Q2 2026 PennantPark Investment Corp Earnings Call

May 8, 2026

Operator: Good afternoon, and welcome to the PennantPark Investment Corporation's Q2 2026 Earnings Conference Call. Today's conference is being recorded. At this time, all participants have been placed in a listen-only mode. The call will be open for a question-and-answer session following the speakers' remarks.

Speaker #3: The call will be open for a question-and-answer session following the speaker's remarks. If you'd like to ask a question at that time, simply press *1 on your telephone keypad.

Operator: If you'd like to ask a question at that time, simply press star one on your telephone keypad. If you would like to withdraw your question, press star two on your telephone keypad. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Art Penn, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of PennantPark Investment Corporation. Mr. Penn, you may begin your conference.

Speaker #3: If you would like to withdraw your question, press *2 on your telephone keypad. It is now my pleasure to turn the call over to Mr. Art Penn, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer of PennantPark Investment Corporation.

Speaker #3: Mr. Penn, you may begin your conference.

Speaker #2: Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for joining PennantPark Investment Corporation's second fiscal quarter 2026 earnings call. I'm joined today by Jose Briones, Senior Partner at PennantPark. Ric Allorto, our CFO, is unable to be with us today due to a prior commitment.

Art Penn: Good afternoon, everyone, thank you for joining PennantPark Investment Corporation's Q2 2026 Earnings Call. I'm joined today by Jose Briones, Senior Partner at PennantPark. Richard Allorto, our CFO, is unable to be with us today due to a prior commitment. Jose, please start off by disclosing some general conference call information and include a discussion about forward-looking statements.

Speaker #2: Jose, please start off by disclosing some general conference call information and include a discussion about forward-looking statements.

Speaker #3: Thank you, Art. I'd like to remind everyone that today's call is being recorded and is the property of PennantPark Investment Corporation. Any unauthorized broadcast of this call, in any form, is strictly prohibited.

Jose Briones: Thank you, Art. I'd like to remind everyone that today's call is being recorded and is the property of PennantPark Investment Corporation. Any unauthorized broadcast of this call in any form is strictly prohibited. An audio replay of the call will be available on our website. I'd also like to call your attention to the customary safe harbor disclosure in our press release regarding forward-looking information. Our remarks today may include forward-looking statements and projections. Please refer to our most recent SEC filings for important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these projections. We do not undertake to update our forward-looking statements unless required by law. To obtain copies of our latest SEC filings, please visit our website at pennantpark.com or call us at 212-905-1000.

Speaker #3: An audio replay of the call will be available on our website. I'd also like to call your attention to the customer Safe Harbor disclosure in our press release regarding forward-looking information.

Speaker #3: Our remarks today may include forward-looking statements and projections. Please refer to our most recent SEC filings for important factors that could cause actual results to differ materially from these projections.

Speaker #3: We do not undertake to update our forward-looking statements unless required by law. To obtain copies of our latest SEC filings, please visit our website at pennantpark.com or call us at (212) 905-1000.

Speaker #3: At this time, I'd like to turn the call back to our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Art Penn.

Jose Briones: At this time, I'd like to turn the call back to our Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Art Penn.

Speaker #2: Thanks, Jose. I'll begin with an overview of our second quarter results, including a review of the portfolio. I'll then share our perspective on the current market environment and how we believe PNNT is positioned going forward.

Art Penn: Thanks, Jose. I'll begin with an overview of our Q2 results, including a review of the portfolio. I'll share our perspective on the current market environment and how we believe PNNT is positioned going forward. Jose will follow up with a detailed review of our financial results, after which we will open up the call for questions. For the Q ended 31 March, core NII was $0.14 per share. As of 31 March, our portfolio totaled $1.2 billion. During the Q, we continued to originate attractive investment opportunities and invested a total of $108 million, including 6 new platform investments with a median debt to EBITDA of 3x, interest coverage of 3.4x, and loan to value of only 28%.

Art Penn: Thanks, Jose. I'll begin with an overview of our Q2 results, including a review of the portfolio. I'll share our perspective on the current market environment and how we believe PNNT is positioned going forward. Jose will follow up with a detailed review of our financial results, after which we will open up the call for questions. For the quarter ended 31 March 2026, core NII was $0.14 per share. As of 31 March 2026, our portfolio totaled $1.2 billion. During the quarter, we continued to originate attractive investment opportunities and invested a total of $108 million, including 6 new platform investments with a median debt to EBITDA of 3x, interest coverage of 3.4x, and loan to value of only 28%.

Speaker #2: Jose will follow up with a detailed review of our financial results, after which we will open up the call for questions. For the quarter ended March 31, NII was $0.14 per share.

Speaker #2: As of March 31st, our portfolio totaled $1.2 billion. During the quarter, we continued to originate attractive investment opportunities and invested a total of $108 million, including six new platform investments, with a median debt-to-EBITDA of 3.0 times, interest coverage of 3.4 times, and loan-to-value of only 28%.

Speaker #2: Our portfolio remains conservatively positioned, with median leverage of 4.7 times, median interest coverage of 2.0 times, and median loan-to-value of 45%. We ended the quarter with four non-accrual investments, representing 2.7% of the portfolio at cost and 1.3% at market value.

Art Penn: Our portfolio remains conservatively positioned with median leverage of 4.7x, median interest coverage of 2x, and median loan to value of 45%. We ended the quarter with 4 non-accrual investments, representing 2.7% of the portfolio at cost and 1.3% at market value. Our PSLF joint venture portfolio continues to be a significant contributor to our core NII. At 31 March, the JV portfolio totaled $1.3 billion, over the last 12 months, PNNT's average NII yield on invested capital in the JV was 15.8%. The JV has the capacity to increase its portfolio to $1.5 billion, we expect that with this additional growth, the JV investment will enhance PNNT's earnings momentum into the future.

Art Penn: Our portfolio remains conservatively positioned with median leverage of 4.7x, median interest coverage of 2x, and median loan to value of 45%. We ended the quarter with four non-accrual investments, representing 2.7% of the portfolio at cost and 1.3% at market value. Our PSLF joint venture portfolio continues to be a significant contributor to our core NII. At 31 March 2026, the JV portfolio totaled $1.3 billion, over the last 12 months, PNNT's average NII yield on invested capital in the JV was 15.8%. The JV has the capacity to increase its portfolio to $1.5 billion, we expect that with this additional growth, the JV investment will enhance PNNT's earnings momentum into the future.

Speaker #2: Our PSLF joint venture portfolio continues to be a significant contributor to our core NII. At March 31st, the JV portfolio totaled $1.3 billion.

Speaker #2: And over the last 12 months, PNNT's average NII yield on invested capital in the JV was 15.8%. The JV has the capacity to increase its portfolio to $1.5 billion, and we expect that with this additional growth, the JV investment will enhance PNNT's earnings momentum into the future.

Speaker #2: Turning to software exposure, which has been an area of recent market focus, our exposure remains limited at approximately 4.6% of the portfolio and is structured consistently with our core middle market strategy.

Art Penn: Turning to software exposure, which has been an area of recent market focus, our exposure remains limited at approximately 4.6% of the portfolio and is structured consistently with our core middle market strategy. These investments are primarily cash-pay, covenant-protected loans with moderate leverage and shorter durations. Importantly, they are concentrated in mission-critical enterprise software serving regulated industries such as defense, healthcare, and financial institutions. We believe this represents a meaningful point of differentiation relative to our peers. Turning to the market environment, we believe that the current environment favors lenders with strong private equity sponsor relationships and disciplined underwriting, areas where we have a clear competitive advantage. In the core middle market, the pricing on high-quality first lien term loans remains attractive, typically ranging from SOFR plus 500 to 550 basis points with leverage of approximately 4.5x EBITDA.

Speaker #2: These investments are primarily cash pay, covenant protected loans with moderate leverage and shorter durations. Importantly, they are concentrated in mission-critical enterprise software serving regulated industry such as defense, healthcare, and financial institutions.

Speaker #2: We believe this represents a meaningful point of differentiation relative to our peers. Turning to the market environment, we believe that the current environment favors lenders with strong private equity sponsor relationships and disciplined underwriting—areas where we have a clear competitive advantage.

Speaker #2: In the core middle market, the pricing on high-quality first lien term loans remains attractive, typically ranging from SOFR plus 500 to 550 basis points, with leverage of approximately 4.5 times EBITDA.

Art Penn: Importantly, we continue to get meaningful covenant protections in contrast to the covenant-light structures prevalent in the upper middle market. M&A activity has increased over the past 6 to 9 months, although overall conditions remain uneven. Private equity sponsors remain active, and we are seeing a growing pipeline of attractive opportunities across both new originations and add-on investments. However, activity levels remain below the unusually strong levels observed in 2024 as the market transitions toward a more normalized backdrop. We expect increased transaction activity to drive repayments across the portfolio, including opportunities to monetize equity co-investments, and we'll redeploy that capital into income-generating investments. Notably, we expect a meaningful realization from our equity co-investment in Aechelon this quarter. Aechelon is a leading defense technology company sponsored by Sagewind Capital, our long-term sponsor relationship.

Speaker #2: Importantly, we continue to get meaningful covenant protections, in contrast to the covenant-like structures prevalent in the upper middle market. M&A activity has increased over the past six to nine months, although overall conditions remain uneven.

Speaker #2: Private equity sponsors remain active, and we are seeing a growing pipeline of attractive opportunities across both new originations and add-on investments. However, activity levels remain below the unusually strong levels observed in 2024, as the market transitions toward a more normalized backdrop.

Speaker #2: We expect increased transaction opportunity activity to drive repayments across the portfolio, including opportunities to monetize equity co-investments, and will redeploy that capital into income-generating investments.

Speaker #2: Notably, we expect a meaningful realization from our equity co-investment in Echelon this quarter. Echelon is a leading defense technology company sponsored by SageWind Capital our long-term sponsor relationship.

Speaker #2: Echelon announced that it has agreed to be acquired by Shield AI another cutting-edge defense technology company. Upon closing, we expect our 1.1 million dollar equity co-investment to generate approximately 16 million in total proceeds.

Art Penn: Aechelon announced that it has agreed to be acquired by Shield AI, another cutting-edge defense technology company. Upon closing, we expect our $1.1 million equity co-investment to generate approximately $16 million in total proceeds. Proceeds will consist of $14 million of cash and $2 million of value in Shield AI stock. This represents nearly 15x multiple on invested capital and demonstrates the value of our equity co-investment program. Given the current geopolitical environment and the Aechelon news, it's important to highlight that approximately 12% of our portfolio is exposed to government services and defense. Now I'd like to speak about why we believe that our focus on the core middle market provides us with attractive investment opportunities where we provide important strategic capital to our borrowers.

Speaker #2: Proceeds will consist of $14 million in cash and $2 million of value in Shield AI stock. This represents nearly a 15-times multiple on invested capital and demonstrates the value of our equity co-investment program.

Speaker #2: Given the current geopolitical environment and the Echelon news, it's important to highlight that approximately 12% of our portfolio is exposed to government services and defense.

Speaker #2: Now I'd like to speak about why we believe that our focus on the core middle market provides us with attractive investment opportunities where we provide important strategic capital to our borrowers.

Speaker #2: The core middle market companies with 10 to 15 million of EBITDA is below the threshold and does not compete with the broadly syndicated loan or high-yield markets unlike our peers in the upper middle market.

Art Penn: The core middle market, companies with $10 to 50 million of EBITDA, is below the threshold and does not compete with the broadly syndicated loan or high yield markets, unlike our peers in the upper middle market. In the core middle market, because we are an important strategic lending partner, the process and package of terms we receive is attractive. We have many weeks to do our diligence with care. We thoughtfully structure transactions with sensible credit statistics, meaningful covenants, substantial equity cushions to protect our capital, attractive spreads, and equity co-investment. Additionally, from a monitoring perspective, we receive monthly financial statements to help us stay on top of the companies. Our rigorous underwriting standards remain central to our investment philosophy. Nearly all of our originated first lien loans include meaningful covenant protections, a key differentiator versus the upper middle market, where covenant-light structures are more common.

Speaker #2: In the core middle market, because we are an important strategic lending partner, the process and package of terms we receive is attractive. We have many weeks to do our diligence with care we thoughtfully structure transactions with sensible credit statistics meaningful covenants substantial equity cushions to protect our capital attractive spreads and equity co-investment.

Speaker #2: Additionally, from a monitoring perspective, we receive monthly financial statements to help us stay on top of the companies. Our rigorous underwriting standards remain central to our investment philosophy.

Speaker #2: Nearly all of our originated first lien loans include meaningful covenant protections. A key differentiator versus the upper middle market where covenant-like structures are more common.

Speaker #2: Since our inception nearly 19 years ago, PNNT has invested $9.3 billion at an average yield of 11.2%, while maintaining a loss ratio on invested capital of roughly 20 basis points annually—a testament to our consistent and disciplined approach through multiple market cycles.

Art Penn: Since our inception nearly 19 years ago, PNNT has invested $9.3 billion at an average yield of 11.2% while maintaining a loss ratio on invested capital of roughly 20 basis points annually, a testament to our consistent and disciplined approach through multiple market cycles. As a provider of strategic capital who fuels the growth of our portfolio companies, in many cases, we participate in the upside of the company by making an equity co-investment. Our returns on these equity co-investments have been excellent over time. Overall, for our platform from inception through March 31, we've invested over $618 million in equity co-investments and have generated an IRR of 25% and a multiple on invested capital of 2 times. Looking ahead, our experienced team and broad origination platform position us well to generate attractive deal flow.

Speaker #2: As a provider of strategic capital who fuels the growth of our portfolio companies in many cases, we participate in the upside of the company by making an equity co-investment.

Speaker #2: Our returns on these equity co-investments have been excellent over time. Overall, for our platform from inception through March 31st, we've invested over $618 million in equity co-investments and have generated an IRR of 25% and a multiple on invested capital of two times.

Speaker #2: Looking ahead, our experienced team and broad origination platform position us well to generate attractive deal flow. We remain steadfast in our commitment to capital preservation and maintaining a disciplined, patient investment approach.

Art Penn: We remain steadfast in our commitment to capital preservation and maintaining a disciplined, patient investment approach. We continue to focus on investing in high quality middle market companies with strong free cash flow generation. We capture that value through first lien senior secured loans. We pay out those contractual cash flows in the form of dividends to our shareholders. With that overview, I'll turn the call over to Jose for a more detailed review of our financial results.

Speaker #2: We continue to focus on investing in high-quality middle-market companies with strong free cash flow generation. We capture that value through first lien senior secured loans, and we pay out those contractual cash flows in the form of dividends to our shareholders.

Speaker #2: Without further overview, I'll turn the call over to Jose for a more detailed review of our financial results.

Speaker #3: Thank you, Art. For the quarter ended March 31st, both GAAP net investment income and core net investment income were $0.14 per share. Operating expenses for the quarter were as follows.

Jose Briones: Thank you, Art. For Q1 ended 31 March, both GAAP net investment income and core net investment income were $0.14 per share. Operating expenses for Q1 were as follows: interest and credit facility expenses were $8.1 million. Base management incentive fees were $5.6 million. General administrative expenses were $1.5 million, and provision for excise taxes were $0.5 million. For Q1 ended 31 March, net realized and unrealized change on investments and debt, including provision for taxes, was a loss of $11.7 million. As of 31 March, our NAV was $6.73 per share, which is down 3.9% from $7.00 per share in the prior quarter.

Speaker #3: Interest and credit facility expenses were $8.1 million. Base management incentive fees were $5.6 million. General administrative expenses were $1.5 million. And provision for excise taxes was $0.5 million.

Speaker #3: For the quarter ended March 31st, net realized and unrealized change on investments and debt, including provision for taxes, was a loss of $11.7 million.

Speaker #3: As of March 31, our NAV was $6.73 per share, which is down 3.9% from $7.00 per share in the prior quarter. At March 31, our debt-to-equity ratio was 1.35 times, and our capital structure was diversified across multiple funding sources, including both secured and unsecured debt.

Jose Briones: At 31 March, our debt-to-equity ratio was 1.35 times. Our capital structure was diversified across multiple funding sources, including both secured and unsecured debt. In January, we raised $75 million of new unsecured debt, which was used to repay our unsecured debt that matured on 1 May. As of 31 March, our key portfolio statistics were as follows: Our portfolio remains highly diversified with 160 companies across 38 different industries. The weighted average yield on our debt investment was 10.9%. The portfolio is comprised of 48% first lien senior secured debt, 2% second lien secured debt, 14% supported notes to PSLF, 7% of other subordinated debt, 5% equity in PSLF, and 24% in other preferred and common equity co-investments. 88% of our debt portfolio is floating rate.

Speaker #3: In January, we raised $75 million of new unsecured debt, which was used to repay our unsecured debt that matured on May 1st. As of March 31st, our key portfolio statistics were as follows.

Speaker #3: Our portfolio remains highly diversified, with 162 companies across 38 different industries. The weighted average yield on our debt investment was 10.9%. The portfolio is comprised of 48% first lien senior secured debt, 2% second lien secured debt, 14% subordinated notes to PSLF, 7% other subordinated debt, 5% equity in PSLF, and 24% in other preferred and common equity co-investments.

Speaker #3: Eighty-eight percent of our debt portfolio is floating rate. Debt-to-EBITDA on the portfolio is 4.7 times, and interest coverage is 2.0 times. With that, I'll turn the call back to Art for closing remarks.

Jose Briones: Debt to EBITDA on the portfolio is 4.7x, and interest coverage is 2.0x. With that, I'll turn the call back to Art for closing remarks.

Speaker #2: Thanks, Jose. In conclusion, we remain committed to delivering consistent performance, preserving capital, and creating long-term value for all stakeholders. Thank you to our team for their dedication, and to our shareholders for their continued partnership and confidence in PennantPark.

Art Penn: Thanks, Jose. In conclusion, we remain committed to delivering consistent performance, preserving capital, and creating long-term value for all stakeholders. Thank you to our team for their dedication and our shareholders for their continued partnership and confidence in PennantPark. That concludes our remarks. At this time, I'd like to open up the call to questions.

Speaker #2: That concludes our remarks at this time. I'd like to open up the call to questions.

Speaker #1: Thank you. If you'd like to ask a question, please signal by pressing star one on your telephone keypad. If you're using a speakerphone, please make sure your mute function is turned off to allow your signal to reach our equipment.

Operator: We'll take our first question from Robert Dodd with Raymond James.

Speaker #1: Again, please press star one to ask a question. We'll take our first question from Robert Dodd with Raymond James.

Operator: We'll take our first question from Robert Dodd with Raymond James.

Robert Dodd: Hi, guys. A question about the market outlook, if I could, in kind of 3 segments. Overall, you know, you gave some color. Obviously, you know, conditions are still below what they were last year, et cetera. I mean, is there any, you know, meaningful scenario where that really meaningfully accelerates as we go through the year, given the level of uncertainty? Within 2 subsectors there, like, what are your thoughts on software right now? 'Cause spreads are widening, but it's not an area you've typically done a lot of. On the other hand, an area where you have done a lot is government, and contracting, et cetera, which you've just got a really nice gain lining up.

Speaker #4: Hi, guys. A question about the market outlook, if I could, and kind of, so, three segments. Overall, you gave some color—obviously conditions are still below what they were last year, etc.

Speaker #4: I mean, is there any meaningful scenario where that really meaningfully accelerates as we go through the year, given the level of uncertainty? And then, within two subsectors there, what are your thoughts on software right now?

Speaker #4: Because spreads are widening, but it's not an area you've typically done a lot of. On the other hand, an area where you have done a lot is government and contracting, etc.

Speaker #4: which you've just got to really nice gain lining up. Do you expect the competitive dynamics to change in that segment of the market, given how stable and budget talk for defense, etc.

Robert Dodd: Do you expect the competitive dynamics to change in that segment of the market, given how stable and budget talk for, you know, for defense, et cetera, is, you know, looking going forward? I mean, that's a lot of a question there, so.

Speaker #4: Is looking going forward? I mean, that's a lot of a question there, sorry.

Speaker #2: Yeah, thanks, Robert. I'll try to cover the market outlook and software, and I'll kick it over to Jose to talk about government services. Look, on M&A flows, we're certainly hopeful.

Art Penn: Thanks. Thanks, Robert. I'll try to cover the market outlook and software, I'll kick it over to Jose to talk about government services. Look, on M&A flows, we're certainly hopeful. We're seeing some green shoots or more than green shoots. It's just not as robust as it was. Certainly, you know, it takes a real, kind of a more stable market to, we think, to see more volume. We hope there is. Last year, we had Liberation Day kind of spike the punch bowl. This year, you know, whether it's the war or, you know, some of the other issues, we're certainly hopeful that we'll see a more normalized environment. We're hearing that it will be, we've heard that before, the proof will be in the pudding.

Speaker #2: We're seeing some green shoots, or more than green shoots. It's just not as robust as it was. Certainly, it takes a real, kind of a more stable market, we think, to see more volume.

Speaker #2: We hope there is. Last year, we had Liberation Day—kind of spiked the punch bowl. This year, whether it's the war or some of the other issues, we're certainly hopeful that we'll see a more normalized environment.

Speaker #2: We're hearing that it will be, but we've heard that before. So, the proof will be in the pudding. Echelon and some other deals we're seeing are good indications that there is still deal flow.

Art Penn: You know, Echelon and some other deals we're seeing, you know, are good indications that there is still deal flow. With regard to software, you know, we never really did much in software, primarily because the leverage multiples were higher than we were comfortable with. You know, the software that we do have, which is relatively small, it's kind of 4 or 5x leverage. It's certainly not levered 6, 7, 8x or levered against ARR. Even though, you know, we're just still not seeing, you know, a market. Certainly with AI coming on, there's just probably too much secular risk on the system. We're open-minded.

Speaker #2: With regard to software, we never really did much in software primarily because the leverage multiples were higher than we were comfortable with. So the software that we do have, which is relatively small, it's kind of four or five times leverage.

Speaker #2: It's certainly not levered six, seven, eight times, or levered against ARR. So, even though—so we're just still not seeing a market, and certainly with AI coming on, there's just probably too much secular risk on the system.

Speaker #2: We're open-minded. We always want to learn, and maybe there will be opportunities in this reassessment of the technology stack. So we're open to it, but as always, we want to make sure leverage is reasonable, that we can get comfortable that the companies have a strong moat, and that the companies have a real reason to exist long-term.

Art Penn: We always wanna learn, and maybe there will be opportunities in this reassessment of the technology stack. We're open to it, but as always, we wanna make sure leverage is reasonable, that we can get comfortable that the companies have a strong moat, and that the companies have a real reason to exist long term. With that, Jose, you wanna comment on government services defense?

Speaker #2: So, with that, Jose, do you want to comment on government services, defense?

Speaker #3: Sure. Hey, Robert, great to hear from you. Yeah, look, government services is a sector that we've been involved in for quite some time. It's a very nuanced space that we like.

Jose Briones: Sure, sure. Hey, Robert, great to hear from you.

Art Penn: Hey.

Robert Dodd: Hey.

Jose Briones: Yeah, look, government services is a sector that we've been involved for quite some time. It's a very nuanced space that we like, where we have, you know, very, you know, strong relationships with private equity sponsors that know that space really well. We think that's an area of growth and an area of opportunity for us. You know, Shield AI's the acquisition of Aechelon by Shield AI is a great example of that. You know, to the market in general, the first quarter is seasonally slow for our business, and then it usually picks up.

Speaker #3: We have very long relationships with private equity sponsors that know that space really well. We think that's an area of growth and an area of opportunity for us.

Speaker #3: Shield AI—the acquisition of Echelon by Shield AI is a great example of that. To the market in general, the first quarter is seasonally slow for our business, and then it usually picks up.

Jose Briones: With regards to the government services and government contracting, clearly, you know, given the conflict in the Middle East, you know, there's a lot of emphasis on that, and we're still seeing, you know, interesting opportunities in that part of the market. Another area that we do spend a lot of time with is healthcare and healthcare services, as you know. That's an area that we do like and we do see interesting opportunities. You know, pricing, you know, for the market generally has been in that SOFR 500 to 550. We haven't seen, you know, much change of that in the past couple quarters. Our expectation, to Art's point earlier, is to continue to focus on the areas where, you know, we like and the areas where we have expertise in.

Speaker #3: With regards to the government services and government contracting, clearly, given the conflict in the Middle East, there's a lot of emphasis on that. And we're still seeing interesting opportunities in that part of the market.

Speaker #3: Another area that we do spend a lot of time with is healthcare and healthcare services, as you know. And that's an area that we do like, and we do see interesting opportunities.

Speaker #3: Pricing for the market generally has been in that sofa of $500 to $550. We haven't seen much change in that in the past couple of quarters.

Speaker #3: So, our expectation, to Art's point earlier, is to continue to focus on the areas we like and the areas where we have expertise.

Robert Dodd: Got it. Thank you. One more if I can. I mean, it seems like every quarter we're asking like, Oh, what's your exposure to or the risk from this? It was software a year ago. To your point, it was tariffs, a lot of things. Now I gotta ask about oil and commodity prices. I mean, the uncertainty in the oil markets and the supply there, I don't think you have a ton of exposure anymore. What's kind of the portfolio exposure if oil were to go meaningfully higher for a sustained period or supply issues for that matter, right?

Speaker #4: Got it. Thank you. One more if I can. I mean, it seems like every quarter we're asking, like, 'Oh, what's your exposure to or the risk from this?' It was software.

Speaker #4: A year ago, to your point, it was tariffs—a lot of other things. Now, I’ve got to ask about oil and commodity prices. I mean, the uncertainty in the oil markets and the supply there—I don’t think you have a ton of exposure.

Speaker #4: Anymore. But what’s kind of the portfolio exposure if oil were to go meaningfully higher for a sustained period, or supply issues, for that matter, right?

Speaker #2: Yeah, so it's a good question. As you know, in our history, we did oil and gas, and that was not—that's why we don't do it today.

Art Penn: Yeah. It's a good question. As you know, in our history, we did oil and gas. That's why we don't do it today. Enough said there. I guess you could think of kind of, you know, other areas it could impact. Could it impact the American consumer if gas prices are higher? For sure. Consumer is a sector of ours. Now, in most cases, we're doing consumer services that we think are a little less discretionary, like HVAC, when your air conditioning breaks, you know, other services around the home. Consumer is a piece of the portfolio. It's not an overweight piece of the portfolio, but it is.

Speaker #2: Enough said there. I guess you could think of kind of other areas that could impact. Could it impact the American consumer if gas prices are higher?

Speaker #2: For sure. And consumer is a sector of ours. Now, in most cases, we're doing consumer services that we think are a little less discretionary, like HVAC when your air conditioning breaks.

Speaker #2: Other services around the home—consumer is a piece of the portfolio. It's not an overweight piece of the portfolio, but it is. So you can certainly think about all the—we don't do much in manufacturing, so kind of none of that plastics kind of manufacturing, paper, packaging.

Art Penn: You could certainly, you know, think about all the, you know, all the We don't do much in manufacturing, so kind of none of that plastics kind of manufacturing, paper packaging, we don't really have any exposure there. I'd say it's really the American consumer, which, by the way, the American consumer is a big chunk of the overall economy. If the American consumer-

Speaker #2: We don't really have any exposure there. So, I'd say it's really the American consumer, which, by the way, the American consumer is a big, big chunk of the overall economy.

Speaker #2: So, if the American consumer is weaker, that has a lot of other impacts that may happen. But I would say that's the closest thing we have to oil exposure.

Robert Dodd: Yeah

Art Penn: is weaker, that has a lot of, you know, other impacts that may happen. I would say that's the closest thing we have to oil exposure.

Speaker #4: Got it. Got it. Thank you.

Robert Dodd: Got it. Got it. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Art Penn: Thank you.

Speaker #1: We'll go next to Aaron Zikonovich with Truist Securities.

Operator: We'll go next to Aaron Sorkin with Truist Securities.

Speaker #4: Thanks. So, the Echelon transaction—that's going to close in the second quarter, I think. Is that what you said? And then, is the sale price consistent with where it was marked at $331?

Aaron Sorkin: Thanks. The Aechelon transaction, that's going to close in Q2, I think. Is that what you said?

Arren Cyganovich: Thanks. The Aechelon transaction, that's going to close in Q2, I think. Is that what you said?

Art Penn: Yeah

Art Penn: Yeah.

Aaron Sorkin: Is the sale price, you know, consistent with where it was marked at 3/31?

Arren Cyganovich: Is the sale price, you know, consistent with where it was marked at 3/31?

Speaker #2: Yes, we think it'll close in the next 60 days, and it's marked as fair value at the deal price.

Art Penn: Yes. We think it'll close in the next 60 days. It's marked, you know, as fair value at the deal price.

Speaker #4: Okay, yeah. I just wanted to clarify that. Any other equity positions that are in talks, or anything you can identify that might potentially move over the next quarter or two?

Aaron Sorkin: Okay. Yeah, just wanted to clarify that. Any other, you know, equity positions that, you know, are in talks or anything you can identify that, you know, might potentially move over the next quarter or 2?

Arren Cyganovich: Okay. Yeah, just wanted to clarify that. Any other, you know, equity positions that, you know, are in talks or anything you can identify that, you know, might potentially move over the next quarter or 2?

Speaker #2: Yeah, no. And these are less impactful. There’s a company called Guild Garage, which was marked at fair value at $331,000, which has since exited.

Art Penn: No, these are less impactful. There's a company called Guild Garage, which was marked at fair value at 31 March, which has since exited. There's an equity co-invest there, which is, you know, a few million dollars. We have others that are kind of in the wings. Nothing as impactful as Aechelon, but, you know, getting some singles and doubles here and there, you know, should be helpful.

Speaker #2: So there’s an equity co-invest there, which is a few million dollars. And we have others that are kind of in the wings. Nothing as impactful as Echelon, but getting some singles and doubles here and there.

Speaker #2: Should be helpful.

Speaker #4: Great. Thank you.

Aaron Sorkin: Great. Thank you.

Arren Cyganovich: Great. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Art Penn: Thank you.

Speaker #1: We'll take our next question from Rick Shane with JPMorgan.

Operator: We'll take our next question from Rick Shane with JPMorgan.

Speaker #5: Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. Guess I'm glad that we're not revisiting the whole oil and gas thing. It seems like the last time we were talking, that was a big issue.

Rick Shane: Hey, guys. Thanks for taking my question. Guess I'm glad that we're not revisiting the whole oil and gas thing. It seems like the last time we were talking, that was a big issue years ago. The question we've been asking everybody this quarter, I'm curious given your focus, is sort of where in the continuum we are in terms of pricing and, more importantly, deal structure. Art, I took your comments to mean that you just don't ever see the sort of variance that we might see in the BSL market. How should we think about this?

Speaker #5: Years ago, the question we've been asking everybody this quarter—and I'm curious, given your focus—is sort of where in the continuum we are in terms of pricing, and more importantly, deal structure.

Speaker #5: And I took your comments to mean that you just don't ever see the sort of variance that we might see in the BSL market.

Speaker #5: And should we, sort of, how should we think about this?

Speaker #4: Well, look, I mean, you have the upper market where many of our—many of the large peers play. Above $50 million of EBITDA, and that's been covered in light for a while, because those borrowers have options in the broadly syndicated loan market.

Art Penn: Well, we should Yeah, look, I mean, you have the upper market where many of the large peers play above 50 of EBITDA. That's been covenant-like for a while because those borrowers, you know, have options in the broadly syndicated loan market. That market also similarly as, you know, the companies there only report to those lenders every three months. They don't get co-invest even if they wanted it. They may or may not want it, they don't get co-invest. Just kind of the deal decision-making is much tighter, you know. Our prototypical deal is we're working on a company where a founder, a family or an entrepreneur is selling to the middle-market private equity sponsor, and the company does $10 or $20 million of EBITDA.

Speaker #4: So that market also, similarly, as the companies there, only report to those lenders every three months. And they don't get co-invest, even if they wanted it.

Speaker #4: They may or may not want it. They don't get co-invest, and just kind of the deal decision-making is much tighter. Our prototypical deal is we're working on a company where a founder, a family, or an entrepreneur is selling to the middle market private equity sponsor.

Speaker #4: And the company does $10 or $20 million of EBITDA. And the game plan is to take that company and grow it, and do add-on acquisitions, and get it to $30, $40, $50, $60 million so that it can then be sold or then financed in the upper market.

Art Penn: The game plan is to take that company, grow it, do add-on acquisitions and get it to 30, 40, 50, 60, so that it can then be sold or then financed, you know, in the upper market. As a result, in our world, our capital, by the way, is strategic capital. It's there usually with the late draw term loan to help fuel the growth. We become very much a strategic partner of that company. We become the strategic partner of that management team, strategic partner of the sponsor. Our loan is the fuel. Because we're the strategic partner, we have plenty of time to do our diligence. We really understand, and we need to understand what we're lending to.

Speaker #4: So, as a result, in our world—and our capital, by the way, is strategic capital—it's there, usually, with the lateral term loan to help fuel the growth.

Speaker #4: So we become very much a strategic partner of that company. We become the strategic partner of that management team, strategic partner of the sponsor.

Speaker #4: And our loan is the fuel. So, because we're the strategic partner, we have plenty of time to do our diligence. We really understand. And we need to understand what we're lending to.

Speaker #4: We, of course, get maintenance covenants—quarterly tests that need to be met, contractually. We get monthly financial statements. We have the option, and in many cases we take the option, to co-invest in the equity because, of course, if we're helping to create the equity value with our loan, why wouldn't we participate in that upside?

Art Penn: We of course get maintenance covenants, quarterly tests that need to be met contractually. We get monthly financial statements. We have the option, in many cases, we take the option to co-invest in the equity because of course, if we're helping to create the equity value with our loan, why wouldn't we help participate in that upside? You see the benefit of that. Aechelon's an excellent example. You can see the benefit of having something in this portfolio or these portfolios that's got some lift that can offset in the inevitable non-accruals you have. We all have non-accruals. There's no private credit manager that's perfect. You try to develop a diversified book, minimize non-accruals, you're gonna have non-accruals.

Speaker #4: And you see the benefit of that with Echelon's an excellent example. You can see the benefit of having something in this portfolio or these portfolios that's got some lift that can offset the inevitable non-accruals you have.

Speaker #4: We all have non-accruals. There's no private credit manager that's perfect. You try to develop a diversified book, minimize non-accruals, but you're going to have non-accruals.

Art Penn: So, having some equity co-invest in these portfolios we found helpful to help fill in for some of those gaps. We're operating in an entirely different world than the upper market. You know, it just doesn't make sense for the business model of those folks in the upper market to come down and spend their time on companies of this size, given the size of check. If you're managing $100 billion or $200 billion or whatever you're managing in private credit, it just doesn't make sense to be focused on this end of the world. Therefore, that's why, you know, there's only a handful of real competitors that we have in this kind of below $50 million of EBITDA. It's a long-winded answer, Rick.

Speaker #4: So having some equity co-invest in these portfolios, we found helpful to help fill in for some of those gaps. So we're operating in an entirely different world than the upper market.

Speaker #4: And it just doesn't make sense for the business model of those folks in the upper market to come down and spend their time on companies of this size, given the size of check.

Speaker #4: If you're managing $100 billion or $200 billion, or whatever you're managing in private credit, it just doesn't make sense to be focused on this end of the world.

Speaker #4: And therefore, that's why there's only a handful of real competitors that we have in this kind of below $50 million of EBITDA. It's a long-winded answer, Rick.

Speaker #4: I don't know if I answered your question, but please continue to ask if I didn't get to it.

Art Penn: I don't know if I answered your question, but please continue to ask if I didn't get to it.

Speaker #3: No, you did. And again, I think that helps on the asset side. Curious on the funding side if there's anything that we should be thinking about here. Banks have been very reliable partners in the space.

Rick Shane: No, you did. Again, I think that helps on the asset side. Curious on the funding side, if there's anything that we should be thinking about here. You know, banks have been very reliable partners in the space, but you always do wonder about sort of selectivity of credit. Curious if you're seeing any opportunity or any risk on the financing side.

Speaker #3: But you always do wonder about, sort of, selectivity of credit. And I'm curious if you're seeing any opportunity or any risk on the financing side.

Speaker #4: Yeah, no, it's a great question because, having started our business right before the global financial crisis, we learned very early that lender transparency—relationship with lenders—is so key.

Art Penn: Yeah, no, we, having started our business right before the global financial crisis, we learned very early that, you know, lender transparency, relationship with lenders, you know, is so key, and they become our partners. We are always reaching out to our lenders and offering to bring them in and transparently go name by name. Interesting, you know, a month or two or three ago when the headlines about private credit started to come out, we proactively reached out to every one of our lenders. We said, Come on in. We'd be happy to walk through, you know, loan by loan what's going on with our portfolio.

Speaker #4: And they become our partners. So we are always reaching out to our lenders and offering to bring them in and transparently go name by name. Interesting—a month or two or three ago, when the headlines about private credit started to come out.

Speaker #4: We proactively reached out to every one of our lenders, and we said, "Come on in. We'd be happy to walk through, loan by loan."

Speaker #4: What's going on with our portfolio? We feel really good about it and feel like we've underwritten a very solid book. And the vast majority of the lenders said to us, 'You know what?'

Art Penn: We feel, you know, really good about it and feel like we've underwritten a very solid book. The vast majority of the lenders said to us, you know what? You don't have much software exposure. You're way down on our list of who we're going to come visit. We've got plenty of other people to go visit. We're always doing that. We're always out with our lenders, developing relationships. As you know, in PNNT, we have different types of debt capital. We have good old credit facilities. We have bonds, and we have securitizations that we use. They're all useful tools, and we have a diversified strategy of using all three.

Speaker #4: You don't have much software exposure. You're way down on our list of who we're going to come visit. We've got plenty of other people to go visit. So we're always doing that.

Speaker #4: We're always out with our lenders, developing relationships. As you know, in PNNT, we have different types of debt capital. We have good old credit facilities.

Speaker #4: We have bonds, and we have securitizations that we use. They're all useful tools, and we have a diversified strategy of using all three.

Speaker #5: Got it. Well, if there’s any credit contraction on that side, you remain at the bottom of their list in terms of visits as well.

Rick Shane: Got it. Well, if there was any credit contraction on that side, you remain at the bottom of their list, in terms of visits as well.

Speaker #4: Yeah.

Art Penn: Yeah.

Speaker #5: Thanks, guys.

Rick Shane: Thanks, guys.

Speaker #4: Thanks, Rick.

Art Penn: Thanks, Rick.

Speaker #1: We'll go next here. Christopher Nolan with Leidenberg Thalman.

Operator: We'll go next to Christopher Nolan with Ladenburg Thalmann.

Speaker #6: Hey, Jose, do you know the reason for the drop in total interest income quarter over quarter?

Christopher Nolan: Hey. Jose, do you know the reason for the drop in total interest income quarter over quarter?

Jose Briones: Let me come back to you on that.

Speaker #5: Let me come back to you on that.

Jose Briones: Let me come back to you on that.

Christopher Nolan: Yeah.

Speaker #6: We don't really.

Speaker #5: Let me come back on that.

Jose Briones: Let me get back to you on that.

Speaker #6: No problem at all.

Christopher Nolan: No problem at all. Art.

Speaker #4: I'm sorry, Eric Leeds is here from our finance department. Eric, do you have anything you'd like to add on that?

Art Penn: Hey, I'm sorry. Eric Leeds is here from our finance. Eric, do you have anything you'd like to add on that?

Eric Leeds: Basically, the smaller average portfolio over the quarter, I believe, caused that.

Speaker #7: Basically, the smaller average portfolio over the quarter, I believe, caused that.

Eric Leeds: Basically, the smaller average portfolio over the quarter, I believe, caused that.

Speaker #6: Great.

Christopher Nolan: Great.

Speaker #4: I mean, we ended up generating $0.14, I think, and consensus was $0.15. But we were certainly happy to go into the detail with you.

Art Penn: I mean, we ended up generating $0.14. I think consensus was $0.15, but we were certainly happy to, you know, go into the detail with you, Chris, if you'd like.

Speaker #4: Chris, if you'd like.

Speaker #6: No, no. It's okay. And, in general, are you seeing a migration of portfolio companies from high-tech states to lower-tech states at all? Any thoughts?

Christopher Nolan: No, no, that's okay. In general, are you seeing a migration of portfolio companies from high tax states to lower tax states, at all in, you know, any thoughts?

Art Penn: Yeah. Yeah, no. We aren't. You know, we do have a very diversified portfolio geographically around the United States. Certainly, we tend to lend to companies that are growing companies wherever they may be, but we haven't yet seen, you know, movement of headquarters, you know, given what's going on.

Speaker #4: Yeah, yeah. No, we aren't. We do have a very diversified portfolio geographically around the United States. Certainly, we tend to lend to companies that are growing companies, wherever they may be.

Speaker #4: But we haven't yet seen—we haven't yet seen—movement of headquarters, given what's going on.

Speaker #6: Got it. Okay. Thanks.

Christopher Nolan: Got it. Okay, thanks.

Speaker #1: At this time, there are no further questions. I'll now turn the call back to Art for any additional or closing remarks.

Operator: At this time, there are no further questions. I'll now turn the call back to Art for any additional or closing remarks.

Speaker #4: Thank you, everybody. Really appreciate everyone's participation today. Wishing everyone a happy Mother's Day, and we look forward to speaking to you next in early August at our next earnings report.

Art Penn: Thank you, everybody. Really appreciate everyone's participation today. Wishing everyone a Happy Mother's Day. We look forward to speaking to you next in early August at our next earnings report. Thank you very much.

Speaker #4: Thank you very much.

Operator: This does conclude today's conference. We thank you for your participation.