Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Agfa Q3 2026 results conference call. For the first part of the conference call, the participants will be in listen-only mode. During the questions and answer session, participants are able to ask questions by dialing pound key 5 on their telephone keypad. Now, I will hand the conference over to Pascal Juéry, CEO. Please go ahead, sir.
Pascal Juéry: Thank you. Good morning, everyone. I am sitting here in Mortsel with our CFO, Declan Guerin, and with Viviane Dictus, our Head of Investor Relations. Let me walk you through the Q3 results. But before we do that, we need, of course, to remind you that indeed following the announcement of the combination of our DPS business with EFI, this team, Digital Printing Solutions, will be presented as the discontinued operations, and therefore, we have reorganized the reporting of the group for the continuing part along two segments. One, of course, is HealthCare IT, so there is no change here, so the IT part of the business. And the second segment is Imaging and Advanced Materials, where we have regrouped actually the industrial part of the group.
Pascal Juéry: Today's results, of course, we are going to be focusing mainly on the continuing operation, even if we are going to give you as well a view on the performance of DPS. But as you know, DPS is going to be combined with EFI. We are expecting the closing to happen by year-end. Going to the results, I think the message I want to pass is the transformation of the group is on track. Q3 is typically a rather weak quarter, and this one was no exception. As you will see, pretty contrasted performances according to the business. You will all remember that Q4 is typically the strongest quarter of the year. So, if I turn to the performance.
Pascal Juéry: Sales flat, but as you will see, very contrasted, in fact, because we have got good dynamism in some of our businesses, where in others, we are suffering also from market environment or mix impacts. Adjusted EBITDA EUR 1 million in the new continuing part. Indeed, a weak quarter, and we explained to you why it is so. Just also want to stress that our saving plan is absolutely in line with our expectations. So we have saved EUR 64 million. The main source of saving is coming from the reorganization of the operation of our Film & Chemicals unit, but also with the review of our go-to-market mainly in film and in digital radiology. We are still consuming cash, and this cash consumption is purely coming from the cost of transformation of the group. In the segment, HealthCare IT, sales up 11%. EBITDA also quite up versus last year.
Pascal Juéry: And more importantly for me, the continued momentum in order intake with +21% on the last 12 months rolling, actually. In the same last 12 months, our cloud orders have more than tripled. As you would see, HealthCare IT, we are doing extremely well in the transition of the cloud. If anything, it is accelerating. I should add that most of this increase in order intake is actually coming from new customers, new logos that we are adding every quarter to our order intake and pipeline. So it is a very positive development. Imaging and Advanced Materials, a more subdued performance. Three businesses in this segment. Film & Chemicals will continue to be ahead of last year, actually, in spite of strong volume decrease. You also have some accounting impact related to silver that is having a negative impact on this quarter.
Pascal Juéry: We should say that our DR business, that is a subject of a go-to-market organization in 2026 with the separation, I would say, from the film go-to-market, is undergoing a kind of reorganization in sales channel, which is having an impact on our current performance. GHS, Green Hydrogen Solutions, as we know, it is a very weak year for us in 2026. I repeat immediately that we already have some visibility in 2027, and it is going to be a very significant rebound of the activity. DPS, again, commenting on the performance, although it is not part of the numbers and commenting. Sales are down, but it is more a mix effect, I would say. We had sales, especially in the packaging area, that were not repeated this year.
Pascal Juéry: What is more important is that even with sales below last year, actually EBITDA is up year-on-year, and our ink sales also continue to show a good dynamism with an increase of 12%. So overall, I would say we are entering the combination with EFI in a position of good performance for the business. As you know, sales can be a bit lumpy quarter to quarter. If we are down this quarter, it is mainly due to equipment, but we are going to make it up more than fully in Q4. Q4, again, for DPS, is really the quarter of the year where we ship the most equipment and where we deliver the most EBITDA. I am going to now turn the presentation to Declan, who will walk you through the numbers.
Declan Guerin: Thank you, Pascal. Hello, everybody, and very glad to be here on my first quarterly call. Do give me a little bit of latitude as I work through the numbers. If we look to the headlines first in terms of revenue and adjusted EBITDA. Again, just as a reminder, these are in-quarter numbers. Overall flat, Q3 2025 versus 2026 on revenue. But as Pascal mentioned, some mix impact. HealthCare IT marching ahead with double-digit growth, and the Imaging and Advanced Materials retreating a bit. On the EBITDA line, the percentages are far more dramatic, obviously, with smaller numbers, but we have gone from EUR 4 million down to EUR 1 million in the quarter, again, with HealthCare IT marching forward and Imaging and Advanced Materials, again, following the volumes downwards.
Declan Guerin: It is also worth just noting, I will get into the details a bit in the following slides, that quarters can be lumpy. If we look at year-to-date and year-on-year performance, momentum is a bit different. Year-to-date, last year, we had EUR 647 million of sales. This year, EUR 631 million. That is minus 2.5% versus last year. Then on the EBITDA number, we had EUR 22 million for the corresponding year-to-date period last year. This year is EUR 25 million, so up EUR 18 million. Then if you take into account mix and other changes happening, roughly flat year on year if you look at the balance of revenue and EBITDA. Then moving on to the sales bridge, EUR 210 million to EUR 210 million in the quarter. Small pluses and minuses.
Declan Guerin: We talked about HealthCare IT, and this is obviously growth in sales we show here, but also the 12-month rolling order intake is up 21%, which is a very, very good development. We will come back to the shape of that order intake a little bit later. Film & Chemicals, down a bit, but sorry, it is up a bit, but that is primarily the impact of silver pricing rippling through our numbers and not volumes. So, if you did a price-volume thing, of course, volumes are not in the same place as well. Digital Radiology, it is a reorganization year. We are in the middle of a reorganization, and that will continue, but we see the impact on our sales where it has retreated a bit as they look to prune the market product portfolio, et cetera.
Declan Guerin: Green Hydrogen Solutions is back quite a bit, from smaller numbers, but it is back quite a bit, mainly related to external factors, market flows, and we expect that to come back as we move forward into next year. Then moving forward to the adjusted EBITDA bridge, and again, just to remind, these are the in-quarter numbers. As I mentioned in the summary, we have gone from EUR 4 million to EUR 1 million. But here, because it is small numbers, the waterfall looks a lot more exciting. Again, the volume increases that we have seen in HealthCare IT have driven additional gross profit that falls mainly to the bottom line. But in the opposite direction, we see mainly in Imaging and Chemicals, a gross profit impact where it goes in the opposite direction. Again, in quarter, we have seen in the segments 18.7% margin last year in the quarter.
Declan Guerin: This year, it is 16.8%. It looks like a pretty dramatic drop, but again, when we look to the timing of the impacts of silver and other things, year on year, it is 20.6% versus 20.7%, pretty much flat. We got some R&D costs, SG&A cost savings, and other movements that bring us to the EUR 1 million at the end. Okay, this is pretty much the same in table form. I will not go through the headlines above adjusted EBITDA. It is just worth noting that there are some big movements below EBITDA in terms of adjustments, restructuring expenses, et cetera, that do ripple through the financial statements. This is the Agfa financial settlement that we had last year that is coming on the year-on-year numbers, just to note that. Then cash flow. In the quarter, we are minus EUR 14 million. Again, this is primarily driven by transformation-related cash outs.
Declan Guerin: And if we walk it across from the adjusted EBITDA in the quarter of EUR 1 million to the -EUR 14 million at the opposite end, we have had some changes in working capital. These have been helpful and positive, but we know that working capital does move around from quarter to quarter, depending on what is happening in the business, et cetera. We also have the impact of factoring in here as well. You will notice on the comments on the right that the movement between Q2 and Q3 is primarily a reflection of the DPS carve-out impacts. CapEx, mainly capitalized R&D, HealthCare IT. That is investment that is driving return, so good to see. Then we have bits and bobs of other costs. We have tax, believe it or not, in spite of the net results of the group.
Declan Guerin: This is how subsidiary activities get taxed locally where we do not have tax shelters. There is always some tax leakage that comes from those activities. The adjusted free cash flow, the EUR 8 million, that is a good number to look at. That is a cash conversion number of EBITDA, but of course, we have the pension liabilities as an ongoing cost once it comes after that. Then we have adjustments and non-recurring items related primarily to transformation-related cash out, again, which is an investment. You see back into the numbers, but it is a drag on cash flow. The table here, I think I have spoken pretty much to most of this.
Declan Guerin: Again, like I mentioned on the P&L, on the cash flow, when you are looking at year-to-date, year-on-year, the bottom main impact is the AgfaPhoto settlement that we had last year, and also, which is not in the cash flow, but the new savings plans we announced in November last year, where we booked provisions, we have to cash out this year for those plans. So it is a mixture of two things impacting those numbers. Okay, onto the leverage and covenants and gross to net debt. Of course, when we look at the gross debt numbers for the group, it is dominated by pensions. Then we have the leasing activity, and then we have the net financial debt, gross borrowings less cash that we have at hand. It is just worth noting on this a few things.
Declan Guerin: The pensions and the leasing numbers have been adjusted to reflect discontinued activities, but the net debt number, the red number, that obviously remains at the group level. In terms of the, so that is the EUR 92 million. In terms of the covenants, so we ended the quarter, this is on a rolling 12-month basis, at 1.9x versus the covenant max of 3. For interest cover, we were 8.6x versus minimum of 4 on this. In terms of liquidity headroom, we are at just under EUR 96 million versus a EUR 30 million minimum on this. So inside the covenants, which is always good, with some room. It is also worth just noting again, even though it has been previously announced, that in August, we extended our RCF agreement with our club of banks to 1 August 2030.
Declan Guerin: We have a long duration maturity on these arrangements as well. That is good.
Pascal Juéry: Thank you, Declan. Let me walk you through now the performance of the businesses. HealthCare IT. As I say, the main message here is the shift to cloud continues to accelerate. It accelerates with good momentum for us. As I said, last 12 months order up +21%, and cloud orders more than tripled, actually. So EUR 197 million 12 months order intake. Actually, I would like to zoom back. 5 years ago, we were barely reaching EUR 100 million of order intake. This number has doubled. EUR 91 million, this is the cloud part, so getting very close to 60% of the total order intake, and it more than tripled in the last 12 months.
Pascal Juéry: Indeed, what it tells us, we have momentum, the cloud transformation is happening, and I would say the extreme vast majority of this EUR 91 million of cloud order intake is made with new logos, new customers. Every quarter, we are gaining new logos, new customers. I would say at least 2, 3, 4 per quarter. Recurring share of Q3 sales, 69%. This is the highest number ever. A few years ago, it was barely above 50%. So it means really the nature of our business is changing. In the quarter, 11% growth in the sales, significantly better EBITDA, and is the result of this. This being said, of course, the cloud acceleration has also an impact on our profitability.
Pascal Juéry: As you know, and this is what we have been trying to explain now for a number of quarters, and that we are redoing today in a slightly different form, the way you recognize your revenue and your profit is different in the cloud than it is as a project. Here, we try to illustrate it with these lines. If you have a EUR 10 million project, it flies to the bottom line on the first year, which is not the case, of course, for a cloud SaaS business. As you will see, the lines are crossing actually after 4 and a half years. That is where you start catching up on the revenue side, and the revenue side means also the same impact on the margins, of course.
Pascal Juéry: You are getting ahead from this time on with a significant increase in the overall value of what you are delivering. Overall, this is what is named the J-curve, when you have this transformation to the cloud. For the timing, if you look at our performance, we were able to remain relatively flat in terms of profitability, meaning we were trying to go for a different curve, not the J-curve, more an L-curve, so to speak. But actually, with the cloud acceleration, we start seeing the impact, and I will come back to that in the outlook. Again, this is good news for us. Revenue was mostly upfront and lumpy. Now it is over time. Customer pays one big amount at the beginning. Right now it is a subscription, so they pay for every period, which, by the way, is also improving our cash cycle.
Pascal Juéry: The revenue profile used to be lumpy. We were depending on contracts implemented in the quarter. As you see, we are more and more in the recurring form of revenue. Upgrades were big affairs when we were on-premise with hardware. It is not the case anymore with a cloud environment where we can push it very smoothly. The cost to serve will be more favorable on the cloud SaaS environment. Overall, still very good news. But in the short term, you have got revenue and margin dip that we were able to make up through the dynamism of our order intake. But today, the shift is going even faster and it is becoming a little bit more difficult for us to make it up. Again, it is good news for the value creation of the business. We are very successful in creating a good franchise.
Pascal Juéry: Imaging and Advanced Materials, a bit of a different environment, of course. We already discussed it. When you look at, and we detailed here the sales by sub-segments, you would see very different dynamics. Let me first talk about Film & Chemicals, which represents, of course, the bulk of the segment. What you see here in the +2.1% in sales is really about price reflecting the higher silver price. But underlying this number, you have still a significant volume decline, double-digit volume decline of the business overall. Of course, you always have mix impact in the segment as well. As we said, DR is going through a reorganization year, so slightly down because we are reviewing our engagement, our geographies, and our positioning by doing this. So it has a negative impact on the top line.
Pascal Juéry: As you have seen, Green Hydrogen Solutions is really what we described from the beginning of the year, meaning it is almost a mixture for us with very small sales. Again, here, again, we have visibility. This is our project business, so we have a few quarters visibility, and it is going to come back in 2027. So all this has an impact on the EBITDA, of course, which is negative for the quarter, in spite of all the saving measures we have. However, and that is what we are going to try and explain in the next slide, Declan Guerin will explain it. We have a dip with the silver volatility. It has created specific impact on the earnings that we are going to try and explain to you right now.
Declan Guerin: Very good. Hopefully we will explain it as well. Just maybe a couple of things as a bit more to what we showed earlier. The Imaging and Advanced Materials segment is roughly about EUR 600 million of annual sales, of which about 80% is Film & Chemicals. It is a very big part of that. In terms of the segment, of course, in the previous slide, Pascal Juéry showed the gross margin percentage, and of course it is down 3% year-on-year. But if we remind ourselves again of the year-to-date gross margins, 20.6% year-to-date for the segment in 2026, 20.7% same period last year. The EBITDA number went from EUR 15 million to EUR 21 million over the same period, and the percentage from 3% to 4.5%. If you take a slightly longer term view of this, it is less difficult to understand.
Declan Guerin: But if we get into what causes some of the noise in the numbers, a big part of this is silver dynamics, and especially over the last 12 months or so. First of all, of course, we can and do pass on the impact of the changing prices to our customers, but over the cycle, it is neutral. We do not have paid or gained from that, neither to our customers, but it has a timing effect to get to that net position. If I draw your eyes to the top of the chart where you see starting with buy, this is how we look at the dynamics. We buy silver up front, cash out. In January this year, we had a large purchase of silver and a large cash out because the prices were very unfavorable at the time.
Declan Guerin: Every year, we have a similar cycle. This year, it is rather extreme. We hold the inventory in stock, and it gives me mark to market along the way, which has a margin timing. When we sell, we have, of course, the pricing impact of the price we bought in, and we book the sales, and we get these margins passing through. We collect at the end when the film is sold, and we get the cash in. What happens here in terms of our results, silver price rises in Q1 this year, so we had a temporary margin gain, but cash tied up in a pricier silver. As we have gone through Q2 and Q3, we have seen that margin gain start to be given back as the cycle works its way through.
Declan Guerin: Quid pro quo, as we run through the year and into Q4, we will start to see the cash and the build-up of working capital get released back out. In the medium term, neutral, but in the short term, it does create a ripple effect in our numbers, especially if silver prices move around. What we have seen this year is starting the year out with silver at $88 an ounce, moving down to $62, where we are currently today. We can see the sales impact illustrated at the bottom by quarter as it works through. It builds up, and then it starts to come down. Likewise, on the chart next to that, we see the impact on margin and the cash impact. Margin positive at the start, heavy in cash negative, and then that starts to reverse as we go through.
Declan Guerin: And in our results, the headline numbers here are sales impact in the 9 months year to date, +EUR 45 million. Gross margin impact, +EUR 5 million. The cash impact is negative, just over EUR 30 million. But again, over the cycle, this will work its way through. But in that 12, 15, 18-month period, it does create a bit of noise in the numbers and also does create some challenges in managing this. I go to the next slide here, and the obvious question is, what are you doing about managing this and the variability that is here? Of course, the most important thing to bear in mind is that we have certain actions already in place to manage these swings, which, as I mentioned, do create those short-term timing effects on margin and cash. Medium term, neutralize out.
Declan Guerin: We have in our commercial agreements, of course, the ability to index pricing, but that does work its way through between purchase and booking on a sale with a lag of about a quarter. We are also looking to how we can manage inventories better, so inventory management. So, less silver held in stock, and that really comes to how we operate the factories, sales and operations planning processes to be a bit leaner in terms of how we do that so we can operate with less silver inventory full stop. Then physical hedging, and here it mainly is around having a better balance in terms of the pace and cadence of when we purchase silver. So, steady purchases of silver, just like steady purchase of anything, allow you to dollar average the price of silver coming in a more steady way.
Declan Guerin: So, that is something we are looking to do in a better way going forward. Then under review, our, let us say, back onto the CFO table, things around financial hedging options and how we can manage this rather large working capital consumptive item in a better way. I am not talking here about playing on the commodity markets with forward options and things like that, but it is more around combination of the physical hedging and the cadence of buying and also managing in a vendor financing and factoring way if we can find partners to help us here with the cash flow aspects as well. But to get a grip on this so we narrow the variability on it is high on our list.
Pascal Juéry: Thank you very much, Declan. In short, silver volatility has created volatility in our earnings and in EBITDA and in the cash, actually. For DPS, even if it is discontinued, I want to comment on it as well. Remember again, this can be a bit lumpy. So, -10% in the sales of the quarter, I tell you, it is purely equipment sales. As you see, new sales are doing very well. I can already tell you that actually we are going to make it up in Q4. So, Q4 is really always the strongest quarter of the year, and we will be back in the very positive sales territory after Q4. I am also pleased because the underlying profitability of the business is increasing. It is typically a business where most of the profit, if not all of the profit, was made in Q4.
Pascal Juéry: We are entering Q4 today with already a positive EBITDA from the first three quarters. Overall, why? Because we have a better mix. We have a better mix in equipment. We are also selling more ink, which helps on the profitability. As you know, we announced the combination of this business with EFI. We are truly excited about this strategic drive, which will create a lot of opportunities for the newly formed entity, and we are entering this new combination in a position of growth and profitable growth. Indeed, very positive. Now, maybe time to go to the outlook, and here, I will start with HealthCare IT. Well, you have seen, I think all the indicators are green for HealthCare IT. However, the faster shift to the cloud has an impact on our guidance.
Pascal Juéry: We thought, so we had different assumptions regarding the share of cloud versus the share of project in our business for 2026. Actually, as the shift is accelerating, we are going to see a temporary impact in 2026, and therefore, we expect profitability to be slightly lower than last year. But this is only due to the faster-than-expected transition to the cloud. To the question, when are you going to turn the corner in terms of margins and progress? I would say that 2028 in our monetization of the cloud. So, 2027 will be the continuation of what we have seen in 2026, and 2028 should be the year where we will see a specific growth, and I would say, accretive impact of the cloud.
Pascal Juéry: For Imaging and Advanced Materials, in fact, on the three sub-segments, Film & Chemicals is doing better than last year, and DR and Green Hydrogen Solutions are doing below last year. But the impact of DR and Green Hydrogen Solutions are stronger than the positive impact of Film & Chemicals. So, overall, it is going to be below last year. Digital Printing Solutions, as I said, we have good momentum in the business, even if the quarter was not great in top line. We are pretty confident on Q4 because everything that we need to deliver on Q4 is firm order. We have a very strong visibility on Q4, and definitely will continue to progress versus last year, as has been the case actually for the past few years. No change on the group cash flow.
Pascal Juéry: We knew that it was going to be more negative than last year because for many, I would say three reasons. The AgfaPhoto cash-in impact that we had last year, the higher transformation cash-out, as we are paying for the restructuring, and number three, we still have, as was explained very well by Declan Guerin a few slides ago, the cash impact on the silver volatility is negative for the year. We are going to recoup it, but it is negative for the year, and the reason is very simple. We have a cash cycle for this business that is up to six months, and therefore, we still will recover cash in 2027 from this volatility. So, that is for the outlook. Just a point on really where we are in our transformation. First, Digital Printing Solutions, I think it is very clear, we are combining Agfa DPS with EFI.
Pascal Juéry: That's, as you know, a very exciting project where we're going to be creating a leader in the space and where we expect a significant amount of synergies. Although the business is not going to be consolidated in our accounts, we're expecting to create significant economic value for the group in the next 3 years. Green Hydrogen, yes, we had almost, I would say, a blank year in 2026 for various reasons, but we do have visibility to 2027. This is a project business. Customers are talking to us all the time about what they need for the future quarters, and we have a rather good visibility. I would say that it's not yet where we would like it to be, but it's going to be a step change compared to 2026 already, so positive as well. HealthCare IT, I think we covered it.
Pascal Juéry: I think we are. The move to the cloud is actually the opportunity for us to grab market share and to take over new logos. The reason being, Agfa is very well positioned to capture this cloud transition. We are one of the few players with a good track record of bringing Enterprise Imaging to the cloud. It has a short-term impact, as explained now many times, on revenue recognitions and margin recognitions. But overall, again, we are creating significant value by turning a lumpy project business into a successful subscription business. That's very clear. Imaging and Advanced Materials and DR. On Film & Chemicals, we have done the job of restructuring, and as you've seen, some of the volatility of the earnings are also created by specific accounting measures related to silver. We will continue our efforts to restructure, but it's not going to be another very brutal restructuring.
Pascal Juéry: It will be restructuring along the way, as the plan is in place to do that. That's a business in which we are confident that we can continue to be cash positive for the next years, but we will also adapt our structure according to what we see in the market. DR. DR 2026 was not a good year. We have a number of strategic initiatives for 2027 that we are putting in place in order to review our go-to-market, change a bit the way we are managing services, and as well, product initiatives that are starting to be deployed as soon as actually in the next weeks at our RSNA. So we are not staying idle in this area. Just a word on sustainability. We are doing the job also of reducing our emissions and operating as a responsible company.
Pascal Juéry: We have a significant program of energy management, which, by the way, is also excellent in terms of our economics, because we are de-risking by having a set of energy production that can shield us from some of the large variations in the market. I'm going to stop here, of course, and take the questions of the analysts and the press.
Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, if you wish to ask a question, please dial pound key 5 on your telephone keypad. If you wish to withdraw your question, you can dial pound key 6. The first question is coming from Guy Sips from KBC Securities. Your line is now open. Please go ahead.
Guy Sips: Yes, thank you. Thank you for the presentation. I have three questions. Some of them are part handled during the presentation. But on HealthCare IT, although order intake and the cloud momentum are very strong, yet you still expect this year's profitability below 2025 numbers. When should the SaaS cloud transition become accretive to EBITDA margins, and what margin levels do you consider achievable once the transition matures? The second question is on the cash flow and the balance sheet. These are EUR 46 million of annualized cost savings. Cost savings said the first 9 months free cash flow remains deeply negative, and net debt has risen sharply. When do you expect the remaining business to become a sustainable free cash flow positive, and how much restructuring cash out should we still expect in 2027?
Guy Sips: Then on the second division, the Imaging and Advanced Materials, adjusted EBITDA fell from positive to negative, while the expected Green Hydrogen Solutions recovery has again been pushed out. What gives you confidence for a meaningful recovery in 2027, and at what point would you consider more radical restructuring or strategic alternatives do you expect to happen for this underperforming activities? Thank you.
Pascal Juéry: Okay. So on the 2028, for your healthcare question, clearly, we expect 2028 to be the year of significant progress of EBITDA. So 2027 will still be impacted by this transition to the cloud, and 2028 should be the year where we can see a specific change in this trend. In the meantime, margins achievable. Well, I am not going to guide very precisely on this, but already we believe that EBITDA margins will start increasing, so in 2028, and we will probably, we have the potential to reach this business, I would say, approximately more than 20% over time. For me, the EBITDA of this business will be between 20% and 25% when we are going to be more or less done and become a pure, I would say, cloud and SaaS business, or at least on a majority basis.
Pascal Juéry: But 2028 is really the year where we are going to pivot, where we are going to pivot and start having an accretion in the margin and then a significant increase in EBITDA. Your question on the GHS recovery. I do not recall us saying that we will recover in 2026 at all. We always said that it was going to be 2027, and we are confirming and standing by this statement. Why? Again, it is a project business for our customers, meaning we know exactly which projects and which follow it, that our customers are being FID during 2026, and more or less, that is going to be our sales for 2027, if I oversimplify. Okay? And that we have this visibility right now, so we know, we do not say exactly, but we have a very good idea already of what our order book will look like in 2027.
Pascal Juéry: Again, it is going to be a return to a more normal situation, probably not yet at the level of 2025, where we delivered specific, very large projects. But we believe that now this business is starting back after a clarification of the regulatory framework in Europe, and remains also quite dynamic in India and China. So we have the right visibility to be confident about the rebound of the market. Regarding your question on radical restructuring, I think what we did already was pretty radical. In the couple of years, we have eliminated actually a significant amount of costs. If I think of headcount, we have almost divided by two the production headcount. So call it radical, I think it is radical. We will continue to adjust and to decrease, although at a slower pace.
Pascal Juéry: Again, what you have seen in Q3, the volatility of the earnings of Film & Chemicals, again, is explained by the silver volatility. What we are looking at, if we remove all this impact, we have a much more stable view of Film & Chemicals. Again, it is a significantly improved performance versus last year. But we will continue to monitor quarter after quarter, and we will continue to implement productivity measures as we see fit to maintain the profitability of this activity going forward. Did I forget any question, Guy Sips?
Guy Sips: The second one on the balance sheet.
Pascal Juéry: Restructuring for 2027, to also say, when are we going to be in a position to generate cash? For 2027, do we already have a view? The plan not fully, I would say, as well.
Declan Guerin: No. I think, in terms of restructuring and how it works, of course, we had the provisions booked last year, and we've burned probably just a bit over half of those provisions in terms of taking the actions. But of course, that means cash out as we effect restructuring. Then, of course, the savings, we're on track, a little ahead of track on those. But those savings and our run rate savings that are forward-looking then start to give benefits. So there's some sort of a timing aspect there to keep in mind as well in terms of when we make the accounting provisions versus when the cash is out, versus when the savings start to come through.
Pascal Juéry: Now, to your question, when are we going to be a company able to generate cash? I would say, I still see the next couple of years to be transformation years, where we will have to spend still a significant amount in restructuring. The pension, of course, are not going away, even if they decrease, but that's slowly. So I still expect it to be the case. But we are taking all liquidity measures to make sure we can work through this transition, and we have a number of projects that we are working on right now.
Guy Sips: Okay, thank you.
Operator: There are no further questions at this time, so I hand the conference back to Pascal Juéry, CEO, for any closing remarks.
Pascal Juéry: Thank you very much. First, as you know, keep repeating that, but Agfa is a group in full transformation, and a transformation is not judged on a quarter. Again, I repeat, on our three growth engines, the prospects are very positive, even if, again, the short-term of HealthCare IT is unfortunately influenced by this cloud transition. But all of these businesses will have very positive performance going forward. With DPS and the combination, although we are not going to consolidate again, I think there is probably an underestimation about the amount of value creation we are going to be able to achieve through this project. The rest of the group, as I said, will continue to do whatever it takes to maintain the film profitability going forward through cost action. But today, do not look at the quarter.
Pascal Juéry: You need to look on a larger period and understand what all the volatility linked to silver has created in our accounts. Okay? Last but not least, we are extremely cash-focused, and the first priority for us is indeed to make sure we get all the liquidity needed to go through this phase of heavy transformation. That is what we are working on every day. So I would say, really, the strategic transformation is on track. We are navigating the short term with all the necessary measures. Thanks very much for your attendance, and speak to you soon.
Operator: This concludes today's call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.
