Q4 2025 LendingTree Inc Earnings Call

March 2, 2026

Speaker #1: Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the LendingTree Inc. fourth quarter 2025 earnings call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode.

Operator: Good day. Thank you for standing by. Welcome to the LendingTree Inc. Q4 2025 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star 11 on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising that the hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Andrew Wessel, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Speaker #1: After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star 11 on your telephone.

Speaker #1: You will then hear an automated message advising that the hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star 11 again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded.

Speaker #1: I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Andrew Wessel, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Tanya. And hello to everyone joining us today to discuss our fourth quarter 2025 financial results. On with us are Scott Peyree, President and CEO, and Jason Bangle,

Andrew Wessel: Thank you, Tanya, and hello to everyone joining us today to discuss our Q4 2025 financial results. On with us are Scott Peyree, President and CEO, and Jason Bengel, CFO. This afternoon, we posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our investor relations website. For the purposes of today's discussion, we'll assume that listeners have read that letter, and we will focus on Q&A. Before I hand the call over to Scott for his remarks, I remind everyone that during this call, we may discuss LendingTree's expectations for future performance. Any forward-looking statements that we make are subject to risks and uncertainties, and LendingTree's actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Many, but not all, of the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC.

Speaker #1: CFL this afternoon we posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our Investor Relations website and for the purposes of today's discussion , we will assume that listeners have read that letter and we will focus on Q&A Before I hand the call over to Scott for his remarks , I remind everyone that during this call , we may discuss LendingTree expectations for future performance .

Speaker #1: Any forward-looking statements that we make are subject to risks and uncertainties, and LendingTree's actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today.

Speaker #1: Many , but not all , the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC . We will also discuss a variety of non-GAAP measures on the call , and I refer you to today's press release and shareholder letter , both available on our website for the comparable GAAP definitions and full reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP .

Andrew Wessel: We will also discuss a variety of non-GAAP measures on the call, and I refer you to today's press release and shareholder letter, both available on our website, for the comparable GAAP definitions and full reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP. With that, Scott, please go ahead.

Speaker #1: And with that , Scott , please go ahead . Thanks , Andrew . And thanks to everyone joining us today as we discuss our very strong fourth quarter and full year 2025 results .

Scott Peyree: Thanks, Andrew, thanks to everyone joining us today as we discuss our very strong Q4 and full year 2025 results. I will first touch on some of the highlights from our earnings release, then I'd like to take everyone through our 26 strategy before opening it up for questions. First off, we had a fantastic 2025. VMD was up 14%. Adjusted EBITDA grew at double that pace, 28%. Each of our three reportable segments grew VMD at double-digit rates. Insurance again led the way as very strong demand from carriers, combined with our ability to take market share from competitors, generated $174 million of VMD, a 10% increase over the previous year. We have heard some of our peers call out slowing demand for the largest insurers in Q1.

Speaker #1: I will first touch on some of the highlights from our earnings release . And then I'd like to take everyone through our 26 strategy before opening it up for questions First off , we had a fantastic 2020 .

Speaker #1: Five . VMD was up 14% adjusted EBITDA grew at double that pace , 28% . Each of our three reportable segments grew VMD at double digit rates .

Speaker #1: Insurance again led the way as very strong demand from carriers , combined with our ability to take market share from competitors , generated $174 million of VMD , a 10% increase over the previous year .

Speaker #1: We have heard some of our peers call out slowing demand from the largest insurers in Q1. I just want to tell everyone we are not seeing that at all.

Scott Peyree: I just want to tell everyone we are not seeing that at all ourselves as top carriers' budgets with us remain robust, as they're targeting our high-quality consumers. In fact, we expect Q1 to be yet another record revenue quarter. The number 4 through 10 insurers on our network grew revenue by 65% with us in 2025 from the previous year, a testament to the strength and breadth of partners in our marketplace. Insurance gathered strength as the year progressed, finishing with record performance in the Q4 that was just ahead of our previous record the year ago period. The momentum has carried through the start of 2026, and we expect another record year from the insurance division this year. Consumer group segment profit by 17% last year, anchored by a 60% revenue growth from our small business team.

Speaker #1: Ourselves as top carriers , budgets with us remain robust as are targeting our high quality consumers . In fact , we expect Q1 to be yet another record revenue quarter .

Speaker #1: The number four through ten insurers on our network grew revenue by 65% , with us in 25 from the previous year , a testament to the strength and breadth of partners in our marketplace Insurance gathered strength as the year progressed , finishing with record performance in the fourth quarter that was just ahead of our previous record the year ago period .

Speaker #1: The momentum is carried through the start of 26 , and we expect another record year from from the insurance division this year Consumer segment products , consumer grew segment profit by 17% last year , anchored by a 60% revenue growth from our small business team .

Speaker #1: Similar to the insurance segment, our Consumer group of businesses strengthened throughout the course of the year, with segment profit increasing 24% in Q4 from the prior year and Small Business revenue growing a remarkable 78% year over year. Importantly, we have not sacrificed margin to generate this growth.

Scott Peyree: Similar to the insurance segment, our consumer group of businesses strengthened throughout the course of the year, with segment profit increasing 24% in Q4 from the prior year and small business revenue growing a remarkable 78% year-over-year. Importantly, we have not sacrificed margin to generate this growth. As segment margin for both the quarter and full year was stable at 51%. As a reminder, we have continually invested in additions to our small business concierge sales force, allowing us, you know, as well as lenders on the network, to help a greater number of business owners find the best loan options for them while guiding them through the often complex process of completing their application through to funding. Continuing to build out this team is in our plans for 2026.

Speaker #1: This segment margin for both the quarter and full year was stable at 51% . As a reminder , we have continually invested in additions to our small business concierge sales force , allowing us , you know , as well as lenders on the network , allowing us to help a greater number of business owners find the best loan options for them while guiding them through the often complex process of completing their application through through to funding Continuing the build out of this team is in our plans for 26 .

Speaker #1: The home segment recorded 6% year over year in revenue growth in revenue for the fourth quarter , although increasing media costs and lower conversion rates for our linear partners pressured segment margins The national 30 year mortgage rate just dipped below 6% for the first time since 2022 .

Scott Peyree: The home segment recorded 6% year-over-year growth in revenue for Q4, although increasing media costs and lower conversion rates for our lender partners pressured segment margins. The national 30-year mortgage rate just dipped below 6% for the first time since 2022. We are hopeful lower rates will finally start to unlock which has been a historically slow mortgage market. The guidance we published today does not assume any continued improvement in rates. We hope this means our home segment forecast will end up being conservative. The pace of AI and AI-enabled search innovation has continued to accelerate.

Speaker #1: We were hopeful lower rates will finally start to unlock what is historically been a , which has been a historically low mortgage market .

Speaker #1: The guidance we published today does not assume any continued improvement in rates , so we hope this means our home segment forecast will end up being conservative .

Speaker #1: The pace of AI and AI enabled search innovation has continued to accelerate . As I have said on previous calls , we view these new tools as fantastic opportunities for our business and are a key component of the strategy we have developed to increase the number of high intent visitors to our sites to compare and shop for financial products .

Scott Peyree: As I have said on previous calls, we view these new tools as fantastic opportunities for our business and are a key component of the strategy we have developed to increase the number of high-intent visitors to our sites to compare and shop for financial products. We understand investor fears around the threat of disintermediation to our business model. There are many legal and regulatory structures in place that would make it difficult for agentic AI to overcome, not to mention our own partners' incentive structures that would negate the outcome. Instead of focusing on playing defense, though, against these low-probability outcomes, we are embracing this innovative technology. I cannot be more excited about the AI-powered improvements that we are making to our consumer experience. We have already driven results with our use of AI voice in our call center.

Speaker #1: We understand investor fears around the threat of disintermediation to our business model . There are many legal and regulatory structures in place that would make it difficult for AI to overcome , not to mention our own partners incentive structures that would negate the outcome Instead of focusing on playing defense against these low probability outcomes , we are embracing this innovative technology .

Speaker #1: I cannot be more excited about the AI powered improvements that we are making to our consumer experience . We have already driven results with our use of AI voice in our call center As mentioned in the letter , we've seen significant revenue growth to the tune of ten plus million dollars in revenue growth per quarter over the last six quarters , compared to opex growth of a few hundred thousand dollars per quarter over the last six quarters .

Scott Peyree: As mentioned in the letter, we've seen significant revenue growth to the tune of $10+ million in revenue growth per quarter over the last six quarters compared to OpEx growth of $100,000s per quarter over the last six quarters in our call center operations. We've also seen efficient improvements that our marketing team has generated using AI-enabled technology to speed up design, ad testing, and funnel testing. This is shown with a 17% increase in overall conversions coming through our network year-over-year in the Q4. That is with the headwind of legacy SEO coming down. I'm sorry. The North Star of our company is to be the number one destination to shop for financial products.

Speaker #1: In our in our call center operations , we've also seen efficient improvements in our marketing team has generated using AI enabled technology to speed up design and testing and funnel testing .

Speaker #1: This is shown with a 17% increase in overall conversions coming through our network year over year in the fourth quarter, and that is with the headwind of legacy SEO coming down.

Speaker #1: Our North Star is a company continues to be , I'm sorry , the North Star of our company is to be the number one destination to shop for financial products .

Speaker #1: Everything that goes into forming our long term initiatives is based on this aspiration . We have the right to win as LendingTree has the broadest network of financial partners of any consumer finance , shopping site , sourcing millions of visitors who are in the market for these products and want the best deal is our core competency .

Scott Peyree: Everything that goes into forming our long-term initiatives is based on this aspiration. We have the right to win as LendingTree has the broadest network of financial partners of any consumer finance shopping site. Sourcing millions of visitors who are in the market for these products and want the best deal is our core competency. We will use these strengths as the bedrock to scale customer volumes and improve outcomes with enhanced experiences, new tools, and better matching. Our North Star strategy has four strategic pillars. Number 1, accelerate the core business. Number 2, improve the consumer experience. Number 3, expand product offerings. Finally, number 4, rebuild and reposition our brand. I'd like to briefly hit on each of these pillars for the investors today. Number 1, accelerate the core business.

Speaker #1: We will we will use these strengths as the bedrock to scale customer volumes and improve outcomes with enhanced experiences , new tools and better matching .

Speaker #1: Our North Star strategy has four strategic pillars . Number one , accelerate the core business . Number two , improve the consumer experience .

Speaker #1: Number three , expand product offerings . And finally , number four , rebuild and reposition our brand . I'd like to briefly hit on each of these pillars for the investors today .

Speaker #1: Number one, accelerate the core business initiatives focused in this growth area. Focus on our existing businesses to support ongoing double-digit growth.

Scott Peyree: Initiatives focus in this growth area focus on our existing businesses to support ongoing double-digit growth. These strategic initiatives support driving more consumers to our network, providing more purchase options to consumers, and increasing monetization of our traffic via our distribution networks. Examples of areas we're focusing on now include the continued expansion of our SMB concierge sales force and network of lenders in SMB, the development of a concierge sales force in auto lending, investments into tech product and sales teams for rapid expansion of our media business development capabilities, and tech investment into major upgrades of our marketing technology platforms. Number 2, improve the consumer experience. In this pillar, our CX team is systematically resolving consumer pain points, often with the use of AI technology. Initiatives in this pillar focus on making shopping easier for what are often complicated financial products.

Speaker #1: These strategic initiatives support driving more consumers to our network , providing more purchase options to consumers , and increasing monetization of our traffic via our distribution networks Examples of areas where we're focusing on now include the continued expansion of our SMB concierge , sales and network of lenders in SMB , the development of a concierge , Salesforce , and auto lending investments into tech , product and sales teams for rapid expansion of our media business development capabilities and tech investment into major upgrades of our marketing technology platforms .

Speaker #1: Number two , improve the consumer experience , and this pillar our the team is systematically resolving consumer pain points , often with the use of AI technology initiatives .

Speaker #1: In this pillar , focus on making shopping easier for what are often complicated financial products . We are seeking to serve both consumers looking to transact , as well as consumers who are just want to go shopping .

Scott Peyree: We are seeking to serve both consumers looking to transact as well as consumers who are just window shopping. The goal of this pillar is to become a trusted partner for the consumer when seeking financial products to drive an increase in return visits and referrals. Examples of this area that we're focusing on now include improving our login experience, taking learnings from the Spring app to our website, such as making it easier to log in and customizing the homepage for logged-in users based on products they are shopping for. Also, simplifying the process to find and review offers they had previously received. Second, develop a personal loan rate table using our proprietary rate data we gather from millions of consumers shopping for loans on our network, which will allow consumers to know what rates they should expect before applying.

Speaker #1: The goal of this pillar is to become a trusted partner for the consumer . When seeking financial products to drive an increase in return visits and referrals .

Speaker #1: Examples of this area . Focusing on that , we're focusing on now include improving our logged in experience , taking learnings from our spring app to our website , such as making it easier to log in and customizing the homepage for logged in users based on products they are shopping for .

Speaker #1: Also , simplifying the process to find and review offers . They had previously received Second , develop a personal loan rate table using our proprietary rate data .

Speaker #1: We gather from millions of consumers shopping for loans on our network, which will allow consumers to know what rates they should expect before applying.

Speaker #1: This tool can be provided on our website and our app. It can be embedded with our business development partners and, importantly, embedded within LMS.

Scott Peyree: This tool can be provided on our website, in our app, it can be embedded with our business development partners, and importantly, embedded within LLMs. Third pillar, expand our product offerings. This pillar focuses on the addition of categories of financial products offered to consumers. Our long-term strategic goal is to provide representation of all financial products a consumer could want. We do not have to manufacture a shopping experience for some products when we can instead identify and partner with industry-leading service providers. The focus over the next 18 months is to sign partnerships in areas such as commercial insurance, pet insurance, boat and RV insurance, wealth management, robo-advisors, student lending, and others. Our fourth pillar, rebuild and reposition our brand. We have strong brand resilience with aided awareness. We need to rebuild the brand from an unaided awareness perspective.

Speaker #1: Third pillar expand our product offerings . This pillar focuses on the addition of categories of financial products offered to consumers . Our long term strategic goal is to provide representation of all financial products that consumers could want .

Speaker #1: We do not have to manufacture the shopping experience for some products when we can. Instead, identify and partner with industry-leading service providers.

Speaker #1: The focus over the next 18 months is to sign partnerships in areas such as commercial insurance , pet insurance , boat and RV insurance , wealth management , robo advisors , student lending and others Finally , our fourth pillar rebuild and reposition our brand .

Speaker #1: We have strong brand resilience with aided awareness , but need to rebuild the brand from an unaided awareness perspective . We also are focused on repositioning our brand to be a destination to shop for a wide variety of insurance , lending and other financial products where historically we've been associated more specifically with mortgage products .

Scott Peyree: We also are focused on repositioning our brand to be a destination to shop for a wide variety of insurance, lending, and other financial products. Where historically we've been associated more specifically with mortgage products. In Q1, we made key brand hires and have begun the redesign of our homepage. Our goal is to target brand spend in several large geographic markets in the second half of this year, introducing new customers to our redesigned experience. Thank you, everyone. I know that was a lot, but I thought it was important with our North Star and our new strategic focus to really lay it out for all of our investors. It was a little bit long-winded there, thank you for bearing with me.

Speaker #1: In Q1 , we made key brand hires and have begun the redesign of our homepage . Our goal is to target brand spend in several large geographic markets .

Speaker #1: In the second half of this year , introducing new customers to our redesigned experience . So thank you everyone . I know that was a lot , but I thought it was important with our new with our North Star and our new strategic focus to really lay it out for all of our investors .

Speaker #1: It was a little bit long winded there , so thank you for bearing with me . And so with that , I'll pause there and open the line to your questions about about our results , outlook and strategy .

Scott Peyree: With that, I'll pause there and open the line to your questions about our results, outlook, and strategy.

Speaker #2: Certainly as a reminder , please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced . To withdraw your question , please press star one one again .

Operator: Certainly. As a reminder, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please stand by while we compile our Q&A roster. Our first question will be coming from the line of Youssef Squali of Truist Securities. Your line is open.

Speaker #2: Please stand by while we compile our Q&A roster. Our first question will be coming from the line of Youssef Squali of Truist Securities.

Speaker #2: Your line is open .

Speaker #3: Great . Thank you guys for taking the question . And congrats on a strong quarter . Scott . Maybe can you talk a little bit about the the the sustainability of growth and insurance and really just trying to understand what the main drivers are ?

Youssef Squali: Great. Thank you guys for taking the question, and congrats on the strong quarter. Scott, maybe, can you talk a little bit about the sustainability of growth in insurance? Really just trying to understand what the main drivers are. I think you talked about how 4 out of the 10 insurance partners grew revenues, I think by 60% or 65%. Maybe can you peel that onion 1 more layer and just kind of describe exactly what's going on that's driving all that growth? Then I have a follow-up to these.

Speaker #3: I think you talked about how for out of the ten insurance partners grew revenues . I think by 60 or 65% maybe . Can you peel that onion one more layer and just kind of describe exactly what's what's going on that's driving all that growth ?

Speaker #3: And I have a follow-up, please.

Speaker #1: Yeah , sure . No problem . Thanks . Thanks for the question . And just just to clarify what I was talking about with the insurance providers is our carriers for through ten .

Scott Peyree: Yeah, sure. No problem, Youssef. Thanks for the question. Just to clarify, what I was talking about with the insurance providers is our carriers 4 through 10. Like after our top 3 carriers, the next 7 carriers combined grew by 65% year-over-year. I was just wanted to illustrate in that statement how it's just we aren't solely dependent. The top 3 carriers also grew a lot year-over-year, but just the growth is broad-based. Just it's not just purely based off the top 3 carriers. Even though our top 3 carriers, I mean, it's fair to say they still represent an outsized portion of our overall insurance revenue.

Speaker #1: So like after our top three carriers , the next seven carriers combined grew by 65% year over year . And I was I was just wanting to illustrate in that statement how it's just we're we aren't solely dependent .

Speaker #1: The top three carriers also grew a lot year over year . But just the the growth is broad based . Just it's not just purely based off the top three carriers .

Speaker #1: Even though our top three carriers , I mean , it's fair to say they still represent an outside , outsized portion of our overall insurance revenue .

Scott Peyree: Just to discuss it on the sustainability of the insurance marketplace right now, you know, the bottom line, I would start with the insurance carriers themselves, remain very profitable. They had a great year last year. They've started the year well this year. You know, and after many years of, you know, a few years of unprofitability and pulling back marketing spend amongst a bunch of other spends for a long time, they are now all very aggressive in growing market share, especially the top carriers. Honestly, I would say over the past three to six months, they've become more aggressive, if anything, of trying to fight over market share. We have just a lot of high-quality, high-intent consumers coming through our network.

Speaker #1: So just just to discuss on the sustainability of the insurance marketplace right now , you know , the bottom line , I would start with the insurance carriers themselves remain very profitable .

Speaker #1: They had they had a great year last year . They've they've started the year well , this year , you know , and after many years of unprofitable , you know , a few years of unprofitability and pulling back marketing spend amongst a bunch of other spins for a long time , they are now all very aggressive in growing market share , especially especially the top carriers .

Speaker #1: And it is . And honestly , I would say over the past 3 to 6 months , they've become more aggressive . If anything , of trying to fight over market share .

Speaker #1: And we have just a lot of high quality , high intent consumers coming through our network . You know , in the carriers know that it's a our network is an extremely cost effective way for them to get their insurance products in front of targeted high intent insurance .

Scott Peyree: You know, the carriers know that our network is an extremely cost-effective way for them to get their insurance products in front of targeted high-intent insurance consumers. You know, as the year goes on, we expect to start seeing some rate decreases more aggressively from rate carriers, which will bring more consumers shopping into the marketplace. Carriers have continued to open up geographies. They're getting very open at this point. That is, I mean, more geographies are open today than were a year ago, as a general statement, for carriers being willing to offer consumers product. Finally, just internally, as I mentioned with our marketing strategy, we've just done a very good job of increasing consumer traffic coming through our site.

Speaker #1: Insurance consumers , you know , as , as the year goes on , we expect to start seeing some rate decreases more aggressively from carriers , which will bring more consumers shopping into the marketplace .

Speaker #1: Carriers have continued to open up geographies . They're getting they're getting very open at this point . But but that is I mean , more geographies are open today then we're a year ago as a general statement for carriers being willing to offer consumers product .

Speaker #1: And then finally , just internally , as I mentioned , with our with our marketing strategy , we've just done a very good job of increasing consumer traffic coming through our site .

Speaker #1: We're out there and we're we're in front of a lot more consumers now . Today than we were a year ago . And honestly , we look at our opportunities in front of us over the next year .

Scott Peyree: We're out there, and we're in front of a lot more consumers now, today than we were a year ago. Honestly, we look at our opportunities in front of us over the next year, we're very excited about continued growth in consumer traffic coming through our site for insurance products.

Speaker #1: We are very excited about continued growth in consumer traffic coming through our site for insurance products .

Speaker #3: Thank you . That's very that's very helpful . And then on the AI mediation topic , how are you currently working or integrating with some of these LMS to try to stay visible ?

Youssef Squali: Thank you. That's very helpful. On the AI disintermediation topic, how are you currently working or integrating with some of these LLMs to try to stay visible basically as search transitions to more of a conversational kind of interface? Thanks.

Speaker #3: Basically as search transitions to more of a conversational kind of interface Thanks .

Speaker #4: Yeah , I would say there's a there's a number of fronts .

Scott Peyree: I would say there's a number of fronts we're working on there. There's obviously the SEO front where you're getting referenced by the LLMs, driving consumers to our site. You know, we continue to focus on that and it continues to grow. It's very high intent consumers, as I've mentioned on previous calls. I would say, you know, materially, it's still a pretty small percentage of our overall consumer base, but it's continuing to grow. Some of the LLMs, ChatGPT being an example, are looking to start testing some advertising, which we're excited about participating in.

Speaker #1: We're working on there . There's obviously the SEO front where where you're getting referenced by the LMS driving consumers to our site , you know , we continue to focus on that .

Speaker #1: And it continues to grow . It's very high intent . As I've mentioned on previous calls , I would say , you know , materially , it's still a pretty small percentage of our overall consumer base , but it's continuing to grow .

Speaker #1: Some of the LMS ChatGPT being an example , are looking to start testing some advertising , which we're excited about participating in . Again , I don't know how material to expect it to be in the in the calendar year 2026 .

Scott Peyree: Again, I don't know how material to expect it to be in the calendar year 2026 as far as quantity of consumers, but it's you know, being that we are very, very good at paid advertising to get in front of consumers, we're excited about the LLMs starting to open up that. Then just from a technology development standpoint, you know, we've been working at, you know, our teams on using AI development, conversational funnels, agentic AI bots to help get documentation necessary to finish application processes, developing, you know, comparison tools that helps consumers compare their offers, apples to apples, you know, it's the personal loans rate table I mentioned in my opening statements as an example.

Speaker #1: As far as quantity of consumers . But but it's exciting . You know , being that we are very , very good at paid advertising to get in front of consumers , we're excited about the LMS starting to open up that and then just from a technology development standpoint , you know , we've been working at , you know , our teams on using AI development , conversational funnels , agentic , AI bots to help get documentation necessary to to finish application processes , developing , you know , comparison tools that helps consumers compare their offers .

Speaker #1: Apples to apples , you know , at the personal loans rate table I mentioned in my opening statements as an example . I mean , we're we're building our a lot of technical chops on how to use AI in LLM style technology for front end consumer products .

Scott Peyree: I mean, we're building a lot of technical chops on how to use AI and LLM style technology for front-end consumer products. I would say that there's been varying levels of success on the consumer engagement standpoint at this point, I mean, but we're getting better and better at building it. As that consumer behavior starts to change, I think we'll be a leader in that space.

Speaker #1: I would say that there's been varying levels of success on the consumer engagement standpoint at this point . But I mean , but we're getting better and better at building it .

Speaker #1: And as as that consumer behavior starts to change , I think we'll be a leader in that space .

Speaker #3: Got it. Thank you. Best of luck.

Youssef Squali: Got it. Thank you. Best of luck.

Speaker #1: Thanks .

Scott Peyree: Thanks.

Speaker #2: And our next question will be coming from the line of Ryan Tomasello of KBW. Your line is open.

Operator: Our next question will be coming from the line of Ryan Tomasello of KBW. Your line is open.

Speaker #5: Hi , everyone . This is Juan on for Ryan . Thanks for taking the questions . Can you talk about the targeted brand investments in the second half of the year ?

[Analyst] (KBW): Hi, everyone. This is Juan on for Ryan. Thanks for taking the questions. Can you talk about the targeted brand investments in the second half of the year? What's driving that decision, if you could size the amount of the investment relative to 2025.

[Company Representative] (KBW): Hi, everyone. This is Juan on for Ryan. Thanks for taking the questions. Can you talk about the targeted brand investments in the second half of the year? What's driving that decision, if you could size the amount of the investment relative to 2025.

Speaker #5: What's driving that decision ? And if you could size the amount of the investment relative to 2025 .

Speaker #1: Yeah .

Scott Peyree: Yeah. I'll just start at a high level, and Jason, you can throw in, like, the level of investments on one if you want to talk about that. You know, that was. It's just a critical part of our North Star strategy is, you know, to be the number one destination to shop for financial products. As we looked at the landscape and our brand, we've got a really strong brand, and we're very proud of the brand we've developed. The two. We haven't invested a ton on the pure basis of our brand over the past few years. Whereas our brand is very good on an aided awareness perspective with consumers, it's not very good on unaided awareness.

Speaker #4: I'll just .

Speaker #1: Start at a high level. And Jason, you can throw in the level of investments. I wonder if you want to talk about that.

Speaker #1: But you know , that was it's just a critical part of our North Star strategy is , you know , to be the number one destination to shop for financial products .

Speaker #1: And as as we looked at the landscape and our brand , we've got a really strong brand and we're very proud of the brand .

Speaker #1: We've developed the two core . We haven't invested a ton on the pure basis of our brand over the past few years , and so whereas our brand is very good on an aided awareness perspective with consumers , it's not very good on unaided awareness .

Speaker #1: So we feel it's important to get out there , especially now that we want to reposition ourselves as a destination for all financial product shopping .

Scott Peyree: We feel it's important to get out there, especially now that we want to reposition ourselves as a destination for all financial product shopping, whereas historically, a lot of consumers really associate us specifically with mortgage and mortgage shopping. You know, the goal is at the end of the day to really get to the point where an average consumer on the street, we are one of the first companies that comes to their mind if they're thinking about shopping for financial products. That's really what we wanna start.

Speaker #1: Whereas historically , a lot of consumers really associate a specifically with mortgage and mortgage shopping . So we want to , you know , the goal is at the end of the day , to really get to the point where an average consumer on the street , we are one of the first companies that comes to their mind .

Speaker #1: If they're thinking about shopping for financial products . And that's really what we want to start . And so we we want to go in the second half of this year with the redesigned homepage experience , a couple pages with some different messaging , some different types of messaging from from a brand advertising perspective and go into some large markets where we have good positioning with with all of our financial products , some geographic markets where we can test different messaging and see what sticks and lands with the consumer as well .

Scott Peyree: We wanna go in the second half of this year with the redesigned homepage experience, a couple pages with some different messaging, some different types of messagings, from a brand advertising perspective, and go into some large markets where we have good positioning with all of our financial products, some geographic markets where we can test different messaging and see what sticks and lands with the consumers well before we really roll it out on a national basis. You know, that will probably start happening kind of mid Q3 to mid Q4. Jason Bengel, you want to hit on just the investment levels we're looking at?

Speaker #1: Before we really roll it out on a national basis . And so , you know , that will probably start happening kind of mid Q3 to mid Q4 .

Speaker #1: Jason , you want to hit on just the investment levels . We're looking at . Yeah .

Jason Bengel: Yeah. Like Scott said, this is, you know, probably more in the second half. You know, the amount that we spend is gonna be a function of how well we're performing, I guess, is thing one, and then also, you know, how well that brand spend itself is performing as well. If it performs and exceeds our expectations, then we may wind up leaning into it. The guidance does contemplate at least, you know, an initial investment where we're starting to roll this out and starting to do some testing. The investment itself is at least, you know, initially probably less than $10 million as we're thinking about it in guidance.

Speaker #6: That's like Scott said , this is , you know , probably more in the second half . And you know , the amount that we spend is going to be a function of of how well we're performing , I guess is thing one .

Speaker #6: And then also , you know how well that brand spent itself is performing as well . So if it performs and exceeds our expectations , then we may wind up leaning into it .

Speaker #6: And the guidance does contemplate, at least, an initial investment where we're starting to roll this out and starting to do some testing.

Speaker #6: But the investment itself is, at least initially, probably less than $10 million, as we're thinking about it. And guidance—

Speaker #5: Got it . That's very clear . And just a quick follow up in terms of the outlook , can you provide a bit more granularity at the segment level for revenue and BMD growth , as well as VMD margins

[Analyst] (KBW): Got it. That's very clear. Just a quick follow-up. In terms of the outlook, can you provide a bit more granularity at the segment level for revenue and VMD growth as well as VMD margins?

[Company Representative] (KBW): Got it. That's very clear. Just a quick follow-up. In terms of the outlook, can you provide a bit more granularity at the segment level for revenue and VMD growth as well as VMD margins?

Speaker #6: Yeah , sure . Happy to . So yeah , I'll just talk through segment by segment how we're thinking about the guide . So first home , you know the backdrop for home .

Jason Bengel: Yeah, sure. Happy to. Yeah, I'll just talk through segment by segment, how we're thinking about the guide. First home. You know, the backdrop for home, we're not assuming any real rate benefit for home. We've seen some rate decreases coming through, we're not assuming any going forward. That would be upside to the guide. Generally home, you know, home equity should have support with record home equity balances. At the end of the day, there's still not a lot of consumers out there shopping, and we have seen some increase in competition causing media costs to increase. Margin-wise, you know, I would say we expect home to be roughly where it was landing in Q4.

Speaker #6: We're not assuming any real rate benefit for home . We've seen some rate decreases coming through . But we're not assuming any going forward .

Speaker #6: That would be upside to to the guide generally . Home . You know home equity should have support with record home equity balances .

Speaker #6: But at the end of the day, there's still not a lot of consumers out there shopping. And we have seen some increase in competition, which is causing media costs to increase.

Speaker #6: So margin wise , you know , I would say we expect home to be roughly where it was landing in Q4 . We are investing in quality to to to win a prominent space in our marketing channels .

Jason Bengel: We are investing in quality to win a prominent space in our marketing channels, and we are investing in expanding our small lender network, which will provide some margin support. Going on to consumer. You know, consumer, the real driver is gonna be small business. The merchant cash advance market is a strong market that's growing. We've been investing in our concierge experience, the staffing, the marketing channel placements to drive high-quality traffic. We expect all of that to continue into 2026. That's a model that's really working well for us. Personal loans. We move on to personal loans. You know, record credit card balances provide a great use case for debt consolidation in 2026.

Speaker #6: And we are investing and expanding our small lender network , which which will provide some margin support going on to consumer . You know , consumer , the real driver is going to be small business .

Speaker #6: The merchant cash advance market is a strong market . That's growing . We've been investing in our concierge experience . The staffing , the marketing channel , placements to drive high quality traffic .

Speaker #6: We expect all of that to continue into 2026 . That's a model that's really working well for us . Personal loans . We move on to personal loans .

Speaker #6: You know , record credit card balances , provide a great use case for debt consolidation in 2026 . But 2025 did see quite a bit of expansion by box expansions , which were not expecting to repeat in the 2026 .

Jason Bengel: 2025 did see quite a bit of expansions, Buy Box expansions, which we're not expecting to repeat in 2026. We're being, you know, maybe a little bit more measured when it comes to PL growth expectations. There we're focused on better matching consumers with lenders, and finding additional sources of traffic to feed those lenders. Margin-wise, it's, you know, generally where we have been in Q4, I think is probably fair. It will bounce around, I think Q4 is generally a decent starting point. Then insurance, you know, when it comes to insurance, that backdrop is very favorable, like for all the reasons Scott said. You know, carriers are becoming more competitive for market share and policies.

Speaker #6: So we're being , you know , maybe a little bit more measured when it comes to RPL growth expectations . And there were we're focused on better matching consumers with lenders and finding additional sources of traffic to to feed those lenders .

Speaker #6: Margin wise , it's , you know , generally where where we have been in Q4 , I think is probably fair . It will bounce around .

Speaker #6: But I think Q4 is generally a decent starting point . And then insurance , you know , when it comes to insurance , that that backdrop is very favorable for all the reasons Scott said .

Speaker #6: You know , carriers are becoming more competitive for market share and policies . They really want to grow policies . They're profitability is extremely strong .

Jason Bengel: They really want to grow policies. Their profitability is extremely strong and, you know, with selective rate decreases coming through, that should spur additional traffic, which should support the CPL side of the house, the cost per lead. Backdrop is really strong. Things we're doing, we're really focused on improving our margin. We're making some key investments in MarTech to make sure we grab more margin. We're seeing a lot of that come through already, in January and February and Q1. We've noticed material increase in margins from where we were in Q4, and we expect that generally to continue throughout the year. I think just candidly, you know, we are running hotter than when we expected in Q1 in insurance. The backdrop is favorable.

Speaker #6: And , you know , with with selective rate decreases coming through , that should spur additional traffic , would should support the CPO side of the house .

Speaker #6: The cost per lead. So, backdrop is, really, some really strong things we're doing. We're really focused on improving our margin. We're making some key investments in martech to make sure we grab more margin.

Speaker #6: And we're seeing a lot of that come through already in January and February. In Q1, we've noticed a material increase in margins from where we were in Q4, and we expect that generally to continue throughout the year.

Speaker #6: And so I think just candidly , you know , we are running hotter than we expected in Q1 . And insurance . And so the backdrop is favorable .

Speaker #6: We have no indications that it's going to slow down. But it's, you know, when it comes to the guide, we're also being a little bit cautious.

Jason Bengel: We have no indications that it's gonna slow down, but it's, you know, when it comes to the guide, we're also being a little bit cautious. It's only been two months. We don't wanna bake in this very, very strong performance for the rest of the year yet. To be totally candid, we are pulling that down a little bit and being a little bit more conservative just to be prudent when it comes to the insurance segment. Then like we said, you know, we do wanna allow ourselves room to spend in brand as it relates to the strategy. I mean, I think that's generally some color on each of the pieces there. Hopefully, that's helpful. Yep, got it. Appreciate all the detail and congrats on the print.

Speaker #6: It's only been two months . We kind of we don't want to bake in this very , very strong performance for the rest of the year yet .

Speaker #6: So to be totally , totally candid , we are we are pulling that down a little bit and being a little bit more conservative just to be prudent when it comes to the insurance segment .

Speaker #6: And then, like we said, you know, we do want to allow ourselves room to spend in brand as it relates to the strategy.

Speaker #6: So, I mean, I think that's generally some color on each of the pieces there. Hopefully that's helpful.

Speaker #5: Yep. Got it. I appreciate all the detail, and congrats on the print.

Speaker #2: And our next question will be coming from the line of Jed Kelly of Oppenheimer and Co . Your line is

Operator: Our next question will be coming from the line of Jed Kelly of Oppenheimer & Co. Your line is...

Speaker #7: Great . Thanks for taking my question . Can you hear me ? Okay .

Jed Kelly: Great. Thanks for taking my question. Can you hear me okay?

Speaker #1: Yep .

Jason Bengel: Yep.

Speaker #7: Okay , great . Yeah , I was cutting in now . Yeah . Just can you just extend your shareholder letter ? Can you kind of explain more of , like , what's going on with these trigger leads and how that benefits ?

Jed Kelly: Okay, great. I was cutting in out. Just, can you just in your shareholder letter, can you kind of explain more of like what's going on with these trigger leads and how that benefits? If kind of, kind of taking the last comments around the guidance, are we kinda coming into an environment when the insurance segment is just now a lot more predictable and easier than for you guys to forecast than it has been the last five years? I have a follow-up.

Speaker #7: And then if kind of I'm kind of taking the last comments around the guidance , are we kind of coming into an environment with when when the insurance segment is just now a lot more predictable and easier for you guys to forecast than it has been the last five years that I have a follow up

Speaker #4: All right. I'll start with—

Jason Bengel: All right. I'll start with hitting on the trigger leads, Jed, and then we can go on the insurance. The trigger leads is for those that don't know the trigger leads. The very basic version of that is when, for example, when we develop a lead and sell to our mortgage providers, they do a hard credit pull to provide a firm offer to the consumers. The credit bureaus will trigger them. That's why they call trigger leads. They'll be triggered to sell it off to a bunch of, like, third-party buyers that we have no association with, our clients have no association with.

Speaker #1: Hitting on the trigger . Leads . Jed . And then we can go to the insurance . So the trigger leads is for those that don't know the trigger leads the , the the very basic version of that is when , for example , when we develop a lead and sell to a mortgage providers and then they do a hard credit pull to , to provide a firm offer to the consumers , then the credit bureaus will send it will trigger them .

Speaker #1: That's why they call them trigger leads. They'll be triggered to sell it off to a bunch of third-party buyers that we have no association with.

Speaker #1: Our clients have no association with , but it's basically saying like , hey , this consumer just got a hard pull on their credit for from an insurance from a , I'm sorry , a mortgage company .

Jason Bengel: It's basically saying, like, Hey, this consumer just got a hard pull on their credit from a mortgage company. Maybe you might wanna call them to see if... It turns into a really horrible consumer experience where, like, they're about to close a mortgage, and then all of a sudden, they're getting another 50 or 60 calls from no, you know, who knows who. The long story short is Congress passed a bill that basically said that can no longer happen. That's coming in. Jason, Andrew, I don't know the exact date. It's quick. This week, that's coming out. It helps us on the front end of the quality of our traffic.

Speaker #1: So so maybe you might want to call them to see if so . So it turns into a really horrible consumer experience where like they're about to close a mortgage and all of a sudden they're getting another 50 or 60 calls from no , you know , who knows who .

Speaker #1: So , so , so the long story short is Congress passed a bill that basically said that can no longer happen . And that's coming in .

Speaker #1: Jason . Andrew , I don't know the exact date . It's quick . That is this week , this week that's coming up .

Speaker #1: So so it helps us on the front end of the quality of our traffic , because now you don't have our clients when they're giving their firm offers to the consumers .

Jason Bengel: Because now you don't have our clients when they're giving their firm offers to the consumers, it's not triggering like 50 calls on the back end. Like, that will really help the consumer experience and the quality of our leads to our direct clients. Secondly, how it helps us, there's a lot of buyers of these trigger leads that will no longer be able to buy these leads. We think that will drive many companies that to come to buy these consumers on the front end from the likes of us, which should help our monetization. I'm sorry, Jed, what was your second question around insurance?

Speaker #1: It's not triggering, like, 50 calls on the back end. So, like, that will really help the consumer experience and the quality of our leads to our direct clients.

Speaker #1: Secondly , how it helps us , there's a lot of buyers of these trigger leads that can that will no longer be able to buy these leads .

Speaker #1: And so we think that will drive many companies that come to buy these consumers on the front end from the likes of us , which should help our monetization I'm sorry , Jed , what was your second question around insurance ?

Speaker #7: Just, are we kind of entering this period? Yeah, like, the predictability following, like, the last five years of a decent amount of volatility.

Jed Kelly: Just are we...

Jason Bengel: Oh, entering this period.

Jed Kelly: Yeah, the predictability following, like, last five years of a decent amount of volatility.

Speaker #1: Yeah . I think the short answer there is , yes , it seems you know , I not that there is I mean there always be some level of carriers leaning in and leaning out .

Jason Bengel: Yeah. I think the short answer there is yes. It seems, you know, Not that there is. I mean, there'll always be some level of carriers leaning in and leaning out, and that's why we manage a large network and keep all of that. I do feel like the past two quarters has been there's been a lot more stability than maybe the previous eight quarters were. I expect that to continue, and I expect the changes in geographic targeting, demographic targeting, total ad spend to be a lot slower a lot lower swings than they've been in recent history. Jason, you have anything to add to that? Yeah. I agree.

Speaker #1: And that's why we , we manage a large network and , and keep all of that . But I do I do feel like the past two quarters has been there's been a lot more stability than maybe the previous eight quarters were .

Speaker #1: And I expect that to continue . And I expect the changes in , you know , geographic targeting , demographic targeting , total ad spend to be a lot slower , a lot lower swings than they've been in recent history .

Speaker #1: Jason, do you have anything to add to that?

Speaker #6: Yeah , I yeah , I agree , I would just I would just add on like the , you know , the market will be less defined by two carriers .

Jason Bengel: I would just add on, like, the, you know, the market will be less defined by 2 carriers, I think, as we progress throughout 2026. You know, as we said, you know, we saw a lot of strong growth from the next 7 carriers. As it becomes more competitive, as more carriers really start to come into the market and play a more prominent position in our market, we'll be less defined by, you know, a smaller number of carriers. That should help with predictability.

Speaker #6: I think as we progress throughout 2026 , you know , as we said , you know , we saw a lot of strong growth from the next seven carriers .

Speaker #6: And so as as it becomes more competitive , as more carriers really start to come into the market and play more prominent position in our market , will be will be less defined by , you know , a smaller number of carriers .

Speaker #6: So that that should help the predictability .

Speaker #7: And can I just sneak one more in?

Jed Kelly: Can I just sneak one more in?

Speaker #1: Sure .

Jason Bengel: Sure.

Jed Kelly: Just we've had a drawdown in valuations in most of this sector. You know, can you just talk about I get wanting to get your debt down below $200 million and potentially maybe do buybacks. Can you talk about just potentially the acquisition landscape where you've seen valuations come in quite a bit with what's been going on over the last couple of months?

Speaker #7: Just we've had a drawdown in valuations in most of this , in most of the sector , you know , can you just talk about I get wanting to get your debt down below 200 million and potentially maybe do buybacks .

Speaker #7: But can you talk about just, potentially, the acquisition landscape, where you've seen valuations come in quite a bit with what's been going on over the last couple of months?

Speaker #1: Sure . I'll start on that . And Jason , you can feel free . Feel free to add in . I mean , there's I , you know , it is a big priority for us to bring to bring down our total debt load and especially , you know , as , as a multiple , you know , so we are very focused on continuing to do that , looking at that , Jed , as you said , with valuations coming down pretty significantly across the board , it's there's no denying that that makes opportunities out there become become a lot more interesting now .

Scott Peyree: Sure. I'll start on that, and Jason, you can feel free to add in. I mean, there's. You know, it is a big priority for us to bring down our total debt load, and especially, you know, as a multiple on. You know, we are very focused on continuing to do that and looking at that. Jed, as you said, with valuations coming down pretty significantly across the board, there's no denying that that makes opportunities out there become a lot more interesting. Now, it's always the classic, it takes two to tango, right?

Speaker #1: It always it's always the classic it takes two to tango right . You know we deal with this scenario where some others out there , you know , view that their value is is way below where it should be .

Scott Peyree: You know, you deal with a scenario where some others out there, you know, view that their value is way below where it should be, and that makes them less interested in M&A sort of activity, which I totally understand personally. That could. Could it potentially drive... 'Cause if it sustains over a longer period of time, could it potentially drive consolidation? I think absolutely it could. Are we at-- Are we interested in it? Yes. Are we aggressively pursuing it at this point in time? No.

Speaker #1: And that makes them less interested in M&A sort of activity , which I totally understand personally . But but yeah , that that could drive .

Speaker #1: Yeah. It could potentially drive, if it sustains over a longer period of time. It could potentially drive consolidation, I think.

Speaker #1: Absolutely . It could . Are we at are we are we interested in it . Yes . Are we aggressively pursuing pursuing it at this point in time ?

Speaker #1: No

Speaker #7: Thank you .

Mike Grondahl: Thank you.

Jed Kelly: Thank you.

Speaker #6: Yeah . So I would just tack on , you know , our our soft we have 101 soft call on our , on our term loan .

Jason Bengel: Yeah, I would just tack on, you know, our soft call on our term loan. That was up in February. We are free now to pay down debt at par. You know, kinda like we're saying here, the uncertainty is significant out there. Right now, when you have that much uncertainty, let's just hold on to cash and, you know, let's for at least the short term here, we're not gonna pay down debt, we're gonna accumulate cash and maintain flexibility, just given how dynamic things are at the moment.

Speaker #6: That was up in February . So we are free now to to pay down debt at par . But you know kind of like we're saying here like the uncertainty is is significant out there .

Speaker #6: So so right now when you have that much uncertainty like let's let's just hold on to cash and , you know , let's for at least the , the short term here , like let's we're not going to pay down debt .

Speaker #6: We're going to accumulate cash and maintain flexibility, just given how dynamic things are at the moment.

Speaker #7: Thank you, and nice job.

Mike Grondahl: Thank you, and nice job.

Jed Kelly: Thank you, and nice job.

Speaker #1: Thanks

Jason Bengel: Thanks.

Speaker #2: Dare to ask a question ? Please press star one one on your telephone . Our next question will be coming from the line of Mike Grondahl of Northland .

Operator: To ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone. Our next question will be coming from the line of Mike Grondahl of Northland. Your line is open.

Speaker #2: Your line is open .

Speaker #8: Hey, guys. Thank you. Scott, if you could, could you maybe talk about the visibility you have in the business today for revenue versus maybe six months or a year ago?

Mike Grondahl: Hey, guys. Thank you. Scott, if you could you maybe talk about the visibility you have in the business today for revenue versus maybe six months or a year ago?

Scott Peyree: Yeah, sure. I mean, I think the visibility for revenue in 2026 is pretty solid. I mean, I don't expect massive pendulum swings. I mean, I do think our ability to drive more consumer traffic at an outsized pace will continue to drive revenue growth because I think, I would say pretty much every industry we're in right now, if we have the ability to drive more quality consumers at the existing monetization levels, our clients will keep buying those consumers and wanting to get their products in front of those consumers. It's I would almost argue our revenue is much more dependent now on our ability to continue driving more and more consumers to our network than it is on clients opening up a lot more budget.

Speaker #1: Yeah , yeah , sure . I mean , I think the visibility for revenue in 26 is , is pretty solid . I mean , I don't I don't expect massive pendulum swings .

Speaker #1: I mean , I do think our ability to drive more consumer traffic at an outsized pace will continue to drive revenue growth , because I think I would say pretty much every industry we're in right now , if we have the ability to drive more quality consumers at the existing monetization levels , our clients will keep buying those consumers and wanting to get their products in front of those consumers .

Speaker #1: So, I would almost argue our revenue is much more dependent now on our ability to continue driving more and more consumers to our network than it is on clients opening up a lot more budget.

Speaker #1: And so, that does go to creating more predictability in the revenue.

Scott Peyree: That does go to, like, creating more predictability in the revenue.

Speaker #8: Got it . And on the mortgage side , not home equity now , but but sort mortgage purchase and refi . How close are we to a tipping point ?

Mike Grondahl: Got it. On the mortgage side, not home equity now, but sort of mortgage purchase and refi, how close are we to a tipping point? I think last Q you talked about maybe 575. Kind of what's your thoughts there? How should we handicap that?

Speaker #8: I think last quarter you talked about maybe $575 million—kind of what's your thoughts there? How should we handicap that?

Speaker #1: Yeah , I mean I it's it's still it's nice seeing a five handle on the 30 year rate right now . I mean that feels good .

Scott Peyree: Yeah, I mean, I-- it's still nice seeing a 5 handle on the 30-year rate right now. I mean, that feels good. It's still too high to really drive a lot of consumer traffic on, you know, specifically the refi side. You know, home purchase can be a lot more around just there's a lot bigger affordability issues, you know, more than just pure interest rates. I mean, there's still like, you know, when people are stuck, you know, when people sit on a 2.5, 3% interest rate, it's hard to convince them to go and buy a new house at a 6% rate or 5.98, whatever it is.

Speaker #1: It's still too high to to really drive a lot of consumer traffic on , you know , specifically the refi side , you know , you know , home purchase , home purchase can be a lot more around just there's a lot bigger affordability issues .

Speaker #1: You know , more than just pure interest rates . But I mean , there's still like , you know , when people are stuck , you know , when people sit on a two and a half , 3% interest rate , it's hard to convince them to go and buy a new house at a 6% rate or 5.5.98 or whatever it is , but I do think it 5.75 , as we've mentioned on previous calls , that is where you really start to see the snowball start to build , where you know , and there's the mortgage industry has has lost some metrics that you can look at as well .

Scott Peyree: I do think at 5.75, as we've mentioned on previous calls, that is where you really start to see the snowball start to build. Where, you know, the mortgage industry has lots of metrics that you can look at as well. Like, the 5.75 is really where you have more and more homeowners, quote-unquote, in the money on a cash out refi. Then 5.5.5, it really starts to build, you know. Then if you get below 5, it could really start being a tidal wave. I mean, I think we're a ways away from that. Hopefully that answers your question.

Speaker #1: But, like, the 5.75% is really where you have more and more homeowners, quote unquote, 'in the money' on a cash-out refi.

Speaker #1: And then five , five , five , it really starts to build , you know , and then if , if you get below five , it can really start being being a tidal wave .

Speaker #1: But I mean, I think we're a ways away from that. Hopefully that answers your question.

Speaker #8: Yeah . Thank you

Mike Grondahl: Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker #2: And our next question is a follow-up from the line of Youssef Squali of Securities. Your line is open.

Operator: Our next question is a follow-up from the line of Youssef Squali of Truist Securities. Your line is open.

Speaker #3: Yeah. Thanks, Scott. I think in the letter you mentioned something to the effect that partners were not incentivized to provide actionable quotes for automated bots.

Jason Bengel: Yeah. Thanks. Hey, Scott. I think in the letter you mentioned something to the effect that partners were not incentivized to provide actionable quotes for automated bots.

Youssef Squali: Yeah. Thanks. Hey, Scott. I think in the letter you mentioned something to the effect that partners were not incentivized to provide actionable quotes for automated bots.

Speaker #3: And I think you singled out loan insurance. Can you maybe just expand on that a little bit, please?

Scott Peyree: Yeah.

Jason Bengel: singled out insurance. Can you maybe just expand on that a little bit, please?

Speaker #1: I mean , I want to just I mean , insurance is a big one . I want to just single out insurance . I think there's a number of levels where there's there's incentive to do it .

Scott Peyree: I mean, insurance is a big one. I wouldn't just single out insurance. I think there's a number of levels where there's incentivation to do it, and then there's. I would also say there's capability to do it. You know, starting on the incentivation front, it's, and it's like you don't need AI or agentic AI for like. These insurance companies, for example, they could have made their actuarial tables available as a commodity 20 years ago to Google if they wanted to. You know, there was nothing stopping it from being embedded. They just, they've built big brands. They consider their rate information probably the most proprietary thing that they have as a company.

Speaker #1: And then there's I would also say there's capability to do it . You know , starting on the innovation front , it's in it's like you don't need AI or AI for like these insurance companies , for example , they could have made their actuarial tables available as a commodity 20 years ago to Google if they wanted to .

Speaker #1: You know , there was nothing stopping it from being embedded . But they just they've built big brands . They consider their rate information probably the most proprietary thing that they have as a company .

Speaker #1: And so they've always been always , not just recently extremely resistant to any sort of bot agentic or not like acts coming in and accessing their rate information .

Scott Peyree: They've always been, always, not just recently, extremely resistant to any sort of bot, agentic or not, like coming in and accessing their rate information. All indications in our conversations is they... I mean, they're very profitable. You know, they are offering rates direct to consumers that they want to and writing a lot of policies, and there's no real incentive or desire for them to really open the kimono there at the end of the day. There's a lot of insurance carriers that just simply aren't... You go to their website today, you could not get a rate online. I would say the majority of carriers are that way.

Speaker #1: And they all indications in our conversations is they I mean , they're very profitable . You know , they , they are offering rates direct to consumers that they want to and writing a lot of policies and there's no real incentive or desire for them to really open the kimono .

Speaker #1: There at the end of the day. And then, and then there's a lot of insurance carriers that just simply aren't. You go to their website today, you cannot get a rate online.

Speaker #1: I would say the majority of carriers are that way . Those basically say , like , hey , we're going to connect you to an agent or a call center , but you got to talk to someone over the phone or in person to get a rate .

Scott Peyree: They, those basically say like, Hey, we're gonna connect you to an agent or a call center rep, but you gotta talk to someone over the phone or in person, to get a rate. A lot of that's just simple capabilities, technical capabilities of providing rates. You go into the lending world. There's a lot of similarities in the lending world. A lot of our, like, small business lenders, for example, they don't even write direct to merchants. They write loans through brokers like us. It's like deep API logged in access we have to get their loan information. Like, these consumers wouldn't even know that these companies exist, you know, outside of talking out to us to get a loan.

Speaker #1: And a lot of that's just simple capabilities , technical capabilities of providing rates . And I was and you go into the lending world , there's a lot of similarities in the lending world .

Speaker #1: A lot of our like , small business lenders , for example , they don't even write direct to merchants . They write loans through brokers like us .

Speaker #1: So it's like deep API . Logged in access . We have to get their loan information like these . Consumers wouldn't even know that these companies exist .

Speaker #1: You know , outside of talking to us , to get a loan . So , I mean , so there's a bunch of hurdles from that side where I just don't think agentic AI overlay on going out , filling out a bunch of forms is really going to solve any consumer's problems anytime soon .

Scott Peyree: I mean, there's a bunch of hurdles from that side where I just don't think agentic AI overlay on going out, filling out a bunch of forms is really gonna solve any consumer's problems anytime soon.

Speaker #1: Yeah . And and in these industries specifically , like they're good like you take like real estate , there's a lot of publicly available information there .

Youssef Squali: Yeah.

Scott Peyree: In these industries specifically. Like there's real, like you take like real estate, there's a lot of publicly available information there, so it's a little easier to implement, you know, like a ChatGPT app there.

Speaker #1: So it's a little easier to implement , you know , like like a ChatGPT app . There .

Speaker #7: Yeah .

Youssef Squali: Yeah. Very helpful color. Thanks, Scott.

Speaker #3: Very helpful color. Thanks, Scott.

Speaker #1: Yeah .

Scott Peyree: Yeah.

Speaker #9: Okay .

Operator: Okay. I'm showing no further questions. I would now like to turn the conference back to Scott for closing remarks.

Speaker #2: And I'm showing no further questions. I would now like to turn the conference back to Scott for closing remarks.

Speaker #1: All right. Thank you, everybody, for joining and for all of your questions today. I hope we've given you helpful context around some of the incredible opportunities we're working on to enhance the marketplace.

Scott Peyree: All right. Thank you everybody, for joining, for all of your questions today. I hope we've given you helpful context around some of the incredible opportunities we're working on to enhance Marketplace. We're very excited about our path ahead and look forward to connecting with you again soon when we report our Q1 earnings.

Speaker #1: We're very excited about our path ahead and look forward to connecting with you again soon, when we report our first quarter earnings.

Operator: This concludes today's program. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect. Good day, and thank you for standing by. Welcome to the LendingTree Inc. Q4 2025 Earnings Call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's presentation, there will be a question and answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press star one one on your telephone. You will then hear an automated message advising that the hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again. Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded. I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today, Andrew Wessel, Head of Investor Relations. Please go ahead.

Speaker #2: Good day . And thank you for standing by Welcome to the LendingTree , Inc. . Fourth quarter 2020 Earnings Call . At this time , all participants are in a listen only mode .

Speaker #2: After the speaker's presentation , there will be a question and answer session . To ask a question during the session , you will need to press star one one on your telephone .

Speaker #2: You will then hear an automated message advising that the hand is raised. To withdraw your question, please press star one. One.

Speaker #2: Again . Please be advised that today's conference is being recorded . I would now like to hand the conference over to your first speaker today , Andrew Wessel , Head of Investor Relations .

Speaker #2: Please go ahead

Speaker #6: Thank you , Tanya , and hello to everyone joining us today to discuss our fourth quarter 2020 financial results . On with us are Scott Perry , president and CEO .

Andrew Wessel: Thank you, Tanya, and hello to everyone joining us today to discuss our Q4 2025 financial results. On with us are Scott Peyree, President and CEO, and Jason Bengel, CFO. This afternoon, we posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our investor relations website. For the purposes of today's discussion, we'll assume that listeners have read that letter, and we will focus on Q&A. Before I hand the call over to Scott for his remarks, I remind everyone that during this call, we may discuss LendingTree's expectations for future performance. Any forward-looking statements that we make are subject to risks and uncertainties, and LendingTree's actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Many but not all the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC.

Speaker #6: And Jason Bengal , CFO . This afternoon we posted a detailed letter to shareholders on our Investor Relations website . And for the purposes of today's discussion , we'll assume that listeners have read that letter and we will focus on Q&A Before I hand the call over to Scott for his remarks , I remind everyone that during this call , we may discuss LendingTree expectations for future performance .

Speaker #6: Any forward-looking statements that we make are subject to risks and uncertainties, and LendingTree's actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Many, but not all, of the risks we face are described in our periodic reports filed with the SEC.

Speaker #6: We will also discuss a variety of non-GAAP measures on the call, and I refer you to today's press release and shareholder letter, both available on our website, for the comparable GAAP definitions and full reconciliations of non-GAAP measures to GAAP.

Speaker #6: And with that, Scott, please go ahead.

Speaker #1: Thanks, Andrew. And thanks to everyone joining us today as we discuss our very strong fourth quarter and full year 2020 results.

Scott Peyree: Thanks, Andrew, thanks to everyone joining us today as we discuss our very strong Q4 and full year 2025 results. I will first touch on some of the highlights from our earnings release, then I'd like to take everyone through our 2026 strategy before opening it up for questions. First off, we had a fantastic 2025. VMD was up 14%. Adjusted EBITDA grew at double that pace, 28%. Each of our three reportable segments grew VMD at double-digit rates. Insurance again led the way as very strong demand from carriers, combined with our ability to take market share from competitors, generated $174 million of VMD, a 10% increase over the previous year. We have heard some of our peers call out slowing demand from the largest insurers in Q1.

Speaker #1: I will first touch on some of the highlights from our earnings release. And then I'd like to take everyone through our '26 strategy before opening it up for questions. First off, we had a fantastic 2025.

Speaker #1: VMD was up 14%. Adjusted EBITDA grew at double that pace. Each of our three reportable segments grew VMD at double-digit rates.

Speaker #1: Insurance again led the way, as very strong demand from carriers, combined with our ability to take market share from competitors, generated $174 million of BMD, a 10% increase over the previous year.

Speaker #1: We have heard some of our peers call out slowing demand from the largest insurers in Q1. I just want to tell everyone we are not seeing that at all.

Scott Peyree: I just want to tell everyone we are not seeing that at all ourselves as top carriers' budgets with us remain robust as they're targeting our high-quality consumers. In fact, we expect Q1 to be yet another record revenue quarter. The number four through 10 insurers on our network grew revenue by 65% with us in 2025 from the previous year, a testament to the strength and breadth of partners in our marketplace. Insurance gathered strength as the year progressed, finishing with record performance in Q4 that was just ahead of our previous record the year ago period. The momentum has carried through the start of 2026, and we expect another record year from the insurance division this year. Consumer group segment profit by 17% last year, anchored by a 60% revenue growth from our small business team.

Speaker #1: Ourselves, as top carriers, budgets with us remain robust as we are targeting our high-quality consumers. In fact, we expect Q1 to be yet another record revenue quarter. The number four through ten insurers on our network grew revenue by 65% with us in 2025 from the previous year.

Speaker #1: A testament to the strength and breadth of partners in our marketplace, Insurance gathered strength as the year progressed, finishing with record performance in the fourth quarter.

Speaker #1: That was just ahead of our previous record the year ago period . The momentum is carried through the start of 26 , and we expect another record year from from the insurance division this year Consumer segment products , consumer grew segment profit by 17% last year , anchored by a 60% revenue growth from our small business team .

Speaker #1: Similar to the insurance segment, our Consumer group of businesses strengthened throughout the course of the year, with segment profit increasing 24% in Q4 from the prior year and small business revenue growing a remarkable 78% year over year. Importantly, we have not sacrificed margin to generate this growth.

Scott Peyree: Similar to the insurance segment, our consumer group of businesses strengthened throughout the course of the year, with segment profit increasing 24% in Q4 from the prior year and small business revenue growing a remarkable 78% year-over-year. Importantly, we have not sacrificed margin to generate this growth. As segment margin for both the quarter and full year was stable at 51%. As a reminder, we have continually invested in additions to our small business concierge sales force, allowing us, you know, as well as lenders on the network, allowing us to help a greater number of business owners find the best loan options for them while guiding them through the often complex process of completing their application through to funding. Continuing to build out of this team is in our plans for 2026.

Speaker #1: Continuing the build out of this team is in our plans for 26 . The home segment recorded 6% year over year in revenue growth in revenue for the fourth quarter , although increasing media costs and lower conversion rates for our linear partners pressured segment margins .

Scott Peyree: The home segment recorded 6% year-over-year growth in revenue for Q4, although increasing media costs and lower conversion rates for our lender partners pressured segment margins. The national 30-year mortgage rate just dipped below 6% for the first time since 2022. We are hopeful lower rates will finally start to unlock what has historically been a historically slow mortgage market. The guidance we published today does not assume any continued improvement in rates, so we hope this means our home segment forecast will end up being conservative. The pace of AI and AI-enabled search innovation has continued to accelerate.

Speaker #1: The national 30 year mortgage rate just dipped below 6% for the first time since 2022 . We were hopeful lower rates will finally start to unlock what is historically been a , which has been a historically low mortgage market .

Speaker #1: The guidance we published today does not assume any continued improvement in rates, so we hope this means our Home segment forecast will end up being conservative. The pace of AI and AI-enabled search innovation has continued to accelerate.

Speaker #1: As I have said on previous calls, we view these new tools as fantastic opportunities for our business and they are a key component of the strategy we have developed to increase the number of high-intent visitors to our sites.

Speaker #1: To compare and shop for financial products. We understand investor fears around the threat of disintermediation to our business model. There are many legal and regulatory structures in place that would make it difficult for AI to overcome.

Speaker #1: Not to mention our own partners’ incentive structures that would negate the outcome. Instead of focusing on playing defense against these low-probability outcomes, we are embracing this innovative technology.

Scott Peyree: As mentioned in the letter, we've seen significant revenue growth to the tune of $10+ million in revenue growth per quarter over the last 6 quarters compared to OpEx growth of $few hundred thousand per quarter over the last 6 quarters in our call center operations. We've also seen efficient improvements that our marketing team has generated using AI-enabled technology to speed up design, ad testing, and funnel testing. This is shown with a 17% increase in overall conversions coming through our network year-over-year in Q4. That is with the headwind of legacy SEO coming down. The North Star of our company is to be the number one destination to shop for financial products.

Speaker #1: In our in our call center operations , we've also seen efficiency improvements in our marketing team has generated using AI enabled technology to speed up design , and testing and funnel testing .

Speaker #1: This is shown with a 17% increase in overall conversions coming through our network year over year . In the fourth quarter , and that is with the headwind of legacy SEO coming down our North Star is a company continues to be , I'm sorry , the North Star of our company is to be the number one destination to shop for financial products .

Speaker #1: Everything that goes into forming our long-term initiatives is based on this aspiration. We have the right to win, as LendingTree has the broadest network of financial partners of any consumer finance shopping site.

Scott Peyree: Everything that goes into forming our long-term initiatives is based on this aspiration. We have the right to win as LendingTree has the broadest network of financial partners of any consumer finance shopping site. Sourcing millions of visitors who are in the market for these products and want the best deal is our core competency. We will use these strengths as the bedrock to scale customer volumes and improve outcomes with enhanced experiences, new tools, and better matching. Our North Star strategy has four strategic pillars. Number one, accelerate the core business. Number two, improve the consumer experience. Number three, expand product offerings. Finally, Number four, rebuild and reposition our brand. I'd like to briefly hit on each of these pillars for the investors today. Number one, accelerate the core business.

Speaker #1: Sourcing millions of visitors who are in the market for these products and want the best deal is our core competency. We will use these strengths as the bedrock to scale customer volumes and improve outcomes with enhanced experiences.

Speaker #1: New tools and better matching . Our North Star strategy has four strategic pillars . Number one , accelerate the core business . Number two , improve the consumer experience .

Speaker #1: Number three , expand product offerings . And finally , number four , rebuild and reposition our brand . I'd like to briefly hit on each of these pillars for the investors today .

Speaker #1: Number one, accelerate the core business initiatives focused in this area. Focus on our existing businesses to support ongoing double-digit growth.

Scott Peyree: Initiatives focus in this growth area focus on our existing businesses to support ongoing double-digit growth. These strategic initiatives support driving more consumers to our network, providing more purchase options to consumers, and increasing monetization of our traffic via our distribution networks. Examples of areas we're focusing on now include the continued expansion of our SMB concierge sales force and network of lenders in SMB. The development of a concierge sales force in auto lending. Investments into tech product and sales teams for rapid expansion of our media business development capabilities, and tech investment into major upgrades of our marketing technology platforms. Number two, improve the consumer experience. In this pillar, the CX team is systematically resolving consumer pain points, often with the use of AI technology. Initiatives in this pillar focus on making shopping easier for what are often complicated financial products.

Speaker #1: The development of a concierge sales force and auto lending investments into tech, product, and sales teams for rapid expansion of our media business development capabilities, and tech investment into major upgrades of our marketing technology platforms.

Speaker #1: Number two , improve the consumer experience , and this pillar our the team is systematically resolving consumer pain points , often with the use of AI technology .

Speaker #1: Initiatives in this pillar are focused on making shopping easier for what are often complicated financial products. We are seeking to serve both consumers looking to transact, as well as consumers who are just window shopping.

Scott Peyree: We are seeking to serve both consumers looking to transact, as well as consumers who are just window shopping. The goal of this pillar is to become a trusted partner for the consumer when seeking financial products to drive an increase in return visits and referrals. Examples of this area that we're focusing on now include improving our logged-in experience, taking learnings from our Spring app to our website, such as making it easier to log in and customizing the homepage for logged-in users based on products they are shopping for. Also, simplifying the process to find and review offers they had previously received. Second, develop a personal loan rate table using our proprietary rate data we gather from millions of consumer shopping for loans on our network. Which will allow consumers to know what rates they should expect before applying.

Speaker #1: The goal of this pillar is to become a trusted partner for the consumer when seeking financial products, to drive an increase in return visits and referrals.

Speaker #1: Examples of this area of focusing on that we're focusing on now include improving our logged experience, taking learnings from our Spring app to our website, such as making it easier to log in and customizing the homepage for logged-in users based on products that they are shopping for.

Speaker #1: Also , simplifying the process to find and review offers they had previously received Second , develop a personal loan rate table using our proprietary rate data we gather from millions of consumers , consumer shopping for loans on our network , which will allow consumers to know what rates they should expect before applying .

Speaker #1: This tool can be provided on our website and our app. It can be embedded with our business development partners and, importantly, embedded within LMS.

Scott Peyree: This tool can be provided on our website, in our app, it can be embedded with our business development partners, and importantly, embedded within LLMs. Third pillar, expand our product offerings. This pillar focuses on the addition of categories of financial products offered to consumers. Our long-term strategic goal is to provide representation of all financial products a consumer could want. We do not have to manufacture a shopping experience for some products when we can instead identify and partner with industry-leading service providers. The focus over the next 18 months is to sign partnerships in areas such as commercial insurance, pet insurance, boat and RV insurance, wealth management, robo-advisors, student lending, and others. Finally, our fourth pillar, rebuild and reposition our brand. We have strong brand resilience with aided awareness, but need to rebuild the brand from an unaided awareness perspective.

Speaker #1: Third pillar: expand our product offerings. This pillar focuses on the addition of categories of financial products offered to consumers. Our long-term strategic goal is to provide representation of all financial products that consumers could want.

Speaker #1: We do not have to manufacture a shopping experience for some products when we can instead identify and partner with industry-leading service providers.

Speaker #1: We have strong brand resilience with added awareness, but need to rebuild the brand from an unaided awareness perspective. We also are focused on repositioning our brand to be a destination to shop for a wide variety of insurance, lending, and other financial products, where historically we've been associated more specifically with mortgage products.

Scott Peyree: We also are focused on repositioning our brand to be a destination to shop for a wide variety of insurance, lending, and other financial products, where historically we've been associated more specifically with mortgage products. In Q1, we made key brand hires and have begun the redesign of our homepage. Our goal is to target brand spend in several large geographic markets in the second half of this year, introducing new customers to our redesigned experience. Thank you everyone. I know that was a lot, but I thought it was important with our North Star and our new strategic focus to really lay it out for all of our investors. It was a little bit long-winded there, thank you for bearing with me. With that, I'll pause there and open the line to your questions about our results, outlook, and strategy.

Speaker #1: In Q1, we made key brand hires and have begun the redesign of our homepage. Our goal is to target brand spend in several large geographic markets.

Speaker #2: Certainly, as a reminder, please press star one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one one again.

Speaker #2: Please stand by while we compile our Q&A roster. Our first question will be coming from the line of Youssef Squali of Truist Securities.

Speaker #2: Your line is open .

Speaker #3: Great . Thank you guys for taking the question . And congrats on a strong quarter . Scott . Maybe can you talk a little bit about the the the sustainability of growth in insurance and really just trying to understand what the main drivers are ?

Youssef Squali: Great. Thank you guys for taking the question. Congrats on the strong quarter. Scott, maybe, can you talk a little bit about the sustainability of growth in insurance? Really just trying to understand what the main drivers are. I think you talked about how 4 out of the 10 insurance partners grew revenues, I think by 60% or 65%. Maybe can you peel that onion one more layer and just kind of describe exactly what's going on that's driving all that growth? I have a follow-up, please.

Speaker #3: I think you talked about how four out of ten insurance partners grew revenues, I think by 60 or 65% maybe. Can you peel that onion one more layer and just kind of describe exactly what's going on?

Speaker #3: What's driving all that growth? And I have a follow-up, please.

Speaker #1: Yeah , sure . No problem . Thanks . Thanks for the question . And just just to clarify what I was talking about with the providers is our carriers for through ten .

Scott Peyree: Yeah, sure. No problem, Youssef. Thanks for the question. Just to clarify, what I was talking about with the insurance providers is our carriers four through ten. Like after our top three carriers, the next seven carriers combined grew by 65% year-over-year. I was wanting to illustrate in that statement how it's just we aren't solely dependent. The top three carriers also grew a lot year-over-year, but just the growth is broad-based. Just it's not just purely based off the top three carriers. Even though our top three carriers, I mean, it's fair to say they still represent an outsized portion of our overall insurance revenue. Just to discuss on the sustainability of the insurance marketplace right now.

Speaker #1: So like after our top three carriers , the next seven carriers combined grew by 65% year over year . And I was I just wanted to illustrate in that statement how it's just we're we aren't solely dependent .

Speaker #1: The top three carriers also grew a lot year over year . But just the the growth is broad based . Just it's not just purely based off of the top three carriers .

Speaker #1: Even though our top three carriers , I mean , it's fair to say they still represent an outsized , outsized portion of our overall insurance revenue .

Scott Peyree: You know, the bottom line, I would start with the insurance carriers themselves remain very profitable. They had a great year last year. They've started the year well this year. You know, after many years of unprofitability and pulling back marketing spend amongst a bunch of other spends for a long time, they are now all very aggressive in growing market share, especially the top carriers. Honestly, I would say over the past 3 to 6 months, they've become more aggressive, if anything, of trying to fight over market share. We have just a lot of high-quality, high-intent consumers coming through our network.

Speaker #1: And it is . And honestly , I would say over the past 3 to 6 months , they've become more aggressive . If anything , of trying to fight over market share .

Scott Peyree: You know, the carriers know that our network is an extremely cost-effective way for them to get their insurance products in front of targeted high-intent insurance consumers. You know, as the year goes on, we expect to start seeing some rate decreases more aggressively from rate carriers, which will bring more consumers shopping into the marketplace. Carriers have continued to open up geographies. They're getting very open at this point. I mean, more geographies are open today than we were a year ago, as a general statement on procurers being willing to offer consumers product. Finally, just internally, as I mentioned with our marketing strategy, we've just done a very good job of increasing consumer traffic coming through our site.

Speaker #1: As a general statement for carriers being willing to offer consumers product . And then finally , just internally , as I mentioned , with our with our marketing strategy , we've just done a very good job of increasing consumer traffic coming through our site .

Speaker #1: We're out there, and we're in front of a lot more consumers now today than we were a year ago. And honestly, we look at our opportunities in front of us over the next year.

Scott Peyree: We're out there, and we're in front of a lot more consumers now, today than we were a year ago. Honestly, we look at our opportunities in front of us over the next year. We're very excited about continued growth in consumer traffic coming through our site for insurance products.

Speaker #1: We are very excited about continued growth in consumer traffic coming through our site for insurance products.

Speaker #3: Thank you . That's very that's very helpful . And then on the AI disintermediation topic , how are you ? Currently working or integrating with some of these LMS to try to stay visible ?

Youssef Squali: Thank you. That's very helpful. Then on the AI disintermediation topic, how are you currently working or integrating with some of these LLMs to try to stay visible basically as search transitions to more of a conversational kind of interface? Thanks.

Speaker #3: Basically, as search transitions to more of a conversational kind of interface. Thanks.

Speaker #1: Yeah , I would say there's a there's a number of fronts we're working on there . There's obviously the SEO front where where you're getting referenced by the LMS , driving consumers to our site .

Scott Peyree: Yeah, I said there's a number of fronts we're working on there. There's obviously the SEO front where you're getting referenced by the LLMs, driving consumers to our site. You know, we continue to focus on that, and it continues to grow. It's very high intent consumers, as I've mentioned on previous calls. I would say, you know, materially, it's still a pretty small percentage of our overall consumer base, but it's continuing to grow. Some of the LLMs, ChatGPT being an example, are looking to start testing some advertising, which we're excited about participating in.

Speaker #1: You know , we continue to focus on that . And it continues to grow . It's very high intent . Consumers , as I've mentioned on previous calls , I would say , you know , materially , it's still a pretty small percentage of our overall consumer base .

Speaker #1: But it's continuing to grow; some of the LMS, ChatGPT being an example, are looking to start testing some advertising, which we're excited about participating in.

Speaker #1: Again , I don't know how material to expect it to be in the in the calendar year 2026 . As far as quantity of consumers , but but it's exciting .

Scott Peyree: I don't know how material to expect it to be in the calendar year 2026 as far as quantity of consumers, but it's, you know, being that we are very, very good at paid advertising to get in front of consumers, we're excited about the LLMs starting to open up that. Just from a technology development standpoint, you know, we've been working at. You know, our teams on using AI development, conversational funnels, agentic AI bots to help get documentation necessary to finish application processes, developing, you know, comparison tools that helps consumers compare their offers, apples to apples. You know, it's the personal loans rate table I mentioned in my opening statements as an example.

Speaker #1: You know , being that we are very , very good at paid advertising to get in front of consumers , we're excited about the yellow LMS starting to open up that and then just from a technology development standpoint , you know , we've been working , at , you know , our teams on using AI development , conversational funnels , agentic , AI bots to help get documentation necessary to to finish application processes , developing , you know , comparison tools that helps consumers compare their offers .

Speaker #1: Apples to apples , you know , at personal loans rate table I mentioned in my opening statements as an example . I mean , we're we're building our a lot of technical chops on how to use AI in LMS style technology for front end consumer products .

Scott Peyree: I mean, we're building a lot of technical chops on how to use AI and LLM style technology for front-end consumer products. I would say that there's been varying levels of success on the consumer engagement standpoint at this point, but we're getting better and better at building it. As that consumer behavior starts to change, I think we'll be a leader in that space.

Speaker #1: I would say that there's been varying levels of success on the consumer engagement standpoint at this point. But I mean, we're getting better and better at building it.

Speaker #1: And as that consumer behavior starts to change, I think we'll be a leader in that space.

Speaker #3: Got it. Thank you. Best of luck.

Youssef Squali: Got it. Thank you. Best of luck.

Speaker #1: Thanks .

Scott Peyree: Thanks.

Speaker #2: And our next question will be coming from the line of Ryan Tomasello of KBW. Your line is open.

Operator: Our next question will be coming from the line of Ryan Tomasello of KBW. Your line is open.

Speaker #5: Hi , everyone . This is Juan on for Ryan . Thanks for taking the questions . Can you talk about the targeted brand investments in the second half of the year ?

[Analyst] (KBW): Hi, everyone. This is Juan on for Ryan. Thanks for taking the questions. Can you talk about the targeted brand investments in the second half of the year? What's driving that decision? If you could size the amount of the investment relative to 2025.

[Company Representative] (KBW): Hi, everyone. This is Juan on for Ryan. Thanks for taking the questions. Can you talk about the targeted brand investments in the second half of the year? What's driving that decision? If you could size the amount of the investment relative to 2025.

Speaker #5: What's driving that decision? And if you could size the amount of the investment relative to 2025.

Speaker #1: Yeah, I'll just start at a high level. And Jason, you can throw in, like, the level of investments I want.

Scott Peyree: Yeah. I'll just start at a high level. Jason, you can throw in, like, the level of investments if you wanna talk about that. You know, it's just a critical part of our North Star strategy, you know, to be the number one destination to shop for financial products. As we looked at the landscape and our brand, we've got a really strong brand, and we're very proud of the brand we've developed. We haven't invested a ton on the pure basis of our brand over the past few years. Whereas our brand is very good on an aided awareness perspective with consumers, it's not very good on unaided awareness.

Speaker #1: If you want to talk about that . But you know that that was it's just a critical part of our North Star strategy is , you know , to be the number one destination to shop for financial products .

Speaker #1: And as , as we looked at the landscape and our brand , we've got a really strong brand and we're very proud of the brand we've developed the two core .

Speaker #1: We haven't invested a ton on the basis of our brand over the past few years, and so whereas our brand is very good on an aided awareness perspective with consumers, it's not very good on unaided awareness.

Speaker #1: So we feel it's important to get out there, especially now that we want to reposition ourselves as a destination for all financial product shopping.

Scott Peyree: We feel it's important to get out there, especially now that we wanna reposition ourselves as a destination for all financial product shopping, whereas historically, a lot of consumers really associate us specifically with mortgage and mortgage shopping. We wanna, you know, the goal is at the end of the day to really get to the point where an average consumer on the street, we're one of the first companies that comes to their mind if they're thinking about shopping for financial products. That's really what we wanna start.

Speaker #1: Whereas historically , a lot of consumers really associate us specifically with mortgage and mortgage shopping . So we want to , you know , the goal is at the end of the day , to really get to the point where an average consumer on the street , we are one of the first companies that comes to their mind .

Speaker #1: If they're thinking about shopping for financial products . And that's really what we want to start . And so we we want to go in the second half of this year , with the redesigned homepage experience , a couple of pages with some different messaging , some different types of messaging from from a brand advertising perspective .

Scott Peyree: We wanna go in the second half of this year with the redesigned homepage experience, a couple pages with some different messaging, some different types of messagings, from a brand advertising perspective, and go into some large markets where we have good positioning with all of our financial products, some geographic markets where we can test different messaging and see what sticks and lands with the consumers well before we really roll it out on a national basis. You know, that will probably start happening kind of mid Q3 to mid Q4. Jason, you wanna hit on just the investment levels we're looking at?

Speaker #1: And go into some large markets where we have good positioning with all of our financial products, some geographic markets where we can test different messaging and see what sticks and lands with the consumer as well.

Speaker #1: Before we really roll it out on a national basis . And so , you know , that will probably start happening kind of mid Q3 to mid Q4 .

Speaker #1: Jason, you want to hit on just the investment levels we're looking at.

Speaker #6: Yeah , that's like Scott said , this is , you know , probably more in the second half . And you know , the amount that we spend is going to be a function of of how well we're performing .

Jason Bengel: Yeah. Like Scott said, this is, you know, probably more in the second half. you know, the amount that we spend is gonna be a function of how well we're performing, I guess, is thing one, and then also, you know, how well that brand spend itself is performing as well. If it performs and exceeds our expectations, then we may wind up leaning into it. The guidance does contemplate at least, you know, an initial investment where we're starting to roll this out and starting to do some testing. The investment itself is at least, you know, initially probably less than $10 million as we're thinking about it in guidance.

Speaker #6: I guess this thing won, and then also, you know, how well that brand spend itself is performing as well. So if it performs and exceeds our expectations, then we may wind up leaning into it.

Speaker #6: And the guidance does contemplate at least an initial investment where we're starting to roll this out and starting to do some testing.

Speaker #6: But the investment itself is, at least initially, probably less than $10 million as we're thinking about it. And guidance.

Speaker #6: Yeah , sure . Happy to . So yeah , I'll just talk through segment by segment how we're thinking about the guide . So first home , you know the backdrop for home .

Jason Bengel: Yeah, sure. Happy to. Yeah, I'll just talk through segment by segment, how we're thinking about the guide. First home. You know, the backdrop for home, we're not assuming any real rate benefit for home. We've seen some rate decreases coming through, but we're not assuming any going forward. That would be upside to the guide. Generally home, you know, home equity should have support with re-record home equity balances. At the end of the day, there's still not a lot of consumers out there shopping, and we have seen some increase in competition with causing media costs to increase. Margin-wise, you know, I would say we expect home to be roughly where it was landing in Q4.

Speaker #6: We're not assuming any real rate benefit for Home. We've seen some rate decreases coming through, but we're not assuming any going forward.

Speaker #6: That would be upside to to the guide . Generally , home you know , home equity should have support with record home equity balances .

Speaker #6: But at the end of the day, there's still not a lot of consumers out there shopping. And we have seen some increase in competition, which is causing media costs to increase.

Speaker #6: And we are investing in expanding our small lender network , which which will provide some margin support Going on to consumer , you know , consumer , the real driver is going to be small business .

Speaker #6: The merchant cash advance market is a strong market that's growing . We've been investing in our concierge experience , the staffing , the marketing channel , placements to drive high quality traffic .

Speaker #6: We expect all of that to continue into 2026. That's a model that's really working well for us. Personal loans. We move on to personal loans.

Speaker #6: You know , record credit card balances provide a great use case for debt consolidation in 2026 . But 2025 did see quite a bit of expansion by box expansions , which were not expecting to repeat in the 2026 .

Jason Bengel: 2025 did see quite a bit of expansions, Buy Box expansions, which we're not expecting to repeat in 2026. We're being, you know, maybe a little bit more measured when it comes to PL growth expectations. There we're focused on better matching consumers with lenders, and finding additional sources of traffic to feed those lenders. Margin wise, it's, you know, generally where we have been in Q4, I think is probably fair. It will bounce around, I think Q4 is generally a decent starting point. Then insurance, you know, when it comes to insurance, that back-backdrop is very favorable. Like, for all the reasons Scott said, you know, carriers are becoming more competitive for market share and policies. They really wanna grow policies.

Speaker #6: So we're being , you know , maybe a little bit more measured when it comes to RPL growth expectations . And there we're focused on better matching consumers with lenders and finding additional sources of traffic to to feed those lenders margin wise , it's , you know , generally where where we have been in Q4 , I think is probably fair .

Speaker #6: It will bounce around . But I think Q4 is generally a decent starting point . And then insurance , you know , when it comes to insurance , that backdrop is very favorable for all the reasons Scott said .

Speaker #6: You know, carriers are becoming more competitive for market share and policies. They really want to grow policies. Their profitability is extremely strong.

Jason Bengel: Their profitability is extremely strong, you know, with selective rate decreases coming through, that should spur additional traffic, which should support the CPL side of the house, the cost per lead. Backdrop is really strong. Things we're doing, we're really focused on improving our margin. We're making some key investments in MarTech to make sure we grab more margin. We're seeing a lot of that come through already in January and February and Q1. We've noticed material increase in margins from where we were in Q4, and we expect that generally to continue throughout the year. I think just candidly, you know, we are running hotter than when we expected in Q1 in insurance. The backdrop is favorable.

Speaker #6: And , you know , with with selective rate decreases coming through , that should spur additional traffic , would , should support the CPL side of the house .

Speaker #6: The cost per lead . So backdrop is really is really strong things we're doing . We're really focused on improving our margin . We're making some key investments in martech to make sure we grab more margin .

Speaker #6: And so I think, just candidly, you know, we are running hotter than we expected in Q1 in insurance. And so the backdrop is favorable.

Speaker #6: We have no indications that it's going to slow down, but it's, you know, when it comes to the guide, we're also being a little bit cautious.

Speaker #6: It's only been two months. We kind of—we don't want to bake in this very, very strong performance for the rest of the year yet.

Speaker #6: So to be totally , totally candid , we are we are pulling that down a little bit . And being a little bit more conservative just to be prudent when it comes to the insurance segment .

Speaker #6: And then, like we said, you know, we do want to allow ourselves room to spend in brand as it relates to the strategy.

Speaker #6: So, I mean, I think that's generally some color on each of the pieces there. Hopefully that's helpful.

Speaker #5: Yep. Got it. I appreciate all the detail, and congrats on the print.

[Analyst] (KBW): Yep, got it. Appreciate all the detail and congrats on the print.

[Company Representative] (KBW): Yep, got it. Appreciate all the detail and congrats on the print.

Speaker #2: And our next question will be coming from the line of Jed Kelly of Oppenheimer & Co. Your line is open.

Operator: Our next question will be coming from the line of Jed Kelly of Oppenheimer & Co. Your line is...

Speaker #7: Great, thanks for taking my question. Can you hear me? Okay.

Jed Kelly: Great. Thanks for taking my question. Can you hear me okay?

Speaker #1: Yep .

Jason Bengel: Yep.

Speaker #7: Okay . Great . Yeah , I was cutting in and out . Yeah . Just can you just just in your shareholder letter , can you kind of explain more of , like , what's going on with these trigger leads and how that benefits ?

Jed Kelly: Okay, great. Yeah, I was cutting in and out. Yeah, just, can you just in your shareholder letter, can you kind of explain more of like what's going on with these trigger leads and how that benefits? Then I'm kinda taking the last comments around the guidance. Are we kinda coming into an environment when the insurance segment is just now a lot more predictable and easier than for you guys to forecast than it has been the last five years? Then I have a follow-up.

Speaker #7: And then kind of I'm kind of taking the the last comments around the guidance . Are we kind of coming into an environment with when the insurance segment is just now a lot more predictable and easier for you guys to forecast than it has been the last five years that I have a follow up

Speaker #1: All right . I'll start with hitting on the trigger leads . Jed , and then we can go to the insurance . So the trigger leads is for those that don't know the trigger leads the the the very basic version of that is when , for example , when we develop a lead and sell to our mortgage providers and then they do a hard credit pull to , to provide a firm offer to the consumers , then the credit bureaus will send it will trigger them .

Jason Bengel: All right. I'll start with hitting on the trigger leads, Jed, and then we can go on the insurance. The trigger leads is for those that don't know the trigger leads, the very basic version of that is when, for example, when we develop a lead and sell to our mortgage providers, and then they do a hard credit pull to provide a firm offer to the consumers, then the credit bureaus will send it will trigger them. That's why they call trigger leads. They'll be triggered to sell it off to a bunch of, like, third-party buyers that we have no association with, our clients have no association with.

Speaker #1: That's why they call it a trigger. They'll be triggered to sell it off to a bunch of third-party buyers that we have no association with.

Speaker #1: Our clients have no association with , but it's basically saying , like , hey , this consumer just got a hard pull on their credit for from an insurance from a , I'm sorry , a mortgage company .

Jason Bengel: It's basically saying, like, Hey, this consumer just got a hard pull on their credit from a, I'm sorry, a mortgage company. Maybe you might want to call them to see if... It turns into a really horrible consumer experience where, like, they're about to close a mortgage, and then all of a sudden, they're getting another 50 or 60 calls from no, you know, who knows who. The long story short is Congress passed a bill that basically said that can no longer happen. And that's coming in. Jason, Andrew, I don't know the exact date. It's quick 'cause it's Dennis.

Speaker #1: So, so maybe you might want to call them to see if so. So it turns into a really horrible consumer experience where, like, they're about to close a mortgage, and then all of a sudden they're getting another 50 or 60 calls from—

Speaker #1: No , you know , who knows who . So , so so the long story short is Congress passed a bill that basically said that can no longer happen .

Speaker #1: And that's coming in Jason . Andrew , I don't know the exact date . It's quick . That is this week , this week .

Mike Grondahl: This week.

Jason Bengel: This week, that's coming out. It helps us on the front end of the quality of our traffic because now you don't have our clients when they're giving their firm offers to the consumers, it's not triggering like 50 calls on the back end. That will really help the consumer experience and the quality of our leads to our direct clients. Secondly, how it helps us, there's a lot of buyers of these trigger leads.

Speaker #1: That's coming up. So, it helps us on the front end with the quality of our traffic, because now you don't have our clients, when they're giving their firm offers to the consumers.

Speaker #1: It's not triggering, like, 50 calls on the back end. So, like, that will really help the consumer experience and the quality of our leads to our direct clients.

Speaker #1: Secondly , how it helps us , there's a lot of buyers of these trigger leads that can that will no longer be able to buy these leads .

Scott Peyree: That will no longer be able to buy these leads. We think that will drive many companies to come to buy these consumers on the front end from the likes of us, which should help our monetization. I'm sorry, Jed, what was your second question around insurance?

Speaker #1: And so we think that will drive many companies to come to buy these consumers on the front end from the likes of us, which should help our monetization.

Speaker #1: And I'm sorry, Jeff, what was your second question around insurance?

Speaker #7: Just, are we kind of entering this period? Yeah, like the predictability following, like, the last five years of a decent amount of volatility.

Jed Kelly: Just are we kind of entering this period? Yeah. The predictability following like last five years of a decent amount of volatility.

Speaker #1: Yeah . I think the short answer there is , yes , it seems you know , I not that there is I mean there'll always be some level of carriers leaning in and leaning out .

Scott Peyree: Yeah. I think the short answer there is yes. It seems... You know, I mean, there'll always be some level of carriers leaning in and leaning out, and that's why we manage a large network and keep all of that. I do feel like the past 2 quarters has been, there's been a lot more stability than maybe the previous 8 quarters were, and I expect that to continue. I expect the changes in, you know, geographic targeting, demographic targeting, total ad spend to be a lot slower, a lot lower swings than they've been in recent history. Jason, do you have anything to add to that?

Speaker #1: In . I expect that to continue . And I expect the changes in , you know , geographic targeting , demographic targeting , total ad spend to be a lot slower or a lot lower swings than they've been in recent history .

Speaker #1: Jason, do you have anything to add to that?

Speaker #6: Yeah , I yeah , I agree , I would just I would just add on like the , you know , the market will be less defined by two carriers .

Jason Bengel: Yeah, I agree. I would just add on, like, you know, the market will be less defined by two carriers, I think, as we progress throughout 2026. You know, as we said, you know, we saw a lot of strong growth from the next seven carriers. As it becomes more competitive, as more carriers really start to come into the market and play a more prominent position in our market, we'll be less defined by, you know, a smaller number of carriers. That should help with predictability.

Speaker #6: I think as we progress throughout 2026 , you know , as we said , you know , we saw a lot of strong growth from the next seven carriers .

Speaker #6: And so as as it becomes more competitive , as more carriers really start to come into the market and play more prominent position in our market will be will be less defined by , you know , a smaller number of carriers so that that should help the predictability .

Speaker #7: And can I just sneak one more in?

Jed Kelly: Can I just sneak one more in?

Speaker #1: Sure .

Scott Peyree: Sure.

Jed Kelly: Just we've had a drawdown in valuation in most of this sector. You know, can you just talk about I get wanting to get your debt down below $200 million and potentially maybe do buybacks? Can you talk about just potentially the acquisition landscape where you've seen valuations come in quite a bit with what's been going on over the last couple of months?

Speaker #7: Just we've had a drawdown in valuations in most of this . Most of the sector , you know , can you just talk about I get wanting to get your debt down below 200 million .

Speaker #7: And, potentially, maybe do buybacks. But can you talk about just, potentially, the acquisition landscape, where you've seen valuations come in quite a bit with what's been going on over the last couple of months?

Speaker #1: Sure . I'll start on that . And Jason , you can feel free . Feel free to add in . I mean , there's I you know , it is a big priority for us to bring to bring down our total debt load and especially , you know , as , as a multiple , you know , so we are very focused on continuing to do that and looking at that .

Scott Peyree: Sure. I'll start on that. Jason, you can feel free to add in. I mean, you know, it is a big priority for us to bring down our total debt load, and especially, you know, as a multiple on... You know, we are very focused on continuing to do that and looking at that. Jed, as you said, with valuations coming down pretty significantly across the board, there's no denying that that makes opportunities out there become a lot more interesting. Now, it's always the classic, it takes two to tango, right?

Speaker #1: Jed , as you said , with valuations coming down pretty significantly across the board , it's there's no denying that that makes opportunities out there become become a lot more interesting now .

Speaker #1: It always it's always the classic . It takes two to tango right . You know you deal with this scenario where some others out there , you know , view that their value is is way below where it should be .

Scott Peyree: You know, you deal with a scenario where some others out there, you know, view that their value is way below where it should be, and that makes them less interested in M&A sort of activity, which I totally understand personally. Yeah, could it potentially drive, because if it sustains over a longer period of time, could it potentially drive consolidation? I think absolutely it could. Are we interested in it? Yes. Are we aggressively pursuing it at this point in time? No.

Speaker #1: And that makes them less interested in M&A sort of activity which which I totally understand personally . But but yeah , that could yeah could potentially drive because if it's sustains over longer period of time could it could potentially drive consolidation .

Speaker #1: I think absolutely it could . Are we are are we interested in it . Yes . Are we aggressively pursuing pursuing it at this point in time ?

Speaker #1: No

Speaker #7: Thank you .

Jed Kelly: Thank you.

Speaker #6: Yeah . Sorry . I would just tack on , you know , our our soft we have one on one soft call on our , on our term loan that was up in February .

Jason Bengel: Yeah. I would just tack on, you know, our 1-on-1 soft call on our term loan. That was up in February. We are free now to pay down debt at par. You know, kinda like we're saying here, like, the uncertainty is significant out there. Right now, when you have that much uncertainty, like let's just hold on to cash and, you know, for at least the short term here, like we're not gonna pay down debt. We're gonna accumulate cash and maintain flexibility, just given how dynamic things are at the moment.

Speaker #6: So we are free now to to pay down debt at par . But you know kind of like we're saying here like the uncertainty is is significant out there .

Speaker #6: So so right now when you have that much uncertainty like let's just hold on to cash and , you know , let's for at least the , the short term here like let's we're not going to pay down debt .

Speaker #6: We're going to accumulate cash and maintain flexibility, just given how dynamic things are at the moment.

Speaker #7: Thank you, and nice job.

Jed Kelly: Thank you, and nice job.

Speaker #1: Thanks

Jason Bengel: Thanks.

Operator: To ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone. Our next question will be coming from the line of Mike Grondahl of Northland. Your line is open.

Speaker #2: To ask a question , please press star one one on your telephone . Our next question will be coming from the line of Mike Grondahl of Northland .

Speaker #2: Your line is open .

Speaker #8: Hey , guys . Thank you . Scott , if you could , could you maybe talk about the visibility you have in the business today for revenue versus maybe six months or a year ago

Mike Grondahl: Hey, guys. Thank you. Scott, if you could you maybe talk about the visibility you have in the business today for revenue versus maybe six months or a year ago?

Scott Peyree: Yeah, sure. I mean, I think the visibility for revenue in 2026 is pretty solid. I mean, I don't expect massive pendulum swings. I mean, I do think our ability to drive more consumer traffic at an outsized pace will continue to drive revenue growth because I think, I would say pretty much every industry we're in right now, if we have the ability to drive more quality consumers at the existing monetization levels, our clients will keep buying those consumers and wanting to get their products in front of those consumers. It's, I would almost argue our revenue is much more dependent now on our ability to continue driving more and more consumers to our network than it is on clients opening up a lot more budget.

Speaker #1: Yeah , yeah , sure . I mean , I think the visibility for revenue in 26 is , is pretty solid . I mean , I don't I don't expect massive pendulum swings .

Scott Peyree: Yeah, sure. I mean, I think the visibility for revenue in 2026 is pretty solid. I mean, I don't expect massive pendulum swings. I mean, I do think our ability to drive more consumer traffic at an outsized pace will continue to drive revenue growth because I think, I would say pretty much every industry we're in right now, if we have the ability to drive more quality consumers at the existing monetization levels, our clients will keep buying those consumers and wanting to get their products in front of those consumers. It's, I would almost argue our revenue is much more dependent now on our ability to continue driving more and more consumers to our network than it is on clients opening up a lot more budget.

Speaker #1: And so, that does go to, like, creating more predictability in the revenue.

Scott Peyree: That does go to, like, creating more predictability in the revenue.

Speaker #8: Got it . And on the mortgage side , not home equity now , but but sort of mortgage purchase and refi . How close are we to a tipping point ?

Mike Grondahl: Got it. On the mortgage side, not home equity now, but that sort of mortgage purchase and refi, how close are we to a tipping point? I think last quarter you talked about maybe 575. Kind of what's your thoughts there? How should we handicap that?

Speaker #8: I think last quarter you talked about maybe $575. Kind of, what's your thoughts there? How should we handicap that?

Speaker #1: Yeah , I mean I it's it's still it's nice seeing a five handle on the 30 year rate right now . I mean that feels good .

Scott Peyree: Yeah, I mean, it's still nice seeing a 5 handle on the 30-year rate right now. I mean, that feels good. It's still too high to really drive a lot of consumer traffic on, you know, specifically the refi side. You know, home purchase. Home purchase can be a lot more around just there's a lot bigger affordability issues, you know, more than just pure interest rates. I mean, there's still like, you know, when people are stuck, you know, when people sit on a two and a half, 3% interest rate, it's hard to convince them to go and buy a new house at a 6% rate or 5.98 or whatever it is.

Speaker #1: It's still too high to to really drive a lot of consumer traffic on , you know , specifically the refi side . You know , you know , home purchase , home purchase can be a lot more around just there's a lot bigger affordability issues .

Speaker #1: You know , more than just pure interest rates . But I mean , there's still like , you know , when people are stuck , you know , when people sit on a two and a half , 3% interest rate , it's hard to convince them to go and buy new house at a 6% rate or 5.5.98 or whatever it is , but I do think it 5.75 , as we've mentioned on previous calls , that is where you really start to see the snowball start to build , where , you know , and there's the mortgage industry has has lost some metrics that you can look at as well .

Scott Peyree: I do think at 5.75, as we've mentioned on previous calls, that is where you really start to see the snowball start to build. Where, you know, the mortgage industry has lots of metrics that you can look at as well. Like, the 5.75 is really where you have more and more homeowners, quote-unquote, in the money on a cash-out refi. Then 5.5, at 5.5, it really starts to build, you know. If you get below 5, it can really start being a tidal wave. I mean, I think we're ways away from that. Hopefully that answers your question.

Speaker #1: But, like, the 5.75 is really where you have more and more homeowners, quote unquote, 'in the money' on a cash-out refi.

Speaker #1: And then five , five , five , five , it really starts to build , you know , and then if if you get below five , it can really start being being a tidal wave .

Speaker #1: But I mean, I think we're a ways away from that. Hopefully that answers your question.

Speaker #8: Yeah . Thank you

Mike Grondahl: Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker #2: And our next question is a follow-up from the line of Youssef Squali of Truist Securities. Your line is open.

Operator: Our next question is a follow-up from the line of Youssef Squali of Truist Securities. Your line is open.

Speaker #3: Yeah . Thanks . Scott . I think in the letter you mentioned something to the effect that partners were not incentivized to . Provide actionable quotes for automated bots .

Youssef Squali: Yeah, thanks. Hey, Scott, I think in the letter you mentioned something to the effect that partners were not incentivized to provide actionable quotes for automated bots. I think you singled out loan insurance. Can you maybe just expand on that a little bit, please?

Speaker #3: And I think you singled out loan insurance. Can you maybe just expand on that a little bit, please?

Speaker #1: I mean , I want to just I mean , insurance is a big one . I want to just single out insurance . I think there's a number of levels where there's there's incentives to do it .

Scott Peyree: I mean, insurance is a big one. I wouldn't just single out insurance. I think there's a number of levels where there's incentivation to do it. I would also say there's capability to do it. You know, starting on the incentivation front, and it's like you don't need AI or agentic AI for like... These insurance companies, for example, they could have made their actuarial tables available as a commodity 20 years ago to Google if they wanted to. There, you know, there was nothing stopping it from being embedded. They've built big brands. They consider their rate information probably the most proprietary thing that they have as a company.

Speaker #1: And then there's I would also say there's capability to do it . You know , starting on the front . It's it's like you don't need AI or AI for like these insurance companies , for example , they could have made their actuarial tables available as a commodity 20 years ago to Google if they wanted to .

Speaker #1: You know , there was nothing stopping it from being embedded , but they just they've built big brands . They consider their rate information probably the most proprietary thing that they have as a company .

Speaker #1: And so they've always been, always—not just recently—extremely resistant to any sort of bot, agentic or not, like acts coming in and accessing their rate information.

Scott Peyree: They've always been, always, not just recently, extremely resistant to any sort of bot, agentic or not, like, coming in and accessing their rate information. They all indications in our conversations is they, I mean, they're very profitable. You know, they are offering rates direct to consumers that they want to and writing a lot of policies, and there's no real incentive or desire for them to really open the kimono there at the end of the day. Then there's a lot of insurance carriers that just simply aren't... You go to their website today, you could not get a rate online. I would say the majority of carriers are that way. They...

Speaker #1: And there's no real incentive or desire for them to really open the kimono there at the end of the day. And then, and then there's a lot of insurance carriers that just simply aren't.

Speaker #1: You go to their website today, you could not get a rate online. I would say the majority of carriers are that way.

Scott Peyree: Those basically say like, Hey, we're gonna connect you to an agent or a call center rep, but you gotta talk to someone over the phone or in person to get a rate. A lot of that's just simple capabilities, technical capabilities of providing rates. You go into the lending world, there's a lot of similarities in the lending world. A lot of our, like, small business lenders, for example, they don't even write direct to merchants. They write loans through brokers like us. It's like deep API logged in access we have to get their loan information. Like, these consumers wouldn't even know that these companies exist, you know, outside of talking out to us to get a loan. I mean...

Speaker #1: Those basically say , like , hey , we're going to connect you to an agent or a call center rep , but you got to talk to someone over the phone or in person .

Speaker #1: To get a rate . And a lot of that's just simple capabilities , technical capabilities of providing rates . And I was and you go into the lending world , there's a lot of similarities in the lending world .

Speaker #1: A lot of our like , small business lenders , for example , they don't even write direct to merchants . They write loans through brokers like us .

Speaker #1: So it's like deep API . Logged in access . We have to get their loan information like these . Consumers wouldn't even know that these companies exist .

Speaker #1: You know , outside of talking to us to get a loan . So I mean , so there's a bunch of hurdles from that side where I just don't think agentic AI overlay on going out , filling out a bunch of forms is really going to solve any consumer's problems anytime soon .

Scott Peyree: There's a bunch of hurdles from that side where I just don't think agentic AI overlay on going out, filling out a bunch of forms is really gonna solve any consumer's problems anytime soon.

Youssef Squali: Yeah.

Scott Peyree: In these industries specifically. Like, there's real Like, you take, like, real estate, there's a lot of publicly available information there, so it's a little easier to implement, you know, like a, like a ChatGPT app there.

Speaker #1: Yeah . And in , in these industries specifically , like they're good like you take like real estate , there's a lot of publicly available information there .

Speaker #1: So it's a little easier to implement , you know , like like a ChatGPT app . There .

Youssef Squali: Yeah. Very helpful color. Thanks, Scott.

Speaker #3: Yeah. Very helpful, color. Thanks, Scott.

Scott Peyree: Yeah.

Speaker #1: Yeah .

Operator: Okay. I'm showing no further questions. I would now like to turn the conference back to Scott for closing remarks.

Speaker #9: Okay .

Speaker #2: And I'm showing no further questions. I would now like to turn the conference back to Scott for closing remarks.

Scott Peyree: All right. Thank you everybody, for joining, for all of your questions today. I hope we've given you helpful context around some of the incredible opportunities we're working on to enhance the marketplace. We're very excited about our path ahead and look forward to connecting with you again soon when we report our Q1 earnings.

Speaker #1: We're very excited about our path ahead and look forward to connecting with you again soon, when we report our first quarter earnings.

Operator: This concludes today's program. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

Q4 2025 LendingTree Inc Earnings Call

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