Q4 2025 Doman Building Materials Group Ltd Earnings Call
Speaker #1: Greetings . And welcome to the doorman . Building Materials Group , fourth quarter and full year 2020 financial results conference call . At this time , all participants are in a listen only mode .
Operator: Greetings and welcome to the Doman Building Materials Group Q4 and full year 2025 Financial Results Conference Call. At this time, all participants are in listen-only mode. A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation. If anyone should require operator assistance, please press star zero on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference is being recorded. It's now my pleasure to introduce your host, Ali Mahdavi. Please go ahead.
Speaker #1: A question and answer session will follow the formal presentation If anyone should require operator assistance , please press Star Zero on your telephone keypad As a reminder , this conference is being recorded .
Speaker #1: It is now my pleasure to introduce your host , Ali Mahdavi . Please go ahead
Speaker #2: Thank you . Operator . Good morning , everyone , and thank you for joining us this morning for Doorman Building Materials , fourth quarter and full year 2020 financial results conference call .
Ali Mahdavi: Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us this morning for Doman Building Materials Q4 and full-year 2025 financial results conference call. Joining me this morning are Amar Doman, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and James Code, Chief Financial Officer. If you have not seen the news release, which was issued yesterday, it is available on the company's website at domanbm.com, as well as on SEDAR+, along with our MD&A and financial statements. I would also like to remind you that a replay of this call will be accessible until 20 March 2026. Following management's presentation of the 2025 Q4 and full-year results, we will conduct a Q&A session for analysts only. Instructions will be provided at that time for you to join the queue for questions.
Ali Mahdavi: Thank you, operator. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us this morning for Doman Building Materials Q4 and full-year 2025 financial results conference call. Joining me this morning are Amar Doman, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, and James Code, Chief Financial Officer. If you have not seen the news release, which was issued yesterday, it is available on the company's website at domanbm.com, as well as on SEDAR+, along with our MD&A and financial statements. I would also like to remind you that a replay of this call will be accessible until 20 March 2026. Following management's presentation of the 2025 Q4 and full-year results, we will conduct a Q&A session for analysts only. Instructions will be provided at that time for you to join the queue for questions.
Speaker #2: Joining me this morning are Amar Doman , chairman and Chief Executive officer . And James Code , chief financial officer If you have not seen the news release , which was issued yesterday , it is available on the company's website at dobin as well as on Cd4+ , along with our MDA and financial statements .
Speaker #2: I would also like to remind you that a replay of this call will be accessible until March 20, 2026. Following management's presentation of the 2025 fourth quarter and full year results, we will conduct a Q&A session for analysts only. Instructions will be provided at that time for you to join the queue for questions.
Speaker #2: Before we begin . We are required to provide the following statements regarding forward looking information , which is made on behalf of doorman building Materials Group limited and all of its representatives .
Ali Mahdavi: Before we begin, we are required to provide the following statements regarding forward-looking information, which is made on behalf of Doman Building Materials Group Ltd. and all of its representatives on this call. Remarks and answers to your questions today may contain forward-looking information about future events or the company's future performance. This information is subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual events or results to defer materially. Any information regarding forward-looking statements is made as of the date of this call, and the company does not undertake to update any forward-looking statements. Please read the forward-looking statements and risk factors in the MD&A as these outline the material factors which could cause or would cause actual results to defer. The company will not provide guidance regarding future earnings during today's call, and management does not anticipate providing guidance in future quarterly or interim communications with investors.
Ali Mahdavi: Before we begin, we are required to provide the following statements regarding forward-looking information, which is made on behalf of Doman Building Materials Group Ltd. and all of its representatives on this call. Remarks and answers to your questions today may contain forward-looking information about future events or the company's future performance. This information is subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual events or results to defer materially. Any information regarding forward-looking statements is made as of the date of this call, and the company does not undertake to update any forward-looking statements. Please read the forward-looking statements and risk factors in the MD&A as these outline the material factors which could cause or would cause actual results to defer. The company will not provide guidance regarding future earnings during today's call, and management does not anticipate providing guidance in future quarterly or interim communications with investors.
Speaker #2: On this call . Remarks and answers to your questions . Today may contain forward looking information about future events or the company's future performance .
Speaker #2: This information is subject to risks and uncertainties that may cause actual events or results to differ materially. Any information regarding forward-looking statements is made as of the date of this call, and the company does not undertake to update any forward-looking statements.
Speaker #2: Please read the forward looking statements and risk factors in the mDNA as these outline the material factors which could cause or could cause actual results to differ , the company will not provide guidance regarding future earnings during today's call , and management does not anticipate providing guidance in future quarterly or interim communications with investors .
Speaker #2: I'll now turn the call over to Amar.
Ali Mahdavi: I'll now turn the call over to Amar.
Ali Mahdavi: I'll now turn the call over to Amar.
Speaker #3: Thanks , and good morning , everybody . Thank you for joining us on today's call . Let me start by highlighting some of our key financial metrics , followed by some color on our operations during the fourth quarter .
Amar Doman: Thanks, Ali. Good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us on today's call. Let me start by highlighting some of our key financial metrics, followed by some color on our operations during Q4, and then I will hand the call over to Jay Code, who can review the numbers in further detail. 2025 presented itself with certain challenges which were not dissimilar to the prior year, with constant falling lumber pricing and other relevant economic headwinds. While we are not directly impacted by tariffs, the building material sector in general continued to navigate the effects of tariffs, fluctuating construction material pricing, elevated interest in mortgage rates, and even an uneven building activity across various regions. While these conditions created near-term pressure, our teams responded very well managing this.
Amar Doman: Thanks, Ali. Good morning, everybody. Thank you for joining us on today's call. Let me start by highlighting some of our key financial metrics, followed by some color on our operations during Q4, and then I will hand the call over to Jay Code, who can review the numbers in further detail. 2025 presented itself with certain challenges which were not dissimilar to the prior year, with constant falling lumber pricing and other relevant economic headwinds. While we are not directly impacted by tariffs, the building material sector in general continued to navigate the effects of tariffs, fluctuating construction material pricing, elevated interest in mortgage rates, and even an uneven building activity across various regions. While these conditions created near-term pressure, our teams responded very well managing this.
Speaker #3: And then I will hand the call over to Jcode, who can review the numbers in further detail. 2025 presented itself with certain challenges, which were not dissimilar to the prior year, with constantly falling lumber pricing and other relevant economic headwinds.
Speaker #3: While we are not directly impacted by tariffs , the building materials sector in general continued to navigate the effects of tariffs , fluctuating construction , material pricing , elevated interest in mortgage rates , and even and uneven building activity across various regions While these conditions created near-term pressure , our teams responded very well , managing this , we remain focused on what we can control Operational efficiency , customer service cost , disciplines , and safety .
Amar Doman: We remain focused on what we can control: operational efficiency, customer service, cost disciplines, and safety while positioning the business for long-term success. Despite the pricing movements across all construction materials categories in our portfolio on both sides of the border, we exited 2025 with strong performance across all our key financial metrics, including revenues, gross margin, EBITDA, and net income, while paying our shareholders a quarterly dividend of CAD 0.14 per common share or CAD 0.56 per common share on an annual basis. We are both pleased and proud of the company's performance throughout 2025, given the market conditions we had to work through.
Amar Doman: We remain focused on what we can control: operational efficiency, customer service, cost disciplines, and safety while positioning the business for long-term success. Despite the pricing movements across all construction materials categories in our portfolio on both sides of the border, we exited 2025 with strong performance across all our key financial metrics, including revenues, gross margin, EBITDA, and net income, while paying our shareholders a quarterly dividend of CAD 0.14 per common share or CAD 0.56 per common share on an annual basis. We are both pleased and proud of the company's performance throughout 2025, given the market conditions we had to work through.
Speaker #3: While positioning the business for long term success . Despite the pricing movements across all construction materials categories in our portfolio on both sides of the border , we exited 2025 with strong performance across all our key financial metrics , including revenues , gross margin , EBITDA and net income while paying our shareholders a quarterly dividend of $0.14 per common share , or $0.56 per common share , on an annual basis .
Speaker #3: We are both pleased and proud of the company's performance throughout 2025 , given the market conditions , we had to work through . Despite trends in volatility that at times presented us with challenges , we remain encouraged and pleased with the resilience of our diversified business model .
Amar Doman: Despite trends and volatility that at times presented us with challenges, we remain encouraged and pleased with the resilience of our diversified business model withstanding these cycles, resulting in Canadian revenues, gross margin, adjusted EBITDA, and net earnings totaling CAD 3.1 billion, CAD 505 million, CAD 256 million, and CAD 80 million respectively. Our ability to deliver consistent performance across a variety of market cycles results from our tireless focus on operations and to the many successful acquisitions we've completed throughout the years. Now, focusing on the most recent Q4 results, adjusting for normal seasonality, we remained active across all business divisions. Our ongoing cost management and focus on operational efficiencies enabled the company to demonstrate revenue performance while gross margin continued to be within our target range as well as EBITDA, and bottom lines.
Amar Doman: Despite trends and volatility that at times presented us with challenges, we remain encouraged and pleased with the resilience of our diversified business model withstanding these cycles, resulting in Canadian revenues, gross margin, adjusted EBITDA, and net earnings totaling CAD 3.1 billion, CAD 505 million, CAD 256 million, and CAD 80 million respectively. Our ability to deliver consistent performance across a variety of market cycles results from our tireless focus on operations and to the many successful acquisitions we've completed throughout the years. Now, focusing on the most recent Q4 results, adjusting for normal seasonality, we remained active across all business divisions. Our ongoing cost management and focus on operational efficiencies enabled the company to demonstrate revenue performance while gross margin continued to be within our target range as well as EBITDA, and bottom lines.
Speaker #3: Withstanding these cycles resulting in Canadian gross margin , adjusted EBITDA and net earnings totaling 3.1 billion $505,000,256 million 80 million , respectively . Our ability to deliver consistent performance across a variety of market cycles results from our tireless focus on operations and to the many successful acquisitions we've completed throughout the years Now focusing on the most recent fourth quarter results , adjusting for normal seasonality , we remained active across all business divisions .
Speaker #3: Our ongoing cost management and focus on operational efficiencies enabled the company to demonstrate revenue performance, while gross margin continued to be within our target range, as well as EBITDA and bottom lines.
Speaker #3: We are very proud of our financial performance and believe there is a lot to be gained from the strength and momentum which has resulted from our successes in recent years.
Amar Doman: We are very proud of our financial performance and believe there is a lot to be gained from the strength and momentum which has resulted from our successes in recent years. As a result of these efforts during Q4, we saw revenues coming in at CAD 644 million, gross margin at 16.6% or CAD 107.2 million, EBITDA amounting to CAD 44.3 million, net earnings of CAD 11 million, and lastly, our quarterly dividend of CAD 0.14 per share was again declared. We remain cautiously optimistic about the prospects ahead and look forward to further demonstrating the strength and leverage available in our business model as we continue to be well-positioned to take advantage of sensible growth opportunities.
Amar Doman: We are very proud of our financial performance and believe there is a lot to be gained from the strength and momentum which has resulted from our successes in recent years. As a result of these efforts during Q4, we saw revenues coming in at CAD 644 million, gross margin at 16.6% or CAD 107.2 million, EBITDA amounting to CAD 44.3 million, net earnings of CAD 11 million, and lastly, our quarterly dividend of CAD 0.14 per share was again declared. We remain cautiously optimistic about the prospects ahead and look forward to further demonstrating the strength and leverage available in our business model as we continue to be well-positioned to take advantage of sensible growth opportunities.
Speaker #3: As a result of these efforts , during the fourth quarter , we saw revenues coming in at 644 million , gross margin at 16.6% , or 107.2 million EBITDA , amounting to 44.3 million net earnings of 11 million .
Speaker #3: And lastly , our quarterly dividend of $0.14 per share was again declared . We remain cautiously optimistic about the prospects ahead and look forward to further demonstrating the strength and leverage available in our business model as we continue to be well positioned to take advantage of sensible growth opportunities .
Speaker #3: On the heels of successfully integrating recent acquisitions , our relentless focus on paying down debt and strengthening our balance sheet remains a priority , which will enable us to be in a strong position to take advantage of strategic opportunities Overall , 2026 is off to a decent start despite severe weather issues in some of our regions , which we're prepared to deal with .
Amar Doman: On the heels of successfully integrating recent acquisitions, our relentless focus on paying down debt and strengthening our balance sheet remains a priority which will enable us to be in a strong position to take advantage of strategic opportunities. Overall, 2026 is off to a decent start despite severe weather issues in some of our regions, which we're prepared to deal with. I continue to be pleased with how our growth strategy continues to unfold, resulting in strong sales and earnings in the face of a tough year-over-year pricing environment while remaining focused on margin protection during these times. In 2025, we were also able to demonstrate the positive impact of prior year acquisitions for the full fiscal year. We are very proud of our acquisition of Doman Tucker Lumber and prior to that, Southeast Forest Products.
Amar Doman: On the heels of successfully integrating recent acquisitions, our relentless focus on paying down debt and strengthening our balance sheet remains a priority which will enable us to be in a strong position to take advantage of strategic opportunities. Overall, 2026 is off to a decent start despite severe weather issues in some of our regions, which we're prepared to deal with. I continue to be pleased with how our growth strategy continues to unfold, resulting in strong sales and earnings in the face of a tough year-over-year pricing environment while remaining focused on margin protection during these times. In 2025, we were also able to demonstrate the positive impact of prior year acquisitions for the full fiscal year. We are very proud of our acquisition of Doman Tucker Lumber and prior to that, Southeast Forest Products.
Speaker #3: I continue to be pleased with how our growth strategy continues to unfold, resulting in strong sales and earnings in the face of a tough year-over-year pricing environment.
Speaker #3: While remaining focused on margin protection during these times, in 2025, we were also able to demonstrate the positive impact of prior year acquisitions for the full fiscal year.
Speaker #3: We are very proud of our acquisition of Tucker Lumber, and prior to that, Southeast Forest Products. As you probably are aware, Jcode, our CFO of 15 years, will be retiring on April 7th.
Amar Doman: As you probably are aware, Jay Code, our CFO of 15 years, will be retiring on 7 April. Before handing the call off to Jay one last time to provide a review of the company's full financial results, on behalf of the entire Doman family, I would like to extend our sincere thanks for your years of dedicated service at Doman. Your commitment, professionalism, and contributions have made a lasting impact on our team and organization. I'm truly grateful for all you have done and wish you continued success in your well-deserved retirement. Over to you, Jay.
Amar Doman: As you probably are aware, Jay Code, our CFO of 15 years, will be retiring on 7 April. Before handing the call off to Jay one last time to provide a review of the company's full financial results, on behalf of the entire Doman family, I would like to extend our sincere thanks for your years of dedicated service at Doman. Your commitment, professionalism, and contributions have made a lasting impact on our team and organization. I'm truly grateful for all you have done and wish you continued success in your well-deserved retirement. Over to you, Jay.
Speaker #3: So before handing the call off to J . One last time to provide a review of the company's full financial results on behalf of the entire domain family , I would like to extend our sincere thanks for your years of dedicated service at Dorman .
Speaker #3: Your commitment , professionalism and contributions have made a lasting impact on our team and organization . I'm truly grateful for all you have done and wish you continued success in your well-deserved retirement .
Speaker #3: Over to you J
Speaker #4: Thank you very much for those kind words , Mark , and good morning , everyone Sales for the year ended December 31st , 2025 were 3.12 billion versus 2.66 billion in 24 , an increase of $456 million , or 17.1% , largely due to the positive impact of the company's acquisitions completed in 2024 .
James Code: Thank you very much for those kind words, Amar. Good morning, everyone. Sales for the year ended 31 December 2025 were CAD 3.12 billion versus CAD 2.66 billion in 2024, representing an increase of CAD 456 million or 17.1%, largely due to the positive impact of the company's acquisitions completed in 2024. The company's sales in the year were made up of 81% construction materials compared to 76% last year, with the remaining balance of sales resulting from specialty and allied products of 16% and other sources of 3%.
James Code: Thank you very much for those kind words, Amar. Good morning, everyone. Sales for the year ended 31 December 2025 were CAD 3.12 billion versus CAD 2.66 billion in 2024, representing an increase of CAD 456 million or 17.1%, largely due to the positive impact of the company's acquisitions completed in 2024. The company's sales in the year were made up of 81% construction materials compared to 76% last year, with the remaining balance of sales resulting from specialty and allied products of 16% and other sources of 3%.
Speaker #4: The company's sales in the year were made up of 81% construction materials, compared to 76% last year, with the remaining balance of sales resulting from specialty and allied products at 16%, and other sources at 3%.
Speaker #4: Domains . Gross margin was 505.5 million versus 424.8 million in 24 . An increase of $80.7 million , benefiting from the contributions of our 24 acquisitions , as well as ongoing execution of our margin enhancement strategies , gross margin percentage was 16.2% this year compared to 16% achieved in the previous year Expenses for 25 were 349.1 million , compared to 306.5 million last year , an increase of $42.6 million , or 13.9% , as a percentage of sales , 2025 expenses were 11.2% , compared to 11.5% in 24 .
James Code: Doman's gross margin was $505.5 million versus $424.8 million in 2024, an increase of $80.7 million, benefiting from the contributions of our 24 acquisitions as well as ongoing execution of our margin enhancement strategies. Gross margin percentage was 16.2% this year compared to 16% achieved in the previous year. Expenses for 2025 were $349.1 million compared to $306.5 million last year, an increase of $42.6 million or 13.9%. As a percentage of sales, 2025 expenses were 11.2% compared to 11.5% in 2024.
James Code: Doman's gross margin was $505.5 million versus $424.8 million in 2024, an increase of $80.7 million, benefiting from the contributions of our 24 acquisitions as well as ongoing execution of our margin enhancement strategies. Gross margin percentage was 16.2% this year compared to 16% achieved in the previous year. Expenses for 2025 were $349.1 million compared to $306.5 million last year, an increase of $42.6 million or 13.9%. As a percentage of sales, 2025 expenses were 11.2% compared to 11.5% in 2024.
Speaker #4: Distribution . Selling and administrative expenses increased by $19.9 million , or 8.7% , to 249.1 million in 2025 , versus 229.2 million in 2020 .
James Code: Distribution, selling and administration expenses increased by CAD 19.9 million or 8.7% to CAD 249.1 million in 2025 versus CAD 229.2 million in 2024, mainly related to activities of the acquired companies as well as broad inflationary pressures. As a percentage of sales, DS&A was 8% this year compared to 8.6% in the prior year. Depreciation and amortization expenses increased by CAD 22.8 million or 29.5% from CAD 77.2 million to CAD 100 million, mainly due to additional property, plant and equipment and intangible assets related to the 2024 acquisitions.
James Code: Distribution, selling and administration expenses increased by CAD 19.9 million or 8.7% to CAD 249.1 million in 2025 versus CAD 229.2 million in 2024, mainly related to activities of the acquired companies as well as broad inflationary pressures. As a percentage of sales, DS&A was 8% this year compared to 8.6% in the prior year. Depreciation and amortization expenses increased by CAD 22.8 million or 29.5% from CAD 77.2 million to CAD 100 million, mainly due to additional property, plant and equipment and intangible assets related to the 2024 acquisitions.
Speaker #4: For mainly related to activities of the acquired companies as well as broad inflationary pressures as a percentage of sales , Dsna was 8% this year compared to 8.6% in the prior year .
Speaker #4: Depreciation and amortization expenses increased by $22.8 million , or 29.5% , from 77.2 million to 100 million , mainly due to additional property , plant and equipment and intangible assets related to the 20 .
Speaker #4: Four acquisitions . Finance costs for 2025 were 72.9 million , compared to 53.7 million in 2024 . An increase of $19.1 million , largely as a result of additional costs related to the financing of the domain .
James Code: Finance costs for 2025 were $72.9 million compared to $53.7 million in 2024, an increase of $19.1 million, largely as a result of additional costs related to the financing of the Doman Tucker Lumber acquisition on 1 October 2024. We note directly attributable acquisition costs during the comparative prior year were $3.3 million, and these costs included due diligence, legal, environmental, financial, management resources, and other advisory services directly attributable to the acquisition activities. EBITDA in 2025 was $256.4 million compared to $192.2 million in 2024, an increase of $64.2 million or 33.4%. Adjusted EBITDA in the comparative prior year before the non-recurring acquisition costs was $195.5 million.
James Code: Finance costs for 2025 were $72.9 million compared to $53.7 million in 2024, an increase of $19.1 million, largely as a result of additional costs related to the financing of the Doman Tucker Lumber acquisition on 1 October 2024. We note directly attributable acquisition costs during the comparative prior year were $3.3 million, and these costs included due diligence, legal, environmental, financial, management resources, and other advisory services directly attributable to the acquisition activities. EBITDA in 2025 was $256.4 million compared to $192.2 million in 2024, an increase of $64.2 million or 33.4%. Adjusted EBITDA in the comparative prior year before the non-recurring acquisition costs was $195.5 million.
Speaker #4: Tucker Lumber acquisition . On October 1st , 2024 , we note directly attributable acquisition costs during the comparative prior year were $3.3 million , and these costs included due diligence , legal , environmental , financial , management , resources and other advisory services directly attributable to the acquisition activities .
Speaker #4: EBITDA in 2025 was 256.4 million , compared to 192.2 million in 2024 . An increase of $64.2 million , or 33.4% . Adjusted EBITDA in the comparative prior year .
Speaker #4: Before the non-recurring acquisition costs was $195.5 million . Our EBITDA in 2025 benefited from the full year inclusion of the results from the 2024 acquisition acquisitions , but these benefits were partially offset by the previously discussed overall weaker pricing in certain construction materials categories , as well as an increase in expenses due to inflationary pressures .
James Code: Our EBITDA in 2025 benefited from the full year inclusion of the results from the 2024 acquisitions, these benefits were partially offset by the previously discussed overall weaker pricing in certain construction materials categories, as well as an increase in expenses due to inflationary pressures. Net earnings for 2025 were CAD 80.3 million compared to CAD 54.2 million in 2024, an increase of CAD 26.1 million. Turning now to the statement of cash flows. Operating activities before non-cash working capital generated CAD 163.6 million in cash compared to CAD 148.7 million in 2024. Stronger operating cash flows in 2025 were largely driven by this year's significant increase in net earnings.
James Code: Our EBITDA in 2025 benefited from the full year inclusion of the results from the 2024 acquisitions, these benefits were partially offset by the previously discussed overall weaker pricing in certain construction materials categories, as well as an increase in expenses due to inflationary pressures. Net earnings for 2025 were CAD 80.3 million compared to CAD 54.2 million in 2024, an increase of CAD 26.1 million. Turning now to the statement of cash flows. Operating activities before non-cash working capital generated CAD 163.6 million in cash compared to CAD 148.7 million in 2024. Stronger operating cash flows in 2025 were largely driven by this year's significant increase in net earnings.
Speaker #4: Net earnings for 2025 were $80.3 million , compared to 54.2 million in 2024 . An increase of $26.1 million . And turning now to the statement of cash flows , operating activities before non-cash working capital generated 163.6 million in cash , compared to 148.7 million in 2024 .
Speaker #4: Stronger operating cash flows in 2025 were largely driven by this year's significant increase in net earnings. Financing activities in 2025 consumed $235.7 million of cash, related to repayments of debt and payments to equity stakeholders. During the comparative prior year, the company utilized debt facilities to finance the domain.
James Code: Financing activities in 2025 consumed CAD 235.7 million of cash related to repayments of debt and payments to equity stakeholders. During the comparative prior year, the company utilized debt facilities to finance the Doman Tucker Lumber acquisition, resulting in CAD 345.5 million of cash provided by overall net financing activities. The company returned CAD 49 million to shareholders through dividends paid in 2025, largely in line with 2024. The shares issued net of transaction costs generated an additional CAD 1.8 million of cash compared to CAD 1.5 million in the prior year. Payment of lease liabilities, including interest, consumed CAD 32.3 million of cash compared to CAD 29.1 million in 2024. We note the company's lease obligations generally require monthly installments, and these payments are entirely current.
James Code: Financing activities in 2025 consumed CAD 235.7 million of cash related to repayments of debt and payments to equity stakeholders. During the comparative prior year, the company utilized debt facilities to finance the Doman Tucker Lumber acquisition, resulting in CAD 345.5 million of cash provided by overall net financing activities. The company returned CAD 49 million to shareholders through dividends paid in 2025, largely in line with 2024. The shares issued net of transaction costs generated an additional CAD 1.8 million of cash compared to CAD 1.5 million in the prior year. Payment of lease liabilities, including interest, consumed CAD 32.3 million of cash compared to CAD 29.1 million in 2024. We note the company's lease obligations generally require monthly installments, and these payments are entirely current.
Speaker #4: Tucker Lumber Acquisition , resulting in 345.5 million of cash provided by overall net financing activities . The company returned $49 million to shareholders through dividends paid in 2025 , largely in line with 2024 , and the shares issued net of transaction costs generated an additional 1.8 million of cash , compared to 1.5 million in the prior year .
Speaker #4: Payment of lease liabilities , including interest consumed 32.3 million of cash , compared to 29.1 million in 2024 . And we note the company's lease obligations generally require monthly installments , and these payments are entirely current .
Speaker #4: We also note the company was not in breach of its lending covenants during the year ended December 31, 2025. Overall, investing activities this year generated $45.6 million of cash, compared to consuming $474.3 million in 2024.
James Code: We also note the company was not in breach of its lending covenants during the year ended 31 December 2025. Overall, investing activities this year generated $45.6 million of cash, compared to consuming $474.3 million in 2024. Investing activities this year included the sale of the company's timberlands for total cash proceeds of $75.2 million, whereas investing activities in 2024 included the Southeast Forest Products and Doman Tucker acquisitions for total cash consideration of $460.8 million. Additionally, the company invested $29 million in new property, plant, and equipment during the year, compared to $14.2 million of property, plant, and equipment expenditures in 2024. This concludes our formal commentary, and we'd now be happy to respond to any questions that you may have. Thank you. Operator.
James Code: We also note the company was not in breach of its lending covenants during the year ended 31 December 2025. Overall, investing activities this year generated $45.6 million of cash, compared to consuming $474.3 million in 2024. Investing activities this year included the sale of the company's timberlands for total cash proceeds of $75.2 million, whereas investing activities in 2024 included the Southeast Forest Products and Doman Tucker acquisitions for total cash consideration of $460.8 million. Additionally, the company invested $29 million in new property, plant, and equipment during the year, compared to $14.2 million of property, plant, and equipment expenditures in 2024. This concludes our formal commentary, and we'd now be happy to respond to any questions that you may have. Thank you. Operator.
Speaker #4: Investing activities this year included the sale of the company's timberlands for total cash proceeds of $75.2 million, whereas investing activities in 2024 included the Southeast Forest Products and Domain, Tucker acquisitions.
Speaker #4: For total cash consideration of $460.8 million . Additionally , the company invested 29 million in new property , plant and equipment during the year , compared to 14.2 million of property , plant and equipment expenditures in 2024 .
Speaker #4: This concludes our formal commentary , and we'd now be happy to respond to any questions that you may have . Thank you . Operator
Speaker #1: Thank you sir . Ladies and gentlemen , if you would like to ask a question , please press Star One on your telephone keypad and a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue .
Operator: Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad and a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. Our first question comes from the line of Kasia Kopytek with TD Cowen. Please proceed.
Operator: Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star one on your telephone keypad and a confirmation tone will indicate your line is in the question queue. You may press star two if you would like to remove your question from the queue. For participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. Our first question comes from the line of Kasia Kopytek with TD Cowen. Please proceed.
Speaker #1: You may press star two. If you would like to remove your question from the queue, for participants using speaker equipment, it may be necessary to pick up your handset before pressing the star keys. And our first question comes from the line of Kazia with TD Cowen.
Speaker #1: Please proceed .
Speaker #5: Good morning, everyone. It's Kasha on the line. First question is on your margin enhancement strategies. You posted really strong margins in Q4.
Kasia Kopytek: Good morning, everyone. It's Kasia on the line. First question is on your margin enhancement strategies. You posted really strong margins in Q4. Can you give us an update on the sorts of things you're working on to keep the margins high and just articulate your general confidence in your ability to keep margins towards the high end of your historical range going forward?
Kasia Kopytek: Good morning, everyone. It's Kasia on the line. First question is on your margin enhancement strategies. You posted really strong margins in Q4. Can you give us an update on the sorts of things you're working on to keep the margins high and just articulate your general confidence in your ability to keep margins towards the high end of your historical range going forward?
Speaker #5: Can you give us an update on the sorts of things you're working on to keep EBIT margins high, and just articulate your general confidence in your ability to keep margins towards the high end of your historical range?
Speaker #5: Going forward
Speaker #3: Sure , Kash , you know , without us telling all our trade secrets , certainly our lumber buyers have done a hell of a job on both sides of the border positioning .
Amar Doman: Sure. Kasia, you know, without us telling all our trade secrets, certainly our lumber buyers have done a hell of a job on both sides of the border. Positioning well when there was dips, buying under the market and positioning ourselves ahead of time for, you know, market gyrations and really buying in those, you know, gross margin dollars. That was evidenced in Q4 and Q1 here has started off in the same fashion. I've got to give the credit to the lumber buyers really, you know, working through, you know, rough waters here, but really digging deep and making things make sense for us. That's really where it's coming from.
Amar Doman: Sure. Kasia, you know, without us telling all our trade secrets, certainly our lumber buyers have done a hell of a job on both sides of the border. Positioning well when there was dips, buying under the market and positioning ourselves ahead of time for, you know, market gyrations and really buying in those, you know, gross margin dollars. That was evidenced in Q4 and Q1 here has started off in the same fashion. I've got to give the credit to the lumber buyers really, you know, working through, you know, rough waters here, but really digging deep and making things make sense for us. That's really where it's coming from.
Speaker #3: Well , when there was dips buying under the market and positioning ourselves ahead of time for market gyrations and really buying in those gross margin dollars .
Speaker #3: So that was evidenced in Q4 and Q1. Here, it started off in the same fashion. So I've got to give the credit to the lumber buyers.
Speaker #3: Really , you know , working through , you know , rough waters here . But really digging deep and making things make sense for us .
Speaker #3: So that's really where it's coming from.
Speaker #4: I'd add there kasha that freight optimization strategies had also a significant role in the margin enhancements . In 2025 , we began to use new technology for the business , and that's starting to show in the freight costs .
James Code: I'd add there, Kasia, that freight optimization strategies had also a significant role in the margin enhancements. In 2025, we began to use new technology for the business, that's starting to show in the freight costs. The freight costs being a significant part of our cost of goods.
James Code: I'd add there, Kasia, that freight optimization strategies had also a significant role in the margin enhancements. In 2025, we began to use new technology for the business, that's starting to show in the freight costs. The freight costs being a significant part of our cost of goods.
Speaker #4: The freight cost being a significant part of our cost of goods
Speaker #5: Right . You've talked about this freight strategy in the past . Are we in the early innings of that ? Is there still a lot of runway left for optimizing those kinds of costs
Kasia Kopytek: Right. You've talked about this freight strategy in the past. Are we in the early innings of that? Is there still a lot of runway left for optimizing those kinds of costs?
Kasia Kopytek: Right. You've talked about this freight strategy in the past. Are we in the early innings of that? Is there still a lot of runway left for optimizing those kinds of costs?
Speaker #4: Yeah , I'd say early . We're in the early innings . We we have rolled it out in only two of our divisions .
James Code: Yeah, I'd say early. We're in the early innings. We have rolled it out in only two of our divisions, you know, we've got a ways to go to take full benefit from that.
James Code: Yeah, I'd say early. We're in the early innings. We have rolled it out in only two of our divisions, you know, we've got a ways to go to take full benefit from that.
Speaker #4: And so , you know , we've got a ways to go to take full benefit from that
Speaker #5: Okay . Thanks , Jay . And this is probably a question for you as well . The selling distribution and administrative expense . Can you comment on the kind of inflation that you're seeing in these expense categories .
Kasia Kopytek: Okay. Thanks, Jay. This is probably a question for you as well. The selling distribution and administrative expense, can you comment on the kind of inflation that you're seeing in these expense categories and maybe reference what a normalized range could look like for you guys going forward?
Kasia Kopytek: Okay. Thanks, Jay. This is probably a question for you as well. The selling distribution and administrative expense, can you comment on the kind of inflation that you're seeing in these expense categories and maybe reference what a normalized range could look like for you guys going forward?
Speaker #5: And maybe reference what a normalized range could look like for you guys going forward
Speaker #4: Yeah , it's I'd say broadly in line with the consumer price index . You know , we're talking about a significant , significant portion of that being compensation costs .
James Code: Yeah. It's I'd say broadly in line with the consumer price index. You know, we're talking about a significant portion of that being compensation costs and then facility costs. You know, we're leasing facilities, leasing material handling equipment, that kind of thing. You know, we'd be in that 3% range in 2025, I would estimate overall.
James Code: Yeah. It's I'd say broadly in line with the consumer price index. You know, we're talking about a significant portion of that being compensation costs and then facility costs. You know, we're leasing facilities, leasing material handling equipment, that kind of thing. You know, we'd be in that 3% range in 2025, I would estimate overall.
Speaker #4: And then facility costs . You know , we're releasing facilities leasing material handling equipment , that kind of thing . So , you know , we'd be , you know , in that 3% range in 25 , I would estimate overall .
Speaker #5: Okay. And the $61 million to $63 million quarterly, that's sort of a range that we're looking at. And then inflation on top of that.
Kasia Kopytek: Okay. Then CAD 61 to 63 million quarterly, that's sort of a range that we're looking at, and then inflation on top of that. Is that fair?
Kasia Kopytek: Okay. Then CAD 61 to 63 million quarterly, that's sort of a range that we're looking at, and then inflation on top of that. Is that fair?
Speaker #5: Is that fair
Speaker #4: Yes . Yes . Q4 being you know , Asmer pointed out normally a seasonal slower Period for us . So we would expect to to ramp up costs a little bit in the busier quarters .
James Code: Yes. Yes. Q4 being, you know, as Amar pointed out, normally a seasonal, slower, you know, period for us. We would expect to ramp up costs a little bit in the busier quarters.
James Code: Yes. Yes. Q4 being, you know, as Amar pointed out, normally a seasonal, slower, you know, period for us. We would expect to ramp up costs a little bit in the busier quarters.
Speaker #5: Right . And on CapEx , there was a bit of a ramp to end the year . Any special projects worth calling out , if I recall correctly , you guys are pretty excited about things in the pipeline for your specialty lumber .
Kasia Kopytek: Right. On CapEx, there was a bit of a ramp to end the year. Any special projects worth calling out? If I recall correctly, you guys are pretty excited about things in the pipeline for your specialty lumber.
Kasia Kopytek: Right. On CapEx, there was a bit of a ramp to end the year. Any special projects worth calling out? If I recall correctly, you guys are pretty excited about things in the pipeline for your specialty lumber.
Speaker #3: Exactly . Yeah . That there's a bunch of noise inside that number . So , you know , we can attribute it pretty much all to either upgrading or investing in new fencing equipment for sawmills , including into the Carolinas .
Amar Doman: Exactly. Yeah, that, there's a bunch of noise inside that number, so, you know, we can attribute it pretty much all to either upgrading or investing in new fencing equipment for our sawmills, including into the Carolinas, a new market for us. Some of that production will start to evidence later this year. We've upgraded our sawmill in Gilmer. We were there this week, and it's running. We're getting close to getting it to the point of, you know, we're happy with the volumes. The bugs are getting out of that, so those investments are...
Amar Doman: Exactly. Yeah, that, there's a bunch of noise inside that number, so, you know, we can attribute it pretty much all to either upgrading or investing in new fencing equipment for our sawmills, including into the Carolinas, a new market for us. Some of that production will start to evidence later this year. We've upgraded our sawmill in Gilmer. We were there this week, and it's running. We're getting close to getting it to the point of, you know, we're happy with the volumes. The bugs are getting out of that, so those investments are...
Speaker #3: A new market for us. So, some of that production will start to evidence later this year. We've upgraded our sawmill in Gilmer.
Speaker #3: We were there this week and it's running . We're getting close to getting it to the point of , you know , we're we're happy with the volumes .
Speaker #3: The bugs are getting out of that. So those investments are, and as I commented earlier in my comments, the fencing market continues to be strong for us.
Amar Doman: I commented earlier in my comments, the fencing market continues to be strong for us and certainly, with some tariffs being on South American countries where a lot of US fence comes in, there's a shortage right now, so, we're trying to amp up pretty quickly and modernize, upgrade and get more efficient.
Amar Doman: I commented earlier in my comments, the fencing market continues to be strong for us and certainly, with some tariffs being on South American countries where a lot of US fence comes in, there's a shortage right now, so, we're trying to amp up pretty quickly and modernize, upgrade and get more efficient.
Speaker #3: And certainly with some tariffs being on South American countries where a lot of us fence comes in , there's a shortage right now .
Speaker #3: So we're trying to amp up pretty quickly and modernize, upgrade, and get more efficient.
Speaker #5: Okay . Thanks for that context . So the level we saw in Q4 is that a new run rate going forward or should we see levels go back to what you did in the first three quarters of the year ?
[Analyst]: Okay. Thanks for that context, Amar. The level we saw in Q4, is that a new run rate going forward, or should we see levels go back to what you did in Q1, Q2, and Q3 of the year?
Kasia Kopytek: Okay. Thanks for that context, Amar. The level we saw in Q4, is that a new run rate going forward, or should we see levels go back to what you did in Q1, Q2, and Q3 of the year?
Speaker #3: Yeah, that'd be kind of a high watermark.
Amar Doman: Yeah, that'd be kind of a high-water mark.
Amar Doman: Yeah, that'd be kind of a high-water mark.
Speaker #4: Yeah. We still expect cash to be under 1% of revenue for PA expenditures. So, Q4 was a little bit high, just based on the lumpiness of where we spend and the timing of spending.
James Code: Yeah. We still expect cash should it be under 1% of revenue for PP&E expenditures. Q4 was a little bit high just based on, you know, lumpiness of where we spend, timing of spending.
James Code: Yeah. We still expect cash should it be under 1% of revenue for PP&E expenditures. Q4 was a little bit high just based on, you know, lumpiness of where we spend, timing of spending.
Speaker #5: Great . Gotcha . Okay . I have a few more , but I'll get back in the queue . I don't want to hug up too much time .
[Analyst]: Right. Gotcha. Okay. I have a few more, but I'll get back in the queue. I don't wanna hog up too much time. Thanks, everyone.
Kasia Kopytek: Right. Gotcha. Okay. I have a few more, but I'll get back in the queue. I don't wanna hog up too much time. Thanks, everyone.
Speaker #5: Thanks everyone .
Speaker #6: Thanks
Speaker #1: The next question comes from the line of Nicolai Garoupa with CIBC Capital Markets. Please proceed.
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Hamir Patel with CIBC Capital Markets. Please proceed.
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Hamir Patel with CIBC Capital Markets. Please proceed.
Speaker #7: Hi . Good morning . With both Lowe's and Home Depot forecasting a relatively flat R&R market this year , do you share a similar outlook and do you how do you see the tree , the lumber market performing in comparison ?
Rachel Smith: Hi, good morning. With both Lowe's and Home Depot forecasting a relatively flat R&R market this year, do you share a similar order outlook? How do you see the treated lumber market performing in comparison?
Nikolai Goroupitch: Hi, good morning. With both Lowe's and Home Depot forecasting a relatively flat R&R market this year, do you share a similar order outlook? How do you see the treated lumber market performing in comparison?
Speaker #3: Yeah , you know , I think everyone's just trying to , you know , forecast in a very , very murky world . It's hard to to make predictions here .
Amar Doman: Yeah, you know, I think everyone's just trying to, you know, forecast in a very, very murky world. It's hard to make predictions here, so I think everyone's cautious. You know, the repair and renovation market, yeah, I think it's gonna be flat. We had a decent takeaway year last year despite that. I think we'll have the same this year. I think it's just kind of what you see is what you get out there, and I think Lowe's and Depot certainly have the same, you know, forecast, just kind of flat to off a bit, maybe up a bit. Really hard to read, frankly. As far as our pressure treated category, you know, we're very pleased with our initial bookings and volumes heading into 2026.
Amar Doman: Yeah, you know, I think everyone's just trying to, you know, forecast in a very, very murky world. It's hard to make predictions here, so I think everyone's cautious. You know, the repair and renovation market, yeah, I think it's gonna be flat. We had a decent takeaway year last year despite that. I think we'll have the same this year. I think it's just kind of what you see is what you get out there, and I think Lowe's and Depot certainly have the same, you know, forecast, just kind of flat to off a bit, maybe up a bit. Really hard to read, frankly. As far as our pressure treated category, you know, we're very pleased with our initial bookings and volumes heading into 2026.
Speaker #3: So I think everyone's cautious . You know the repair and renovation market . Yeah I think it's going to be flat . We had a decent takeaway year last year .
Speaker #3: Despite that , I think we'll have the same this year . I think it's just kind of what you see is what you get out there and I think Lowe's and Depot certainly have the same , you know , forecast just kind of flat to off a bit , maybe up a bit , really hard to read , frankly .
Speaker #3: And as far as our pressure-treated category, you know, we're very pleased with our initial bookings and volumes heading into '26.
Speaker #3: The first two months are booked up, and we're pleased with what we see. So, you know, not super excited for sure.
Amar Doman: The first two months are booked, and we're pleased with what we see. You know, not superly excited for sure. It's just the way the world is. Certainly we're gonna be hitting good base hits this year, and we should be just fine.
Amar Doman: The first two months are booked, and we're pleased with what we see. You know, not superly excited for sure. It's just the way the world is. Certainly we're gonna be hitting good base hits this year, and we should be just fine.
Speaker #3: It's just the way the world is. But certainly, we're going to be hitting good base hits this year, and we should be just fine.
Speaker #7: Okay, thanks. And with lumber prices climbing over the past few months in the U.S. South, and producers earning a decent margin in the region.
Rachel Smith: Okay, thanks. With lumber prices climbing over the past few months in the US South and producers earning a decent margin in the region, do you think mills will add hours and in turn bring more SYP production online in this market?
Nikolai Goroupitch: Okay, thanks. With lumber prices climbing over the past few months in the US South and producers earning a decent margin in the region, do you think mills will add hours and in turn bring more SYP production online in this market?
Speaker #7: Do you think mills will add hours and, in turn, bring more slip production online in this market?
Speaker #3: Yeah , some have and some haven't . You know , the increase wasn't dramatic in of course it was . You know , through very , very slow months .
Amar Doman: Yeah, some have and some haven't. You know, the increase wasn't dramatic. Of course, it was, you know, through very, very slow months, you know, a little bit in December and then into January. You know, the cold, the deep freeze really came in and stalled everything and it's kind of flatlined. I don't really see the mills ramping up and I'm hoping they kinda don't so we can kinda keep the sustainability of a bit of a higher pricing for everybody involved would be, I think, decent for the industry.
Amar Doman: Yeah, some have and some haven't. You know, the increase wasn't dramatic. Of course, it was, you know, through very, very slow months, you know, a little bit in December and then into January. You know, the cold, the deep freeze really came in and stalled everything and it's kind of flatlined. I don't really see the mills ramping up and I'm hoping they kinda don't so we can kinda keep the sustainability of a bit of a higher pricing for everybody involved would be, I think, decent for the industry.
Speaker #3: You know, a little bit in December and then into January, and then—you know—the cold, the deep freeze really came in and stalled everything.
Speaker #3: And it's kind of flatline, so I don't really see the mills ramping up. And I'm hoping they kind of don't.
Speaker #3: So we can kind of keep this sustainability of a bit of a higher pricing for everybody involved, would be, I think, decent for the industry.
Speaker #7: Okay. Great. Thanks. I'll turn it over.
Rachel Smith: Okay, great. Thanks. I'll turn it over.
Nikolai Goroupitch: Okay, great. Thanks. I'll turn it over.
Speaker #1: The next question comes from the line of Zachary Evershed with National Bank Financial. Please proceed.
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Zachary Evershed with National Bank Financial. Please proceed.
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Zachary Evershed with National Bank Financial. Please proceed.
Speaker #8: Hey. Morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions.
Zachary Evershed: Hey, morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions.
Zachary Evershed: Hey, morning, everyone. Thanks for taking my questions.
Speaker #3: Thanks
Amar Doman: Thanks.
Amar Doman: Thanks.
Zachary Evershed: Could you give us a little bit more commentary on how volumes trended throughout the quarter? I know that the cold months can be slow, but maybe a bit of an idea of how things were paced in November, December into January and February.
Speaker #8: Could you give us a little bit more commentary on how volumes trended throughout the quarter? I know that the cold months can be slow, but maybe a bit of an idea of how things were paced in November, December, into January and February.
Zachary Evershed: Could you give us a little bit more commentary on how volumes trended throughout the quarter? I know that the cold months can be slow, but maybe a bit of an idea of how things were paced in November, December into January and February.
Speaker #3: Yeah , I wouldn't say it was abnormal . It was just a normal fourth quarter . I think , you know , some of the research analysts , you know , had different views on pricing or volumes .
Amar Doman: Yeah, I wouldn't say it was abnormal. It was just a normal Q4. I think, you know, some of the research analysts, you know, had different views on pricing or volumes, and it, you know, there was quite a range. For us, it was just a routine Q4. Pricing started to pick up in kind of the first week of December, but it's December, so it's a bit of a so what. You know, we did some good buying to help protect the margins. I think, you know, two key things for the Q4. I think, 1, our debt reduction, and number 2, our margin stability was great. The pulse of the business is just fine, as is the balance sheet.
Amar Doman: Yeah, I wouldn't say it was abnormal. It was just a normal Q4. I think, you know, some of the research analysts, you know, had different views on pricing or volumes, and it, you know, there was quite a range. For us, it was just a routine Q4. Pricing started to pick up in kind of the first week of December, but it's December, so it's a bit of a so what. You know, we did some good buying to help protect the margins. I think, you know, two key things for the Q4. I think, 1, our debt reduction, and number 2, our margin stability was great. The pulse of the business is just fine, as is the balance sheet.
Speaker #3: And, you know, there was quite a range. And for us, it was just a routine fourth quarter. Pricing started to pick up in kind of the first week of December.
Speaker #3: But it's December, so it's a bit of a so what—you know, we did some good buying to help protect the margins.
Speaker #3: And I think , you know , two key things for the fourth quarter , I think one , our debt reduction and number two , our margin stability was great .
Speaker #3: So the pulse of the business is just fine , as is the balance sheet
Speaker #8: And speaking of that balance sheet, maybe you could tell us about what's in your crosshairs for M&A at the moment.
Zachary Evershed: Speaking of that balance sheet, maybe you could tell us about what's in your crosshairs for M&A at the moment?
Zachary Evershed: Speaking of that balance sheet, maybe you could tell us about what's in your crosshairs for M&A at the moment?
Speaker #3: Yeah. You know, we're still looking to fill in some of those white spaces, if you will, on the map where we're not directly located yet.
Amar Doman: Yeah. You know, we're still looking to fill in some of those white spaces, if you will, on the map where we're not directly located yet, and we'll continue to work through those opportunities. We will be in those markets, just a matter of the right opportunity coming up and the balance sheet's ready. Stay tuned and we'll continue on with our strategy.
Amar Doman: Yeah. You know, we're still looking to fill in some of those white spaces, if you will, on the map where we're not directly located yet, and we'll continue to work through those opportunities. We will be in those markets, just a matter of the right opportunity coming up and the balance sheet's ready. Stay tuned and we'll continue on with our strategy.
Speaker #3: And we'll continue to work through those opportunities. But we will be in those markets—it's just a matter of the right opportunity coming up.
Speaker #3: And the balance sheet is ready. So stay tuned, and we'll continue on with our strategy.
Speaker #8: Thank you very much. And then just one last one. Pretty speculative here. Obviously, we've got a very volatile tariff framework.
Zachary Evershed: Thanks very much. Just one last one, pretty speculative here. Obviously we've got a very volatile tariff framework, some global geopolitical instability. The R&R side of things seems to be pretty cautious. What's your view on new residential housing in North America this year?
Zachary Evershed: Thanks very much. Just one last one, pretty speculative here. Obviously we've got a very volatile tariff framework, some global geopolitical instability. The R&R side of things seems to be pretty cautious. What's your view on new residential housing in North America this year?
Speaker #8: There's been some global geopolitical instability. The R&R side of things seems to be pretty cautious. What's your view on new residential housing in North America this year?
Speaker #3: Yeah , I think the worst is behind us . I think , you know , I think the the interest rates will continue to go down .
Amar Doman: Yeah. I think the worst is behind us, I think. You know, I think the interest rates will continue to go down. Obviously, nobody likes what's happening with oil today. I think that if, you know, these rates continue to tick down in the United States, like they are, we're under 6% now, we're starting to see some action. That's good. I don't expect some boom, but I think there will be more action as people can move around and get out of some of those cheaper mortgages they did during COVID now as the gap's getting closed.
Amar Doman: Yeah. I think the worst is behind us, I think. You know, I think the interest rates will continue to go down. Obviously, nobody likes what's happening with oil today. I think that if, you know, these rates continue to tick down in the United States, like they are, we're under 6% now, we're starting to see some action. That's good. I don't expect some boom, but I think there will be more action as people can move around and get out of some of those cheaper mortgages they did during COVID now as the gap's getting closed.
Speaker #3: Obviously nobody likes what's happening with oil today . But I think that if you know , these rates continue to , you know , tick down in the United States like they are , we're under 6% now .
Speaker #3: We're starting to see some action . So that's good . I don't I don't expect some boom . But I think there will be more action as people can move around and get out of some of those cheaper mortgages they did during Covid .
Speaker #3: Now , is the gap's getting closed . So , you know , for what it's worth , our view is the worst is behind us .
Amar Doman: You know, for what it's worth, our view is the worst is behind us, but not, you know, crazily excited about things running up hard, but I don't think they get worse from here.
Amar Doman: You know, for what it's worth, our view is the worst is behind us, but not, you know, crazily excited about things running up hard, but I don't think they get worse from here.
Speaker #3: But not, you know, crazily excited about things running up hard. But I don't think they get worse from here.
Speaker #8: Great. Thanks. I'll turn it over.
Zachary Evershed: Great. Thanks. I'll turn it over.
Zachary Evershed: Great. Thanks. I'll turn it over.
Speaker #3: Thanks , Zach
Speaker #1: The next question comes from the line of Ian Gillies with Stifel. Please proceed.
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Ian Gillies with BMO. Please proceed.
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Ian Gillies with BMO. Please proceed.
Speaker #9: Morning , everyone .
Ian Gillies: Morning, everyone.
Ian Gillies: Morning, everyone.
Speaker #3: Good morning .
Speaker #9: I'm . Are you able to talk a little bit about where you're at with adding value added services into your various facilities ? I mean , whether it be as a percentage of revenue or what you think you may be in and where you'd like to get to .
Amar Doman: Morning.
Amar Doman: Morning.
Ian Gillies: Amar, are you able to talk a little bit about where you're at with adding value-added services into your various facilities? I mean, whether it be as a percentage of revenue or what inning you think you may be in, and where you'd like to get to.
Ian Gillies: Amar, are you able to talk a little bit about where you're at with adding value-added services into your various facilities? I mean, whether it be as a percentage of revenue or what inning you think you may be in, and where you'd like to get to.
Speaker #3: Yeah , you know , the value added is , you know , our primary business will continue to to grow and , you areas such as fencing manufacturing one inch we've got some good strategies inside the company to organically grow with our customer base at our national in the United States .
Amar Doman: Yeah. You know, the value added is, you know, our primary business. We'll continue to grow in, you know, areas such as fencing manufacturing of 1 inch. We've got some good strategies inside the company to organically grow with our customer base that are national in the US and of course, across Canada. We're working on all kinds of things inside with our specialty sawmills. Obviously, they're smaller, you know, but they're very effective into our marketplace with niche products. I won't dive into all that into the weeds today. Some of those investments in dollars that we talked about earlier on the call are directly going into our specialty value-added side of the business, and we're gonna continue to amp that up.
Amar Doman: Yeah. You know, the value added is, you know, our primary business. We'll continue to grow in, you know, areas such as fencing manufacturing of 1 inch. We've got some good strategies inside the company to organically grow with our customer base that are national in the US and of course, across Canada. We're working on all kinds of things inside with our specialty sawmills. Obviously, they're smaller, you know, but they're very effective into our marketplace with niche products. I won't dive into all that into the weeds today. Some of those investments in dollars that we talked about earlier on the call are directly going into our specialty value-added side of the business, and we're gonna continue to amp that up.
Speaker #3: And of course across Canada . So we're working on all kinds of things inside with our specialty sawmills . Obviously , they're smaller , you know , but they're very effective into our marketplace with niche products .
Speaker #3: So I won't dive into all that, into the weeds today. But some of those investments and dollars that we talked about earlier on the call are directly going into our specialty value-added side of the business.
Speaker #3: And we're going to continue to amp that up . And we mentioned when we bought Tucker , you know , back in 24 , some of those strategies want to cross-pollinate over to Doman lumber side .
Amar Doman: We mentioned when we bought Tucker, you know, back in 2024, some of those strategies wanna cross-pollinate over to Doman lumber side and then vice versa, getting into fencing on the East Coast of the US in a big way. Starting mid this year, we're gonna be, you know, producing a lot of fence boards out there, and the market's ready for it. Stay tuned. We're right on track.
Amar Doman: We mentioned when we bought Tucker, you know, back in 2024, some of those strategies wanna cross-pollinate over to Doman lumber side and then vice versa, getting into fencing on the East Coast of the US in a big way. Starting mid this year, we're gonna be, you know, producing a lot of fence boards out there, and the market's ready for it. Stay tuned. We're right on track.
Speaker #3: And then vice versa . Getting into fencing on the east coast of the United States . And a big way starting mid this year , we're going to be producing a lot of fence boards out there , and the market's ready for it .
Speaker #3: So stay tuned. We're right on track.
Speaker #9: Okay , there's been a number of government programs either announced or bandied about on both sides of the border . Are there any in particular that you would point to that you're particularly excited about that you think could benefit domain moving forward , or perhaps demand drivers that aren't , well understood ?
Ian Gillies: Okay. There's been a number of government programs either announced or bandied about on both sides of the border. Are there any in particular that you would point to that you're particularly excited about that you think could benefit Doman moving forward or perhaps demand drivers that aren't well understood?
Ian Gillies: Okay. There's been a number of government programs either announced or bandied about on both sides of the border. Are there any in particular that you would point to that you're particularly excited about that you think could benefit Doman moving forward or perhaps demand drivers that aren't well understood?
Speaker #3: Yeah , I you know , I think you've heard me say it before . The government , you know , getting involved in housing is never worked .
Amar Doman: Yeah, you know, I think you've heard me say it before. The government, you know, getting involved in housing has never worked. I don't think it works this time either. I think it's more of a press release than anything. I think the market has to figure things out. Developers, cost of land, cost of materials, mortgage. Yeah, I just don't see the government coming in. If they do, great, we can do some supplying to them. Probably the modular guys will do well, who we supply across Canada. Of course, the United States, the government won't get involved in building housing. They'll leave that market, you know, to figure it out.
Amar Doman: Yeah, you know, I think you've heard me say it before. The government, you know, getting involved in housing has never worked. I don't think it works this time either. I think it's more of a press release than anything. I think the market has to figure things out. Developers, cost of land, cost of materials, mortgage. Yeah, I just don't see the government coming in. If they do, great, we can do some supplying to them. Probably the modular guys will do well, who we supply across Canada. Of course, the United States, the government won't get involved in building housing. They'll leave that market, you know, to figure it out.
Speaker #3: I don't think it works this time either. I think it's more of a press release than anything. I think the market has to figure things out.
Speaker #3: Developers , cost of land , cost of materials , mortgage . You know , I just don't see the government coming in . If they do We can do some some supplying to them .
Speaker #3: Probably the modular guys will do well who we supply across Canada . And then of course , the United States , the government won't get involved in building housing .
Speaker #3: They'll leave that market . You know , to figure it out .
Speaker #9: Understood. Thanks very much.
Ian Gillies: Understood. Thanks very much.
Ian Gillies: Understood. Thanks very much.
Speaker #3: Thanks .
Amar Doman: Thanks, Ian.
Amar Doman: Thanks, Ian.
Speaker #6: Ian
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Frederic Tremblay with Desjardins Capital Markets. Please proceed.
Operator: The next question comes from the line of Frederic Tremblay with Desjardins Capital Markets. Please proceed.
Speaker #1: Next question comes from the line of Frederic Tremblay with Desjardins Capital Markets. Please proceed. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. Starting with maybe the fencing side, you know, obviously a big component there this year. I was wondering if you can help us better understand the capacity increase in fencing, given all the investments that you're putting together now. Maybe just a clarification on when you expect the revenue contribution from those initiatives to come through in the financials.
Frederic Tremblay: Thank you. Starting with maybe the fencing side, you know, obviously a big component there this year. I was wondering if you can help us better understand the capacity increase in fencing, given all the investments that you're putting together now. Maybe just a clarification on when you expect the revenue contribution from those initiatives to come through in the financials.
Speaker #10: Starting with maybe the fencing side . You know , obviously big component there this year . I was wondering if you could help us better understand the capacity increase in fencing , given all the investments that that you're putting together now and maybe just a clarification on when you expect the revenue contribution from those initiatives to come through in the financials .
Speaker #3: Sure . Yeah . I don't have percentages ready for you today , but probably in the second or third quarter , we'll have a clearer picture of exactly how the modifications are going at the sawmills .
Amar Doman: Sure. Yeah. I don't have percentages ready for you today. Probably in the 2nd or 3rd Q, we'll have a clearer picture of exactly how the modifications are going at the sawmills and our new venture, you know, in the Carolinas to start up there as well sometime in Q2, the start of Q3. We also did not have storms last year. This year, they're forecasting a heavier hurricane season or at least a hurricane season. When that happens, that drives a lot of quick demand for our fencing products. We expect to have a busier volume year. Apologies, Frederic, I don't have percentages, just know that we're gonna get more efficient, doing it with less labor, more automation, and the volumes are gonna pick up.
Amar Doman: Sure. Yeah. I don't have percentages ready for you today. Probably in the 2nd or 3rd Q, we'll have a clearer picture of exactly how the modifications are going at the sawmills and our new venture, you know, in the Carolinas to start up there as well sometime in Q2, the start of Q3. We also did not have storms last year. This year, they're forecasting a heavier hurricane season or at least a hurricane season. When that happens, that drives a lot of quick demand for our fencing products. We expect to have a busier volume year. Apologies, Frederic, I don't have percentages, just know that we're gonna get more efficient, doing it with less labor, more automation, and the volumes are gonna pick up.
Speaker #3: And our our new venture , you know , in the Carolinas to start up there as well , sometime in Q2 , the start of Q3 , we also did not have storms last year .
Speaker #3: This year, they're forecasting a heavier hurricane season, or at least a hurricane season. And when that happens, that drives a lot of quick demand for our fencing products.
Speaker #3: So we expect to have a busier volume year . And apologies , Frederick , I don't have percentages , but just know that we're going to get more efficient doing it with less labor , more automation , and the volumes are going to pick up .
Speaker #3: And, you know, our goal is to be probably the number one fence producer in the United States within the next two years.
Amar Doman: You know, our goal is to be, probably the number one fence producer in the United States over the next two years, and I think we're gonna get there.
Amar Doman: You know, our goal is to be, probably the number one fence producer in the United States over the next two years, and I think we're gonna get there.
Speaker #3: And I think we're going to get there.
Speaker #10: That's very helpful. And would you say fencing products in general are margin accretive compared to the overall margin of the company?
Operator: Yeah. That's very helpful. Would you say fencing products in general are margin accretive compared to the overall margin of the company?
Frederic Tremblay: Yeah. That's very helpful. Would you say fencing products in general are margin accretive compared to the overall margin of the company?
Speaker #3: They are , as we manufacture everything inside , right from the log right to the finished pressure treated picket onto the truck , right to the retailer .
Amar Doman: They are. As you know, we manufacture everything inside, right from the log, right to the finished pressure-treated picket onto the truck, right to the retailer. We capture those margins all along the way, with the manufacturing in there. It's not something that moves around like random lengths pricing. You know, we try to do our best to maintain the margin to, you know. It's obviously a higher cost to it being a manufactured item, than distribution. We need to protect those margins. By investing in the plant, in the equipment and the sawmills, we're certainly getting more efficient in driving those costs down.
Amar Doman: They are. As you know, we manufacture everything inside, right from the log, right to the finished pressure-treated picket onto the truck, right to the retailer. We capture those margins all along the way, with the manufacturing in there. It's not something that moves around like random lengths pricing. You know, we try to do our best to maintain the margin to, you know. It's obviously a higher cost to it being a manufactured item, than distribution. We need to protect those margins. By investing in the plant, in the equipment and the sawmills, we're certainly getting more efficient in driving those costs down.
Speaker #3: We capture those margins all along the way, with the manufacturing in there, and it's not something that moves around like random pricing.
Speaker #3: So , you know , we try to do our best to maintain the margin to , you know , there's obviously a higher cost to it being a manufactured item than distribution .
Speaker #3: So we need to protect those. And by investing in the plant, in the equipment, and in the sawmills, we're certainly getting more efficient and driving those costs down.
Speaker #10: Great . And then last question for me , just coming back on the M&A topic , maybe from the valuation angle , are you seeing any sort of changes in salaries expectations given the state of the market now ?
Operator: Great. Then last question from me, just coming back on the M&A topic, maybe from the valuation angle, are you seeing any sort of changes in seller's expectations given, you know, the state of the market now? Are you noticing any valuation changes on there?
Frederic Tremblay: Great. Then last question from me, just coming back on the M&A topic, maybe from the valuation angle, are you seeing any sort of changes in seller's expectations given, you know, the state of the market now? Are you noticing any valuation changes on there?
Speaker #10: Are you noticing any valuation changes out there?
Speaker #4: Yeah . Valuation perspectives on on M&A Frederick I think is what your question is . And we're not seeing any dramatic changes in expectations from from sellers at this point .
Amar Doman: Yeah. Valuation, perspectives on M&A, Frederic, I think is what your question is. We're not seeing any dramatic changes in expectations from sellers at this point. We're remaining disciplined in what we will be willing to pay, certainly. Has to be within our multiple range, we're not going outside that range ever.
Amar Doman: Yeah. Valuation, perspectives on M&A, Frederic, I think is what your question is. We're not seeing any dramatic changes in expectations from sellers at this point. We're remaining disciplined in what we will be willing to pay, certainly. Has to be within our multiple range, we're not going outside that range ever.
Speaker #4: And we're remaining disciplined in what we will be willing to pay. Certainly, it has to be within our multiple range, and we're not going outside that range ever.
Speaker #10: Great . Thank you
Operator: Great. Thank you.
Frederic Tremblay: Great. Thank you.
Speaker #1: The next question will come again from the line of Cassia with Eddie. Please proceed.
Operator: The next question will come again from the line of Kashar Kotia with TD Cowen. Please proceed.
Operator: The next question will come again from the line of Kashar Kotia with TD Cowen. Please proceed.
Speaker #5: Hey , everyone . The fencing products . I know you said you don't have a percentage for . Go forward contributions . Handy , but can you give us a sense of what ?
Kasia Kopytek: Hey, everyone. The fencing products, Amar, I know you said you don't have a percentage for go forward contribution handy, but can you give us a sense of what percentage fencing encompasses of your current product mix? Is it less than 5%? What's the number?
Kasia Kopytek: Hey, everyone. The fencing products, Amar, I know you said you don't have a percentage for go forward contribution handy, but can you give us a sense of what percentage fencing encompasses of your current product mix? Is it less than 5%? What's the number?
Speaker #5: Fencing—what percentage does fencing encompass of your current product mix? Is it less than 5%? What’s the number?
Speaker #3: It's between 5 and 10% . And rapidly growing . We're pretty much sold out . Everything that we make currently , which is a great place to be .
Amar Doman: It's between 5 and 10% and rapidly growing. We're pretty much sold out everything that we make currently, which is a great place to be. You know, we've never been in that position. A lot of it is to do with the tariffs again, out of South America. Material has just stalled coming out of there, and it was so big going into Houston and Florida, then being redistributed around and it's basically crickets. The demand has turned on strong. Number one, we're looking after all of our current customers and then taking on some new business from customers that, you know, really need it, that we're close to. Then we're trying to turn on our production, you know, as fast as possible.
Amar Doman: It's between 5 and 10% and rapidly growing. We're pretty much sold out everything that we make currently, which is a great place to be. You know, we've never been in that position. A lot of it is to do with the tariffs again, out of South America. Material has just stalled coming out of there, and it was so big going into Houston and Florida, then being redistributed around and it's basically crickets. The demand has turned on strong. Number one, we're looking after all of our current customers and then taking on some new business from customers that, you know, really need it, that we're close to. Then we're trying to turn on our production, you know, as fast as possible.
Speaker #3: You know , we've never been in that position . A lot of it is to do with the tariffs . Again , out of South America , material is just stalled coming out of there .
Speaker #3: And it was so big going into Houston and Florida, then being redistributed around. And it's basically crickets. And the demand is turned on strong.
Speaker #3: So number one we're looking after all of our current customers . And then taking on some new business from customers that , you know , really need it , that we're close to .
Speaker #3: And then we're trying to turn on our production , you know , as fast as possible . These things don't happen overnight , but it's a key part of our business , Kasha , that we're going to grow in .
Amar Doman: These things don't happen overnight, but it's a key part of our business, Kasia, that we're gonna grow in. Frankly, we're very excited about the domestic production made in the US, et cetera, and carrying on with that mantra, and not importing these materials. Frankly, we did import some ourselves as well. That game is pretty much over and we'll be making our own.
Amar Doman: These things don't happen overnight, but it's a key part of our business, Kasia, that we're gonna grow in. Frankly, we're very excited about the domestic production made in the US, et cetera, and carrying on with that mantra, and not importing these materials. Frankly, we did import some ourselves as well. That game is pretty much over and we'll be making our own.
Speaker #3: And frankly, we're very excited about the domestic production, made in the USA, etc. And carrying on with that mantra and not importing these materials.
Speaker #3: And, frankly, we did import some ourselves as well. That game is pretty much over, and we'll be making our own.
Speaker #5: Okay . And then ending on M&A , the Temecula acquisition , is that a precursor to a possible pivot in your M&A strategy going forward towards more of these types of products ?
Kasia Kopytek: Okay. Ending on M&A, the Temecula acquisition, is that a precursor to a possible pivot in your M&A strategy going forward towards more of these types of products? What I mean here is away from commodity wood products.
Kasia Kopytek: Okay. Ending on M&A, the Temecula acquisition, is that a precursor to a possible pivot in your M&A strategy going forward towards more of these types of products? What I mean here is away from commodity wood products.
Speaker #5: What I mean here is away from commodity wood products.
Speaker #3: Yeah . You know , our our electrical division is small . Obviously Hawaii is the big piece . California with Temecula just acquired , you know , a small small outfit .
Amar Doman: Yeah. You know, our electrical division is small. Obviously, Hawaii is the big piece. California, you know, with Temecula just acquired, you know, a small outfit, but certainly key for us. We'll see where that leads. Our leader there will bring us M&A opportunities as he sees fit, and also organically grow certain customers in that field. In Hawaii it works because of also our lumber division. There's some nice synergies we have with warehousing, et cetera, with products. You know, it's not our number 1 growth category, but it's a very, very key business unit for us, or we would not have invested in California. You know, kind of a stay tuned, Kasia.
Amar Doman: Yeah. You know, our electrical division is small. Obviously, Hawaii is the big piece. California, you know, with Temecula just acquired, you know, a small outfit, but certainly key for us. We'll see where that leads. Our leader there will bring us M&A opportunities as he sees fit, and also organically grow certain customers in that field. In Hawaii it works because of also our lumber division. There's some nice synergies we have with warehousing, et cetera, with products. You know, it's not our number 1 growth category, but it's a very, very key business unit for us, or we would not have invested in California. You know, kind of a stay tuned, Kasia.
Speaker #3: But certainly key for us . We'll see where that leads . Our leader . There will will bring us M&A opportunities as as he sees fit .
Speaker #3: And also organically grow customers in that field in Hawaii. It works because of our lumber division. There are some nice synergies.
Speaker #3: We have with warehousing etc. with products . And you know it's not our number one growth category . It's a very , very key business unit for us .
Speaker #3: Or we would not have invested in California . So , you know , kind of a stay tuned cash . I don't think it's an exciting story at this point , but it's a very key piece of what we're doing .
Amar Doman: I don't think it's an exciting story at this point, but it's a very key piece of what we're doing and nice to have a little diversification there on, you know, some product lines. It's a well-run division and good leadership.
Amar Doman: I don't think it's an exciting story at this point, but it's a very key piece of what we're doing and nice to have a little diversification there on, you know, some product lines. It's a well-run division and good leadership.
Speaker #3: And nice to have a little diversification there . On , you know , some product lines . It's a well , division , good leadership
Speaker #11: Makes sense. Okay, thanks everyone. Have a good weekend.
Kasia Kopytek: Makes sense. Okay, thanks everyone. Have a good weekend.
Kasia Kopytek: Makes sense. Okay, thanks everyone. Have a good weekend.
Speaker #6: Thanks , Kasha
Amar Doman: Thanks, Cash.
Amar Doman: Thanks, Cash.
Speaker #1: Thank you. There are no further questions at this time, and I'd like to turn the call back over to Ali Mahdavi for closing remarks.
Operator: Thanks. There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn the call back over to Ali Mahdavi for closing remarks.
Operator: Thanks. There are no further questions at this time. I'd like to turn the call back over to Ali Mahdavi for closing remarks.
Speaker #2: Thank you . Operator . And thank you , everyone , for joining us again this morning . This concludes today's call . We look forward to speaking to you again during our first quarter 2020 financial results call I'll hand it over back to the operator and wish you all have a great weekend
Amar Doman: Thank you, operator, and thank you everyone for joining us again this morning. This concludes today's call. We look forward to speaking to you again during our Q1 2026 financial results call. I'll hand it over back to the operator and wish you all have a great weekend.
Ali Mahdavi: Thank you, operator, and thank you everyone for joining us again this morning. This concludes today's call. We look forward to speaking to you again during our Q1 2026 financial results call. I'll hand it over back to the operator and wish you all have a great weekend.
Operator: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and we thank you for your participation.
Operator: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, this concludes today's conference. You may disconnect your lines at this time, and we thank you for your participation.