Q3 2026 Aurubis AG Earnings Call

August 6, 2026

Speaker #2: Welcome to the analyst call. The conference will be recorded. At this time, all participants have been placed in listen-only mode. The floor will be open for questions following the presentation.

Operator 3: Welcome to the analyst call. The conference will be recorded. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen-only mode. The floor will be open for questions following the presentation. Let me now turn the floor over to Elke Brinkmann, Head of Investor Relations.

Operator: Welcome to the analyst call. The conference will be recorded. At this time, all participants have been placed on a listen-only mode. The floor will be open for questions following the presentation. Let me now turn the floor over to Elke Brinkmann, Head of Investor Relations.

Speaker #2: Let me now turn the floor over to Elke Brinkman, Head of Investor Relations.

Speaker #4: Good afternoon, and welcome to our Q3 2025/26 conference call. We will walk you through the results for the first nine months of our fiscal year.

Elke Brinkmann: Good afternoon, welcome to our Q3 2025/26 conference call. We will walk you through the results for the first nine months of our fiscal year. With us on the call are our CEO, Thorben Pfahls, and CFO, Steffen Hoffmann. After the presentation, we will be happy to take your questions. If you would like to ask a question during the Q&A session, please use the combination star nine pound key sequence. Before we begin, let me draw your attention to our disclaimer. We will make forward-looking statements today. These are based on current plans and expectations and are subject to risks and uncertainties. Actual results may differ materially. That being said, let me now turn the floor over to Thorben Pfahls.

Speaker #4: With us on the call are our CEO, Toral Park, and CFO, Steffen Hoffmann. After the presentation, we will be happy to take your questions.

Speaker #4: If you would like to ask a question during the Q&A session, please use the combination STAR-9 phone key sequence.

Speaker #5: Before.

Speaker #4: Let me draw your attention to our disclaimer. We will make forward-looking statements today. These are based on current plans and expectations, and are subject to risks and uncertainties.

Speaker #4: Actual results may differ, naturally. That being said, let me now turn the floor over to Toral Park.

Speaker #5: Thank you, Elke, and good morning from Hamburg. Before we dive into the details later, a good afternoon from sunny—here's a high-level overview of the performance in the first nine months.

Toralf Haag: Thank you, Elke, and good morning and good afternoon from sunny Hamburg. Before we dive into the details later in the presentation, let me provide you with a high-level overview of the performance in the first nine months. Operating EBT increased significantly by 31% to EUR 374 million compared to the previous year, in line with expectations. Operating EBITDA came in at EUR 570 million. The improved performance in the first nine months was supported by markedly higher earnings in Q3 of fiscal year 2025/2026, where operating EBT came in at EUR 149 million, a 23% increase versus Q2 of the current fiscal year. Net cash flow was EUR -28 million, considerably below last year's EUR 357 million. This is mainly due to the temporary buildup of the intermediate product inventories to supply the phased commissioning of the expanded tankhouse in Pirdop.

Speaker #5: Operating EBT increased significantly by 31% to presentation, let me provide you with a 374 million euros, compared to the previous year. In line with expectations, operating EBITDA came in at 570 million euros.

Speaker #5: The improved performance in the first nine months was supported by markedly higher earnings in Q3 of fiscal year 2025/26, where operating EBT came in at €149 million.

Speaker #5: A 23% increase versus Q2 of the current fiscal year. Net cash flow was minus 28 million euros, considerably below last year's 357 million. This is mainly due to the temporary buildup of the intermediate product inventories, to supply the phased commissioning of the expanded tankhouse in Pilldock.

Speaker #5: ESTAs highlighted the increase in inventories as a temporary effect, which by the fiscal year end we expect the net cash flow to be above the prior year level, of 677 million euros.

Toralf Haag: As just highlighted, the increase in inventories is a temporary effect, which by the fiscal year-end, we expect the net cash flow to be above the prior year level of EUR 677 million. As alluded to in our Q2 analyst call, free cash flow before dividend came in as expected, significantly EUR -365 million compared to EUR -211 million last year. Based on our latest planning, we continue to expect the free cash flow before dividend to break even at a minimum for the full fiscal year 2025/2026. Operating ROCE increased to 9.4%, up from 9.1%, reflecting improved earnings performance and partly offset by the temporary inventory buildup. In light of the improved results after nine months and our current planning, from today's perspective, we anticipate operating EBT to come in around the upper end of the forecast range for the 2025/2026 fiscal year.

Speaker #5: As alluded to in our Q2 analyst call, free cash flow before dividend came in as expected significantly negative at minus 365 million euros, compared to minus 211 million euros last year.

Speaker #5: Based on our latest planning, we continue to expect a free cash flow before dividend to break even at a minimum for the full fiscal year 25-26.

Speaker #5: Operating return on capital employed increased to 9.4%, up from 9.1%, reflecting improved earnings performance and partly offset by the temporary inventory buildup. In light of the improved results after nine months, and our current planning, from today's perspective, we anticipate operating EBT to come in around the upper end of the forecast range for the 25-26 fiscal year.

Speaker #5: Let us now have a look at how the market environment developed over the last quarter. Against the backdrop of an exceptionally tight market environment, our foreign asset was one of the most supportive earnings drivers during the third quarter.

Toralf Haag: Let us now have a look at how the market environment developed over the last quarter. Against the backdrop of an exceptionally tight market environment, sulfuric acid was one of the most supportive earnings drivers during the Q3, as the ongoing Middle East shipping restrictions and the Chinese export ban for sulfuric acid are lifting prices to new highs. European spot copper premiums remained at high levels, supported by healthy demand for refined copper. In recycling markets, spot refining charges for scrap number 2 stayed above prior year levels, in spite a moderate easing during the quarter. By contrast, concentrate markets remain very challenging. Spot TC/RCs for copper concentrates declined further and remained under pressure as smelter demand continues to outpace mine supply. With regard to the price environment of our key metals, copper continued its upward trend during the Q3.

Speaker #5: As the ongoing Middle East shipping restrictions and the Chinese export ban for suffering asset are lifting prices to new highs, European spot copper premiums remained at high levels, supported by healthy demand for refined copper.

Speaker #5: In recycling markets, spot refining charges for scrap number two stayed above prior year levels. Despite a moderate easing during the quarter, by contrast, concentrate markets remained very challenging.

Speaker #5: Spot TCRCs for copper concentrates declined further, and remained under pressure, as malta demand continues to supply. With regard to the price outpace mine environment of our key metals, copper continued its upward trend during the third quarter.

Speaker #5: This was supported by robust demand expectations and a constructive market backdrop. Gold and silver remained at historically elevated levels, as well. Although both metals saw some consolidation compared to the exceptionally strong levels reached earlier this year.

Toralf Haag: This was supported by robust demand expectations and a constructive market backdrop. Gold and silver remained at historically elevated levels as well. Although both metals saw some consolidation compared to the exceptionally strong levels reached earlier this year. The Euro/US dollar exchange rate fluctuated during the quarter, remained within a relatively narrow trading range. As always, bear in mind that there is no direct one-to-one relationship between spot price movements and our reported earnings. As part of our exposure are hedged, some effects materialize with a time lag. Now over to Steffen. He will walk you through our performance in the Q3 and the financial results for the first nine months of the fiscal year.

Speaker #5: The euro–US dollar exchange rate fluctuated during the quarter but remained within a relatively narrow trading range. As always, bear in mind that there is no direct one-to-one relationship between spot price movements and our reported earnings.

Speaker #5: As part of our exposure, our head as part of our exposure are hedged, and some effects materialize with the time lag. And now over to Steffen.

Speaker #5: He will walk you through our performance in the third quarter, and the financial results for the first nine months, for the fiscal year.

Speaker #6: Thank you so much. Good afternoon, and a warm welcome from my side as well. Let me start with the key figures for the third quarter.

Steffen Hoffmann: Thank you, Thomas. Good afternoon and a warm welcome from my side as well. Let me start with the key figures for the third quarter. Overall, Q3 marked another step up in profitability. Operating EBT increased to EUR 149 million, up 23% compared to the previous quarter. Apart from achieving a higher metal result, we leveraged the opportunities of the tight sulfuric acid market earlier than we had hinted at in the last conference call. Along with improved recycling RCs, these positive earnings contributions compensated for the drop in concentrate TC RCs. Net cash flow amounted to EUR -189 million compared to EUR +169 million in Q2. Cash generation remains a key priority for us. However, in the last quarter, we built inventories to ensure a smooth ramp-up of our strategic projects. In addition, we had some seasonally higher levels of finished goods.

Speaker #6: Overall, Q3 marked another step up in profitability, operating EBT increased to 149 million euro, up 23% compared to the previous quarter. Apart from achieving a higher metal result, we leveraged the opportunities of the tight sulfuric acid market earlier than we had hinted at in the last conference call.

Speaker #6: Along with improved recycling RCs, these positive earnings contributions compensated for the drop in concentrate TCRCs. Net cash flow amounted to minus 189 million euro, compared to plus 169 million euro, in Q2.

Speaker #6: Cash generation remains a key priority for us. However, in the last quarter, we built inventories to ensure a smooth ramp-up of our strategic projects.

Speaker #6: In addition, we had some seasonally higher levels of finished goods. Thus, the weaker cash flow should be seen as a temporary effect that should be reversed by the end of the fiscal year 25-26.

Steffen Hoffmann: Thus, the weaker cash flow should be seen as a temporary effect that should be reversed by the end of the fiscal year 2025/2026. Looking at page seven. Let's switch to the nine-month overview. Group revenues increased by 29% to EUR 17.8 billion, mainly reflecting higher metal prices and solid operating performance across the business. Operating EBT increased by 31% to EUR 374 million. The earnings drivers in the first nine months were largely consistent with those seen in Q3. Higher contributions from the metal result, recycling activities, sulfuric acid, and copper products more than compensated for the continued pressure on concentrate TC RCs. As mentioned for Q3, net cash flow was impacted by temporary inventory effects in the third quarter and therefore amounted to EUR -28 million compared to EUR +357 million in the prior year.

Speaker #6: seven, let's switch to the nine-month overview. Group revenues increased by 29% to 17.8 billion euro, mainly reflecting higher metal prices and solid operating performance across the business.

Speaker #6: Operating EBT increased by 31% to 374 million euro. The earnings drivers in the first nine months were largely consistent with those seen in Q3.

Speaker #6: Higher contributions from the metal result, recycling activities, sulfuric acid, and copper products more than compensated for the continued pressure on concentrate TCRCs. As mentioned for Q3, net cash flow was impacted by temporary inventory effects in the third quarter and Looking at page therefore amounted to minus 28 million euro, compared to plus 357 million euro in the prior year.

Speaker #6: Operating ROCE improved to 9.4% from 9.1% and increased for the third consecutive quarter, supported by a strong earnings momentum, despite an increase in capital employment.

Steffen Hoffmann: Operating ROCE improved to 9.4% from 9.1% and increased for the third consecutive quarter, supported by the strong earnings momentum despite an increase in capital employed. Coming to our sources of income, you will see that gross margin increased to around EUR 1.7 billion, up by roughly EUR 140 million versus the prior year. The increase was driven not only by higher copper and precious metal prices, but also by a strong operational performance in the first nine months of fiscal year 2025/2026, as higher production volumes across the group provided an additional uplift. Please bear in mind that the same period last year was impacted by the planned maintenance shutdown in Pirdop. The metal result increased its contribution from 37% to 43% of gross margin, benefiting from higher metal prices and the stronger production performance. In contrast, the share of TC RCs and Recycling RCs declined from 27% to 21%.

Speaker #6: Coming to our sources of income, you will see that gross margin increased to around 1.7 billion euro, up by roughly 140 million versus the prior year.

Speaker #6: The increase was driven not only by higher copper and precious metal prices, but also by a strong operational performance in the first nine months of fiscal year 25-26, as higher production volumes across the group provided an additional uplift.

Speaker #6: Please bear in mind that the same period last year was impacted by the planned maintenance shutdown in Pierdop. The metal result increased its contribution from 37% to 43% of gross margin, benefiting from higher metal prices and the stronger production performance.

Speaker #6: In contrast, the share of TCRCs in recycling RCs declined from 27% to 21%. As expected, the tight concentrate market weighed on earnings, although recycling charges developed more favorably and partly cushioned the impact.

Steffen Hoffmann: As expected, the tight concentrate market weighed on earnings, although recycling charges developed more favorably and partly cushioned the impact. Products and premiums remained broadly stable at 36% of gross margin. Healthy demand for copper products and a stronger sulfuric acid contribution helped offset the headwinds from raw mat markets. Overall, this development illustrates the strength of our multi-metal business model. Pressure in one earnings component can be compensated by opportunities in others. On page nine, let's now dive into the Multimetal Recycling segment. The segment generated a gross margin of EUR 589 million, an increase of EUR 87 million compared to the prior year. Within the gross margin mix, the metal result increased its contribution from 46% to 51%, benefiting primarily from higher prices for gold, silver, and copper.

Speaker #6: Products and premiums remained broadly stable at 36% of gross margin. Healthy demand for copper products and a stronger sulfuric acid contribution helped offset the headwinds from raw met markets.

Speaker #6: Overall, this development illustrates the strength of our multi-metal business model. Pressure in one earnings component can be compensated by opportunities in others. On page nine, let's now dive into the multi-metal recycling segment.

Speaker #6: The segment generated a gross margin of 589 million euro and increase of 87 million euro compared to the prior year. Within the gross margin mix, the metal result increased its contribution from 46% to 51%, benefiting primarily from higher prices for gold, silver, and copper.

Speaker #6: The share of refining charges decreased from 44 to 39%, which is mainly due to the shift in distribution of the gross margin drivers. On a higher gross margin basis, refining charges still contributed, a higher absolute earnings amount than in the prior year.

Steffen Hoffmann: The share of refining charges decreased from 44% to 39%, which is mainly due to the shift in distribution of the gross margin drivers. On a higher gross margin basis, refining charges still contributed a higher absolute earnings amount than in the prior year. Products and premiums remained stable at 10% and continued to provide an additional earnings contribution. This stronger earnings profile translated into operating EBITDA of EUR 162 million, up from EUR 97 million, while operating EBT increased to EUR 87 million from EUR 36 million. Importantly, operating ROC improved to 3.8% from a low 0.6%, reflecting the improved earnings performance despite continued growth investments and an elevated capital input. Turning now to the performance of the CSP segment. The segment generated a gross margin of more than EUR 1.1 billion, an increase of around EUR 50 million compared to the prior year.

Speaker #6: Products and premiums remained stable at 10% and continued to provide an additional earnings contribution, a stronger earnings profile translated into operating EBITDA of 162 million euro, up from 97 million euro, while operating EBT increased to 87 million euro from 36 million euro.

Speaker #6: Importantly, operating ROCE improved to 3.8% from a low 0.6%, reflecting the improved earnings performance despite continued growth investments and an elevated capital input. Turning now to the performance of the CSP segment.

Speaker #6: The segment generated a gross margin of more than 1.1 billion euro, an increase of around 50 million euro compared to the prior year. Products and premiums remained the largest earnings contributor, with a share of 50%.

Steffen Hoffmann: Products and premiums remained the largest earnings contributor with a share of 50%. This is broadly in line with last year, highlighting the continued strength of our copper products and sulfuric acid businesses. The metal result increased its contribution from 32% to 38%, benefiting from higher copper and precious metal prices. As expected, contribution from treatment and refining charges declined from 19% to 12%. Despite higher production volumes, we were faced with softer TC/RCs levels that gradually rolled over into our contracts, although not to the same extent as the development we showed earlier for the spot market. Concentrate throughput increased to 1.9 million tons while sulfuric acid sales rose to 1.8 million tons. The increase in sulfuric acid earnings reflects both higher volumes and higher prices.

Speaker #6: This is broadly in line with last year highlighting the continued strength of our copper products and sulfuric acid businesses. The metal result increased its contribution from 32 to 38%, benefiting from higher copper and precious metal prices.

Speaker #6: As expected, contribution from treatment and refining charges declined from 19 to 12%. Despite higher production volumes, we were faced with softer TCRC levels that gradually rule over into our contracts, although not to the same extent as the development we showed earlier for the spot market.

Speaker #6: Concentrate throughput increased to 1.9 million tons, while sulfuric acid sales rose to 1.8 million tons, the increase in sulfuric acid earnings reflects both higher volumes and higher prices.

Speaker #6: The volume increase benefited from the absence of the Pierdop maintenance shutdown, which was carried out in the prior year, while higher sulfuric acid prices started to contribute more meaningfully to earnings in Q3.

Steffen Hoffmann: The volume increase benefited from the absence of the Pirdop maintenance shutdown, which was carried out in the prior year, while higher sulfuric acid prices started to contribute more meaningfully to earnings in Q3. As a result, for CSP, operating EBITDA increased to EUR 461 million from EUR 436 million, while operating EBT rose to EUR 355 million from EUR 342 million. Operating ROC came in at 15.5% below last year's 17.6%, which was mainly driven by an increase in capital employed of around EUR 200 million. Coming to page 11, let's now take a look at cost development in the group. Total costs edged up by about EUR 60 million, 4% increase to EUR 1.48 billion, largely on account of footprint expansion. The main driver was higher scheduled depreciation and amortization of EUR 37 million, reflecting our investment activities and the ramp-up of strategic projects.

Speaker #6: As a result, for CSP, operating EBITDA increased to 461 million from 436 million while operating EBT rose to 355 from 342 million. Operating ROCE came in at 15.5%, below last year's 17.6%, which was mainly driven by an increase in capital employed of around 200 million euro.

Speaker #6: Coming to page 11, let's now take a look at cost development in the group. Total costs edged up by about 60 million for percent increase to 1.48 billion euro, largely on account of footprint expansion.

Speaker #6: The main driver was higher scheduled depreciation and amortization of 37 million euro, reflecting our investment activities and the ramp-up of strategic projects. The uptick in personnel cost is also in part attributable to our increased footprint and the associated higher average headcount, as well as to general wage inflation.

Steffen Hoffmann: The uptick in personnel cost is also in part attributable to our increased footprint and the associated higher average headcount, as well as to general wage inflation. Other operating expenses decreased slightly to 20% of total costs, with the logistics and administrative costs being the largest components. With a share of 9%, energy costs were broadly on par with the prior year level, thanks to an effective energy management and hedging. On to the cash flow bridge on page 12. Starting with operating EBITDA, which was at EUR 570 million, offset by a EUR 525 million increase in net working capital, which reflects the impact of higher metal prices, seasonal effects, and the ramp-up of our strategic projects. Aurubis has a track record of generating reliable cash flows. However, as we regularly highlight, cash flow at any reporting date can be influenced by temporary balance sheet effects.

Speaker #6: Other operating expenses decreased slightly to 20% of total costs, with the logistics and administrative costs being the largest components. With a share of 9%, energy costs were broadly on par with the prior level, thanks to an effective energy management and hedging.

Speaker #6: Onto the cash flow bridge on page 12. Starting with operating EBITDA, EBITDA, which was at 570 million euro, offset by a 525 million euro increase in networking capital, which reflects the impact of higher metal prices, seasonal effects, and the ramp-up of our strategic projects.

Speaker #6: Aurubis has a track record of generating reliable cash flows; however, as we regularly highlight, cash flow at any reporting date can be influenced by temporary balance sheet effects.

Speaker #6: Including tax payments of 73 million euro, net cash flow amounted to minus 28 million euro, compared to plus 357 million euro in the prior year.

Steffen Hoffmann: Including tax payments of EUR 73 million, net cash flow amounted to EUR -28 million, compared to EUR +357 million in the prior year. Cash outflow for investing activities totaled EUR 322 million and was primarily related to Aurubis Richmond and the new precious metals refinery in Hamburg. As I have mentioned during the Q2 conference call, we expected a significantly negative free cash flow for Q3 of this fiscal year 2025/2026, mainly due to temporary inventory buildup in connection with the phase commissioning of the tankhouse expansion in Pirdop, as well as normal seasonality. In light of this, the free cash flow of EUR -365 million came in as expected. Cash generation remains a key management priority, and we continue to expect net cash flow for the full year to exceed the prior year level.

Speaker #6: Cash outflow for investing activities totaled €322 million and was primarily related to Aurubis Richmond and the new precious metals refinery in Hamburg. As I mentioned during the Q2 conference call, we expected a significantly negative free cash flow for Q3 of this fiscal year 25/26, mainly due to temporary inventory buildup in connection with the phased commissioning of the tankhouse expansion in Pierdop, as well as normal seasonality.

Speaker #6: So, in light of this, the free cash flow of minus 365 million euro came in as expected. Cash generation remains a key management priority, and we continue to expect net cash flow for the full year to exceed the prior year level, we also remain on track to achieve a free cash flow before dividends at least at break-even level for the full fiscal year.

Steffen Hoffmann: We also remain on track to achieve a free cash flow before dividends, at least at break-even level for the full fiscal year. After P&L and cash flow, let me briefly touch on our balance sheet and key financial ratios. The equity ratio stood at close to 49%, compared to around 56% in the prior year. While the equity increased by more than EUR 250 million, the mentioned increase in balance sheet in total more than compensated for this effect. For the full year, we expect the KVI to be closer to the level of the previous year. In consequence of the change in the net financial position, our debt coverage increased to 1.0 from 0.6 in the prior year, which is still well below our target of not more than three.

Speaker #6: After P&L and cash flow, let me briefly touch on our balance sheet and key financial ratios. The equity ratio stood at close to 49% compared to around 56% in the prior year.

Speaker #6: While the equity increased by more than 250 million euro, the mentioned increase in balance sheet in total more than compensated for this effect. For the full year, we expect the KBI to be closer to the level of the previous year.

Speaker #6: In consequence of the change in the net financial position, our debt coverage increased to 1.0 from 0.6 in the prior year which is still well below our target of not more than 3.

Speaker #6: Considering that we are executing one of the largest investment programs in the company's history, the ratio of 1.0 remains very moderate and underlines the continued strength of our balance sheet.

Steffen Hoffmann: Considering that we are executing one of the largest investment programs in the company's history, a ratio of 1.0 remains very moderate and underlines the continued strength of our balance sheet. Capital expenditure increased significantly versus last year, reflecting that the strategic CapEx program is almost behind us. Capital employed increased by around EUR 630 million to EUR 4.8 billion, reflecting both our strategic growth investments and the temporary working capital buildup, which we highlighted earlier. Let's now turn to the outlook for the key drivers of our business for the remainder of the current fiscal year, 2025/2026. Overall, the raw material markets remain competitive but manageable. Our diversified sourcing setup and long-term supply relationships continue to support stable operations despite challenging market conditions. Concentrate markets are still the most demanding area.

Speaker #6: Capital expenditure decreased significantly versus last year, reflecting that the strategic capex program is almost behind us. Capital employed increased by around €630 million to €4.8 billion, reflecting both our strategic growth investments and the temporary working capital buildup, which we highlighted earlier.

Speaker #6: Let's now turn to the outlook for the key drivers of our business for the remainder of the current fiscal year 25/26. Overall, the raw material markets remain competitive but manageable.

Speaker #6: Our diversified sourcing setup and long-term supply relationships continue to support stable operations despite challenging market conditions. Concentrate markets are still the most demanding area.

Speaker #6: We continue to expect concentrate availability to stay tight, and TCRCs to remain under pressure, as global smelting demand continues to exceed mining supply. In recycling markets, conditions remain broadly stable.

Steffen Hoffmann: We continue to expect concentrate availability to stay tight and TC/RCs to remain under pressure as global smelting demand continues to exceed mine supply. In recycling markets, conditions remain broadly stable. While a modest seasonal decline in availability is typical towards summer, we currently see no material change in the overall supply situation and continue to view recycling markets as supportive. Regarding the euro-US dollar exchange rate, we maintain our previous view despite some fluctuations in the last quarter. The outlook for sulfuric acid remains highly favorable. Given the Chinese export restrictions and ongoing logistical disruptions, we anticipate the current market environment to prevail. Metal prices continue to provide support, particularly for copper and precious metals, and demand for our copper products remains healthy. The outlook remains intact overall as we are actively navigating challenges.

Speaker #6: While a modest seasonal decline in availability is typical toward summer, we currently see no material change in the overall supply situation and continue to view recycling markets as supportive.

Speaker #6: Regarding the euro/US dollar exchange rate, we maintain our previous view despite some fluctuations in the last quarter. And the outlook for sulfuric acid remains highly favorable.

Speaker #6: Given the Chinese export restrictions, and ongoing logistical disruptions, we anticipate the current market environment to prevail. Metal prices continue to provide support, particularly for copper and precious metals, and demand for our copper products remains healthy.

Speaker #6: Thus, the outlook remains intact overall as we are actively navigating challenges. Based on our performance of the first nine months of the fiscal year, we confirm our full year guidance of 700 million to 800 million operating EBITDA and 425 million to 525 million operating EBT, and expect the EBT to come in at the upper end of the guidance range.

Steffen Hoffmann: Based on our performance of the first nine months of the fiscal year, we confirm our full year guidance of EUR 700 million to 800 million operating EBITDA and EUR 425 million to 525 million operating EBT, and expect the EBT to come in at the upper end of the guidance range. For the operating ROCE on group level, we maintain the communicated level between 10% and 15%. While net cash flow we expect to be above last year's level, as the previously discussed temporarily higher inventory levels should be reversed until fiscal year-end. Following our net cash flow guidance and the projected reversal of inventory buildups, we also continue to anticipate a free cash flow before dividend, at least at the break-even level, for which we see ourselves being on track.

Speaker #6: For the operating ROC on group level, we maintain the communicated level between 10 and 12%. While net cash flow we expect to be above last year's level as the previously discussed temporarily higher inventory levels should be reversed until fiscal year end.

Speaker #6: Following our net cash flow guidance and the projected reversal of continue to anticipate a free cash flow before dividend at least at the break-even level, for which we see ourselves being on track.

Speaker #6: Still, please bear in mind that the usual working capital fluctuations in high metal price environments may affect our free cash flow at the balance sheet date.

Steffen Hoffmann: Still, please bear in mind that the usual working capital fluctuations in high metal price environments may affect our free cash flow at the balance sheet date. Having outlined all of this, let me remind you that all of these guidance figures are built on our current market assumptions as usual, and do not account for major unforeseen disruptions. With this, I'd like to hand back over to Thomas.

Speaker #6: Having outlined all of this, let me remind you that all of these guidance figures are built on our current market assumptions as usual, and do not account for major unforeseen disruptions and with this, I'd like to hand back over to Toralf.

Speaker #1: Thank you very much. Steffen, I would like now to turn to our strategic projects, and start with complex recycling Hamburg, where we have reached an important milestone during this quarter.

Toralf Haag: Thank you very much, Steffen. I would like now to turn to our strategic projects and start with Complex Recycling Hamburg, where we have reached an important milestone during this quarter. After first production in May, we officially commissioned the plant and celebrated its inauguration in July. The project was delivered as planned, demonstrating our disciplined approach to project execution. Since startup, the ramp-up has progressed well, and we exceeded our internal targets for the first nine months of operation. This success reflects the excellent preparation and collaboration of the teams on-site. We have already reached the targeted feed mix of internal and external raw materials. This is encouraging from both a technical and a commercial perspective. Looking ahead, we will steadily increase throughput, and we expect the plan to contribute to the group's earnings through TC/RCs and metal results incurred from complex raw materials.

Speaker #1: After first production in May, we officially commissioned the plant and celebrated its inauguration in July. The project was delivered as planned, demonstrating our disciplined approach to project execution.

Speaker #1: Since startup, the ramp-up has progressed well, and we exceeded our internal targets for the first nine months of operation. This success reflects the excellent preparation and collaboration of the teams on site.

Speaker #1: We have already reached the targeted feed mix of internal and external raw materials. This is encouraging from both a technical and a commercial perspective.

Speaker #1: Looking ahead, we will steadily increase throughput, and we expect the plant to contribute to the group's earnings through TCRCs and metal result incurred from complex raw materials.

Speaker #1: Overall, CRH is proving to be a success, as its strengthens our smelter network by unlocking the unique opportunities it offers. Let me now walk you through the recent developments in the US.

Toralf Haag: Overall, CRH is proving to be a success as it strengthens our smelter network by unlocking the unique opportunities it offers. Let me now walk you through the recent developments in the US. We consider Aurubis Richmond a key pillar of our growth strategy, and step by step, we are moving ahead, technically and commercially. That being said, during the last quarters, we already indicated that ramping up a greenfield smelter is taking longer than originally anticipated, as we experienced technical challenges during ramp-up. Accordingly, we corrected the expected EBITDA contribution from Richmond for the fiscal year 2025/2026 to a level below break-even. The longer ramp-up of key equipment is causing commissioning of both phases to overlap, leading to an overall longer ramp-up period. From today's perspective, ramp-up for phase I will be completed in fiscal year 2026/2027, and ramp-up for phase II in fiscal year 2027/2028, respectively.

Speaker #1: We consider Arubis Richmond a key pillar of our growth strategy and step-by-step we are moving ahead. Technically, and commercially. That being said, during the last quarters, we already indicated that ramping up a greenfield smelter is taking longer than originally anticipated.

Speaker #1: As we are experiencing technical challenges during ramp-up, we have accordingly corrected the expected EBITDA contribution from Richmond for fiscal year '25/'26 to a level below break-even.

Speaker #1: The longer ramp-up of key equipment is causing commissioning of both phases to overlap, leading to an overall longer ramp-up period. From today's perspective, ramp-up for phase one will be completed in fiscal year 2026/27, and ramp-up for phase two in fiscal year 2027/28, respectively.

Speaker #1: Furthermore, given the overall heterogeneous and dynamic nature of the recycling market, raw material qualities and quantities have naturally shifted from the original plan as well, which impacts the technical side to some extent too.

Toralf Haag: Furthermore, given the overall heterogeneous and dynamic nature of the recycling market, raw material qualities and quantities have naturally shifted from the original plan, as well, which impacts the technical side to some extent, too. Against the background of the technical and commercial issues, Aurubis Richmond's midterm earning profile shifts out by one year. We are actively addressing both angles, the technical as well as the commercial ramp-up. In light of the longer time needed, we expect that in the current fiscal year, Aurubis Richmond will contribute to the group's earnings to a similar degree as last year. This is baked in today's reiterated guidance for fiscal year 2025/2026, where we see ourselves at the upper end of the EUR 425 to 525 million corridor for the group.

Speaker #1: Against the background of the technical and commercial issues, Aurubis Richmond's midterm earnings profile shifts out by one year. We are actively addressing both angles—the technical as well as the commercial ramp-up.

Speaker #1: In light of the longer time needed, we expect that in the current fiscal year, Aurubis Richmond will contribute to the group's earnings to a similar degree as last year.

Speaker #1: This is baked into today's reiterated guidance for fiscal year 25/26, where we see ourselves at the upper end of the 425 to 525 million euro corridor for the group.

Speaker #1: For the outer years, positive effects from resulting resulting from higher metal prices and approved commercial teams terms support the earnings outlook, while the outlook while the forecast also reflects the updated assumptions on ramp-up timing, the feed mix, and metal contents.

Toralf Haag: For the outer years, positive effects resulting from higher metal prices and approved commercial terms support the earnings outlook, while the forecast also reflects the updated assumptions on ramp-up timing, the feed mix, and metal contents. After full technical and commercial ramp-up, as of today, we expect the medium-term annual EBITDA contribution from Richmond to the Aurubis group to be in a healthy territory. Not exactly as the previous target level, still in the triple-digit million EUR region. As has been stated in the beginning, we are convinced that Aurubis Richmond creates a foundation for us to further grow in the US, and we are managing the technical and commercial complexities of the business. Finally, I would also like to briefly update you on the tankhouse expansion in Pirdop, another important cornerstone within our strategic investment program.

Speaker #1: After full technical and commercial ramp-up, as of today, we expect the medium-term annual EBITDA contribution from Richmond to the Aurubis Group to be in a healthy territory—not exactly at the previous year's targets, as the previous target level was still in the triple-digit million euro region.

Speaker #1: As I've stated in the beginning, we are convinced that Arubis Richmond creates a foundation for us to further grow in the US, and we are managing the technical and commercial complexities of the business.

Speaker #1: Finally, I would also like to briefly update you on the tank house expansion in Piltdrop. Another important cornerstone within our strategic investment program. The this project is designed to remove a bottleneck in our production network and increase annual cathode production by 120,000 tons.

Toralf Haag: This project is designed to remove a bottleneck in our production network and increase annual cathode production by 120,000 tons. Construction work and installation of the main equipment have been completed. The gradual commissioning process is now underway, and we expect operations to commence in autumn 2026. Once fully ramped up, the expansion will increase cathode production and contribute to our gross margin through higher products and premiums, while also optimizing logistics costs. With this project, we add another building block to our smarter network, increasing resilience and seizing opportunities. Coming to a close, let me summarize the key takeaways from today's presentation. For the first nine months, Aurubis delivered an operating EBT of EUR 374 million, which is 31% above the prior year level.

Speaker #1: Construction work and installation of the main equipment have been completed. The gradual commissioning process is now underway, and we expect operations to commence in autumn 2026.

Speaker #1: Once fully ramped up, the expansion will increase cathode production and contribute to our gross margin through higher products and premiums, while also optimizing logistics costs.

Speaker #1: With this project, we add another building block to our smelter network, increasing resilience in seizing opportunities. Coming to a close, let me summarize the key takeaways from today's presentation.

Speaker #1: For the first nine months, Arubis delivered an operating EBITDA of 374 million euros, which is 31% above the prior year level. Operating EBITDA in the third quarter is at 149 million, euros, and is supported by an improved metal result, increased revenues from processing, recycling materials, as well as from sulfuric acid and copper products.

Toralf Haag: Operating EBT in the Q3 is at EUR 149 million and is supported by an improved metal result, increased revenues from processing recycling materials, as well as from sulfuric acid and copper products. Our cash flow in the Q3 was temporarily impacted by an inventory buildup, largely in connection with strategic projects, which we expect to reverse until fiscal year-end. Thus, we maintain our target to achieve a free cash flow before dividend break-even at the minimum for the fiscal year 2025/2026. On the back of our improved performance, the group operating return on capital employed increased while still being dampened by the temporary inventory spike. With respect to our strategic project pipeline, we continue to make progress. CRH was officially inaugurated. The tankhouse expansion in Pirdop is close to commissioning. In Richmond, we are addressing the extended ramp-up and shifted earnings profile.

Speaker #1: Our cash flow in the third quarter was temporarily impacted by an inventory buildup, largely in connection with strategic projects, which we expect to reverse by fiscal year end.

Speaker #1: Thus, we maintain our target to achieve a free cash flow before dividend break-even. At the minimum, for the fiscal year 25/26. On the back of our improved performance, the group operating return on capital employed increased while still being dampened by the temporary inventory spike.

Speaker #1: With respect to our strategic project pipeline, we continue to make progress. CRH was officially inaugurated. The tank house expansion is in Piltdrop is close to commissioning, and in Richmond we are addressing the extended ramp-up and shifted earnings profile.

Speaker #1: For the remainder of the fiscal year, we expect that higher metal prices earnings from recycling raw materials as well as higher contributions from the copper products and sulfuric acid business will mitigate the effects from the challenging concentrate markets.

Toralf Haag: For the remainder of the fiscal year, we expect that higher metal prices, earnings from recycling raw materials, as well as higher contributions from the copper products and sulfuric acid business, will mitigate the effects from the challenging concentrate markets. Therefore, we confirm our guidance for the fiscal year 2025/2026 and expect operating EBT to come in around

Speaker #1: Therefore, we confirm our guidance for the fiscal year 25/26 and expect operating EBITDA to come in around the upper end of the forecast range of 425 to 525 million euros.

Toralf Haag: The upper end of the forecast range of EUR 425 to 525 million. With this, I would like to hand back over to Elke Brinkmann.

Speaker #1: And with this, I would like to hand back over to Elke Brinkmann.

Speaker #2: Thanks, Toralf and Stefan. Before we open the line for your questions, I would like to provide you with. Of the next events. Our annual report for fiscal year 25/26 will be released on December 2nd, and followed by the Q1 publication on February 4th and the AGM on February 11th.

Elke Brinkmann: Thanks, Toralf and Steffen. Before we open the line for your questions, I would like to provide you with an overview of the next events. Our annual report for fiscal year 2025, 2026 will be released on 2 December, followed by the Q1 publication on 4 February, and the AGM on 11 February. That being said, I'll now hand over to the operator for the first question.

Speaker #2: That being said, I now hand over to the operator for the first question.

Speaker #3: Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star 9 and pound key on your telephone keypad. If you would like to revoke your question, press star 3 and pound key.

Operator 3: Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star nine and pound key on your telephone keypad. If you would like to revoke your question, press star three and pound key. You can also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand if you would like to ask a question. We already have a few questions submitted. The first question goes to Deutsche Bank from Bastian Synagowitz. The floor is yours, Bastian.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, if you would like to ask a question, please press star nine and pound key on your telephone keypad. If you would like to revoke your question, press star three and pound key. You can also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand if you would like to ask a question. We already have a few questions submitted. The first question goes to Deutsche Bank from Bastian Synagowitz. The floor is yours, Bastian.

Speaker #3: You can also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand if you would like to ask a question. We already have a few questions submitted.

Speaker #3: The first question

Speaker #3: goes to Deutsche Bank from Bastian Zinagovitz. The floor is yours. Bastian.

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: Hi. Good afternoon all, and thanks for taking my questions. I have a couple and I will take them one by one, if that is okay, starting off on guidance here. I guess if we take the upper end of your guidance, it implies a flat pretax of around EUR 150 million in Q4. I guess you have the Lünen standstill, which is now completed, which reverses roughly EUR 10 million in earnings. You got the sulfuric contributions, which will be higher, which you mentioned already, as well as the metal result. Just looking at the prices of gold, silver, and copper, I guess there should be still definitely some room to go considering your hedge duration. I guess all of these are pretty positive drivers, and potentially powerful. You mentioned TC/RCs, but I guess those are mostly contracted.

Bastian Synagowitz: Hi. Good afternoon all, and thanks for taking my questions. I have a couple and I will take them one by one, if that is okay, starting off on guidance here. I guess if we take the upper end of your guidance, it implies a flat pretax of around EUR 150 million in Q4. I guess you have the Lünen standstill, which is now completed, which reverses roughly EUR 10 million in earnings. You got the sulfuric contributions, which will be higher, which you mentioned already, as well as the metal result. Just looking at the prices of gold, silver, and copper, I guess there should be still definitely some room to go considering your hedge duration. I guess all of these are pretty positive drivers, and potentially powerful. You mentioned TC/RCs, but I guess those are mostly contracted.

Speaker #4: take them one by one if that's okay, and maybe starting off on guidance here. So I guess if we take the upper end of your guidance, it implies a flat pre-tax of around 150 million in the fourth quarter.

Speaker #4: And I guess you've got the Lünensternstille, which is now completed, which reverses roughly 10 million in earnings. You got the sulfuric contributions, which will be higher, which you mentioned already, as well as the metal result.

Speaker #4: Just looking at the prices of gold, silver, and copper, I guess there should be still definitely some room to go considering your hedge duration.

Speaker #4: I guess all of these are pretty positive drivers and potentially powerful, and you mentioned TCRCs, but I guess those are mostly contracted. So what is going against you here?

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: What is going against you here to basically just guide for flat EBIT in the last quarter, and what are the points to keep in mind? That is my first question.

Bastian Synagowitz: What is going against you here to basically just guide for flat EBIT in the last quarter, and what are the points to keep in mind? That is my first question.

Speaker #4: To basically still basically just guide for flat EBITDA in the last quarter. And what are the points to keep in mind? That's my first question.

Speaker #1: Thank you, Bastian. So, I think it's important to reiterate here that during the course of the year, we've increased the guidance two times. With this call, we stayed within the guidance range, but we added language that we see ourselves at the upper end of the range.

Steffen Hoffmann: Thank you, Bastian. I think it is important to reiterate here that during the course of the year, we have increased the guidance two times. With this call, we stayed within a guidance range, but we added the language that we see ourselves at the upper end of the range. We did not say the upper half. We said the upper end of the range. What we are trying to say here is that we look into a good Q4. We look into a Q4 that should be in the similar ballpark as Q3, but still for the full year, within the range at the upper end. If we look a bit at the drivers here, obviously sulfuric acid helping a lot, helped quite nicely in Q3. There is an upside in Q4 versus Q3.

Speaker #1: We did not say the upper half. We said the upper end of the range. So what we are trying to say here is that we look into a good fourth quarter—we look into a Q4 that should be in the similar ballpark as Q3, but still for the full year within the range at the upper end.

Speaker #1: So if we look a bit at the drivers here, obviously sulfuric acid helping a lot, helped quite nicely in Q3, but yeah, there's an upside in Q4 versus Q3.

Speaker #1: On the metal, for the time being, I would assume it can be similar. Q4 as Q3 on a good level, similar. Same for products on a similar level.

Steffen Hoffmann: On the metal for the time being, I would assume it can be similar, Q4 as Q3 on a good level. Same for products on a similar level, but a good level. RCs similar on a good level. I think there are two things. One is TC/RCs, where we have seen a gradual, more difficult situation during the quarter. We base our assumptions here on the fact that the Q4 TC/RC impact should be visible versus Q3. Finally, what you normally see, at least at our end in the seasonality of cost in the last quarter of a fiscal year, we would expect that costs are a bit more pronounced, a bit more expelled. Once again, we are trying to send a constructive message here on Q4, and we are quite happy with how the year is developing.

Speaker #1: But at a good level. RCs are similar—on a good level. And then, I think there are two things. One is TCRCs, where we have seen a gradually more difficult situation during the quarter.

Speaker #1: So we bake our assumptions here on the fact that Q4 TCRC impact should be visible versus Q3. And then finally, what you always see, at least at our end in the seasonality of cost in the last quarter of a fiscal year, we would expect that costs are a bit more pronounced, a bit more expelled.

Speaker #1: But once again, we are trying to send a constructive message here on Q4 and we are quite happy with how the year is evolving.

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: Mm-hmm. Okay, great. Very clear. Thank you, Steffen. Maybe moving on to the situation in Richmond, I guess you basically cut your expectations for the project as most people just turned a bit more positive given the policy backdrop. I guess there's metal prices, there's also pretty decent scrap RC levels over in the US. Some of the factors which you highlighted as to why you're cutting the target here sound a bit more temporary in nature. Which are really the drivers for you to impair the outlook structurally? Is there also any early indication on where you expect the EBITDA number for the project contribution to go next year? Maybe also just adding to that, has your D&A schedule changed with the delay?

Bastian Synagowitz: Mm-hmm. Okay, great. Very clear. Thank you, Steffen. Maybe moving on to the situation in Richmond, I guess you basically cut your expectations for the project as most people just turned a bit more positive given the policy backdrop. I guess there's metal prices, there's also pretty decent scrap RC levels over in the US. Some of the factors which you highlighted as to why you're cutting the target here sound a bit more temporary in nature. Which are really the drivers for you to impair the outlook structurally? Is there also any early indication on where you expect the EBITDA number for the project contribution to go next year? Maybe also just adding to that, has your D&A schedule changed with the delay?

Speaker #4: Okay, great. Very clear. Thank you. Stefan. Then maybe moving on to the situation in Richmond and I guess you basically cut your expectations for the project as most people just turned a bit more positive given the policy backdrop.

Speaker #4: I guess there's metal prices, and there's also pretty decent scrap RC levels over in the air. So some of the factors which you highlighted as to why you're cutting the target here, sound a bit more temporary in nature.

Speaker #4: So which are really the drivers for you to impair the outlook structurally? And is there also any early indication on where you expect the EBITDA number for the product project contribution to go next year?

Speaker #4: Maybe also just adding to that, has your DNA schedule changed with the delay?

Speaker #1: Yeah, Bastian, let me start. On the structure, we firstly, like we said in the presentation, we firmly believe that this is the right investment and that this will significantly contribute to Aruba's earnings in the future.

Steffen Hoffmann: Yeah, Bastian, let me start on the structure. Firstly, like we said in the presentation, we firmly believe that this is the right investment and that this will significantly contribute to Aurubis earnings in the future. The main reason is the technical ramp-up, where we experienced some difficulties, which you can say is on the one hand normal when you have a greenfield expansion. On the other hand, we had to adapt our technical capabilities also to the feed mix, which is a little bit different in the US than it is in Europe. We are in a learning phase there, but we are producing metal. It's below our expectations. We are confident that this will improve over the course of the next months. The main reason for the delay

Toralf Haag: Yeah, Bastian, let me start on the structure. Firstly, like we said in the presentation, we firmly believe that this is the right investment and that this will significantly contribute to Aurubis earnings in the future. The main reason is the technical ramp-up, where we experienced some difficulties, which you can say is on the one hand normal when you have a greenfield expansion. On the other hand, we had to adapt our technical capabilities also to the feed mix, which is a little bit different in the US than it is in Europe. We are in a learning phase there, but we are producing metal. It's below our expectations. We are confident that this will improve over the course of the next months. The main reason for the delay is some technical issues we have in phase one.

Speaker #1: The main reason is the technical ramp-up where we experienced some difficulties, which you can say is on the one hand normal when you have a greenfield expansion.

Speaker #1: On the other hand, we had to adapt our technical capabilities also to the feed mix, which is a little bit different in the US than it is in Europe.

Speaker #1: So we are in a, I would say, in a learning phase there, but we are producing metal. But we lower our expectations. But we are confident that this will improve over the course of the next months.

Speaker #1: So the main reason for the delay is some technical issues we had in phase one. We don't expect to have the same amount of technical issues in phase two.

Toralf Haag: is some technical issues we have in phase one. We don't expect that we have the same amount of technical issues in phase two when we ramp that up, because we will learn from phase one. The commercial terms, like we said, we are establishing ourselves in the market. We don't see this as a major issue going forward. We have established relationships with the raw material, with the recycling suppliers in the West because we had this relationship before, so there's long-term trusted relationships. We are currently well supplied in the plant, we continue to play a role in that market. We are positive on the overall outlook of the recycling market for the future, also in the West, because copper demand is rising, and as you know, they cannot fulfill all their copper demand by internal sources, not by concentrates and recycling materials.

Toralf Haag: We don't expect that we have the same amount of technical issues in phase two when we ramp that up, because we will learn from phase one. The commercial terms, like we said, we are establishing ourselves in the market. We don't see this as a major issue going forward. We have established relationships with the raw material, with the recycling suppliers in the West because we had this relationship before, so there's long-term trusted relationships. We are currently well supplied in the plant, we continue to play a role in that market. We are positive on the overall outlook of the recycling market for the future, also in the West, because copper demand is rising, and as you know, they cannot fulfill all their copper demand by internal sources, not by concentrates and recycling materials.

Speaker #1: When we ran that up, because we will learn from phase one. The commercial terms, like we said, we are establishing ourselves in the market.

Speaker #1: We don't see this as a major issue going forward. We have established relationships with the raw material, with the recycling suppliers in the US, because we had these relationships before.

Speaker #1: So there's long-term trusted relationships. We are currently well supplied in the plant. And we continue to play a role in that market. And we are positive on the overall outlook of the recycling market for the future.

Speaker #1: Also in the US, because copper demand is rising and as you know, they cannot fulfill all their copper demand by internal sources, not by concentrates and recycling materials.

Speaker #1: And we also think there will be some benefits in the next months by the further tightening of the US government of the export of recycling materials to other parts of the world.

Toralf Haag: We also think there will be some benefits in the next months by the further tightening of the US government of the export of recycling materials to other parts of the world. In summary, again, the main cause for what we mentioned for the delay is technical issues in the ramp-up of phase one. Maybe Steffen to the outlook.

Speaker #1: So in summary, again, the main cause for the what we mentioned for the delay is technical issues in the ramp-up of phase one. Maybe Stefan to the outlook?

Speaker #4: Yeah. Bastian, you asked about, let's say, an indication for an EBITDA for next year. I mean, we all know that today is probably not the point in time where we really want to guide for next year.

Steffen Hoffmann: Yeah. Fabian, you asked about, let's say, an indication for an EBITDA for next year. We all know that today is probably not the point in time where we want to guide for next year. Still, to get into the topic you alluded to, Toralf said in his speech that the earnings profile for Richmond shifts out by 1 year. We did start this fiscal year with an addition to achieve EBITDA breakeven for this fiscal year. We stated today that this is not the case anymore. If you apply this rule of thumb of shifting out by 1 year, we roughly can say that, obviously, we definitely want to achieve an EBITDA breakeven next year.

Speaker #4: But still, to get into the topic, you alluded to 12, 7 speech that the earnings out by one year. We did start this fiscal year with an ambition to achieve EBITDA break even for this fiscal year.

Speaker #4: We stated today that this is not the case anymore. But if you apply this rule of thumb of shifting out by one year, we roughly can say that obviously we definitely want to achieve an EBITDA break even next year.

Speaker #4: Okay, okay. Great. That's helpful. And the DNA schedule, I guess, has not changed versus the original guidance?

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: Okay. Great. That's helpful. The D&A schedule, I guess, has not changed versus the original guidance?

Bastian Synagowitz: Okay. Great. That's helpful. The D&A schedule, I guess, has not changed versus the original guidance?

Speaker #1: Right. It has not. Sorry, we were muted here. It has not changed. That's correct.

Steffen Hoffmann: Right. It has not. Sorry, we were muted here. It has not changed. That's correct.

Speaker #4: Got you. Okay. And sorry to come back just on the structure shift. So from what I understood, you basically maybe walked back a little bit the 170 million EBITDA contribution target, which you had given earlier.

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: Got you. Okay. Sorry to come back just on the structure shift. From what I understood, you basically maybe walked back a little bit the EUR 170 million EBITDA contribution target, which you had given earlier. I guess you wouldn't have done that if you would still expect EUR 160 or maybe EUR 150 or whatever. Seems like we may come in below that number. Did I understand that correctly? Again, from everything you talked about earlier, these sound all three temporary, basically, headwinds, which I guess you say yourself you'll be fixing over time. If you walk back the EUR 170, what are the lasting headwinds relative to what you were aiming for before?

Bastian Synagowitz: Got you. Okay. Sorry to come back just on the structure shift. From what I understood, you basically maybe walked back a little bit the EUR 170 million EBITDA contribution target, which you had given earlier. I guess you wouldn't have done that if you would still expect EUR 160 or maybe EUR 150 or whatever. Seems like we may come in below that number. Did I understand that correctly? Again, from everything you talked about earlier, these sound all three temporary, basically, headwinds, which I guess you say yourself you'll be fixing over time. If you walk back the EUR 170, what are the lasting headwinds relative to what you were aiming for before?

Speaker #4: And I guess you wouldn't have done that if you would still expect 160 or maybe 150 or whatever. So it seems like we may come in below that number.

Speaker #4: Did I understand that correctly? And again, from everything you talked about earlier, these all sound like very temporary, basically, headwinds, which I guess you say yourself you'll be fixing over time.

Speaker #4: So if you walk back the 170, what are the lasting headwinds relative to what you were aiming for before?

Speaker #1: I mean, it's correct that today we are saying that we see the EBITDA contribution from Richmond to the Aruba's group in healthy territory, but not exactly at the previous target level.

Steffen Hoffmann: It's correct that today we are saying that we see the EBITDA contribution from Richmond to the Aurubis group in healthy territory, but not exactly at the previous target level. You just alluded to the figure. It's still in a triple-digit million EUR region. With that, we are not saying that it's exactly where this triple-digit million EUR region starts. It's somewhere between where it starts and where we initially guided. We would now, as we talk here about, let's say, a midterm period, let's say we talk about the next three years ahead, I'm sure in this dynamic, but also very promising US market, there will always be some premise changes. That's why, as of today, we will not shoot exactly for a new figure.

Speaker #1: You just alluded to the figure. But it's still in a triple digit million euro region. With that, we are not saying that it's exactly where this triple digit million euro region starts.

Speaker #1: So it's somewhere between where it starts and where we initially guided. We would now, as we talk here about, let's say, a midterm period and so let's say we talk about the next three years ahead, and I'm sure in this dynamic, but also very promising US market, there will always be some premise changes.

Speaker #1: So that's why as of today, we will not shoot exactly for a new figure, but what we are trying to say, it's below this lower end of what is a triple digit figure and what has been before.

Steffen Hoffmann: What we are trying to say, it's below this lower end of what is a triple-digit figure and what has been before. Let's say a double-digit million EUR gap, between what we had initially said. What we mention here is based on a view of, let's say, the next two to three to four years that we are basing ourselves on. It would not make sense to look out further into the future. Let's say this technical ramp-up situation that Toralf has described is probably more a thing of the next two years. The commercial ramp-up is obviously also a decisive endeavor now for the next two years, and this is where we base ourselves.

Speaker #1: So let's say a double-digit million euro gap between what we had initially said. What we mention here is based on a view of, let's say, the next two to three to four years that we are basing ourselves on.

Speaker #1: It would not make sense to look out further into the future. And let's say this technical ramp-up situation that Q2 has described is probably more a thing of the next two years.

Speaker #1: And the commercial ramp-up is obviously also a decisive endeavor now for the next two years. And this is where we base ourselves. And perhaps to frame it a bit, because obviously it's absolutely right that we focus here on Richmond, but to frame it a bit, we also want to make the point that with all the strategic initiatives that the company has launched in the last years, we are confident to stay within the envelope of an EBITDA improvement in the midterm for Aruba's group of 260 million euros.

Steffen Hoffmann: Perhaps to frame it a bit, because obviously, it's absolutely right that we focus here on Richmond, but to frame it a bit, we also want to make the point that with all the strategic initiatives that the company has launched in the last years, we are confident to stay within the envelope of an EBITDA improvement in the midterm for Aurubis group of EUR 260 million. Even though we talk today about a certain piece of setback on Richmond, I think it's important to make the point that we are very comfortable as of today with the midterm EUR 260 EBITDA for the group.

Speaker #1: So even though we talk today about a certain piece of setback on Richmond, I think it's important to make the point that we are very comfortable, as of today, with the mid-term €260 million EBITDA for the group.

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: Mm-hmm. Okay, great. Very clear. Thank you. Just maybe coming back in again to the bigger picture here and the implications for the project. Maybe taking the midpoint of what may be the new target contribution for EBITDA, also considering, I guess the last disclosed budget and cost inflation, maybe also the higher startup cost, it becomes technically quite difficult for the project to still hit the 15% ROCE target, which you have on group level. I guess the project has been footing on the view that there is abundant availability of scrap and all that has been part of the reason for cutting the EBITDA target. I guess unless something materially changes, the logical conclusion would be that building another recycling smelter in the US may no longer make sense.

Bastian Synagowitz: Mm-hmm. Okay, great. Very clear. Thank you. Just maybe coming back in again to the bigger picture here and the implications for the project. Maybe taking the midpoint of what may be the new target contribution for EBITDA, also considering, I guess the last disclosed budget and cost inflation, maybe also the higher startup cost, it becomes technically quite difficult for the project to still hit the 15% ROCE target, which you have on group level. I guess the project has been footing on the view that there is abundant availability of scrap and all that has been part of the reason for cutting the EBITDA target. I guess unless something materially changes, the logical conclusion would be that building another recycling smelter in the US may no longer make sense.

Speaker #4: Okay, great. Very, very clear. Thank you. Then just maybe coming back again to the bigger picture here and the implications for the project. So maybe taking the midpoint of what may be the new target contribution for EBITDA and then also considering I guess the latest or the last disclosed budget and cost inflation maybe also the higher startup cost that becomes technically quite difficult for the project to still hit the 15% ROCE target, which you have on group level.

Speaker #4: And I guess the project has been footing on the view that there is abundant availability of scrap and now that has been part of the reason for cutting the EBITDA target.

Speaker #4: So I guess unless something materially changes the logical conclusion would be that building another recycling smelter in the US may no longer make sense.

Speaker #4: I guess what are your thoughts here and how does this impact your ambition to do another growth project in the US at all would be great to have your thoughts on that side.

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: I guess, what are your thoughts here, and how does this impact your ambition to do another growth project in the US at all? Would be great to have your thoughts on that side.

Bastian Synagowitz: I guess, what are your thoughts here, and how does this impact your ambition to do another growth project in the US at all? Would be great to have your thoughts on that side.

Toralf Haag: Outlook on the US market and the evaluation of different strategic alternatives has not changed. The demand for copper in the US will grow strongly over the next years and decades, driven by data centers, energy infrastructure, and defense. Recycling is and will stay an important pillar to satisfy that demand. Operating a metallurgical plant, we have to, like we said, adapt and fine-tune, but our view on the US market, it remains unchanged. We continue to explore opportunities to grow further in the US, while we are building the Richmond business and we see US as an attractive growth region. These strategic alternatives, as we said before, consider different alternatives, which also could potentially include another recycling smelting capacity.

Speaker #1: Our outlook on the US market and the evaluation of different strategic alternatives has not changed. The demand for copper in the US will grow strongly over the next years and decades, driven by data centers, energy infrastructure, and defense.

Speaker #1: And recycling will is and will stay an important pillar to satisfy that demand. So operating a metallurgical plant we have to, like we said, adapt and fine-tune.

Speaker #1: But our view on the US market, it remains unchanged. We continue to explore opportunities to go further in the US. While we are building the Richmond business and we see US as an attractive growth region.

Speaker #1: And these strategic alternatives, as we said before, consider different alternatives which also could potentially include another recycling smelting capacity.

Speaker #4: Okay. Just again, like from taking the parameters on the existing projects where you have visibility, again, you're not hitting your 15% return target. And I guess is then the logic that again, also the recycling smelter, you would only do if you would get government support?

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: Okay. Just again, from taking the parameters on the existing projects where you have visibility, again, you're not hitting your 15% return target. I guess just then the logic that again, also the recycling smelter you would only do if you would get government support to work the budget and capital.

Bastian Synagowitz: Okay. Just again, from taking the parameters on the existing projects where you have visibility, again, you're not hitting your 15% return target. I guess just then the logic that again, also the recycling smelter you would only do if you would get government support to work the budget and capital.

Speaker #1: You know, we take here more a long-term view. And you know, there could be also synergies between different facilities and other strategic aspects. So we see here not only the midterm view of our return on capital, but also the long-term and strategic view.

Toralf Haag: We take a more long-term view and there could be also synergies between different facilities and other strategic aspects. We see here not only the midterm view of our return on capital, but also the long-term and strategic view. Under this consideration, it could definitely make sense.

Speaker #1: And under this consideration, it could definitely make sense.

Speaker #2: And if I may add, and if I may add, I can because I think you were also referring to subsidies, right? We have made the point that for Richmond, we basically did not enjoy large-scale subsidy programs that in the meantime have evolved.

Steffen Hoffmann: If I may add, Bastian, because I think you were also referring to subsidies, right? We have made the point that for Richmond, we basically did not enjoy large-scale subsidy programs that in the meantime have evolved. If with something, let's say one of our key considerations would obviously be to become eligible to attractive US government support, and that could perhaps bridge a certain gap.

Speaker #2: So if. With something let's say one of our key considerations would obviously be to become eligible to attractive US government support and that could perhaps bridge a certain gap.

Speaker #4: Okay, great. Thanks so much for taking my questions.

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: Okay, great. Thanks so much for taking my questions.

Bastian Synagowitz: Okay, great. Thanks so much for taking my questions.

Speaker #3: Thank you. The next question goes to Bank of America, Jason, for Claude. Your line is open.

Operator 3: Thank you. The next question goes to Bank of America, Jason Fairclough. Your line is open.

Operator: Thank you. The next question goes to Bank of America, Jason Fairclough. Your line is open.

Speaker #5: Good afternoon, folks. Thanks so much for the presentation. I'm afraid I'm going to jump on the Richmond train as well, if that's okay. But I'm trying to keep my questions kind of short.

Jason Fairclough: Good afternoon, folks. Thanks so much for the presentation. I'm afraid I'm going to jump on the Richmond train as well, if that's okay, I'll try and keep my questions kind of short. Just in terms of the capital employed, and maybe this is one for Steffen. What is the capital employed today for Richmond, and what will it be by the time the facility is fully ramped up?

Speaker #5: Just in terms of the capital employed and maybe this is one for Stephan, what is the capital employed today for Richmond and what will it be by the time the facility is fully ramped up?

Speaker #1: Hello?

Toralf Haag: Hello?

Jason Fairclough: Hello?

Steffen Hoffmann: Jason, we understood very loud and clearly your question. I just look at a colleague to give me the figure. If you have further questions, go ahead with your further ones and we'll get to you obviously, in very few minutes.

Speaker #2: Jason, we understood very loud and clearly your question. And I just look at a colleague to give me the figure. So if you have further questions, then go ahead with your further ones and we'll get to you obviously in very few minutes.

Speaker #5: Okay. So second question then. So your new guided earnings triple digit millions. I think previously you and I talked about 2,400 euros per ton of blister didn't feel like it was a credible one.

Jason Fairclough: Okay. Second question. Your new guided earnings, triple digit millions. I think previously you and I talked about EUR 2,400 per ton of blister didn't feel like it was a credible one. If I pick a number, let's call it EUR 120 million, still EUR 1,700 per ton of blister feels to me quite aggressive versus other recycling operations. I'm interested to understand why you still think this facility can be so much more profitable than other recycling operations.

Speaker #5: If I pick a number and let's call it 120 million euros, still 1,700 euros per ton of blister feels to me quite aggressive versus other recycling operations.

Speaker #5: So I'm interested to understand why you still think this facility can be so much more profitable than other recycling operations.

Speaker #2: Yeah, Jason, I remember very well the exchange we had on that and the company by a very nice Priors in your office. I remember that well.

Steffen Hoffmann: Yeah, Jason, I remember very well the exchange we had on that, and accompanied by a very nice brioche in your office. I remember that well. If you look at the US recycling market and RCs the US market versus other regions of the world, you definitely see a gap or let's say an uptick on the margin on RCs in the US, and this is still the case. Actually, when we updated our business case, we were quite happy with the commercial terms we are seeing. What has changed as a part of the update, and Toralf has alluded to that, is rather the mix of the core feed, but it's not the commercial terms. In a nutshell, commercial terms that we are seeing are quite favorable and different than in other regions of the world.

Speaker #2: Yeah, I mean, if you look at the US recycling market and RCs in the US market versus other regions of the world, you definitely see a gap or let's say a uptick on the margin on RCs in the US.

Speaker #2: And this is still the case actually. When we updated our business case we were quite happy with the commercial terms. We are saying as seeing what has changed as a part of the update and the tariff has alluded to that.

Speaker #2: It's rather the mix of the core feed but it's not the commercial terms. So in a nutshell, commercial terms that we are seeing are quite favorable.

Speaker #2: And different that in other regions of the world. Second piece, to your question is that with the setup of Richmond, we are basically targeting especially those pieces of the value chain that are quite interesting.

Steffen Hoffmann: Second piece to your question is that with the setup of Richmond, we are basically targeting, especially those pieces of the value chain that are quite interesting. That's why, as of today, Richmond is not going all the way till the anode and the cathode because that part of the value chain that Richmond is addressing is just a more profitable one. Obviously metal result and metal price development is really supporting the case here.

Speaker #2: And that's why as of today, Richmond is not going all the way till the anode and the cathode because that part of the value chain that Richmond is addressing is the more profitable one.

Speaker #2: And obviously, metal results and metal price development are really supporting the case here.

Speaker #5: Okay. So if we think about the derating of.

Jason Fairclough: Okay. If we think about the de-rating.

Steffen Hoffmann: Your question.

Speaker #2: Your question is.

Speaker #5: Sorry, go ahead.

Jason Fairclough: Sorry, go ahead.

Steffen Hoffmann: Sorry, Jason. Your question on capital employed for Richmond is around EUR 800 to 850 million.

Speaker #2: Sorry, Jason. Your question on capital employed for Richmond is around 800 to 850 million euros.

Speaker #5: Okay, thank you. In terms of the derating of the profitability, is it higher operating costs or are we actually just going to end up with lower blister production?

Jason Fairclough: Okay. Thank you. In terms of the de-rating of the profitability, is it higher operating costs or are we actually just going to end up with lower blister production?

Speaker #2: Both.

Steffen Hoffmann: Both.

Speaker #5: Both. Okay. And I guess, lastly, to come back to this tariff question, where are you in terms of...

Jason Fairclough: Both. Okay. I guess lastly, to come back to this tariff question, where are you in terms of your.

Speaker #2: Sorry, I need to be sorry. Jason, I need to be more precise. It's both pieces. So, let's say it's higher cost, and on the revenue side, it's lower revenues—but it's not lower quantities, just lower revenues.

Steffen Hoffmann: Sorry, I need to be more precise.

Jason Fairclough: Okay.

Steffen Hoffmann: It's both pieces. Let's say it's higher cost and it's on the revenue side, it's lower revenues, but it's not lower quantities, but it's lower revenues because of unfavorable mix.

Speaker #2: Because of unfavorable mix.

Speaker #5: And so should I read into that that there's less precious than you thought there might be?

Jason Fairclough: should I read into that there's less precious than you thought there might be?

Speaker #2: No, that relates to we need to show a certain piece of flexibility on the input mix. So we need to deviate a bit from the core feed.

Steffen Hoffmann: No, that relates to we need to show a certain piece of flexibility on the input mix. We need to deviate a bit from the core feed we initially had in mind. With, let's say, alternative feed, there is, from a margin perspective, a less favorable mix than in the initial business case.

Speaker #2: We initially had in mind—and with, let's say, alternative feed—there is, from a margin perspective, a less favorable mix than in the initial business case.

Speaker #5: Okay. So last one, I don't know where you guys are with thinking about tariffs. If we get tariffs in the US, do you need to think about building a copper refinery?

Jason Fairclough: Okay. Last one. I don't know where you guys are with thinking about tariffs. If we get tariffs in the US, do you need to think about building a copper refinery? Can you build a 60,000 or 70,000 tons copper refinery? Is that too small?

Speaker #5: Can you build a 60 or 70,000 ton copper refinery? Is that too small?

Steffen Hoffmann: Yes, of course, we can build that. We haven't specified the tonnage, but it would be at least that range, what you said.

Speaker #2: Yes, of course we can build that. We haven't specified the tonnage, but it would be at least that range what you said.

Speaker #5: Okay. And in terms of as it stands today, your shipping blister copper out of the US and of course the blister copper is full of good stuff.

Jason Fairclough: Okay. In terms of as it stands today, you're shipping blister copper out of the US, and of course, the blister copper is full of good stuff. Is there any, let's say, concerns around that from the US administration that they're losing critical minerals to Europe?

Speaker #5: Is there any let's say concerns around that from the US administration that they're losing critical minerals to Europe?

Speaker #2: Jason, the blister we are producing, they have all the valuable metals in it. As you know, like gold, silver and other precious metals. And in order to unlock the value from the blister and to capture the synergy potential, that we also we ship this to Europe and use the capabilities there, but we also have then the possibility to ship back to the US the finished product.

Steffen Hoffmann: Jason, the blister we are producing, they have all the valuable metals in it, as you know, like gold, silver, and other precious metals. In order to unlock the value from the blister and to capture the synergy potential, that we also ship this to Europe and use the capabilities there, but we also have then the possibility to ship back to the US the finished product. This is how the whole value chain we envision to work in the future.

Speaker #2: So this is how the whole value chain we envision to work in the future.

Speaker #5: Okay. Thanks. I'll let somebody else have a turn, but appreciate the thoughts, folks. Yeah.

Jason Fairclough: Okay, thanks. I'll let somebody else have a turn, appreciate the thoughts, folks. Yep.

Speaker #1: Thank you very much. Just a quick reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star nine and pound key on your telephone keypad.

Operator 3: Thank you very much. Just a quick reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star nine and pound key on your telephone keypad. You could also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand. The next question goes to Adahna Ekoku from Morgan Stanley. Your line's open.

Operator: Thank you very much. Just a quick reminder, if you would like to ask a question, please press star nine and pound key on your telephone keypad. You could also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand. The next question goes to Adahna Ekoku from Morgan Stanley. Your line's open.

Speaker #1: You could also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand. The next question goes to Adana Okoku from Morgan Stanley. Your line's open.

Speaker #3: Hi, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. I think we've touched a lot on Richmond, but I just have one follow-up on that mix point.

Adahna Ekoku: Hi. Good afternoon. Thank you for taking my questions. I think we've touched a lot on Aurubis Richmond. I just have one follow-up on that mix point. Can you just give a bit more detail on what exactly has changed on the mix from your initial assumptions? Is there anything, especially maybe with regards to policy, that could change or increase your flexibility on the mix that you thought you might have had?

Speaker #3: Can you just give a bit more detail on what exactly has changed on the mix from your initial assumptions? And is there anything especially maybe with regards to policy that could change or increase your flexibility on the mix that you thought you might have had?

Steffen Hoffmann: No. The effects cannot be isolated, as all the aspects are interconnected and the market remains dynamic, so we deal what we have today. As we have entered the market now on a broader scale, we have built a clearer view on the raw material qualities and which of them fit best in the current operational phase of our plant. The other raw material streams are mostly alloy scraps where different metals need to be separated in our process. We are still in this process. We are convinced that we have an attractive offering to many of our suppliers. However, we need to bear in mind that existing buyers are adapting their commercial terms as well in order to keep the material flowing. It's a complex subject. The raw material is complex.

Toralf Haag: No. The effects cannot be isolated, as all the aspects are interconnected and the market remains dynamic, so we deal what we have today. As we have entered the market now on a broader scale, we have built a clearer view on the raw material qualities and which of them fit best in the current operational phase of our plant. The other raw material streams are mostly alloy scraps where different metals need to be separated in our process. We are still in this process. We are convinced that we have an attractive offering to many of our suppliers. However, we need to bear in mind that existing buyers are adapting their commercial terms as well in order to keep the material flowing. It's a complex subject. The raw material is complex.

Speaker #2: No. The effects cannot be isolated. As all the aspects are interconnected. And the market remains dynamic. So we deal what we have today. We have entered the market now on a broader scale.

Speaker #2: We have built clearer view on the raw material qualities. And which of them fit best in the current operational phase of our plant. The other raw material streams are mostly alloy scraps where different metals need to be separated in our process.

Speaker #2: So we are still in this process. We are convinced that we have an attractive offering to many of our suppliers. However, we need to bear in mind that existing buyers are adapting their commercial terms.

Speaker #2: As well in order to keep the material flowing. So it's a complex subject. The raw material is complex. We have like Stephanie said, we have some minor deviations in our assumptions or compared to our assumptions in the feed mix.

Toralf Haag: Like Steffen has said, we have some minor deviations in our assumptions or compared to our assumptions in the feed mix. It is for us the most profitable, of course, if we have more complex materials which have higher precious metal content. Here we are seeing some deviations, which is a little bit unfavorable, but nothing to be concerned about.

Speaker #2: It is for us the most profitable, of course, if we have more complex materials, which have higher metal, higher precious metal content. And here we are seeing some deviations which is a little bit unfavorable, but nothing to be concerned about.

Speaker #3: Okay, thank you. And then maybe just on sulfuric acid, so we've touched at the kind of quarter over quarter. Improvement, is there any way you can help us to quantify this and just especially on the contracts, should we still assume that this is 85% contracted or have you perhaps shifted slightly more to spot pricing?

Adahna Ekoku: Okay. Thank you. Maybe just on sulfuric acid. We've touched at the kind of quarter-over-quarter improvement. Is there any way you can help us to quantify this? Just especially on the contracts, should we still assume that this is 85% contracted, or have you perhaps shifted slightly more to spot pricing? Also on this, thinking about the step up into Q1 as well, is it fair to assume that's similar to the quarter-over-quarter step up we're seeing this quarter, or how can we compare these?

Speaker #3: And then also on this, thinking about the step up into Q1 as well, as it's fair to assume that's similar to the quarter over quarter step up we're seeing this quarter or how can we compare these?

Speaker #2: Well, as we have said, for this fiscal year, the majority around 85% of our contracts for sulfuric acid, the sale of sulfuric acid have already been contracted.

Steffen Hoffmann: Well, as we have said, for this fiscal year, the majority, around 85% of our contracts for sulfuric acid, the sales for sulfuric acid have already been contracted. We only enjoy a minor part of our exposure to spot pricing, even though we benefit for it, but it's a minor part. In the next fiscal year, there's also a certain part contracted already, but there we will enjoy a larger portion of our contracts where we are negotiating right now in the coming months to be, not at spot rate, but at, of course, higher prices than we have contracted for this year.

Toralf Haag: Well, as we have said, for this fiscal year, the majority, around 85% of our contracts for sulfuric acid, the sales for sulfuric acid have already been contracted. We only enjoy a minor part of our exposure to spot pricing, even though we benefit for it, but it's a minor part. In the next fiscal year, there's also a certain part contracted already, but there we will enjoy a larger portion of our contracts where we are negotiating right now in the coming months to be, not at spot rate, but at, of course, higher prices than we have contracted for this year.

Speaker #2: So, we only enjoy a minor part of our exposure to spot pricing, even though we benefit from it. But it's a minor part. In the next fiscal year, there's also a certain part contracted already, but there we will enjoy a larger portion of our contracts—where we are negotiating right now in the coming months—to be not at spot rate, but at, of course, higher prices than we have contracted for this year.

Speaker #3: Okay, thank you. And anything any color on the quarter over quarter developments or?

Adahna Ekoku: Okay. Thank you. Any color on the quarter-over-quarter developments or?

Steffen Hoffmann: Yeah, I can give you a bit of color here. I would think that the sulfuric acid piece in Q4 will contribute, if we look Q4 versus Q3, I would see an upside of a small double-digit figure out of sulfuric acids Q4 over Q3. That's I think what we can say, perhaps to give one more data point for the full year, for this fiscal year, the full fiscal year, it could be in the ballpark of EUR 180 million out of sulfuric acid.

Speaker #2: Yeah, I can give you a bit of color here. I would think that the sulfuric acid piece in Q4 will contribute if we look Q4 versus Q3, I would see an upside of a small double-digit figure out of sulfuric acids Q4 over Q3.

Speaker #2: That's, I think, what we can say. And perhaps to give one more data point or for the full year, for this fiscal year, the full fiscal year, it could be in the ballpark of 180 million out of sulfuric acid.

Speaker #3: That's very helpful. Thank you very much.

Adahna Ekoku: That's very helpful. Thank you very much.

Speaker #1: Next question goes to Maxim Kogger from Odo. Please go ahead.

Operator 3: Next question goes to Maxime Kogge from Oddo. Please go ahead.

Operator: Next question goes to Maxime Kogge from Oddo. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Yeah, good afternoon, gentlemen. So my first question, yes, a follow-up on the growth project envelope. So we are currently reaffirm the target to reach 260 million euro.

Maxime Kogge: Yeah, good afternoon, gentlemen. My first question is a follow-up on the growth project envelope. Reassuringly you reaffirmed the target to reach EUR 260 million, that despite the lowering of the target for Richmond, that implies that other projects are running ahead of expectation. Can you perhaps shed some light there on which projects are outperforming versus your expectations? I guess CRH is a big building block, but is there any other project that is performing better?

Speaker #4: And at this point, the lowering of the target for Richmond, but that implies that other projects are running ahead of expectation. Can you perhaps shed some light there on which projects are performing versus your expectations?

Speaker #4: I guess CIH is a big building block, but is there any other project that is performing better?

Steffen Hoffmann: You're right. We talk about 11 strategic projects. In the midterm, the total contribution for the sum of them is the EUR 260 million, which we confirm as well today. Richmond is one of them, obviously the most prominent one of them. What are other projects and where are they on the contribution? I would refrain from now giving figures on all the 11, but I would love to do it a bit more qualitatively. The ones that I would like to highlight in terms of upside contribution potential, is the CRH, Complex Recycling Hamburg, that is a very successful project. Project just has started. Another one I would like to highlight is also what Tarov mentioned in his speech, is the tankhouse expansion in Pirdop, where obviously, the upside is on getting out a significant amount of cathodes.

Speaker #2: You're right. We talk about 11 strategic projects. They in the midterm, the total contribution for the sum of them is the 260 million euros, which we confirm as well today.

Speaker #2: And Richmond is one of them. Obviously, the most prominent one with one of them. So what our projects that what our other projects and where are they on the contribution?

Speaker #2: I would refrain, for now, from giving figures on all 11, but I would love to discuss this a bit more qualitatively. The one that I would like to highlight in terms of upside contribution potential is CRH.

Speaker #2: So complex recycling Hamburg, that is very successful project just has started. Another one I would like to highlight is also what Toralf mentioned in his speech is the tank house expansion in Peerdop, where obviously the upside is on getting out a significant amount of cathodes and this coupled with a nice copper price helps us also on the EBITDA line.

Steffen Hoffmann: This coupled with a nice copper price, helps us also on the EBITDA line. Then I would mention two more recent projects that are already ramped up and a few months more already in operations on the Belgian side, ASPA and BOB, that are also now delivering up to their plans and also delivering pieces of contribution that help delivering the EUR 260 million figure.

Speaker #2: And then I would mention two more recent projects that are already ramped up and a few months more already in operations on the Belgian side, Aspa and Bob, that are also now delivering up to their plans and also delivering pieces of contribution that help yeah, help delivering the 260 million figure.

Speaker #4: Okay, that's helpful. Yeah. And second question is on concentrated sources. So you've hinted at some structural changes going on there. So we've seen actually Antofagasta agreeing on an index-based system for its sales to contracts with the smelters.

Maxime Kogge: Okay, that's helpful. Yeah. Second question is on the concentrate sources. You've hinted at some structural changes going on there. We've seen actually Antofagasta agreeing on an index-based system for its sales to contracts with the smelters. Let's see what the negotiations around the new yearly benchmark gave us. The result is expected somewhere in October. Do you see a risk of the whole market price switches to an index-based pricing system for TC/RCs, and that would make, obviously, more difficult for you to impose yearly or multi-yearly contracts, which has been your way of operating up to now.

Speaker #4: Let's see what the negotiations around the new yearly benchmark given. This is the result is expected somewhere in October. But do you see a risk that the whole market price switches to an index price, an index-based pricing systems for TCRCs?

Speaker #4: And that would obviously make it more difficult for you to impose yearly or multi-year contracts, which has been your way of operating up to now.

Speaker #2: Maxime, as we always said, a long-term portfolio and capability to treat more complex materials. When it comes to concentrates and ables us to get better terms than the spot prices that are indicated on the market.

Toralf Haag: Maxime, as we always said, our long-term portfolio and capability to treat more complex materials when it comes to concentrates enables us to get better terms than the spot prices that are indicated on the market. However, we cannot escape the fact that the availability, like you said, on concentrate is tight, and that puts pressure on our terms. From today's perspective, we need to assume that the negative TCR environment will play a role in our negotiations for concentrate supplies in the calendar year 2027. At the same time, however, the miners are also looking to secure sulfuric acid supply, where, as we said, where the market is scarce. Both markets are somewhat intertwined, and those might be the subject of our talks with the mine suppliers. Mine supply and refined copper production are connected as well. This all plays into role.

Speaker #2: However, we cannot escape the fact that the availability, like you said, on concentrates is tight and that puts pressure on our terms. From today's perspective, we need to assume that the negative TCR environment will play a role.

Speaker #2: In our negotiations for concentrate supplies and the calendar year '27. At the same time, however, the miners are also looking to secure sulfuric acid supply.

Speaker #2: Where, as we said, where the market is scarce. Both markets are somewhat intertwined and those might be the subject of our talks with the mine suppliers.

Speaker #2: Mine supply and refined copper production are connected. As well. And so this all plays into a role. So while we expect that the negative TCR trend on spot prices will continue for a while, so we don't expect their short-term recovery.

Toralf Haag: While we expect that the negative TCR trend on spot prices will continue for a while, we don't expect their short-term recovery. Like we always said, we are not linked to these spot prices when we do long-term contracts. With the additional negotiation subject of sulfuric acid, we think we have a good basis here to come to, let's say, good agreements for Aurubis in relation to the current market environment.

Speaker #2: Like we always said, we are not linked to the spot prices when we do long-term contracts. And with the additional negotiation subject of sulfuric acids, we think we have a good basis here to come to, let's say, good agreements for Aurubis in relation to the current market environment.

Speaker #4: Okay, that's helpful. Yeah. And just for a recap on that, yeah, you mentioned that the two subjects in the sulfuric acid and TCRs are intent right, but I would have thought that sulfuric acid was only needed for littering operations by the miners.

Maxime Kogge: Okay, that's helpful. Just following up on that, you mentioned that the two subjects in the sulfuric acid and TC/RCs are intertwined, I would have thought that sulfuric acid was only needed for leaching operations by the miners. It's not necessarily the same miners that need sulfuric acid and those that sell to user concentrates also. Could you share with us the share of sulfuric acid within your mix that is sold to the miners? Or is that somehow secret?

Speaker #4: So it's not necessarily the same miners that need sulfuric acid and those that sell to use a concentrate. So could you share us with us the share of sulfuric acid within your mix that is sold to the miners or is that somehow a secret?

Speaker #2: Maxime, we don't give these concrete numbers, but you're right. It's a smaller part of our business, of our total sales of sulfuric acid. The share of sulfuric acid we sell to mines is a smaller share.

Toralf Haag: Maxime, we don't give these concrete numbers, but you are right, it's a smaller part of our business, of our total sales of sulfuric acid. The share of sulfuric acid we sell to mines is a smaller share. As you know, the mines, they do both. They do the leaching process, and they also produce concentrates.

Speaker #2: And as you know, the mines, they do both. They do the leaching process and they also produce concentrates.

Maxime Kogge: Okay. I stop it here. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Okay. I'll stop it here. Thank you.

Speaker #1: Before moving on to the last question that's submitted, just a quick reminder. STAR 9 and Pound Key on your telephone keypad for asking a question.

Operator 3: Before moving on to the last question that's submitted, just a quick reminder, star nine and pound key on your telephone keypad for asking a question. You can also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand. The question goes to Kepler Cheuvreux, Boris Bourdet. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Operator: Before moving on to the last question that's submitted, just a quick reminder, star nine and pound key on your telephone keypad for asking a question. You can also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand. The question goes to Kepler Cheuvreux, Boris Bourdet. Your line is open. Please go ahead.

Speaker #1: You can also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand. The question goes to Kepler Chevreux, Boris Bordo. Your line is open.

Speaker #1: Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. Just a very quick follow-up on Richmond. To check that I understand quickly. So your first assumption was on certain quality of mix.

Boris Bourdet: Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for taking my question. Just a very quick follow-up on Richmond to check that I understand quickly. Your first assumption was on certain quality of mix. Now, my understanding would be that you are missing in this mix maybe some precious metal contents that would explain the double-digit structural decrease in your EBITDA midterm contribution. Yeah, that's the first question, just to check.

Speaker #4: So now my understanding would be that you are missing in this mix maybe some precious metal contents. That would explain the double digit structural decrease in your EBITDA mid-term contribution.

Speaker #4: Yeah, that's the first question. Just to check.

Speaker #2: You're right, Boris. On the one hand, it's the content of certain metals, but also it's the teeth, it's the RCs, and other terms in the condition.

Toralf Haag: You're right, Boris. On the one hand, it's the content of certain metals, but also it's the RCs and other terms and the conditions. It's not only that, but that's also part of it.

Speaker #2: So it's not only that, but that's also part of it.

Speaker #4: Okay. And do you think you might find a solution if the United States government further increases the refrain the capacity to export recycling materials that you would keep better kind of materials for the domestic market that would improve your metrics going forward?

Boris Bourdet: Do you think you might find a solution if the United States government further increases the capacity to export recycling materials, that you would keep a better kind of materials for the domestic market that would improve your metrics going forward? Or is it unlikely?

Speaker #4: Or is it unlikely?

Speaker #2: Yes, this would be conceptually positive for us because it increases consequently, of course, the availability of all sorts of recycling materials and also of more complex materials.

Toralf Haag: Yes, this would be conceptually positive for us because it increases, consequently, of course, the availability of all sorts of recycling materials and also of more complex materials. This would be positive for us, yes.

Speaker #2: So this would be positive for us, yes.

Speaker #4: Yeah. And maybe a word on free cash flow. So you're guiding for free cash flow before dividend payments being at least break-even this year.

Boris Bourdet: Yeah. Maybe a word on free cash flow. You're guiding for free cash flow before dividend payments being at least breakeven this year, despite the EUR -365 year-to-date figure. That means a strong reversal in Q4 for net working capital, I guess. I was wondering, looking at your CapEx number, it's EUR 373 year-to-date. It seems to be behind the intended number of EUR 670. Do you stick to that guidance, or what could be the right number to look at in CapEx? Yeah, that would be that.

Speaker #4: Despite the minus 365 year-to-date figure. So that means a strong reversal in Q4 for networking capital I guess, but I was wondering looking at your capex number, it's 373 year-to-date.

Speaker #4: It seems to be behind the intended number of 670. Do you stick to that guidance, or what could be the right number to look at in capex?

Speaker #4: And yeah, that would be that.

Speaker #2: Yeah. Well, spotted, Boris. So on the capex side or let's say the cash capex, it is not likely that we will, let's say, spend that much in Q4 that would remain to, let's say, the old target.

Steffen Hoffmann: Well spotted, Boris. On the CapEx side, or let's say the cash CapEx, it is not likely that we will, let's say, spend that much in Q4 that would remain to, let's say, the old target. Let's say there, as of today, we think that cash CapEx could be probably below EUR 600 million. This will also obviously then support the free cash flow generation. Generally on, let's say, the general improvement on working ourselves down from seasonally high stock levels. We have a clear plan how to reduce working capital and deliver on the full year target. It's about destocking of inventory. It's about selling our copper products into the market. For example, on copper products, in the summer period, there's less of a production here due to German summer and Belgian summer vacation schedules. We had more on stock.

Speaker #2: So let's say there as of today, we think that cash capex could be probably below 600 million. So this will also obviously then support the free cash flow generation.

Speaker #2: And then generally on, let's say, the general improvement on working ourselves down from seasonally high stock levels. So we have a clear plan how to reduce working capital and deliver on the three-year target.

Speaker #2: So it's about destocking of inventory. It's about selling our copper products into the market. For example, on copper products, in the summer, in the summer period, there's less of a production here.

Speaker #2: Due to German summer and Belgian summer vacations schedules. So we had more on stock. That's kind of a usual thing. So it's about now selling those highly attractive copper products to the markets, being it on the rotten shape side, being it on the cathode side, second point is clear targeted decrease of intermediates.

Steffen Hoffmann: That's kind of a usual thing. It's about now selling those highly attractive copper products to the markets, being it on the rod and shape side, being it on the cathode side. Second point is a clear targeted decrease of intermediates. Let's say we have a clear plan as we speak. That working capital is going in the right direction. This coupled with what you spotted well on, let's say, the cash CapEx, all that together makes us confident that we will achieve free cash flow target of at least break even before dividend this year.

Speaker #2: So let's say we have a clear plan as we speak, networking capital is going in the right direction. And this coupled with what you spotted well on, let's say, the cash capex, all that together makes us confident that we will achieve free cash flow target of at least break even before dividends here.

Speaker #4: Okay. Very clear. Thank you. And the last question is on TCs. How much does it represent today of the group's gross margin? And do you confirm it cannot go below zero?

Boris Bourdet: Okay. Very clear. Thank you. The last question is on TCs. How much does it represent today of the group's gross margin? Do you confirm it cannot go below zero?

Speaker #2: Yeah. I mean, on the first piece of your question, you saw that on page eight, from a gross margin perspective, TCRC for both businesses was, let's say, at 21%.

Steffen Hoffmann: Yeah, on the first piece of your question, you saw that on page eight, from a gross margin perspective, TCRC for both businesses was, let's say, at 21%. As we talk about TCRCs, we focus on the CSP segment, and there on page 10, we saw that the TCRCs for the primary side, this is where the pressure is, were, let's say, only 12%. I cannot confirm that it will never be zero.

Speaker #2: And as we talk about TCRCs, so then we focus on the CSP segment and there on a page 10, we saw that the TCRCs for the primary side, this is where the pressure is, were, let's say, only 12%.

Speaker #2: And I cannot confirm that it will never be zero.

Speaker #4: Yeah. But it should never go below zero. I mean, we see negative spot rates on the markets. Is there a possibility that one day your contracts might include negative commercial terms or do you have a sort of a flaw?

Boris Bourdet: Yeah, it should never go below zero. We see negative spot rates on the markets. Is there a possibility that one day your contracts might include negative commercial terms, or do you have a sort of a floor?

Speaker #2: If the spot level is super negative, and I mean, we will always differentiate ourselves emancipate ourselves, visibly from, let's say, almost spot market level.

Steffen Hoffmann: If the spot level is super negative and we will always differentiate ourselves, emancipate ourselves visibly from, let's say, almost spot market level. If a spot market level is very depressed, we can also not rule out that it would be zero or a bit below zero. It will always be significantly better than a

Speaker #2: But if a spot market level is very depressed, we also cannot rule out that it could be zero or even a bit below zero.

Speaker #2: But it will always be significantly better. Spot market level.

Boris Bourdet: Yeah

Boris Bourdet: spot market level.

Steffen Hoffmann: spot market level.

Boris Bourdet: Very helpful. Thank you very much.

Speaker #4: Very, very helpful. Thank you very much.

Operator 3: That was the last submitted question. We do still have some time, so I will repeat the key combination in case anyone has some follow-up question. If you would like to ask a question, please press star nine and pound key on your telephone keypad. You could also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand if you would like to ask a question by phone. I repeat, star nine and pound key on your keypad. We have Bastian from Deutsche Bank back on the line. Please go ahead.

Speaker #1: Oh, that was the last submitted question. We do still have some time, so I will repeat the key combination in case anyone has some follow-up question.

Operator: That was the last submitted question. We do still have some time, so I will repeat the key combination in case anyone has some follow-up question. If you would like to ask a question, please press star nine and pound key on your telephone keypad. You could also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand if you would like to ask a question by phone. I repeat, star nine and pound key on your keypad. We have Bastian from Deutsche Bank back on the line. Please go ahead.

Speaker #1: If you would like to ask a question, please press star 9 and pound key on your telephone keypad. You could also use the dial-in function in the webcast and raise your hand if you would like to ask a question by phone.

Speaker #1: I repeat, star 9 and pound key on your keypad. We have Bastian from Deutsche Bank back on the line. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Yeah. Hi. Thanks for taking my follow-up question. Just a very quick one on capex. Stephanie, you mentioned capex will now be around 600 or actually below.

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my follow-up question. Just a very quick one on CapEx. Stephanie mentioned CapEx will now be around EUR 600 or actually below. Does that mean that the EUR 70 million will be moved to next year's budget, so next year will be more like EUR 620 or so? Or is this a cut elsewhere which is sustainable?

Bastian Synagowitz: Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my follow-up question. Just a very quick one on CapEx. Stephanie mentioned CapEx will now be around EUR 600 or actually below. Does that mean that the EUR 70 million will be moved to next year's budget, so next year will be more like EUR 620 or so? Or is this a cut elsewhere which is sustainable?

Speaker #4: So does that mean that the 70 million will be moved to next year's budget? So next year will be more like 620 or so?

Speaker #4: Or is this a cut elsewhere, which is sustainable?

Speaker #2: Bastian, you can rely on our ambition that we want to build the curve of bringing capex down. So we are not guiding today, but our ambition is that next year should not be above this year.

Steffen Hoffmann: Bastian, you can rely on our ambition that we want to build the curve of bringing CapEx down. We are not guiding today, but our ambition is that next year should not be above this year.

Speaker #4: Okay. Got you. Thank you.

Bastian Synagowitz [Equity Analyst and Director: Okay, got you. Thank you.

Bastian Synagowitz: Okay, got you. Thank you.

Operator 3: Last question from Maxime Oddo. You are on the line.

Operator: Last question from Maxime Oddo. You are on the line.

Speaker #1: Last question from Maxim. Otto. You are on the line.

Speaker #4: Yeah. If I can stay on the subject of sulfuric acid because I think you said that you will finish the year with about 200 million euro of 180 of sulfuric acid contribution.

Maxime Kogge: If I can stay on the subject of sulfuric acid, because I think you said that you will finish the year with about EUR 200 million of 180 of sulfuric acid contribution. If we look at the spot prices in Europe, multiply that by your sulfuric acid production, we add close to EUR 800 million of revenues there. My understanding is that there are very limited associated costs. Is that a credible figure somehow, if prices stay where they are now? Or is there anything we should be aware of to not to apply some kind of discount to these prices.

Speaker #4: But if we look at the spot prices, in Europe, multiply that by your sulfuric acid production, yeah, we are close to 800 million dollars of revenue there.

Speaker #4: And my understanding is that there are very limited associated costs. So is that a credible figure somehow? If prices stay where they are now, or is there anything we should be aware of to not, I mean, to apply some kind of discount to these prices?

Speaker #2: Maxim, as we said before, the vast majority of our exposure this year has been already fixed or covered by long-term contracts. Which were fixed before the sharp increase of the prices for sulfuric acid.

Toralf Haag: As we said before, the vast majority of our exposure this year has been already fixed or covered by long-term contracts, which were fixed before the sharp increase of the prices for sulfuric acid. Secondly, also, when we go into negotiations for the remainder of the part and also for next year, we are, I want to say, almost also interested in long-term relationship with our customers. We're trying to take not too much advantage of the current spot price situation.

Speaker #2: And secondly, also when we go into negotiations, for the remainder of the part and also for next year, we are I want to say almost also interested in long-term relationship with our customers.

Speaker #2: So we're trying to take not too much advantage of the current spot price situation.

Maxime Kogge: Okay. That's helpful.

Speaker #4: Okay. That's helpful.

Speaker #1: Oh, thank you, everyone, for your questions and participation. And with that, I hand over to your host.

Operator 3: Thank you everyone for your questions and participation. With that, I hand over to your host.

Operator: Thank you everyone for your questions and participation. With that, I hand over to your host.

Elke Brinkmann: The IR team will, of course, be happy to answer any further questions you may have. We would now like to close today's conference call and thank you for your attention. Enjoy the rest of the day. Thank you and goodbye.

Speaker #5: So the IAR team will of course be happy to answer any further questions you may have. We would now like to close today's conference call and thank you for your attention.

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Q3 2026 Aurubis AG Earnings Call

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