Philippe Salle: Thank you, operator, and good morning, everybody. Let's go directly to the presentation. I will start with the first two sections, and then I will hand over to Jacques-François. We start on page six. The key message for this quarter. First, continued sequential performance improvement. I will come back, of course, on the revenue and the fact that, as I said the last quarter, we are sequentially stable and, of course, easing the comps versus 2025. We confirm also the full-year targets. Second, Genesis. We said already in Q1 that Genesis was in fact not over, but it was done in terms of the EUR 650 million savings that we have sketched during the CMD last year. We continue. Genesis will be closed, in fact, by the end of the year. We will reach far above the target of six.
Philippe Salle: Commercial activity, always lower in Q3, and I will come back on this. We continue, of course, accelerating in our strategic pillars, and remember that we have three of them. When I go on the key numbers on page seven, in terms of revenue, EUR 1.642 billion at current perimeter, so it is a -2.4%. We are close, let's say, to a breakeven, and we are very happy, I would say, on this result. Order entry is EUR 1 billion, 62%. Order entry is always lower, in fact, in Q3, just because it is the summer season. Remember also that we have two events, let's say, for this order entry. The first one is that it is linked to the renewal of large contracts. 50% of our revenues is managed services. In fact, usually managed services, it is five to seven-year contracts, usually large ones.
Philippe Salle: When we have large contracts like CNA, for example, it is a booking roughly of EUR 300, 400 million. Of course it push us very hard, I would say, on the book to bill on the order entry. In Q3, in fact, we didn't have any renewals, and that is why that, in fact, let's say the order entry was more on not managed services than managed services. I would say the performance is quite okay because it means that 62%, we are above the 50 of, let's say, managed services. Remember also that there are some contracts where we don't book any order entry, like for example, EDF, or like for example, the contract we have won in the UK with the Metropolitan Police.
Philippe Salle: Because it is what we call framework agreement, which means that we have the licenses, let us say, to play, and of course we are going to play. Probably, for example, in the UK we estimate it is EUR 40 million to EUR 50 million per year, in fact starting already this year and next year. We do not put any order entry for this contract. That is why I would say, of course, it is lower, let us say, the book to bill. Net change in cash, this one also is a very good news. EUR 44 million, it is the first time since Genesis, and in fact, it is the first time when you look back at the company in 2022, 2021. We have EUR 50 million of cost structuring.
Philippe Salle: Remember we put EUR 120 million of cost structuring in H1, so we get EUR 170 million. We estimate that the total for this year will be close to EUR 200 million.
Philippe Salle: It means roughly EUR 30 million more to come in Q4. Then the liquidity, EUR 966 million. Remember that in the liquidity, we do not put the trade receivables escrow. It means, in fact, that the cash is roughly above EUR 1.2 billion, and we are quite confident that we will finish between EUR 1.3 billion and EUR 1.4 billion at the end of the year. If we go on page eight, you can see that roughly we have stabilized, and I said that, in fact, already since the Q1, the revenues. In fact, we do not lose any large contracts in the course of 2026. Unfortunately, we lost some of them, in fact, in the US in 2025. That is why the comps, of course, is a little bit tough in some countries like in the US. Of course it is easing.
Philippe Salle: In fact, it is going to ease even more, in fact, in Q4 because, in fact, in the US, we will be probably growing, in the course of Q4. As you can see, -11% on the Q1, roughly -6% in the second quarter. We are now at -2%. We estimate that in Q4 we will be between a 0% and -2%. If we go on Genesis on the next page, so page nine. As I say, we are above the target. We will finish probably close to EUR 800 million by the end of the year. In fact, I have accelerated Genesis just because, of course, the top line was not there in the course of 2026. As you can see, we have done several initiatives in terms of cost offering and simplifications that, of course, we will continue.
Philippe Salle: Just one probably comment, the billability rate, remember that the goal was roughly at 85%. We are now close to 84%. We will touch probably the 85% in the first half year of 2027 because we are finishing, let us say, the restructuring next year in Northern Europe and France. If we go on page 10, this is a workforce evolution. We are roughly now flat, let us say quarter on quarter. There were not, I would say, big change going forward. You can see also that the attrition now is around 10%, probably too low for a company like us. But at least, I would say it is good for us, of course, to keep our, let us say, staff in this moment where we do a lot of change in the company.
Philippe Salle: Now if I go on the page 11 and the book to bill, as I say, it is 62%.
Philippe Salle: As I say, also remember it is low but there is no, let us say, renewals in terms of managed services. So it is normal, I would say, that we have this, let us say, a lower book to bill. We estimate that the book to bill in Q4 will be above 100%. It is always, let us say, higher in the last quarter of this year. The qualified pipeline also is very strong and continues to be stronger, roughly at EUR 1.7 billion, I would say increase in the course of H1. Also the renewal rate also has increased around 93%. After that you can see some major wins. I talk about EDF, so EDF in the book to bill is zero. Metropolitan Police also is zero. It is very close to zero. Although some framework agreements we had with HMRC, that is also big.
Philippe Salle: Again, this one on the book to bill is zero.
Philippe Salle: You can see other contract wins that we have, for example in Barcelona with the European Space Agency. For the strategic pillars, remember that it is agentic, digital sovereignty, and cybersecurity. So in agentic AI, in fact, we are going to go over agentic. We are going to have a big release in terms of our AI, let us say, development. It will be Monday next week. It is a suite, in fact, that we are going to launch. It is called Atos Genesis Intelligence, and you will have, of course, more details in the course of next week. But including the AGI, I would say there is a platform called Atos Codex that is very powerful and that we have started to implement in France and in the UK.
Philippe Salle: Digital sovereignty, just for example, we have also a partner more, I would say, with SAP to be a cloud partner.
Philippe Salle: In cybersecurity, we have launched, let us say, different offers. Just for information on IAM, which is identity and access management, Eviden has a solution, and we are the only European, I would say, player that has a solution that is really sovereign and secured, that we can push against most of the US, let us say, most of the competition, which is, in fact, in the US. If you look at on page 13, some contracts that we have won and also that we are delivering right now. I am not going to, let us say, review all of them, but you have some, let us say, examples in Germany, in China, in Europe, and of course, in France with Sida. Now, Atos, so on page 14, on internal adoption of agentic AI.
Philippe Salle: We are also, of course, pushing, as you can imagine, agentic AI very strongly also in the company.
Philippe Salle: I will come back, in fact, at the end of February, we have our full year results to show you exactly what we do. In fact, agentic AI, for us, it is two things. It is agentify, let us say, our back office, so agentic on our own back office, and agentify also our own delivery. This, of course, I will explain more what we are doing, I would say, next year in February with the full year results. In terms of cyber, you can see on page 15, I put some, let us say, what we are doing in terms of identity, attack, et cetera. We are also working on the quantum, I would say, response we are going to have in the future. But there is a lot of things that is done right now.
Philippe Salle: Remember, it is a mix between Eviden, software of course, and hardware, and of course, Atos services.
Philippe Salle: We estimate that overall, the cyber revenues is close probably to EUR 1 billion, so it is 15% of our revenues for the company. Let us go now on the operational performance country by country. First on page 17, you can see the evolution of the revenues. We start with Q3 last year that we have published. Then you have the divestiture that we have done. Remember that it was Bull and also Tam. And a little bit of Northern Europe. You have the foreign exchange. Then you have, I would say, the Q3 2025 at current parameter and exchange, which is 1,683. Then, as I say, now we are at 1,642, so we are very close, let us say, to last year. We are just missing EUR 40 million, which is roughly a 2.4% of organic decrease. Now let us look at the performance country by country.
Philippe Salle: You have here, let us say, the view by geo. Remember that with Atos, we have six geos, and also the view of Eviden. As you can see, we are now growing, in fact, in international market. It is the first time. We continue the growth with UK, and we are also continuing also the growth with Eviden. France is close to the breakeven, probably in Q4. Then you have Germany, North America, and BNL. Let us look at country by country. Germany on page 19. So -6%. We still have some remnants of clients, in fact, that we have lost in 2024 and in 2025. Also some clients, like for example, Deutsche Bank, that has decided, I would say, to internalize some of the managed services that they had with Atos. So it is not a loss versus the competition.
Philippe Salle: It is just, I would say, some clients who have decided to do internally what they used to do, I would say, externally. So -6%, and I would say we are quite stable in terms of revenue when you look at quarter by quarter. When you look at the US on page 20, I think the good news is that we are also stable. We do roughly $96 million per month, between 95 and 96. We estimate that we will continue to do roughly this in the Q4, probably above. Good news is that last year, we were exactly at $96 million per month in Q4. So I would say that in Q4 for the US, we will probably be at zero or restart growing as soon as next quarter. In fact, we lost a big contract in 2025.
Philippe Salle: Remember that we have decided, I would say, not to renew this contract because of the margin. Of course, the comparison is still tough. Of course, it will ease in Q4. Then we can probably, I would say then, restart growing in the course of the year of 2027 for the whole year. In France, on page 21, as I say, we are close to breakeven. We have signed a lot of contracts also in France. We see that the commercial development is in good shape. EDF is a very important contract that we have signed. It does not, let us say, give any revenues, in fact, of course, this year and next year, but we estimate that it will start to give some revenues in the course of 2028. Now UK and Ireland on page 22.
Philippe Salle: In fact, the organic growth is a little bit, let's say, we don't grow at 30% in this country. We are roughly at EUR 300 million plus per quarter. Last year, in fact, it was a very low quarter, and that's why the comparison, I think, for me, is a little bit fake. In fact, when you look at Q4, I've done roughly EUR 306, I think, last year. We will be probably around this EUR 300 million. So in fact, we will be close to zero. It's just for me an effect between Q3 and Q4 and the fact that the base, in fact, was very low in 2025. But sequentially, we are around EUR 300 million plus. It depends on the quarter. Of course, all the contracts that we have signed will yield, in fact, more revenue in the course of next year.
Philippe Salle: In terms of international market, remember also that we lose also a big client in the banking sector, and we lose it, in fact, not because of Atos, but because also like in Germany, they have decided to put the managed services internally. So the comparison was tough, in fact, in 2025, and it was still also for the first two quarters of 2026. It's not the case anymore, so I think it's great. Now we are seeing some growth in different areas. In fact, we are seeing in Spain and also in Eastern Europe and of course, in Middle East and Asia. Last, Benelux, Northern Europe. This one is a little bit more tricky because also we have exited some contracts last year. It is weaker for me Q3, and I definitely think that it will be much better in the course of Q4.
Philippe Salle: So probably the comparison is a little bit tough for Q3, but I definitely think that we will do better in the coming quarters. Eviden. So Eviden, in fact, when you look at the numbers, it seems that it is decreasing, but in fact, with the split of Bull, the comparison, in fact, is not very fair. The underlying organic growth is 5%. So this is a SBU that is growing at five now, and I definitely think that double digit should be the growth going forward. Remember that in Eviden also, Middle East has a big impact on us, especially on Vision AI, and it save all dozens of millions for us. So we hope, I would say, to recover on this part.
Philippe Salle: I don't know if it will be in 2026 or 2027, but we know that there is a lot of potential in this region for our Vision AI business. We will see if we can sign some contracts. There is a big one, in fact, that is still waiting, let's say, a signature from one client. We'll see if it's in Q4 this year or it will be in the course of 2027. But Eviden, of course, as you know, with defense, with cyber, there is a lot of, let's say, wind favorable for us, and I think that we will in fact continue to accelerate in the coming years. With this, I hand over to Jacques-François for the financial results.
Jacques François: Thank you, Philippe, and good morning, everyone. As a reminder, the publication of our quarterly liquidity position is part of the regular reporting requirements, which have been defined in the December 2024 credit documentation. All the certificates are available on our website. The key message for this quarter is that we have reached an important milestone with positive cash generation for the first time since the launch of Genesis. The net change in cash, as you can see in the slide, was positive and estimated at approximately EUR +44 million in the quarter, including a significant restructuring cash impact of around EUR 50 million. This reflects the progress made on our operational performance and cash discipline and reinforces our confidence that we are all well on track to achieve our full year 2026 guidance. This figure excludes several other items that ultimately impact the liquidity position.
Jacques François: The exchange rate fluctuation, which amounted to approximately EUR -6 million, M&A for EUR -5 million, change in unsolicited payments received in advance of the invoice payment due date during the quarter for EUR -10 million, cash movements relating to other financial assets and liabilities for EUR -9 million, net fees associated with the successful refinancing of the first lien tranche of the December 2024 debt for EUR -9 million, and lastly, the factoring. The factoring program has improved liquidity by EUR 14 million during the quarter. Remember that this program provides a secure and recurring source of funding at an all-in attractive cost of 4.25% plus EURIBOR 3 months. It is committed for a duration of 3 years on a non-recourse basis, and it is expected to continue to ramp up in Q4 and beyond.
Jacques François: Note that due to the pace of the program ramp-up, we did not buy back debt on the market in Q3, and we started to buy some more in the early days of Q4 before our close period started. Taking all these elements together, our liquidity position increased by EUR 18 million in the quarter compared to our post-debt repayment position to an estimated EUR 966 million as of 30 September. This level remains well above the EUR 650 million minimum liquidity requirement under our December 2024 credit documentation. Overall, we turned cash positive in the quarter while continuing to fund the restructuring for the group. We strengthened our liquidity position, and we are starting to benefit from the progressive deployment of our trade receivable factoring program. That concludes my intervention. I hand over back to Philippe.
Philippe Salle: Thank you. Remember Q3, Q1, of course, we don't provide a lot of figures, so that's why it's very simple. I will finish this presentation on page 29 on the financial ambition of 2026. In fact, it's the same as the last quarter, and in fact, the same as Q1 also. We still see an organic growth. It's not really a growth, it's a decrease at -5%, and it's around -5%. As you can see with Q3 at -2%, we are, I would say, in a good way, I would say, to achieve, of course, this result. Operating margin around 7%, so we don't change this. And a positive net change in cash. In fact, the cash flow in H1 was EUR -120 million.
Philippe Salle: We have done roughly EUR 44 million in Q3, so it means we will do EUR 76 million or above in Q4. Remember that right now the position of cash is EUR 1.2 billion plus the free cash flow of EUR 76 million. It is EUR 1.3 billion, and probably we have a client in advance payment that we receive also in Q4. It is still low right now at EUR 100 million. It was roughly EUR 270 million at the end of 2025. So it is possible that we finish probably between EUR 1.3 billion and EUR 1.4 billion, probably touching the EUR 1.4 billion with, I would say, client in advance. In fact, that is exactly what we have said during, I would say, the refinancing in May.
Philippe Salle: We have been cautious, of course, the beginning of July, but we will have, I would say, a very decent position of cash at the end of the year.
Philippe Salle: With this, I hand over to you, operator, and we can take, of course, questions, going forward.
Operator: Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star one one on your telephone and wait for your name to be announced. To withdraw your question, please press star one and one again. We will now take our first question from the line of Frederic Boulan from Bank of America. Please go ahead.
Frederic Boulan: Thank you. Good morning, Philippe and Jacques-François. Two questions please, maybe one for Philippe, and one for Jacques-François. Firstly, Philippe, if you can spend a bit more time on the overall demand and competitive environments. I mean, we are seeing steady revenue improvements. Book to bill was low, but you explained, not reflecting a number of public contracts. So it would be good to understand a bit more demand, competition, pricing. Secondly, Jacques-François, around the refinancing side of things. If you can explain a little bit, where you see the main opportunities, the decision framework on opportunities considering the current credit conditions. Thank you.
Philippe Salle: Yeah. Thank you, Frederic. So on the first one, I think that the market is, I would say, still healthy. The position of Atos, let's say, the decrease of the turnover revenues, it is because of Atos. For me, it is not because of the market. I would say, I just want to remind that, of course, the events of 2024 is still alive, unfortunately, for some of our clients. It is easing, and as I say, I think in an interview that this year is better than last year, but worth is going to be less better, of course, than next year. I definitely think, of course, that the confidence, the trust the clients are showing now to us is building up, and I am very happy.
Philippe Salle: Remember also that we lost a lot of contracts in the US that I definitely think we can probably win back probably in 2028, 2029, because some of the contracts is four or five years. It depends on the length of the contract. But we see now the clients calling back and having, let's say, confidence and understanding, I would say that Atos is back. The fact that we are also a cash flow positive, I think it is a very strong signal for our clients also. I am very happy also to, and of course, I will be vocal on this one with our key clients. So we say the environment is okay. Of course, there is a two way of environment, and I am sure that my competition is doing, probably telling the same thing, the US and Europe.
Philippe Salle: US, where we see more and more, let's say, AI development.
Philippe Salle: We are going to show at the end of February, a launch probably of different initiatives in AI in the US. I cannot tell you that much right now, but be patient. It will come. Where we see, of course, that the impact, let's say, of agentic is coming, let's say, more live in our bidding. If you, in fact, if you bid without, let's say, an agentic component, you are out of the market today. The difficulties for some of the contracts we see is that some of my competition are putting crazy numbers in year 3, 4 or 5 of the contracts because it is a bet right now. I definitely think that nobody has a clear picture of the impact of, let's say, agentic on our delivery.
Philippe Salle: We will probably have a better view in the coming months because, of course, we do a lot of things in January.
Philippe Salle: But let's say the competition is quite, let's say, unrealistic sometimes on the gains that we can do. It could be, for me, some bad contracts, and that is why for some of the accounts, I do not want to take this bet. Atos has not, let's say, the financial strength to, of course, and win some contracts because of that. But in fact, in some contracts, like for example in CNA, we are able, let's say, to show initiatives, of course, of AI and, of course. The fact that we can share after that or give, I would say, part of it or most part of it, let's say, to the customers. So let's say in the US, agentic is more and more live, and we need to, of course, to put this component in our bidding process. In Europe, it is less the case for the moment.
Philippe Salle: I definitely think that we are lagging versus the US. For me, as I say, agentic is more a marathon. It is probably a 3 to 5 year, probably more, 3 to 7 years, I do not know, before it comes live. Remember also that in Europe, we have also social laws that are a little more rigid. So of course, when you put agentification in your process, and you cannot get rid of some of your staff, it is more difficult, of course, to see some examples. But we see some appetite. So in fact, we have discussions and with what we are going to launch on Monday, we have already some initiatives in the UK and in France where, I think we have the suite we are going to launch on Monday, and you will see that is unique in Europe.
Philippe Salle: We have also in this suite what we call a platform Atos Codex. The name, in fact, we had for several years and before the Codex of one of the LLMs in the US. And with this platform, in fact, we can do a lot of things for the clients, and we are starting, in fact, to see some results for large clients that we are pushing right now. So overall, I would say the market is there. Of course, there is a lot of, let us say, economic uncertainties in the world, in Europe, and of course in France now, as you can imagine. But I would say for the IT market, we do not see an IT market that is down.
Jacques François: I think that it is still an healthy market, and we are still, I would say, a small player in this market with a lot of opportunities in front of us. Taking over the second question, Fred, regarding the refinancing opportunities, decision framework, and our feeling on the market conditions. So I would like to say, our ambition and our view of the direction of travel regarding capital structure is totally unchanged. Whilst we have ample cash and ample time, because the first maturity is in December 2030. This is true. This is important for us to refi when there will be a good market condition, a good market window.
Jacques François: I think you will not learn anything from my statement, which is that the market is currently not open, far from it, and certainly not for the high-yield bonds, which is most likely an important tool for us in the future.
Jacques François: So maybe to add to that, meaning that, despite the company working on that to be ready, we do not think that there is any window happening in the very near future. However, ambition remains in the next 12 to 18 months to go and refi on the market at reasonable conditions. Remember that the first lien refinancing in May was extremely successful. That has allowed us to reduce the overall cost of interest to reduce by 200-plus basis points from an average of roughly 10% to an average of roughly 8%. We have taken out the tranche, which is the most expensive. That was 13%, 9 plus 4. Now we remain with two tranches which are cheaper. That is 5 plus 4, makes 9% for the first and a half, and 1 plus 4 for the second lien. So there is no urgency.
Jacques François: Where there is maybe a sense, it is not urgency, but let us say it is an important priority for me, is to ramp up and to start really a serious ramp up of the factoring. I am aware the negotiations, the implementation, the signature of the contracts, to start the ramp up has been so far slow, but I am confident that in the near month, this will ramp up much faster. That is to answer your question, Fred.
Frederic Boulan: Thank you very much.
Philippe Salle: Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. We will now take the next question from the line of Sam Morton from Invesco. Please go ahead.
Sam Morton: Hi. Two questions please for Jean-François. One of them is on the factoring program. Can you talk about any teething problems that you experienced in Q3 and whether they are likely to continue in Q4? Because I do think that EUR 14 million was quite a way below what we could have expected after the strong start that you made in June. Secondly, I look at a EUR 44 million improvement in net cash in Q3, and the guide is for a further increase in Q4, yet management decided to do no bond repurchases in Q3, and only EUR 7 million so far in Q4. I am just trying to understand what that tells us about what management thinks the debt reduction. Where does debt reduction sit within management's priorities? Thank you.
Jacques François: Thank you, Sam. You allow me to clarify and give more color on this program, which indeed I just mentioned is an important priority. You are correct, you are reading between the lines. In Q3, we experienced some difficulties with the ramp-up of the factoring program. I cannot dwell too much into the details, but I can tell you that these problems are away and that I do not expect the similar problems in Q4 at all. Quite on the contrary, we estimate the ramp-up with further geographies and the geography already signed will happen in the coming weeks. That is the first point regarding the slow ramp-up in Q3. The second point is regarding the bond buyback.
Jacques François: I think we have clearly signaled that is our intention to buy more bonds on the open market, and I repeat that today again, that is still our intention. Whilst we have signaled that, we have also made it very clear that there is a relationship with the factoring ramp-up and our source of liquidity and our source of cash to proceed with this bond buyback. Very logically, if the ramp-up of factoring has been very slow, this is the single reason for which we have bought little bonds on the open market. However, of course, as soon as I have more cash from this factoring program, we will buy more bonds. As to Q4, why the amount is-
Sam Morton: Francois?
Jacques François: Yes.
Sam Morton: Sorry to cut back. If you are so confident that the teething problems on the factoring program are temporary, I do not understand why you would not be more active in the secondary market.
Jacques François: So let me clarify a couple of things. One is that we are subject to close period, whether this is for the company has some limitations. So for example, our close period for Q3 has started on 5 or 7 October. So we have been able to buy a little bit, then when we had some little bit of ramp-up of the factoring program. So meaning that in the last 3 weeks, we have not been allowed, let's say, to buy bonds on the open market simply because that is regulation. Just before we publish the results, we cannot operate on the open market. Now, I am confident. I said exactly the same thing at the Q2 earnings call, which is that whilst I am confident, and you have heard Philippe and myself, we repeat our guidance for the full year net change in cash.
Jacques François: Even if you are confident, in terms of, how can I say, spending the money and having the money leave the house, well, I need first to have it before I do that. I think this is a good common sense, prudent way of behaving. So bear with us a little bit. The bond buyback will start again as soon as we have some factoring ramp-up, as I am confident it will be.
Operator: Thank you. We will now take the next question from the line of Nicolas Tourret from Oddo BHF. As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star 1 and 1. Nicolas, go ahead.
Nicolas Tourret: Yes, thank you for taking my questions. So the first one is on the outlook. Your 2026 guidance implies organic growth of around, let's say, flat in Q4. So how should we think about 2027 from there? Does that exit rate give you more confidence in returning to positive growth next year? And more broadly, looking at the next few quarters, what are the key moving parts we should keep in mind? Where do you see some upside and downside risk to the growth? The second one is on Eviden. On the timing and phasing effect, which penalizes a bit the Q3. Could you give us an idea of the reversal we should expect in Q4? Should we expect a similar positive impact in Q4, potentially pushing growth towards the 15% to 20% range? And the last one is on France, on the public sector.
Nicolas Tourret: Do you expect the activity to stabilize or potentially deteriorate ahead of the presidential election? You mentioned France potentially close to breakeven in Q4, but any color on which sector will drive that improvement will be helpful. Thank you.
Philippe Salle: Yes, I would say to reach around -5%, we need to be better, in fact, than Q3. It means we need to be between 0% and -2%, and that's the goal. Are we going to touch the 0%? It's too soon to say, but of course, it's our goal. Let's see. I would say we will have a better view, of course, month after month. Now we are just at the beginning of October. There are some contracts that we have signed that also are going live in the course of Q4, so we will see. But that's the way we look at it. I would say that Q4 will be better than Q3. And of course, with this, we are confident to be around -5%. For Eviden, I don't know. Yes, of course, it will be better in Q4, you're right.
Philippe Salle: There is, again, one component is Vision AI on Eviden, because in fact, the revenues are close to 0% right now because we do a lot in Middle East with this business. So we will see. There are some contracts that should start normally in Q4, and of course, that will beef up, of course, the growth versus like here. You say, we are looking at double-digit growth, in fact, for Eviden. I don't know if it will be 15% or 20%, as you say, but at least double digit, and I think it's possible in Q4. For the public sector in France, I think we continue, I would say, to do a lot of things in the public sector. We are also pushing, let's say, some cyber contracts also with some public entities.
Philippe Salle: Let's say for the last 2 years, in fact, the public sector was roughly a flat plus. There is no, let's say, big push in fact there. We are more, right now, let's say, active in the private sector than in the public sector. Public sector is big in France. But let's say there is no
Philippe Salle: We don't see a lot of growth for the moment, probably in cyber, because as you know, in France, it's a big topic for a lot of public institutions. We have won also a big contract in defense that is not yet public, but it will come. It is with Atos on this one, not with Eviden. I would say there is some traction in the public sector, but we estimate that probably the growth will come more from the private sector than the public sector, and that's why we are pushing harder, let's say, on the private sector in France.
Nicolas Tourret: Okay. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. We will now take the next question from the line of Laurent Daure from Kepler Cheuvreux. Please go ahead.
Laurent Daure: Yes. Thank you. Good morning, gentlemen. I have two questions. The first is back on revenues. When I listen to your comments, it seems like that's the opposite of what we've seen for many quarters, that a lot of the regions are about to stabilize. Going forward, do you still see some challenges in some regions, or do you believe entering into 2027, most of them will enter flattish, and then will depend on your bookings later? The second question is going back to cash. You pointed a EUR 50 million of cash outflow on restructuring in Q3. I was wondering, going forward in Q4 and next year, what kind of assumption should we take in our model on this specific element? Thank you.
Philippe Salle: Yeah. On the second question, as I say, EUR 30 million probably in Q4, the envelope of Genesis will be close to EUR 200 million. Next year, you will have the guidance in February, so please wait. Then, yes, I think that most of the bad news are over. So you are right. In fact, in the US, you will see in Q4, we will be at zero plus, probably above zero. We will continue to grow in the UK, international, Eviden, international also. So probably the two countries where still some, let us say, more difficult comp will be Northern Europe and Germany. But it is easing also. So yes, and as you know, Northern Europe is not a big geo. So yes, we can say that we enter 2027 in a much better, let us say, position than of course 2025 and 2026.
Philippe Salle: Then, of course, I will give you the guidance of growth for 2027 when we publish the full-year results end of February.
Laurent Daure: Yeah. Maybe an add-on, Philippe. Thank you. Should we worry about any potential big renewal that are soon to come, or shall we be fine on that specifically?
Philippe Salle: In fact, for 2027, there is only one very big renewal in the US. But the contract is going to be renewed in September or October, so I do not expect to lose it, but I would say even if I lose it is not going to be a big impact in 2027. It is going to be an impact in 2028. So no, for next year, in fact, there are not also a lot of large renewals in the pipeline right now.
Laurent Daure: In Germany, regarding one of the largest customers still, I think is Siemens. Shall we expect any headwind on that customer for 2027?
Philippe Salle: Yes, you are right. Siemens, in fact, is three Siemens. Remember, we work with Healthineers, Energy, and AG. I would say it is three different stories. We continue to grow, in fact, with Healthineers and Energy. We signed a lot of contracts with SAP, et cetera. Yes, we continue, let us say, to decline with Siemens AG. That is, in fact, has taken the decision, let us say, to diversify their suppliers, in fact, and it was a decision taken in 2023 and 2024, and they continue to do that. Yes, for Siemens AG, we continue to have a decrease, probably between, let us say, EUR 50 to 70 million. That is why I say in Germany, it is the only geo where there is, let us say, one impact of a large contract that is continue to decrease. Yeah.
Laurent Daure: Okay, that is very clear. Thank you, Philippe.
Operator: Thank you. We will now take the next question from the line of Derric Marcon from Bernstein. Please go ahead.
Derric Marcon: Yes. Good morning, guys. Two questions from me. The first one on the order intake. Can you explain the mechanism that you expect for Q4? You said book-to-bill above EUR 100 million, 100%, sorry. I was wondering if we can have more granularity about what is new, what is renewal, what will be helpful to grow the top line in 2027. At the end of the day, the figure we are seeing for 2026 doesn't give us a lot of reassurance about the top-line growth scenario that you have for 2027. My second question is about the unburdened. As Laurent said, we are all trying to understand what are the unburdened negatives that you will have at the beginning of 2027 in term of growth.
Derric Marcon: You commented the risk of losing contracts or things like that. Can you also comment the unburdened decline coming from price reduction that are already agreed with customer on existing contracts and potentially also the impact of AI? Thank you.
Philippe Salle: Mm-hmm. I said, be careful on the book-to-bill, because it's not a direct, unfortunately, reading on the growth of next year. We do a lot of framework also agreements, where we're going to have a lot of revenues, but you don't see this in the book-to-bill. I'm not scared about the growth of next year. You can see that sequentially we are flat. We're going to be above the Q3 revenues in Q4 because Q4 is always bigger, let's say, than Q3. There are not any big renewals again in Q4, but we have a lot of tenders also for new logos, where we think we can probably sign it. It's good news for us in the US and also in Europe. That's why, of course, if we sign this contract, they are EUR 200 million-plus.
Philippe Salle: As you can imagine, the book-to-bill, of course, is going to be impacted. It's difficult for me to give you the answer, but probably the way we calculate the book-to-bill, I don't know if it's different from the competition, but it's not because it's below 100 that we don't grow. Be very careful on this one. Also because the framework is not in our book-to-bill, and we do a lot of framework contracts. If you say we finish around -5%, let's say between 0% and -2% in Q4 and -5% at the yearly, it means normally that we enter the year around -2%, in fact. It is mathematical, but in fact, I think it's probably false, this one, because we have been flat for, let's say, four quarters. In fact, I think the first quarter was EUR 1,640.
Philippe Salle: It means that, yeah, we enter probably in a good position to show some growth in Q1 2025 for me.
Operator: Thank you. There are no further-
Philippe Salle: Probably I can continue. You are right, Jesse, you say. There is no price reduction we have in the contracts. In fact, in some managed services, there are some, let's say, gains of efficiency that we have every year. But I would say there is nothing in particular in 2027 versus 2026. There is no pattern saying that we accelerate this. AI also, there is nothing in our contracts right now. It is too soon. As I said, in Europe, it is not a topic anywhere. It will come, but it will take time. In the US, it is too soon. For CNA, for example, the AI, let's say, savings was in year, I think, 3. So we are just entering the first year. There is no impact, in fact, in the course of next year.
Philippe Salle: I think there is no pressure for us on pricing for next year. We continue, of course, to when you operate managed services, let's say on 5, 6, 7 years, sometimes more, of course, we have efficiency gains. So it means that we manage our costs to, of course, have better margin and give part of the margin to the clients. But I would say this is normal business for us. I do not see, let's say, a pattern saying that there will be a big impact for us in the course of 2027. Okay.
Derric Marcon: Very clear. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. There are no further questions at this time. I would like to turn the conference back to Philippe Salle for closing remarks.
Philippe Salle: Okay. Any other questions? No. You can try again, operator.
Operator: Okay.
Philippe Salle: Okay. If there are not, yeah. If there are not, I think-
Operator: To ask a question, please press star one one.
Philippe Salle: We are back to work. The year is not finished, and we still have some work. I would say we are very confident in terms of revenue, confident in terms of profitability and cash. I definitely think, in fact, that the Genesis plan was a two-year, let's say, a two plan. The first two year of 2025 and 2026 was really, I would say, the restructuring. We are quite over on this one. Then, as I said, the focus now is really on the top line. That is why also because we have also reshuffled a lot of the teams and the head of industries in the different geos, a lot of CEPs and client executive partners.
Philippe Salle: There are a lot of things that we are doing in the course of 2026, and I am very confident that we are now putting the seeds, of course, for the rebound in 2027. On this, I wish you a very good day. We are, of course, at your disposal for any questions, and I think we are going to meet some of you, some investors in the coming, in fact, today and tomorrow. I will come back on the full year results end of February.
Philippe Salle: Also I will probably do not a CMD, but a smaller, let's say, a market day, just half of the plan, what we have done in two years, what are the expectations for 2027 and 2028, and give you, of course, probably more flavor also on AI, because we are doing a lot of things internally, and we definitely think it is going to yield some results, in fact, in our clients. Have a good day, and talk to you next year. Bye-bye.
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.
