million in revenue from semiconductor. This year, we did about $26 million, so 40% increase.
Speaker #1: So everything kind of really lines up to where we thought it would be in terms of the other mix of the business and semiconductor, as well as media. I kind of started off with semiconductor reason because I'm quite proud of that group.
Speaker #1: We had an increase in revenue if we compare 24 to 25, 24 we did about $18 million in revenue from semiconductor. This year, we did about 26.
Speaker #1: So, 40% increase, so those deals that we signed late in '24 and early in '25—we talked about ST Micro being a significant deal.
Keith Jones: Those deals that we signed late in 2024 and early in 2025, and we talked about STMicro being a significant deal, really started to add to the traction, and we're seeing a little bit more of a pickup, really on the NAND flash of things. I think that was, might have been your third question in, in kind of how we see things progressing. We can't be more pleased in how we what we're seeing in the NAND market. One of the things I do have to remind is that when we signed that agreement, there were certain minimums that were built into the agreement. That, as a result of those minimums, we took a certain amount of revenue upfront when we signed that.
Keith Jones: Those deals that we signed late in 2024 and early in 2025, and we talked about STMicro being a significant deal, really started to add to the traction, and we're seeing a little bit more of a pickup, really on the NAND flash of things. I think that was, might have been your third question in, in kind of how we see things progressing. We can't be more pleased in how we what we're seeing in the NAND market. One of the things I do have to remind is that when we signed that agreement, there were certain minimums that were built into the agreement. That, as a result of those minimums, we took a certain amount of revenue upfront when we signed that.
Speaker #1: Really started at the traction, and we're seeing a little bit more of a pickup, really, on the NAND flash of things. So I think that might have been your third question, and kind of how we see things progressing.
Speaker #1: We can't be more pleased in how we—what we're seeing in the NAND market. One of the things I do have to remind is that when we signed that agreement, there were certain minimums that were built into the agreement, that as a result of those minimums, we took a certain amount of revenue upfront when we signed that.
Speaker #1: So we have to work through some of those minimums, so that impacts to revenue that we work recognized in '25 and '26, and '24 as well.
Keith Jones: We have to work through some of those minimums, so that impacts the revenue that we recognize in 2025, in 2026, and 2024 as well. We will see a increase. We'll see a modest increase, but we'll pretty much fundamentally work through most of those minimums in 2027, so it'll be more pronounced then. Everything is up and to the right in that regard. Really off to a great start. Our media business, absolutely fantastic. Roughly 94% of our, our total revenue, and we are, couldn't be more happy about how we started the year. We signed a couple new deals. We talked about Microsoft, and then we also signed a few deals or a deal on the semiconductor side of the business as well.
Keith Jones: We have to work through some of those minimums, so that impacts the revenue that we recognize in 2025, in 2026, and 2024 as well. We will see a increase. We'll see a modest increase, but we'll pretty much fundamentally work through most of those minimums in 2027, so it'll be more pronounced then. Everything is up and to the right in that regard. Really off to a great start. Our media business, absolutely fantastic. Roughly 94% of our, our total revenue, and we are, couldn't be more happy about how we started the year. We signed a couple new deals. We talked about Microsoft, and then we also signed a few deals or a deal on the semiconductor side of the business as well.
Speaker #1: So, we will see an increase. We'll see a modest increase, but we'll pretty much fundamentally work through most of those minimums in '27, so it'll be more pronounced then. But everything is up and to the right in that regard.
Speaker #1: So really off to a great start. Our media business absolutely fantastic. Roughly 94% of our total revenue. And we are couldn't be more happy about how we started the year.
Speaker #1: We signed a couple of new deals. We talked about Microsoft. And then we also signed a few deals or a deal on the semiconductor side of the business as well.
Speaker #1: So off to a great start and upward trajectory.
Keith Jones: Off to a great start and an upward trajectory.
Keith Jones: Off to a great start and an upward trajectory.
Speaker #4: Great, very helpful. If I could just quickly follow up on a clarification on the NAND front, just want to clarify in terms of pricing.
Scott Searle: Great. Very, very helpful. If I could just quickly follow up on clarification on the NAND front. Just want to clarify in terms of pricing, you, you guys, I, as I understand it, right, you're not, you don't benefit necessarily from the price increases that are going on in the marketplace. You're driven by unit volumes. Is that, does that include capacity overall in terms of, you know, overall NAND capacity that you guys are shipping? Is, is that how the royalty agreement is priced?
Scott Searle: Great. Very, very helpful. If I could just quickly follow up on clarification on the NAND front. Just want to clarify in terms of pricing, you, you guys, I, as I understand it, right, you're not, you don't benefit necessarily from the price increases that are going on in the marketplace. You're driven by unit volumes. Is that, does that include capacity overall in terms of, you know, overall NAND capacity that you guys are shipping? Is, is that how the royalty agreement is priced?
Speaker #4: You guys, as I understand it, right, you're not you don't benefit necessarily from the price increases that are going on in the marketplace. You're driven by unit volumes.
Speaker #4: And does that include capacity overall, in terms of overall NAND capacity that you guys are shipping? Is that how the royalty agreement is priced?
Speaker #1: Yeah, you picked up on a great note there. So our agreements are not based on the selling price when we go through a negotiation.
Keith Jones: Yeah, you, you picked up on a great note there. Our agreements are not based on the selling price. When we go through, renegotiate for those agreements, it's based on a fixed amount per unit. There is some degree of scaling in there, but usually it's more so a volume discount, so the more they produce, the more benefit that we kind of give them later on down the road. What you're seeing is that dynamic of two things, of increases in NAND and then increases in volume. We benefit from the increase in volume and not the increase in pricing.
Keith Jones: Yeah, you, you picked up on a great note there. Our agreements are not based on the selling price. When we go through, renegotiate for those agreements, it's based on a fixed amount per unit. There is some degree of scaling in there, but usually it's more so a volume discount, so the more they produce, the more benefit that we kind of give them later on down the road. What you're seeing is that dynamic of two things, of increases in NAND and then increases in volume. We benefit from the increase in volume and not the increase in pricing.
Speaker #1: For those agreements, it's based on a fixed amount per unit. There is some degree of scaling in there, but usually it's more so a volume discount.
Speaker #1: So the more they produce, the more benefit that we kind of give them later on down the road. So what you're seeing is that dynamic of two things: of increases in NAND, and then increases in volume.
Speaker #1: We benefit from the increase in volume. And not the increase in pricing. I would also just add, Scott, on NAND, just as a reminder, we signed the deals with Kioxia and SanDisk in March of 2023.
Paul Davis: I would also just add, Scott, on, on NAND, you know, just as a reminder, you know, we signed the deals with Kioxia and SanDisk in March 2023. At that time, they had no NAND products that utilized hybrid bonding, you know, and so there's been this ramp of, you know, of the mix of their product lines that include, you know, hybrid bonded products, which was also, you know, impacts as we see. As total NAND goes up, you know, we- we're focused on what is the, the percentage of that that is hybrid bonded as well.
Paul Davis: I would also just add, Scott, on, on NAND, you know, just as a reminder, you know, we signed the deals with Kioxia and SanDisk in March 2023. At that time, they had no NAND products that utilized hybrid bonding, you know, and so there's been this ramp of, you know, of the mix of their product lines that include, you know, hybrid bonded products, which was also, you know, impacts as we see. As total NAND goes up, you know, we- we're focused on what is the, the percentage of that that is hybrid bonded as well.
Speaker #1: At that time, they had no NAND products that utilized hybrid bonding. And so, there's been this ramp of the mix of their product lines that include hybrid-bonded products, which also impacts, as we see.
Speaker #1: So, as total NAND goes up, we're focused on what percentage of that is hybrid bonded as well.
Speaker #5: Very helpful. And if I could, in terms of the guidance for 2026, and this will be a little bit of a multi-part question here, but wanted to get calibrated on a couple of fronts.
Scott Searle: Very helpful. If I could, you know, in terms of the guidance for 2026, and this will be a little bit of a multi-part question here, but wanted to get calibrated on a couple of fronts. It seems like media, there's a lot of momentum that's building. We have the initial step down in the Q1 of one Pay TV customer, but given Disney, given some of the other momentum with Microsoft and otherwise, two things: Are you expecting in media to see sequential growth throughout the course of the year from the March quarter on? Do you expect media to grow from a recurring standpoint on a year-over-year basis? As it relates to semi, I'm kind of wondering if you could frame, you know, your, your optimism for 2026.
Scott Searle: Very helpful. If I could, you know, in terms of the guidance for 2026, and this will be a little bit of a multi-part question here, but wanted to get calibrated on a couple of fronts. It seems like media, there's a lot of momentum that's building. We have the initial step down in the Q1 of one Pay TV customer, but given Disney, given some of the other momentum with Microsoft and otherwise, two things: Are you expecting in media to see sequential growth throughout the course of the year from the March quarter on? Do you expect media to grow from a recurring standpoint on a year-over-year basis? As it relates to semi, I'm kind of wondering if you could frame, you know, your, your optimism for 2026.
Speaker #5: It seems like media, there's a lot of momentum that's building. We have the initial step down in the first quarter of 1P TV customer, but given Disney, given some of the other momentum with Microsoft and otherwise, two things.
Speaker #5: Are you expecting in media to see sequential growth throughout the course of the year from the March quarter on? And do you expect media to grow from a recurring standpoint on a year-over-year basis?
Speaker #5: And then as it relates to semi, I'm kind of wondering if you could frame your optimism for 2026. It seems like there's certainly momentum building with the existing 3D NAND customer base, but Paul, you called out some of the ongoing discussions that you've got with some of the larger logic players out there that will introduce products in the course of 2026.
Scott Searle: It seems like there's certainly momentum building with the existing 3D NAND customer base. Paul, you called out some of the ongoing discussions that you've got with some of the larger, larger logic players out there that will introduce products in the course of 2026. I'm wondering, what are you guys factoring in to that guidance? Are you assuming that there's a logic customer that comes in, or is that basically a baseline view of just kind of growing the existing NAND business and what you've got visibility to in front of you on the media side? Thanks.
Scott Searle: It seems like there's certainly momentum building with the existing 3D NAND customer base. Paul, you called out some of the ongoing discussions that you've got with some of the larger, larger logic players out there that will introduce products in the course of 2026. I'm wondering, what are you guys factoring in to that guidance? Are you assuming that there's a logic customer that comes in, or is that basically a baseline view of just kind of growing the existing NAND business and what you've got visibility to in front of you on the media side? Thanks.
Speaker #5: So I'm wondering, what are you guys factoring into that guidance? Are you assuming that there's a Logic customer that comes in, or is that basically a baseline view of just kind of growing the existing NAND business and what you've got visibility to in front of you on the media side?
Speaker #5: Thanks.
Speaker #1: Yeah, a lot to unpack there, Scott. But let me attempt to address the second part of your question around the semiconductor business, and then I'll turn it back to Keith on the first part of your question.
Paul Davis: Yeah. A lot, a lot to unpack there, Scott, but let me, let me attempt to address the second part of your question around the semiconductor business, and then I'll turn it back to Keith on the first part of your question. You know, our optimism in semi is still very strong. You know, I think not only are in logic, but as we look out further beyond 2026, what we're seeing in memory, not just in the NAND market, but also, you know, further down the road, as we've talked about before, with HBM and the broader memory market, as we have relicensing opportunities down the road.
Paul Davis: Yeah. A lot, a lot to unpack there, Scott, but let me, let me attempt to address the second part of your question around the semiconductor business, and then I'll turn it back to Keith on the first part of your question. You know, our optimism in semi is still very strong. You know, I think not only are in logic, but as we look out further beyond 2026, what we're seeing in memory, not just in the NAND market, but also, you know, further down the road, as we've talked about before, with HBM and the broader memory market, as we have relicensing opportunities down the road.
Speaker #1: Our optimism in semi is still very strong. I think not only in logic, but as we look out further beyond 2026, what we're seeing in memory—not just in the NAND market, but also further down the road, as we've talked about before with HBM and the broader memory market—as we have re-licensing opportunities down the road.
Paul Davis: You know, really, really just tremendous amount of investment today, as I noted in my prepared, prepared remarks, and in, in advanced packaging and, and hybrid bonding specifically, as the, the big three really try to control, you know, their own destiny on, on hybrid bonding and advanced packaging, which is, you know, great for us as we, as we move forward. Yeah, we do have a lot of optimism in our, in our guide overall. We actually have multiple paths to get to where we, where we need to be, and I think our pipeline is stronger going into this year than it has been in, in, you know, since we've separated in terms of the number of large opportunities that we have on the table.
Paul Davis: You know, really, really just tremendous amount of investment today, as I noted in my prepared, prepared remarks, and in, in advanced packaging and, and hybrid bonding specifically, as the, the big three really try to control, you know, their own destiny on, on hybrid bonding and advanced packaging, which is, you know, great for us as we, as we move forward. Yeah, we do have a lot of optimism in our, in our guide overall. We actually have multiple paths to get to where we, where we need to be, and I think our pipeline is stronger going into this year than it has been in, in, you know, since we've separated in terms of the number of large opportunities that we have on the table.
Speaker #1: Really just a tremendous amount of investment today, as I noted in my prepared remarks. And in advanced packaging and hybrid bonding specifically, as the big three really try to control their own destiny on hybrid bonding and advanced packaging.
Speaker #1: Which is great for us as we move forward. So, yeah, we do have a lot of optimism in our guide overall. We actually have multiple paths to get to where we need to be.
Speaker #1: And I think our pipeline is stronger going into this year than it has been in since we've separated in terms of the number of large opportunities that we have on the table.
Speaker #1: And so, there's multiple ways that we can get to within our guidance range. And it could continue to be driven by media, but there are some large semiconductor opportunities as well that are possible in addition to that.
Paul Davis: There's multiple ways that we can get to within our, our guidance range and, you know, could be continue to be driven by media, but there's some large semiconductor opportunities as well, that are, that are possible in addition to that.
Paul Davis: There's multiple ways that we can get to within our, our guidance range and, you know, could be continue to be driven by media, but there's some large semiconductor opportunities as well, that are, that are possible in addition to that.
Speaker #2: Yeah, Scott, and just to help in terms no, I'm sorry. So you asked about how do we kind of see the media business kind of looking in 2026.
Keith Jones: Yeah, Scott.
Keith Jones: Yeah, Scott.
Scott Searle: That's very helpful.
Scott Searle: That's very helpful.
Keith Jones: No, I'm sorry. You asked about how do we kind of see the media business kind of looking in 2026. A lot of great momentum. I, I think, you know, on the Pay TV front, I know Paul did a good job of capturing that, seeing that shift being about 35% to 40%. Really one of the tremendous stories on the OTT front, right? We see that business being about 30+% of our total revenue next year, which is just absolutely exciting. I think 30 to 35 is really kind of a way to kind of take a look at it. That just really shows a lot of growth from where we started.
Keith Jones: No, I'm sorry. You asked about how do we kind of see the media business kind of looking in 2026. A lot of great momentum. I, I think, you know, on the Pay TV front, I know Paul did a good job of capturing that, seeing that shift being about 35% to 40%. Really one of the tremendous stories on the OTT front, right? We see that business being about 30+% of our total revenue next year, which is just absolutely exciting. I think 30 to 35 is really kind of a way to kind of take a look at it. That just really shows a lot of growth from where we started.
Speaker #2: So a lot of great momentum. I think on the pay TV front, Paul did a good job of capturing that, seeing that shift being about 35 to 40%.
Speaker #2: But really, one of the tremendous stories on the OTT front, right? So we see that business being about 30-plus percent of our total revenue.
Speaker #2: Next year, which is just absolutely exciting. So I think 30 to 35 is really kind of a way to kind of take a look at it.
Speaker #2: And that just really shows a lot of growth from where we started. So our market share today is about 50% for on the OTT side.
Keith Jones: You know, our market share today is about 50% for on the OTT side, so that's really driving it. That sets us up quite well to kind of get back to your question in terms of how do we see the media business. When you, you kind of balance things out for recurring, kind of related revenue, it really sets us up to have a nice modest increase in our revenue year-over-year. Really kind of a great exciting story for us.
Keith Jones: You know, our market share today is about 50% for on the OTT side, so that's really driving it. That sets us up quite well to kind of get back to your question in terms of how do we see the media business. When you, you kind of balance things out for recurring, kind of related revenue, it really sets us up to have a nice modest increase in our revenue year-over-year. Really kind of a great exciting story for us.
Speaker #2: So that's really driving it. So that sets us up quite well to kind of get back to your question in terms of how do we see the media business.
Speaker #2: So when you kind of balance things out for recurring kind of related revenue, it really sets us up to have a nice modest increase in our revenue year-over-year.
Speaker #2: And so really kind of a great exciting story for us.
Speaker #5: Gotcha. Very helpful. And lastly, if I could just follow up with one more, just because the semi side is so intriguing and exciting. Paul, so it sounds like, look, there are some opportunities this year.
Scott Searle: Got you. Very helpful. Lastly, if I could just follow up with one more, just because the semi side is so intriguing and exciting. Paul, it sounds like, look, there are some opportunities this year, it sounds like more logic-based, but from a, in the marketplace, there's a tremendous amount of press talking about demand for HBM, what we're seeing in data center and otherwise, and pricing and the evolution quicker than people expected from HBM3 to 4, 4E, et cetera. I'm just wondering, I, I know this is tied to renewal agreements with some of the larger players out there in 2027, 2028, but I'm wondering how the view is from a customer standpoint, engagement standpoint on that front. It seems like the market is accelerating well ahead of where we thought it would be probably 12 or 18 months ago.
Scott Searle: Got you. Very helpful. Lastly, if I could just follow up with one more, just because the semi side is so intriguing and exciting. Paul, it sounds like, look, there are some opportunities this year, it sounds like more logic-based, but from a, in the marketplace, there's a tremendous amount of press talking about demand for HBM, what we're seeing in data center and otherwise, and pricing and the evolution quicker than people expected from HBM3 to 4, 4E, et cetera. I'm just wondering, I, I know this is tied to renewal agreements with some of the larger players out there in 2027, 2028, but I'm wondering how the view is from a customer standpoint, engagement standpoint on that front. It seems like the market is accelerating well ahead of where we thought it would be probably 12 or 18 months ago.
Speaker #5: It sounds like more logic-based. But from in the marketplace, there's a tremendous amount of press talking about demand for HBM, what we're seeing in data center and otherwise, and pricing and the evolution quicker than people expected from HBM3 to 4, 4E, etc.
Speaker #5: So, I'm just wondering—I know this is tied to renewal agreements with some of the larger players out there in 2027, 2028—but I'm wondering how the view is from a customer standpoint, engagement standpoint, on that front.
Speaker #5: It seems like the market is accelerating well ahead of where we thought it would be probably 12 or 18 months ago. Is that how you guys are viewing that?
Scott Searle: Is, is that how you guys are viewing that? Is that translating into at least productive conversations, you know, notwithstanding that, you know, we, we require renewals in the 2027, 2028 timeframe? Thanks.
Scott Searle: Is, is that how you guys are viewing that? Is that translating into at least productive conversations, you know, notwithstanding that, you know, we, we require renewals in the 2027, 2028 timeframe? Thanks.
Speaker #5: And is that translating into at least productive conversations, notwithstanding that we require renewals in the 2027, 2028 time frame? Thanks.
Speaker #1: Yeah, yeah, thanks, Scott. I mean, we're tremendously pleased with what we're seeing from a marketplace standpoint on memory. And as you think about Micron, Samsung, and SK Hynix—not only on HBM, but what we're seeing with NAND, as we've talked about before—we were thrilled to get the deals done with Kioxia and SanDisk.
Paul Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Scott. I mean, we're tremendously pleased with what we're seeing from a marketplace standpoint on memory. As you think about, you know, Micron, Samsung and SK Hynix, you know, not only on HBM, but what we're seeing with NAND, as we talked about before, you know, we're thrilled to get the deals done with Kioxia and SanDisk, and, you know, we see the need for NAND and the other big three providers as they get to around 400 layers to eventually go to hybrid bonding as well. So, you know, I think there's an opportunity on both fronts in memory, both in NAND and with HBM.
Paul Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Scott. I mean, we're tremendously pleased with what we're seeing from a marketplace standpoint on memory. As you think about, you know, Micron, Samsung and SK Hynix, you know, not only on HBM, but what we're seeing with NAND, as we talked about before, you know, we're thrilled to get the deals done with Kioxia and SanDisk, and, you know, we see the need for NAND and the other big three providers as they get to around 400 layers to eventually go to hybrid bonding as well. So, you know, I think there's an opportunity on both fronts in memory, both in NAND and with HBM.
Speaker #1: And we see the need for NAND and the other big three providers, as they get to around 400 layers, to eventually go to hybrid bonding as well.
Speaker #1: And so I think there's an opportunity on both fronts—in memory, both in NAND and with HBM. And so I don't want, I don't want everyone to forget about NAND.
Paul Davis: I, I don't want everyone to forget about NAND either, because, you know, it's pretty significant for the, for those players as well, and what they're, what they're trying to provide. We think hybrid bonding will be an important story. When you think about AI, NAND's becoming more important as well, on that side as well, so as people are trying to, you know, to deal with these AI workloads. It, it's, it's exciting on both fronts and certainly the conversations and not just with hybrid bonding. As I mentioned earlier, you know, with RapidCool as well, being, I think, an enabling technology not only for logic, but also for the memory market.
Paul Davis: I, I don't want everyone to forget about NAND either, because, you know, it's pretty significant for the, for those players as well, and what they're, what they're trying to provide. We think hybrid bonding will be an important story. When you think about AI, NAND's becoming more important as well, on that side as well, so as people are trying to, you know, to deal with these AI workloads. It, it's, it's exciting on both fronts and certainly the conversations and not just with hybrid bonding. As I mentioned earlier, you know, with RapidCool as well, being, I think, an enabling technology not only for logic, but also for the memory market.
Speaker #1: Either because it's pretty significant for those players as well, and what they're trying to provide. And we think hybrid bonding will be an important story.
Speaker #1: And when you think about AI, NAND's becoming more important as well on that side as well. So as people are trying to deal with these AI workloads.
Speaker #1: So it's exciting on both fronts and certainly the conversations. And not just with hybrid bonding. As I mentioned earlier, with rapid cool as well being I think an enabling technology not only for logic, but also for the memory market we see an opportunity there.
Paul Davis: We see an opportunity there, and certainly conversations are progressing with a number of folks on that front as well.
Paul Davis: We see an opportunity there, and certainly conversations are progressing with a number of folks on that front as well.
Speaker #1: And certainly conversations are progressing with a number of folks on that front as well.
Speaker #5: Great, thanks so much. I'll get back in the queue.
Scott Searle: Great. Thanks so much. I'll get back in the queue.
Scott Searle: Great. Thanks so much. I'll get back in the queue.
Operator: Your next question comes from Hamed Khorsand with BWS Financial. Your line is open. Hamed Khorsand, perhaps your line is on mute.
Operator: Your next question comes from Hamed Khorsand with BWS Financial. Your line is open. Hamed Khorsand, perhaps your line is on mute.
Speaker #4: Your next question comes from Hamed Korsand with BWS Financial. Your line is open. Hamed Korsand? Perhaps your line is on mute?
Speaker #5: Oh, yeah. Sorry about that. Could you talk about the quarter's revenue and how you outperformed given the guidance you gave right before Christmas? So, what drove that outperformance?
Hamed Khorsand: Oh, yeah, sorry about that. Could you talk about the quarter's revenue and you, you outperformed, given the guidance you gave right before Christmas? What drove that outperformance? Is there any recognition from 26 into 25? If you just give a little bit more details about that, please.
Hamed Khorsand: Oh, yeah, sorry about that. Could you talk about the quarter's revenue and you, you outperformed, given the guidance you gave right before Christmas? What drove that outperformance? Is there any recognition from 26 into 25? If you just give a little bit more details about that, please.
Speaker #5: Is there any recognition from 2026 into 2025? If you could just give it a little bit more detail about that, please.
Speaker #1: Hey, Hamed. Great question. So when we announced the deal with Disney, it was hot off the press after we signed that. So, frankly, the accounting wasn't done.
Keith Jones: Hey, Hamed, great question. When we announced the deal with Disney, it was hot off the press after we signed that. Frankly, the accounting wasn't done, and it's a very large and complex transaction. I think you and I discussed that before. Ultimately, we got the accounting set up. There were some things there that were more favorable to us. Also, to add to that, and where you see this overachievement on the revenue and the guidance, we closed more business, and we had a strong close to the year.
Keith Jones: Hey, Hamed, great question. When we announced the deal with Disney, it was hot off the press after we signed that. Frankly, the accounting wasn't done, and it's a very large and complex transaction. I think you and I discussed that before. Ultimately, we got the accounting set up. There were some things there that were more favorable to us. Also, to add to that, and where you see this overachievement on the revenue and the guidance, we closed more business, and we had a strong close to the year.
Speaker #1: And it's a very large and complex transaction. I think we—you and I—discussed that before. And then, ultimately, we got the accounting set up.
Speaker #1: So, there were some things there that were more favorable to us. But also, to add to that—and where you see this overachievement on the revenue and the guidance—we closed more business.
Speaker #1: And we had a strong close to the year. Most notably, I could kind of point to—we talked about Major League Baseball as one—but there were others that were great momentum from our sales team.
Keith Jones: Most notably, I could kind of point to, you know, we talked about Major League Baseball as 1, but there were others that with great momentum from our sales team, those guys didn't take a vacation after they signed Disney. They kept on working hard, and, and we benefit from that. Last but not least, but it was quite frankly, very meaningful to us, is that both on our media side and our semiconductor side, we got some very favorable royalty reports from increased volume. You, you heard earlier, you know, in particular, one of the other, Kevin Cassidy, had talked about where we see from Chartered, and we saw that across the board, that the, the numbers that we reported on Pay TV were favorable.
Keith Jones: Most notably, I could kind of point to, you know, we talked about Major League Baseball as 1, but there were others that with great momentum from our sales team, those guys didn't take a vacation after they signed Disney. They kept on working hard, and, and we benefit from that. Last but not least, but it was quite frankly, very meaningful to us, is that both on our media side and our semiconductor side, we got some very favorable royalty reports from increased volume. You, you heard earlier, you know, in particular, one of the other, Kevin Cassidy, had talked about where we see from Chartered, and we saw that across the board, that the, the numbers that we reported on Pay TV were favorable.
Speaker #1: Those guys didn't take a vacation after they signed Disney. They kept on working hard. And we benefited from that. Last but not least, but it was quite frankly very meaningful to us is that both on our media side and our semiconductor side, we got some very favorable royalty reports from increased volume.
Speaker #1: You heard earlier, in particular, one of the other Kevin Casty had talked about where we see from Charter, and we saw that across the board that the numbers that we reported on pay TV were favorable.
Speaker #1: And then also, to no surprise, what we've seen also on the semiconductor side—in particular on the NAND and how that has been going—it was more favorable to us.
Keith Jones: To no surprise, what, what we've seen also on the semiconductor side, in particular in the NAND, and how that has been going, it, it was more favorable to us. That all added up to a tremendous beat for us and coming out with the, the, the revenue number that was significantly over the guidance that we had set forth.
Keith Jones: To no surprise, what, what we've seen also on the semiconductor side, in particular in the NAND, and how that has been going, it, it was more favorable to us. That all added up to a tremendous beat for us and coming out with the, the, the revenue number that was significantly over the guidance that we had set forth.
Speaker #1: So that all added up to a tremendous beat for us in coming out with the revenue number that was significantly over the guidance that we had set forth.
Speaker #5: Okay. And then if you go into 2026, you've announced Microsoft. That's obviously a great, big name. But is that going to be material for you in 2026?
Hamed Khorsand: Okay. Then, if you go into 26, you know, you've announced Microsoft. That's obviously a great big name, but is that going to be material for you in 26? Is it going to be cash-driven, or is there minimum guarantees? You know, could you rank that as to how big that opportunity is for you?
Hamed Khorsand: Okay. Then, if you go into 26, you know, you've announced Microsoft. That's obviously a great big name, but is that going to be material for you in 26? Is it going to be cash-driven, or is there minimum guarantees? You know, could you rank that as to how big that opportunity is for you?
Speaker #5: Is it going to be cash-driven, or is there a minimum guarantee? Could you rank that in terms of how big that opportunity is for you?
Paul Davis: You, you know, I'll, I'll take it first, Simon, and let, let Keith add anything. You know, it's a great deal for us. We're very pleased with getting Microsoft, you know, done, especially so early in the year. You know, as I mentioned, at the end of 2025, when we talked in November, you know, we had a lot of opportunities that we were chasing, you know, and a lot of significant opportunities. Certainly we've been able to execute on some of them here early in 2026 that we're very pleased with, Microsoft being one of those.
Paul Davis: You, you know, I'll, I'll take it first, Simon, and let, let Keith add anything. You know, it's a great deal for us. We're very pleased with getting Microsoft, you know, done, especially so early in the year. You know, as I mentioned, at the end of 2025, when we talked in November, you know, we had a lot of opportunities that we were chasing, you know, and a lot of significant opportunities. Certainly we've been able to execute on some of them here early in 2026 that we're very pleased with, Microsoft being one of those.
Speaker #1: I'll take it first, Hamed, and let Keith add anything. But it's a great deal for us. We're very pleased with getting Microsoft done, especially so early in the year.
Speaker #1: As I mentioned at the end of 2025, when we talked in November, we had a lot of opportunities that we were chasing, and a lot of significant opportunities.
Speaker #1: And certainly we've been able here early in 2026, and we're very pleased with Microsoft being one of those. So we can't get into the specifics, obviously, of the economics, but it's structured like many of our other pay TV—non-pay TV deals, I should say.
Paul Davis: We can't get into the specifics, obviously, of the economics, but you know, we, it's structured like many of our other Pay TV, non-Pay TV deals, I should say. That's, that's what I would would highlight for you, and they'll be a significant customer for us.
Paul Davis: We can't get into the specifics, obviously, of the economics, but you know, we, it's structured like many of our other Pay TV, non-Pay TV deals, I should say. That's, that's what I would would highlight for you, and they'll be a significant customer for us.
Speaker #1: And so, that's what I would highlight for you. And it will be—they'll be a significant customer for us.
Speaker #5: Okay. Thank you.
Hamed Khorsand: Okay, thank you.
Hamed Khorsand: Okay, thank you.
Speaker #4: Once again, if you have a question, it is *star one* on your telephone keypad. Your next question comes from Matthew Galinko with Maxim Group.
Operator: Once again, if you have a question, it is star one on your telephone keypad. Your next question comes from Matthew Galinko with Maxim Group. Your line is open.
Operator: Once again, if you have a question, it is star one on your telephone keypad. Your next question comes from Matthew Galinko with Maxim Group. Your line is open.
Speaker #4: Your line is open.
Speaker #6: Hi. Thank you for taking my questions. I think, Keith, you mentioned—and I didn't do the math—but a 55% EBITDA margin implying guidance. If that's correct, it seems like a step down from the last couple of years.
Matthew Galinko: Hi, thank you for taking my questions. I think, Keith, you mentioned, and I didn't do the math, but 55% EBITDA margin and compliant and guidance. If that's correct, it seems like a step down from the last couple of years. I was hoping you could maybe just go into the assumptions there of why we'd be seeing compression off, you know, what seems like a pretty strong revenue guide. Thanks.
Matthew Galinko: Hi, thank you for taking my questions. I think, Keith, you mentioned, and I didn't do the math, but 55% EBITDA margin and compliant and guidance. If that's correct, it seems like a step down from the last couple of years. I was hoping you could maybe just go into the assumptions there of why we'd be seeing compression off, you know, what seems like a pretty strong revenue guide. Thanks.
Speaker #6: So I was hoping you could maybe just go into the assumptions there of why we'd be seeing compression off what seems like a pretty strong revenue guide.
Speaker #6: Thanks.
Speaker #1: Yeah, I think the one thing that I would point to, in our business, if we take a look at our operating expenses of research and development and SG&A, you heard me talk about that—we're going to grow that at single-digit rates.
Keith Jones: Yeah, Matt, I think the one thing that I would point to. Our business, if we take a look at our operating expenses of research and development and SG&A, you heard me talk about that we're going to grow that at single digits in rates. That's pretty consistent that we've done for the last several years. The one thing that is different is Paul and I have talked about this going back to 2022, is that traditionally, when we took a look at that legal expense for 2022, 2023 and 2024, it was historically low. That was something that was an anomaly, and that's something that we didn't expect.
Keith Jones: Yeah, Matt, I think the one thing that I would point to. Our business, if we take a look at our operating expenses of research and development and SG&A, you heard me talk about that we're going to grow that at single digits in rates. That's pretty consistent that we've done for the last several years. The one thing that is different is Paul and I have talked about this going back to 2022, is that traditionally, when we took a look at that legal expense for 2022, 2023 and 2024, it was historically low. That was something that was an anomaly, and that's something that we didn't expect.
Speaker #1: And that's pretty consistent with what we've done for the last several years. The one thing that is different—and Paul and I have talked about this, going back to 2022—is that traditionally, when we take a look at that legal expense for '22, '23, and '24, it was historically low.
Speaker #1: And that was something that was an anomaly, and that's something that we didn't expect. So when Paul and I always took a look at the business, we said, if we look at history and what it takes to run our business, and being kind of who we are and what we need to do to ensure that we defend our IP, we had always thought that litigation expense should be in the 20s.
Keith Jones: When Paul and I always took a look at the business and we said: If we look at history and what does it take to run our business and being kind of who we are and, and what we need to do to ensure that we defend our, our IP, we had always thought that litigation expense should be in the twenties, and that's something that we always talked to you about and talked with others. With that being said, in 2025, you saw that we spent about $25 million in litigation expense, and that's something we always alluded to.
Keith Jones: When Paul and I always took a look at the business and we said: If we look at history and what does it take to run our business and being kind of who we are and, and what we need to do to ensure that we defend our, our IP, we had always thought that litigation expense should be in the twenties, and that's something that we always talked to you about and talked with others. With that being said, in 2025, you saw that we spent about $25 million in litigation expense, and that's something we always alluded to.
Speaker #1: And that's something that we always talked to you about and talked with others. So with that being said, '25, 2025, you saw that we spent about $25 million in litigation expense.
Speaker #1: And that's something we always alluded to. And then in 2026, you heard Paul talk about—or you heard me talk about—that our litigation expense will increase.
Keith Jones: In 2026, you, you heard Paul talk about, or you heard me talk about, that our litigation expense will increase, and I would say it increase anywhere between $5 to $10 million above that 2025 amount. Let's just talk about why that's important. Paul alluded to it. You know, we take our IP very seriously, and we want to defend our IP as much as our customers want to defend their own products and services. What we find is that we have a lot of great adoption of our technology in the marketplace, and we want to make sure that we're properly compensated for that. In some instances, that might involve litigation. It's a matter of being prepared more than anything else.
Keith Jones: In 2026, you, you heard Paul talk about, or you heard me talk about, that our litigation expense will increase, and I would say it increase anywhere between $5 to $10 million above that 2025 amount. Let's just talk about why that's important. Paul alluded to it. You know, we take our IP very seriously, and we want to defend our IP as much as our customers want to defend their own products and services. What we find is that we have a lot of great adoption of our technology in the marketplace, and we want to make sure that we're properly compensated for that. In some instances, that might involve litigation. It's a matter of being prepared more than anything else.
Speaker #1: And I would say to increase anywhere between $5 million to $10 million above that '25 amount. And let's just talk about why that's important.
Speaker #1: Paul alluded to it. We take our IP very seriously. And we want to defend our IP as much as our customers want to defend their own products and services.
Speaker #1: And what we find is that we have a lot of great adoption of our technology in the marketplace. And we want to make sure that we're properly compensated for that.
Speaker #1: And in some instances, that might involve litigation. So it's a matter of being prepared, more than anything else. And we, as Paul said, saw some great benefits from that.
Keith Jones: We, as Paul said, we saw some great benefits of that. That incremental spend, quite frankly, is is changing the margin from, be it low 60s to that 55% in in its entirety. Hopefully, that gives you a little bit more color.
Keith Jones: We, as Paul said, we saw some great benefits of that. That incremental spend, quite frankly, is is changing the margin from, be it low 60s to that 55% in in its entirety. Hopefully, that gives you a little bit more color.
Speaker #1: So that incremental spend, quite frankly, is changing the margin from, be it low 60s, to that 55% in its entirety. So hopefully that gives you a little bit more color.
Speaker #6: Sure, it does. And maybe just as a follow-up to that, I think Paul might have referenced the long-term goal of $500 million of annual revenue.
Matthew Galinko: Sure, it, it does. Maybe just as a follow-up to that, I think Paul might have referenced the long-term goal of $500 million of annual revenue. Again, correct me if I, I got that wrong, but, you know, maybe if we sort of take that number and think about what the litigation expense might be to get there, is that $30 million, $40 million, the right kind of level, or do you kind of need to keep, you know, pushing that up a little bit to drive revenue to the long-term level? Thanks.
Matthew Galinko: Sure, it, it does. Maybe just as a follow-up to that, I think Paul might have referenced the long-term goal of $500 million of annual revenue. Again, correct me if I, I got that wrong, but, you know, maybe if we sort of take that number and think about what the litigation expense might be to get there, is that $30 million, $40 million, the right kind of level, or do you kind of need to keep, you know, pushing that up a little bit to drive revenue to the long-term level? Thanks.
Speaker #6: And again, correct me if I got that wrong, but maybe if we sort of take that number and think about what the litigation expense might be to get there, is that $30 million?
Speaker #6: Forty million—is that the right kind of level? Or do you kind of need to keep pushing that up a little bit to drive revenue to the long-term level?
Speaker #6: Thanks.
Speaker #1: Yeah, Matt, I think it's a great question. And I think I've been consistent in always saying we prefer getting deals done without litigation. And that is our ethos.
Paul Davis: Yeah, Matt, Matt, you know, I, I think it's a, it's a great question, and, you know, I think I've, I've been consistent in always saying: You know, we prefer getting deals done without litigation, and that is our ethos. That's our, that's how we approach all of our customers, is we go to great strides to, you know, avoid litigation and find a path forward that gets deals done without it. At times it's needed. What you've seen with Disney and, you know, even with Altice and what we think is gonna, what you're gonna see, you know, in the future is we're, we're, we're good at it when we need to, right? It can, it can really drive great results for us.
Paul Davis: Yeah, Matt, Matt, you know, I, I think it's a, it's a great question, and, you know, I think I've, I've been consistent in always saying: You know, we prefer getting deals done without litigation, and that is our ethos. That's our, that's how we approach all of our customers, is we go to great strides to, you know, avoid litigation and find a path forward that gets deals done without it. At times it's needed. What you've seen with Disney and, you know, even with Altice and what we think is gonna, what you're gonna see, you know, in the future is we're, we're, we're good at it when we need to, right? It can, it can really drive great results for us.
Speaker #1: That's how we approach all of our customers—we go to great strides to avoid litigation and find a path forward that gets deals done without it.
Speaker #1: But at times, it's needed. And what you've seen with Disney and even with Altice and what we think was going to you're going to see in the future is we're good at it when we need to, right?
Speaker #1: And it can really drive great results for us. And so we're not afraid to file litigation when needed, to defend our IP, as Keith eloquently said earlier.
Paul Davis: We're not, we're not afraid to file litigation when, when needed, to defend our IP, as Keith eloquently said earlier. That is, that is, you know, part of that, that spend that's always gonna be there. I think, you know, I think it's always gonna be around, you know, kind of that $25 million to $35 million from a, just, you know, how we, how we think about it, how we forecast it. Are there gonna be years where it might be, you know, lower than that? Sure. Are there gonna be years where it could, you know, tick a little higher than that? Yeah, it could. For us, you know, we, we plan for it because, you know, it can, it can really drive, you know, some great results.
Paul Davis: We're not, we're not afraid to file litigation when, when needed, to defend our IP, as Keith eloquently said earlier. That is, that is, you know, part of that, that spend that's always gonna be there. I think, you know, I think it's always gonna be around, you know, kind of that $25 million to $35 million from a, just, you know, how we, how we think about it, how we forecast it. Are there gonna be years where it might be, you know, lower than that? Sure. Are there gonna be years where it could, you know, tick a little higher than that? Yeah, it could. For us, you know, we, we plan for it because, you know, it can, it can really drive, you know, some great results.
Speaker #1: And so that is part of that spend. That's always going to be there. And so I think it's always going to be around kind of that $25 to $35 million from just a how we think about it, how we forecast it.
Speaker #1: Are there going to be years where it might be lower than that? Sure. Are there going to be years where it could tick a little higher than that? Absolutely.
Speaker #1: Yeah, it could. But for us, we plan for it because it can really drive some great results. As I look at the OTT market, though, there's a couple of examples now that are really big.
Paul Davis: You know, as I look at the OTT market, though, you know, there, there's, there's a couple of examples now that are really big. One, we did without litigation, you know, Amazon, great result for us. We got done at the end of 2024. One, with litigation, Disney, great result for us at the end of 2025. You know, we can drive really great results with or without litigation, but sometimes, you know, the customers, you know, put you in a position where you need to go down that path. At the end of the day, our IP stands up either way, and we end up, you know, I'm comfortable when we need to go down that path, even though it's not my first preference.
Paul Davis: You know, as I look at the OTT market, though, you know, there, there's, there's a couple of examples now that are really big. One, we did without litigation, you know, Amazon, great result for us. We got done at the end of 2024. One, with litigation, Disney, great result for us at the end of 2025. You know, we can drive really great results with or without litigation, but sometimes, you know, the customers, you know, put you in a position where you need to go down that path. At the end of the day, our IP stands up either way, and we end up, you know, I'm comfortable when we need to go down that path, even though it's not my first preference.
Speaker #1: One, we did without litigation. Amazon great result for us. We got done at the end of 2024. And one, with litigation, Disney. Great result for us at the end of 2025.
Speaker #1: And so, we can drive really great results with or without litigation, but sometimes the customers put you in a position where you need to go down that path.
Speaker #1: But at the end of the day, our IP stands up either way. And we end up—I’m comfortable when we need to go down that path, even though it’s not my first preference.
Speaker #6: Very good. Thanks.
Matthew Galinko: Very good. Thanks.
Matthew Galinko: Very good. Thanks.
Speaker #5: This concludes the question and answer session. I'll turn the call over to CEO Paul Davis for closing remarks.
Operator: This concludes the question and answer session. I'll turn the call to CEO, Paul Davis, for closing remarks.
Operator: This concludes the question and answer session. I'll turn the call to CEO, Paul Davis, for closing remarks.
Speaker #1: Thank you, operator. And thanks to everyone for being with us today.
Paul Davis: Thank you, operator, and thanks for everyone for being with us today.
Paul Davis: Thank you, operator, and thanks for everyone for being with us today.
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.