Half Year 2026 CapitaLand Integrated Commercial Trust Earnings Call

Speaker #2: Testing.

Speaker #1: Good morning. Welcome to CICT's first half results briefing. Today, we are somewhere special: the Paragon Club. It's a members' lounge reserved for its top-tier members, and if you'd like to return, you can start spending after the briefing.

Allison Chen: Good morning. Welcome to CICT's H1 results briefing. Today, we are in somewhere special, the Paragon Club. It is a members lounge reserved for its top-tier members. If you would like to return, you can start spending after the briefing. Remember to spend generously to support our economy and, of course, our tenant sales. Thank you very much. Jokes aside, we are very happy to have you with us today. To those joining online, thank you for dialing in. In a moment's time, we will have our CEO, Chun Siang, walk us through his key highlights for the H1 results. Following that, we will move on to the Q&A segment with the rest of the management team. With that, I would like to hand the time over to Chun Siang.

Allison Chen: Good morning. Welcome to CICT's H1 results briefing. Today, we are in somewhere special, the Paragon Club. It is a members lounge reserved for its top-tier members. If you would like to return, you can start spending after the briefing. Remember to spend generously to support our economy and, of course, our tenant sales. Thank you very much. Jokes aside, we are very happy to have you with us today. To those joining online, thank you for dialing in. In a moment's time, we will have our CEO, Choon Siang, walk us through his key highlights for the H1 results. Following that, we will move on to the Q&A segment with the rest of the management team. With that, I would like to hand the time over to Choon Siang.

Speaker #1: And remember to spend generously to support our economy and, of course, our tenants' sales. Thank you very much. Jokes aside, we are very happy to have you with us today.

Speaker #1: And to those joining online, thank you for dialing in. In a moment, we'll have our CEO, Chun Xiang, walk us through his key highlights for the first-half results.

Speaker #1: Following that, we'll move on to the Q&A segment with the rest of the management team. And with that, I'd like to hand the time over to Chun Xiang.

Speaker #4: Okay. Thank you, Allison. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. If you're wondering why we gathered all of you here today, it's not because we have a major AEI to announce.

Tan Choon Siang: Okay. Thank you, Allison. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. If you are wondering why we gathered all of you here today, it is not because we have a major AEI here to announce. Someone asked me that this morning, so I thought I would get it out of the way. We just wanted to showcase the beautiful property that we have just acquired. Nothing more than that. I think most of you would not have been into this club before because it is actually quite new. It was recently renovated sometime early this year as part of an amenity perk to some of our higher-tier members in the Paragon Club. Before you leave today, please sign up for the Paragon Club membership. For the use of this lounge, I think you just need to spend SGD 25,000 a year. Shouldn't be hard. Two watches will do the deal.

Choon Siang Tan: Okay. Thank you, Allison. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining us today. If you are wondering why we gathered all of you here today, it is not because we have a major AEI here to announce. Someone asked me that this morning, so I thought I would get it out of the way. We just wanted to showcase the beautiful property that we have just acquired. Nothing more than that. I think most of you would not have been into this club before because it is actually quite new. It was recently renovated sometime early this year as part of an amenity perk to some of our higher-tier members in the Paragon Club. Before you leave today, please sign up for the Paragon Club membership. For the use of this lounge, I think you just need to spend SGD 25,000 a year. Shouldn't be hard. Two watches will do the deal.

Speaker #4: Someone asked me that this morning, so I thought I'd get it out of the way. We just wanted to showcase the beautiful property that we've just acquired.

Speaker #4: Nothing more than that. And I think most of you would not have been into this club before because it's actually quite new. It was recently renovated, sometime early this year, as part of an amenity perk to some of our higher-tier members in the Paragon Club.

Speaker #4: So before you leave today, please sign up for the Paragon Club membership. For the use of this lounge, I think you just need to spend $25,000 a year.

Speaker #4: It shouldn't be hard. Two watches will do the deal. Okay, anyway, without further ado, let's start off with the day's presentation proper. You guys would have seen the results that we have put out early this morning.

Tan Choon Siang: Anyway, without further ado, let us start off with today's presentation proper. You guys would have seen the results that we have put out early this morning. We are very pleased to present the results for our H1 2026. The past six months were marked by very strong execution of our growth strategy, including portfolio reconstitution. You have seen our announcements in terms of the sale of Bukit Panjang, the bidding for the Hougang land, and then the acquisition of Paragon together with the divestment of Asia Square. We have also a very active asset management as well as a very disciplined capital management. All of those things have contributed to our very strong results. These efforts have enhanced the quality of our portfolio and positioned CICT for future growth. I will walk you through some of our financial highlights as well as our operational performance.

Choon Siang Tan: Anyway, without further ado, let us start off with today's presentation proper. You guys would have seen the results that we have put out early this morning. We are very pleased to present the results for our H1 2026. The past six months were marked by very strong execution of our growth strategy, including portfolio reconstitution. You have seen our announcements in terms of the sale of Bukit Panjang, the bidding for the Hougang land, and then the acquisition of Paragon together with the divestment of Asia Square. We have also a very active asset management as well as a very disciplined capital management. All of those things have contributed to our very strong results. These efforts have enhanced the quality of our portfolio and positioned CICT for future growth. I will walk you through some of our financial highlights as well as our operational performance.

Speaker #4: We're very pleased to present the results for our first half of 2026. The past six months were marked by very strong execution of our growth strategy, including portfolio reconstitution.

Speaker #4: You have seen our announcements regarding the sale of Bukit Panjang, the bidding for the Aokang land, and the acquisition of Paragon, together with the divestment of Asia Square.

Speaker #4: We have also been very active in asset management, as well as very disciplined in capital management. All of these things have contributed to our strong results.

Speaker #4: These efforts have enhanced the quality of our portfolio and positioned CICT for future growth. I'll walk you through some of our financial highlights, as well as our operational performance.

Speaker #4: So we delivered a very strong first half, as you can see. NPI increased 8.7% year on year to 630 million. Distributable income increased 13% year on year to 466 million, while DPU grew 7.1% year on year to 6.02 cents.

Tan Choon Siang: We delivered a very strong H1, as you can see. NPI increased 8.7% year on year to SGD 630 million. Distributable income increased 13% year on year to SGD 466 million, while DPU grew 7.1% year on year to SGD 6.02 cents. Importantly, this DPU growth was achieved despite the enlarged unit base following our equity fundraising in April this year. This reflects the strong operating performance of our portfolio, the step-up acquisition of CapitaSpring, supported by lower interest expenses. Operationally, occupancy remains high at 95.6%, while rent reversions are healthy at +4% for retail and 7.6% for office. At the same time, we continued to maintain a healthy balance sheet, lowering aggregate leverage from 38.5% to 37.4%, while keeping our average cost of debt at 2.9%. As part of our strategy to grow the portfolio both organically and inorganically, we have been actively executing various initiatives.

Choon Siang Tan: We delivered a very strong H1, as you can see. NPI increased 8.7% year on year to SGD 630 million. Distributable income increased 13% year on year to SGD 466 million, while DPU grew 7.1% year on year to SGD 6.02 cents. Importantly, this DPU growth was achieved despite the enlarged unit base following our equity fundraising in April this year. This reflects the strong operating performance of our portfolio, the step-up acquisition of CapitaSpring, supported by lower interest expenses. Operationally, occupancy remains high at 95.6%, while rent reversions are healthy at +4% for retail and 7.6% for office. At the same time, we continued to maintain a healthy balance sheet, lowering aggregate leverage from 38.5% to 37.4%, while keeping our average cost of debt at 2.9%. As part of our strategy to grow the portfolio both organically and inorganically, we have been actively executing various initiatives.

Speaker #4: Importantly, this DPU growth was achieved despite the enlarged unit base, following our equity fundraising in April this year. This reflects the strong operating performance of our portfolio and the step-up acquisition of Capital Spring, supported by lower interest expenses.

Speaker #4: Operationally, occupancy remains high at 95.6%, while rent reversions are healthy at a positive 4% for retail and 7.6% for our office segment. At the same time, we continue to maintain a healthy balance sheet, lowering aggregate leverage from 38.5% to 37.4%, while keeping our average cost of debt at 2.9%.

Speaker #4: As part of our strategy to grow the portfolio both organically and inorganically, we have been actively executing various initiatives. We completed the acquisition of Paragon on July 1.

Tan Choon Siang: We completed the acquisition of Paragon on 1 July. This strengthens our presence in Orchard Road and adds a freehold premium integrated development to our portfolio. On the divestment front, the sale of Asia Square Tower 2 remains on track with completion expected in the H2 of the year. We are also progressing with several AEIs and upgrading initiatives across the portfolio. These are aimed at uplisting our assets to strengthen income resilience and drive long-term value creation. Together, these initiatives demonstrate our active approach to growing the portfolio. Our Tampines Mall AEI is progressing well with about 96% of the AEI space committed or in advanced negotiations. We have curated a lineup of brands across beauty, F&B, shoes and bags, and fashion accessories, among other categories. Several brands have already opened. More brands will progressively open through the H2 of the year.

Choon Siang Tan: We completed the acquisition of Paragon on 1 July. This strengthens our presence in Orchard Road and adds a freehold premium integrated development to our portfolio. On the divestment front, the sale of Asia Square Tower 2 remains on track with completion expected in the H2 of the year. We are also progressing with several AEIs and upgrading initiatives across the portfolio. These are aimed at uplisting our assets to strengthen income resilience and drive long-term value creation. Together, these initiatives demonstrate our active approach to growing the portfolio. Our Tampines Mall AEI is progressing well with about 96% of the AEI space committed or in advanced negotiations. We have curated a lineup of brands across beauty, F&B, shoes and bags, and fashion accessories, among other categories. Several brands have already opened. More brands will progressively open through the H2 of the year.

Speaker #4: This strengthens our presence in Orchard Road and adds a freehold premium integrated development to our portfolio. On the divestment front, the sale of Asia Square Tower 2 remains on track, with completion expected in the second half of the year.

Speaker #4: We are also progressing with several AEIs and upgrading initiatives across the portfolio. These are aimed at uplifting our assets to strengthen income resilience and drive long-term value creation.

Speaker #4: Together, these initiatives demonstrate our active approach to growing the portfolio. Our company's small AEI is progressing well, with about 96% of the AEI space committed or in advanced negotiations.

Speaker #4: We have curated a lineup of brands across beauty, F&B, shoes and bags, and fashion accessories, among other categories. Several brands have already opened, and more brands will progressively open throughout the second half of the year.

Speaker #4: As more of this concept comes on stream, they will further elevate the retail proposition, deepen stronger shopper engagement, and reinforce the mall's long-term growth potential.

Tan Choon Siang: As more of these concepts come on stream, they will further elevate the mall's retail proposition, deepen stronger shopper engagement, and reinforce the mall's long-term growth potential. Let me take you through the summary of CICT's H1 results. Gross revenue increased 7.5% to SGD 846.8 million, and NPI grew 8.7% to SGD 630.5 million. This was driven mainly by CapitaSpring step-up acquisition and the contribution from Gallileo, partially offset by the divestment of Bukit Panjang Plaza. Distribution income from joint ventures was lower at SGD 16.7 million, down 19.5%. This decline is optical rather than operational, as CapitaSpring income is now fully consolidated at the NPI level following the acquisition of the remaining 55% interest, so it no longer flows through the JV line. Next, distributable income rose 13.3%, SGD 466.7 million, a strong double-digit uplift.

Choon Siang Tan: As more of these concepts come on stream, they will further elevate the mall's retail proposition, deepen stronger shopper engagement, and reinforce the mall's long-term growth potential. Let me take you through the summary of CICT's H1 results. Gross revenue increased 7.5% to SGD 846.8 million, and NPI grew 8.7% to SGD 630.5 million. This was driven mainly by CapitaSpring step-up acquisition and the contribution from Gallileo, partially offset by the divestment of Bukit Panjang Plaza. Distribution income from joint ventures was lower at SGD 16.7 million, down 19.5%. This decline is optical rather than operational, as CapitaSpring income is now fully consolidated at the NPI level following the acquisition of the remaining 55% interest, so it no longer flows through the JV line. Next, distributable income rose 13.3%, SGD 466.7 million, a strong double-digit uplift.

Speaker #4: Let me take you through the summary of CICT's first half results. Gross revenue increased 7.5% to $846.8 million, and NPI grew 8.7% to $630.5 million.

Speaker #4: This was driven mainly by the Capital Spring step-up acquisition and the contribution from Galileo, partially offset by the divestment of Bukit Panjang Plaza. Distribution income from joint ventures was lower at $16.7 million, down 19.5%.

Speaker #4: This decline is optical rather than operational, as CapitaSpring income is now fully consolidated at the NPI level, following the acquisition of the remaining 55% interest.

Speaker #4: So it no longer flows through the JV line. Next, distributable income rose 13.3% to $466.7 million, a strong double-digit uplift. DPU grew 7.1% to 6.02 cents—a robust increase, although roughly half the growth of the distributable income.

Tan Choon Siang: DPU grew 7.1% to SGD 6.02 cents, a robust increase, although roughly half of the growth in the distributable income. The difference is due to the enlarged unit base. On a weighted average basis, units in the issue grew 5.8% to about 7.73 billion, reflecting largely the private placement of 326 million units used to fund our Paragon acquisition. Despite absorbing a 5.8% increase in unit base, we still recorded a 7.1% increase in DPU. For the Q2, gross revenue increased 7.0%, while NPI grew 9.6%. We have covered the H1 performance, so I'll move on to the next slide. Our portfolio continues to deliver income diversification, which provides resilience and enables us to capture opportunities across sectors while mitigating concentration risk. We have paid an advanced distribution of SGD 3.98 cents for the period from 1 January to 28 April on 8 June 2026.

Choon Siang Tan: DPU grew 7.1% to SGD 6.02 cents, a robust increase, although roughly half of the growth in the distributable income. The difference is due to the enlarged unit base. On a weighted average basis, units in the issue grew 5.8% to about 7.73 billion, reflecting largely the private placement of 326 million units used to fund our Paragon acquisition. Despite absorbing a 5.8% increase in unit base, we still recorded a 7.1% increase in DPU. For the Q2, gross revenue increased 7.0%, while NPI grew 9.6%. We have covered the H1 performance, so I'll move on to the next slide. Our portfolio continues to deliver income diversification, which provides resilience and enables us to capture opportunities across sectors while mitigating concentration risk. We have paid an advanced distribution of SGD 3.98 cents for the period from 1 January to 28 April on 8 June 2026.

Speaker #4: The difference is due to the enlarged unit base. On a weighted average basis, units in issue grew 5.8% to about 7.73 billion, reflecting largely the private placement of 326 million units used to fund our Paragon acquisition.

Speaker #4: Despite absorbing a 5.8% increase in unit base, we still recorded a 7.1% increase in DPU. For the second quarter, gross revenue increased 7.0%, while NPI grew 9.6%.

Speaker #4: We have covered the first half performance, so I'll move on to the next slide. Our portfolio continues to deliver income diversification, which provides resilience and enables us to capture opportunities across sectors while mitigating concentration risk.

Speaker #4: We have paid an advanced distribution of 3.98 cents for the period from 1 January to 28 April, on 8 June 2026. Unit holders may wish to note that the remaining distribution of 2.04 cents will be paid on 25 September 2026.

Tan Choon Siang: Unitholders may wish to note that the remaining distribution of 2.04 cents will be paid on 25 September 2026. Our balance sheet remains healthy. NAV increased to SGD 2.15 from SGD 2.14 from 31 December 2025. We continue to strengthen our balance sheet through disciplined capital management. With the temporary repayment of debt using proceeds from the equity fund raise, aggregate leverage is reduced to 37.4% from 38.5%. Average cost of debt remains stable at 2.9%. Our debt maturity profile remains well spread out, with maturities extending to 2035. This helps reduce refinancing concentration and gives us flexibility to manage funding requirements across different market conditions. Our interest rate exposure remains manageable, with a 1% increase in interest rates. The estimated DPU impact is about 0.27 cents. On our portfolio and asset performance, occupancy remains high at 95.6%, up 0.4%, supported by proactive leasing and active asset management.

Choon Siang Tan: Unitholders may wish to note that the remaining distribution of 2.04 cents will be paid on 25 September 2026. Our balance sheet remains healthy. NAV increased to SGD 2.15 from SGD 2.14 from 31 December 2025. We continue to strengthen our balance sheet through disciplined capital management. With the temporary repayment of debt using proceeds from the equity fund raise, aggregate leverage is reduced to 37.4% from 38.5%. Average cost of debt remains stable at 2.9%. Our debt maturity profile remains well spread out, with maturities extending to 2035. This helps reduce refinancing concentration and gives us flexibility to manage funding requirements across different market conditions. Our interest rate exposure remains manageable, with a 1% increase in interest rates. The estimated DPU impact is about 0.27 cents. On our portfolio and asset performance, occupancy remains high at 95.6%, up 0.4%, supported by proactive leasing and active asset management.

Speaker #4: Our balance sheet remains healthy, NAV increased to 2.2 dollars and 15 cents from 2 dollars and 14 cents from 31 December 2025. We continue to strengthen our balance sheet through disciplined capital management.

Speaker #4: With a temporary repayment of debt using proceeds from the equity fundraise, aggregate leverage is reduced to 37.4% from 38.5%, and the average cost of debt remains stable at 3.29%.

Speaker #4: Our debt maturity profile remains well spread out, with maturities extending to 2035. This helps reduce refinancing concentration and gives us flexibility to manage funding requirements across different market conditions.

Speaker #4: Our interest rate exposure remains manageable. With a 1% increase in interest rates, the estimated DPU impact is about 0.27 cents. On our portfolio and asset performance, occupancy remains high at 95.6%, up 0.4%, supported by proactive leasing and active asset management. WALE will remain stable at about 3 years.

Tan Choon Siang: WALE remains stable at about three years. Top 10 list of tenants is unchanged. They contribute only 16% of gross rental income, and no single tenant contributes more than 5%. As such, tenant concentration risk remains low. Lease expiry profile, relatively balanced across the next five years. Lease expiries in 2026 are manageable, with 5.8% of the 9% lease expiries already in advanced negotiations. Our tenant base remains diversified across multiple trade sectors and will continue to support our portfolio resilience. Leasing activity remains healthy across both retail and office portfolios, and they continue to register high retention rates. For retail, demand in the Q2 is mainly driven by F&B, beauty and health, and fashion accessories. While for office, demand is mainly from IT and telecoms, legal and banking, insurance and financial services. Retail occupancy remains strong at 97.7%, well above Singapore's retail market occupancy.

Choon Siang Tan: WALE remains stable at about three years. Top 10 list of tenants is unchanged. They contribute only 16% of gross rental income, and no single tenant contributes more than 5%. As such, tenant concentration risk remains low. Lease expiry profile, relatively balanced across the next five years. Lease expiries in 2026 are manageable, with 5.8% of the 9% lease expiries already in advanced negotiations. Our tenant base remains diversified across multiple trade sectors and will continue to support our portfolio resilience. Leasing activity remains healthy across both retail and office portfolios, and they continue to register high retention rates. For retail, demand in the Q2 is mainly driven by F&B, beauty and health, and fashion accessories. While for office, demand is mainly from IT and telecoms, legal and banking, insurance and financial services. Retail occupancy remains strong at 97.7%, well above Singapore's retail market occupancy.

Speaker #4: The top 10 list of tenants is unchanged. They contribute only 16% of gross rental income, and no single tenant contributes more than 5%. As such, tenant concentration risk remains low.

Speaker #4: The lease expiry profile remains relatively balanced across the next five years. Lease expiries in 2026 are manageable, with 5.8% of the 9% lease expiries already in advanced negotiations.

Speaker #4: Our tenant base remains diversified across multiple trade sectors and will continue to support our portfolio resilience. Leasing activity remains healthy across both retail and office portfolios, and they continue to register high retention rates.

Speaker #4: For retail, demand in the second quarter is mainly driven by F&B, beauty and health, and fashion accessories. While for office, demand is mainly from IT and telecoms, legal, and banking, insurance, and financial services.

Speaker #4: Retail occupancy remains strong at 97.7%, well above Singapore's retail market occupancy. There is a slight drop in downtown occupancy, mainly due to the AEI at Plaza Singapura and The Atrium@Orchard, as well as some natural lease expiries.

Tan Choon Siang: There is a slight drop in the downtown occupancy, mainly due to the AEI at Plaza Singapura and the atrium at Orchard, as well as some natural lease expiries. For the H1, we continue to deliver positive rent reversions across both our downtown and suburban portfolios. Suburban malls achieved stronger rent reversion of 5.1%, while downtown malls recorded 3.2%, resulting in a retail portfolio rental reversion of 4.0%. Our retail portfolio continued to deliver resilient tenant sales growth. Portfolio tenant sales increased 1.6% year-on-year, supported by new store openings, seasonal promotions, and healthy trading across key categories. Fashion and accessories and jewelry and watches were among the key contributors. Downtown malls were resilient, achieving growth of 1.7%, while suburban malls recorded an increase of 1.6%. A slight moderation from the previous quarter, consistent with the broader retail environment.

Choon Siang Tan: There is a slight drop in the downtown occupancy, mainly due to the AEI at Plaza Singapura and the atrium at Orchard, as well as some natural lease expiries. For the H1, we continue to deliver positive rent reversions across both our downtown and suburban portfolios. Suburban malls achieved stronger rent reversion of 5.1%, while downtown malls recorded 3.2%, resulting in a retail portfolio rental reversion of 4.0%. Our retail portfolio continued to deliver resilient tenant sales growth. Portfolio tenant sales increased 1.6% year-on-year, supported by new store openings, seasonal promotions, and healthy trading across key categories. Fashion and accessories and jewelry and watches were among the key contributors. Downtown malls were resilient, achieving growth of 1.7%, while suburban malls recorded an increase of 1.6%. A slight moderation from the previous quarter, consistent with the broader retail environment.

Speaker #4: For the first half, we continued to deliver positive rent reversions across both our downtown and suburban portfolios. Suburban malls achieved a stronger rent reversion of 5.1%, while downtown malls recorded 3.2%, resulting in a retail portfolio rental reversion of 4.0%.

Speaker #4: Our retail portfolio continued to deliver resilient tenant sales growth. Portfolio tenant sales increased 1.6% year on year, supported by new store openings, seasonal promotions, and healthy trading across key categories.

Speaker #4: Fashion, accessories, jewelry, and watches were among the key contributors. Downtown malls were resilient, achieving growth of 1.7%, while suburban malls recorded an increase of 1.6%.

Speaker #4: A slight moderation from the previous quarter, consistent with the broader retail environment. We continue to curate our tenant mix with new-to-market and new-to-portfolio brands and concepts across F&B, hobbies, leisure, and entertainment.

Tan Choon Siang: We continue to curate our tenant mix with new-to-market and new-to-portfolio brands and concepts across F&B, hobbies, and leisure and entertainment. Our office portfolio remains resilient, with occupancy improving to 94.4%, up 0.7% from the previous quarter, with uplifts across Singapore, Germany, and our Australia portfolio. In Singapore, average office rents continued the upward trend, reaching SGD 11.03 per square foot per month. Across our Singapore Grade A office assets, the expiring rents in 2026 are largely below prevailing market rents. This positions us well to capture positive rent reversion when leases are committed. Leasing discussions are already underway for majority of the near-term expiries. Looking ahead, CICT's growth trajectory remains firmly on track.

Choon Siang Tan: We continue to curate our tenant mix with new-to-market and new-to-portfolio brands and concepts across F&B, hobbies, and leisure and entertainment. Our office portfolio remains resilient, with occupancy improving to 94.4%, up 0.7% from the previous quarter, with uplifts across Singapore, Germany, and our Australia portfolio. In Singapore, average office rents continued the upward trend, reaching SGD 11.03 per square foot per month. Across our Singapore Grade A office assets, the expiring rents in 2026 are largely below prevailing market rents. This positions us well to capture positive rent reversion when leases are committed. Leasing discussions are already underway for majority of the near-term expiries. Looking ahead, CICT's growth trajectory remains firmly on track.

Speaker #4: Our office portfolio remains resilient, with occupancy improving to 94.4%, up 0.7% from the previous quarter, with uplifts across the Singapore, Germany, and Australia portfolios. In Singapore, average office rents continued the upward trend, reaching $11.03 per square foot per month.

Speaker #4: Across our Singapore Grade A office assets, the expiring rents in 2026 are largely below prevailing market rents. This position enables us to capture positive rent reversion when leases are committed.

Speaker #4: Leasing discussions are already underway for a majority of the near-term expiries. Looking ahead, CICT's growth trajectory remains firmly on track. We have clear income drivers that will continue to support growth, including progressive income contribution from Galileo, the addition of Paragon following its completion on 1 July, as well as the continued flow-through of positive rental reversions achieved across our portfolio.

Tan Choon Siang: We have clear income drivers that will continue to support growth, including progressive income contribution from Gallileo, the addition of Paragon following its completion on 1 July, as well as the continued flow-through of positive rental reversions achieved across our portfolio. At the same time, we remain disciplined in managing our cost and capital. Energy rates for our Singapore portfolio have been hedged through to mid-2027, providing greater certainty over key operating costs. Supported by a strong balance sheet, a diversified portfolio of high-quality assets, we are well-positioned to navigate market uncertainties, capture growth opportunities, and deliver sustainable long-term value to our unitholders. I will conclude the presentation here. Happy to take any questions. Easy.

Choon Siang Tan: We have clear income drivers that will continue to support growth, including progressive income contribution from Gallileo, the addition of Paragon following its completion on 1 July, as well as the continued flow-through of positive rental reversions achieved across our portfolio. At the same time, we remain disciplined in managing our cost and capital. Energy rates for our Singapore portfolio have been hedged through to mid-2027, providing greater certainty over key operating costs. Supported by a strong balance sheet, a diversified portfolio of high-quality assets, we are well-positioned to navigate market uncertainties, capture growth opportunities, and deliver sustainable long-term value to our unitholders. I will conclude the presentation here. Happy to take any questions. Easy.

Speaker #4: At the same time, we remain disciplined in managing our costs and capital. Energy rates for our Singapore portfolio have been hedged through to mid-2027, providing greater certainty over key operating costs.

Speaker #4: Supported by a strong balance sheet and a diversified portfolio of high-quality assets, we are well positioned to navigate market uncertainties, capture growth opportunities, and deliver sustainable, long-term value to our unitholders.

Speaker #4: I'll conclude the presentation here. Happy to take any questions. Well, easy.

Speaker #2: Hold your horses. May I invite the rest of the management team to the front? Okay, so now we have come to the most anticipated part of the briefing: the Q&A segment.

Allison Chen: Hold your horses. May I invite the rest of the management team onto the front? Okay, so now we have come to the most anticipated part of the briefing, the Q&A segment. Before I start, I would like to introduce the management team. So on Choon Siang's right, we have our CFO, Wong Mei Lian. On Choon Siang's left, we have Head of Investment, Jacqueline Lee. To her left, we have Head of Portfolio Management, Lee Yi Zhuan. Okay, a bit of housekeeping before we start. We will take questions one person at a time. If you have more than and we will ask that you only ask two questions per round. If you have further questions, we will come back to you. In keeping with tradition, we will have Mervyn Song with the first question. The floor is yours.

Allison Chen: Hold your horses. May I invite the rest of the management team onto the front? Okay, so now we have come to the most anticipated part of the briefing, the Q&A segment. Before I start, I would like to introduce the management team. So on Choon Siang's right, we have our CFO, Wong Mei Lian. On Choon Siang's left, we have Head of Investment, Jacqueline Lee. To her left, we have Head of Portfolio Management, Lee Yi Zhuan. Okay, a bit of housekeeping before we start. We will take questions one person at a time. If you have more than and we will ask that you only ask two questions per round. If you have further questions, we will come back to you. In keeping with tradition, we will have Mervyn Song with the first question. The floor is yours.

Speaker #2: Before I start, I would like to introduce the management team. So, on Chunxiang's right, we have our CFO, Wong Meilin. And on Chunxiang's left, we have the Head of Investment, Jacqueline Lee.

Speaker #2: And to her left, we have Head of Portfolio Management, Lee Yijun. Okay, a bit of housekeeping before we start. We will take questions one at a time.

Speaker #2: If you have more than that, we'll ask that you only ask two questions per round. If you have further questions, we'll come back to you.

Speaker #2: And okay. And in keeping with tradition, we will have Moving Gasoline with the first question. The floor is yours.

Speaker #3: Yeah, moving from JP Morgan. Yeah, congrats Chunxiang on excellent results. Keep up performing expectations. So, my first question—obviously, we have seen very strong results over the last few years.

Mervin Song: Yeah. Mervyn from JP Morgan. Congrats, Choon Siang, on excellent set of results. Keep outperforming expectations.

Mervin Song: Yeah. Mervin from JPMorgan. Congrats, Choon Siang, on excellent set of results. Keep outperforming expectations.

Tan Choon Siang: Thank you very much.

Choon Siang Tan: Thank you very much.

Mervin Song: My first question, obviously, you have very strong results over the last few years. Is this the best we've seen? Will things start to moderate from here?

Mervin Song: My first question, obviously, you have very strong results over the last few years. Is this the best we've seen? Will things start to moderate from here?

Speaker #3: Is this the best we've seen? Will things start to moderate from here? Second question, any updates on the Allianz lease at Capital Sky? And in terms of tenant sales for suburban malls, it seems to have slowed down a little bit in the second quarter relative to the first quarter.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Second question, any updates on Allianz lease at CapitaSky? In terms of tenant sales for suburban, seems to have slowed down a little bit in Q2 relative to Q1. Thanks for tapping there.

Mervin Song: Second question, any updates on Allianz lease at CapitaSky? In terms of tenant sales for suburban, seems to have slowed down a little bit in Q2 relative to Q1. Thanks for tapping there.

Speaker #3: Thanks. What's happening there?

Speaker #4: Okay, I'll take the easy first question, and then each one can take the hard questions. Okay. In terms of performance to date, I think, based on pure numbers, it is our best first half, I think, ever.

Tan Choon Siang: Okay. I'll take the easy first question, and then Ichran can take the hard questions. Okay. In terms of performance to date, I think based on pure numbers, it is our best H1, I think, ever. Let's not celebrate too early. We are waiting to see, hoping that the performance continues for the rest of the year. Yes, we have highlighted, we do have some growth drivers. I think H1 results have not captured. To answer your question on whether this is the peak, we don't think so, because this set of results have not captured some of the growth drivers that we have embedded as part of our initiatives, some of the acquisitions that we have done in the past as well. I think I've alluded to that in the last slide as well.

Choon Siang Tan: Okay. I'll take the easy first question, and then Yi Zhuan can take the hard questions. Okay. In terms of performance to date, I think based on pure numbers, it is our best H1, I think, ever. Let's not celebrate too early. We are waiting to see, hoping that the performance continues for the rest of the year. Yes, we have highlighted, we do have some growth drivers. I think H1 results have not captured. To answer your question on whether this is the peak, we don't think so, because this set of results have not captured some of the growth drivers that we have embedded as part of our initiatives, some of the acquisitions that we have done in the past as well. I think I've alluded to that in the last slide as well.

Speaker #4: But let's not celebrate too early. We are waiting to see, hoping that the performance continues for the rest of the year. But yes, we have highlighted that we do have some growth drivers.

Speaker #4: I think first half results have not captured I mean, to answer your question on whether this is the peak, we don't think so because we we this set of results have not captured some of the growth drivers that we have embedded as part of our initiatives that we have some of the acquisitions that we have done in the past as well.

Speaker #4: And I think I alluded to that in the last slide as well. I mean, Paragon has not been accounted for in the first half numbers.

Tan Choon Siang: Paragon has not been accounted in the H1 numbers, and that should be quite a strong driver, given the 1.7% accretion that we have articulated when we did the acquisition. That should bode well for the H2 results. Secondly, Gallileo. I think that has contributed to some of the performance in H1, and it will continue to drive the performance for H2 because that was not fully accounted for in the numbers last year, as we have fully handed over to the tenant pretty much early this year only. There was a little bit of income last year, but not that much. Thirdly, I think organically we have rental reversions are still positive. That will continue to help drive the growth for the organic portfolio. Fourthly, Tampines Mall. There was some downtime in the past few months because of the AEI.

Choon Siang Tan: Paragon has not been accounted in the H1 numbers, and that should be quite a strong driver, given the 1.7% accretion that we have articulated when we did the acquisition. That should bode well for the H2 results. Secondly, Gallileo. I think that has contributed to some of the performance in H1, and it will continue to drive the performance for H2 because that was not fully accounted for in the numbers last year, as we have fully handed over to the tenant pretty much early this year only. There was a little bit of income last year, but not that much. Thirdly, I think organically we have rental reversions are still positive. That will continue to help drive the growth for the organic portfolio. Fourthly, Tampines Mall. There was some downtime in the past few months because of the AEI.

Speaker #4: And that should be quite a strong driver, given the 1.7% accretion that we have articulated when we did the acquisition. So that should bode well for the second half results.

Speaker #4: Secondly, Galileo, I think that has contributed to some of the performance in the first half, and it will continue to drive the performance for the second half because that was not fully accounted for in the numbers last year, as we have fully handed over to the tenant pretty much early this year only.

Speaker #4: There was a little bit of income last year, but not that much. Third, or thirdly, I think organically we have rental reversions that are still positive.

Speaker #4: That will continue to help drive the growth for the organic portfolio. Fourthly, there were some downtimes in the past few months because of the AEI.

Speaker #4: Lot One as well—those will progressively start to contribute in the second half of this year for companies more. And I think for Lot One, we should expect the contribution from early next year.

Tan Choon Siang: Lot One as well. Those will progressively start to contribute in H2 of this year for Tampines Mall. For Lot One, we should expect the contribution from early next year. There are still quite a few drivers that we have put in place that will continue to drive the performance of the REIT going forward. We have not gone into interest expenses. Alien and the team has done a very good job managing our interest rate exposure. We are now below 3% on average, and our marginal rate is still below that. If you look at our borrowing rates today, we are definitely borrowing below 2.9%. Although we are getting closer to our marginal rate, the rate of decrease in interest expense will definitely come down. But we still expect it to inch lower going forward.

Choon Siang Tan: Lot One as well. Those will progressively start to contribute in H2 of this year for Tampines Mall. For Lot One, we should expect the contribution from early next year. There are still quite a few drivers that we have put in place that will continue to drive the performance of the REIT going forward. We have not gone into interest expenses. Allianz and the team has done a very good job managing our interest rate exposure. We are now below 3% on average, and our marginal rate is still below that. If you look at our borrowing rates today, we are definitely borrowing below 2.9%. Although we are getting closer to our marginal rate, the rate of decrease in interest expense will definitely come down. But we still expect it to inch lower going forward.

Speaker #4: So, there are still quite a few drivers that we have put in place that will continue to drive the performance of the REIT going forward.

Speaker #4: And we have not gone into interest expenses. I think Meilin and the team have done a very good job managing our interest rate exposure.

Speaker #4: We are now below 3% on average, and our marginal rate is still below that. If you look at our borrowing rates today, we're definitely borrowing below 2.9%.

Speaker #4: So although we are getting closer to our marginal rate, the rate of decrease in interest expense will definitely come down. But we still expect it to inch lower going forward.

Speaker #4: Oh yeah, there's a second question.

Tan Choon Siang: Oh, yeah, there is a second question.

Choon Siang Tan: Oh, yeah, there is a second question.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Oh, second question.

Yi Zhuan Lee: Oh, second question.

Speaker #3: Oh, thank you.

Tan Choon Siang: Allianz and-

Choon Siang Tan: Allianz and—

Speaker #4: Allianz and. Sale sales.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Yeah. For Allianz

Yi Zhuan Lee: Yeah. For Allianz

Tan Choon Siang: sales.

Choon Siang Tan: Sales.

Speaker #3: Yeah, for Capital Sky, right? For Allianz, we are already in talks with some tenants or prospective tenants. So it includes some tenants who are looking at expansion space within the building.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Yeah. For CapitaSky, for Allianz, we are already in talks with some tenants, some prospective tenants. It includes some tenants who are looking at expansion space within the building. Hopefully we have some good news to share in due time. As for sales, for Q2 sales is true, it is a bit slow. The travel tourist arrivals has been softened. We also see consumer sentiment has also softened a little bit, and it kind of translates in the number for Q2. But generally, overall, it is still relatively resilient. Is this the peak or moderating? I would say that probably you will see a bit of moderation in the near term, but it should pan out well in a full year perspective.

Yi Zhuan Lee: Yeah. For CapitaSky, for Allianz, we are already in talks with some tenants, some prospective tenants. It includes some tenants who are looking at expansion space within the building. Hopefully we have some good news to share in due time. As for sales, for Q2 sales is true, it is a bit slow. The travel tourist arrivals has been softened. We also see consumer sentiment has also softened a little bit, and it kind of translates in the number for Q2. But generally, overall, it is still relatively resilient. Is this the peak or moderating? I would say that probably you will see a bit of moderation in the near term, but it should pan out well in a full year perspective.

Speaker #3: So hopefully we have some good news to share in due time. And as for sales for second quarter, it's true, it's a bit slow.

Speaker #3: I mean, travel and tourist arrivals have softened. We also see, you know, consumer sentiment has also softened a little bit, and it kind of translates in the numbers for the second quarter.

Speaker #3: But generally, overall, it's still relatively resilient. So is this the peak, or are we moderating? I will say that we will probably see a bit of moderation in the near term, but it should pan out okay from a few years' perspective.

Speaker #2: Thanks, Chunxiang Yijun. Do we have the next question? Yeah. Rachel, please go ahead.

Allison Chen: Thanks, Chun Sang, Ichran. Do we have the next question? Rachel, please go ahead.

Allison Chen: Thanks, Choon Siang, Yi Zhuan. Do we have the next question? Rachel, please go ahead.

Speaker #5: Hi, good morning Chunxiang and team. Congrats on a very strong set of results. So, my first question is on Paragon and more on AEI. What are your thoughts about it?

Rachel: Hi, good morning, Chun Sang and team. Congrats on a very strong result. My first question is on Paragon Mall AEI. What are your thoughts about it? You have held it for a 1-plus month already. If you can give us some details. Second question is on your divestment, apart from divestments of assets. Any chance on divesting your overseas assets or still very much Singapore non-core assets?

Rachel Tan: Hi, good morning, Chun Siang and team. Congrats on a very strong result. My first question is on Paragon Mall AEI. What are your thoughts about it? You have held it for a 1-plus month already. If you can give us some details. Second question is on your divestment, apart from divestments of assets. Any chance on divesting your overseas assets or still very much Singapore non-core assets?

Speaker #5: You have held it for over a month already. If you can, please give us some details. Second question is on your divestments—your thoughts on divestment of assets.

Speaker #5: Any chance of divesting your overseas assets, or are you still very much focused on Singapore non-core assets?

Speaker #4: Okay, so I think for Paragon, I don't think we have very much more to—I think we put up a statement earlier on Metro, when Metro announced that they would stop their large format stores in both Paragon as well as Causeway Point.

Tan Choon Siang: Okay. I think for Paragon, I don't think we have very much more to. I think we put up a statement earlier on the Metro when Metro announced that they will stop their large format stores in both Paragon as well as Causeway Point. I think the position remains the same, so we are reviewing what we want to do with the space as discussions are still ongoing. I don't think we have a definite plan to announce yet. There are a few things that we are looking at. I think we have also mentioned in the statement, some low-hanging fruits like connectivity to the neighboring buildings to improve the footfall. I think that we are also looking at sprucing out some of the basic amenities. This is a case in point.

Choon Siang Tan: Okay. I think for Paragon, I don't think we have very much more to. I think we put up a statement earlier on the Metro when Metro announced that they will stop their large format stores in both Paragon as well as Causeway Point. I think the position remains the same, so we are reviewing what we want to do with the space as discussions are still ongoing. I don't think we have a definite plan to announce yet. There are a few things that we are looking at. I think we have also mentioned in the statement, some low-hanging fruits like connectivity to the neighboring buildings to improve the footfall. I think that we are also looking at sprucing out some of the basic amenities. This is a case in point.

Speaker #4: I think the position remains the same, so we are reviewing what we want to do with the space as discussions are still ongoing. I don't think we have a definite plan to announce yet.

Speaker #4: But there are a few things that we are looking at. I think we have also mentioned in the statement some low-hanging fruits like connectivity to the neighboring buildings, to improve the footfall.

Speaker #4: I think that we are also looking at pushing out some of the basic amenities. This is a case in point. Actually, there are some ongoing areas that the previous management team has already addressed, such as the Paragon Club that was recently completed.

Tan Choon Siang: Actually, there are some ongoing AEI that the previous management team has already done, for example, this Paragon Club that was recently completed. Of course, I think on top of everyone's mind is what we're going to do with the Metro space. Unfortunately, I don't think we want to get into a discussion on that as discussions are still ongoing with both Metro and other potential tenants. There will definitely be some reconfiguration of the existing space. But in what form and in what format, I think give us some more time before we are ready to make a full announcement on the AEI plan on that space. What was the second question? Oh, divestment. I think divestment remains quite similar to what we have said before. I think we want to focus on divestment of Germany.

Choon Siang Tan: Actually, there are some ongoing AEI that the previous management team has already done, for example, this Paragon Club that was recently completed. Of course, I think on top of everyone's mind is what we're going to do with the Metro space. Unfortunately, I don't think we want to get into a discussion on that as discussions are still ongoing with both Metro and other potential tenants. There will definitely be some reconfiguration of the existing space. But in what form and in what format, I think give us some more time before we are ready to make a full announcement on the AEI plan on that space. What was the second question? Oh, divestment. I think divestment remains quite similar to what we have said before. I think we want to focus on divestment of Germany.

Speaker #4: But of course, I think on top of everyone's mind is what we're going to do with the Metro space. Unfortunately, I don't think we want to get into a discussion on that, as discussions are still ongoing with both Metro and other potential tenants.

Speaker #4: So there will definitely be some reconfiguration of the existing space, but in what form and in what format? I think give us some more time before we are ready to make a full announcement on the AEI plan for that space.

Speaker #4: What was the second question? Oh, divestment. I think divestment remains quite similar to what we have said before. I think we want to focus on the divestment of Germany.

Speaker #4: Unfortunately, I think the environment is not so easy with the higher inflationary and interest rate environment in the Eurozone. So I think that becomes a bit more challenging.

Tan Choon Siang: Unfortunately, I think the environment is not so easy with the higher inflationary and interest rate environment in the Eurozone. I think that becomes a bit more challenging. We are definitely looking at starting a process over there. We will see whether that leads us to anything. There's always nothing to comment on or announce until there's something to.

Choon Siang Tan: Unfortunately, I think the environment is not so easy with the higher inflationary and interest rate environment in the Eurozone. I think that becomes a bit more challenging. We are definitely looking at starting a process over there. We will see whether that leads us to anything. There's always nothing to comment on or announce until there's something to.

Speaker #4: But definitely, we are definitely looking at starting a process over there, so we will see whether that leads us to anything.

Speaker #4: But it's always nothing to comment or announce until there's something to.

Speaker #2: Okay. Thank you.

Allison Chen: Thank you. Do we have the next question?

Allison Chen: Thank you. Do we have the next question?

Speaker #4: That being said, I think—that’s not, sorry—just to add on, I think on the divestment front, actually we have done quite a bit of divestment in the last three or four years, although the headline has been around the acquisition of Paragon.

Tan Choon Siang: But having said that, I think let's not Sorry, just add on. I think on the divestment, actually, we have done quite a bit of divestment in the last 3 or 4 years. Although the headline has been around the acquisition of Paragon. Actually, let's not forget that we divested Asia Square Tower 2, which is still in progress of happening. We divested Bukit Panjang Plaza at a very attractive premium to valuation just February this year. Last year, we divested a service apartment tied to the CapitaSpring, which allowed us to acquire 55%. A lot of things we have done that actually dovetail quite nicely with the whole acquisition story that we have been writing over the last 24 months. The year before that, of course, we also divested 21 Collyer Quay.

Choon Siang Tan: But having said that, I think let's not Sorry, just add on. I think on the divestment, actually, we have done quite a bit of divestment in the last 3 or 4 years. Although the headline has been around the acquisition of Paragon. Actually, let's not forget that we divested Asia Square Tower 2, which is still in progress of happening. We divested Bukit Panjang Plaza at a very attractive premium to valuation just February this year. Last year, we divested a service apartment tied to the CapitaSpring, which allowed us to acquire 55%. A lot of things we have done that actually dovetail quite nicely with the whole acquisition story that we have been writing over the last 24 months. The year before that, of course, we also divested 21 Collyer Quay.

Speaker #4: Actually, let's not forget that we divested Asia Square Tower too, which is still in the process of happening. We divested Bukit Panjang Plaza at a very attractive premium to valuation just this February.

Speaker #4: Last year, we divested a serviced apartment tied to the Capital Spring, which allowed us to acquire the 55%, so a lot of things we have done actually tie in quite nicely with the whole acquisition story that we have been writing over the last 24 months.

Speaker #4: And then the year before that, of course, we also divested 21 Collyer Quay. So you can see that actually, we have done a very systematic portfolio reconstitution, getting out of assets at a low 3 to 3 and mid 3% yield and acquiring assets at a much higher yield.

Tan Choon Siang: So you can see that actually we have done a very systematic portfolio reconstitution, getting out of assets at a low 3% to mid 3% yield and acquiring assets at a much higher yield. So I think all of that has together helped to drive our DPU growth in a cumulative manner over the last few years, quite significantly. Sorry. Just go on.

Choon Siang Tan: So you can see that actually we have done a very systematic portfolio reconstitution, getting out of assets at a low 3% to mid 3% yield and acquiring assets at a much higher yield. So I think all of that has together helped to drive our DPU growth in a cumulative manner over the last few years, quite significantly. Sorry. Just go on.

Speaker #4: So, I think all of that together has helped to drive our DPU growth in a cumulative manner over the last few years, quite significantly. Sorry.

Speaker #4: Just go on.

Speaker #2: You can. Yeah. Go ahead.

Allison Chen: You can, yeah, go ahead.

Allison Chen: You can, yeah, go ahead.

Yu Keng: Yeah. Hi, Chun Siang. Congrats on the good results. Just want to check your views on Wheelock putting up some of the sale of assets in Orchard Road. Is there any synergies that you see together with your portfolio, and would this have also had some impact on your valuation on your Orchard assets, by the end of the year? My second question is on the Australia portfolio. Can you give us some updates on the office market there? Thanks.

[Analyst 1]: Yeah. Hi, Chun Siang. Congrats on the good results. Just want to check your views on Wheelock putting up some of the sale of assets in Orchard Road. Is there any synergies that you see together with your portfolio, and would this have also had some impact on your valuation on your Orchard assets, by the end of the year? My second question is on the Australia portfolio. Can you give us some updates on the office market there? Thanks.

Speaker #4: Yeah. Hi, Chunxiang. Congrats on the good results. Just want to check your views on WeLock, putting up some of the sale of assets in Orchard Road.

Speaker #4: Are there any synergies that you see together with your portfolio, and would this also have some impact on your valuation of your Orchard assets, you know, by the end of the year?

Speaker #4: And then, second question is on the Australia portfolio. Can you give us some updates on the office market there? What's happening there?

Speaker #4: Thanks. Okay, I'll take the WeLock question, and then maybe each one can take the Australia question. So I think on WeLock—are there any synergies?

Tan Choon Siang: Okay. I will take the Wheelock question, and then maybe Shun can take the Australia. I think on Wheelock, are there any synergies? You mean if we had bought it, would there have been synergies? Because we did not buy it, so there is no synergy between us and Hongkong Land.

Choon Siang Tan: Okay. I will take the Wheelock question, and then maybe Shun can take the Australia. I think on Wheelock, are there any synergies? You mean if we had bought it, would there have been synergies? Because we did not buy it, so there is no synergy between us and Hongkong Land.

Speaker #4: You mean, if we had bought it, would there have been synergies? Because we didn't buy it, there is no synergy between us and our Hong Kong land.

Speaker #3: I think they also have another one that's up for sale as well—potentially.

Yu Keng: I think they also have another one that is up for sale also, potentially, along Orchard Road.

[Analyst 1]: I think they also have another one that is up for sale also, potentially, along Orchard Road.

Speaker #4: A lot of Scotts Square. Oh, Scotts Square is not connected to ION, though. But do you know that you— that they're asking you for the asset?

Tan Choon Siang: You mean Scotts Square. Scotts Square is not connected to ION, though. Do you know the asking yield for the asset? I think it is sub 2%. Although, I think they have received some offers, but I think the yield will be sub 2% on an as-is basis. But it is freehold, so I think it attracts a different set of buyers for their asset that potentially are buyers that are looking more long-term hold. Okay. The question is whether we are looking at the asset, probably not because of the yield, right? I do not think any of our investors would like us to look at something like that. Wheelock, I think Wheelock has always been there, competing with ION in a way. Maybe competing is not the right word. It does help if Wheelock does well. It does not mean that ION will not do well anyway.

Choon Siang Tan: You mean Scotts Square. Scotts Square is not connected to ION, though. Do you know the asking yield for the asset? I think it is sub 2%. Although, I think they have received some offers, but I think the yield will be sub 2% on an as-is basis. But it is freehold, so I think it attracts a different set of buyers for their asset that potentially are buyers that are looking more long-term hold. Okay. The question is whether we are looking at the asset, probably not because of the yield, right? I do not think any of our investors would like us to look at something like that. Wheelock, I think Wheelock has always been there, competing with ION in a way. Maybe competing is not the right word. It does help if Wheelock does well. It does not mean that ION will not do well anyway.

Speaker #4: It's I think it's it's sub 2%. Yeah. Although there are some I think they have received some offers, but I think the you will be sub 2%.

Speaker #4: On an asset basis, yeah. But it's freehold, so I think it attracts a different set of buyers for the asset—potentially buyers who are looking for a more long-term hold.

Speaker #4: Okay, so the question is whether we're looking at the asset—probably not because of the yield, right? I don't think any of our investors would like us to look at something like that.

Speaker #4: WeLock, yeah. I think WeLock has always been there, competing with ION in a way—or maybe, maybe competing is not the right word.

Speaker #4: Actually, there's also a—I mean, it does help if WeLock does well. It doesn't mean that ION will not do well anyway. Anyway, WeLock has always been there.

Tan Choon Siang: Wheelock has always been there, sitting side by side. Just because the ownership changed does not necessarily change the dynamics of the two malls, unless there is a major redevelopment that happens. But I think we are very far from that scenario. Not sure if I answered your question on that. There is not much more to add. I do not know what the buyer is going to do with the asset. I think on an as-is basis, it will not change the dynamics of that whole area, I think, because they have coexisted side by side for a long time already. If anything, I think ION probably adds to the value of Wheelock more than the other way around. Okay. I do not know. Did that answer your question? Thank you.

Choon Siang Tan: Wheelock has always been there, sitting side by side. Just because the ownership changed does not necessarily change the dynamics of the two malls, unless there is a major redevelopment that happens. But I think we are very far from that scenario. Not sure if I answered your question on that. There is not much more to add. I do not know what the buyer is going to do with the asset. I think on an as-is basis, it will not change the dynamics of that whole area, I think, because they have coexisted side by side for a long time already. If anything, I think ION probably adds to the value of Wheelock more than the other way around. Okay. I do not know. Did that answer your question? Thank you.

Speaker #4: Sitting side by side, just because the ownership change doesn't necessarily change the dynamics of the two malls, unless there's a major redevelopment that happens.

Speaker #4: But I think we are very far from that scenario. So, yeah, not sure if I answered your question on that. There's not much more to add.

Speaker #4: I don't know what we are. I don't know what the buyer is going to do with the asset. I think, on the asset's basis, it won't change the dynamics of that whole area, I think.

Speaker #4: Because they have coexisted side by side for a long time already. If anything, I think ION probably adds to the value of WeLock more than the other way around.

Speaker #4: Okay. I don't know. Does that answer your question? Yeah. Thank you.

Lee Yi Zhuan: As for Australia, unfortunately, there is not much to share different from the last quarter in terms of Australian market. Not much has shifted, actually. If we look at the CBD office market, it is generally still very centered around the core CBD, very premium asset. So those definitely have seen improvements in rents. We are also still seeing signs that the incentive level for those has come off a little bit to the low 30s, 30%. Unfortunately, for the rest of the fringe CBD, your North Sydney, your Midtown, your Southern. Actually, Southern is actually not doing that well. Midtown is a little bit stabilizing, benefiting a little bit of flow-through from your core CBD.

Yi Zhuan Lee: As for Australia, unfortunately, there is not much to share different from the last quarter in terms of Australian market. Not much has shifted, actually. If we look at the CBD office market, it is generally still very centered around the core CBD, very premium asset. So those definitely have seen improvements in rents. We are also still seeing signs that the incentive level for those has come off a little bit to the low 30s, 30%. Unfortunately, for the rest of the fringe CBD, your North Sydney, your Midtown, your Southern. Actually, Southern is actually not doing that well. Midtown is a little bit stabilizing, benefiting a little bit of flow-through from your core CBD.

Speaker #1: As for Australia, unfortunately there's not much to share that's different from the last quarter in terms of the Australian market. Not much has shifted, actually.

Speaker #1: If we look at the CBD office market, it's generally still very centered around the core CBD, very premium assets. So those definitely have seen improvements in rents, and we are also seeing signs that the incentive level for those has come off a little bit.

Speaker #1: To the low 30s—30%. But unfortunately, for the rest of the fringe CBD, you're not Sydney, you're Midtown, you're Southern. Actually, Southern is not doing that well.

Speaker #1: Midtown is a little bit stabilizing. Benefiting a little bit of flow through from their core CBD. North Sydney is still having a vacancy kind of issue.

Lee Yi Zhuan: North Sydney is still having a vacancy kind of issue, because with Bugis Cross not fully absorbed at this point, there is a little bit of pressure in terms of vacancy, so rent has been relatively stagnating. Sorry. Yeah, stagnating. For our own portfolio, good thing is that the team has been doing pretty well defending the occupancy of 101 Miller as well as 66 Goulburn Street. We have also seen a little bit of improvement in 100 Arthur Street occupancy-wise. So we are working hard to try to stabilize the occupancy while we wait for the market to turn. Yeah.

Yi Zhuan Lee: North Sydney is still having a vacancy kind of issue, because with Bugis Cross not fully absorbed at this point, there is a little bit of pressure in terms of vacancy, so rent has been relatively stagnating. Sorry. Yeah, stagnating. For our own portfolio, good thing is that the team has been doing pretty well defending the occupancy of 101 Miller as well as 66 Goulburn Street. We have also seen a little bit of improvement in 100 Arthur Street occupancy-wise. So we are working hard to try to stabilize the occupancy while we wait for the market to turn. Yeah.

Speaker #1: Because it has not been fully absorbed at this point, there's a little bit of pressure in terms of vacancy, so rents have been relatively stagnating.

Speaker #1: Sorry—yeah. Stagnating. And so for our own portfolio, the good thing is that the team has been doing pretty well defending the occupancy of 101 Miller as well as 66 G.

Speaker #1: We have also seen a little bit of improvement in 100 Arthur, occupancy-wise. So we are working hard to try to stabilize the occupancy while we wait for the market to turn.

Speaker #1: Yeah.

Allison Chen: Can we have the next question from Vijay? Then we will go on to Jared then. Then Joy, we will come to you.

Allison Chen: Can we have the next question from Vijay? Then we will go on to Geraldine then. Then Joy, we will come to you.

Speaker #2: Can we have the next question from VJ? Then we'll go on to Geraldine. Joy, we'll come to you after that.

Speaker #3: Hi. Morning, Chunxiang and team. Congrats on a good set of results. I have three questions. Maybe firstly on Germany: What's the cash occupancy of Galileo at this point in time?

Vijay: Hi. Morning, Chun Siang and team. Congrats on a good set of results. I have three questions. Maybe firstly, on Germany, what is the cash occupancy of Gallileo at this point of time, and what would it go to in the H2? Earlier, there was a discussion on putting these assets on divestments. German portfolio, has there been any updates on this? Secondly, in terms of Singapore office portfolio, I noticed there has been some large tenant movements in the Tanjong Pagar area, Allianz, Deloitte. What is driving this? Is this purely rents, or is there some other bigger factors why this tenant is moving to newer buildings in this market? Third, finance cost. I think team has done really well. What is the guidance? Should we expect it to go up? Thanks.

Vijay Natarajan: Hi. Morning, Chun Siang and team. Congrats on a good set of results. I have three questions. Maybe firstly, on Germany, what is the cash occupancy of Gallileo at this point of time, and what would it go to in the H2? Earlier, there was a discussion on putting these assets on divestments. German portfolio, has there been any updates on this? Secondly, in terms of Singapore office portfolio, I noticed there has been some large tenant movements in the Tanjong Pagar area, Allianz, Deloitte. What is driving this? Is this purely rents, or is there some other bigger factors why this tenant is moving to newer buildings in this market? Third, finance cost. I think team has done really well. What is the guidance? Should we expect it to go up? Thanks.

Speaker #3: And what would it go to in the second half? Earlier, there was a discussion on putting these assets on divestments. Regarding the German portfolio, have there been any updates on this?

Speaker #3: Secondly, in terms of the Singapore office portfolio, I noticed there have been some large tenant movements in the Tanjong Pagar area—Allianz, Deloitte, etc. I mean, what's driving this?

Speaker #3: Is this purely rents, or are there some other bigger factors why this tenant's moving to newer buildings in this market? Third, finance cost. I think the team has done really well.

Speaker #3: What's the guidance? Should we expect it to go up? Thanks.

Speaker #4: Wow, that's a lot to digest there. I think the first question is—what's the first question? On Germany, right? Divestment of Germany. So I think the cash occupancy of Galileo actually is almost 100%.

Tan Choon Siang: Wow. It is a lot to digest there. I think for the first question on, what is the first question? On Germany, right? Divestment of Germany. I think the cash occupancy of Gallileo actually is almost 100%, 97%, 98% maybe. Yeah.

Choon Siang Tan: Wow. It is a lot to digest there. I think for the first question on, what is the first question? On Germany, right? Divestment of Germany. I think the cash occupancy of Gallileo actually is almost 100%, 97%, 98% maybe. Yeah.

Speaker #4: What? 97, 98% maybe? Yeah. I mean, it's fully handled. Short of a small amount of space, it's pretty much fully handed over to the end tenants already.

Vijay: Okay.

Vijay Natarajan: Okay.

Tan Choon Siang: It is fully handed. Short of a small amount of space, it is pretty much fully handed over to the end tenants already. That is the first part. Divestment, as I mentioned earlier, we have started a process, but more on the MAC, which is the Main Airport Center, because we have not fully handed over Gallileo and we have only just completed it. We want to make sure that we see through that handover. We are in no hurry. In any case, that is almost 100% occupied, and we are earning good income from that asset. No hurry to divest. We want to focus on, if you want to look at testing the market, we will probably look at the airport asset first. The question on Tanjong Pagar, right? I think on the tenants moving on, I think it is very circumstantial and opportunistic.

Choon Siang Tan: It is fully handed. Short of a small amount of space, it is pretty much fully handed over to the end tenants already. That is the first part. Divestment, as I mentioned earlier, we have started a process, but more on the MAC, which is the Main Airport Center, because we have not fully handed over Gallileo and we have only just completed it. We want to make sure that we see through that handover. We are in no hurry. In any case, that is almost 100% occupied, and we are earning good income from that asset. No hurry to divest. We want to focus on, if you want to look at testing the market, we will probably look at the airport asset first. The question on Tanjong Pagar, right? I think on the tenants moving on, I think it is very circumstantial and opportunistic.

Speaker #4: So that's the first part. Divestment, as I mentioned earlier, we have started a process. But more on the MAC, which is the main airport.

Speaker #4: Because we have not fully handled fully handled over Galileo. So we and we have only just completed it. So we want to make sure that we see through that handover.

Speaker #4: So we are not in any hurry. In any case, that's almost 100% occupied, and we're earning good income from that asset. So, no hurry to divest.

Speaker #4: So we want to focus on, if we want to look at testing the market, we'll probably look at the airport asset first.

Speaker #4: In terms of—there's a third question on Tanjong Pagar, right? I think on the tenants moving out. I think it's very circumstantial and opportunistic. I think maybe each one of you can elaborate on some of those.

Tan Choon Siang: I think maybe, Yi-Chuan, you can elaborate on some of those. I think specifically asking about Allianz and Deloitte, right?

Choon Siang Tan: I think maybe, Yi Zhuan, you can elaborate on some of those. I think specifically asking about Allianz and Deloitte, right?

Speaker #4: I think we're specifically asking about Allianz and Deloitte, right?

Speaker #1: Yeah. I think for the Allianz case, it's pretty much a case where, firstly, they, you know, some of the buildings are new to the market, right?

Lee Yi Zhuan: Yeah. I think for Allianz case, it is pretty much a case where firstly, some of the buildings that is new to the market, right, and there is a lot of they are starting to build out their occupancy. They can offer very competitive rents. Definitely at times, certain tenants will actually fit the kind of profile where they will move for rents as one of the consideration. At the same time, getting a better quality asset in a way, right? But location probably not so sensitive. In Deloitte's case, probably similar, where they are actually moving to something where the direction of how they want their office and the location, and it is one of the driving factors. Then the next question is why some of these tenants cannot come in to us also when some of these bigger sites.

Yi Zhuan Lee: Yeah. I think for Allianz case, it is pretty much a case where firstly, some of the buildings that is new to the market, right, and there is a lot of they are starting to build out their occupancy. They can offer very competitive rents. Definitely at times, certain tenants will actually fit the kind of profile where they will move for rents as one of the consideration. At the same time, getting a better quality asset in a way, right? But location probably not so sensitive. In Deloitte's case, probably similar, where they are actually moving to something where the direction of how they want their office and the location, and it is one of the driving factors. Then the next question is why some of these tenants cannot come in to us also when some of these bigger sites.

Speaker #1: And there's a lot of starting to build out the occupancy. They can offer very competitive rents, so definitely at times, certain tenants will actually fit the kind of profile where they will move for rents.

Speaker #1: That's one of the considerations. At the same time, getting a better LOC quality asset, in a way, right? But location is probably not so sensitive.

Speaker #1: So, in Deloitte's case, it's probably similar, where they are actually moving to something where the direction of how they want their office and the location is one of the driving factors.

Speaker #1: So then the next question is, why can't some of these tenants also come in to us, especially some of these bigger-sized ones? We always have this problem, where at this point our occupancy is relatively healthy. Actually, we do have a few tenants in the market out there looking at 100,000 square feet, for example.

Lee Yi Zhuan: We always have this problem where at this point our occupancy is relatively healthy. So actually, we do have a few tenants in the market out there looking at 100,000 square feet, for example, and those are not what we can accommodate. There is always some of these musical chairs. Right now, if you look at which office buildings now can accommodate big size, Shaw Tower and Keppel South Central. Sometimes it is not just fully because of the asset or the location, it is really down to whether the availability of space. What is driving some of these movements, I think in market, everybody is very aware that actually if you look at new supply in the next 3 to 4 years, it is actually quite limited in CBD. Now a lot of corporate real estate, they are struggling with this dilemma.

Yi Zhuan Lee: We always have this problem where at this point our occupancy is relatively healthy. So actually, we do have a few tenants in the market out there looking at 100,000 square feet, for example, and those are not what we can accommodate. There is always some of these musical chairs. Right now, if you look at which office buildings now can accommodate big size, Shaw Tower and Keppel South Central. Sometimes it is not just fully because of the asset or the location, it is really down to whether the availability of space. What is driving some of these movements, I think in market, everybody is very aware that actually if you look at new supply in the next 3 to 4 years, it is actually quite limited in CBD. Now a lot of corporate real estate, they are struggling with this dilemma.

Speaker #1: And those are not what we can accommodate. So there's always some of these musical chairs. So right now, if you look at which office buildings can accommodate big floor, big size, right?

Speaker #1: Shore Tower and Capital South Central. Sometimes it's not just fully because of the asset or the location, right? It's really down to whether there is availability of space.

Speaker #1: And so, what's driving some of these movements, right? I think, in the market, everybody is very aware that if we actually look at new supply in the next three to four years, it's quite limited in the CBD.

Speaker #1: So now, a lot of corporate real estate— they are struggling with this dilemma. On one hand, the cost of moving is very high.

Lee Yi Zhuan: On one hand, the cost of moving is very high. On the other hand, they are aware that if they need certain size, they need to make a call at this point. Even for landlords like us, we are already talking to tenants in 2027, 2028 from both, trying to get tenants to join us, is one. On the other hand, also to be defensive in intention. We are speaking to some of these tenants really early. A lot of decisions, they are also kind of forced to make early, because if they want to wait for another year, the space may not be available in the next year or so, especially if they are very particular about quality or location.

Yi Zhuan Lee: On one hand, the cost of moving is very high. On the other hand, they are aware that if they need certain size, they need to make a call at this point. Even for landlords like us, we are already talking to tenants in 2027, 2028 from both, trying to get tenants to join us, is one. On the other hand, also to be defensive in intention. We are speaking to some of these tenants really early. A lot of decisions, they are also kind of forced to make early, because if they want to wait for another year, the space may not be available in the next year or so, especially if they are very particular about quality or location.

Speaker #1: On the other hand, they are aware that if they need a certain size, they need to make a call at this point. And so even for landlords like us, right?

Speaker #1: We are already talking to tenants in 2027, 2028—from both trying to get tenants to join us, is one. But on the other hand, also to be defensive in retention, right?

Speaker #1: So we're speaking to some of these tenants really early, so a lot of decisions they are also kind of forced to make early because if they want to wait for another year, the space may not be available in the next year or so.

Speaker #1: Especially if they are very particular about the quality of the location. So some of the tenants have also been coming to us to try and see, you know, whether or not they can actually secure their expansion and renewal spaces with us.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Some of the tenants also have been coming to us to try and see whether or not they can actually secure their expansions, and renewal spaces within us. Some of these movements that we have seen, like just now we started off with one of the CapitaSky tenants, some of these movements are actually good for us because it actually allows some of the tenants within our own buildings to grow. CapitaSpring, I also have faced the issue where when a lot of tenants, when they sign at the peak of COVID or post-COVID, where everybody is very cost-conscious and everybody is taking work from home, they kind of under provide for the space. When they need expansion space now, they struggle to expand within the same building. Everybody is trying to consolidate at the same time their space requirements.

Yi Zhuan Lee: Some of the tenants also have been coming to us to try and see whether or not they can actually secure their expansions, and renewal spaces within us. Some of these movements that we have seen, like just now we started off with one of the CapitaSky tenants, some of these movements are actually good for us because it actually allows some of the tenants within our own buildings to grow. CapitaSpring, I also have faced the issue where when a lot of tenants, when they sign at the peak of COVID or post-COVID, where everybody is very cost-conscious and everybody is taking work from home, they kind of under provide for the space. When they need expansion space now, they struggle to expand within the same building. Everybody is trying to consolidate at the same time their space requirements.

Speaker #1: And so, some of these movements that we have seen, you know, like just now, we started off with one of the CapitaSky tenants, right?

Speaker #1: Some of these movements are actually good for us because it actually allows some of the tenants within our own buildings to grow. Like Capital Spring, I also face an issue where when a lot of tenants when they sign at the peak of COVID or post COVID, right?

Speaker #1: Where everybody is very cost conscious and everybody is taking a work-from-home approach, they kind of underprovide for the space, right? They really, you know—when they don't need expansion space now, they struggle to expand within the same building.

Speaker #1: But everybody is trying to consolidate at the same time with their space requirements. So every time we have new builds like this, we expect some of these pressures—some of this musical chairs—that will happen.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Every time when we have new builds like this, we have some of these pressures. We expect some of these musical chairs that will happen, and that is what we are seeing in the market now. Yeah. Thank you.

Yi Zhuan Lee: Every time when we have new builds like this, we have some of these pressures. We expect some of these musical chairs that will happen, and that is what we are seeing in the market now. Yeah. Thank you.

Speaker #1: And that's what we are seeing in the market now. Yeah.

Speaker #4: Thank you. I—we're not too concerned about it because I think, like what each one said, I think this is really timing, right?

Tan Choon Siang: We're not too concerned about it because I think, like what Lee Yi Zhuan said, I think this is really timing, right? I think every time there's a new building, like Shaw Tower, you expect a little bit of a musical chairs. But I think Shaw Tower is pretty much, I think 60% to 70% filled already. So I think the remaining spaces, they will not be able to cut rent to try to entice people, because they probably need to make the underwriting work. And I think that exit rents for some of these tenants, Allianz specifically, for example, is quite below where the building passing rent is. So I think we are quite confident that we'll be able to lease out with positive rental reversions if we need to fill up the space. In fact, I think the momentum is there.

Choon Siang Tan: We're not too concerned about it because I think, like what Yi Zhuan said, I think this is really timing, right? I think every time there's a new building, like Shaw Tower, you expect a little bit of a musical chairs. But I think Shaw Tower is pretty much, I think 60% to 70% filled already. So I think the remaining spaces, they will not be able to cut rent to try to entice people, because they probably need to make the underwriting work. And I think that exit rents for some of these tenants, Allianz specifically, for example, is quite below where the building passing rent is. So I think we are quite confident that we'll be able to lease out with positive rental reversions if we need to fill up the space. In fact, I think the momentum is there.

Speaker #4: I think every time there's a new building, like, sure, you expect a little bit of musical chairs. But I think Sure is pretty much, I think, 60 or 70 percent filled already.

Speaker #4: So I think the remaining spaces, they will not be able to cut rent to try to entice people because they probably need to, you know, make the underwriting work.

Speaker #4: And I think that exit rents for some of these tenants—Allianz specifically, for example—are quite below where the building’s passing rent is. So I think we are quite confident that we’ll be able to re-lease out the space with positive rental reversions if we need to fill up the space.

Speaker #4: In fact, I think the momentum is there. I think we are seeing, as you have seen, our office occupancy moving up as well.

Tan Choon Siang: I think we are seeing quite. You have seen our office occupancy moving up as well. So the leasing momentum is there across all of our buildings. And we expect this momentum to sustain for the next few quarters because I think now most of the new buildings has already been spoken for in terms of the anchor tenant. So I think the supply continues to be tight. We do expect occupancy to continue to improve. I think there was a third question on financing cost. Maybe Marilyn can take that.

Choon Siang Tan: I think we are seeing quite. You have seen our office occupancy moving up as well. So the leasing momentum is there across all of our buildings. And we expect this momentum to sustain for the next few quarters because I think now most of the new buildings has already been spoken for in terms of the anchor tenant. So I think the supply continues to be tight. We do expect occupancy to continue to improve. I think there was a third question on financing cost. Maybe Mei Lian can take that.

Speaker #4: So the leasing momentum is there across all of our buildings, and we expect this momentum to sustain for the next few quarters. I think now, most of the new buildings have already been spoken for in terms of the anchor tenant.

Speaker #4: So I think that the supply will, and continues to be, tight. We do expect occupancy to continue to improve. I think there was a third question on financing cost.

Speaker #4: Maybe Malin can take that.

Speaker #2: Okay. On financing cost, first half is 2.9%. So between first Q and second Q, it's relatively stable. But going forward for this year, in the second half, we do see that we have to take up more loans for the acquisition of Paragon.

Wong Mei Lian: Okay. On financing costs, H1 is 2.9%. So between Q1 and Q2, it's relatively stable. But going forward for this year, in H2, we do see that we have to take up more loans for the acquisition of Paragon. And because it's happening ahead of the divestment of Asia Square, there is a fair bit of floating rate loans that we've taken. So that has the effect of lowering the cost of debt in the quarter prior to the completion of Asia Square Tower 2. Yeah. So that would sort of have some effect of allowing the average cost of debt to inch down slightly.

Mei Lian Wong: Okay. On financing costs, H1 is 2.9%. So between Q1 and Q2, it's relatively stable. But going forward for this year, in H2, we do see that we have to take up more loans for the acquisition of Paragon. And because it's happening ahead of the divestment of Asia Square, there is a fair bit of floating rate loans that we've taken. So that has the effect of lowering the cost of debt in the quarter prior to the completion of Asia Square Tower 2. Yeah. So that would sort of have some effect of allowing the average cost of debt to inch down slightly.

Speaker #2: And because it's happening ahead of the divestment of Asia Square, there is a fair bit of floating rate loans that we've taken. So that has the effect of lowering the cost of debt in the quarter prior to the completion of AST2.

Speaker #2: Yeah, so that would sort of have some effect of allowing the average cost of debt to inch down slightly.

Allison Chen: Geraldine.

Allison Chen: Geraldine.

Speaker #5: Jordan: Okay. Morning, Chunxiang. Yeah, thanks for taking my questions. Maybe just two quick ones. I think first on reversions: I think retail is down from your usual 5% or higher.

Geraldine: Morning, Chun Siang. Yeah. Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe just two quick ones. I think first on reversions. I think retail is down from your usual 5% or higher. So what's driving that? Is it macro? Is it spending concerns on RTS? And with Paragon and your AEI completions, are you expecting that to come in a bit higher? For office as well, I think next year you have some quite large anchor leases to renew. Are you expecting that to stay or go even higher? Yeah. So that's my first question. I think second on pipeline development and AEI looks very fruitful from now till 2030. Are you actively looking to add on to that?

Geraldine Wong: Morning, Chun Siang. Yeah. Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe just two quick ones. I think first on reversions. I think retail is down from your usual 5% or higher. So what's driving that? Is it macro? Is it spending concerns on RTS? And with Paragon and your AEI completions, are you expecting that to come in a bit higher? For office as well, I think next year you have some quite large anchor leases to renew. Are you expecting that to stay or go even higher? Yeah. So that's my first question. I think second on pipeline development and AEI looks very fruitful from now till 2030. Are you actively looking to add on to that?

Speaker #5: So, what's driving that? Is it macro? Is it spending concerns on RTS? And with Paragon and your AI completions, are you expecting that to come in a bit higher?

Speaker #5: For office as well, I think next year you have some quite large anchor leases to renew. Are you expecting that to stay, or go even higher?

Speaker #5: Yeah, so that’s my first question. I think second, on pipeline development and AI—it looks very fruitful from now to 2030. Are you actively looking to add on to that?

Speaker #4: Okay, so I think for rental reversion, yes, it has softened a little bit. I think it's partly due to a few large leases, and each one can comment on that also.

Tan Choon Siang: Okay. I think for rental reversion, yes, softened a little bit. I think it is partly due to a few large leases. Lee Yi Zhuan can comment on that also. There is also a bit of the effect of the AEI, because when we are going through some of the AEIs, of course, some of the renewals will not be able to be as aggressive as for a normal mall. I think I will let Lee Yi Zhuan elaborate on that. For rental reversions, maybe I will touch on the second question first before I hand it over to him. In terms of our pipeline, as you rightly pointed out, I think we have a very strong pipeline. We already have the outcome development. We have some AEI. We have Plaza Singapura AEI potentially in Paragon.

Choon Siang Tan: Okay. I think for rental reversion, yes, softened a little bit. I think it is partly due to a few large leases. Lee Yi Zhuan can comment on that also. There is also a bit of the effect of the AEI, because when we are going through some of the AEIs, of course, some of the renewals will not be able to be as aggressive as for a normal mall. I think I will let Lee Yi Zhuan elaborate on that. For rental reversions, maybe I will touch on the second question first before I hand it over to him. In terms of our pipeline, as you rightly pointed out, I think we have a very strong pipeline. We already have the outcome development. We have some AEI. We have Plaza Singapura AEI potentially in Paragon.

Speaker #4: There is also a bit of the effect of the AEI because when we are going through some of the AEIs, of course, for some of the renewals, we will not be able to be as aggressive as for a normal mall.

Speaker #4: So, I think I'll let each one elaborate on that. And for rental reversions, maybe I'll touch on the second question first before I hand it over to him.

Speaker #4: In terms of our pipeline, as you rightly pointed out, I think we have a very strong pipeline. We already have the outcome development, and we have some AEI.

Speaker #4: We have Plaza Singapura AEI, potentially in Paragon. So we are... I think, ideally, we want to have a consistent flow of AEIs so that, you know, there's an entry and exit in terms of cash flow.

Tan Choon Siang: I think ideally we want to have a consistent flow of AEI so that there is an entry and exit in terms of cash flow. That is what we are trying to do, build up a consistent portfolio of AEI, so to speak. Maybe 2 or 3, so that you can recycle them every 2 to 3 years so that the cash flows can match. I think we are open. I think we still have some capacity in terms of our balance sheet, in terms of our resources, and in terms of our ability to commit. Tampines Mall and Lot One will get completed end of this year anyway. So that it will free up some capacity in terms of both management resources as well as financial resources.

Choon Siang Tan: I think ideally we want to have a consistent flow of AEI so that there is an entry and exit in terms of cash flow. That is what we are trying to do, build up a consistent portfolio of AEI, so to speak. Maybe 2 or 3, so that you can recycle them every 2 to 3 years so that the cash flows can match. I think we are open. I think we still have some capacity in terms of our balance sheet, in terms of our resources, and in terms of our ability to commit. Tampines Mall and Lot One will get completed end of this year anyway. So that it will free up some capacity in terms of both management resources as well as financial resources.

Speaker #4: That's what we are trying to do—build up a consistent portfolio of AEIs, so to speak; maybe two or three, so that you can recycle them every two to three years, and the cash flows can match.

Speaker #4: I think we are open. I think we still have some capacity in terms of our balance sheet, in terms of our resources, and in terms of our ability to commit, because the company is small and not one will get completed by the end of this year anyway.

Speaker #4: So that you will free up some capacity in terms of both management resources as well as financial resources. And our development limit is not anywhere close to the threshold yet, by virtue of the fact that we have such a large asset base. But I think all this is very opportunistic, of course. As with all things, we look at everything with very keen financial eyes and perspective. We only want to do things that ensure a certain rate of return to our investors. So, I'll leave it as that. So, we'll see what comes up. If there's anything interesting, we will definitely want to participate if it makes sense. Maybe you can just—

Tan Choon Siang: Our development limit is not anywhere close to the threshold yet by virtue of the fact that we have such a large asset base. But I think all this is very opportunistic. Of course, as with all things, we look at everything with very keen financial eyes and perspective. We only want to do things that ensure a certain rate of return to our investors. So are the others then. We will see what comes up. If there is anything interesting, we will definitely want to participate if it makes sense. Chun, maybe you can just, yeah.

Choon Siang Tan: Our development limit is not anywhere close to the threshold yet by virtue of the fact that we have such a large asset base. But I think all this is very opportunistic. Of course, as with all things, we look at everything with very keen financial eyes and perspective. We only want to do things that ensure a certain rate of return to our investors. So are the others then. We will see what comes up. If there is anything interesting, we will definitely want to participate if it makes sense. Chun, maybe you can just, yeah.

Speaker #3: Yeah, so for the reversions, yeah, it's true that this quarter is a little bit lower. It's really quite specific to a couple of assets and leases.

Lee Yi Zhuan: For the reversions, yeah, it is true that this quarter it is a little bit lower. It is really quite specific to a couple of assets and leases, in the downtown right where we are undergoing AEI. So that kind of help pull down everything. While the suburban is helping to, on the other hand, pull up, maintain some of these. So suburban rent reversions is still relatively healthy. Overall, I think at this point in the market, retailers are kind of under pressure in terms of their margins, manpower cost, operational cost. We always stress that when we look at some of these rent reversions, we want to make sure that the trade mix is correct, the tenants is correct. When we look at the reversions, we just want to hope that it is actually something that is sustainable, that is in line with growing their business with us. Yeah.

Yi Zhuan Lee: For the reversions, yeah, it is true that this quarter it is a little bit lower. It is really quite specific to a couple of assets and leases, in the downtown right where we are undergoing AEI. So that kind of help pull down everything. While the suburban is helping to, on the other hand, pull up, maintain some of these. So suburban rent reversions is still relatively healthy. Overall, I think at this point in the market, retailers are kind of under pressure in terms of their margins, manpower cost, operational cost. We always stress that when we look at some of these rent reversions, we want to make sure that the trade mix is correct, the tenants is correct. When we look at the reversions, we just want to hope that it is actually something that is sustainable, that is in line with growing their business with us. Yeah.

Speaker #3: In the downtown, right, where we are undergoing AEI. So that kind of helps pull down everything, while the suburban is helping to, on the other hand, pull up and maintain some of these. So, suburban rent reversions are still relatively healthy overall. I think at this point in the market, retailers are kind of, you know, under pressure in terms of their margins, manpower costs, operational costs, and we always stress that when we look at some of these rent reversions, right, we want to make sure that the trade mix is correct, the tenants are correct, and then when we look at the reversions, we just want to hope that it is actually something that's sustainable, that's in line with growing their business with us.

Speaker #3: Yeah.

Speaker #4: Yeah, it's still within our range of meets and go digits. Four percent—I don't want to sound so doom and gloom—4 to 7% is not too bad.

Tan Choon Siang: Yeah. It is still within our range of mid-single digits.

Choon Siang Tan: Yeah. It is still within our range of mid-single digits.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Yeah.

Yi Zhuan Lee: Yeah.

Tan Choon Siang: 4% for. I know it sounds so doom and gloom. If 4% to 7% is not too bad. If you look at the GDP numbers that came out yesterday, 5.9% GDP growth in Q2, forecast of 4.5% to 5.5%. I think all of this will have positive spillover effects to retail spend in general. I think if you look at retail sales, it has been up quite consistently despite what has been happening around the world in terms of geopolitical tensions. But Singapore seems to be holding up quite well, both in terms of GDP growth, retail sales, and overall economic environment. I think generally, I think the mood is actually quite optimistic than bullish is my sense.

Choon Siang Tan: 4% for. I know it sounds so doom and gloom. If 4% to 7% is not too bad. If you look at the GDP numbers that came out yesterday, 5.9% GDP growth in Q2, forecast of 4.5% to 5.5%. I think all of this will have positive spillover effects to retail spend in general. I think if you look at retail sales, it has been up quite consistently despite what has been happening around the world in terms of geopolitical tensions. But Singapore seems to be holding up quite well, both in terms of GDP growth, retail sales, and overall economic environment. I think generally, I think the mood is actually quite optimistic than bullish is my sense.

Speaker #4: If you look at the GDP numbers that came out yesterday—5.9% GDP growth in the second quarter, with a forecast of 4.5 to 5.5%—I think all of this will have positive spillover effects on retail spend in general.

Speaker #4: If you look at retail sales, they've been up quite consistently despite what's been happening around the world in terms of geopolitical tensions. But Singapore seems to be holding out quite well, both in terms of GDP growth, retail sales, and the overall economic environment.

Speaker #4: So, I think that generally, the mood is actually quite optimistic and bullish—that is my sense.

Speaker #5: Hi, Joy from HSBC. Chunxiang, we've still seen you bidding for the Bayshore plot as well. So I guess, you know, from a development perspective, what how much from, you know, what percentage of a balance sheet will you be happy to sort of spend on a development project?

Ho Mei Peng: Hi. Joy from HSBC. Chun Xiang, we have still seen you bidding for the Bayshore plot as well. I guess, from a development perspective, what percentage of a balance sheet will you be happy to spend on a development project? Also just broadly, if you think about investing for growth going forward, how would you stack core assets development, AEI, and

Joy Wang: Hi. Joy from HSBC. Chun Siang, we have still seen you bidding for the Bayshore plot as well. I guess, from a development perspective, what percentage of a balance sheet will you be happy to spend on a development project? Also just broadly, if you think about investing for growth going forward, how would you stack core assets development, AEI, and

Speaker #5: And also, just broadly, if you think about investing for growth going forward, how would you stack, sort of, core assets, development, AI, and where are you seeing the best returns at this point?

Ho Mei Peng: Where are you seeing best returns at this point? Thank you.

Joy Wang: Where are you seeing best returns at this point? Thank you.

Speaker #5: Thank you.

Speaker #4: I think I mean, our regulatory limit is 10%. Fortunately, we have a very large asset base, so we are nowhere close to that. I don't think there's a target we're trying to hit.

Tan Choon Siang: I think our regulatory limit is 10%. Fortunately, we have a very large asset base, so we are nowhere close to that. I don't think there's a target we're trying to hit. If you ask me 12 months ago, maybe the number is zero, but I think it really depends on the opportunity. I think Hougang was quite a unique opportunity. Bayshore we did participate, but I think it's slightly different. I think our approach to the Bayshore bidding is a bit different. If you look at the pricing that we enter at and all that, it's actually quite different from how we price Hougang. It reflects our desire for that site as well. Just because we bid for a site doesn't mean it's a must-win site also. Then we just price accordingly based on the attributes, the attractiveness of that location.

Choon Siang Tan: I think our regulatory limit is 10%. Fortunately, we have a very large asset base, so we are nowhere close to that. I don't think there's a target we're trying to hit. If you ask me 12 months ago, maybe the number is zero, but I think it really depends on the opportunity. I think Hougang was quite a unique opportunity. Bayshore we did participate, but I think it's slightly different. I think our approach to the Bayshore bidding is a bit different. If you look at the pricing that we enter at and all that, it's actually quite different from how we price Hougang. It reflects our desire for that site as well. Just because we bid for a site doesn't mean it's a must-win site also. Then we just price accordingly based on the attributes, the attractiveness of that location.

Speaker #4: If you asked me 12 months ago, maybe the number is zero. But I think it really depends on the opportunity. I think Outcome was quite a unique opportunity.

Speaker #4: Bayshore, we did participate, but I think it's slightly different. I think our approach to the Bayshore bidding is a bit different.

Speaker #4: I mean, if you look at the pricing that we enter at and all that, it's actually quite different from how we price outcome.

Speaker #4: It reflects our desire for that side as well. So just because we bid for a side doesn't mean it's a must-win side also.

Speaker #4: So then we just price accordingly, based on the attributes and the attractiveness of that location. Right. So in that sense, we do view the outcome as a more attractive proposition compared to, say, Bayshore.

Tan Choon Siang: In that sense, we do view Hougang as a more attractive proposition to, say, Bayshore, because it's much larger and there's a bit more scarcity element in that location. So how we bid also reflects our risk appetite for that location. Just because we bid doesn't mean that we are trying to grow our development pipeline. So that answers your first question. I think the second question was on. Okay. So I think if you look at how we look at investment returns, naturally AEI offers the best return usually because we have always talked about ROI of about 7%. But unfortunately, the capital deployed for AEI usually is quite small. So even if you get 7% on SGD 100 million, it's not as meaningful as 5% on SGD 3 billion, for example. And there's only so much you can do for AEI.

Choon Siang Tan: In that sense, we do view Hougang as a more attractive proposition to, say, Bayshore, because it's much larger and there's a bit more scarcity element in that location. So how we bid also reflects our risk appetite for that location. Just because we bid doesn't mean that we are trying to grow our development pipeline. So that answers your first question. I think the second question was on. Okay. So I think if you look at how we look at investment returns, naturally AEI offers the best return usually because we have always talked about ROI of about 7%. But unfortunately, the capital deployed for AEI usually is quite small. So even if you get 7% on SGD 100 million, it's not as meaningful as 5% on SGD 3 billion, for example. And there's only so much you can do for AEI.

Speaker #4: Right. Because it's much larger, and there's also a bit more scarcity element in that location. So yes, how we bid also reflects our real appetite for that location.

Speaker #4: So just because we bid doesn't mean that we are trying to grow our development pipeline, right? So that answers your first question. I think the second question was on—okay.

Speaker #4: So I think if you look at how we assess investment returns, usually we have always talked about an ROI of about 7%.

Speaker #4: But unfortunately, the capital deployed for AI usually is quite small. So even if you get 7% on $100 million, it's not as meaningful as 5% on $3 billion, for example, right?

Speaker #4: But there's only so much you can do for AI. We cannot do five AIs at any one time. So, to me, that forms the base of our core value.

Tan Choon Siang: We cannot do five AEIs at any one time. So that to me forms the base of our core value add. Development provides a better return than, say, buying a core asset outright, but it comes with its own risk and timing constraints as well. So I think to us, development will never make up more than, by virtue of the fact that we are limited anyway, will not make up more than 10% anyway. So it will continue to be a very small part of our portfolio. So I would say that the bulk of our portfolio is still going to come from organic, inorganic, in terms of acquisitions, with a small contribution, a kicker coming from development. It's not going to be a key focus for us.

Choon Siang Tan: We cannot do five AEIs at any one time. So that to me forms the base of our core value add. Development provides a better return than, say, buying a core asset outright, but it comes with its own risk and timing constraints as well. So I think to us, development will never make up more than, by virtue of the fact that we are limited anyway, will not make up more than 10% anyway. So it will continue to be a very small part of our portfolio. So I would say that the bulk of our portfolio is still going to come from organic, inorganic, in terms of acquisitions, with a small contribution, a kicker coming from development. It's not going to be a key focus for us.

Speaker #4: Development provides a better return than, say, buying a core asset outright, but it comes with its own risks and timing constraints as well. So I think, to us, development will never make out more than—by virtue of the fact that we are limited anyway—will not make out more than 10% anyway.

Speaker #4: So it will continue to be a very small part of our portfolio. So I would say that the bulk of our portfolio is still going to come from organic and inorganic, in terms of acquisitions, with a small contribution or kicker coming from development.

Speaker #4: It's not going to be a key focus for us.

Allison Chen: Okay. Shen, please. Can we pass the mic to Shen?

Allison Chen: Okay. Shen, please. Can we pass the mic to Shen?

Speaker #5: Okay, Shen, please. Can we pass the mic to Shen? Hi, morning. I just wanted to ask about 2027 TPU growth, because this year we look pretty much set.

Ho Mei Peng: Hi. Morning. I just wanted to ask about 2027 DPU growth. This year will look pretty much set, but going to next year is a higher base. I am assuming there is lower interest cost saving as well. So what are the growth drivers that you are working on? Any downside risks that we should be aware of? Thank you.

[Analyst 2]: Hi. Morning. I just wanted to ask about 2027 DPU growth. This year will look pretty much set, but going to next year is a higher base. I am assuming there is lower interest cost saving as well. So what are the growth drivers that you are working on? Any downside risks that we should be aware of? Thank you.

Speaker #5: But going into next year, it's a higher base. I'm assuming that's lower interest cost savings as well. So, what are the growth drivers that you're working on?

Speaker #5: Are there any downside risks that we should be aware of? Thank you.

Speaker #4: Okay, so I think it won't be that different from—okay, let's—so rental reversions continue to be positive this year, so that will drive next year's growth.

Tan Choon Siang: Okay. I think it will not be that different from. Rental reversions continue to be positive this year, so that will drive next year's growth, mid-single digits. I mean, it is not that different from last year in terms of rental reversions. I think those will continue to underpin the organic side of the growth, which call it low single digits, 1.5% to 2% for organic. This is how I typically respond to your outlook question, and you guys are used to it by now. We will start off with organic, and we will talk about AEI, and then we will talk about inorganic, and then we will talk about capital cost. But what are the new things, right? This year is kind of spoken for. We do have AEI coming up for two. One is Tampines and Lot One. Of course, the capital deployed is not that big.

Choon Siang Tan: Okay. I think it will not be that different from. Rental reversions continue to be positive this year, so that will drive next year's growth, mid-single digits. I mean, it is not that different from last year in terms of rental reversions. I think those will continue to underpin the organic side of the growth, which call it low single digits, 1.5% to 2% for organic. This is how I typically respond to your outlook question, and you guys are used to it by now. We will start off with organic, and we will talk about AEI, and then we will talk about inorganic, and then we will talk about capital cost. But what are the new things, right? This year is kind of spoken for. We do have AEI coming up for two. One is Tampines and Lot One. Of course, the capital deployed is not that big.

Speaker #4: It's mid-single digits, so you will still—I mean, it's not that different from last year. In terms of rental reversions, I think those will continue to underpin the organic side of the growth, which, call it, you know, low single digits.

Speaker #4: One and a half to two percent for organic. This is how I typically respond to your outlook question. Yeah, you guys are used to it by now.

Speaker #4: We'll start off with organic, then we'll talk about AI, followed by inorganic, and finally, we'll discuss capital costs. But what are the new things, right?

Speaker #4: Because this year is kind of spoken for. We do have AI coming up for two—one is companies, and lot one. Of course, the capital deploy is not that big.

Speaker #4: So we're talking about, we probably deploy about $50 million to $60 million, 7% return. You get about another $4 million to $5 million. That's half a percent, right?

Tan Choon Siang: So we are talking about, we probably deployed about SGD 50, SGD 60 million, 7% return, you get about another SGD 4, SGD 5 million. That is half a percent. Slightly less than half a percent. Paragon, you have six months this year, but you get 12 months next year. So you get half the accretion that we talked about, which is 1.7% for a full year. So you get 0.85% for a half year. We are just talking about big numbers. So it is not like we cannot see the drivers. We continue to see the drivers for 2027. Actually, it is 2028 that we are planning for now. I think next year we still have some drivers. The other one, of course, is interest costs. I think there is some room to bring it down slightly. We ended last year at what, 3.6? 3.4. Now we are at 2.9.

Choon Siang Tan: So we are talking about, we probably deployed about SGD 50, SGD 60 million, 7% return, you get about another SGD 4, SGD 5 million. That is half a percent. Slightly less than half a percent. Paragon, you have six months this year, but you get 12 months next year. So you get half the accretion that we talked about, which is 1.7% for a full year. So you get 0.85% for a half year. We are just talking about big numbers. So it is not like we cannot see the drivers. We continue to see the drivers for 2027. Actually, it is 2028 that we are planning for now. I think next year we still have some drivers. The other one, of course, is interest costs. I think there is some room to bring it down slightly. We ended last year at what, 3.6? 3.4. Now we are at 2.9.

Speaker #4: Slightly less than half a percent. Paragon, you have six months this year, but you get 12 months next year, so you get half the accretion that we talked about, which is 1.7% for a full year.

Speaker #4: So you get 0.85% for a half year. We're just talking about big numbers. Then we have—so this continues. So, it's not like we can't see the drivers.

Speaker #4: We continue to see the drivers for 2027. Actually, it's 2028 that we are planning for now. I think next year, we still have some drivers.

Speaker #4: The other one, of course, is interest cost. I think there is some room to bring it down slightly—probably not at the, I mean, last year we ended at about 3.6, 3.4.

Speaker #4: Now we're at 2.9. I think we can't expect another compression of 0.5%. Next year, where will we end it? I never asked the CFO.

Tan Choon Siang: I think we can expect another compression of 0.5%. Next year, where will we end it? Never ask the CFO. She will never give answer.

Choon Siang Tan: I think we can expect another compression of 0.5%. Next year, where will we end it? Never ask the CFO. She will never give answer.

Speaker #4: She'll never give an answer.

Wong Mei Lian: Depends on where interest rates go.

Mei Lian Wong: Depends on where interest rates go.

Speaker #5: Depends on where interest

Speaker #2: Rates are... At this rate, I think that whether we have any more, you know, room to cut rates—I think at this current juncture, there is limited room to cut rates. Hope that interest rates will stay stable.

Tan Choon Siang: Yeah.

Choon Siang Tan: Yeah.

Wong Mei Lian: At this rate, I think whether we have any more room to cut rates, I think at this current juncture, limited room to cut rates. Hope that interest rate will stay stable.

Mei Lian Wong: At this rate, I think whether we have any more room to cut rates, I think at this current juncture, limited room to cut rates. Hope that interest rate will stay stable.

Speaker #2: Yeah, and we continue to work on improving the spreads that we are getting financing on, whether bond spread or loan spread. So that would help to some extent, but I would say not to the extent that we saw versus last year.

Tan Choon Siang: Yeah.

Choon Siang Tan: Yeah.

Wong Mei Lian: We continue to work on improving the spreads that we are getting financing on, whether bond spread or loan spread. That would help to some extent, but I would say not to the extent that we saw versus last year.

Mei Lian Wong: We continue to work on improving the spreads that we are getting financing on, whether bond spread or loan spread. That would help to some extent, but I would say not to the extent that we saw versus last year.

Speaker #4: Yeah, and I think SORA continues to be anchored at around 1% to 1.1%. Doesn't seem like it's going up. So we still have some floating portion also.

Tan Choon Siang: SORA continues to be anchored at around 1% to 1.1%. It doesn't seem like it's going up. So we still have some floating portion also. I guess you will still get some marginal drops. I think 0.1% drives our DPU by about what? 1% thereabout. So add that all together, you kind of get the potential growth that we are looking at, I guess, for next year. Any risk? Of course, there's always risk. We are doing an AEI for, not saying risk, but there will be some downtime for some of the assets also. So not to paint an overly bullish picture in terms of our DPU growth. We are embarking on a major AEI for Plaza Singapura, so there will be some cash flow impact over there as well.

Choon Siang Tan: SORA continues to be anchored at around 1% to 1.1%. It doesn't seem like it's going up. So we still have some floating portion also. I guess you will still get some marginal drops. I think 0.1% drives our DPU by about what? 1% thereabout. So add that all together, you kind of get the potential growth that we are looking at, I guess, for next year. Any risk? Of course, there's always risk. We are doing an AEI for, not saying risk, but there will be some downtime for some of the assets also. So not to paint an overly bullish picture in terms of our DPU growth. We are embarking on a major AEI for Plaza Singapura, so there will be some cash flow impact over there as well.

Speaker #4: So I guess you will still get some marginal drops, and I think 0.1% drives our DPU by about, what, 1% thereabouts. Yeah.

Speaker #4: So, add that all together, you kind of get the kind of potential growth that we're looking at, I guess, for next year. Any risk?

Speaker #4: Of course, there's always risk. Okay. I mean, we are doing an AI for—I'm not saying risk, but there will be some downtime for some of the assets also.

Speaker #4: So, not to paint an overly bullish picture in terms of our DPU growth. We are embarking on a major AEI for Plaza Singapura, so there will be some cash flow impact over there as well.

Speaker #4: Hopefully, this will be mitigated by some of the inflows coming in and some of the other growth drivers that we have. The biggest risk will always be interest rates to me, because that is the single biggest driver. I think, in a way, that risk has already been priced in in the current environment since the Iran war.

Tan Choon Siang: Hopefully mitigated by some of the inflows coming in, and some of the other growth drivers that we have. The biggest risk will always be interest rate to me, because that is the single biggest driver. I think in a way that risk has already been priced in in the current environment. Since year-on-year, I think the market has already priced in a certain elevated interest rate environment to last a bit longer. I think economically, we have talked about how the economy is doing relatively well in Singapore. I think the supply situation in real estate looks very well controlled as well, both in terms of CBD office as well as retail. I think supply is in our favor. The other thing that actually we have not touched on is some of our operating costs we are managing quite well.

Choon Siang Tan: Hopefully mitigated by some of the inflows coming in, and some of the other growth drivers that we have. The biggest risk will always be interest rate to me, because that is the single biggest driver. I think in a way that risk has already been priced in in the current environment. Since year-on-year, I think the market has already priced in a certain elevated interest rate environment to last a bit longer. I think economically, we have talked about how the economy is doing relatively well in Singapore. I think the supply situation in real estate looks very well controlled as well, both in terms of CBD office as well as retail. I think supply is in our favor. The other thing that actually we have not touched on is some of our operating costs we are managing quite well.

Speaker #4: I think the market has already priced in a certain elevated interest rate environment to last a bit longer. So, that's— I think economically we've talked about how the economy is doing, relatively well, in Singapore.

Speaker #4: I think the supply situation in real estate looks very well controlled as well, both in terms of CBD office as well as retail.

Speaker #4: So I think supply is in our favor. The other thing that actually we haven't touched on is some of our operating costs, which we're managing quite well.

Speaker #4: There is generally an increase in OPEX, but I think our utilities cost next year will come down because of the way we have hedged our utilities cost for next year.

Tan Choon Siang: There is generally an increase in OpEx, but I think our utilities cost next year will come down because of the way we have hedged our utilities cost next year. We do expect fairly significant savings in terms of utilities cost. That should mitigate some of the OpEx increases and overall achieve better margins for us. Yeah.

Choon Siang Tan: There is generally an increase in OpEx, but I think our utilities cost next year will come down because of the way we have hedged our utilities cost next year. We do expect fairly significant savings in terms of utilities cost. That should mitigate some of the OpEx increases and overall achieve better margins for us. Yeah.

Speaker #4: So, we do expect fairly significant savings in terms of utilities costs. That should help mitigate some of the OPEX increases and, overall, achieve better margins for us.

Speaker #4: Yeah.

Speaker #5: You can take the floor. You can pass the mic to you, Kim.

Allison Chen: Yu Keng can have the floor. Pass the mic to Yu Keng.

Allison Chen: Yu Keng can have the floor. Pass the mic to Yu Keng.

Speaker #3: Hi Chun Jia. I just have a quick question on ION. I think one or two quarters ago, there was a big swing in the numbers if you include or exclude ION on the operating metrics side.

Chenja: Hi, Chenja. I just have a quick question on ION. I think 1 or 2 quarters ago, there was a big swing in the numbers if you include or exclude ION on the operating matrix side. Was it rent reversions or tenant sales, right?

[Analyst 3]: Hi, Choon Siang. I just have a quick question on ION. I think 1 or 2 quarters ago, there was a big swing in the numbers if you include or exclude ION on the operating matrix side. Was it rent reversions or tenant sales, right?

Speaker #3: Was it rent reversions or tenant sales, right?

Speaker #4: I think.

Tan Choon Siang: I think-

Choon Siang Tan: I think—

Speaker #3: And I just want to have an update on—like, what's the current performance, whether it's tracking in line. And also, post the AEI for Paragon, can the passing rents for these two assets be closer to each other?

Yu Keng: I just want to have an update on what is the current performance, whether it is tracking in line.

[Analyst 3]: I just want to have an update on what is the current performance, whether it is tracking in line.

Tan Choon Siang: Yeah.

Choon Siang Tan: Yeah.

Yu Keng: Also post the AEI for Paragon, can the passing rents for these two assets be closer to each other?

[Analyst 3]: Also post the AEI for Paragon, can the passing rents for these two assets be closer to each other?

Speaker #4: Okay. So, I think what you're referring to when we present the numbers is the sales. But that's because we include and exclude ION, for a like-for-like comparison.

Tan Choon Siang: Okay. So I think what you are referring to when we present the numbers is the sales. But that is because we include and exclude ION because of a like for like comparison. Because 2024, we did not own ION, right? So when we include ION, then it is a big jump in sales numbers on a consolidated basis. But we always strip out the effects of ION just to have a like for like when we compare. But that is not so relevant this year anymore because we have owned ION since November 2024. So when we compare sales numbers this year, we do not have to strip out the effects of ION. Maybe we have to do it for Paragon next year going forward. ION as a mall is doing well this year. It is tracking well in terms of sales, to your second question.

Choon Siang Tan: Okay. So I think what you are referring to when we present the numbers is the sales. But that is because we include and exclude ION because of a like for like comparison. Because 2024, we did not own ION, right? So when we include ION, then it is a big jump in sales numbers on a consolidated basis. But we always strip out the effects of ION just to have a like for like when we compare. But that is not so relevant this year anymore because we have owned ION since November 2024. So when we compare sales numbers this year, we do not have to strip out the effects of ION. Maybe we have to do it for Paragon next year going forward. ION as a mall is doing well this year. It is tracking well in terms of sales, to your second question.

Speaker #4: Because in 2024, we did not own ION, right? So when we include ION, then there's a big jump in sales numbers on a consolidated basis.

Speaker #4: But we always strip out the effects of ION just to have a like-for-like when we compare. But that is not so relevant this year anymore, because we have owned ION since November 2024.

Speaker #4: So, when we compare sales numbers this year, we don't have to strip out the effects of ION. Maybe we have to do it for Paragon next year, going forward.

Speaker #4: Yeah. So so that's ION as a as a more is doing well this year is tracking well in terms of sales. To your second question, so so we're not too we're actually quite happy with the performance of ION.

Tan Choon Siang: We are actually quite happy with the performance of ION. It continues to drive. Of course, you will not see the big delta that we saw last year. Last year was because it was an inorganic driver, right? Because 2024, we did not own ION. This year is more organic growth. But the organic growth at ION is still quite strong. The question was whether the gap between ION and Paragon will narrow. No, I do not think just because they change ownership, you expect the rents to be the same, to narrow. Because the tenant base is still locked in, right, for now between ION and Paragon, and it reflects the unique characteristics of the location.

Choon Siang Tan: We are actually quite happy with the performance of ION. It continues to drive. Of course, you will not see the big delta that we saw last year. Last year was because it was an inorganic driver, right? Because 2024, we did not own ION. This year is more organic growth. But the organic growth at ION is still quite strong. The question was whether the gap between ION and Paragon will narrow. No, I do not think just because they change ownership, you expect the rents to be the same, to narrow. Because the tenant base is still locked in, right, for now between ION and Paragon, and it reflects the unique characteristics of the location.

Speaker #4: It continues to drive. Of course, it won't see the big delta that we saw last year, because last year was due to an inorganic driver, right?

Speaker #4: Because in 2024 we didn't own ION. This year is more organic growth, but the organic growth for ION is still quite strong. The third question was whether the gap between ION and Paragon will narrow.

Speaker #4: No, I don't think just because it changed ownership you would expect the rents to be the same, to be too narrow. Because the tenant base is still locked in, right, for now, between ION and Paragon.

Speaker #4: And it reflects the unique characteristics of the location.

Speaker #3: After AEI.

Yu Keng: After AEI.

[Analyst 3]: After AEI.

Speaker #4: Oh, after AEI. Oh, you haven't even talked about what AEI is yet, so it would be hard to address the question. No, I don't think so.

Tan Choon Siang: Oh, after AEI. Oh, we have not even talked about what AEI yet. So it will be hard to address that question. No, I do not think so. I think ION has a very unique locational advantage that Paragon does not have, regardless of how we value Paragon. Paragon has unique characteristics that ION also does not have. Proximity to Mount Elizabeth. We have our own medical center, and the medical center itself actually drives some of the rental growth as well, which ION does not have because ION is 100% retail. So we are in a way an integrated development where the medical center traffic also helps to drive some of the performance of the mall. But underlying the performance of the entire asset is also the rental growth and the medical center, which is actually stronger than the rental reversion for retail component.

Choon Siang Tan: Oh, after AEI. Oh, we have not even talked about what AEI yet. So it will be hard to address that question. No, I do not think so. I think ION has a very unique locational advantage that Paragon does not have, regardless of how we value Paragon. Paragon has unique characteristics that ION also does not have. Proximity to Mount Elizabeth. We have our own medical center, and the medical center itself actually drives some of the rental growth as well, which ION does not have because ION is 100% retail. So we are in a way an integrated development where the medical center traffic also helps to drive some of the performance of the mall. But underlying the performance of the entire asset is also the rental growth and the medical center, which is actually stronger than the rental reversion for retail component.

Speaker #4: I mean, I think ION has a very unique locational advantage that Paragon does not have. Regardless of how we value Paragon, Paragon has unique characteristics that ION also doesn't have—like proximity to Mount Elizabeth.

Speaker #4: We have our own medical center, and that medical center itself actually drives some of the rental growth as well, which ION doesn't have, because ION is 100% retail.

Speaker #4: So, we are, in a way, an integrated development, where the medical center traffic also helps to drive some of the performance of the mall. But underlying the performance of the entire asset is also the rental growth in the medical center, which is actually stronger than the rental reversion for the retail component.

Speaker #4: But if you ask me whether Paragon will become like ION in terms of rent for retail, I think it's not so easy, because, like what we mentioned, it comes down to location.

Tan Choon Siang: But if you ask me whether Paragon will become like ION in terms of rent for retail, I think it is not so easy because like what we mentioned, because of the location. ION sits on top of an MRT station, which Paragon unfortunately does not have the advantage. And there is ultimately a difference because of the footfall, the natural driver of footfall is linkage to a lot of this transit and infrastructure.

Choon Siang Tan: But if you ask me whether Paragon will become like ION in terms of rent for retail, I think it is not so easy because like what we mentioned, because of the location. ION sits on top of an MRT station, which Paragon unfortunately does not have the advantage. And there is ultimately a difference because of the footfall, the natural driver of footfall is linkage to a lot of this transit and infrastructure.

Speaker #4: I mean, ION sits on top of an MRT station, which Paragon unfortunately does not have that advantage. And there is ultimately a difference because of the footfall—the natural driver of footfall is, you know, linkage to a lot of this transit and infrastructure.

Speaker #5: Perhaps we can turn our attention to the online questions. Can we have Mei Peng read out fast? Yeah. So we have received a total of three questions.

Ho Mei Peng: Perhaps we can turn our attention to the online questions. Can we have Mei Ping read out first? We have received a total of 3 questions. 2 are from The Straits Times, Benjamin. His first question is that it seems that the trend of a major department store being a mall's anchor tenant is on the wane, with Metro leaving Paragon and Isetan closing its Tampines Mall out the last year. What is the strategy going forward for an anchor tenant, and will you also be exploring a new concept for Paragon and/or other malls to retain footfall? That is the first question. The second question is, will you be exploring converting some of the malls to office spaces, like what has been observed in other Orchard Road malls recently? Second question.

Allison Chen: Perhaps we can turn our attention to the online questions. Can we have Mei Peng read out first?

Ho Mei Peng: We have received a total of 3 questions. 2 are from The Straits Times, Benjamin. His first question is that it seems that the trend of a major department store being a mall's anchor tenant is on the wane, with Metro leaving Paragon and Isetan closing its Tampines Mall out the last year. What is the strategy going forward for an anchor tenant, and will you also be exploring a new concept for Paragon and/or other malls to retain footfall? That is the first question. The second question is, will you be exploring converting some of the malls to office spaces, like what has been observed in other Orchard Road malls recently? Second question.

Speaker #5: Two are from The Straits Times, Benjamin. His first question is that it seems the trend of a major department store being a mall's anchor tenant is on the wane, with Metro leaving Paragon and Isetan closing its Tampines Mall outlet last year.

Speaker #5: So, what is the strategy going forward for an anchor tenant? And will you also be exploring a new concept for Paragon and/or other malls to retain footfall?

Speaker #5: So that's the first question. The second question is, will you be exploring converting some of the malls to office spaces, like what has been observed in other Orchard Road malls recently?

Speaker #5: Second question. The third question is from Mr. Yap—our usual question: What is the status of the ION Orchard text transparency? Yep.

Ho Mei Peng: The third question is from Mr. Yap, our usual question: What is the status of the ION Orchard tax transparency?

Ho Mei Peng: The third question is from Mr. Yap, our usual question: What is the status of the ION Orchard tax transparency?

Speaker #4: Oh, okay. I'll take the easier third question first. The answer is no update on the text transparency for ION. Well, we converted some of our mall space to office, like at Orchard Central.

Tan Choon Siang: Well, I will take the easy third question first. Answer is no update on the tax transparency for ION. Will we convert some of our mall space to office like Orchard Central? Answer is probably no, because our retail space is quite valuable. I think that conversation is only relevant if the retail space in question is not working out well. Because actually rent for retail is always higher than rent for office. So you will never convert to office unless the underlying rent for the retail space is actually lower than the office rent, which is actually quite a big gap. So, I think, generally, no, because most of our retail spaces are actually quite fully occupied. Okay, the hard question, I will leave it to Yi-Chuan. The first question.

Choon Siang Tan: Well, I will take the easy third question first. Answer is no update on the tax transparency for ION. Will we convert some of our mall space to office like Orchard Central? Answer is probably no, because our retail space is quite valuable. I think that conversation is only relevant if the retail space in question is not working out well. Because actually rent for retail is always higher than rent for office. So you will never convert to office unless the underlying rent for the retail space is actually lower than the office rent, which is actually quite a big gap. So, I think, generally, no, because most of our retail spaces are actually quite fully occupied. Okay, the hard question, I will leave it to Yi Zhuan. The first question.

Speaker #4: The answer is probably no, because our retail space is quite valuable. I think that conversation is only relevant if the retail space in question is not working out well.

Speaker #4: Actually, rent for retail is always higher than rent for office. So you will never convert to office unless the underlying rent for the retail space is actually lower than the office rent, which is actually quite a big gap.

Speaker #4: So, I think generally no, because most of our retail spaces are actually quite fully occupied. Okay, the hard question, I'll leave it to each one.

Speaker #4: The first question.

Speaker #2: If on the departmental store, I think, just like cinema or these, there are always trends and how things are going. For departmental stores, it used to play a very important role as an anchor.

Lee Yi Zhuan: On the departmental store, I think just like cinema, all these, there is always trends in how things are going. For departmental store, it used to play a very important role in anchor, the variety of things they bring to the mall, and of course then drive the footfall and give stability. In exchange, actually sometimes, most of the time, rather, the rent is on the lower side of things, right? In the current format of stores, we have a very strong operator who have very direct access to a lot of all these brands. If you look at Tampines Mall, when we took out Isetan, we replaced with a lot of duties brands and lux beauty brands, for example. So we have all this access. There is a lot of these brands, actually, we can actually reach out to them directly.

Yi Zhuan Lee: On the departmental store, I think just like cinema, all these, there is always trends in how things are going. For departmental store, it used to play a very important role in anchor, the variety of things they bring to the mall, and of course then drive the footfall and give stability. In exchange, actually sometimes, most of the time, rather, the rent is on the lower side of things, right? In the current format of stores, we have a very strong operator who have very direct access to a lot of all these brands. If you look at Tampines Mall, when we took out Isetan, we replaced with a lot of duties brands and lux beauty brands, for example. So we have all this access. There is a lot of these brands, actually, we can actually reach out to them directly.

Speaker #2: The variety of things they bring to the mall, and of course, then, you know, drive the footfall and give stability. And in exchange, actually, sometimes—most of the time, rather—the rent is on the lower side of things, right?

Speaker #2: In the current format of stores, right, we have a very strong operator who has very direct access to a lot of all these brands. You know, like if you look at Tampines Mall, right, when we took out Isetan, we replaced it with a lot of beauty brands and luxury beauty brands, for example.

Speaker #2: So we have all this access. There are a lot of these brands—actually, we can reach out to them directly. And then the inherent question is, what role does the department store play?

Lee Yi Zhuan: And then the inherent question is, what role does the departmental store play? Eventually, this is something that the departmental stores themselves have to come and think through how they want to reposition. It is not to say that there is no place for departmental stores. It is just a different format. There are still some departmental stores around Singapore that are doing still okay. In fact, if you look at some of the overseas market, departmental store is still a very key part of the overall shopping experience. But at least within the Singapore context, its ability to drive footfall, experience, everything, is something that they have to keep up. If not, there is a lot of all these things that we can do at the mall level. Some of the AEIs that we have actually shared recently, like Plaza Singapura, we actually move a lot more into experiential dining, experiential concepts.

Yi Zhuan Lee: And then the inherent question is, what role does the departmental store play? Eventually, this is something that the departmental stores themselves have to come and think through how they want to reposition. It is not to say that there is no place for departmental stores. It is just a different format. There are still some departmental stores around Singapore that are doing still okay. In fact, if you look at some of the overseas market, departmental store is still a very key part of the overall shopping experience. But at least within the Singapore context, its ability to drive footfall, experience, everything, is something that they have to keep up. If not, there is a lot of all these things that we can do at the mall level. Some of the AEIs that we have actually shared recently, like Plaza Singapura, we actually move a lot more into experiential dining, experiential concepts.

Speaker #2: Eventually, this is something that the departmental stores themselves have to come and think through—how they want to reposition. It's not to say that there's no place for departmental stores.

Speaker #2: You know, it's just a different format. I mean, there are still some departmental stores around Singapore that are still doing okay. In fact, if you look at some of the overseas markets, departmental stores are still a very key part of the overall shopping experience.

Speaker #2: But at least within the Singapore context, its ability to drive footfall, experience—everything—is something that they have to keep up. If not, you know, there are a lot of all these things that we can do at a mall level.

Speaker #2: So, some of the AEIs that we have actually shared recently—like at Plaza Sing—we actually move a lot more into experiential dining, experiential concepts, and in some of the places, when we talk to tenants, right, some of the new tenants, we really try to look at not just beyond selling a product itself but what kind of experience that they're trying to sell.

Lee Yi Zhuan: In some of the places when we talk to tenants, some of the new tenants, we really try to look at not just beyond selling a product itself, but what is the kind of experience that they are trying to sell. Then on our end, we try to curate that as holistically on a mall level basis. This is how we kind of see things that will kind of keep us over time.

Yi Zhuan Lee: In some of the places when we talk to tenants, some of the new tenants, we really try to look at not just beyond selling a product itself, but what is the kind of experience that they are trying to sell. Then on our end, we try to curate that as holistically on a mall level basis. This is how we kind of see things that will kind of keep us over time.

Speaker #2: And then on our end, we try to curate that as holistically on a mall-level basis. Yeah. So this is how we kind of see things that we can pivot over time.

Speaker #2: Yeah.

Speaker #5: I think, Rachel, you can have the next question.

Ho Mei Peng: I think Rachel, you can have the next question.

Ho Mei Peng: I think Rachel, you can have the next question.

Speaker #6: Hi, thanks. Maybe just a few more questions. On Vlog Place, do you see Hong Kong Land as a big competitor to you? Because they do have connections with the luxury brands as well.

Rachel: Hi. Thanks. Maybe just a few more questions. On Wheelock Place, do you see Hongkong Land as a big competitor to you? Because they do have connections with the luxury brands as well. So are they going to revamp the mall and be a competitor to you? Second is, I think we did not really speak about acquisitions. I mean, you have done big acquisitions last year, this year. Are we going to see another big one next year? Sponsor or third party, still Singapore? Last one, I think MAC occupancy dropped to 75%. Could you give us some color? Dropping to 75% occupancy, can you still sell MAC?

Rachel Tan: Hi. Thanks. Maybe just a few more questions. On Wheelock Place, do you see Hongkong Land as a big competitor to you? Because they do have connections with the luxury brands as well. So are they going to revamp the mall and be a competitor to you? Second is, I think we did not really speak about acquisitions. I mean, you have done big acquisitions last year, this year. Are we going to see another big one next year? Sponsor or third party, still Singapore? Last one, I think MAC occupancy dropped to 75%. Could you give us some color? Dropping to 75% occupancy, can you still sell MAC?

Speaker #6: So, are they going to revamp the mall and become a competitor to you? Second, I think we didn't really speak about acquisitions. I mean, you have done big acquisitions last year and this year.

Speaker #6: Are we going to see another big one next year? Sponsor or third party still Singapore? And last one, I think MAC occupancy dropped to 75%.

Speaker #6: Could you give us some color? And if occupancy drops to 75%, can you still sell MAC?

Speaker #4: Okay. Do we see Hongkong Land as a competitor? I think, no, I think we can coexist. Like I said, Relo has always been there as a competitor to ION.

Tan Choon Siang: Okay. Do we see Hongkong Land as a competitor? No, I think we can coexist. Like I said, Wheelock has always been there as a competitor to ION. Whether you call it competitor or I don't think it makes a difference if the ownership changes, unless they somehow revamp the mall. But they haven't said what they are going to do with the asset, so we don't know also. If they keep it as it is, I don't think it makes a difference. Is it easy to revamp the mall? Not so easy also, I think. Because Wheelock doesn't have the frontage, Orchard Road frontage, if you look at it. They only have a small sliver of frontage to Orchard Road, which will be quite challenging to attract luxury brands, because they all want the Orchard Road frontage. We don't know, to be honest.

Choon Siang Tan: Okay. Do we see Hongkong Land as a competitor? No, I think we can coexist. Like I said, Wheelock has always been there as a competitor to ION. Whether you call it competitor or I don't think it makes a difference if the ownership changes, unless they somehow revamp the mall. But they haven't said what they are going to do with the asset, so we don't know also. If they keep it as it is, I don't think it makes a difference. Is it easy to revamp the mall? Not so easy also, I think. Because Wheelock doesn't have the frontage, Orchard Road frontage, if you look at it. They only have a small sliver of frontage to Orchard Road, which will be quite challenging to attract luxury brands, because they all want the Orchard Road frontage. We don't know, to be honest.

Speaker #4: Whether you call it a competitor or not, you know, I don't think it makes a difference if the ownership changes unless they somehow revamp the mall.

Speaker #4: But I mean, they haven't said what they're going to do with the asset, so we don't know. Also, if they keep it as it is, I don't think it makes a difference.

Speaker #4: Is it easy to revamp the mall? Not so easy also, I think. Because Relo doesn’t have the Orchard Road frontage. If you look at it, they only have a small sliver of frontage to Orchard Road, which will be quite challenging to attract luxury brands.

Speaker #4: Because they all want the Orchard Road frontage, so we don't know, to be honest. We'll have to see how. But you know, malls in Orchard Road—just because another mall next to you does well doesn't mean you do worse.

Tan Choon Siang: We will have to see how. But malls in Orchard Road, just because another mall next to you does well doesn't mean you do worse, actually. There is a little bit of complementarity to it. It actually adds to the vibrancy when your adjacent mall does well also. If you look at Wisma, Takashimaya, and ION as a collective belt, actually everyone doing well benefits the others. Because it just brings traffic to the whole area. Today, I think we are talking about the whole of Orchard Road competing against Marina Bay, competing against Suntec City, VivoCity. I think it's actually good that we have some rejuvenation of Orchard Road. If Hongkong Land is able to attract a new footfall to Wheelock, I think that's actually good for the area overall.

Choon Siang Tan: We will have to see how. But malls in Orchard Road, just because another mall next to you does well doesn't mean you do worse, actually. There is a little bit of complementarity to it. It actually adds to the vibrancy when your adjacent mall does well also. If you look at Wisma, Takashimaya, and ION as a collective belt, actually everyone doing well benefits the others. Because it just brings traffic to the whole area. Today, I think we are talking about the whole of Orchard Road competing against Marina Bay, competing against Suntec City, VivoCity. I think it's actually good that we have some rejuvenation of Orchard Road. If Hongkong Land is able to attract a new footfall to Wheelock, I think that's actually good for the area overall.

Speaker #4: Actually, there’s a little bit of complementarity too—it actually adds to the vibrancy when your adjacent mall does well also. I mean, if you look at Wisma Atria and ION as a collective belt, actually, everyone doing well benefits the others.

Speaker #4: Because it just brings traffic to the whole area. So today, I think we are talking about, you know, the whole Orchard Road competing against Marina Bay, competing against, you know, Suntec City, VivoCity.

Speaker #4: So I think it's actually good that we have some rejuvenation of Orchard Road. If Hongkong Land is able to attract a new footfall to Relo, I think that's actually good for the area overall.

Speaker #4: So, I don't see that as necessarily a bad thing. Every time there's a rejuvenation of an old asset on Orchard Road—in fact, we welcome it.

Tan Choon Siang: I don't see that as necessarily a bad thing every time there's a rejuvenation of an old asset on Orchard Road. In fact, we welcome it, whether it's Hongkong Land or somebody else. I think the better and more refurbished assets are, whether they are new concept, I think it's better for all of us. Next is MAC. Yeah. MAC occupancy. It doesn't preclude us from looking at it. It's all a matter of pricing, right? Question is whether we are able to get the pricing that we get. We don't know. The market has been challenging for a while. Question is that a right time, and will it ever get to 100%? We don't know. I think there is no harm testing the market to see what kind of offers we can get. End of the day, it's not a big asset.

Choon Siang Tan: I don't see that as necessarily a bad thing every time there's a rejuvenation of an old asset on Orchard Road. In fact, we welcome it, whether it's Hongkong Land or somebody else. I think the better and more refurbished assets are, whether they are new concept, I think it's better for all of us. Next is MAC. Yeah. MAC occupancy. It doesn't preclude us from looking at it. It's all a matter of pricing, right? Question is whether we are able to get the pricing that we get. We don't know. The market has been challenging for a while. Question is that a right time, and will it ever get to 100%? We don't know. I think there is no harm testing the market to see what kind of offers we can get. End of the day, it's not a big asset.

Speaker #4: Whether it's Hong Kong Land or somebody else, I think the better and more refurbished the assets are, whether they're a new concept, I think that's better for all of us.

Speaker #4: Next is, oh, Mac. Yeah, Mac occupancy. I think we can still—I mean, it doesn't preclude us from looking at it. It's all a matter of pricing, right?

Speaker #4: The question is whether we are able to get the pricing that we have been getting. So, we don't know. But I mean, the market has been challenging for a while.

Speaker #4: So, the question is: is there a right time, and will it ever get to 100%? We don't know. So I think there is no harm in testing the market.

Speaker #4: To see what kind of offers we can get. At the end of the day, it's not a big asset. So then we have to make an assessment, depending on what the—what are the kind of pricings that we see in the market.

Tan Choon Siang: We have to make an assessment depending on what are the kind of pricings that we see in the market. Yeah. Acquisitions. I also want to know. Acquisitions, as you know, we typically can't really comment that much unless there's something tangible. But I think I will rather answer it by giving parameters. I think if there's any acquisition, it's most likely going to be in Singapore. I don't think we are looking at any acquisitions in Frankfurt. We do recognize that investors are invested in CICT because of our exposure to Singapore. We want to continue to make Singapore a dominant part of our portfolio. The question is, what other assets can you buy in Singapore? Actually, there are quite a few things in the market. Both office has been quite active.

Choon Siang Tan: We have to make an assessment depending on what are the kind of pricings that we see in the market. Yeah. Acquisitions. I also want to know. Acquisitions, as you know, we typically can't really comment that much unless there's something tangible. But I think I will rather answer it by giving parameters. I think if there's any acquisition, it's most likely going to be in Singapore. I don't think we are looking at any acquisitions in Frankfurt. We do recognize that investors are invested in CICT because of our exposure to Singapore. We want to continue to make Singapore a dominant part of our portfolio. The question is, what other assets can you buy in Singapore? Actually, there are quite a few things in the market. Both office has been quite active.

Speaker #4: Yeah, acquisitions. I also want to know. Acquisitions, as you know, we typically can't really command that much unless there's something tangible. But I think I'd rather answer it by giving parameters, right?

Speaker #4: I think if there's any acquisition, it's most likely going to be in Singapore. I don't think we are looking at any acquisitions in Frankfurt.

Speaker #4: So, we do recognize that investors are invested in CICT because of our exposure to Singapore. So, we want to continue to make Singapore a dominant part of our portfolio.

Speaker #4: So then the question is, what assets can you buy? Actually, there are quite a few things in the market. Both offices have been quite active.

Speaker #4: I think most of you are aware there are quite a few assets in the market in terms of office. I mean, of course, we will take a look if it makes sense. With the interest in Singapore assets, the pricing seems to be getting a bit more and more challenging.

Tan Choon Siang: I think most of you are aware there are quite a few assets in the market in terms of office. Of course, we will take a look if it makes sense. With the interest in Singapore assets, the pricing seems to be getting a bit more and more challenging. People seem to be prepared to pay higher prices for some of these assets, which bodes well for our existing assets. Given that we are the largest landlord, I think any increase in asset values generally is overall good for our portfolio. But it also makes it harder for us to acquire because the numbers are harder to make it work. We do not know. We will review the opportunities that are in the market to the extent that makes sense. But like I said, you also rightly pointed out we have done quite a few large acquisitions.

Choon Siang Tan: I think most of you are aware there are quite a few assets in the market in terms of office. Of course, we will take a look if it makes sense. With the interest in Singapore assets, the pricing seems to be getting a bit more and more challenging. People seem to be prepared to pay higher prices for some of these assets, which bodes well for our existing assets. Given that we are the largest landlord, I think any increase in asset values generally is overall good for our portfolio. But it also makes it harder for us to acquire because the numbers are harder to make it work. We do not know. We will review the opportunities that are in the market to the extent that makes sense. But like I said, you also rightly pointed out we have done quite a few large acquisitions.

Speaker #4: People seem to be prepared to pay higher prices for some of these assets, which bodes well for our existing assets. In terms of, I mean, given that we're the largest landlord, I think any increase in asset values generally is overall good for our portfolio.

Speaker #4: But it also makes it harder for us to acquire because the numbers are harder to make it work. So, we don't know. We'll review the opportunities that are in the market to the extent that makes sense.

Speaker #4: But, like I said—and as you also rightly pointed out—we have done quite a few large acquisitions. I think let us digest a little bit.

Tan Choon Siang: I think let us digest a little bit. Yeah.

Choon Siang Tan: I think let us digest a little bit. Yeah.

Speaker #4: Yeah.

Speaker #6: Any other questions? Sorry, Marvin, he beat you to it.

Allison Chen: Any other questions? Sorry, Mervyn. He beat you to it.

Allison Chen: Any other questions? Sorry, Mervin. He beat you to it.

Speaker #7: Hello. Hi. Sorry, I'm Joby from Singapore. Thanks. Just two questions here. It's been some years since CQ at Clarke Quay has reopened.

Jovi: Hello. Hi, sir. I am Jovi from Data Singapore. Thanks. Just two questions here. It has been some years since CQ @ Clarke Quay has reopened. Some would say that the final piece is complete now that Zouk has reopened and refurbished. How is the property performing compared to your other assets downtown both in numbers, and also has the day-to-night proposition played out, especially the night part at Clarke Quay? Based on your team's prior experience in repurposing space at other malls with AEI, what is your plan to refresh the large spaces left behind by tenants? Looking at Plaza Singapura for example, we have seen other mall owners use very creative ways to replace cinemas that have left space behind. What is your plan of attack for the cinema space at Plaza Singapura? Thanks.

Jovi Ho: Hello. Hi, sir. I am Jovi from The Edge Singapore. Thanks. Just two questions here. It has been some years since CQ @ Clarke Quay has reopened. Some would say that the final piece is complete now that Zouk has reopened and refurbished. How is the property performing compared to your other assets downtown both in numbers, and also has the day-to-night proposition played out, especially the night part at Clarke Quay? Based on your team's prior experience in repurposing space at other malls with AEI, what is your plan to refresh the large spaces left behind by tenants? Looking at Plaza Singapura for example, we have seen other mall owners use very creative ways to replace cinemas that have left space behind. What is your plan of attack for the cinema space at Plaza Singapura? Thanks.

Speaker #7: Some would say that the final piece is complete now that Zouk has reopened and been refurbished. How is that property performing compared to your other assets downtown, both in numbers and also, has the day-to-night proposition played out, especially the night part at Clarke Quay?

Speaker #7: And based on your team's prior experience in repurposing space at other malls with AEI, what is your plan to refresh the large spaces left behind by tenants?

Speaker #7: So looking at plaza things, for example, we've seen other mall owners use very creative ways to replace cinemas that have left space behind. So what is your plan of attack for the cinema space at Plaza Sing?

Speaker #7: Thanks.

Speaker #4: Can you take the question?

Lee Yi Zhuan: Jun, you want to take the question?

Choon Siang Tan: Yi Zhuan, you want to take the question?

Speaker #8: Can sorry, the first question.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Sorry, the first question.

Yi Zhuan Lee: Sorry, the first question.

Tan Choon Siang: CQ.

Choon Siang Tan: CQ.

Speaker #4: CQ. CQ and Plaza Singh.

Speaker #8: CQ: Oh, okay. Is that the final piece of the puzzle? I would say no. It's always a work in progress. I would say, in fact, quite the contrary—with Zoop, you know, kind of reaffirming their long-term plans with CQ and then the recent renovation that they have done.

Lee Yi Zhuan: CQ.

Yi Zhuan Lee: CQ.

Lee Yi Zhuan: CQ and Plaza.

Choon Siang Tan: CQ and Plaza.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Okay. Is that the final piece of the puzzle? I would say no. It is always a work in progress. I would say, in fact, quite the country with Zouk kind of reaffirm their long-term plans with CQ, and then the recent renovation that they have done is just going to help us put some of the pieces together for next growth when we look at Canninghill completing end of this year and some of the tenants coming through. Just beyond Zouk, actually, some of the tenants that have already been in Clarke Quay itself has also been quite positive in the directions that we are heading, and actually some of them are actually expanding or trying to expand their presence within Clarke Quay itself. So it is something that definitely we will look at.

Yi Zhuan Lee: Okay. Is that the final piece of the puzzle? I would say no. It is always a work in progress. I would say, in fact, quite the country with Zouk kind of reaffirm their long-term plans with CQ, and then the recent renovation that they have done is just going to help us put some of the pieces together for next growth when we look at Canninghill completing end of this year and some of the tenants coming through. Just beyond Zouk, actually, some of the tenants that have already been in Clarke Quay itself has also been quite positive in the directions that we are heading, and actually some of them are actually expanding or trying to expand their presence within Clarke Quay itself. So it is something that definitely we will look at.

Speaker #8: It's just going to help us put some of the pieces together for the next growth when we look at CanningHill completing at the end of this year, and some of the tenants coming through.

Speaker #8: And just beyond Zouk, actually, some of the tenants that have already been in Clarke Quay itself have also been quite positive in the directions that we are heading, and actually some of them are expanding their—or trying to expand their—presence within Clarke Quay itself.

Speaker #8: So it's something that we will definitely get. From a numbers perspective, we talk about occupancy, we talk about numbers. Definitely, there's room to improve.

Lee Yi Zhuan: From a numbers perspective, we talk about occupancy, we talk about numbers, definitely there is room to improve, and hopefully next year you can see some of this come true. We are at a very tricky part of the transition in terms of nightlife and daytime trade. Changing the perception takes time. Getting the right trade, building up all these is something you have to invest a bit of time in it, which means that rather than just pulling tenants who are happy to come in regardless of price and rent, we want to really curate the right tenants, at least to anchor the starting point. Once we get that right, the right rents will come through.

Yi Zhuan Lee: From a numbers perspective, we talk about occupancy, we talk about numbers, definitely there is room to improve, and hopefully next year you can see some of this come true. We are at a very tricky part of the transition in terms of nightlife and daytime trade. Changing the perception takes time. Getting the right trade, building up all these is something you have to invest a bit of time in it, which means that rather than just pulling tenants who are happy to come in regardless of price and rent, we want to really curate the right tenants, at least to anchor the starting point. Once we get that right, the right rents will come through.

Speaker #8: And hopefully next year we will kind of see some of this come true. But of course, we are at a very tricky part of the transition in terms of nightlife and daytime trade, so changing the perception takes time.

Speaker #8: Getting the right trades, building up all these, is something they have to invest a bit of time in, which means that, rather than just putting tenants who are happy to come in at, you know, regardless of the price and rent, we want to really curate the right tenants, at least to anchor the starting point.

Speaker #8: So once you get that right, the right brands will come through. And then I think, on the sites, beyond all these leasing, I think what is less visible to a lot of people, unless you actually actively go there, is the amount of effort—the marketing effort—that has been done.

Lee Yi Zhuan: I think on the sites beyond all this leasing, I think what is less visible to a lot of people, unless you actually actively go there, is the amount of effort, the marketing effort has been done to actually do activations. Nowadays, if you go on weekends in the morning, you see crowds there doing exercise, doing the various types of events. They bring pets there. At night, you also start to see that Zouk with the reopening, the queue is pretty long. Hopefully sustains that also. Beyond that, I think you all have probably seen Zouk's news release themselves. Beyond just clubbing destination, they are also looking at corporate events, and they are not just the only tenant there. A few other tenants are also looking at the afternoon corporate crowd. How do they actually tackle those pieces?

Yi Zhuan Lee: I think on the sites beyond all this leasing, I think what is less visible to a lot of people, unless you actually actively go there, is the amount of effort, the marketing effort has been done to actually do activations. Nowadays, if you go on weekends in the morning, you see crowds there doing exercise, doing the various types of events. They bring pets there. At night, you also start to see that Zouk with the reopening, the queue is pretty long. Hopefully sustains that also. Beyond that, I think you all have probably seen Zouk's news release themselves. Beyond just clubbing destination, they are also looking at corporate events, and they are not just the only tenant there. A few other tenants are also looking at the afternoon corporate crowd. How do they actually tackle those pieces?

Speaker #8: To actually do activations. So nowadays, if you go on weekends in the morning, you see crowds there doing exercise, doing their favorite activities, attending events—they even bring pets there.

Speaker #8: At night, you also start to see that Zoop, with the reopening, the queue is pretty long. So hopefully, that sustains as well. And beyond that, I think you all have probably seen Zoop's news release themselves.

Speaker #8: Beyond just being a clubbing destination, they are also located at corporate events, and they are not the only tenant there, right? Actually, a few other tenants are also looking at the afternoon corporate crowds.

Speaker #8: So how do they actually tackle those pieces? So overall, those will continue to build. The second question is with Plaza Sing. Okay. Then it goes back to the cinema space, how we actually repurpose some of these.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Overall, those will continue to build. The second question is with Plaza Sing. Okay. It goes back to the cinema space, how we actually repurpose some of these. For food level 7, we are actually going to do something a lot more experiential dining as well as some of the entertainment. You will see that coming through. I have always shared, looking at just replacing it on its own is not always the hard part of the question, because conversion of cinema, of course, is going to cost a lot of money. On the second part is that when you find a replacement, does it actually add on to the mall or actually takes away? Cinema is not that nobody is going to cinema. It is not that people are not paying rents. They are still paying decent rents, right?

Yi Zhuan Lee: Overall, those will continue to build. The second question is with Plaza Singapura. Okay. It goes back to the cinema space, how we actually repurpose some of these. For food level 7, we are actually going to do something a lot more experiential dining as well as some of the entertainment. You will see that coming through. I have always shared, looking at just replacing it on its own is not always the hard part of the question, because conversion of cinema, of course, is going to cost a lot of money. On the second part is that when you find a replacement, does it actually add on to the mall or actually takes away? Cinema is not that nobody is going to cinema. It is not that people are not paying rents. They are still paying decent rents, right?

Speaker #8: So for the whole of Level Seven, we are actually going to do something a lot more experiential—dining as well as some of the entertainment.

Speaker #8: You'll see that coming through. I've always shared—I mean, looking at just replacing it on its own is not always the hard part of the question, because conversion of cinema, of course, is going to cost a lot of money.

Speaker #8: On the second part, when you find a replacement, does it actually add on to the mall or actually take away? So, cinema is not that—nobody is going to cinema.

Speaker #8: It's not that people are not paying rents. They are still paying decent rents, right? And if the substitute is not going to be better, then there's no point.

Lee Yi Zhuan: If the substitute is not going to be better, then there is no point. We are aware that cinema is on a certain trajectory in terms of the relevance. The question is, at which point do we do the switch over for the different assets that we have? Yeah.

Yi Zhuan Lee: If the substitute is not going to be better, then there is no point. We are aware that cinema is on a certain trajectory in terms of the relevance. The question is, at which point do we do the switch over for the different assets that we have? Yeah.

Speaker #8: So, we are aware that cinema is on a certain trajectory in terms of relevance. The question is: at which point do we do the switchover for the different assets that we have?

Speaker #8: Yeah.

Speaker #6: All right. Can Marvin have the last question?

Allison Chen: All right. Okay, Mervyn can have the last question.

Allison Chen: All right. Okay, Mervin can have the last question.

Mervin Song: Maybe you will allow me to speak more than one. CapitaLand has mentioned that they seeing maybe 9% to 10% drop in electricity cost this year. Next year, they also expecting a 30% drop in electricity cost due to the CapitaLand group buy or bulk purchase. Are we seeing something similar for CICT here as well? On Paragon, when does the Marks & Spencer lease end? For this property itself, where do you see the greatest opportunities? There is upside. Obviously, everybody is focused on metro space. Do you see upside in the medical suites office, basement F&B, kids offering, which I think all of us love.

Mervin Song: Maybe you will allow me to speak more than one. CapitaLand has mentioned that they seeing maybe 9% to 10% drop in electricity cost this year. Next year, they also expecting a 30% drop in electricity cost due to the CapitaLand group buy or bulk purchase. Are we seeing something similar for CICT here as well? On Paragon, when does the Marks & Spencer lease end? For this property itself, where do you see the greatest opportunities? There is upside. Obviously, everybody is focused on metro space. Do you see upside in the medical suites office, basement F&B, kids offering, which I think all of us love.

Speaker #7: Maybe you'll allow me to speak. More than one. CapitaLand has mentioned that they're seeing maybe a 9 to 10 percent drop in electricity cost this year.

Speaker #7: And next year, they are also expecting a 30 percent drop in electricity costs due to the capital and group buy or bulk purchase. Are we seeing something similar for CICT here as well?

Speaker #7: On Paragon, when does the Bulk Expensor lease end? And for this property itself, where do you see the greatest opportunity in terms of upside?

Speaker #7: Obviously, everybody's focused on the metro space. Do you see upside in the medical suites, office, basement, F&B, kids' offerings, which I think all of us love?

Speaker #7: Is there anything else you’d like to mention? Thank you.

Mervin Song: Anything else you want to mention. Thanks.

Mervin Song: Anything else you want to mention. Thanks.

Speaker #8: Yeah. Thanks, Marvin, for letting us talk about our bullish side of the business. So, electricity cost—you're right. I think Clark has talked about the reduction in... I mean, we, in terms of the electricity cost this year, it's going to be some savings compared to last year.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Yeah. Thanks, Mervyn, for letting us talk about our bullish side of the business. So electricity cost, you are right. I think Clara has talked about the reduction in terms of the electricity cost, this year it is going to be some savings compared to last year. It does help drive some of our numbers as well. The reason is because we actually enter into a different hedging contract that allows us to lock in rates that are a bit lower than what they used to be. Next year, as I did mention this earlier as well, we will see some significant savings. I think, in terms of the percentage numbers, I think headline rates will come down to similar levels to what Clara has suggested, because we all procure from the same, and we all get the same rates.

Yi Zhuan Lee: Yeah. Thanks, Mervin, for letting us talk about our bullish side of the business. So electricity cost, you are right. I think Clara has talked about the reduction in terms of the electricity cost, this year it is going to be some savings compared to last year. It does help drive some of our numbers as well. The reason is because we actually enter into a different hedging contract that allows us to lock in rates that are a bit lower than what they used to be. Next year, as I did mention this earlier as well, we will see some significant savings. I think, in terms of the percentage numbers, I think headline rates will come down to similar levels to what Clara has suggested, because we all procure from the same, and we all get the same rates.

Speaker #8: It does help drive some of our numbers as well. And the reason is that we actually enter into a different hedging contract that allows us to lock in rates that are a bit lower than what they used to be.

Speaker #8: And next year, as I did mention this earlier as well, we will see some significant savings. I think, in terms of the percentage numbers, headline rates will come down to similar levels to what Clark has suggested.

Speaker #8: Because we all procure from the same, and we all get the same rates, tariff-wise we will see quite significant drops in terms of our tariff rates.

Lee Yi Zhuan: Tariff-wise, we will see quite significant drops in terms of our tariff rates. Was it up to 30%? Yeah, about. Yeah. We are getting the same rates as them. Yep. Second question was on Marks & Spencer.

Yi Zhuan Lee: Tariff-wise, we will see quite significant drops in terms of our tariff rates. Was it up to 30%? Yeah, about. Yeah. We are getting the same rates as them. Yep. Second question was on Marks & Spencer.

Speaker #8: Was it up to 30 percent? Yeah, about. Yeah, thereabouts. We are getting the same rates as them. Yeah. Oh, second question was on, oh, Marks and Spencer.

Mervin Song: Marks & Spencer just renewed three years. It will be a while before we have a renewal discussion. Yeah.

Mervin Song: Marks & Spencer just renewed three years. It will be a while before we have a renewal discussion. Yeah.

Speaker #8: Marks & Spencer just renewed for three years, so it’ll be a while before we have a renewal discussion. Yeah. But on the upside—the biggest upside from Paragon—was also your related question.

Lee Yi Zhuan: On the upside, biggest upside from Paragon was also your related question. I think the obvious one, obviously, is Metro that everyone is looking at. Whether it is going to be how much upside, we do not know. As I said, but I think the rent is not demanding. As with any reconfiguration, it is not just about the rent uplift, it is also about the downtime. It is also about, because of course, departmental store always takes up the deepest, and they take up a whole space, right? If you need to reconfigure them, you may need to create walkways and all that. You might lose some NLA. We have to look at what is the best way to do it. But we have done this many times, obviously, before, and we have done that relatively successfully at Raffles City when Robinsons left.

Yi Zhuan Lee: On the upside, biggest upside from Paragon was also your related question. I think the obvious one, obviously, is Metro that everyone is looking at. Whether it is going to be how much upside, we do not know. As I said, but I think the rent is not demanding. As with any reconfiguration, it is not just about the rent uplift, it is also about the downtime. It is also about, because of course, departmental store always takes up the deepest, and they take up a whole space, right? If you need to reconfigure them, you may need to create walkways and all that. You might lose some NLA. We have to look at what is the best way to do it. But we have done this many times, obviously, before, and we have done that relatively successfully at Raffles City when Robinsons left.

Speaker #8: I think the obvious one, obviously, is Metro that everyone is looking at. Whether it's going to be—how much upside, we don't know. As I said, it's... but I think the rent is not demanding.

Speaker #8: So, but as with any reconfiguration, it's not just about the rent uplift. It's also about the downtime. It's also about—because, of course, department stores always take up the deepest and they take up a whole space, right?

Speaker #8: So, if you need to reconfigure them, you may need to create walkways and all that. So, you might lose some NLA. So, we have to look at what's the best way to do it.

Speaker #8: But we have done this many times, obviously, before, and we have done that relatively successfully at Raffles City when Robinsons left. So it won't be the first time we are looking at something like that.

Lee Yi Zhuan: It will not be the first time we are looking at something like that. But, yeah. Anyway, we are exploring quite a few options, so hard to tell what is the upside from that without knowing what is the concrete details. But I think outside of Metro, actually the biggest upside I see is actually the medical block because of the healthy rental reversions, which I have mentioned previously as well. It is actually not small because it is actually about 30% of the NLA. The rental reversion actually is quite healthy. It is probably in the double digits compared to the retail spaces. The retail side of the business tends to be quite in line with the rest of our retail space, which is trending about mid-single digits kind of rental reversions, which is quite in line with sales numbers to maintain our occupancy cost. Yeah.

Yi Zhuan Lee: It will not be the first time we are looking at something like that. But, yeah. Anyway, we are exploring quite a few options, so hard to tell what is the upside from that without knowing what is the concrete details. But I think outside of Metro, actually the biggest upside I see is actually the medical block because of the healthy rental reversions, which I have mentioned previously as well. It is actually not small because it is actually about 30% of the NLA. The rental reversion actually is quite healthy. It is probably in the double digits compared to the retail spaces. The retail side of the business tends to be quite in line with the rest of our retail space, which is trending about mid-single digits kind of rental reversions, which is quite in line with sales numbers to maintain our occupancy cost. Yeah.

Speaker #8: But yeah, but anyway, we are exploring quite a few options, so it's hard to tell what's the upside from that without knowing what the concrete details are.

Speaker #8: But I think outside of metro, actually the biggest upside I see is the medical block, because of the healthy rental reversions, which I have mentioned previously as well.

Speaker #8: And it's actually not small because it's actually about 30 percent of the NLA. And the rental reversion actually is quite healthy. It's probably in the double digits compared to the retail spaces, which tends to be the retail side of the business tends to be quite in line with the rest of our retail space, which is trending about, you know, mid single digits kind of rental reversions, which is quite in line with sales numbers to maintain occupancy cost.

Speaker #8: Yeah.

Speaker #6: Okay. Lastly, Junxiang, would you like to share some closing remarks?

Allison Chen: Okay. Lastly, Jun Sang, would you like to share some closing remarks?

Allison Chen: Okay. Lastly, Choon Siang, would you like to share some closing remarks?

Speaker #8: No, thank you very much. I think we had a very good round of discussion, as always. Hope you guys—I think we have a range of property tours after this.

Tan Choon Siang: No, thank you very much. I think it is a very good round of discussion as always. I think we have arranged a property tour after this. We can have a quick tea break. Thank you very much again for all your questions. Please feel free. I think we will hang around, mingle. If you have any more questions, I will be happy to take some of your other questions as well. Yep. Thank you very much.

Choon Siang Tan: No, thank you very much. I think it is a very good round of discussion as always. I think we have arranged a property tour after this. We can have a quick tea break. Thank you very much again for all your questions. Please feel free. I think we will hang around, mingle. If you have any more questions, I will be happy to take some of your other questions as well. Yep. Thank you very much.

Speaker #8: We can have a quick tea break. Thank you very much again for all your questions. Please feel free—I think we will hang around and mingle if you have any more questions.

Speaker #8: I'll be happy to take some of your other questions as well. Yes. Thank you very much.

Allison Chen: Thank you everyone. We will see you soon.

Allison Chen: Thank you everyone. We will see you soon.

Mervin Song: Goodbye.

Operator: Goodbye.

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