Q2 2026 iHeartMedia Inc Earnings Call
Operator: Good afternoon, and welcome to iHeartMedia's Q2 2026 earnings call. All participants are in a listen-only mode. After the speaker's remarks, we will conduct a question-and-answer session. To ask a question at this time, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded. I would now like to turn the call over to Andre Hart, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you. Please go ahead.
Speaker #1: To ask a question at this time, please press star followed by the number 1 on your telephone keypad. As a reminder, this conference call is being recorded.
Speaker #1: I would now like to turn the call over to Andre Hart, Senior Vice President of Investor Relations. Thank you. Please go ahead.
Speaker #2: Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for taking the time to join us for our second quarter 2026 earnings call. Joining me for today's discussion are Bob Bittman, our Chairman and CEO; Rich Bressler, our President and COO; and Mike McGuinness, our CFO.
Andre Hart: Good afternoon, everyone, and thank you for taking the time to join us for our Q2 2026 earnings call. Joining me for today's discussion are Bob Pittman, our Chairman and CEO, Rich Bressler, our President and COO, and Mike McGuinness, our CFO. At the conclusion of our prepared remarks, management will take your questions. In addition to our press release, we have an earnings presentation available on our website that you can use to follow along with our remarks. Please note that this call may include forward-looking statements regarding our financial performance and operating results. These statements are based on management's current expectations, and actual results could differ from what is stated as a result of certain factors identified on today's call and in the company's SEC filings, including our recent 8-K filing. Additionally, during this call, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures.
Speaker #2: At the conclusion of our prepared remarks, management will take your questions. In addition to our press release, we have an earnings presentation available on our website that you can use to follow along with our remarks.
Speaker #2: Please note that this call may include forward-looking statements regarding our financial performance and operating results. These statements are based on management's current expectations, and actual results could differ from what is stated as a result of certain factors identified on today's call and in the company's SEC filings, including our recent 8-K filing.
Speaker #2: Additionally, during this call, we will refer to certain non-GAAP financial measures. Reconciliations between GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings release, earnings presentation, and our SEC filings.
Andre Hart: Reconciliations between GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures are included in our earnings release, earnings presentation, and our SEC filings, which are available in the investor relations section of our website. Now I'll turn the call over to Bob.
Speaker #2: Which are available in the Investor Relations section of our website. And now I'll turn the call over to Bob.
Speaker #3: Thanks, Andre, and good afternoon, everyone. In the second quarter, our consolidated revenue was $977 million up 4.7% compared to the prior year quarter, and above our guidance of up low single digits.
Bob Pittman: Thanks, Andre, and good afternoon, everyone. In Q2, our consolidated revenue was $977 million, up 4.7% compared to the prior year quarter and above our guidance of up low single digits. Excluding the impact of political, our consolidated revenue was up 3.5%. We generated adjusted EBITDA of $152 million in Q2, slightly above the midpoint of our previously provided guidance range of $140 million to $160 million. We generated $46 million of free cash flow in the quarter compared to a negative $13 million free cash flow in the prior year quarter. Significantly, our work in building our digital assets, including podcasting, continues to pay off.
Speaker #3: Excluding the impact of political, our consolidated revenue was up 3.5%. We generated adjusted EBITDA of $152 million in the second quarter, slightly above the midpoint of our previously provided guidance range of $140 million to $160 million.
Speaker #3: We generated $46 million of free cash flow in the quarter compared to a negative $13 million free cash flow in the prior year quarter.
Speaker #3: Significantly, our work in building our digital assets, including podcasting, continues to pay off. This will be the sixth quarter in a row in which the digital audio group adjusted EBITDA is larger than the multi-platform group adjusted EBITDA, and even when we get the multi-platform group back to growth, we expect this trend to continue.
Bob Pittman: This will be the sixth quarter in a row in which the Digital Audio Group adjusted EBITDA is larger than the Multi-Platform Group adjusted EBITDA, and even when we get the Multi-Platform Group back to growth, we expect this trend to continue. Additionally, we continue our drive for efficiencies in all areas of the company using AI and other technology tools. Turning to our individual operating segments, the Digital Audio Group generated Q2 revenue of $364 million, up 12.4% versus prior year, and ahead of our previously provided guidance of up approximately 10%. The Digital Audio Group generated Q2 adjusted EBITDA of $123 million, up 14.5% versus prior year. The adjusted EBITDA margins were 33.8%, and as a reminder, we expect to see the Digital Audio Group's full-year adjusted EBITDA margins to be in the mid-30s.
Speaker #3: Additionally, we continue our drive for efficiencies in all areas of the company, using AI and other technology tools. Turning to our individual operating segments, the Digital Audio Group generated second quarter revenue of $364 million, up 12.4% versus the prior year and ahead of our previously provided guidance of up approximately 10%.
Speaker #3: The digital audio group generated second quarter adjusted EBITDA of $123 million up 14.5% versus prior year. The adjusted EBITDA margins were 33.8%, and as a reminder, we expect to see the digital audio group's full year adjusted EBITDA margins to be in the mid-30s.
Speaker #3: Within the Digital Audio group, our podcast revenue momentum continues and was $162 million for the quarter, up 20.7% compared to prior year of $134 million, and in line with our guidance of up low 20s.
Bob Pittman: Within the Digital Audio Group, our podcast revenue momentum continues and was $162 million for the quarter, up 20.7% compared to prior year of $134 million, and in line with our guidance of up low 20s. In Q2, approximately 50% of our podcasting revenue was again generated by our local markets sales force, which provides an additional vector of growth for podcast revenue and sets us apart from our podcast competitors. Our podcasting adjusted EBITDA margins remained accretive to our total company adjusted EBITDA margins, and we believe we're the most profitable podcasting business in the United States, driven by both having the number one audience in podcasting, as measured by both Podtrac and Triton, and by applying rigorous financial discipline. We built and continue to build our podcast audience by using our unparalleled audience reach in broadcast radio.
Speaker #3: Ending Q2, approximately 50% of our podcasting revenue was again generated by our local markets sales force, which provides an additional vector of growth for podcast revenue and sets us apart from our podcast competitors.
Speaker #3: Our podcasting adjusted EBITDA margins remained accretive to our total company adjusted EBITDA margins, and we believe we're the most profitable podcasting business in the United States, driven by both having the number one audience in podcasting as measured by both PodTrack and Triton, and by applying rigorous financial discipline.
Speaker #3: We built and continue to build our podcast audience by using our unparalleled audience reach and broadcast radio. In addition to driving the audio-only podcast marketplace, those radio assets have also allowed us to develop and drive the new video podcast marketplace—a new and meaningful growth opportunity.
Bob Pittman: In addition to driving the audio-only podcast marketplace, those radio assets have also allowed us to develop and drive the new video podcast marketplace, a new and meaningful growth opportunity. As the number one podcast publisher, we're now producing video versions of many of our own podcasts and distributing them on our iHeartRadio service, as well as on a number of other select podcast platforms. We're also expanding the distribution of our video podcasts into streaming video services, including Netflix and others. In fact, iHeart has become the most successful video podcaster on Netflix, and we're expanding that relationship to now include podcasts from Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson, Lele Pons, and Martha Stewart, as well as The Breakfast Club with Charlamagne becoming the only live daily show on Netflix.
Speaker #3: As the number one podcast publisher, we are now producing video versions of many of our own podcasts and distributing them on our iHeartRadio service, as well as on a number of other select podcast platforms.
Speaker #3: We're also expanding the distribution of our video podcast into streaming video services, including Netflix and others. In fact, iHeart has become the most successful video podcaster on Netflix, and we're expanding that relationship to now include podcasts from Kate Hudson and Oliver Hudson, Lele Pons, and Martha Stewart, as well as The Breakfast Club with Charlamagne becoming the only live daily show on Netflix.
Speaker #3: And we announced this morning that we're bringing six iHeart titles to Disney's Hulu streaming video service, including video episodes of "Hey Jonas" and "Pod Meets World." In the second quarter, digital X podcast revenue grew 6.6% compared to prior year, above our previously provided guidance of up low single digits.
Bob Pittman: And we announced this morning that we're bringing six iHeart titles to Disney's Hulu streaming video service, including video episodes of Hey Jonas! and Pod Meets World. In Q2, digital ex-podcast revenue grew 6.6% compared to prior year, above our previously provided guidance of up low single digits. Turning now to the Multi-Platform Group, which includes our broadcast radio networks and events businesses. Q2 revenue was $536 million, down 1.6% versus prior year and slightly below our guidance range of approximately flat. Excluding the impact of political advertising, Multi-Platform Group revenue was down 2.8%. The Multi-Platform Group's adjusted EBITDA was $59 million, compared to $96 million in the prior year. Like many other companies, we're not immune to macroeconomic uncertainty, and in particular, gas and diesel prices, which have an impact on the entire economy.
Speaker #3: Turning now to the multi-platform group, which includes our broadcast radio, networks, and events businesses. Second quarter revenue was $536 million down 1.6% versus prior year, and slightly below our guidance range of approximately flat.
Speaker #3: Excluding the impact of political advertising, multi-platform group revenue was down 2.8%. The multi-platform group’s adjusted EBITDA was $59 million, compared to $96 million in the prior year.
Speaker #3: Like many other companies, we're not immune to macroeconomic uncertainty, and in particular, gas and diesel prices, which have an impact on the entire economy.
Speaker #3: We believe the revenue of the Multi-Platform Group, and indeed the whole company, was impacted in Q2 by this uncertainty. On the expense side, the non-cash marketing expenses that we discussed in the last few earnings calls drove the majority of our lower Multi-Platform Group adjusted EBITDA in this quarter.
Bob Pittman: We believe the revenue of the Multi-Platform Group, and indeed the whole company, was impacted in Q2 by this uncertainty. On the expense side, the non-cash marketing expenses that we discussed in the last few earnings calls drove the majority of our lower Multi-Platform Group adjusted EBITDA in this quarter. On the consumer side of the Multi-Platform Group business, the company continues to do well. Unlike other traditional media, we have more users of broadcast radio today than we did 20 years ago. Indeed, our broadcast radio now has two times the audience of the largest TV network and four times the audience reach of the largest digital-only ad-supported audio service. As I've said before, we don't have a broadcast radio audience challenge. We have a broadcast radio monetization challenge, which seems counterintuitive given radio's strength with the consumer.
Speaker #3: On the consumer side of the multi-platform group business, the company continues to do well. Unlike other traditional media, we have more users of broadcast radio today than we did 20 years ago.
Speaker #3: Indeed, our broadcast radio now has two times the audience of the largest TV network, and four times the audience reach of the largest digital-only ad-supported audio service.
Speaker #3: As I've said before, we don't have a broadcast radio audience challenge. We have a broadcast radio monetization challenge, which seems counterintuitive given radio's strength with the consumer.
Speaker #3: We recognize that the reason for this is that advertisers are giving preference to services that are within their digital buying platforms. In response, we're now adding our broadcast radio inventory to DSPs, including Amazon, Google, and Yahoo, as well as developing offerings for other digital planning and buying platforms through our Audiograph and Programmatic offerings, and we feel confident that our broadcast radio participation in these digital platforms will significantly improve our radio revenue performance and will help the entire radio industry as well.
Bob Pittman: We recognize that the reason for this is that advertisers are giving preference to services that are within their digital buying platforms. In response, we're now adding our broadcast radio inventory to DSPs, including Amazon, Google, and Yahoo, as well as developing offerings for other digital planning and buying platforms through our AudioGraph and programmatic offerings, and we feel confident that our broadcast radio participation in these digital platforms will significantly improve our radio revenue performance and will help the entire radio industry as well. Turning to the Audio & Media Services group, revenue was $80 million, up 18.8% year over year, driven primarily by the growth of the digital audio and video revenues. Excluding the impact of political revenue, the Audio & Media Services group's revenue was up 10.6%. Adjusted EBITDA was $37 million, up 54.6% compared to the prior year.
Speaker #3: Turning to the audio and media services group, revenue was $80 million up 18.8% year over year, driven primarily by the growth of the digital audio and video revenues.
Speaker #3: Excluding the impact of political revenue, the Audio and Media Services Group's revenue was up 10.6%. Adjusted EBITDA was $37 million, up 54.6% compared to the prior year.
Speaker #3: This segment includes our CATS TV, CATS Radio, and RCS businesses, and has continued to grow adjusted EBITDA over time with a focus on an increasingly meaningful digital business and operating efficiencies.
Bob Pittman: This segment includes our Katz TV, Katz Radio, and RCS businesses and has continued to grow adjusted EBITDA over time with a focus on an increasingly meaningful digital business and operating efficiencies. I also wanted to briefly touch on political advertising, which will be a major driver of adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow for this company in the back half of the year. As a reminder, historically, the vast majority of our political revenue comes in the back half of the year, and the majority of that is in Q4. We continue to believe that this will be a robust midterm election year in terms of generating political revenue. With that, I'll turn it over to Rich.
Speaker #3: I also wanted to briefly touch on political advertising, which we a major driver adjusted EBITDA and free cash flow for this company in the back half of the year.
Speaker #3: As a reminder, historically, the vast majority of our political revenue comes in the back half of the year and the majority of that is in Q4.
Speaker #3: We continue to believe that this will be a robust midterm election year in terms of generating political revenue. And with that, I'll turn it over to Rich.
Speaker #2: Thank you, Bob, and good afternoon. Our Q2 2026 consolidated revenue was up 4.7% compared to the prior-year quarter, and above our guidance of up low single digits.
Rich Bressler: Thank you, Bob, and good afternoon. Our Q2 2026 consolidated revenue was up 4.7% compared to the prior year quarter and above our guidance of up low single digits. Although we saw some softness that appeared to correlate with the conflict in the Middle East and the associated economic impacts, we were able to slightly beat our Q2 revenue guidance and the midpoint of our adjusted EBITDA guidance. Let me provide you with some additional detail on our advertising revenue performance in the second quarter. As a reminder, one of our strengths is our diversified advertising revenues. There is no advertising category greater than about 5% of our total advertising revenue, no individual advertiser that is more than 2% of our total advertising revenue. In the second quarter, the largest category gainers in terms of absolute dollars were political, gambling, computers, electronics and appliances, and professional services.
Speaker #2: Although we saw some softness that appeared to correlate with the conflict in the Middle East and the associated economic impacts, we were able to slightly beat our Q2 revenue guidance and the midpoint of our adjusted EBITDA guidance.
Speaker #2: Let me provide you with some additional detail on our advertising revenue performance in the second quarter. As a reminder, one of our strengths is our diversified advertising revenues.
Speaker #2: There is no advertising category greater than about 5% of our total advertising revenue and no individual advertiser that is more than 2% of our total advertising revenue.
Speaker #2: In the second quarter, the largest category gainers in terms of absolute dollars were political, gambling, computer electronics, and appliances, and professional services, and the four categories that declined the most in terms of absolute dollars were telecom, financial services, auto, and food and beverage.
Rich Bressler: The four categories that declined the most in terms of absolute dollars were telecom, financial services, auto, and food and beverage. In the second quarter, our five largest advertising categories in terms of absolute dollars were home building and improvement, financial services, healthcare, auto, and professional services. Our consolidated direct operating expenses increased 2.4% for the quarter. This increase was primarily driven by higher variable content costs, including higher third-party digital costs related to the increase in digital revenues. Our consolidated SG&A expenses increased 11.8% for the quarter. This increase was primarily driven by expenses related to our non-cash co-marketing partnerships. We generated second-quarter GAAP operating income of $35.5 million, compared to GAAP operating income of $35.4 million in the prior year quarter.
Speaker #2: And in the second quarter, our five largest advertising categories in terms of absolute dollars were home building and improvement, financial services, healthcare, auto, and professional services.
Speaker #2: Our consolidated direct operating expenses increased 2.4% for the quarter. This increase was primarily driven by higher variable content costs including higher third-party digital costs related to the increase in digital revenues.
Speaker #2: Our consolidated SG&A expenses increased 11.8% for the quarter. This increase was primarily driven by expenses related to our non-cash co-marketing partnerships. We generated second quarter gap operating income of $35.5 million compared to gap operating income of $35.4 million in the prior year quarter.
Speaker #2: We generated adjusted EBITDA of $152 million in the second quarter, slightly above the midpoint of our previously provided guidance range of $140 million to $160 million.
Rich Bressler: We generated adjusted EBITDA of $152 million in the second quarter, slightly above the midpoint of our previously provided guidance range of $140 to $160 million. As we have previously discussed, some of the investment in our proprietary audience database, which is the foundation of our broadcast, programmatic, and AudioGraph offerings, takes the form of non-cash co-marketing partnerships to drive engagement with the iHeartRadio digital service. We continue to view these marketing activities as critical for the success of our AudioGraph and broadcast programmatic initiatives, and as a reminder, this is all in support of our efforts to make our broadcast inventory as easy for our advertising partners to transact as our digital inventory. This is one of the important steps in returning the Multiplatform Group back to adjusted EBITDA growth.
Speaker #2: As we have previously discussed, some of the investment in our proprietary audience database which is the foundation of our broadcast programmatic and audiograph offerings takes the form of non-cash co-marketing partnerships to drive engagement with the iHeartMedia digital service.
Speaker #2: We continue to view these marketing activities as critical for the success of our audio, graph, and broadcast programmatic initiatives. And as a reminder, this is all in support of our efforts to make our broadcast inventory as easy for our advertising partners to transact as our digital inventory.
Speaker #2: This is one of the important steps in returning the multi-platform group back to adjusted EBITDA growth. As discussed on the Q1 call, we have continued these partnerships in Q2, but they will start to decrease in the second half of the year.
Rich Bressler: As discussed on the Q1 call, we have continued these partnerships in Q2, but they will start to decrease in the second half of the year. As we've discussed before, all the revenue and expense associated with each partnership has zero impact on adjusted EBITDA over time. As a reminder, the majority of this revenue expense impacts the Multi-Platform Group segment. Turning now to the performance of our operating segments. In the second quarter, the Digital Audio Group's revenue was $364 million, up 12.4% year over year, and ahead of our previously provided guidance of up approximately 10%. The Digital Audio Group's adjusted EBITDA was $123 million, up 14.5% to prior year. As Bob mentioned, this is the sixth quarter in a row in which our Digital Audio Group adjusted EBITDA is larger than our Multi-Platform Group adjusted EBITDA.
Speaker #2: As we've discussed before, all the revenue and expenses associated with each partnership has zero impact on adjusted EBITDA over time, and as a reminder, the majority of this revenue and expense impacts the multi-platform group segment.
Speaker #2: Turning out to the performance of our operating segments. In the second quarter, the digital audio group's revenue was $364 million, year, and ahead of our previously provided guidance of up approximately 10%.
Speaker #2: The Digital Audio group's adjusted EBITDA was $123 million, up 14.5% from the prior year. And as Bob mentioned, this is the sixth quarter in a row in which our Digital Audio group adjusted EBITDA is larger than our Multi-Platform group adjusted EBITDA.
Speaker #2: Our Q2 adjusted EBITDA margins were 33.8% compared to 33.2% in the prior year. Within the digital audio group, our podcasting revenue was $162 million, which grew 20.7% year over year and in line with our guidance we provided of up low 20s.
Rich Bressler: Our Q2 adjusted EBITDA margins were 33.8% compared to 33.2% in the prior year. Within the Digital Audio Group, our podcasting revenue was $162 million, which grew 20.7% year over year, and in line with our guidance we provided of up low 20s. Our second quarter Digital Audio Group ex-podcasting revenue grew 6.6% year over year to $202 million. Turning now to the Multi-Platform Group. Revenue was $536 million, down 1.6% compared to prior year, slightly below our guidance range of approximately flat. Adjusted EBITDA was $59 million, down from $96 million in the prior year quarter. Turning to the Audio & Media Services Group, which includes Katz TV, which as you know has a much bigger revenue swing in political years. Revenue was $80 million, up 18.8% year over year, driven primarily by the growth of the digital audio and video revenues.
Speaker #2: Our second quarter Digital Audio Group ex-podcasting revenue grew 6.6% year over year, to $202 million. Turning now to the Multi-Platform Group, revenue was $536 million, down 1.6% compared to the prior year, slightly below our guidance range of approximately flat.
Speaker #2: Adjusted EBITDA was $59 million, down from $96 million in the prior year quarter. Turning to the Audio and Media Services Group, which includes Katz TV—which, as you know, has a much bigger revenue swing in political years—revenue was $80 million, up 18.8% year over year, driven primarily by the growth of digital audio and video revenues.
Speaker #2: Excluding the impact of political revenue, the Audio and Media Services Group's revenue was up 10.6%. Adjusted EBITDA was $37 million, up 54.6% compared to the prior year.
Rich Bressler: Excluding the impact of political revenue, the Audio & Media Services Group's revenue was up 10.6%. Adjusted EBITDA was $37 million, up 54.6% compared to the prior year. In the second quarter, our company's free cash flow was $46 million, compared to a negative $13 million in the prior year quarter. In fact, the strong free cash flow in this quarter gives us additional confidence about our free cash flow for the full year. A political year like this also helps drive our free cash flow because political advertisers pay upfront. At quarter end, our net debt was approximately $4.7 billion. Our total liquidity was $457 million, and our cash balance was $174 million, which included $125 million borrowed under the ABL facility. We expect to pay down that balance by the end of 2026 with our free cash flow generation.
Speaker #2: In the second quarter, our company's free cash flow was $46 million, compared to negative $13 million in the prior year quarter. In fact, the strong free cash flow this quarter gives us additional confidence about our free cash flow for the full year.
Speaker #2: And a political year like this also helps drive our free cash flow, because political advertisers pay upfront. At quarter end, our net debt was approximately $4.7 billion, our total liquidity was $457 million, and our cash balance was $174 million, which includes $125 million borrowed under the AEBL facility. We expect to pay down that balance by the end of 2026 with our free cash flow generation.
Speaker #2: As noted in our prior call on May 1st, we repaid the $51.2 million remaining balances of our 6 3/8% notes, as well as the term loan and incremental term loan, fully retiring those stubbed facilities.
Rich Bressler: As noted on our prior call on 1 May, we repaid the $51.2 million remaining balances of our 6.375% Senior Notes, as well as the term loan and incremental term loan, fully retiring those stub facilities. Additionally, we are pleased to report that this month we amended and extended our current ABL facility. We maintain both the current $450 million size of the facility and the pricing of the facility at its current interest rates, and we extended the maturity date from 17 May 2027 to 30 January 2029. Let me now turn to our guidance for the third quarter and full year. For the third quarter, we expect to generate adjusted EBITDA between $180 million and $220 million. We expect our consolidated revenue to be up mid-single digits compared to prior year.
Speaker #2: Additionally, we are pleased to report that this month we amended and extended our current AEBL facility. We maintained both the current $450 million size of the facility and the pricing of the facility at its current interest rates, and we extended the maturity date from May 17, 2027, to January 30, 2029.
Speaker #2: Let me now turn to our guidance for the third quarter and full year. For the third quarter, we expect to generate adjusted EBITDA between $180 million and $220 million.
Speaker #2: We expect our consolidated revenue to be up mid-single digits compared to prior year. We're still closing July, but we expect revenue to be up low single digits year over year.
Rich Bressler: We're still closing July, but we expect revenue to be up low single digits year over year. Turning to the individual segments, we expect the Digital Audio Group's revenue to be up in the low teens year over year, with podcast revenue expected to be up approximately 20% and digital ex-podcast to be up mid-single digits. We expect the Multi-Platform Group's revenue to be approximately flat compared to prior year. We expect the Audio & Media Services Group's revenue to be up approximately 20% year over year. Turning to the full year, we are reaffirming our full-year adjusted EBITDA guidance of $800 million and our free cash flow guide of $200 million, predicated on some improvement in the macroeconomic and advertising environments, especially in Q4, and the expected strong performance of political. Embedded in our adjusted EBITDA guidance are the following.
Speaker #2: Turning to the individual segments, we expect the digital audio group's revenue to be up in the low teens year over year, with podcast revenue expected to be up approximately 20% and digital ex-podcast to be up mid-single digits.
Speaker #2: We expect the multi-platform group's revenue to be approximately flat compared to prior year. We expect the audio and media services group's revenue to be up approximately 20% year over year.
Speaker #2: Turning to the full year, we are reaffirming our full year adjusted EBITDA guidance of $800 million, and our free cash flow guide of $200 million, predicated on some improvement in the macroeconomic and advertising environments especially in Q4, and the expected strong performance of political.
Speaker #2: Embedded in our adjusted EBITDA guidance are the following: we expect to generate approximately $200 million of overall programmatic revenue in 2026, up approximately 50% from $135 million in 2025, and as a reminder, we expect our broadcast programmatic revenue trajectory to be similar to that of the growth we experienced in the podcasting revenue.
Rich Bressler: We expect to generate approximately $200 million of overall programmatic revenue in 2026, up approximately 50% from $135 million in 2025. As a reminder, we expect our broadcast programmatic revenue trajectory to be similar to that of the growth we experienced in the podcasting revenue. We expect podcasting revenue to continue its strong momentum. We expect this to be a robust midterm election year in terms of generating political revenue, and the vast majority of our political revenue occurs in Q3 and Q4. Our adjusted EBITDA guidance also includes the benefit of our cost savings programs. Let me provide some additional inputs embedded in our free cash flow guidance. Interest expense will be approximately $440 million. Minimal cash taxes this year and for the next few years, as long as the current tax laws are in effect.
Speaker #2: We expect podcasting revenue to continue its strong momentum. We expect this to be a robust midterm election year in terms of generating political revenue, and the vast majority of our political revenue occurs in Q3 and Q4.
Speaker #2: And our adjusted EBITDA guidance also includes the benefit of our cost savings programs. Let me provide some additional inputs embedded in our free cash flow guidance.
Speaker #2: Interest expense will be approximately $440 million. Minimal cash taxes this year and for the next few years as long as the current tax laws are in effect, this is a great outcome and will help us avoid approximately $150 to $200 million of cash taxes over the next three years.
Rich Bressler: This is a great outcome and will help us avoid approximately $150 to $200 million of cash taxes over the next three years. Capital expenditures are expected to be approximately $90 million. Cash restructuring expenses will be approximately $50 million. We expect our net leverage ratio at the end of 2026 to be in the mid-fives, which will be more than a full turn improvement year-over-year. Now, we will turn it over to the operator to take your questions. Thank you.
Speaker #2: Capital expenditures are expected to be approximately $90 million. Cash restructuring expenses will be approximately $50 million. We expect our net leverage ratio at the end of 2026 to be in the mid-fives, which will be more than a full-turn improvement year over year.
Speaker #2: Now we will turn it over to the operator to take your questions. Thank you.
Speaker #1: As a reminder to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. Our first question comes from Steven Laschik from Goldman Sachs.
Operator: As a reminder, to ask a question, please press star followed by the number one on your telephone keypad. Our first question comes from Steven Cahall from Goldman Sachs. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker #1: Please go ahead, your line is open.
Speaker #3: Hey, great. Thanks for taking the questions. Bob Rich, I was curious—with just a few months' time from now, with the midterm elections coming up—I was wondering if you could maybe speak a little bit more about your go-to-market strategy, as well as how activity is building on the political front going into the November cycle.
Steven Cahall: Hey, great. Thanks for taking the questions. Bob, Rich, I was curious, with just a few months' time from now, the midterm elections coming up, I was curious if you could maybe speak a little bit more about your go-to-market strategy, as well as how activity is building on the political front, going into the November cycle. I think two cycles ago, in and around the midterms, you did about $130 million of political revenues. Just curious how you're looking at the outlook for this year.
Speaker #3: I think two cycles ago, in and around the midterms, you did about $130 million of political revenues. Just curious how you're looking at the outlook for this year.
Speaker #4: I think we think it's shaping up to be a pretty big political year, some people are saying it may be as big as the presidential year as opposed to a midterm.
Bob Pittman: I think, we think it's shaping up to be a pretty big political year. Some people are saying it may be as big as the presidential year as opposed to a midterm. Yet, yet to be seen, although the early indications are it's probably performing at that level. Our go-to-market is be in touch with everybody from candidates to PACs, to everyone else associated with the campaigns that can make a decision, and stay on top of it, both at a local level and the national level.
Speaker #4: Yet, debt to be seen, although the early indications are it's probably performing at that level. Our go-to-market is being in touch with everybody, from candidates to PACs.
Speaker #4: To everyone else associated with the campaigns that can make a decision: stay on top of it, both at a local level and at the national level.
Speaker #2: You know, and the one other data point I might just add, if you the last couple of days or last week you saw a lot of TV broadcasters come out and they talked about a very strong political numbers and that historically and this year should be no different votes very well.
Rich Bressler: You know, and the one other data point I might just add, if you, the last couple of days or last week, you saw a lot of TV broadcasters come out, and they talked about very strong political numbers and that historically, and this year should be no different, bodes very well. As the inventory starts to shrink there and they sell off a lot of their inventory, broadcast radio tends to be a big beneficiary of that.
Speaker #2: So as the inventory starts to shrink, and they sell off a lot of their inventory, broadcast radio tends to be a big beneficiary of that.
Speaker #3: Great. Thank you for that. And then maybe separately, spoke a good bit about the opportunities in video podcasting. In the prepared, so just wondering if you could speak a little bit more about the Disney Hulu podcast partnership from today and then would be curious how that approach with Disney is maybe either different or similar to the approach that you're taking with Netflix.
Steven Cahall: Great. Thank you for that. Then maybe separately, spoke a good bit about the opportunities in video podcasting in the prepared. Just wondering if you could speak a little bit more about The Walt Disney Company-Hulu podcast partnership from today, and then would be curious how that approach with The Walt Disney Company is maybe either different or similar to the approach that you're taking with Netflix, and then ultimately looking out here over the next couple of years, how you see both of these relationships evolving.
Speaker #3: And then ultimately, looking out here over the next couple of years, how you see both of these relationships evolving.
Speaker #4: Well, look, I think it's both Netflix and Hulu, we're trying to meet their needs. So we're crafting deals that work for them and their overall program strategy, as you know, Netflix has taken the breakfast club, Charlemagne in the morning, and it's turned it into a live daily show.
Bob Pittman: Well, look, I think it's both Netflix and Hulu, we're trying to meet their needs, so we're crafting deals that work for them and their overall program strategy. As you know, Netflix has taken The Breakfast Club, Charlamagne in the morning, and has turned it into a live daily show. That was sort of unexpected when we went into this, but it's how the relationship evolves as we find opportunities. I suspect with Hulu, we'll see the same thing, that as we get in with them and they see how it's performing, we will figure out how we craft the right relationship with them. Then obviously, there are other people that are carrying video podcasts as well, and we continue to have discussions there as well.
Speaker #4: That was sort of unexpected when we went into this, but it's how the relationship evolves as we find opportunities. I suspect with Hulu we'll see the same thing that as we get in with them and they see how it's performing, we will figure out how we craft the right relationship with them and then obviously there are other people that are carrying video podcasts as well and we continue to have discussions there as well.
Speaker #3: Great. Thank you very much.
Steven Cahall: Great. Thank you very much.
Speaker #1: Our next question comes from Aaron Watts from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Operator: Our next question comes from Arin Watts from Deutsche Bank. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker #5: Hi, thanks for having me on. Two questions for me. On advertising, if we strip away some of the movement due to trade and barter, can you talk a bit more about the health of the underlying ad environment as we roll from Q2 into the back half of the year?
Arin Watts: Hi. Thanks for having me on. Two questions from me. On advertising, if we strip away some of the movement due to trade and barter, can you talk a bit more about the health of the underlying ad environment as we roll from Q2 into the back half of the year? Is there anything you are seeing that gives you confidence that there will be some improvement as we close out the year?
Speaker #5: And is there anything you're seeing that gives you confidence that there'll be some improvement as we close out the year?
Speaker #4: Well, there can't be any more uncertainty, that's for sure. So we are baking that in. But actually, I've been sort of surprised, with all the uncertainty in the marketplace, how resilient the ad market has been.
Bob Pittman: Well, there cannot be any more uncertainty, that is for sure. So we are baking that in. I actually, I have been sort of surprised with all the uncertainty in the marketplace, how resilient the ad market has been. There is a body of thought which says, "Hey, this is the new normal, everybody has got to sell their products, they have got to build their brands, they cannot let that get in the way of it." I think we are seeing ample evidence of that. Certainly, there are businesses that are being hit by the high cost of diesel and fuel and other important products for them. There are also businesses that are immune from it and see this as an opportunity.
Speaker #4: There's a body of thought which says, hey, this is the new normal and everybody's got to sell their products and they got to build their brands and they can't let that get in the way of it.
Speaker #4: And I think we're seeing ample evidence of that. Certainly, there are businesses that are being hit by the high cost of diesel and fuel, and other important products for them.
Speaker #4: But there are also businesses that are immune from it. And see this as an opportunity. So I think on the whole, we're sort of cautiously optimistic about the second half of the year and in talking to advertisers, we sort of sense that.
Bob Pittman: I think on the whole, we're sort of cautiously optimistic about the second half of the year and in talking to advertisers, we sort of sense that. I think if you see some of the discussions from the agency front, you're sort of seeing the same messaging, which is what we're hearing from them directly as well. I think we again, we have to give people a reason why if they spend a dollar on advertising, they get more than a dollar back on their bottom line. It's all about return on investment. I think if we just sort of stick to that and not be distracted by it, is probably our best strategy and the one we're going with. I think the other piece of it is really adding the AudioGraph and the programmatic components for our broadcast radio.
Speaker #4: I think if you see some of the discussions from the agency front, you're sort of seeing the same messaging, which is what we're hearing from them directly as well.
Speaker #4: So I think, again, we have to give people a reason why, if they spend a dollar on advertising, they get more than a dollar back on their bottom line.
Speaker #4: And it's all about return on investment. So I think if we just sort of stick to that and not be distracted by it, it's probably our best strategy and the one we're going with.
Speaker #4: And I think the other piece of it is really adding the audio graph and the programmatic components for our broadcast radio, because again, as I mentioned in our script, it's counterintuitive that broadcast radio is so incredibly strong with the consumer and by the way, in all measurements, delivers extraordinarily strong results for advertisers.
Bob Pittman: Because again, as I mentioned in our script, it's counterintuitive that broadcast radio is so incredibly strong with the consumer. By the way, in all measurements, delivers extraordinarily strong results for advertisers. That's the slowest revenue stream we have. Again, we think that's because the advertisers want everything to fit sort of within that digital buying construct. I think the AudioGraph and programmatic will give us that, and we're rolling it out to DSPs, but as you know, there are other buying platforms emerging as well, and we fully intend to service those as well.
Speaker #4: And that's the slowest revenue stream we have. Again, we think that's because the advertisers want everything to fit sort of within that digital buying construct.
Speaker #4: And so I think the audio graph and programmatic will give us that. And we're rolling it out to DSPs, but as you know, there are other buying platforms emerging as well, and we fully intend to service those as well.
Speaker #2: You know, and the one piece I may just add, excuse me, Aaron, to what Bob just said is the one thing you do see in these environments is advertisers which we've been the beneficiary of, beneficiary of, excuse me, of their go-to partners and overall partners that they have out there.
Rich Bressler: You know, the one piece I may just add, excuse me, Arin, to what Bob just said is, the one thing you do see in these environments is advertisers, which we've been the beneficiary of, excuse me, looking to maybe reduce the number of their go-to partners and overall partners that they have out there. Because of our ability on our Multi-Platform Group between our broadcast and podcasting and streaming and events, they can meet a lot of their needs coming to us. Also the aspects of measurability become critically important to be able to deliver measurable results. As Bob talked about getting the right ROI, and now that we can do that with broadcast and our digital assets. We're just very well-suited to navigate this environment, the best we've ever been.
Speaker #2: And because of our ability on our multi-platform—between our broadcast and podcasting and streaming and events—they can meet a lot of their needs coming to us.
Speaker #2: And also, the aspects of measurability become critically important to be able to deliver measurable results. As Bob talked about, getting the right ROI—and now that we can do that with broadcast and our digital assets—we're just very well suited to navigate this environment, the best we've ever been.
Speaker #5: Okay. That's really helpful context. Thank you for that. If I could ask just one more question and maybe this is pointed at you, Rich, but based on your third quarter guidance, it implies a very robust fourth quarter in order to achieve the 800 million full year.
Arin Watts: Okay. That's really helpful context. Thank you for that. If I could ask just one more question, and maybe this is pointed at you, Rich, but based on your Q3 guidance, it implies a very robust Q4 in order to achieve the $800 million full year target. If I think all the way back to the Q4 of 2022, the last midterm election, I think you guys did $315 million of adjusted EBITDA, and this year you're suggesting will be better. Can you just talk a little bit more about some of the components that go into that, be it core advertising, the political you had just discussed, barter impact easing, cost savings, just the various elements that you see going into helping us bridge that $800 million target for the year?
Speaker #5: Target. If I think all the way back to the fourth quarter of 2022, the last midterm election, I think you guys did 315 million of EBITDA.
Speaker #5: And this year, you're suggesting we'll be better. So can you just talk a little bit more about some of the components that go into that—be it core advertising, the political you had just discussed, barter impact seizing, cost savings—just the various elements that you see going into helping us bridge that $800 million target for the year.
Speaker #2: Well, there's a lot in that question. Maybe I'll start, and then Bob can jump in. And also, by the way, one of the reasons we go through what I mentioned during my remarks is kind of what's embedded in there.
Rich Bressler: Well, there's a lot in that question. Maybe I'll start and then Bob could jump in. Also, by the way, one of the reasons we go through in what I mentioned during my remarks is kind of what's embedded in there. First of all, we talked about political. Remember, we're about where we were in 2024 on political in terms of revenue. As we all know, this is a non-presidential political year. Again, you heard, I mentioned this just briefly a second ago, looking at what all the TV companies said and the strength that they're seeing from political, and we expect to be a beneficiary of that, and that has historically proven out true. So strong political. The second thing is if you look at our cost estimates and all of our cost programs that have rolled in, they're all in place now.
Speaker #2: First of all, we've talked about political. Remember, this is where we were in 2024 on political in terms of revenue. And as we all know, this is a non-presidential political year.
Speaker #2: And again, you heard the, I mentioned this just briefly a second ago, looking at where all the TV companies said and the strength that they're seeing from political.
Speaker #2: And we expect to be a beneficiary of that, and that is historically proven not true. So, strong political. The second thing is, if you look at our cost estimates and all of our cost programs that have rolled in, they're all in place now.
Speaker #2: So you get the full benefit of all those cost programs there. And that is what we just talked a little bit about in terms of the advertising environment.
Rich Bressler: So you get the full benefit of all those cost programs there. Then we just talked a little bit about in terms of the advertising environment. Yes, there's a lot of macroeconomic areas that we're all dealing with out there, and that's why one of the things we said embedded in our guidance, is that we get some more stability down there. But just remember, one of the things we have is no advertising category is greater than 5% of our advertising. No individual advertiser is greater than 2%. So that diversity really plays into our hands. Then you talk about, we spent a fair amount of time talking about AudioGraph and the ability now that we are bringing to the marketplace, the ability to put our broad different buyers to buy our broadcast inventory the way they buy our digital inventory.
Speaker #2: Yes, there's a lot of macro economic areas that we're all dealing with out there. And that's why one of the things we said embedded in our guidance is that we get some more stability down there.
Speaker #2: But just remember, one of the things we have is less than—no advertising category is greater than 5% of our advertising, and no individual advertiser is greater than 2%.
Speaker #2: So that diversity really plays into our hands. And then you talk about—we spent a fair amount of time talking about AudioGraph and the ability now that we are bringing to the marketplace, the ability to put our broadcast for buyers and to buy our broadcast inventory the way they buy our digital inventory.
Speaker #2: Bob mentioned being in DSPs, working directly with the agencies. As a reminder, we're going to be in the Amazon DSP. At the beginning of this year in the fourth quarter, Amazon is also one of our biggest advertisers.
Rich Bressler: Bob mentioned being in DSPs, working directly with the agencies. As a reminder, we're going to be in the Amazon DSP at the beginning of this year in the Q4. Amazon is also one of our biggest advertisers as a company. Then we just talked about, you asked, Bob was asking, we had some questions in talking about the opportunity on video podcasting out there. Yes, we have Netflix, we have The Walt Disney Company Hulu announcement, and those are all incremental opportunities because if you look at those opportunities that are there, and we just reported 20.7% of revenue growth for podcasting. So that shows on just the audio side. So that shows no sign of abating.
Speaker #2: As a company, and then we just talked about, you asked Bob was asked, we asked some questions in talking about the opportunity on video podcasting out there.
Speaker #2: Yes, we have Netflix, we have the Disney-Hulu announcement, and those are all incremental opportunities. Because if you look at those opportunities that are there—and we just reported 20.7% revenue growth for podcasting.
Speaker #2: So that shows on just the audio side. So that shows no sign of abating. So I think when you look at all those pieces in there, yes, you kind of do the math and you look at that side, okay, you'll come to this number for Q4.
Rich Bressler: So I think when you look at all those pieces in there, yes, you kind of do the math and you look at that and say, "Okay, you'll come to this number for Q4 compared to other Q4s that we have." But what I would do is just take a step back and we are not the same company, in terms of the assets we have, the ad technology we have, and how we're going to market and execute.
Speaker #2: Compared to other Q4s that we have. But what I do is just take a step back, and we are not the same company in terms of the assets we have, the ed technology we have, and how we're going to market and execute it.
Speaker #5: Well, look, if I could just add a couple of things—you can tell this is an area we've had a lot of internal discussion about, and we spend a lot of time analyzing it.
Bob Pittman: Well, look, if I could just add a couple of things. As you can tell, this is an area we've had a lot of internal discussion about and we've spent a lot of time analyzing. Rich talked about the TV in a big political year, pushes out, it gets sold out, they got to go to radio, but it also pushes out other advertisers. There's no room for them. As a matter of fact, toward the end of that cycle, almost all the advertising on TV is political advertising. It's got to go somewhere, and people still have to sell their products. Radio has historically benefited from that. Actually in 2022, which was a very strong political year, we did see indeed that happening, and we're the beneficiary. So that's embedded here.
Speaker #5: But Rich talked about the TV in a big political year — it pushes out to get sold out. They have to go to radio. But it also pushes out other advertisers.
Speaker #5: And there's no room for them. As a matter of fact, toward the end of that cycle, almost all the advertising on TV is political advertising.
Speaker #5: It's got to go somewhere, and people still have to sell their products. Radio has historically benefited from that, and actually in '22—which was a very strong political year—we did see indeed that happening.
Speaker #5: And we're the beneficiary, so that's embedded here. I think the other thing you see is, in a year like this with uncertainty, certainly we're seeing advertisers saving some money, holding some money back.
Bob Pittman: I think the other thing you see is in a year like this with uncertainty, certainly we're seeing advertisers saving some money, holding some money back. If at the end of the year, the economy is looking like the uncertainty's leaving, it's getting a little more stable, you'll generally see that express itself in December. So our hope is that some of the money that we've missed first part of the year because of the uncertainty shows up at the back end. Then the final thing is, I think once you get past the midterm, I think it's going to be a very positive impact for sort of the economy, if you will, in terms of the uncertainty leaving it.
Speaker #5: If at the end of the year the economy is looking like the uncertainties leaving, it's getting a little more stable, you'll generally see that express itself in December.
Speaker #5: So our hope is that some of the money that we’ve missed the first part of the year because of the uncertainty shows up in the back end.
Speaker #5: And then the final thing is, I think once you get past the midterm, I think it's going to be a very positive impact for, sort of, the economy—if you will—in terms of the uncertainty leaving it.
Arin Watts: That's extremely helpful. Thank you both.
Speaker #5: That's extremely helpful. Thank you both.
Speaker #2: Thank you.
Rich Bressler: Thank you.
Speaker #1: Our next question comes from Patrick Scholl from Barrington Research. Please go ahead, your line is open.
Operator: Our next question comes from Patrick Sholl from Barrington Research. Please go ahead. Your line is open.
Speaker #6: Hi, thanks for taking the question. On podcast, as you've delivered more of these podcasts or partnered with more video distributors to distribute your podcast, I'm just kind of curious on any sort of impact that's had on the advertiser interest on the audio side or what you're seeing in just in terms of the overall listenership.
Patrick Sholl: Hi, thanks for taking the question. On podcasts, as you have delivered more of these podcasts to, or partnered with more video distributors to distribute your podcast, I am just curious on any sort of impact that has had on the advertiser interest on the audio side, or what you are seeing in just in terms of the overall listenership.
Speaker #3: Yeah, I think it is additive. We find that probably less than 5% of the people are video podcast consumers only. And the biggest category, obviously, is audio only.
Bob Pittman: Yeah. I think it is additive. We find that probably less than 5% of the people are video podcast consumers only. The biggest category, obviously, is audio only. They go, "What? A picture on podcasting?" But I think when people are in a video environment, and can look at something, they often will. Sometimes they will do both. They are basically listening, but when somebody says, "Look at this thing," they will look up at the screen or look at their screen to see what it is. So we think the two work very well together. What we think video is doing for us is, it is putting podcasting into a video environment. Which at first, we said, hey, the story of podcasting is we are filling up those spots where you cannot look at video.
Speaker #3: They go, "What?" The picture on podcasting. But I think when people are in a video environment and can look at something, they often will.
Speaker #3: Sometimes they'll do both. They're basically listening, but when somebody says, look at this thing, they'll look up the screen or look at their screen to see what it is.
Speaker #3: So we think the two work very well together. What we think video is doing for us is it's putting podcasting into a video environment, which at first we said, hey, the story of podcasting is we're filling up those spots where you can't look at video.
Speaker #3: And now podcasting strong enough that actually can compete with video. And that we can put it in that environment too. That not only helps audience, but it also helps revenue.
Bob Pittman: Now, podcasting is strong enough that it actually can compete with video, and that we can put it in that environment, too. That not only helps audience, but it also helps revenue. As you know, video comes with a really nice CPM, premium pricing. So nothing bad about it. The good news about video today as we do video podcasts is the costs are not very much compared to doing full-on TV production. So again, all those things work in our favor. Again, we think this is opening up a new marketplace. It is not a transformation marketplace at all.
Speaker #3: And as you know, video comes with a really nice CPM, premium pricing. So nothing bad about it. And the good news about video today, as we do video podcasts, is the costs are not very much, compared to doing sort of full-on TV production.
Speaker #3: So again, all those things work in our favor. And again, we think this is opening up a new marketplace it's not a transformation marketplace at all.
Speaker #6: Okay, thank you. And then, just on the ad category trends, is there any sort of breakout between advertiser categories that were, I guess, more likely to adopt some of the programmatic buying efforts that you guys have been working on?
Patrick Sholl: Okay. Thank you. On the ad category trends, was there any sort of breakout between advertiser categories that were, I guess, more likely to adopt some of the programmatic buying efforts that you guys have been working on?
Speaker #3: I don't think we.
Bob Pittman: I don't think we-
Speaker #2: I don't think it's really about advertising categories per se. You got to remember, just to take a step back, why did we build out our programmatic and audio graph efforts in terms of putting our broadcast inventory into those systems?
Rich Bressler: I don't think it's really about advertising categories per se. Again, remember, just to take a step back, why did we build out our programmatic and AudioGraph efforts in terms of putting our broadcast inventory into those systems? As Bob mentioned in his remarks, overwhelmingly, you look at the resiliency of our medium. We said we've got the highest listening in 20 years. You look at the engagement that we had. So we don't have a challenge in terms of our listeners. At the same time, we had to meet the advertising world, the way they want to transact, and that they could plan out, monitor, and measure campaigns. We need to come and say, okay, you can do that with our broadcast inventory also. So I don't think it's about category-specific. It's about the way the advertising industry wants to engage on business.
Speaker #2: As Bob mentioned in his remarks, overwhelmingly, you look at the resiliency of our medium. And we said we've got the highest listening in 20 years.
Speaker #2: You look at the engagement that we have. So we don't have a challenge in terms of our listeners. At the same time, we had to meet the advertising world the way they want to transact.
Speaker #2: And that they could plan out, monitor, and measure campaigns. And we needed to come and say, okay, you can do that with our broadcast inventory also.
Speaker #2: So I don't think it's about category specific. It's about the way the advertising industry wants to engage our business.
Speaker #5: And I think you find some advertisers are more apt to go to programmatic than others—some advertisers are going directly to programmatic, not going through agencies.
Bob Pittman: I think you find some advertisers are more apt to go to programmatic.
Rich Bressler: Right.
Bob Pittman: There is some advertisers that are going direct to programmatic, not going through agencies. So there is a real diversification of how people are using it, and we are prepared to deal with all of those.
Speaker #5: So there's sort of a real diversification of how people are using it. And we're prepared to deal with all of those.
Speaker #6: Okay. Thank you.
Patrick Sholl: Okay. Thank you.
Speaker #2: Great. Well, if there are no other questions, Bob, myself, Mike, and the rest of the iHeartMedia team want to thank everybody for listening to the iHeartMedia story today.
Rich Bressler: Well, if there is no other questions, Bob, myself, Mike, and the rest of the iHeartMedia team want to thank everybody for listening to the iHeartMedia story today. As always, we are available for anything follow-up, any questions for follow-up. Thank you all.
Speaker #2: And as always, we're available for anything follow-up, any questions to follow up. Thank you all.
Operator: This concludes today's conference call. Thank you for your participation. You may now disconnect.
