Operator: Welcome to the Clariane Q3 2026 revenue presentation. For the first part of the conference call, participants will be in listen-only mode. However, during the questions and answers session, participants are able to ask questions. This can be done by dialing #5 on their telephone keypad or by typing a question in the chat box. Now I will hand the conference over to the management team. Please go ahead.
Sophie Boissard: Thank you, operator. Ladies and gentlemen, dear investors and financial partners, good afternoon and welcome to the Clariane Group's 9 months 2026 revenue presentation. I am Sophie Boissard, Chief Executive Officer of Clariane. Together with Grégory Lovichi, our Chief Financial Officer, I will review our 9 months performance, the refinancing program we executed, and our outlook for 2026 and 2028. As you see on the slide, you have the agenda for the session. I will first begin with the main highlights of the 3 last quarters. I will then provide you with a brief update on how our European network looks like. 3, I will share with you a major development of our Clariane University. Grégory will then take you through revenue performance and the refinancing transaction in greater detail.
Sophie Boissard: Last but not least, I will return for the final section to recall the operating priorities supporting our midterm plan, Succeed Together, and to confirm our objectives. Let us move to slide number 4 and 5. Yes. Thank you very much. Let me start with the main messages from the first 9 months of 2026. Our results confirm the solid operating momentum we established in the H2 2025, alongside the successful completion of our refinancing program. First, Clariane revenue reached EUR 4 billion and 50 million at the end of September, with an organic growth of +4.7% and a reported growth of 1.9%. In the Q3, organic growth is accelerating at +4.9%, to be compared with a +4.6% in the H1. All activities and geographies have been contributing, supported by volume, pricing, and cases effect.
Sophie Boissard: The long-term care segment delivered +5.2% organic growth and the specialty care segment +2.9%. Overall, occupancy progression remains an important driver. The average occupancy rates in our medicalized nursing homes reached 92.2% over 9 months, +1.4 percentage point year on year, and 93% in Q3. France deserves a particular mention. Q3 occupancy in medicalized nursing home reached 91.1%, to be compared with 99.5% a year earlier. Specialty care under the brand Inicea is benefiting from the measures we have taken in H2 2025 to adapt our network to the post-acute financing reform, alongside growth in outpatient care. These operating improvements are supporting renewed price and volume momentum in this very segment. Let us move now to the second part of the slide.
Sophie Boissard: We have completed approximately EUR 2.3 billion of refinancing transactions, including around EUR 1.6 billion in bond issues and a new EUR 700 million revolving credit facility. Our financial structure is now definitely simpler, with principal debt maturities extended to 2030, 2031, and 2032. With 92% of our total financial debt at fixed rates or hedged, we are well-defensed against interest rate movements. Last but not least, important to notice that Moody's credit analysis review on 27 October confirmed the group rating, B2 rating, outlook stable. I would also like to recall the remarkable commitment of our teams during the heatwaves and wildfires this summer. Their preparation, their responsiveness, and their professionalism were essential in caring for and supporting residents and patients, and in contributing to the response in affected local communities.
Sophie Boissard: Third, as planned in our corporate project Succeed Together, we are further expanding Clariane University's training activities by integrating a renowned institution in Paris region called the Fondation Œuvre de la Croix Saint-Simon. With this move, our corporate university will add 7 schools dedicated to the training of nurses, of care assistants, and social workers, which represent an increase in its training capacities by 15% as of 2027. I will return to this in a moment. Finally, we confirm all our financial and non-financial objectives for both the 2023, 2026 period and our 2025, 2028 medium-term plan guidance. I will return to this objective at the end of the presentation. Let us move now to slide number 6, which recall how the networks look like. As you see here, we operate a very diversified and large-scale network across Europe.
Sophie Boissard: As of 30 September, we operate 1,224 facilities and 89,141 authorized beds in 6 European countries. Our platform spans long-term care and specialty care, from medicalized nursing homes and alternative living solutions to specialty and post-acute and mental health facilities. France remains our largest network, closely followed by Germany. Our presence in Belgium, in Italy, Spain, and in the Netherlands provides diversified growth opportunities, reflecting the specific needs and care systems in each market. We continue to modernize and to actively manage our networks. Over the past 12 months, we brought 30 modern facilities into a service, and we added 1 new in Spain, while selling or closing 40 facilities. This active portfolio management is part of our medium-term plan and supports the improvement of our operating margin. I would like now to focus on a specific development closely linked to our HR strategy.
Sophie Boissard: As you see here on slide 7, Clariane University, so our corporate university, is joining forces with the Fondation Œuvre de la Croix Saint-Simon in France to take over seven nurses and social worker schools in the Paris region from 17 November 2026. This partnership brings together the foundation recognized expertise in initial training with the Clariane University experience in professional and educational training. This is for us a meaningful investment in the skills required across our activities, which support both the quality of care we deliver on a daily basis and our long-term development, since we are a people business in all possible dimensions. With this transaction, we will increase our global training offering by 30% in France as of 2027. I will now hand over to Grégory for a closer look at revenue performance and refinancing. Grégory, the floor is yours.
Grégory Lovichi: Thank you, Sophie. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. Turning now to revenue, the group delivered +4.7% organic growth over the first nine months, with all activities and geographies contributing. I will focus on the drivers behind the performance before moving to our refinancing program. On slide 9, and as Sophie indicated, consolidated revenue reached EUR 4 billion and EUR 51 million at the end of September, with +1.9% reported growth and +4.7% organic growth. The Q3 reinforced this momentum with a +4.9% organic growth. Let me focus on what is driving these figures. Looking first at our activities, long-term care, which accounts for 75% of group revenue, generated EUR 3 billion and EUR 53 million with +5.2% organic growth. Medicalized nursing homes grew by +5.3%, supported by solid pricing and higher occupancy.
Grégory Lovichi: Alternative living solutions delivered +4.9% organic growth, reflecting continued development in shared housing. Decline on a reported basis mainly reflects the disposal of Petits-fils, completed in France in July 2025. Specialty care, which accounts for 25% of group revenue, generated EUR 998 million and grew by +2.9% organically. The specialty and post-acute segment increased by +1.6%, supported by the regular increase of outpatient activity and improving case mix, particularly in France. Mental health grew by 6.3%, notably supported by the expansion of our services in Spain following the acquisition of Grupo 5. Turning to the geographical breakdown, Spain recorded organic growth of +14%, Germany +6.7%, and Belgium and the Netherlands +6.3%. All three benefited from improved occupancy and pricing. Italy grew by 3.3% organically, with occupancy remaining at a high level.
Grégory Lovichi: In France, revenue increased by 2.1% organically over the nine months, with growth accelerating to +2.8% in the Q3, the strongest quarter of the year. Long-term care benefited from the recovery in nursing home occupancy. In French specialty care, the situation is normalized following the SMR reform. Outpatient activity increased by 17.17%, and the case mix improvements continue to support the recovery. The difference between reported and organic growth across the group mainly reflects disposals completed in 2025. Let us now look at the revenue bridge. We start with reported revenue of EUR 3,976,000,000 for the first nine months of 2025. Disposals and other scope effects represented -EUR 121 million or -3%, establishing a pro forma comparison base of approximately EUR 3,855,000,000. Volumes contributed +EUR 62 million or +1.6%.
Grégory Lovichi: Long-term care accounted for EUR +54 million, including EUR 48 million in medicalized nursing homes, driven mainly by higher occupancy in Belgium and the Netherlands. Specialty care contributed EUR +8 million, including growth in outpatient activity in France and Spain. Pricing and case mix contributed the most to the top-line growth with EUR +118 million or +3.1%. Long-term care accounted for EUR +97 million, included EUR +83 million from medicalized nursing homes led by Germany, and EUR +14 million from alternative living solutions. Specialty care added EUR 21 million with the positive contributions in France, Italy, and Spain. Other effects contributed EUR +17 million, largely reflecting the comparison with the accrued receivable write-off relating to the SMR tariff reform recorded in France in 2025.
Grégory Lovichi: Taken together, this movement brings revenue to EUR 4,051 million, corresponding to +4.7% organic growth and +1.9% reported growth. Higher volumes and positive pricing and case mix effects more than offset the impact of the disposal plan. On slide 11, and turning to occupancy, the improvement in medicalized nursing homes continued throughout the first nine months of the year. As Sophie Boissard mentioned, average occupancy reached 92.2% over the nine months and 93% in the third quarter. Those were +1.4 percentage points above the comparable period last year. The longer-term trend is clear. Average occupancy has progressed from 88.5% in 2023 to 90.6% in 2024, 91% in 2025, and continues to improve with 92.2% year to date. That leaves further growth potential within our existing capacity. On slide 12, it shows that the improvement is broad-based.
Grégory Lovichi: Occupancy rates increased in every country, both over the nine-month period and in the third quarter. In France, the nine-month average rose by +1.3 percentage points to 89.4%, reaching 91.1% in the full third quarter, up 160 basis points compared to Q3 of last year. Germany reached 92.3% on an average over the nine months and 92.6% in the third quarter. In Belgium, occupancy averaged 94% over the nine months and 94.5% in the third quarter. In the Netherlands, we recorded the strongest year-on-year improvement, with nine months average of 83.3% versus 75.9% a year earlier. The third quarter rate reached 84.9%, an increase of 8.8 percentage points, reflecting in particular the ramp-up of capacity opened in 2024 and 2025. Italy maintained occupancy close to full capacity at 97.7% over nine months and 98.1% in the third quarter.
Grégory Lovichi: Spain also improved, reaching 93.8% over the nine months and 94.5% in the third quarter. These rates are measured against total authorized beds. The continued progress across all six countries supports our organic growth outlook, while the remaining headroom in selected markets provides further volume potential. I will now turn on the five refinancing transactions completed this year and their impact on our debt maturity profile. Starting point was a corporate rating, assigned in February, B+ by S&P and B2 by Moody's. Worth noticing that Moody's recently confirmed its B2 rating with an outlook stable. They supported the way to the rated high-yield market and broaden our financing options. On 10 April, we issued EUR 500 million of senior unsecured high-yield notes due in 2031 with a 6.875% coupon.
Grégory Lovichi: The proceeds, together with available cash, are intended to refinance the Euro PP and Schuldschein maturities from 2026 to 2028 at maturity or ahead of schedule. Capitalizing on the strong demand, the EUR 230 million tap of 28 April was fungible with the original note and increased the 2031 series to EUR 730 million. Issued above par, the new note offered a yield maturity of approximately 6.6%. The proceeds funded the redemption of the EUR 200 million pound sterling perpetual hybrid bonds, reducing annual cash costs by approximately EUR 14 million. The transaction also had a mechanical impact of approximately +0.4 times on the local leverage, reflecting the replacement of the sterling perpetual hybrid bonds with senior debt. On 23 June, we issued a 333 deeply subordinated perpetual hybrid notes carrying a 7.8975% coupon for the first 3 years and a 30-year call option after the 3 years.
Grégory Lovichi: The proceeds refinanced the EUR 332.5 million ODIRNANE ahead of its September coupon step-up, generating expected annual cash savings of approximately EUR 13 million. On 8 September, a further EUR 500 million issue of senior unsecured high-yield notes due in 2032 with a 6.875% coupon enabled us to refinance the EUR 350 million syndicated term loan and the EUR 150 million loan and terminate the related facilities. Finally, on 21 September, we secured a new EUR 700 million unsecured revolving credit facility maturing in 2031 with an option to increase it to EUR 900 million. Consistent with our approach to simplify the capital structure, it provides additional flexibility with a single Wholeco leverage covenant, no liquidity maintenance covenant, and a margin that varies with leverage. The EUR 700 million facility was then drawn at the end of September. The outcome is a simpler capital structure, with principal debt maturities extended to 2030, 2031, and 2032.
Grégory Lovichi: The two hybrid refinancings are expected to improve annual cash generation by approximately EUR 27 million. As a repeat issuer, we are also benefiting from broader investor access and more efficient execution. This final slide in my section illustrates the effect of the refinancing transaction on our corporate debt maturity profile. On the left is a reported structure as of 30 June. On the right, the pro forma profile following the September transaction and planned use of proceeds. The 2030, 2031, and 2032 notes replace shorter date maturities, including the OCEANE, Euro PP, and Schuldschein, and the two term loans. This substantially reduces the refinancing requirements over the next few years, with most of the corporate maturity set after 2030. Where proceeds are received in advance, cash remains on the balance sheet until the corresponding requirement is completed.
Grégory Lovichi: The main corporate maturities are now concentrated in 2030, 2031, and 2032, alongside residual instruments such as the social bond and our factoring facilities. As at 30 September, 92% of the total financial debt, including real estate debt, was at fixed rates or edged, limiting our sensitivity to interest rate movements. The new EUR 700 million revolving credit facility was also undrawn, providing substantial liquidity at room. This supports our policy of refinancing ahead of maturities while maintaining financial flexibility and disciplined cash management. I will now hand back to Sophie for the outlook.
Sophie Boissard: Thank you very much, Grégory. I would like to conclude by highlighting the priorities that underpin our medium-term plan and the financial discipline that will guide us over the coming years. As you see on slide number 17, our 2025-2028 medium-term plan Succeed Together builds on four distinctive strengths for the Clariane model. First strength, the quality of care we deliver. Second strength, our people. Third strength, the medical expertise. Fourth strength, our tech and digital capabilities. Quality at the core is our first strength. Our approach and priority is to provide a consistent high-quality experience for all residents, patients, and their families with care that responds to their needs and expectations. This is central to the trust placed in our facilities and to their long-term attractiveness. Our second strength at Clariane is definitely our people.
Sophie Boissard: As today's Clariane University announcement illustrates, investing in training helps us attract, develop, and retain skilled teams, and supports both continuity of care and operating performance. We aim to reinforce our positioning as one of the leading top employers in our industry. Our third strength is our medical expertise, which combines research, innovation, training, and rigorous ethical standards to deliver personalized and effective care. Our fourth strength is the strong digital and tech capabilities we have been building with our Clariane solution teams. These four strengths translate into tangible drivers of profitable growth, as reflected on the right-hand side of the slide. We will continue to leverage the capacity available in our existing networks with further potential to increase occupancy in medicalized nursing homes and to expand outpatient care. In parallel, we are pursuing selective CapEx sites development, and we are enriching permanently our offering in response to evolving care needs.
Sophie Boissard: Active pricing and data-driven case mix management supports revenue growth, while our Better Support Operational Excellence program improves efficiency throughout the group. Better Support efficiency program means also streamlining overheads, using digital and AI-enabled tools to improve efficiency and quality in care workflows, and leveraging our scale to keep service, maintenance, and energy costs under control and to select the best partners. Together, all these measures provide a clear operational basis for the revenue and EBITDA growth set out in our midterm plan. As you see here on slide number 18, we also put financial discipline and cash generation at the core of our plan. The refinancing program that Grégory has just outlined gives us greater visibility and flexibility. Our policy is and will remain focused on cash generation, disciplined capital allocation, and the progressive reduction of the leverage.
Sophie Boissard: The first driver of deleveraging is the continued increase in EBITDA, supported by careful management of working capital. The second driver is our investment discipline. We will maintain our annual investment envelope at around EUR 300 million, broadly divided equally between operating and development CapEx. Around EUR 150 million are allocated to operating CapEx to support the resilience and the compliance of our facilities, including climate adaptation and IT. A further EUR 150 million CapEx is directed towards development projects with relatively short payback periods, including selective refurbishments, digital initiatives, and local partnerships, particularly in the Netherlands and in Spain. We will continue to manage debt proactively, anticipating refinancing 12 to 18 months ahead of maturity and optimizing financing costs. Any bolt-on acquisition will remain subject to our leverage targets and strict strategic and risk-return criteria. Let me conclude by reiterating our objectives across the two horizon of our plan.
Sophie Boissard: For 2023 to 2026, we continue to target average annual organic revenue growth of around +5% on a pro forma basis. We also confirm a +100 to 150 basis point improvement in the pre-IFRS 16 EBITDA margin pro forma of disposals and excluding real estate development, to be compared with its 2023 level of 10.5%. By the end of 2026, we are targeting net financial debt pre-IFRS 16 of approximately EUR 3 billion on a comparable balance sheet basis and a whole group leverage below 5.5 times. For the 2025-2028 period, we confirm average annual pro forma revenue growth of around +4%, together with average annual growth of between +7% and +9% in pre-IFRS 16 EBITDA, and between +11% and +14% in EBITDA OpCo, both on a pro forma basis.
Sophie Boissard: We are targeting a whole group leverage of around five times by the end of 2028. As a reminder, this whole group leverage objective reflect the current definition and balance sheet structure, including the mechanical adjustment resulting from the additional EUR 230 million of senior notes issued in April to refinance the sterling perpetual hybrid bonds. We confirm all financial and non-financial objectives. Our nine months' momentum and completed refinancing program provide a solid basis for delivery. We remain more than ever focused on delivering outstanding quality of care thanks to our people, to our operating execution, and to our cash generation. Thank you very much for your attention. Grégory and I are now available to answer your questions.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question by phone, please dial pound key five on your telephone keypad to enter the queue. If you are attending the conference on the web, you can also ask question using the chat box at the bottom of the page.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Thank you, operator. We have a few questions on the chat. The first one is regarding the French budget, the PLFSS discussion. What is your view on the process and the proposed measures?
Sophie Boissard: Thank you very much, Stéphane. We have a pretty positive view on the measures that are currently into the draft bill when it comes to the funding of elderly care, long-term care, and post-acute care. Currently, the draft bill comes with an increase of the funding of 3% to 2.5% of funding. It is definitely a pretty strong basis for building our 2027 budget.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Thank you, Sophie. Next question is regarding inflation, especially wages. What do you expect for 2027?
Sophie Boissard: Actually, our view on the wage inflation is a pretty differentiated one when it comes to geographies. Half of our portfolio is located in countries where actually the wage inflation is reflected in the care rates. This is mainly true for Germany, for the Netherlands, and for Belgium. In France, Italy, and Spain, there is no such framework. But if I look what we have delivered over the last years, we were able to pass a higher price and rates increase versus the overall wage increase. We expect to be able to progress the same way in 2027. So positive price over cost, and especially over staff cost effect.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Thank you, Sophie. Next question is, are higher long-term yields putting upward pressure on your property CapEx rates, particularly in France, and what does that imply for your real estate portfolio valuation?
Sophie Boissard: Just as a reminder, we own 23% of our operated portfolio, and 40% of those 23% are located in France. I think that reflects pretty precisely the split of our activities across Europe. We do not expect to see a significant impact of the current evolution of interest rates in the overall variation of our assets.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Thank you, Sophie. We have one question regarding the contribution of pricing and volume. What do you expect in 2027? The contribution between price and volume in your gross expectations.
Sophie Boissard: Yeah. Basically, we are expecting a kind of 3-1-1 effect, 3% of pricing and rate adjustment, 1% of volume overall, and probably there will be an additional 1% of external growth coming from the bolt-on and CapEx site development, I attribute to.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Thank you, Sophie. The next question is more specifically on Germany. Do you consider the Q3 German performance to be slightly lower than expected?
Sophie Boissard: I think that the Q3 quarter reflects the momentum in Germany. We have done a major catch-up in the repricing, which has been supporting significantly the revenue evolution in Germany over the last 2 years. As expected, this effect is progressively slowing down and will be partially offset by a higher volume effect. I see directionally growth in Germany in kind of converging to a low 5% based on that effect.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Thank you, Sophie. The next question regarding occupancy rates following the Q3 performance in France. How much do you think the improvement reflects temporary short-stay stays, and how much represents a sustainable increase in the underlying run rates?
Sophie Boissard: We see month after month improvement in the occupancy volume in France year on year. Definitely, there is a summer peak that has been there already for several years. I think you can count on a kind of +1%, +1.5% increase year on year that is captured very clearly. This is actually a pretty sound growth in the sense that we are really paying a lot of attention in maintaining the right pricing and not kind of receding on pricing to catch additional volumes. This is why, again, this growth in France is a sustainable and sound growth.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Thank you, Sophie. I think next question will be live, so please, operator.
Operator: The next question comes from David Cerdan from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
David Cerdan: Yeah, good afternoon. I have a rapid question regarding the IT CapEx. Do you hear me? Is it okay?
Sophie Boissard: Yes, absolutely.
David Cerdan: Hello.
Sophie Boissard: Good afternoon.
David Cerdan: Okay. Sorry, Sophie.
Sophie Boissard: Hello.
David Cerdan: Just a question regarding the IT CapEx. Given the recurring nature of this kind of spending, should it be treated as an OpEx rather than a CapEx? How much of the 150 relate to IT development?
Grégory Lovichi: Yeah. Thanks, David, for the question. It is true that when we look the EUR 150 million CapEx to develop, part of this CapEx to develop and the way we look at it, part of it is to have new capacity. Other part of it is to have improvement of the margin. When we say improvement of the margin or percentage margin, we have, and we did not disclose it, but one third of the investment on this development envelope could be linked to this transformation or let us say IT CapEx. When you improve the margin, it is because you have assets capitalized in front of it, because this is a capital you allocate to improve the margin. From an accounting and an IFRS perspective, that is clearly an asset for the company that help us to improve the margin. That is why part of the question, yes, that is a CapEx.
Grégory Lovichi: The second part of your question is, it is one third of the development CapEx so far that could be allocated to the improvement in margin that is driven by digital transformation.
Sophie Boissard: And of course, the recurring expenditures related to software and agencies related to software are captured in the EBITDA, of course.
Grégory Lovichi: Of course. The maintenance fees are what you have on the software is obviously, as mentioned by Sophie, in the EBITDA.
David Cerdan: Can you give us some examples of what you want to do with this envelope?
Grégory Lovichi: Yeah. When you look on the digital transformation, there is, for example, software we are using in the site. We call it the Koala software. That make the life of the care operators easier, and it help us to collaborate. So for example, it's own client tool develop, that improves the performance and release some time in the site from the colleagues. This is one of the example when we say digital transformation and the way we invest on our CapEx.
Sophie Boissard: Actually, another example is the Connected NG project that we have launched in Germany. It is to replace the current system by an integrated system, ERP system, in all our nursing homes.
Sophie Boissard: It will save up to 2 hours to the nurses within the facility, and it will unlock additional capacities that we cannot completely fill in currently, because we are missing the right nursing staff ratio. That is one of the critical dimension in Germany. Definitely, Connected NG project is one of the investment that is planned, has started already, 2027, and to come fully live in 2028. It is already legislation in Germany that such digital projects can be partially subsidized and funded by the care agency. That is another project. We have currently five projects ongoing, that are definitely contributing to the growth, both in revenue but also in our operating result.
David Cerdan: I have a last question, if I may. It is regarding your property partnership agreements. Do you see any risk regarding the renegotiation of the terms of these agreements?
Sophie Boissard: Actually, these are long-term partnerships that have been signed for seven to eight years. Also, we have already pre-planned the next round. The next gates for these partnerships will be beyond 2030, 2031.
David Cerdan: Okay. Sorry, because I had in mind that there was some exit option for the partners. Is it not the case, or is it the case for them?
Sophie Boissard: No, it is a lock-up.
David Cerdan: It is a lock-up.
Sophie Boissard: It is from the Vital. For some of them it is seven years, for others it is eight years. Then there is a window with a liquidity option, but there is absolutely no obligation to exit. Again, that is the normal life of such partnerships.
David Cerdan: Okay. Thank you very much.
Sophie Boissard: You are welcome, David.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Next question probably for you, Grégory, regarding the capital structure. Can the EUR 700 million FCF be used to redeem debt, including hybrid bonds?
Grégory Lovichi: Yes. As you mentioned, the revolving credit line, which was signed in September for an amount of EUR 700 million, is fully undrawn as of end of September. When you look at it and look at this credit facility, we can use it as a company to finance Clariane general purposes, including CapEx, refinancing of existing financial indebtedness, excluding the recent hybrid bond we have concluded last year.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Thank you, Grégory. Next question regarding capital structure. Regarding your new perpetual bond, is the plan gradually to refinance this into senior and secure level and further simplify your capital structure?
Grégory Lovichi: We have access this year several times to the high-yield bond market. This bond is, as mentioned, perpetual. We know that we may have an option from 2029 to rethink about how to refinance this bond. Obviously, we will look to all the opportunities we have in front of us like we did this year, and to find the best refinancing option for such kind of an instrument in the 12 months before, let's say, the first option to refinance it, like we do in our financial policy to always get proactive when it came to our financing.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Thank you, Grégory. I think we have a live question.
Operator: The next question comes from Constantine Wolf from Pictet Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Maybe the next question, please.
Operator: The next question comes from Milos Milovanovic from Elmwood Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Milos Milovanovic: Hi. Can you hear me okay?
Sophie Boissard: Yes, absolutely. Hi.
Milos Milovanovic: Perfect. Thank you. I have a couple of questions, if I may. I will go one by one. Firstly, in Germany, I think the Federal Health Minister there recently spoke about a need to generate 10% savings in long-term care. How do you think about this? Does it affect your midterm outlook? Is there a risk of funding cuts to the operators of nursing homes?
Sophie Boissard: No. There will be some change in the regulation, but we do not anticipate cuts regarding the funding of the operator. As said before, they are in parallel fostering the digital development in the elderly care. Globally, I expect there are still large needs in Germany, and there is such a scarcity of available beds and teams that I expect more opportunities there for sure.
Milos Milovanovic: Do you think that care rate increases could slow down, again, because I guess they have to find savings somewhere.
Sophie Boissard: Well, it will be more on the home care part, where actually the low care rates are currently accommodated. For us, it is a negligible part. We are definitely focusing our nursing home in the higher care rate residents already.
Milos Milovanovic: Thank you. Thank you very much. That is clear. My second question is on the
Sophie Boissard: I am sorry. That is the opposite. It is the way it is done. Anyway, we are focusing on the high-intensity care, and what they intend to reduce is the funding for the people with low intensity of care, mainly at home. That was what I meant.
Milos Milovanovic: Thank you. That is clear. My second question was on the capital structure. Obviously, the next maturity is the 2028 bond, which does appear to have a relatively low coupon. I was just curious on your thoughts about the timeline of debt refinancing. Do you intend to keep that in place for as long as possible?
Grégory Lovichi: Yeah. Fair question. The maturity for this 2028 is the last quarter of 2028, in October 2028, the maturity. Part of the finance policy, we say that we always want to anticipate at least 12 months in advance, meaning that we have plenty of time. We have time in front of us to seize the best opportunity when to replace and to refinance this instrument from now like we did this year. Always when we look at it, and when you need to look at it and think about the capital structure, it is all about the simplification, extension of the maturity, and obviously, we will look to have, as always, the best financing condition as possible.
Sophie Boissard: And just as an add-on, it gives us plenty of time also to discuss to what extent we have to refinance this maturity. Because as you see, we benefit from a large liquidity status currently.
Milos Milovanovic: Thank you.
Sophie Boissard: We will be opportunistic.
Milos Milovanovic: Thank you. Just finally, if I may, you mentioned obviously geographies that have automatic wage reimbursement, Germany, Belgium, Netherlands. How are wages negotiated in those geographies? Are they done centrally, so through collective bargaining agreements or on a site-by-site basis? Is there a risk of a time lag between pay increases taking effect and reimbursement catching up?
Sophie Boissard: That is a very good question. Of course, actually there are different regulations. On the Netherlands, this is a countrywide indexation that is reflected in the care rates. That is basically how it works. In Germany, there is a kind of minimum wage in place for care workers that we have to stick to. We can of course do more and then negotiate. That is done with our unions, can be done locally or at corporate level. We are doing this locally, and then we negotiate with our care agencies. We have 80 different care agencies, so funding bodies in Germany. This is taken into consideration in the evolution of the rates. The question of time lag is a relevant question. We have faced a pretty severe time lag effect when we exited the COVID.
Sophie Boissard: Now the regulation in all countries that have this regulation in place, meaning so the Netherlands, Germany or Belgium, is a forward-looking regulation, meaning that we are negotiating based on the evolution, on the foreseen evolution or the negotiated evolution of the wages. The Netherlands centrally reflected forward-looking in the rates. In Germany, there is a nationwide minimum wage, local negotiation that are forward-looking reflected in the rates negotiated with the care agencies. The Belgian system is very much the Dutch system alike, by region.
Milos Milovanovic: Got it. Super helpful. Thank you very much. That is all I had. Thank you.
Sophie Boissard: Thank you.
Stéphane Bisseuil: Thank you, Sophie. There is no additional question, so if you have any final remarks.
Sophie Boissard: Thank you very much for the question and your attention. What I can say is that this Q3 momentum reflect what we are actually, an essential service provider that is kind of very much macroeconomic cycle adverse. Because again, the very strong underlying demand for quality care is there for sure, and we are best positioned to address and meet this demand. I am only looking forward with great confidence and a lot also of gratefulness towards our very strong and dedicated teams. Thank you very much for your attention, and speak to you soon.
Operator: The host has ended this call. Goodbye
