Q4 2025 Cmb Tech NV Earnings Call

February 26, 2026

Speaker #3: This meeting is being transcribed.

Alexander Saverys: 2025. My name is Alexander Saverys, and I'm joined here by my colleagues, Joris, Enya, and Ludovic. We will touch upon our classic topics. We'll start with our financial highlights. We will then give you a market update and finish with a conclusion and a Q&A. For the financial highlights, I'd like to hand it over to Ludovic.

Speaker #4: 2025. My name is Alexander Saverys, and I'm joined here by my colleagues Joris Enya and Ludovic. We will touch upon our classic topics. We'll start with our financial highlights.

Alexander Saverys: My name is Alexander Saverys, and I'm joined here by my colleagues, Joris, Enya, and Ludovic. We will touch upon our classic topics. We'll start with our financial highlights. We will then give you a market update and finish with a conclusion and a Q&A. For the financial highlights, I'd like to hand it over to Ludovic.

Speaker #4: We will then give you a market update and finish with a conclusion and a Q&A. And for the financial highlights, I'd like to hand it over to Ludovic.

Speaker #5: Thanks, Alex. And good afternoon, everybody. As usual, we start with a snapshot of our company, where here we've shown you the key metrics of the fleet, 200 0 roughly 40 ships with about a 10.7 billion fair market value.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Thanks, Alex, good afternoon, everybody. As usual, we start with a snapshot of our company, where here we've shown you the key metrics of the fleet, 200, roughly 40 ships, with about an $10.7 billion fair market value. This is excluding the vessels we have sold already. Our market cap sits today at $4.2 billion after a nice run-up on the share. We have $1.5 billion CapEx remaining as from end of January, and operate a modern fleet of 5.9 years. Dry bulk today is predominantly 60% of our total fair market value, with the other divisions showing the rest of the value of the fleet.

Ludovic Saverys: Thanks, Alex, good afternoon, everybody. As usual, we start with a snapshot of our company, where here we've shown you the key metrics of the fleet, 200, roughly 40 ships, with about an $10.7 billion fair market value. This is excluding the vessels we have sold already. Our market cap sits today at $4.2 billion after a nice run-up on the share. We have $1.5 billion CapEx remaining as from end of January, and operate a modern fleet of 5.9 years. Dry bulk today is predominantly 60% of our total fair market value, with the other divisions showing the rest of the value of the fleet.

Speaker #5: This is excluding the vessels we have sold already. Our market cap sits today at $4.2 billion after a nice run-up on the share. We have $1.5 billion capex remaining as from end of January.

Speaker #5: And operate a modern fleet of 5.9 years. Dry bulk today is predominantly 60% of our total fair market value, with the other divisions showing the rest of the value of the fleet.

Speaker #5: Zooming in on the highlights of the Q4, we had a net profit of 90 million dollars. Bringing the full year profits to 140. The EBDA of this quarter was 322 million.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Zooming in on the highlights of the Q4, we had a net profit of $90 million, bringing the full year profit to $140 million. The EBITDA of this quarter was $322 million, to end the year on a $943 million EBITDA. Our liquidity sits at a pretty strong $560 million, and our covenants for the bonds on the equity on total assets sits at 31%, and for the rest of our loan agreements at 44%.

Ludovic Saverys: Zooming in on the highlights of the Q4, we had a net profit of $90 million, bringing the full year profit to $140 million. The EBITDA of this quarter was $322 million, to end the year on a $943 million EBITDA. Our liquidity sits at a pretty strong $560 million, and our covenants for the bonds on the equity on total assets sits at 31%, and for the rest of our loan agreements at 44%.

Speaker #5: To end the year on a 943 million EBDA. Our liquidity sits at a pretty strong 560 million. And our covenants for the bonds on the equity on total assets sits at 31%.

Speaker #5: And for the rest of our loan agreements, at 44%. We've had a pretty remarkable Q4, where we were able to deliver the company at the same time pay dividends again, which we'll discuss later, and strengthen the balance sheet with a couple of actions that we've performed in the company.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): We've had a pretty remarkable Q4, where we were able to delever the company, at the same time, pay dividends again, which we'll discuss later, and strengthen the balance sheet with a couple of actions that we've performed in the company. Running through it, the result, I mentioned $90 million. We had some non-recurring one-off and sometimes even non-cash impact on the results, which are mostly related to the finalization of the integration of the merger with Golden Ocean. There's IT costs, there was also, I would say, refinancing costs that we had to take as a one-off on arrangement fees, success fees in Q4.

Ludovic Saverys: We've had a pretty remarkable Q4, where we were able to delever the company, at the same time, pay dividends again, which we'll discuss later, and strengthen the balance sheet with a couple of actions that we've performed in the company. Running through it, the result, I mentioned $90 million. We had some non-recurring one-off and sometimes even non-cash impact on the results, which are mostly related to the finalization of the integration of the merger with Golden Ocean. There's IT costs, there was also, I would say, refinancing costs that we had to take as a one-off on arrangement fees, success fees in Q4.

Speaker #5: Running through it, the result I mentioned, 90 million. We had some non-recurring one-off, and sometimes even non-cash impact on the results. Which are mostly related to the finalization of the integration of the merger with Golden Ocean.

Speaker #5: There's IT costs, but there's also I would say refinancing costs that we had to take as a one-off on arrangement fees. Success fees, in Q4.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): On top of that, we had roughly $15 million, one five, of non-recurring costs on the SG&A, which is tax reversals and other, again, integration fees from the Golden Ocean merger. The liquidity stands at $560 million, which is quite strong. With the good markets, with the sale of assets, and we'll discuss later, gives us a lot of capabilities to further strengthen the balance sheet in 2026. The acquisition, if you recall, the first 50%, 49% of Golden Ocean, we bought through a bridge facility. I'm happy to inform that it was fully paid back at end of January. There was also some costs related to that of acceleration of arrangement fees.

Speaker #5: On top of that, we had roughly 15 million, 1.5 of non-recurring costs on the SGNA, which is tax reversals and other again, integration fees from the Golden Ocean merger.

Ludovic Saverys: On top of that, we had roughly $15 million, one five, of non-recurring costs on the SG&A, which is tax reversals and other, again, integration fees from the Golden Ocean merger. The liquidity stands at $560 million, which is quite strong. With the good markets, with the sale of assets, and we'll discuss later, gives us a lot of capabilities to further strengthen the balance sheet in 2026. The acquisition, if you recall, the first 50%, 49% of Golden Ocean, we bought through a bridge facility. I'm happy to inform that it was fully paid back at end of January. There was also some costs related to that of acceleration of arrangement fees.

Speaker #5: The liquidity stands at $560 million, which is quite strong. With the good markets, with the sale of assets—which we'll discuss later—this gives us a lot of capabilities to further strengthen the balance sheet in 2026.

Speaker #5: The acquisition—if you recall, the first 50%, 49% of Golden Ocean—we bought through a bridge facility. Happy to inform that it was fully paid back end of January.

Speaker #5: There was also some cost related to that of acceleration of arrangement fees. But this will give an interest saving of roughly 42 million dollars for 2026.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): This will give an interest saving of roughly $42 million for 2026. Quite happy to say that we were able to do this, but that also we were able to repay it out of own cash, but also some releveraging on other dry bulk ships. The contract backlog sits at $3.05 billion. Alex will go in further detail, but we added in Q4, roughly $304 million, primarily on Capesizes and on one CSOV. Happy to tell that there is an interim dividend declared of $0.16. This is roughly $45 million of dividend being paid later in April.

Ludovic Saverys: This will give an interest saving of roughly $42 million for 2026. Quite happy to say that we were able to do this, but that also we were able to repay it out of own cash, but also some releveraging on other dry bulk ships. The contract backlog sits at $3.05 billion. Alex will go in further detail, but we added in Q4, roughly $304 million, primarily on Capesizes and on one CSOV. Happy to tell that there is an interim dividend declared of $0.16. This is roughly $45 million of dividend being paid later in April.

Speaker #5: So quite happy to say that we were able to do this it out of own cash. But also some re-leveraging on other dry bulk ships.

Speaker #5: The contract backlog sits at 3.05 billion. Alex will go in further detail, but we added in Q4 roughly 304 million dollars primarily on cape sizes and on one CSO fee.

Speaker #5: Happy to tell that it's an interim dividend declared of 16 cents. This is roughly 45 million of dividend being paid later in April. We feel that the balance sheet has strengthened good enough to increase from the 5 cents we previously paid in the quarters to a somewhat higher dividend.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): We feel that the balance sheet has strengthened, good enough to increase from the $0.05 we've previously paid in the quarters, to a somewhat higher dividend. This dividend is not yet the dividend that we announced in the press release on the sale of the 6 ULCCs, of 50%. The capital gain on those ships will be taken in Q1 and Q2, and the board will decide on the dividends at that moment. We've had a very active delivery schedule in Q4, 6 new buildings, but Alex will talk about it later. More importantly, for our balance sheet, we were able to, in Q4, Q1, and Q2, already secure more than $420 million in capital gains. That's profit that is locked in.

Ludovic Saverys: We feel that the balance sheet has strengthened, good enough to increase from the $0.05 we've previously paid in the quarters, to a somewhat higher dividend. This dividend is not yet the dividend that we announced in the press release on the sale of the 6 ULCCs, of 50%. The capital gain on those ships will be taken in Q1 and Q2, and the board will decide on the dividends at that moment. We've had a very active delivery schedule in Q4, 6 new buildings, but Alex will talk about it later. More importantly, for our balance sheet, we were able to, in Q4, Q1, and Q2, already secure more than $420 million in capital gains. That's profit that is locked in.

Speaker #5: This dividend is not yet the dividend that we announced in the press release on the sale of the six ULCCs. A 50%. So this the capital gain on those ships will be taken in Q1 the dividends at that moment.

Speaker #5: We've had a very active delivery schedule in Q4—six new buildings—but Alex will talk about it later. But more importantly for our balance sheet, we were able to, in Q4, Q1, and Q2, already secure more than $420 million in capital gains.

Speaker #5: That's profit that is locked in, 50 million was booked in Q4, but in Q2 and in Q1, we have already a guaranteed 370 million dollar profits, which gives us a lot of opportunities for the rest of the year.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): $50 million was booked in Q4. In Q2 and in Q1, we have already a guaranteed $370 million profit, which gives us a lot of opportunities for the rest of the year. We have a large spot exposure, still on tankers, but predominantly on dry bulk. If you look at 2026, we have roughly 53,000 shipping days, from which 44,000 are spots. If we zoom in into dry bulk, where we have a pretty strong feeling there will be a good market in 2026, we have 36,000 days, from which 27,000 on Capesizes and Newcastlemax. This means, $10,000 up on our breakevens brings in $270 million in cash flow.

Ludovic Saverys: $50 million was booked in Q4. In Q2 and in Q1, we have already a guaranteed $370 million profit, which gives us a lot of opportunities for the rest of the year. We have a large spot exposure, still on tankers, but predominantly on dry bulk. If you look at 2026, we have roughly 53,000 shipping days, from which 44,000 are spots. If we zoom in into dry bulk, where we have a pretty strong feeling there will be a good market in 2026, we have 36,000 days, from which 27,000 on Capesizes and Newcastlemax. This means, $10,000 up on our breakevens brings in $270 million in cash flow.

Speaker #5: We have a large spot exposure. Still on tankers, but predominantly on dry bulk. If you look at 2026, we have roughly 53,000 shipping days, from which 44,000 are spots.

Speaker #5: And if we zoom in into dry bulk, where we have a pretty strong feeling that it will be a good market in 2026, we have 36,000 days, of which 27,000 are on capesizes, and new customer access.

Speaker #5: This means $10,000 up on our breakevens brings in $270 million in cash flow. When we look on the right side, we always like to position on the segments we are active in compared to the order book-to-fleet ratio.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): When we look on the right side, we always like to position on the segments we are active in, compared to the orderbook-to-fleet ratio. The bottom segments are compared to some of the other shipping segments on the relatively low side on the order book. When you look at Capesize and Panamax, I think we're very well-positioned to look for better markets in 2026. Looking at the CapEx program, it's a recurring slide we like to show. As of end of January, we have roughly $1.5 billion remaining CapEx, from which $216 will come from our own cash. You can see in this slide, which is quite interesting, is that the next 12 months will be a heavy delivery schedule.

Ludovic Saverys: When we look on the right side, we always like to position on the segments we are active in, compared to the orderbook-to-fleet ratio. The bottom segments are compared to some of the other shipping segments on the relatively low side on the order book. When you look at Capesize and Panamax, I think we're very well-positioned to look for better markets in 2026. Looking at the CapEx program, it's a recurring slide we like to show. As of end of January, we have roughly $1.5 billion remaining CapEx, from which $216 will come from our own cash. You can see in this slide, which is quite interesting, is that the next 12 months will be a heavy delivery schedule.

Speaker #5: The bottom segments are compared to some of the other shipping segments on the relatively low side on the order book. When you look at Cape size and Panamax, I think we're very well positioned to look for better markets in 2026.

Speaker #5: Looking at the capex program, it's a recurring slide. We like to show as of end of January, we have roughly 1.5 billion in remaining capex, from which 216 will come from our own cash.

Speaker #5: You can see in this slide, which is quite interesting, is that 20 the next 12 months will be heavy delivery schedule, roughly 1.2 billion dollars will be paid to the yards.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Roughly $1.2 billion will be paid to the yards. All the financing has been secured. If we look at the cash from the sale of the VLCC and Capesize, we're already done. The whole CapEx has been taken care of. This also shows that within 12 months, every sale, every cash flow generation we'll have, will give us the opportunity again to look at dividends, delever further in an even more accelerated way. The free cash flow, we've given a estimation based on the hypothetical rates that you see on the bottom right. I think we're still pretty conservative if you look at today's markets.

Ludovic Saverys: Roughly $1.2 billion will be paid to the yards. All the financing has been secured. If we look at the cash from the sale of the VLCC and Capesize, we're already done. The whole CapEx has been taken care of. This also shows that within 12 months, every sale, every cash flow generation we'll have, will give us the opportunity again to look at dividends, delever further in an even more accelerated way. The free cash flow, we've given a estimation based on the hypothetical rates that you see on the bottom right. I think we're still pretty conservative if you look at today's markets.

Speaker #5: All the financing has been secured. And if we look at the cash from the sale of the VLCCs and cape size, we're already done.

Speaker #5: The whole capex has been taken care of. There's also shows that within 12 months, every sale, every cash flow generation we'll have will give us an opportunity again to look at dividends, deliver further in an even more accelerated way.

Speaker #5: The free cash flow we've given a estimation based on hypothetical rates that you see on the bottom right. I think we're still pretty conservative if you look at today's markets, but should we have the estimated rates even with a 20% where we're already in today, this would create a 700 million dollar free cash flow on top of the normal debt repayments.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Should we have the estimated rates, even with a 20% where we're already in today, this would create a $700 million free cash flow on top of the normal debt repayments. This gives us ample capability to pay back the Nordic bonds, which we anticipate just to pay out of own cash, continue to fund the CapEx, and delever the company in an accelerated way. This was the financial highlights. I'll move on to the market update and give the floor to Alex.

Ludovic Saverys: Should we have the estimated rates, even with a 20% where we're already in today, this would create a $700 million free cash flow on top of the normal debt repayments. This gives us ample capability to pay back the Nordic bonds, which we anticipate just to pay out of own cash, continue to fund the CapEx, and delever the company in an accelerated way. This was the financial highlights. I'll move on to the market update and give the floor to Alex.

Speaker #5: This gives us ample capability to pay back the Nordic bonds, which we anticipate just to pay out of our own cash. Continue to fund the CapEx and delever the company in an accelerated way.

Speaker #5: This was the financial highlight. I'll move on to the market update and give the floor to Alex.

Speaker #6: Thank you, Ludovic. I want to update you on the various markets where CMB.TECH is active. You see our overview sheet where we put all our markets and zoom in on the demand side, supply side, and where we see the balance.

Alexander Saverys: Thank you, Ludovic. I want to update you on the various markets where CMB.Tech is active. You see our overview sheet, where we put all our markets and zoom in on the demand side, supply side, and where we see the balance. This slide has fundamentally not really changed compared to three months ago. We are still positive on dry bulk, tankers, and offshore. We are cautious on the container side and on the chemical side. If you look at dry bulk specifically, you see that we see very nice ton-mile growth for iron ore and bauxite in 2026, which is a positive. On the supply side, the order book to fleet has grown a bit.

Speaker #6: This slide has fundamentally not really changed compared to three months ago. We are still positive on dry bulk, tankers, and offshore. We are cautious on the container side and on the chemical side.

Speaker #6: If you look at dry bulk specifically, you see that we see very nice ton mile growth for iron ore and bauxite in 2026, which is a positive.

Speaker #6: On the supply side, the order book to fleet has grown a bit. There's been some more orders for cape sizes and Newcastle Maxis for delivery in 2028 and 2029.

Alexander Saverys: There's been some more orders for Capesizes and Newcastlemaxes for delivery in 2028 and 2029, but we still believe it's a manageable 12.4%. The fleet growth this year in Capes specifically will only be 2.3%, and we see the trade growing by more than that. All in all, the balance is positive. On our dry bulk side, in Bocimar, we have 87 spot vessels. There's another 9 vessels that will be delivered to us that will also be traded spot, unless we have fixed a charter. With the addition of the recent charters that we concluded, we have now 16 ships on charter, and that's another 3 new buildings on charter as well, coming later this year, beginning 2027.

Speaker #6: But we still believe it's a manageable 12.4%. The fleet growth this year in capes specifically will only be 2.3%. And we see the trade growing by more than that.

Speaker #6: So all in all, the balance is positive. On our dry bulk side in Bosimar, we have 87 spot vessels. There's another nine vessels that will be delivered to us that will also be traded spot.

Speaker #6: Unless we have fixed a charter. And with the addition of the recent charters that we concluded, we have now 16 ships on charter and that's another three new buildings on charter as well, coming later this year, beginning 2027.

Speaker #6: On the tanker side, the figure in pure supply demand is a little bit more muted. There is more fleet growth than demand growth, at least on paper.

Alexander Saverys: On the tanker side, the figure in pure supply-demand is a little bit more muted. There is more fleet growth than demand growth, at least on paper, but there's a big element of sentiment, and I'll zoom into that when we speak about Euronav, that has propelled the market to very, very high levels. All in all, sentiment is good, earnings are good, the tanker market is still very positive. Our tanker fleet, with the sales of the 8 vessels recently, has reduced a bit. We still have 12 vessels on the spot, another 3 new buildings coming, and then we have 10 vessels on time charter, with another 2 new buildings that will also be on charter, but I'll talk about that when we talk about Euronav. Containers and chemicals, I'll handle a bit later.

Speaker #6: But there's a big element of sentiment, and I'll zoom into that when we speak about Euronav, that it has propelled the market to very, very high levels.

Speaker #6: All in all, sentiment is good. Earnings are good. The tanker market is still very positive. Our tanker fleet with the sales of the eight vessels recently has reduced a bit.

Speaker #6: We still have 12 vessels on the spot. Another three newbuildings coming. And then we have 10 vessels on time charter, with another two newbuildings that will also be on charter, but I'll talk about that when we talk about Euronav.

Speaker #6: Containers and chemicals, I'll handle a bit later. And then just on the offshore energy, which is both on the offshore wind and the offshore oil and gas, specifically on the wind, we are seeing a slight acceleration again of the installation of capacity, which should support our CTV and CSOV markets.

Alexander Saverys: Just on the offshore energy, which is both on the offshore wind and the offshore oil and gas. Specifically on the wind, we are seeing a slight acceleration again of the installation of capacity, which should support our CTV and CSOV markets. On the supply side, we have seen basically a slowing down of ordering new vessels. The orderbook-to-fleet for CTV stands at 13%, which we think is very manageable. Orderbook-to-fleet for the CSOVs is much higher, but again, there is also a lot more demand for that type of vessels, specifically from the offshore oil and gas markets. I want to run you through a couple of slides for Bocimar and Dry Bulk, starting with the overview of what Bocimar has done in Q4 and Q1.

Speaker #6: And on the supply side, we have seen basically a slowing down of ordering new vessels. The order book to fleet for CTV stands at 13%, which we think is very manageable.

Speaker #6: Order book to fleet for the CSOVs is much higher. But again, there is also a lot more demand for that type of vessels, specifically from the offshore oil and gas markets.

Speaker #6: I want to run you through a couple of slides for Bosimar and dry bulk, starting with the overview of what Bosimar has done in Q4 and Q1.

Speaker #6: We have 36 Newcastle Maxis on the water. We have another 10 new building Newcastle Maxis that will all be delivered by the first quarter of 2027.

Alexander Saverys: We have 36 Newcastlemaxes on the water. We have another 10 new building Newcastlemaxes that will all be delivered by Q1 2027. In Q4, we achieved actuals of close to $35,000. Q1, quarter to date, we are at slightly more than $30,000 a day. We have 37 Capes on the water. There, the results in Q4 were $30,000, and Q1 to date, we are at $26,000. These are strong rates, definitely for Q1 of the year. We are seeing rates that have not been as strong over the last 15 years, so we are seeing a very strong Q1.

Speaker #6: In Q4, we achieved actual of close to 35,000 dollars. Q1 quarter to date, we are at slightly more than 30,000 dollars a day. We have 37 capes.

Speaker #6: On the water, the results in Q4 were $30,000, and Q1 to date, we are at $26,000. These are strong rates, definitely for the first quarter of the year.

Speaker #6: We are seeing rates that have not been as strong over the last 15 years. So we are seeing a very strong Q1. We have sold the Golden Magnum and the Belgravia.

Alexander Saverys: We have sold the Golden Magnum and the Belgravia, and we'll record a capital gain of $8 million in Q1. Our 30 Kamsarmaxes and Panamaxes are all on the water. We achieved rates of $17,300 in Q4 and $13,200 so far in this quarter. You can see the break-even levels and what we have achieved on the right side. Just a couple of important indicators on the right side. We see that there's a lot of green indicators, a lot of support for dry bulk demand. Just the inventories on iron ore in China are up, the coal imports in China are down. These are slightly more negative indicators, all in all, we see more positive signs than negatives for dry bulk.

Speaker #6: And we'll record a capital gain of 8 million dollars in the first quarter. Our 30 Camsam Maxis and Panamaxis are all on the water.

Speaker #6: We achieved rates of $17,300 in Q4 and $13,200 so far in this quarter. You can see the breakeven levels and what we have achieved on the right side.

Speaker #6: Just a couple of important indicators on the right side. We see that there's a lot of green indicators, so a lot of support for dry bulk demand.

Speaker #6: Just the inventories on iron ore in China are up. The coal imports in China are down. These are slightly more negative indicators, but all in all, we see more positive signs than negatives for dry bulk.

Speaker #6: Here on this slide, we look at the order book to fleet ratio for cape sizes and why we believe that vessel values could well be supported for the next two or three years.

Alexander Saverys: Here on this slide, we look at the orderbook-to-fleet ratio for Capesizes and why we believe that vessel values could well be supported for the next 2 or 3 years. We basically have put on the right side of the slide the recent number of vessels that have been delivered, including the new building prices that are being quoted by brokers, and compare that to the last time we were in a dry bulk boom. Here, basically, we want to say that as long as the order book is around the levels that we see, this market still will be supported on asset values. We don't see an oversupply coming. The fleet profile for Capesizes and for Panamax, again, is a recurring theme. There's very little scrapping going on.

Speaker #6: We basically have put on the right side of the slide the recent number of vessels that have been delivered, including the new building prices that are being quoted by brokers and compare that to the last time we were in a dry bulk boom.

Speaker #6: Here, basically, we want to say that as long as the order book is around the levels that we see, this market still will be supported on asset values. We don't see an oversupply coming.

Speaker #6: The fleet profile for capes and for Panamaxis, again, is a recurring theme. There's very little scrapping going on. We see that vessels are aging, aging rapidly.

Alexander Saverys: We see that vessels are aging rapidly. We are now at close to 150 Capes that are over 20 years of age, close to 600 Capes over 15 years of age, and the numbers on Panamax are even more important. If the market one day would correct and scrapping would start, this would definitely be something that can balance the market. When we look at Q4 and Q1, the two big themes for us, definitely for our Capes and Newcs, have been iron ore and bauxite. You can see on these graphs, the rainfall and then the volume of iron ore and bauxite that's being loaded in the Atlantic, in West Africa, and in the Pacific.

Speaker #6: We are now at close to 150 Capes that are over 20 years of age, and close to 600 Capes over 15 years of age. And the numbers on Panamaxes are even more important.

Speaker #6: So if the market one day would correct and scrapping would start, this would definitely be something that can balance the market. When we look at Q4 and Q1, the two big themes for us definitely for our capes and nukes have been iron ore and bauxite.

Speaker #6: You can see on these graphs the rainfall and then the volume of iron ore and bauxite that's being loaded in the Atlantic in West Africa and in the Pacific.

Speaker #6: What we have seen specifically with West Africa on the bauxite side, but now also the iron ore will start playing a very important role, is that it is a bit counterseasonal compared to the weaker seasons that we have used to be seeing in the Pacific for Australia predominantly and the Atlantic for Brazil.

Alexander Saverys: What we have seen, specifically with West Africa on the bauxite side, but now also the iron ore, will start playing a very important role, is that it is a bit counter seasonal compared to the weaker seasons that we have used to be seeing in the Pacific for Australia, predominantly, and the Atlantic for Brazil. It is helping our markets, it is balancing the markets. There are more opportunities for large bulkers to load cargo, even in Q1 of the year. As you can see, the rates have reacted very positively to these volumes. The Capesize market fundamentals this year are positive. I mentioned it when we spoke about the overview.

Speaker #6: So it is helping our market. It is balancing the market. There are more opportunities for large bulkers to load cargo even in the first quarter of the year.

Speaker #6: And as you can see, the rates have reacted very positively to these volumes. The cape size market fundamentals, this year are positive. I mentioned it when we spoke about the overview.

Speaker #6: We see a ton mile increase in demand of 2.7% and a fleet growth of 2.3%. So we expect the utilization to creep up. We are already around the 90% utilization mark.

Alexander Saverys: We see a ton-mile increase in demand of 2.7% and a fleet growth of 2.3%. We expect the utilization to creep up. We are already around the 90% utilization mark. This could go to 91%, 92% in the coming months. The big market moves in dry bulk, and then specifically for iron ore, is, well, you can see them on this slide. All the volumes coming out of West Africa, Brazil, Australia. We see that iron ore, according to the forecasts, will continue to grow, so seaborne iron ore will continue to grow. It will come from areas that are far away from the main customer for these goods, which is China, which is good for ton-mile demand.

Speaker #6: This could go to 91, 92% in the coming months. The big market moves in dry bulk, and then specifically for iron ore, is what you can see them on this slide.

Speaker #6: All the volumes coming out of West Africa, Brazil, Australia, we see that iron ore according to the forecasts will continue to grow. So seaborn iron ore will continue to grow.

Speaker #6: It will come from areas that are far away from the main customer for these goods, which is China, which is good for ton-mile demand.

Speaker #6: And you can see that the same story can go for bauxite. We have been very surprised by volumes of bauxite in January. So the number of 184 million tons could well go higher if this trend continues this year.

Alexander Saverys: You can see that the same story can go for bauxite. We have been very surprised by volumes of bauxite in January. The number of 184 million tons could well go higher if this trend continues this year. Very supportive, these two commodities, both in volume and in ton-mile for 2026. I want to say a few words about Euronav and the crude oil tanker markets, starting with our fleet of VLCC. The fleet has been reduced. We have sold 8 of our older vessels as we have announced last month. We are left with 3 VLCCs on the water.

Speaker #6: So very supportive these two commodities both in volume and in ton mile for 2026. I want to say a few words about Euronav and the crude oil tanker market.

Speaker #6: Starting with our fleet of VLCCs. So the fleet has been reduced. We have sold eight of our older vessels as we have announced last month.

Speaker #6: We are left with three VLCCs on the water. That's one 2016 built ship and two new buildings. And then we have another three eco VLCCs coming in the next couple of months.

Alexander Saverys: That's 1 2016 built ship and 2 new buildings. We have another 3 Eco VLCCs coming in the next couple of months. Our fleet of VLCCs is 6 ships in total. You can see what we have achieved in terms of rates, around $75,000, both in Q4 and in Q1 quarter to date. The Suezmaxes, we have 17 Suezmaxes on the water. We have another 2 vessels delivering very soon. These 2 vessels, these 2 new buildings, have been fixed on the long-term time charters. For the spot fleet, we achieved rates, around the $60,000 to $65,000 mark, both in Q4 and in Q1. The markets, there are very supported.

Speaker #6: So our fleet of VLCCs is six ships in total. You can see what we have achieved in terms of rates. Around 75,000 dollars both in Q4 and in Q1 quarter to date.

Speaker #6: The Suez Maxis, we have 17 Suez Maxis on the water. We have another two vessels delivering very soon. These two vessels, these two new buildings have been fixed on long-term time charters.

Speaker #6: But for the spot fleet, we achieved

Speaker #1: Rates around the 60 to $65,000 mark , both in Q4 and in Q1 . The markets there are very , very supportive . Watch the space because the numbers that we have been seeing over the last couple of weeks are way higher than the numbers that we are reporting here .

Alexander Saverys: Watch the space, because the numbers that we have been seeing over the last couple of weeks are way higher than the numbers that we are reporting here. If you look at the key indicators, a lot of green indicators, the market is supported. We are seeing the tanker fleet growing a bit, but all in all, both in sentiment and in fundamentals, we see that the tanker market right now is very supported, and that's probably the understatement. It is more than supported, it's actually very high. The sustainability of the expanding crude tanker order book will depend a lot on the durability and the potential uptick in scrapping. The order book has risen. We are seeing more orders for VLCCs and Suezmaxes.

Speaker #1: If you look at the key indicators , a lot of green indicators , the market is supported . We are seeing the tanker fleet growing a bit , but all in all , both in sentiment and in fundamentals , we see that the tanker market right now is very supportive .

Speaker #1: And that's probably the understatement . It is more than supported is actually very high . The sustainability of the expanding crude tanker order book will depend a lot on the durability and the potential uptick in scrapping the order book has risen .

Speaker #1: We are seeing more orders for Suez Maxes . These orders will not come through this year or next year , but that's from 2028 .

Alexander Saverys: These orders will not come through this year or next year, but that's from 2028. This is something to watch because the market balance will depend a lot on how many vessels we can scrap to make sure that the amount of new buildings that are coming to the market will not distort the market to the downside. The demand durability of crude tankers, all the different agencies have different numbers. It's not always easy to follow. It looks like we are producing more oil in the world today than we are actually using. The only big explanation for that can be that someone, particularly the Chinese, are probably stockpiling oil in great numbers.

Speaker #1: This is something to watch because the market balance will depend a lot on how many vessels we can scrap to make sure that the amount of new buildings that are coming to the market will not distort the market to the downside The demand , durability of crude tankers , all the different agencies have different numbers .

Speaker #1: It's not always easy to follow . It looks like we are producing more oil in the world today than we are actually using .

Speaker #1: And so the only big explanation for that can be that someone , and particularly the Chinese , are probably stockpiling oil in in great numbers , that as long as this continues , it is of course very supportive for the oil tanker markets , depending on what will happen in the next six months , both with the oil price and on geopolitics , of course , all these scenarios can be rewritten , but for the time being , what we're seeing is an oversupplied oil market whereby the oversupply is absorbed in stockpiling .

Alexander Saverys: That as long as this continues, it is, of course, very supportive for the oil tanker markets, depending on what will happen in the next 6 months, both with the oil price and on geopolitics, of course, all these scenarios can be rewritten. For the time being, what we're seeing is an oversupplied oil market, whereby the oversupply is absorbed in stockpiling. Sanctions remain a very important theme, the Russia-Ukraine conflict, what's happening or what will happen in Iran, and of course, Venezuela. We just wanted to highlight 1 interesting graph on the right side, whereas we see that the Indian crude imports from Russia have gone down after the sanctions that the US imposed in December.

Speaker #1: Tensions remain a very important theme . The Russia-Ukraine conflict . What's happening or what will happen in Iran ? And of course , Venezuela .

Speaker #1: We just wanted to highlight one interesting graph on the right side . Whereas we see that the Indian crude imports from Russia have gone down after the sanctions that the US imposed in December .

Speaker #1: We see, actually, that probably China has picked up some of that slack. As you can see on the graphs to the right, a few words about Delphi's and our container vessels.

Alexander Saverys: We see actually that probably China has picked up some of that slack, as you can see on the graphs to the right. A few words about Delphis and our container vessels. As you know, our 4 container vessels on the water have been fixed on long-term charters for 10 years. We have 1 more new building delivering this year, which will be under a 15-year time charter contract, so we are not really exposed to the spot market. If you look at the spot freight market, it's a downhill slope. We see that the CCFI is actually trending downwards, so spot freight rates are down. Interestingly, the charter market is still quite supported, so not a lot of charter vessels available.

Speaker #1: As you know , our four container vessels on the water have been fixed on long term charters for ten years . We have one more new building delivering this year , which will be under a 15 year time charter contract .

Speaker #1: So we are not really exposed to the spot market . If you look at the spot freight market , it's a downhill slope .

Speaker #1: We see that the Safi is actually trending downwards, so spot freight rates are down. Interestingly, the charter market is still quite supported.

Speaker #1: So not a lot of charter vessels available . Some big liners still fighting for market share and chartering vessels . We expect this actually to go down going forward because there is still a very significant order book to be delivered .

Alexander Saverys: Some big liners still fighting for market share and chartering vessels. We expect this actually to go down going forwards because there is still a very significant order book to be delivered, both this year in 2027 and in 2028. Bochem and our chemical tankers, we have 8 ships on the water. You can see the performance in Q4 on the right side. There's a mix of time charters mostly, but we also have 2 vessels operating in a spot pool. Bochem still has an order book of 8 vessels. We have 2 product tankers coming this year. We have another 6 chemical tankers in 2028 and 2029. All these vessels have been fixed on long-term time charters, so our spot exposure is relatively limited.

Speaker #1: Both this year in 27 and in 28 . Okay . And our chemical tankers , we have eight ships on the water . You can see the performance in Q4 on the right side .

Speaker #1: So there's a mix of time , charters , mostly , but we also have two vessels operating in a spot pool . Bochum still has an order book of eight vessels .

Speaker #1: We have two product tankers coming this year . We then have another six chemical tankers in 28 and 29 . All these vessels have been fixed on long term time charters .

Speaker #1: So our spot exposure is relatively limited . And what we see on the spot market is a slightly declining market . Nothing dramatic , but definitely the rates are not what they were in 2024 .

Alexander Saverys: What we see on the spot market is a slightly declining market, nothing dramatic, but definitely the rates are not what they were in 2024. Still seeing okay rates, but definitely things are going down a little bit. I want to end with a very good performing business unit recently, that's Windcat. We have taken delivery of 2 of our CSOVs last year. One CSOV has been trading for the last 4 to 6 months on the spot market, but earning very good rates, as you can see on the right side, the equivalent in Q4 of $108,000 a day. The other one has been fixed on a 3-year agreement for work in the North Sea.

Speaker #1: So still seeing okay rates . But definitely things are going down a little bit And then I want to end with a very good performing business unit recently .

Speaker #1: That's a wind we have taken delivery of two of our kosoves last year . One has been trading for the last 4 to 6 months on the spot market , but earning very good rates .

Speaker #1: As you can see on the right side , the equivalent in Q4 of $108,000 a day . The other one has been fixed on a three year agreement for in the North Sea .

Speaker #1: We still have another four kosoves coming and one larger size of a CSV Excel this year and next . But the market is very supportive and it's supported because the oil and gas market requires good modern offshore supply vessels and these good modern offshore supply vessels in some instances were earmarked for the wind business .

Alexander Saverys: We still have another 4 CSOVs coming and one larger CSOV, a CSOV XL, this year and next. The market is very supported. It's supported because the oil and gas market requires good, modern offshore supply vessels. These good modern offshore supply vessels, in some instances, were earmarked for the wind business, but actually can now earn better rates in oil and gas, and that is where they are going. On the wind market, we're actually seeing some positive evolutions as well. Last year was a bit slow in terms of delivery of new projects. In North Sea, in Europe, we are seeing new projects coming on stream this year and next, which will necessitate demand for CSOVs and CTVs. CTVs, we have a large fleet of close to 60 vessels on the water.

Speaker #1: But actually can now earn better rates in oil and gas . And that is where they are going on the wind market . We're actually seeing some positive evolutions as well .

Speaker #1: Last year was a bit slow in terms of delivery of new projects , but in North Sea in Europe , we are seeing new projects coming on stream this year and next , which will necessitate demand for coves and ctvs Ctvs .

Speaker #1: We have a large fleet of close to 60 vessels on the water . You can see the rates that we achieved . We definitely are satisfied with the rates that we achieved and are looking forward for probably a better 2026 than 2025 .

Alexander Saverys: You can see the rates that we achieved. We definitely are satisfied with the rates that we achieved and are looking forward for probably a better 2026 than 2025. This ends our market updates. I'd now like to hand it over to Enya for the Q&A.

Speaker #1: So this ends are market updates are now like to hand it over to Enya for the Q&A .

Speaker #2: Thank you Alexander . We will now start taking the questions . So if you would like to ask a question , please raise your hand .

Enya Derkinderen: Thank you, Alexander. We will now start taking the questions. If you would like to ask a question, please raise your hands. Make sure to introduce yourself and unmute before asking your question. If you can't unmute, we have the Q&A section available, and you can also always send an email to Yoris. For telephone participants, please type star five to raise your hand and star six to unmute. We will now start taking the first question. Frode Morkedal, you can now unmute and ask your question, please.

Speaker #2: Make sure to introduce yourself and unmute before asking your question . If you can't unmute , we have the Q section available and you can also always send an email to Iris .

Speaker #2: And for telephone participants , please type star five to raise your hand and star six to unmute . So we will now start taking the first question from the Mercadal .

Speaker #2: You can now unmute and ask your question, please.

Speaker #3: Yes . Can you hear me ?

Frode Morkedal: Yes. Can you hear me?

Speaker #4: Perfect .

Alexander Saverys: Yes, certainly.

Speaker #3: Okay , perfect . On this golden ocean bridge repayment . Is it fair to assume that the strong tanker market helped you with this ?

Frode Morkedal: Okay, perfect. On this Golden Ocean Bridge repayment, is it fair to assume that the strong tanker market helped you with this? Specifically, obviously, the sale of the eighth VLCC must have been instrumental in being able to repay this way ahead of the schedule, right? Also, could you just remind us, you know, the numbers we're talking about?

Speaker #3: And specifically, obviously, the sale of the eight VLCCs must have been instrumental in being able to repay this way ahead of her schedule.

Speaker #3: Right ? So that's and also , you could just remind us , you know , the numbers we're talking about . How large was the bridge facility and what's the net proceeds of this eight plus two caps , I guess you sold .

Alexander Saverys: Yeah.

Frode Morkedal: How large was the bridge facility, and what's the net proceeds of these 8 plus 2 capes, I guess, you sold?

Speaker #4: Yeah .

Alexander Saverys: Yeah. If it's okay, Alex, I'll take that one. Frode, just to remind, we had a $1.4 billion acquisition facility-

Alexander Saverys: Yeah.

Speaker #5: If it's okay , Alex , I'll take that one . So for just a reminder , we had a 1.4 billion acquisition facility Point three .

Ludovic Saverys: If it's okay, Alex, I'll take that one. Frode, just to remind, we had a $1.4 billion acquisition facility-

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): .3. That was the actual exposure we had, fully drawn to buying the first 40% and then another 9% on the markets. Of that 1.3, quite quickly after the merger in August, we relevered the ships of Golden Ocean with the $2 billion facility, and we used $750 million of cash of the releveraging to pay it down to $550 million. That $550 was what we carried since I would say September until two weeks ago, $550, which half of it has been paid with operational cash flow and cash from sale of vessels, and with a little bit of the Q3 vessels we sold delivered in Q4, but also some of the tankers, as you mentioned.

Ludovic Saverys: .3. That was the actual exposure we had, fully drawn to buying the first 40% and then another 9% on the markets. Of that 1.3, quite quickly after the merger in August, we relevered the ships of Golden Ocean with the $2 billion facility, and we used $750 million of cash of the releveraging to pay it down to $550 million. That $550 was what we carried since I would say September until two weeks ago, $550, which half of it has been paid with operational cash flow and cash from sale of vessels, and with a little bit of the Q3 vessels we sold delivered in Q4, but also some of the tankers, as you mentioned.

Speaker #5: So that was the actual exposure we had fully drawn for buying the first 40% . And then another 9% on the markets of that 1.3 .

Speaker #5: Quite quickly after the merger in August, we delivered the ships of Golden Ocean with the $2 billion facility, and we used $750 million of cash from the Releveraging to pay it down to $550 million.

Speaker #5: And that 550 was what we carried . Since I would say September until two weeks ago , 550 , which half of it has been paid with operational cash flow and cash from sale of vessels was a little bit of the the Q3 vessels we sold delivered in Q4 , but also some of the tankers , as you mentioned .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Then there is, roughly half of it, was $270 million, which we shifted from the quote, unquote, expensive $2 billion facility with Golden Ocean, with some Chinese leasing that we did execute last December. That was so roughly $260 million that we did. Own cash, only about $260 to $270 million, on that.

Speaker #5: And then there is a roughly half of it , 270 million , which we shifted from the quote unquote expensive 2 billion facility with Golden Ocean , with some Chinese leasing that we did execute last December .

Ludovic Saverys: Then there is, roughly half of it, was $270 million, which we shifted from the quote, unquote, expensive $2 billion facility with Golden Ocean, with some Chinese leasing that we did execute last December. That was so roughly $260 million that we did. Own cash, only about $260 to $270 million, on that.

Speaker #5: And that was so roughly $250 million that we did so on cash , only about 260 , $270 million on that . And I think the the sale of the tanker , especially the six plus two capes , and then the remaining two has even further strengthened , I think the belief in the board to pay more dividends , deliver more , and then also get a comfort on on the Nordic bonds for the remaining of the year that the cash out of the eight tankers was roughly 420 million cash .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): I think the sale of the tankers, especially the 6 plus 2 Capes and then the remaining 2, has even further strengthened, I think, the belief in the board to pay more dividends, delever more, and then also get a comfort on the Nordic bonds for the remaining of the year. That the cash out of the 8 tankers was roughly $420 million cash. That obviously gives a good opportunities to do all of the above that we mentioned.

Ludovic Saverys: I think the sale of the tankers, especially the 6 plus 2 Capes and then the remaining 2, has even further strengthened, I think, the belief in the board to pay more dividends, delever more, and then also get a comfort on the Nordic bonds for the remaining of the year. That the cash out of the 8 tankers was roughly $420 million cash. That obviously gives a good opportunities to do all of the above that we mentioned.

Speaker #5: So that obviously gives a good opportunities to to do all of the above that we mentioned .

Speaker #3: Right . So is it still that the target is to bring down the LTV net LTV to around 50% ? And at that point .

Frode Morkedal: Right. Is it still that the target is to bring down the LTV, and net LTV to around 50%? At that point-

Speaker #4: You

Speaker #3: You could

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Yes.

Ludovic Saverys: Yes.

Frode Morkedal: You could.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Well, at that point, Frode, I think the targets, the long-term target is to have a 50% LTV. The LTV today and end of December was roughly 55%. Now, with the increase in tanker rates, in tanker value, sorry, as everybody has seen in the market, we're probably already at those levels. That is the target.

Ludovic Saverys: Well, at that point, Frode, I think the targets, the long-term target is to have a 50% LTV. The LTV today and end of December was roughly 55%. Now, with the increase in tanker rates, in tanker value, sorry, as everybody has seen in the market, we're probably already at those levels. That is the target.

Speaker #5: At that point , I think the the targets , the long term target is to have a 50% LTV . The LTV today and end of December was roughly 55% .

Speaker #5: Now , with the increase in tanker rates and tanker value , sorry , as everybody has seen in the market , we're probably already at those levels .

Speaker #5: But that is a target. I think it's more important to say, what are the opportunities with every dollar that comes in from sale or operational cash?

Frode Morkedal: Yeah.

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): I think it's more important to say, what are the opportunities with every dollar that comes in from sale or operational cash? We stick to the point. It can be dividends, it can be further deleveraging, it can be accelerating the payments, you know, on some of the revolvers that we have to reduce the interest costs. One thing, you know, when you do M&A, there is a cost to it, especially when you do leveraged buyouts. We have seen that in 2025. The SG&A was higher because of lawyers, success fees, refinancing, and hopefully going forward, our interest costs in 2025 should go much lower.

Ludovic Saverys: I think it's more important to say, what are the opportunities with every dollar that comes in from sale or operational cash? We stick to the point. It can be dividends, it can be further deleveraging, it can be accelerating the payments, you know, on some of the revolvers that we have to reduce the interest costs. One thing, you know, when you do M&A, there is a cost to it, especially when you do leveraged buyouts. We have seen that in 2025. The SG&A was higher because of lawyers, success fees, refinancing, and hopefully going forward, our interest costs in 2025 should go much lower.

Speaker #5: And then we stick to the point that it can be dividends, it can be further deleveraging, it can be accelerating the payments.

Speaker #5: You know , on some of the the revolvers that we have to reduce the interest costs . Because one thing you know , when you do M&A , there is a cost of it , especially when you do leveraged buyouts .

Speaker #5: And we have seen that in 2025 . The SG&A was higher because of lawyer success fees , refinancing and hopefully going forward , our interest costs in 25 should go much lower .

Speaker #5: That is because there is no more bridge , because we are changing expensive or more expensive bank debt . Sometimes with Chinese leasing and other cheaper , I would say instruments

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): That is because there are no more bridge, because we are changing expensive or more expensive bank debt, sometimes with Chinese leasing and other cheaper, I would say instruments.

Ludovic Saverys: That is because there are no more bridge, because we are changing expensive or more expensive bank debt, sometimes with Chinese leasing and other cheaper, I would say instruments.

Speaker #3: Right ? So is it fair to assume that you would probably wait for the bond maturity or some type of refinancing before you step up the dividend payments ?

Frode Morkedal: Right. Is it fair to assume that you would probably wait for the bond maturity or some type of refinancing before you step up the dividend payments, even if you are probably approaching 50% earlier than this, right?

Speaker #3: Even if you are probably approaching 50% earlier than this right ?

Speaker #5: I think the the decision of the board of the 16 cent that we paid today is , is testimony that I think we can do both paying dividends , both delevering and both continuing to delivering all our new builds .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): I think the decision of the boards, of the $0.16 that we paid today is testimony that I think we can do both paying dividends, both delivering, and both continuing to delivering all our new builds.

Ludovic Saverys: I think the decision of the boards, of the $0.16 that we paid today is testimony that I think we can do both paying dividends, both delivering, and both continuing to delivering all our new builds.

Speaker #3: Great . Final question is on any what you see about investment opportunities , you know , specifically new builds , I guess , for example , in tankers , I mean , I'm hearing it's starting to get .

Frode Morkedal: Great. Final question is on NA. What do you see about investment opportunities? You know, specifically new builds, I guess. For example, in tankers, I mean, I'm hearing it's starting to get tempting to start ordering the VLCCs, right? Because you can, you know, order at $120 something million, and the prompt resale is $40 to 50 million higher. That type of, let's say, arb is opening up, and maybe that is interesting. What's your view?

Speaker #3: Tempting to start ordering vlccs , right ? Because you can , you know , order a 120 something million and the prompt resale is 40 to 50 million higher .

Speaker #3: So that type of , let's say ARB is opening up and maybe that is interesting . What's your view

Alexander Saverys: Our view is that the ship you order today at $120 million delivers in 2029. Today it might look cheap, in 2029, it might look very expensive. Right now, Frode, we are not actively pursuing tanker new building plans. We are, of course, opportunistic. We will look at any possibility that comes across. Right now, we'd rather enjoy the spot market and not order any tankers.

Speaker #1: Our view is that the ship you order today , 120 million , delivers in 2029 . So today it might look cheap , in 2029 might look very expensive right now we are not actively pursuing tanker new building plans .

Speaker #1: We are of course opportunistic . We will look at any possibility that comes across . But right now , right now we'd rather enjoy the spot market and not order any tankers

Speaker #3: Great . Thank you for that .

Frode Morkedal: Great. Thank you for that.

Speaker #4: Thanks .

Alexander Saverys: Thanks.

Enya Derkinderen: The next one is Peter Houben. You may now unmute and ask your question, please.

Speaker #2: The next one is Peter Horgan . You may now unmute and ask your question . Please

Enya Derkinderen: The next one is Peter Houben. You may now unmute and ask your question, please.

Speaker #6: Good afternoon everyone . Thank you for taking my question in terms of well , I suppose turning through this question upside down , you still have tankers , although now it's predominantly suezmax tankers .

Peter Houben: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. In terms of. Well, I suppose I'm turning through this question upside down. You still have tankers, although now it's predominantly Supramax tankers, obviously. Would you consider to sell some of those in order to, well, do the combination of further paying down debts and dividends?

[Analyst 1]: Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. In terms of. Well, I suppose I'm turning through this question upside down. You still have tankers, although now it's predominantly Supramax tankers, obviously. Would you consider to sell some of those in order to, well, do the combination of further paying down debts and dividends?

Speaker #6: Obviously . Would you consider to to to sell some of those in order to . Well , do the combination of further paying down debt and , and dividends

Speaker #1: Well , yes . Peter , look , the first thing we wanted to do over the last year and a half is to sell our older vessels .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Well, yes, Peter, look, the first thing we wanted to do over the last year and a half is to sell our older vessels. I think we've done a good job at that so far. Obviously, we still maybe have one or two older vessels that could be up for sale. The second thing is, if we see an exceptionally high price for any assets, we will always look at it.

Alexander Saverys: Well, yes, Peter, look, the first thing we wanted to do over the last year and a half is to sell our older vessels. I think we've done a good job at that so far. Obviously, we still maybe have one or two older vessels that could be up for sale. The second thing is, if we see an exceptionally high price for any assets, we will always look at it.

Speaker #1: I think we've done a good job at that . So far . So obviously we still maybe have 1 or 2 older vessels that could be up for sale .

Speaker #1: The second thing is , if we see an exceptionally high price for any asset , we will always look at it . Look , trading ships , buying and selling ships is part of our business and where where we like to keep our younger vessels .

Alexander Saverys: Look, trading ships, buying and selling ships is part of our business. Where we like to keep our younger vessels, we will never say no to a very high price. Do we need it to deliver? No. That I would say, I think the heavy lifting on delivering has been done. I think operational cash flows can bring us to a very comfortable leverage over the next 9 months. We will always be ship traders. If someone comes with a very high price on any assets, we will look at it.

Speaker #1: We were never say no to a very high price . Do we need it to deliver no . That I would say . I think the heavy lifting on , on on delivering has been done .

Speaker #1: I think operational cash flows can bring us to a very comfortable leverage over the next nine months , but we will always be ship traders .

Speaker #1: If someone comes with a very high price on any asset , we will look at it

Speaker #6: Understood . And in terms of your your dry book fleet , sort of the same question there , I suppose we've seen how the market has appreciated your , your , your sales and and the communicated increase in dividends .

Peter Houben: Understood. In terms of your Bocimar fleet, sort of the same question there. I suppose we've seen how the market has appreciated your sales and the communicated increase in dividends. On the Capesize fleet, there are, I suppose, more opportunities still to sell all the ships. Is that done now or is that still on the table? I know that you say that you sell at the right price. That's true to all of us, I would say. In light of the very strong tanker markets and increasingly strong Bocimar markets, I would...

[Analyst 1]: Understood. In terms of your Bocimar fleet, sort of the same question there. I suppose we've seen how the market has appreciated your sales and the communicated increase in dividends. On the Capesize fleet, there are, I suppose, more opportunities still to sell all the ships. Is that done now or is that still on the table? I know that you say that you sell at the right price. That's true to all of us, I would say. In light of the very strong tanker markets and increasingly strong Bocimar markets, I would...

Speaker #6: So on on the Capesize fleet , there are , I suppose , more opportunities still to sell older ships , but it's is is that done now or is that still on the table ?

Speaker #6: I know that you say that you sell at the right price . That's true to to all of us . I would say .

Speaker #6: But in light of of the very strong tanker market and increasingly strong dry markets , I would well in interpretation of your earlier statements , I would think that you were contemplating to to sell sell more rather than the opposite .

Peter Houben: Well, in interpretation of your earlier statements, I would think that you were contemplating to sell more rather than the opposite.

[Analyst 1]: Well, in interpretation of your earlier statements, I would think that you were contemplating to sell more rather than the opposite.

Speaker #1: No , I think , you know that that is not really correct . I think on the on the dry bulk side , we believe we are not yet where the tanker market is right now .

Alexander Saverys: I think, you know, that is not really correct. I think on the dry bulk side, we believe we are not yet where the tanker market is right now. We think this market has a lot more in it, and we would like to let it run, stay spot exposed unless we find some good charter parties. As you've seen, we fixed 5 of our capes for 5 years, at what we believe are very good rates, or unless, again, an exceptional price comes along. I don't think we're there yet. We're very happy with the dry bulk fleet we have now. We have sold some of our older vessels. Now we really wanna just enjoy the market for the next couple of quarters.

Speaker #1: We think this market has a lot more in it . And we would like to let it run . So stay spot exposed unless we find some good charter parties .

Speaker #1: And as you've seen , we fixed five of our capes for five years at what we believe are very good rates . Or unless again , an exceptional price comes along .

Speaker #1: But I don't think we're there yet . So we're very happy with the Drybulk fleet . We have now . We have sold some of our older vessels , and now we really want to just enjoy the market for the next couple of quarters .

Speaker #6: Okay . Thank you for taking my questions .

Peter Houben: Okay, thank you for taking my questions.

[Analyst 1]: Okay, thank you for taking my questions.

Speaker #1: Thank you .

Alexander Saverys: Thank you.

Speaker #4: Thanks .

Peter Houben: Thanks.

Ludovic Saverys: Thanks.

Speaker #2: Now , Christoph Samwer , you can now unmute and ask your question . Please

Enya Derkinderen: Now, Kristof Samoy, you can now unmute and ask your question, please.

Speaker #7: Yes . Good afternoon Thank you for taking my questions . I have two one on on on long term charters . You've concluded these five five year charters for your cape sizes .

Kristof Samoy: Yes, good afternoon, and thank you for taking my questions. I have two, one on long-term charters. You've concluded these 5-year charters for your Capesizes. Could you disclose the counterparty? Secondly, we've also seen in the market that Vale has been ordering quite some new builds VLCCs. Would your Newcastle Maxes have been competitive for the trade, or were they particularly looking for 400,000 deadweight ton plus vessels for this transportation? That's the first bulk of my question. Secondly, on the America's Maritime Action Plan proposal. I recall when we discussed USTR and the impact or the potential impact of USTR in previous calls, that you indicated that the impact would be fairly limited because you have little port calls in the US.

Speaker #7: Could you disclose the counterparty and then secondly , we've also seen in the market that valley has been ordering quite some new builds .

Speaker #7: Velox . Would your new custom axis have been competitive for the trade or were they particularly looking for 400,000 deadweight on plus vessels for the transportation ?

Speaker #7: That's the first bulk of my question . And then secondly , on the US Maritime Action Plan proposal , I recall when we discussed USTR in the impact or the potential impact of USSR in previous calls that you indicated that the impact would be fairly limited because you have little port calls in the US .

Speaker #7: Does this logic still apply to , you know , the now proposed US Maritime Action plan , or are there like substantial differences there that you see for CMB ?

Kristof Samoy: Does this logic still apply to, you know, the now proposed America's Maritime Action Plan, or are there substantial differences there that you see foreseeing? Thank you.

Speaker #7: Thank you .

Speaker #1: Okay . Thanks , Christoph . So first , the counterpart of the charters that's confidential . So we are we are not disclosing that , but it's a very good counterpart on Valley and they're their large guava maxis .

Alexander Saverys: Okay. Thanks, Kristof. First, the counterpart of the charters, that's confidential, we are not disclosing that, but it's a very good counterpart. On Vale and their large Guaibamaxes, typically, what they like is to do very, very long-term deal at very, very low returns. That's not something we like. Could our Newcastlemaxes have competed? Of course, we would have accepted a very, very low return. That's usually these large projects, we leave that to some of the specialists in Asia. Our relationship with Vale on the spot market is still there. We do business with them with our Newcastlemaxes.

Speaker #1: Typically what they like is to do very very long term deal at very , very low returns . That's not something we like .

Speaker #1: Could our Newcastle Max's have competed ? Of course , but then we would have accepted a very , very low return . So that's usually these large projects .

Speaker #1: We leave that to some of the specialists in Asia and our relationship with Valley on the spot market is still there . We do business with them , with our new customer access on what is happening in the US , Christoph , you will you will agree with me that the only thing we know is that we don't know .

Alexander Saverys: On what is happening in the US, Christophe, you will agree with me that the only thing we know is that we don't know. Things are changing by the day. When you say that we don't have a lot of port calls in the US, that's actually not true on the tanker side. Don't forget, we do quite a lot of business with our tankers in the United States. Under the USTR and all the other regulations, we would have been exempt anyway because energy was going to be exempt. The new package that is there, it's too early to assess what the impact would be on our business.

Speaker #1: Things are changing by the day . When you say that we don't have a lot of port calls in the US , that's actually not true .

Speaker #1: On the tanker side . And don't don't forget , we do quite a lot of business with our tankers in the United States , but under the USTR and all the other regulations , we would have been exempt anyway because energy was going to be exempt .

Speaker #1: The new package that is there , it's too early to assess what the impact would be on our business

Speaker #7: Okay . Thank you .

Kristof Samoy: Okay. Thank you.

Speaker #1: Thank you Christoph

Alexander Saverys: Thank you, Christophe.

Enya Derkinderen: Clément Molin, you can now unmute and ask your question.

Speaker #2: Clemens . Moll , you can now unmute and ask your question

Enya Derkinderen: Clément Molin, you can now unmute and ask your question.

Speaker #8: Hi . Good afternoon . Thank you for taking my questions . I wanted to follow up on Christoph's question on the Capesize charters .

Clément Molin: Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. I wanted to follow up on Kristof's question on the Capesize charters. Could you disclose the rate on the contracts, or is it confidential as well? Secondly, what's your current stance on potentially adding more coverage based on your forward work outlook on the dry bulk side?

[Analyst 2]: Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. I wanted to follow up on Kristof's question on the Capesize charters. Could you disclose the rate on the contracts, or is it confidential as well? Secondly, what's your current stance on potentially adding more coverage based on your forward work outlook on the dry bulk side?

Speaker #8: Could you disclose the rate on the contracts , or is it confidential as well ? And secondly , what's your current stance on potentially adding more coverage based on your forward outlook on the driver's side

Speaker #1: Yes . Thank you . Clément . So no , again , we can't disclose the rate , but I think if you look into broker reports , how they quote a five year cap rate and add a little bit to that , because our vessels are more , more modern and better than what brokers are quoting , then you're probably in the ballpark .

Alexander Saverys: Yes. Thank you, Clément. No, again, we can't disclose the rate, but I think if you look into broker reports, how they quote a 5-year Cape rate, and add a little bit to that, because our vessels are more modern and better than what brokers are quoting, then you're probably in the ballpark. Unfortunately, we cannot disclose the rate.

Ludovic Saverys: Yes. Thank you, Clément. No, again, we can't disclose the rate, but I think if you look into broker reports, how they quote a 5-year Cape rate, and add a little bit to that, because our vessels are more modern and better than what brokers are quoting, then you're probably in the ballpark. Unfortunately, we cannot disclose the rate.

Speaker #1: But so unfortunately , we cannot disclose the rate . Would we look at taking more coverage ? Yes . Answer is yes . We have said this in this call many times .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): ... Would we look at taking more coverage? Yes. Answer is yes. We have said this in this call many times. We think that ultimately, we want to create stable cash flows in our company. We will not do it at any price, but when markets move in the kind of zones we are now, we will actively engage with our customers to see whether we can take more long-term cover.

Ludovic Saverys: ... Would we look at taking more coverage? Yes. Answer is yes. We have said this in this call many times. We think that ultimately, we want to create stable cash flows in our company. We will not do it at any price, but when markets move in the kind of zones we are now, we will actively engage with our customers to see whether we can take more long-term cover.

Speaker #1: We think that ultimately we want to create stable cash flows in our company . We will not do it at any price . But when markets move in , the kind of zones we are now , we will actively engage with our customers to see whether we can take more long term cover

Speaker #8: Makes sense . Thank you . And I also wanted to ask about the dividends on the gains on sales . I joined a few minutes late and you may have already touched upon this , but is it fair to assume you'll declare a dividend on that front ?

Clément Molin: Makes sense. Thank you. I also wanted to ask about the dividends on the gains on sales. I joined a few minutes late, and you may have already touched upon this, but is it fair to assume you'll declare a dividend on that front on both Q1 and Q2 based on the reported gains?

[Analyst 2]: Makes sense. Thank you. I also wanted to ask about the dividends on the gains on sales. I joined a few minutes late, and you may have already touched upon this, but is it fair to assume you'll declare a dividend on that front on both Q1 and Q2 based on the reported gains?

Speaker #8: On both Q1 and Q2 , based on the reported gains

Speaker #5: Yeah , the answer is definitely on Q1 . And again , if you take back fully discretionary dividend policy , I think every quarter we look at it , we had a very good Q4 quarter .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Yeah, the answer is definitely on Q1. Again, if you take back through discussion in dividend policy, I think every quarter we look at it. We had a very good Q4 quarter. We were able to achieve a lot of the internal check the boxes to reinstate, I would say, a somewhat higher dividend than before. The $0.16 was purely on Q4. Q1, we have already $270 million profits, which we announced our intention to pay a dividend on it. That will be decided and confirmed, I would say, on that part, in the May earnings release for Q1.

Ludovic Saverys: Yeah, the answer is definitely on Q1. Again, if you take back through discussion in dividend policy, I think every quarter we look at it. We had a very good Q4 quarter. We were able to achieve a lot of the internal check the boxes to reinstate, I would say, a somewhat higher dividend than before. The $0.16 was purely on Q4. Q1, we have already $270 million profits, which we announced our intention to pay a dividend on it. That will be decided and confirmed, I would say, on that part, in the May earnings release for Q1.

Speaker #5: We were able to achieve a lot of the internal check . The boxes to reinstate , I would say dividend than before . So the $0.16 was purely on Q4 , Q1 .

Speaker #5: We have already $270 million profit , which we announced our intention to pay a dividend on it . So that will be decided and confirmed .

Speaker #5: I would say on that part in the the May earnings release for Q1 and as the market continues , as we continue probably to shift from sales to really operational flow and take out the remaining parts of the Newbuild program and the bonds , it frees up a lot more capacity for dividends .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): As the market continues, as we continue probably to shift from sales to really operational cash flow, and take out the remaining parts of the new-build program and the bonds, it frees up a lot more capacity for dividends. Again, we're not going to commit to a fixed percentage. I think it will be quarter by quarter that we look at, but it's fair to say that it all looks pretty good.

Ludovic Saverys: As the market continues, as we continue probably to shift from sales to really operational cash flow, and take out the remaining parts of the new-build program and the bonds, it frees up a lot more capacity for dividends. Again, we're not going to commit to a fixed percentage. I think it will be quarter by quarter that we look at, but it's fair to say that it all looks pretty good.

Speaker #5: But again , we're not going to commit to a fixed percentage . I think it will be a quarter by quarter at , but it's fair to say that it all looks pretty good

Speaker #8: Thanks for the color . That's helpful . I'll turn it over .

Clément Molin: Thanks for the call. That's helpful. I'll turn it over.

[Analyst 2]: Thanks for the call. That's helpful. I'll turn it over.

Speaker #1: Thank you . Kevin

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Thank you, Clément.

Ludovic Saverys: Thank you, Clément.

Speaker #2: We have two more questions in the Q&A . So the first one is do you expect the Singapore behavior to trigger a regulatory reaction ?

Enya Derkinderen: We have 2 more questions in the Q&A. The first one is, do you expect the Sinokor behavior to trigger a regulatory reaction?

Speaker #1: I don't know , you should ask Singapore .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): I don't know. You should ask Sinokor.

Ludovic Saverys: I don't know. You should ask Sinokor.

Speaker #2: And then the second one is what are your expectations on framework changes after the European Industry Summit

Enya Derkinderen: The second one is, what are your expectations on framework changes after the European Industry Summit?

Speaker #1: I think the theme of that summit was more the industry based on land and not specifically on the maritime side , but I do think it's great that our politicians are aware that if we want to make sure that prosperity continues in Europe , we need to change certain things , and that can only help our vibrant maritime industry , you know , is very strong here in Europe

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): I think, the theme of that summit was more the industry based on land, and not specifically on the maritime side. I do think it's great that our politicians are aware that if we want to make sure that prosperity continues in Europe, we need to change certain things, and that can only help, our vibrant maritime industry, which, as you know, is very strong here in Europe.

Ludovic Saverys: I think, the theme of that summit was more the industry based on land, and not specifically on the maritime side. I do think it's great that our politicians are aware that if we want to make sure that prosperity continues in Europe, we need to change certain things, and that can only help, our vibrant maritime industry, which, as you know, is very strong here in Europe.

Speaker #2: We have one more question . Live . Victor , you , me . Now unmute and ask your question

Enya Derkinderen: We have one more question live. Victor, you may now unmute and ask your question.

Speaker #9: Yeah . Thank you . Hi everyone Had a quick question regarding your leverage . Do you intend to lower it back to pre 2025 or do you have a figure in mind on the leverage you're looking for ?

[Analyst]: Yeah, thank you. Hi, everyone. Had a quick question regarding your leverage. Do you intend to lower it back to pre 2025, or do you have a figure in mind on the leverage you're looking for? Also, on the equity ratio, you haven't moved a lot on this part, and just wondering how far you are within your covenants. The last question, can you give us more flavor on the recent cooperation you signed with China for your new project there? Thanks.

[Analyst 3]: Yeah, thank you. Hi, everyone. Had a quick question regarding your leverage. Do you intend to lower it back to pre 2025, or do you have a figure in mind on the leverage you're looking for? Also, on the equity ratio, you haven't moved a lot on this part, and just wondering how far you are within your covenants. The last question, can you give us more flavor on the recent cooperation you signed with China for your new project there? Thanks.

Speaker #9: Also on the equity ratio , you haven't moved a lot on this part . And just wondering how far you are within your covenants .

Speaker #9: And last question can you give us more flavor on the recent cooperation you signed with for your new project ? There ? Thanks .

Speaker #4: Yeah , sure .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Yeah, sure. Victor, thanks for the questions. On the leverage, you know, we have a target of 50% loan to value. I think we're not far off. If you would take two days value, especially with the increase in tankers, we're there or thereabouts. I think it's about making sure that's combined with the long-term cash flows that you have, but also the opportunities you see. I just recall, we did increase our leverage quite dramatically with the Golden Ocean opportunity, but I think as shareholders, we're all pretty happy that we did. That leverage has reduced, and we're now positioned with another 90 dry bulk ships in what is seemingly a strong market. We do justify that increase in leverage tactically.

Ludovic Saverys: Yeah, sure. Victor, thanks for the questions. On the leverage, you know, we have a target of 50% loan to value. I think we're not far off. If you would take two days value, especially with the increase in tankers, we're there or thereabouts. I think it's about making sure that's combined with the long-term cash flows that you have, but also the opportunities you see. I just recall, we did increase our leverage quite dramatically with the Golden Ocean opportunity, but I think as shareholders, we're all pretty happy that we did. That leverage has reduced, and we're now positioned with another 90 dry bulk ships in what is seemingly a strong market. We do justify that increase in leverage tactically.

Speaker #5: Victor , thanks for the questions on the leverage . We have a target of target of 50% loan to value . I think we're not far off .

Speaker #5: If you would take two days value , especially with the increase in tankers or there or thereabouts , I think it's it's about making sure that combined with the long term cash flows that you have , but also the opportunities you see , I just recall we did increase our leverage quite dramatically with the Golden Ocean opportunity .

Speaker #5: But I think as shareholders , we're all pretty happy that we did that . Leverage has reduced and we're now positioned with another 90 ships in what is seemingly a strong market .

Speaker #5: So we do justify that increase in leverage tactically , the equity ratio , just to remind , we have a pretty low book value , which is , I would say , a victim of our own success because we buy or order quite cheaply and we don't rerate our assets and book values .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): The equity ratio, just to remind, we have a pretty low book value, which is, I would say, a victim of our own success because we buy or order quite cheaply, and we don't re-rate our assets in book values. If you look more towards the value-adjusted equity, which we showed on slides, on the overview slides, that has, I would say, equity ratio increased quite dramatically with the adjustment on fair market value. The bond covenant of 31% in Q4, you don't have to be a mathematician to see that if you add another $370 million of profits in Q1, Q2 on fixed sails, I think that covenant is high and dry, definitely until the maturity of the bonds in September.

Ludovic Saverys: The equity ratio, just to remind, we have a pretty low book value, which is, I would say, a victim of our own success because we buy or order quite cheaply, and we don't re-rate our assets in book values. If you look more towards the value-adjusted equity, which we showed on slides, on the overview slides, that has, I would say, equity ratio increased quite dramatically with the adjustment on fair market value. The bond covenant of 31% in Q4, you don't have to be a mathematician to see that if you add another $370 million of profits in Q1, Q2 on fixed sails, I think that covenant is high and dry, definitely until the maturity of the bonds in September.

Speaker #5: If you look more towards the value adjusted equity , which we showed on slide on the overview slide that has , I would say equity ratio increased quite dramatically with the adjustment on fair market value .

Speaker #5: The bond covenant of 31% in Q4 . You don't have to be a mathematician to see that . If you add another $370 million of profits in Q1 , Q2 , on fixed sales , I think that covenant is high and dry .

Speaker #5: Definitely until the maturity of the bonds in September . And so we mentioned that we will probably not issue a new bond to just pay it back at maturity .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): We mentioned that we will probably not issue a new bond to just pay back at maturity. We're good in all covenants, by the way, and you'll see that in the audited financials end of March. Victor, to answer your question on our investments and our joint venture in China, you know that we are building ammonia-powered vessels that will deliver this year. We have secured an offtake of green ammonia in China, and we have also invested in a company that provides the logistics for that ammonia, bringing the ammonia from the factory where it is produced to the tank, and from the tank with a bunker barge to our ship. That is the nature of our investment there.

Ludovic Saverys: We mentioned that we will probably not issue a new bond to just pay back at maturity. We're good in all covenants, by the way, and you'll see that in the audited financials end of March. Victor, to answer your question on our investments and our joint venture in China, you know that we are building ammonia-powered vessels that will deliver this year. We have secured an offtake of green ammonia in China, and we have also invested in a company that provides the logistics for that ammonia, bringing the ammonia from the factory where it is produced to the tank, and from the tank with a bunker barge to our ship. That is the nature of our investment there.

Speaker #5: So we're good on all covenants , by the way . And you'll see that in the audited financials end of March .

Speaker #1: And then , Victor , to answer your question on our investments and our joint venture in China , you know that we are building ammonia powered vessels that will deliver this year .

Speaker #1: We have secured an off take of green ammonia in China , and we have also invested in a company that provides the logistics for that ammonia , bringing the ammonia from the factory where it is produced to the tank and from the tank with a bunker barge to our ship .

Speaker #1: So that is the nature of our investment . There .

Speaker #5: And for everybody . We mentioned this . This is quite a small investment . We took a stake to better understand , to better control that logistics and to see how that is developing .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): For everybody, we mentioned this is quite a small investment. We took a stake.

Alexander Saverys: For everybody, we mentioned this is quite a small investment. We took a stake.

Alexander Saverys: to better understand, to better control that logistics and to see how that is developing. We're talking a couple tens of millions, but definitely not a huge investment.

Speaker #5: But we are we're talking a couple of tens of millions , but definitely not a huge investment

Speaker #4: Thanks .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Thanks. Thanks a lot. Last question, if you allow me this, do you have a target on the EU ETS price?

[Analyst 3]: Thanks. Thanks a lot. Last question, if you allow me this, do you have a target on the EU ETS price?

Speaker #9: Thanks a lot . And last question . If you allow me this , do you have a target on the EU ETS price

Speaker #1: That I want to pay or that I want the market to go to ?

Alexander Saverys: That I want to pay, or that I want the market to go to?

Speaker #9: That you want the market to go to for your for your investments to be more interesting for our customers .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): That you want the market to go to for your, for your investments to be, more interesting for our customers.

[Analyst 3]: That you want the market to go to for your, for your investments to be, more interesting for our customers.

Speaker #1: It's a very good question , Victor , of course , the higher the better because then they will be more incentive for people to use our assets in European waters Okay .

Alexander Saverys: It's a very good question, Victor. Of course, the higher the better, because then there will be more incentive for people to use our assets in European waters. Okay. Thank you, Victor.

Speaker #1: Thank you . Victor .

Joris Daman: Okay, Kieran wants to ask a question. You can now unmute.

Enya Derkinderen: Okay, Kieran wants to ask a question. You can now unmute.

Speaker #2: Then Kiran wants to ask a question . You can now unmute

Speaker #10: Of everyone . Kiran , from Eng . You . You sound quite optimistic about the wind . The wind offshore market . Can you maybe give some idea about the the the the utilization ?

Kieran Mulder: Thank you, everyone. Kieran Mulder from ING. You sound quite optimistic about the wind, the wind offshore market. Can you maybe give some idea about the utilization, and let me say, the future prospects? Let me say, is it more what you see from your order book, or is it more what you see in the markets happening? Maybe you can elaborate a little bit on that.

Quirijn Mulder: Thank you, everyone. Kieran Mulder from ING. You sound quite optimistic about the wind, the wind offshore market. Can you maybe give some idea about the utilization, and let me say, the future prospects? Let me say, is it more what you see from your order book, or is it more what you see in the markets happening? Maybe you can elaborate a little bit on that.

Speaker #10: And let me say the the future prospects is let me say , is it more what you see from from your order book , or is it more what you see in the market happening ?

Speaker #10: Maybe you can elaborate a little bit on that .

Speaker #4: Yeah .

Alexander Saverys: Yeah. I think the optimism comes from 2 sides. The first side is purely related to the wind and the new parks that will be developed in the next 3 to 4 years. As you know, a lot of projects over the last 2, 3 years have been either halted or delayed. What we do see is that certain projects are still coming through in the North Sea, which will create additional demands for offshore wind supply vessels. We're also optimistic, Kieran, because our assets that we are deploying for wind parks, can also be deployed in offshore oil and gas markets. There, the fleet has been aging, has not been renewed sufficiently.

Speaker #1: So I think the optimism comes from two , two sides . The first side is purely related to the wind and the new parks .

Speaker #1: That will be developed in the next 3 to 4 years . As you know , a lot of projects over the last two , three years have been either halted or delayed .

Speaker #1: What we do see is that certain projects are still coming through in the North Sea . Which will create additional demand for offshore wind supply vessels .

Speaker #1: But we're also optimistic because our assets that we are deploying for wind parks can also be deployed in offshore oil and gas markets .

Speaker #1: There , the fleet has been aging , has not been renewed sufficiently . The quality and the comfort of the assets in the oil and gas markets is much less than the ones in the wind markets .

Alexander Saverys: The quality and the comfort of the assets in the oil and gas markets is much less than the ones in the wind markets. Our assets that are suited for wind are actually in very high demand to serve the oil and gas markets. What we're trying to do over the last six to nine months is basically to make sure that our ships can earn good money in oil and gas, and then once they have done their job, they transition to better wind markets.

Speaker #1: So our assets that are suited for wind are actually in very high demand to serve the oil and gas markets . And what we're trying to do over the last 6 to 9 months is basically to make sure that our ships can earn good money in oil and gas , and then once they have done their job , there , transition to better wind markets

Speaker #10: Yeah , okay . But let me say the contract sizes very different in wind compared to oil and gas . As you might know .

Kieran Mulder: Okay, let me say, the contract size is very different in wind compared to oil and gas, as you might know. Wind, in general, is longer, more, let me say, more, takes longer time, especially, and oil and gas, short time, contracts, et cetera.

Quirijn Mulder: Okay, let me say, the contract size is very different in wind compared to oil and gas, as you might know. Wind, in general, is longer, more, let me say, more, takes longer time, especially, and oil and gas, short time, contracts, et cetera.

Speaker #10: So wind and general is longer . More . Let me say more . Yeah . It takes longer time especially . And oil and gas short time .

Speaker #10: Short time contracts etc. . So it's really .

Alexander Saverys: That's not really true. You see long-term contracts in oil and gas, and you see spot contracts in wind. Our CSOVs have been ordered to operate on the spot market first, and as and when we see.

Speaker #1: True . You see you see long term contracts in oil and gas and you see spot contracts in wind aka SUVs have been ordered to operate on the spot market first .

Speaker #1: And as and when we see longer term contracts and we go for it , what we have not done , unlike some of our competitors , is order these vessels with a charter attached because they're the charters were very , very low paying .

Kieran Mulder: Okay

Quirijn Mulder: Okay

Alexander Saverys: longer term contracts, then we go for it. What we have not done, unlike some of our competitors, is order these vessels with a charter attached, because there, the charters were very, very low-paying.

Speaker #5: It is a little bit similar analogy with the contracts . You know that , yes , they are certain peers that accept , you know , not the IRR .

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): It's a little bit the similar-.

Ludovic Saverys: It's a little bit the similar-.

Alexander Saverys: Yeah

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): ... analogy with the Vale contracts. You know, that yes, there are.

Quirijn Mulder: Yeah

Ludovic Saverys: ... analogy with the Vale contracts. You know, that yes, there are.

Alexander Saverys: Yeah

Quirijn Mulder: Yeah

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): ... certain peers that accept, you know, not the IRRs we would accept. Hence, with the balance that we have, the strength we have, the knowledge in the market, we order speculatively, spots based on long-term fundamentals. Then wait a little bit until, as Alex mentioned, we see good long-term contracts, as we've done on the second CSOV, which is actually quite profitable contract over three years.

Ludovic Saverys: ... certain peers that accept, you know, not the IRRs we would accept. Hence, with the balance that we have, the strength we have, the knowledge in the market, we order speculatively, spots based on long-term fundamentals. Then wait a little bit until, as Alex mentioned, we see good long-term contracts, as we've done on the second CSOV, which is actually quite profitable contract over three years.

Speaker #5: We would accept . And hence with the balance sheet that we have , the strength we have with knowledge in the market , we order speculatively spots based on long term fundamentals and then wait a little bit until , as Alex mentioned , we see good long term contracts as we've done on the second CSV , which is actually quite profitable contract over three years .

Speaker #10: Okay . Thank you .

Kieran Mulder: Okay. Thank you.

Quirijn Mulder: Okay. Thank you.

Speaker #1: Thank you

Alexander Saverys: Thank you, Kieran.

Joris Daman: I think, this concludes the questions.

Enya Derkinderen: I think, this concludes the questions.

Speaker #2: This concludes the questions

Speaker #1: Okay . So I'd like to thank everyone for dialing in today . Thank you for your questions . Thank you for your attention .

Alexander Saverys: Okay. I'd like to thank everyone for dialing in today. Thank you for your questions. Thank you for your attention. You know that if you have any other questions, we are here to answer them. Do reach out to us if you have any further questions, and I look forward to speaking to you on our next call. Thank you very much. Bye-bye.

Speaker #1: You know that if you have any other questions, we are here to answer them. Do reach out to us if you have any further questions, and I look forward to speaking to you on our next call.

Speaker #1: Thank you very much . Bye bye .

Speaker #4: Bye

[Company Representative] (CMB.TECH NV): Bye.

Ludovic Saverys: Bye.

Operator: The meeting will start shortly. Raise hand is disabled. This meeting is no longer being transcribed.

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