Q4 2025 Smith Douglas Homes Corp Earnings Call

March 11, 2026

Speaker #1: After the speaker's remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session. Today we will be limiting you to one question and one follow-up. If you would like to ask a question during this time, simply press star followed by the number 1 on your telephone keypad.

Speaker #1: If you would like to withdraw your question, press star 1 again. Thank you. As a reminder, this call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Joe Thomas, Senior Vice President of Accounting and Finance.

Speaker #1: Please go ahead, sir. Good morning and welcome to the Earnings Conference Call for Smith Douglas Homes. We issued a press release this morning outlining our results for the 4th Quarter and Full Year of 2025, which we will discuss on today's call and which can be found on our website at investors.smithdouglas.com or by selecting the Investor Relations link at the bottom of our homepage.

Joe Thomas: Good morning and welcome to the Earnings Conference Call for Smith Douglas Homes. We issued a press release this morning outlining our results for Q4 and full year of 2025, which we will discuss on today's call and which can be found on our website at investors.smithdouglas.com or by selecting the Investor Relations link at the bottom of our homepage. Please note this call will be simultaneously webcast on the Investor Relations section of our website. Before the call begins, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements made on this call, which are not historical facts, including statements concerning future financial and operating goals and performance, are forward-looking statements. Actual results could differ materially from such statements due to known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other important factors as detailed in the company's SEC filings.

Speaker #1: Please note this call will be simultaneously webcast on the Investor Relations section of our website. Before the call begins, I would like to remind everyone that certain statements made on this call, which are not historical facts including statements concerning future financial and operating goals and performance, are forward-looking statements.

Speaker #1: Actual results could differ materially from such statements due to known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other important factors as detailed in the company's SEC filings.

Speaker #1: Except as required by law, the Company undertakes no duty to update these forward-looking statements. Additionally, reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures discussed on this call to the most comparable GAAP measures can be found in our press release, located on our website and in our SEC filings.

Joe Thomas: Except as required by law, the company undertakes no duty to update these forward-looking statements. Additionally, reconciliations of non-GAAP financial measures discussed on this call to the most comparable GAAP measures can be found in our press release located on our website and our SEC filings. Hosting the call this morning are Greg Bennett, the company's CEO and Vice Chairman, and Russ Devendorf, our Executive Vice President and CFO. I'd now like to turn the call over to Greg.

Speaker #1: Hosting the call this morning, our Greg Bennett, the company's CEO and Vice Chairman, and Russ Devendorf, our Executive Vice President and CFO. I'd now like to turn the call over to Greg.

Speaker #1: Good morning and thank you for joining us today as we go over our results. For the 4th Quarter of 2025 and provide an update on our operations here early in 2026.

Greg Bennett: Good morning, and thank you for joining us today as we go over our results for Q4 2025 and provide an update on our operations here early in 2026. Smith Douglas Homes delivered 780 homes in Q4, resulting in $260 million in revenue. Home closing gross margin came in at 19.9%, and net income for the quarter was $17 million, or $0.39 per diluted share. For the full year 2025, we delivered 2,908 homes, a record for our company, and produced earnings of $1.19 per diluted share.

Speaker #1: Smith Douglas Homes delivered 780 homes in the fourth quarter, resulting in $260 million in revenue. Home closings and gross margin came in at 19.9%, and net income for the quarter was $17 million, or $0.39 per diluted share.

Speaker #1: For the full year 2025, we delivered 2,908 homes—a record for our company—and produced earnings of $1.19 per diluted share. Despite a difficult demand environment across much of the industry, we were still able to grow deliveries during the year.

Greg Bennett: Despite a difficult demand environment across much of the industry, we were still able to grow deliveries during the year, which we believe reflects the strength of our operating model and the discipline of our teams in the field. Overall, we're pleased with our performance to close out the year as our delivery total and growth margin came in above our previously guided range. We generated 532 net new orders for Q4 as sales conditions remained choppy to end the year. While maintaining sales pace remains important to us, we chose to remain disciplined in how aggressively we pursued sales during the quarter as a combination of seasonal slowness and aggressive year-end discounting from some competitors created a difficult selling environment.

Speaker #1: We believe this reflects the strength of our operating model and the discipline of our teams in the field. Overall, we're pleased with our performance to close out the year, as our delivery total and gross margin came in above our previously guided range.

Speaker #1: We generated 532 net new orders for the 4th Quarter, as sales conditions remained choppy at the end of the year. While maintaining sales pace remains important to us, we chose to remain disciplined in how aggressively we pursued sales.

Speaker #1: During the quarter, as the combination of seasonal slowness and aggressive year-end discounting from some competitors created a difficult selling environment. Buyers continued to weigh the benefits of home ownership against their concerns over affordability, which remains a persistent challenge for the buyers despite our leading price points.

Greg Bennett: Buyers continued to weigh the benefits of homeownership against their concerns over affordability, which remains a persistent challenge for the buyers despite our leading price points. Financing incentives remained an important tool in alleviating those concerns and solving for monthly payments to fit our buyers' needs. So far this year, we've seen encouraging uptick in traffic and our order activity relative to Q4's levels and continued to actively manage incentives at community level in order to support the sales pace. While we are optimistic that this improvement can carry into the spring selling season, demand continues to remain somewhat inconsistent from week to week. As we wait to see how the remainder of the spring selling season unfolds, we continue to fine-tune our operations in each of our markets through our disciplined approach to our business.

Speaker #1: Financing incentives remained an important tool in alleviating those concerns and solving for monthly payments to fit our buyers' needs. So far this year, we've seen encouraging, uptick in traffic, and our order activity relative to 4th Quarter's levels, and continued to actively manage incentives at community level in order to support the sales pace.

Speaker #1: While we are optimistic that this improvement can carry into the spring selling season, demand continues to remain somewhat inconsistent from week to week. As we wait to see how the remainder of the spring selling season unfolds, we continue to fine-tune our operations in each of our markets through our disciplined approach to our business. Company-wide build times came in at 57 days for the quarter, which includes our Houston division, where we made great strides in implementing our R-Team philosophy and aligning the local trades and subcontractors to our streamlined building process.

Greg Bennett: Company-wide build times came in at 57 days for the quarter, which includes our Houston division, where we made great strides in implementing our TEAM philosophy and aligning the local trades and subcontractors through our streamlined building process. We have significantly improved our cycle times in Houston since entering the market via acquisition in 2023 and view it as proof that our disciplined approach to home building can be replicated in markets outside of the historical Southeastern footprint. Our long-term goal is to continue to grow volume and gain market share via targeted investment through our footprint and opportunistically in new markets as we believe scale is a key driver of success in this business. We know that our path to higher volumes will not be linear, but instead will reflect the natural ebbs and flows of the housing cycle.

Speaker #1: We have significantly improved our cycle times in Houston since entering the market via acquisition in 2023, and view it as proof that our disciplined approach to home building can be replicated in markets outside of the historical Southeastern footprint.

Speaker #1: Our long-term goal is to continue to grow volume and gain market share via targeted investment through our footprint and opportunistically in new markets as we believe scale is a key driver of success in this business.

Speaker #1: We know that our path to higher volumes will not be linear, but instead, we'll reflect the natural ebbs and flows of the housing cycle.

Speaker #1: As we've discussed before, we operate the business with a long-term mindset focused on maintaining pace and positioning the company for growth through the cycle, rather than managing the business around short-term quarterly outcomes.

Greg Bennett: As we've discussed before, we operate the business with a long-term mindset focused on maintaining pace and positioning the company for growth through the cycle rather than managing the business around short-term quarterly outcomes. Russ will expand on that philosophy in more detail in his remarks. Spearheading many of the company's growth initiatives will be Scott Bowles, our new Regional President for the Southeast. Scott's been with the company since 2017 and most recently served as our Atlanta division president, where he was instrumental in expanding our presence and profitability in this key home building market. We look forward to Scott making a similar impact in his new expanded leadership role. While near-term conditions remain uncertain, the long-term outlook for housing remains compelling as the United States continues to face a structural housing shortage.

Speaker #1: Russ will expand on that philosophy in more detail in his remarks. Spearheading many of the company's growth initiatives will be Scott Bowles, our new regional president for the Southeast.

Speaker #1: Scott's been with the company since 2017, and most recently served as our Atlanta division president, where he was instrumental in expanding their presence and profitability in this key home building market.

Speaker #1: We look forward to Scott making a similar impact in his new expanded leadership role. While near-term conditions remain uncertain, the long-term outlook for housing remains compelling, as the United States continues to face a structural housing shortage.

Speaker #1: Our focus remains on building affordable homes in markets experiencing strong population growth and job creation. Our value proposition includes a level of personalization that many builders do not offer at our price point, combined with the build time that few competitors can match.

Greg Bennett: Our focus remains on building affordable homes in markets experiencing strong population growth and job creation. Our value proposition includes the level of personalization that many builders do not offer at our price point, combined with build time that few competitors can match. We remain disciplined when it comes to land ownership and leverage, and believe that combination of affordability, operational discipline, and a conservative balance sheet positions us well for long-term success. Our strategy remains straightforward. Maintain discipline through the cycle, protect our production engine, and continue to expand our community base in attractive markets. We believe this approach positions us well to continue gaining market share over time. Finally, I'd like to thank all of our team members for their continued hard work and commitment to our company's goals. With that, I'll turn the call over to Russ.

Speaker #1: We remain disciplined when it comes to land ownership and leverage, and believe that the combination of affordability, operational discipline, and a conservative balance sheet positions us well for long-term success.

Speaker #1: Our strategy remains straightforward: maintain discipline through the cycle, protect our production engine, and continue to expand our community base in attractive markets. We believe this approach positions us well to continue gaining market share over time.

Speaker #1: Finally, I'd like to thank all of our team members for their continued hard work and commitment to our company's goals. With that, I'll turn the call over to Russ.

Russ Devendorf: Thanks, Greg. I'll highlight our results for Q4 and full year, and then conclude my remarks with our outlook for Q1. We finished Q4 with $260 million in revenue, a 9% decrease over the year ago period on 780 closings with an average sales price of $334,000. Our home closing gross margin was 19.9% compared to 25.5% in Q4 2024. Excluding impairment charges and interest in cost of sales, our adjusted gross margin was 21% for the quarter. Incentives as a percentage of base prices averaged approximately 6.8% during Q4, up roughly 170 basis points sequentially, reflecting our efforts to maintain sales pace in a challenging affordability environment.

Speaker #2: Thanks, Greg. I'll highlight our results for the fourth quarter and full year, and then conclude my remarks with our outlook for the first quarter.

Speaker #2: We finished the fourth quarter with $260 million in revenue, a 9% decrease over the year-ago period, on 780 closings with an average sales price of $334,000.

Speaker #2: Our home closing gross margin was 19.9% compared to 25.5% in the 4th Quarter of 2024. Excluding impairment charges and interest and cost of sales, our adjusted gross margin was 21% for the quarter.

Speaker #2: Incentives as a percentage of base prices average approximately 6.8% during the 4th Quarter, up roughly 70 basis points sequentially, reflecting our efforts to maintain sales pace in a challenge affordability environment.

Russ Devendorf: SG&A expense for the quarter was $36 million, or approximately 13.8% of revenue, compared to 14.9% of revenue in Q4 2024. Pre-tax income for the quarter was $16.9 million, compared to $30 million in the prior year period, reflecting the impact of increased incentives and closing cost assistance used to support affordability and maintain sales pace in a softer demand environment. Net income for the quarter was $17 million. Given the nature of our Up-C organizational structure, our reported net income reflects the allocation of earnings between Smith Douglas Homes Corp. and the non-controlling interest of Smith Douglas Holdings LLC. Because a significant portion of our earnings is attributable to LLC members not taxed at the corporate level, the income tax impact reflected in our financial statements can differ from more traditional C corporations.

Speaker #2: SG&A expense for the quarter was $36 million, or approximately 13.8% of revenue, compared to 14.9% of revenue in the fourth quarter of '24. Pre-tax income for the quarter was $16.9 million, compared to $30 million in the prior year period, reflecting the impact of increased incentives and closing cost assistance used to support affordability and maintain sales pace in a softer demand environment.

Speaker #2: Net income for the quarter was $17 million. Given the nature of our upstream organizational structure, our reported net income reflects the allocation of earnings between Smith Douglas Homes Corp.

Speaker #2: and the non-controlling interests of Smith Douglas Holdings, LLC. Because a significant portion of our earnings is attributable to LLC members not taxed at the corporate level, the income tax impact reflected in our financial statements can differ from more traditional C corporations.

Russ Devendorf: For that reason, we also present adjusted net income, which assumes a 24.6% blended federal and state effective tax rate as if we operated as a fully public C corporation. Adjusted net income was $12.8 million for Q4, compared to $22.7 million in the same period last year. For the full year 2025, we delivered 2,908 homes, representing a 1% increase over 2024 and marking another record year for closings for the company. Revenue for the year was $971 million, essentially flat with the prior year as the modest increase in closings was offset by a lower average sales price of $334,000 compared to $340,000 in 2024.

Speaker #2: For that reason, we also present adjusted net income, which assumes a 24.6% blended federal and estate effective tax rate as if we operated as a fully public C corporation.

Speaker #2: Adjusted net income was $12.8 million for the 4th Quarter, compared to $22.7 million in the same period last year. For the full year 2025, we delivered 2,908 homes, representing a 1% increase over 2024 and marking another record year for closings for the company.

Speaker #2: Revenue for the year was $971 million, essentially flat with the prior year, as the modest increase in closings was offset by a lower average sales price of $334,000 compared to $340,000 in 2024.

Russ Devendorf: Home closing gross margin for the year was 21.8% compared to 26.2% in 2024. Excluding impairment charges and interest in cost of sales, our adjusted gross margin was 22.3%. The margin compression year-over-year was primarily driven by increased incentives and closing cost assistance used to support affordability and maintain sales pace in what has been a challenging housing environment over roughly the past 18 months. SG&A expense for the year was $139.8 million, or approximately 14.4% of revenue, compared to 14% in 2024. Pre-tax income for the year was $70.9 million, compared to $116.9 million in 2024, and adjusted net income was $53.5 million, compared to $88.1 million in the prior year.

Speaker #2: Home closing gross margin for the year was 21.8% compared to 26.2% in 2024. Excluding impairment charges and interest and cost of sales, our adjusted gross margin was 22.3%.

Speaker #2: The margin compression year-over-year was primarily driven by increased incentives and closing cost assistance used to support affordability and maintain sales pace in what has been a challenging housing environment over roughly the past 18 months.

Speaker #2: SG&A expense for the year was $139.8 million, or approximately 14.4% of revenue compared to 14% in 2024. Pre-tax income for the year was $70.9 million, compared to $116.9 million in 2024, and adjusted net income was $53.5 million, compared to $88.1 million in the prior year.

Russ Devendorf: Importantly, despite the difficult demand environment across the housing sector, we were able to grow closings during the year while many builders across the industry experienced decline in volumes. We believe this reflects the strength of our operating model and our ability to maintain sales pace while continuing to expand our community base. Net new home orders for the year were 2,726 homes, a 3% increase compared to 2024, with an average order price of $333,000. We ended the year with 512 homes in backlog, with an average sales price of $337,000, representing a backlog value of approximately $173 million. Our active community count increased 28% to 100 communities, compared to 78 communities at the end of 2024, reflecting continued expansion across our footprint.

Speaker #2: Importantly, despite the difficult demand environment across the housing sector, we were able to grow closings during the year while many builders across the industry experienced declining volumes.

Speaker #2: We believe this reflects the strength of our operating model and our ability to maintain sales pace while continuing to expand our community base. Net new homeowners for the year were 2,726 homes, a 3% increase compared to 2024, with an average order price of $333,000.

Speaker #2: We ended the year with 512 homes in backlog, with an average sales price of $337,000, representing a backlog value of approximately $173 million. Our active community count increased 28% to 100 communities, compared to 78 communities at the end of 2024, reflecting continued expansion across our footprint.

Russ Devendorf: Total controlled lots increased 14% to approximately 22,300 lots, with the vast majority controlled through option contracts, consistent with our land-light strategy, which provides flexibility while allowing us to grow in our attractive southern markets. Turning to the balance sheet, we ended the year with $12.7 million in cash and $44.1 million of notes payable. Total equity was $444 million, and our debt to book capitalization was 9%. On a net basis, net debt to net book capitalization was 6.6%, reflecting our continued conservative approach to leverage and maintaining a strong balance sheet as we continue to grow the platform. Before discussing guidance, I'd like to spend a moment discussing our pace over price operating philosophy, which is a central part of how we manage the business through the housing cycle.

Speaker #2: Total controlled lots increased 14% to approximately 22,300 lots, with the vast majority controlled through option contracts, consistent with our landlight strategy, which provides flexibility while allowing us to grow in our attractive southern markets.

Speaker #2: Turning to the balance sheet, we ended the year with $12.7 million in cash and $44.1 million of notes payable. Total equity was $444 million, and our debt-to-book capitalization was 9%.

Speaker #2: On a net basis, net debt-to-net-book capitalization was 6.6%, reflecting our continued conservative approach to leverage and maintaining a strong balance sheet as we continue to grow the platform.

Speaker #2: Before discussing guidance, I'd like to spend a moment discussing our PACEOVER price operating philosophy, which is a central part of how we manage the business through the housing cycle.

Russ Devendorf: Our production model is designed to operate at a steady, consistent pace with relatively short construction cycle times and strong presale orientation. That production engine is the core of our operating model, and protecting that engine is what ultimately drives long-term value creation. Home building is inherently cyclical, and during periods of weaker demand, we believe the right strategy is to prioritize absorption and inventory turns rather than maximizing price in the short term. In practical terms, that means we may intentionally accept some margin compression during downturns in order to maintain sales velocity and keep homes moving through the pipeline. Maintaining volume stability allows us to preserve market share, convert inventory, and continue investing in future communities and land opportunities as land prices reset. Importantly, this is not about managing the business for a single quarter. We are managing the company for full cycle value creation.

Speaker #2: Our production model is designed to operate at a steady, consistent pace with relatively short construction cycle times and strong presale orientation. That production engine is the core of our operating model and protecting that engine is what ultimately drives long-term value creation.

Speaker #2: Home building is inherently cyclical, and during periods of weaker demand, we believe the right strategy is to prioritize absorption and inventory turns rather than maximizing price in the short term.

Speaker #2: In practical terms, that means we may intentionally accept some margin compression during downturns in order to maintain sales velocity and keep homes moving through the pipeline.

Speaker #2: Maintaining volume stability allows us to preserve market share, convert inventory, and continue investing in future communities and land opportunities as land prices reset. Importantly, this is not about managing the business for a single quarter.

Speaker #2: We are managing the company for full-cycle value creation. When the cycle eventually improves, the ability to maintain volume and continue investing during the downturn often leads to stronger margins and higher cumulative earnings over time.

Russ Devendorf: When the cycle eventually improves, the ability to maintain volume and continue investing during the downturn often leads to stronger margins and higher cumulative earnings over time. From an operational standpoint, our current environment is not constrained by production capacity. Our construction engine is operating near optimal levels. The primary challenge today is aligning sales absorption with that production capacity, which is why maintaining pace remains a priority. Because of that dynamic, we continue to evaluate pricing and incentives week to week at the community level, and incentives remain an important tool to support affordability and ensure we maintain the sales pace necessary to keep our production engine operating efficiently. The bottom line is that we are protecting the production engine because that is what compounds value over the housing cycle.

Speaker #2: From an operational standpoint, our current environment is not constrained by production capacity. Our construction engine is operating near optimal levels. The primary challenge today is aligning sales absorption with that production capacity, which is why maintaining pace remains a priority.

Speaker #2: Because of that dynamic, we continue to evaluate pricing and incentives week to week at the community level. An incentives remain an important tool to support affordability and ensure we maintain the sales pace necessary to keep our production engine operating efficiently.

Speaker #2: The bottom line is that we are protecting the production engine because that is what compounds value over the housing cycle. While demand conditions remain variable week to week, the early-year improvement in absorption is a positive signal as we move into the spring selling season.

Russ Devendorf: While demand conditions remain variable week to week, the early year improvement in absorption is a positive signal as we move into the spring selling season. At the same time, we continue to evaluate pricing and incentives carefully across our communities and will adjust them as needed to maintain a pace supportive of our operating model. From a broader macro perspective, the housing market has been operating in what we would characterize as a recessionary environment for roughly the past eighteen months, primarily driven by affordability pressures and higher mortgage rates. Looking ahead, the macroeconomic environment remains uncertain. Recent economic data has shown mixed signals, and geopolitical developments continue to create volatility across global markets. We are also monitoring labor market trends closely, including last week's employment report, which showed some signs of job softness.

Speaker #2: At the same time, we continue to evaluate pricing and incentives carefully across our communities, and we'll adjust them as needed to maintain a pace supportive of our operating model.

Speaker #2: From a broader macro perspective, the housing market has been operating in what we would characterize as a recessionary environment for roughly the past 18 months.

Speaker #2: Primarily driven by affordability pressures and higher mortgage rates. Looking ahead, the macroeconomic environment remains uncertain. Recent economic data has shown mixed signals, and geopolitical developments continue to create volatility across global markets.

Speaker #2: We are also monitoring labor market trends closely, including last week's employment report, which showed some signs of job softness. While the labor market remains generally healthy, employment trends are an important driver of housing demand and something we will continue to watch carefully.

Russ Devendorf: While the labor market remains generally healthy, employment trends are an important driver of housing demand and something we will continue to watch carefully. Finally, given the recent performance of our stock, we believe the current valuation presents an opportunity to opportunistically repurchase shares under our existing buyback authorization. With that said, I want to reiterate that our capital allocation priorities remain unchanged. We will continue to prioritize investing in our land pipeline and community growth while maintaining a conservative balance sheet. However, when market conditions allow, and we believe our shares are trading below intrinsic value, share repurchases can represent an attractive and disciplined use of capital.

Speaker #2: Finally, given the recent performance of our stock, we believe the current valuation presents an opportunity to opportunistically repurchase shares under our existing buyback authorizations.

Speaker #2: With that said, I want to reiterate that our capital allocation priorities remain unchanged. We will continue to prioritize investing in our land pipeline and community growth while maintaining a conservative balance sheet.

Speaker #2: However, when market conditions allow and we believe our shares are trading below intrinsic value, share repurchases can represent an attractive and disciplined use of capital.

Russ Devendorf: For Q1 2026, we currently expect closings between 575 and 625 homes, average sales price between $330,000 and $335,000, and gross margin between 17.5% and 18%. Given the continued variability in demand conditions, we are not providing full year guidance at this time. We believe the primary risks to our outlook remain tied to broader macroeconomic conditions, including mortgage rates, consumer confidence, and employment trends. We are confident that our competitively priced product portfolio, land-light approach, efficient operational framework, and growing community footprint will enable us to further increase our market share in the future. I'd now like to turn the call over to the operator for instructions on Q&A.

Speaker #2: For the first quarter of 2026, we currently expect closings between $575 and $625 homes. Average sales price between $330,000 and $335,000, and gross margin between 17.5% and 18%.

Speaker #2: Given the continued variability in demand conditions, we are not providing full-year guidance at this time. We believe the primary risks to our outlook remain tied to broader macroeconomic conditions, including mortgage rates, consumer confidence, and employment trends.

Speaker #2: We are confident that our competitively priced product portfolio—land-light approach, efficient operational framework, and growing community footprint—will enable us to further increase our market share in the future.

Speaker #2: I'd now like to turn the call over to the operator for instructions on Q&A.

Operator: At this time, I would like to remind everyone, in order to ask a question, press star, then the number one on your telephone keypad. In the interest of time, we ask you limit to one question and one follow-up. Your first question comes from the line of Michael Rehaut with J.P. Morgan. Please go ahead.

Speaker #1: At this time, I would like to remind everyone in order to ask a question, press star, then the number one on your telephone keypad.

Speaker #1: In the interest of time, we ask you limit to one question and one follow-up. And your first question comes from line of Michael Rejo with JPMorgan.

Speaker #1: Please go ahead.

Nikhil Kalra: Hi. This is actually Nikhil Kalra on for Michael. Thanks for taking my questions. Good morning. First, would love to get any color that you might be able to provide on sales pace, as well as pricing and incentives, trends relating to both of those factors, so far in Q1, to the extent that you can, that'd be great.

Speaker #3: Hi. This is actually Nick Kalra on for Michael. Thanks for taking my questions. Good morning. First, I would love to get any color that you might be able to provide on sales pace as well as pricing and incentives.

Speaker #3: Trends relating to both those factors so far in one queue, to the extent that you can, that'd be great.

Russ Devendorf: Sure. It really followed traditional seasonal patterns. January a little bit slower, picked up in February, and the last couple of weeks here to begin the month of March, you know, trended even a little bit higher. You know, trending in the right direction. Our community count is up pretty good year-over-year. You know, we were up roughly 28% year-over-year. On a per community basis, it's slightly down year-over-year, but some of that is just also the way we count communities. We've got, you know, I don't have the exact number, but we've got several communities in that 100 community count number that don't yet have full models, and we're pre-selling.

Speaker #4: Sure. It really followed traditional seasonal patterns. So January, a little bit slower, picked up in February. And the last couple of weeks here, to begin the month of March, trended even a little bit higher.

Speaker #4: So, trending in the right direction. Our community count is up pretty good year over year. We were up roughly 28% year over year. On a per-community basis, it's slightly down year over year, but some of that is just also the way we count communities.

Speaker #4: So we've got I don't have the exact number, but we've got several communities in that 100 community count number that don't yet have full models and we're pre-selling.

Russ Devendorf: I wouldn't necessarily look or consider so much kind of the absorption pace year-over-year. I think it's still feels pretty good, even though the absolute numbers may look a little flattish or even down on a pace. Again, like I said, that's more about, I think just the way we're counting communities a little bit. Yeah, the trends so far for spring selling season have continued to move up. Like we said in the prepared remarks, it's inconsistent. We don't see enough of weekly trends yet to say, "Hey, you know, things are great," but so far, so good.

Speaker #4: So, I wouldn't necessarily look at or consider so much the absorption pace year-over-year. I think it still feels pretty good, even though the absolute numbers may look a little flattish or even down on a pace.

Speaker #4: But again, like I said, that's more about, I think, just the way we're counting communities a little bit but yeah, the trends so far for spring selling season have continued to move up.

Speaker #4: But like we said in the prepared remarks, it's inconsistent. We don't see enough of weekly trends yet to say, "Hey, things are great." But so far, so good.

Nikhil Kalra: All right. That's helpful. Thank you. Secondly, would you call out any trends, any areas of relative strengths or weaknesses, across any of your major markets? Any color there would be helpful.

Speaker #3: All right, that's helpful, thank you. And then secondly, I'd like to—would you call out any trends? Any areas of relative strength or weaknesses across any of your major markets?

Speaker #3: Any color there would be helpful.

Greg Bennett: Yeah. You know, I think there's a lot of similarities in our markets, and they all seem to be pacing, and as Russ spoke to our trending on seasonality seems to be pretty consistent across all those markets. You know, we

Speaker #4: Yeah. I think there's a lot of similarities in our markets and they all seem to be pacing and it's rough spoke to our trending on seasonality seems to be pretty consistent across all those markets.

Speaker #4: We've got some new markets just starting off that, as you said, we've got models that are not yet open that we're counting a number of communities in that we're hopeful once models are open, those markets will be at the same pace as well.

Russ Devendorf: We've got some new markets just starting off that, as he said, we've got models that are not yet open, that we're counting a number of communities in that, you know, we're hopeful once models are open, those markets will be at the same pace as well.

Nikhil Kalra: All right, great. Thanks so much. I'll pass it on.

Speaker #3: All right. Great. Thanks so much. I'll pass it on.

Russ Devendorf: Thank you.

Speaker #4: Thank you.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Mike Dahl with RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Speaker #1: Your next question comes from the line of Mike Dull with RBC Capital Markets. Please go ahead.

Mike Dahl: Thanks for taking my questions. Just to follow up on the Q1 dynamics. I mean, you talked about maybe stepping back from some of the aggressive behavior in Q4, but based on your margin guide for Q1, it seems like you may have then leaned back in and hence the conversation about your prioritization of price. Can you just talk a little bit more about what's driving the decisions there? Like, you know, what's driving you to lean back into incentives? And can you characterize, you know, relative to the 6.8 that was in the Q4 closings, you're guiding to a meaningful step down in gross margins in Q1. What is the assumed incentive load, and what are the other moving pieces around land costs and other dynamics?

Speaker #5: Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. Just to follow up on the one queue dynamics, I mean, you talked about maybe stepping back from some of the aggressive behavior in fourth quarter, but based on your margin guide for one queue, it seems like you may have then leaned back in and hence the conversation about your prioritization of price.

Speaker #5: But can you just talk a little bit more about what's driving the decisions there? What's driving you to lean back into incentives? And can you characterize your relative to the 6.8 that was in the four queue closings?

Speaker #5: You're guiding to a meaningful step down in gross margins in one queue. What is the assumed incentive load, and what are the other moving pieces around land costs and other dynamics?

Russ Devendorf: Yeah. Thanks for the question. Remember, a lot of what we were selling in Q4 is gonna close in Q1. We leaned a lot heavier into incentives in Q4. With some of the uptick that we're seeing, you know, in traffic. Again, don't get me wrong, I mean, it is. We are seeing an uptick, you know, sequentially, but it's the traditional spring selling season that we've hit. It's a good trend, right? It's moving in the right direction. But we continue to monitor it on a division by division and community by community basis.

Speaker #4: Yeah, thanks for the question. So remember, a lot of what we were selling in Q4 is going to close in Q1. So we leaned a lot heavier into incentives in Q4.

Speaker #4: With some of the uptick that we're seeing in traffic and it's and again, don't get me wrong. I mean, we are seeing an uptick sequentially, but it's the traditional spring selling season that we've hit.

Speaker #4: So it's a good trend, right? It's moving in the right direction. But we continue to monitor it on a division-by-division and community-by-community basis. And so we are looking where we can maximize some margins, pull back on incentives, but then again, we're not going to sacrifice pace and so as long as we can continue to get the pace, then we'll that's going to be our where we decide to moderate incentives.

Russ Devendorf: We're looking where we can maximize some margins, pull back on incentives, but then again, we're not gonna sacrifice pace. As long as we can continue to get the pace, then we'll, you know, that's gonna be our where we decide to moderate, you know, incentives. Yeah, we're looking probably sequentially at about 150 basis points just in the closings. Again, you know, it's when you look at what we're doing from an incentives on sales, you know, I think it's, you know, we're seeing a similar trend from Q4 to Q1 in kind of the incentives.

Speaker #4: And so, yeah, we're looking probably sequentially at about 100 to 150 basis points just in the closings. But again, when you look at what we're doing from an incentives standpoint on sales, I think we're seeing a similar trend from Q4 to Q1 in terms of the incentives.

Russ Devendorf: The one thing I would add is, you know, forward commitments, the cost of forwards has come down with the rate environment, so that's good, and that'll help us, you know, a bit. We're also looking at, you know, just reducing or discounting, you know, base prices, you know, to get, you know, to get an attractive number out there. For us, it's definitely about payment. You know, we are seeing with our new communities coming online that the average sales prices are coming down. That's, you know, we're also looking at bringing some smaller product online, and that's also impacting a bit of the sales price and margins.

Speaker #4: But the one thing I would add is forward commitments—the cost of forwards has come down with the rate environment, so that's good, and that'll help us a bit. But we're also looking at just reducing or discounting base prices to get an attractive number out there.

Speaker #4: For us, it's definitely about payment. We are seeing with our new communities, coming online, that the average sales prices are coming down. And so that's we're also looking at bringing some smaller product online and so that's also impacting a bit of the sales price and margins.

Russ Devendorf: You know, at the end of the day, we are focused on getting a pace. As Greg and I mentioned on the prepared remarks, operationally things are running very smoothly. You know, we wanna keep our trades busy. You know, we think that's a competitive advantage, keeping pace, keeping trades busy. You know, in order for us to keep building, we've got to keep selling. Again, we're gonna continue to monitor it, you know, from an incentive, you know, whatever we can do to keep that pace. We really wanna get back to a presale orientation. You know, this market has been really very spec heavy. It. That reflects a lot of what our competitors are doing.

Speaker #4: But at the end of the day, we are focused on getting a pace, and as Greg and I mentioned on the prepared remarks, operationally, things are running very smoothly.

Speaker #4: We want to keep our trades busy. That's we think that's a competitive advantage keeping pace, keeping trades busy. But in order for us to keep building, we've got to keep selling.

Speaker #4: And so again, we're going to continue to monitor it from an incentive whatever we can do to keep that pace. And we really want to get back to a presale orientation this market has been really very spec-heavy.

Speaker #4: That reflects a lot of what our competitors are doing. We're still not seeing resale competition come back in any meaningful way. Traditionally, resales are always our biggest competitor, but that's not the case.

Russ Devendorf: We're still not seeing resale competition come back in any meaningful way. You know, traditionally, resales are always our biggest competitor, but that's, you know, not the case. Yeah. You know, it's still hand-to-hand combat. Hopefully, that gives you a little bit of color.

Speaker #4: But yeah, so we're it's still hand-to-hand combat. Hopefully, that gives you a little bit of color. Yeah.

Mike Dahl: Okay.

Russ Devendorf: Yeah.

Mike Dahl: Yeah, that's helpful, Russ. I guess one more clarification and then a cleanup question. Just on the since you're, it seemed like you may draw a distinction between the base price reductions and the incentives. Can you just clarify the 6.8 and then going up 150 basis points? Is that inclusive of both price reductions and financial incentives, or is that-

Speaker #3: Yeah. That's helpful, Russ. I guess one more clarification and then a cleanup question. Just on the since you're it seemed like you may draw distinction between the base price reductions and the incentives.

Speaker #3: Can you just clarify the 6.8 and then going up 100, 150 basis points? Is that inclusive of both price reductions and financial incentives, or is that?

Russ Devendorf: Yes.

Mike Dahl: Okay.

Speaker #3: Just the okay.

Mike Dahl: Okay.

Russ Devendorf: Yeah, that includes everything.

Speaker #4: Yeah. That includes everything. Yeah. So just to be clear, what we're counting in that 6.8 is closing cost incentive, price discounts, and forward commitment cost.

Mike Dahl: And then the-

Russ Devendorf: Yeah. So just to be clear, what we're counting in that 6.8 is closing cost incentive, price discounts, and forward commitment costs. Forward commitment costs and price discounts are contra revenue, so they show as an offset to revenue. Closing costs are sitting in cost of sales, but we add those up to give you a 6.8 number.

Speaker #4: And so forward commitment costs and price discounts are contra revenue. So they show as an offset to revenue. Closing costs are sitting in cost of sales, but we add those up to give you a 6.8 number.

Mike Dahl: Okay, good. Thanks. The cleanup question I had, SG&A, was there anything unusual in the quarter? Because your revenues are running down. Your SG&A as a percentage of revenues have, in most recent quarters, been running up year on year. It was a little surprising to see, like a year on year decline in percentage of sales. Was there anything kind of one-timey in nature around true ups or things like that?

Speaker #3: Okay. Good. Thanks. The cleanup question I had, SG&A, was there anything unusual in the quarter? Because you have been your revenues are running down.

Speaker #3: Your SG&A as a percentage of revenues has, in most recent quarters, been running up year on year. So it was a little surprising to see a year-on-year decline as a percentage of sales.

Speaker #3: Was there anything kind of one-time in nature around true ups or things like that?

Russ Devendorf: Yeah. The biggest driver, you know, we fully expect to continue to get SG&A leverage. You know, obviously that's part of pushing scale. But right now we've got a few things pushing SG&A higher where we're not getting the kind of a matching revenue. So when we've opened up our new divisions, we've got, you know, G&A, SG&A costs coming through in Dallas-Fort Worth. Greenville is still getting off the ground. We opened up Gulf Coast, and then we've divisionalized a couple of. We took Atlanta. Atlanta was getting too big. We've divisionalized Chattanooga out of the Atlanta division. Then about 18 months ago, we divisionalized Middle Georgia.

Speaker #4: Yeah. The biggest driver—we fully expect to continue to get SG&A leverage. And obviously, that's part of pushing scale. But right now, we've got a few things pushing SG&A higher where we're not getting the kind of matching revenue.

Speaker #4: So, when we've opened up our new division, we've got G&A and SG&A costs coming through, and Dallas-Fort Worth and Greenville are still getting off the ground.

Speaker #4: We opened up Gulf Coast, and then we've divisionalized a couple of we took Atlanta. Atlanta was getting too big. And so we've divisionalized Chattanooga out of the Atlanta division and then about 18 months ago, we divisionalized Middle Georgia.

Russ Devendorf: We've got a little bit more G&A, SG&A running through the business, as we've continued to expand the footprint that once we get up and running at full capacity in those divisions, we should start to see, you know, better overhead leverage.

Speaker #4: So, we've got a little bit more G&A, SG&A running through the business as we've continued to expand the footprint. Once we get up and running at full capacity in those divisions, we should start to see better overhead leverage.

Mike Dahl: Okay. Thank you.

Russ Devendorf: Yeah.

Speaker #3: Okay. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Yeah.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Rafe Jadrosich with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Speaker #5: Your next question comes from a line of Rafe Yadrosich with Bank of America. Please go ahead.

Rafe Jadrosich: Hi, good morning. Thanks for taking my question.

Speaker #6: Hi. Good morning. Thanks for taking my question.

Russ Devendorf: Good morning.

Speaker #7: Good morning.

Rafe Jadrosich: Just following up on the last question that Mike asked. The SG&A dollars on a year-over-year basis are down, I think it's $7 million year-over-year, and there was, like, quite a bit of leverage. Just, is there, like, an incentive comp.

Speaker #6: Just following up on the last question that Mike asked. The SG&A dollar is on a year-over-year basis. Are down, I think it's $7 million year-over-year.

Speaker #6: And there was quite a bit of leverage. Just is there an incentive comp that came down in the fourth quarter that then that we should be thinking about reversing as we look at '26?

Russ Devendorf: Yeah.

Rafe Jadrosich: That came down in the Q4 that we should be thinking about reversing as we look at 2026? Just wondering if there's any. 'Cause, like, obviously understand the things that are driving it up, but there was a lot of leverage in the Q4. I'm just wondering what drove that.

Speaker #6: Just wondering if there's any, because obviously I understand the things that are driving it up, but there was a lot of leverage in the fourth quarter. Just wondering what drove that.

Russ Devendorf: Yeah. You hit it on the head. You're hitting a very good pain point for us. We more than hit target on bonuses in prior year. Our incentive compensation was higher in the prior year. This year we did not hit target. It was about half of what our target incentive comp. You know, good. That's a good point. I think you know, kind of to Mike's, and I probably didn't address it 100% accurately. Yeah, we had some incentive comp come down. The offset to that was the new divisions that were not fully operational.

Speaker #4: Yeah, yeah. No, you hit it on the head. You're hitting a very good pain point for us. More than in the prior year, we more than hit target on bonuses.

Speaker #4: So our incentive compensation was higher in the prior year. And then this year, we did not hit target. And so it was about half of what our target incentive comp.

Speaker #4: So good. That's a good point, I think. Kind of to Mike's and I probably didn't address it 100% accurately, but yeah, we had some incentive comp come down.

Speaker #4: But then the offset to that was the new divisions that were not fully operational.

Rafe Jadrosich: Okay. That helps. In terms of in the past, you've given some really helpful color on what you're seeing in terms of land inflation, like what you expect to be flowing through the P&L. Can you just help us, like how we should think about 2026? For land that you're contracting today, are you starting to see, you know, like sort of relief or prices to come down or stabilize? Like, when will that start to be maybe a tailwind to the margins?

Speaker #6: Okay. That helps. And then in terms of in the past, you've given some really helpful color on what you're seeing in terms of land inflation like what you expect to be flowing through the P&L.

Speaker #6: Can you just help us how we should think about '26? And then for land that you're contracting today, are you starting to see sort of relief or prices to come down or stabilize?

Speaker #6: And when will that be? When will that start to be maybe a tailwind to the margins?

Russ Devendorf: Yeah. We're definitely seeing land costs increase in 2026 from what we expect in our budget in closing. Now, again, that's because we're closing on stuff that's got a basis that you know and acquisitions that we've had over the last 2, 3 years, right? You still got some higher costs flowing through there. That said, you know, any deals, and again, we look at this on a deal-by-deal basis. You know, we look at our takedowns, we go back to developer partners where we can and try and, you know, renegotiate. Because look, it's no doubt when we did some of these deals, the market was different.

Speaker #4: Yeah, we're definitely seeing land costs increase in '26 from what we expect in our budget and closing. Now, again, that's because we're closing on stuff that's got a basis from an acquisition that we've had over the last two, three years, right?

Speaker #4: So you've still got some higher costs flowing through there. That said, any deals—and again, we look at this on a deal-by-deal basis. We look at our takedowns.

Speaker #4: We go back to developer partners where we can. And try and renegotiate because, look, it's no doubt when we did some of these deals, the market was different.

Russ Devendorf: I think our developers understand that, and so in some cases, we are able to renegotiate. We are seeing more of that happen. Joe's gonna kind of look at the cost, but I, you know, giving you maybe a specific number on what we think, land cost as a percentage of revenue will look like in 2026, but it'll be up slightly. Just on new deals, new acquisitions that we're seeing, we're definitely seeing a reset happen. You know, we'd love it to happen faster and we'd love it to happen at deeper discounts, but folks are getting more realistic. We are starting to see a reset.

Speaker #4: I think our developers understand that. And so in some cases, we are able to renegotiate. So we are seeing more of that happen. Joe's going to kind of look at the costs.

Speaker #4: But giving you maybe a specific number and what we think land costs as a percentage of revenue will look like in '26. But it'll be up slightly.

Speaker #4: And then just on new deals, new acquisitions that we're seeing, we're definitely seeing a reset. We'd love it to happen faster, and we'd love it to happen at deeper discounts.

Speaker #4: But folks are getting more realistic, so we are starting to see a reset. And again, that's why we talk about continuing to push pace, because if we're not outselling and moving inventory, well, then we're not out buying.

Russ Devendorf: again, that's why, you know, we talk about continuing to push pace, because if we're not out selling and moving inventory, well, then we're not out buying and we're not gonna be taking advantage of, you know, the price reset, right? That's why we think it's real important to continue to push pace through this cycle, because, you know, we'll continue to keep our market share. Not to mention, you know, we should expand market share through the downturn.

Speaker #4: And we're not going to be taking advantage of the price reset, right? So that's why we think it's real important to continue to push pace through this cycle because it'll continue to keep our market share, not to mention we should expand market share through the downturn.

Russ Devendorf: Then when things get better, and they will get better, through the cycle, when we come out the other side, we'll have increased that market share, and then we should, you know, get a benefit from the pricing power that we'll get and the margins coming back out the other side. It is important for us to continue to, you know, work it like an assembly line.

Speaker #4: And then when things get better and they will get better, through the cycle, when we come out the other side, we'll have increased that market share.

Speaker #4: And then we should be the get a benefit for the pricing power that we'll get and the margins coming back out the other side.

Speaker #4: So, it is important for us to continue to work it like an assembly line.

Rafe Jadrosich: Thank you. That's helpful.

Speaker #6: Thank you. That's helpful.

Russ Devendorf: Sure.

Speaker #7: Sure.

Operator: Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Gilbert with BTIG. Please go ahead.

Speaker #5: Your next question comes from the line of Ryan Gilbert with DTIG. Please go ahead.

Ryan Gilbert: Hi. Thanks. Good morning, guys.

Speaker #8: Hi. Thanks. Good morning, guys. Just, yeah, first question, just given the comments around staying disciplined in the face of some pretty heavy discounting in 4Q, I'm wondering how your spec count looked throughout the quarter, how you exited the quarter in terms of specs, and then I guess what specs look like how specs what the spec count looked like heading into 1Q '26 and how you're thinking about it this spring.

Russ Devendorf: Good morning.

Ryan Gilbert: Just, yeah, first question, just given the comments around staying disciplined in the face of some pretty heavy discounting in Q4, I'm wondering how your spec count looked throughout the quarter, how you exited the quarter in terms of specs. And then, you know, I guess what the spec count looks like heading into Q1 2026, and how you're thinking about it this spring.

Russ Devendorf: Yeah. Ideally, we'd love to have everything, you know, under construction pre-sold, right? That's what we wanna get back to. The reason for it is, you know, having a pre-sale orientation really gets you a higher value on those homes from your buyers, right? Because when those buyers select, you know, to go via pre-sale, they're putting in options that they want. We're not having to discount as much, and so we're trying to push more pre-sales. That said, given the environment, you know, specs are probably running about half of our current inventory. But that's okay. You know, the biggest thing is even though we count it as a spec, we're putting those under contract.

Speaker #4: Yeah. So ideally, we'd love to have everything under construction pre-sold, right? That's what we want to get back to. And the reason for it is having a pre-sale orientation really gets you a higher value on those homes from your buyers, right?

Speaker #4: Because when those buyers select to go via pre-sale, they're putting in options that they want. We're not having to discount as much. And so we're trying to push more pre-sales.

Speaker #4: That said, given the environment, specs are probably running about half of our current inventory. But that's okay. The biggest thing is even though we count it as a spec, we're putting those under contract.

Russ Devendorf: We're not getting a ton that are going, you know, past, you know, completion or certainly past 30 days completion. We're really pushing to get those sold before what we call line in the sand or when we, you know, pretty much drywall stage. But again, it goes back to the fact that, you know, we really run it more like an assembly line, like production is the most important where we keep that running. We're trying to match sales pace with that production and just keep it moving.

Speaker #4: We're not getting a ton that are going past completion, or certainly past 30 days completion. And we're really pushing to get those sold before what we call line in the sand, or when we pretty much reach the drywall stage.

Speaker #4: So but again, that goes back to the fact that we really run it more like an assembly line, like production is our production is the most important where we keep that running.

Speaker #4: And so we're trying to match sales pace with that production. And just keep it moving. So we've got the as we look forward to 2026, so even though our backlog and pre-sales are down, not where we want them, our inventory is right where we need them to be.

Russ Devendorf: We've got the, you know, as we look forward to 2026, you know, even though our backlog and pre-sales are down, not where we want them, our inventory is right where we need them to be. You know, production's, you know, even though we'd like a higher percentage of pre-sale, you know, we've got to keep that machine going to hit, you know, some of the growth targets that we expect in 2026. A little elevated, but we continue to chop away at that pre-sale versus spec balance.

Speaker #4: And so productions, even though we'd like a higher percentage of pre-sale we've got to keep that machine going to hit some of the growth targets that we expect for 2026.

Speaker #4: So a little elevated, but we continue to chop away at that pre-sale versus spec balance.

Ryan Gilbert: Okay. Got it. Thanks for that. Just secondly, would love to get an update on your strategy around land in terms of, you know, preference for finished lot purchase agreements versus land banking and how pricing looks in both of those categories.

Speaker #8: Okay. Got it. Thanks for that. Then just secondly, would love to get an update on your strategy around land in terms of preference for finished lot purchase agreements versus land banking and how pricing looks and in both of those categories.

Greg Bennett: Yeah. Thanks for the question. We are almost always first looking to do lot, finished lot takedown. Those opportunities are still out there. You know, secondly, we'll go to our land bank partners and structure the deals in an array of different manners. I would think, you know, if we look to land and to add a little color to some of Russ's earlier comments, we're seeing softening and opportunities in some of the A, B locations that historically for affordability, maybe we didn't get opportunities there or that just didn't solve for our price points. You know, and then the C, D type locations, you know, they're getting shopped around a lot because there's not a lot of demand in those locations.

Speaker #7: Yeah. So thanks for the question. We are almost always first looking to do lot finished lot takedown. Those opportunities are still out there. Secondly, we'll go to our land bank partners and structure the deals.

Speaker #7: And in an array of different manners. But I would think as we look to land and to add a little color to some of Russ's earlier comments, we're seeing softening and opportunities in some of the AB locations that historically for affordability maybe we didn't get opportunities there or they just didn't solve for our price points.

Speaker #7: And then the CD-type locations or they're getting shopped around a lot because there's not a lot of demand in those locations. So we're focused on better locations, focused on terms and then where we need to engage our land bank partners.

Greg Bennett: You know, we're focused on better locations, focused on terms, and then where we need to engage our land bank partners.

Ryan Gilbert: Got it. Thank you.

Speaker #8: Got it. Thank you.

Greg Bennett: Thanks, Ryan.

Speaker #7: Thanks, Ryan.

Operator: That concludes our question and answer session. I will now turn the call over to Greg Bennett, CEO, for closing remarks.

Speaker #5: That concludes our question and answer session. I will now turn the call over to Greg Bennett, CEO for closing remarks.

Greg Bennett: Thanks, everyone for joining our call today as we discussed our Q4 results. Hope everyone has a great day.

Speaker #7: Thanks, everyone, for joining our call today as we discussed our Q4 results. Hope everyone has a great day.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, that concludes today's call. Thank you all for joining. You may now disconnect.

Q4 2025 Smith Douglas Homes Corp Earnings Call

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