American Financial Group Q4 2025 American Financial Group Inc Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q4 2025 American Financial Group Inc Earnings Call
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Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded, I would now like to hand the conference over to your speaker today, Diane Weidner, vice president investor relations. Please go ahead.
Thank you. Good morning and welcome to American Financial groups, fourth quarter and full year 2025 earnings results conference, call, we released our results yesterday afternoon.
Our press release investor supplement and webcast, presentation are posted on afg's website under the investor relations section. These materials will be referenced during portions of today's call.
Joining me this morning are Carl, Lindner III and Craig Lindner co-ceos of American Financial Group and brand hartzman afg CFO.
Before I turn the discussion over to Carl, I would like to draw your attention to the notes on. Slide 2 of our webcast.
Some of the matters to be discussed. Today are forward-looking these forward-looking statements involve certain risks and uncertainties that could cause our actual results and or financial condition to differ materially from the statements,
A detailed description of these risks and uncertainties can be found in afg's filings with the Securities and Exchange Commission, which are also available on our website.
We may include references to cornet operating earnings and non-gaap financial measure in our remarks, or in responses to questions the reconciliation of net, earnings to cornet operating earnings is included in our earnings release.
And finally, if you are reading a transcript of this call, please note that it may not be authorized or reviewed for accuracy. And as a result, it may contain factual or transcription errors that could materially alter the intent or meaning of our statements.
Now, I'm pleased to turn the call over to Craig lender to discuss our results.
Good morning.
Operator: Responses to questions. A reconciliation of net earnings to core net operating earnings is included in our earnings release. And finally, if you are reading a transcript of this call, please note that it may not be authorized or reviewed for accuracy, and as a result, it may contain factual or transcription errors that could materially alter the intent or meaning of our statements. Now, I'm pleased to turn the call over to Craig Lindner to discuss our results.
Responses to questions. A reconciliation of net earnings to core net operating earnings is included in our earnings release. And finally, if you are reading a transcript of this call, please note that it may not be authorized or reviewed for accuracy, and as a result, it may contain factual or transcription errors that could materially alter the intent or meaning of our statements. Now, I'm pleased to turn the call over to Craig Lindner to discuss our results.
Q4 2025 American Financial Group Inc Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Answers to questions. Reconciliation of net earnings to core net operating earnings is included in our earnings release. And finally, if you are reading a transcript of this call, please note that it may not be authorized or reviewed for accuracy, and as a result, it may contain factual or transcription errors that could materially alter the intent or meaning of our statements.
I'll begin by sharing a highlights of afg's 2025, fourth quarter, and full year results after which Carl will walk through more details about our PNC operations and share afg's business plan assumptions for 2026.
Will then open it up for Q&A, where Karl Bryan and I will respond to your questions.
The fourth quarter, marked a strong finish to a great year for afg.
Speaker #1: Now, I'm pleased to turn the call over to Craig Lindner to discuss our results.
Speaker #2: Good morning. I'll begin by sharing the highlights of AFG's fourth quarter and full year 2025 results. After that, Carl will walk through more details about our P&C operations and share AFG's business plan assumptions for 2026.
Craig Lindner: Good morning. I'll begin by sharing highlights of AFG's 2025 Q4 and full year results, after which Carl will walk through more details about our P&C operations and share AFG's business plan assumptions for 2026. We'll then open it up for Q&A, where Carl, Brian, and I will respond to your questions. The fourth quarter marked a strong finish to a great year for AFG. Our compelling mix of specialty insurance businesses, entrepreneurial culture, disciplined operating philosophy, and highly skilled team of in-house investment professionals, collectively have enabled us to outperform many of our peers and continues to position us well for the future. Carl and I thank God, our talented management team, and our great employees for helping us to achieve these results.
Craig Lindner: Good morning. I'll begin by sharing highlights of AFG's 2025 Q4 and full year results, after which Carl will walk through more details about our P&C operations and share AFG's business plan assumptions for 2026. We'll then open it up for Q&A, where Carl, Brian, and I will respond to your questions. The fourth quarter marked a strong finish to a great year for AFG. Our compelling mix of specialty insurance businesses, entrepreneurial culture, disciplined operating philosophy, and highly skilled team of in-house investment professionals, collectively have enabled us to outperform many of our peers and continues to position us well for the future. Carl and I thank God, our talented management team, and our great employees for helping us to achieve these results.
Our compelling mix of specialty Insurance. Businesses entrepreneurial cultures culture, disciplined, operating philosophy and highly skilled team of invest in house investment professionals. Collectively of enabled. Us to outperform many of our peers and continues to position us, well for the future.
Carl and I thank God, our talented management team and our great employees for helping us to achieve these results.
Speaker #2: We'll then open it up for Q&A, where Carl, Brian, and I will respond to your questions. The fourth quarter marked a strong finish to a great year for AFG.
Speaker #2: Our compelling mix of specialty insurance businesses, entrepreneurial cultures, disciplined operating philosophy, and highly skilled team of in-house investment professionals collectively have enabled us to outperform many of our peers and continues to position us well for the future.
As you'll see on slide 3 afg's, core net operating earnings were $10.29 per share for the full year. 2025 generating, a core operating return on Equity of 18.2%.
this Roe is calculated using an average of the 5 most recent quarter in balances of shareholders Equity, excluding aoci
We closed out the year with an exceptionally strong. Fourth quarter.
Speaker #2: Carl and I thank God our talented management team and our great employees for helping us to achieve these results. As you'll see on slide three, AFG's core net operating earnings were $10.29 per share for the full year 2025, generating a core operating return on equity of 18.2%.
Craig Lindner: As you'll see on slide 3, AFG's core net operating earnings were $10.29 per share for the full year 2025, generating a core operating return on equity of 18.2%. This ROE is calculated using an average of the 5 most recent quarter-end balances of shareholders' equity, excluding AOCI. We closed out the year with an exceptionally strong fourth quarter. As you'll see on slides 4 and 5, core net operating earnings per share were $3.65 per share, producing an annualized fourth quarter core return on equity of 25.2%. Capital management is one of our highest priorities. Returning capital to our, to our shareholders is a key component of our capital management strategy and reflects our strong financial position and our confidence in AFG's financial future.
Craig Lindner: As you'll see on slide 3, AFG's core net operating earnings were $10.29 per share for the full year 2025, generating a core operating return on equity of 18.2%. This ROE is calculated using an average of the 5 most recent quarter-end balances of shareholders' equity, excluding AOCI. We closed out the year with an exceptionally strong fourth quarter. As you'll see on slides 4 and 5, core net operating earnings per share were $3.65 per share, producing an annualized fourth quarter core return on equity of 25.2%. Capital management is one of our highest priorities. Returning capital to our, to our shareholders is a key component of our capital management strategy and reflects our strong financial position and our confidence in AFG's financial future.
as you'll see, on slides, 4 and 5, cornet operating earnings per share were 3 dollars 65 cents, per share producing an annualized, fourth quarter, core return on Equity of 25.2%,
Capital Management is 1 of our highest priorities.
Speaker #2: This ROE is calculated using an average of the five most recent quarter-end balances of shareholders' equity, excluding AOCI. We closed out the year with an exceptionally strong fourth quarter.
Returning Capital to our shareholders is a key component of our Capital Management strategy and reflects our strong financial position and our confidence in afg's financial future.
Speaker #2: As you'll see on slides four and five, core net operating earnings per share were $3.65 per share, producing an annualized fourth quarter core return on equity of 25.2%.
In 2025, we returned over 700 million dollars to shareholders, which included 334 million or 4 dollars per share in special dividends 274 million in regular common stock dividends and 99 million in share repurchases.
Speaker #2: Capital management is one of our highest priorities. Returning capital to our shareholders is a key component of our capital management strategy and reflects our strong financial position and our confidence in AFG's financial future.
Over the past 5 years, dividend payments and share repurchases have totaled 6.3 billion dollars.
Additionally, we increased our quarterly dividend by 10% to an annual rate of 3.352 cents. Per share beginning in October of 2025,
Speaker #2: In 2025, we returned over $700 million to shareholders, which included $334 million, or $4 per share, in special dividends, $274 million in regular common stock dividends, and $99 million in share repurchases.
Craig Lindner: In 2025, we returned over $700 million to shareholders, which included $334 million or $4 per share in special dividends, $274 million in regular common stock dividends, and $99 million in share repurchases. Over the past 5 years, dividend payments and share repurchases have totaled $6.3 billion. Additionally, we increased our quarterly dividend by 10% to an annual rate of $3.52 per share, beginning in October 2025. Now I'd like to turn to an overview of AFG's investment performance and share a few comments about AFG's financial position, capital, and liquidity. The details surrounding our $17.2 billion portfolio are presented on slides 6 and 7.
Craig Lindner: In 2025, we returned over $700 million to shareholders, which included $334 million or $4 per share in special dividends, $274 million in regular common stock dividends, and $99 million in share repurchases. Over the past 5 years, dividend payments and share repurchases have totaled $6.3 billion. Additionally, we increased our quarterly dividend by 10% to an annual rate of $3.52 per share, beginning in October 2025. Now I'd like to turn to an overview of AFG's investment performance and share a few comments about AFG's financial position, capital, and liquidity. The details surrounding our $17.2 billion portfolio are presented on slides 6 and 7.
The details surrounding are 17.2 billion portfolio are presented on, slide, 6 and 7.
Speaker #2: Over the past five years, dividend payments and share repurchases have totaled $6.3 billion. Additionally, we increased our quarterly dividend by 10% to an annual rate of 3.3 dollars and 52 cents per share beginning in October of 2025.
Looking at results for the 2025 fourth quarter.
Property and Casualty net investment income was approximately 12%, lower than the comparable 2024 period, his lower returns, from alternative Investments, more than offset. The impact of higher, interest rates, and higher, balances of invested assets.
Speaker #2: Now I'd like to turn to an overview of AFG's investment performance and share a few comments about AFG's financial position, capital, and liquidity. The details surrounding our $17.2 billion portfolio are presented on slides six and seven.
For the full year. Ended December 31, 20225 PNC, net, investment income, excluding alternative, Investments, increased, 5% year-over-year,
In 65% of our portfolio is invested in fixed maturities.
Speaker #2: Looking at results for the fourth quarter of 2025, property and casualty net investment income was approximately 12% lower than the comparable 2024 period, as lower returns from alternative investments more than offset the impact of higher interest rates and higher balances of invested assets.
Craig Lindner: Looking at results for the 2025 Q4, property and casualty net investment income was approximately 12% lower than the comparable 2024 period, as lower returns from alternative investments more than offset the impact of higher interest rates and higher balances of invested assets. For the full year ended December 31, 2025, P&C net investment income, excluding alternative investments, increased 5% year-over-year. Approximately 65% of our portfolio is invested in fixed maturities. In the current interest rate environment, we're able to invest in fixed maturity securities at yields of approximately 5.25%. The duration of our P&C fixed maturity portfolio, including cash and cash equivalents, was 2.9 years at December 31, 2025.
Craig Lindner: Looking at results for the 2025 Q4, property and casualty net investment income was approximately 12% lower than the comparable 2024 period, as lower returns from alternative investments more than offset the impact of higher interest rates and higher balances of invested assets. For the full year ended December 31, 2025, P&C net investment income, excluding alternative investments, increased 5% year-over-year. Approximately 65% of our portfolio is invested in fixed maturities. In the current interest rate environment, we're able to invest in fixed maturity securities at yields of approximately 5.25%. The duration of our P&C fixed maturity portfolio, including cash and cash equivalents, was 2.9 years at December 31, 2025.
And the current interest rate environment, we're able to invest in fixed maturity Securities it yields of approximately 5 and a quarter percent.
The duration of our PNC. Fixed maturity portfolio, including cash and cash, equivalents was 2.9 years at the December 31 20225.
Speaker #2: For the full year ended December 31, 2025, P&C net investment income excluding alternative investments increased 5% year over year. Approximately 65% of our portfolio is invested in fixed maturities.
The annualized return on alternative Investments and our PNC portfolio was 0.9% for the fourth quarter of 2025 compared to 4.9% for the prior year quarter.
Speaker #2: In the current interest rate environment, we're able to invest in fixed maturity securities at yields of approximately 5.25%. The duration of our P&C fixed maturity portfolio including cash and cash equivalents was 2.9 years at December 31, 2025.
Although the overall Returns on our multifamily investments continued to be impacted by an excess supply of new properties. In some of our targeted markets, we are seeing signs of recovery.
New starts have fallen nearly 50% since 20122 and completions peaked in 2024 and are rapidly rapidly declining.
Speaker #2: The annualized return on alternative investments in our P&C portfolio was 0.9% for the fourth quarter of 2025 compared to 4.9% for the prior year quarter.
Craig Lindner: The annualized return on alternative investments in our P&C portfolio was 0.9% for Q4 2025, compared to 4.9% for the prior year quarter. Although the overall returns on our multifamily investments continue to be impacted by an excess supply of new properties in some of our targeted markets, we are seeing signs of recovery. New starts have fallen nearly 50% since 2022, and completions peaked in 2024 and are rapidly declining. We continue to believe that in the last half of 2026, the tightening supply and significantly reduced pipeline will drive higher rental and occupancy rates. Importantly, a sizable portion of our portfolio of multifamily properties is located in desirable geographies with strong job and wage growth.
Craig Lindner: The annualized return on alternative investments in our P&C portfolio was 0.9% for Q4 2025, compared to 4.9% for the prior year quarter. Although the overall returns on our multifamily investments continue to be impacted by an excess supply of new properties in some of our targeted markets, we are seeing signs of recovery. New starts have fallen nearly 50% since 2022, and completions peaked in 2024 and are rapidly declining. We continue to believe that in the last half of 2026, the tightening supply and significantly reduced pipeline will drive higher rental and occupancy rates. Importantly, a sizable portion of our portfolio of multifamily properties is located in desirable geographies with strong job and wage growth.
We continue to believe that in the last half of 2026, the tightening Supply and significantly reduced pipeline will drive. Higher rental, add occupancy rates.
Speaker #2: Although the overall returns on our multifamily investments continued to be impacted by an excess supply of new properties in some of our targeted markets, we are seeing signs of recovery.
Importantly, a sizable portion of our portfolio of multifamily properties is located in desirable geographies with strong job and wage growth.
Speaker #2: New starts have fallen nearly 50% since 2022, and completions peaked in 2024 and are rapidly declining. We continue to believe that in the last half of 2026, the tightening supply and significantly reduced pipeline will drive higher rental and occupancy rates.
Longer term we continue to remain optimistic regarding the prospects of attractive returns from our overall alternative Investment Portfolio with an expectation of annual returns averaging, 10% or better.
Please turn to slide 8 where you'll find a summary of afg's financial position at December, 31st 2025.
Speaker #2: Importantly, a sizable portion of our portfolio of multifamily properties is located in desirable geographies with strong job and wage growth. Longer term, we continue to remain optimistic regarding the prospects of attractive returns from our overall alternative investment portfolio, with an expectation of annual returns averaging 10% or better.
During the fourth quarter, we returned 240 million, to our shareholders, through the payment of a 2 per share special dividend in November.
And a regular 88 Cent per share, quarterly dividend.
Craig Lindner: Longer term, we continue to remain optimistic regarding the prospects of attractive returns from our overall alternative investment portfolio, with an expectation of annual returns averaging 10% or better. Please turn to slide 8, where you'll find a summary of AFG's financial position at 31 December 2025. During the fourth quarter, we returned $240 million to our shareholders through the payment of a $2 per share special dividend in November and a regular $0.88 per share quarterly dividend. In conjunction with our fourth quarter earnings release, we declared a special dividend of $1.50 per share, payable on 25 February 2026, to shareholders of record on 16 February 2026. The aggregate amount of the special dividend will be approximately $125 million.
Craig Lindner: Longer term, we continue to remain optimistic regarding the prospects of attractive returns from our overall alternative investment portfolio, with an expectation of annual returns averaging 10% or better. Please turn to slide 8, where you'll find a summary of AFG's financial position at 31 December 2025. During the fourth quarter, we returned $240 million to our shareholders through the payment of a $2 per share special dividend in November and a regular $0.88 per share quarterly dividend. In conjunction with our fourth quarter earnings release, we declared a special dividend of $1.50 per share, payable on 25 February 2026, to shareholders of record on 16 February 2026. The aggregate amount of the special dividend will be approximately $125 million.
In conjunction with our fourth quarter earnings release, we declared a special dividend of 1.50 cents per share payable on February 25th, 2026 to shareholders of record on February 16th 2026.
Speaker #2: Please turn to slide eight, where you'll find a summary of AFG's financial position at December 31, 2025. During the fourth quarter, we returned $240 million to our shareholders through the payment of a $2 per share special dividend in November and a regular 88 cent per share quarterly dividend.
The aggregate aggregate amount of the special dividend will be approximately 125 million.
With this special dividend, the company is declared 55 and a half dollars per share or 4.7 billion dollars in special dividends since the beginning of 2021.
Afg ended the year in a strong Capital position.
Speaker #2: In conjunction with our fourth quarter earnings release, we declared $1.50 per share, payable on February 25, 2026, to shareholders of record on February 16, 2026.
Our leverage ratio is less than 28%. We have no debt maturities until 2 2030 and our insurance company. Financial strength. Ratings are at the A+ level for am best and standard in pores.
Speaker #2: The aggregate amount of the special a special dividend of dividend will be approximately $125 million. With this special dividend, the company has declared 55.5 dollars per share or 4.7 billion dollars in special dividends since the beginning of 2021.
Craig Lindner: With this special dividend, the company has declared $55.50 per share or $4.7 billion in special dividends since the beginning of 2021. AFG ended the year in a strong capital position. Our leverage ratio is less than 28%. We have no debt maturities until 2030, and our insurance company financial strength ratings are at the A+ level for AM Best and Standard & Poor's. We expect our operations to continue to generate significant excess capital in 2026, which provides ample opportunity for acquisitions, additional special dividends, or share repurchases over the rest of the year. We evaluate the best alternatives for capital deployment on a regular basis.
Craig Lindner: With this special dividend, the company has declared $55.50 per share or $4.7 billion in special dividends since the beginning of 2021. AFG ended the year in a strong capital position. Our leverage ratio is less than 28%. We have no debt maturities until 2030, and our insurance company financial strength ratings are at the A+ level for AM Best and Standard & Poor's. We expect our operations to continue to generate significant excess capital in 2026, which provides ample opportunity for acquisitions, additional special dividends, or share repurchases over the rest of the year. We evaluate the best alternatives for capital deployment on a regular basis.
We expect our operations to continue to generate significant excess capital on 2026 which provides ample opportunity for Acquisitions additional special dividends or share repurchases over the rest of the year.
We evaluate the best alternatives for Capital deployment on a regular basis.
Speaker #2: AFG ended the year in a strong capital position. Our leverage ratio is less than 28%. We have no debt maturities until 2030, and our insurance company financial strength ratings are at the A-plus level for AM Best and Standard and Poor's.
We continue to view total value creation as measured by growth and Book. Value Plus dividends is an important measure of performance over the long term.
For the year, ended December 31, 2025 afg's growth in book value per share. Excluding aoci plus, dividends was 17.2%.
Speaker #2: We expect our operations to continue to generate significant excess capital in 2026, which provides ample opportunity for acquisitions, additional special dividends, or share repurchases over the rest of the year.
We're extremely proud of the value we've created for shareholders over time.
I'll now turn the call over to Carl to discuss the results of our PNC operations and our business plan assumptions for 2026.
Speaker #2: We evaluate the best alternatives for capital deployment on a regular basis. We continue to view total value creation as measured by growth dividends as an important measure of performance in book value plus over the long term.
Craig Lindner: We continue to view total value creation, as measured by growth in book value plus dividends, is an important measure of performance over the long term. For the year ended December 31, 2025, AFG's growth in book value per share, excluding AOCI, plus dividends, was 17.2%. We're extremely proud of the value we've created for shareholders over time. I'll now turn the call over to Carl to discuss the results of our P&C operations and our business plan assumptions for 2026.
Craig Lindner: We continue to view total value creation, as measured by growth in book value plus dividends, is an important measure of performance over the long term. For the year ended December 31, 2025, AFG's growth in book value per share, excluding AOCI, plus dividends, was 17.2%. We're extremely proud of the value we've created for shareholders over time. I'll now turn the call over to Carl to discuss the results of our P&C operations and our business plan assumptions for 2026.
Speaker #2: For the year ended December 31, 2025, AFG's growth in book value per share excluding AOCI plus dividends was 17.2%. We're extremely proud of the value we've created for shareholders over time.
All the businesses and our Diversified specialty PNC. Portfolio, continue to meet or exceed targeted returns. And we continue to feel confident about the strength of our Reserves.
Speaker #2: I'll now turn the call over to Carl to discuss the results of our P&C operations and our business plan assumptions for 2026. Thank you, Craig.
Uh, we have assembled a diversified portfolio of specialty, property casualty businesses, that helps us navigate the Peaks and valleys of the insurance cycle and respond to changing economic conditions.
Carl Lindner: Thank you, Craig. Please turn to slides 9 and 10 of the webcast, which include an overview of our fourth quarter results. Fourth quarter underwriting profits set a new quarterly record for AFG, led by exceptionally strong profitability in our crop insurance operations. Nearly all the businesses in our diversified specialty P&C portfolio continue to meet or exceed targeted returns, and we continue to feel confident about the strength of our reserves. We've assembled a diversified portfolio of specialty property and casualty businesses that helps us navigate the peaks and valleys of the insurance cycle and respond to changing economic conditions. The non-correlation of many of our businesses, both to each other and to the broader insurance market, has been instrumental to AFG's strong and consistent performance over many years.
Carl Lindner: Thank you, Craig. Please turn to slides 9 and 10 of the webcast, which include an overview of our fourth quarter results. Fourth quarter underwriting profits set a new quarterly record for AFG, led by exceptionally strong profitability in our crop insurance operations. Nearly all the businesses in our diversified specialty P&C portfolio continue to meet or exceed targeted returns, and we continue to feel confident about the strength of our reserves. We've assembled a diversified portfolio of specialty property and casualty businesses that helps us navigate the peaks and valleys of the insurance cycle and respond to changing economic conditions. The non-correlation of many of our businesses, both to each other and to the broader insurance market, has been instrumental to AFG's strong and consistent performance over many years.
Speaker #2: Please turn to slides nine and ten of the webcast, which include an overview of our fourth quarter results. Fourth quarter underwriting profits set a new quarterly record for AFG, led by exceptionally strong profitability in our crop insurance operations.
The non-correlation of many of our businesses, both each other and to the broader Insurance Market has been instrumental to afg strong and consistent performance over many years.
Speaker #2: Nearly all the businesses in our diversified specialty P&C portfolio continue to meet or exceed targeted returns, and we continue to feel confident about the strength of our reserves.
Turning the slide 9 you'll see that underwriting profit in our specialty property and cash in the insurance. Businesses grew 41%, and generated an outstanding 84.1 combined ratio on the fourth quarter of 2025 and Improvement of nearly 5 Points from the prior year period.
Speaker #2: We've assembled a diversified portfolio of specialty property and casualty businesses that helps us navigate the peaks and valleys of the insurance cycle and respond to changing economic conditions.
Speaker #2: The non-correlation of many of our businesses, both to each other and to the broader insurance market, has been instrumental to AFG's strong and consistent performance over many years.
Speaker #2: Turning to slide nine, you'll see that underwriting profit in our Specialty Property and Casualty insurance businesses grew 41% and generated an outstanding 84.1 combined ratio in the fourth quarter of 2025, an improvement of nearly 5 points from the prior-year period.
Carl Lindner: Turning to slide 9, you'll see that underwriting profit in our specialty property and casualty insurance businesses grew 41% and generated an outstanding 84.1 combined ratio in Q4 2025, an improvement of nearly 5 points from the prior year period. Results for the 2025 Q4 include 0.2 points related to catastrophe losses, compared to 1.1 points in the 2024 Q4. Q4 2025 results benefited from 1.6 points of favorable prior year reserve development, compared to 1.8 points of adverse prior year reserve development in Q4 2024. Q4 2025 gross written premiums were up 2%, and net written premiums were down 1% when compared to the same period in 2024.
Carl Lindner: Turning to slide 9, you'll see that underwriting profit in our specialty property and casualty insurance businesses grew 41% and generated an outstanding 84.1 combined ratio in Q4 2025, an improvement of nearly 5 points from the prior year period. Results for the 2025 Q4 include 0.2 points related to catastrophe losses, compared to 1.1 points in the 2024 Q4. Q4 2025 results benefited from 1.6 points of favorable prior year reserve development, compared to 1.8 points of adverse prior year reserve development in Q4 2024. Q4 2025 gross written premiums were up 2%, and net written premiums were down 1% when compared to the same period in 2024.
Fourth quarter, 2025 gross written premiums were up 2% and net. Written premiums were down 1% when compared to the same period in 2024.
Speaker #2: Results for the 2025 fourth quarter include 0.2 points related to catastrophe losses compared to 1.1 points in the 2024 fourth quarter. Fourth quarter 2025 results benefited from 1.6 points of favorable prior year 1.8 points of adverse prior year reserve development in the fourth quarter, of 2024.
For the full year. Gross, written premiums increased 2% and net written premiums were flat as noted. We continued to benefit from the diversification across our 36 businesses and Achieve premium growth. In many of them as a result of a combination of new business opportunities, a good renewal rate environment and increased exposures uh, while remaining disciplined and focused on underwriting profitability. In some of the more challenging markets,
Speaker #2: Fourth quarter 2025 gross written premiums were up 2%, and net written premiums were down 1% when compared to the same period in 2024. For the full year, gross written premiums increased 2%, and net written premiums were flat.
Carl Lindner: For the full year, gross written premiums increased 2% and net written premiums were flat. As noted, we continued to benefit from the diversification across our 36 businesses and achieved premium growth in many of them as a result of a combination of new business opportunities, a good renewal rate environment, and increased exposures, while remaining disciplined and focused on underwriting profitability in some of the more challenging markets. Average renewal rates across our property and casualty group, excluding workers' comp, were up approximately 5% for the quarter, in line with the previous quarter. Average renewal rates, including workers' comp, were up approximately 4% overall. We've reported overall renewal rate increases for 38 consecutive quarters, and we believe we're achieving overall renewal rate increases in excess of prospective loss ratio trends, allowing us to meet or exceed targeted returns.
Carl Lindner: For the full year, gross written premiums increased 2% and net written premiums were flat. As noted, we continued to benefit from the diversification across our 36 businesses and achieved premium growth in many of them as a result of a combination of new business opportunities, a good renewal rate environment, and increased exposures, while remaining disciplined and focused on underwriting profitability in some of the more challenging markets. Average renewal rates across our property and casualty group, excluding workers' comp, were up approximately 5% for the quarter, in line with the previous quarter. Average renewal rates, including workers' comp, were up approximately 4% overall. We've reported overall renewal rate increases for 38 consecutive quarters, and we believe we're achieving overall renewal rate increases in excess of prospective loss ratio trends, allowing us to meet or exceed targeted returns.
Average renewal rates across our Property and Casualty group. Excluding workers comp. We're up approximately 5% for the quarter in line with the previous quarter average renewal rates, including workers comp or up approximately 4% overall.
Speaker #2: As noted, we continued to benefit from the diversification across our 36 businesses and achieved premium growth in many of them as a result of a combination of new business opportunities, a good renewal rate environment, and increased exposures.
Uh We've reported overall rate renewal rate increases for 38 consecutive quarters and we believe we're achieving overall renewal rate increases in excess of prospective loss ratio Trends allowing us to meet or exceed targeted returns.
Speaker #2: While remaining disciplined and focused on underwriting profitability in some of the more challenging markets, average renewal rates across our property and casualty group, excluding workers' comp, were up approximately 5% for the quarter, in line with the previous quarter.
Now I'd like to turn to slide 10 to review a few highways. From each of our specialty property casualty business groups, details are included in our earnings release so I'll focus on summary results here.
Speaker #2: Average renewal rates, including workers' comp, were up approximately 4% overall. We've reported overall renewal rate increases for 38 consecutive quarters, and we believe we're achieving overall renewal rate increases in excess of prospective loss ratio trends, allowing us to meet or exceed targeted returns.
Speaker #2: Now I'd like to turn to slide ten to review a few highlights from each of our specialty property and casualty business groups. Details are included in our earnings release, so I'll focus on summary results here.
Carl Lindner: Now, I'd like to turn to slide 10 to review a few highlights from each of our specialty property and casualty business groups. Details are included in our earnings release, so I'll focus on summary results here. The businesses in the Property and Transportation group achieved an outstanding 70.6% calendar year combined ratio in the Q4 of 2025, an improvement of nearly 19 points from the comparable 2024 period. Record yields for corn and soybeans and favorable commodity pricing trends throughout the growing season, which contributed to a very strong crop year, and lower year-over-year catastrophe losses in our property-exposed businesses, were drivers of these exceptional results.
Carl Lindner: Now, I'd like to turn to slide 10 to review a few highlights from each of our specialty property and casualty business groups. Details are included in our earnings release, so I'll focus on summary results here. The businesses in the Property and Transportation group achieved an outstanding 70.6% calendar year combined ratio in the Q4 of 2025, an improvement of nearly 19 points from the comparable 2024 period. Record yields for corn and soybeans and favorable commodity pricing trends throughout the growing season, which contributed to a very strong crop year, and lower year-over-year catastrophe losses in our property-exposed businesses, were drivers of these exceptional results.
The business is in the property Transportation group, achieved an outstanding 70.6% calendar year, combined ratio on the fourth quarter of 2025 and Improvement of nearly 1924 period record yields for corn and soybeans and favorable commodity pricing Trends throughout the growing season, which contributed to a very strong crop year and lower year-over-year. Catastrophe losses in our property. Exposed businesses were drivers of these exceptional results.
Speaker #2: The businesses in the Property and Transportation Group achieved an outstanding 70.6% calendar year combined ratio in the fourth quarter of 2025, an improvement of nearly 19 points from the comparable 2024 period.
Fourth quarter, gross, written premiums for 2025, in this group, increased 5% from the comparable, uh, prior year period, uh, for the fourth quarter of 2025. Well, net, written premiums were approximately 2% lower year-over-year
Speaker #2: Record yields for corn and soybeans and favorable commodity pricing trends throughout the growing season contributed to a very strong crop year, and lower year-over-year catastrophe losses in our property-exposed businesses were drivers of these exceptional results.
Increase in Gross, written premiums was due primarily to growth in our crop products that are heavily seated. And to a lesser extent growth in a transportation captive that has higher premium sessions.
Speaker #2: Fourth quarter gross written premiums for 2025 in this group increased 5% from the comparable prior year period for the fourth quarter of 2025, while net written premiums were approximately 2% lower year-over-year.
Carl Lindner: Q4 gross written premiums for 2025 in this group increased 5% from the comparable prior year period for Q4 2025, while net written premiums were approximately 2% lower year over year. The increase in gross written premiums was due primarily to growth in our crop products that are heavily seeded, and to a lesser extent, growth in a transportation captive that has higher premium cessions. Overall renewal rates in this group increased approximately 6% on average in Q4 2025, consistent with pricing in the previous quarter. Pricing for the full year for this group was up approximately 7% overall.
Carl Lindner: Q4 gross written premiums for 2025 in this group increased 5% from the comparable prior year period for Q4 2025, while net written premiums were approximately 2% lower year over year. The increase in gross written premiums was due primarily to growth in our crop products that are heavily seeded, and to a lesser extent, growth in a transportation captive that has higher premium cessions. Overall renewal rates in this group increased approximately 6% on average in Q4 2025, consistent with pricing in the previous quarter. Pricing for the full year for this group was up approximately 7% overall.
Overall renewal rates uh in this group increased approximately 6% on average in the fourth quarter 2025 consistent with pricing in the previous quarter pricing for the full year. For this group was up approximately 7% overall,
Speaker #2: The increase in gross written premiums was due primarily to growth in our crop products that are heavily seeded and to a lesser extent growth in a transportation captive that has higher premium sessions.
We continue to remain focused on rate, adequacy particularly in our Commercial Auto liability line of business where rates were up approximately 15% in the fourth quarter and up 14% for the full year.
Speaker #2: Overall renewal rates in this group increased approximately 6% on average in the fourth quarter of 2025, consistent with pricing in the previous quarter. Pricing for the full year for this group was up approximately 7% overall.
The businesses in our specialty casualty group achieved in 96.7 calendar year combined, uh, ratio overall in the fourth quarter, 5.3 points higher than the 91.4%, uh, reported in the comparable period in 2024 combined ratios at this level, uh, for these longer tail lines of business, typically generate Returns on equity in the High Teens are better.
Speaker #2: We continue to remain focused on rate adequacy, particularly in our commercial auto liability line of business, where rates were up approximately 15% in the fourth quarter and up 14% for the full year.
Carl Lindner: We continue to remain focused on rate adequacy, particularly in our commercial auto liability line of business, where rates were up approximately 15% in the fourth quarter and up 14% for the full year. The businesses in our specialty casualty group achieved a 96.7 calendar year combined ratio overall in the fourth quarter, 5.3 points higher than the 91.4%, reported in the comparable period in 2024. Combined ratios at this level, for these longer-tailed lines of business, typically generate returns on equity in the high teens or better. Fourth quarter 2025 gross and net written premiums increased 2% and 3%, respectively, when compared to the same prior year period.
Carl Lindner: We continue to remain focused on rate adequacy, particularly in our commercial auto liability line of business, where rates were up approximately 15% in the fourth quarter and up 14% for the full year. The businesses in our specialty casualty group achieved a 96.7 calendar year combined ratio overall in the fourth quarter, 5.3 points higher than the 91.4%, reported in the comparable period in 2024. Combined ratios at this level, for these longer-tailed lines of business, typically generate returns on equity in the high teens or better. Fourth quarter 2025 gross and net written premiums increased 2% and 3%, respectively, when compared to the same prior year period.
Speaker #2: The businesses in our specialty casualty group achieved a 96.7% calendar year combined ratio overall in the fourth than the 91.4% reported in the comparable period in 2024.
Speaker #2: level for these longer tailed lines of Combined ratios at this business typically generate returns on equity in the high teens or better. Fourth quarter 2025 gross and net written premiums increased 2% and 3% respectively, when compared to the same prior year period.
% and 3%, respectively. When compared to the same prior year period, primary drivers of growth included, new business opportunities in favorable renewal pricing and are targeted markets business, new business opportunities, and our mergers and acquisition business growth in our workers, comp businesses and new premiums from 1 of our startup businesses. Uh, growth was tempered by a lower year-over-year premiums in our executive liability and excess and surplus wines business where we experience, heightened competitive pressures for both new and renewal business.
Overall, renewal pricing in this group uh, was up about 5% during the fourth quarter.
Speaker #2: Primary drivers of growth included new business opportunities, favorable renewal pricing, and our targeted markets business, new business opportunities, and our mergers and acquisition business.
Carl Lindner: Primary drivers of growth included new business opportunities, and favorable renewal pricing in our targeted markets business, new business opportunities in our mergers and acquisition business, growth in our workers' comp businesses, and new premiums from one of our startup businesses. Growth was tempered by lower year-over-year premiums in our executive liability and excess and surplus lines business, where we experienced heightened competitive pressures for both new and renewal business. Overall, renewal pricing in this group was up about 5% during Q4. Average renewal pricing, excluding workers' comp, was up 6% in Q4. For the full year, pricing, excluding workers' comp, was up about 8%.
Carl Lindner: Primary drivers of growth included new business opportunities, and favorable renewal pricing in our targeted markets business, new business opportunities in our mergers and acquisition business, growth in our workers' comp businesses, and new premiums from one of our startup businesses. Growth was tempered by lower year-over-year premiums in our executive liability and excess and surplus lines business, where we experienced heightened competitive pressures for both new and renewal business. Overall, renewal pricing in this group was up about 5% during Q4. Average renewal pricing, excluding workers' comp, was up 6% in Q4. For the full year, pricing, excluding workers' comp, was up about 8%.
Average renewal pricing excluding workers comp was up 6% in the fourth quarter for the full year pricing. Excluding workers comp was up about 8%.
Speaker #2: Businesses and new premiums growth in our workers' comp from one of our startup businesses. Growth was tempered by lower year-over-year premiums in our executive liability and excess and surplus lines business, where we experienced heightened competitive pressures for both new and renewal business.
Speaker #2: Overall renewal pricing in this group was up about 5% during the fourth quarter. Average renewal pricing, excluding workers' comp, was up 6% in the fourth quarter.
And I am I continue to be pleased that we continue to cheve, Renewal rate increases of 10% or better during the quarter and several of our social inflation exposed businesses, including our social services, and excess liability businesses, with full year increases across these lines in the range of 13 to 15%. In addition, our workers compensation businesses, collectively achieved a modest pricing increase during the quarter, similar to our results in the third quarter.
Speaker #2: For the full year, pricing excluding workers' comp was up about 8%. And I continue to be pleased that we continue to achieve renewal rate increases of 10% or better during the quarter in several of our social inflation-exposed businesses.
Carl Lindner: And I continue to be pleased that we continue to achieve renewal rate increases of 10% or better during the quarter in several of our social inflation-exposed businesses, including our Social Services and Excess Liability businesses, with full-year increases across these lines in the range of 13% to 15%. In addition, our Workers' Compensation businesses collectively achieved a modest pricing increase during the quarter, similar to our results in Q3. Moving on to the Specialty Financial group, it continued to achieve excellent underwriting margins, reported an excellent 83 combined ratio for Q4 2025, 2.3 points higher than the prior year period. Q4 2025 gross and net written premiums in this group decreased by 4% and 10%, respectively, when compared to the same prior year period.
Carl Lindner: And I continue to be pleased that we continue to achieve renewal rate increases of 10% or better during the quarter in several of our social inflation-exposed businesses, including our Social Services and Excess Liability businesses, with full-year increases across these lines in the range of 13% to 15%. In addition, our Workers' Compensation businesses collectively achieved a modest pricing increase during the quarter, similar to our results in Q3. Moving on to the Specialty Financial group, it continued to achieve excellent underwriting margins, reported an excellent 83 combined ratio for Q4 2025, 2.3 points higher than the prior year period. Q4 2025 gross and net written premiums in this group decreased by 4% and 10%, respectively, when compared to the same prior year period.
Moving on to the special, the Financial Group continued to achieve, excellent underwriting. Margins reported an excellent 83, combined ratio for the fourth quarter of 2025 2.3 points, higher than the prior year period.
Speaker #2: Including our social services and excess liability businesses, with full-year increases across these lines in the range of 13% to 15%. In addition, our workers' compensation businesses collectively achieved a modest pricing increase during the quarter, similar to our results in the third quarter.
Fourth quarter, 2025 gross, and net. Written premiums in this group decreased by 4% and 10% respectively. When compared to the same prior year, period, higher year-over-year, premiums and our European operations were more than offset uh by lower premiums in our financial institutions business, which has produced very strong growth over the past several years.
Speaker #2: Moving on to the Specialty Financial Group, we continued to achieve excellent underwriting margins, reporting an excellent 83 combined ratio for the fourth quarter of 2025, which is 2.3 points higher than the prior year period.
Uh, net written premiums were tampered uh, by our decision. To cede more of the coastal exposed property business in our financial institutions business, beginning in the second quarter of 2025,
Speaker #2: Fourth quarter 2025 gross and net written premiums in this group decreased by 4% and 10%, respectively, when compared to the same prior year period. Higher year-over-year premiums in our European operations were more than offset by lower premiums in our financial institutions business.
Carl Lindner: Higher year-over-year premiums in our European operations were more than offset by lower premiums in our financial institutions business, which has produced very strong growth over the past several years. Net Written Premiums were tempered by our decision to cede more of the coastal exposed property business in our financial institutions business, beginning in the second quarter of 2025. Now, as we look to 2026, in lieu of providing formal earnings guidance, we have provided several key assumptions underlying our 2026 business plan, which you'll see summarized on slide 11. We believe these assumptions are among the most relevant and helpful to analysts, investors in modeling AFG's business and informing an investment thesis.
Carl Lindner: Higher year-over-year premiums in our European operations were more than offset by lower premiums in our financial institutions business, which has produced very strong growth over the past several years. Net Written Premiums were tempered by our decision to cede more of the coastal exposed property business in our financial institutions business, beginning in the second quarter of 2025. Now, as we look to 2026, in lieu of providing formal earnings guidance, we have provided several key assumptions underlying our 2026 business plan, which you'll see summarized on slide 11. We believe these assumptions are among the most relevant and helpful to analysts, investors in modeling AFG's business and informing an investment thesis.
Now as we look to 2026 in lie of providing formal earnings guidance, we have provided several key assumptions. Underlying our 2026 business plan which you'll see summarized on slide 11. We believe these assumptions are among the most relevant and helpful to analysts investors in modeling, afg's business and informing and investment thesis.
Speaker #2: Which has produced very strong growth over the past several years. Net written premiums were tempered by our decision to cede more of the coastal-exposed property business in our Financial Institutions business beginning in the second quarter of 2025.
Speaker #2: Now, as we look to 2026, in lieu of providing formal earnings guidance, we have provided several key assumptions underlying our 2026 business plan, which you'll see summarized on slide 11.
These assumptions for 2026 include growth in net written premiums of 3 to 5% from the 7.1 billion dollars reported, uh last year, a combined ratio of approximately 92 and a half percent, a reinvestment rate of approximately 5 and a quarter percent and an annual return of approximately 8% on our 2.8 billion dollar portfolio of alternative Investments.
Speaker #2: We believe these assumptions are among the most relevant and helpful to analysts and investors in modeling AFG's business and informing the investment thesis. These assumptions for 2026 include growth in net written premiums of 3% to 5% from the $7.1 billion reported last year, a combined ratio of approximately 92.5%, a reinvestment rate of approximately 5.25%, and an annual return of approximately 8% on our $2.8 billion portfolio of alternative investments.
We expect that performance in line with these assumptions. Would result in corner, coordinate, operating earnings per share of approximately $11 uh in 2026 and generate a core operating return on Equity, excluding aoci of approximately 18%.
Carl Lindner: These assumptions for 2026 include growth in net written premiums of 3% to 5% from the $7.1 billion reported last year, a combined ratio of approximately 92.5%, a reinvestment rate of approximately 5.25%, and an annual return of approximately 8% on our $2.8 billion portfolio of alternative investments. We expect that performance in line with these assumptions would result in core net operating earnings per share of approximately $11 in 2026, and generate a core operating return on equity, excluding AOCI, of approximately 18%. As we consider our outlook on growth, we're optimistic about several of our startup businesses and the near completion of numerous underwriting actions taken in our specialty casualty businesses.
Carl Lindner: These assumptions for 2026 include growth in net written premiums of 3% to 5% from the $7.1 billion reported last year, a combined ratio of approximately 92.5%, a reinvestment rate of approximately 5.25%, and an annual return of approximately 8% on our $2.8 billion portfolio of alternative investments. We expect that performance in line with these assumptions would result in core net operating earnings per share of approximately $11 in 2026, and generate a core operating return on equity, excluding AOCI, of approximately 18%. As we consider our outlook on growth, we're optimistic about several of our startup businesses and the near completion of numerous underwriting actions taken in our specialty casualty businesses.
As we consider our outlook on growth, we're optimistic about several of our startup businesses and the near completion of numerous underwriting actions taken in our specialty casualty businesses.
Speaker #2: We expect that performance in line with these assumptions would result in core net operating earnings per share of approximately $11 in 2026 and generate a core operating return on equity excluding AOCI of approximately 18%.
However, we're mindful pockets of softening rates and continued competitive conditions, and will maintain our discipline bottom line Focus as we pursue opportunities to grow profitably, uh, in 2026.
Our assumptions include an average crop year.
Speaker #2: growth, we're optimistic about several of As we consider our outlook on our startup businesses and the near completion of numerous underwriting actions taken in our specialty casualty businesses.
So, we believe that the combination of our Reserve strength, a continued healthy rate environment, uh, prudent growth and the ability to invest at a rate that exceeds our current portfolio yield positions as well as we enter 2026.
Speaker #2: However, rates and continued competitive conditions will maintain our disciplined bottom-line focus as we pursue opportunities to grow profitably in 2026. Our assumptions include an average crop year.
Carl Lindner: However, we're mindful of pockets of softening rates and continued competitive conditions, and we'll maintain our disciplined bottom-line focus as we pursue opportunities to grow profitably in 2026. Our assumptions include an average crop year. So we believe that the combination of our reserve strength, a continued healthy rate environment, a prudent growth, and the ability to invest at a rate that exceeds our current portfolio yield positions us well as we enter 2026. Craig and I are pleased to report these exceptionally strong results for the Q4 and full year, and we're proud of our proven track record of long-term value creation. Our insurance professionals have exercised their specialty, property, and casualty knowledge and experience to skillfully navigate the marketplace, and our in-house investment team has been both strategic and opportunistic in the management of our $17.2 billion investment portfolio.
Carl Lindner: However, we're mindful of pockets of softening rates and continued competitive conditions, and we'll maintain our disciplined bottom-line focus as we pursue opportunities to grow profitably in 2026. Our assumptions include an average crop year. So we believe that the combination of our reserve strength, a continued healthy rate environment, a prudent growth, and the ability to invest at a rate that exceeds our current portfolio yield positions us well as we enter 2026. Craig and I are pleased to report these exceptionally strong results for the Q4 and full year, and we're proud of our proven track record of long-term value creation. Our insurance professionals have exercised their specialty, property, and casualty knowledge and experience to skillfully navigate the marketplace, and our in-house investment team has been both strategic and opportunistic in the management of our $17.2 billion investment portfolio.
Craig and I are pleased to report. These exceptionally strong results for the fourth quarter and full year, and we're proud of our proven track record of long-term value creation.
Speaker #2: So, we believe that the combination of our reserve strength, a continued healthy rate environment, prudent growth, and the ability to invest at a rate that exceeds our current portfolio yield positions us well as we enter 2026.
Our insurance professionals have exercised their specialty property and casting dollars and experience to skillfully navigate the marketplace and our in-house investment. Team has been both strategic and opportunistic in the management of our 17.2 billion dollar Investment Portfolio.
We look forward to continuing to build long-term value for our shareholders, uh, this year and Beyond, uh, we'll now open the lines for the Q&A portion of today's call Craig and Brian and I would be happy to respond to your questions.
Speaker #2: Craig and I are pleased to report these exceptionally strong results for the fourth quarter and full year, and we're proud of our proven track record of long-term value creation.
Speaker #2: Our insurance professionals have exercised their specialty property and casualty knowledge and experience to skillfully navigate the marketplace and our in-house investment team has been both strategic and opportunistic in the management of our 17.2 billion investment portfolio.
You as a reminder to ask a question. Please press star 1, 1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced to withdraw your question. Please. Press star 1 1 again.
Our first question comes from the line of Christian guests from Wells Fargo.
Speaker #2: We look forward to continuing to build long-term value for our shareholders this year and beyond. We'll now open the lines for the Q&A portion of today's call.
Carl Lindner: We look forward to continuing to build long-term value for our shareholders, this year and beyond. We'll now open the lines for the Q&A portion of today's call. Craig, and Brian, and I would be happy to respond to your questions.
Carl Lindner: We look forward to continuing to build long-term value for our shareholders, this year and beyond. We'll now open the lines for the Q&A portion of today's call. Craig, and Brian, and I would be happy to respond to your questions.
Speaker #2: Craig and Brian and I would be happy to respond to questions. Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star 11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced.
Operator: As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced.
Operator: As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced.
Hi, good morning. Uh, my first question is on the 2026 business plan. I guess. Uh, what is that business plan assumed in terms of rates relative to the 5% PNC, renewal pricing X comp we saw on the Q4 and is there any Assumption of Prior period releases in the 92 and a half combined ratio Target?
Speaker #2: To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. Our first question comes from the line of Christian Guestos from Wells Fargo.
Carl Lindner: ... To withdraw your question, please press star one, one again. Our first question comes from the line of Christian Trost from Wells Fargo.
Carl Lindner: ... To withdraw your question, please press star one, one again. Our first question comes from the line of Christian Trost from Wells Fargo.
Speaker #3: Hi, good morning. My first question is on the 2026 business plan. I guess what does that business plan assume in terms of rates relative to the 5% P&C renewal pricing ex comp we saw on the Q4?
[Analyst] (Wells Fargo): Hi, good morning. My first question is on the 2026 business plan. I guess, what does that business plan assume in terms of rates relative to the 5% P&C renewal pricing ex-comp we saw in the Q4? And is there any assumption of prior period releases in the 92.5 combined ratio target?
Chris Trost: Hi, good morning. My first question is on the 2026 business plan. I guess, what does that business plan assume in terms of rates relative to the 5% P&C renewal pricing ex-comp we saw in the Q4? And is there any assumption of prior period releases in the 92.5 combined ratio target?
Speaker #3: And is there any assumption of prior period releases in the 92.5 combined ratio target?
All right. So when we, when we're looking at our mind ratio overall, we're really not necessarily specifically identifying, any, any amount for prior development. But as you can see, historically, for afg, overall, we've tended to be conservative and had favorable development in most periods. Not that we're immune from adverse development, but but we're hopeful that our our reserving strategy set us up for a likelihood of favorable development more than adverse development. That being said, we would expect, uh, if you're kind of looking at what's happened in 2024 going into in 2025 24 and 25 going into 26 in 24 and 25. We we continue to have a lot of unexpected favorable development out of workers comp.
Speaker #4: Okay. So when we're looking at our combined ratio overall, we're really not necessarily specifically identifying any amount for prior development, but as you can see, historically for AFG overall, we've tended to be conservative and have favorable development in most periods.
Brian Hertzman: All right. When we're looking at our combined ratio overall, we're really not necessarily specifically identifying any amount for prior development. As you can see historically for AFG overall, we've tended to be conservative and have favorable development in most periods. Not that we're immune from adverse development, but we're hopeful that our reserving strategy sets us up for a likelihood of favorable development, more than adverse development. That being said, we would expect, if you kind of look at what's happened in 2024, going into 2025, 2024 and 2025, going into 2026. In 2024 and 2025, we continue to have a lot of unexpected favorable development out of workers' comp, but that was offset by some adverse development in social inflation-exposed businesses.
Brian Hertzman: All right. When we're looking at our combined ratio overall, we're really not necessarily specifically identifying any amount for prior development. As you can see historically for AFG overall, we've tended to be conservative and have favorable development in most periods. Not that we're immune from adverse development, but we're hopeful that our reserving strategy sets us up for a likelihood of favorable development, more than adverse development. That being said, we would expect, if you kind of look at what's happened in 2024, going into 2025, 2024 and 2025, going into 2026. In 2024 and 2025, we continue to have a lot of unexpected favorable development out of workers' comp, but that was offset by some adverse development in social inflation-exposed businesses.
Speaker #4: Not that we're immune from adverse development, but we're hopeful that our reserving strategy sets us up for a likelihood of favorable development more than adverse development.
Speaker #4: That being said, we would expect, if you're kind of looking at what's happened in 2024 going into 2024 and '25 going into '26, in '24 and '25, we continue to have a lot of unexpected favorable development out of workers' comp, but that was offset by some adverse development in social inflation-exposed businesses.
But that was offset by some adverse development and social inflation exposed businesses going into 2026, not that we have a crystal ball but we would expect that the workers comp will not continue to develop as favorably as it has in the past. But we also given rate actions and reserving actions that we've taken uh when it would not expect the adverse development from the casualty lines to reoccur as far as pricing goes. I think we we feel confident that we'll be able to continue to get good prices where we need them. There are other businesses like our financial institutions business where rate increases have moderated but those businesses are are very profitable and manageable at the levels that they are.
Got it. Thank you. And then
Speaker #4: Going into 2026, not that we have a crystal ball, but we would expect that the workers' comp will not continue to develop as favorably as it has in the past. But we also, given rate actions and reserving actions that we've taken, would not expect the adverse development from the casualty lines to reoccur.
Brian Hertzman: Going into 2026, not that we have a crystal ball, but we would expect that the workers' comp will not continue to develop as favorably as it has in the past. But we also, given rate actions and reserving actions that we've taken, would not expect the adverse development from the casualty lines to reoccur. As far as pricing goes, I think we feel confident that we'll be able to continue to get good price increases where we need them. There are other businesses, like our financial institutions business, where rate increases have moderated, but those businesses are very profitable and manageable at the levels that they are.
Brian Hertzman: Going into 2026, not that we have a crystal ball, but we would expect that the workers' comp will not continue to develop as favorably as it has in the past. But we also, given rate actions and reserving actions that we've taken, would not expect the adverse development from the casualty lines to reoccur. As far as pricing goes, I think we feel confident that we'll be able to continue to get good price increases where we need them. There are other businesses, like our financial institutions business, where rate increases have moderated, but those businesses are very profitable and manageable at the levels that they are.
Speaker #4: As far as pricing goes, I think we feel confident that we'll still be able to continue to get good price increases where we need them.
For the quarter, we saw a pretty meaningful uptick in the casualty, uh, underlying loss ratio. Um, was there any change in Los picks or was that more reflective of just being conservative giving continued elevated loss? Trends or was there something you saw in the quarter that led to the change and I guess is that pick something that we could run rate going forward or or any other color there would be appreciated
Speaker #4: There are other businesses, like our financial institutions business, where rate increases have moderated, but those businesses are very profitable and manageable at the levels that they
Speaker #4: are. Got it.
[Analyst] (Wells Fargo): Got it. Thank you. And then for the quarter, we saw a pretty meaningful uptick in the casualty underlying loss ratio. Was there any change in loss picks, or was that more reflective of just being conservative, giving continued elevated loss trends? Or was there something you saw in the quarter that led to the change? And I guess, is that pick something that we could run rate going forward, or, or any other color there would be appreciated.
Chris Trost: Got it. Thank you. And then for the quarter, we saw a pretty meaningful uptick in the casualty underlying loss ratio. Was there any change in loss picks, or was that more reflective of just being conservative, giving continued elevated loss trends? Or was there something you saw in the quarter that led to the change? And I guess, is that pick something that we could run rate going forward, or, or any other color there would be appreciated.
Speaker #3: Thank you. And then for the quarter, we saw a pretty meaningful uptick in the casualty underlying loss ratio. Was there any change in loss picks, or was that more reflective of just being conservative, given continued elevated loss trends?
Sure, sure. Is it when you look at the, uh, so you're looking at an accent year or a loss ratio, excluding cats for the casualty group in the quarter. Uh, what you'll see there is continued caution around our social inflation exposed businesses, like our social services business, publicly entity business and certain excess liability businesses. We've
Speaker #3: Or was there something you saw in the quarter that led to the change? And I guess is that pick something that we could run rate going forward, or any other color there would be
Speaker #3: appreciated? Sure.
Brian Hertzman: Sure. Sure. So when you look at the accident year loss ratio, excluding cats for the casualty group in the quarter, what you'll see there is continued caution around our social inflation-exposed businesses, like our social services business, public entity business, and certain excess liability businesses, where we've seen intermittent small pockets of adverse development in recent periods. So we are being cautious there in our current picks. Also, when you look at our relatively small book of California Workers' Compensation Insurance, with the legal environment and things like cumulative trauma in that area, we are also being cautious in our accident year pick there.
Brian Hertzman: Sure. Sure. So when you look at the accident year loss ratio, excluding cats for the casualty group in the quarter, what you'll see there is continued caution around our social inflation-exposed businesses, like our social services business, public entity business, and certain excess liability businesses, where we've seen intermittent small pockets of adverse development in recent periods. So we are being cautious there in our current picks. Also, when you look at our relatively small book of California Workers' Compensation Insurance, with the legal environment and things like cumulative trauma in that area, we are also being cautious in our accident year pick there.
Speaker #4: Sure. So, when you look at the—so you're looking at accident year loss ratio excluding cats for the casualty group in the quarter. What you'll see there is continued caution around our social inflation-exposed businesses.
See an intermittent small pockets of adverse development, uh, in in recent periods. So we are being cautious there in our current picks. Also, when you look at our, our relatively small book of California workers, compensation insurance with the legal environment and things like cumulative. Trauma in that area, we are also being cautious in our accident ear. Pick their, we couple that with the rate increases that we have achieved in our achieving, we're hopeful that those lost pixels. Set us up for a better chance of favorable development in future periods.
Got it. Thank you.
Speaker #4: Like our social services business, publicly entity business, in certain excess liability businesses, where we've seen intermittent small pockets of adverse development in recent periods.
You 1 moment for our next question.
Our next question comes from the line of Gregory Peters from Raymond James.
Speaker #4: So, we are being cautious there in our current picks. Also, when you look at our relatively small book of California workers' compensation insurance, with the legal environment and things like cumulative trauma in that area, we are also being cautious in our accident year pick there.
Hi, good morning everyone. Um, I guess I just wanted to follow up on the workers comp comments. Um, Brian I'm was there, was there something unusual in the frequency or medical Trend. Um,
Speaker #4: We decouple that with the rate increases that we have achieved and are achieving; we're hopeful that those loss picks will set us up for a better chance of favorable development in future periods.
Speaker #4: We decouple that with the rate increases that we have achieved and are achieving; we're hopeful that those loss picks will set us up for a better chance of favorable development in the future.
Brian Hertzman: When you couple that with the rate increases that we have achieved and are achieving, we're hopeful that those loss picks will set us up for a better chance of favorable development in future periods.
Brian Hertzman: When you couple that with the rate increases that we have achieved and are achieving, we're hopeful that those loss picks will set us up for a better chance of favorable development in future periods.
Speaker #3: Got it. Thank you.
[Analyst] (Wells Fargo): Got it. Thank you.
Chris Trost: Got it. Thank you.
Speaker #2: Thank you. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Gregory Peters from Raymond.
Carl Lindner: You. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Gregory Peters from Raymond James.
Carl Lindner: You. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Gregory Peters from Raymond James.
In a particular State this year, that that led to the the the results that you reported or was this across the book and I was interested in your comment about cumulative. Trauma. I know that's popped up. Um, and I was on the radar for other workers comp companies. I'm wondering if you could provide some color on how you're viewing that risk right now.
Speaker #2: James. Good morning, everyone.
Gregory Peters: Good morning, everyone. I guess I just wanted to follow up on the workers' comp comments, Brian. Was there something unusual in the frequency or medical trend, in a particular state this year that led to the results that you reported, or was this across the book? And I was interested in your comment about cumulative trauma. I know that's popped up, and is on the radar for other workers' comp companies. I wonder if you could provide some color on how you're viewing that risk right now.
Gregory Peters: Good morning, everyone. I guess I just wanted to follow up on the workers' comp comments, Brian. Was there something unusual in the frequency or medical trend, in a particular state this year that led to the results that you reported, or was this across the book? And I was interested in your comment about cumulative trauma. I know that's popped up, and is on the radar for other workers' comp companies. I wonder if you could provide some color on how you're viewing that risk right now.
Speaker #5: I guess I just wanted to follow up on the workers' comp comments. Brian, was there something unusual in the frequency or medical trend in a particular state this year that led to the results that you reported or was this across the book?
Speaker #5: And I was interested in your comment about cumulative trauma. I know that's popped up, and I was on the radar for other workers' comp companies.
Speaker #5: I wonder if you could provide some color on how you're viewing that risk right now.
Speaker #5: now. For the most
Carl Lindner: You know, for the most part, Greg, you know, our loss trends, you know, our loss ratio trends continue to be pretty benign, and that, you know, positive trends around frequency, severity, you know, not being abnormal. So in our workers' comp business, we-- our overall results for workers' comp, both on a calendar year and an accident year basis in 2025, continue to be excellent. That said, the calendar year combined ratio for overall comp business in 2025, you know, was a few points higher than last year, and I've been kind of, you know, pointing that out, you know, probably every quarter. And we probably, you know, would expect the same to happen into 2026.
In 2025 continued to be excellent. Um that said that the county your combined ratio for overall comp business in 25, um, you know, was a few points higher than last year, and I've been kind of, uh, you know,
Carl Lindner: You know, for the most part, Greg, you know, our loss trends, you know, our loss ratio trends continue to be pretty benign, and that, you know, positive trends around frequency, severity, you know, not being abnormal. So in our workers' comp business, we-- our overall results for workers' comp, both on a calendar year and an accident year basis in 2025, continue to be excellent. That said, the calendar year combined ratio for overall comp business in 2025, you know, was a few points higher than last year, and I've been kind of, you know, pointing that out, you know, probably every quarter. And we probably, you know, would expect the same to happen into 2026.
Speaker #6: Part, Greg, our loss trends or loss ratio trends continue to be pretty benign in that. Positive trends around frequency, severity, not being abnormal. So our workers' comp business, our overall results for workers' comp, both on account year-end and accident year basis in 2025, continue to be excellent.
Pointing that out. Uh, you know, probably every quarter, um, you know, we probably, you know, would expect the same to happen, uh, into 26. But the good news the good news is is, um, you know, the results continue to be excellent. We would, uh, expect, you know, workers comp to continue to be a very profitable line. Um,
Speaker #6: That said, the account of year combined ratio for overall comp business in '25 — it was a few points higher than last year, and I've been kind of pointing that out probably every quarter.
Uh, California comp would be the exception uh California. As you know, the industry probably has a combined ratio and excess of 120. Um,
Speaker #6: And we probably would expect the same to happen into '26. The good news is the results continue to be excellent. We would expect workers' comp to continue to be a very profitable line.
Carl Lindner: But the good news, the good news is, you know, the results continue to be excellent. We would expect, you know, workers' comp to continue to be a very profitable line. California comp would be the exception. California, as you know, the industry probably has a combined ratio in excess of 120. Probably the there was an approval of a rate increase in September, you know, of about 8.7%, kind of a guideline rate that was put out there. When you look at pricing, you know, in California, you know, we're getting probably a 10%—healthy 10% price increase in Q4. So, seems like there's-...
Carl Lindner: But the good news, the good news is, you know, the results continue to be excellent. We would expect, you know, workers' comp to continue to be a very profitable line. California comp would be the exception. California, as you know, the industry probably has a combined ratio in excess of 120. Probably the there was an approval of a rate increase in September, you know, of about 8.7%, kind of a guideline rate that was put out there. When you look at pricing, you know, in California, you know, we're getting probably a 10%—healthy 10% price increase in Q4. So, seems like there's-...
Probably the the, uh, there was an approval of a a rate increase in uh, in September, you know, of about 8.7% kind of a, a guideline uh, rate that was put out there. Um, when you look at uh, pricing uh, you know, in in California, um, you know, we're getting um,
Speaker #6: California comp would be the exception. California's—as you know—the industry probably has a combined ratio in excess of 120. There was an approval of a rate increase in September of about 8.7%, kind of a guideline rate.
Speaker #6: There, when you look, that was put out at pricing in California, we're getting probably a healthy 10% price increase in the fourth quarter.
Speaker #6: So, seems like there’s beginning to be a bit more of a backbone in the competitive environment in California, which I’m happy to see. And happy to see us get some rate.
Carl Lindner: Beginning to be a bit more of a backbone, you know, in the competitive environment in California, which I'm happy to see, and happy to see us, you know, get some, get some rate. Our combined ratio isn't 120 plus, but, you know, we're unhappy with it, and, you know, working hard to, to improve it, in that. So California is kind of the, probably the one state that would be, the exception. The cumulative trauma, sure, that impacts, you know, Republic, our California comp subsidiary. That's, I think, you know, we've already-- we've been taking into account in our loss reserve picks, you know, that aspect for years. That's not something that's, a, a big surprise, you know, to us. So I think we've already been taking that into, account.
Carl Lindner: Beginning to be a bit more of a backbone, you know, in the competitive environment in California, which I'm happy to see, and happy to see us, you know, get some, get some rate. Our combined ratio isn't 120 plus, but, you know, we're unhappy with it, and, you know, working hard to, to improve it, in that. So California is kind of the, probably the one state that would be, the exception. The cumulative trauma, sure, that impacts, you know, Republic, our California comp subsidiary. That's, I think, you know, we've already-- we've been taking into account in our loss reserve picks, you know, that aspect for years. That's not something that's, a, a big surprise, you know, to us. So I think we've already been taking that into, account.
Probably a a 10% healthy, 10% price, increase in the fourth quarter. So, uh, seems like there's beginning to be a bit more of a backbone, you know, in the competitive environment California, which I'm happy to see, um, and happy to see us, you know, get some, get some rate. Uh, our combined ratio isn't 120, plus, but um, you know, we're unhappy with it and, uh, you know, working hard to, to improve it. Uh, and that so California is kind of the probably the 1 state that would be, uh, the exception, um, the cumulative trauma. Uh, sure, that impacts, uh, you know, Republic or California comps subsidiary. Um, that's I think, you know, we've already we've been taking into account in our loss, Reserve picks, you know that aspect for years. Um that's not something that's uh a big surprise uh you know to us. So I
Speaker #6: Our combined ratio isn't 120-plus, but we're unhappy with it and working hard to improve it. So California is kind of probably the one state that would be the exception.
Speaker #6: The cumulative trauma, sure, that impacts Republic or California comp subsidiary. That's, I think, we've already we've been taking into account in our loss reserve picks that aspect for years.
Think we've already been taking that into uh uh account. Um, our workers comp last year, our workers comp business overall, grew about 1%. Um I think uh as when you look at overall pricing Trends I think I mentioned in comp you know we actually had a modest price increase in the fourth quarter. I think uh from a growth standpoint I would think we would probably uh you know. See you know some growth
Speaker #6: That's not something that's a big surprise. To us. So I think we've already been taking that into account. Our workers' comp last year, our workers' comp business overall grew about 1%.
uh, this year, maybe, you know, 3 to 5% overall growth or something and workers comp, uh, which is, which is a positive
I hope that gives you some insight, uh, into your your questions.
Carl Lindner: Our workers' comp. Last year, our workers' comp business overall grew about 1%. I think, as when you look at overall pricing trends, I think I mentioned in comp, you know, we actually had a modest price increase in Q4. I think, from a growth standpoint, I would think we would probably, you know, see, you know, some growth this year, maybe, you know, 3% to 5% overall growth or something in workers' comp, which is, which is a positive. I hope that gives you some insight into your, your questions.
Carl Lindner: Our workers' comp. Last year, our workers' comp business overall grew about 1%. I think, as when you look at overall pricing trends, I think I mentioned in comp, you know, we actually had a modest price increase in Q4. I think, from a growth standpoint, I would think we would probably, you know, see, you know, some growth this year, maybe, you know, 3% to 5% overall growth or something in workers' comp, which is, which is a positive. I hope that gives you some insight into your, your questions.
Speaker #6: I think as you look at overall pricing trends— and I think I mentioned in comp— we actually had a modest price increase in the fourth quarter.
Speaker #6: I think from a growth standpoint, we would probably see some growth this year—maybe 3% to 5% overall growth or something in workers' comp.
Yeah. How does that on that same subject, just just decides that California workers comp focused business is less than 200 million dollars in net written premiums for the year. Yes, less than 15%. It's not a real big portion of our workers comp business that are in all over all business, but it, but we do React to what we're seeing in the environment overall both in setting our Reserve picks and then also more importantly informing us what we need to do from rate increases leading to things like the near 10% in the fourth quarter.
Speaker #6: Which is a positive. I hope that gives you some insight into your questions.
Got it. Thanks for that detail. Um, hey uh, during your comments, you also highlighted startup businesses
Speaker #4: Yeah, I'll just add on that same subject, just to size that California workers' comp-focused business is less than $200 million in net written premiums for the...
Gregory Peters: Yeah.
Gregory Peters: Yeah.
Brian Hertzman: I'll just add, on that same subject, just the size that California workers' comp-focused business is less than $200 million in net written premiums for the year.
Brian Hertzman: I'll just add, on that same subject, just the size that California workers' comp-focused business is less than $200 million in net written premiums for the year.
um,
Speaker #4: year. So Yes, less than 15%. it's not a real it's not a real big portion of our workers' comp business that will enter our overall business, but we do react to what we're seeing in the environment overall, both in setting our reserve picks and then also more importantly, informing us what we need to do from rate increases, leading to things like the near 10% in the fourth quarter.
Carl Lindner: Yes, less than 15%.
Carl Lindner: Yes, less than 15%.
Brian Hertzman: So it's not a real, it's not a real big portion of our workers' comp business, let alone our overall business. But it, but we do react to what we're seeing in the environment overall, both in setting our reserve picks and then also, more importantly, informing us what we need to do from rate increases, leading to things like the near 10% in Q4.
Brian Hertzman: So it's not a real, it's not a real big portion of our workers' comp business, let alone our overall business. But it, but we do react to what we're seeing in the environment overall, both in setting our reserve picks and then also, more importantly, informing us what we need to do from rate increases, leading to things like the near 10% in Q4.
And um maybe you could just spend a minute and just share with us some information more information about what's behind the startup businesses and you know sort of their expectation. You know especially considering I think we're you know, admittedly the broader PC market is you know, right environment seems to be softening up. So just curious about the areas of the market where you think there's opportunity.
Speaker #5: Got it. Thanks for that detail. Hey, during your comments, you also highlighted startup businesses. And maybe if we just spend a minute and just share with us some information, more information about what’s behind the startup businesses and sort of your expectation.
Gregory Peters: Got it. Thanks for that detail. Hey, during your comments, you also highlighted startup businesses. Maybe if you'd just spend a minute and just share with us some information, more information about what's behind the startup businesses and, you know, sort of your expectation, you know, especially considering, I think we're, you know, admittedly, the broader PC market is, you know, rate environment seems to be softening up. So just curious about the areas of the market where you think there's opportunity.
Gregory Peters: Got it. Thanks for that detail. Hey, during your comments, you also highlighted startup businesses. Maybe if you'd just spend a minute and just share with us some information, more information about what's behind the startup businesses and, you know, sort of your expectation, you know, especially considering, I think we're, you know, admittedly, the broader PC market is, you know, rate environment seems to be softening up. So just curious about the areas of the market where you think there's opportunity.
yeah, you know, we've uh, every year we, um, we make investments and we start out businesses and that and um, you know, uh,
Speaker #5: Especially considering—I think, admittedly, the broader PC market—the rate environment seems to be softening up. So just curious about the areas of the market where you think there's opportunity.
I think after, uh, you know, making some Investments and, and grinding through the, the early startups and a few things. So, we're beginning to see, um, you know, some some success and progress, uh, things like specialty construction. Um, you know, we have, uh,
Speaker #6: Yeah, we've—every year, we make investments and we start up businesses in that. And I think after making some investments and grinding through the early startups and a few things, we're beginning to see some success and progress, things like specialty construction.
Carl Lindner: Yeah, you know, we've every year we make investments, and we start up businesses in that. And, you know, I think after, you know, making some investments and, and grinding through the early startups and a few things, that we're beginning to see, you know, some, some success and progress, in things like Specialty Construction. You know, we have, you know, E&S binding business. You know, we would expect to see, some more premium, you know, in, in that area. So areas, areas like that, we have four or five different startups that I think, you know, will begin to, you know, show, more progress, in that.
Carl Lindner: Yeah, you know, we've every year we make investments, and we start up businesses in that. And, you know, I think after, you know, making some investments and, and grinding through the early startups and a few things, that we're beginning to see, you know, some, some success and progress, in things like Specialty Construction. You know, we have, you know, E&S binding business. You know, we would expect to see, some more premium, you know, in, in that area. So areas, areas like that, we have four or five different startups that I think, you know, will begin to, you know, show, more progress, in that.
You know, uh, ens binding business. Uh, you know, we would expect to see. Um, some more premium, uh, you know, in in that area so areas areas like that we have 4 or 5 different startups that I think, uh, you know, will begin to. Um,
and,
That and the embedded Solutions area. I think is an area. Um a new area for us uh that we're excited about and we think will bear some fruit this year.
Speaker #6: We have E&S binding business. We would expect to see some more premium in that area, so areas like that. We have four or five different startups that I think will begin to show more progress in that.
Um, thank you. My my final question and I know you've commented on this before, but um, the crop business, is there any spillover and to the first half of 26 from the results of the 25-year crop year?
Yeah. You know, there, there are always a space to uh, area coverage results for a reinsurance year or some Citrus and you know, that type of thing. Um,
Speaker #6: And the embedded solutions area, I think, is a new area for us that we're excited about, and we think will bear some fruit this year.
Carl Lindner: The Embedded Solutions area, I think, is an area, a new area for us, that we're excited about, and we think will bear some fruit this year.
Carl Lindner: The Embedded Solutions area, I think, is an area, a new area for us, that we're excited about, and we think will bear some fruit this year.
Gregory Peters: Thank you. My final question, and I know you've commented on this before, but the crop business, is there any spillover into the first half of 2026 from the results of the 2025 year crop year?
Speaker #5: Thank you. My final question, and I know you've commented on this before, but the crop business— is there any spillover into the first half of '26 from the results of the '25 crop year?
Gregory Peters: Thank you. My final question, and I know you've commented on this before, but the crop business, is there any spillover into the first half of 2026 from the results of the 2025 year crop year?
Speaker #6: Yeah, there always is, based off of area coverage results for the reinsurance year or some citrus and that type of thing. We obviously had a very strong year, and so usually there's always a true-up in the first quarter.
Carl Lindner: Yeah, you know, there always is, based off of area coverage results for a reinsurance year or some citrus and, you know, that type of thing. We obviously had a very strong year and, you know, so usually there's always a true up in Q1, and I think we'd be, you know, positive that there will probably be some positive, you know, true up as the crop reinsurance year. And then, as you know, we're kind of in the February discovery period for commodity prices and that, and I mean, so far, you know, as it relates to spring discovery, if the prices kind of remain where they've been, it looks like, you know, corn is discovery, futures price down maybe 3%, soybeans up 2%.
Carl Lindner: Yeah, you know, there always is, based off of area coverage results for a reinsurance year or some citrus and, you know, that type of thing. We obviously had a very strong year and, you know, so usually there's always a true up in Q1, and I think we'd be, you know, positive that there will probably be some positive, you know, true up as the crop reinsurance year. And then, as you know, we're kind of in the February discovery period for commodity prices and that, and I mean, so far, you know, as it relates to spring discovery, if the prices kind of remain where they've been, it looks like, you know, corn is discovery, futures price down maybe 3%, soybeans up 2%.
We obviously had a, we had a very strong year and um, you know, so usually there's always a true up in the first quarter and I think we'd be, you know, positive that uh there are probably be some positive, you know, true up um as the uh the crop reinsurance here and then uh as you know, we're kind of in the February uh Discovery period for commodity prices and that and I mean, so far um you know, as it relates to uh spring Discovery if if the prices kind of remain kind of where they where they've been it looks like you know corn is Discovery. Futures price down. Maybe 3% soybeans up 2%.
Speaker #6: And I think we'd be positive that there will probably be some positive true up. As the crop reinsurance year and then as you know, we're kind of in the February discovery period for commodity prices in that.
But that would mean good things as far as stability on the premium base. Um, I think, uh, you know, if we have that kind of a scenario, I think we'd be looking at uh, seeing the crop business. Maybe even grow a little bit. Um, assuming spring Discovery prices kind of stay in the range that they they are right now.
Thank you very much for the answers.
Speaker #6: And I mean, so far, as it relates to spring discovery, if the prices kind of remain where they've been, it looks like corn's discovery futures price is down maybe 3%, soybeans up 2%.
Thank you. 1 moment for our next question.
Our next question comes from the line. I'm Michael zaremski from BMO
Speaker #6: But that would mean good things as far as stability on the premium base. I think if we have that kind of a scenario, I think we'd be looking at seeing the crop business maybe even grow a little bit, assuming spring discovery prices kind of stay in the range that they are right.
Carl Lindner: But that would mean good things as far as stability on the premium base. I think, you know, if we have that kind of a scenario, I think, we'd be looking at, seeing the crop business maybe even grow a little bit, assuming spring discovery prices kind of stay in the range that they are right now.
Carl Lindner: But that would mean good things as far as stability on the premium base. I think, you know, if we have that kind of a scenario, I think, we'd be looking at, seeing the crop business maybe even grow a little bit, assuming spring discovery prices kind of stay in the range that they are right now.
Speaker #6: now. Thank you very much for the
Hey, it's uh, Dan on for Mike. My, uh, my first 1 just sticking with the property and transportation segment. Um so is the is the current accent your improvement, this quarter, just driven by favorable crop, or what are you seeing in the other businesses in in that segment of understanding? Maybe those are performing a little bit better too. Just trying to get a a better sense of the runner rate there. Thanks.
Gregory Peters: Thank you very much for the answers.
Gregory Peters: Thank you very much for the answers.
Speaker #7: Thank answers. you. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Michael Zaremsky from
Operator: Thank you. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Michael Zaremski from BMO.
Operator: Thank you. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Michael Zaremski from BMO.
Speaker #7: BMO. Hey, it's Dan on for—
[Analyst] (BMO): Hey, it's Dan, on for Mike. My first one, just sticking with the Property and Transportation segment. So is the current accident year improvement this quarter just driven by favorable crop, or what are you seeing in the other businesses in that segment? I understand maybe those are performing a little bit better too. Just trying to get a better sense of the run rate there. Thanks.
Dan Stroller: Hey, it's Dan, on for Mike. My first one, just sticking with the Property and Transportation segment. So is the current accident year improvement this quarter just driven by favorable crop, or what are you seeing in the other businesses in that segment? I understand maybe those are performing a little bit better too. Just trying to get a better sense of the run rate there. Thanks.
Speaker #8: Mike. My first one just sticking with the property and transportation segment. So is the current accident year improvement this quarter just driven by favorable crop or what are you seeing in the other businesses in that segment?
Sure. So, so definitely the Big Driver of the lower, uh, loss ratio and as well as the lower expense ratio and property and transportation is coming from the very strong crop results. Uh, the rest of the business is in that segment have have performed very well and are pretty stable. I think when, when you, uh, get to looking at our annual statements that we file, I
Speaker #8: I understand maybe those are performing a little bit better, too. Just trying to get a better sense of the run rate there. Thanks.
Speaker #4: Sure. So definitely the big driver of the lower loss ratio as well as the lower expense ratio in property and transportation is coming from the very strong crop results.
Brian Hertzman: Sure. So definitely the big driver of the lower loss ratio, as well as the lower expense ratio in Property and Transportation, is coming from the very strong Crop results. The rest of the businesses in that segment have performed very well and are pretty stable. I think when you get to looking at our annual statements that we file, I think you'll see that we continue to be cautious in our loss picks on Commercial Auto Liability as well, for the same reasons we talked about in casualty. But overall, very strong results across the whole segment. And even in Commercial Auto Liability, where I mentioned that we're being cautious on the loss picks, we still have a small underwriting profit for the year, overall, for overall Commercial Auto.
Brian Hertzman: Sure. So definitely the big driver of the lower loss ratio, as well as the lower expense ratio in Property and Transportation, is coming from the very strong Crop results. The rest of the businesses in that segment have performed very well and are pretty stable. I think when you get to looking at our annual statements that we file, I think you'll see that we continue to be cautious in our loss picks on Commercial Auto Liability as well, for the same reasons we talked about in casualty. But overall, very strong results across the whole segment. And even in Commercial Auto Liability, where I mentioned that we're being cautious on the loss picks, we still have a small underwriting profit for the year, overall, for overall Commercial Auto.
I think you'll see that we continue to be cautious in our lost, picks on Commercial, Auto liability, as well, for the same reasons we talked about in casualty, um, but, but overall, uh, very, very strong results across the whole segment and even in commercial Auto liability, where we, where where I mentioned that we're being cautious on the loss picks, we still have an a small underwriting profit for the year.
overall, for overall Commercial Auto,
Speaker #4: The rest of the businesses in that segment have performed very well and are pretty stable. I think when you get to looking at our annual statements that we file I think you'll see that we continue to be cautious in our loss picks on commercial auto liability as well for the same reasons we talked about in casualty.
So so um, so I think you'll, I think that if you're trying to sort of normalize things, I think the the the Big Driver of the the strong is the the above average crop year versus 2024 being more of an average crop year and then looking to 2026 as Carl mentioned. Our models would would would build in an average crop year versus the very strong crop year this year.
Speaker #4: But overall, very, very strong results across the whole segment, and even in commercial auto liability where I mentioned that we're being cautious on the loss picks, we still have a small underwriting profit for the year overall for commercial auto.
Speaker #4: So, I think that if you're trying to sort of normalize things, the big driver of the strong is the above-average crop year versus 2024 being more of an average crop year, and then looking to 2026, as Carl mentioned, our models would build in an average crop year versus the very strong crop year this year.
Brian Hertzman: So, I think that if you're trying to sort of normalize things, I think the big driver of the strong is the above average crop year versus 2024 being more of an average crop year. And then looking to 2026, as Carl mentioned, our models would build in an average crop year versus the very strong crop year this year.
Brian Hertzman: So, I think that if you're trying to sort of normalize things, I think the big driver of the strong is the above average crop year versus 2024 being more of an average crop year. And then looking to 2026, as Carl mentioned, our models would build in an average crop year versus the very strong crop year this year.
Okay, that that's helpful. Thanks and Switching gears maybe to Specialty financial and specifically on the the lender Place business there. Just curious about, you know what, your the inflection and pricing a little bit. This uh sequentially from to plus 1 from from minus 2 in the prior quarter and then, you know, bigger picture just um, with increased political focus on, you know, uh, personalized profitability is there any concern about that business? Just from a political lens, on the, on the Wonder place?
Speaker #8: Okay, that's helpful, thanks. Switching gears maybe to Specialty Financial, and specifically on the lender-placed business there—just curious about what drove the inflection in pricing a little bit sequentially, from the plus one to minus two in the prior quarter.
[Analyst] (BMO): Okay. That's, that's helpful. Thanks. Then switching gears maybe to Specialty Financial, and specifically on the, the Lender-Placed business there. Just curious about, you know, what drove the inflection in pricing a little bit this sequentially from 2 to +1, from -2 in the prior quarter. And then, you know, bigger picture just with increased political focus on, you know, personalized profitability, is there any concern about that business, just from a political lens on the, on the Lender-Placed? Thanks.
Dan Stroller: Okay. That's, that's helpful. Thanks. Then switching gears maybe to Specialty Financial, and specifically on the, the Lender-Placed business there. Just curious about, you know, what drove the inflection in pricing a little bit this sequentially from 2 to +1, from -2 in the prior quarter. And then, you know, bigger picture just with increased political focus on, you know, personalized profitability, is there any concern about that business, just from a political lens on the, on the Lender-Placed? Thanks.
Thanks. No I don't think we have concerns on the political front. Um I think the farm bill actually got extended into September 2026. It's and it it's supported by both sides. You know, both Republicans and Democrats. Uh generally
and um,
and that, um,
you know, the as far as the pricing goes,
um,
Speaker #8: And then, bigger picture, just with increased political focus on personalized profitability, is there any concern about that business just from a political lens on the lender?
as far as pricing goes, you know, these are are customers, you know, are large large groupings of uh properties in that in our um,
Carl Lindner: No, I don't think we have concerns on the political front. I think the farm bill actually got extended into September 2026. It's supported by both sides, you know, both Republicans and Democrats, generally in that. You know, as far as the pricing goes, as far as pricing goes, you know, these, our customers, you know, are large groupings of properties in that, in our. And so it kind of depends quarter by quarter, based off of, say, how, you know, what a client might have in the way of coastal property, and that may require a greater price, you know, a greater price, versus an account that doesn't. So it, you know, you can always expect some lumpiness around pricing. That said, this business is extremely profitable.
Carl Lindner: No, I don't think we have concerns on the political front. I think the farm bill actually got extended into September 2026. It's supported by both sides, you know, both Republicans and Democrats, generally in that. You know, as far as the pricing goes, as far as pricing goes, you know, these, our customers, you know, are large groupings of properties in that, in our. And so it kind of depends quarter by quarter, based off of, say, how, you know, what a client might have in the way of coastal property, and that may require a greater price, you know, a greater price, versus an account that doesn't. So it, you know, you can always expect some lumpiness around pricing. That said, this business is extremely profitable.
Speaker #6: I have concerns on the political front. I think the farm bill actually got extended into September 2026, and it's supported by both sides—both Republicans and Democrats.
based off of uh say how, you know what a
Speaker #6: Generally, in that. As far as the pricing goes, as far as pricing goes, these are customers are large groupings of properties in that and are and so it kind of depends quarter by quarter based off of, say, what a client might have in the way of coastal property.
what a client might have in a way a coastal property and that may require a greater price, you know, a greater price, uh, versus an account that doesn't so it, you know, you can always expect some lumpiness, uh, around pricing that said, this business is extremely, uh, profitable and, uh,
Speaker #6: And that may require greater price versus an account that doesn't. So you can always expect some lumpiness around pricing. That said, this business is extremely profitable.
You know, I I think that, uh, rates of plateaued, um, I think there's still is, um, an effort to continue to to move, uh, the best. Uh, the biggest part of the business, uh, to ensuring on a replacement cost value versus unpaid Mortgage Balance. So I think that continues to be, um, a positive, uh, for this business. Um,
you know, we we have, um,
Speaker #6: And I think that rates have plateaued. I think there still is an effort to continue to move the best the biggest part of the business to insuring on a replacement cost value versus unpaid mortgage balance.
Carl Lindner: You know, I think that rates have plateaued. I think there still is an effort to continue to move the biggest part of the business to insuring on a replacement cost value versus unpaid mortgage balance. So I think that continues to be a positive for this business. You know, yeah, we did, I think, as I mentioned in the Q2 of last year, we did make a decision to cede more of the coastal exposed property business, which did have some impact, you know, mainly towards the last half of the year. I think this year, we would expect, you know, kind of low single digit growth in this business, all things considered.
Carl Lindner: You know, I think that rates have plateaued. I think there still is an effort to continue to move the biggest part of the business to insuring on a replacement cost value versus unpaid mortgage balance. So I think that continues to be a positive for this business. You know, yeah, we did, I think, as I mentioned in the Q2 of last year, we did make a decision to cede more of the coastal exposed property business, which did have some impact, you know, mainly towards the last half of the year. I think this year, we would expect, you know, kind of low single digit growth in this business, all things considered.
You know, we did, I think as I mentioned in the second quarter of last year, we did make a decision to cede more of the coastal exposed property business, which did have some impact. Um, you know, mainly towards the West half of the year. Um, I think in I think this year we would expect, uh, you know, kind of low single digit growth uh, in this business. Uh, All Things Considered
Speaker #6: So, I think that continues to be a positive for this business. We have—we did, I think, as I mentioned in the second quarter of last year—we did make a decision to cede more of the coastal-exposed property business, which did have some impact, mainly towards the last half of the year.
1 moment for our next question.
Our next question comes from the line of Paul gnome from Piper Sandler.
Hello, thanks for the call.
I was hoping you could give us a little bit more uh color about some of the social inflation uh related businesses that you um
Speaker #6: I think this year, we would expect kind of low single-digit growth in this business, all things considered.
Re um, in the last year or so, uh, it sounds like those businesses are are maybe stabilized. Are you in a position where you can now grow those?
Businesses or are they just sort of, you know, sort of stabilized. Um, so maybe you know,
Give the thoughts on that. And, and whether those businesses, uh,
Speaker #7: One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Paul Newsome from Piper.
Operator: One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Paul Newsome from Piper Sandler.
Operator: One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Paul Newsome from Piper Sandler.
They take a little longer before they go back to it a group of potential.
Speaker #7: Sandler. Hello.
John Newsome: Hello, thanks for the call. I was hoping you could give us a little bit more color about some of the social inflation related businesses that you were remediating in the last year or so. It sounds like those businesses are maybe stabilized. Are you in a position where you can now grow those businesses, or are they just sort of, you know, stabilized? So maybe, you know, what are the thoughts on that and whether those businesses may take a little longer before they go back to a growth potential?
Paul Newsome: Hello, thanks for the call. I was hoping you could give us a little bit more color about some of the social inflation related businesses that you were remediating in the last year or so. It sounds like those businesses are maybe stabilized. Are you in a position where you can now grow those businesses, or are they just sort of, you know, stabilized? So maybe, you know, what are the thoughts on that and whether those businesses may take a little longer before they go back to a growth potential?
Speaker #1: Thanks for the call. I was hoping you could give us a little bit more color about some of the social inflation-related businesses that you were remediating.
Speaker #1: In the last year or so, it sounds like those businesses are maybe stabilized. Are you in a position where you can now grow those businesses or are they just sort of stabilized?
Speaker #1: So maybe a little bit of thoughts on that and whether those businesses may take a little longer before they go back to a growth potential.
Yeah. Um, I think, as we've mentioned in the past that, um, you know, we feel that, um, you know, we've kind of worked through a cycle of, um, corrective steps, uh, in our nonprofit business, um, and in our excess liability business, you know, we restructuring, uh, to lower average limits and uh, uh, etc, etc, as well as, as price. Um, I think have you noticed in the third quarter, our main, in the fourth quarter, um specialty
Speaker #4: Yeah, I think, as we've mentioned in the past, that we feel we've kind of worked through a cycle of corrective steps in our nonprofit business and in our excess liability business.
Carl Lindner: Yeah. I think, as we've mentioned in the past, that, you know, we feel that, you know, we've kind of worked through a cycle of corrective steps in our nonprofit business and in our excess liability business. You know, restructuring to lower average limits and et cetera, et cetera, as well as pricing. I think if you notice in Q3, or I mean, in Q4, specialty casualty grew. You know, we had low single-digit growth in that quarter, which is a positive. And I think when you look at, say, the excess liability business overall, it grew overall.
Carl Lindner: Yeah. I think, as we've mentioned in the past, that, you know, we feel that, you know, we've kind of worked through a cycle of corrective steps in our nonprofit business and in our excess liability business. You know, restructuring to lower average limits and et cetera, et cetera, as well as pricing. I think if you notice in Q3, or I mean, in Q4, specialty casualty grew. You know, we had low single-digit growth in that quarter, which is a positive. And I think when you look at, say, the excess liability business overall, it grew overall.
A casualty grew, you know, we had low single-digit growth uh, in that quarter, uh, which is a positive. And I think, uh, when you look at say the excess liability, uh, business overall, uh, it grew for it, grew overall. So, I think that, um, points towards, uh, this year, I think an opportunity, um, you know, to see, uh,
Speaker #4: Restructuring to lower average limits and etc., etc., as well as price. I think if you notice in the third quarter—I mean, in the fourth quarter, specialty casualty grew.
Speaker #4: We had low single-digit growth in that quarter. Which is a positive. And I think when you look at, say, the excess liability business overall, it grew for overall.
You know, some mid single-digit growth potentially in both, uh, excess liability or nonprofit business. Um, uh, and that so I think we would see again, as I mentioned before those businesses returning, uh, and having, uh, some growth opportunities, uh, and and, uh, specialty casually, uh, in general.
Speaker #4: So, I think that points towards this year. I think there's an opportunity to see some mid-single-digit growth, potentially in both excess liability or nonprofit business, and that.
Carl Lindner: So I think that points towards this year, I think, an opportunity, you know, to see, you know, some mid-single digit growth potentially in both excess liability or nonprofit business, and that. So I think we would see, again, as I mentioned before, those businesses returning and having some growth opportunities, and specialty casualty in general.
Carl Lindner: So I think that points towards this year, I think, an opportunity, you know, to see, you know, some mid-single digit growth potentially in both excess liability or nonprofit business, and that. So I think we would see, again, as I mentioned before, those businesses returning and having some growth opportunities, and specialty casualty in general.
Speaker #4: So I think we would see, again, as I mentioned before, those businesses returning and having some growth opportunities. And specialty casualty in
Makes sense. Um, I wanted to ask a little bit of an extra question on the um, alternative Investment Portfolio. Um, you know, you're obviously hoping for or expecting a, a higher return this next year, um, but maybe not quite as high as it's historically. Done. Are there, you know, certain maybe macroeconomic things, or particular things about the portfolio. That is an outsider. We should be looking towards that would signal, um, you know, that extra couple of percent back to, to normal.
Speaker #4: general. That makes
John Newsome: Makes sense. I wanted to ask a little bit of an extra question on the alternative investment portfolio. You know, you're obviously hoping for or expecting a higher return this next year, but maybe not quite as high as it's historically done. Are there, you know, certain maybe macroeconomic things or particular things about the portfolio that as an outsider, we should be looking towards that would signal, you know, that extra couple of percent back to normal?
Paul Newsome: Makes sense. I wanted to ask a little bit of an extra question on the alternative investment portfolio. You know, you're obviously hoping for or expecting a higher return this next year, but maybe not quite as high as it's historically done. Are there, you know, certain maybe macroeconomic things or particular things about the portfolio that as an outsider, we should be looking towards that would signal, you know, that extra couple of percent back to normal?
Speaker #1: Makes sense. I wanted to ask a little bit of an extra question on the alternative investment portfolio. You're obviously hoping for, or expecting, a higher return this next year.
Paul, this is Craig um because I think you know around 50% of the alternative portfolios in multifamily.
And uh there has been a uh big over Supply. The last couple of years of new multi-family. Properties that have been have been delivered.
Speaker #1: But maybe not quite as high as it's historically done. Are there certain maybe macroeconomic things or particular things about the portfolio that is an outsider we should be looking towards that would signal that extra couple of percent back to
Speaker #1: But maybe not quite as high as it's historically done. Are there certain maybe macroeconomic things or particular things about the portfolio that is an outsider we should be looking towards that would signal that extra couple of percent back to normal?
And, uh, the absorption rate is actually very strong.
Speaker #2: Yeah. Paul, this is Craig. As I think you know, around 50% of the alternative portfolio is in multifamily. And there has been a big oversupply the last couple of years of new multifamily properties that have been delivered.
Craig Lindner: Yeah, Paul, this is Craig. As I think you know, around 50% of the alternative portfolio is in multifamily. There has been a big oversupply the last couple of years of new multifamily properties that have been delivered. The absorption rate is actually very strong, but we think it's probably gonna take another couple of quarters to get back to a more normal environment. Historically, even with the poor returns that, you know, in the recent past, over the last five years, we've still earned between 10% and 11% total return on our multifamily investments, and good years significantly above that.
Craig Lindner: Yeah, Paul, this is Craig. As I think you know, around 50% of the alternative portfolio is in multifamily. There has been a big oversupply the last couple of years of new multifamily properties that have been delivered. The absorption rate is actually very strong, but we think it's probably gonna take another couple of quarters to get back to a more normal environment. Historically, even with the poor returns that, you know, in the recent past, over the last five years, we've still earned between 10% and 11% total return on our multifamily investments, and good years significantly above that.
Speaker #2: And the absorption rate is actually very strong. But we think it's probably going to take another couple of quarters to get back to a more normal environment.
Total return on, uh, our multifamily investments and and good years significantly above that. So, uh to get back to the historical, uh, levels of Returns on the old trades, it is going to, uh, to require the multifamily properties to, uh, have have a better, uh, rate environment. Uh, which is as I said, in the conference call uh, script, uh, we're seeing
Speaker #2: Historically, even with the poor returns, in the recent past—over the last five years—we've still earned between 10 and 11 percent total return on our multifamily investments.
Clearly a bottoming. Um, and we're seeing some favorable signs in terms of absorption and, uh, new starts at a 10 or 12 year low.
um, so we think sometime in the last half of the year, we're going to see a better environment and
Speaker #2: And good years significantly above that. So, to get back to the historical levels of returns on the alternatives, it is going to require the multifamily properties to have a better rate environment, which, as I said in the conference call script, we're seeing clearly a bottoming, and we're seeing some favorable signs in terms of absorption and new starts at a 10- or 12-year low.
Craig Lindner: So, to get back to the historical levels of returns on the alternatives, it is going to require the multifamily properties to have a better rate environment, which, as I said in the conference call script, we're seeing clearly a bottoming, and we're seeing some favorable signs in terms of absorption and new starts at a 10 or 12-year low. So we think sometime in the last half of the year, we're gonna see a better environment than 2027, and going forward for, you know, some number of years, we think it's gonna be a pretty favorable environment for multifamily. But, that, that's what is gonna be required to get back to our historical return levels on alternatives.
Craig Lindner: So, to get back to the historical levels of returns on the alternatives, it is going to require the multifamily properties to have a better rate environment, which, as I said in the conference call script, we're seeing clearly a bottoming, and we're seeing some favorable signs in terms of absorption and new starts at a 10 or 12-year low. So we think sometime in the last half of the year, we're gonna see a better environment than 2027, and going forward for, you know, some number of years, we think it's gonna be a pretty favorable environment for multifamily. But, that, that's what is gonna be required to get back to our historical return levels on alternatives.
Uh than 2027 and and going forward for uh, you know, some number of years. We think it's going to be a pretty favorable environment for multi-family, but that that's what is going to be required to get back to our historical return levels on alternatives.
so, um,
so, the group here is, you know,
On the question about lender Place property and the political uh exposure. I think I was talking about the crop is now the lender side
Speaker #2: So, we think sometime in the last half of the year we're going to see a better environment. And then, 2027 and going forward for some number of years, we think it's going to be a pretty favorable environment for multifamily.
Um, I think when you look at the regulation of that business, it's been more state-by-state uh and that but I don't see. Um I don't see lots of political risks with regards to lender Place property. Um
Speaker #2: But that's what is going to be required to get back to our historical return levels on alternatives.
You know, I think it's uh to the lenders. I think it's providing a service particularly uh
Speaker #4: So the group here has mentioned that, on the question about lender-placed property and the political exposure, I think I was talking about the crop as in the lender side.
John Newsome: So, um-
Paul Newsome: So, um-
Craig Lindner: Appreciate the insights.
Craig Lindner: Appreciate the insights.
Carl Lindner: So the group here is, you know, mentioning that, on the question about lender-placed property and the political exposure, I think I was talking about the crop as on the lender side. I think when you look at the regulation of that business, it's been more state by state, in that, but I don't see, I don't see lots of political risks with regards to, lender-placed property. You know, I think it's, to the lenders, I think it's providing a service, particularly, you know, when, a lot of the business is due to cancellation of a homeowner's insurer by a homeowner's insurer. So, you know, it really provides a healthy backstop to financial institutions, you know, to make sure that, there's coverage. So I don't see much political risk there.
Carl Lindner: So the group here is, you know, mentioning that, on the question about lender-placed property and the political exposure, I think I was talking about the crop as on the lender side. I think when you look at the regulation of that business, it's been more state by state, in that, but I don't see, I don't see lots of political risks with regards to, lender-placed property. You know, I think it's, to the lenders, I think it's providing a service, particularly, you know, when, a lot of the business is due to cancellation of a homeowner's insurer by a homeowner's insurer. So, you know, it really provides a healthy backstop to financial institutions, you know, to make sure that, there's coverage. So I don't see much political risk there.
You know, when uh, a lot of the business is due to cancellation of homeowners of a homeowners, uh, insurer by a homeowners insurers. So, you know, it really provides a healthy backs, stop to financial institutions, you know, to make sure that there's coverage. So I I don't see much political risk, their
Speaker #4: I think when you look at the regulation of that business, it's been more state by state, and that. But I don't see lots of political risk with regards to lender-placed property.
Wonderful, I'll take this.
Thank you. 1 moment for our next question.
Speaker #4: I think it's to the lenders. I think it's providing a service, particularly when a lot of the business is due to cancellation of homeowners' insurance by homeowners' insurer.
Our next question comes from the line of Myer Shields from KBW.
Hi good. Good morning. Um, this is for me.
My first question is on the premium growth.
Speaker #4: So it really provides a healthy backstop to financial institutions to make sure that there's coverage. So I don't see much political risk.
This is ten Assumption of 3 to 5%.
Speaker #4: there. Appreciate that.
Um, just curious, if you guys could elaborate on, what specific business lines are seeing the most favorable pricing getting into 2026.
John Newsome: Appreciate the help. Thanks, guys.
Paul Newsome: Appreciate the help. Thanks, guys.
Speaker #1: Thanks,
Speaker #1: guys. Thank you.
And what you see the greatest opportunities for profitable growth within your 3 to 5%.
Operator: Thank you. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Meyer Shields from KBW.
Operator: Thank you. One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Meyer Shields from KBW.
Speaker #7: One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Meyer Shields from
Premium growth on assumption.
Speaker #7: KBW. Hi.
Yeah, I think the good news is that at this point, um, you know, for
Craig Lindner: Hi, good morning. This is Jingon from here. My first question is on the premium growth. This is the assumption of 3 to 5%. Just curious if you guys could elaborate on which specific business lines are seeing the most favorable pricing getting into 2026, and what you see the greatest opportunities for profitable growth within your 3 to 5% premium growth assumption?
Craig Lindner: Hi, good morning. This is Jingon from here. My first question is on the premium growth. This is the assumption of 3 to 5%. Just curious if you guys could elaborate on which specific business lines are seeing the most favorable pricing getting into 2026, and what you see the greatest opportunities for profitable growth within your 3 to 5% premium growth assumption?
Speaker #8: Good morning. This is Gina from Meyer. My first question is on the premium growth. The business plan assumption is three to five percent. Just curious if you guys could elaborate on which specific business lines are seeing the most favorable pricing as we head into 2026.
uh, the vast majority of our businesses. Um, you know, we think that we have an opportunity, um, you know, for premium growth, uh, this year
um, I think in this also, when you look at the profitability and what, you know of uh
Speaker #8: And what you see the greatest opportunities for profitable growth within your three to five percent premium growth assumption?
Our businesses, uh, almost all of our businesses are really meeting or exceeding, the targeted returns, um, that we require. So, um, I think we, you know, we'd love to have as much opportunity as we can get, uh, you know, within pretty much all our businesses, uh, and that
Speaker #4: Yeah, I think the good news is that, at this point, for the vast majority of our businesses, we think that we have an opportunity for premium growth this year.
Carl Lindner: Yeah, I think the good news is that at this point, you know, for the vast majority of our businesses, you know, we think that we have an opportunity, you know, for premium growth this year. I think, and it's also, when you look at the profitability and what you know of our businesses, almost all of our businesses are really meeting or exceeding the targeted returns that we require. So, I think we, you know, we'd love to have as much opportunity as we can get, you know, within pretty much all of our businesses, in that.
Carl Lindner: Yeah, I think the good news is that at this point, you know, for the vast majority of our businesses, you know, we think that we have an opportunity, you know, for premium growth this year. I think, and it's also, when you look at the profitability and what you know of our businesses, almost all of our businesses are really meeting or exceeding the targeted returns that we require. So, I think we, you know, we'd love to have as much opportunity as we can get, you know, within pretty much all of our businesses, in that.
got it.
Thank you. Um my second question will be on the specialty Financial Group.
um,
You guys reported the client made a return premium?
Speaker #4: I think this also, when you look at the profitability of our businesses, almost all of our businesses are really meeting or exceeding the targeted returns that we require.
Due to the increase. Um, seating of coastal exposed property business in the financial institutions.
Just curious, if you can provide.
More color on the reinsurance strategy change.
Speaker #4: So I think we'd love to have as much opportunity as we can get within pretty much all of our businesses in that.
Made, um, there and with this level of sections is expected.
Um, going forward in 2026.
Speaker #8: Got it, thank you. My second question will be on the Specialty Financial Group. You guys reported the client and Meyer return premium. Due to the increased ceding of coastal-exposed property business in the Financial Institutions, just curious if you can provide more color on the reinsurance strategy change made there and whether this level of cession is expected going forward.
Craig Lindner: Got it. Thank you. My second question will be on the Specialty Financial group. You guys reported a decline in near return premium due to the increased ceding of coastal-exposed property business in the Financial Institutions. Just curious if you can provide more color on the reinsurance strategy change made there, and whether this level of cession is expected going forward in 2026.
Craig Lindner: Got it. Thank you. My second question will be on the Specialty Financial group. You guys reported a decline in near return premium due to the increased ceding of coastal-exposed property business in the Financial Institutions. Just curious if you can provide more color on the reinsurance strategy change made there, and whether this level of cession is expected going forward in 2026.
Yeah, we, you know, we started that in the second quarter 25. So, um, you know, that book would have, you know, rolled on a different reinsurance basis through, uh, the first half of this year.
Um,
If, if you're familiar with us, historically, you know, we're a company that's had a, um, relatively lower catastrophe, exposure than our peers. Uh and we've had a lower appetite right or wrong or otherwise for Coastal property. Uh pure earthquake risk.
Uh, etc. Etc. Um
Speaker #8: 2026. Yeah.
Carl Lindner: Yeah, we, you know, we started that in the second quarter of 2025, so, you know, that book would have, you know, rolled on a different reinsurance basis, through the first half of this year. If you're familiar with us historically, you know, we're a company that's had a relatively lower catastrophe exposure than our peers. And we've had a lower appetite, right or wrong or otherwise, for coastal property, pure earthquake risk, et cetera, et cetera. So, I think, you know, we carefully manage, FIS is probably the business that has our biggest property exposure. So you know, we very carefully manage that to what our, you know, the coastal exposures to what our overall company philosophy is. And...
Carl Lindner: Yeah, we, you know, we started that in the second quarter of 2025, so, you know, that book would have, you know, rolled on a different reinsurance basis, through the first half of this year. If you're familiar with us historically, you know, we're a company that's had a relatively lower catastrophe exposure than our peers. And we've had a lower appetite, right or wrong or otherwise, for coastal property, pure earthquake risk, et cetera, et cetera. So, I think, you know, we carefully manage, FIS is probably the business that has our biggest property exposure. So you know, we very carefully manage that to what our, you know, the coastal exposures to what our overall company philosophy is. And...
Speaker #4: We started that in the second quarter of '25. So that book would have rolled in a different reinsurance basis through the first half of this year.
Speaker #4: If you're familiar with us, historically, we're a company that's had a relatively lower catastrophe exposure than our peers. And we've had a lower appetite—right or wrong or otherwise—for coastal property, pure earthquake risk, etc., etc.
Manage FIS is, uh, probably the business that has our biggest property exposure. Uh, so, you know, we very carefully managed that to what our, you know, the coastal exposures to what our overall company Philosophy is. And, um, you know, when you look at our 1 and 250 or 1 of 1 in 500, um
You know uh, exposure to Capital Brian uh, 1 in 500 exposure, you know, today for, uh, hurricane. Yeah. It's it's less than 3%. So that compared to a mystery numbers that might be closer to double digit.
Speaker #4: So I think we carefully manage FIS as probably the business that has our biggest property exposure. So we very carefully manage that to what our coastal exposures, to what our overall company philosophy is.
Got it. Um, thank you for all the details.
Speaker #4: And when you look at our one and 250 or one and 500 exposure to capital Brian one and 500 exposure today for hurricane.
Carl Lindner: You know, when you look at our 1 in 250 or 1 in 500 exposure to capital, Brian, 1 in 500 exposure, you know, today for hurricane-
Carl Lindner: You know, when you look at our 1 in 250 or 1 in 500 exposure to capital, Brian, 1 in 500 exposure, you know, today for hurricane-
Thank you as a reminder, to ask a question. Please press star, 1, 1 1 on your telephone and wait for your name, to be announced to withdraw your question. Please press star, 1 1 1 again.
Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Anderson from Jeffries.
Speaker #1: Yeah. It's less than 3%. So compared to industry numbers that might be closer to double digits.
Brian Hertzman: Yeah, it's less, it's less than 3%, so that compared to industry numbers, that might be closer to double digit.
Brian Hertzman: Yeah, it's less, it's less than 3%, so that compared to industry numbers, that might be closer to double digit.
Hey, good morning. You had previously been doing some re-underwriting on casualty around social services and I think within some pockets of ens, are you done with these underwriting actions as we head into 2026 and they're no longer a headwind
Speaker #8: Got it. Thank you for the details.
Craig Lindner: Got it. Thank you for the details.
Craig Lindner: Got it. Thank you for the details.
Speaker #7: Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press *11 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press *11 again.
Operator: Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Andersen from Jefferies.
Operator: Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Andersen from Jefferies.
Speaker #7: Our next question comes from the line of Andrew Anderson from Jefferies.
Speaker #2: Hey, good morning. You had previously been doing some re-underwriting on casualty around social services, and I think within some pockets of E&S. Are you done with these underwriting actions as we head into 2026 and they're no longer a—
Andrew Andersen: Hey, good morning. You'd previously been doing some reunderwriting on casualty around Social Services, and I think within some pockets of E&S. Are you done with these underwriting actions as we head into 2026, and they're no longer a headwind?
Andrew Andersen: Hey, good morning. You'd previously been doing some reunderwriting on casualty around Social Services, and I think within some pockets of E&S. Are you done with these underwriting actions as we head into 2026, and they're no longer a headwind?
Yeah, for the most, for the most part, you know, we, uh, we might have a couple million dollars of business that, um, still to be non-renewed. Uh, this year, uh, particularly in the daycare, uh, side of things. We're pretty much through, uh, that the non-renewal actions, uh, in, uh, housing accounts and, uh, and that, uh, so, you know, last year, the premium was down. I think this year, um, as I think I mentioned earlier, I think we would expect, uh, you know, kind of some modest premium growth uh, in the in, in this business. Uh, and that. So
Speaker #2: headwind? Yeah.
Carl Lindner: Yeah, for the most, for the most part. You know, we might have a couple million dollars of business that still to be non-renewed this year, particularly in the daycare side of things. We're pretty much through the non-renewal actions in housing accounts and that. So, you know, last year, the premium was down. I think this year, as I think I mentioned earlier, I think we would expect, you know, kind of some modest premium growth in this business, and that, so.
Carl Lindner: Yeah, for the most, for the most part. You know, we might have a couple million dollars of business that still to be non-renewed this year, particularly in the daycare side of things. We're pretty much through the non-renewal actions in housing accounts and that. So, you know, last year, the premium was down. I think this year, as I think I mentioned earlier, I think we would expect, you know, kind of some modest premium growth in this business, and that, so.
Speaker #4: For the most part, we might have a couple of million dollars of business that still need to be non-renewed this year, particularly on the daycare side of things.
Speaker #4: We're pretty much through the non-renewal actions in housing accounts and that. So last year, the premium was down. I think this year, as I think I mentioned earlier, I think we would expect kind of some modest premium growth in this business and that,
Speaker #4: We're pretty much through the non-renewal actions in housing accounts and that. So last year, the premium was down. I think this year, as I think I mentioned earlier, I think we would expect kind of some modest premium growth in this business and that, so.
Thanks and and then Brian, if we go back to Specialty casualty and the underlying loss ratio there, I'm just trying to understand the 69 and the quarter. Um was there a intra-year catch up in the fourth quarter? Um, I suppose I'm just trying to get better color on what was the the true underlying Trend and what is maybe the kicking off point for 26? Underlying
Speaker #2: Thanks. And then, Brian, if we go back to specialty casualty and the underlying loss ratio there, I'm just trying to understand—the 69 in the quarter, was there an intra-year catch-up in the fourth quarter?
Andrew Andersen: Thanks. And then, Brian, if we go back to Specialty Casualty and the underlying loss ratio there, I'm just trying to understand the 69 in the quarter. Was there an intra-year catch-up in the fourth quarter? I suppose I'm just trying to get better color on what was the true underlying trend, and what is maybe the kicking off point for 2026 underlying.
Andrew Andersen: Thanks. And then, Brian, if we go back to Specialty Casualty and the underlying loss ratio there, I'm just trying to understand the 69 in the quarter. Was there an intra-year catch-up in the fourth quarter? I suppose I'm just trying to get better color on what was the true underlying trend, and what is maybe the kicking off point for 2026 underlying.
Sure. So, so we, we look at our loss picks every quarter and make adjustments throughout the years. So, uh, so in some of those units things were have been adjusted all year. The 1, that the 1 that probably had a larger adjustment in the fourth quarter was the California workers comp. But again, that's not in the business that for the full year is less than 100 million dollars in premiums. So I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that that's a run rate. I think the the the California workers comp
Speaker #2: I suppose I'm just trying to get better color on what was the true underlying trend and what is maybe the kicking-off point for '26 underlying?
Adjustment, probably elevates the, the the loss ratio a little bit. I think, if you look at the the full year loss ratio for casualty, that's probably a better indication of of like a run rate type of number
Speaker #1: Sure. So we look at our loss picks every quarter and make adjustments throughout the year. So in some of those units, things have been adjusted all year.
Brian Hertzman: Sure. So we look at our loss picks every quarter and make adjustments throughout the year. So in some of those units, things haven't been adjusted all year. The one that probably had a larger adjustment in the fourth quarter was the California workers' comp, but again, that's on the business that for the full year is less than $100 million of premium. So I wouldn't say that that's a run rate. I think the California workers' comp adjustment probably elevates the ex- the loss ratio a little bit. I think if you look at the full year loss ratio for casualty, that's probably a better indication of like a run rate type of number.
Brian Hertzman: Sure. So we look at our loss picks every quarter and make adjustments throughout the year. So in some of those units, things haven't been adjusted all year. The one that probably had a larger adjustment in the fourth quarter was the California workers' comp, but again, that's on the business that for the full year is less than $100 million of premium. So I wouldn't say that that's a run rate. I think the California workers' comp adjustment probably elevates the ex- the loss ratio a little bit. I think if you look at the full year loss ratio for casualty, that's probably a better indication of like a run rate type of number.
Speaker #1: The one that probably had a larger adjustment in the fourth quarter was the California Workers' Comp. But again, that's on the business that, for the full year, is less than $100 million of premium.
Okay thanks and then maybe 1 more um just looking at the expense ratio I think as we came into 25 there was maybe some business mixed ship business, Mick shift headwind and some commission changes have those kind of find their level now and perhaps we could see some improvement into 26.
Speaker #1: So, I wouldn’t say that that’s a run rate. I think the California Workers’ Comp adjustment probably elevates the loss ratio a little bit. I think if you look at the full-year loss ratio for casualty, that’s probably a better indication of a run rate type of number.
Speaker #1: So, I wouldn't say that that's a run rate. I think the California Workers' Comp adjustment probably elevates the loss ratio a little bit. I think if you look at the full-year loss ratio for casualty, that's probably a better indication of a run rate type of—
Speaker #2: Okay, thanks. And then maybe one more, just looking at the expense ratio. I think as we came into '25, there was maybe some business mix shift headwind and some commission changes.
Andrew Andersen: Okay, thanks. And then maybe one more. Just looking at the expense ratio, I think as we came into 2025, there was maybe some business mix shift headwind and some commission changes. Have those kind of find their level now, and perhaps we could see some improvement into 2026?
Andrew Andersen: Okay, thanks. And then maybe one more. Just looking at the expense ratio, I think as we came into 2025, there was maybe some business mix shift headwind and some commission changes. Have those kind of find their level now, and perhaps we could see some improvement into 2026?
Yeah, there, there will always be a mix of impact. Uh, mix of business impact there, like, Carl mentioned something, like our embedded Insurance That Could, That Could lead to some growth with that. That when we look at businesses, we look at the Roes overall, and the combined reviews to drive those Roe. So, if we grow in a business with a higher expense ratio that that would have a negative impact. Um, what I, what I would would say, um,
Speaker #2: Have those kind of found their level now? And perhaps we could see some improvement into '26?
Speaker #1: Yeah. There will always be a mix of impact—a mix of business impact. Like Carl mentioned, something like our embedded insurance could lead to some growth.
Brian Hertzman: Yeah, there will always be a mix of impact, mix of business impact there. Like Carl mentioned, something like our embedded insurance that could lead to some growth. Well, when we look at businesses, we look at the ROEs overall and the combined ratios to drive those ROE. So if we grow in a business with a higher expense ratio, that would have a negative impact. What I would say, in terms of the other things that might affect, that we continue to invest in the future for the company.
Brian Hertzman: Yeah, there will always be a mix of impact, mix of business impact there. Like Carl mentioned, something like our embedded insurance that could lead to some growth. Well, when we look at businesses, we look at the ROEs overall and the combined ratios to drive those ROE. So if we grow in a business with a higher expense ratio, that would have a negative impact. What I would say, in terms of the other things that might affect, that we continue to invest in the future for the company.
In terms of, in terms of the, uh, other things that might affect that we continue to invest in the future for the company. So, we continue to have some initiatives around customer experience data analytics, which would include things like, Ai, and machine learning as well as it security that can have a, a sort of a, a negative impact in the current period, but it's setting us up for strong Roes in the long run.
Speaker #1: Well, when we look at businesses, we look at the ROEs overall and the combined ratios to drive those ROEs. So, if we grow in a business with a higher expense ratio, that would have a negative impact.
Um, so I think I think that um we should be good there.
Speaker #1: What I would say in terms of the other things that might affect that, we continue to invest in the future for the company. So we continue to have some initiatives around customer experience, data analytics, which would include things like AI and machine learning, as well as IT security that can have a sort of a negative impact in the current period, but it's setting us up for strong ROEs in the long run.
not that you wouldn't see some upticks or downtick, but I think if and I think another thing that I guess to know, if you're looking at expense ratio overall is to, uh, remind you that in some of our businesses, we receive
uh,
Brian Hertzman: So we continue to have some initiatives around customer experience, data analytics, which would include things like AI and machine learning, as well as IT security, that can have a sort of a negative impact in the current period, but it's setting us up for stronger ROEs in the long run. So I think, I think that we should be good there. Not that you wouldn't see some upticks or downticks, but I think if... And, and I think another thing that I guess to know, if you're looking at the expense ratio overall, is to remind you that in some of our businesses, we receive ceding commissions that vary with the profitability of the business. So like in Q4, the expense ratio of Property and Transportation looks very low.
Brian Hertzman: So we continue to have some initiatives around customer experience, data analytics, which would include things like AI and machine learning, as well as IT security, that can have a sort of a negative impact in the current period, but it's setting us up for stronger ROEs in the long run. So I think, I think that we should be good there. Not that you wouldn't see some upticks or downticks, but I think if... And, and I think another thing that I guess to know, if you're looking at the expense ratio overall, is to remind you that in some of our businesses, we receive ceding commissions that vary with the profitability of the business. So like in Q4, the expense ratio of Property and Transportation looks very low.
Speaker #1: So I think that we should be good there. Not that you wouldn't see some upticks or downticks, but I think another thing that I guess to note, if you're looking at the expense ratio overall, is to remind you that in some of our businesses, we receive ceding commissions that vary with the profitability of the business.
Speaker #1: So, in the fourth quarter, the expense ratio and property transportation look very low. That's because, with a very strong crop year, the ceding commission is higher.
The expense ratio looks very strong there um and then on the other side in the financial segment where uh we have the the very profitable lender Place business, some of the commissions that we pay to Brokers and agents vary with profitability over a long periods of time. So as you add on Collective strong performance quarter after quarter in that business, those profit-based commissions go up. So you see improved loss ratios, uh, in that business. But then because the the broker commission, goes up it, uh, it it can cause the expense ratio to be a little higher.
Brian Hertzman: That's because with the very strong crop year, the ceding commission is higher, and since ceding commissions reduce underwriting expenses, the expense ratio looks very strong there. And then on the other side, in the financial segment, where we have the very profitable lender-placed business, some of the commissions that we pay to brokers and agents vary with profitability over long periods of time. So as you add on collective strong performance quarter after quarter in that business, those profit-based commissions go up. So you see improved loss ratios in that business, but then because the broker commission goes up, it can cause the expense ratio to be a little higher.
Brian Hertzman: That's because with the very strong crop year, the ceding commission is higher, and since ceding commissions reduce underwriting expenses, the expense ratio looks very strong there. And then on the other side, in the financial segment, where we have the very profitable lender-placed business, some of the commissions that we pay to brokers and agents vary with profitability over long periods of time. So as you add on collective strong performance quarter after quarter in that business, those profit-based commissions go up. So you see improved loss ratios in that business, but then because the broker commission goes up, it can cause the expense ratio to be a little higher.
Thank you.
Speaker #1: And some seating commissions reduce under any expenses. The expense ratio looks very strong there. And then, on the other side, in the financial segment where we have the very profitable underplace business, some of the commissions that we pay to brokers and agents vary with profitability over a long period of time.
1 moment for our next question.
Our next question comes from the line of Michael zaremski from BMO.
Speaker #1: So as you add on collective strong performance quarter after quarter in that business, those profit-based commissions go up. So you see improved loss ratios in that business, but then, because the broker commission goes up, it can cause the expense ratio to be a little higher.
Hi, just 1 more for me on, uh, Capital Management. I see the special dividend announcement, um, but just curious whether no BuyBacks or material amount this quarter, you know, you you've done, 5 Axis, or valuation levels in previous quarters. So, just wondering, you know, should we be thinking about sharing purchases to resume in 2026, or how should we be thinking about that?
Speaker #2: Thank you.
Andrew Andersen: Thank you.
Andrew Andersen: Thank you.
Uh yeah Mike. This is this is Craig. I wouldn't read too much into uh
Speaker #7: One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Michael Zarimsky from BMO.
Operator: One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Michael Zaremski from BMO.
Operator: One moment for our next question. Our next question comes from the line of Michael Zaremski from BMO.
No share repurchases on the in the fourth quarter. Um is we've said, uh, you know, previously we're we're opportunistic, uh, you know, in terms of uh repurchase programs
Speaker #8: Hi, just one more from me on capital management. I see the special dividend announcement, but just curious whether no buybacks or material amount this quarter you've done buybacks at similar valuation levels in previous quarters to just wondering should we be thinking about share repurchases to resume in 2026 or how should we be thinking about
[Analyst] (BMO): Hi, just one more for me on capital management. I see the special dividend announcement, but just curious why there are no buybacks or material amount this quarter. You know, you've done buybacks at similar valuation levels in previous quarters. So just wondering, you know, should we think about share repurchases to resume in 2026, or how should we be thinking about that?
Dan Stroller: Hi, just one more for me on capital management. I see the special dividend announcement, but just curious why there are no buybacks or material amount this quarter. You know, you've done buybacks at similar valuation levels in previous quarters. So just wondering, you know, should we think about share repurchases to resume in 2026, or how should we be thinking about that?
Um, and uh, 1 of our Shares are trading at a meaningful discount. We, uh, we like to keep enough dry powder on hand to, uh,
you know, be in a position to buy a significant amount of of shares in, um,
I I I would comment that, you know, we did make a decision to
Speaker #8: that? Yeah,
Carl Lindner: Yeah, Mike, this is Craig. I wouldn't read too much into no share repurchases in Q4. As we said, you know, previously, we're opportunistic, you know, in terms of repurchase programs. And when our shares are trading at a meaningful discount, we like to keep enough dry powder on hand to, you know, be in a position to buy a significant amount of shares in. I would comment that, you know, we did make a decision to reduce the special dividend that we're paying in Q1 by $0.50 versus the previous year to save a little more dry powder to, you know, for other alternatives, including the potential for share repurchases.
Speaker #4: Mike, this is Craig. I wouldn't read too much into no share repurchases in the fourth quarter. We've said previously we're opportunistic in terms of repurchase programs.
Carl Lindner: Yeah, Mike, this is Craig. I wouldn't read too much into no share repurchases in Q4. As we said, you know, previously, we're opportunistic, you know, in terms of repurchase programs. And when our shares are trading at a meaningful discount, we like to keep enough dry powder on hand to, you know, be in a position to buy a significant amount of shares in. I would comment that, you know, we did make a decision to reduce the special dividend that we're paying in Q1 by $0.50 versus the previous year to save a little more dry powder to, you know, for other alternatives, including the potential for share repurchases.
Uh, reduce the special dividend, uh, that we're paying at a first quarter by 50 Cents versus the previous year to save a little more dry powder to for other Alternatives, uh, including the potential for share repurchases.
Speaker #4: And when our shares are trading at a meaningful discount, we like to keep enough dry powder on hand to be in a position to buy a significant amount of shares in.
Thank you at this time. I would not like to turn the conference back over to Diana Weidner for closing remarks.
Speaker #4: I would comment that we did make a decision to reduce the special dividend that we're paying in the first quarter by $0.50 versus the previous year to save a little more dry powder for other alternatives, including the potential for share repurchases.
Thank you all for joining us this morning and, and for the great opportunity to uh to answer your questions and share a little bit more about afg story. So we look forward to chatting with you all again, next quarter, when we share our first quarter results, hope you all have a great day.
This concludes today's conference call, thank you for participating. You may now disconnect
Speaker #4: repurchases. Thank
Speaker #7: you. At this time, I would now like to turn the conference back over to Diane Weidner for closing remarks.
Operator: Thank you. At this time, I would now like to turn the conference back over to Diane Weidner for closing remarks.
Operator: Thank you. At this time, I would now like to turn the conference back over to Diane Weidner for closing remarks.
Carl Lindner: Thank you all for joining us this morning and for the great opportunity to answer your questions and share a little bit more about AFG's story. So we look forward to chatting with you all again next quarter when we share our first quarter results. Hope you all have a great day.
Carl Lindner: Thank you all for joining us this morning and for the great opportunity to answer your questions and share a little bit more about AFG's story. So we look forward to chatting with you all again next quarter when we share our first quarter results. Hope you all have a great day.
Speaker #5: Good morning, and thank you for the great opportunity. Thank you all for joining us this morning to answer your questions and share a little bit more about AFG's story.
Speaker #5: So we look forward to chatting with you all again next quarter when we share our first quarter results. Hope you all have a great
Speaker #5: day. This concludes today's
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
