Q3 2025 Westwood Holdings Group Inc Earnings Call

Thank you for standing by and welcome to Westwood Holdings Group's third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. At this time, all participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker presentation, there will be a question-and-answer session. To ask a question during the session, you will need to press *1, 1 on your telephone to remove yourself from the queue. You may press *1, 1 again to return to the queue. I would now like to hand the call over to Jill Meyer, Chief Legal Counsel. Please go ahead.

Operator: Additional information concerning the factors that could cause such a difference is included in our press release issued earlier today, as well as in our Form 10-Q for the quarter ended September 30, 2025, that will be filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements. In addition, in accordance with SEC rules concerning non-GAAP financial measures, the reconciliation of our economic earnings and economic earnings per share to the most comparable GAAP measures is included at the end of our press release issued earlier today. On the call today, we have Brian Casey, our Chief Executive Officer, and Terry Forbes, our Chief Financial Officer. I will now turn the call over to Brian Casey.

Thank you and welcome to our third quarter 2025 earnings conference call. The following discussion will include forward-looking statements that are subject to known and unknown risks, uncertainties, and other factors which may cause actual results to be materially different from those contemplated by the forward-looking statements. Additional information concerning the factors that could cause such a difference is included in our press release issued earlier today, as well as in our Form 10-Q for the quarter ended September 30, 2025, that will be filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. We undertake no obligation to publicly update or revise any forward-looking statements, whether as a result of new information, future events, or otherwise. You are cautioned not to place undue reliance on forward-looking statements.

In addition, in accordance with SEC rules concerning non-gaap Financial measures. The reconciliation of our economic earnings and economic earnings per share to the most comparable. Gaap measures is included at the end of our press release issued earlier today.

Operator: Good afternoon, and thank you for joining us for Westwood Holdings Group Inc.'s Q3 2025 earnings call. I'm pleased to share this quarter's results and key developments, as well as our outlook for the remainder of the year. Before we dive into the details, I'd like to highlight several key points from the quarter. Our Enhanced Midstream Income ETF, MDST, surpassed $150 million in AUM. We recorded positive net flows in energy and real assets. Our private fundraising continues to exceed our annual goal by a significant margin. WEBS launched 11 new sector ETFs. Income Opportunity maintained its top decile since inception ranking and earned a Morningstar ratings upgrade to four stars. We've all witnessed a broad market rally this quarter, driven by sustained enthusiasm for artificial intelligence, strong corporate earnings, and a pivotal interest rate cut by the Federal Reserve.

I’ll turn the call over to Brian Casey.

Good afternoon and thank you for joining us for Westwood's third quarter 2025 earnings call.

I'm pleased to share this quarter's results and key developments, as well as our outlook for the remainder of the year.

Before we dive into the details, I'd like to highlight several key points from the quarter.

All right, enhanced Midstream income. ETF mdst. Surpassed 150 million in AUM.

We recorded positive, net flows in energy, and real assets.

Our private fundraising continues to exceed, our annual goal by a significant margin.

Webs launched 11 new sector ETFs.

Income opportunity maintained its top decile since inception ranking and earned a Morningstar rating, upgraded to 4 stars.

We've all witnessed a broad Market rally this quarter driven by sustained enthusiasm for artificial intelligence.

Strong corporate earnings.

Operator: Strength in cyclical areas like industrials and consumer discretionary all pointed to widespread confidence in economic growth. However, large-cap gains remain highly concentrated in a handful of mega-cap stocks. For small caps, the long-awaited rotation of leadership from large-cap giants to smaller companies finally showed up, and once the Fed cuts rates in September, the bond market responded by sending Treasury yields lower. High-yield and corporate credit outperformed government bonds as recession fears eased, and gold broke through $4,000, given the prospect of lower real yields and global U.S. dollar weakness. Turning to our long-term performance, our investment professionals delivered solid results across multiple strategies and asset classes. In our U.S. value strategies, our mid-cap strategy continues to post strong rankings and is firmly positioned in the top third over trailing three-year periods. Our multi-asset strategies continue to deliver compelling results.

And pivotal interest rate cut by the Federal Reserve.

Strengthened cyclical areas like Industrials and consumer discretionary all pointed to widespread confidence in economic growth. However, large cap gains remain highly concentrated in a handful of Mega cap stocks,

For small caps, the long-awaited rotation of leadership from large cap, Giants to smaller, companies finally showed up. And once the FED Cuts rates in September, the bond market responded by sending treasury yields lower.

High yield and corporate credit outperformed, government bonds as recession, fears, eased, and gold broke through 000 given the prospect of lower real yields and Global US dollar weakness.

Turning to our long-term performance, our investment professionals delivered solid results across multiple strategies and asset classes.

And our us value. Strategies are smid cap, strategy continues to post strong rankings and is firmly positioned in the top third, over trailing for a year periods.

Operator: Our Income Opportunity and Multi Asset Income funds achieved top third rankings for the trailing three-year period and top half over the trailing five-year period in the Morningstar universe. Our Income Opportunity fund, WHGIX, also recently received a Morningstar ratings upgrade to four stars. Within our Salient strategies, our energy products continue to perform very well. Our MLP Separately Managed Account Strategy remains ahead of the Elyrian midstream index across trailing three-year and five-year periods. Enhanced Midstream Income, MDST, and Enhanced Energy Income, WEEI, have delivered solid yields to income-focused investors, with MDST maintaining an annualized indicated dividend yield exceeding 10%, while WEEI has an indicated dividend yield of over 13%. As seasoned value investors, we seek to unlock opportunities in mispriced, misunderstood, and often less popular names. In times like these, fundamentals are often brushed aside, allowing for emotion and momentum to dominate.

Our multi-asset strategies continue to deliver compelling results. Our income opportunity and multi-asset income funds. Achieve top third rankings for the trailing 3-year period and top half over the trailing. 5-year period in the Morning Star universe.

Our income opportunity fund, W HGX, recently received a Morningstar ratings upgrade to 4 stars.

Within our Salient, strategies our Energy Products, continue to perform very well.

Our MLP SMA strategy remains ahead of the Yin Midstream Index across trailing 3-year and 5-year periods.

Enhance Midstream income mdst and enhanced energy income WEEI, have delivered solid yields to income focused investors with mdst. Maintaining an annualized indicated dividend yield exceeding 10%.

while WEEI has an indicated dividend yield of over 13%,

As seasoned value investors, we seek to unlock opportunities in mispriced misunderstood and often less popular names.

Operator: As students of market history know, this stage of the current market cycle typically precedes periods when quality and value regain momentum. On balance, we remain cautiously optimistic. With below-trend growth, sticky inflation, and elevated market valuations concentrated in a handful of mega-cap tech stocks, we believe that investment opportunities are shifting. Undervalued segments, especially small-cap stocks and the broader value style, are beginning to look more attractive. As markets evolve and investors rotate away from the most expensive segments, our focus on high-quality businesses with attractive relative valuations positions us well. Quality and attractive relative value have consistently outperformed across market cycles, and we fully expect this dynamic to reassert itself as the market environment matures. Our distribution channels delivered impressive results in Q3, building on the momentum we've established throughout the year.

In times, like these fundamentals are often brushed aside allowing for a motion and momentum to dominate. But as students of Market history, know this stage of the current market cycle typically precedes periods when quality and value regain momentum.

On balance. We remain cautiously optimistic with below Trend, growth sticky inflation and elevated Market valuations concentrated in a handful of Mega cap tech stocks.

We believe that investment opportunities are shifting.

Undervalued segments, especially small-cap stocks and the broader value style.

Are beginning to look more attractive.

as markets evolve and investors rotate away from the most expensive segments, our focus on high-quality businesses with attractive relative valuations, positions us well

Quality and attractive relative value. Have consistently outperformed across Market cycles and will be fully expect this Dynamic to reassert itself as the market environment matures.

Operator: Year-to-date net sales through September 30 improved versus last year by 17% and by 57% versus 2023. Our intermediary and institutional channels have contributed equally to this performance. Our institutional channel had negative net flows this quarter, primarily driven by sub-advisory business rebalancing. Our pipeline remains robust across value and energy strategies, with several new opportunities added during the quarter. Looking ahead in the institutional space, we anticipate winning more mandates in mid-cap for defined contribution plans, supported by the largest national consultants. We continue to have constructive meetings regarding our Managed Investment Solutions capability, and there's continued interest in our energy offerings for both public and private strategies. We anticipate continued stability with our existing clients as we expand our presence with public plans, OCIOs, and single multifamily offices.

Our distribution channels, delivered impressive results in the third quarter building on the momentum, we've established throughout the year.

Year to date, net sales through September 30 improved versus last year by 17% and by 57% versus 2023.

Our intermediary and institutional channels have contributed equally to this performance.

Our institutional channel had negative net flows this quarter, primarily driven by sub-advisory business rebalancing.

Our pipeline remains robust value and energy strategies with several New Opportunities added during the quarter.

Looking ahead in the institutional space, we anticipate winning more mandates and smid cap for defined contribution plans.

Supported by the largest national consultants.

Capability, and there's continued interest in our energy offerings for both public and private strategies.

Operator: The intermediary channel had particular success with our private fundraising initiative, which has so far exceeded our 2025 annual goal by 1.5 times through September 30. Our private funds have earned approval on several broker-dealer platforms, further expanding our distribution capabilities. Our energy and real asset strategies continue to lead Westwood in both gross and net sales in 2025, and our Enhanced Midstream Income ETF, MDST, continues to gain approvals from major national platforms. Putting it all together, the tailwinds in energy, combined with the breadth of Westwood offerings, are appealing to intermediary clients, particularly in the family office and RIA space. Our well-rounded offerings within the multi-asset and tactical suite of products are well-positioned to ride out equity market volatility. Our Wealth Management business is on track to meet our client retention goals for the calendar year.

We anticipate continued stability with our existing clients. As we expand our presence with public plans, OSHIOs, and single multi-family offices,

the intermediary Channel had particular success with our private fundraising initiative, which has so far exceeded our 2025 annual goal by 1.5 times through September 30th,

And our private funds have earned approval on several broker. Dealer platforms further, expanding our distribution capabilities.

Our energy and real asset strategies continue to lead Westwood in both growth and net sales of 2025 and our enhancement stream income, ETF mbst continues to gain approvals for major national platforms.

Putting it all together the tailwind and energy combined with the breadth of Westwood offerings are appealing to intermediary clients, particularly in the family office and Riya space.

Our well-rounded offerings within the multi-asset and tactical Suite of products are, well, positioned to ride out Equity Market volatility.

Operator: We've reduced costs versus last year, and this trend will continue throughout the rest of the year. The operational efficiencies we're building will underpin early wins in 2026, and we're continuing to evaluate the best path to enhance our services as we move into 2026. Beyond our core business performance, several transformative initiatives and milestones demonstrate our continued commitment to innovation and strategic growth. Our ETF platform expansion. Our MDST ETF reached a significant milestone, surpassing $150 million in assets under management. MDST was the second-best-selling fund compared to peer midstream funds in September, accounting for approximately 30% of midstream product ETF flows. Since inception, MDST has consistently delivered on its objective to provide a steady stream of monthly income with an annualized distribution rate exceeding 10%. The fund's rapid growth and enthusiastic investor engagement underscore the increasing demand for innovative income-generating strategies in today's evolving market environment. WEBS Innovation.

Our wealth management business is on track to meet our client retention goals for the calendar year. We've reduced costs versus last year and this trend will continue throughout the rest of the year.

The operational efficiencies were building will underpin early wins in 2026 and were continuing to evaluate the best path to enhance our services.

We move into 2026.

Beyond our Core Business performance. Several transformative initiatives and Milestones demonstrate our continued commitment to Innovation and strategic growth.

Our ETF platform expansion.

Our mdst ETF reached a significant Milestone surpassing 150 million in assets under management. Mdst was the second best-selling fund compared to Pure Midstream funds in September accounting for approximately 30% of Midstream product ETF flows.

since Inception mdst has consistently delivered on its objective to provide a steady stream of monthly income with an annualized distribution rate exceeding, 10%,

Operator: Westwood and WEBS Investments launched 11 new sector funds during the quarter. The new WEBS Defined Volatility Sector ETFs are a suite of 11 funds which apply the defined volatility strategy to individual sectors within the S&P 500. By expanding this suite, we can offer investors more precise control over risk and sector exposure using a transparent framework that adjusts portfolio exposure based on real-time market volatility. Each fund tracks a defined volatility index created by Syntax, with each index providing investment exposure to an underlying Select Sector SPDR ETF. The WEBS flagship ETFs, DVSP and DVQQ, which launched late last year, demonstrated the effectiveness of a volatility-managed approach this past quarter. These ETFs also implement a rules-based strategy of volatility-adjusted exposure, adding market exposure when volatility is low and reducing market exposure when volatility is high.

The funds rapid growth and enthusiastic investor engagement underscore that increasing demand for Innovative income generating strategies in today's evolving Market environment.

Webs, Innovation Westwood and Webs Investments launched 11 new sector funds during the quarter.

The new webs defined volatility sector ETFs a suite of 11 funds which applied to Define volatility strategy to individual sectors within the S&P 500.

By expanding this Suite, we can offer investors more precise control over risk and sector exposure using a transparent framework that adjusts portfolio exposure based on real time Market volatility.

Each fund tracks. A defined volatility index created by syntax with each index providing investment exposure to an underlying select sector spider ETF.

The web's flagship ETFs, DVSSP and DVQ, which launched late last year, demonstrated the effectiveness of a volatility-managed approach this past quarter.

Operator: After underperforming their underlying ETFs, SPY and QQQ, during a very choppy first half that experienced elevated market volatility, our defined volatility approach really proved its worth this quarter. As volatility calmed down, DVSP outperformed SPY by 636 basis points, and DVQQ outperformed the QQQ by 726 basis points. In summary, we remain confident in our strategic positioning and the value we provide to our clients. Our year-to-date performance demonstrates meaningful progress, with net sales improving. Our diversified platform, spanning traditional value strategies, innovative ETF products, energy and real asset solutions, custom index solutions, private investments, and Wealth Management Services, positions us to take advantage quickly of evolving market dynamics. With strong long-term performance rankings across our multi-asset and energy strategies, growing momentum in both institutional and intermediary channels, and innovative new products gaining marketplace traction, we believe Westwood is well-positioned to deliver value to our clients and shareholders.

These ETFs also Implement a rules-based strategy of volatility adjusted exposure adding Market exposure. When volatility is low and reducing Market exposure. When volatility is high,

After underperforming their underlying ETFs spy and triple Q during a very choppy. First half that experienced elevated. Market volatility are defined volatility approached really proved its worth this quarter as volatility calmed down dbsp. Outperformed spy by 636 basis points.

And DBQ Q outperformed. The triple Q by 726 basis points.

In summary, we remain confident.

Strategic position.

And the value, we provide to our clients.

Our year-to-date performance demonstrates meaningful progress with net sales. Improving our Diversified platform spanning traditional value. Strategies Innovative ETF, products energy and real asset Solutions. Custom index Solutions, private Investments and Wealth Management Services positions us to take advantage quickly of evolving market dynamics.

Operator: Thank you for your continued support and confidence in Westwood. I will now turn the call over to CFO Terry Forbes. Thanks, Brian, and good afternoon, everyone. Today, we reported total revenues of $24.3 million for Q3 of 2025, compared to $23.1 million in Q2 and $23.7 million in the prior year's Q3. Revenues were higher than both periods due to higher average assets under management. Our Q3 income of $3.7 million, or $0.41 per share, compared with $1 million, or $0.12 per share in Q2, on higher revenues and unrealized appreciation on private investments, partially offset by higher income taxes. Non-GAAP economic earnings were $5.7 million, or $0.64 per share in the current quarter versus $2.8 million, or $0.32 per share in Q2.

With strong long-term performance rankings across our multi-asset and energy strategies, growing momentum in both institutional and intermediary channels, and innovative new products gaining marketplace traction, we believe Westwood is well positioned to deliver value to our clients and shareholders.

On the call over, to CFO Terry Forbes.

Thanks, Brian, and good afternoon, everyone. Today, we reported total revenues of $24.3 million for the third quarter of 2025, compared to $23.1 million in the second quarter and $23.7 million in the prior year.

Revenues were higher than in both periods due to higher average assets under management.

Our third quarter income of 3.7 million or 41 cents per share, compared with 1 million or 12 cents per share in the second quarter on higher revenues and unrealized appreciation on private Investments, partially offset by higher income taxes.

Operator: Our Q3 income of $3.7 million, or $0.41 per share, compared favorably to last year's Q3 income of $0.1 million due to 2025's higher revenues and unrealized appreciation on private investments and changes in the fair value of contingent consideration in 2024, all partially offset by higher income taxes in 2025. Economic earnings for the quarter were $5.7 million, or $0.64 per share, compared with $1.1 million, or $0.13 per share in Q3 of 2024. Firm-wide assets under management and advisement totaled $18.3 billion at quarter end, consisting of assets under management of $17.3 billion and assets under advisement of $1 billion. Assets under management consisted of institutional assets of $9 billion, or 52% of the total, wealth management assets of $4.3 billion, or 25% of the total, and mutual fund and ETF assets of $4 billion, or 23% of the total.

Non-gaap economic earnings were 5.7 million or 64 cents per share in the current quarter versus 2.8 million or 32 cents per share in the second quarter.

Our third quarter income of $3.7 million, or 41 cents per share, compared favorably to last year's third quarter income of $0.1 million, due to higher revenues in 2025, unrealized appreciation on private investments, and changes in the fair value of contingent consideration. In 2024, all this was partially offset by higher income taxes in 2025.

Economic earnings for the quarter, were 5.7 million or 64 cents per share, compared with 1.1 million or 13 cents per share in the third quarter of 2024.

Firmwide assets under management and advisement totaled 18.3 billion at quarter end, consisting of assets under management of 17.3 billion and assets under advisement of 1 billion.

Operator: Over the quarter, our assets under management experienced net outflows of $0.7 billion and market appreciation of $0.7 billion, and our assets under advisement experienced market appreciation of $30 million and net outflows of $3 million. Our financial position continues to be solid, with cash and liquid investments at quarter end totaling $39.2 million and a debt-free balance sheet. Happy to announce that our Board of Directors approved a regular cash dividend of $0.15 per common share, payable on January 2, 2026, to stockholders of record on December 1, 2025. That brings our prepared comments to a close. We encourage you to review our investor presentation we have posted on our website, reflecting quarterly highlights, as well as a discussion of our business, product development, and longer-term trends in revenues and earnings. We thank you for your interest in our company, and we'll open the line to questions. Thank you.

Assets under management consisted of institutional assets of 9 billion or 52% of the total wealth management, assets of 4.3 billion or 25% of the total and mutual fund and ETF assets of 4 billion or 23% of the total.

Over the quarter, our assets under management experienced net outflows of $0.7 billion and market appreciation of $0.7 billion. Our assets under advisement experienced market appreciation of $30 million and net outflows of $3 million.

Our financial position continues to be solid with cash and liquid Investments at quarter end, totaling 39.2 million, and a debt-free balance sheet.

happy to announce that our board of directors approved, a regular cash dividend to 15 cents per common, share payable, on January 2nd, 2026 to stockholders of record on December 1st 2025,

That brings our prepared comments to a close. We encourage you to review our investor presentation, which we have posted on our website. It reflects quarterly highlights as well as a discussion of our business product development and longer-term trends in revenues and earnings. We thank you for your interest in our company, and we'll open the line to questions.

Operator: As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press *11 on your telephone. To remove yourself from the queue, you may press *11 again. Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster. Our first question comes from the line of Macrae Sykes of GAMCO. Your line is open, Macrae. Oh, good afternoon, gentlemen, and congratulations on the ETF success. That was where my question is. If you could just talk about how you're leaning into the success to leverage it further at this point. It seems like you're accelerating your inflows. What are you doing to make that even more fruitful? Is there any capacity constraint with respect to the capital coming in and investing it? Good afternoon, Mac. Thanks for your question. Yeah, we have worked really hard to grow our ETF business, and we've done it through a lot of the traditional channels.

Thank you. As a reminder, to ask a question, you will need to press *1, 1 on your telephone to remove yourself from the queue. You may press *1, 1 again.

Please stand by while we compile the Q&A roster.

Our first question comes from the line of McCrae Sykes of GAMCO. Your line is open, McCrae.

Oh, good afternoon, gentlemen and congratulations uh, on the ETF success. Uh, that was where my question is. Um, if you could just talk about, you know, how you're leaning into into the success, uh, to leverage it further. At this point, it seems like you're accelerating your inflows. Uh, so what are you doing to to make that even more fruitful? And is there any capacity constraint with respect to, you know, the capital coming in and investing it.

Operator: As you know, each of the various platforms have different thresholds that you have to meet in order to get your ETF onto the platform. Some of them have fairly low bars where you need $25 million in assets and a certain number of shares traded per day. Some have very high bars with a high level of assets and a lot of shares traded per day. We have been doing it that way. Our distribution team is out calling on both RIAs and the platforms. We have had some success there, and I'm really pleased to report that we are very close to gaining access to one of the largest wirehouse platforms in the world. We've worked really hard to get there, and we feel confident that that will happen over the next month or two. Thank you. Thank you.

Good afternoon, M. Thanks for your question. Yeah, so we have worked really hard to grow our ETF business and we've done it uh through a lot of the traditional channels. And as you know each of the various platforms, have different thresholds that you have to meet in order to uh get your ETF on on to the platform. And some of them uh have fairly low bars, where you need 25 million in Assets, in a certain number of uh shares traded per day and some have very high bars with a high level of assets and a lot of shares traded per day. Um, so we've been doing it that way and we've got, of course, our distribution team is out calling on both raas and the platforms. So we've had some success there and I'm really pleased to report that we are very close to, uh, gaining access to 1 of the largest wirehouse platforms, uh, in the world. And we've worked really hard to get there and and we feel, uh,

Month or 2.

Thank you.

Operator: I would now like to turn the conference back to Brian Casey for closing remarks. Sir. All righty. Thanks, everyone, for listening to our call today. Certainly, the outflows this quarter were disappointing, but fortunately concentrated in our large-cap area, which is our lowest-fee product. Our pipeline for new business remains very strong at $1.6 billion. We have a won-but-not-yet-funded mandate of close to $450 million for our mid-cap product. Our private fundraising is going exceptionally well, and we'll have more to report to you early next year. We continue to look for opportunities to launch ETFs that are income-focused and leverage our broad investment capabilities. Performance for our MIS client in a real assets and infrastructure product has been excellent. Our prospect list has really grown, and we feel really close to landing our first institutional client.

Thank you. I would now like to turn the conference back to Brian Casey for closing remarks. Sir.

Alrighty well thanks everyone for listening to our call today. Uh certainly the outflows this quarter were disappointing but fortunately concentrated in our large cap area which is uh our lowest fee product.

Our pipeline for new business remains very strong at 1.6 billion. Uh we have a 1 but not yet funded Mandate of close to 450 million. For our smid cap product, our private fundraising is going exceptionally well and we'll have more to report to you early next year.

And we continue to look for opportunities to launch ETFs that are Income focused and leverage, our broad investment capabilities.

And performance for our MIS client.

Operator: In closing, I do want to acknowledge the passing of our dear friend and colleague, Rolonda Williams. Rolonda joined Westwood 26 years ago as our receptionist. Through her unwavering dedication, sharp intellect, and warm spirit, she rose to lead support for our sub-advisory client business. Her journey was a testament to her strength, resilience, and commitment to excellence. Rolonda was really more than a colleague. She was a force. Her presence lit up every room. Her laughter was contagious, and her kindness touched everyone who had the privilege of knowing her. She was deeply loved, and her legacy will live on in the hearts of all of us at Westwood. We extend our heartfelt condolences to her family and loved ones. Rolonda will be profoundly missed but never forgotten. Thanks for listening to our call today. Please reach out to me or Terry if you need anything.

In our real assets and infrastructure product, we have seen excellent performance. Our prospect list has really grown, and we feel we are very close to landing our first institutional client.

And then, in closing, I do want to acknowledge the passing of our dear friend and colleague, Rolando Williams.

Rolanda joined Westwood, 26 years ago, as our receptionist and through her unwavering dedication, sharp intellect, and warm Spirit, she Rose to lead support for our sub advisory client business, and her journey was a testament to her strength resilience and commitment to Excellence in Rolanda, was really more than a colleague. She was a force, uh, her presence lit up. Every room, her laughter was contagious and her kindness touched everyone who had the privilege of knowing her. She was deeply loved and her Legacy will live on and the hearts of all of us at Westwood and we extend our heartfelt condolences to her family and loved ones.

Rolando will be profoundly missed, but never forgotten.

Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for participating. You may now disconnect.

Thanks for listening to our call today. Please reach out to me or Terry if you need anything.

This concludes today's conference call, thank you for participating. You may now disconnect