Primis Financial Q4 2025 Primis Financial Corp Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q4 2025 Primis Financial Corp Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Thank you for standing by, and welcome to the Primis Financial Corp. Fourth Quarter Earnings Conference Call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise.
Speaker #1: After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question and answer session. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad.
Speaker #1: If you would like to withdraw your question, again, press star one. Thank you. I'd now like to turn the call over to Matt Switzer, Q Financial Officer.
Speaker #1: You may begin.
Speaker #2: Good morning, and thank you for joining us for Primis Financial Corp.'s 2025 fourth quarter webcast and conference call. Before we begin, please note that many of our comments during this call will be forward-looking statements, which involve risk and uncertainty.
Matthew A. Switzer: Good morning, and thank you for joining us for Primis Financial Corp's 2025 Q4 webcast and conference call. Before we begin, please note that many of our comments during this call will be forward-looking statements, which involve risk and uncertainty. There are many factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from the anticipated results or other expectations expressed in the forward-looking statements. Further discussion of the company's risk factors and other important information regarding our forward-looking statements are part of our recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our recently filed earnings release, which has also been posted to the investor relations section of our corporate site, primisbank.com. We undertake no obligation to update or revise forward-looking statements to reflect changed assumptions, the occurrence of unanticipated events, or changes to future operating results over time.
Matthew A. Switzer: Good morning, and thank you for joining us for Primis Financial Corp's 2025 Q4 webcast and conference call. Before we begin, please note that many of our comments during this call will be forward-looking statements, which involve risk and uncertainty. There are many factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from the anticipated results or other expectations expressed in the forward-looking statements. Further discussion of the company's risk factors and other important information regarding our forward-looking statements are part of our recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our recently filed earnings release, which has also been posted to the investor relations section of our corporate site, primisbank.com. We undertake no obligation to update or revise forward-looking statements to reflect changed assumptions, the occurrence of unanticipated events, or changes to future operating results over time.
Speaker #2: There are many factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from the anticipated results or other expectations expressed in the forward-looking statements. Further discussion of the company's risk factors and other important information regarding our forward-looking statements are part of our recent filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, including our recently filed earnings release, which has also been posted to the Investor Relations section of our corporate site, primisbank.com.
Speaker #2: We undertake no obligation to update or revise forward-looking statements to reflect changed assumptions, the occurrence of unanticipated events, or changes to future operating results over time.
Speaker #2: In addition, some of the financial measures that we may discuss this morning are non-GAAP financial measures. How a non-GAAP measure relates to the most comparable GAAP measure will be discussed when the non-GAAP measures used are not readily apparent.
Matthew A. Switzer: In addition, some of the financial measures that we may discuss this morning are non-GAAP financial measures. How a non-GAAP measure relates to the most comparable GAAP measure will be discussed when the non-GAAP measure is used, if not readily apparent. I will now turn the call over to our President and Chief Executive Officer, Dennis Zember.
In addition, some of the financial measures that we may discuss this morning are non-GAAP financial measures. How a non-GAAP measure relates to the most comparable GAAP measure will be discussed when the non-GAAP measure is used, if not readily apparent. I will now turn the call over to our President and Chief Executive Officer, Dennis Zember.
Speaker #2: I will now turn the call over to our president and chief executive officer, Dennis
Speaker #2: Zember. Thank you, Matt.
Dennis J. Zember: Thank you, Matt, and thank you to all of you that have joined our Q4 2025 conference call. We're very pleased to be reporting our 2025 results today and, and really excited about what 2026 is going to look like. For the quarter, we're reporting earnings of $29.5 million or $1.20 per share, which works out to almost a 3% ROA. I tell people all the time that your best result ever isn't good enough tomorrow, and that you have to strive to keep reaching higher, which may have trapped me. But obviously, in the quarter, we had the substantial gain from the sale leaseback and quite a bit of related noise from the restructure and some other items that we were afforded because of the outsized gain.
Dennis Zember: Thank you, Matt, and thank you to all of you that have joined our Q4 2025 conference call. We're very pleased to be reporting our 2025 results today and, and really excited about what 2026 is going to look like. For the quarter, we're reporting earnings of $29.5 million or $1.20 per share, which works out to almost a 3% ROA. I tell people all the time that your best result ever isn't good enough tomorrow, and that you have to strive to keep reaching higher, which may have trapped me. But obviously, in the quarter, we had the substantial gain from the sale leaseback and quite a bit of related noise from the restructure and some other items that we were afforded because of the outsized gain.
Speaker #3: And thank you to all of you that have joined our fourth quarter 2025 conference call. We're very pleased to be reporting our 25 results today and really excited about what 26 is going to look like.
Speaker #3: For the quarter, we're reporting earnings of $29.5 million, or $1.20 per share, which works out to almost a 3% ROA. I tell people all the time that your best result ever isn't good enough tomorrow, and that you have to strive to keep reaching higher, which may have trapped me.
Speaker #3: But obviously, in the quarter, we had the substantial gain from the sell-leaseback, and quite a bit of related noise. And from the restructure, and some other items that we were afforded because of the outsized gain.
Speaker #3: The most important thing you can take away from this call is this: in the fourth quarter of '25, Matt and I are showing our run-rate earnings at about $8 million.
Dennis J. Zember: The most important thing you can take away from this call is this: in the fourth quarter of 2025, Matt and I are showing our run rate earnings at about $8 million, which works out to about an 80 basis point ROA on about $4 billion of average assets. That reflects virtually no improvement from the restructure that we announced, and it includes a seasonally slow quarter of mortgage. So taken together, going into 2026, we see substantial momentum and a lot of opportunity to hit our goals. I want to talk about some of the real notable improvements this year. When you look at fourth quarter or you look at December 31 of any year versus the prior year, you know, what do you notice?
The most important thing you can take away from this call is this: in the fourth quarter of 2025, Matt and I are showing our run rate earnings at about $8 million, which works out to about an 80 basis point ROA on about $4 billion of average assets. That reflects virtually no improvement from the restructure that we announced, and it includes a seasonally slow quarter of mortgage. So taken together, going into 2026, we see substantial momentum and a lot of opportunity to hit our goals. I want to talk about some of the real notable improvements this year. When you look at Q4 or you look at December 31 of any year versus the prior year, you know, what do you notice?
Speaker #3: Which works out to about an 80 basis point ROA on about $4 billion of average assets. That reflects virtually no improvement from the restructure that we announced, and it includes a seasonally slow quarter of mortgage.
Speaker #3: So, taken together, going into '26, we see substantial momentum and a lot of opportunity to hit our goals. I want to talk about some of the real notable improvements this year.
Speaker #3: When you look at the fourth quarter, or you look at December '31 of any year versus the prior year, what do you notice? For us, we noticed that our margin increased from 290 in the fourth quarter of last year to 328 in the fourth quarter of this year.
Dennis J. Zember: For us, we noticed that our margin increased from 2.90 in the Q4 of last year to 3.28 in the Q4 of this year. Excuse me. That the restructure had virtually no impact on Q4 margins, and our press release showed that that, when it's fully implemented, would add about 28 basis points. Pushing this kind of margin in our company to a place where 3.5% margins are in range is very impressive against our peer group, and our region, and our core bank has led the drive. Next, we grew checking accounts, which has been a big focus of our bank. Next, we grew checking accounts by over 23% during the year....
For us, we noticed that our margin increased from 2.90 in the Q4 of last year to 3.28 in the Q4 of this year. Excuse me. That the restructure had virtually no impact on Q4 margins, and our press release showed that that, when it's fully implemented, would add about 28 basis points. Pushing this kind of margin in our company to a place where 3.5% margins are in range is very impressive against our peer group, and our region, and our core bank has led the drive. Next, we grew checking accounts, which has been a big focus of our bank. Next, we grew checking accounts by over 23% during the year....
Speaker #3: Excuse restructure included restructure had virtually no impact on fourth quarter margins. And our press release showed that that, when it's fully implemented, would add about 28 basis points.
Speaker #3: Pushing this kind of margin in our company to a place where 3.5% margins are in range is very impressive against our peer group and our region.
Speaker #3: And our core bank has led the drive. Next, we group checking accounts, which has been a very—which has been a big focus of our bank.
Speaker #3: Next, we group-checking accounts by over 23% during the year. Talk a little more about this, but from a percentage basis, we have to be in the top 10 banks nationwide on checking account growth.
Dennis J. Zember: Talk a little more about this, but from a percentage basis, we have to be in the top 10 banks nationwide on checking account growth. We achieved this by leveraging our proprietary delivery app in our market and abroad. We grew our C&I portfolio substantially and saw the normal deposit balances you would expect from this effort show up. We benefited from our warehouse division's effort, selling our treasury services to their clients. We improved our non-interest bearing deposits to total deposits from 12, 13% in mid 2024 to 16.3% at 31 December 2025. We've been even higher than that early this year. Most importantly, we continue to fund nearly every dollar of earning asset growth with transaction accounts, not retail or brokerage CDs or wholesale borrowings.
Talk a little more about this, but from a percentage basis, we have to be in the top 10 banks nationwide on checking account growth. We achieved this by leveraging our proprietary delivery app in our market and abroad. We grew our C&I portfolio substantially and saw the normal deposit balances you would expect from this effort show up. We benefited from our warehouse division's effort, selling our treasury services to their clients. We improved our non-interest bearing deposits to total deposits from 12, 13% in mid 2024 to 16.3% at 31 December 2025. We've been even higher than that early this year. Most importantly, we continue to fund nearly every dollar of earning asset growth with transaction accounts, not retail or brokerage CDs or wholesale borrowings.
Speaker #3: We achieved this by leveraging our proprietary delivery app in our market and abroad. We grew our C&I portfolio substantially and saw the normal deposit balances you would expect from this effort show up.
Speaker #3: We benefited from our warehouse division's effort selling our treasury services to their clients. We improved our non-interest-bearing deposits to total deposits from 12.13% in mid '24 to 16.3% at 12/31/25.
Speaker #3: We've been even higher than that early this year. Most importantly, we continue to fund nearly every dollar of earning asset growth with transaction accounts, not retail or brokerage CDs, or wholesale borrowings.
Speaker #3: Lastly, we rebuilt our earning assets just like we said we would after the life premium sale, with balances from the core bank and our lending divisions, and we did it with much more yield and scale than we had in life premium.
Dennis J. Zember: Lastly, we rebuilt our earning assets just like we said we would after the life premium sale, with balances from the core bank and our lending divisions, and we did it with much more yield and scale than we had in life premium. For the year, we grew earning assets by $325 million, with a larger growth in the loan side. We held our yield steady compared to 2024, with loans only dropping 10 basis points despite the fall in short-term rates during the year. Where are all these successes coming from? And, you know, why are we confident that there's more to come here? Our core bank has led the way this year in almost all of the areas, particularly on deposit growth and driving success with cost of funds.
Lastly, we rebuilt our earning assets just like we said we would after the life premium sale, with balances from the core bank and our lending divisions, and we did it with much more yield and scale than we had in life premium. For the year, we grew earning assets by $325 million, with a larger growth in the loan side. We held our yield steady compared to 2024, with loans only dropping 10 basis points despite the fall in short-term rates during the year. Where are all these successes coming from? And, you know, why are we confident that there's more to come here? Our core bank has led the way this year in almost all of the areas, particularly on deposit growth and driving success with cost of funds.
Speaker #3: For the year, we grew earning assets by $325 million, with a larger growth in the loan side. We held our yield steady compared to '24, with loans only dropping 10 basis points despite the fall in short-term rates during the year.
Speaker #3: Where are all these successes coming from? And why are we confident that there's more to come here? Our core bank has led the way this year in almost all of the areas, particularly on deposit growth and driving success with cost of funds.
Speaker #3: For the year, I’m showing that we group-checking accounts by about $116 million. This is about 23%, as I stated earlier. On the loan side, our focus—excuse me—our focus has been on C&I and owner-occupied, as it has been for as long as we can remember.
Dennis J. Zember: For the year, I'm showing that we grew checking accounts by about $116 million, which is about 23%, as I stated earlier. On the loan side, our focus, excuse me, our focus has been on C&I and owner-occupied, as it, you know, for as long as we can remember. And as we finished the year, we saw a real flurry of loan closings and sale success that are gonna carry over into 2026. In December alone, the core bank closed about $75 million of new commercial loans with about $90 million of related deposits. Importantly, the incremental margins on this business are almost 4%, with no incremental operating resources or new staff. So we achieved the operating leverage that Matt and I have been talking about, and that has been the driver of our 2025 improvements.
For the year, I'm showing that we grew checking accounts by about $116 million, which is about 23%, as I stated earlier. On the loan side, our focus, excuse me, our focus has been on C&I and owner-occupied, as it, you know, for as long as we can remember. And as we finished the year, we saw a real flurry of loan closings and sale success that are gonna carry over into 2026. In December alone, the core bank closed about $75 million of new commercial loans with about $90 million of related deposits. Importantly, the incremental margins on this business are almost 4%, with no incremental operating resources or new staff. So we achieved the operating leverage that Matt and I have been talking about, and that has been the driver of our 2025 improvements.
Speaker #3: And as we finished the year, we saw a real flurry of loan closings and sales success that are going to carry over into '26.
Speaker #3: In December alone, the core bank closed about $75 million of new commercial loans, with about $90 million of related deposits. Importantly, the incremental margins on this business are almost 4%, with no incremental operating resources or new staff.
Speaker #3: So, we achieved the operating leverage that Matt and I have been talking about, and that has been the driver of our 25% improvements. In the fourth quarter, we rolled the digital platform up under the core bank's reporting arm.
Dennis J. Zember: In Q4, we rolled the digital platform up under the core bank's reporting arm. So now everything facing the bank customer reports to Rick. We finished 2025 with $993 million in digital deposits, which is down maybe less than 10% from where we were a year ago, despite the fact that the rate is down 115 basis points. We have over 20,000 customers on this platform, about 15% of those in our core footprint. Because of the success of this platform, there is not a single ounce of pressure on our core bank's deposit goals, production efforts, or pricing, which is reflected in their remarkably low cost of deposits.
In Q4, we rolled the digital platform up under the core bank's reporting arm. So now everything facing the bank customer reports to Rick. We finished 2025 with $993 million in digital deposits, which is down maybe less than 10% from where we were a year ago, despite the fact that the rate is down 115 basis points. We have over 20,000 customers on this platform, about 15% of those in our core footprint. Because of the success of this platform, there is not a single ounce of pressure on our core bank's deposit goals, production efforts, or pricing, which is reflected in their remarkably low cost of deposits.
Speaker #3: So now everything facing the bank customer reports to Rick. We finished '25 with $993 million in digital deposits, which is down maybe less than 10% from where we were a year ago.
Speaker #3: Despite the fact that the rate is down 115 basis points, we have over 20,000 customers. On this platform, about 15% of those are in our core footprint.
Speaker #3: Because of the success of this platform, there is not a single ounce of pressure on our core bank's deposit goals production efforts, or pricing, which is reflected in their remarkably low cost of deposits.
Speaker #3: Through the year, and the changes in rates, we've maintained 90% of the balances, which is unquestionably a testament to our style of surprising the customer with a personal banker, 24/7 access to the bank, rapid turnaround on any question or concern, and near-zero fraud.
Dennis J. Zember: Through the year and the changes in rates, we've maintained 90% of the balances, which is unquestionably a testament to our style of surprising the customer with a personal banker, 24/7 access to the bank, rapid turnaround on any question or concern, and near zero fraud. In short, we engineered a community-style banking approach for these customers, and when rates started falling, excuse me, falling, they rewarded us with their loyalty. I think a key success or something that's... All those are important items, but the thing that's really driving the bottom line improvement or the ROA improvement is operating leverage. As for maybe 2 years, we have controlled and reworked our operating expense base. We've invested only in production and revenue personnel, and we've leveraged our back office, or we've leveraged our back-office resources on the growth.
Through the year and the changes in rates, we've maintained 90% of the balances, which is unquestionably a testament to our style of surprising the customer with a personal banker, 24/7 access to the bank, rapid turnaround on any question or concern, and near zero fraud. In short, we engineered a community-style banking approach for these customers, and when rates started falling, excuse me, falling, they rewarded us with their loyalty. I think a key success or something that's... All those are important items, but the thing that's really driving the bottom line improvement or the ROA improvement is operating leverage. As for maybe 2 years, we have controlled and reworked our operating expense base. We've invested only in production and revenue personnel, and we've leveraged our back office, or we've leveraged our back-office resources on the growth.
Speaker #3: In short, we engineered a community-style banking approach for these customers, and when rates started falling, they rewarded us with their loyalty.
Speaker #3: Think of key success or something that's—all those are important items, but the thing that's really driving the bottom line improvement or the ROA improvement is operating leverage.
Speaker #3: As for maybe two years, we have controlled and we reworked our operating expense base. We've invested only in production and revenue personnel, and we've leveraged our back office—we've leveraged our back office resources on the growth.
Speaker #3: Every moment of turnover or attrition on our administrative functions has been an opportunity to improve talent and drive more leverage, and we've not really missed any opportunity.
Dennis J. Zember: Every moment of turnover or attrition on our administrative functions has been an opportunity to improve talent and drive more leverage, and we've not really missed any opportunity. Matt provides a table in the press release that shows our operating expense burden, and it obviously includes some of the noise from the restructuring and some other items. But on a go-forward basis, we reconcile right back to around $22 million or so. So we believe we can hold this. We've, I think maybe we've been saying this for 4 or 5 quarters, but we think we can hold this line for several more quarters and allow a reliable trend on revenue to keep improving results. Another success, another area where we believe the success is gonna continue, is on the mortgage side, where we face the mortgage industry with warehouse and retail.
Every moment of turnover or attrition on our administrative functions has been an opportunity to improve talent and drive more leverage, and we've not really missed any opportunity. Matt provides a table in the press release that shows our operating expense burden, and it obviously includes some of the noise from the restructuring and some other items. But on a go-forward basis, we reconcile right back to around $22 million or so. So we believe we can hold this. We've, I think maybe we've been saying this for 4 or 5 quarters, but we think we can hold this line for several more quarters and allow a reliable trend on revenue to keep improving results. Another success, another area where we believe the success is gonna continue, is on the mortgage side, where we face the mortgage industry with warehouse and retail.
Speaker #3: Matt provides a table in the press release that shows our operating expense burden, and it obviously includes some of the noise from the re-engine—from the restructuring and some other items.
Speaker #3: But on a go-forward basis, we reconcile right back to around 22 million or so we believe we can hold this. I think maybe we've been saying this for four or five quarters, but we think we can hold this line for several more quarters and allow a reliable trend on revenue to keep improving results.
Speaker #3: Another success, another area where we believe the success is going to continue is on the mortgage side. Where we face the mortgage industry with warehouse and retail.
Speaker #3: There are obviously separate lines of business, but in our company, they both work together and drive results in a marketably different fashion than what you see in most community banks.
Dennis J. Zember: They're obviously separate lines of business, but in our company, they both work together and drive results in a markedly different fashion than what you see in most community banks. We've talked quite a bit about warehouse this year and about how those results are impacting our results, but the fact is, warehouse only averaged $175 million of outstandings for the year. That's not even half of the assets we sold with Life Premium Finance, and only about 35% of what we think 2026 could average. Our margins in the business are accretive to our overall levels, and our run rate efficiency ratio here is in the mid-20s, which is going to be noticeable on our consolidated ratios when we reach scale.
They're obviously separate lines of business, but in our company, they both work together and drive results in a markedly different fashion than what you see in most Community Banks. We've talked quite a bit about warehouse this year and about how those results are impacting our results, but the fact is, warehouse only averaged $175 million of outstandings for the year. That's not even half of the assets we sold with Life Premium Finance, and only about 35% of what we think 2026 could average. Our margins in the business are accretive to our overall levels, and our run rate efficiency ratio here is in the mid-20s, which is going to be noticeable on our consolidated ratios when we reach scale.
Speaker #3: Quite a bit about warehouse this year and about how those results are impacting our results, but the fact is, warehouse only averaged $175 million of outstandings for the year.
Speaker #3: That's not even half of the assets we sold, with life 35% of what we think '26 could average. Our margins in the business are accretive to our overall levels, and our run rate efficiency ratio here is in the mid-20s.
Speaker #3: It's going to be noticeable on our consolidated ratios when we rescale. At Primis Mortgage, we saw closed loans increase to approximately $1.2 billion.
Dennis J. Zember: At Primis Mortgage, we saw closed loans increase to approximately $1.2 billion, 50% increase over 2024. But more importantly, we closed $143 million in December of 2025, arguably the slowest month of the year in this business. But a good indicator for why we are modeling 2026 production in the $1.6 to 2 billion range. Also, it's important to note that growth did improve profitability, and on a pre-tax basis, Primis Mortgage earned $1.4 million in the fourth quarter, which is about $1.8 million higher than 2024. Before I give it back to Matt, let me say what is special about Primis, you know, about what we're managing.
At Primis Mortgage, we saw closed loans increase to approximately $1.2 billion, 50% increase over 2024. But more importantly, we closed $143 million in December of 2025, arguably the slowest month of the year in this business. But a good indicator for why we are modeling 2026 production in the $1.6 to 2 billion range. Also, it's important to note that growth did improve profitability, and on a pre-tax basis, Primis Mortgage earned $1.4 million in the fourth quarter, which is about $1.8 million higher than 2024. Before I give it back to Matt, let me say what is special about Primis, you know, about what we're managing.
Speaker #3: A 50% increase over '24. But more importantly, we closed $143 million in December of '25, arguably the slowest month of the year in this business.
Speaker #3: But a good indicator for why we're modeling '26 production in the $1.6 to $2 billion range. Also, it's important to note that growth did improve profitability, and on a pre-tax basis, Primis Mortgage earned $1.4 million in the fourth quarter, which is about $1.8 million higher than '24.
Speaker #3: Before I give it back to Matt, let me say what is special about Primis—about what we're managing. And obviously, I could soak up a lot on this call on this topic.
Dennis J. Zember: And obviously, I could soak up a lot on this call on this topic, but I think the important thing for our investors to know is that we've rebuilt a core bank into one that is leading on deposit successes and growing. We're not just milking a branch infrastructure from two decades ago. We're, we're growing the core bank with good deposits, good, good core deposits, and improving our, our mix. We've built integrated lines of businesses that have substantial sale scale. Every single one of our lines of business feel us pumping the brakes every month to not outrun our resources or our capital or become our whole story. The growth part of our story is baked. It's fully built, requires very limited resources to continue growing.
And obviously, I could soak up a lot on this call on this topic, but I think the important thing for our investors to know is that we've rebuilt a core bank into one that is leading on deposit successes and growing. We're not just milking a branch infrastructure from two decades ago. We're, we're growing the core bank with good deposits, good, good core deposits, and improving our, our mix. We've built integrated lines of businesses that have substantial sale scale. Every single one of our lines of business feel us pumping the brakes every month to not outrun our resources or our capital or become our whole story. The growth part of our story is baked. It's fully built, requires very limited resources to continue growing.
Speaker #3: But I think the important thing for our investors to know is that we've rebuilt a core bank into one that is leading on deposit successes and growing.
Speaker #3: We're not just milking a branch infrastructure from two decades ago. We're growing the core bank with good deposits, good core deposits, and improving our mix.
Speaker #3: We've built integrated lines of businesses that have substantial sales. Every single one of our lines of business finds us pumping the brakes every month.
Speaker #3: To not outrun our resources or our capital or become our whole story. The growth part of our story is bank. It's fully built requires very limited resources to continue growing.
Speaker #3: When you combine that with a strong and leading community bank, we have strategic options that many banks in our region do not have. We've had a lot of noise in our past.
Dennis J. Zember: When you combine that with a strong and leading community bank, we have strategic options that many banks in our region do not have. We've had a lot of noise in our past. I'm not gonna, not gonna pretend that we didn't. But there's no doubt in my mind that every quarter of reliable ROA and growth in tangible book value that we can post, that noise subsides, and our multiples, I believe, will return and reward the shareholders for our hard work. All right, Matt, with that, I'll turn it back to you.
When you combine that with a strong and leading Community Bank, we have strategic options that many banks in our region do not have. We've had a lot of noise in our past. I'm not gonna, not gonna pretend that we didn't. But there's no doubt in my mind that every quarter of reliable ROA and growth in tangible book value that we can post, that noise subsides, and our multiples, I believe, will return and reward the shareholders for our hard work. All right, Matt, with that, I'll turn it back to you.
Speaker #3: I'm not going to pretend that we did. But there's no doubt in my mind that every quarter of reliable ROA and growth in tangible book value that we can post, that noise subsides, and our multiples, I believe, will return and reward the shareholders for our hard work.
Speaker #3: All right, Matt, with that, I'll turn it back to you.
Speaker #2: Thank you, Dennis. As a reminder, a discussion of our financial results can be found in our press release and on our website, and in our 8-K filing with the investor presentation located on the SEC.
Matthew A. Switzer: Thank you, Dennis. As a reminder, a discussion of our financial results can be found in our press release and investor presentation located on our website and in our 8-K filed with the SEC. Beginning with the balance sheet, gross loans held for investment increased approximately 10% annualized from September 30 to December 31. Including the Panacea loans sold in the fourth quarter, gross loans would have increased approximately 17% annualized, led by growth in Panacea and Mortgage Warehouse. Importantly, average earning assets increased 13% annualized in the fourth quarter, with a slightly slower growth rate versus period end growth adjusted for the loan sale due to substantial loan closing activity that took place at the end of the quarter. Deposits were up 10% annualized in the quarter, also due to strong production late in the fourth quarter.
Matthew A. Switzer: Thank you, Dennis. As a reminder, a discussion of our financial results can be found in our press release and investor presentation located on our website and in our 8-K filed with the SEC. Beginning with the balance sheet, gross loans held for investment increased approximately 10% annualized from September 30 to December 31. Including the Panacea loans sold in the fourth quarter, gross loans would have increased approximately 17% annualized, led by growth in Panacea and Mortgage Warehouse. Importantly, average earning assets increased 13% annualized in the fourth quarter, with a slightly slower growth rate versus period end growth adjusted for the loan sale due to substantial loan closing activity that took place at the end of the quarter. Deposits were up 10% annualized in the quarter, also due to strong production late in the fourth quarter.
Speaker #2: Beginning with the balance sheet, gross loans held for investment increased approximately 10% annualized from September 30 to December 31. Including the Panacea loan sold in the fourth quarter, gross loans would have increased approximately 17% annualized, led by growth in Panacea and mortgage warehouse.
Speaker #2: Importantly, average earning assets increased 13% annualized in the fourth quarter with a slightly slower growth rate versus period end growth adjusted for the loan sale due to substantial loan closing activity that took place at the end of the quarter.
Speaker #2: Deposits were up 10% annualized in the quarter also due to strong production late in the fourth quarter. Even more impressive as Dennis mentioned, non-interest rate deposits ended the year at 554 million or 16% of total deposits versus 439 million or 14% at the end of 2024.
Matthew A. Switzer: Even more impressive, as Dennis mentioned, non-interest-bearing deposits ended the year at $554 million, or 16% of total deposits, versus $439 million, or 14%, at the end of 2024. Net interest income was approximately $31 million, a substantial improvement from $26 million in the year ago period. Our net interest margin in Q4 was 328 basis points, up from a reported 318 last quarter and 290 in the year ago period. We have expectations for further margin expansion as we progress through 2026. Our previously announced investment portfolio restructuring only benefited half of December, and we will complete the redemption of $27 million of subordinated debt at the end of this month.
Even more impressive, as Dennis mentioned, non-interest-bearing deposits ended the year at $554 million, or 16% of total deposits, versus $439 million, or 14%, at the end of 2024. Net interest income was approximately $31 million, a substantial improvement from $26 million in the year ago period. Our net interest margin in Q4 was 328 basis points, up from a reported 318 last quarter and 290 in the year ago period. We have expectations for further margin expansion as we progress through 2026. Our previously announced investment portfolio restructuring only benefited half of December, and we will complete the redemption of $27 million of subordinated debt at the end of this month.
Speaker #2: Net interest income was approximately $31 million, a substantial improvement from $26 million in the year-ago period. Our net interest margin in the fourth quarter was 328 basis points, up from a reported 318 last quarter and 290 in the year-ago period.
Speaker #2: And we have expectations for further margin expansion as we progress through 2026. Our previously announced investment portfolio restructuring only benefited half of December, and we will complete the redemption of $27 million of subordinated debt at the end of this month.
Speaker #2: If both those transactions had been in place for all of the fourth quarter, the net interest margin would have been approximately 11 basis points higher.
Matthew A. Switzer: If both those transactions had been in place for all of Q4, the net interest margin would have been approximately 11 basis points higher. The earning asset growth late in Q4 was accretive to margin, as is our current loan pipeline. We also have approximately $331 million of loans repricing predominantly in the second half of 2026, with a weighted average yield of just under 5% that will add to loan yields. Lastly, we have $40 million of deposits with a contractual rate, leaving at the end of January with a cost almost 80 basis points higher than wholesale funding. The core bank cost of deposits remains very attractive at 159 basis points for the quarter, down 14 basis points from Q3.
If both those transactions had been in place for all of Q4, the net interest margin would have been approximately 11 basis points higher. The earning asset growth late in Q4 was accretive to margin, as is our current loan pipeline. We also have approximately $331 million of loans repricing predominantly in the second half of 2026, with a weighted average yield of just under 5% that will add to loan yields. Lastly, we have $40 million of deposits with a contractual rate, leaving at the end of January with a cost almost 80 basis points higher than wholesale funding. The core bank cost of deposits remains very attractive at 159 basis points for the quarter, down 14 basis points from Q3.
Speaker #2: The earning asset growth late in the fourth quarter was accretive to margin, as is our current loan pipeline. We also have approximately $331 million of loans repricing predominantly in the second half of 2026, with a weighted average yield just under 5%, that will add to loan yields.
Speaker #2: Lastly, we have $40 million of deposits with a contractual rate leaving at the end of January with a cost of almost 80 basis points funding. The core bank cost of points higher than wholesale deposits remains very attractive at 159 basis points for the quarter, down 14 basis points from the third quarter.
Speaker #2: Cost of total deposits was 226 basis points in the fourth quarter, down 20 basis points linked quarter. Our focus on growing NIB deposits is a key part of our strategy to continue driving funding costs lower from here.
Matthew A. Switzer: Cost of total deposits was 226 basis points in Q4, down 20 basis points linked quarter. Our focus on growing NIB deposits is a key part of our strategy to continue driving funding costs lower from here. Our provision this quarter was $2.4 million, partially driven by a growth in the loan portfolio described above. Approximately $1 million of the provision was due to specific reserving at year-end for impaired loans, while another $600,000 was tied to activity in the consumer portfolio. Non-interest income, excluding the gains and losses from the sale-leaseback transaction and investment portfolio restructuring, was $14.2 million in the quarter versus $12 million in Q3. Mortgage revenue was solid in Q4 at $10 million versus $8.9 million in Q3, with Q4 seasonal slowness offset by production from new hires.
Cost of total deposits was 226 basis points in Q4, down 20 basis points linked quarter. Our focus on growing NIB deposits is a key part of our strategy to continue driving funding costs lower from here. Our provision this quarter was $2.4 million, partially driven by a growth in the loan portfolio described above. Approximately $1 million of the provision was due to specific reserving at year-end for impaired loans, while another $600,000 was tied to activity in the consumer portfolio. Non-interest income, excluding the gains and losses from the sale-leaseback transaction and investment portfolio restructuring, was $14.2 million in the quarter versus $12 million in Q3. Mortgage revenue was solid in Q4 at $10 million versus $8.9 million in Q3, with Q4 seasonal slowness offset by production from new hires.
Speaker #2: Our provision this quarter was $2.4 million, partially driven by growth in the loan portfolio described above. Approximately $1 million of the provision was due to specific reserving at year-end for impaired loans, while another $600,000 was tied to activity in the consumer portfolio.
Speaker #2: Non-interest income, excluding the gains and losses from the sale-leaseback transaction and investment portfolio restructuring, was $14.2 million in the quarter versus $12 million in the third quarter.
Speaker #2: Mortgage revenue was solid and Q4 at 10 million versus 8.9 million in Q3 with Q4 seasonal slowness offset by production from new hires. Year-over-year retail mortgage production was 84% higher in fourth quarter of '25 versus the fourth quarter of '24, showing momentum for a strong '26.
Matthew A. Switzer: Year-over-year, retail mortgage production was 84% higher in Q4 2025 versus Q4 2024, showing momentum for a strong 2026. Including that production was $32 million of attractive construction to permanent loan production in the quarter, up from $26 million last quarter and an immaterial amount in Q4 2024. On the expense side, when you exclude mortgage and Panacea division volatility and non-recurring items, our core expenses were $28 million versus $22 million in Q3. The strong performance in the year resulted in higher compensation accruals, particularly restricted stock expense, which totaled $4.5 million in Q4.
Year-over-year, retail mortgage production was 84% higher in Q4 2025 versus Q4 2024, showing momentum for a strong 2026. Including that production was $32 million of attractive construction to permanent loan production in the quarter, up from $26 million last quarter and an immaterial amount in Q4 2024. On the expense side, when you exclude mortgage and Panacea division volatility and non-recurring items, our core expenses were $28 million versus $22 million in Q3. The strong performance in the year resulted in higher compensation accruals, particularly restricted stock expense, which totaled $4.5 million in Q4.
Speaker #2: Included in that production was $32 million of attractive construction-to-permanent loan production in the quarter, up from $26 million last quarter and an immaterial amount in the fourth quarter of '24.
Speaker #2: On the expense side, when you exclude mortgage and Panacea division volatility and non-recurring items, our core expenses were 28 million versus 22 million in the third quarter.
Speaker #2: The strong performance in the year resulted in higher compensation accruals, particularly restricted stock expense, which totaled $4.5 million in the fourth quarter. There are a handful of other items described on the earnings release that are one-time in nature but don't rise to the definition of non-recurring for reporting purposes, and totaled another approximately $1.8 million including one month of lease expense.
Matthew A. Switzer: There are a handful of other items described in the earnings release that are one time in nature, but don't rise to the definition of non-recurring for reporting purposes, and totaled another approximately $1.8 million, including one month of lease expense. Not highlighted in the press release because of the small nature, there's roughly another $300,000 to $400,000 of cleanup expenses in the quarter that will moderate next quarter. Normalizing for all of these items, core non-interest expense on a comparable basis was approximately $21 million, putting us only slightly higher than our run rate for the past year.
There are a handful of other items described in the earnings release that are one time in nature, but don't rise to the definition of non-recurring for reporting purposes, and totaled another approximately $1.8 million, including one month of lease expense. Not highlighted in the press release because of the small nature, there's roughly another $300,000 to $400,000 of cleanup expenses in the quarter that will moderate next quarter. Normalizing for all of these items, core non-interest expense on a comparable basis was approximately $21 million, putting us only slightly higher than our run rate for the past year.
Speaker #2: Not highlighted in the press release because of the small nature, there's roughly another $300,000 to $400,000 of cleanup expenses in the quarter that will moderate next quarter.
Speaker #2: Normalizing for all of these items, core non-interest expense on a comparable basis was approximately $21 million, putting us only slightly higher than our run rate for the past year.
Matthew A. Switzer: Our conservative estimate for our quarterly core expense range next year, adjusted for mortgage and Panacea, is $23 to 24 million in 2026, inclusive of the $1.5 million of quarterly lease expense that we've incurred with the sale leaseback transaction. And we're pushing hard to be at the bottom of or below that range. In summary, the sale leaseback transaction in the Q4 was timely and allowed us to reposition a number of areas to enter 2026 with a lot of momentum. We have the capital to achieve our goals and fundamentals in place to hit our 1% ROA goal this year, and we are confident we will do so. With that, operator, we can open the line for Q&A.
Our conservative estimate for our quarterly core expense range next year, adjusted for mortgage and Panacea, is $23 to 24 million in 2026, inclusive of the $1.5 million of quarterly lease expense that we've incurred with the sale leaseback transaction. And we're pushing hard to be at the bottom of or below that range. In summary, the sale leaseback transaction in the Q4 was timely and allowed us to reposition a number of areas to enter 2026 with a lot of momentum. We have the capital to achieve our goals and fundamentals in place to hit our 1% ROA goal this year, and we are confident we will do so. With that, operator, we can open the line for Q&A.
Speaker #2: Our conservative estimate for our quarterly core expense range next year, adjusted for mortgage and Panacea, is $23 to $24 million in 2026, inclusive of the $1.5 million of quarterly lease expense that we've incurred with the sale-leaseback transaction.
Speaker #2: And we're pushing hard to be at the bottom of, or below, that range. In summary, the sale-leaseback transaction in the fourth quarter was timely and allowed us to reposition a number of areas to enter 2026 with a lot of momentum.
Speaker #2: We have the capital to achieve our goals and the fundamentals in place to hit our 1% ROA goal this year, and we are confident we will do so.
Speaker #2: With that, operator, we can open the line for questions.
Speaker #2: Q&A. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one again. Your first question comes from the line of Russell Gunther from Stephens. Your line is open.
Operator: Thank you. We will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star one again. Your first question comes from the line of Russell Gunther from Stephens. Your line is open.
Speaker #1: We will now begin the question-and-answer session. If you would like to ask a question, please press star-1 on your telephone keypad.
Speaker #1: If you would like to withdraw your question, simply press star 1 again. Your first question comes from the line of Russell Gunther from Stevens.
Speaker #1: Your line is
Speaker #1: open.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Hey, good morning, guys. This is Nick stepping in for Russell.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Hey, good morning, guys. This is Nick stepping in for Russell.
Speaker #2: Hey, good morning,
Speaker #2: Guys, this is Nick stepping in for Russell.
Matthew A. Switzer: Hi, Nick.
Matthew A. Switzer: Hi, Nick.
Dennis J. Zember: Hey, Nick.
Dennis Zember: Hey, Nick.
Speaker #4: Hey, Hi, man.
Speaker #4: Hey, Hi, man. Nick. Hey, so starting
[Analyst] (Stephens): Hey, so starting on the loan side, you saw average warehouse balances showing a nice growth of 812% year-over-year. Given that $1.23 billion in existing commitments plus the seasonality of the business, where do you see those balances ending in 2026?
Russell Gunther: Hey, so starting on the loan side, you saw average warehouse balances showing a nice growth of 812% year-over-year. Given that $1.23 billion in existing commitments plus the seasonality of the business, where do you see those balances ending in 2026?
Speaker #2: On the loan side, you saw average warehouse balance showing a nice growth of 812% year over year, and given that $1.23 billion in existing commitments plus the seasonality of the business, where do you see those balances ending in—
Speaker #2: 2026? Ending in
Dennis J. Zember: Ending in 2026? I think we're anticipating mortgage warehouse to average $500 across the year. Now, it's seasonal, so that might be an average of $400 or so in the first quarter, but we'll probably peak well over $600 million over the summer and then come back down in the fourth quarter. So the fourth quarter may be, call it, $100 million higher or so than the fourth quarter of this year, maybe a little bit more, but for the whole year, it'll be, call it, $200 to $250 million higher than the fourth quarter because of the seasonality. Does that make sense?
Dennis Zember: Ending in 2026? I think we're anticipating mortgage warehouse to average $500 across the year. Now, it's seasonal, so that might be an average of $400 or so in the Q1, but we'll probably peak well over $600 million over the summer and then come back down in the Q4. So the fourth quarter may be, call it, $100 million higher or so than the Q4 of this year, maybe a little bit more, but for the whole year, it'll be, call it, $200 to $250 million higher than the fourth quarter because of the seasonality. Does that make sense?
Speaker #4: 2026? I think we're anticipating mortgage warehouse to average 500 across the year. Now, it's seasonal, so that might be an average of 400 and so in the first quarter, but we'll probably peak well over 600 million over the summer and then come back down in the fourth quarter.
Speaker #4: So the fourth quarter may be, call it, $100 million higher or so than the fourth quarter of this year—maybe a little bit more. But for the whole year, it'll be, call it, $200 to $250 million higher than the fourth quarter because of the seasonality.
Speaker #4: Does that make sense?
Speaker #2: Okay. Yeah.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay. Yeah.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay. Yeah.
Speaker #4: Yeah. One thing I think that's important is, I mean, that business for us is doing comfortably over a 2% ROA—let's just say that number.
Dennis J. Zember: Yeah, and I think what I think what's important is, I mean, that business for us is doing comfortably over 2% ROA. Let's just say that number. I mean, and for this year, it was $175 million average, business, so call it $3.5 million, you know, net income. I mean, I don't think scaling, getting to $500 million is only gonna improve that number. And so you sort of can see the pickup bottom-line wise, from scaling this from $175 million average for the year to $500 million next year, or excuse me, this year.
Dennis Zember: Yeah, and I think what I think what's important is, I mean, that business for us is doing comfortably over 2% ROA. Let's just say that number. I mean, and for this year, it was $175 million average, business, so call it $3.5 million, you know, net income. I mean, I don't think scaling, getting to $500 million is only gonna improve that number. And so you sort of can see the pickup bottom-line wise, from scaling this from $175 million average for the year to $500 million next year, or excuse me, this year.
Speaker #4: I mean, for this year, it was $175 million average business, so call it $3.5 million net income. I mean, I don't think scaling—getting to $500 million—is only going to improve that number.
Speaker #4: And so you sort of can see the pickup, bottom line-wise, from scaling this from 175 average for the year to 500 next year. Or, excuse me, this year.
Speaker #2: Okay. That makes sense. And related to all of that, how should we think about overall loan growth in
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay, that makes sense. Related to all of that, how should we think about overall loan growth in 2026?
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay, that makes sense. Related to all of that, how should we think about overall loan growth in 2026?
Speaker #2: '26? We're shooting
Dennis J. Zember: We're shooting for, I mean, the core bank probably somewhere in the hundreds, if we're going nominal numbers, about $100 million or so. That'd be, you know, call it 5, 6, 7%. Again, we're not gonna be doing investor CRE. That's just not our focus, so we're looking for C&I and owner-occupied, Panacea. Again, Panacea and Warehouse, I mean, if we let them out of the ring fence, we'd, it would get away from us. But I think Panacea, I think modeling about $150 million for them. And, you know, if you look at, again, really more on an average basis, I think Warehouse is probably, call it, $250 million more, maybe $200 million more from where we finished the year.
Dennis Zember: We're shooting for, I mean, the core bank probably somewhere in the hundreds, if we're going nominal numbers, about $100 million or so. That'd be, you know, call it 5, 6, 7%. Again, we're not gonna be doing investor CRE. That's just not our focus, so we're looking for C&I and owner-occupied, Panacea. Again, Panacea and Warehouse, I mean, if we let them out of the ring fence, we'd, it would get away from us. But I think Panacea, I think modeling about $150 million for them. And, you know, if you look at, again, really more on an average basis, I think Warehouse is probably, call it, $250 million more, maybe $200 million more from where we finished the year.
Speaker #4: For—I mean, the core bank, probably—the core bank's probably somewhere in the 100, and if we're going nominal numbers, about $100 million or so. That'd be, call it, 5, 6, 7 percent.
Speaker #4: Again, we don't—we're not going to be doing investor CRE. That's just not our focus. So we're looking for C&I and owner-occupied. Panacea, again, Panacea and warehouse—I mean, if we let them out of the ring-fence, it would get away from us.
Speaker #4: But I think Panacea I think mass modeling about 150 million for them and if you look at, again, really more on an average basis, I think warehouse is probably call it 250 million more, maybe 200 million more from where we finished the year.
Speaker #2: Okay. And just switching to expenses real quick, you guided 2026 quarterly to a range of 23 to 24, it looks like. How should we think about expense sensitivity as mortgage banking in the fee income side improves?
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay. And just switching to expenses real quick. You guided 2026 quarterly to a range of $23 to 24, it looks like. How should we think about expense sensitivity as mortgage banking and the fee income side improves? I mean, better said, what impacts on expenses should we anticipate in relation to mortgage banking?
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay. And just switching to expenses real quick. You guided 2026 quarterly to a range of $23 to 24, it looks like. How should we think about expense sensitivity as mortgage banking and the fee income side improves? I mean, better said, what impacts on expenses should we anticipate in relation to mortgage banking?
Speaker #2: Or, I mean, better said, what impacts on expenses should we anticipate in relation to mortgage banking?
Speaker #4: Yeah, so that $23 to $24 million is excluding mortgage, right? Because the mortgage is going to be volatile and scale with the revenue side.
Matthew A. Switzer: Yeah. So that 23 to 24 million is excluding mortgage, right? Because the mortgage is gonna be volatile and scale with the revenue side. So it's just easier to think of mortgage or on a pre-tax contribution basis.
Matthew A. Switzer: Yeah. So that 23 to 24 million is excluding mortgage, right? Because the mortgage is gonna be volatile and scale with the revenue side. So it's just easier to think of mortgage or on a pre-tax contribution basis.
Speaker #4: So it's just easier to think of mortgage or on a pre-tax contribution.
Speaker #2: Okay. And.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay, and-
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay, and-
Matthew A. Switzer: Assume they're gonna- assume whatever your, whatever your revenue assumption is for mortgage, assume that they're gonna earn, call it, 50 to 60 basis points pre-tax.... and then you get back into the expense from there.
Matthew A. Switzer: Assume they're gonna- assume whatever your, whatever your revenue assumption is for mortgage, assume that they're gonna earn, call it, 50 to 60 basis points pre-tax.... and then you get back into the expense from there.
Speaker #4: Assume they're going to assume whatever your revenue assumption is for mortgage, assume that they're going to earn call it 50 to 60 basis points pre-tax and then you get back into the expense from there.
Dennis J. Zember: This year, we did about $1.2 billion of loan closings. We probably, I mean, fully loaded, we were probably high 30s basis points on pre-tax bottom line there on loan closings. We think next year we're gonna see 40-50% improvement in loan closings and even a better improvement in the bottom line. I mean, we're modeling somewhere between 50 and 60 basis points of pre-tax on those loan closings. To your point, Nick, it does scale tremendously as you get sort of above $1.5 billion. Because really, we're still recruiting, call it $50, $60, $70 million dollar a year producers. But when you're bringing those on, and it's a 10% growth in production, it you can sort of feel it. When you're already at $2 billion, it's just not noticeable.
Dennis Zember: This year, we did about $1.2 billion of loan closings. We probably, I mean, fully loaded, we were probably high 30s basis points on pre-tax bottom line there on loan closings. We think next year we're gonna see 40-50% improvement in loan closings and even a better improvement in the bottom line. I mean, we're modeling somewhere between 50 and 60 basis points of pre-tax on those loan closings. To your point, Nick, it does scale tremendously as you get sort of above $1.5 billion. Because really, we're still recruiting, call it $50, $60, $70 million dollar a year producers. But when you're bringing those on, and it's a 10% growth in production, it you can sort of feel it. When you're already at $2 billion, it's just not noticeable.
Speaker #4: This year, we did about a billion in loan closings. We probably—I mean, fully loaded, we were probably high 30s basis points on pre-tax bottom line.
Speaker #4: They're on loan closings. We think next year we're going to see 40, 50 percent improvement in loan closings. And even a better improvement in the bottom line.
Speaker #4: I mean, we're modeling somewhere between 50 and 60 basis points of pre-tax on those loan closings. So to your point, Nick, it does scale tremendously as you get sort of above $1.5 billion.
Speaker #4: Because really, I mean, we're still recruiting, call it $50, $60, $70 million-a-year producers. But when you're bringing those on, and it's a 10% growth of production, you can sort of feel it.
Speaker #4: When you're already at $2 billion, it's just
Speaker #4: noticeable. Okay.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Okay, that's good to know. And last thing, you know, talking about the ROA, what is your target sustainable ROA for the full year 2026?
Russell Gunther: Okay, that's good to know. And last thing, you know, talking about the ROA, what is your target sustainable ROA for the full year 2026?
Speaker #2: That's good to know. And last thing, talking about the ROA, what is your target sustainable ROA for the full year
Speaker #2: 2026? I
Speaker #4: mean, our bogey is still for the full year a 1% ROA. And we may be below that in the first quarter because first quarter seems to be slower particularly for mortgage and mortgage warehouse.
Matthew A. Switzer: I mean, our bogey is still, for the full year, a 1% ROA. We may be below that in Q1 because Q1 is seasonally slower, particularly for Mortgage and Mortgage Warehouse. We'll be above that in the second half of the year, which would put us in that range for the full year.
Matthew A. Switzer: I mean, our bogey is still, for the full year, a 1% ROA. We may be below that in Q1 because Q1 is seasonally slower, particularly for Mortgage and Mortgage Warehouse. We'll be above that in the second half of the year, which would put us in that range for the full year.
Speaker #4: But we'll be above that in the second half of the year, which would put us in that range for the full year.
Speaker #4: year. Got
[Analyst] (Stephens): Got it. That's it on my end. Thanks for taking my questions.
[Analyst] (Stephens): Got it. That's it on my end. Thanks for taking my questions.
Speaker #2: That's it on my end. Thanks for taking my question.
Speaker #2: questions. Thanks, Nick.
Matthew A. Switzer: Thanks, Nick.
Matthew A. Switzer: Thanks, Nick.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Christopher Marinac from Janney Montgomery Scott. Your line is open.
Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Christopher Marinac from Janney Montgomery Scott. Your line is open.
Speaker #5: Your next question comes from Yep. a line of Christopher Marinak from Jani Montgomery Scott. Your line is
Speaker #6: Hey, good morning, and thanks for all the detail both on the call as well as in the disclosures yesterday. Just wanted to go back to the noise that may be on top of the '23, '24 quarterly expenses.
Christopher Marinac: Hey, good morning, and thanks for all the detail both on the call as well as on the disclosures yesterday. Just want to go back to the noise that may be on top of the 23, 24 quarterly expenses. Is some of that noise still gonna be with us this first half of the year, or do you think a lot of it's behind us?
Christopher Marinac: Hey, good morning, and thanks for all the detail both on the call as well as on the disclosures yesterday. Just want to go back to the noise that may be on top of the 23, 24 quarterly expenses. Is some of that noise still gonna be with us this first half of the year, or do you think a lot of it's behind us?
Speaker #6: Is some of that noise still going to be with us as first half of the year, or do you think a lot of it's behind us?
Speaker #4: I think the vast majority of it is behind us. We may have a little bit in the first quarter, but should not be anywhere near as significant as the fourth quarter.
Matthew A. Switzer: I think the vast majority of it is behind us. We may have a little bit in Q1, but should not be anywhere near as significant as Q4.
Matthew A. Switzer: I think the vast majority of it is behind us. We may have a little bit in Q1, but should not be anywhere near as significant as Q4.
Speaker #6: Got it. And then part of getting back to the 1% ROA is going to be a higher margin, right? I mean, expenses make a big difference to get you from the core 80 to 100.
Christopher Marinac: Got it. And then part of getting back to the 1% ROA is gonna be a higher margin, right? I mean, expenses or make a big difference to get you from the core 80 to a 100, but how big of a piece is the margin?
Christopher Marinac: Got it. And then part of getting back to the 1% ROA is gonna be a higher margin, right? I mean, expenses or make a big difference to get you from the core 80 to a 100, but how big of a piece is the margin?
Speaker #6: But how big of a piece is the margin?
Matthew A. Switzer: Well-
Matthew A. Switzer: Well-
Speaker #4: Well, no, you go first. I mean, that's part of it. But, I mean, we've got margin expansion on the existing balance sheet, plus healthy margins on the growth agenda.
Dennis J. Zember: You go. No, you go. You go first.
Dennis Zember: You go. No, you go. You go first.
Matthew A. Switzer: I mean, that's part of it. But, I mean, there's margin expansion on the existing balance sheet, plus healthy margins on the growth that Dennis just outlined, that we're expecting for the year. And the incremental, significant portions of that growth come with much higher incremental ROAs. For example, mortgage warehouse, which is gonna be a big portion of the growth and has very wide ROAs relative to the consolidated. On the existing balance sheet, you know, we had a 3.28 margin in the Q4, call it high threes, if you adjust for paying off debt, which we'll have two quarters of that in the run rate in the Q1, plus the full quarter of the securities portfolio restructuring.
Matthew A. Switzer: I mean, that's part of it. But, I mean, there's margin expansion on the existing balance sheet, plus healthy margins on the growth that Dennis just outlined, that we're expecting for the year. And the incremental, significant portions of that growth come with much higher incremental ROAs. For example, mortgage warehouse, which is gonna be a big portion of the growth and has very wide ROAs relative to the consolidated. On the existing balance sheet, you know, we had a 3.28 margin in the Q4, call it high threes, if you adjust for paying off debt, which we'll have two quarters of that in the run rate in the Q1, plus the full quarter of the securities portfolio restructuring.
Speaker #4: It's just outlined that we're expecting for the year, and the incremental—some significant portions of that growth come with much higher incremental ROAs. For example, according to warehouse, which is going to be a big portion of the growth and has very wide ROAs relative to the consolidated.
Speaker #4: On the existing balance sheet, we had a 3.28 margin in the fourth quarter. Call it high threes if you adjust for paying off debt, which we'll have two quarters of that in the run rate in the first quarter, plus the full quarter of the securities portfolio restructuring.
Matthew A. Switzer: I mean, we should be healthily in the mid 3.4s in Q1, if not a little bit better than that, and call it pushing 3.5 as we get through the year. So there's some of that is margin-related, but a lot of it's just holding expenses.
Speaker #4: I mean, we should be healthily in the mid 3s, 4s in the first quarter, if not a little bit better than that. And, call it pushing 3.5 as we get through the year.
Matthew A. Switzer: I mean, we should be healthily in the mid 3.4s in Q1, if not a little bit better than that, and call it pushing 3.5 as we get through the year. So there's some of that is margin-related, but a lot of it's just holding expenses.
Speaker #4: So, there's some of that that is margin related, but a lot of it's
Speaker #4: just holding expenses. And Yeah. Chris, I'd say sort of adding to what Matt said, I mean, there's I'll start on the bottom side. There's virtually no pressure anywhere in our company for OPEX growth.
Dennis J. Zember: Yeah, and Chris, I'd say, sort of adding to what Matt said, I mean, there's... I'll start on the bottom side. There's virtually no pressure anywhere in our company for OpEx growth. I think, and, you know, to the degree there is, it's a new producer or a new revenue or, or a revenue-related opportunity. But outside of that, there's just, there's no pressure for that. There's also virtually nothing that we're doing on the earning asset side or the growth side that's dilutive to our current margin. So when you look at where we were a year ago at 2.90 versus where we probably are gonna be somewhere closer to 3.5, you know, mid-year, that the math there is just very accretive to getting us to the 1% ROA.
Dennis Zember: Yeah, and Chris, I'd say, sort of adding to what Matt said, I mean, there's... I'll start on the bottom side. There's virtually no pressure anywhere in our company for OpEx growth. I think, and, you know, to the degree there is, it's a new producer or a new revenue or, or a revenue-related opportunity. But outside of that, there's just, there's no pressure for that. There's also virtually nothing that we're doing on the earning asset side or the growth side that's dilutive to our current margin. So when you look at where we were a year ago at 2.90 versus where we probably are gonna be somewhere closer to 3.5, you know, mid-year, that the math there is just very accretive to getting us to the 1% ROA.
Speaker #4: And to the degree there is, it's a new producer or a new revenue, or a revenue-related opportunity. But outside of that, there's no pressure for that.
Speaker #4: There's also virtually nothing that we're doing on the earning asset side for the growth side that's dilutive to our current margin. So when you look at where we were a year ago at $290 million versus where we probably are going to be, somewhere closer to $350 million mid-year, the math there is just very accretive to getting us to the 1% ROA.
Dennis J. Zember: Over the 1% ROA, we're not trying to be conservative, we're just, we definitely see a pathway to getting to 1% and it being sustainable. And a lot of it is a much more improved margin, absolutely, sort of set in stone operating expense disciplines, so.
Speaker #4: And over the 1% ROA, we're not trying to be conservative. We definitely see a pathway to getting to 1% and it being sustainable.
Over the 1% ROA, we're not trying to be conservative, we're just, we definitely see a pathway to getting to 1% and it being sustainable. And a lot of it is a much more improved margin, absolutely, sort of set in stone operating expense disciplines, so.
Speaker #4: And a lot of it is a much more improved margin absolutely sort of set in stone operating expense disciplines. So the other thing I would add, Chris, mortgage will be a much for the full year, much higher contributor in '26 than '25.
Matthew A. Switzer: The other thing I would add, Chris, mortgage will be a much, for the full year, much higher contributor-
Matthew A. Switzer: The other thing I would add, Chris, mortgage will be a much, for the full year, much higher contributor-
Dennis J. Zember: Mm-hmm.
Matthew A. Switzer: - in 2026 than 2025. Partly because of the growth we're expecting in production, which it does not assume like some big refi boom or whatnot. That's driven by teams that we hired in 2025. And recall, in the first half of the year, mortgage was not a contributor, particularly in Q2, because of expenses related to those hires, and that was about $1.5 billion of impact, at least, that we don't have any of that in our expectations for 2026. So mortgage retail activity contributed maybe $2 million pre-tax in 2025 because of expenses and build out and whatnot. It's going to be multiples of that in 2026, which is also accretive to ROA.
Matthew A. Switzer: In 2026 than 2025. Partly because of the growth we're expecting in production, which it does not assume like some big refi boom or whatnot. That's driven by teams that we hired in 2025. And recall, in the first half of the year, mortgage was not a contributor, particularly in Q2, because of expenses related to those hires, and that was about $1.5 billion of impact, at least, that we don't have any of that in our expectations for 2026. So mortgage retail activity contributed maybe $2 million pre-tax in 2025 because of expenses and build out and whatnot. It's going to be multiples of that in 2026, which is also accretive to ROA.
Speaker #4: Partly because of the growth we're expecting in production, which does not assume some big refi boom or whatnot. That's driven by teams that we hired in '25.
Speaker #4: And recall in the first half of the year, mortgage was not a contributor, particularly in the second quarter because of expenses related to those hires.
Speaker #4: And that was about, call it, $1.5 million of impact at least. We don't have any of that in our expectations for 2026.
Speaker #4: So mortgage, retail activity, contributed maybe a couple million dollars pre-tax in '25 because of expenses and build-up and whatnot. It's going to be multiples of that in '26, which is also accretive to
Speaker #4: ROA. Got it.
Christopher Marinac: Got it. Thanks for all that. And I guess just to follow up on it, on deposits, is, you know, Dennis, you talked about the deposit account growth that's been in place for a while. Do you see those same accounts funding more? Or do you see deposit growth coming because you continue to build accounts? Just that, just curious kind of how you look at balances versus accounts.
Christopher Marinac: Got it. Thanks for all that. And I guess just to follow up on it, on deposits, is, you know, Dennis, you talked about the deposit account growth that's been in place for a while. Do you see those same accounts funding more? Or do you see deposit growth coming because you continue to build accounts? Just that, just curious kind of how you look at balances versus accounts.
Speaker #6: Thanks for all that. And I guess, just to follow up on deposits—Dennis, you talked about the deposit account growth. It's been in place for a while.
Speaker #6: Do you see those same accounts funding more, or do you see deposit growth coming because you continue to build accounts? I'm just curious, kind of, how you look at balances versus—
Speaker #6: accounts. We look at both.
Dennis J. Zember: We look at both. It's interesting you'd ask that. We do measure. One of the things we measure around here is new customers, so that's, that's not new accounts. So new accounts to existing customers, we don't count. We look only at new customers, new people to the bank, whether it's EINs or Social Security numbers. And last year, it was almost 6,000 new customers to the bank. The first year I got here, we barely cracked 1,000. So the sales efforts are definitely attracting new customers. And, and interestingly, what you said, the balances three years after you acquire the customer are almost double what they were in the first year.
Dennis Zember: We look at both. It's interesting you'd ask that. We do measure. One of the things we measure around here is new customers, so that's, that's not new accounts. So new accounts to existing customers, we don't count. We look only at new customers, new people to the bank, whether it's EINs or Social Security numbers. And last year, it was almost 6,000 new customers to the bank. The first year I got here, we barely cracked 1,000. So the sales efforts are definitely attracting new customers. And, and interestingly, what you said, the balances three years after you acquire the customer are almost double what they were in the first year.
Speaker #4: It's interesting you'd ask that. We do measure one of the things we measure around here is new customers. So that's not new accounts. So new accounts to existing customers, we don't count.
Speaker #4: We look only at new customers, new people to the bank, whether it's EINs or Social Securities. And last year was almost 6,000 new customers to the bank.
Speaker #4: The first year I got here, we barely cracked 1,000. So the sales efforts are definitely attracting new customers. And interestingly, what you said—the balances three years after you acquire the customer are almost double what they were in the first year.
Speaker #4: So, I mean, I can't scientifically guarantee that what we did this year on checking account growth is going to be double in three years, but I can tell you, if you go back two or three years, four years, five years, and you look at what those customers have done here, unquestionably, the balances grow to about double.
Dennis J. Zember: So, I mean, I can't scientifically guarantee that what we did this year on checking account growth is going to be double in three years, but I can tell you if you go back two or three years, four years, five years, and you look at what those customers have done here, unquestionably, the balances grow to about double. Now, just like every bank, we have attrition, so you do have to grow $100 million of new customers to be able to come on the call, Chris, and tell you that we grew $50 million. Just that happens. But new customer acquisition is key.
So, I mean, I can't scientifically guarantee that what we did this year on checking account growth is going to be double in three years, but I can tell you if you go back two or three years, four years, five years, and you look at what those customers have done here, unquestionably, the balances grow to about double. Now, just like every bank, we have attrition, so you do have to grow $100 million of new customers to be able to come on the call, Chris, and tell you that we grew $50 million. Just that happens. But new customer acquisition is key.
Speaker #4: Now, just like every bank, we have attrition. So you do have to grow 100 million new customers to be able to come on the call, Chris, and tell you that we grew 50 million.
Speaker #4: Just that happens. But new customer acquisition is key. What I will tell you—I mean, every investor and analyst on the call knows this.
Dennis J. Zember: What I will tell you is, I mean, every investor and analyst on the call knows this, when you're growing the bank, when you're not focused on investor CRE, and you're growing the bank with C&I or owner-occupied or treasury-related sales when you're focused only on deposits, those are absolutely relationship core customers. And after you've got them on the books, they 100 percent turn into a center of influence. And most everything we did, and I was talking about Q4, December, really, and the growth, almost every one of those were a referral from an existing customer. And so, I mean, I'm again, I wish I could, you know, I wish I had the foresight to say or the I wish I was a prophet could say, all of this is going to turn into that. I can't.
What I will tell you is, I mean, every investor and analyst on the call knows this, when you're growing the bank, when you're not focused on investor CRE, and you're growing the bank with C&I or owner-occupied or treasury-related sales when you're focused only on deposits, those are absolutely relationship core customers. And after you've got them on the books, they 100 percent turn into a center of influence. And most everything we did, and I was talking about Q4, December, really, and the growth, almost every one of those were a referral from an existing customer. And so, I mean, I'm again, I wish I could, you know, I wish I had the foresight to say or the I wish I was a prophet could say, all of this is going to turn into that. I can't.
Speaker #4: When you're growing the bank, when you're not focused on investor CRE and you're growing the bank with C&I or owner-occupied or treasury-related sales, when you're focused only on deposits, those are absolutely relationship core customers.
Speaker #4: And after you've got them on the books, they 100% turn into a center of influence. And most everything we did—and I was talking about the fourth quarter, December really, and the growth—almost every one of those was a referral from an existing customer.
Speaker #4: And so, I mean, again, I wish I could—I wish I had the foresight to say, or I wish I was a prophet—could say all of this is going to turn into that.
Speaker #4: I can't. But I do know that what we did in the fourth quarter is, number one, a good sign that the sales culture is working.
Dennis J. Zember: But I do know that what we did in the fourth quarter is, number one, a good sign that the sales culture is working, and number two, it gives us a big platform springboard to drive more results in the coming year.
But I do know that what we did in the fourth quarter is, number one, a good sign that the sales culture is working, and number two, it gives us a big platform springboard to drive more results in the coming year.
Speaker #4: And number two, it gives us a big platform—springboard—to drive more results in the coming year.
Speaker #6: Got it. That's great. Thanks for that, Dennis. And just another question on the mortgage business: Do you think you'll still have more production hires there?
Christopher Marinac: Got it. That's, that's great. Thanks for that, Dennis. And just another question on the mortgage business. Do you think you'll still have more production hires there, or do you have the team in place that you want at this in terms of headcount?
Christopher Marinac: Got it. That's, that's great. Thanks for that, Dennis. And just another question on the mortgage business. Do you think you'll still have more production hires there, or do you have the team in place that you want at this in terms of headcount?
Speaker #6: Or do you have the team in place that you want at this, in terms of—
Speaker #6: headcount? We're
Dennis J. Zember: We're definitely going to have more hires.
Dennis Zember: We're definitely going to have more hires.
Speaker #4: We're definitely going to have more hires, but it won't come with the large upfront expenses. It'll be more incremental than the two large teams we had last year.
Matthew A. Switzer: But it won't come with the large-
Matthew A. Switzer: But it won't come with the large-
Dennis J. Zember: Yeah
Dennis Zember: Yeah
Matthew A. Switzer: - expense, upfront expenses. It'll be more incremental than the two large teams we got last year.
Matthew A. Switzer: Expense, upfront expenses. It'll be more incremental than the two large teams we got last year.
Dennis J. Zember: Yeah, we hired two $200 million a year producers last year. There was some cost for onboarding them, no question about it. The folks we're recruiting now, Chris, back to what I said, they're probably $50 to 70 million producers. We're recruiting them smart. We're not trying to do all of them in one quarter. But, you know, recruiting those two big teams really just keeps paying dividends. And people, you know, the more success we have here, honestly, the more our phone is ringing. I will tell you, we're a $4 billion bank. We probably need mortgage to be, call it, $2.5 to 3 billion. I think at $2.5, $2 billion dollars, we're not too concentrated in mortgage.
Dennis Zember: Yeah, we hired two $200 million a year producers last year. There was some cost for onboarding them, no question about it. The folks we're recruiting now, Chris, back to what I said, they're probably $50 to 70 million producers. We're recruiting them smart. We're not trying to do all of them in one quarter. But, you know, recruiting those two big teams really just keeps paying dividends. And people, you know, the more success we have here, honestly, the more our phone is ringing. I will tell you, we're a $4 billion bank. We probably need mortgage to be, call it, $2.5 to 3 billion. I think at $2.5, $2 billion dollars, we're not too concentrated in mortgage.
Speaker #4: Yeah. We hired two $200 million-a-year producers last year. There was some cost for onboarding them, no question about it. The folks we're recruiting now, Chris, back to what I said, they're probably $30— they're probably $50 to $70 million producers. We're recruiting them smart.
Speaker #4: We're not trying to do all of them in one quarter. But recruiting those two big teams really just keeps paying dividends. And people—the more success we have here, honestly, the more our phone is ringing.
Speaker #4: I will tell you, we're a $4 billion bank. We probably need mortgage to be call it 2 and a half to 3 billion. I think at 2 and a half, $2 billion we're not too concentrated in mortgage.
Dennis J. Zember: And at that point, we probably sort of need to marry growth in mortgage along with growth in the core bank so that we're not a mortgage company. We're still a bank with a mortgage company.
And at that point, we probably sort of need to marry growth in mortgage along with growth in the core bank so that we're not a mortgage company. We're still a bank with a mortgage company.
Speaker #4: At that point, we probably sort of need to marry growth in mortgage along with growth in the core bank, so that we're not a mortgage company.
Speaker #4: We're still a bank with a mortgage.
Speaker #4: company. Got it.
Christopher Marinac: Got it. Okay. And then last question, on the, the one loan or loans that had an increase on special mention, do you see any of those graduating to substandard, or would you see that those go back to pass at some point?
Christopher Marinac: Got it. Okay. And then last question, on the, the one loan or loans that had an increase on special mention, do you see any of those graduating to substandard, or would you see that those go back to pass at some point?
Speaker #6: Okay. And then, last question on the one loan or loans that had an increase on special mention. Do you see any of those graduating to substandard?
Speaker #6: Or would you see that those go back to pass at some point?
Speaker #6: point? The
Matthew A. Switzer: The specific impairment that you're referring to?
Matthew A. Switzer: The specific impairment that you're referring to?
Speaker #4: specific impairment that you're referring
Speaker #4: to? Yeah.
Christopher Marinac: Yeah, just the $40 million that went up from September to December.
Christopher Marinac: Yeah, just the $40 million that went up from September to December.
Speaker #6: Just the $40 million that went up from September to December.
Matthew A. Switzer: Special mention. Oh, the special mention. I'm sorry. I think they're in the list. Probably, I think one of them is one of them is an office CRE deal that's got very strong cash flows, got very strong cash flows, an investor that's investing in the property. We downgraded it because we did a modification. So I think we're probably going to leave it special mention. We've got good LTVs, very strong debt coverage. It's probably going to sit in special mention.
Matthew A. Switzer: Special mention. Oh, the special mention. I'm sorry. I think they're in the list. Probably, I think one of them is one of them is an office CRE deal that's got very strong cash flows, got very strong cash flows, an investor that's investing in the property. We downgraded it because we did a modification. So I think we're probably going to leave it special mention. We've got good LTVs, very strong debt coverage. It's probably going to sit in special mention.
Speaker #4: Oh, the special mention. I'm sorry. I think they're on the list. Probably, I think one of them is an office CRE deal that's got very strong cash flows.
Speaker #4: Got very strong cash flows. An investor that's investing in the property. We downgraded it because we did a modification. So I think we probably are going to leave it in special mention.
Speaker #4: We've got good LTVs, very strong debt coverage. It's probably going to sit in special mention—we've not had a payment problem. But because of that modification, we're probably going to leave it there.
Dennis J. Zember: ... We've not had a payment problem, but because of that mod, modification, we're probably gonna leave it there. The other one's got extraordinarily strong guarantor with a lot of liquidity, a piece of collateral that we're not very delighted with, maybe. It's probably gonna be there for a little while, too, but given the strength of the borrower and his liquidity position, I don't think it's going to substandard.
Dennis Zember: ... We've not had a payment problem, but because of that mod, modification, we're probably gonna leave it there. The other one's got extraordinarily strong guarantor with a lot of liquidity, a piece of collateral that we're not very delighted with, maybe. It's probably gonna be there for a little while, too, but given the strength of the borrower and his liquidity position, I don't think it's going to substandard.
Speaker #4: The other one's got an extraordinarily strong guarantor with a lot of liquidity. A piece of collateral that we're not very delighted with, maybe. It's probably going to be there for a little while too.
Speaker #4: But given the strength of the borrower and his liquidity position, I don't think it's going to substandard. It's that one piece of the assisted living that they had an issue with their tenant, but they're working through that.
Matthew A. Switzer: So we have one piece that's of assisted living, that they had an issue with their tenant, but they're working through that, and the guarantor is supporting it. So I'm assuming if they get the tenant sorted out, things will be fine. They'll probably be in a position to upgrade that back in the next couple of quarters. One of them is in the process of being recapped, and at that point, we would actually be paid off, which would be a nice chunk of that.
Matthew A. Switzer: So we have one piece that's of assisted living, that they had an issue with their tenant, but they're working through that, and the guarantor is supporting it. So I'm assuming if they get the tenant sorted out, things will be fine. They'll probably be in a position to upgrade that back in the next couple of quarters. One of them is in the process of being recapped, and at that point, we would actually be paid off, which would be a nice chunk of that.
Speaker #4: And the guarantor is supporting it, so I'm assuming they get the tenant sorted out. I think we'll be fine there. Probably be in a position to upgrade that back in the next couple of quarters.
Speaker #4: One of them is in the process of being recapped. And at that point, we would actually be paid off, which would be a nice chunk of that.
Dennis J. Zember: That one also has a very strong borrower behind it. So I think we don't see substandard on these, and we definitely don't see, big impairments or losses. Yeah.
Dennis Zember: That one also has a very strong borrower behind it. So I think we don't see substandard on these, and we definitely don't see, big impairments or losses. Yeah.
Speaker #3: That also has a very strong borrower, so we don't see substandard on these. And we definitely don't see big impairments or—
Speaker #3: losses.
Speaker #6: Okay.
Christopher Marinac: Okay, great. That's good, color. Thank you for sharing all that, and, thanks for taking all of our questions.
Christopher Marinac: Okay, great. That's good, color. Thank you for sharing all that, and, thanks for taking all of our questions.
Speaker #6: Great. That's good color. Thank you for sharing all that, and thanks for taking all of our questions.
Matthew A. Switzer: You bet.
Matthew A. Switzer: You bet.
Speaker #4: Yeah.
Dennis J. Zember: You know, we-
Dennis Zember: You know, we-
Operator: And that concludes our question and answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Dennis Zember for closing remarks.
Operator: And that concludes our question and answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Dennis Zember for closing remarks.
Speaker #1: And that concludes our question and answer session. I will now turn the call back over to Dennis Zember for closing.
Speaker #1: Remarks. Thank you again for joining.
Dennis J. Zember: Thank you again for joining our call. Thank you for your interest in our company and staying with us through 2025. We look forward to what 2026 will bring, and Matt and I are available for any questions or comments after this if you want to give us a ring. Thanks, and have a safe weekend.
Dennis Zember: Thank you again for joining our call. Thank you for your interest in our company and staying with us through 2025. We look forward to what 2026 will bring, and Matt and I are available for any questions or comments after this if you want to give us a ring. Thanks, and have a safe weekend.
Speaker #4: Our call. Thank you for your interest in our company, and for staying with us through 2025. We look forward to what '26 will bring. Matt and I are available for any questions or comments after this, if you want to give us a ring.
Speaker #4: Thanks, and have a safe weekend.
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.
