Full Year 2026 Link Real Estate Investment Trust Earnings Call
Speaker #1: 700.
Speaker #2: On the stage, we have our chair of the board, Mr. Duncan Owen. Executive director and chief central officer, Mr. director and chief investment officer, Mr. John Saunders.
Speaker #2: So on the screen, you may find today's agenda. And without further ado, let me hand the floor over to Duncan. Again, to give an overview of our resource.
Speaker #1: Thanks, Christie. good afternoon, everyone. whether you're in the room at our offices in the Quayside here or watching via the webcast, thank you for taking the time to join this session.
Speaker #1: we're here to report the full year end results for LINQ re 2025 year-ending 2026. Before we cover the details of our results, I'd like to just start speaking on behalf of the board and management to say that we've been listening carefully, reflecting on the views of our unit holders, and other important stakeholders.
Speaker #1: our response during the final months of 2025/26 and going into the fi new financial year has been to go back to basics, focusing on our key competitive advantages as owners and operators of retail mills and car parks in APAC.
Speaker #1: What that means is focusing on our core assets and our core skills. This is why, in January's announcement, we confirmed that no less than 80% of LINQ's balance sheet, capital, would be invested in core competency, and currently, we indeed have over 90% of our assets in this core area.
Speaker #1: Whilst we'll continue with partnerships, principally for value-add opportunities with higher returns, these activities should not ever be more than 20% of the balance sheet, and they will normally be a lot lower.
Speaker #1: Our immediate focus is therefore now on reinvigorating the existing core portfolio, divesting non-core assets, which means the sale of mainly offices and warehousing, and buying back shares where pricing is attractive for unit holder returns.
Speaker #1: Back to basics is also about streamlining our management structure and adopting a more disciplined approach to capital allocation. Turning to the headline numbers for our full year results, ending 2026, the overall net property income is down 3.7% year on year.
Speaker #1: Due primarily to negative inversions in our Hong Kong and Chinese mainland portfolios. Our distributable amount per unit reduced by 6.4% to 6.5 billion Hong Kong dollars, with a final dividend of 2.54 Hong Kong dollars per unit.
Speaker #1: In anticipation of the negative reversions in the core retail business, we have undertaken significant cost optimization which KS will update you on in some detail further.
Speaker #1: It's worth noting that there are encouraging signs that the wider retail sector in Hong Kong is now recovering and consumer confidence and investor in and investor interest in returns.
Speaker #1: Whilst we're seeing rental levels begin to stabilize, negative rental reversions, however, will persist at around the same level during the year that we're in now, ending '27, as compared to the year-end we're reporting on now in '26.
Speaker #1: This is because the renewals in the current financial year will normally be for leases which were commenced approximately three years ago at a higher rental levels due to post-COVID optimism at that time.
Speaker #1: Our cost optimization efforts will help partially offset the impact of these negative reversions on earnings and distributions. We also remain watchful and prepared for continued growth in e-commerce.
Speaker #1: We've taken steps to reposition our offering and capture revenues where possible from the changing environment, and John will speak later about these initiatives. It remains to be seen how deeply on e-commerce will penetrate Hong Kong, given the relatively compact nature of the city's communities and the convenience of our mills.
Speaker #1: The ultimate level of penetration of e-commerce the e-commerce achieves may not reach the same heights, however, as seen in other Western economies, having said that, it is a threat that we are taking very remains just for me to say, in the mid to long term, we are confident and passionate about the outlook for LINQ.
Speaker #1: We enjoy exposures to Asia's growing consumer markets and remain a high-quality operating business with a strong balance sheet and increasingly clear strategy, high levels of corporate governance, and capacity to attract high-quality international investors.
Speaker #1: Thank you for your continued support, and I'll now hand over to KS and John to run through our results in some detail. Thank you, Chair.
Speaker #1: Good afternoon, everyone. Great to have you with us today. As Duncan has mentioned, we have been managing the challenges in Hong Kong and the Chinese mainland retail markets.
Speaker #1: Overall, MPI was down year on year, mainly due to negative reversions in our core Hong Kong and Chinese mainland retail portfolios, amid continued competition from e-commerce, minimum wage increases, and weak consumer sentiment amid macro volatility.
Speaker #1: Car park income remained broadly stable, with tariff growth from initiatives such as Dynamic Pricing, offset by a decline in ticket volumes. Our international retail portfolio saw positive rental reversion and continued strong momentum.
Speaker #1: While we are seeing market rents are beginning to stabilize, negative retail reversions in the Hong Kong retail portfolio are expected to continue into 2026/27 at levels similar to 2025 and '26.
Speaker #1: On the cost side, we surpassed the original annualized savings target of 200 million Hong Kong dollars in the second half of 25/26, with the benefits flowing directly to the bottom line to support DPU.
Speaker #1: We will enjoy the full year benefits in the year ahead, as we move forward with a cost-based that better fits our expected revenues. On the portfolio side, we are staying disciplined, actively managing our assets and recycling non-core assets.
Speaker #1: Our recent divestment of the swing buy at Thomson Plaza stick, which we agreed to sell at a premium for 250 million SYNG dollars, underscores our commitment to optimize our portfolio.
Speaker #1: John will talk more about this. Looking ahead, our priority is to stabilize earnings over 26/27. I should note, however, that external factors such as the evolving US/Iran situation could influence the outlook.
Speaker #1: Rest assured, our team is monitoring developments closely, with that context in mind, let me walk you through the key figures. MPI was down by 3.7% year on year due to negative reversion in our core Hong Kong and Chinese mainland retail portfolios.
Speaker #1: To mitigate this impact, we reduced staff and GAN costs by 14.5% year on year, through a broad-based organizational streamlining. As a result, we managed to limit DPU decline to just 6.9%, with a final distribution of 2.54 SYNG Hong Kong dollars per unit.
Speaker #1: Total portfolio. Valuation is to 216 billion Hong Kong dollars, reflecting lower rental assumptions in certain markets, which we will elaborate on later. We continue to maintain a robust capital position amid the challenging and volatile macro outlook through disciplined capital management, effective interest cost control, and maintaining an optimal fixed-rate hedge ratio.
Speaker #1: This enabled us to lower our average all-in borrowing cost to 3.4%. Overall, our financial position is robust, with net gearing at 23.9%. Now, moving on into more detail on key operational and financial highlights.
Speaker #1: We retain high occupancy levels in our retail portfolio. In Singapore and Australia, we achieved near full occupancy and double-digit positive rental reversions during the period.
Speaker #1: Meanwhile, the office and logistics portfolio remained steady, supported by high occupancy and leasing demand. Amidst competitive supply, we have benefited from a lower high-ball locally and have prudently managed our interest rate exposures, with expectations of diverging monetary policies across APAC.
Speaker #1: Asset valuations continue to diverge across markets, reflecting lower market rents in Hong Kong and Chinese mainland. While holding up better in Singapore and Australia, I'll now turn to the portfolio breakdown.
Speaker #1: As of March 2026, total valuation of the LINGRIT portfolio stood at 216 billion Hong Kong dollars, down about 4% year on year. Core retail and car park assets continue to form the backbone of the portfolio, accounting for 90.4%, with the remaining 9.6% comprising other assets, including offices, and logistics.
Speaker #1: Geographically, Hong Kong and the Chinese mainland retail remain the key markets, representing around 82% of the portfolio value, while international retail assets in Australia and Singapore make up around 8%.
Speaker #1: Looking more closely at valuation adjustments, movements were mixed across portfolios. Non-retail assets generally recorded more significant declines, while international retail assets saw valuation gains particularly in Singapore and Australia.
Speaker #1: Ongoing weakness in rental performance across Hong Kong and the Chinese mainland has shaped valuations, while stronger rental trends in international markets have supported valuation stability in local currency terms.
Speaker #1: We expect valuations to continue to normalize over the coming months, given their lagging nature relative to underlying performance and market conditions. With changes reflecting the prevailing operating environment, our capital position remains robust, supported by disciplined capital management, effective interest cost control, and a high fixed-rate hedge ratio.
Speaker #1: As of end March, net gearing remained at a healthy 23.9%, while average borrowing costs improved to 3.4% through proactive interest rate and financing arrangement.
Speaker #1: During the year, we refinanced around 25 billion Hong Kong dollars at very competitive rates at unprecedented credit margins, including the pricing of 600 million US senior unsecured notes at a coupon rate of 4.875% in February.
Speaker #1: This extends LINGRIT's debt maturity profile and further diversifying our funding sources. Our fixed debt rate ratio within the prudent range of 50-70% at 60%, reflecting our continued careful management of interest rate exposure and heightened uncertainty over future rate movements.
Speaker #1: Over the past 12 months, total debt increased slightly from 53.5 billion to 56.7 billion, partly due to currency translation effects. Our debt maturity profiles remain healthy, with the average tenure lengthened to 3.5 years, and well-staggered over the next 12 years.
Speaker #1: Strong A-range ratings across all three agencies support favorable funding terms, and future financing flexibility. With that, I'll now hand over to John for the portfolio highlights.
Speaker #1: Thank you all.
Speaker #2: Thank you very much, KS. I'll now walk you through the LINGRIT portfolio highlights, starting with the performance of our Hong Kong retail segment. Hong Kong retail occupancy remains solid at 97.8%, although revenue declined by 3.9% year on year, and rental reversion reported a negative 8.2%.
Speaker #2: Overall tenant sales showed improvement, with declining to 1%. Food and beverage delivered 1.2% growth, while supermarkets and food staff saw a marginal dip of 0.5%.
Speaker #2: The overall decline in LING's tenant sales reflected softer performance in the general retail segment, amid continued increase of competition from Chinese mainland e-commerce platforms.
Speaker #2: But overall occupancy costs stayed at a very healthy 12.7%, so taken together, these metrics do suggest that while challenges persist, resilience remains evident in our core retail portfolio.
Speaker #2: We continue to proactively refine our tenant mix to stay ahead of evolving market trends and will share more details on these initiatives in the next slide.
Speaker #2: I'm very pleased to say that our leasing team signed 207 new brands and 587 new leases during the reporting period, and tenant retention remained extremely healthy at more than 80%.
Speaker #2: We have also been seeing the green shoots for Hong Kong's recovery in its economy, and we've been seeing that in our own portfolio in terms of both stabilizing spot rents and also in terms of improving tenant sales.
Speaker #2: In response, to continued e-commerce disruption, we're actively reshaping our trade mix towards in-person experiences and service-led offerings. These include fitness centres, learning and interest classes, game and family entertainment, but with a reduced emphasis on categories such as fashion and electronics.
Speaker #2: At the same time, we're strengthening our focus on health and wellness to better serve our communities, including the addition of fitness and elderly care facilities to address Hong Kong's aging population.
Speaker #2: We have also capitalised on growing demand from Chinese mainland brands introducing new operators across key segments, whilst refreshing the tenant mix and replacing underperforming tenants.
Speaker #2: Meanwhile, our tenants have also been responding at pace by simplifying their own supply chains. As an example, supermarket retailers selling daily needs produce were a kilo of bok choy might have had many intermediaries between farm and shelf, a number of years ago, but now today is being directly sourced.
Speaker #2: Also today, much of the fulfilment of online grocery or food and beverage retail is happening directly from the stores in our own malls. And I'm pleased to announce that we have launched our own pickup and fulfilment service LINGCollect, which opened in April.
Speaker #2: This service is all about meeting the needs of our communities and, most importantly, keeping shoppers in our assets. Rather than letting our shoppers leave the malls to go and pick up to go to pickup centres outside, it allows us to retain the footfall and encourage ancillary spending, perhaps a drink or a bun, when people collect their online purchases.
Speaker #2: It also enables us to reinvigorate quieter areas of our centres while providing most importantly information about e-commerce patterns and trends which will allow us to be better educated and refine our strategy and our mix.
Speaker #2: Revenue from car parks and related businesses remained broadly stable. While monthly income softened due to lower ticket volumes, the increased hourly income helped offset much of the impact.
Speaker #2: We continue to enhance the car parks and overall experience across our malls using real-time analytics at scale. This enables us to further improve car park efficiency while delivering greater flexibility and value for our shoppers.
Speaker #2: And with rising EV adoption, demand for charging-enabled parking continues to grow. And with LING as a leading provider, our public EV charging facilities, we are well positioned to benefit from both the longer dwell times, which support parking demand, as well as more footfall.
Speaker #2: In parallel, we refined our promotional parking arrangements as part of our ongoing optimisation efforts, transitioning to a nominal $5 per hour charge. We continue to progress asset enhancement with a $600 million Hong Kong dollar pipeline to upgrade and reposition our properties ensuring that they remain fresh and relevant, and well aligned with the needs of the communities we serve.
Speaker #2: In the second half of 2526, we invested $67 million Hong Kong dollars to revamp Yat Dung Shopping Centre, as shown on the slide. We are upgrades to the façade and common areas, which enhance the community experience while improvements to the trade mix and activation of common areas created additional sales opportunities.
Speaker #2: And all of this resulted in an expected ROI of around about 10.6%. During the year, we also revamped the Choi Ming Fresh Market, Lei Yu Men Plaza, and we completed placemaking at both Temple Mall and Tea Town.
Speaker #2: Now turning to Chinese mainland retail, a subdued operating environment continues to impact performance across our portfolio, with overall rental reversion printing at a negative 14.3%.
Speaker #2: Performance across Tier 1 cities was mixed, Shenzhen and Guangzhou recorded modest growth, while Beijing remained under pressure and Shanghai's recovery was gradual. The Chinese mainland retail portfolio though maintains strong occupancy supported by solid leasing momentum, during the year we signed leases with over 174 brands, driven by demand from lifestyle retail and casual food and beverage.
Speaker #2: We continue to make considerable effort on strengthening the positioning of our Chinese mainland malls through ongoing tenant remixing, layout reconfiguration, asset enhancements, and introducing new concept tenants to enhance offerings.
Speaker #2: Across Singapore and Australia, our international retail assets achieved near full occupancy, and extremely good double-digit rental reversions, underscoring strong leasing demand and the strategic positioning of our malls there.
Speaker #2: The Singapore retail market, supported by recovering tourist arrivals, a resilient labour market, and steady income growth. Meanwhile, Australia remained strong, supported by population growth and real wage gains.
Speaker #2: However, looking ahead, we are mindful of the impact of increased inflation and rate hike concerns, which could potentially pressure some household budgets and therefore spending in our malls.
Speaker #2: Regarding our office and logistics assets, occupancy remained high despite new supply coming to market. And this reflects the enhancements we've been made to common areas, which have been well received by tenants.
Speaker #2: Now turning to the quayside, you'll all be more than well aware that JP Morgan has informed us that it will not be renewing its lease upon expiry in late 2028.
Speaker #2: However, we've already commenced proactive leasing initiatives to secure replacement tenants. We continue to build the third-party capital partnerships to enhance optionality and drive returns.
Speaker #2: And now next, we will turn to the outlook and the key focus areas. So to recap, we're focusing back to the basics on developing our core capabilities in actively owning and managing retail assets across APAC.
Speaker #2: We will continue to simplify our portfolio through recycling our non-core assets to be in line with our message of being predominantly an Asian mall operator.
Speaker #2: Whilst adopting a lean operating model with broader deployment of digitalisation and automation to remain cost disciplined. We're capital is deemed surplus to near-term requirements, and our unit prices at an attractive valuation we will buy back units to drive unit holder returns.
Speaker #2: The recent disposal of swing-buy at Thomson Plaza illustrates this approach, and we intend to deploy proceeds to buying back units upon the completion of the sale.
Speaker #2: Through these efforts, we are focused on ensuring that our unit holders continue to enjoy strong total returns, as well as setting the foundations for a positive next chapter for LINK REIT.
Speaker #2: So now let me pass the mic back to Duncan for an outlook and closing remarks.
Speaker #1: Thank you, everyone. Before we move into the Q&A, the sort of just a few words on the macroeconomic environment and the outlook for LINK and what it means.
Speaker #1: Clearly, the macroeconomic environment continues to be turbulent. We see a continuation of trends, including a fundamental reorganisation of global trade, more reliance on domestic production, and rapid enhancements of AI.
Speaker #1: The medium-term fundamentals for real estate in Asia-Pacific, however, remain resilient. Benefiting from urban population growth in the key developed markets, strong intra-Asian trading, growing tourism, and rising investments in the technology sector.
Speaker #1: What is increasingly clear is investors will gravitate towards owners with quality assets and operational strength to actively manage through the cycle. Focusing on LINK, we're therefore encouraged that confidence and investor interest in Hong Kong is improving.
Speaker #1: Tenant sales continue to recover, and we are seeing rental levels stabilise. We'll also enjoy the full impact of our cost optimisation initiatives this year in the following year ending 2027.
Speaker #1: However, while the market rental levels stabilising, we do anticipate, and we reiterate, that the negative reversions in Hong Kong and Chinese mainland retail portfolios will persist, through 2026 to '27, as we finish renewing the final leases that were agreed some two to three years ago in times of higher optimism post-COVID.
Speaker #1: The team continues to drive new revenue initiatives such as our car parts segment, and we will work to sell non-core assets using proceeds to buy back units and reinvest into our existing core portfolio.
Speaker #1: We're now more confident that we will be able to keep our earnings stable and protect the dividend per unit in the year ahead. Thank you, and let's open the floor now for some questions and answers.
Speaker #3: Okay. Thank you, gentlemen, for the presentation. So just a second. So when you ask questions, remember to state your name and the company that you represent.
Speaker #3: And for those who join us online, you can also use the Q&A function to key in your questions. Okay. Now, let me count first.
Speaker #3: JPM?
Speaker #4: Thank you for the opportunity. I'm Carl Chen from JPMorgan. I have two questions. The first one is probably for Duncan. Can you give us an update on the CEO search?
Speaker #4: So that's the first question. And the second question is probably for John. Can you comment a bit more about the tenant sales trend for the past one to two months?
Speaker #4: Do you see a further acceleration in the tenant sales compared to, let's say, the first quarter of this year? Thank you.
Speaker #1: Okay. Thank you for the question. The CEO search, I think as we've said before, we there's a comprehensive independent search seeking approved candidate with international experience and real estate investment experience cross-border.
Speaker #1: It's continued to take some time, but we have made some significant headway that have been a high-quality list of candidates which has been reduced over time.
Speaker #1: I think the guidance we gave was it could take several months to identify the right party and the process, and then we could find that it have an extended notice period of 12 months before they formally join.
Speaker #1: I think the original timetable is still broadly speaking that we would hope to stick to, which is probably at some stage during Q1 or Q2, we would have a new CEO.
Speaker #1: But that calendar year next year. So that would mean that we would notice periods, etc., would need to be announcing at some stage over the summer period here.
Speaker #1: So I don't think there's any change. We have had, I think, one or two people aware from market rumours one or two candidates that we've been quite developed.
Speaker #1: But we're currently at a relatively advanced stage, but you can never tell with these things. John?
Speaker #5: Yeah, sure. So I mean, overall, what I would say if you look at before I answer the question about the recent point, certainly F&B has been recovering through the course of the year.
Speaker #5: So we're now back into positive territory on that. Supermarket and food stuff, which in '24, '25 was quite sharply negative, is all but flat now.
Speaker #5: The area that's been challenged still is general retail, which, as you experts would know, includes all sorts of things, including household and also fashion, etc.
Speaker #5: And that's the area this is still showing negative. But it is less negative. So by negative five and a half is was by the end about three and a half.
Speaker #5: I think rather than give a number on each of those, maybe I can give you the colour and the context to say that, yes, it does seem that that trend of positivity does continue.
Speaker #5: I think there was quite a lot of the holiday period, there was good tourism here. Generally, sales are improving. We know, of course, that because we don't have such an exposure to things like electronics and iPhones and jewellery and stuff, that as much as we were sort of safe and secure lagging into the downturn, it's been a little slower to recovery.
Speaker #5: But there is a trend there. We are seeing green shoots. We are seeing stabilising rental levels and continued improving sales. So yeah, let's say that we're cautiously optimistic.
Speaker #5: Cautiously.
Speaker #3: Thanks for the opportunity. This is Cindy from Citi. I have two questions as well. First is on your non-core asset potential. Can you remind us the threshold between your definition of core and non-core assets?
Speaker #3: Have you set any numerical targets within non-core asset disposition? What do you think could be the primary challenges for you to execute strategy for instance, sufficient buyer interest, or what type of pricing are you looking at?
Speaker #3: And can you also give us an update on the status of 100 Market Street after it listed for sale since March, I think? And the second question is on your buyback.
Speaker #3: I see at your result announcement that you mentioned accelerating unit buybacks. So how should we understand the acceleration? And just now, you mentioned one condition is when unit price is attractive in terms of valuation.
Speaker #3: So what type of valuation matrix would you look at? Is it dividend yield, NAV discount? What type of things will you look at? And have you set a pace or a target for buyback, or would there be more say opportunistic?
Speaker #3: Thank you.
Speaker #1: There's definitely at least eight questions in there. Let me do some headlines because I will hand to John on the disposals and what colour we can give.
Speaker #1: Very simply, the result does 5% or 10% of the assets are considered non-core. The majority of those would be obviously anything that's not in APAC.
Speaker #1: And obviously, anything that's not a retail melt. So that's a very simple high level. At a high level regarding those share buybacks, it might be something that KS will add to.
Speaker #1: My statement, I think you're referring to at the right pricing levels. It's simplistically looking at the cost of capital and we're cautious that if share price moves further above where we thought we could get better returns elsewhere, we might not do share buybacks.
Speaker #1: But the moment we would think that there's a plausible case for it being attractive to unit holders. It's really key that we would be buying back shares purely for the economic return to the benefit of the shareholders, not to try and get a response in share price going up, not to get any other particular outcome to do with dividends, etc.
Speaker #1: It's what will make economic sense from a total return from a total cost of capital. So it's a pure economic decision. John, on the sales?
Speaker #5: Yeah, sure. I mean, the chairman's put it quite well. There are two lenses. There's the lens of geography. So if it's not in Asia, then that means it's non-core.
Speaker #5: And then there is the asset class lens. So if it's not a mall, that potentially means it's non-core. So as the chairman said, if you look at roughly 5% to 10% of the balance sheet at any one time, which we always look at because I think it's good capital management and investment management to look at whether things earn their keep, if you like.
Speaker #5: Then that means the focus is on things that aren't malls. And things that aren't in Asia. I suppose the 100 Market Street question, yes, there is a process ongoing.
Speaker #5: It is still ongoing. I don't think it would be right. When one is in the middle of a process in a commercial negotiation, I think other than to say that it continues as a process, and we'll update you as soon as we have further information on that.
Speaker #5: I mean, a good question, challenge is to sale. I mean, obviously, when we disposed of Thomson Plaza, that's another definitional in terms of what it's not that it's non-core, but if somebody offers you a great price and you think it way beats your average cost of capital going forward, you have to look at that as well.
Speaker #5: I think the key challenge to disposal, as you say, is making sure there's enough liquidity in the market. And we continue to monitor that.
Speaker #5: But we're running processes, and so far, so good. We'll continue to update you.
Speaker #4: Supplementing Duncan's response on the buyback, I think per the announcement, we have intention to use the Thomson Plaza proceeds, which amount to about 1.5 billion.
Speaker #4: And then we will announce as each divestment deal is being concluded to decide where to deploy it. Thanks.
Speaker #1: Hello. Yeah, thank you, Management. This is Mark Wen from UBS. I have a follow-up question regarding on the buyback. For example, like the Thomson Plaza, I think we are using 100 proceed percent of the proceed for using buyback.
Speaker #1: But how about how should we think about the percentage of the proceed? In the future, for example, when 100 Market Street being done with all of the proceed being used for buyback and not until the dividend yield, for example, reach our cost of equity discount valuation level?
Speaker #1: That's the first question. And I think the second question is I see two numbers in here. Number one is we are identifying around 10% of the non-core.
Speaker #1: But at the same time, you also mentioned 80% of our assets willing to invest in the non-core areas. So we just want to gauge what's the difference between the 10% and the remaining 20%.
Speaker #1: Okay. Definitely KS can expand on the question about the buybacks. I think the percentages are used in slightly different contexts. There is a range of 5% to 10% of assets that we might reasonably expect would be sold.
Speaker #1: What we're saying to unit holders, investors to the fund separately to that, so full stop after that point, separately to that, no less than 80%, but we can reasonably expect 90% plus at the moment will continue to be invested in retail malls as the core in APAC, of which the majority are in Hong Kong and the Greater Bay Area.
Speaker #1: So hopefully that clarifies any confusion on that point. KS?
Speaker #5: So I think Mark, you're still trying to figure out the difficult questions that we will not be able to disclose. But I think where we want to be honest is as each deal is being done and as we assess where the capital needs are, and where the unit price is, and where the cost of capital relevance is, then I think we will make that announcement.
Speaker #5: So keeping our fingers crossed, I think the implicit understanding then is that only when the deal is done and you don't want to rush to make something too prematurely and scuffle the deals.
Speaker #5: And I think that's where we are in terms of the agreement board.
Speaker #3: Okay. Before I go on with them, there's here, maybe writing on the questions that Mark asked just now regarding the buyback. So there's one question online from Sam Wong.
Speaker #3: Optimus. Can we confirm the proceeds are prioritized for buyback over M&A until it is otherwise more accretive? So this question is addressing to John.
Speaker #3: And we look at KS.
Speaker #5: Yeah. Look, I think we've said, and we will continue to say, there's one question about value of shares. But I think that's the basics of the understanding of cost of capital.
Speaker #5: If you're looking to take your money, do you invest it and return to shareholders, unit holders? Or do you look at new acquisitions? And I think you have to have a strong understanding of that cost of capital.
Speaker #5: So now, I think what we would say is that where we are right now, the intention is that we would be putting that money back at the Thomson Plaza proceeds would be used.
Speaker #5: I mean, KS, you might have an additional.
Speaker #4: I think same thing for the question. If we could quantify what that number is in terms of total shareholders' return expected for M&A deal that you have hypothetically planted, then clearly the board will have to decide how to look at it at that point.
Speaker #4: Share prices. I mean, it's back to which one gives the best returns to shareholders.
Speaker #1: Just to clarify, I think it might help to add for Sam, just we're not currently considering particular M&A. And anything that would be considered in the future would have to be absolutely compelling.
Speaker #1: I think it would be fair to say we would consider it a high bar. Okay.
Speaker #3: Thank you.
Speaker #6: Hi. Carl Choise from Bank of America. A few questions. First, I just want to get a little bit more color about from Duncan about your comments on more confidence about achieving stable earnings in fiscal 27 and I think rental reversion sounds like it's still going to be somewhat quite negative.
Speaker #6: And so do you expect cost savings to be much more than expected to get to more of a flattish kind of earnings? Or maybe you have a relatively broad range for stable?
Speaker #6: And second question is just a quick one on car park. Just wondering if you have seen any negative impact from in terms of car park usage from higher gas prices recently.
Speaker #6: And third one is a very technical one. I think in the past, if I'm not mistaken, you only executed share buyback when you have completed your script dividend program.
Speaker #6: Is that still the case here this time? Thanks.
Speaker #1: Okay. Let me be I'll deal with the first. I'll let John deal with the car parking. I'll let KS deal with the script. The first was broadly directed at me.
Speaker #1: And if I could just make sure, could you just repeat the first? I apologize. I know you've lost the microphone. Just.
Speaker #6: No problem. When you mentioned stable earnings, since rental reversions are likely to be similar to 2026 levels, so that seems what seems to suggest that your earnings, everything else being equal, would be down somewhat, maybe mid-single digit rate after offering leverage and financial leverage.
Speaker #6: Just wondering if I'm not missing anything, perhaps on the cost side, would be a lot maybe you'll see some more cost savings coming through in fiscal 27.
Speaker #6: At least your anniversary, the 200 million plus of savings. But anything beyond that? Or when you mentioned stable earnings, it's relatively sort of broad range.
Speaker #1: Okay. So we can't be too specific about the earnings. So there is a range. But there are a number of levers that the team will use to save costs it depends on how many shares are in circulation at the time.
Speaker #1: It depends on the cost savings. Cost savings alone will never match top-level rental income moving down and revenues moving down. They're one of a number of levers that management would use to try and protect earnings and maintain them as close to stable as possible.
Speaker #1: So there is a little bit of a range in that. But clearly, if you've got a circa 2.5 dividend this year, there'd be a range around that.
Speaker #1: And costs and levers and how many shares what else is done in terms of elsewhere, where income might be going up in other regions, will counterbalance that and mitigate it to a degree.
Speaker #1: So it's a real balance. I think the only point I'd make beforehand to John, the car parking, is I absolutely I think most people understand, but there is some sensitivity whilst market rents are stable.
Speaker #1: So if your market rent's 100 today, it's pretty stable. If a rent three years ago was dealt at 105, then the reversion is down to 100.
Speaker #1: But that's only for one part of the portfolio. Of course, it's not as simple to say it's a third a year, but it's only for one part.
Speaker #1: But we hope we expect we're moving towards the end of that period of declines. If you think of this as a typically two or three-year leases, you would work out that that lag impact on rents on revenue stabilizing is that sort of time zone.
Speaker #1: And we've obviously incurred it a little bit for a year or so now already. John?
Speaker #4: Yeah. I could give you a very simple or a very complicated answer. Basically, the simple answer is no. There's been no effect in the near term.
Speaker #4: Obviously, we'll continue to monitor it. But obviously, what I would also say is there are other things going on in the parking business as well.
Speaker #4: On the positives, metered parking in Hong Kong has basically doubled in price. The illegal parking penalty has also gone up. And the other very interesting development, of course, is the number of EVs.
Speaker #4: Because with over 70% of new cars being EVs, our public housing estate tenants who are primarily the users of our car most of our car parks, they're the buyers of cheaper second-hand cars.
Speaker #4: So roll the clock forward two, three, four years. Suddenly, having that big concentration and network of EV starts to look like quite interesting optionality.
Speaker #4: And then the final point about parking, I would take the opportunity to raise, is the $5 privilege parking, which replaces the free parking. And I would say so far, it's early days, but the result of that seems to be positive and sticky.
Speaker #4: So I'm pleased that we've done that.
Speaker #1: So on the question on buyback during the DRIS window, it's usually not recommended because you start to mess with the outstanding shares and then, of course, the ultimate DPU, and you have to do a lot of announcements and all.
Speaker #1: So I think by practice, most companies would not touch the outstanding during the DRIS period. And then after that, we would consider ourselves out of blackout.
Speaker #1: Thank you.
Speaker #6: Hi. This is Chapel from DPS. I have two questions. I recall before COVID, the rental sales rate, so could be as high as 14, 15 percent.
Speaker #6: Now it has already improved to 12.7 percent with the rental cuts. At what level of rental sales rate, so would the rental reversion turn positive in your opinion?
Speaker #6: And second question is also relating to the share buyback. On one hand, you buy back some share with the proceeds from the asset disposal.
Speaker #6: Will you consider or will you continue to offer or provide the unit holder with the script dividend option because to me, it seems to be the opposite of the share buyback?
Speaker #1: John, John's had the rental.
Speaker #4: Yeah. Sure. I mean, look, I'm not sure there is a magic number that you write if we hit this, then definitely we get positive reversions.
Speaker #4: But obviously, positive reversions are really a combination of the leases that are expiring, some of which this year are expiring from that period immediately post-COVID where you had quite a lot of optimism, not all of which came through, combined with the spot rent market rent.
Speaker #4: I think the way I would answer it, because there is no magic number in the same way there's no magic number with the office market, say, but if you're at 15 percent, you're not going to get rent increases.
Speaker #4: But if you're at 2 percent, you definitely will. But where the crossover is, in a way, who knows? But I think the right way to look at it is we are seeing stabilization of the market rent.
Speaker #4: And we are in the zone where there aren't really any impediments to that carrying on so long as the general economic growth in Hong Kong carries on, so long as the general retail sales trend in Hong Kong carries on.
Speaker #4: And obviously, the magic question is, well, exactly when do reversions turn positive? Again, that's hard to answer. Because it depends how quickly what the delta of change is, basically, in that market rent.
Speaker #4: But what I would say, but in recap, what I would say is I think we're in the zone now. We're seeing the rents stabilizing.
Speaker #4: And we just need to see that Hong Kong's economy and Hong Kong's retail sales continue in that positive path. We're heavily, heavily focused on the Hong Kong portfolio.
Speaker #4: So whatever that trajectory is, we intend to be on the absolute front foot of it. But it requires some help from the continued help from the economy.
Speaker #1: On the share buyback and the DRIS, I think over the years, at most, AGMs before we reactivated DRIS, unit holders tend to ask, "Please leave that option there.
Speaker #1: It's a service to unit holders' convenience that if they want, they can reinvest." And I think we have kept it there. And the feedback from the investors depending on different levels of discount.
Speaker #1: That's generated different amount of subscription. I don't think it's in huge conflict with the buyback for the DRIS. In itself, it's a very small number.
Speaker #1: And I say it's purely an option and a convenience to unit holders that if we take it away, put it back, I think it's very noisy.
Speaker #1: And then we'll decide how to work on the discount to reflect the capital needs at the time.
Speaker #6: Okay. Maybe let's address one question online first. So John Lam from UBS, his question says, "How do you see the impact of e-commerce penetration?
Speaker #6: Do you see it as a structural trend that may last for a few years until it is similar to mainland China in terms of the e-commerce penetration level?"
Speaker #1: John, John say that.
Speaker #4: Yeah. Sure. I mean, I think e-commerce isn't going away. And I don't think we've reached full penetration yet. That's certainly the case. So we continue to evaluate the impact and the implications.
Speaker #4: But I think our strategy is to embrace not to avoid. That's one of the reasons prime reasons why we've done link collect. Link collect allows us to keep the footfall.
Speaker #4: We should never be we have this unique situation with many of our malls where the customers of our tenants live above the shopping center.
Speaker #4: They should we should never allow them to leave because within reason. Because obviously, that's then losing footfall and losing the ability to generate most important thing about link collect is it gives us just a much, much better insight into what parts of the basket is being affected.
Speaker #4: And I think if you're armed with better knowledge, it allows you to make better decisions. So there will be a change. There's been a change already.
Speaker #4: We've made if you think about where the mall mix was and the kind of tenants we had, somebody like a Japan Home Stores, you look how their footprint has shrunk within our malls and how other things have come in to take over.
Speaker #4: So having that knowledge gives you the ability to mix better because there will continue to be penetration. There's a question, of course, at what number it gets to, at what percentage it gets to.
Speaker #4: Will it be the same as China? Because Hong Kong's a little bit different and the distances are so small, will it be less? But in some respects, I think that's the wrong question to try and figure out because I think we just don't know.
Speaker #4: The real question to figure out is make yourself a subject matter expert through things like link collect. And then you've got your better equipped to make decisions to protect and optimize.
Speaker #6: Okay. Another question is from 09. Goldman Simon two questions. One is on general retail. And one is on cost saving. On general retail, you mentioned more focus to diversify to other experienced categories.
Speaker #6: Can you provide further breakdown of the general retail categories? And the second question is on cost savings. Which is in essence of 200 million HKD.
Speaker #6: How much further cost savings expected ahead?
Speaker #1: Maybe question one for John and question two for KS.
Speaker #4: Yeah. Look, I think if you're going to alter the mix in that way, and it is it's not just general retail, although general retail is the part that's been hit the hardest.
Speaker #4: You're going to alter the mix, then you've got to have things basically that experiential. You've got to have things that can't be done online.
Speaker #4: So as we know, if you're ordering bulk dry goods or if you're ordering homewares and things like that, frankly, that's pretty easy to just go on Taobao or Pinduoduo and just do that.
Speaker #4: I think for and it covers other areas like supermarkets and stuff. But if you're going to eat it, then I think a lot of people will actually want to sort of go and have a look at it or buy produce from Hong Kong.
Speaker #4: Especially if it's fresh. But the rest of it is really to do with the experiential stuff. So education, gymnasiums, and experiential food and beverage.
Speaker #4: It has to be something that you need to do or you want to do in person. That's basically the name and the trick to it.
Speaker #4: But we'll continue to evolve that.
Speaker #1: Yeah. So if we look at the cost savings achieved, we set a target of 200 million delivered slightly beyond that. And we are starting to see the annualized savings that will come through this year.
Speaker #1: I think that said, just by the act of all of us having to meet here today and saving at hotel's cost, and you get to see us in real form out working environment, I think there is more by we are looking at all possible places to be able to save and we can, I guess, put in a DNA of being a prudent high fiduciary owner of a company.
Speaker #1: That's where we are in this stage of trying to cut costs. I think some of this is slightly inconvenient, but you get the sense of what we are trying to do.
Speaker #1: I think the headcount and streamlining continues. Over time, as we start to look for are there ways whereby some of these tasks focus AI tools like Copilot that all of us are starting to use can get our team to do more with less.
Speaker #1: And we'll continue to look at that. But I think our shy away from giving a big target number. The easy part of the last two years has been done.
Speaker #1: And we are now going now to looking at exact stuff to say if we do something that will be a trade-off, and we have to decide whether that benefit makes sense.
Speaker #6: Okay. Next question is from Radisan Scout. John, so he's asking, what is your expectations on the trend of the rental in your Chinese mainland portfolio in the upcoming year?
Speaker #1: John?
Speaker #4: Yeah. I mean, obviously, there was a strong negative reversion, but a lot of that was to do with Zhongtong Chen. We know there's been competition there, and we've had to significantly release and remix that mall.
Speaker #4: So actually, if you took out the effect of that single property, the reversions would be more like minus 3.3%, not minus 14.3%. And there are still challenges.
Speaker #4: I think hopefully, if we've got through the impact of that specific asset, then that's already from a reversion's point of view going to make a big difference.
Speaker #4: Closing the rest of the gap, that perhaps is a little bit more challenging. The retail market is still a little weak in China. So we'll have to see.
Speaker #4: But I think the key messages and awful lot of that was down to one property that we have now largely re-let and remixed.
Speaker #6: Thank you. Any more questions from the floor?
Speaker #3: Hi. It's Patrick Wong from Bloomberg Intelligence. So my question is about the credit rating. So if you look at that, I think past years, we observed the NAV per share is coming down, right?
Speaker #3: And the forward value is coming down a bit. So which means that the buffer, right, in terms of the credit rating is also lowering a bit.
Speaker #3: So how we see the potential risk of that? Is this anything we can do in addition to the cost saving exercise and also how we figure out the potential risk with the potential credit rating downgrade could happen at some point if that really having the portfolio value coming down further in the future?
Speaker #1: So thanks, Patrick. I think this is something that we watch very closely. With the board, as far as this credit rating, which is. Our capital management.
Speaker #1: I think what you have seen us and maybe we're a bit lucky is that we have been able to refinance in advance to bring ABC down.
Speaker #1: And that brings interest coverage up. And that then widens up the buffer again. So the other metrics clearly is the LTV. I think today at about 25, 24 on the net basis, there's still enough buffer for us to be comfortable to say we still have a strong balance sheet and credit ratings not at risk.
Speaker #1: So I don't think that is a major concern today unless you say things get worse with interest rate going up, valuation keeps coming down.
Speaker #1: I think that is one part in absolute that everybody gets hit. Then you say across Hong Kong, all the developers and where am I competitively other than one or two guys with net cash?
Speaker #1: I think at S&P 800, we are probably in the upper quartile. So again, from competitive pressure, then the banks and the credit provider have the same effect.
Speaker #1: Who else is still competitively better credit? So I think that game is both absolute and relative. So at this stage, I think we are still in a pretty comfortable zone.
Speaker #1: I don't think we are today with where we are seeing the stabilizing of the rents in the market that we are like what we were where we were two years ago.
Speaker #1: So I think it's okay. Let's see how. In terms of if you say rates move, I think we model it out because of the hedge, because I think we are quite comfortable that we are pretty much prepared in the worst case of an excessive rate hike that might impact us a bit.
Speaker #1: Having hedged 60% now. Thanks.
Speaker #6: Any other questions from the floor?
Speaker #3: Hello management. I got maybe two more questions. I think maybe the first one is for Duncan. You want to you mentioned you want to provide a pretty good unit holder return, right?
Speaker #3: Do you internally have you maybe on your mind, do you have any targets or total shareholder return want to deliver to unit holder NAV?
Speaker #3: I think the first questions. And second question is regarding on the reversion FY27, we basically guided the reversion to be largely a fratish for the magnitude.
Speaker #3: But how about in 228? Do you think under the current condition, we should be able to achieve a neutral rental reversion for Hong Kong retail?
Speaker #3: Thank you.
Speaker #4: Okay. I will have a second to John. The first is it's a moving target. It depends on cycles, the cost of our own capital, and what happens through time.
Speaker #4: What we want to do most of all is create a sustainable pattern of economic return for unit holders of which a significant part through time can be via the distributions.
Speaker #4: So I think it's a moving target that do we have one I could give you one today and it might be different next year.
Speaker #4: It would have been different last year. So I don't think you would expect any fixed target. The closest that we would get as a guide is pre-leveraging.
Speaker #4: We'll often look as we work mouths to have high single-digit returns. And so it all depends on what the capital upside or downside is from that in terms of cycle and what the positive carry is on the debt or not.
Speaker #4: If that hopefully gives you some colour. John? Yeah. I mean, look, I can tell you what I do know. I know that the reversions for the rest of this year are probably going to be fairly similar to where they are, which I know you know already.
Speaker #4: The challenge with trying to predict next year is for the for this year, a lot of the leases are written and a lot of it's already written in stone.
Speaker #4: But actually, we're a lot of the future is not written for next year. So we're reliant some of it is because you have a certain embedded rent level.
Speaker #4: It will certain things I can tell you it will certainly help that we get over this hump of the big reversions from the post-COVID leases.
Speaker #4: And I can reiterate that rental spot rentals do seem to be stable. And therefore, it's really comes down, quite frankly, to how much growth you get in the spot rent.
Speaker #4: We all you all run the model. You know the maths. That's what's going to determine exactly what point we get positive. But as I said to you before, it is encouraging that spot rent levels are stabilising.
Speaker #4: It is encouraging that we're seeing continued growth in both Hong Kong's economy and sales.
Speaker #6: Any further questions from the floor? If okay.
Speaker #3: Thank you. This is Carl from JP Morgan. Maybe just one follow-up question on the cost savings. So we're expecting around 200 million of cost savings at this financial year.
Speaker #3: Does that include the salary for the new CEO? And then for the next financial year, because the new CEO will be onboarded, so should we expect the cost to be roughly stable or actually there may be a bit of increase in terms of cost when the CEO is onboarded?
Speaker #3: Thank you.
Speaker #1: Do you want to answer this?
Speaker #3: I don't think we'd want second guess what the cost of running cost of a CEO would be. But it would be what you might reasonably expect for a company of our size and what the previous CEO earned in his latter stage of his tenure.
Speaker #3: We business plan for all things. So there'd normally be an allowance for that. But KS may want to make a wider comment on costs moving forward.
Speaker #4: So the answer is that I mean, clearly, this year, next year's numbers, we have not included the full cost. We budgeted half year or something in our plan.
Speaker #4: Then like Duncan said, depending on the quality of candidate, the numbers might vary. And let's see. I think there is this small moving part in the scheme of things.
Speaker #4: But I don't think that is going to be material in the scheme of the DPU.
Speaker #6: Okay. Raymond?
Speaker #3: Thank you. This is Raymond Neil from HSB. I actually just got one question, which is about the fund management business under the link 3.0 strategy.
Speaker #3: So we can see that new strategy is actually focused on back to basics. Should we think of the fund management business is now of a much lower priority or no priority in the next 12 months or 24 months?
Speaker #3: Or there will be new strategy going forward for this new growth initiatives? Thank you.
Speaker #4: Again, one for John. But the key the core competence and what we do is own and operate our own mouths. And we've said 80, maybe 90 percent of that.
Speaker #4: So I mean, that's quite a good indication and that must be a priority. We do see all sorts of benefits in having investment partnerships.
Speaker #4: As I said in my entry, and it can be a very effective way of aligning ourselves with long-term investors to get access for our balance sheet to investments we might otherwise not be able to do.
Speaker #3: Yeah. So there are clear benefits to having third-party capital. I think the way we describe it and have for a little while now is good optionality.
Speaker #3: But sort of as somebody mentioned earlier on about buying things and other stuff, the what I'm what the chairman asked me how I'm getting on with a lot is divesting non-core.
Speaker #3: And focusing on the Hong Kong portfolio. He does ask about third-party and there are options on there. But I get a lot more questions the majority of questions are about divestment and non-core.
Speaker #3: And focus on the Hong Kong portfolio.
Speaker #6: Thank you. Maybe I will ask the last questions online then. So there's another question from Reddy y Sun. He's asking about how we're going to handle the asset in Zhongchuan.
Speaker #4: Yeah. Well, look, we're continuing to work on it. We've done a lot of a lot of leasing. And a lot of the there was significant competition and it did lead to vacancy.
Speaker #4: And now we've closed up a decent amount of that vacancy. And so we're continuing to sort of push hard. I mean, I'm not going to say it's been easy.
Speaker #4: It's been hard work. But we're going to continue doing what we do, which is maximise occupancy. And maximise rents where we can. But I think a lot of work has been done at that asset.
Speaker #4: And a lot of releasing has been done.
Speaker #6: Thank you. So that's come to the end of our briefing. Thanks, everyone, for coming. And thanks, management, for the sharing.
Speaker #4: Thank you.
Speaker #3: Thank you.
