Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Kirloskar Brothers Limited Q2 and FY27 earning conference call. This conference call may contain forward-looking statements about the company, which are based on beliefs, opinions, and expectation of the company as on date of this call. These statements are not the guarantee of future performance and involve risk and uncertainties that are difficult to predict. As a reminder, all participant line will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation conclude. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Sanjay Kirloskar, Chairman and Managing Director from Kirloskar Brothers Limited.
Operator: Thank you and over to you, sir.
Sanjay Kirloskar: Thank you. Good afternoon, everyone. On behalf of Kirloskar Brothers Limited, I extend a very warm welcome to all of you joining us on our call today. I hope everyone has had an opportunity to go through the financial results and the investor presentation, which have been uploaded on the stock exchanges and the company's website. On this call with me, I have Alok Kirloskar, Managing Director, Kirloskar Brothers International BV, Rama Kirloskar, Joint Managing Director, KBL, and MD, KEPL, Bhavesh Chheda, our Chief Financial Officer, Devang Trivedi, our Company Secretary, and Strategic Growth Advisors, our Investor Relations Advisors. Let me begin with my remarks by giving some business highlights. I am pleased to report that during the quarter, consolidated revenues grew by 24% on year-on-year basis, reaching INR 12,767 million.
Sanjay Kirloskar: For H1, our consolidated revenues grew by 19% on a year-on-year basis reaching INR 23,816 million. This increase underscores the strong demand for our products and services across various segments, both domestically and internationally. EBITDA for the quarter grew by 16% on year-on-year basis, reaching INR 1,432 million, with EBITDA margins standing at 11.2%. EBITDA for H1 FY27 grew by 9%, reaching INR 2,738 million with an EBITDA margin of 11.5%. During the quarter, we also recorded healthy order inflows across both domestic and international markets. Our consolidated order intake grew by 68% year-on-year to INR 20,472 million, providing continued visibility for future growth.
Sanjay Kirloskar: Turning to our standalone domestic business, for Q2 FY27, revenue increased by 23% year-on-year to INR 7,991 million, while EBITDA grew by 37% to INR 937 million. Profit after tax stood at INR 544 million, reflecting a 45% year-on-year growth. Our healthy order book, coupled with our focused approach towards high-potential business opportunities, provides us with confidence in our growth outlook. We remain confident of delivering double-digit revenue growth in FY27 over FY26 for our standalone businesses. As of September 2026, order book on the domestic front grew by 29% on year-on-year basis, reaching INR 29,264 million, which as you know excludes the small pumps order book, and it reflects a strong pipeline. Furthermore, we are seeing good order inflows across segments.
Sanjay Kirloskar: On the international front, we reported 24% year-on-year growth in revenue during Q2 FY27. This performance was primarily driven by strong execution across SPP UK, SPP USA, and the Dutch group, supported by their robust order book execution. SPP USA continues to witness encouraging traction in data centers, fire, and HVAC projects. EBITDA stood at INR 233 million with an EBITDA margin of 5.3%. This moderation was primarily attributable to a lower contribution from the services business, which traditionally carries higher margins. We are actively focused on expanding the services portfolio, which we believe will support improvement going forward. Our overseas pending order book stood at INR 17,013 million, reflecting a growth of 32%, providing strong visibility for the coming quarters.
Sanjay Kirloskar: Looking ahead, we are very optimistic about the company's growth trajectory backed by a healthy mix of domestic and international business, a robust order pipeline, and continued focus on operational excellence. Our company is well-positioned to deliver sustainable growth in the periods ahead. This is all. We can now begin the question and answer session. Thank you.
Operator: Thank you so much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, we will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question comes from the line of Mahesh Bendre with LIC Mutual Fund. Please go ahead.
Mahesh Bendre: Hi, sir. Thank you so much for the opportunities and very strong performance on sales side and the order intake, given the current environment. Sir, I have two questions. First is on margin side. In this quarter, I think domestically we have done really well, but it is international pieces which is actually lagging in terms of margin. Do you anticipate recovery to happen in the second half?
Sanjay Kirloskar: Margins to go up in the second half.
Mahesh Bendre: Sorry, sir, I didn't
Sanjay Kirloskar: I said, yes, we do expect margins to go up in H2 as usual. For the international business, I will ask Alok to explain it a little more. We are now in our Q3 and this current quarter will be the Q4 for them, because they follow the calendar year as their financial year.
Alok Kirloskar: Just to add to that, I think, one point which was mentioned at the start is that, the mix this year has been slower in the UK for services. I have mentioned in previous analyst calls that we have, from order point of view, bagged many more service contracts. I also said, it takes some time for us to finish the site evaluation and kick off the contract. So we do expect more of those contracts to be kicked off in the current quarter, but definitely in KBL's Q4, which is, of course, the Q1 of the international companies from January to March. So I think that's the reason why it was mentioned earlier that H2 should have stronger margins.
Mahesh Bendre: Sure. Sir, the order intake has been very strong for domestic as well as international operations. Is there anything we have observed in terms of such a. Given the current business environment, these numbers are very strong. Anything you would like to share on this?
Sanjay Kirloskar: I've always said that we shouldn't look at this company from quarter to quarter. I've mentioned many times that sometimes large orders get delayed, and I think I mentioned that last time. The orders come in when the customers are ready to place them. The outlook is quite good. I've always mentioned that this company will grow with India's economic growth. I think customers recognize the fact that our products are superior to whoever else offers the products that we make. I believe there's a growing recognition that not only are they the most efficient and reliable, but the quality is also good, and they last for a long time. I think we're seeing that from customers recognizing the premium products that we supply.
Mahesh Bendre: The last question from my end. We have seen there is a huge shortage of water in Maharashtra and even at India level. At some point of time, do you anticipate growth in the standard forms to go up given the shortages in the water?
Sanjay Kirloskar: Yeah, it should. It should go up.
Mahesh Bendre: Sure. Thank you so much.
Operator: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one. Our next question comes from the line of Raj Shah with Enam Asset Management. Please go ahead.
Raj Shah: Yes, sir. Thank you, sir, for the opportunity. My first question was on the margin front, especially gross margins. If we see, it has seen a decline of almost 400 bps in both standalone as well as consolidated business. As you said, in the overseas business, especially UK, there was a fall in service revenues. But when we talk about the raw material cost increase, can you please elaborate what was the quantum of RM price increase, and were you able to pass on, if yes, then by what percentage? Hello?
Sanjay Kirloskar: Especially the price of copper, gun metal, steel, which are used in our products. We have been able to pass them on to a large extent. This also depends on product mix, how different products with different material costs go through during different parts of the year. While we are able to pass on, and we are the price leaders and always the first one to increase prices, we expect this to get moderated in the next few quarters.
Raj Shah: Okay. Got it. Sir, relating to the UK business margins, just following on the previous participant's question. If you see the margins, especially in H1, there is 0% profit that we have made specific to UK business. In FY25, it used to be 12% EBITDA margins. In financial year 2022, it came down to 7%. Do you think this year we can go back to, say, 5% to 7% range? I am not asking for a specific number, but some direction, because in H1, we have not made any profits in the UK business, which is close to 17% to 18% of the total revenues.
Alok Kirloskar: Yes. I think that this year we will have a recovery in the margins, if you look at KBL's financial year, and even if you look at the UK year. It will not be like the year 2024, 2025. But I think that the next year would be similar in terms of margins. The reason I say that is two issues the UK business has this year, and one issue may continue. One, of course, as you highlighted earlier, is material cost. The material cost has increased in the UK by 7% to 8%, actually 8% to be exact. That's one aspect of it. The second is that, with the oil and gas business picking up again, the oil and gas business has a lower margin, but also requires a lot more specialized skill set to be executed.
Alok Kirloskar: With the enhanced order book coming in of oil and gas in the UK, we see that there's a drag in margins on the products, and there's an additional drag in margin because of rising employee-related expenses. The benefits only come when the spare parts come of these businesses, of oil and gas products, and that's really why we sell these products. But I would say there are two additional factors, these two which I mentioned, in addition to the fact that our service business has been down the first three quarters or in KBL's case, the first two quarters. We only expect that partially to recover in this quarter and next quarter.
Raj Shah: Okay, got it. So you expect H2 to be much better in terms of margins in UK business. Hello?
Sanjay Kirloskar: Yeah, go ahead.
Raj Shah: Yeah. Am I audible, sir? Hello.
Sanjay Kirloskar: Yeah, you are audible.
Raj Shah: Okay.
Sanjay Kirloskar: There is some other noise in the background, though.
Raj Shah: Yeah. Next question, sir, was on relating to order inflow. You mentioned that the orders are lumpy, and it would have been from the customers, and the orders came together in Q2. But this INR 2,000 crore order, sir, if you can give some breakup from which sectors you have received large orders and what will be the execution period of this INR 2,000 crore order inflow for this quarter?
Sanjay Kirloskar: We normally don't give order inflow sector-wise. But we do give pending order. The order position, order book position
Raj Shah: Yes
Sanjay Kirloskar: we do give. The pending order book. So I think from there you will be able to see the way the different sectors have behaved. 12 of this investor presentation. Page 12.
Raj Shah: Yes, I am aware about the order book breakup, sir. Okay, fine. Last question, sir, was relating to the drought situation in the country. Multiple states, Gujarat, Maharashtra, even Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, Rajasthan, have announced drought in various of its districts. So as a business, from a broader perspective, how do you see this affecting our business? Or if you can also elaborate what quantum of our business is directly proportional to the rainfall?
Sanjay Kirloskar: Number one, if the states are going to do something, it is going to take some time, and water has to be there in order to be pumped. I would leave you with these two thoughts. Number one, it will be state-managed, and historically, we do not take orders from state governments. The state governments will have to place orders on EPC contractors, and by the time they are ready, we will be ready to quote to them. As far as smaller pumps are concerned, yes, I think the retail-side pumps will move going forward. Historically, Q3 for the company is a good quarter, and maybe with drought-like conditions, the requirement for small retail pumps would be good.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Manish Goel with Thinqwise Wealth Managers LLP. Please go ahead.
Manish Goyal: Yeah, thank you so much, sir. I have a few questions. One on the, if we probably look at standalone growth of 23%, and in the press release we have mentioned that small pumps have grown 12%. So a couple of questions around this. One is on this 12% growth in small pumps, how much would it be driven by the price hike, which we would have taken probably in, I think since January, I think in last call we had mentioned we had taken 10% price hike. So maybe in this H1, what would be the scenario? How much would be the volume growth? Also related question is that if total revenues have grown 23%, then it implies that your made-to-order and engineer-to-order would have grown much stronger. What could have driven that growth?
Manish Goyal: Because oil and gas has seen a sales jump of 5x as per press release, and is it completely driven by petrol pumps, some of the old orders which we had last year, which got carried forward, and maybe other areas which is driving this? Now with very strong order book on hand, do we expect that this execution momentum to continue in the H2 for us to probably do better on the double-digit growth guidance, what we have given? So that was one set of the question. Yeah.
Rama Kirloskar: Hello.
Manish Goyal: Hello.
Rama Kirloskar: Am I audible?
Manish Goyal: Yeah. Now, ma'am.
Rama Kirloskar: Yeah. We have seen a rise in both the volume and the value for that 12%. We do see strong growth because we do notice that other players in the market are having issues with supply due to various issues that happened earlier. Foundries were shutting down, the LPG shortage, change in wage code. I think that puts us at a good price point in the market today. We do believe that we are enhancing our market share.
Manish Goyal: Rama, can you just give us some broad perspective, how much would be volume growth and value growth?
Rama Kirloskar: You can say 50% because of value and the balance has come through volume. Yeah.
Manish Goyal: My other question was that, related in terms of the higher growth, what we are seeing, what would have driven growth in the customized pump segment, number one. Number two, despite logically that customized pump usually offers better margin to us, why is that not reflected in the margin improvement? Because sequentially, we are seeing the margin decline from 11.3% to 10%. What is driving this strong growth, and how do we see it going forward?
Rama Kirloskar: We are at a very unique time when we see both the retail business and the capital goods business doing well. Capital goods is mostly doing well because of all the geopolitical uncertainties happening, and therefore, we are seeing orders in oil and gas, in fertilizer. We have seen orders in power. That is one of the reasons why you are seeing a large order booking there. As far as the margins are concerned, it is a function also of the billed value, and we do have large consignments that are yet to go out. That is one of the reasons why the inventory is also bit high. We expect this to go out in the subsequent months, and that should contribute to both the inventory reduction as well as higher margins.
Manish Goyal: Yeah. In fact, I had a related question also that even in Q1, we had seen our inventory going up, and in H1, the balance sheet number also shows that working capital has increased significantly by roughly INR 225 crores in the standalone and INR 250 odd crores in consolidated. Because in Q1, I think you had mentioned that there were some spillover issues of the foundry modernization, and some orders were not dispatched. How is the-
Rama Kirloskar: Those orders have gone out. If you see now, a large part of the order book is because of the large capital goods sectors with long lead times. So they can be anywhere between 8 and 12 months. So in preparation to get dispatch those orders, we have to obviously buy a lot of the raw material and associated bought out components and start processing. So that is one of the reasons why you see high inventory there.
Manish Goyal: Okay. You expect that we should get probably liquidated in Q3 and Q4.
Rama Kirloskar: Manish, one more point. Most of that inventory now is in WIP, because obviously it is being processed to send out. Yeah.
Manish Goyal: Okay. In the press release, we have mentioned that in power sector, we have received orders from nuclear sector, 10 numbers of primary circuit and 57 numbers of canned motor pumps. What could be the value of these orders there? Because sequentially, the power order book has gone up from INR 600 to INR 700 crores. No doubt the execution would have also happened in the sector. What is the order value of this nuclear, and maybe if you can tell us that which nuclear project is it pertaining to? Also for nuclear, probably we were at final stage of getting approval for primary coolant pump. Is the testing over? Have you received the approval? When do we expect to deliver this development order?
Sanjay Kirloskar: The nuclear power plant orders are for canned motor pump and for primary side safety package that we have received. I think the value would be. Both the packages would be around INR 60 or INR 70 crores. I do not have the exact number. I am sorry.
Sanjay Kirloskar: But these are safety package and canned motor moderator pumps that we have been historically supplying. The good thing is it looks like pumps are starting to get ordered for nuclear power plants. I think there was a statement also, something came in the press that now some 32 pumps, primary coolant pumps, are going to be ordered by NPCIL. As far as we are concerned, the only thing that I said we had not achieved was the material test. I am happy to say that we have been able to also prove out that we meet all the material requirements, and therefore, we should be qualified to participate in the tender and hopefully get the orders.
Manish Goyal: Okay. How soon this tendering would start, sir? Any sense on that?
Sanjay Kirloskar: I think the tender has been issued. Decisions, I do not know how long it will take, because since it is coming after a long time, I am sure there will be pre-bid meetings which would be going on now.
Operator: Thank you so much, sir. Our next question comes from the line of Pratik Kothari with Unique PMS. Please go ahead.
Pratik Kothari: Hi, good afternoon. Sir, one question to Alok. So, this shift that we are attempting towards utilities and services, given what is happening on the petchem and the oil and gas side of things. So from your comment, this is only a delay, right? This is again no change in what you are intending to do and hence the reflection in margins, et cetera. This is purely a delay and no cancellations or no change in direction.
Alok Kirloskar: Yes. We already have the framework contract, as I mentioned, but it takes us some time to do the ground assessment, because what we normally do is we go through all the assets. Most of them are not our brand, they are some other brand.
Alok Kirloskar: We have to establish with the customer their state, whether they are in a decrepit state or they can be refurbished or repaired. Because finally we have to come to a budget, because it is normally a three-year or five-year contract, many of the water ones three-year contract. After we agree on those things, then we can start the contract. After we start the contract, then whatever we have agreed on for that year, we start working on. Be either it is a refurbishment, so we start bringing it into our service centers. If it is replacement, then we replace it. Whatever we have agreed to do. That is why I mentioned that it has taken a little longer for it to start, but it has started in this quarter onwards.
Alok Kirloskar: We expect it to probably, hopefully get a little bit more steam next quarter, because as those contracts come into effect, you start getting that change in mix.
Pratik Kothari: Correct. Also after a long while, we have seen very strong inflow again on the international side of business. Anything specific that is driving this?
Alok Kirloskar: I would say one is oil and gas has picked up again, and there are many projects that we have already in Qatar for North Field, NFPS, as well as we have generally in the Middle East with ADNOC. Also we have got the projects in Guyana for the upcoming fields that are going to be commissioned slowly over the next year or a year and a half, which is jobs like Camino. So, I would say that has picked it up a lot in terms of new opportunities. The other area we have seen a jump in is data centers. Even now, Europe data centers have started. In Portugal, there is Sines data center, which has now gone for expansion, as an example. It is Europe's largest data center. So I would say it is the pockets like these that are sort of giving the growth.
Alok Kirloskar: AMP8, which has started, but AMP8 is not yet giving that kind of number that you would see over here that would be noticeable as of now. We hope that AMP8 picks up because AMP8 is quite a big scheme and it is a five-year scheme, as I mentioned, which is the Asset Management Period 8 in the UK.
Pratik Kothari: Last clarification, you mentioned next year margins would come back. Again, just to clarify, this is absolute numbers that we are talking about, right? So percentage, for a while at least, we will not see the percentage coming back.
Alok Kirloskar: No, absolute numbers, probably similar if you go back to calendar year 2024 for UK or if you go by KBL year, then FY25 for SPP's numbers. I mean, more like the physical numbers, it will be comparable because we have slowly building up that pipeline. But as I mentioned, with the intake of oil and gas projects, which of course have lower margins as well as a higher ERD to execute those projects, the margin may not recover next year. Maybe we will probably see that more in the following year, if I were to make a forward projection. But it is difficult for me to make that exact projection right now because as you are aware, there are a lot of upcoming jobs coming up in petrochemicals and on midstream and upstream.
Alok Kirloskar: We would want to have those jobs because of the future spare parts that come from them.
Pratik Kothari: Correct. No, great. Thank you, and all the best. Thank you.
Alok Kirloskar: Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Prolin Nandu with Edelweiss Public Alternatives. Please go ahead.
Prolin Nandu: Yeah. Hi. Team, thank you for taking my question. Alok, my question is to you. On this UK business, even if I look at this quarter's numbers as well as the H1 numbers, the growth on the top line has been extremely strong. Right? You mentioned that this is coming despite the fact that the service element is not as strong as it was last year. So what is driving this strong growth? You have also mentioned the AMP contract is not yet in the numbers, plus some of the other water contracts are also in the numbers. In the past, you have also mentioned about this whole de-industrialization which is going to take place in UK as well. Right? So despite those things not in numbers, despite the headwinds of de-industrialization, we are seeing extremely strong growth in top line.
Prolin Nandu: Is it more the currency part or is it the actual like-to-like numbers are also very healthy? What is it that is driving such strong top-line growth?
Alok Kirloskar: I would say that the top-line growth, there is a currency factor, of course, but I would also say that you are seeing those coming in from the oil and gas division. The margin on the oil and gas division, as I said, were not so healthy. We see a lot of jobs coming in on oil and gas. We are executing those jobs. A lot of those jobs have come in from the US, like Louisiana. There are a lot of new oil fields in Louisiana. Gas fields in Louisiana, sorry, that have come into effect. Comp2 is a major example. Plaquemines is an example of that. We do see those coming in and the margins on those have been healthy, but they are nowhere close to the service side of the business and not even close to the water side of the business.
Alok Kirloskar: Those are big jobs, and like I mentioned, the spares and service revenues from those jobs later is what we are after. That is really what is driving it. There is a boom in the US in the gas field. There is a boom in Guyana in the oil and gas field. There are jobs also happening currently in Qatar, specifically North Field, NFPS, which is a North Field Production Sustainability field. As you know, L&T got Comp4, but SPP as a company has got Comp2, it has got Comp4, it has got Comp5. Comp2 and Comp5 are from, which is compression platform 2, 3, sorry, 2, 4, and 5 are out of that, 2 and 5 are with Saipem. We have got all of them because Comp1 and Comp3 did not have any pumps on it. They were just drilling platforms.
Alok Kirloskar: I would say that all these are areas that we see growth from, and that is where you are seeing that growth. Unfortunately, we do not see the margins at that level from that growth.
Prolin Nandu: Right. Alok, to understand this correctly, you are saying that this is more like the export which is happening from the UK subsequently to US, to Guyana, so on and so forth, right? Rather than domestic growth. Am I correct in that understanding?
Alok Kirloskar: Yes. Domestic growth is finished because at oil prices. At your electricity unit at INR 30 a unit, electricity price at INR 30 a unit, the domestic market is completely finished. There is no petchem, there is no petrochemical. As you saw, there is no new drilling happening. Jackdaw was recently given approval, but those are ready-made vessels that are being brought into the North Sea. So the UK economy from industrial side has nothing left.
Prolin Nandu: Right. What will happen locally in UK would come more from AMP8, right? Is that also understanding correct?
Alok Kirloskar: Yes. AMP8 would be the main domestic business. The other big domestic business that we have strength in the UK is industrial fire. The reason we see growth in industrial fire is because local production units are dying. Everything is being imported and you need warehousing. Huge amounts of warehouses are coming up everywhere. For now, importing material that at one time was made in the UK. That is why we see a boom in warehousing. All warehouses need fire pumps. I would say that that is really where we are seeing the boom from warehousing. We are seeing it in water.
Alok Kirloskar: I am sure all of you would have seen the letter from Jim Ratcliffe, who owns INEOS, that it is not possible to make chemicals in the UK and Europe anymore, at the price of power, mainly because of the price of renewable power. Based on that, the way they have priced overall power, most chemical industries will not survive anymore. I think he has given an open letter which, in fact, one of the investors forwarded to me. I am sure all of you are aware that is the condition of the industrial side in the UK.
Prolin Nandu: Sure. That is it, Alok, from my side. Thank you so much.
Alok Kirloskar: Thanks.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Saurabh Mehta with East Lane Capital LLP. Please go ahead.
Saurabh Mehta: Yeah. Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Wanted to understand on the nuclear power opportunity a little bit better. There will be a little bit of repetition, but still asking again. Sir, we have seen the tenders are out for 32 numbers of PCP for three plants. We have said we are technically approved. Could you just elaborate a little bit more on that? Do we have access to the test bed? What about our sourcing for the large casting for the primary coolant pump? I think that is a hurdle with other than one corporate or all others are facing. Some clarity on that. Some rough timeline on when the. What we read on the tender is the bids are supposed to open on 21 January 2027. Will this be the financial bid or the technical bid?
Saurabh Mehta: Lastly, how many orders, realistically, do we expect to win out of this? This is my first question, sir.
Sanjay Kirloskar: Okay. You have seen the tender, is it? Have you read the tender?
Saurabh Mehta: Sir, I have seen a few documents which NPCIL has uploaded regarding this, the motors, the PCP, and there are three things in that, the shields. I have seen that document.
Sanjay Kirloskar: Okay, because if you've seen the document, I think how the orders are going to be placed is also in there, which I would not like to disclose on an open call. But the test bed is going to be at NPCIL, I think, or BARC. One of the DAEs.
Saurabh Mehta: The Tarapur one?
Sanjay Kirloskar: Yeah, the Tarapur one. I think the first pump that they have got still hasn't been tested. I hope that doesn't come in the way of when the deliveries for this starts. The castings that you mentioned, yeah, we've gone past that. We've passed that test, and we found foundries who are capable of doing it, and we expect not to have a problem. I didn't know there was a date on which that financial bid or that technical bid was going to be open. I guess, as usual, it'll first be the technical bid so that all of us are brought on the same level, and then the financial bid would be opened.
Saurabh Mehta: Got it, sir. My second question is just a little bit more general and qualitative, wherein I feel we have added quite a bit of new segments, more attractive segments, which are less competitive, say, petrol pumps. Thermal has revived in a big way. Nuclear is upcoming. Also a strong order book. Should we be thinking of a 15% margin in the coming years, in probably one, two, three years, that that should be our aspiration to reach?
Sanjay Kirloskar: Your guess is as good as mine. I believe that there will be enough competition because everyone will be after these orders, and everything, if it gets bunched up, then hopefully there will be no capacity. If there is no capacity constraint, then the prices will be very competitive. Because again, over here, there will be a spare tail in the energy business, power business. Everyone would like to have a population in there which can generate spares for many years to come. Yeah, I think it depends on each one of us, how our operations are, how tight our operations are, how good the material cost, what happens with the material cost, because as you are aware, these pumps take a long time to be delivered. We will quote, obviously, all of us will quote appropriately, and we are not in business to make a loss.
Sanjay Kirloskar: How much the margins will be, I cannot say right now.
Saurabh Mehta: Got it, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot.
Operator: Thank you. Next question comes from the line of Bharat Sheth with Quest Investment Managers Private Limited. Please go ahead.
Bharat Sheth: Hi, sir. Thanks for the opportunity. Am I audible? Sir, good afternoon, sir. Can you give some color on the capital goods side? Which are the sector which is driving, without giving any numbers, in your fair opinion in next current time and over the next 12 months? If you can give some assessment which is driving our capital goods business.
Sanjay Kirloskar: Thermal power is driving it. I think as nuclear power will also, I think drive it into the future. Also, oil and gas will drive. You are talking domestically, right?
Bharat Sheth: Correct.
Sanjay Kirloskar: Yeah. I think anything related to infrastructure, whether it is water, whether it is our building boom that is taking place, that also does drive, industry drives.
Bharat Sheth: Now, sir, data center, can you? Hello?
Sanjay Kirloskar: Data centers, I think, are just about starting in India. Fortunately, because of our overseas presence, I think we will be able to offer the best products in India.
Bharat Sheth: Sir, coming back to, again, in data center, since we have approval for this nuclear power, so how we see that there is a lot of talks are going on for SMR Power for data center in US. Do we have anything to play over there in SMR side, small modular reactor?
Sanjay Kirloskar: I think last time also I mentioned, there are basically two small modular reactors available that are running in the world. One is in the Arctic Ocean on a barge in Russia. I think China has just commissioned one. GE Westinghouse has made some, but I don't think they will be available till 2033. There are many American startups that are trying to supply their SMRs, but currently they're all just PowerPoint presentations. I don't think anyone has one. There was one company called NuScale that has gone bankrupt. There was another company called Holtec, which the last thing I heard about them was their IPO got delayed. I know that DAE is also working on one, and I believe that DAE will be able to also have their SMR ready in the same timeframe.
Bharat Sheth: Okay. Sir, and this question is for Alok. Alok, when we want to, over a medium-term, say 3 years timeframe, how do we see the service business contribution overall that we are expecting, the kind of a framework contract we have?
Alok Kirloskar: Over a 3-year cycle, we are expecting that for KBI BV level, we should get up to about 40% of our total business.
Bharat Sheth: And current
Alok Kirloskar: That is our target.
Bharat Sheth: Currently, how much?
Alok Kirloskar: Currently, we have never given a KBI BV level, but at SPP level it is about 35%, SPP UK level. We want it to be 40% at KBI BV level. That is where we are trying to get it to. In 3 years.
Bharat Sheth: Okay. Which are other sectors that we are seeing from UK business that will drive over, apart from oil and gas?
Alok Kirloskar: We are seeing data centers. We are seeing more and more traction in data centers. We have got more approvals with the operators, but also now slowly with the private equities like Brookfield and others who we have approached to speak with. I think that we have more opportunities in data centers. That would be one area. The other area that we see is water supply. We are getting more traction also on water supply, both in the Middle East. Of course, UK is the AMP8, but also in the Middle East and also in Benelux, which is Belgium, Luxembourg, and Netherlands. We are seeing a lot of traction there with Vitens, De Watergroep, Dunea, which are large water companies. We even signed a service agreement with Vitens.
Alok Kirloskar: That is a good way for us to start building that same kind of relationship like we have in the UK, in the Benelux region. To answer your question, I would say data centers, water, and service are 3 areas that we see that we can have more traction in. On the industrial side, in Europe, we are looking at all the new technologies in industrial, including things like green steel. As you might know, Stegra Green Steel.
Alok Kirloskar: has our pumps in it, because we had the first-mover advantage and our technology was well-suited for that. We believe that in these new technologies, we have a good chance, and that's where we're positioning ourselves, so that we're not competing down at the bottom, but really on premium at the top.
Bharat Sheth: How big is this fire pump market?
Alok Kirloskar: The fire pump market, at a worldwide level, is probably close to half a billion dollars. It's a large market, but also it's a competitive market because in some segments, you have FM/UL, Factory Mutual Underwriters Laboratories, and over time we're seeing that a lot of Chinese companies are just getting the accreditation. A lot of customers, not the top-end customers, but probably the bottom-end customers, are accepting
Alok Kirloskar: any company or any product that just has the accreditation because FM/UL has stamped it. They only need it for insurance purpose, so they accept the cheapest. We do see that it's getting commoditized at that level because people are just saying, "Oh, if the stamp is there, then it's fine." We have been talking to FM/UL as well to say that they really need to audit not just the plant, but also the sites. Because very often it's our opinion that a lot of the pumps are not working to what it was accredited for when it left the plant, for some companies. Given that FM is an insurance company, it's also in their interest for them to review that. I would say that it's a big market, but slowly with FM especially, it's getting commoditized.
Bharat Sheth: Thanks for the detailed answer.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Shyam Maheshwari with Aditya Birla Sun Life. Please go ahead.
Shyam Maheshwari: Yeah. Hi, team. Congratulations on a very strong top line and robust order inflow. I had a couple of questions. Firstly, on the standalone side, what we have seen is some sort of gross margin compression and while the team has alluded it to a sales mix. Wanted to a little bit more light on what is it referring to. Is it that maybe few of the legacy contracts at earlier prices got executed this quarter and maybe the newer contracts that we have won would now be at higher sort of pricing, with the commodity price inflation? And that should then normalize over the next few quarters. How should we think of gross margins, particularly on the standalone side? And if there is any major differential between the small pumps and the engineering margin mix that came in this quarter.
Sanjay Kirloskar: No. So I explained it. It is the rise in commodity prices that has done it, and it is nothing to do with any legacy orders having been executed during this quarter. It will normalize going forward. And there is not much that way difference between small pumps and the other pumps.
Shyam Maheshwari: Okay. So they are at comparable margins.
Sanjay Kirloskar: There is no change in the composition of the turnover, which would change the gross margin.
Shyam Maheshwari: Interesting. And with the pricing benefits that we are now taking in, that should normalize going ahead. Okay. Understood, sir. Sir, secondly, on the order inflow and the very robust inflows touching about 2,000 odd crores for the first time, so congrats on that. Just wanted a little bit understanding whether there were any couple of large orders that led to this and, is this sort of inflow now sustainable? Are you seeing enough pipeline of order inflow as well, going ahead as well?
Sanjay Kirloskar: There was no such single large order. Nothing material as it is defined. These are many orders of smaller size that have been received, like I said a little earlier. Some should have come in in the previous quarter. We do not recognize orders until the commercial terms are to our satisfaction. Therefore, while customers do place orders on us, we do not recognize orders until everything is as we want the orders to be like, the commercial terms and the price. Yeah, that's what it is.
Shyam Maheshwari: Got it. Thank you, sir. One question for Alok as well. On the SPP side, our earlier guidance was maybe margins normalizing in the H2 of this year. Considering the strong product pull-through that we are currently seeing, maybe that gets delayed by a couple of quarters. From a trajectory perspective, do you still think H2 would be materially better than H1? Are we going to see that trajectory actually playing out in this year itself, or maybe that is also kind of pushed out to the next year?
Alok Kirloskar: I think that it will be better than H1. When you say materially, I do not know what you mean by that, but definitely noticeably it should be better than H1.
Shyam Maheshwari: Understood. Perfect. Thanks a lot, team, and best of luck.
Sanjay Kirloskar: Thank you.
Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from the line of Mohit Surana with Monarch Networth Capital. Please go ahead.
Mohit Surana: Thank you for the opportunity. Am I audible?
Sanjay Kirloskar: Yeah, you are.
Mohit Surana: Perfect. So much is to Alok. Just one on data center. In the last earnings call, you informed that there could be some opportunity for us with a large data center contracted in the US.
Sanjay Kirloskar: We can't hear you very well. Sorry.
Mohit Surana: Yes. Am I audible now?
Sanjay Kirloskar: Yeah, much better.
Mohit Surana: Perfect. My question is to Alok Kirloskar. In the last earnings call, we were informed that there could be some significant order coming our way through some collaboration with a large data center EPC operator in the US, and it could be a significant order. Sir, any update or color on that? I think that will be really helpful.
Alok Kirloskar: Yeah, we are signing the framework for that. Once we sign, maybe I can disclose who it is, but until then, I can't disclose who they are. Yes, we do expect to see it is not a single job, but it is many jobs because then we will be the primary supplier to them for all their data centers, and they're one of the large operators. That's the thing what I'd mentioned. We are in the process of progressing our framework agreement with them for-
Mohit Surana: Sir, any timeline you can share?
Alok Kirloskar: Sorry?
Mohit Surana: Any timeline you can share by when this framework agreement can be signed?
Alok Kirloskar: No. It has taken us also a long time, so I do not want to share a timeline that is not really in our control because, being a very large operator, sometimes they put very stringent conditions, and we are in discussion and negotiation on many of those conditions because while the business is quite large, at the same time, we want to ensure that we are not doing anything too risky.
Mohit Surana: Understood. That is helpful. My questions have already been answered, so thank you and all the best.
Alok Kirloskar: Thank you.
Operator: Thank you so much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, due to the time constraint, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Bhavesh Chheda for closing comments. Thank you, and over to you, sir.
Bhavesh Chheda: We thank everyone for joining the call today. We hope we have been able to give you a detailed overview of our business and also answer your queries. Should you have any further queries or transaction, please feel free to reach out to SGA, our investor relations advisor. I would like to end wishing you a very happy Diwali and prosperous new year. Thank you very much.
Operator: Thank you so much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Kirloskar Brothers Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.
Sanjay Kirloskar: Yeah.
