Q2 2026 Eckert & Ziegler SE Earnings Call
Speaker #1: To today's analyst conference, August 13, and I'm going to present you the first half-year results of the year 2026. With me is Karolin Riehle, and Julian Schröder, and I'm pretty sure that you will have questions later on.
Speaker #1: Finance-related, and Julian, as always, is well-prepared to step in, correct me, or add what I have tried to present beforehand. I will give you an update for the first 6 months.
Speaker #1: For the first 15 to 20 minutes, and then I open the floor for discussions. You know that what I'm talking is more important than what I have written beforehand, so this is the usual disclaimer.
Speaker #1: And all what we have achieved is accomplished by 1,000 employees around the world, out of which you see here the executive committee with Gunnar Mann and myself representing the Vorstand of the entire executive team is mentioned here, representing both segments as well as the holding.
Speaker #1: For those who are following our presentation, some of these slides are familiar to you. Now, with a lot of excitement, we have added two companies and two deals here.
Speaker #1: Just recently, BWXT Medical has a new owner, up to 800 million, being paid for that business, and 10 times more, 8 billion, USD, have been paid to acquire Lantus.
Speaker #1: So it's not only that the business gets more and more busier, but it's that the momentum continues that big industry and investors are paying a lot of attention to build up here a really big industry for the treatment, for imaging, and treatment of cancer and other treatments around the globe with small companies, big entities, and this story is up for continuation.
Speaker #1: That's why we do believe in a strong uptake for the next 5 years, on a 15% average growth rates up to 2030, the market should exceed 25 billion USD by then.
Speaker #1: And Eckert & Ziegler's aim is to participate, to participate with our broad portfolio of products which we have. You know that our flagship is Gallium Generator.
Speaker #1: It is our lutetium customers where we are getting the momentum now. It's Yttrium, a long-lasting isotope in the market for many, many years, and really contributing to Eckert & Ziegler's success.
Speaker #1: Actinium, being produced regularly, constantly, with high yields, to be sold to customers. And of course, our equipment and services, our CDMO business, I will talk about that in a minute.
Speaker #1: Now, these are the customers in the three main areas: lutetium, actinium, and contract manufacturing. I'm mentioning these three pillars because they are those which are representing the growth momentum.
Speaker #1: I could have also mentioned all the Y90 customers or the Gallia Pharm customers, but here in lutetium, in actinium, and our CMO business, we want to grow.
Speaker #1: We are demonstrating the growth momentum for the years to come, and that's why it is important that we have big customers and also smaller companies.
Speaker #1: On all of these three pillars, which we are making and contract manufacturing for those who are following us for a longer period of time already, you know that we established that business in order to foster the interaction and the relationship with our customers that they do purchase isotopes later on.
Speaker #1: Meanwhile, that business has become an independent franchise in that respect that it is generating growth revenues and profit all of the above, and that is to the satisfaction of the entire strategy execution team.
Speaker #1: Now, here we see the two wings in which we are working, the upper part is the medical segment, the lower part is the industry segment, sources, isotope, sources, and isotopes.
Speaker #1: In all areas, you might dream of, and that's why we are continuing that growth. Talking about medical, because here most of you are taking the highest level of interest, these are four events which took place in the last quarter.
Speaker #1: We have opened our factory in Bintang, in June of this year. We entered into a partnership with Store Medical for the evaluation of business possibilities for LAD, for BLI, flavonium, LAD212.
Speaker #1: We have been awarded for a team award for best managed companies award, and in our baby, our therapy business, a very important certification, the MDR certification has been granted for our eye applicators labeled with lutetium 106.
Speaker #1: So these are four important news which have been published, among others, in order to demonstrate that we are active in all these areas. These are numbers of last year, 55% of the revenue is generated within medical, 64%, so almost two-thirds are generated in terms of the EBIT adjusted within the medical.
Speaker #1: That's demonstrated a higher efficiency where we are working with approximately 400 people in the medical, 600 within the isotope segment. That's why you see here on that slide the revenue per employee is 200,000 with the isotope and 400,000 within the medical segment.
Speaker #1: So that really demonstrates how important that business is and will continue to grow. Also, last year's numbers to start with, our strategy growing top line and bottom line, with a mixed portfolio in both areas.
Speaker #1: And last year, these are well-known numbers with a growth rate of and a margin above 20%. You remember 20% is the threshold we don't want to undermine during the years.
Speaker #1: Now, how does the first half year look like? The press release has been published today morning. For those who do know, the story of Eckert & Ziegler, we were suffering in last year in 2025 by the cyber attack in the first half year.
Speaker #1: And that's why it, for the first half year, a pure Apple-to-Apple comparison remains ambitious due to three effects. A, is the cyber effect; B, is a big license steal in the first half year of last year, which happened with Actinium-based 5 million; and third is the FX adjusted numbers.
Speaker #1: And I would like to highlight that because if you just look to the flat overall sales numbers of 150 to 150 or more or less of the last year, that is only partly true, because there is no license deal this year.
Speaker #1: If that was to include it or adjusted by last year, then logically the sales number would be positive. Most importantly is that radio pharmaceuticals, so the composition of everything which deals with radioactive materials within the pharma business, the pharma world, continue to grow.
Speaker #1: 3% compared to last year. License adjusted even double digit, and that is, I mean, you can adjust whatever you want, but it is important, at least to mention, that in this year there wasn't a license deal yet, and if you compare that with the operator's real business, then it's really a super result of a double digit growth compared to last year.
Speaker #1: Now, there are some positive effects, some lower effects. I come to that in a minute. A mixed picture. And that is also here if you look to the EBIT adjusted number, it's slightly lower than last year.
Speaker #1: Here again, the license deal, of course, this year is missing. And then we have also some other issues within the isotope business. I will talk in a minute.
Speaker #1: Then net income, it's positive. Here with 5% growth compared to last year. If you do some positive effects in terms of financial results, and others.
Speaker #1: Let's look to the two segments with more detailed view. Here we see that our CDMO business really continues to grow 3 million more than last year.
Speaker #1: Lutetium stronger than last year, 2 million more. Y90, 2 million more than last year. And generators also 2 million more. So in all our important areas where we want to demonstrate our growth momentum, we are growing, and that is good to come.
Speaker #1: Now, if you look to pure Actinium deals, of course, as we are missing the license deal in this year, you cannot compare last year to this year.
Speaker #1: So I would say in the pure isotope segment, which really represents the radio pharmaceutical business, positive news. FX adjusted would be even stronger. Now, engineering, our ITD business in Dresden is weak.
Speaker #1: There is less demand, less orders incoming. And that flattens the overall performance within the medical segment. EBIT adjusted, good result here. 7%, even not considering the license deal.
Speaker #1: So with, if you compare that, then the EBIT to EBIT comparison would show an even stronger adjustment and stronger growth on the EBIT adjustment deal.
Speaker #1: So that's overall good. And I think you would agree with that, that the EBIT adjusted margin, even above 30%, is here a skyscraper level.
Speaker #1: Now, isotope, a mixed picture. Flat revenue. And in terms of EBIT adjusted, we see a downgrading here. Minus 24% because the product mix is less favorable.
Speaker #1: We are losing industrial, which is really having a good gross margin, and that we are missing in compared to last year. Now, what is the outlook?
Speaker #1: The outlook for this year is if you compare that in the first quarter of this year compared to first quarter of last year, there was negative growth of almost 50% in terms of EBIT adjusted.
Speaker #1: And that has now come down of basically a flat Q2 result this year, last year, only minus 5%. So what we mentioned earlier on is that the trend is positive, very weak starting point at the beginning of this year, and then step by step we are improving.
Speaker #1: That gives us a lot of confidence that by the end of the year we will achieve what we have planned, what we have budgeted, what we have communicated also in the IP segment.
Speaker #1: And that's why the positive trend is positive. And I think here, if you look to the pure 2Q result here, then it's then we see that Q2 is even better than last year the Q2 of last year.
Speaker #1: This plus 5%. And that demonstrates that the overall performance here for the first half year is positive. There were basically no big adjustments. You see here it's everything below a million.
Speaker #1: So I skipped that slide because there are no big events for the first half year. Where is the revenue and the sales that's coming from?
Speaker #1: Basically no big change some slight deviations. Europe is growing here, more sales in Germany and the UK and Scandinavia. So that's growing. So that 40% of the overall revenue is generated in Europe.
Speaker #1: Also, approximately 40% is coming from North and South America. So no big deviation. China and Asia a little bit less than last year because the license deal is missing here.
Speaker #1: That you can see very easily. Otherwise, also no change. So the group revenue split in the continents is stable in spite of all international conflicts and disruptions you might dream of.
Speaker #1: So here a very stable picture. And if I look to the radio pharmaceutical picture, here again, what is happening, growth, no license deal as compared to last year, but the overall trend positive.
Speaker #1: And also in the years, in the quarters to come, we expect an overall performance in order to achieve our 160 million round of 160 million by the end of the year.
Speaker #1: In the composition of wherefore you're talking Y90. So Lutetium and Actinium. So the bulk radio isotopes, but also our generators, the cold kits of South America, CMO business continue to growth.
Speaker #1: So that overall gives you the picture where basically 50% of the overall company's revenue is coming from. Let's have a look to the balance sheet.
Speaker #1: Cash, cash is king. Still 100 million and slightly more of cash, which we have in our bank account. Then receivables, money which we are collecting is also a good number in terms of overall ratios.
Speaker #1: The loan liabilities on the other side have been further reduced. Only 10 million. So we are basically debt free. And here we see some benchmark.
Speaker #1: EBIT adjusted, I mentioned that number before and is stable. Cash flow is missing here. The license deal, but everything is also according to last year.
Speaker #1: Cash stable. Loan stable. Equity ratio slightly better. And headcount in the area of 1,100 FTEs, around the globe. So basically there is no big changes in terms of the KPIs compared to last year.
Speaker #1: If you want to melt it down, here are the four key factors from equity ratio to cash flow and EBIT adjusted numbers. Outlook, what is the outlook?
Speaker #1: 320 million or the range of 200, 320 million top line, 80 million top line, bottom line. And we remain confident to arrive in that range.
Speaker #1: As we have announced earlier. Before we open the Q&A session, I want to give you some updates why we are always talking about China.
Speaker #1: Why is China so important for us as the supplier of isotopes within the oncology area? If we compare USA and China, we see that unfortunately, and that is the middle chart here of that slide, is that in China for the four most dominant cancer diseases, breast, lung, colon, and liver, it is detected by far too late.
Speaker #1: 70%, 80% of the diseases which are most dominant in China are only detected and imaged when it's basically too late. So we have a new cases of China versus US is twice as high, no surprise.
Speaker #1: We have much more inhabitants. But the death per annum is four to five times higher. So that gives us a strong need. And it illustrates why China is so actively in building up more PTs, pet centers, CT centers.
Speaker #1: They want to double the number within the next 10 years. That more patients should be treated and more hospitals should be equipped to treat and to image cancer.
Speaker #1: And how they want to do it. They want to do it with Lutetium, with Actinium, with Terbium, and with LAD in these areas I just mentioned, lung, colon, thyroid, and liver.
Speaker #1: And these are not only our partners importantly enough, but these are also the big players. And how is the overall landscape? There is demand and availability of our gallium generator.
Speaker #1: And if you look, there are local producers, but Eckert & Ziegler also plays an important role here for the supply of gallium-based generators. Same applies to Y90, the global supplier is basically only ESEC.
Speaker #1: Lutetium we are not producing in China, but we are exporting and we are sending to China because there is a big demand. And let's see how the development for Actinium and later on also for LAD is.
Speaker #1: For Actinium, we are already selling to China and it's good because different to other products being sold in China, here we see a high price for Actinium.
Speaker #1: For the current situation. And Eckert & Ziegler is set up this basically three pillars. We have our network with our distributors, which you see here.
Speaker #1: A lot of distributors working for our products. We have our joint venture with DC Pharma to produce in China for the Chinese market our radio isotopes.
Speaker #1: And we have in our own sales office selling our products into the entire Republic of China. And we are placed in Jintang. Here is our sales office as well as our production and from that perspective, we want to grow and we started that basically that journey three years ago, less than three years in setting up the joint venture.
Speaker #1: Then we are setting up our cyclotone. We had the inauguration in June this year. And in August, the installation of the hot cell took place.
Speaker #1: So we are fully on track in setting up here our production facility. I just want to illustrate here how important China is for the medical market and how Eckert & Ziegler is positioned here.
Speaker #1: With this one, I close the presentation not forgetting Caroline's slide here. What's coming up? There are lots of conferences in Hamburg and Julian is traveling throughout the US area and then we have later on here in Munich and other conferences where we do hope to see you.
Speaker #1: Next quarterly report is November the 12th. With this one, I stop sharing my presentation. Thanks for your attention. And I do open the Q&A session and look who is first.
Speaker #1: I see here the first number and please with this one here. Kim, wonderful.
Speaker #2: Yeah, thank you. Good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my question. I'm wondering about the full year guidance. You're guiding for 80 million of EBIT.
Speaker #2: Now you achieved 33 million in the first half. So you need a significant step up in the second half. I'm aware there's going to be a 5 million license payment that you're expecting in the second half, but can you give us more or can you talk about your confidence and the drivers why the second half should be significantly stronger on EBIT than the first half?
Speaker #2: Thank you.
Speaker #1: This is your only question or is there more?
Speaker #2: The other question is regarding the product mix in isotope. You said there was you suffered from a weak product mix. I think it's due to industrial weakness and also oil well logging.
Speaker #2: How do you see the product mix developing in the second half of the year? That's it. Thank you.
Speaker #1: Okay. Julian, you want to step in here with the bridge from the guidance?
Speaker #3: Sure. Hi Tim. I mean, basically we have a situation with medical is performing quite good. So doubling this plus the 5 million, raw mathematics show us that this works out with the guidance.
Speaker #3: So I think the decisive factor will be isotope products. Looking at isotopes product, we've seen the momentum growing. And as you mentioned, correctly, we still have this weak product mix.
Speaker #3: Going forward, we still expect the industry, including oil well logging products, to maybe not catch up, but to increase. And this will this is the expectation will be a more favorable product mix in H2 as well.
Speaker #3: Plus a third topic for the holding we have this one-time effect in H1 now with a correction from last year. And some reassessment of this year, which will not double and not be shown next half year again.
Speaker #3: So having all this, I think the holding will be better for sure. And IP is going to catch up and medical is either way on a good way.
Speaker #1: And the second question was also the product mix as such for the isotope segment?
Speaker #3: Yeah. I mean, basically covered this. In the end, it's all about industry and oil well logging products. I mean, we're going good with the medical products, with the high activity radiation sources, which is mostly linked to projects.
Speaker #3: That we realize when we have a good order intake, if you want. So the decisive product will be all around this industrial high margin product.
Speaker #2: Yeah, sounds good. Thank you so much. And your customers in the industrial business, are they signaling is that what is your discussions with your customers, is that what is giving you the bullishness for a further or for a pickup in the second half of the year?
Speaker #3: Yeah, we get the feedback from our American colleagues that already the order intake for Q3 is way better than for H1.
Speaker #2: All right. Thank you so much, Julian.
Speaker #3: You're welcome.
Speaker #1: Then Nicola, you're the next number one.
Speaker #4: Yes, thanks for being my question. So maybe two for me. The first one will be on the lithium revenues. I think you highlighted that it's like you had a very strong momentum.
Speaker #4: If you compare to last year, could you kind of run us through what were the drivers that led to that? And is there any one-off or we should expect that, let's say, the trend is finally starting to ramp up and we should continue to see that?
Speaker #4: And we could maybe expect that you might almost reach like double digit million maybe of sales for the year. Something like that. And second question was on what you just discussed about China and the strategy.
Speaker #4: In your view, what will be the ideal geographic split that you will need to have a way to think that long term, we should see maybe 25, 30% of the group revenues there as you highlighted the huge market and let's say not so much international competition for now.
Speaker #4: And lastly, I was also wondering about the medical segment margin. Is it the right read to say that what allowed you to get to the 31% margin is the underperformance of the engineering business?
Speaker #4: And so if we see a normalization there, we should see, let's say, reverse effect of margin? And that's about it.
Speaker #1: And three questions I'm happy to take. So first one was on lutetium. I think we will achieve double digit sales numbers on an annualized level.
Speaker #1: That means if you take on the 12 months perspective. Now for this year, that will be ambitious to achieve because we see a strong order incoming now from June onwards.
Speaker #1: So I cannot confirm that for that year yet. Is it a one-time effect? No. It's really a positive trend in two areas. A, we have our big customer, for which we are setting up our factory and that they are slowly increasing their numbers.
Speaker #1: On the one side, but then also within all the smaller hospitals, and customers, they are intensifying their order pattern, ordering pattern. And that also contributes to a steady flow.
Speaker #1: So our sales team is happy that on a monthly performance, they have not only grown month by month, but it's also stabilizing on a high effect.
Speaker #1: So we are really happy with the development of the lutetium business. Now with China, yes, the number which you are mentioning is our target.
Speaker #1: The question then later on is how you define it. If we produce in our joint venture isotopes, and you tell that this is then a joint venture selling expertise and exercise including into the number which you are mentioning, although we are using it eternally which we are which you will also do, germanium being produced in China, will be also used by ourself.
Speaker #1: So if you take that also by adding up the number which you have mentioned, then it is a good range. And our perspective is as follows.
Speaker #1: We want to be present in all the four big continents: Europe, North America, China, and South America. Not only because of the chemical structure of our products, which have to be close to the customers, but we also want to be to a certain extent producing locally in local markets.
Speaker #1: And that's why it is good to have sites also in Buenos Aires, in Brazil, where we are opening our factory beginning of September. So that all goes into the strategy of being not only a fully fledged supplier of isotopes and equipment, but also to be localized.
Speaker #1: Third question, medical mix. Yeah, 30% plus is something I mean, we always said we don't want to we have to be above 20. And if we are reaching 30%, then we are coming more to the area in which parfum industry works.
Speaker #1: That is not our business. I think that depends. We also want to use the money which we are if we invest, then we have depreciation.
Speaker #1: So a very high number is not necessarily also demonstrating a single-minded super result. So I would say 25 plus is something where I'm more than happy.
Speaker #4: Okay, super. Yeah, thanks.
Speaker #1: Then next one is Switzerland.
Speaker #4: Yeah, hello to them. Also, on medical and the margin, I must say I was quite astonished to see. I mean, I understand that the top line was flat because of the license deal last year.
Speaker #4: So that far I understand. But then you generate more than 2 million more EBIT, so with the sales that compensated a super high margin license deal, you produced more EBIT.
Speaker #4: Which is quite astonishing. I mean, maybe you can explain a little bit in more detail how you managed to sell lutetium and Ethereum, etc.
Speaker #4: at gross margins 90% plus.
Speaker #1: Yeah. It's not everything is as good as lint chocolate, but that is honestly the gross margin for Y90 is good. And I presented that the sales for lutetium are increasing.
Speaker #1: And that also contributes. But more seriously, Julian, you want to contribute to that also.
Speaker #2: Sure. I mean, in the end, it's a mix. A, it's high margin products that are going very well. And this is like for H1, for example, the generator where the margin is not drastically increasing.
Speaker #2: But for other products, as like Ethereum 90 or lutetium in this case, both, the costs are flattish. While our revenues go up. And seeing lutetium, for example, I mean, a couple of you guys here, we talked about it for a couple of times.
Speaker #2: We have the irradiation of the Euterbium 176. And I mean, I won't tell you the factor. It's hard to tell, but once we irradiate the Euterbium, we can sell lutetium for either one or factor X patients.
Speaker #2: And we are in such momentum. We are producing weekly. And this is not 100% what we did last year, but close. So extra revenue is really giving us extra margin.
Speaker #2: Plus the second effect, what Harald already mentioned in the presentation, that our engineering business, the hot sales we produce, is comparably weak this year.
Speaker #2: Due to a couple of reasons. Shifts to intercompany business. We are producing our own hot sales. For Boston, for example, for China. Plus weaker sales.
Speaker #2: So yeah, and this engineering business had very low margins. So going down there, we're top line, we're very set, but bottom line, we're actually.
Speaker #4: Sorry, I understand that the margin might go up, but I mean, the EBIT also went up in absolute numbers. But then I.
Speaker #2: Finally, that's the driver.
Speaker #4: But let me ask differently. I mean, you will last year in the second half, you had another 9 million of license income and this year I think you're expecting some 5 million.
Speaker #4: So there is again a negative delta of some 4 million. Should we expect that all the reasons that you mentioned why EBIT grew in the first half in medical, that this applies also to the second half so that we should expect second half medical EBIT to also be better than last year despite the fact that you still have to compensate for 4 million of license revenues?
Speaker #2: For the time being, I suggest you expect what we're guiding for. I mean, I see where you're coming from and I see that there is a lot of potential, yeah, numbers-wise.
Speaker #2: Operational, there is a little bit of headwinds. So we also really have to work for this. This is not a no this is not just working.
Speaker #2: So the official answer is go with what we guide for. And the rest we will see.
Speaker #4: Okay. Next question, to give you
Speaker #1: some more I mean, Julian mentioned already, we would have laughed to see a stronger performance of the IDD business. We would have laughed that more products have been approved, meanwhile than just Clovicto being on the market.
Speaker #1: If you look to the landscape, there are tons of compounds in the studies but if you look what really matters so far, nah, it is Clovicto.
Speaker #1: And that's why the big wave still to come, but here we are producing Actinu, but we could sell more Actinium because our capacity, I always mentioned that we are lasting here for several thousand patients to be treated for clinical studies.
Speaker #1: But that is only the possible if someone rings the bell and said we have that. So what I wanted to say, Eckert & Ziegler is a first-class supplier but if the demand of isotope isn't as fast as we are scaling up, then sometimes we have to be also patient.
Speaker #1: And that's why the guidance remains ambitious target.
Speaker #4: Sure. Maybe, but on the guidance quickly, my next question, on slide 20, you're now having this 2026 guidance of 160 million. This is 160 million of radio pharmaceutical sales.
Speaker #4: Not medical. Because in the past, sometimes you would say group and then you would split up isotope and medical. But the 160 million is radio pharmaceutical sales.
Speaker #4: Okay. So we will see a strong acceleration then obviously. I mean, that's 160, you had 70 in the first half. So we should expect 90 million of sales in radio pharmaceuticals in the second half.
Speaker #4: That compares to 77 million you had in the second half last year. Do I read this correctly?
Speaker #1: Yeah, because we want to we have stronger sales in Y90, we have stronger sales in lutetium, we have stronger sales in gallium.
Speaker #4: Okay. No, it sounds very good. And you have 4 million less in licensing comp. But still. Okay. Then my last question is, there was this consolidation.
Speaker #4: There was like Curium, buying Monrol or something like this, a Turkish company. And apparently they are producing gallium, generator themselves. And Curium used to be a distributor for your generator in France.
Speaker #4: And now they're going to sell their own generator and probably competing not only in France with you guys, but maybe also on a global scale.
Speaker #4: I mean, can you comment on this, the competitive landscape in gallium generators? I mean, so far they used to be two, now it seems there are three players.
Speaker #4: So maybe if you can highlight this quickly. Thank you.
Speaker #1: So the question is a good question. It's not completely unexpected, but let me give you some light on that. We had for many, many years, it was Eckert & Ziegler basically alone on the market.
Speaker #1: Then IRE joined the market, then ITM joined the market. ITM basically disappeared. Now we have Monrol generators coming onto the market. Then we have also some from South Africa and other areas.
Speaker #1: We have potentially also a Chinese generator entering the market. So the market is growing. And that is a good signal to the market. There is extremely increasing demand.
Speaker #1: And that's why the stronger the demand is and the high price area, it is attractive also for competitors to join. And that's why I'm happy that we have more competitors.
Speaker #1: Because that demonstrates that we are playing in the right market. I'm afraid or I'm nervous or you name it about competitors because I have to share potentially the growing cake with other people with appetite.
Speaker #1: And the same applies also to the Curium generator. They aim to enter into the market. And they have potentially a fairly good generator. Now, what triggers the decision of a potential.
Speaker #1: Customer to buy a generator, it is experience, it is reliability, it is redundancy, it is perks price, not so sure. But the end of the end, of the day, it's quality, quality, quality.
Speaker #1: And Eckert & Ziegler is in the market for more than a decade. We have different sources of germanium. So if one of our raw materials supplier of the precursors fails to supply, we can easily shift to someone else.
Speaker #1: So I think we are super well equipped with a long track record. So I'm not afraid of other competitors into the market. Sometimes they probably will also gain a customer, but we are well established to defend our position here.
Speaker #4: Okay. Thank you.
Speaker #1: Then I think Alexei is the next one here.
Speaker #5: Hello. Thank you. So Dr. Hasselmann, can you hear me? Thank you. May I ask you three questions? They're all very brief. Could I ask you if you could comment on any effects that you've seen from the introduction of Gazellex into the market by Telex?
Speaker #5: My second question is that at this point, last year, on generators, you said that the order book for this year, that's 2025, is full.
Speaker #5: The order book for next year is almost complete, not fully, but almost complete. So could I ask you to comment on the level of order books for generators as it stands at the moment, please?
Speaker #5: And a third question, my final question, which is more general, could you comment on whether you think copper dota tapes has any ability to take share from gallium dota tapes?
Speaker #5: And that's it. Thank you.
Speaker #1: Thank you. Thank you, Alex. So Gazellex is has been introduced by Telex in order to broaden up their possibilities to enter into the market.
Speaker #1: It can be used both either by the Cyclotron and also by a generator. Now, what are we doing in the most dominant market? We belong a new generation of generator, the so-called Galia Farm 200 by the beginning of next year.
Speaker #1: And that can be also used with the Gazellex kit. So that means that the hospitals which do not have a Cyclotron, they can also rely on our high-quality and quantity and high activity generator Galia Farm 200 in order to cope with that.
Speaker #1: So I'm pretty confident that we here again, we will profit with the growing market. And if you look what Telex can do, they are growing and they are defending their position not only against other gallium-based kit producers, but also against the F18.
Speaker #1: And that brings me to your third question, are we afraid of copper? I think the race currently is between F18 and gallium. And copper might become interesting, but we don't see so far any indication that we are losing business or.
Speaker #1: Generator business to the disadvantage of gallium or the advantage of copper for dota tapes so far. That is not really placing a big board.
Speaker #1: The order book normally we have a lead time of six weeks. So customers are asked to place their orders six weeks in advance. In order to be shipped with a generator in due time.
Speaker #1: Now, that would be six weeks from today. Annual would be order book end of September. But if I speak to my colleagues in the customer service department, they know pretty much what they will have sold by the end of the year.
Speaker #1: So the order book until the end of the year, I wouldn't say it's 100% sure, but we can pretty much predict how many generators we will sell until the end of the year.
Speaker #1: Super. And then I have the next one is Simon Keller.
Speaker #2: Yes. Hello. Thank you for taking my two questions. Firstly, on the M&A market that you've also described earlier, do you think these deals have any positive or negative impact on your business?
Speaker #2: Especially those two deals that you've mentioned today. And are you considering to play an active role as a consolidator as well? What's the drawbacks or what's your consideration here?
Speaker #2: And then secondly, on the I mean, the Telex readout on bypass phase three study is still outstanding for quite some time. And I was wondering whether you see any chances for guideline changes even before the readout.
Speaker #2: Thank you.
Speaker #1: Okay. So the M&A market, I'm wondering about the prices PE companies are sometimes paying in a general statement. And that is rather a personal statement of Harald Hasselmann than here an official Eckert & Ziegler statement to be taken as such.
Speaker #1: But I'm surprised how much money is paid for companies within the industry. Overall, it is a signal that the money which is available is invested in radio pharmaceutical companies because they do believe with good reason that they can harvest later on more money out of their investment than they have put into the money.
Speaker #1: And if they put 8 million in, billion in, they have a business case which justifies that investment. And so I'm surprised on the one side about these high money being paid but I'm also happy that so much money is invested because it demonstrates that we are on the right track where if money is invested into that industry, we can expect that also outcome will be available and the better the outcome of these developments is, the better it is for us as Eckert & Ziegler as a supplier of isotopes for that area.
Speaker #1: For that specific ones which you have mentioned, BWXT is a super company and they will now be probably in an area in which they can position themselves as a good player and we have areas where we compete and where we have cooperate and that will continue so I don't think that on a normal professional business life, we will see a lot of changes on neither on the first nor on the second year which just happened.
Speaker #1: We'll be play an active role in the consolidation. I would give you the answer slightly differently. I would say we are very carefully looking to the opportunities in the market.
Speaker #1: And if something interesting pops up, we will consider that very seriously. What I can promise you, Eckert & Ziegler is not in the situation to take a loan of 8 billion and to buy companies of that range.
Speaker #1: But we will look to what fits to us where we can add and that's why our current discussion which we have for instance with our corporation partner Tor where we investigating possibilities to work together, that not necessarily enters into M&A deals, but rather in cooperation deals.
Speaker #1: So both we are open for both. More cooperations and smaller M&A deals and if that happens, you will be one of the first being informed about it.
Speaker #2: Thank you. And regarding the bypass phase three study, I mean, or basically saying whether guideline changes are possible.
Speaker #1: No guideline change because that will take longer. The bypass study as such is as far as I know about the bypass study, it's a super indication because it would enable all the urologists to replace a biopsy by a PET scan with gallium.
Speaker #1: And so if the results are positive, that will also boost the overall business. And then we will gain on that. But I don't expect that this will influence this year's guidance.
Speaker #2: Thank you.
Speaker #1: Alex, you have raised your hand. I don't know whether that is still the case.
Speaker #3: Yes. I just have one follow-up question please on what you said about the upcoming Keliapharm 200. My reading of the prescribing information from Gazellex is that it's compatible with Eckert Generators.
Speaker #3: It doesn't specify whether it's the standard model or the Galiapharm 100. But going by the numbering principle, a Galiapharm 200 would be very large and powerful.
Speaker #3: What purpose does that serve for a remote hospital that presumably has only a very small amount of people? What do you need to introduce the Galiapharm 200 to do that the 100 does not do or that the standard one does not do?
Speaker #1: Yeah. Very good question, Alex. Basically, the reason why we are launching the Galiapharm 200 is of two reasons. One is we want to demonstrate hopefully successfully demonstrate that Eckert & Ziegler is always front of the edge in launching new adaptions of the existing model.
Speaker #1: So if the Galiapharm 200 will be launched, it will be the first in market with these high activity generators. Now, why is it used for?
Speaker #1: It will be used for those radio pharmacies in the US market who either need the high quality activity from the very beginning onwards or whether they have a high number of illusions to be pulled out during the day.
Speaker #1: And that can be easier done with a so to answer your question, the Galiapharm 200 will be more and more than used by the high quantity radio pharmacies who are currently saying now 50 is not enough, 100 is not enough.
Speaker #1: I could put 200 in a row or combine it, but then rather I pay more money for a Galiapharm 200. It will be a softer start.
Speaker #1: So in the beginning, if we meet in Q1 of next year and Nikola asked me how many generators, 200 had been sold so far.
Speaker #1: So that will be a very low number. But it demonstrates that we are on the market. And then it will grow step by step.
Speaker #3: Okay. Thank you very much.
Speaker #1: Don't see any more questions. Thank you very much for your attention. And please reach out if there is more to be answered in the next days.
