Alpine Income Property Trust Q4 2025 Alpine Income Property Trust Inc Earnings Call | AllMind AI Earnings | AllMind AI
Q4 2025 Alpine Income Property Trust Inc Earnings Call
Operator: Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Alpine Q4 Year-End 2025 earnings call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. To ask a question during this session, you will need to press star one one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising that your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Jenna McKinney, Finance Director. Please go ahead.
Operator: Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the Alpine Q4 Year-End 2025 earnings call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. To ask a question during this session, you will need to press star one one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising that your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Jenna McKinney, Finance Director. Please go ahead.
Speaker #1: After the speakers' presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. To ask a question during this session, you will need to press star 11 on your telephone.
Speaker #1: You will then hear an automated message advising that your hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.
Speaker #1: I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Jenna McKinney, Finance Director. Please go ahead.
Jenna McKinney: Thank you. Joining me in participating on the call this morning are John Albright, President and CEO, Philip Mays, CFO, and other members of the executive team, who will be available to answer questions during the call. As a reminder, many of our comments today are considered forward-looking statements under federal securities laws. The company's actual future results may differ significantly from the matters discussed in these forward-looking statements, and we undertake no duty to update these statements. Factors and risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are disclosed from time to time in greater detail in the company's Form 10-K, Form 10-Q, and other SEC filings. You can find our SEC reports, earnings release, and most recent investor presentation, which contain reconciliations of the non-GAAP financial measures we use on our website at www.alpinereit.com. With that, I will turn the call over to John.
Q4 2025 Alpine Income Property Trust Inc Earnings Call
Jenna McKinney: Thank you. Joining me in participating on the call this morning are John Albright, President and CEO, Philip Mays, CFO, and other members of the executive team, who will be available to answer questions during the call. As a reminder, many of our comments today are considered forward-looking statements under federal securities laws. The company's actual future results may differ significantly from the matters discussed in these forward-looking statements, and we undertake no duty to update these statements. Factors and risks that could cause actual results to differ materially from expectations are disclosed from time to time in greater detail in the company's Form 10-K, Form 10-Q, and other SEC filings. You can find our SEC reports, earnings release, and most recent investor presentation, which contain reconciliations of the non-GAAP financial measures we use on our website at www.alpinereit.com. With that, I will turn the call over to John.
Speaker #2: Thank you. Joining me in participating on the call this morning are John Albright, President and CEO, Philip Mays, CFO, and other members of the executive team, who will be available to answer questions during the call.
Speaker #2: As a reminder, many of our comments today are considered forward-looking statements under federal securities actual future results may differ laws. The company's significantly from the matters discussed in these forward-looking statements, and we undertake no duty to update these actual results to differ statements.
Speaker #2: materially from expectations are disclosed from Factors and risks that could cause time to time in greater detail in the company's Form 10-K, Form 10-Q, and other SEC filings.
Speaker #2: You can find our SEC reports, earnings release, and most recent investor presentation, which contain reconciliations of the non-GAAP financial measures we use on our website at www.alpinerite.com.
Speaker #2: With that, I will turn the call over to John.
Speaker #3: Thank you, Jenna, and good morning, everyone. We are pleased to report a strong fourth quarter highlighted by 22.7% growth in AFFO per common share and 142.1 million of investments.
John Albright: Thank you, Jenna, and good morning, everyone. We are pleased to report a strong fourth quarter, highlighted by 22.7% growth in AFFO per common share and $142.1 million of investments to complete an annual record of $277.7 million of investments for 2025. This record annual investment volume consisted in driving 8.6% growth in AFFO per common share for the full year 2025. Beyond investment volume, we successfully executed on all areas of our business plan during the year. Specifically, as it relates to property acquisitions, during the fourth quarter, we acquired 8 properties for approximately $40 million at a weighted average initial cash cap rate of 6.9%.
John Albright: Thank you, Jenna, and good morning, everyone. We are pleased to report a strong fourth quarter, highlighted by 22.7% growth in AFFO per common share and $142.1 million of investments to complete an annual record of $277.7 million of investments for 2025. This record annual investment volume consisted in driving 8.6% growth in AFFO per common share for the full year 2025. Beyond investment volume, we successfully executed on all areas of our business plan during the year. Specifically, as it relates to property acquisitions, during the fourth quarter, we acquired 8 properties for approximately $40 million at a weighted average initial cash cap rate of 6.9%.
Speaker #3: To complete an annual record of 277.7 million dollars of investments, for 2025. This record annual investment volume consisted in driving 8.6% growth in AFFO per common share for the full year 2025.
Speaker #3: Beyond investment volume, we successfully executed on all areas of our business plan during the year. Specifically, as it relates to property acquisitions, during the fourth quarter, we acquired eight properties for approximately $40 million and weighted average initial cash cap rate of 6.9%.
Speaker #3: For the full year, we acquired 13 properties for $100.6 million at a weighted average initial cap rate of 7.4%. Notably, these acquisitions are representative of our strategic barbell approach to acquisitions, and included investment-grade rated tenants such as Lowe's and Walmart, plus higher-yielding property investments like the headquarters and manufacturing facility for Germfree Labs.
John Albright: For the full year, we acquired 13 properties for $100.6 million at a weighted average initial cap rate of 7.4%. Notably, these acquisitions are representative of our strategic barbell approach to acquisitions and included investment-grade-rated tenants such as Lowe's and Walmart, plus higher-yielding property investments like the headquarters and manufacturing facility for Germfree. Alongside this 2025 acquisition activity in the Q4, we also continued to successfully execute our strategic recycling plan, selling 9 non-core properties for $38.4 million at a weighted average exit cap rate of 7.7%, bringing property disposition volume for the full year 2025 to $72.8 million, consisting of $67.4 million of income-producing properties at a weighted average exit cap rate of 8% and $5.3 million related to vacant properties.
John Albright: For the full year, we acquired 13 properties for $100.6 million at a weighted average initial cap rate of 7.4%. Notably, these acquisitions are representative of our strategic barbell approach to acquisitions and included investment-grade-rated tenants such as Lowe's and Walmart, plus higher-yielding property investments like the headquarters and manufacturing facility for Germfree. Alongside this 2025 acquisition activity in the Q4, we also continued to successfully execute our strategic recycling plan, selling 9 non-core properties for $38.4 million at a weighted average exit cap rate of 7.7%, bringing property disposition volume for the full year 2025 to $72.8 million, consisting of $67.4 million of income-producing properties at a weighted average exit cap rate of 8% and $5.3 million related to vacant properties.
Speaker #3: Alongside this 2025 acquisition activity in the fourth quarter, we also continued to successfully execute our strategic recycling plan, selling nine non-core properties for $38.4 million at weighted average exit cap rate of 7.7%, bringing property disposition volume for the full year 2025 to 72.8 million, consisting of 67.4 million of income-producing properties at a weighted average exit cap rate of 8% and 5.3 million dollars related to vacant properties.
Speaker #3: As a result of this combined 2025 property portfolio activity, 51% of our ABR is now generated from investment grade rated tenants. Notably, Lowe's, Dick's Sporting Goods, and Walmart are now all within the top five tenants, collectively representing 29% of our currently represents 4% of ABR and has fallen to our ninth tenant.
John Albright: As a result of this combined 2025 property portfolio activity, 51% of our ABR is now generated from investment-grade rated tenants. Notably, Lowe's, Dick's Sporting Goods, and Walmart are now all within the top five tenants, collectively representing 29% of our ABR. Further, Walgreens currently represents 4% of ABR and has fallen to our ninth tenant, with only five remaining locations in our portfolio. More broadly, at year-end, our property portfolio consisted of 127 properties, totaling 4.3 million square feet across 32 states, with a WALT of 8.4 years and 99.5% occupancy. Now moving to the exciting growth in our commercial loan portfolio. As a result of our long-standing reputation and deep industry relationships, we continue to see and capitalize on compelling opportunities to originate high-yielding commercial loans with quality sponsors at attractive risk-adjusted returns.
John Albright: As a result of this combined 2025 property portfolio activity, 51% of our ABR is now generated from investment-grade rated tenants. Notably, Lowe's, Dick's Sporting Goods, and Walmart are now all within the top five tenants, collectively representing 29% of our ABR. Further, Walgreens currently represents 4% of ABR and has fallen to our ninth tenant, with only five remaining locations in our portfolio. More broadly, at year-end, our property portfolio consisted of 127 properties, totaling 4.3 million square feet across 32 states, with a WALT of 8.4 years and 99.5% occupancy. Now moving to the exciting growth in our commercial loan portfolio. As a result of our long-standing reputation and deep industry relationships, we continue to see and capitalize on compelling opportunities to originate high-yielding commercial loans with quality sponsors at attractive risk-adjusted returns.
Speaker #3: With only five remaining locations in our portfolio, more broadly, at year-end, our property portfolio consisted of 127 properties totaling $4.3 million square feet across 32 states with a Walt of 8.4 years and 99.5% occupancy.
Speaker #3: Now moving to the exciting growth in our commercial loan portfolio. As a result of our longstanding reputation and deep industry relationships, we continue to see and capitalize on compelling opportunities to originate high-yielding commercial loans with quality sponsors at attractive risk-adjusted returns.
Speaker #3: During the fourth quarter, we originated five commercial loan investments and amended one commercial loan, totaling a combined $102.3 million of commitments at a weighted average initial coupon of 13.5%.
John Albright: During Q4, we originated 5 commercial loan investments and amended 1 commercial loan, totaling a combined $102.3 million of commitments at a weighted average initial coupon of 13.5%, bringing our full year to $177 million of commercial loan originations at weighted average initial coupon of 12%, including paid-in-kind interest when applicable. The high-quality real estate projects underlying these loans are located in major MSAs, supported by strong sponsors, and have been many years in the making. We are excited to be a part of these projects. Additionally, during Q4, we sold a $10 million senior interest in our previously announced commercial loan, secured by a luxury residential development located in Austin, Texas metropolitan area. This sale reduced concentration in one of our largest commercial loans.
John Albright: During Q4, we originated 5 commercial loan investments and amended 1 commercial loan, totaling a combined $102.3 million of commitments at a weighted average initial coupon of 13.5%, bringing our full year to $177 million of commercial loan originations at weighted average initial coupon of 12%, including paid-in-kind interest when applicable. The high-quality real estate projects underlying these loans are located in major MSAs, supported by strong sponsors, and have been many years in the making. We are excited to be a part of these projects. Additionally, during Q4, we sold a $10 million senior interest in our previously announced commercial loan, secured by a luxury residential development located in Austin, Texas metropolitan area. This sale reduced concentration in one of our largest commercial loans.
Speaker #3: $177 million of commercial loan originations, bringing our full year to a weighted average initial coupon of 12%, including paid-in-kind interest when applicable. The high-quality real estate projects underlying these loans are located in major MSAs, supported by strong sponsors, and have been many years in the making.
Speaker #3: We are excited to be a part of these projects. Additionally, during the fourth quarter, we sold a $10 million senior interest in our previously announced commercial loan secured by a luxury residential development located in the Austin, Texas metropolitan area.
Speaker #3: This sale reduced concentration in one of our largest commercial loans. From time to time, we will likely consider additional sales of senior interests in larger loan investments, to efficiently manage diversification while enhancing the yield of our net interest.
John Albright: From time to time, we will likely consider additional sales of senior interests in larger loan investments to efficiently manage diversification while enhancing the yield of our net interest. At year-end, our net commercial loan portfolio was approximately $129.8 million, up from $48 million at the beginning of the year, highlighting the significant scale and momentum captured by our platform during the past year. Additionally, we are targeting our commercial loan portfolio to generally run at approximately 20% of our total undepreciated asset value, complementing our property portfolio investments and increasing our overall yield on our total assets, although timing of funding and repayments of loan investments may vary quarter to quarter.
John Albright: From time to time, we will likely consider additional sales of senior interests in larger loan investments to efficiently manage diversification while enhancing the yield of our net interest. At year-end, our net commercial loan portfolio was approximately $129.8 million, up from $48 million at the beginning of the year, highlighting the significant scale and momentum captured by our platform during the past year. Additionally, we are targeting our commercial loan portfolio to generally run at approximately 20% of our total undepreciated asset value, complementing our property portfolio investments and increasing our overall yield on our total assets, although timing of funding and repayments of loan investments may vary quarter to quarter.
Speaker #3: At year-end, our net commercial loan portfolio was approximately $129.8 million, up from $48 million at the beginning of the year, highlighting the significant scale and momentum captured by our platform during the past year.
Speaker #3: Additionally, we are targeting our commercial loan portfolio to generally run at approximately 20% of our total undepreciated asset value, complementing our property portfolio investments and increasing our overall yield on our total assets.
Speaker #3: Although timing of funding and repayments of loan investments may vary quarter to quarter, combined completed property acquisitions and loan originations were approximately $142.1 million for the fourth quarter, at a yield of 11.7%, and $277.7 million for the full year at a weighted average initial yield of 10.3%.
John Albright: Combined, completed property acquisitions and loan originations were approximately $142.1 million for Q4 at a weighted average initial yield of 11.7% and $277.7 million for the full year at a weighted average initial yield of 10.3%. The $277.7 million of investments completed was our most productive year in our company's history. To support this level of investment activity, we not only generated capital through strategic asset sales, but also opportunistically accessed the capital markets. In November, we issued $50 million of a new Series A Preferred Stock with an 8% coupon.
John Albright: Combined, completed property acquisitions and loan originations were approximately $142.1 million for Q4 at a weighted average initial yield of 11.7% and $277.7 million for the full year at a weighted average initial yield of 10.3%. The $277.7 million of investments completed was our most productive year in our company's history. To support this level of investment activity, we not only generated capital through strategic asset sales, but also opportunistically accessed the capital markets. In November, we issued $50 million of a new Series A Preferred Stock with an 8% coupon.
Speaker #3: The $277.7 million of investments completed was our most productive year in our company's history. To support this level of investment activity, we not only generated capital through strategic asset sales but also opportunistically accessed the capital markets. In November, we issued $50 million of a new Series A preferred stock with an 8% coupon.
Speaker #3: Additionally, late in the fourth quarter of 2025 and early in the first quarter of 2026, we utilized both our common ATM and the Series A Preferred ATM programs, raising a combined $18.3 million of equity.
John Albright: Additionally, late in Q4 of 2025, early in Q1 of 2026, we utilized both our common ATM and the Series A preferred ATM programs, raising a combined $18.3 million of equity. Lastly, as we look to 2026, we're excited about the outlook for the company. We believe our investment activity, equity raises, and recent debt refinancings, for which Phil will provide more details, have positioned the company well as we start the new year. Further, our board recently decided to increase our quarterly common dividend per share of 5.3% to $0.30 per share, beginning in Q1 of this year. And with that, I will turn the call over to Phil.
John Albright: Additionally, late in Q4 of 2025, early in Q1 of 2026, we utilized both our common ATM and the Series A preferred ATM programs, raising a combined $18.3 million of equity. Lastly, as we look to 2026, we're excited about the outlook for the company. We believe our investment activity, equity raises, and recent debt refinancings, for which Phil will provide more details, have positioned the company well as we start the new year. Further, our board recently decided to increase our quarterly common dividend per share of 5.3% to $0.30 per share, beginning in Q1 of this year. And with that, I will turn the call over to Phil.
Speaker #3: Lastly, as we look to 2026, we're excited about the outlook for the company. We believe our investment activity, equity raises, and recent debt refinancings for which Phil will provide more details have positioned the company well as we start the new year.
Speaker #3: Further, our board recently decided to increase our quarterly common dividend per share by 5.3% to $0.30 per share, beginning in the first quarter of this year.
Speaker #3: And with that, I will turn the call over to
Speaker #3: Phil. Thanks, John.
Philip Mays: Thanks, John. Beginning with a quick summary of financial results. For the fourth quarter, total revenue was $16.9 million, including lease income of $12.7 million and interest income from commercial loan investments of $4 million. Both FFO and AFFO attributable to common stockholders for the quarter were $0.54 per diluted share, representing 22.7% growth over the comparable quarter of the prior year. For the full year, total revenue was $60.5 million, including lease income of $48.7 million and interest income from commercial loan investments of $11.4 million. FFO and AFFO attributable to common stockholders were $1.88 and $1.89 per diluted share, respectively, representing approximately 8.6% growth over the prior year.
Philip Mays: Thanks, John. Beginning with a quick summary of financial results. For the fourth quarter, total revenue was $16.9 million, including lease income of $12.7 million and interest income from commercial loan investments of $4 million. Both FFO and AFFO attributable to common stockholders for the quarter were $0.54 per diluted share, representing 22.7% growth over the comparable quarter of the prior year. For the full year, total revenue was $60.5 million, including lease income of $48.7 million and interest income from commercial loan investments of $11.4 million. FFO and AFFO attributable to common stockholders were $1.88 and $1.89 per diluted share, respectively, representing approximately 8.6% growth over the prior year.
Speaker #2: Beginning with a quick summary of financial results. For the fourth quarter, total revenue was $16.9 million, including lease income of $12.7 million, and interest income from commercial loan investments of $4 million.
Speaker #2: Both FFO and AFFO attributable to common stockholders for the quarter were $0.54 per diluted share, representing 22.7% growth over the comparable quarter of the prior year.
Speaker #2: For the full year, total revenue was $60.5 million, including lease income of $48.7 million and interest income from commercial loan investments of $11.4 million.
Speaker #2: FFO and AFFO attributable to common stockholders were $1.88 and $1.89 per diluted share, respectively. Representing approximately 8.6% growth over the prior year. Earnings growth for the quarter and the year was primarily driven by the investment activity John discussed, combined with disciplined balance sheet management.
Philip Mays: Earnings growth for the quarter and the year was primarily driven by the investment activity John discussed, combined with disciplined balance sheet management. Moving to the balance sheet. Similar to our investment activity, we had significant amount of capital markets activity in the Q4 of 2025 and early in the Q1 of 2026. First, on 12 November, we completed a public offering of 2 million shares of Series A Preferred Stock at a price of $25 per share with an 8% coupon. This preferred offering resulted in $50 million of gross proceeds before deducting the underwriting discount and other operating expenses, with net proceeds totaling $48.1 million. We supplemented the preferred offering proceeds with a modest amount of issuance under both our Series A Preferred and common equity ATM programs. Beginning with our preferred ATM programs.
Philip Mays: Earnings growth for the quarter and the year was primarily driven by the investment activity John discussed, combined with disciplined balance sheet management. Moving to the balance sheet. Similar to our investment activity, we had significant amount of capital markets activity in the Q4 of 2025 and early in the Q1 of 2026. First, on 12 November, we completed a public offering of 2 million shares of Series A Preferred Stock at a price of $25 per share with an 8% coupon. This preferred offering resulted in $50 million of gross proceeds before deducting the underwriting discount and other operating expenses, with net proceeds totaling $48.1 million. We supplemented the preferred offering proceeds with a modest amount of issuance under both our Series A Preferred and common equity ATM programs. Beginning with our preferred ATM programs.
Speaker #2: Moving to the balance sheet. Similar to our investment activity, we had significant amounts of capital markets activity in the fourth quarter of 2025 and early in the first quarter of 2026.
Speaker #2: First, on November 12th, we completed a public offering of $2 million shares of Series A preferred stock at a price of $25 per share within 8% coupon.
Speaker #2: This of gross proceeds before deducting the preferred offering resulted in $50 million underwriting discount and other offering expenses with net proceeds totaling $48.1 million.
Speaker #2: We supplemented the preferred offering proceeds with a modest amount of issuance under both our Series A preferred and common equity ATM programs. Beginning with our preferred ATM programs.
Speaker #2: From late fourth quarter to early in the first quarter of 2026, we issued just our Series A preferred stock—over 116,000 shares—at a weighted average price of $24.92 per share.
Philip Mays: From late Q4 to early in Q1 of 2026, we issued just over 116,000 shares of our Series A Preferred Stock at a weighted average price of $24.92 per share, for total net proceeds of approximately $2.8 million. Likewise, during this time, under our common stock ATM program, we issued just over 918,000 shares at a weighted average price of $17.13, for total net proceeds of approximately $15.5 million. Additionally, earlier this week, we closed a new unsecured credit facility and completely recast the company's unsecured debt.
Philip Mays: From late Q4 to early in Q1 of 2026, we issued just over 116,000 shares of our Series A Preferred Stock at a weighted average price of $24.92 per share, for total net proceeds of approximately $2.8 million. Likewise, during this time, under our common stock ATM program, we issued just over 918,000 shares at a weighted average price of $17.13, for total net proceeds of approximately $15.5 million. Additionally, earlier this week, we closed a new unsecured credit facility and completely recast the company's unsecured debt.
Speaker #2: For total net proceeds of approximately $2.8 million. Likewise, during this time under our common stock ATM program, we issued just over $918,000 shares at a weighted average price of $17.13 for total net proceeds of approximately $15.5 million.
Speaker #2: Additionally, earlier this week, we closed a new unsecured credit facility and completely recast the company's unsecured debt. The new credit facility consists of a $250 million revolving credit facility, with an initial term of four years, with two six-month extension options, a $100 million three-year term loan, and a $100 million five-year term loan.
Philip Mays: The new credit facility consists of a $250 million revolving credit facility with an initial term of 4 years, with two 6-month extension options, a $100 million 3-year term loan, and a $100 million 5-year term loan. The proceeds from the new credit facility were used to fully repay and retire the company's prior revolving credit facility and term loans, resulting in the company now having no debt maturities for 3 years. Further, pricing for borrowings under the new credit facility improved by 10 to 15 basis points, and it provides for more flexibility and borrowing capacity related to our commercial loan investments. Please see our recent press release related to this credit facility for more details.
Philip Mays: The new credit facility consists of a $250 million revolving credit facility with an initial term of 4 years, with two 6-month extension options, a $100 million 3-year term loan, and a $100 million 5-year term loan. The proceeds from the new credit facility were used to fully repay and retire the company's prior revolving credit facility and term loans, resulting in the company now having no debt maturities for 3 years. Further, pricing for borrowings under the new credit facility improved by 10 to 15 basis points, and it provides for more flexibility and borrowing capacity related to our commercial loan investments. Please see our recent press release related to this credit facility for more details.
Speaker #2: The proceeds from the new credit facility were used to fully repay and retire the company's prior revolving credit facility and term loans. Resulting in the company now having no debt maturities for three years.
Speaker #2: Further, pricing for borrowings under the new credit facility improved by 10 to 15 basis points, and it provides for more flexibility in borrowing capacity related to our commercial loan investments.
Speaker #2: Please see our recent press release related to this credit facility for more details. We ended the year with net debt to pro forma adjusted EBITDA of $6.7 times, compared to $7.4 times at the beginning of the year.
Philip Mays: We ended the year with net debt to pro forma adjusted EBITDA of 6.7 times, compared to 7.4 times at the beginning of the year. Additionally, we had $65.8 million of liquidity, consisting of approximately $25.3 million of cash available for use and $40.6 million available under our revolving credit facility. However, with in-place bank commitments, the availability under our revolving credit facility can expand by an additional $31.4 million as we acquire properties and fund commercial loans, providing for total potential liquidity of $97.3 million at year-end.
Philip Mays: We ended the year with net debt to pro forma adjusted EBITDA of 6.7 times, compared to 7.4 times at the beginning of the year. Additionally, we had $65.8 million of liquidity, consisting of approximately $25.3 million of cash available for use and $40.6 million available under our revolving credit facility. However, with in-place bank commitments, the availability under our revolving credit facility can expand by an additional $31.4 million as we acquire properties and fund commercial loans, providing for total potential liquidity of $97.3 million at year-end.
Speaker #2: Additionally, we had $65.8 million of liquidity consisting of approximately $25.3 million of cash available for use and $40.6 credit facility. However, with million available under our revolving in-place bank commitments, the availability under our revolving credit facility can expand by an additional $31.4 million as we acquire properties and fund commercial loans providing for total potential liquidity of $97.3 million, at year-end.
Speaker #2: Summarizing our investments at year-end, our property portfolio had annual-wise base rent of $46.2 million, on a straight-line basis, and our net commercial loan portfolio had loans with an aggregate face amount of $129.8 million, at a weighted average coupon rate of $12.4%.
Philip Mays: Summarizing our investments at year-end, our property portfolio had annualized base rent of $46.2 million on a straight line basis, and our net commercial loan portfolio had loans with an aggregate face amount of $129.8 million at a weighted average coupon rate of 12.4%. One additional note regarding our commercial loan portfolio. Two loan investments totaling $7.2 million at year-end, with a weighted average coupon rate of approximately 11.5%, were repaid in January 2026. Additionally, as we noted previously, our property portfolio includes approximately $3.8 million of ABR related to three single-tenant restaurant properties acquired in 2024 through a sale leaseback transaction.
Philip Mays: Summarizing our investments at year-end, our property portfolio had annualized base rent of $46.2 million on a straight line basis, and our net commercial loan portfolio had loans with an aggregate face amount of $129.8 million at a weighted average coupon rate of 12.4%. One additional note regarding our commercial loan portfolio. Two loan investments totaling $7.2 million at year-end, with a weighted average coupon rate of approximately 11.5%, were repaid in January 2026. Additionally, as we noted previously, our property portfolio includes approximately $3.8 million of ABR related to three single-tenant restaurant properties acquired in 2024 through a sale leaseback transaction.
Speaker #2: One additional note regarding our commercial loan portfolio: $2 million at year-end, with a weighted average coupon rate of approximately 11.5%, were repaid in January of 2026.
Speaker #2: Additionally, as we noted previously, our property portfolio includes approximately $3.8 million of ADR related to three single-tenant restaurant properties acquired through a sale-leaseback transaction. Although in 2024, through a sale, these properties constitute real estate for both legal and tax purposes, GAAP requires them to be accounted for as a financing.
Philip Mays: Although these properties constitute real estate for both legal and tax purposes, GAAP requires them to be accounted for as a financing. Accordingly, current annual cash payments of approximately $2.8 million are reflected as interest income rather than lease income. To provide more information about this matter and our commercial loan program, we have added additional disclosures to our press release, including the supplemental table, providing details for both the loan portfolio and related interest earnings. We hope you find this additional information helpful in understanding our investments. Now turning to our 2026 outlook. Our initial earnings guidance for the full year of 2026 is $2.07 to $2.11 for FFO per diluted common share, and $2.09 to $2.13 for AFFO per diluted common share.
Philip Mays: Although these properties constitute real estate for both legal and tax purposes, GAAP requires them to be accounted for as a financing. Accordingly, current annual cash payments of approximately $2.8 million are reflected as interest income rather than lease income. To provide more information about this matter and our commercial loan program, we have added additional disclosures to our press release, including the supplemental table, providing details for both the loan portfolio and related interest earnings. We hope you find this additional information helpful in understanding our investments. Now turning to our 2026 outlook. Our initial earnings guidance for the full year of 2026 is $2.07 to $2.11 for FFO per diluted common share, and $2.09 to $2.13 for AFFO per diluted common share.
Speaker #2: Or quarterly, current annual cash payments of approximately $2.8 million are reflected as interest income rather than lease income. To provide more information about this matter and our commercial loan program, we have added additional disclosures to our press release, including the supplemental table providing details for both the loan portfolio and related interest earnings.
Speaker #2: We hope you find this additional information helpful in understanding our investments. Now, turning to our 2026 outlook. Our initial earnings guidance for the full year of 2026 is $2.11 for FFO per diluted common share, and $2.09 to $2.13 for AFFO per diluted common share.
Speaker #2: Key assumptions reflected in our initial guidance include investment volume of $70 million to $100 million, and disposition volume of $30 million to $60 million.
Philip Mays: Key assumptions reflected in our initial guidance include investment volume of $70 to 100 million and disposition volume of $30 to 60 million. I do want to note that our 2026 guidance and growth in earnings reflects dispositions generally closing earlier than acquisitions. Furthermore, our revenue for 2025 included $221,000 in the fourth quarter and $525,000 for the full year, related to fees we received for managing and selling the third-party properties that supported our portfolio loan. During the fourth quarter of 2025, substantially all these third-party assets were sold and the portfolio loan was repaid in full. Accordingly, these fees will not be a significant source of revenue in 2026.
Philip Mays: Key assumptions reflected in our initial guidance include investment volume of $70 to 100 million and disposition volume of $30 to 60 million. I do want to note that our 2026 guidance and growth in earnings reflects dispositions generally closing earlier than acquisitions. Furthermore, our revenue for 2025 included $221,000 in the fourth quarter and $525,000 for the full year, related to fees we received for managing and selling the third-party properties that supported our portfolio loan. During the fourth quarter of 2025, substantially all these third-party assets were sold and the portfolio loan was repaid in full. Accordingly, these fees will not be a significant source of revenue in 2026.
Speaker #2: I do want to note that our 2026 guidance in growth and earnings reflects dispositions generally closing earlier than acquisitions. Furthermore, our revenue for 2025 included $221,000 in the fourth quarter, and $525,000 for the full year, related to fees we received for supporting our portfolio loan.
Speaker #2: During the fourth quarter of 2025, substantially all these third-party assets were sold, and the portfolio loan was repaid in full. Accordingly, these fees will not be a significant source of revenue in 2026.
Speaker #2: One last note: as John discussed the board has increased our quarterly common dividend to $0.30 per share beginning in the first quarter of 2026.
Philip Mays: One last note: As John discussed, the board has increased our quarterly common dividend to $0.30 per share, beginning in Q1 2026. Even with this increase, our dividend remains well covered. Specifically, this new quarterly common dividend rate represents just a 56% AFFO payout ratio, as computed on AFFO for Q4 2025. With that, operator, please open the call to questions.
Philip Mays: One last note: As John discussed, the board has increased our quarterly common dividend to $0.30 per share, beginning in Q1 2026. Even with this increase, our dividend remains well covered. Specifically, this new quarterly common dividend rate represents just a 56% AFFO payout ratio, as computed on AFFO for Q4 2025. With that, operator, please open the call to questions.
Speaker #2: Even with this increase, our dividend remains well covered. Specifically, this new quarterly common dividend rate represents just a 56% AFFO payout ratio as computed on AFFO for the fourth quarter of 2025.
Speaker #2: With that, questions. Certainly. As an operator, please open the call. To remind everyone, to ask a question, please press star 1-1 on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced.
Operator: Certainly. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please stand by while we compile our Q&A roster. Our first question will be coming from Michael Goldsmith of UBS. Your line is open, Michael.
Operator: Certainly. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please stand by while we compile our Q&A roster. Our first question will be coming from Michael Goldsmith of UBS. Your line is open, Michael.
Speaker #2: To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. Please stand by while we compile our Q&A roster. And our first question will be coming from Michael Goldsmith of UBS.
Speaker #2: Your line is open, Michael.
Speaker #3: Good morning, guys. Thanks a lot for taking my question. First question is on the loan portfolio. It looks like you set kind of an upper boundary of 20% of the portfolio.
Michael Goldsmith: Good morning, guys. Thanks a lot for taking my question. First questions on the loan portfolio. It looks like you set kind of an upper boundary of 20% of the portfolio. So can you just talk a little bit about, you know, how you came to setting it at that level? I guess, where the loan portfolio stands today relative to that, and then just how much more you can do to kind of hit that max, and if you expect to hit that this year. Thanks.
Michael Goldsmith: Good morning, guys. Thanks a lot for taking my question. First questions on the loan portfolio. It looks like you set kind of an upper boundary of 20% of the portfolio. So can you just talk a little bit about, you know, how you came to setting it at that level? I guess, where the loan portfolio stands today relative to that, and then just how much more you can do to kind of hit that max, and if you expect to hit that this year. Thanks.
Speaker #3: So can you just talk a little bit about how you came to setting it at that level? I think where the loan portfolio sets today, stands today relative to that, and then just how much more you can do to kind of hit that max and if you expect to hit that this year.
Speaker #3: Thanks.
John Albright: ... Yeah, Michael, it's John. You know, I think that, you know, really on 20% felt like that was a reasonable number, not making it too large, of course, and something that, you know, obviously is complementary to the company and the business. So it's really not an incredibly magic number, but it's, you know, low enough where it's not a distraction to our investors and enough to be, you know, interesting investments for sure.
John Albright: ... Yeah, Michael, it's John. You know, I think that, you know, really on 20% felt like that was a reasonable number, not making it too large, of course, and something that, you know, obviously is complementary to the company and the business. So it's really not an incredibly magic number, but it's, you know, low enough where it's not a distraction to our investors and enough to be, you know, interesting investments for sure.
Speaker #4: Yeah. No, Michael is John. I think that really on the 20% felt like that was a reasonable number, and I'm making it too large of course.
Speaker #4: And something that obviously is complementary to the company and the business. So it's really not incredibly magic number, but it's low enough where it's not a distraction to our investors and enough to be interesting investments for sure.
Speaker #4: And so I'll let Phil talk about kind of where we are. But as you could see from Phil's comments that we've already had a couple of loans repay.
John Albright: And so I'll let Phil talk about kind of where we are, but, you know, as you, as you could see from Phil's comments that, you know, we've already had a couple loans repay, and so that will, that will continue as we, as we do, you know, find sources for new investments as well.
John Albright: And so I'll let Phil talk about kind of where we are, but, you know, as you, as you could see from Phil's comments that, you know, we've already had a couple loans repay, and so that will, that will continue as we, as we do, you know, find sources for new investments as well.
Speaker #4: And so, that will continue as we do find sources for new investments.
Speaker #4: well. Yeah, Michael.
Philip Mays: Yeah, Michael. So probably the easiest way to think about kind of where we stand in the runway is, as John mentioned, 20% of total undepreciated assets. So at end of the year, that would've been $770 million, so 20%, $155 to $160 million. The portfolio had $130 million or so outstanding. So, you know, kind of runway for another $25 to $30 million on top of what was outstanding at the end of the year.
Philip Mays: Yeah, Michael. So probably the easiest way to think about kind of where we stand in the runway is, as John mentioned, 20% of total undepreciated assets. So at end of the year, that would've been $770 million, so 20%, $155 to $160 million. The portfolio had $130 million or so outstanding. So, you know, kind of runway for another $25 to $30 million on top of what was outstanding at the end of the year.
Speaker #5: So probably the easiest way to think about kind of where we stand in the runway is John mentioned 20% of total undepreciated assets. So at the end of the year, that would have been $770 million.
Speaker #5: So 20% is $155 million, $160 million. The portfolio had $130 million or so outstanding, so kind of runway for another $25 million, $30 million on top of what was outstanding at the end of the year.
Michael Goldsmith: Helpful. Thanks for that. And then my follow-up is you continue to reduce your exposure to some of, like, the tenants that aren't in favor. Walgreens has moved considerably down the list. I guess, just where do you stand with that? Is there more work to do? Are you happy with where you're at? Just trying to get a sense of, you know, early at the end of that activity, or is there just a little bit more to do? I just thought you-
Michael Goldsmith: Helpful. Thanks for that. And then my follow-up is you continue to reduce your exposure to some of, like, the tenants that aren't in favor. Walgreens has moved considerably down the list. I guess, just where do you stand with that? Is there more work to do? Are you happy with where you're at? Just trying to get a sense of, you know, early at the end of that activity, or is there just a little bit more to do? I just thought you-
Speaker #3: Helpful. Thanks for that. And then my follow-up is: you continue to reduce your exposure to the tenants that aren't in favor. Walgreens has moved considerably down the list, I guess.
Speaker #3: Just where do you stand with that? Is there more work to do? Are you happy with where you're at? Just trying to get a sense of are we at the end of that activity or is there just a little bit more to
Speaker #3: do? No, there's definitely. I just thought you said. Thanks.
John Albright: No, there def-
John Albright: No, there def-
Michael Goldsmith: Thanks.
Michael Goldsmith: Thanks.
John Albright: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, there's definitely a little, little more to do, and, and we're now actively on selling additional Walgreens now. And so we'll, we'll continue chipping away at it, and it'll be, you know, gone at, at some point. But now that we've gotten it, you know, way down the list, is, you know, not as sort of, like, super focused on it. We just wanna take our time and find the right, right buyers and not just sell it just to sell it. So we'll, we'll take the cash flow and, and be prudent about selling them, but we're working on continuing that sales process.
John Albright: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, there's definitely a little, little more to do, and, and we're now actively on selling additional Walgreens now. And so we'll, we'll continue chipping away at it, and it'll be, you know, gone at, at some point. But now that we've gotten it, you know, way down the list, is, you know, not as sort of, like, super focused on it. We just wanna take our time and find the right, right buyers and not just sell it just to sell it. So we'll, we'll take the cash flow and, and be prudent about selling them, but we're working on continuing that sales process.
Speaker #4: Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. There's definitely a little more to do and we're actively on selling an additional Walgreens now. And so we'll continue chipping away at it and it'll be gone at some point.
Speaker #4: But now that we've gotten it way down the list, it's not as sort of super focused on it. We just want to take our time and find the right buyers and not just sell it just to sell it.
Speaker #4: So we'll take the cash flow and be prudent about selling them, but we're working on continuing that sales
Speaker #4: process. Nice job.
Michael Goldsmith: Nice job. Good luck in 2026.
Michael Goldsmith: Nice job. Good luck in 2026.
Speaker #3: Good luck in 2026.
Speaker #4: Thanks,
John Albright: Thanks, Michael.
John Albright: Thanks, Michael.
Speaker #4: Michael. And our next question will be
Operator: Our next question will be coming from Jay Kornreich of Cantor Fitzgerald. Your line is open, Jay.
Operator: Our next question will be coming from Jay Kornreich of Cantor Fitzgerald. Your line is open, Jay.
Speaker #2: Coming from Jay Cornridge of Cancer Fitzgerald, your line is open, Jay.
Speaker #6: Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking the question. I guess just following you up on that first question about the 20% threshold for the loan investments.
Jay Kornreich: Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking the question. I guess just following up on that first question about the 20% threshold for, you know, the loan investments. So that's really been such a strong source of growth for you guys and continues to be. And as, you know, a large swath of the investments this past year was focused on that. So I guess, even though you've outlined how much more room you have to the 20%, I mean, why not push much greater beyond that 20% threshold? Do you guys, I guess, consider doing that? Do you wanna do that as you think about your opportunities in 2026?
Jay Kornreich: Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking the question. I guess just following up on that first question about the 20% threshold for, you know, the loan investments. So that's really been such a strong source of growth for you guys and continues to be. And as, you know, a large swath of the investments this past year was focused on that. So I guess, even though you've outlined how much more room you have to the 20%, I mean, why not push much greater beyond that 20% threshold? Do you guys, I guess, consider doing that? Do you wanna do that as you think about your opportunities in 2026?
Speaker #6: That's really been such a strong source of growth for you guys and continues to be. And as a large swath of the investments this past year was focused on that, so I guess even though you've outlined how much more room you have for the 20%, I mean, why not push much greater beyond that 20% threshold?
Speaker #6: Do you guys I guess consider doing that? Do you want to do that as you think about your opportunities in
Speaker #6: 2026? No, I don't think we—I mean,
John Albright: No, I don't think we... I mean, certainly we, we could. I mean, there's enough volume out there, but it's really, you know, not wanting to, you know, flip the script, if you will, as far as, you know, our, primary source of the business, which is the net lease properties, core properties. So this, this business has been, you know, fantastic. It gets us in deeper into, developer relationships and tenant relationships, and, it, it provides us a source of, you know, future net lease investments. And, it's very much complementary, but, don't want it to be, you know, sort of a, a distraction.
John Albright: No, I don't think we... I mean, certainly we, we could. I mean, there's enough volume out there, but it's really, you know, not wanting to, you know, flip the script, if you will, as far as, you know, our, primary source of the business, which is the net lease properties, core properties. So this, this business has been, you know, fantastic. It gets us in deeper into, developer relationships and tenant relationships, and, it, it provides us a source of, you know, future net lease investments. And, it's very much complementary, but, don't want it to be, you know, sort of a, a distraction.
Speaker #4: certainly we could. I mean, there's enough volume out there, but it's really not wanting to flip the script, if you will, as far as our primary source of the business, which is the NetLease.
Speaker #4: Properties, core properties, so this business has been fantastic. It gets us deeper into developer relationships and tenant relationships. And it provides us a source of future NetLease investments.
Speaker #4: And it's very much complementary, but I don't want it to be sort of a...
Speaker #4: distraction. Okay.
Jay Kornreich: Okay. I appreciate that. And then just one follow-up. You talked about some of the capital raising you did in Q4, and I guess I wanted to talk about the $10 million on the ATM that you guys tapped. And I was just curious about how you think about deploying more equity capital at these current stock prices. I guess, assessing your cost of equity, I'm assuming that's really being more used for the higher yield divestment loans. So just curious how you think about, you know, deal spreads relative to your cost of capital versus the investment loans, just how you target that and think about issuing more.
Jay Kornreich: Okay. I appreciate that. And then just one follow-up. You talked about some of the capital raising you did in Q4, and I guess I wanted to talk about the $10 million on the ATM that you guys tapped. And I was just curious about how you think about deploying more equity capital at these current stock prices. I guess, assessing your cost of equity, I'm assuming that's really being more used for the higher yield divestment loans. So just curious how you think about, you know, deal spreads relative to your cost of capital versus the investment loans, just how you target that and think about issuing more.
Speaker #6: I appreciate that. And then just one follow-up. You talked about some of the capital raising you did in the fourth quarter. And I guess I wanted to talk about the $10 million on the ATM that you attacked.
Speaker #6: And I was just curious about how you think about deploying more equity capital at these current stock prices. I guess assessing your cost of equity, I'm assuming that's really being more used for the higher yield divestment loans.
Speaker #6: So I'm just curious how you think about deal spreads relative to your cost of capital versus the investment loans, just how you target that and think about issuing more.
Speaker #4: Yeah. I mean, we'll be prudent about it, but clearly, as you mentioned, that most of it is to find these highly accretive investments. And so even though the stock price is not kind of where we'd like it, it does work.
John Albright: Yeah, I mean, we'll, we'll be prudent about it, but clearly, as you, as you mentioned, that, you know, it, most of it is to to fund these highly accretive investments. And so even though the stock price is not kind of where we'd like it, it does work. The math does work. And certainly, you know, as you've seen with, with many companies, that, you know, investors, you know, seem to have a lot more interest in, in companies where there's more liquidity and ability. And so, you know, a lot if you think about it, we bought back a lot of stock last year, and, you know, we're, you know, in essence, reissuing, you know, some of those, those shares. So, you know, it's not any sort of, you know, massive dilution sort of activity.
John Albright: Yeah, I mean, we'll, we'll be prudent about it, but clearly, as you, as you mentioned, that, you know, it, most of it is to to fund these highly accretive investments. And so even though the stock price is not kind of where we'd like it, it does work. The math does work. And certainly, you know, as you've seen with, with many companies, that, you know, investors, you know, seem to have a lot more interest in, in companies where there's more liquidity and ability. And so, you know, a lot if you think about it, we bought back a lot of stock last year, and, you know, we're, you know, in essence, reissuing, you know, some of those, those shares. So, you know, it's not any sort of, you know, massive dilution sort of activity.
Speaker #4: The math does work. And certainly, as you've seen with many companies, that investors seem to have a lot more interest in companies where there's more liquidity and ability.
Speaker #4: And so a lot of you think about it. We bought back a lot of stock last year. And we're in essence reissuing some of those shares.
Speaker #4: So it's not any sort of massive dilution sort of activity. It's just being prudent with funding some of these very accretive
John Albright: It's just being prudent with funding, you know, some of these very accretive investments.
John Albright: It's just being prudent with funding, you know, some of these very accretive investments.
Speaker #4: investments. Okay.
Jay Kornreich: Okay. All right, I'll hold it there. Thanks very much.
Jay Kornreich: Okay. All right, I'll hold it there. Thanks very much.
Speaker #6: All right. I'll hold it there. Thanks very much.
Speaker #4: Sure. And
John Albright: Sure.
John Albright: Sure.
Operator: Our next question will be coming from Wesley Golladay of Baird. Your line is open, Wesley.
Speaker #2: Our next question will be coming from Wesley Gallaudet of Baird. Your line is open.
Operator: Our next question will be coming from Wesley Golladay of Baird. Your line is open, Wesley.
Speaker #2: Wesley. Hey, yeah.
Philip Mays: Hey, yeah, good morning, everyone. Just a question on the dividend. You definitely raised it again, and when you think about that, is that mainly driven by the earnings growth that you have and having to pay out a dividend that's a little bit higher? And why not try and retain more cash flow?
Wesley Golladay: Hey, yeah, good morning, everyone. Just a question on the dividend. You definitely raised it again, and when you think about that, is that mainly driven by the earnings growth that you have and having to pay out a dividend that's a little bit higher? And why not try and retain more cash flow?
Speaker #7: Good morning, everyone. Just a question on the dividend. You definitely raised it again. And when you think about that, is that mainly driven by the earnings growth that you have and having to pay out a dividend that's a little bit higher?
Speaker #7: And why not try and retain more cash?
Speaker #7: And why not try and retain more cash flow? Phil, I'll let you address
John Albright: Phil, I'll let you address that.
John Albright: Phil, I'll let you address that.
Speaker #4: that. Yeah.
Philip Mays: Yeah. So with earnings growth, but also just taxable income growth. So that kind of balanced the two. I didn't catch the last part of your question there, Wes.
Philip Mays: Yeah. So with earnings growth, but also just taxable income growth. So that kind of balanced the two. I didn't catch the last part of your question there, Wes.
Speaker #5: So it was earnings growth, but also just taxable income growth. So that kind of balanced the two. I didn't catch the last part of your question there.
Speaker #5: Wes. Oh, just saying
Wesley Golladay: Oh, just seeing why, why basically increase because you had to pay it out, just because, you know, you're issuing stock here, just why not just retain more cash flow versus raise the dividend, was the question.
Wesley Golladay: Oh, just seeing why, why basically increase because you had to pay it out, just because, you know, you're issuing stock here, just why not just retain more cash flow versus raise the dividend, was the question.
Speaker #7: why basically increase because you had to pay it out just because you're issuing stock here? Just why not just retain more cash flow versus raise the dividend was the
Speaker #7: question?
Speaker #5: Yeah. A lot of it's growth and
Philip Mays: Yeah, it's a lot of it's, you know, growth and taxable income. You know, when you think about the loan portfolio, right, there's no depreciation that goes with that. So, even though it's 20% of total assets and the properties make up more, there is no kind of tax cover or depreciation to go with it, so it does help drive taxable income up. So the raise was really just to kind of be where we need to be to pay out taxable income.
Philip Mays: Yeah, it's a lot of it's, you know, growth and taxable income. You know, when you think about the loan portfolio, right, there's no depreciation that goes with that. So, even though it's 20% of total assets and the properties make up more, there is no kind of tax cover or depreciation to go with it, so it does help drive taxable income up. So the raise was really just to kind of be where we need to be to pay out taxable income.
Speaker #5: taxable income. When you think about the loan portfolio, right, there's no depreciation that goes with that. So even though it's 20% of total assets and the properties make up more, there is no kind of tax cover or depreciation to go with it.
Speaker #5: So, it does help drive taxable income up. So, the raise was really just to kind of be where we need to be to pay out taxable.
Speaker #7: Got it. That makes sense. One question on the loan where you have the developer. For the phase one, are you starting to see any lot sales there?
Wesley Golladay: Got it. That makes sense. One question on the loan where you have the developer for the phase one. Are you starting to see any lot sales there, and when can you expect to get repaid? And then a follow-up would be, would you expect the second loan to start funding before the first one starts paying off?
Wesley Golladay: Got it. That makes sense. One question on the loan where you have the developer for the phase one. Are you starting to see any lot sales there, and when can you expect to get repaid? And then a follow-up would be, would you expect the second loan to start funding before the first one starts paying off?
Speaker #7: And when can you expect to get repaid? And then a follow-up would be would you expect the second loan to start funding before the first one starts paying
Speaker #7: off? Yeah.
John Albright: Yeah, I mean, the loan's already starting to be repaid as lot sales are happening. And it's really going to the senior participation we sold off. And so I would not—the loan that we have out now won't be fully repaid by the time that the second portion is funded. But you can expect, you know, really the activity on the repayment will probably come more to us, you know, late spring. So it'll really, really be going to the first mortgage sort of participation first.
John Albright: Yeah, I mean, the loan's already starting to be repaid as lot sales are happening. And it's really going to the senior participation we sold off. And so I would not—the loan that we have out now won't be fully repaid by the time that the second portion is funded. But you can expect, you know, really the activity on the repayment will probably come more to us, you know, late spring. So it'll really, really be going to the first mortgage sort of participation first.
Speaker #4: I mean, the loan's already starting to be repaid. As lot sales are happening, and it's really going to it is going to the senior participation.
Speaker #4: We sold off. And so I would not the loan that we have out now won't be fully repaid by the time that the second portion is funded.
Speaker #4: But you can expect really the activity on the repayment will probably come more to us late spring. So it'll really be going to the first mortgage sort of participation
Speaker #4: first. Okay.
Wesley Golladay: Okay, thanks for that. And then I guess when you look at your pipeline of potential loans, what are you seeing in there? I mean, you have a big residential loan here. Do you have other sectors that you're looking at, just to diversify it a bit?
Wesley Golladay: Okay, thanks for that. And then I guess when you look at your pipeline of potential loans, what are you seeing in there? I mean, you have a big residential loan here. Do you have other sectors that you're looking at, just to diversify it a bit?
Speaker #7: Thanks for that. And then, I guess, when you look at your pipeline of potential loans, what are you seeing in there? I mean, you have a big residential loan here.
Speaker #7: Do you have other sectors that you're looking at, just to diversify it a bit?
Speaker #7: bit? Yeah.
John Albright: Yeah. So, we're really pleased with the pipeline for sure. You know, we're talking about more kind of grocery-anchored development and also investment-grade credit development with, you know, terrific tenants and new relationships. It's old relationships, but new relationships for Pine. And so, we're very excited as we continue to work on the pipeline. So more to come.
John Albright: Yeah. So, we're really pleased with the pipeline for sure. You know, we're talking about more kind of grocery-anchored development and also investment-grade credit development with, you know, terrific tenants and new relationships. It's old relationships, but new relationships for Pine. And so, we're very excited as we continue to work on the pipeline. So more to come.
Speaker #4: So we're really pleased with the pipeline for sure. We're talking about more kind of grocery-anchored development and also investment-grade credit, development with terrific tenants and new relationships it's old relationships, but new relationships for Pine.
Speaker #4: And so we're very excited as we continue to work on the pipeline. So more to come.
Wesley Golladay: Awesome. Okay, thanks, guys.
Wesley Golladay: Awesome. Okay, thanks, guys.
Speaker #7: guys. Awesome. Okay. Thanks,
Speaker #4: Thank
John Albright: Thank you.
John Albright: Thank you.
Speaker #4: you.
Speaker #2: And our next question will come from RJ Milligan, of Raymond James. Your line is open.
Operator: Our next question will come from R.J. Milligan of Raymond James. Your line is open.
Operator: Our next question will come from R.J. Milligan of Raymond James. Your line is open.
Speaker #8: Hey, good morning, guys. Just want to follow up on the loan book. John Longer Term, as some of these loans are paid off, do you expect to continue to redeploy that capital and maintain that 20% allocation over the next several years, or do you expect that to come down over
R.J. Milligan: Hey, good morning, guys. Just want to follow up on the loan book. John, longer term, as some of these loans are paid off, do you expect to continue to redeploy that capital and maintain that 20% allocation over the next several years, or do you expect that to come down over time?
R.J. Milligan: Hey, good morning, guys. Just want to follow up on the loan book. John, longer term, as some of these loans are paid off, do you expect to continue to redeploy that capital and maintain that 20% allocation over the next several years, or do you expect that to come down over time?
Speaker #8: time? No, we intend and see the Thanks, RJ.
John Albright: Thanks, R.J. No, we intend and see the opportunity to keep it at that 20%. You know, the pipeline is very strong right now. So, as loans burn off, they will be, we fully intend them to be refilled.
John Albright: Thanks, R.J. No, we intend and see the opportunity to keep it at that 20%. You know, the pipeline is very strong right now. So, as loans burn off, they will be, we fully intend them to be refilled.
Speaker #4: opportunity to keep it at that 20%. The pipeline is very strong right now. So as loans burn off, they will be we fully intend them to be
Speaker #4: refilled. Got it.
R.J. Milligan: Got it. So this is a longer term, you know, 20% allocation part of the Pine strategy?
R.J. Milligan: Got it. So this is a longer term, you know, 20% allocation part of the Pine strategy?
Speaker #8: So, this is a longer-term 20% allocation, part of the Pine strategy? Great.
John Albright: Correct.
John Albright: Correct.
R.J. Milligan: Great. And then, Phil, I just wanted some housekeeping on Q4. Obviously, a pretty big number and beat relative to consensus. I think there may have been some one-time items in the Q4. I was wondering if maybe you could sort of talk about those and sort of how we get to a good run rate going into Q1 of this year.
R.J. Milligan: Great. And then, Phil, I just wanted some housekeeping on Q4. Obviously, a pretty big number and beat relative to consensus. I think there may have been some one-time items in the Q4. I was wondering if maybe you could sort of talk about those and sort of how we get to a good run rate going into Q1 of this year.
Speaker #8: And then Correct. Phil, I just had wanted some housekeeping on fourth quarter. Obviously, a pretty big number and beat relative to consensus. I think there may have been some one-time items in the fourth quarter.
Speaker #8: I was wondering maybe you could sort of talk about those and sort of how we get to a good run rate going into first quarter of this year.
Speaker #8: I was wondering if maybe you could sort of talk about those and sort of how we get to a good run rate going into first quarter of this.
Speaker #5: Yeah, thanks, RJ. There are several one-time items in there, and just a good way to see it is in one of our schedules— the debt-to-EBITDA. We have a line item that says 'non-recurring items' in there.
Philip Mays: Yeah. Thanks, R.J. There's several one-time items in there. And just, you know, a good way to see it is when we, in one of our schedules, the debt to EBITDA, we have a line item that says non-recurring items in there, and it was a little over $300,000 for the quarter. That's primarily the management fees that I talked about on my prepared remarks that are going away, and then also a prepayment penalty we got from one of the loans that paid off early that made up that $300,000 and some thousand. So that's a couple of cents that's non-recurring. And then also, keep in mind, the Q4 doesn't have the full burden of the prep outstanding and the management fee that goes with that.
Philip Mays: Yeah. Thanks, R.J. There's several one-time items in there. And just, you know, a good way to see it is when we, in one of our schedules, the debt to EBITDA, we have a line item that says non-recurring items in there, and it was a little over $300,000 for the quarter. That's primarily the management fees that I talked about on my prepared remarks that are going away, and then also a prepayment penalty we got from one of the loans that paid off early that made up that $300,000 and some thousand. So that's a couple of cents that's non-recurring. And then also, keep in mind, the Q4 doesn't have the full burden of the prep outstanding and the management fee that goes with that.
Speaker #5: And it was a little over $300,000 for the quarter. That's primarily the management fees that I talked about in my prepared remarks that are going away.
Speaker #5: And then also prepayment penalty we got from one of the loans that paid off early that made up that 300-some thousand. So that's a couple of cents that non-recurring.
Speaker #5: And then also keep in mind the fourth quarter, it doesn't have the full burden of the prep outstanding. And the management fee that goes with that.
Philip Mays: So, the $0.54, if you, if you take it down for all those items, are probably $0.50, $0.51, on a run rate at the end of the quarter.
Speaker #5: So the 54 cents, if you take it down for all those items, you're probably 50, 51 cents. On a run rate at the end of the
Speaker #5: So the 54 cents, if you take it down for all those items, you're probably 50, 51 cents. On a run rate at the end of the quarter.
Philip Mays: So, the $0.54, if you, if you take it down for all those items, are probably $0.50, $0.51, on a run rate at the end of the quarter.
Speaker #8: Great. Makes sense. Thanks, guys.
R.J. Milligan: Great. Makes sense. Thanks, guys.
R.J. Milligan: Great. Makes sense. Thanks, guys.
Speaker #4: Thank
John Albright: Thank you.
John Albright: Thank you.
Speaker #4: You. And our next question will
Operator: Our next question will be coming from Gaurav Mehta of Alliance Global Partners. Your line is open, Gaurav.
Operator: Our next question will be coming from Gaurav Mehta of Alliance Global Partners. Your line is open, Gaurav.
Speaker #2: be coming from Gaurav Mehta, of Alliance Global Partners. Your line is open, Gaurav.
Speaker #9: Yeah. Thank you. Good morning. I wanted to follow up on the balance sheet and wondering if you could comment on your leverage expectations in
Gaurav Mehta: Yeah, thank you. Good morning. I wanted to follow up on the balance sheet, and wondering if you would comment on your leverage expectations in 2026.
Gaurav Mehta: Yeah, thank you. Good morning. I wanted to follow up on the balance sheet, and wondering if you would comment on your leverage expectations in 2026.
Speaker #9: 2026. I mean, we're pretty happy.
John Albright: Phil?
John Albright: Phil?
Speaker #4: Phil? Yeah.
Philip Mays: Yeah, I mean, we're, we're pretty happy with where we're currently stand. You know, and we're in a nice pricing tier on our debt. So I think, you know, kind of where we're currently at is, is about where, you know, we expect it to run for the year, but obviously that depends on the opportunities we see.
Philip Mays: Yeah, I mean, we're, we're pretty happy with where we're currently stand. You know, and we're in a nice pricing tier on our debt. So I think, you know, kind of where we're currently at is, is about where, you know, we expect it to run for the year, but obviously that depends on the opportunities we see.
Speaker #5: With where we're currently standing, and we're in a nice pricing tier on our debt, I think kind of where we're currently at is about where we expect it to run for the year.
Speaker #5: But obviously, that depends on the opportunities we see.
Speaker #9: Okay, second follow-up on the investment opportunities. In the prepared remarks, you commented on following the barbell approach in '26. Just wondering if you could comment on, I guess, the opportunities that you're seeing both on the investment grade and on the investment grade part of the portfolio for acquisitions.
Gaurav Mehta: Okay. Second follow-up on, on the investment opportunities. You, in the prepared remarks, you, commented on following the barbells, approach in, 2026. Just wondering if you could comment on, on, I guess, the opportunities that you're seeing, both on the investment grade and non-investment grade, part of the portfolio for acquisitions.
Gaurav Mehta: Okay. Second follow-up on, on the investment opportunities. You, in the prepared remarks, you, commented on following the barbells, approach in, 2026. Just wondering if you could comment on, on, I guess, the opportunities that you're seeing, both on the investment grade and non-investment grade, part of the portfolio for acquisitions.
Speaker #4: Yeah. We're very excited about some of the opportunities we see on the NetLease side where we have the ability to possibly bring in new investment-grade credits further up into the top five, top 10 tenancy.
John Albright: Yeah, we're very excited about, you know, some of the opportunities we see on the net lease side, where we have the ability to possibly bring in new investment grade credits further up into the top five, top ten tenancy. And so, we're really, you know, focused on that. And so, you know, we have a good portfolio that, you know, opportunities that we're looking at right now. So pretty excited about, you know, what the composition of the net lease portfolio this year.
John Albright: Yeah, we're very excited about, you know, some of the opportunities we see on the net lease side, where we have the ability to possibly bring in new investment grade credits further up into the top five, top ten tenancy. And so, we're really, you know, focused on that. And so, you know, we have a good portfolio that, you know, opportunities that we're looking at right now. So pretty excited about, you know, what the composition of the net lease portfolio this year.
Speaker #4: And so we're really focused on that. And so we have a good portfolio that opportunities that we're looking at right now. So pretty excited about the composition of the NetLease portfolio this
Speaker #4: year. All right.
Philip Mays: All right. Thank you, guys. Go ahead.
Gaurav Mehta: All right. Thank you, guys. Go ahead.
Speaker #9: Thank you. That's all I
Speaker #9: had. Your next question will be coming from
Operator: Our next question will be coming from Jason Weaver of Jones Trading. Your line is open, Jason.
Operator: Our next question will be coming from Jason Weaver of Jones Trading. Your line is open, Jason.
Speaker #2: Jason Weaver, of Jones Trading. Your line is open,
Speaker #2: Jason. Hey, good morning, guys.
Jason Weaver: Hey, good morning, guys, and congrats on a big year in 2025.
Jason Weaver: Hey, good morning, guys, and congrats on a big year in 2025.
Speaker #10: Congrats on a big year in '25.
Speaker #4: Thank you.
John Albright: Thank you.
John Albright: Thank you.
Jason Weaver: First on the acquisition and disposition guide, this is down a lot versus 25, with the capital base growing. Is there anything we can read into that? It's just, you know, just taking from a point of conservatism. Is it some sort of hesitance about market conditions, or is there something else that's out there?
Speaker #10: First, on the acquisition and disposition guide, this is down a lot versus '25, with the capital-based growing. Is there anything we can read into that?
Jason Weaver: First on the acquisition and disposition guide, this is down a lot versus 25, with the capital base growing. Is there anything we can read into that? It's just, you know, just taking from a point of conservatism. Is it some sort of hesitance about market conditions, or is there something else that's out there?
Speaker #10: It's just taking from a point of conservatism. Is it some sort of hesitance about market conditions, or is there something else that's out
Speaker #10: there? Yeah.
John Albright: Yeah, you know, we just want to be, you know, really have a cadence that, you know, something we feel very, very comfortable hitting without having such a big number that you feel like you're forced into buying things that maybe you're not too excited about. So we just want to be, you know, real careful on curating a super strong portfolio and not being forced into more commodity assets.
John Albright: Yeah, you know, we just want to be, you know, really have a cadence that, you know, something we feel very, very comfortable hitting without having such a big number that you feel like you're forced into buying things that maybe you're not too excited about. So we just want to be, you know, real careful on curating a super strong portfolio and not being forced into more commodity assets.
Speaker #4: We just want to be really have a cadence that's something we feel very, very comfortable hitting without having such a big number that you feel like you're forced into buying things that maybe you're not too excited about.
Speaker #4: So we just want to be real careful on curating a super strong portfolio and not being forced into more commodity
Speaker #4: assets. I got it.
Jason Weaver: I got it. That's fair enough. And then next, I wonder if you can clue us into the expected funding mix on any new investments and as well as the unfunded commitments, whether that will be done with some combination of ATM draw versus, you know, credit facility, credit facility drawdown, and, and sort of what mix thereof are you looking to target?
Jason Weaver: I got it. That's fair enough. And then next, I wonder if you can clue us into the expected funding mix on any new investments and as well as the unfunded commitments, whether that will be done with some combination of ATM draw versus, you know, credit facility, credit facility drawdown, and, and sort of what mix thereof are you looking to target?
Speaker #10: That's fair enough. And then next, I wonder, if you can clue us into the expected funding mix on any new investments and as well as the unfunded commitments, whether that will be done with some combination of ATM draw versus credit facility drawdown.
Speaker #10: And sort of what mix thereof are you looking to
Speaker #10: target? I'll just
John Albright: I'll just kind of start off and let Phil, you know, dive deeper. But, you know, clearly, our mix in the past probably is somewhat reflective of what's going to be in the future. And that's, you know, still recycling, still selling down, you know, non-core sort of credits, and using that for investments. And then obviously, we talked about a little bit of the loans naturally maturing and paying off. But then there'll be a mix of, perhaps the ATM and the line, but, you know, keeping everything pretty modest.
John Albright: I'll just kind of start off and let Phil, you know, dive deeper. But, you know, clearly, our mix in the past probably is somewhat reflective of what's going to be in the future. And that's, you know, still recycling, still selling down, you know, non-core sort of credits, and using that for investments. And then obviously, we talked about a little bit of the loans naturally maturing and paying off. But then there'll be a mix of, perhaps the ATM and the line, but, you know, keeping everything pretty modest.
Speaker #4: kind of start off and let Phil dive deeper. But clearly, our mix in the past probably is somewhat reflective of what's going to be in the future.
Speaker #4: And that's still recycling still selling down non-core sort of credits and using that for investments. And then obviously, we talked about a little bit of the loans naturally maturing and paying off.
Speaker #4: But then there'll be a mix of perhaps the ATM and the line, but keeping everything pretty.
Speaker #5: Yeah, I mean, John covered it already.
Philip Mays: Yeah, I mean, John covered it pretty well.
Philip Mays: Yeah, I mean, John covered it pretty well.
Speaker #5: well. All right.
Jason Weaver: All right. Thanks for that. All right, that's good color, guys. Appreciate it.
Jason Weaver: All right. Thanks for that. All right, that's good color, guys. Appreciate it.
Speaker #8: That's good color, guys. Appreciate it.
Speaker #2: And our next question will be coming from Craig Cacera of Lucid Capital Markets. Your line is open, Craig.
Operator: Our next question will be coming from Craig Kucera of Lucid Capital Markets. Your line is open, Craig.
Operator: Our next question will be coming from Craig Kucera of Lucid Capital Markets. Your line is open, Craig.
Craig Kucera: Thank you, and good morning, guys. Phil, you included the PIK interest earned in AFFO, and I, I understand that makes sense this quarter because there was hardly anything that wasn't collected in cash. Is that your expectation for the foreseeable future?
Speaker #8: Thank you. And good morning, guys. Phil, you included the pick interest earned in AFFO, and I understand that makes sense this quarter because there was hardly anything that wasn't collected in cash.
Craig Kucera: Thank you, and good morning, guys. Phil, you included the PIK interest earned in AFFO, and I, I understand that makes sense this quarter because there was hardly anything that wasn't collected in cash. Is that your expectation for the foreseeable future?
Speaker #8: Is that your expectation for the foreseeable future?
Philip Mays: Yeah, I think we'll stick with that. What we also did, Craig, just to be clear on how much PIK is in there, at the bottom of the table, we added a schedule that shows the cash interest and the PIK interest, and we'll continue to also include that, so you'll know exactly what is included. But just felt like that was an easier way to go.
Philip Mays: Yeah, I think we'll stick with that. What we also did, Craig, just to be clear on how much PIK is in there, at the bottom of the table, we added a schedule that shows the cash interest and the PIK interest, and we'll continue to also include that, so you'll know exactly what is included. But just felt like that was an easier way to go.
Speaker #5: with that. What we also did, Craig, just to be clear on how much pick is in there, at the bottom of the table, we added a schedule that shows the cash interest and the pick interest.
Speaker #5: And we'll continue to also include that. So you'll know exactly what is included. But just felt like that was an easier way to go.
Speaker #8: Yeah. No, that was helpful. I did see that. Changing gears, in your discussions with your developers that still have unfunded commitments, do you expect those guys to pull down most of that capital in 2026, or?
Craig Kucera: Yeah. No, that was, that was helpful. I did see that. Changing gears, you know, in your discussions with your developers that still have unfunded commitments, do you expect those guys to pull down most of that capital in 2026, or I know a lot of those loans mature later in 2027 and even 2028, but just some thoughts on that?
Craig Kucera: Yeah. No, that was, that was helpful. I did see that. Changing gears, you know, in your discussions with your developers that still have unfunded commitments, do you expect those guys to pull down most of that capital in 2026, or I know a lot of those loans mature later in 2027 and even 2028, but just some thoughts on that?
Speaker #8: I know a lot of those loans mature later in '27 and even '28, but just some thoughts on
Speaker #8: that.
Speaker #4: Yeah. We
John Albright: Yeah, we fully expect that those will be drawn down, for sure. It's part of the project, and as the project gets going, that's, you know, fully kind of specified for those needs.
John Albright: Yeah, we fully expect that those will be drawn down, for sure. It's part of the project, and as the project gets going, that's, you know, fully kind of specified for those needs.
Speaker #4: fully expect that those will be drawn down for sure. It's part of the project. And as the project gets going, that's fully kind of specified for those
Speaker #4: needs. Okay.
Craig Kucera: Okay, thank you. And in the schedule of your commercial loans, you mentioned that phase two in Austin has some conditions that are unmet. Can you give us some color on what that is and when you think those conditions might be met and the loan is funded?
Craig Kucera: Okay, thank you. And in the schedule of your commercial loans, you mentioned that phase two in Austin has some conditions that are unmet. Can you give us some color on what that is and when you think those conditions might be met and the loan is funded?
Speaker #8: Thank you. And in the schedule of your commercial loans, you mentioned that Phase Two in Austin has some conditions that are unmet. Can you give us some color on what that is and when you think those conditions might be met and the loan is—
Speaker #4: Yeah. funded? that.
John Albright: Yeah, I'll let Phil answer that.
John Albright: Yeah, I'll let Phil answer that.
Speaker #5: Yeah. So on the funding, probably 2Q. But keep in mind, as with the participation of 10. So just first phase, we sold off our kind of using round numbers, the first phase was 30 million, the second phase is 30 million.
Philip Mays: Yeah, so on the funding, probably Q2. But keep in mind, you know, as with the first phase, you know, we sold off a participation of $10 million. So just kind of using round numbers, the first phase was $30 million, the second phase is $30 million. We sold off a participation already for $10 million. There's likely to be another sell on that. And, you know, so altogether, you know, we might sell off another $10, $20, so the net hold might be closer to half. But yeah, probably late Q1, early Q2, for the second phase funding, and simultaneously with that, we'll also probably have some participation sale of $10 or $20, somewhere in that range.
Philip Mays: Yeah, so on the funding, probably Q2. But keep in mind, you know, as with the first phase, you know, we sold off a participation of $10 million. So just kind of using round numbers, the first phase was $30 million, the second phase is $30 million. We sold off a participation already for $10 million. There's likely to be another sell on that. And, you know, so altogether, you know, we might sell off another $10, $20, so the net hold might be closer to half. But yeah, probably late Q1, early Q2, for the second phase funding, and simultaneously with that, we'll also probably have some participation sale of $10 or $20, somewhere in that range.
Speaker #5: We sold off our participation already for $10. There's likely to be another sell on that. And so, altogether, we might sell off another $10, $20.
Speaker #5: So the net hold might be closer to half. But yeah, probably late first quarter, early second quarter, for the second phase funding. And simultaneously with that, we'll also probably have some participation sell of 10 or 20, somewhere in that
Speaker #5: range. Got it.
Craig Kucera: Got it. So, so that's in the guidance then?
Craig Kucera: Got it. So, so that's in the guidance then?
Speaker #8: So that's in the guidance then.
Philip Mays: Yes.
Philip Mays: Yes.
Craig Kucera: Okay. Appreciate that. And I guess when that first phase was initially structured, I think it was 17% for, like, 6 months and then dropped to 16 for 6. Once you sold that participation interest, it's now yielding north of 20%. Can you walk us through the math of how it adjusts, you know, net of the participation interest? Is there any change in the way that that loan is going to roll down?
Speaker #8: Okay, appreciate that, yes. And I guess when that first phase was initially structured, I think it was 17% for six months and then dropped to 16% for six.
Craig Kucera: Okay. Appreciate that. And I guess when that first phase was initially structured, I think it was 17% for, like, 6 months and then dropped to 16 for 6. Once you sold that participation interest, it's now yielding north of 20%. Can you walk us through the math of how it adjusts, you know, net of the participation interest? Is there any change in the way that that loan is going to roll down?
Speaker #8: And can you once you sold that participation interest, it's now yielding north of 20%. Can you walk us through the math of how it adjusts net of the participation interest?
Speaker #8: Is there any change in the way that that loan is going to roll down?
Philip Mays: The participation interest has a constant rate of 10%. And that, you know, it hyper amortizes, so that gets repaid first, and then we get repaid second. Is that helpful?
Philip Mays: The participation interest has a constant rate of 10%. And that, you know, it hyper amortizes, so that gets repaid first, and then we get repaid second. Is that helpful?
Speaker #5: The participation interest has a constant rate of 10%, and it hyperamortizes, so that gets repaid first. And then we get repaid second. Is that—
Speaker #5: helpful? Yeah.
Craig Kucera: Yeah, I'll probably just circle back to you offline just to make sure I'm getting the math right. And finally, you did mention you amended the loan this quarter. Was that just a loan extension, or can you just give some additional color on that loan?
Craig Kucera: Yeah, I'll probably just circle back to you offline just to make sure I'm getting the math right. And finally, you did mention you amended the loan this quarter. Was that just a loan extension, or can you just give some additional color on that loan?
Speaker #8: I'll probably just circle back to the offline just to make sure I'm getting the math right. And finally, you did mention you amended the loan this quarter.
Speaker #8: Was that just a loan extension, or can you just give us some additional color on that
Speaker #8: loan? Yeah.
Philip Mays: Yeah, it was just an extension.
Philip Mays: Yeah, it was just an extension.
Speaker #5: It was just an extension.
Speaker #8: Okay, all right. Thanks, guys. That's it for me. Appreciate it.
Craig Kucera: Okay. All right. Thanks, guys. That's it for me. Appreciate it.
Craig Kucera: Okay. All right. Thanks, guys. That's it for me. Appreciate it.
John Albright: Thanks.
John Albright: Thanks.
Speaker #2: And our next question will come from, thanks, John Masaka of B. Riley Securities. Your line is open.
Operator: ... And our next question will come from John Massocca of B. Riley Securities. Your line is open, John.
Operator: ... And our next question will come from John Massocca of B. Riley Securities. Your line is open, John.
Speaker #2: John. Good
John Massocca: Good morning.
John Massocca: Good morning.
Speaker #8: morning.
Speaker #4: Morning.
John Albright: Morning.
John Albright: Morning.
John Massocca: So, maybe just going back to guidance a little bit. You know, what's kind of the, it can be kind of broad ranges, but expected yield on the investment volume you're kind of putting into guidance, and I guess kind of implied in that question is: how do you see the mix in that expected volume being, you know, demarked between, you know, structured investments versus net lease investments?
John Massocca: So, maybe just going back to guidance a little bit. You know, what's kind of the, it can be kind of broad ranges, but expected yield on the investment volume you're kind of putting into guidance, and I guess kind of implied in that question is: how do you see the mix in that expected volume being, you know, demarked between, you know, structured investments versus net lease investments?
Speaker #8: So maybe just going back to guidance a little bit, what's kind of the—it can be kind of broad ranges—but expected yield on the investment volume you're kind of putting into guidance?
Speaker #8: And I guess kind of implied in that question is how do you see the mix in that expected volume being demarked between structured investments versus net lease investments?
Speaker #8: And I guess kind of implied in that question is how do you see the mix in that expected volume being demarked between structured investments versus net lease investments?
Speaker #5: Yeah. I think on the loan side, I talked earlier about the runway being 25 to 30 million and look, it could bounce around a little bit depending on when draws happen, when fundings happen and repayments.
Philip Mays: I think on the loan side, you know, I talked earlier about the runway being $25 to 30 million. Look, it could bounce around a little bit depending on when draws happen, when fundings happen, and repayments. But out of that, you know, out of the guidance, you should expect about that much to come from the loan side. And that will probably ramp up over the first half of the year. And then, you know, the balance of the guidance you can expect to be on the property side.
Philip Mays: I think on the loan side, you know, I talked earlier about the runway being $25 to 30 million. Look, it could bounce around a little bit depending on when draws happen, when fundings happen, and repayments. But out of that, you know, out of the guidance, you should expect about that much to come from the loan side. And that will probably ramp up over the first half of the year. And then, you know, the balance of the guidance you can expect to be on the property side.
Speaker #5: But out of that, out of the guidance, you should expect about that much to come from the loan side. And that will probably ramp up over the first half of the year.
Speaker #5: And then the balance of the guidance, you can expect to be on the property.
Speaker #5: side. And kind of where do you
John Massocca: Kind of where do you think that puts you from a, from a yield perspective? Or where do you think yields are today for structured loans and, you know, the type of net lease investments you're looking at?
John Massocca: Kind of where do you think that puts you from a, from a yield perspective? Or where do you think yields are today for structured loans and, you know, the type of net lease investments you're looking at?
Speaker #8: Where do you think that puts you from a yield perspective, or where do you think yields are today for structured loans and the type of net lease investments you're looking at?
Speaker #5: Yeah, so in the current book and what's expected to fund, the loan yields really are not too dissimilar to what we've done in the past.
Philip Mays: Yeah. So, you know, in the current book and what's expected to fund, you know-
Philip Mays: Yeah. So, you know, in the current book and what's expected to fund, you know-
John Albright: You know, the yields really are not too dissimilar to what we've done in the past, so there's no-- there really is no tightening in the market, if you will. Even though, you know, there's a lot of capital out there, as we all know. It's just that, you know, the flexibility structure and the quickness of how we can react to opportunities, you know, leads to the little bit higher rates that we're able to achieve.
John Albright: You know, the yields really are not too dissimilar to what we've done in the past, so there's no-- there really is no tightening in the market, if you will. Even though, you know, there's a lot of capital out there, as we all know. It's just that, you know, the flexibility structure and the quickness of how we can react to opportunities, you know, leads to the little bit higher rates that we're able to achieve.
Speaker #5: So there's really no tightening in the market, if you will. Even though there's a lot of capital out there, as we all know, it's just that the flexibility, structure, and the quickness of how we can react to opportunities leads to these a little bit higher rates that we're able to achieve.
Speaker #5: Yeah, the rate at the end of the quarter is a decent rate to use for the balance of the—
Philip Mays: Yeah, the rate at the end of the quarter is a decent rate to use, for the balance of the year.
Philip Mays: Yeah, the rate at the end of the quarter is a decent rate to use, for the balance of the year.
Speaker #5: year. Okay.
John Massocca: Okay. And I guess on the net lease side, kind of where are you seeing cap rates today? I know you closed something subsequent to quarter end at an 8.5, but is that maybe a little higher than what's, you know, your target in the market today, or is that kind of indicative of what you could invest at?
John Massocca: Okay. And I guess on the net lease side, kind of where are you seeing cap rates today? I know you closed something subsequent to quarter end at an 8.5, but is that maybe a little higher than what's, you know, your target in the market today, or is that kind of indicative of what you could invest at?
Speaker #8: And I guess on the net lease side, kind of where are you seeing cap rates today? I know you closed something subsequent to quarter-end at an 8.5%, but is that maybe a little higher than what's your target in the market today, or is that kind of indicative of what you can invest at?
John Albright: No, you know, on the, on the more, you know, investment-grade sort of properties that we've been looking at, you know, they'll be lower than what we just did on that acquisition in Aspen. But, you know, very similar. Very similar to the Sam's Club we purchased and so forth. So, I would say on cap rate direction, you know, certainly for quality properties, you know, it's still very tight.
John Albright: No, you know, on the, on the more, you know, investment-grade sort of properties that we've been looking at, you know, they'll be lower than what we just did on that acquisition in Aspen. But, you know, very similar. Very similar to the Sam's Club we purchased and so forth. So, I would say on cap rate direction, you know, certainly for quality properties, you know, it's still very tight.
Speaker #4: No. On the more investment-grade sort of properties that we've been looking at, they'll be lower than what we just did on that acquisition in Aspen, but very similar to the Sam's Club we purchased and so forth.
Speaker #4: So I would say, on cap rate direction, certainly for quality properties, it's still very tight. But a lot, past five years, we may have made in the past, we'll look at really strong real estate, very strong MSAs, and maybe have a shorter lease duration.
John Albright: But, you know, a lot of, a lot of, you know, the investments we made, have made in the past, in the past five years, you know, we'll, we'll look at really strong real estate, you know, very strong MSAs and maybe have a shorter lease duration, where the likelihood of a tenant renewing is very high because the rental rates they're paying are very, very low, so they're almost like covered land plays. And we can get those at, you know, obviously higher yields than if it was like a fresh, you know, 15-year lease. And so that's where we like to, like to play, where we're picking up investment grade credits in large MSAs at way below market interest rates.
John Albright: But, you know, a lot of, a lot of, you know, the investments we made, have made in the past, in the past five years, you know, we'll, we'll look at really strong real estate, you know, very strong MSAs and maybe have a shorter lease duration, where the likelihood of a tenant renewing is very high because the rental rates they're paying are very, very low, so they're almost like covered land plays. And we can get those at, you know, obviously higher yields than if it was like a fresh, you know, 15-year lease. And so that's where we like to, like to play, where we're picking up investment grade credits in large MSAs at way below market interest rates.
Speaker #4: Where the likelihood of a tenant renewing is very high because the rental rates they are paying are very, very low. So they're almost like covered land plays, and we can get those at, obviously, higher yields than if it was, like, a fresh 15-year lease.
Speaker #4: And so that's where we like to play where we're picking up investment-grade credits in large MSAs that weigh below market interest rates. And so those cap rates will still be similar to kind of what we did last year as
John Albright: And so those cap rates will still be similar to kind of what we did last year as well.
John Albright: And so those cap rates will still be similar to kind of what we did last year as well.
Speaker #4: well. Okay.
John Massocca: Okay. I appreciate that color. And then maybe on the... You mentioned it in the context of the Austin structured investment, but are there opportunities for more participation, interest sales, on other structured loans in the portfolio or other deals that maybe are kind of contemplated in guidance?
John Massocca: Okay. I appreciate that color. And then maybe on the... You mentioned it in the context of the Austin structured investment, but are there opportunities for more participation, interest sales, on other structured loans in the portfolio or other deals that maybe are kind of contemplated in guidance?
Speaker #8: You mentioned it in the context of investment, but are there—the Austin structured opportunities for more participation interest sales on other structured loans in the portfolio, or other deals that maybe are kind of contemplated in—
Speaker #4: I mean, we could sell off a lot if we wanted to, but I mean, they're fantastic loans and we'd rather
John Albright: I mean, we could sell off, you know, a lot if we wanted to, but I mean, they're fantastic loans, and we'd rather, you know, hold them all, but we will certainly sell them off, sell senior participations to fund activity if we need to.
John Albright: I mean, we could sell off, you know, a lot if we wanted to, but I mean, they're fantastic loans, and we'd rather, you know, hold them all, but we will certainly sell them off, sell senior participations to fund activity if we need to.
Speaker #4: Hold them all. But we will certainly sell senior participations to fund activity if we need guidance to.
John Massocca: I guess, as it pertains to kind of as you're seeing the world today, is Austin's gonna be primarily where that comes from?
John Massocca: I guess, as it pertains to kind of as you're seeing the world today, is Austin's gonna be primarily where that comes from?
Speaker #8: I guess, as it pertains to kind of how you're seeing the world today, it's Austin that's going to be primarily where that comes from?
John Albright: I'm sorry, I missed that last point. Say, can you say it one more time?
Speaker #4: I'm sorry, I missed that last point. Can you say it one more
John Albright: I'm sorry, I missed that last point. Say, can you say it one more time?
Speaker #4: time?
John Massocca: Well, just, I mean, you mentioned kind of what you were expecting to do on the participation interest sales side-
John Massocca: Well, just, I mean, you mentioned kind of what you were expecting to do on the participation interest sales side-
Speaker #8: Well, just—I mean, you mentioned kind of
Speaker #8: What you were expecting to do on the participation interest sale side—with the Austin structured investment, is that kind of all that's really contemplated as we stand today?
John Albright: Yeah.
John Albright: Yeah.
John Massocca: with the Austin structured
John Massocca: with the Austin structured
John Albright: Yeah.
John Albright: Yeah.
John Massocca: -investment.
John Massocca: -investment.
John Albright: Yeah.
John Albright: Yeah.
John Massocca: Is that kind of all that's really contemplated as we stand today?
John Massocca: Is that kind of all that's really contemplated as we stand today?
Speaker #4: As we stand today—and that's as an accommodation, really—we're really doing it, them coming in early on. Otherwise, we wouldn't even want to sell that participation.
John Albright: As we stand today, and that's really, you know, we're really doing it as an accommodation for them, you know, coming in early on. Otherwise, you know, we wouldn't even want to sell that participation, but certainly want to be good counterparties and, you know, keep that participation investor, you know, there in case we'd like to do another one.
John Albright: As we stand today, and that's really, you know, we're really doing it as an accommodation for them, you know, coming in early on. Otherwise, you know, we wouldn't even want to sell that participation, but certainly want to be good counterparties and, you know, keep that participation investor, you know, there in case we'd like to do another one.
Speaker #4: But certainly want to be good counterparties and keep that participation investor there in case we'd like to.
Speaker #4: But certainly, we want to be good counterparties and keep that participation investor there in case we'd like to one day. Okay.
John Massocca: Okay. Makes sense. That's it for me. Thank you very much.
John Massocca: Okay. Makes sense. That's it for me. Thank you very much.
Speaker #8: Makes sense.
Speaker #8: That's it for me. Great.
John Albright: Great. Thank you.
John Albright: Great. Thank you.
Speaker #4: Thank
Speaker #4: you.
Operator: This concludes today's program. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
Operator: This concludes today's program. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
