U-Haul Q3 2026 U-Haul Holding Co Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q3 2026 U-Haul Holding Co Earnings Call
Operator: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to U-Haul Holding Company Third Quarter Fiscal 2026 Investor Conference Call. At this time, all lines are in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. If anyone has any difficulties hearing the conference, please press star zero for operator assistance at any time. I would now like to turn the conference call over to Sebastian Reyes. Please go ahead.
Operator: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to U-Haul Holding Company Third Quarter Fiscal 2026 Investor Conference Call. At this time, all lines are in a listen-only mode. Following the presentation, we will conduct a question and answer session. If anyone has any difficulties hearing the conference, please press star zero for operator assistance at any time. I would now like to turn the conference call over to Sebastien Reyes. Please go ahead.
Speaker #1: gentlemen, and welcome Good morning, ladies and to U-Haul Holding Company third-quarter fiscal 2026 investor conference call. At this time, all lines are in a listen-only mode.
Speaker #1: Following the presentation, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. If anyone has any difficulties hearing the conference, please press star zero for operator assistance at any time. Over to Sebastien Reyes.
Speaker #1: Please go
Speaker #2: Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. Welcome to the U-Haul Holding Company third-quarter 2026 like to remind everyone that certain of the statements during this call, including without investor call.
Sebastien Reyes: Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. Welcome to the U-Haul Holding Company Q3 2026 investor call. Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that certain of the statements during this call, including without limitation, statements regarding revenue, expenses, income, and general growth of our business, may constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor provisions of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended. Forward-looking statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties, some of which cannot be predicted or quantified. Certain factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected.
Sebastien Reyes: Good morning, and thank you for joining us today. Welcome to the U-Haul Holding Company Q3 2026 investor call. Before we begin, I'd like to remind everyone that certain of the statements during this call, including without limitation, statements regarding revenue, expenses, income, and general growth of our business, may constitute forward-looking statements within the meaning of the Safe Harbor provisions of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and Section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended. Forward-looking statements are inherently subject to risks and uncertainties, some of which cannot be predicted or quantified. Certain factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those projected.
Speaker #2: limitations, statements regarding revenue, Before we begin, I'd expenses, income, and general growth of our business, may constitute forward-looking 27A of the Securities Act of 1933, as amended, and section 21E of the Securities Exchange Act of 1934, as amended.
Speaker #2: Statements within the meaning of the safe harbor provisions of Section—forward-looking statements are inherently subject to risk and uncertainties, some of which cannot be predicted or quantified. Certain factors could cause actual results to differ from those projected.
Speaker #2: Statements within the meaning of the safe harbor provisions of Section—forward-looking statements are inherently subject to risk and uncertainties, some of which cannot be predicted or quantified. Certain factors could cause actual results to differ materially from those. For discussion of the risks and uncertainties that may affect the company's business and future operating results, please refer to the company's public SEC filings and Form 10-Q for the quarter ended December 31, 2025, which is on file with the U.S.
Sebastien Reyes: For discussion of the risks and uncertainties that may affect the company's business and future operating results, please refer to the company's public SEC filings and Form 10-Q for the quarter ended December 31, 2025, which is on file with the US Securities and Exchange Commission. I'll now turn the call over to Joe Shoen, Chairman of U-Haul Holding Company.
Sebastien Reyes: For discussion of the risks and uncertainties that may affect the company's business and future operating results, please refer to the company's public SEC filings and Form 10-Q for the quarter ended December 31, 2025, which is on file with the US Securities and Exchange Commission. I'll now turn the call over to Joe Shoen, Chairman of U-Haul Holding Company.
Speaker #2: Securities and Exchange Commission. I'll now turn the call over to Joe Schoen, Chairman of U-Haul Holding Company.
Joe Shoen: Good morning, everybody. As you read in the press release, we continue to have earnings pulled down due to excessive acquisition costs of vans and pickups in model years 2023 and 2024. This has hit earnings hard, and you can see it in increased depreciation and in originally declining gains on sale and now losses on sale of vans and pickups exiting the fleet. To a much lesser extent, the enormous post-COVID price increases on internal combustion engine vehicles is dogging our box trucks with elevated depreciation. We had been accumulating internal combustion engine fleet due to predicted declines in availability of ICE-powered units going ahead. Now we are too heavy in fleet, and the rental market is not responding with significant transaction increases. We are working a plan to open more U-Haul dealership locations, which will put some of this excess fleet to work while earning a return.
Joe Shoen: Good morning, everybody. As you read in the press release, we continue to have earnings pulled down due to excessive acquisition costs of vans and pickups in model years 2023 and 2024. This has hit earnings hard, and you can see it in increased depreciation and in originally declining gains on sale and now losses on sale of vans and pickups exiting the fleet. To a much lesser extent, the enormous post-COVID price increases on internal combustion engine vehicles is dogging our box trucks with elevated depreciation. We had been accumulating internal combustion engine fleet due to predicted declines in availability of ICE-powered units going ahead. Now we are too heavy in fleet, and the rental market is not responding with significant transaction increases.
Speaker #3: everybody. As you read Good morning, in the press release, we continue to have earnings pulled down due to excessive acquisition costs of Vans and pickups in model years '23 '24.
Speaker #3: This has hit earnings hard, and you can see it in increased and in originally declining gains on sale and now pickups. Exiting the losses on sale, of Vans and fleet.
Speaker #3: To a much lesser extent, the enormous post-COVID price increases on internal combustion engine vehicles is dogging our box trucks with depreciation, elevated depreciation. We had been accumulating internal combustion engine fleet due to predicted declines in availability of ice-powered units going ahead.
Speaker #3: Now we are too heavy in fleet and the rental market is not responding with significant transaction increases. We are dealership locations, which will put some working a plan to open more U-Haul of this excess fleet to work.
Joe Shoen: We are working a plan to open more U-Haul dealership locations, which will put some of this excess fleet to work while earning a return. We will likely still be over-fleeted, so we will need to increase sales of older, higher-mileage trucks over the next 12 months. As best as I can tell, we are holding our own and then some in the self-storage industry. For nearly 24 months, we have been adding units faster than we are renting them up. This results in a surplus of unrented units. We're launching some initiatives intended to improve our rate of units rented over the prior year, the proof will be in the pudding, and we'll see how that develops going into summer. We now have a significant U-Box presence at over 700 locations in North America.
Speaker #3: While earning a return. We will likely still be overfleeted, so we will need to higher-mileage trucks over the next increase sales of older 12 months.
Joe Shoen: We will likely still be over-fleeted, so we will need to increase sales of older, higher-mileage trucks over the next 12 months. As best as I can tell, we are holding our own and then some in the self-storage industry. For nearly 24 months, we have been adding units faster than we are renting them up. This results in a surplus of unrented units. We're launching some initiatives intended to improve our rate of units rented over the prior year, the proof will be in the pudding, and we'll see how that develops going into summer. We now have a significant U-Box presence at over 700 locations in North America. By that, I mean a significant warehouse and depot operation. This increases our capacity and the absolute number.
Speaker #3: As best as I can tell, we are holding our own and then some in the self-storage industry. For nearly faster than we are renting them up.
Speaker #3: This results in a surplus of unrented 24 months, we have been adding units units. We're launching some initiatives intended to improve our rate of units rented over the year.
Speaker #3: The proof will be in the pudding, and we'll see how that prior develops going into summer. We now have a significant 700 locations in North America.
Speaker #3: By that, I mean a significant warehouse U-Box presence at over operation. This increases our capacity and the absolute number will, to the extent that U-Box is self-storage, U-Box is both moving and storage, but one component of it is storage.
Joe Shoen: By that, I mean a significant warehouse and depot operation. This increases our capacity and the absolute number. Well, to the extent that U-Box is self-storage, U-Box is both moving and storage, but one component of it is storage. To the extent U-Box is self-storage, this increases our capacity and absolute number of self-storage customers. We have over 200,000 U-Box containers in service and over 100,000 of them in the hands of customers. We have slowed our rate of adding U-Box warehouses as we have a workable presence in most markets. However, in DC, LA, Boston, New York City, and the Bay Area, we are still underserved. In Canada, we are still light on U-Box capacity in Vancouver Island and Edmonton.
Joe Shoen: Well, to the extent that U-Box is self-storage, U-Box is both moving and storage, but one component of it is storage. To the extent U-Box is self-storage, this increases our capacity and absolute number of self-storage customers. We have over 200,000 U-Box containers in service and over 100,000 of them in the hands of customers. We have slowed our rate of adding U-Box warehouses as we have a workable presence in most markets. However, in DC, LA, Boston, New York City, and the Bay Area, we are still underserved. In Canada, we are still light on U-Box capacity in Vancouver Island and Edmonton. We have projects in planning or in construction in all of these markets, and I plan to carry through on these capital expenditures. We continue to heavily invest in digital tools to meet what customers expect from the industry leader.
Speaker #3: To the extent U-Box is self-storage, this increases our capacity and absolute number of self-storage customers. We have over 200,000 U-Box containers in service, and over 100,000 of them in the hands of customers.
Speaker #3: We have slowed our rate of adding U-Box warehouses as we have a workable presence in most markets. However, in DC, LA, Boston, New York City, and the Bay Area, we are still underserved.
Speaker #3: In Canada, we are still light on U-Box capacity in Vancouver Island and Edmonton. We have projects in planning or in construction in all of these markets, and I plan to carry through on these capital expenditures.
Joe Shoen: We have projects in planning or in construction in all of these markets, and I plan to carry through on these capital expenditures. We continue to heavily invest in digital tools to meet what customers expect from the industry leader. Most of this investment is expensed in the current period. With that, I'll turn it back to you, Jason.
Speaker #3: We continue to heavily invest in digital tools to meet what customers expect from the industry leader. Most of this investment is expensed in the current period.
Joe Shoen: Most of this investment is expensed in the current period. With that, I'll turn it back to you, Jason.
Speaker #3: With that, I'll turn it back to
Speaker #3: Jason.
Speaker #2: Thanks,
Speaker #2: Joe. Yesterday, we reported third-quarter losses of $37 million. Compared to earnings of $67 million, for the same quarter of 18 cents per non-voting share last year.
Jason Berg: Thanks, Joe. Yesterday, we reported Q3 losses of $37 million compared to earnings of $67 million for the same quarter last year. So that's a loss of $0.18 per Non-Voting Share this quarter, compared to earnings of $0.35 per Non-Voting Share in the Q3 of last year. Earnings before interest, taxes, and depreciation, what we're calling Adjusted EBITDA, at our moving and storage segment decreased 11% or nearly $42 million for the quarter. On a percentage basis, that's about the same decrease that we saw in operating cash flows for the quarter as well. Included in our release and financial supplement is a reconciliation of Adjusted EBITDA to GAAP earnings. Depreciation and losses from the disposal of rental units continue to be a significant earnings headwind.
Jason Berg: Thanks, Joe. Yesterday, we reported Q3 losses of $37 million compared to earnings of $67 million for the same quarter last year. So that's a loss of $0.18 per Non-Voting Share this quarter, compared to earnings of $0.35 per Non-Voting Share in the Q3 of last year. Earnings before interest, taxes, and depreciation, what we're calling Adjusted EBITDA, at our moving and storage segment decreased 11% or nearly $42 million for the quarter. On a percentage basis, that's about the same decrease that we saw in operating cash flows for the quarter as well. Included in our release and financial supplement is a reconciliation of Adjusted EBITDA to GAAP earnings. Depreciation and losses from the disposal of rental units continue to be a significant earnings headwind.
Speaker #2: this quarter, compared to earnings of So that's a loss $35 cents per non-voting share in the third quarter of last year. Earnings before interest, taxes, and EBITDA, and are moving in storage segment decreased 11% or nearly 42 million dollars for the quarter.
Speaker #2: On a percentage basis, that's about the same decrease that we depreciation, what we're calling adjusted saw in operating cash flows for the quarter as well.
Speaker #2: Our release and financial supplement is included in the reconciliation of adjusted EBITDA to GAAP earnings. Depreciation and losses from the disposal of rental units continue to be a significant earnings headwind.
Speaker #2: During the third quarter of this year, we reported a 26 million dollar loss on the disposal of retired rental equipment, compared to a 4 million dollar gain in last year's quarter.
Jason Berg: During Q3 of this year, we reported a $26 million loss on the disposal of retired rental equipment, compared to a $4 million gain in last year's quarter. Cargo vans that we purchased over the previous two model years, that are now being sold, came into the fleet with a higher cost, and the current market resale values have not been reflecting that, thus resulting in this loss. We've also increased the pace of depreciation on the remaining units to reflect that new reality. On top of this, we have depreciation from increasing the size of the box truck fleet by nearly 11,000 units compared to December of last year. Between fleet depreciation and the loss on disposal, we experienced a $75 million cost increase for this quarter compared to the same time last year.
Jason Berg: During Q3 of this year, we reported a $26 million loss on the disposal of retired rental equipment, compared to a $4 million gain in last year's quarter. Cargo vans that we purchased over the previous two model years, that are now being sold, came into the fleet with a higher cost, and the current market resale values have not been reflecting that, thus resulting in this loss. We've also increased the pace of depreciation on the remaining units to reflect that new reality. On top of this, we have depreciation from increasing the size of the box truck fleet by nearly 11,000 units compared to December of last year. Between fleet depreciation and the loss on disposal, we experienced a $75 million cost increase for this quarter compared to the same time last year.
Speaker #2: Cargo vans that we purchased over the previous two model years that are now being sold came into the fleet with a higher cost, and the current market resale values have not been reflecting that.
Speaker #2: That's resulting in this loss. We've also increased the pace of depreciation on the remaining units to reflect that new from increasing the size of the box truck fleet by nearly 11,000 year.
Speaker #2: Between fleet units compared to December of last depreciation and the loss on disposal, we increase for this quarter compared to the same time last year.
Speaker #2: Translated into non-voting share EPS, that's approximately 24 cents a share. Over three quarters of this negative variance is related to our cargo van fleet.
Jason Berg: Translated into non-voting share EPS, that's approximately $0.24 a share. Over 3/4 of this negative variance is related to our cargo van fleet. Looking towards the future, the model year 2026 cargo van purchases that will be coming on the books this year are going to be at an average cost about 12% lower than last year's model year, and if you compare them to two years ago, about 20% lower. For the third quarter, our equipment rental revenues results increased $8 million at just under 1% compared to the same time the year before, the majority coming from in-town portion of our business.
Jason Berg: Translated into non-voting share EPS, that's approximately $0.24 a share. Over 3/4 of this negative variance is related to our cargo van fleet. Looking towards the future, the model year 2026 cargo van purchases that will be coming on the books this year are going to be at an average cost about 12% lower than last year's model year, and if you compare them to two years ago, about 20% lower. For the third quarter, our equipment rental revenues results increased $8 million at just under 1% compared to the same time the year before, the majority coming from in-town portion of our business.
Speaker #2: Looking towards the future, the model year 2026 cargo van purchases that will be coming on the books this year are going to be at an average cost of about about 12% lower than last year's model year, and if you compare them to the two years ago, about 20% lower.
Speaker #2: For the third quarter, our equipment rental revenues result increased $8 million at just under 1% compared to the same time the year before. The majority coming from the in-town portion of our business.
Speaker #2: Comparing the end-of-December 2025 to the same time in 2024, we added 65 new increase of 365 company-operated locations, and we had a net dealers.
Jason Berg: Comparing the end of December 2025 to the same time in 2024, we added 65 new company-operated locations, and we had a net increase of 365 independent dealers. These, these new locations, as Joe mentioned, are expected to help us better distribute the larger fleet and increase transactions. For January, our results were trending quite positive prior to the onset of the significant weather activity that hit much of the country, which has certainly slowed the improvement over the last week and a half or so. Capital expenditures for new rental equipment in the first nine months of this year were $1,748 million. It's a $162 million increase compared to the same nine-month period last year.
Jason Berg: Comparing the end of December 2025 to the same time in 2024, we added 65 new company-operated locations, and we had a net increase of 365 independent dealers. These, these new locations, as Joe mentioned, are expected to help us better distribute the larger fleet and increase transactions. For January, our results were trending quite positive prior to the onset of the significant weather activity that hit much of the country, which has certainly slowed the improvement over the last week and a half or so. Capital expenditures for new rental equipment in the first nine months of this year were $1,748 million. It's a $162 million increase compared to the same nine-month period last year.
Speaker #2: These new locations, as Joe mentioned, are expected to help us better distribute the larger fleet and increase transactions. For January, our results were trending quite positive prior to the onset of the significant weather activity that hit much of the country, was certainly slowed the improvement over the last week and a half or so.
Speaker #2: Capital expenditures for new rental equipment in the first nine months of this year were a billion 748 million. That's 162 million dollar increase compared to the nine months same nine-month period last year.
Speaker #2: Looking at the last 12 months, so that would be the calendar year of 2025, our gross fleet spend was approximately 2 billion 25 million.
Jason Berg: Looking at the last twelve months, so that would be the calendar year of 2025, our gross fleet spend was approximately $2.025 billion. If you net out equipment sales, we got down to $1.331 billion.... I'm estimating close to $670 million of that growth spend was growth-related. Initial estimates for next fiscal year are showing a decrease in new truck purchases somewhere north of $500 million. Storage revenues were up $18 million or 8% for the quarter. Average revenue per foot continued to improve across the entire portfolio by just under 7%, while the same store revenue per occupied foot was up 5%, reflecting the cumulative effects of our rate increase activity. Our strategy of straightforward pricing with the customer and avoiding the large introductory discounts continues.
Jason Berg: Looking at the last twelve months, so that would be the calendar year of 2025, our gross fleet spend was approximately $2.025 billion. If you net out equipment sales, we got down to $1.331 billion.... I'm estimating close to $670 million of that growth spend was growth-related. Initial estimates for next fiscal year are showing a decrease in new truck purchases somewhere north of $500 million. Storage revenues were up $18 million or 8% for the quarter. Average revenue per foot continued to improve across the entire portfolio by just under 7%, while the same store revenue per occupied foot was up 5%, reflecting the cumulative effects of our rate increase activity. Our strategy of straightforward pricing with the customer and avoiding the large introductory discounts continues.
Speaker #2: If you net out equipment sales, we got down to a billion 331 million. I'm estimating close to 670 million of that growth of that gross spend was growth-related.
Speaker #2: Initial estimates for next fiscal year are showing a decrease in new truck purchases somewhere north of 500 million dollars. Storage revenues were up 18 million or 8% for the quarter.
Speaker #2: Average revenue per foot continued to improve across the 7%. While the same occupied foot was up 5%, stored revenue per reflecting the cumulative effects of our rate increase activity.
Speaker #2: Our strategy of straightforward pricing with the customer and avoiding the large introductory discounts continues. Our same store occupancy decreased 490 basis points to just over 87%.
Jason Berg: Our same-store occupancy decreased 490 basis points to just over 87%. I mentioned in our last earnings call that in July, we took on an effort system-wide to increase the number of available units at existing facilities by focusing on delinquent units. This effort did not affect revenue because we don't record storage revenue until we collect it, but it has had an effect on our reported occupancy levels. So of that, almost 5% decrease in same-store occupancy, close to 4% of that was related to the removal of delinquent rooms. Net tenant move-ins year over year, so comparing end of December this year versus last year, while slower than in recent years, has picked up compared to where we were last year, adjusted for the delinquent units.
Jason Berg: Our same-store occupancy decreased 490 basis points to just over 87%. I mentioned in our last earnings call that in July, we took on an effort system-wide to increase the number of available units at existing facilities by focusing on delinquent units. This effort did not affect revenue because we don't record storage revenue until we collect it, but it has had an effect on our reported occupancy levels. So of that, almost 5% decrease in same-store occupancy, close to 4% of that was related to the removal of delinquent rooms. Net tenant move-ins year over year, so comparing end of December this year versus last year, while slower than in recent years, has picked up compared to where we were last year, adjusted for the delinquent units.
Speaker #2: I mentioned in our last earnings call that in July, entire portfolio by just under we took on an effort system-wide to increase the number of available units at existing facilities by focusing on delinquent units.
Speaker #2: This effort did not affect revenue because we don't record storage revenue until we collect it, but it has had an effect on our reported occupancy level.
Speaker #2: So of that, almost 5% decrease in same store the removal of delinquent rooms. Net tenant move-ins year over year, occupancy close to 4% of that was related to so comparing end-of-December of this year versus last year, was slower than in recent years, has picked up compared to where we were last year, adjusted for the delinquent units.
Speaker #2: During the first nine months of fiscal 2026, we invested $770 million in real estate acquisitions along self-storage and U-Box, with the development of new warehouse space.
Jason Berg: During the first nine months of fiscal 2026, we invested $770 million in real estate acquisitions, along with the development of new self-storage and U-Box warehouse space. That's a $444 million decrease over the first nine months of fiscal 2025. During the third quarter, we added 16 new locations with storage. That translates to about 1.5 million new net rentable square feet. Our development pipeline now is down to active development of 106 projects. That should result in somewhere around 5.7 million new net rentable square feet. Moving and storage operating expenses were up $66 million for the third quarter. As a percent of revenue, we certainly took a step back from the progress that we made last quarter.
Jason Berg: During the first nine months of fiscal 2026, we invested $770 million in real estate acquisitions, along with the development of new self-storage and U-Box warehouse space. That's a $444 million decrease over the first nine months of fiscal 2025. During the third quarter, we added 16 new locations with storage. That translates to about 1.5 million new net rentable square feet. Our development pipeline now is down to active development of 106 projects. That should result in somewhere around 5.7 million new net rentable square feet. Moving and storage operating expenses were up $66 million for the third quarter. As a percent of revenue, we certainly took a step back from the progress that we made last quarter.
Speaker #2: That's a 440 million dollar decrease over the first nine months of fiscal 2025. During the third quarter, we added 16 new locations with storage, translates to about one and a half million new net rentable square feet.
Speaker #2: Our development pipeline now is down to an active development is down to 106 projects that should result in somewhere around 5.7 million new net rentable square feet.
Speaker #2: Moving into storage operating expenses, we're up 66 million dollars for the third quarter. As a percent of revenue, we certainly took a step back from the progress that we made last quarter.
Speaker #2: First, personnel costs were up 16 million dollars and fleet maintenance and repair were up 13 million dollars. But really, the unusual increase and the largest component that we had was related to our self-insurance liability costs, and they were up 38 million dollars.
Jason Berg: First, personnel costs were up $16 million, and fleet maintenance and repair were up $13 million. But really, the unusual increase in the largest component that we had was related to our self-insurance liability costs, and they were up $38 million, with the majority of that being in the form of reserve strengthening. We've made progress on this front, increasing our liability by nearly $79 million since March 2025. In December, our property and casualty insurance companies paid U-Haul Holding Company's parent a $100 million dividend, as we're taking steps to reallocate capital amongst some of our subsidiaries. This $100 million is now available for general U-Haul corporate use.
Jason Berg: First, personnel costs were up $16 million, and fleet maintenance and repair were up $13 million. But really, the unusual increase in the largest component that we had was related to our self-insurance liability costs, and they were up $38 million, with the majority of that being in the form of reserve strengthening. We've made progress on this front, increasing our liability by nearly $79 million since March 2025. In December, our property and casualty insurance companies paid U-Haul Holding Company's parent a $100 million dividend, as we're taking steps to reallocate capital amongst some of our subsidiaries. This $100 million is now available for general U-Haul corporate use.
Speaker #2: With the majority of that being in the form of reserve strengthening. We've made progress on this front, increasing our liability by nearly 79 million dollars since March of 2025.
Speaker #2: In December, our property and casualty insurance companies paid U-Haul Holding Company as parent 100 million dollar dividend as we're taking steps to reallocate capital amongst some of our subsidiaries.
Speaker #2: This 100 million dollars is now available for general U-Haul corporate use. As 2025, cash along with availability from existing loan facilities at our moving and storage segment totaled a billion 475 million.
Jason Berg: As of December 2025, cash, along with availability from existing loan facilities at our move-in and storage segment, totaled $1.475 billion. I'd like to remind everyone that we have a supplemental financial information exhibit that's available on our homepage, investors.uhaul.com, under Investor Kit. With that, I'd like to hand the call back to Jenny, as we have Joe, Sam, Sean, and myself here to answer questions.
Jason Berg: As of December 2025, cash, along with availability from existing loan facilities at our move-in and storage segment, totaled $1.475 billion. I'd like to remind everyone that we have a supplemental financial information exhibit that's available on our homepage, investors.uhaul.com, under Investor Kit. With that, I'd like to hand the call back to Jenny, as we have Joe, Sam, Sean, and myself here to answer questions.
Speaker #2: I'd like to remind everyone that we have a supplemental financial information exhibit that's available on our homepage, investors.uhall.com, under Investor Kit. With that, I'd like to hand the call back to Jenny, as we have Joe, Sam Schoen, and myself here to answer.
Speaker #2: questions.
Speaker #1: Thank
Operator: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you have a question, please press the star followed by the one on your touchtone phone. Should you wish to cancel your request, please press the star followed by the two. If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. Once again, that is star one should you wish to ask a question. Your first question is from Steven Ralston from Zacks. Your line is now open.
Operator: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. We will now begin the question and answer session. If you have a question, please press the star followed by the one on your touchtone phone. Should you wish to cancel your request, please press the star followed by the two. If you are using a speakerphone, please lift the handset before pressing any keys. Once again, that is star one should you wish to ask a question. Your first question is from Steven Ralston from Zacks. Your line is now open.
Speaker #1: Now, we will begin the question and answer session. If you have a question, ladies and gentlemen, please press the star key followed by the one on your touchtone phone.
Speaker #1: Should you wish to cancel your request, please press the star followed by the two. If you are using a speakerphone, please lift a handset before pressing any case.
Speaker #1: Once again, that is star one. Should you wish to ask a question, your first question is from Stephen Ralston from Zapp. Your line is now
Speaker #1: open. Good
Speaker #2: morning. Good morning.
Steven Ralston: Good morning.
Steven Ralston: Good morning.
Speaker #4: Good morning.
Jason Berg: Morning.
Jason Berg: Morning.
Joe Shoen: Good morning.
Joe Shoen: Good morning.
Steven Ralston: Taking into account that seasonally, this is the second weakest quarter in your year, there seem to be some pressures in the one-way market, in the self-moving equipment area, and also in the U-Box program. Could you discuss that? And also, does that indicate there is some sort of that the U-Box market sort of tracks the one-way market, one-way rental market?
Speaker #2: Taking into account that seasonally this is the second weakest quarter in your year, there seemed to be some pressures in the one-way market in the self-moving equipment area and also in the U-Box program.
Steven Ralston: Taking into account that seasonally, this is the second weakest quarter in your year, there seem to be some pressures in the one-way market, in the self-moving equipment area, and also in the U-Box program. Could you discuss that? And also, does that indicate there is some sort of that the U-Box market sort of tracks the one-way market, one-way rental market?
Speaker #2: Could you discuss that and also does that indicate there's some sort of that the U-Box market sort of tracks the one-way market, one-way rental market?
Speaker #4: I'll start on that. I mentioned this last conference call. What we've seen over decades is, when consumers get anxious, they shorten the distance of a transaction.
Joe Shoen: I'll start on that. As I mentioned this last conference call, what we've seen over decades is when consumers get anxious, they shorten the distance of a transaction. So instead of moving, relocating to Denver, they go to a suburb of their existing town. They still move for a variety of reasons, which is basic underlying demand, but they move shorter distances, and sometimes that turns a one-way transaction into a local transaction. So there's... So U-Box, and I'll let Sam elaborate on this. U-Box, we've had our greatest success with long-distance transactions. So to the extent that it tracks U-Haul, it will kind of track it in. U-Box will track it, but maybe a little more... exaggerated as a percentage of business.
Joe Shoen: I'll start on that. As I mentioned this last conference call, what we've seen over decades is when consumers get anxious, they shorten the distance of a transaction. So instead of moving, relocating to Denver, they go to a suburb of their existing town. They still move for a variety of reasons, which is basic underlying demand, but they move shorter distances, and sometimes that turns a one-way transaction into a local transaction. So there's... So U-Box, and I'll let Sam elaborate on this. U-Box, we've had our greatest success with long-distance transactions. So to the extent that it tracks U-Haul, it will kind of track it in. U-Box will track it, but maybe a little more... exaggerated as a percentage of business.
Speaker #4: So instead of moving relocating to Denver, they go to a suburb of their existing town. They still move for a variety of reasons, which but they move shorter distances.
Speaker #4: And sometimes that turns a one-way transaction into a local is basic underlying demand, transaction. So there's so U-Box and I'll let Sam elaborate on this.
Speaker #4: U-Box, we've had our greatest success with long-distance transactions. So to the extent that it tracks U-Haul, it will kind of track it in U-Box will track it, but maybe a little more exaggerated as a percentage of business.
Speaker #3: Right. Yeah. Steven, that's a great question. I think this is getting to kind of what you're U-Box operates asking. in almost primarily in what you move considers the long zones.
Samuel Shoen: Right. Yeah, Steven, that's a great question. I think this is getting to kind of what you're asking. U-Box operates in almost primarily in what U-Move considers the long zones. So for rental trucks, what might be a 20% of our one-way business in the long zones, for U-Box, might be 80%. And so I think the question you asked was, does U-Box track the one-way moving market? Certainly, in that way, it does. And then, of course, as we have distribution, you know, as we're using rate to control distribution, now we're pricing U-Haul trucks in a certain way, and our customers are seeing that and getting to incorporate that into their choice. So I think the short answer to your question is yes.
Jason Berg: Right. Yeah, Steven, that's a great question. I think this is getting to kind of what you're asking. U-Box operates in almost primarily in what U-Move considers the long zones. So for rental trucks, what might be a 20% of our one-way business in the long zones, for U-Box, might be 80%. And so I think the question you asked was, does U-Box track the one-way moving market? Certainly, in that way, it does. And then, of course, as we have distribution, you know, as we're using rate to control distribution, now we're pricing U-Haul trucks in a certain way, and our customers are seeing that and getting to incorporate that into their choice. So I think the short answer to your question is yes.
Speaker #3: So for rental trucks, what might be a 20% of our one-way business in the long zones for U-Box might be 80%. And so I think the question you asked was, does U-Box track the one-way moving market?
Speaker #3: Certainly, in that course, as we have distribution, as we're using rate to control distribution, now we're pricing U-Haul trucks in a certain way in order to incorporate that into their choice.
Speaker #3: So I think the short answer to your question is
Speaker #2: Thank
Speaker #2: You've discussed the, yes, depreciation line a great deal, and I think I'm missing something because—I just—could you please explain it? Depreciation is up dramatically, but sequentially, from the second fiscal quarter to the third fiscal quarter, depreciation actually went down.
Steven Ralston: Thank you. You've discussed the depreciation line a great deal, and I think I'm missing something because I just... Could you please explain it? Depreciation, you know, is up dramatically, but sequentially, from Q2 to Q3, depreciation actually went down. What, what's happening on an accounting basis on that?
Steven Ralston: Thank you. You've discussed the depreciation line a great deal, and I think I'm missing something because I just... Could you please explain it? Depreciation, you know, is up dramatically, but sequentially, from Q2 to Q3, depreciation actually went down. What, what's happening on an accounting basis on that?
Speaker #2: What's happening on an accounting basis on that?
Speaker #3: So this is Jason. A couple of things going on. First, the depreciation of the is a dynamic depreciation where every time a truck passes its one-year anniversary, the depreciation rate steps down on it, right?
Jason Berg: So, this is Jason. A couple of things going on. First, the depreciation of the box truck fleet is, it's a dynamic depreciation, where every time a truck passes its one-year anniversary, the depreciation rate steps down on it, right? So the first year that we buy a box truck, we charge off 16% of the cost, the second year it's 13%, and that keeps going down. So if we don't do anything, the depreciation on the box truck fleet will gradually just continue to step down. The second part of that is on our pickup and cargo van fleet, which is, it's a smaller fleet. We hold-
Jason Berg: So, this is Jason. A couple of things going on. First, the depreciation of the box truck fleet is, it's a dynamic depreciation, where every time a truck passes its one-year anniversary, the depreciation rate steps down on it, right? So the first year that we buy a box truck, we charge off 16% of the cost, the second year it's 13%, and that keeps going down. So if we don't do anything, the depreciation on the box truck fleet will gradually just continue to step down. The second part of that is on our pickup and cargo van fleet, which is, it's a smaller fleet. We hold-
Speaker #3: So the first year that we buy a box truck, we charge off 16% of the cost. The second year, it's 13%. And that keeps going down.
Speaker #3: do anything, the So if we don't depreciation on the box truck fleet will gradually just continue to step that is on our pickup and cargo van fleet, which down.
Speaker #3: is a it's a smaller fleet. We hold.
Speaker #2: data. It's a shorter live data, Live
Steven Ralston: It's a live asset. It's a shorter live asset, right?
Steven Ralston: It's a live asset. It's a shorter live asset, right?
Speaker #2: right?
Speaker #3: Yeah. Exactly. We hold it a shorter The second part of period, and those depreciation rates were adjusting from quarter to quarter based upon what we see in the resale market.
Jason Berg: Yeah, exactly. We hold it a shorter period, and those depreciation rates, we're adjusting from quarter to quarter based upon what we see in the resale market. And as we've essentially almost finished selling through the model year 2023 units, now we're onto the 2024, and so we're... That depreciation number is getting adjusted from quarter to quarter.
Jason Berg: Yeah, exactly. We hold it a shorter period, and those depreciation rates, we're adjusting from quarter to quarter based upon what we see in the resale market. And as we've essentially almost finished selling through the model year 2023 units, now we're onto the 2024, and so we're... That depreciation number is getting adjusted from quarter to quarter.
Speaker #3: And as we've essentially almost finished selling through the model year '23 units, now we're onto the '24. And so we're that depreciation number is getting adjusted from quarter to
Speaker #3: quarter. All
Steven Ralston: All right. Yes. Thank you for that explanation and for taking my questions.
Steven Ralston: All right. Yes. Thank you for that explanation and for taking my questions.
Speaker #2: explanation. And for taking my right. Yes. Thank you for that questions.
Jason Berg: You're welcome.
Jason Berg: You're welcome.
Speaker #1: Thank you. Your next question
Operator: Thank you. Your next question is from Steven Ramsey, from Thompson Research Group. Your line is now open.
Operator: Thank you. Your next question is from Steven Ramsey, from Thompson Research Group. Your line is now open.
Speaker #1: is from Stephen Ramsey from welcome. Thomson Research Group. Your line is now open.
Speaker #5: Everyone, maybe to start with—hi, good morning. At every level, for your business, you've continued to invest and grow in all areas of the business in a time of subdued activity.
Steven Ramsey: Hi, good morning, everyone. Maybe to start with, wanted to think about from the high level for your business, you've continued to invest in growth in all areas of the business in a time of subdued activity. If you think about moving competitors against you in the traditional moving and U-Box space, have you seen capacity reductions from peers? Or another angle maybe is, how you're expanding in the dealer space, to position you to perform well now and perform much better on the other side of this?
Steven Ramsey: Hi, good morning, everyone. Maybe to start with, wanted to think about from the high level for your business, you've continued to invest in growth in all areas of the business in a time of subdued activity. If you think about moving competitors against you in the traditional moving and U-Box space, have you seen capacity reductions from peers? Or another angle maybe is, how you're expanding in the dealer space, to position you to perform well now and perform much better on the other side of this?
Speaker #5: If you think about moving competitors against you in the traditional moving and U-Box space, have you seen capacity reductions from peers or another angle maybe is how you're expanding in the dealer space?
Speaker #5: To position you to perform well now and perform much better on the other side of this?
Speaker #4: I'll answer that. Yes, on both moving fleet and locations. The numbers aren't hard. I can't give you a hard number of what, let's say, how many outlets Penske or Budget has, but we have a bunch of other indicators.
Joe Shoen: I'll answer that. Yes, on both moving fleet and locations. The numbers aren't hard. I can't give you a hard number of what, let's say, how many outlets Penske or Budget has, but we have a bunch of other indicators we, you know, get from various industry sources, that causes us to be fairly confident they're both reducing fleet and reducing outlets. So that should we see an upturn or should we get a... Another way to put it, should we do a better job of understanding and satisfying customer needs, we'll be in a position to fill that demand, and that's the way I look at it a lot more in where have we failed to appreciate what our customer needs.
Joe Shoen: I'll answer that. Yes, on both moving fleet and locations. The numbers aren't hard. I can't give you a hard number of what, let's say, how many outlets Penske or Budget has, but we have a bunch of other indicators we, you know, get from various industry sources, that causes us to be fairly confident they're both reducing fleet and reducing outlets. So that should we see an upturn or should we get a... Another way to put it, should we do a better job of understanding and satisfying customer needs, we'll be in a position to fill that demand, and that's the way I look at it a lot more in where have we failed to appreciate what our customer needs.
Speaker #4: We've got from various industry sources. The causes us to be fairly confident they're both reducing outlets. So that should we see an upturn or should we get a another way to put fleet and reducing it, should we do a better job of understanding and satisfying customer needs, we'll be in a position to fill that demand.
Speaker #4: And that's the way I look at it a lot more in where have we failed to appreciate what our customer needs? And if we will find that failure and remedy it, the customer will reward us with more transactions.
Joe Shoen: If we will find that failure and remedy it, the customer will reward us with more transactions, and we'll be in a better position. We'll have more outlets, and convenience is kind of part of our overall strategy. So we're far and away. Just for talking points, let's say Budget has 3,000 outlets and Penske has 3,500, but we're sitting with 24,000 and change. So as far as customer accessibility, we just dominate, and that's part of our strategy. It's a judgment how far to push that. Frankly, it's not an algorithm. Maybe there is, but it isn't one that we have a math problem that solves that algorithm. So one other thing that you don't see, Jason, that this, I don't think we really talked about is inside our fleet isn't homogeneous; it isn't one number.
Joe Shoen: If we will find that failure and remedy it, the customer will reward us with more transactions, and we'll be in a better position. We'll have more outlets, and convenience is kind of part of our overall strategy. So we're far and away. Just for talking points, let's say Budget has 3,000 outlets and Penske has 3,500, but we're sitting with 24,000 and change. So as far as customer accessibility, we just dominate, and that's part of our strategy. It's a judgment how far to push that. Frankly, it's not an algorithm. Maybe there is, but it isn't one that we have a math problem that solves that algorithm. So one other thing that you don't see, Steven, that this, I don't think we really talked about is inside our fleet isn't homogeneous; it isn't one number.
Speaker #4: And we'll be in a better position. We'll have more outlets and conveniences kind of part of our overall strategy. So we're far and away just for talking points, let's outlets and Penske has 3,500.
Speaker #4: Well, we're sitting with 24,000 and change. So as far as customer accessibility, it just we dominate. And that's part of our strategy. It's a judgment how far to push that.
Speaker #4: Frankly, it's not an algorithm. And maybe there is, but it isn't one that we have a map problem that solves that So one other thing that you don't see, algorithm.
Speaker #4: and Jason did, I don't think it really talked about, is inside our fleet isn't homogenous. It isn't one number. So when he says we have 100 and X box trucks, well, the size of those and the age matters.
Joe Shoen: So when he says we have 100 next box trucks, well, the size of those and the age matters when you're trying to manage the whole fleet. So we have been playing catch up to massive disruptions in the supply chain caused by both COVID and the government's insistence on electrification... curing those takes a while. You can cure it in the pickup and van fleet, maybe in 24 months, because you rotate that fleet. In our box truck fleet, it's at least an 8-year opportunity. So sometimes we're buying a little more trucks than we need, because we need a certain size truck, or that truck is now available, and it wasn't available before.
Joe Shoen: So when he says we have 100 next box trucks, well, the size of those and the age matters when you're trying to manage the whole fleet. So we have been playing catch up to massive disruptions in the supply chain caused by both COVID and the government's insistence on electrification... curing those takes a while. You can cure it in the pickup and van fleet, maybe in 24 months, because you rotate that fleet. In our box truck fleet, it's at least an 8-year opportunity. So sometimes we're buying a little more trucks than we need, because we need a certain size truck, or that truck is now available, and it wasn't available before.
Speaker #4: When you're trying to manage the whole fleet, so we have been playing catch up to massive disruptions in the supply chain caused by both COVID and the government's insistence on electrification.
Speaker #4: it in the pickup and van fleet maybe in Curing 24 months because you rotate that fleet. And our box truck fleet is at least an eight-year opportunity.
Speaker #4: So sometimes we're buying a little more trucks than we or that truck is now available and it wasn't available before. So there's a bunch of adjustments inside of the big number.
Joe Shoen: So there's a bunch of adjustments inside of the big number, and if you went back to, let's say, 2016, we had it at that point, the best I've ever had it in my life. We had tuned that pretty good, and that falls through as profitability. So as we get this fleet rebalanced, and I wish I could tell you a date, of course, I'm trying to give my own self a date as to when that will be back in balance. I don't know. We've had. You've heard me bellyache about the administration and the drive towards electrification. You see, that really caused the manufacturers to do two things. One, they increased the price massively. I'm talking 30% and 50% price increases, and two, they allocated vehicles. We couldn't get the model we want and the quantity we want.
Joe Shoen: So there's a bunch of adjustments inside of the big number, and if you went back to, let's say, 2016, we had it at that point, the best I've ever had it in my life. We had tuned that pretty good, and that falls through as profitability. So as we get this fleet rebalanced, and I wish I could tell you a date, of course, I'm trying to give my own self a date as to when that will be back in balance. I don't know. We've had. You've heard me bellyache about the administration and the drive towards electrification. You see, that really caused the manufacturers to do two things. One, they increased the price massively. I'm talking 30% and 50% price increases, and two, they allocated vehicles. We couldn't get the model we want and the quantity we want.
Speaker #4: And if you went back to, let's say, 2016, we had it at that point, the best I've ever had it in my life. We had tuned that pretty good.
Speaker #4: And that falls through as profitability. So as we get this fleet rebalanced, and I wish I could tell you give my own self a date, as to when that will be back in balance.
Speaker #4: I don't know. We've had you've heard me bellyache about the administration and the drive towards electrification. You see that really caused the manufacturers to do two things.
Speaker #4: One, they increased the price massively. I'm talking 30 and 50 percent price increases. And two, they allocated vehicles. We couldn't get the model we want in the quantity we want.
Speaker #4: We had to take what their supply chain was able to produce. And this caused disruption in the age and size of our trucks. And we're working very hard to—year, the year we're just kind of finishing—we bought, very arguably, a little more vehicles than is reasonable, but if you get into the details, it balanced back out.
Joe Shoen: We had to take what their supply chain was able to produce, and this caused disruption in the age and size of our trucks, and we're working very hard to remedy that. And you see this year, the year we're just kind of finishing, we bought very arguably a little more vehicles than is reasonable, but if you get into the details, you would see we're attempting to get this balance back out. So 2, 3, and 4 years from now, it's the right mix in the age of vehicles to serve the market. So we're very aware of it, but it's all judgment. It's not absolutely guaranteed. I think that I've been elated because the administration has done everything I could imagine to put the kibosh on the electrification.
Joe Shoen: We had to take what their supply chain was able to produce, and this caused disruption in the age and size of our trucks, and we're working very hard to remedy that. And you see this year, the year we're just kind of finishing, we bought very arguably a little more vehicles than is reasonable, but if you get into the details, you would see we're attempting to get this balance back out. So 2, 3, and 4 years from now, it's the right mix in the age of vehicles to serve the market. So we're very aware of it, but it's all judgment. It's not absolutely guaranteed. I think that I've been elated because the administration has done everything I could imagine to put the kibosh on the electrification.
Speaker #4: So two, three, and four years from now, you would see we're attempting to get this it's the right mix in the age of vehicles market.
Speaker #4: to serve the of it. But it's all judgment. It's not absolute guarantee. I think that I've been elated because the administration has done everything I could imagine to put the kibosh on the electrification.
Speaker #4: So you and I'm sure all your peers have seen what our good friends in the manufacturing business, Mary Barra, announced, I think, $6 billion or $5 billion write-off.
Joe Shoen: So you and, I'm sure, all your peers have seen what our good friends in the manufacturing business, Mary Barra, announced, I think, $6 billion or $5 billion write-off. Jim Farley announced $19.5 billion write-off. Well, that gives you some idea of the disruption at their level, and that disruption kind of is like a ripple in a pond that carries through to people like me or to car dealers. If you have any car dealer clients, you'll see that they're, they're not getting the exact mix of vehicles that they, that they would wish they had. But this will balance out.
Joe Shoen: So you and, I'm sure, all your peers have seen what our good friends in the manufacturing business, Mary Barra, announced, I think, $6 billion or $5 billion write-off. Jim Farley announced $19.5 billion write-off. Well, that gives you some idea of the disruption at their level, and that disruption kind of is like a ripple in a pond that carries through to people like me or to car dealers. If you have any car dealer clients, you'll see that they're, they're not getting the exact mix of vehicles that they, that they would wish they had. But this will balance out.
Speaker #4: Jim Farley announced 19 and a half billion write-off. Well, that gives you some idea of the disruption at their level. And that disruption kind of is like a ripple of a pond.
Speaker #4: It carries through to people like me, or to car dealers. If you have any car dealer clients, you'll see that they're not getting the exact mix of vehicles that they would wish they had.
Speaker #4: But this will people. And once they shed balance out. The car makers are smart electrification - I don't know what it is - dysphoria, I'm not sure of the right name for it, but as they get out of that, they're going to deliver the mix of vehicles that customers respond.
Joe Shoen: The carmakers are smart people, and once they shed themselves of this electrification, I don't know what it is, dysphoria, I'm not sure the right name for it, but as they get out of that, they're going to deliver the mix of vehicles that customers want, and customers will respond. So if that kind of addresses your question, it may be too much information. I don't know.
Joe Shoen: The carmakers are smart people, and once they shed themselves of this electrification, I don't know what it is, dysphoria, I'm not sure the right name for it, but as they get out of that, they're going to deliver the mix of vehicles that customers want, and customers will respond. So if that kind of addresses your question, it may be too much information. I don't know.
Speaker #4: want. And customers will So if that kind of addresses your question, it may be too much information. I don't
Speaker #4: know.
Speaker #2: No, that's
Speaker #2: helpful perspective. Appreciate that. Wanted to think about the expense management side of things. I know it's been a focus for you. Do you think this needs to be a more intensified effort over the next 6 to 12 months, or would you say the structure is actually in a good place, but it's more waiting on volume to come back?
Steven Ramsey: No, that's helpful perspective. Appreciate that. Wanted to think about the expense management side of things. I know it's been a focus for you. Do you think this needs to be a more intensified effort over the next 6 to 12 months, or would you say the structure is actually in a good place, but it's more waiting on volume to come back?
Steven Ramsey: No, that's helpful perspective. Appreciate that. Wanted to think about the expense management side of things. I know it's been a focus for you. Do you think this needs to be a more intensified effort over the next 6 to 12 months, or would you say the structure is actually in a good place, but it's more waiting on volume to come back?
Speaker #3: I've been pounding through on we run on a system of budgets like a lot of people. So I've been pounding through budgets trying to get the correct response out of the various parts of I'll see some results the corporation.
Joe Shoen: We run on a system of budgets like a lot of people, so I've been pounding through budgets, trying to get the correct response out of the various parts of the corporation. And I think I'll see some results in the present calendar year and a little bit more of the next year. Repair hasn't been too bad. It's a lot of money. It's somewhere approaching $800 million on an annual basis, but it's coming in somewhere in a normal. We calculate all repair by model, by year, by cents per mile. We have a pretty good ability to forecast that. So repair, we've got halfway under control. Personnel is kind of, we're stuck in a vise on that.
Joe Shoen: We run on a system of budgets like a lot of people, so I've been pounding through budgets, trying to get the correct response out of the various parts of the corporation. And I think I'll see some results in the present calendar year and a little bit more of the next year. Repair hasn't been too bad. It's a lot of money. It's somewhere approaching $800 million on an annual basis, but it's coming in somewhere in a normal. We calculate all repair by model, by year, by cents per mile. We have a pretty good ability to forecast that. So repair, we've got halfway under control. Personnel is kind of, we're stuck in a vise on that.
Speaker #3: in the present calendar year and a little bit more the next year. Repair, it And I think hasn't been too bad. It's somewhere approaching $800 It's a lot of money.
Speaker #3: Million, and the annual basis. But it's coming in somewhere in a normative—we calculate all repair by model, by year, by cents per mile.
Speaker #3: We have a pretty good ability to forecast Personnel, it's kind of that. So repair, we've got a we're stuck in a vice on that, is I think many, many people or organizations are, living for our workforce is rising at a pretty good clip.
Speaker #3: We have a pretty good ability to forecast Personnel, it's kind of that. So repair, we've got a we're stuck in a vice on that, is I think many, many people or organizations are, living for our workforce is which is cost of And they're pretty hard-pitched.
Joe Shoen: So I think many, many people or organizations are, which is cost of living for our workforce is rising at a pretty good clip, and they're pretty hard hit. So, we're going to see that increase steadily over the next 2 or 3 years, I think, for sure. And our job is to outpace that. When I look at that, we look at that on a location-by-location basis. Basically, we need to get a nexus of revenue, enough that it'll support the complement of people to be open the hours we want to be open. We may likely have to adjust some hours over the coming 12 months because it's not going to generate enough surplus to pay the wages for the hours the store is presently open. But in my judgment now, that's not done.
Joe Shoen: So I think many, many people or organizations are, which is cost of living for our workforce is rising at a pretty good clip, and they're pretty hard hit. So, we're going to see that increase steadily over the next 2 or 3 years, I think, for sure. And our job is to outpace that. When I look at that, we look at that on a location-by-location basis. Basically, we need to get a nexus of revenue, enough that it'll support the complement of people to be open the hours we want to be open. We may likely have to adjust some hours over the coming 12 months because it's not going to generate enough surplus to pay the wages for the hours the store is presently open. But in my judgment now, that's not done.
Speaker #3: So we're going to see that increase steadily over the next two or three years, I think, for sure. And our job is to outpace that and when I look at that, we look at that on our location-by-location basis.
Speaker #3: Basically, we need to get a nexus of revenue enough that it'll support the complement of people to be open the hours we want to be adjust some hours over the coming 12 months because the it's not going to generate enough surplus to pay the wages.
Speaker #3: The store is presently open, that they might, for the hours judgment. Now, that's not done, but that's the kind of pressure we're under. And it's on the—it gets to a totally micro analysis.
Joe Shoen: That's the, that's the kind of pressure we're under, and it's on a, it gets to a totally micro analysis. You can say overall, blah, blah, blah, but, but every morning, we open about 2,400 stores, so I got to have a body there. And, you know, it's, there's, there, it's, it's, very specific. And then some days of the week, I got to have several bodies there. So. And those people have to be paid a living wage. So that, there's, there's going to be tension there, I think. I, I don't know what part of the country you're from, but the, this year, the West Coast of the United States, let's say California, Oregon, and Washington, have put in, greatly increased minimum wages have pro, have processed or have in place plans that will automatically do it next year.
Joe Shoen: That's the, that's the kind of pressure we're under, and it's on a, it gets to a totally micro analysis. You can say overall, blah, blah, blah, but, but every morning, we open about 2,400 stores, so I got to have a body there. And, you know, it's, there's, there, it's, it's, very specific. And then some days of the week, I got to have several bodies there. So. And those people have to be paid a living wage. So that, there's, there's going to be tension there, I think. I, I don't know what part of the country you're from, but the, this year, the West Coast of the United States, let's say California, Oregon, and Washington, have put in, greatly increased minimum wages have pro, have processed or have in place plans that will automatically do it next year.
Speaker #3: You can say overall, blah, blah, blah, but every morning we open about 2,400 stores. So I got to have a body there and it's very some days of the week, I got to have several bodies specific.
Speaker #3: there. So and those people have to be paid a living wage. So there's going to be tension there. I And then think I don't know what part of the country you're from, but this year, the West Coast of the United States, let's say California, Oregon, Washington, have put in greatly increased minimum wages at pro have plans that will automatically do it next year.
Speaker #3: And in many jurisdictions, they've done this for both salaried and hourly. Most of us are used to minimum wage for hourly personnel. But they're now putting in minimum wages for salaried personnel.
Joe Shoen: In many jurisdictions, they've done this for both salaried and hourly. Most of us are used to minimum wage for hourly personnel, but they're now putting in minimum wages for salaried personnel, and it's gonna stress a significant number of our stores' profitability. So of course, we're going to pay the people, but we have to boost productivity. Both self-storage and U-Box have been a relief valve for that in many instances. We've been able to expand that presence in the location, but other locations are limited by the geographic footprint we own. There's only so much you can do on that piece of land. So let's say in Los Angeles, we have several locations that are just slightly over half an acre. Well, there's no, there's no wiggle there.
Joe Shoen: In many jurisdictions, they've done this for both salaried and hourly. Most of us are used to minimum wage for hourly personnel, but they're now putting in minimum wages for salaried personnel, and it's gonna stress a significant number of our stores' profitability. So of course, we're going to pay the people, but we have to boost productivity. Both self-storage and U-Box have been a relief valve for that in many instances. We've been able to expand that presence in the location, but other locations are limited by the geographic footprint we own. There's only so much you can do on that piece of land. So let's say in Los Angeles, we have several locations that are just slightly over half an acre. Well, there's no, there's no wiggle there.
Speaker #3: And it's going to stress a significant number of our stores' profitability. So, of course, we're going to pay the people, but we have to boost productivity.
Speaker #3: The geographic footprint we own—land. So, let's say, in Los, are just slightly over... wiggle there. So those are under intense pressure. And I don't have a simple solution to it, but we're very cognizant of it.
Joe Shoen: So those are under intense pressure, and I don't have a simple solution to it, but we're very cognizant of it. We're working on it.
Joe Shoen: So those are under intense pressure, and I don't have a simple solution to it, but we're very cognizant of it. We're working on it.
Speaker #3: We're working on it.
Steven Ramsey: Okay, that's helpful. And then last one from me. You've talked some about U-Box in the major markets that you are building out. But, but can you clarify if construction is going on in those markets for warehouse capacity? And then secondly, can you talk about U-Box usage, both moving and storage, in large metros that you already have established warehouse presence? I try to think about the potential upside in these big cities once it's built out.
Steven Ramsey: Okay, that's helpful. And then last one from me. You've talked some about U-Box in the major markets that you are building out. But, but can you clarify if construction is going on in those markets for warehouse capacity? And then secondly, can you talk about U-Box usage, both moving and storage, in large metros that you already have established warehouse presence? I try to think about the potential upside in these big cities once it's built out.
Speaker #2: Talked some about U-Box in the major markets, okay, that you are building. That's helpful. Can you clarify if construction is going on in those markets for warehouse capacity? And then the last one for me, you've—
Speaker #2: And then secondly, can you talk about both moving and storage in already established warehouse presence? U-Box usage. Trying to think about the potential.
Speaker #3: I'll take the run to that question, let Sam take the
Joe Shoen: I'll take the front of that question, let Sam take the back of it. In the cities I mentioned, or the metropolitan areas I mentioned, at the minimum, we own property. We're somewhere between land use and, you know, putting a roof on it at these locations. These are all, to me, each one's a big saga. Okay, so I know too much information on it, but we'll pick DC. We've had the steel building on the ground for 2 years. As that's how, between COVID and normal city bureaucracies, it set us back. We thought 2 years ago, we were going to break ground. We ordered the building, they delivered it, we still haven't broke ground. So it's not because we're not trying, it's just, it's a... It's quite elaborate.
Joe Shoen: I'll take the front of that question, let Sam take the back of it. In the cities I mentioned, or the metropolitan areas I mentioned, at the minimum, we own property. We're somewhere between land use and, you know, putting a roof on it at these locations. These are all, to me, each one's a big saga. Okay, so I know too much information on it, but we'll pick DC. We've had the steel building on the ground for 2 years. As that's how, between COVID and normal city bureaucracies, it set us back. We thought 2 years ago, we were going to break ground. We ordered the building, they delivered it, we still haven't broke ground. So it's not because we're not trying, it's just, it's a... It's quite elaborate.
Speaker #3: metropolitan areas I it's built out. mentioned, at the minimum, we own property. We're somewheres between land use and putting the roof on it at these back of it. locations.
Speaker #3: metropolitan areas I it's built out. mentioned, at the minimum, we own property. We're somewheres between land use and putting the roof on it at these back of it.
Speaker #3: all, to me, each one's a big saga. Okay. So I know too much information on These are In the them, but we'll pick DC.
Speaker #3: We've had a we've had the steel building on the ground for two years. That's how between COVID and normal city bureaucracies, how much it set us back.
Speaker #3: We thought two years ago we were going to break ground. We ordered the building. They delivered it. We still haven't broke ground. So it's not because we're not trying.
Speaker #3: It's just it's quite a labyrinth. But in all those cities, we own the property or metro areas. And all those metro areas, we own the property.
Joe Shoen: But in all those cities, we own the property or metro areas. In all those metro areas, we own the property. I’ll say, well, I’ll pick Vancouver Island. That’s a readily apparent thing. If we don’t have a significant warehouse capacity, there’s just going to be no U-Box business at all. So we have to have real warehouse capacity there. So, but in the rest of Canada, we’ve done a great job from the Maritimes up and through Ottawa, down through Montreal, all through the Greater Ontario, or that whole belt of people between Toronto and Detroit. We’ve got a fairly adequate footprint, and so I believe the business will follow. Sam?
Joe Shoen: But in all those cities, we own the property or metro areas. In all those metro areas, we own the property. I’ll say, well, I’ll pick Vancouver Island. That’s a readily apparent thing. If we don’t have a significant warehouse capacity, there’s just going to be no U-Box business at all. So we have to have real warehouse capacity there. So, but in the rest of Canada, we’ve done a great job from the Maritimes up and through Ottawa, down through Montreal, all through the Greater Ontario, or that whole belt of people between Toronto and Detroit. We’ve got a fairly adequate footprint, and so I believe the business will follow. Sam?
Speaker #3: I'll say, well, I'll pick Vancouver Island. That's an readily apparent thing. If we don't have a significant warehouse capacity, there's just going to be no U-Box business at all.
Speaker #3: So we have to have real warehouse capacity there. But in the rest of Canada, we've done a great job from the Maritimes up and through Ottawa, down through of people between Toronto and Detroit.
Speaker #3: We've got a fairly adequate footprint. And so I believe the business
Speaker #3: will follow. Sam? Sure.
Speaker #4: I'll add some more color. where certainly maybe a little extra excited about because Joe had the foresight to design our product and our Metros, for U-Box, is something strategy specifically That thrives in the metro areas with So for example, our container competitors, fits in a apartment parking spot no problem.
Samuel Shoen: Sure, I'll add some more color. You know, metros for U-Box is something we're certainly maybe a little extra excited about because Joe had the foresight to design our product and our strategy specifically around the size of container that thrives in the metro areas with challenges of space. So for example, our container size, unlike a lot of our competitors, fits in a apartment parking spot, no problem. A lot of the challenge in metro areas are restrictions on where they can be laid in terms of needing permits or having outright restrictions to be placed on the street. Our container option delivery method with the trailer gives it a license plate, which means it can go in anywhere that's a legal parking spot.
Samuel Shoen: Sure, I'll add some more color. You know, metros for U-Box is something we're certainly maybe a little extra excited about because Joe had the foresight to design our product and our strategy specifically around the size of container that thrives in the metro areas with challenges of space. So for example, our container size, unlike a lot of our competitors, fits in a apartment parking spot, no problem. A lot of the challenge in metro areas are restrictions on where they can be laid in terms of needing permits or having outright restrictions to be placed on the street. Our container option delivery method with the trailer gives it a license plate, which means it can go in anywhere that's a legal parking spot.
Speaker #4: A lot of the challenge in metro areas are restrictions on where they can be laid in terms of needing permits or having outright restrictions to be placed on the street.
Speaker #4: Our container option delivery method challenges of space. with the trailer gives it a license plate, which means it can size, unlike a lot of our spot.
Samuel Shoen: So those are tremendous differentiators in our product versus the competition, and those were deliberate, and of course, we're hoping they continue to drive some exciting results in the metro. Besides the fact that, you know, a lot of these, the metro demand is for a smaller size container in the first place. So, getting the right size product to those customers is what we do. So I think we've got a big advantage.
Samuel Shoen: So those are tremendous differentiators in our product versus the competition, and those were deliberate, and of course, we're hoping they continue to drive some exciting results in the metro. Besides the fact that, you know, a lot of these, the metro demand is for a smaller size container in the first place. So, getting the right size product to those customers is what we do. So I think we've got a big advantage.
Speaker #4: differentiators in our course, we're hoping they So those are tremendous drive deliberate and, of go in anywhere that some continue to drive some exciting results in the metro.
Speaker #4: Besides the fact product versus the competition. that a lot of these the And those were metro demand is for a smaller-sized container in the first place.
Speaker #4: So getting the right size product to those customers a big advantage.
Speaker #5: is Jason. is what we do. Steven, this that there isn't any misunderstanding. In
Jason Berg: Steven, this is Jason. I just want to make sure that there isn't any misunderstanding. In these markets, our customers already have access to the U-Box product. We're just looking to improve their access to it. It's not that we aren't in those markets.
Jason Berg: Steven, this is Jason. I just want to make sure that there isn't any misunderstanding. In these markets, our customers already have access to the U-Box product. We're just looking to improve their access to it. It's not that we aren't in those markets.
Speaker #5: these markets, our customers already have access to the U-Box product. We're just looking to improve their access to it. It's not that we aren't in those markets.
Speaker #3: Yes.
Joe Shoen: Yes.
Joe Shoen: Yes.
Speaker #2: That's all helpful color. Thank you, So I think we've got
Steven Ramsey: That's all helpful color. Thank you, guys.
Steven Ramsey: That's all helpful color. Thank you, guys.
Operator: Thank you. Your next question is from Jeff Kauffman, from Vertical Research Partners. Your line is now open.
Operator: Thank you. Your next question is from Jeff Kauffman, from Vertical Research Partners. Your line is now open.
Speaker #6: from Jeff Kaufman from Vertical Research Partners. Your line is now open. Thank you. Your next question is:
Speaker #6: open. Thank
Speaker #7: you very much. Good morning, everybody. I was just had a question more for Jason. You 2023 cargo van cohort and starting to work on the '24s.
Jeff Kauffman: Thank you very much. Good morning, everybody. I just had a question more for Jason. You talked about we're almost through the 2023 cargo van cohort and starting to work on the 2024s. Can you give us an idea of how many vehicles we have left to kind of get caught up to the current market and maybe the differential between your average acquisition costs and where you're depreciating the 2024s versus what that spread looked like for the 2023s?
Jeff Kauffman: Thank you very much. Good morning, everybody. I just had a question more for Jason. You talked about we're almost through the 2023 cargo van cohort and starting to work on the 2024s. Can you give us an idea of how many vehicles we have left to kind of get caught up to the current market and maybe the differential between your average acquisition costs and where you're depreciating the 2024s versus what that spread looked like for the 2023s?
Speaker #7: Can you give us an idea of how left to kind of get caught up to the many vehicles we have talked about or almost through the current market and maybe the average acquisition costs and where your differential between your depreciating the '24s versus what that spread looked like for the '23s?
Speaker #3: Sure. I'll give you on the '24s. We probably have somewhere around, some big picture numbers, 6,000 of those left. And those were the most expensive ones.
Jason Berg: ... Sure. I'll, I'll give you some, some big picture numbers on, on the 2024s. We, we probably have somewhere around 6,000 of those left, and those were the most expensive ones. A little bit more pricey than the 2023s. And then we have, say, close to, nineteen thousand of the model year 2025s that, that then were maybe $3,000 cheaper than, than the, the 2024s. So now we're gonna be in the process of rotating out the, the, the model year 2024s, which we've been hitting those with this increased depreciation. So part of answering the question earlier, I think it was for, for Steve Ralston, that's been part of the depreciation increases. We've been hitting those, those model years here before we have to sell them, hoping to minimize any loss on disposal.
Jason Berg: ... Sure. I'll, I'll give you some, some big picture numbers on, on the 2024s. We, we probably have somewhere around 6,000 of those left, and those were the most expensive ones. A little bit more pricey than the 2023s. And then we have, say, close to, nineteen thousand of the model year 2025s that, that then were maybe $3,000 cheaper than, than the, the 2024s. So now we're gonna be in the process of rotating out the, the, the model year 2024s, which we've been hitting those with this increased depreciation. So part of answering the question earlier, I think it was for, for Steve Ralston, that's been part of the depreciation increases. We've been hitting those, those model years here before we have to sell them, hoping to minimize any loss on disposal.
Speaker #3: A little bit more pricey than the we have say close to '23s. 19,000 of the model year '25s that then were maybe $3,000 cheaper than the And then '24s.
Speaker #3: So now we're going to be in the process of rotating out the model year '24s. Which we have been increased depreciation. So part hitting those with this of the answer to the question earlier I think it of the depreciation increases we've been was for Steve hitting those model years Brahlston.
Speaker #3: That's been part here before we have to sell them, on disposal. And we'll see how successful we are here in the next 12 months on
Jason Berg: We'll see how successful we are here in the next 12 months on that.
Jason Berg: We'll see how successful we are here in the next 12 months on that.
Speaker #3: that. Okay.
Speaker #7: But is your sense that because look, it's going to come out either way, right? Either through sale. But is your sense we've depreciation or loss on got the '24 model years marked to market fairly at this point in time, or is there still kind of going to be this deferred catch-up on loss on sale?
Jeff Kauffman: Okay, but is your sense that 'cause look, it's gonna come out either way, right? Either through depreciation or loss on sale. But is your sense we've got the 24 model years mark-to-market fairly at this point in time, or is there still kind of gonna be this deferred catch-up on loss on sale?
Jeff Kauffman: Okay, but is your sense that 'cause look, it's gonna come out either way, right? Either through depreciation or loss on sale. But is your sense we've got the 24 model years mark-to-market fairly at this point in time, or is there still kind of gonna be this deferred catch-up on loss on sale?
Speaker #3: I think it would be fair to expect a loss on sale for those units this year. I don't know if
Jason Berg: I think it would be fair to expect a loss on sale for those units this year.
Jason Berg: I think it would be fair to expect a loss on sale for those units this year.
Speaker #3: we're fully there yet.
Jeff Kauffman: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Kauffman: Mm-hmm.
Jason Berg: I don't know if we're fully there yet.
Jason Berg: I don't know if we're fully there yet.
Speaker #7: Let me
Joe Shoen: Let me address it. It's you make your estimate of what you're gonna get on sale when you're going in to set up your books.
Joe Shoen: Let me address it. It's you make your estimate of what you're gonna get on sale when you're going in to set up your books.
Speaker #7: estimate of what you're going to get on it. sale. When you're going in, you set up You make your your books. Well, then we have had to come back with adjustments because the way the market has developed, that estimate turned out to be wrong.
Jeff Kauffman: Mm-hmm.
Jeff Kauffman: Mm-hmm.
Joe Shoen: Well, then, we've had to come back with adjustments because the way the market has developed, that estimate turned out to be wrong, and it. And as far as I can tell, it's wrong because as the automakers get away from electrification and get their supply chains reorganized, they're now, in fact, selling new vehicles for less than last year's new vehicle, and maintaining a margin. I. They need to make a profit, I'm all for it, but that takes the resale value and kind of gives it a little bit more of a hit. And we haven't, in recent years, at least not in the last 15 years, had a market where the new prices kept being under the old price.
Joe Shoen: Well, then, we've had to come back with adjustments because the way the market has developed, that estimate turned out to be wrong, and it. And as far as I can tell, it's wrong because as the automakers get away from electrification and get their supply chains reorganized, they're now, in fact, selling new vehicles for less than last year's new vehicle, and maintaining a margin. I. They need to make a profit, I'm all for it, but that takes the resale value and kind of gives it a little bit more of a hit. And we haven't, in recent years, at least not in the last 15 years, had a market where the new prices kept being under the old price.
Speaker #7: And as far as I can, the automakers get away from electrification and get their supply chains, new vehicles, for less than last year's new vehicles.
Speaker #7: And maintaining a margin. They need to make a profit. I'm all for it. But that takes the resale value and kind of gives it a little bit more of a hit.
Speaker #7: And we haven't, in, where, 15 years, had a market—the new prices kept being under the old price. And recent years, at least not in the last—so I think we poorly estimated this.
Joe Shoen: So I think we poorly estimated this, and of course, we figured this out, I don't know, a year, year and a half ago, and we started to, to whack on it, and everybody was confident going into this particular year we're in, that we're finally through it. And then, of course, what happened? Another round of opportunistic, so we're acquiring the fleet cheaper, but that may mean that these trucks that we just put in are gonna retail for less, or wholesale when we get rid of them, for less than we thought. So we're- I, I've got people here pretty tuned up, and I think we will try to, if we see it declining, what my direction has been, try to adjust depreciation to where you're gonna basically be neutral at sale.
Joe Shoen: So I think we poorly estimated this, and of course, we figured this out, I don't know, a year, year and a half ago, and we started to, to whack on it, and everybody was confident going into this particular year we're in, that we're finally through it. And then, of course, what happened? Another round of opportunistic, so we're acquiring the fleet cheaper, but that may mean that these trucks that we just put in are gonna retail for less, or wholesale when we get rid of them, for less than we thought. So we're- I, I've got people here pretty tuned up, and I think we will try to, if we see it declining, what my direction has been, try to adjust depreciation to where you're gonna basically be neutral at sale.
Speaker #7: And, of course, we figured this out, I don’t know, a year, year and a half ago. And we started to whack on it, and everybody was confident going into this particular year we’re in that we’re finally through it.
Speaker #7: And then, of course, what happened? Another round of opportunistic—so we're acquiring the fleet cheaper, but that may mean that these trucks that we just put in are going to retail for less, or wholesale, when we get rid of them, for less than we thought.
Speaker #7: So, I've got people here pretty tuned up. And I think we will try to, if we see it declining, what my direction has been, try to adjust depreciation to where you're going to basically be neutral at sale. Because the problem with the sale is that by the time you get it, you forgot how much you paid for it and all that.
Joe Shoen: Because the problem with the sale is that, by the time you get it, you've forgot how much you paid for it and all that. So we should suffer the pain monthly, and that also puts pressure on my marketing people because they basically incur that depreciation cost as part of their charge or whatever you want to call it. That's part of what they know they have to hit. It's harder for them to- for me to hold them accountable for recouping a loss on sale, but they really didn't have a budget or a forecast that adequately presented that. So I'm very hopeful we're going to get it right, but you've seen how just this whole thing has just kind of ricocheted through, and it's given everybody some things they didn't really totally appreciate. And I'm kind of a-
Joe Shoen: Because the problem with the sale is that, by the time you get it, you've forgot how much you paid for it and all that. So we should suffer the pain monthly, and that also puts pressure on my marketing people because they basically incur that depreciation cost as part of their charge or whatever you want to call it. That's part of what they know they have to hit. It's harder for them to- for me to hold them accountable for recouping a loss on sale, but they really didn't have a budget or a forecast that adequately presented that. So I'm very hopeful we're going to get it right, but you've seen how just this whole thing has just kind of ricocheted through, and it's given everybody some things they didn't really totally appreciate. And I'm kind of a-
Speaker #7: So we should suffer the pain monthly. And that also puts pressure on my marketing incur that depreciation cost as part of people because they basically their charge or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker #7: That's part of what they know they have to hit. It's harder for them to for me to hold them accountable that they really didn't have adequately presented that.
Speaker #7: So I'm very hopeful we're—but you've seen how just this whole thing, as just a budget or a forecast that's going to get it right, kind of ricocheted through and has given everybody some things they didn't really totally appreciate.
Speaker #7: And I'm kind of a 'recouping a loss on sale, half-empty' person, a glass half-empty. And I've kind of pushed our people. Of course, they're all marketing and know we're going to sell our way out of it.
Jeff Kauffman: Mm-hmm
Jeff Kauffman: Mm-hmm
Joe Shoen: ...glass half empty person, and I've kind of pushed our people. Of course, they're all marketing and, "No, we're going to sell our way out of it." Well, I think it's pretty clear when the pickup or van prices decline two years in a row, you're not going to sell your way out of it. You're just going to respond to the market. So I think it's a collaborative effort to make these estimates. I won't call them guesses, but they're kind of a guess. But your estimate of what that thing is going to go out for 18 months from now is an estimate. And of course, there's other industry people making this estimate. We're not the only people trying to figure this out.
Joe Shoen: ...glass half empty person, and I've kind of pushed our people. Of course, they're all marketing and, "No, we're going to sell our way out of it." Well, I think it's pretty clear when the pickup or van prices decline two years in a row, you're not going to sell your way out of it. You're just going to respond to the market. So I think it's a collaborative effort to make these estimates. I won't call them guesses, but they're kind of a guess. But your estimate of what that thing is going to go out for 18 months from now is an estimate. And of course, there's other industry people making this estimate. We're not the only people trying to figure this out.
Speaker #7: Well, I think it's pretty clear from the pickup or van prices—declined two years in a row. You're not going to sell your way out of it.
Speaker #7: You're just going to respond to the market. So I think it's a collaborative effort to make these estimates. I won't call them guesses, but they're kind of a guess.
Speaker #7: But your estimate of what that thing months from now, is an estimate, isn't it? Of course, there's other industry people making this estimate. We're not the only people trying to figure this out.
Speaker #7: So I have some belief that we may now hit the bottom of this whole declining group of factors coming together. But should next year GMC lower prices again, they've written off all that because they improved their margins and garbage on the books.
Joe Shoen: So I, I have some belief that we may now hit the bottom of this whole declining group of factors coming together. But should next year GMC lower prices again, because they, they improved their margins, and they've written off all the garbage, they have the same problem I did. They had some garbage on the books because they were attempting to respond to government, and I don't know what you call third-party greeny pressure. People who didn't know what the facts were, but nevertheless, had power positions. They tried to respond to them, and it's really cost them greatly. It hasn't hit us as hard, but it's costing us, and we, we, we will work through it, and every effort is being made to keep the fleet.
Joe Shoen: So I, I have some belief that we may now hit the bottom of this whole declining group of factors coming together. But should next year GMC lower prices again, because they, they improved their margins, and they've written off all the garbage, they have the same problem I did. They had some garbage on the books because they were attempting to respond to government, and I don't know what you call third-party greeny pressure. People who didn't know what the facts were, but nevertheless, had power positions. They tried to respond to them, and it's really cost them greatly. It hasn't hit us as hard, but it's costing us, and we, we, we will work through it, and every effort is being made to keep the fleet.
Speaker #7: Because they were attempting to respond to government and I don't want to call it third-party greenie nevertheless had power positions. They tried to respond to them.
Speaker #7: Because they were attempting to respond to government and I don't want to call it third-party greenie nevertheless had power garbage, they have the same problem I did.
Speaker #7: us. And we will work through it. And every effort is being made to keep the fleet. I've always prided myself for the last 40 years of always having the fleet on They had some the books for less than it's worth.
Joe Shoen: I've always prided, prided myself over the last 40 years of always having the fleet on the books for less than it's worth... because when push comes to shove, if you're on the books for more than it's worth, it can be a very unpleasant time. So I've pushed real hard, and we've missed it 2 years in a row on our pickup and van fleet, and we should have it right this time, but on- only, only time is going to tell. It's, it's important. We're trying to undershoot without just being stupid. If I put too much depreciation on, of course, my rental teams will say, "We can't possibly make-- We can't make any of our goals. It's impossible. You've afflicted us with..." So I have to not, try to be not too low or too high, so.
Joe Shoen: I've always prided, prided myself over the last 40 years of always having the fleet on the books for less than it's worth... because when push comes to shove, if you're on the books for more than it's worth, it can be a very unpleasant time. So I've pushed real hard, and we've missed it 2 years in a row on our pickup and van fleet, and we should have it right this time, but on- only, only time is going to tell. It's, it's important. We're trying to undershoot without just being stupid. If I put too much depreciation on, of course, my rental teams will say, "We can't possibly make-- We can't make any of our goals. It's impossible. You've afflicted us with..." So I have to not, try to be not too low or too high, so.
Speaker #7: Because when push comes to shove, if you're on the books for more than it's worth, it can be a very unpleasant time. So I've pickup and van fleet.
Speaker #7: pushed real hard. And we've missed it two
Speaker #7: And we should have it right this time. But only time is going to tell. It's important. We're trying to undershoot without just being coarse. My rental teams will say we can't possibly make—we can't make any of our goals.
Speaker #7: It's impossible. years in a row on our really cost them stupid. have to not try to be You've afflicted us with. not too low or too high.
Speaker #7: It's impossible. years in a row on our really cost them stupid. have to not try to be You've afflicted us with. So I So but on the other hand, If I put too much depreciation on, of I'll say I, but the whole company has overestimated resales for two years running.
Joe Shoen: But on the other hand, I'll say that the whole company has overestimated resales for two years running. Yes, it all comes out in the wash, but during the interim period, it can affect people's motivations, and I need to do that, too.
Joe Shoen: But on the other hand, I'll say that the whole company has overestimated resales for two years running. Yes, it all comes out in the wash, but during the interim period, it can affect people's motivations, and I need to do that, too.
Speaker #7: Yes, it all comes out in the wash, but during the interim period, it can affect people's motivations and I need to do that too.
Speaker #1: Well, thank you very
Steven Ralston: Well, thank you very much.
Steven Ralston: Well, thank you very much.
Speaker #2: Thank you. Your next question is from Jamie Woolen from Woolen Management. Carolina, is that open?
Operator: Thank you. Your next question is from Jamie Wilen from Wilen Management. Your line is now open.
Operator: Thank you. Your next question is from James Wilen from Wilen Management. Your line is now open.
James Wilen: Thank you. Joe, you've always mentioned that fleet utilization was your prime objective in managing the business. How did you arrive at only reducing the fleet expenditures in the coming year by half a billion dollars? And as you look forward, are you going to spend half a billion dollars less in future years as well?
James Wilen: Thank you. Joe, you've always mentioned that fleet utilization was your prime objective in managing the business. How did you arrive at only reducing the fleet expenditures in the coming year by half a billion dollars? And as you look forward, are you going to spend half a billion dollars less in future years as well?
Speaker #1: Joe, you've always mentioned that utilization was your prime objective in Thank you. Hey, managing the business. How did you arrive at only reducing the fleet much.
Speaker #1: Expenditures in the coming year by half a billion dollars? And have you looked forward? Are you going to spend half a billion dollars less in future years as—
Speaker #3: Right now, I'll start with the year
Joe Shoen: Right now, I'll start with the year we're finishing up, so we call that fiscal 2026, I believe. In fiscal 2026, you're actually seeing an increased, significantly increased fleet expense. That is aimed at trying to rebalance. If you don't buy some trucks, well, 4 years from now, you don't have those trucks at that mileage and that cost parameter, and so you create imbalances through the whole fleet, and that also impacts on what you can buy next. So in the year just finished, we put in something like 10,000 10-foot trucks. That's an - that's beyond replacement, considerably. We have a whole bunch of considerations, and that truck, in our present plan for the coming year, we reduce that massively because we think we know what we're doing there.
Joe Shoen: Right now, I'll start with the year we're finishing up, so we call that fiscal 2026, I believe. In fiscal 2026, you're actually seeing an increased, significantly increased fleet expense. That is aimed at trying to rebalance. If you don't buy some trucks, well, 4 years from now, you don't have those trucks at that mileage and that cost parameter, and so you create imbalances through the whole fleet, and that also impacts on what you can buy next. So in the year just finished, we put in something like 10,000 10-foot trucks. That's an - that's beyond replacement, considerably. We have a whole bunch of considerations, and that truck, in our present plan for the coming year, we reduce that massively because we think we know what we're doing there.
Speaker #3: Believe. In fiscal '26, you're actually, well, seeing an increase—significantly increased fleet expense. To rebalance, if you don't buy some trucks before, years from now, you don't have those trucks at that mileage and that cost. It creates imbalances through the whole fleet.
Speaker #3: And parameter and so you that also impacts on what can you buy next. So in the year just finished, we put in something like 10,000, 10-foot trucks.
Speaker #3: That's beyond replacement considerably. We have a whole bunch of considerations. And that truck in our present plan for the coming year, we reduced that massively because we think we know what we're doing there.
Speaker #3: In my 20-foot truck, I have a disproportionate amount of years old—fleet that's 8 or 10. So while my total number is okay, my mix is off.
Joe Shoen: In my 20-foot truck, I have a disproportionate amount of fleet that's 8 or 10 years old. So while my total number is okay, my mix is off. A 10-year-old truck can't perform quite like a 5-year-old truck or a 4-year-old truck. So I'm buying a fair amount of those, a little bit more than you might say is replacement, simply because I have a lump of them that are 8 or 10 years old, and I've got to try to smooth that out. The perfect life would be, you trigger the life of the truck, divide that in the fleet, make that fleet purchase every year. That would be wonderful, but they just don't become available. And in the past 5 years, it's been aggravated because of all these supply chain disruptions. The worst being we're on allocation.
Joe Shoen: In my 20-foot truck, I have a disproportionate amount of fleet that's 8 or 10 years old. So while my total number is okay, my mix is off. A 10-year-old truck can't perform quite like a 5-year-old truck or a 4-year-old truck. So I'm buying a fair amount of those, a little bit more than you might say is replacement, simply because I have a lump of them that are 8 or 10 years old, and I've got to try to smooth that out. The perfect life would be, you trigger the life of the truck, divide that in the fleet, make that fleet purchase every year. That would be wonderful, but they just don't become available. And in the past 5 years, it's been aggravated because of all these supply chain disruptions. The worst being we're on allocation.
Speaker #3: A 10-year-old truck can't match a 5-year-old truck or a 4-year-old truck. So I'm buying a fair amount of those, a little bit more than you might say is replacement, simply because I have a lump of them that are 8 or 10 years old that I've got to try to smooth out.
Speaker #3: The perfect life would be you trigger the life of the truck, divide that in the fleet, make that fleet purchase every year. That would be wonderful.
Speaker #3: But they just don't become available. And in the past five years, it's been aggravated because of all these supply chain disruptions. The worst being we're on allocation.
Speaker #3: They would say, "You can buy X trucks." Well, since the Korean War. So that caught us off balance, I would say. And resulted in a couple of times we made huge buys.
Joe Shoen: They would say, "You can buy X trucks." Well, that... We haven't seen that since the Korean War, so, that caught us off balance, I would say. And resulted in a couple times, we made huge buys. Why? Because they could, they would sell them to us. We had to have something, so we made a huge buy. So we're going to, we're going to reduce this, and then we have to see what we can do with sales, because, you know, that problem, it's a buying problem, it's also a selling problem. Can you take that many trucks into the sale market, and can you move them?
Joe Shoen: They would say, "You can buy X trucks." Well, that... We haven't seen that since the Korean War, so, that caught us off balance, I would say. And resulted in a couple times, we made huge buys. Why? Because they could, they would sell them to us. We had to have something, so we made a huge buy. So we're going to, we're going to reduce this, and then we have to see what we can do with sales, because, you know, that problem, it's a buying problem, it's also a selling problem. Can you take that many trucks into the sale market, and can you move them?
Speaker #3: Why? Because they would sell them to us. We had to have something, so we made a huge buy. So that we hadn't seen, that we're going to reduce this.
Speaker #3: And then we have to see what we can do with sales because that problem—it's a buying problem, it's also a selling problem. Can you take that many trucks into the sale market, and can you move them?
Speaker #3: So we'll say in the case of my 20-foot have something like trucks, I 12,000 lump going through. And we can't digest 12,000 of those at resale in one year and probably couldn't do it less than three years.
Joe Shoen: So we'll see in the case of my 20-foot trucks, I have something like 12,000 slump going through, and we can't digest 12,000 of those at resale in 1 year, and probably couldn't do it less than 3 years. So depending on how, but if I don't buy for 3 years, I'm just creating another lump that I have to face down the road. So I'm going to do some modest buys and then accelerate sales and see where that, where we can find the balance. And so we're probing that, I'll say, specifically on the 20-foot truck right now. How many of those trucks can we put into the resale market successfully? And we should buy at least that many of them this year so that we don't have another, another lump in our supply chain.
Joe Shoen: So we'll see in the case of my 20-foot trucks, I have something like 12,000 slump going through, and we can't digest 12,000 of those at resale in 1 year, and probably couldn't do it less than 3 years. So depending on how, but if I don't buy for 3 years, I'm just creating another lump that I have to face down the road. So I'm going to do some modest buys and then accelerate sales and see where that, where we can find the balance. And so we're probing that, I'll say, specifically on the 20-foot truck right now. How many of those trucks can we put into the resale market successfully? And we should buy at least that many of them this year so that we don't have another, another lump in our supply chain.
Speaker #3: So depending on how but if I don't buy for three years, I'm just creating another lump that I have to face down the road.
Speaker #3: modest buys and then So I'm going to do some accelerate sales and see where that where we can find a balance. specifically on the 20-foot truck right we how many of those trucks can we put into the resale market successfully?
Speaker #3: now. How much can them. This year so that we don't have another lump in our supply And we should buy at least that many of chain.
Speaker #1: So on the
Speaker #1: self Go ahead. I say on the self-storage side, as far as
James Wilen: On the self-storage-
James Wilen: On the self-storage-
Joe Shoen: It, it-
Joe Shoen: It, it-
James Wilen: On the self-storage-
James Wilen: On the self-storage-
Joe Shoen: We'll get back.
Joe Shoen: We'll get back.
Speaker #3: I'm sorry.
James Wilen: Okay, I'm sorry.
James Wilen: Okay, I'm sorry.
Joe Shoen: Go ahead, I'm sorry.
Joe Shoen: Go ahead, I'm sorry.
James Wilen: I say on the self-storage side, as far as capacity utilization there, is there any thought of slowing the pace of development, to a more modest level?
James Wilen: I say on the self-storage side, as far as capacity utilization there, is there any thought of slowing the pace of development, to a more modest level?
Speaker #1: Capacity utilization there—is there any thought of slowing the pace of development to a more modest
Speaker #3: It's slowed a lot.
Speaker #3: I think Jason thinks level? It's down $400 million. It's kind of, it's not a—these numbers are down. A little bit soft, but we've slowed it—three-year process.
Joe Shoen: It's slowed a lot. I think Jason thinks it's down $400 million. It's, you know, it's not a... These numbers are a little bit soft, but we've slowed it down. A ground-up self-storage location is probably a 3-year process. So if I slow it down, you won't totally see it till 3 years from now. Now, the other problem is, if I want to speed it up, you won't see it for 3 years. So it's, you know, you got to be a little thoughtful going both ways. So we have slowed it down. I'm still going ahead with what I consider to be strategic. So the U-Box warehouse, as I mentioned, I believe they're strategic, and we would be foolish not to build them. So there, it's just gonna be a significant amount of money, enough money that I'm watching it.
Joe Shoen: It's slowed a lot. I think Jason thinks it's down $400 million. It's, you know, it's not a... These numbers are a little bit soft, but we've slowed it down. A ground-up self-storage location is probably a 3-year process. So if I slow it down, you won't totally see it till 3 years from now. Now, the other problem is, if I want to speed it up, you won't see it for 3 years. So it's, you know, you got to be a little thoughtful going both ways. So we have slowed it down. I'm still going ahead with what I consider to be strategic. So the U-Box warehouse, as I mentioned, I believe they're strategic, and we would be foolish not to build them.
Speaker #3: So if I slow a ground-up self-storage location, it is probably a down—you won't totally see it until three years from now. Now, the other problem is, if I want to speed it up, you won't see it for three years.
Speaker #3: So, it's a—you've got to be a little thoughtful going both ways. So we have slowed it down. I'm still going ahead with what I consider to be strategic, so the U-Box warehouses I mentioned, I believe they're strategic.
Speaker #3: And we would be foolish not to build them. Although it's going to be a significant amount of money, enough money that I'm watching it.
Joe Shoen: So there, it's just gonna be a significant amount of money, enough money that I'm watching it. For self-storage, we're a little more opportunistic as we're going ahead now. We either think it's a market that we know better than somebody else, and we see an opportunity, or it's something that's semi-distressed. So we just bought a location in Olive Branch, Mississippi. Doesn't mean much to you, but we already had a store there. We bought a second store. We paid well less than three-quarters of the cost of construction for it. And, I think Olive Branch, Mississippi, is gonna do fine over the next 10 years, although, it's probably not on your horizon. But it's a-
Joe Shoen: For self-storage, we're a little more opportunistic as we're going ahead now. We either think it's a market that we know better than somebody else, and we see an opportunity, or it's something that's semi-distressed. So we just bought a location in Olive Branch, Mississippi. Doesn't mean much to you, but we already had a store there. We bought a second store. We paid well less than three-quarters of the cost of construction for it. And, I think Olive Branch, Mississippi, is gonna do fine over the next 10 years, although, it's probably not on your horizon. But it's a-
Speaker #3: self-storage, we're a little more opportunistic as we're going ahead now. We either think it's a market that we know better than somebody else and we see an opportunity, or it's something that's semi-distressed.
Speaker #3: So we just bought a location in Olive Branch, Mississippi. It doesn't mean much to there. We bought a second store. We paid well less And I think Olive Branch, Mississippi, is going to do fine over the next 10 years.
Speaker #3: horizon. than three-quarters of the cost of construction Although it's probably not a good solid for it. an on-year opportunistic when we go ahead with growing area.
James Wilen: Mm-hmm.
James Wilen: Mm-hmm.
Joe Shoen: It's a good, solid, growing area. I determined that was opportunistic, and we go ahead with it.
Joe Shoen: It's a good, solid, growing area. I determined that was opportunistic, and we go ahead with it.
Speaker #3: I determined that was
Speaker #1: Okay. Do you guys have
James Wilen: Okay. You guys have done an excellent job of building value, but less than a stellar job of creating value for shareholders.
James Wilen: Okay. You guys have done an excellent job of building value, but less than a stellar job of creating value for shareholders.
Speaker #1: but less than a stellar job of creating value for
Speaker #3: If I were a
Speaker #3: board pardon me? I'm with
Speaker #3: board pardon me? I'm with shareholders? a board member, here's what I would suggest to you to help crystallize a bit more of that done an excellent job of building value, value.
Joe Shoen: I, I-
Joe Shoen: I, I-
James Wilen: If I were a board member... Pardon me?
James Wilen: If I were a board member... Pardon me?
Joe Shoen: I'm with you on that.
Joe Shoen: I'm with you on that.
James Wilen: Okay. If I were a board member, here's what I would suggest to you to help crystallize a bit more of that value. We all know how undervalued self-storage is relative to the rest of the world, and we'd like to help the investment community, as well as analysts, recognize a bit of that. What I would suggest us doing is selling a territory of well-occupied facilities that don't have U-Box Storage in there because I don't want to eliminate the competitive advantage we have with the rest of the world in U-Box. But I would take an area where we have stabilized occupancies over 80%, like a Tennessee or New Jersey, and hopefully, no U-Box Storage or not much.
James Wilen: Okay. If I were a board member, here's what I would suggest to you to help crystallize a bit more of that value. We all know how undervalued self-storage is relative to the rest of the world, and we'd like to help the investment community, as well as analysts, recognize a bit of that. What I would suggest us doing is selling a territory of well-occupied facilities that don't have U-Box Storage in there because I don't want to eliminate the competitive advantage we have with the rest of the world in U-Box. But I would take an area where we have stabilized occupancies over 80%, like a Tennessee or New Jersey, and hopefully, no U-Box Storage or not much.
Speaker #3: We all know how undervalued self-storage is relative to the rest of the world. And we'd like to help the investment community as well as analysts recognize a bit of that.
Speaker #3: What I would suggest us doing is selling a territory we don't have U-Box storage in, because I don't want to eliminate the competitive advantage we have with well-occupied facilities, with the rest of the world in U-Box.
Speaker #3: But I would take an area where we have stabilized occupancies over 80%, like a Tennessee or new U-Box storage, or not much, to sell that to one of the—and I would want publicly held REITs, which could crystallize the value for how much we have, value if we have traded there, and recycle the proceeds. If we get a billion or two, use half of them for debt, or build new facilities.
James Wilen: I would want to sell that to one of the publicly held REITs, which could crystallize the value for how much we, we value, if we have created there and recycle the proceeds. If we get $1 billion or $2 billion, use half of them to buy back stock, the rest to pay down debt or build new facilities. But it would help crystallize what we've built and hopefully not impact the growth of the core business there. What do you think of that?
James Wilen: I would want to sell that to one of the publicly held REITs, which could crystallize the value for how much we, we value, if we have created there and recycle the proceeds. If we get $1 billion or $2 billion, use half of them to buy back stock, the rest to pay down debt or build new facilities. But it would help crystallize what we've built and hopefully not impact the growth of the core business there. What do you think of that?
Speaker #3: buy back stock, the rest to pay down
Speaker #3: But it would help crystallize what we've built, and hopefully not impact the growth of the core business there. What do you think of
Speaker #3: that? I kind of
Speaker #1: understand the math of it. I won't on the proposal, of course. Part of the opportunity is every one of those bit wary of selling it.
Joe Shoen: I kind of understand the math of it. I won't say I am hot on the proposal. Of course, part of the opportunity is every one of those I work to get, so I'm a little bit wary of selling it. And should the market turn up, we may rue the day we sold it, but I think that's a fair position to explore. I'll explore it a little bit with Jason. He's pretty good on the numbers, so we'll explore that a little bit. The stock buyback, I kind of go both ways on also. I'm not... You know, we went and did the stock dividend and bunch of other stuff, tried to bring some analysts in, changed the exchange.
Joe Shoen: I kind of understand the math of it. I won't say I am hot on the proposal. Of course, part of the opportunity is every one of those I work to get, so I'm a little bit wary of selling it. And should the market turn up, we may rue the day we sold it, but I think that's a fair position to explore. I'll explore it a little bit with Jason. He's pretty good on the numbers, so we'll explore that a little bit. The stock buyback, I kind of go both ways on also. I'm not... You know, we went and did the stock dividend and bunch of other stuff, tried to bring some analysts in, changed the exchange.
Speaker #1: And should the up, we may rue the day we sold it. But I think, market turn, that's a fair position to explore. I'll explore it a little bit with Jason.
Speaker #1: He's a pretty good on the numbers. So we'll explore that a little bit. The stock buyback, I kind of go both ways on also.
Speaker #1: I'm not we went and did the stock dividend and a bunch of other stuff, tried to bring some analysts in, changed the exchange we were going all in an effort to, I guess, improve liquidity or make the stock more interesting to people.
Joe Shoen: We were going all in an effort to, I guess, improve liquidity or make it, the stock, more interesting to people with, I think, very minimal results, okay? I don't think anybody on my end is a stock guru. We don't. We just. That's just not where we all live. I was underwhelmed with the response of the market when we did that. But these are. You know, we have to do something to demonstrate value. Another way to demonstrate value is to put these stores at 90% occupancy. Then, of course, now it's a little bit easier. I'm sitting here with, depending on how you want to count it, somewhere around 80% effective occupancy. Now, it varies by every store, but that's an overall, about a bad estimate.
Joe Shoen: We were going all in an effort to, I guess, improve liquidity or make it, the stock, more interesting to people with, I think, very minimal results, okay? I don't think anybody on my end is a stock guru. We don't. We just. That's just not where we all live. I was underwhelmed with the response of the market when we did that. But these are. You know, we have to do something to demonstrate value. Another way to demonstrate value is to put these stores at 90% occupancy. Then, of course, now it's a little bit easier. I'm sitting here with, depending on how you want to count it, somewhere around 80% effective occupancy. Now, it varies by every store, but that's an overall, about a bad estimate.
Speaker #1: With, I think, very minimal Okay. I don't think results. anybody at my end is a stock guru. We don't we just that's just not where we all live.
Speaker #1: I was underwhelmed with the response of the market when we did that. But these are what we have to do to demonstrate value—put these stores at 90% occupancy.
Speaker #1: Then, of course, now it's a little bit easier. I'm sitting here with, depending on how you want to count 80% effective occupancy. Now, it varies by every store, but that's something to demonstrate value.
Speaker #1: bad estimate. And that's been drug down by every time I open a new it, somewhere around store, I lower that number. market is significantly larger but it's Another way to being mistreated.
Joe Shoen: And that's been dragged down by every time I open a new store, I lower that number. So, I believe that the market is significantly larger, but it's being, let's say, mistreated. The customers are being mistreated by the industry now, and I'm gonna try to see if I can communicate that to the customer, that we're not the ones mistreating them. So we'll see how that goes. But a bunch of people have come into this industry, which you probably know them and I don't, but they're big money operators, and they kind of view storage as a cow to be milked, and I look at it more as a lamb to be petted and taken care of. So, they're a little rough on the customer, would be the nicest way to put it.
Joe Shoen: And that's been dragged down by every time I open a new store, I lower that number. So, I believe that the market is significantly larger, but it's being, let's say, mistreated. The customers are being mistreated by the industry now, and I'm gonna try to see if I can communicate that to the customer, that we're not the ones mistreating them. So we'll see how that goes. But a bunch of people have come into this industry, which you probably know them and I don't, but they're big money operators, and they kind of view storage as a cow to be milked, and I look at it more as a lamb to be petted and taken care of. So, they're a little rough on the customer, would be the nicest way to put it.
Speaker #1: by the industry now. And The customers are being mistreated I'm going to try to see if I can communicate that to the customer that we're not the ones mistreating that goes.
Speaker #1: But a bunch of you. people have come into this industry So we'll see how which you probably know them and I don't. But they're big money, operators, and they kind of view storage as a cow to be milked.
Speaker #1: And I look at it more as a lamb to be petted and taken care of. So they're a little rough on the customer would be the nicest way to put it.
Speaker #1: And I think we can distinguish on our customer service. And I second or third time renting storage. And they know, think there's enough people in the market room.
Joe Shoen: I think we can distinguish on our customer service, and I think there's enough people in the market now, who this is their second or third time renting storage, and they know that a storage room is not a storage room - is not a storage room. We'll see if I can communicate that to the wider group of customers. Overall, I think we've been outperforming our peer group, if you wanted to define that as the big REITs. I believe we've done a better job of being able to maintain rates, and expand customer base. Now, I don't get any numbers of theirs that you don't see, so I don't have any special look into their numbers, but it seems that they're having difficulty holding move-in rates at or above move-out rates. We're still able to maintain a differential there.
Joe Shoen: I think we can distinguish on our customer service, and I think there's enough people in the market now, who this is their second or third time renting storage, and they know that a storage room is not a storage room - is not a storage room. We'll see if I can communicate that to the wider group of customers. Overall, I think we've been outperforming our peer group, if you wanted to define that as the big REITs. I believe we've done a better job of being able to maintain rates, and expand customer base. Now, I don't get any numbers of theirs that you don't see, so I don't have any special look into their numbers, but it seems that they're having difficulty holding move-in rates at or above move-out rates.
Speaker #1: It's not a storage room. We'll see if I can communicate that to the wider group of customers. Overall, I think we've been group, if you wanted to define that as the big outperforming our peer REITs, I believe we've done a better job of being able to maintain rates, and expand customer base.
Speaker #1: Now, I don't get any numbers of theirs that you don't see. So I don't have any special look into their numbers. But it seems that they're having difficulty holding move-in rates at or above move-out rates.
Speaker #1: We're still able to maintain a differential there. I think that's significant. I'm optimistic, I think, till more rooms. But I've got it pretty close to the edge, I think, Jamie, as far as we're pushing somewheres Jason may have a better number.
Joe Shoen: We're still able to maintain a differential there. I think that's significant. I'm optimistic I can fill more rooms, but I've got it pretty close to the edge, I think, Jamie, as far as we're pushing somewheres. Jason may have a better number, 220,000 to 230,000 empty units, something like that.
Joe Shoen: I think that's significant. I'm optimistic I can fill more rooms, but I've got it pretty close to the edge, I think, Jamie, as far as we're pushing somewheres. Jason may have a better number, 220,000 to 230,000 empty units, something like that.
Speaker #1: 220, 230,000 empty units, something like that.
Speaker #2: Hey, if you include the managed portfolio, so you all branded storage were about 290,000 rooms available.
Jason Berg: If you include the managed portfolio, so U-Haul branded stores were about 290,000 rooms available.
Jason Berg: If you include the managed portfolio, so U-Haul branded stores were about 290,000 rooms available.
Speaker #1: Okay. So all those are depending on either a liability or an opportunity. Liability because you're paying for them and getting nothing for it. So as a shareholder, you're probably seeing a little bit as a—we're going to see significant progress in filling those rooms.
Joe Shoen: Okay. So all those are depending either a liability or an opportunity. So as a shareholder, you're probably seeing it a little bit as a liability because you're paying for them and getting nothing for it. I think we're gonna see significant progress in filling those rooms, and that's how I have my teams wound up. At the same time, though we've increased—successfully, we've increased total customers every year in conventional self storage, we've done the same thing. We've introduced something like 100,000 storage customers into U-Box. So from the point of view of operating a facility, that manager is looking at total storage customer base. So, I, I'm not disgusted with our performance, but I think our performance has to be better because we've invested the money.
Joe Shoen: Okay. So all those are depending either a liability or an opportunity. So as a shareholder, you're probably seeing it a little bit as a liability because you're paying for them and getting nothing for it. I think we're gonna see significant progress in filling those rooms, and that's how I have my teams wound up. At the same time, though we've increased—successfully, we've increased total customers every year in conventional self storage, we've done the same thing. We've introduced something like 100,000 storage customers into U-Box. So from the point of view of operating a facility, that manager is looking at total storage customer base. So, I, I'm not disgusted with our performance, but I think our performance has to be better because we've invested the money.
Speaker #1: And that's how I have my teams wound up. At the same time, though we've increased successfully, we've increased total customers every year in conventional self-storage.
Speaker #1: We've done the same thing. We've introduced something like 100,000 storage customers into U-Box. So from the point of view of operating a facility, that manager is looking at the total storage customer base.
Speaker #1: So I'm not disgusted with our performance, but I think our performance has to be better because we've invested the money. But I think we're showing we're resonating with the customer as much or better than anybody else in the business.
Joe Shoen: I think we're showing we're resonating with the customer as much or better than anybody else in the business.
Joe Shoen: I think we're showing we're resonating with the customer as much or better than anybody else in the business.
Speaker #2: And I believe you have two customers here. One is the person who rents your storage facilities and truck rentals. And the other customer is investors.
James Wilen: I believe you have two customers here. One is the person who rents your storage facilities and truck rentals, and the other customer are investors. Investors would love to see you harvest some of the value you've created, where you've turned a dollar into four, but we can't see it.
James Wilen: I believe you have two customers here. One is the person who rents your storage facilities and truck rentals, and the other customer are investors. Investors would love to see you harvest some of the value you've created, where you've turned a dollar into four, but we can't see it.
Speaker #2: And investors would love to see you harvest some of the value you've created where you've turned a dollar into four, but we can't see
Speaker #2: it. So whatever you can Okay. do in that respect would be a good thing
Joe Shoen: Okay.
Joe Shoen: Okay.
James Wilen: So, whatever you can do in that respect would be a good thing for-
James Wilen: So, whatever you can do in that respect would be a good thing for-
Speaker #2: for. The I got it.
Speaker #2: discount. It's a consolation.
Joe Shoen: I got it.
Joe Shoen: I got it.
James Wilen: For this customer.
James Wilen: For this customer.
Speaker #1: I'm 76. I'm kind of getting a little closer to wanting to see the goose lacing gold pigs
Joe Shoen: It's a consolation. I'm 76, so I'm kind of getting a little closer to wanting to see the goose lace and gold things, too. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate your thoughts.
Joe Shoen: It's a consolation. I'm 76, so I'm kind of getting a little closer to wanting to see the goose lace and gold things, too. All right. Thank you very much. I appreciate your thoughts.
Speaker #1: too. All right.
Speaker #2: Thank you very much.
Speaker #1: Thank you very much. I appreciate your thoughts.
Speaker #2: Very good. Thank
Speaker #2: you. Thank you once
James Wilen: Very good. Thank you.
James Wilen: Very good. Thank you.
Speaker #3: Again, please press star one should you wish to ask a question. And your next question is from Steven Ralston from Exact. Is your line open?
Operator: Thank you. Once again, please press star one, should you wish to ask a question. Your next question is from Steven Ralston, from Zacks. Your line is now open.
Operator: Thank you. Once again, please press star one, should you wish to ask a question. Your next question is from Steven Ralston, from Zacks. Your line is now open.
Speaker #4: Thank you. I just want to circle back around and tap Joe's experience and get his historical perspective. You pointed out that you're in a very unique period with the emphasis on EV vehicles and the demand that came through COVID.
Steven Ralston: Thank you. I just want to circle back around in Tapjo's experience and get his historical perspective. You've pointed out that you're in a very unique period with the emphasis on EV vehicles and the demand that came through COVID. When you think about the situation in your past, does it remind you of any time in the past where you and resolved the situation and how it happened, and you use that as like key markers in managing the company?
Steven Ralston: Thank you. I just want to circle back around in Tapjo's experience and get his historical perspective. You've pointed out that you're in a very unique period with the emphasis on EV vehicles and the demand that came through COVID. When you think about the situation in your past, does it remind you of any time in the past where you and resolved the situation and how it happened, and you use that as like key markers in managing the company?
Speaker #4: When you think about the situation in your past, does it remind you of any time in the past where you and resolved the situation and how it happened and you used that as key markers in managing the company?
Speaker #1: In a general sense, yes. But in fleet, we've always been able to buy all the fleet we had money for. Our problem up until recently was, we always were capital constrained.
Joe Shoen: In a general sense, yes, but in fleet, we've always been able to buy all the fleet we had money for. Our problem up until recently was we always were capital constrained, and then this flipped COVID and post-COVID, and we can buy what someone says we can have. That's that. We don't have a lot of markers in there. But of course, we're working on it regularly, and I think if I had to do this all over again, coming out of COVID, or I'll say post-COVID, I would not have. When they went on allocation, I'd have told them to keep their trucks. That's what I'll tell them next time. They keep their trucks, and when they jack prices, they can keep their trucks. Because I can sweat out two, three, four years, and I think my customer will support me.
Joe Shoen: In a general sense, yes, but in fleet, we've always been able to buy all the fleet we had money for. Our problem up until recently was we always were capital constrained, and then this flipped COVID and post-COVID, and we can buy what someone says we can have. That's that. We don't have a lot of markers in there. But of course, we're working on it regularly, and I think if I had to do this all over again, coming out of COVID, or I'll say post-COVID, I would not have. When they went on allocation, I'd have told them to keep their trucks. That's what I'll tell them next time. They keep their trucks, and when they jack prices, they can keep their trucks. Because I can sweat out two, three, four years, and I think my customer will support me.
Speaker #1: And then this flipped. COVID and post-COVID, and we can buy what someone says we can have. That's that we don't have a lot of markers in there.
Speaker #1: But of course, we're working on it regularly. And I think if I had to do this all over again, coming out of COVID or I'll say post-COVID, I would not have when they went on allocation, I'd have told them to keep their trucks.
Speaker #1: That's what I'll tell them next time. They keep their trucks and when they jack prices, they can keep their trucks. Because I can sweat out two, three, four years and I think my customer will support me I think I was overeager to buy trucks because we had such a nice balance in '16.
Joe Shoen: I think I was overeager to buy trucks because we had such a nice balance in '16. I wanted to get back to that balance quickly, and I didn't stand firm enough when they came through with massive price increases. I just don't know that it weren't. It's unsupportable. Now, they had all this talk, and we all saw it, and I think everybody's a little guilty of this, of saying that, as Mary Barra did, she had something, I don't know, after 2037 or something, GM will not make an internal combustion engine. Well, if you're on my end of the deal, that's a frightening thought because the other ones don't run, you see? So you can see how I fell into the trap of thinking, Well, hell, if she's not going to build any.
Joe Shoen: I think I was overeager to buy trucks because we had such a nice balance in '16. I wanted to get back to that balance quickly, and I didn't stand firm enough when they came through with massive price increases. I just don't know that it weren't. It's unsupportable. Now, they had all this talk, and we all saw it, and I think everybody's a little guilty of this, of saying that, as Mary Barra did, she had something, I don't know, after 2037 or something, GM will not make an internal combustion engine. Well, if you're on my end of the deal, that's a frightening thought because the other ones don't run, you see? So you can see how I fell into the trap of thinking, Well, hell, if she's not going to build any.
Speaker #1: I wanted to get back to that balance quickly. And I didn't stand firm enough when they came through with massive price increases to just tell them that it's unsupportable.
Speaker #1: Now, they had all this talk, and we all saw it, and I think everybody's a little guilty of this. Saying that, as Mary Barra did, she had something—I don't know, after 2037 or something—GM will not make an internal combustion engine.
Speaker #1: Well, if you're on my end of the deal, that's a frightening thought because the other see? So you can see how ones don't run.
Speaker #1: You I fell into the trap of thinking, well, hell, if she's not going to build any, then my friends at Ford didn't make quite as broad a statement.
Joe Shoen: And then my friends at Ford didn't make quite as broad a statement, but practically speaking, they were running their investment as if they were no longer going to make it. An example, they quit the second shift at one of their truck plants, but we've been the beneficiaries of that second shift for at least 10 years. So when they quit a second shift to that plant, I go, where the hell is trucks going to come from? So I think we'd have come out better if we'd have just let the fleet age by just what suited us and just at the price that suited us, and we wouldn't be trying to digest all this excess cost.
Joe Shoen: And then my friends at Ford didn't make quite as broad a statement, but practically speaking, they were running their investment as if they were no longer going to make it. An example, they quit the second shift at one of their truck plants, but we've been the beneficiaries of that second shift for at least 10 years. So when they quit a second shift to that plant, I go, where the hell is trucks going to come from? So I think we'd have come out better if we'd have just let the fleet age by just what suited us and just at the price that suited us, and we wouldn't be trying to digest all this excess cost.
Speaker #1: But practically speaking, they were running their investment as if they were no longer going to make it. An example, they quit the second shift at one of their truck plants, but we've been the beneficiaries of that second shift for at least 10 years.
Speaker #1: So when they quit a second shift at that plant, I go, where the hell are trucks going to come from? So I think we'd have come out better if we'd have just let the fleet age by just what suited us and just at the price that suited us.
Speaker #1: And we wouldn't be trying to digest all this excess cost. But that's not what happens. So now we got to digest it and want to work it in a way that it doesn't come back and plague people who are trying to make fleet decisions five and six years from now.
Joe Shoen: But that's not what happened, so now we got to digest it and want to work it in a way that it doesn't come back and plague people who are trying to make fleet decisions 5 and 6 years from now. I want to try to smooth it out, and so that's causing us in some models to buy a few more trucks than an analyst would justify. But when you look at the age of the truck and what that's going to do to you going ahead, I think experience tells me you want to buy some trucks. So, so no, I don't have a marker, an experience on this. Self-storage, I have a lot of markers and experience on that.
Joe Shoen: But that's not what happened, so now we got to digest it and want to work it in a way that it doesn't come back and plague people who are trying to make fleet decisions 5 and 6 years from now. I want to try to smooth it out, and so that's causing us in some models to buy a few more trucks than an analyst would justify. But when you look at the age of the truck and what that's going to do to you going ahead, I think experience tells me you want to buy some trucks. So, so no, I don't have a marker, an experience on this. Self-storage, I have a lot of markers and experience on that.
Speaker #1: I want to try to smooth it out. And so that's causing us in some models to buy a few more trucks than an analyst would justify.
Speaker #1: But when you look at the age of the truck and what that's going to do to you going ahead, I think experience tells me you want to buy some trucks.
Speaker #1: So no, I don't have a marker, an experience on this. Self-storage, I have a lot of markers and experience on. I'm fairly confident that that's that those are all good money bets.
Joe Shoen: Fairly confident that that's that those are all good money bets, but the timing is too slow, and it's not enough to command investor support, which I understand. I'm an investor here, too. So, but we have markers. I, you know, we can look at market penetration by various markets and storage market penetration. The demand for that product has far exceeded anyone's expectations. I think you could say that of any of the major companies. None of them really appreciated how much demand there was for that product or there is for that product, and it's still being served in a spotty fashion. So filling in those gaps is an opportunity for someone if they can identify them and then get them filled in.
Joe Shoen: Fairly confident that that's that those are all good money bets, but the timing is too slow, and it's not enough to command investor support, which I understand. I'm an investor here, too. So, but we have markers. I, you know, we can look at market penetration by various markets and storage market penetration. The demand for that product has far exceeded anyone's expectations. I think you could say that of any of the major companies. None of them really appreciated how much demand there was for that product or there is for that product, and it's still being served in a spotty fashion. So filling in those gaps is an opportunity for someone if they can identify them and then get them filled in.
Speaker #1: But the timing is too slow and it's not enough to command investor support, which I understand. I'm an investor here too. So we have markers.
Speaker #1: We can look at market penetration by various markets, and storage market penetration—the demand for that product has far exceeded anyone's expectations. I think you could say that of any of the major companies.
Speaker #1: None of them really appreciated how much demand there was for that product or there is for that product. And it's still being served in a spotty fashion.
Speaker #1: So filling in those gaps is an opportunity for someone if they can identify them and then get them filled in.
Speaker #4: Thank you for sharing that historical perspective. I appreciate it.
Steven Ralston: Thank you for sharing that, historical perspective. I appreciate it.
Steven Ralston: Thank you for sharing that, historical perspective. I appreciate it.
Speaker #1: Sure.
Joe Shoen: Sure.
Joe Shoen: Sure.
Speaker #3: Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Sebastien Reyes for closing remarks.
Operator: Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Sebastien Reyes for closing remarks.
Operator: Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I will now turn the call back over to Sebastien Reyes for closing remarks.
Sebastien Reyes: Thanks, Jenny. I have one question that I wanted to pose here, that came in during the call. U-Haul's profit margins, excluding depreciation, have been in constant decline for the last decade. Please explain why margins have been so persistently weak since 2016, and please explain your plan to restore the profitability of this great company.
Sebastien Reyes: Thanks, Jenny. I have one question that I wanted to pose here, that came in during the call. U-Haul's profit margins, excluding depreciation, have been in constant decline for the last decade. Please explain why margins have been so persistently weak since 2016, and please explain your plan to restore the profitability of this great company.
Speaker #2: pose here that came in during the Thanks, Jenny. I have one question that I wanted to call. U-Haul's profit margins excluding depreciation have been in constant decline for the last decade.
Speaker #2: Please explain why margins have been so persistently weak since 2016, and please explain your plan to restore the profitability of this great company.
Speaker #1: Well, this is Jason. I'll take that one. Well, 2016 is picking a high point of our EBITDA margin. So that our earnings over the history of the company have been a little bit cyclical, largely in relation to how much we expand the organization over certain timeframes.
Jason Berg: Well, this is Jason. I'll take that one. Well, 2016 is picking the high point of our EBITDA margin. So that's... Our earnings over the history of the company have been a little bit cyclical, largely in relation to how much we expand the organization over a certain time frame. So to pick 2016, which I think was maybe 35, 36% EBITDA margin, the 10 years before that, our EBITDA margin was 25%. The 10 years since 2016, our average EBITDA margin has been 33%.
Jason Berg: Well, this is Jason. I'll take that one. Well, 2016 is picking the high point of our EBITDA margin. So that's... Our earnings over the history of the company have been a little bit cyclical, largely in relation to how much we expand the organization over a certain time frame. So to pick 2016, which I think was maybe 35, 36% EBITDA margin, the 10 years before that, our EBITDA margin was 25%. The 10 years since 2016, our average EBITDA margin has been 33%.
Speaker #1: So to pick 2016, which I think was maybe 35, 36 percent EBITDA margin, the 10 years before that, our EBITDA margin was 25%. The 10 years since 2016, our average EBITDA margin has been 33%.
Speaker #1: So there has been actually a structural improvement in how the organization has been run. And we've included a slide that shows this trend of improving EBITDA margins that I don't think it's happenstance that it coincides with our growth in the self-storage in the U-Box market.
Jason Berg: So there has been actually a structural improvement in how the organization has been run, and we've included a slide that shows this trend of improving EBITDA margins that I don't think it's happenstance, that it coincides with our growth in the self-storage and the U-Box market. Since fiscal 2016, we've had some up years and down years. I would say that during COVID years, where we got back up to the mid-30 percent range, there was some recognition of revenue and not the recognition of the associated expenses that went along with it. So for example, the repair and maintenance that we were incurring during the work from home phase, where revenue shot up, under current accounting rules, you can't accrue for expected maintenance based upon how much the truck is going right now.
Jason Berg: So there has been actually a structural improvement in how the organization has been run, and we've included a slide that shows this trend of improving EBITDA margins that I don't think it's happenstance, that it coincides with our growth in the self-storage and the U-Box market. Since fiscal 2016, we've had some up years and down years. I would say that during COVID years, where we got back up to the mid-30 percent range, there was some recognition of revenue and not the recognition of the associated expenses that went along with it. So for example, the repair and maintenance that we were incurring during the work from home phase, where revenue shot up, under current accounting rules, you can't accrue for expected maintenance based upon how much the truck is going right now.
Speaker #1: Since fiscal '16, we've had some up years and down years. I would say that during COVID, years where we got back up to the mid-30% range, there was some recognition of revenue and not the recognition of the associated expenses that went along with it.
Speaker #1: So for example, the repair and maintenance that we were incurring during the work-from-home phase where revenue shot up under current accounting rules, you can't accrue for expected maintenance based upon how much the truck is going right now.
Speaker #1: So we accrued all of these miles and recognized the revenue and then there was a couple of years after that that we've been paying for the repair and expense associated with that.
Jason Berg: So we accrued all of these miles and recognized the revenue, and then there was a couple years after that, that we've been paying for the repair and expense associated with that. Then we also had the somewhat idiosyncratic event where our former auditors failed to see the wisdom in how we chose to reserve for our self-insurance liabilities, and they took $88 million out of our self-insurance reserves in order to sign the opinion. And now, over time, I think we've seen that we would have been much better off to leave those reserves on the books, and that would have been a little bit more of a shock absorber, right? Because during COVID, transactions increased, so the rate of incident, potential incidents increased.
Jason Berg: So we accrued all of these miles and recognized the revenue, and then there was a couple years after that, that we've been paying for the repair and expense associated with that. Then we also had the somewhat idiosyncratic event where our former auditors failed to see the wisdom in how we chose to reserve for our self-insurance liabilities, and they took $88 million out of our self-insurance reserves in order to sign the opinion. And now, over time, I think we've seen that we would have been much better off to leave those reserves on the books, and that would have been a little bit more of a shock absorber, right? Because during COVID, transactions increased, so the rate of incident, potential incidents increased.
Speaker #1: Then we also had the somewhat idiosyncratic event where our former auditors failed to see the wisdom in how we chose to reserve for our self-insurance liabilities.
Speaker #1: And they took 80, I think it was $88 million out of our self-insurance reserves in order to sign the opinion. And now over time, I think we've seen that we would have been much better off to leave those reserves on the books and that would have been a little bit more of a shock absorber, right?
Speaker #1: Because during COVID, transactions increased. So, the rate of incidents and potential incidents increased. Well, now we're dealing with those incidents that happened back then as they are developing—they're becoming a little bit worse than what was originally thought.
Jason Berg: Well, now we're dealing with, as those incidents that happened back then are developing, they're becoming a little bit worse than what was originally thought. You know, it's always, you know, ifs and buts, but for this quarter, if we had a normal U-Move revenue quarter of 4% growth, and we didn't have the reserve strengthening, we would be looking at an average EBITDA margin. So I'm hesitant to agree with the premise that there's something structurally wrong with the how we're operating the business from an expense perspective. I would say that it's a revenue issue, and then it's a cycle. We've been in an unprecedented growth cycle, how much we've grown the fleet and how much we've grown self-storage.
Jason Berg: Well, now we're dealing with, as those incidents that happened back then are developing, they're becoming a little bit worse than what was originally thought. You know, it's always, you know, ifs and buts, but for this quarter, if we had a normal U-Move revenue quarter of 4% growth, and we didn't have the reserve strengthening, we would be looking at an average EBITDA margin. So I'm hesitant to agree with the premise that there's something structurally wrong with the how we're operating the business from an expense perspective. I would say that it's a revenue issue, and then it's a cycle. We've been in an unprecedented growth cycle, how much we've grown the fleet and how much we've grown self-storage.
Speaker #1: It's always ifs and buts, but for this quarter, if we had a normal U-Move revenue quarter of 4% growth and we didn't have the reserve strengthening, we would be looking at an average EBITDA margin.
Speaker #1: So I'm hesitant to agree with the premise that there's something structurally wrong with the how we're operating the business from an expense perspective. I would say that it's a revenue issue and then it's a cycle.
Speaker #1: And we've been in an unprecedented growth cycle how much we've grown the fleet and how much we've grown self-storage. And frankly, I think we've done a reasonably good job in keeping the EBITDA margins where they're at while we're going through this process.
Jason Berg: And frankly, I, I think we've done a reasonably good job in keeping the EBITDA margins where they're at while we're going through this process. Now all of that to say, a decent EBITDA margin for us over a 12-month period is gonna be in the low 30% ranges, and we are underperforming that this year.
Jason Berg: And frankly, I, I think we've done a reasonably good job in keeping the EBITDA margins where they're at while we're going through this process. Now all of that to say, a decent EBITDA margin for us over a 12-month period is gonna be in the low 30% ranges, and we are underperforming that this year.
Speaker #1: Now, all that to say, a decent EBITDA margin for us over a 12-month period is going to be in the low 30% ranges. And we are underperforming that this year.
Speaker #2: Well, thanks again, everyone, for your participation. We look forward to speaking with you again after we report our year-end results in May. Thanks.
Sebastien Reyes: Well, thanks again, everyone, for your participation. We look forward to speaking with you again after we report our year-end results in May. Thanks.
Sebastien Reyes: Well, thanks again, everyone, for your participation. We look forward to speaking with you again after we report our year-end results in May. Thanks.
Operator: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. The conference has now ended. Thank you all for joining, and you may all disconnect your lines.
Operator: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. The conference has now ended. Thank you all for joining, and you may all disconnect your lines.
