Q1 2027 PB Fintech Ltd Earnings Call

August 5, 2026

Speaker #2: We'll come a little clever.

Speaker #3: I love level picture, right? So, guys,

Mohit Khobragade: Hello, everyone. We are just waiting for some more participants to join us. Kindly wait for a couple of more minutes. We would start in 2 minutes. Thank you. Going live. Hello, everyone. A very good evening and a very warm welcome to PB Fintech Limited earnings conference call for Q1, Financial Year 2027. Today we have with us Mr. Yashish Dahiya, Chairman and Group CEO, PB Fintech. Mr. Alok Bansal, Executive Vice Chairman, PB Fintech. Mr. Sarbvir Singh, Joint Group CEO, PB Fintech. Ms. Santosh Agarwal, CEO, Paisabazaar. Mr. Mandeep Mehta, Group CFO, PB Fintech, and myself, Mohit, Head Investor Relations, PB Fintech. I now request Yashish for his introductory note.

Speaker #2: hello everyone. We are just waiting for some more participants to join us. Kindly wait for a couple of more minutes. We would start in, 2 minutes.

Speaker #2: Thank you. Going live. Hello everyone. A very good evening, and a very warm welcome to PB Fintech Limited's earnings conference call for Q1 financial year 27.

Speaker #2: Today we have with us Mr. Yashish Dahia, Chairman and Group CEO of PB Fintech. Mr. Alok Bansal, Executive Vice Chairman PB Fintech. Mr. Sarabhi Singh, Joint Group CEO of PB Fintech.

Speaker #2: Ms. Santosh Agarwal, CEO of Paisa Bazaar. Mr. Mandeep Mehta, Group CFO of PB Fintech. And myself, Mohit, Head Investor Relations PB Fintech. I now request Yashish for his introductory note.

Speaker #4: Thanks, Mohit. good evening everybody, and thank you for joining us. we started 27 on a strong note, with healthy growth across most of our, insurance and credit.

Yashish Dahiya: Thanks, Mohit. Good evening, everybody. Thank you for joining us. We started 2027 on a strong note with healthy growth across most of our insurance and credit businesses, actually all. The overall insurance premium is now at INR 8,372 crores. It's grown at 41% year-on-year. Importantly, this growth continues to be led by the protection categories, which is our focus. New health and term insurance grew at 53%, with new health growing at 59% year-on-year for the core business. This is an important indicator of both the opportunity in the market and the strength of our platform. Health and term both remain significantly under-penetrated as categories. For our large and growing middle class, social security is very critical. That's sort of our big problem to solve.

Speaker #4: But this is actually all. the overall insurance premium, is now at 8,372 crores. it's grown at 41% year on year. Importantly, this growth continues to be led by the protection categories, which is our focus.

Speaker #4: New health and term insurance grew at 53%, with new health growing at 59% year on year. for the core business. this is an important indicator of both the opportunity in the market and the strength of our platform.

Speaker #4: health and term both, remain significantly underpenetrated as categories, and for our large and growing middle-class social security is very critical. that's the that's sort of our you know, big problem to solve.

Speaker #4: Our consolidated operating revenue grew 40%, to ₹1,888 crores, with core insurance revenue growing at 46% and core credit revenue growing at 25% year on year.

Yashish Dahiya: Our consolidated operating revenue grew 40% to INR 1,888 crores, with core insurance revenue growing at 46% and core credit revenue growing at 25% year-on-year. The credit disbursements were 31%. The consolidated PAT increased 92% year-on-year. Which is again, both owing to the new business as well as the renewal business, to INR 163 crores. While PAT margin improved from 6% to 9% year-on-year. Just to put in perspective, that also means for the last 12 months, our PAT would be just about INR 750 crores, plus minus right now. Starting to kind of inch towards our target number for the year. Our core online total premium grew 41% year-on-year for the quarter. Core new insurance premium, including savings, grew at 39%. Excluding savings, it's 48%.

Speaker #4: The credit disbursal was a 31%. The consolidated PAT increased 92% year on year, which is again you know, both going to the new business as well as the renewal business.

Speaker #4: to 163 crores. while PAT margin improved from 6% to 9% year on year, just to put in perspective that also means, for the last 12 months, our PAT would be just about 750 crores, plus minus right now.

Speaker #4: So you know, starting to kind of inch towards our target number for the year. our core online total premium grew 41% year on year, for the quarter, core new insurance premium, including savings grew at 39%, excluding savings is 48%.

Speaker #4: This is amongst the highest we've ever had. if you know, remember, for the last 13 quarters now, we have been upwards of 35% for our total you know, new premium growth excluding savings.

Yashish Dahiya: This is amongst the highest we've ever had. If you remember, for the last 13 quarters now, we have been upwards of 35% for our total new premium growth by excluding savings. The quality of the growth is also visible in our renewal and trail revenue. Now that beautiful time has arrived actually, while our renewal revenue has grown at 55% to INR 1,003 crores for the last 12 months. Now we're getting to a stage when you will see higher and higher growth in renewals for the next-- because this is the previous three years of fresh growth starting to pay off. You will see higher and higher numbers in renewal growth here onwards. Building trust beyond the point of sale. Insurance is clearly not about just helping customers buy a policy. Actually, the customer gets nothing when he buys a policy.

Speaker #4: The quality of the growth is also visible in our renewal and trail revenue. See, now that beautiful time has arrived, actually. While our you know, renewal revenue has grown at 55% to 1,003 crores for the last 12 months, but now we're getting to a stage when you will see higher and higher growth in renewals for the next because this is this is the previous 3 years of fresh growth starting to pay off.

Speaker #4: so you will you will see higher and higher numbers in in renewal growth here onwards. building trust beyond the point of sale, insurance is not clearly not about just helping customers buy a policy.

Speaker #4: Actually, the customer gets nothing when he buys a policy. the real test comes when they use that policy, which is at the point of claims.

Yashish Dahiya: The real test comes when they use that policy, which is at the point of claims. Basically, our claims servicing, both in terms of issuance as well as getting the customer the policy as well as in claims, we now are at above 90% in terms of CSAT. We have supported 70,000 claims in this quarter that just went by for health insurance. We are increasingly using technology and claims-related information to make customer conversations more transparent. Our advisors can demonstrate real-time, real claims outcomes. When a customer comes to us, we are able to explain to the customer in and around their area how many claims we have settled. Should the customer be willing, we can even connect them to those customers for referral calls, et cetera.

Speaker #4: And basically, our claims servicing, both in terms of issuance as well as getting the customer the policy as well as in claims, we now are at above 90% in terms of CSAT.

Speaker #4: We have supported 70,000 claims in this quarter that just went by. for health insurance. We are increasingly using technology and claims-related information to make customers' conversations more transparent.

Speaker #4: our advisors can demonstrate real-time real claims outcomes. So when a customer comes to us, we are able to explain to the customer in in and around their area how many claims we have settled.

Speaker #4: And should the customer be willing, we can even connect them to those customers for referral calls, etc. All this is very powerful in convincing new customers to buy from us.

Yashish Dahiya: All this is very powerful in convincing new customers to buy from us, and this is being done at scale using tech. In our credit business, the core revenue grew 25%, while, as I said, the core disbursements grew 33%. The good news is credit is also back into growth now. The total credit dispersal is now at INR 4,366 crores for the quarter. The business continues to focus on customers with all different credit profiles. If you really think about it, there is a high-end customer, there's a middle-end customer, and there is a customer who cannot really get credit. We are helping all three solve their problems, and all three obviously have very different problems. PBPartners is expanding clearly across all areas. Now 78% of the GWP comes from tier 2 and tier 3 cities.

Speaker #4: And this is being done at scale using tech. In our credit business, the core revenue grew 25%, while as I said, the core disbursals grew 33%.

Speaker #4: So the good news is credit is also back into growth now. the total credit disbursal is now at 4,366 crores for the quarter. The business continues to focus on customers with all different credit profiles.

Speaker #4: So if you really think about it, there is a high-end customer, there's a middle-end customer, and there is a customer who cannot really get credit.

Speaker #4: We are helping all three. you know, solve their problems and all three obviously have very different problems. PB Partners is a is expanding clearly across all areas.

Speaker #4: now 78% of the GWP comes from Tier 2 and Tier 3 cities. We now have more than 500,000 advisors, with active partner count increasing 55% year on year, to 1.13 lakhs for this quarter that's gone by.

Yashish Dahiya: We now have more than 500,000 advisors, with the active partner count increasing 55% year on year to INR 1.13 lakhs for this quarter that's gone by. Our strategy has been to increasingly work with smaller, higher quality advisors and equip them with technology, product access, training, and service support. We of course cover 99% of India's PIN codes, more than 19,000 PIN codes. Our quarterly premium grew 46% year on year to INR 1,637 crores, while revenue grew 47% to INR 561 crores. A few data points which we were not sharing and which we are starting to share now. The share of employee benefit expenses was about 15% of the revenue for the quarter. It was 12% in the previous quarter, but that is because it was seasonally a bigger quarter. It's 15% of revenue right now. Our top 100 partners' share of premium is 16%.

Speaker #4: Our strategy has been to increasingly work with smaller higher quality advisors, and equip them with technology, product access, training, and service support. We, of course, cover 99% of India's PIN codes, more than 19,000 PIN codes.

Speaker #4: Our quarterly premium grew 46% year on year to ₹1,637 crores, while revenue grew 47% to ₹561 crores. There are a few data points which we were not sharing earlier, which we are starting to share now.

Speaker #4: The share of employee benefit expenses was about 15% of the revenue for the quarter. It was 12 is 12% in the previous quarter, but that is because it was seasonally a bigger quarter.

Speaker #4: But it's 15% of revenue right now. Our top 100 partners share of premium is 16%. We will further work work actively in reducing this.

Yashish Dahiya: We will further work actively in reducing this. We are very good. Once we track something, we really get it sorted. It is 16% right now. We believe PBPartners can play an important role in increasing insurance access across India by combining local relationships with Policybazaar's technology, product breadth, and service capabilities. This actually has quite astounded me because I don't think anybody expects this. There's a lot going on in the UAE, but growth is not one of those things. Our UAE insurance premium grew 31% year on year for this quarter. Most of what we do is health and life insurance. Similar to our evolution of our India business, again, cross-border is a big part. So people who retire need health insurance in India. People need to plan for their children's education, et cetera.

Speaker #4: We are very good ones. We track something we really get it sorted. But it is 16% right now. We believe PB Partners can play an important role in increasing insurance access across India by combining local relationships with policy bazaars, technology, product breadth, and service capabilities.

Speaker #4: Now, this a actually has quite astounded me because I don't think anybody expects this. because there's a lot of lot going on in the UAE, but growth is not one of those things.

Speaker #4: And our UAE insurance premium grew 31% year on year, for this quarter. most of what we do is health and life, insurance. similar to our evolution of our India business.

Speaker #4: Again, cross-border is a big part. So people who retire, need health insurance in India. They need, you know, people need to plan for their children's education, etc.

Speaker #4: So that business is done well and has been very resilient in tough times. our new initiatives continue to scale forward. across the board, to conclude, we are seeing strong momentum across the group.

Yashish Dahiya: That business has done well and has been very resilient in tough times. Our new initiatives continue to scale forward across the board. To conclude, we are seeing strong momentum across the group. As you know, insurance premium grew 41%, revenue grew 40%, PAT grew 92%, PAT margin improved to 9%. The interesting part is, look at this over time. Over the last five years, from Q1 2022 to Q1 2027, our quarterly revenue has grown from INR 238 crores to INR 1,888 crores, which is a CAGR of 51%. Some quarter something has worked, some quarter something else has worked. Overall, our CAGR of our growth has been 51% over a five-year period, which is quite astounding. At the same time, our PAT margin has improved from -47% to +9%.

Speaker #4: as you know, insurance premium grew 41%. Revenue grew 40%. PAT grew 92%. PAT margin improved to 9%. The interesting part is look at this over time.

Speaker #4: Over the last 5 years, from Q1 22 to Q1 27, our quarterly revenue has grown from 238 crores to 1,888 crores, which is a CAGR of 51%.

Speaker #4: Some some quarter something has worked, some quarter something else has worked, but overall our CAGR of our growth has been 51% over a 5-year period, which is quite astounding.

Speaker #4: at the same time, our PAT margin has improved from negative 47 to positive 9%. And for those of us who track financial numbers better than I do, the best is just starting to come.

Yashish Dahiya: For those of us who track financial numbers better than I do, the best is just starting to come. Thank you, and I'll start looking forward to questions.

Speaker #4: So thank you, and I'll start looking forward to questions.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Yashish. I request everyone to raise their hands for Q&A. We will wait for 1 minute, and then we will start for Q&A.

Mohit Khobragade: Thank you, Yashish. I request everyone to raise their hands for Q&A. We will wait for one minute, and then we will start with Q&A. The first question is from the line of Sachin from BofA. Sachin, please unmute your mic and proceed.

Speaker #2: The first question is from the lineup, Sachin. from Bofa. Sachin, please unmute your mic and.

Speaker #3: Thanks, Mohit. Hi, management. Congrats on once again a great set of numbers. I have three questions. Let me go one by one. First strong, insurance premium growth once again, and thank you for, you know, helping us understand from where the growth is coming.

[Analyst] (Bank of America): Thanks, Mohit. Hi, management. Congrats on once again a great set of numbers. I have three questions. Let me go one by one. First question. Yashish, clearly it's very strong insurance premium growth once again, and thank you for helping us understand from where the growth is coming. When I look at the industry, particularly health and term, they are not growing as fast, and you guys on that high base continue to show anywhere between 53% to 59% of growth for a health and term. Where is this growth coming from? Is it mainly coming from tier 2, tier 3 cities, or it's still the urban areas which are contributing to most of the growth? Is there a slightly different set of users versus, let's say, what most manufacturers are looking at it, and hence your growth looks so better as compared to them?

Sachin Salgaonkar: Thanks, Mohit. Hi, management. Congrats on once again a great set of numbers. I have three questions. Let me go one by one. First question. Yashish, clearly it's very strong insurance premium growth once again, and thank you for helping us understand from where the growth is coming. When I look at the industry, particularly health and term, they are not growing as fast, and you guys on that high base continue to show anywhere between 53% to 59% of growth for a health and term. Where is this growth coming from? Is it mainly coming from tier 2, tier 3 cities, or it's still the urban areas which are contributing to most of the growth? Is there a slightly different set of users versus, let's say, what most manufacturers are looking at it, and hence your growth looks so better as compared to them?

Speaker #3: But when I look at the industry, particularly health and term, they are not growing as fast, and you guys, on that high base, continue to show anywhere between 53% to 59% growth for health and term.

Speaker #3: where is this growth coming from? Is it mainly coming from Tier 2, Tier 3 cities, or it's still the, urban areas which are contributing to most of the growth?

Speaker #3: And is there a slightly different set of users versus, let's say, what, the most, manufacturers are looking at it, and hence your growth looks, so better as compared to them?

Speaker #4: so you you want to okay, so Sarbi, yeah, I I think Sachin, I would, say two things. I mean, I think we've been consistently saying the same thing, that I think our, growth ahead of the market is coming from two or three key areas.

Yashish Dahiya: You want to. Okay. Sarbvir.

Sarbvir Singh: Yeah. I think, Sachin, I would say two things. I think we've been consistently saying the same thing, that I think our growth ahead of the market is coming from two or three key areas. One is that we definitely spend a lot of money and invest in creating demand. I think that we've been doing over a long time. Step 2, when people come to our platform, they see very attractively priced and very well-featured products, which are tailored to their segmentation and which are tailored to their needs very specifically, so they find them to be very relevant. The number 3, and I think most important point, that we have made a huge uplift in our service level and our support at the time of claims.

Speaker #4: One is that we definitely spend a lot of money and invest in creating demand. I think that we've been doing over a long time.

Speaker #4: step two, we have when people come to our platform, they see very, attractively priced and very well-featured products. which are tailored to their segmentation and which are, you know, tailored to their needs very specifically.

Speaker #4: so they find them to be very relevant. And the number three, and I think most important point, that we have made a huge uplift in our service level and our support at the time of claims.

Speaker #4: So, I think when you put these three things together, people, you know, increasingly, we get emails from people saying, 'Please quote my policy to PolicyBazaar.'

Sarbvir Singh: I think when you put these three things together, increasingly, we get emails from people saying that, "Please quote my policy to Policybazaar. I have not bought from you, but I want to use your services." I think that is an indication of the work that has been going on. I feel like it's still early days. I think there is a lot more to go, and I think we can continue to grow faster than the market. What the level will be, time will tell. I think these three things take a long time to put in motion, and I think right now they are continuing to drive our growth ahead of the market. I also want to give you one or two examples of things that I think Policybazaar does which many others don't want to.

Speaker #4: I have not bought from you, but I want to, you know, use your services. And I think that is an indication of the kind of work that has been going on.

Speaker #4: And I feel that it's still early days. I think there is a lot more to go, and I think, you know, we can continue to, grow faster than the market.

Speaker #4: you know, what the level will be, time will tell. but I think these three things take a long time to put in motion, and I think right now they are continuing to drive our growth ahead of the market.

Speaker #4: I also want to give you one or two examples of things that I think policy bazaar does, which many others don't want to do.

Speaker #4: One is like the use of monthly mode. So if you see in health insurance, largely I think we are the only platform that really sells any scale on monthly mode.

Sarbvir Singh: One is the use of monthly mode. If you see, in health insurance, largely, I think we are the only platform that really sells any scale on monthly mode. Almost over 30% of our business now comes on monthly mode. We collect all those monthly payments, we ensure persistency, we ensure renewal, that's an investment. You put in the investment to do all these things. There's a lot of discussion about missing middle, affordable products. This makes the product affordable. It allows people who are not very high income to get things. Similarly, I'll just explain another product that we've been doing for a while, which is maternity. Typically, maternity has a 1-year or a 2-year waiting period. We have a product where we are offering 3-month waiting period. There's a structure over there.

Speaker #4: And almost over 30% of our business now comes on a monthly mode. We collect all those monthly payments. We ensure persistency. We ensure renewal. And that's an investment.

Speaker #4: I mean, you have to put in the investment to do all these things. But I think that allows you know, there's a lot of discussion about missing middle, affordable products.

Speaker #4: This makes the product affordable. It allows people who are not very high income to get get things. Similarly, I just explained another product that we've been doing for a while, which is maternity.

Speaker #4: Right? Typically, maternity has like a one-year or a two-year waiting period. We have a product where we are offering three-month waiting period. Now, you know, there's a structure over there.

Speaker #4: But this gives a lot of young families a reason to buy health insurance and then, of course, you know, they stay and then they renew their thing.

Sarbvir Singh: This gives a lot of young families a reason to buy health insurance, of course, they stay, they renew their thing. Again, this is a little bit of investment upfront into something that pays off. I think these are the two things we take a long-term view. We look at customer acquisition on a lifetime value basis. Number 2, as I said, we have really worked on the three things that matter, bringing traffic, good products, offering very high level of service and claim support.

Speaker #4: Now, again, this is a little bit of investment upfront into something that pays off. So I think these are the two things we take a long-term view.

Speaker #4: We look at customer acquisition on a lifetime value basis. And number two, as I said, we have really worked on the three things that matter.

Speaker #4: Bringing traffic, good products, and then offering very high level of service and claim support.

Speaker #2: And and just so there's no misunderstanding on this, 82% of our, business that's coming in is is new in the sense they've never had an insurance policy in the past.

Yashish Dahiya: Just so there's no misunderstanding on this, 82% of our business that's coming in is new in the sense they've never had an insurance policy in the past, because quote was mentioned as one thing. Quote is still a small fraction of the people coming in.

Speaker #2: So because sport was mentioned as one thing, so port is still a small fraction of the people coming in here.

Speaker #3: Thank you both very clear. My second question is, you know, clearly that now there are two elements which, on the revenue which also both become big.

[Analyst] (Bank of America): Thank you both. Very clear. My second question is, clearly now there are two elements on the revenue which also both become big. Number 1, Yashish, as you indicated, renewals and going ahead, a higher part of the growth should come from renewals. Second is, Saurabh just indicated in the answer, health and term should continue to show a strong growth. Health, in particular, in the initial years has low margins. When we look at the blend of two, how should we think about margins now that renewals is becoming bigger and bigger? Directly, margins should continue to improve going ahead, right?

Sachin Salgaonkar: Thank you both. Very clear. My second question is, clearly now there are two elements on the revenue which also both become big. Number 1, Yashish, as you indicated, renewals and going ahead, a higher part of the growth should come from renewals. Second is, Saurabh just indicated in the answer, health and term should continue to show a strong growth. Health, in particular, in the initial years has low margins. When we look at the blend of two, how should we think about margins now that renewals is becoming bigger and bigger? Directly, margins should continue to improve going ahead, right?

Speaker #3: number one, Yashish, as you indicated, renewals and going ahead a higher part of the growth should come from renewals. And second is, you know, as Sarbir just indicated in the answer, you know, health and term, you know, should continue to show a sort of a strong growth.

Speaker #3: Health in particular in the initial years has low margins. So when we look at the blend of two, how should we think about margins?

Speaker #3: Now that renewals is becoming bigger and bigger, directionally margins should continue to improve going ahead, right?

Speaker #4: See, I think, two things here. first of all, I think over the next 12 months at least, and Sarbi, you can correct if he thinks differently, but I don't think he'll think differently.

Yashish Dahiya: I think two things here. First of all, I think over the next 12 months at least, Saurabh can correct if he thinks differently, but I don't think he'll think differently. I think renewals growth will beat fresh growth just because renewals growth is so high now. It's going to be quite high. Renewals growth is going to be upwards of 50% for some time now. I don't think our fresh growth will be that high. That's one. The second thing is, see, I've always said one thing. We are not here for the short run, and we are not here to deliver short-term efficiency. We are actually increasing our spend. We are actually increasing our acquisition spend. We are going even more aggressive than ever before. I think, Saurabh, you might want to answer this-

Speaker #4: I think renewals growth will beat fresh growth just because renewals growth is so high now. It's going to be it's going to be quite high.

Speaker #4: Renewals growth is going to be upwards of 50% for some time now. And I don't think our fresh growth will be that high. So that that's that's one.

Speaker #4: But the second thing is, see, I've always said one thing. We are not here for the short run. And we are not here to deliver short-term efficiency.

Speaker #4: So we are actually increasing our specs. We are actually increasing our acquisition spend. We are going even more aggressive than ever before. So I think, Sarbi, you might want to answer this question in terms of margins.

Sarbvir Singh: Sure.

Yashish Dahiya: -question of the margins.

Speaker #4: Yeah, I I think, Sachin, again, very consistently, you know, theoretically, yes, you can make more money as renewal percentage goes up and as Yashish said, the growth rate could be higher.

Sarbvir Singh: Yeah. I think, Sachin, again, very consistently, theoretically, yes, you can make more money as renewal percentage goes up, and as Yashish said, the growth rate could be higher. We don't know that yet. I think the point which is more important is to say that if you are thinking of it at a lifetime value basis, then we can actually still continue to reinvest and drive growth rather than just taking it to the bottom line and showing higher profits. It's not about 27, I think it's really about, I don't know, 37 or 47. Hence, we need to keep pushing that whole thing. Again, it would be more pleasing if we grow our fresh business at a higher rate than, honestly, if we grow our margins.

Speaker #4: I we don't know that yet. But I think the point which is more important is to say that if you are thinking of it as a at a lifetime value basis, then we can actually still continue to reinvest and, you know, drive growth rather than just, taking it to the bottom line and showing higher profit.

Speaker #4: So you know, it's not about 27. I think it's really about, I don't know, 37 or 47. And hence, you know, we need to keep pushing that, whole thing.

Speaker #4: So, I mean, again, it would be more pleasing if we grow our fresh business at a higher rate than, honestly, if we grow our margin.

Speaker #4: So I mean.

Speaker #2: And you're consistently hearing the same thing from management across the board: that our priority one is growth. Efficiency will come; it'll be for later.

Yashish Dahiya: You're consistently hearing the same thing from management across the board, that our P1 is growth. Efficiency will come, it will be for later. We will get enough from our growth. If you really think about it, we crossed 1% at some point. I was just looking. Right now we're at 2%. The 3% number that we've sort of broadly indicated as a percentage of premium is not very far off. We will hit our numbers. We will hit, I think, more than you expect, but let it come from growth rather than from expansion of margin at lower growth.

Speaker #2: But we will get enough from our growth. Yeah, if you really think about it, you know, we were at we we crossed 1% at some point.

Speaker #2: I was just looking, right? Right now we're at 2%. And so the 3% number that we've sort of broadly indicated as a percentage of premium is not very far off.

Speaker #2: So you know, we will hit our numbers. We will hit, I think, more than you expect. But let it come from growth, rather than from expansion of margin at lower growth.

Speaker #3: Thank you again. You know, very articulate and clear. And last question, you know, Yashish, when we look at some of the interviews given by the regulator, he's talking about an effort-based commission change.

[Analyst] (Bank of America): Thank you again. Very articulate and clear. Last question, Yashish, when we look at some of the interviews given by the regulator, he's talking about an effort-based commission change, and to some, it is also getting interpreted as it's more on the lines of perhaps an asymmetric cut for different channels. Banca might have a different cut versus, let's say, aggregators versus, let's say, manufacturers. Just wanted to understand how you guys are looking at this. I also saw one of the interviews you had given in the past which talked about in a worst-case scenario, PB Fintech might become a manufacturer. Want to understand from you, what is that worst-case scenario, and how should we think about that?

Sachin Salgaonkar: Thank you again. Very articulate and clear. Last question, Yashish, when we look at some of the interviews given by the regulator, he's talking about an effort-based commission change, and to some, it is also getting interpreted as it's more on the lines of perhaps an asymmetric cut for different channels. Banca might have a different cut versus, let's say, aggregators versus, let's say, manufacturers. Just wanted to understand how you guys are looking at this. I also saw one of the interviews you had given in the past which talked about in a worst-case scenario, PB Fintech might become a manufacturer. Want to understand from you, what is that worst-case scenario, and how should we think about that?

Speaker #3: And to some, it is also getting interpreted as, you know, it's more on the lines of perhaps an asymmetric cut. For different channels, so banker might have a different cut versus, let's say, aggregators versus, let's say, manufacturers.

Speaker #3: You know, just wanted to understand, you know, how you guys are looking at, you know, this. And I also saw one of the interviews you had given in the past, which talked about in a worst-case scenario, PB Fintech might become a manufacturer.

Speaker #3: So want to understand from you, you know, what is that worst-case scenario and, you know, how should we think about that?

Speaker #4: Yeah, I would say don't even think about the worst-case scenario. it's anyway, let me come to the base very basic thing. Legally, as defined by the regulator, the largest amount of effort in any sale needs to be put by a broker.

Yashish Dahiya: Yeah, I would say don't even think about the worst-case scenario. Anyway, let me come to the very basic thing. Legally, as defined by the regulator, the largest amount of effort in any sale needs to be put by a broker, more than any other channel. That is as legally defined in terms of tasks to be undertaken by the regulators, in terms of customer support, in terms of sales, in terms of claim support, in terms of everything. It's a very difficult position to take that the entity that is supposed to put the maximum effort is somehow meant to do the less effort. These things are legal at the end of it, and I would leave it there. I think there's been way too many statements and way too many things, and I am sure wisdom is developing.

Speaker #4: More than any other channel. And that is as legally defined in terms of tasks to be undertaken by the regulator. In terms of customer support, in terms of sales, in terms of claim support, in terms of everything.

Speaker #4: So it's a very difficult position to take that the entity that is opposed to the maximum effort is somehow doing meant to do the less effort.

Speaker #4: So you know, these things are legal at the end of it. And, I would kind of leave it there. I think there's been way too many statements and way too many things and I'm sure wisdom is developing.

Yashish Dahiya: I use that word very carefully, and I think it'll develop more. I think we will see the result of it as it happens. Yeah. I don't anticipate anything that was like sometimes you do these media interviews, it's very strange, and that's why I stopped doing media interviews, frankly. I wasn't very pleased about doing them in the first place. Sometimes, you come under pressure and you do them because your own PR team is saying you need to do them, et cetera. Now, what actually happens is they say 10 things, and one of those things is the one they pick up, and that thing you said in point number 9, and they make it the headline. Look, that's the reason, I guess, a lot of people in the regulated industry don't do interviews, because it doesn't make any sense here.

Speaker #4: I use that word very carefully, and I think it'll develop more. I think we will see the result of it as it happens.

Speaker #4: yeah. and I I don't anticipate anything. That was like, you know, you know, sometimes when you do these media interviews, it's very strange and that's why I stopped doing media interviews, thankfully.

Speaker #4: I wasn't very pleased about doing them in the first place. But sometimes, you know, you come under pressure and you do them because your own PR team is saying you need to do them, etc., etc.

Speaker #4: Now, what actually happens is you say 10 things. And one of those things is the one they pick up. And that thing you said at point number nine and they make it the headline.

Speaker #4: And look, that's the reason I guess a lot of people in the regulated industry don't do interviews because it doesn't make any sense here.

Speaker #4: You just kind of exaggerating something which which is a side point.

Yashish Dahiya: You're just exaggerating something which is a side point.

Speaker #5: Can can I just add? You know, first of all, I want to make it clear that none of us want to say anything about the regulator.

Sarbvir Singh: Can I just add?

Yashish Dahiya: Yeah. Please.

Sarbvir Singh: First of all, I want to make it clear that none of us want to say anything about the regulator. I think that is an independent process and we have nothing to do with it. I think the point I just want to explain to you, Sachin, to you and everyone on the call, is that we've had two instances in the last five years. I've only been in this business for a short time, where we have seen that you had COVID, you had a great run in increase in demand for health and term insurance. The minute COVID finished, and it was like the mother of all epidemics the world has ever seen across the world, immediately the demand went away, right? The same thing we saw, right now we are in the middle of the GST thing. We saw Q3 very big, Q4 big.

Speaker #5: I mean, I think that is an independent process and, you know, we have nothing to do with it. I think the point I just want to explain to you, Sachin, to you and everyone on the call, is that, you know, we've had two instances in the last five years.

Speaker #5: I've only been in this business for a short time. Where we have seen that, you know, you had COVID, you had a great run in in increase in demand for health and term insurance.

Speaker #5: Minute COVID finished and it was like the mother of all epidemics. The world has ever seen across the world, it immediately the demand went away.

Speaker #5: Right? The same thing we saw right now, we are in the middle of the GST thing. We saw Q3, you know, very big. Q4, big.

Speaker #5: Now, in Q1, it has already started to fade, and I think we'll be lucky if it goes through in Q2. So, the point I'm trying to make is that demand for insurance is extremely low.

Sarbvir Singh: In Q1, it has already started to fade, and I think we'll be lucky if it goes through in Q2. The point I'm trying to make is that demand for insurance is extremely low. Anyone who's selling insurance, by definition, has to make a significant effort to get there. I think for a platform like ours, that effort is very visible in terms of the marketing spend that we have to do, the conversion resources that we have to deploy, the focus on service and claims. I think I just want to just put out that this is the level of effort that is required. It's not easy. The trend doesn't last more than even two quarters, really.

Speaker #5: So anyone who's selling insurance, by definition, has to make a significant effort to get there. And I think for a platform like ours, that effort is very, very visible in terms of the marketing spend that we have to do, the conversion you know, resources that we have to deploy, the focus on service and claims.

Speaker #5: So I think, I just want to just put out that this is the level of effort that is required. so it's not easy. I mean, nothing really the trend doesn't last more than even two quarters really.

Speaker #2: What are the what are the four, five things anybody who wants to sell insurance needs to do? You need to generate inquiries. You need to convert those inquiries.

Yashish Dahiya: What are the four or five things anybody who wants to sell insurance needs to do? You need to generate inquiries. You need to convert those inquiries. You need to have some mechanism to technically do this, whether you do it through paper, whether you do it through technology, et cetera. Then after the customer has paid for the policy, you need to get it issued. There is a process in that, document collection, medicals, et cetera. There's a process that needs to happen. After all this, you need to be there at the point of claims. These are the five things anybody needs to do. In this, a bulk of the cost actually goes in generating inquiries and converting inquiries. The platform part, while it seems like a big thing, is actually the easy part.

Speaker #2: You need to have some mechanism to technically do this whether you do it through paper, whether you do it through technology, etc., etc. Then after the customer has paid for the policy, you need to get it issued.

Speaker #2: There is a process in that, document collection, medicals, etc., etc. There's a process that needs to happen. After all this, you need to be there at the point of claims.

Speaker #2: These are the five things anybody needs to do. In this a bulk of the cost actually goes in generating inquiries and converting inquiries. The platform part, while it seems like a big thing, is actually the easy part.

Speaker #2: There are about 300 platforms in this country. On which you can go and transact insurance for most insurers. For 20-plus insurers. So I don't think platform is the problem.

Yashish Dahiya: There are about 300 platforms in this country on which you can go and transact insurance for most insurers, for 20-plus insurers. I don't think platform is the problem. The problem is generating an inquiry costs a lot of money, converting an inquiry costs a lot of money, and then to bring goodwill by supporting customers in getting issuance and getting claims settled costs a lot of money. Someone like us who's been there for 18 years is just about getting to a point where they're making 1%, 2% of their premium as profits, and that too with interest income. If you take away interest income, it is still less than 1%. Maybe it's a weak quarter, maybe for the year it would be more than 1%. It's a weak quarter in the sense, the Q1. It's a strong quarter, but a weak quarter.

Speaker #2: The problem is generating an inquiry costs a lot of money. Converting an inquiry costs a lot of money. And then to bring goodwill by supporting customers in getting issuance and getting claims settled costs a lot of money.

Speaker #2: And someone like us who's been there for 18 years is just about getting to a point where they're making 1, 2% of their premium as profits.

Speaker #2: And that too, with interest income. If you take away interest income, it's still less than 1%, right? Maybe it's a weak quarter—maybe for the year, it would be more than 1%.

Speaker #2: it's a weak quarter in the sense the first quarter, right? So it's a it's a strong quarter, but a weak quarter. So but the but the point is, look, if anybody can do it for less, most welcome, yeah.

Yashish Dahiya: The point is, look, if anybody can do it for less, most welcome. Be our guest. I don't think it's feasible.

Speaker #2: Like, you know, be our guest, but, you know, I don't think it's feasible.

Speaker #1: Okay. Thanks, Jeff. Thank you very much.

Mohit Khobragade: Okay. Thanks.

Sarbvir Singh: Thank you very much.

Speaker #5: Thank you, Sachin. We will now take next question from the line of press, Jen. From Muthilal. Press. Please unmute your mic.

Mohit Khobragade: Thank you, Prateek. We will now take next question from the line of Pravesh Jain from Motilal. Pravesh, please unmute your mic.

Speaker #1: Yeah. Hi everyone. I'm in Congass. I'm a great set of numbers. firstly, you know, I think you mentioned about 70,000 claims on the health insurance front that were supported by PB.

Pravesh Jain: Yeah. Hi, everyone. Congrats on great set of numbers. Firstly, I think you mentioned about 70,000 claims on the health insurance front that was supported by PB. If I recollect well, you have mentioned in the past about 3,000 feet on street underground with regards to this. I'm trying to understand this. I think we can probably do this ratio should be much better, right? What kind of effort that we'll need to increase this? Extension to that would be, if you would have, say, 100 customers, how many would have claimed in this quarter? Just trying to understand in the policies that we are servicing and the number of claims that we are getting, how much are we supporting the claims? That just helps us concretizing more the amount of effort that you're putting.

Speaker #1: Right? and if I recollect well, you have mentioned in the past about 3,000 feet on street on the ground. Right? with regards to this, this so trying to understand this, you know, I think we can probably do this ratio could have been much should be much better, right?

Speaker #1: So what what is kind of, you know, is there a is what kind of, effort that we'll need to kind of increase this? And extension to that would be if you would have say, you know, 100 customers, how many would have claimed in this quarter?

Speaker #1: And how. Trying to understand, you know, in in the in the policies that we are servicing, and the number of claims that we are getting, how much of the how much are we kind of supporting the claims?

Speaker #1: That just helps us concretize more the amount of effort that you're putting in.

Speaker #4: See, whatever comes to us, we're supporting 100%. And you know, basically like why wouldn't we, right? And essentially if you think about it, typically of our total policy base, roughly 1.25% to 1.67% or so would claim every quarter.

Yashish Dahiya: See, whatever comes to us, we're supporting 100%.

Pravesh Jain: Okay.

Yashish Dahiya: Basically, why wouldn't we, right?

Pravesh Jain: Right.

Yashish Dahiya: Essentially, if you think about it, typically of our total policy base, roughly 1.25% to 1.67% or so would claim every quarter. Of course, there are high claim quarters and low claim quarters depending on whatever.

Speaker #4: And of course, there are high claim quarters and low claim quarters depending on whatever. But typically about 6% of your base claims every year.

Pravesh Jain: Right.

Yashish Dahiya: Typically, about 6% of your base claims every year. I guess it's not 3,000 people, it's a little less than that. It's a lot less than that.

Speaker #4: I guess it's not 3,000 people. It's a little less than that—it's a lot less than that. So, yeah, those numbers make sense.

Pravesh Jain: Okay.

Yashish Dahiya: Yeah, those numbers make sense. It takes a lot of effort to settle a single claim also.

Speaker #4: It takes a lot of effort to settle a single claim also. It takes a huge amount of effort to get a claims order.

Sarbvir Singh: Yeah.

Yashish Dahiya: It takes a huge amount of effort to get a claim sorted.

Speaker #5: No, no. And and great. I think you should understand that the flow is the customer typically goes to a doctor. Doctor or somebody recommends you go to a hospital.

Sarbvir Singh: Pravesh, I think you should understand that the flow is the customer typically goes to a doctor, or somebody recommends you go to a hospital, then sometimes they call us before they go to the hospital, sometimes they call us after they're in the hospital. It's a mixture of things. Actually settling or holding somebody's hand through a claim process is actually quite complex and time-consuming. The good news is that a lot of claims actually go through largely on their own. It's those claims that get stuck or there is some reduction which the customer doesn't understand, et cetera, which come to us.

Speaker #5: And then, you know, sometimes they call us before they go to the hospital, and sometimes they call us after they're in the hospital.

Speaker #5: So it's a it's a mixture of things. And actually settling or holding somebody's hand through a claim process is actually quite complex. And time consuming.

Speaker #5: So the good news is that a lot of claims actually go through, you know, largely on their own. It's those claims that get stuck or there is some deduction which the customer doesn't understand, etc., etc., which come to us.

Speaker #5: So so it's a, you know, we are a fallback. It's not like, you know, at this point, you know, everyone is starting from us, right?

Pravesh Jain: Right.

Sarbvir Singh: We are a fallback. It's not like at this point everyone is starting from us.

Speaker #1: Right, right, right. Interesting. the the second question was on, you know, again, the motor piece. Where, you know, how how do you see this this part of the business?

Pravesh Jain: Right. Interesting. The second question was on, again, the motor piece, where, how do you see this part of the business? Health and term have been doing phenomenally well, motor as an industry also has gone through slowdown. What is the kind of growth that you would expect on the motor business? Again, on the health front, just want to understand some recognition. How do you account for, say, a 3-year policy? Entire premium is accounted in the total premium or it is just a 1-year premium that gets accounted? The reason I ask this question is when the renewal time comes, whether we'll have the long-term renewals contributing or not. That's the question. Those are two questions.

Speaker #1: Health and term have been growing phenomenally well, and motor, as an industry, has also gone through a slowdown. What is the kind of growth that you would expect on the motor business?

Speaker #1: And again, on the health health front, just want to understand some recognition. you know, how do you kind of how do you kind of account for, say, a three-year policy?

Speaker #1: So entire premium is accounted in the in the total premium. Or it is it is just the one-year premium that gets accounted. the reason I ask this question is when the renewal time comes, whether we'll have the the the long-term renewals contributing or not.

Speaker #1: That's that's the question. Yeah. Those are two questions.

Speaker #5: So yeah, I think on the motor front, we actually had a good quarter. Our motor plus two-wheeler direct business grew over 30%. Our motor business in POSP grew close to 50% almost.

Sarbvir Singh: Yeah, I think on the motor front, we actually had a good quarter. Our motor plus two-wheeler direct business grew over 30%. Our motor business in POSP grew close to 50% almost. I think both parts in motor, we have been continuing to do well. I think as you know, right, it is dependent on new car sales, new bike sales, and then over a period of time, those policies come to us because typically we are not a big player in the new market. Then we take care of the rollover and renewals. I think that will continue. We gain share modestly every quarter, I feel, and I think we have the infrastructure in place to keep doing that.

Speaker #5: so I think both parts in motor we we've been continuing to do well. I yeah, I mean, I think we don't have necessarily a huge view on the motor business.

Speaker #5: I think as you know, right, it's dependent on new car sales, new bike sales, and then over a period of time, you know, those policies come to us because typically we are not a big player in the new market.

Speaker #5: and then, you know, we we take care of the rollover and renewals. so I think that will continue. We we gain share modestly every quarter, I feel.

Speaker #5: And we will con I think we have the infrastructure in place to keep doing that. on the health side, the way we do is we report premium on a collection basis.

Sarbvir Singh: On the health side, the way we do is we report premium on a collection basis. We show the 3-year premium as part of our base or the number that is reported to you. Of course, on a renewal basis, we measure by number of policies. Our focus is not on premium but on number of policies. Based on whatever base is due for renewal, we compare how much we are able to renew. I am happy to report that both in the first-year renewals and in the second year and beyond renewals, we are at all-time high renewal rates at Policybazaar.

Speaker #5: So we show the three-year premium is part of our base. Or the number that is reported to you. And of course, on a renewal, basis, we measure by number of policies.

Speaker #5: Our focus is not on premium, but on number of policies. And based on the the whatever base is due for renewal, we compare how much, you know, we are able to renew.

Speaker #5: And I'm happy to report that both in the first-year renewal and in the second-year and beyond renewals, we are at all-time high renewal rates, at policy with us.

Speaker #4: And just to clarify on the you know, multi-year versus single-year kind of plans, etc., we track a number internally. We call it indexed growth, which means annualized health insurance growth.

Yashish Dahiya: Just to clarify on the multi-year versus single year kind of plans, et cetera, we track a number internally. We call it indexed growth, which means annualized health insurance growth. That is not very different. There would be a gap of 5% and 6% between

Speaker #4: That is not very different. There there would be a gap of five, six percent between

Speaker #5: 100 basis points. This quarter, 100 basis points.

Sarbvir Singh: 100 basis points. This quarter, 100 basis.

Speaker #4: 100 basis points is the difference between index growth and you know, overall overall growth. So multi-year is not pushing a big element in that.

Yashish Dahiya: 100 basis points is the difference between index growth and overall growth. Multi-year is not pushing a big element in that. Just for clarity.

Speaker #5: Yes.

Speaker #4: Okay.

Pravesh Jain: Okay. Actually, last question, on the PB Health. Whatever you can share more in every quarter we can add this to you.

Speaker #1: actually last question. you know, on the PB health, right, whatever you can share more, you know, every quarter we can add this to you.

Speaker #5: We we just got we just got one minute before this thing started. We just got the approval to start billing in our second hospital.

Yashish Dahiya: We just got 1 minute before this thing started.

Pravesh Jain: Oh.

Yashish Dahiya: We just got the approval to start billing in our second hospital. Yeah, we are moving step by step.

Speaker #5: So yeah, we're re moving step by step. see, revenues are there. as you can see, our total loss for the quarter is about seven quar seven crores or so.

Yashish Dahiya: The revenues are there. As you can see, our total loss for the quarter is about INR 7 crore or so. We are also doing preventive health. We had acquired Fitterfly last year. Since when we acquired them, their monthly revenue is up four times. We are eventually an operational workhorse here.

Speaker #5: we have we are also doing preventive health. We had acquired fit fly last year. where since when we acquired them, their monthly revenue is up four times see, we are eventually a operational work hardware.

Speaker #5: Now we've gotten behind a new category. So you'll see us deliver stuff, right? We have our internal numbers. They are actually quite impressive as we look at our targets for actually, you know, I I I speak my mind, so I don't care what you think about it or whether I'm speaking ahead of time.

Yashish Dahiya: We've gotten behind a new category. You'll see us deliver stuff. We have our internal numbers. They are actually quite impressive as we look at our targets for. Actually, I speak my mind, so I don't care what you think about it or whether I'm speaking ahead of time. By March next year, we will have annual run rate of about INR 500 crore. We would be break-even. I'm talking about March 2027, not March 2028. We may not achieve it, we may achieve it, but that's our target. That's our internal target. We might be slightly ahead, we might be slightly behind. I think opening hospitals is not an easy business. We are about 1 year into this, and we've got 2 going and 1 from scratch, and quite a few in the pipeline. I think we are coming into this sector.

Speaker #5: by March next year, we will have annual run rate of about 500 crores. We would be we would be break even. I'm talking about March 27, not March 28.

Speaker #5: so yeah, now we may not achieve it. We may achieve it, but that's our target. That's our internal target. We might be slightly ahead.

Speaker #5: We might be slightly behind. and I think opening hospitals is not an easy business. We are about one year into this. And we've got two going.

Speaker #5: And one from scratch. And quite a few in the pipeline. I think we're coming into this sector. See, think about it from a very simple perspective.

Yashish Dahiya: Think about it from a very simple perspective. What percentage of hospital billing is coming from insurance?

Speaker #5: What percentage of hospitals billing is coming from insurance?

Speaker #1: Right.

Pravesh Jain: Right.

Speaker #4: You got to take 30 for 30, 35, 40 percent depending on which hospital you're talking about. Now just take this number 10 years ahead.

Yashish Dahiya: Give or take 34%, 30%, 35%, 40%, depending on which hospital you're talking about.

Pravesh Jain: Yeah.

Yashish Dahiya: Just take this number 10 years ahead, just ask yourself a very simple question, what percentage of Indian hospital billing, corporate hospital billing, will come from insurance? What percentage of Indian health insurance will Policybazaar be? Its friends be. I don't say just Policybazaar. Policybazaar and friends, and that's all the insurance companies, right?

Speaker #4: And just ask yourself a very simple question. What percentage of Indian hospital billing, corporate hospital billing will come from insurance? And what percentage of Indian health insurance will policy with RB?

Speaker #4: And it's friends me. I don't say it just policy with R. Policy with R and friends. And that's all the insurance companies. Right? We have all friends everywhere.

Pravesh Jain: Right.

Yashish Dahiya: We have all friends everywhere. I think healthcare, I think the interdependence of these two is not very well understood by most. People think this is a kind of a relationship of if you get more, I get less. No, it is not. Healthcare will develop if insurance is sustainable and if claims are good. That is how healthcare will develop across the country. Otherwise, we're limited to these seven cities. Who can afford healthcare? Who can afford hospitals today? Either you are rich, or you have a government job, so ECHS, CGHS, something, or you have insurance. Nobody else can afford hospitals. Now, how many people in the country are rich, and how many have government jobs? Will that grow alone, or will health insurance grow? Health insurance will enable healthcare, good aligned healthcare will enable insurance.

Speaker #4: So I think healthcare and I think the interdependence of these two is not very well understood by most. People think this is a kind of a relationship of you know, if you get more I get less.

Speaker #4: No, it is not. Healthcare will develop if insurance is sustainable. And if claims are good. That is how healthcare will develop across the country.

Speaker #4: Otherwise, we're limited to these seven cities where you have who can afford healthcare? Who can afford hospitals today? Either you are rich or you have a government job.

Speaker #4: So ECHS, CGHS, something. Or you have insurance. Nobody else can afford hospitals. Now, how many people in the country are rich? And how many have government jobs?

Speaker #4: And will that grow? Alone? Or will health insurance grow? So healthcare and good aligned healthcare will will enable insurance. So I actually don't understand the complexity here.

Yashish Dahiya: I actually don't understand the complexity here. It's a core stuff here. It's not easy. By the way, I don't like healthcare. I look like shit. It's working. It's working is all I would say. It's all good.

Yashish Dahiya: I actually don't understand the complexity here. It's a core stuff here. It's not easy. By the way, I don't like healthcare. I look like sit. It's working. It's working is all I would say. It's all good.

Speaker #4: It's a core stuff here. It's not easy. And and by the way, I don't like healthcare. I look like it. But you know, it's working.

Speaker #4: It's working. Is all I would say. It's all it's all good.

Speaker #1: Great. Thank you so much. And wish you all the best. Thanks.

Pravesh Jain: Great. Thank you so much, wish you all the best. Thanks.

Speaker #5: Thanks, Praj. We would now take next question from the line of Deepansh and Ghosh. Deepanshan, please unmute your mic. I think we lost Deepanshan.

Mohit Khobragade: Thanks, Pravesh. We would now take next question from the line of Deepanjan Ghosh. Deepanjan, please unmute your mic. I think we lost Deepanjan. Oh, she's here.

Speaker #5: Oh, she's here.

Speaker #6: Hi, sorry, I think I was not able to unmute myself. Good evening. I have a few questions from my side. You know, first, if I look at your savings business, despite a relatively favorable and low base, it continues to be a little bit on the softer side.

Deepanjan Ghosh: Hi. Sorry, I think I was not able to unmute myself. Good evening. A few questions from my side. First, if I look at your savings business, despite relatively favorable and low base, it continues to be a little bit on the softer side. I understand you previously articulated that you're normally a platform business and a lot of the customers are pull in nature, especially on the savings side. Is that the reason for this softness? Also, I think over the last 1 to 2 years, you have been focusing on developing the children's plan and some of the pension categories. What would be the mix within the savings business of those categories, and how would that be growing at this current juncture? That's my first question.

Speaker #6: Now, I I I understand you're previously articulated that, you know, you're normally a platform business. And a lot of the customers are pool in nature, especially on the savings side.

Speaker #6: so is that the reason for this softness? And also, I think, over the last, one to two years, you have been focusing on developing the, children's plan and some of the pension categories.

Speaker #6: so what would be the mix, within the savings business of those categories? And how would that be, kind of kind of growing at this current juncture?

Speaker #6: So that's my first question. Second, on PESA with R, you have mentioned that you will be starting the daily SIPs from August 26, if I understood correctly.

Deepanjan Ghosh: Second, on Paisabazaar, you have mentioned that you'll be starting the daily SIPs from 26 August, if I understood correctly. What would be the monetization strategy, and has there been any pilot or in terms of understanding the addressable market and also, ex of credit, what is the sort of monetization or revenue pool that you think you can build on Paisabazaar, let's say over the next 2 to 3 years? Yeah, those were my two questions.

Speaker #6: so what would be the monetization strategy? And has there been any pilot or in terms of understanding the addressable market? And also, you know, X of credit, what what are the, what what is the sort of, monetization or revenue pool that you think you can build on PESA with R, let's say, over the next two to three years?

Speaker #6: yeah. So those were my two questions.

Speaker #5: Got a big bank of money. Yeah. Yeah. So I think on the savings side, Deepanshan, we grew over 20% in the fresh business in, Q1.

Yashish Dahiya: Abhinav go.

Sarbvir Singh: Yeah. I think on the savings side, Deepanjan, we grew over 20% in the fresh business in Q1. Yes, you're right in saying that it doesn't seem so great if you look at it versus last year. In the sense that you would have expected more, the two years before this, we had a very big quarter, very big year. I think given the state of the markets are kind of choppy. They go up and down almost every day. It's a little difficult for people to build confidence. I think beneath this 21%, there are two interesting developments that I would like to touch upon. First is, I think we have expanded the concept of waiver of premium.

Speaker #5: So yes, you're right in saying that it doesn't seem so great if you look at it versus last year. I mean, in the sense that you would have expected more.

Speaker #5: But then, you know, the two years before this, we had a very big quarter, very big year. So I think, given the state of the markets, you know, markets are kind of choppy.

Speaker #5: They go up and down almost every day. So it's a little difficult for people to build confidence. But I think, beneath this 21%, there are two interesting developments that I would like to touch upon.

Speaker #5: First is, I think we have expanded the concept of waiver of premium. So what you are referring to in child plans, the main story there was that not only can you set your goals, but you can protect your goals.

Sarbvir Singh: What you're referring to in child plans, the main story there was that not only can you set your goals, but you can protect your goals. Because if you buy a mutual fund, yes, you are saving for a goal, something happens to you, that goal and the money will disappear, right? Whatever you invested. Whereas in waiver of premium plans, you can be assured that whatever plan you have bought, that entire amount of money will be invested and you will get a return. We have expanded this category beyond just children to say that every goal should be protected. I think every month we have been expanding the percentage of our business that is coming from waiver of premium. Actually, I'm very encouraged by that, and I feel that in the next few quarters, this will help drive the business.

Speaker #5: Because if you buy a mutual fund, yes, you are saving for a goal, but something happens to you that goal and the money will disappear, right?

Speaker #5: You'll only whatever you've invested. Whereas in waiver of premium plans, you can be assured that whatever plan you have bought, that entire amount of money will be invested and you will get a return.

Speaker #5: So, we have expanded this category beyond just children to say that every goal should be protected. And I think, every month, we have been expanding the percentage of our business that is coming from waiver of premium.

Speaker #5: And actually, I'm very encouraged by that, and I feel that in the next few quarters, this will help drive the business. And it's kind of, you know, talking about insurance plus investment now.

Sarbvir Singh: It's talking about insurance plus investment now. We are not just talking of investment. I think that's an interesting and positive development. The second point that I want to make is Gift City. In Gift City, we started last September, we have very soon become, frankly, the dominant and only player in retail insurance sales from Gift City. Savings, we are doing a very good job. We are being able to sell dollar plans both to our existing base. Very interestingly, non-residents who have bought plans from us in the past, they are buying them again. Of course, to new customers who are coming. I think the good news in this Gift City side is that it opens up the entire spectrum of global investing. It's no longer just India.

Speaker #5: We are not just talking of investment. So I think that's an interesting and positive development. and the second, point that, sorry, the second point that I want to make is gift city.

Speaker #5: In gift city, you know, we started last September. And we have very soon become frankly the dominant and only player in retail insurance sales from gift city.

Speaker #5: you know, and savings, we are doing a very good job. We are being able to sell, dollar plans, both to our existing base. So very interestingly, people who have bought non-residents who have bought plans from us in the past, they are buying them again.

Speaker #5: And of course, to new customers who are coming. And I think the good news in this gift city side is that it opens up the entire spectrum of global investing.

Speaker #5: So it's no longer just India. It's, you know, we can sell technology-based funds. We can sell other countries, etc. So I think these two developments give me a lot of hope you know, we we only sell certain types of products.

Sarbvir Singh: We can sell technology-based funds, we can sell other countries, et cetera. I think these two developments give me a lot of hope. We only sell certain types of products. The products have to be very efficient, et cetera. There is a limitation in terms of how fast we can go. I think these two developments will definitely take us forward. Yashi is saying that we should talk of WOP as a percentage of the business. In the domestic business, in some centers, it has crossed 60% now in July. I think WOP, waiver of premium, is the dominant story, and we are quite encouraged by that.

Speaker #5: The products have to be very efficient, etc. So there is a limitation in terms of how fast, you know, we can go. But we are, you know, I think these two developments will will definitely, take us forward.

Speaker #5: yes, this is saying that we should talk of WAP as a percentage of the business. in the domestic business, in, some centers, it has crossed 60% now in in in July.

Speaker #5: So I think WAP, waiver of premium is the dominant story. And we are quite encouraged by that.

Speaker #1: Santosh.

Yashish Dahiya: Santosh?

Speaker #3: So yeah, we are launching a daily SIP platform. Look, I think, see, this industry is growing at about 20%, 22% year on year. And, see, a lot of I think salaried consumers already have, you know, more options to buy, you know, mutual funds.

Santosh Agarwal: Yeah, we are launching a daily SIP platform. Look, this industry is growing at about 20% to 22% year on year. I think salaried consumers already have enough and more options to buy mutual funds. Salaried consumers are people who have a monthly, I would say, visibility of their income, and hence committing to a monthly SIP does not hurt them. I think a large part of India, which is self-employed and work on businesses where the visibility of monthly income may not be that high, for them to commit monthly is very hard. A lot of self-employed people still are not in this category. I think our aim is to get those people in the mutual fund area and help them start their savings journey. We have not really done a pilot to say in the daily SIP category.

Speaker #3: And salaried consumers are people who have a daily you know, a monthly I would say visibility of their income. And hence, committing to a monthly SIP doesn't hurt them.

Speaker #3: But I think large part of India, which is self-employed and, you know, work on businesses where the visibility of monthly income may not be that high, for them to commit monthly is very hard.

Speaker #3: So a lot of self-employed people still are not in this category. I think our aim is to get those people in the mutual fund, area and start help them start their savings journey.

Speaker #3: We've, not really done a pilot to say in the daily SIP category. Of course, you know, I've, have had experience of building savings within policy.

Santosh Agarwal: Of course, have had experience of building savings within policy. With that, there is a lot of cross-learning that is possible. I feel self-employed is a category that today remains very low. Penetration is very low of any kind of savings product there. There is a lot of scope.

Speaker #3: So with that, there's a lot of, cross-learning that's possible. And I feel self-employed is a category that, today remains very low. Penetration is very low of, any kind of savings products there.

Speaker #3: So, there is a lot of scope. CM2.

Yashish Dahiya: From a 1 to 2-year perspective, actually, a lot of the savings that is being done in Paisa are not a revenue-building activity. They are a stickiness-building activity.

Speaker #4: From a one to two year perspective, actually, a lot of the savings that is being done in PESA are not a revenue-building activity. They are a stickiness-building activity.

Speaker #3: Yeah. So there's I would say, just to answer the second question, I don't think there'll be, you know, more than 5, 10% of overall PESA's revenue in the next two years or so.

Santosh Agarwal: Yeah, I would say, just to answer the second question, I do not think there will be more than 5% to 10% of overall Paisa's revenue in the next 2 years or so. There are a lot of things that we are doing to build engagement on our app and savings, mutual funds, bonds, and a lot of work on the payments side, which is basically bill payments sector. A lot of work is happening on that side to basically build engagement. I think it is a loop. You get more data around consumers. Some people want loans, some people want savings. I think being able to see that and give these products to both of these kind of consumers, that is the attempt. Of course, very hard to say on where we will be, but I do not think it will be more than 10% to 15% at best in the next 2 years.

Speaker #3: There are a lot of things that we're doing to build, engagement on our app. And, savings, mutual funds, bonds, and a lot of, work on the payments side, which is basically bill payments sector.

Speaker #3: So a lot of work is happening on that side, to basically build engagement. That, you know, it's I think it's a loop. You get more data around consumers.

Speaker #3: Some people want to want loans. Some people want savings. So I think being able to see that and, give these products to both of, these kind of consumers, that's the attempt.

Speaker #3: But of course, you know, very hard to say on where we'll be. But I don't think it'll be more than 10, 15% at at best in the next two years.

Speaker #1: Sure. Thanks.

Sarbvir Singh: Sure. Thanks.

Speaker #2: Got it. Maybe one small follow-up to survey. You know, given the numbers you mentioned, would it be fair to assume that savings would be like 30% of your fresh business now, more or less, and second question is, in this regard, I mean, you have historically not talked about it, but, could you get some color on the margin profile of savings in the first year versus, let's say, your, ex-health overall, fresh margins?

Deepanjan Ghosh: Got it. Maybe one small follow-up to Sarbvir. Given the numbers you mentioned, would it be fair to assume that savings would be 30% of your fresh business now, more or less? Second question is, in this regard, you have historically not talked about it, but could we get some color on the margin profile of savings in the first year versus, let's say, your ex health overall fresh margins? Any color on that would be helpful. Thank you.

Speaker #2: And any color on that would be helpful. Thank you.

Speaker #5: I think the margin economics of the savings business, I think, is not necessary to be discussed. I think it's fine, you know, we do life insurance.

Sarbvir Singh: I think, Deepanjan, economics of savings business, I think, is not necessary to be discussed. I think it's fine. We do life insurance, we do term, and we do market-linked products. Overall, I think we are a very good combination from an insurance company's perspective. We get very high-quality customers, and these customers are good for us as well as for the insurance company.

Speaker #5: We do term and we do, I think, market link products. And overall, I think we are a very good, combination from a insurance company's perspective.

Speaker #5: We get very high quality customers. And these customers are good for us as well as for the insurance company.

Speaker #2: got it. thank you everyone and all the best.

Deepanjan Ghosh: Got it. Thank you, everyone, and all the best.

Speaker #1: Thank you. Thank you, Deepanjit. Next question is from the lineup, Subratim Dutta.

Mohit Khobragade: Thank you. Thank you, Deepanjan. Next question is from the line of Sukrit Dutta from Goldman.

Speaker #6: Yeah. Hi. thanks for the opportunity. I'll start maybe with the health piece. you know, a few quarters back, you had talked about, you know, the combined operating model that you are running.

Sukrit Dutta: Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I'll start maybe with the health piece. A few quarters back, you had talked about the combined operating model that you are running. Just wanted to understand, how many insurers are now covered under this model, and how would the economics change under this regime versus what the previous regime was. If you could give us some color around that would be very helpful. On the second bit, just wanted to understand what proportion of your motor insurance comes from motor third party, and currently the Supreme Court yesterday passed a verdict saying that the TP period is going to be extended. Just wanted to understand how would that impact your business, because yours is largely renewals, and now renewals will take longer to come in. That's my second bit.

[Analyst] (Goldman): Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. I'll start maybe with the health piece. A few quarters back, you had talked about the combined operating model that you are running. Just wanted to understand, how many insurers are now covered under this model, and how would the economics change under this regime versus what the previous regime was. If you could give us some color around that would be very helpful. On the second bit, just wanted to understand what proportion of your motor insurance comes from motor third party, and currently the Supreme Court yesterday passed a verdict saying that the TP period is going to be extended. Just wanted to understand how would that impact your business, because yours is largely renewals, and now renewals will take longer to come in. That's my second bit.

Speaker #6: just wanted to understand, you know, how many insurers are now covered under this model, and how would the economics, you know, change, you know, under this regime versus, you know, what the previous regime was.

Speaker #6: So, so if you could give us some color around that, that would be very helpful. And then, you know, on the second bit, you know, just wanted to understand what proportion of your motor insurance comes from motor third party, and, currently, you know, the Supreme Court yesterday passed a verdict saying that, you know, the PP period is going to be extended.

Speaker #6: So just wanted to understand how would that impact your business, because yours is largely renewals, and now renewals will take longer to come in.

Speaker #6: So, so that that's, you know, my second bit. And lastly, on, you know, the POSP side of the business, thanks for, you know, the additional details that you have provided.

Sukrit Dutta: Lastly on the POSP side of the business, thanks for the additional details that you have provided. An interesting comment that you made was the top 100 currently contribute somewhere around 16% of your premiums, and you plan to bring that down. Just wanted to understand how do you plan that? On the POSP side of the business, what is your focus? Is it scale, or is it profitability over the next three, four years? Yeah, that would be my three questions. Thank you.

[Analyst] (Goldman): Lastly on the POSP side of the business, thanks for the additional details that you have provided. An interesting comment that you made was the top 100 currently contribute somewhere around 16% of your premiums, and you plan to bring that down. Just wanted to understand how do you plan that? On the POSP side of the business, what is your focus? Is it scale, or is it profitability over the next three, four years? Yeah, that would be my three questions. Thank you.

Speaker #6: And, you know, an interesting comment that you made was, you know, the top 100, distribut you know, currently contribute somewhere around 16% of your premiums, and you plan to bring that down.

Speaker #6: So just wanted to understand how do you plan that. And on the POSP side of the business, what is your focus? Is it scale, or is it profitability over the next, you know, three, four years?

Speaker #6: Yeah. That, that, that would be my three questions. Thank you.

Yashish Dahiya: Sarbvir, do you want to answer? Most of these are your areas.

Speaker #1: Sarbi, do you want to answer most of these, or should I?

Sarbvir Singh: Yeah, sure. Sukrit, I think in terms of the core model, I think the best way to understand it is that we have aligned ourselves with what the Chairman sir has also said, that channels should be paid as per the quality of business that they do, not just the volume of business that they do. Rather than getting into the details of the model, I would urge and encourage you to think along these lines, that it's really alignment of Policybazaar with the quality of business that we are bringing, and then overall economics that the whole ecosystem is getting, rather than just looking at us and insurance company separately. I think that, as you can imagine, that is a welcome step from an insurance company's perspective also.

Speaker #5: Yeah, sure. I think, Subratim, in terms of the core model, the best way to understand it is that we have aligned ourselves with, I think, what the Chairman Sir has also said: that channels should be paid as per the quality of business that they do, not just the volume of business that they do.

Speaker #5: So if you see, we have aligned ourselves I would rather than getting into the details of the model, I would urge and encourage you to think along these lines, that it's really alignment of policy bazaar, with the quality of business that we are bringing, and then overall economics, that the, you know, whole in ecosystem is getting, rather than just looking at us and insurance company separately.

Speaker #5: So I think that, as you can imagine, that is a welcome step for from an insurance company's perspective also, and from our perspective also, I think it encourages us to focus on the right things, right, which is double down on disclosure, making sure that the risk is well understood, making sure that, you know, we are focused on preventive healthcare, and now with PB Health coming online, I think that is going to be a big, focus area for us.

Sarbvir Singh: From our perspective also, I think it encourages us to focus on the right things, right? Which is double down on disclosure, making sure that the risk is well understood, making sure that we are focused on preventive healthcare. Now with PB Health coming online, I think that is going to be a big focus area for us. I think the core model is really around that stuff, and directionally, I would say it is well received, and so far it's going in the right direction. I think that's the only sustainable way for a platform and for an insurance company to work, because in the long run, both of us have to focus on the right things, making sure the customer does well, making sure that the insurance company does well, etc. I think that's on the health side.

Speaker #5: So I think it's the core model is really around that stuff. And I think directionally, I think it's, you know, I would say it is well received, and it's, so far, it's, it's going in the right direction.

Speaker #5: And I think that's the only sustainable way for, platform and for an insurance company to work. Because in the long run, you know, both of us have to focus on the right things, making sure the customer does well, making sure that the insurance company does well, and et cetera.

Speaker #5: So I think that that's kind of on the health side. On the TP side, on the retail direct to consumer, it's about in value terms, it's about 25%, 25 odd percent of our premium.

Sarbvir Singh: On the TP side, on the retail direct to consumer, in value terms, it's about 25 odd % of our premium. It's more in terms of number of policies. On the POSP front, it's almost half. Half our motor business would be TP. I will let Dhruv talk about the top 100, how he's going to reduce the percentage of business coming from the top 100. I just want to tell you that in terms of profitability versus scale, we are totally focused on scale. I think we are happy to invest money behind the business as long as it's an investment. I think investment versus expense are two different things. As long as we are investing in capabilities and serving our partners better, that's something that we will continue to do. We definitely believe that scale is the most important criteria for our POSP business.

Speaker #5: it's more in terms of number of policies. on the POSP front, it's almost half. So half our motor business would be TP. I will let Dhruv talk about the top 100, how he's going to reduce the percentage of business coming from the top 100.

Speaker #5: But I just want to tell you that in terms of profitability versus scale, we are totally focused on scale. I think we are happy to invest money behind the business, as long as it's an investment.

Speaker #5: I think, you know, investment versus expense are two different things. As long as we are investing in capabilities, in serving, our partners better, that's something that we will continue to do.

Speaker #5: And we definitely believe that scale is the most important criteria for our POSP business, over to Dhruv.

Sarbvir Singh: Over to Dhruv.

Speaker #1: I think reducing the dependence on the top 100, which is currently at about 16%, I think the only way to do it is spread more and more.

[Company Representative] (PB Fintech): I think reducing the dependence on the top 100, which is currently at about 16%, the only way to do it is spread more and more. Today, if we look at, and I am not sure if the numbers were published, there are roughly about give or take about 12 lakh GI agents, and we cater to roughly about 1.2 to 1.4 in a quarter. We have to take this higher. We have to increase the number of partners working with us. Yes, it is a slow process because the productivity of the partners is lower. It will take time, but the whole idea is that how can we capture a large share of the market, as well as go towards more tier 3, tier 4, where the productivity may be lower, but the number of partners are higher.

Speaker #1: Today, if we look at and I'm not sure if the numbers were published, we are there's roughly about give or take about 12 lakh GI agents.

Speaker #1: And we cater to roughly about 1.2 to 1.4 in a quarter. And we have to take this, you know, take this you know, higher.

Speaker #1: We have to increase the number of partners working with us. But yet, it's a slow process because the productivity of, you know, the partners is lower.

Speaker #1: It will take time, but the whole idea is that how can we capture a large share of the market, as well as go towards more tier three, tier four, where the productivity may be lower, but the number of partners is higher.

Speaker #1: So I think to add to everything, I think the focus is,

[Company Representative] (PB Fintech): I think to add towards everything, the focus is increasing scale.

Speaker #2: Focus. The focus is clearly increasing scale. I think both our core business and our overall business benefit from that scale. And, we would keep the focus on that.

Sarbvir Singh: The focus is clearly increasing scale. I think both our core business and our overall business benefit from that scale, and we would keep the focus on that.

Sukrit Dutta: Thanks a lot. Sarbvir, if possible, could you give us some color around the impact that there could be on the motor TP business because of this extension of the policy period?

[Analyst] (Goldman): Thanks a lot. Sarbvir, if possible, could you give us some color around the impact that there could be on the motor TP business because of this extension of the policy period?

Speaker #6: thanks a lot, and, you know, Sarbi, if possible, you know, could you give us some color around the impact that there could be on, you know, the motor TP business because of this extension of the policy period?

Speaker #5: I think Subratim, let's, see how it goes. As you can imagine, what will happen is that the brand new, ticket sizes will go up because of this.

Sarbvir Singh: I think, Supratim, let's see how it goes. As you can imagine, what will happen is that the brand new ticket sizes will go up because of this. That will help people who sell more brand-new insurance. For us, the really big opportunity could be what was in the judgment around the enforcement. If tomorrow the enforcement goes up, so as we saw in 2019, when the Motor Vehicle Act was enacted, those particular two months, I think the businesses went through the roof.

Speaker #5: that will help people who sell more brand new insurance. For us, the really big opportunity could be what was in the judgment around the enforcement.

Speaker #5: So if tomorrow the enforcement goes up, so as we saw in 2019, when the motor vehicle act was enacted, that those particular two months, I think the businesses went through the roof.

Speaker #5: And, so if, if the enforcement is, you know, super high as per the judgment, you know, I'm sure you've read the details, if those camera and, you know, fuel is not sold to people without third-party insurance, et cetera, then I can that could be a very meaningful jump for our business.

Sukrit Dutta: Got it.

[Analyst] (Goldman): Got it.

Sarbvir Singh: If the enforcement is super high as per the judgment, I'm sure you read the details. If those cameras and fuel is not sold to people without Third-Party insurance, etc., that could be a very meaningful jump for our business.

Speaker #5: But I think let's, let's wait and see. I wouldn't say anything, on that yet.

Sukrit Dutta: Yeah.

[Analyst] (Goldman): Yeah.

Sarbvir Singh: I think let's wait and see. I wouldn't say anything on that yet.

Speaker #6: Got it. Got it. Cool. Thank you.

Sukrit Dutta: Got it. Good. Thank you.

[Analyst] (Goldman): Got it. Good. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Subratim. Next question is from the line of Jayan Kharote from Axis Car. Please unmute your mic.

Mohit Khobragade: Thank you, Supratim. Next question is from the line of Jayant Kharote from Axis Capital. Please unmute your mic.

Speaker #6: thank you for the opportunity. Hello, am I audible?

Jayant Kharote: Thank you for the opportunity. Hello, am I audible?

Speaker #2: Yes. Yes, Jayan, you're on.

Yashish Dahiya: Yes, Jayant, you are.

Speaker #6: Yeah. First question is on the tier two, tier three opportunity. On the online business, not the POSP business, how has the mix of tier two, tier three markets grown in our online business over the last few years?

Jayant Kharote: Yeah. First question is on the tier 2, tier 3 opportunity on the online business, not the POSP business. How has the mix of tier 2, tier 3 markets grown in our online business over the last few years? What would be the strategy to accelerate that mix over the next three to five years? That is the first question. I'll come with the second and the third.

Speaker #6: And, what, what would be the strategy to sort of accelerate that mix over the next, three to five years? that is the first question.

Speaker #6: I'll, I'll come with the second and the third.

Speaker #5: So Jayan, I think, it's very, we are going the same way as a country is going. And I think tier two, tier three now, depending on the business, on the direct side, account for somewhere between 65 and 70 percent of the business.

Sarbvir Singh: Jayant, I think we are going the same way as the country is going, and I think tier 2, tier 3 now, depending on the business, on the direct side, account for somewhere between 65% and 70% of the business. This part is growing faster than the bigger cities. Having said that, for us, the bigger cities also continue to grow. It's not that one is growing and the other is declining or something. Both are growing. The growth rate is faster. Actually, if you ask me, the dynamic that has played out for us on the B2C business in the last three years is a different one, which is that the south has grown much faster than the north and the west. Yes, tier 2 to tier 3 have grown but the more dominant narrative or the trend has been the south growing.

Speaker #5: And this part is growing faster than the bigger cities. having said that, you know, for us, the bigger cities also continue to grow. So it's not that one is growing and the other is declining or something.

Speaker #5: Both are growing. The growth rate is faster. actually, if you ask me, the dynamic that has played out for us on the B2C business in the last three years is a different one, which is that the South has grown much faster than the North and the West.

Speaker #5: So the yes, tier two to tier three have grown, but a more dominant narrative or the trend has been the South growing. but yeah, we are also seeing the same thing that the.

Sarbvir Singh: Yeah, we are also seeing the same thing that the

Speaker #2: Which one, which one is a bit specific to us also because we were over-indexed to the North in the beginning.

Yashish Dahiya: Which was a bit specific to us also because we were over-indexed to the north in the beginning.

Speaker #5: Correct. Correct. Yes.

Sarbvir Singh: Correct. Yes.

Speaker #6: And when you say 60, 65, your B30, right, not B10?

Jayant Kharote: Ma'am, when you say 60, 65, you're B30, right? Not B10.

Speaker #5: Yeah. I mean, I'm not familiar with this terminology, but basically I'm saying if you leave out the top 10 cities, after that, we consider tier two, tier three.

Sarbvir Singh: Yeah. I'm not familiar with this terminology, basically I'm saying if you leave out the top 10 cities, after that, we consider tier 2, tier 3. Those cities are about 65% to 70% of our businesses.

Speaker #5: Those cities are about 65 to 70 percent of our businesses.

Speaker #6: Understood, understood. So second question was on Pesa Bazaar, and sorry to bring this question up every quarter. If you can help us, how the EBITDA has fared this quarter, because the full year expectation that we had when we, in our analyst meet discussions, was fairly sizable numbers.

Jayant Kharote: Understood. Second question was on Paisa Bazaar, and sorry to bring this question up every quarter. If you can help us, how the EBITDA has fared this quarter because the full year expectation that we had in our analyst meet discussions was fairly sizable numbers. How are we faring on that one in Q1?

Speaker #6: So how are we faring on, on that one in one Q?

Speaker #2: What did we—what did we say, Jayan—if you can, remind me, what did we say was the annual, approximately?

Yashish Dahiya: What did we say? Jayant, if you can remind me, what did we say was the annual approximately?

Speaker #6: approximately 100 crores.

Jayant Kharote: Approximately INR 100 crore?

Speaker #2: Yeah, yeah. I don't think it'll be 100 crores. I think we'll be, maybe at about half of that.

Yashish Dahiya: Yeah. I don't think it'll be INR 100 crore. I think we'll be maybe at about half of that.

Speaker #6: Okay. But, but this quarter is.

Jayant Kharote: Okay. This quarter is

Yashish Dahiya: Look, in the big scheme of things, quite immaterial in the big scheme of things. Yes, it'll be about half of that.

Speaker #2: But look, in the scheme of things, quite immaterial in the big scheme of things. But yes, it'll be about half of that.

Yashish Dahiya: Look, in the big scheme of things, quite immaterial in the big scheme of things. Yes, it'll be about half of that.

Speaker #6: have we broken even in, in this quarter?

Jayant Kharote: Have you broken even in this quarter?

Speaker #2: Yeah, yeah. We broke even. We were profitable this quarter. We were broke, we broke even this quarter. Is that, is that right?

Yashish Dahiya: Yeah, we broke even. We were profitable this quarter. We broke even this quarter. Is that right?

Sarbvir Singh: Great.

Speaker #6: Great.

Speaker #3: Minus six. Minus six.

Mandeep Mehta: INR -6.

Yashish Dahiya: Minus six. Yes. That's C-side. Operationally, we broke even.

Speaker #2: Minus six. So there's, there's, there's things right. Operationally, we broke even. Operationally.

Sarbvir Singh: Operationally.

Speaker #3: Operationally.

Mandeep Mehta: Operationally.

Speaker #2: Operationally. Operationally, we broke even. Yeah.

Yashish Dahiya: Operationally, we broke even, yeah.

Speaker #6: Great. Great. And last question is around, AI, which is, how, how have, anything that, that early harvest gains that you've identified, have you allocated more costs to, to tokens?

Jayant Kharote: Great. Last question is around AI, Yashish. Anything that early harvest gains that you identified, have you allocated more costs to tokens? If you can help us understand, have you drafted a strategy, how will you use AI over the next couple of quarters or next one or two years?

Speaker #6: If you can help us understand, have you drafted a strategy? How will you use AI over the next, couple of quarters or, or next one or two years?

Speaker #2: Yeah, yeah. So, Sarbi, take that.

Yashish Dahiya: Yeah. Sarbvir will take that.

Speaker #5: Yeah. So I think, Jayan, we—in the same meeting that you referenced—you know, we spoke about how we are changing our operating system.

Sarbvir Singh: Yeah. I think, Jayant, in the same meeting that you referenced, we spoke about that we are changing our operating system. When I say operating system, it means not just technology, but our business processes, et cetera, to take maximum advantage of AI. I think that is going extremely well. Roughly, we handle INR 10 crore customer interactions in a month, calls, emails, et cetera. Of those INR 10 crore, 30% to 40% are now being touched by AI, and that number is growing. I think we've had some very big wins in terms of improving our sales productivity, in terms of our advisors seeing information that is relevant to them at the right time, when they're talking to a customer, what their questions are, what objections are being raised, how do they respond to them.

Speaker #5: And when I say operating system, it means not just technology, but our business processes, et cetera, to take maximum advantage of AI. And I think that is, going extremely well.

Speaker #5: roughly, after we, we handle 10 crore customer interactions in a month, calls, you know, emails, et cetera, et cetera. Of those, 10 crores, 40, 30 to 40 percent are now being touched by AI.

Speaker #5: And that number is growing. I think we've had some very big wins in terms of improving our sales productivity. in terms of our advisors, seeing information that is relevant to them at the right time you know, what, what when they're talking to a customer, what their questions are, what objections are being raised, how do they respond to them.

Speaker #5: If they get a second call, knowing what happened in the previous call, et cetera, brochures being sent, documents being sent. So I think a lot of improvement on the sales productivity side.

Sarbvir Singh: If they get a second call, knowing what happened in the previous call, et cetera, brochures being sent, documents being sent. I think a lot of improvement on the sales productivity side. On the risk side, I think we've spoken in the past also, we've done a lot of work on risk. I think last year we saved INR 10,000 crore of sum assured, roughly INR 10,000 crore of sum assured. I think our risk models continue to evolve. On the customer service side, I think, I would say that is one area where in the last two quarters we made a lot of progress. A lot remains, but 20% to 30% of all our interactions are now being sort of automatically handled. A lot of single collection of documents, giving updates, a lot of those are being done by bots rather than by human beings.

Speaker #5: On the risk side, I think we've spoken in the past also, we've done a lot of work on, on risk. I think last year we saved 10,000 crores of some assured, roughly 10,000 crores of some assured, and I think our risk models continue to evolve.

Speaker #5: On the customer service side, I think, I would say that that is one area where in the last two quarters we made a lot of progress.

Speaker #5: A lot remains. But, 20 to 30 percent of all are now interactions are being, sort of automatically handled. A lot of single collection of documents, given updates, a lot of those are being done, by bots rather than by human beings.

Speaker #5: And I think this is freeing up human beings to focus on quality interactions with customers, you know, whether those are claims, those are service issues, those are issuance problems.

Sarbvir Singh: I think this is freeing up human beings to focus on quality interactions with customers. Whether those are claims, those are service issues, those are issuance problems. I think we are freeing up our team to do more, I would say, meaningful work while AI is handling the rest. In terms of tokens, et cetera, Jayant, in my opinion, it's a bit shallow to look at things in terms of saying how many tokens are we burning, because if we were to set that benchmark, our team would burn our entire EBITDA in tokens. I think that's not what we want to encourage. I think we want to encourage outcome. The whole focus is on outcome. When I say efficiency, how many percentage less people do we need to hire so that we can deliver the same amount of sales?

Speaker #5: So I think we are freeing up our team to do more, I would say, meaningful work while AI is handling, the rest. in terms of tokens, et cetera, Jayan, I think it's a bit in my opinion, it's a bit shallow to look at things in terms of saying how many tokens are we burning because, you know, if we were to set that benchmark, our team would burn our entire EBITDA in tokens.

Speaker #5: But, I think, that's not what we want to encourage. I think we want to encourage outcome. The whole focus is on outcomes as to when we, when I say efficiency, how many percentage less people do we need to hire so that we can deliver the same amount of sales.

Speaker #5: you know, how many fewer customer service people are needed for as we grow our business. So I think that's what we really want to focus on.

Sarbvir Singh: How many fewer customer service people are needed as we grow our business? I think that's what we really want to focus on. Finally, if you ask me, the real game is to give a A+ customer experience to our customers. Because if we can do that, the value of that is just enormous. That's something that we really would like to drive.

Speaker #5: And finally, if you ask me, the real game is to give an A-plus customer experience to our customers. Because if we can do that, the value of that is just enormous.

Speaker #5: And, that's something that we really would like to drive.

Speaker #6: Great, great. Thanks, Sarbi. Thanks. This is—and congrats on a great setup.

Jayant Kharote: Great. Thanks, Sarbvir. Thanks, Yashish. Congrats on a great set of numbers.

Speaker #2: Thank you. Yeah, I do, Jayan. Next question is from the line of Manas.

Mohit Khobragade: Thank you, Jayant.

Mohit Khobragade: Thank you, Jayant. Next question is from the line of Manas Agrawal from Bernstein.

Speaker #6: Hi, team. Am I audible?

Manas Agrawal: Hi, team. Am I audible?

Speaker #2: Absolutely.

Yashish Dahiya: Absolutely.

Speaker #6: Perfect. Thank you for the opportunity, great numbers, but I'm sorry to pull you back to regulations. I hear your comment. there was also a separate discussion around dark patterns.

Manas Agrawal: Perfect. Thank you for the opportunity. Great numbers, I am sorry to pull you back to regulations. I hear your comment. There was also a separate discussion around dark patterns. Wanted to understand how much of our sales on the core side would be coming from follow-ups that we get from the numbers that we collect. That is one. The second question is more on H2 base on the new would be very high, I suppose. What is the right way to think of it? Because insurers seem to be guiding towards a softer H2. Want to understand how you guys are thinking about it. Third, I will come back after you have answered these two. That is on the AI side. Just wanted to get some more numbers.

Speaker #6: So wanted to understand how much of our sales on the core side would be coming from follow-ups that we get from the numbers that we collect.

Speaker #6: That is one. The second question is more on H2 base, on the new would be very high, I suppose. So what is the right way to think of it?

Speaker #6: Because insurers seem to be guiding towards a softer H2. But, want to understand how you guys are thinking about it. And third, I'll come back, after you've answered these two.

Speaker #6: That is on the AI side. I just wanted to get some more numbers. I think your analyst presentation gave a 40% productive use time at the call center level.

Manas Agrawal: I think your analyst presentation gave a 40% productive use time at the call center level, and the aspiration was to go to 90. I think Sarbvir also talked about some of this, but wanted more clarity, because if you go from 40 to 90, the number of people at your call center required just stagnates. Want to understand what is happening and when should we expect something like that to happen.

Speaker #6: And the aspiration was to go to 90. I think Sarbi also talked about some of this, but wanted more clarity because if you go from 40 to 90, the number of people at your call center required just stagnates.

Speaker #6: So want to understand what's happening and when should we expect something like that to happen.

Speaker #2: I think we'll definitely happen. But first of all, see, a dark pattern almost by definition requires some form of deception. We're not deceiving any dampers.

Yashish Dahiya: I think will definitely happen. First of all, a dark pattern, almost by definition, requires some form of deception. We are not deceiving any damn person. We are saying we need your number. That is it. It is as simple as that. We need your number. We are not saying that in a deceptive manner. It is right out there on the first page. You open the page, it is right out there. I don't see what the dark pattern is. Opinions are plenty, but eventually this will be decided in courts at some point, right? I think, of course, calling and reaching out to people and converting, I said in the beginning, there are two primary parts. One is generating inquiries, and second is converting inquiries. Both of those are heavy efforts. At this moment, if phone numbers are not collected, generating inquiries becomes far more expensive.

Speaker #2: We're saying we need your number. That's it. It's as simple as that. We need your number. And we're not saying that in a deceptive manner.

Speaker #2: It's right out there on the first page. If you open the page, it's right out there. So I don't see what the dark pattern is, also.

Speaker #2: Opinions are plenty. But eventually, this will be decided in courts, at some point. Right? I think, of course, calling and reaching out to people and converting—I said in the beginning—there are two primary parts.

Speaker #2: One is generating inquiries. And second is converting inquiries. And both of those are heavy efforts. And at this moment, if phone numbers are not collected, generating inquiries will become far more expensive.

Speaker #2: Yes, converting inquiries might actually become easier. So you might see marketing cost, like, look, first of all, let's, let's hold our horses, right? Let this come to some conclusion.

Yashish Dahiya: Yes, converting inquiries might actually become easier. You might see marketing costs. Look, first of all, let's hold our horses. Let this come to some conclusion. We have way too many conversations in our industry. Eventually, things move at their own pace and in the right direction. Globally, if you look at even GEICO, if you look in the UK, there is nobody who is providing insurance quotes at scale, even in products like motor insurance, without collecting a mobile number. MoneySuperMarket does not do it, Confused.com does not do it. Compare the Market, and they have all dark patterns and DPDP, whatever. Europe is, I am assuming, ahead of us in all those things. I guess, let this play out. H2 base, clearly, Q3. I think Shaip should answer this, but clearly Q3 was a very special quarter last year.

Speaker #2: We have way too many conversations in our industry. Eventually, things you know, move at their own pace. And in the right direction. and globally, if you look at even GEICO, if you look in the UK, there is nobody who is providing insurance quotes at scale.

Speaker #2: Even in products like motor insurance, without collecting a mobile number. Manisuku market does not do it. Confuse.com does not do it. Compare the market, and they have all dark patterns and DPDP, whatever.

Speaker #2: Europe is, I'm assuming, ahead of us in all those things. So I, I guess, let this play out. H2 base, clearly, Q3, I think Sarbi, you should answer this, but, but clearly Q3 was a very special quarter last year.

Speaker #2: And, yeah.

Speaker #5: Yeah, I think, Manas, I mean, there’s not much to say, right? I mean, clearly, the demand that we saw in Q3 last year was above average, above trend, et cetera, et cetera.

Sarbvir Singh: Yeah, I think, Manas, there's not much to say. Clearly, the demand that we saw in Q3 last year was above average, above trend, et cetera. Yeah, I think some degree of I would not call it a slowdown. See, we've always said that 30% is our target. If we grow 60% and from 60 we come down somewhere, then I'm not sure. Think about it. I think our goal is to make sure that we try and maintain above-market growth rates, and I think that's what we are focused on, and the maths will fall where it will. Yeah, and I think on the AI side, if I can take that question, I'm not sure about the 40%-90% kind of number, Manas, but we are definitely seeing improvement in productivity.

Speaker #5: So yeah, I think some degree of, you know, if you I mean, I would not call it a slowdown. See, we've always said that 30% is our target.

Speaker #5: If we grow 60% and if we from 60, we come down somewhere, then I'm m not sure think about it. I think our goal is to make sure that we, you know, try and maintain above market growth rates.

Speaker #5: And I think that's what we are focused on. And the maths will fall where it will. yeah, and I think on the AI side, if I, if I can take that question, I, I'm not sure about the 40, 90% kind of number, Manas, but we are definitely seeing improvement in productivity.

Speaker #5: And yes, that will mean that perhaps we need to hire less number of people for the same amount of business. having said that, you know, we are an ambitious lot.

Sarbvir Singh: Yes, that will mean that perhaps we need to hire less number of people for the same amount of business. Having said that, we are an ambitious lot. I don't think we are trying to optimize for people. We are trying to grow our business. That's why I said that for me, the real test of AI is not cost efficiency. The real test of AI is to increase the conversion, is to increase our business level. I'm really hopeful that our team, we have a very talented team, and they are focused on it and will find ways, and that will allow us both to grow the number of people and the number of business while implementing AI.

Speaker #5: I don't think we are trying to optimize for people. We are trying to grow our business. And that's why I said that for me, the, the real test of AI is not cost, cost efficiency.

Speaker #5: The real test of AI is to increase the conversion is to increase our business level. And I'm really hopeful that, you know, our team, you know, we have a very talented team and they are focused on it.

Speaker #5: And we'll find ways and that will allow us, you know, both to grow the number of people and the number of business while implementing AI.

Speaker #2: See, from a three-year targeting perspective, internally, when we have set targets for our business, like, of course, there are detailed targets, but the P1 target is fresh business growth.

Yashish Dahiya: See, from a three-year targeting perspective, internally, when we have set targets for our business, of course, there are detailed targets, but the P1 target is fresh business growth. Everybody's told, look, if fresh business growth doesn't happen, then everything else is a bit meaningless. Of course, efficiency can be driven very rapidly. That's a very clear communication, and we don't have two communications. There's the same one for the investors, there's the same one for the employees, there's the same one to everybody amongst us, and to our partners. That's the phase we are in. I guess, what I would like to believe in that is that we are like a young company which is still not at a mature stage where we are growing at 10%-12% per year kind of story. We are still very aspirational. We want to grow.

Speaker #2: And everybody is told, look, if fresh business growth doesn't happen, then everything else is a bit meaningless. Of course, efficiency can be driven very rapidly.

Speaker #2: But that's a very clear communication. And we don't have two communications. It's the same one to the investors. It's the same one to the employees.

Speaker #2: It's the same one to, you know, everybody amongst us. and to our partners. so that's the phase we are in. I guess what I would like to believe in that is that we are like a young company which is still, you know, not at a mature stage where we you know, are growing at 10%, 12% per year kind of story.

Speaker #2: we are, we are still very aspirational. We want to grow. And if that means we hire more people and some of that is actually wastage, look, please appreciate we're not wasteful people, but that is better to do than to not grow because we did not have people.

Yashish Dahiya: If that means we hire more people and some of that is actually wastage, look, please appreciate we're not wasteful people, but that is better to do than to not grow because we did not have people for whatever reason.

Speaker #2: For, for whatever reason.

Speaker #6: Got it. Thank you, guys.

Manas Agrawal: Got it. Thank you, guys.

Speaker #5: Thank you, Manas. Next question is from the lineup, Shreya Shivani, from Dhumura. Shreya, please unmute your mic.

Mohit Khobragade: Thank you, Manas. Next question is from the line of Shreya Shivani from Nomura. Shreya, please unmute your line.

Speaker #4: Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. my first question is on the expense bit. So, usually, I mean, this, this was the trend last year that your expenses outside contribution as percentage of revenue was at 61% or so.

Shreya Shivani: Yeah, hi. Thank you for the opportunity. I have two questions. My first question is on the expense bit. Usually, this was the trend last year, that your expenses outside contribution as percentage of revenue was at 61% or so. Then through the remaining three quarters, it kept declining and stuff. This year, Q1, you started at 58%. That means there has been some cost measures that have taken place. What are those? Anything you'd like to highlight over there, and what should be the trajectory for the next three quarters? My second question is a bit on the call center employees. I wanted to understand where does the cost for that entire thing goes in terms of, is it in the employee benefit expenses or the other expenses? Some clarity around that will be useful. Sorry, last one more question.

Speaker #4: And then through the remaining three quarters, it kept declining, and stuff. So this year, 1Q, you have started at 58%. That means there has been some cost measures that have taken place.

Speaker #4: what are those? Anything you'd like to highlight over there? And how should be the trajectory for the next three quarters? my second question is a bit on, the call center employees.

Speaker #4: I wanted to understand where does the cost for that entire thing goes, in terms of, is it in the employee benefit, expenses, or the other expenses?

Speaker #4: Some clarity around that would be useful. And sorry, last one more question, just, just a data keeping point, on the, either the POSP premiums, if you can give, or the corporate premiums that you can share.

Shreya Shivani: Just a data keeping point on either the POSP premiums, if you can give, or the corporate premiums that you can share and PB Connect revenues for the quarter. The same was about INR 43 crore in Q1 2026. It will help me understand how is that book moving as of now. Thank you.

Speaker #4: And PB Connect revenues for the quarter. It was about, the same was about 43 crores in 1Q26. It'll help me understand how does that how is that booked, moving, as of now.

Speaker #4: Thank you.

Speaker #2: so first thing, Shivani, Shreya, Shreya, Shreya, sorry. Shreya, 61 moving to 58. See, our revenue grew 41, 46, depending on which business you look at, grew in the at the 40% range, right?

Yashish Dahiya: First thing, Shreya, sorry. Shreya, 61 moving to 58. See, our revenue grew 41% and 46%, depending on which business you look at, grew at the 40% range, right? It just means the costs grew 3% overall less. Instead of being 1.4, the costs were more like 1.35. What I want to clarify, because that communication is very clear. There was no particular intent to reduce the cost. It is just the cost grew at 35% and the revenue grew at 40%. That's all. We are not in a phase where we are. There was a statement that I read long back. I have a habit of connecting things. It was the Indian Army. I haven't started to fight yet. All I'm saying is we haven't started efficiency yet. That will come at some point, but it's not time for that yet.

Speaker #2: It just means the costs grew 3% overall less. So 1.4, instead of being 1.4, the costs were more like 1.35. So what I want to clarify, because that's that communication is very, very clear.

Speaker #2: There was no particular intent to reduce the cost. It's just that costs grew at 35% and revenue grew at 40%. That's all.

Speaker #2: And, we are not in a phase where we are you know, there was a statement in the, that the, I read long back, I have a habit of connecting things with the Indian Army.

Speaker #2: I haven't started to fight yet. So all I'm saying is we haven't started efficiency yet. you know, that, that will come at some point, but it's not time for that yet.

Speaker #2: I guess call center Mandeep, can you explain this, do you get the question? The call center part?

Yashish Dahiya: I guess, Mandeep, can you explain this? Do you get the question, the call center part?

Speaker #3: The cost.

Mandeep Mehta: The cost line.

Shreya Shivani: Line.

Speaker #2: Which line item is it from?

Yashish Dahiya: Which line item is it from?

Mandeep Mehta: All employee costs are in employee benefit expenses.

Speaker #3: Yeah, the all employees cost are in employee benefit expenses.

Speaker #2: Okay, they're all in employee benefit expenses. And POSP corporate, first of all, PB Connect. PB Connect, we made a strategic decision to no longer do the consolidation part of the business.

Yashish Dahiya: Okay. They're all in employee benefit expenses. POSP corporate. First of all, PB Connect.

Mandeep Mehta: Yeah.

Yashish Dahiya: PB Connect, we made a strategic decision to no longer do the consolidation part of the business, it should be about 73% down or so.

Speaker #2: So it should be about 73% down or so, but. Yeah, it's exactly 73% down. but that's because we have cut out one part of the business.

Mandeep Mehta: Yeah.

Yashish Dahiya: Yeah. It's exactly 73% down. That's because we have cut out one part of the business. The other part of the business is growing very well. Exactly what is factored in POSP. See, in POSP, there's no good doing consolidated business. It's very good to do retail, small partners business. We just stopped the consolidated business last year. While that 73% down, that might have been 90% of the business then.

Speaker #2: Other parts of the business are growing very well. So, exactly what is expected in POSP? See, in POSP, there's no good in doing consolidated business.

Speaker #2: There's very good to do retail, small, small partners business. And so we just stopped the consolidated business last year. and while we have 73% down, that might have been 90% of the business then.

Mandeep Mehta: It was zero.

Speaker #2: It was zero. The rest of the business did not exist, so the remaining part has just grown from there.

Yashish Dahiya: It was zero. The rest of the business did not exist. The remaining part has just grown from there.

Speaker #4: Right. So you're saying PB Connect, okay, I, I got the part that we had backed out. so, this PB Connect revenue for, for that matter, incrementally, it's not something that becomes I mean, that's not an area we would want to scale up at all, right?

Shreya Shivani: Right. You're saying PB Connect, okay, I got the part that we had backed out. This PB Connect revenue for that matter, incrementally, it's not something that becomes. That's not an area we would want to scale up at all, right?

Speaker #2: No, no, we are going to scale up PB Connect, but not.

Yashish Dahiya: No, no, we are going to scale up PB Connect, but not-

Speaker #4: Okay, not from that segment.

Shreya Shivani: Okay. Not from that segment. Okay.

Speaker #2: Okay. Going to scale up the, the retail side. So these are the retail and wholesale side. We don't want to do wholesale. We're doing retail.

Yashish Dahiya: We're going to scale up the retail side. See, there's a retail and a wholesale side. We don't want to do wholesale, we're doing retail.

Speaker #4: Right. So any revenue numbers you can share? I mean, I'm.

Shreya Shivani: Right. Any revenue numbers you can share because.

Yashish Dahiya: How much is the revenue?

Speaker #2: No, how much is the revenue this year? 12 crores. It's 12 crores right now from the retail side.

Mandeep Mehta: INR 12 crores.

Yashish Dahiya: INR 12 crores. It's INR 12 crores right now from the retail side.

Speaker #4: From the retail? Because the entire wholesale is out, for now.

Shreya Shivani: From the retail, because the entire wholesale is out for now.

Speaker #2: Yeah, entire wholesale is gone. We stopped it altogether.

Yashish Dahiya: Yeah. Entire wholesale is gone. We stopped it altogether.

Speaker #4: Right, right. and just a clarity, all your call center, every expense from that is in the employee cost line item only, right? That, that I've understood correctly, right?

Shreya Shivani: Right. Just a clarity, all your call center, every expense from that is in the employee cost line item only, right? That I've understood correctly, right?

Speaker #2: Yes, yes, yes.

Yashish Dahiya: Yes.

Speaker #3: And all the employee related, if you call the rental of the call center, this will be a different line. So qualifying that all employee cost are in employee benefits.

Mandeep Mehta: All the employee related, if you take the rental of the call center, this will be a different line.

Shreya Shivani: Got it.

Mandeep Mehta: Qualifying that all employee costs are in employee benefits.

Speaker #2: And talk about call centers. See, there are a lot of other moving parts. There's AI and product improvements. There are mixed change. There are change between the, you know, mix between new and renewals.

Shreya Shivani: Sure. Understood.

Mandeep Mehta: If you talk about call centers, see, there are a lot of other moving parts. There's AI and product instruments. There are mix change, there are change between new and renewals, different verticals.

Speaker #2: Different verticals.

Speaker #4: Mm-hmm.

Speaker #2: how many people you needed servicing? How many people you needed renewals? All that stuff combines you know, we have to give you an example.

Mandeep Mehta: How many people you need in servicing, how many people you need in renewals, all that stuff combines. Just to give you an example, we have done this in past also. At the time of IPO, to reach here, Sandison was about 2 hours talk time. Today it will be your 35, 40-minute talk time.

Speaker #2: We have talked this in past also. At the time of IPO, each health standard was about two hours top time. Today, it will be about 35, 40 minutes top time.

Shreya Shivani: Yeah.

Speaker #2: You know, so, you know, lots and lots of small, small things have to happen. And, you obviously try to do everything but the impact will be incremental every time.

Mandeep Mehta: Lots and lots of small things have to happen, you obviously try to do everything, but the impact will be incremental every time. Since we are adding new people, sometimes that incremental effort may not be reflecting the numbers immediately. Suppose we are trying to build out the South India or some new city, or we are trying to build out the physical teams. Day one, they will not be efficient. It's not a very easy answer in a single number.

Speaker #2: And, since we are having new people, sometimes that incremental effort may not be reflecting the numbers immediately. Suppose we are trying to build out the South India or some new city or we are trying to build out the physical teams.

Speaker #2: Day one, they will not be efficient. So, you know, it's not a very easy answer in a single number.

Speaker #4: Okay.

Shreya Shivani: Okay.

Speaker #2: And, and Shreya, just to give you a clarification on this, see, Q1, and this is for everybody, Q1 is obviously the weakest quarter in the year.

Yashish Dahiya: Shreya, just to give you a clarification on this. See, Q1, and this is for everybody, Q1 is obviously the weakest quarter in the year. Q4 is the biggest quarter in the year. There is really no reason to expand employees. If you're going for efficiency, the first thing you would do is you would hire nobody whatsoever in Q1. That's an obvious one, right?

Speaker #2: And Q4 is the biggest quarter in the year. There is really no reason to expand employees from if you're going for efficiency, the first thing you would do is you would hire nobody whatsoever.

Speaker #2: In Q1. That's a, that's an obvious one, right? We hired on a at a gross level, 5,000 people in Q1. That explains to you how much we are trying to reduce cost.

Yashish Dahiya: We hired at a gross level, 5,000 people in Q1. That explains to you how much we are trying to reduce cost. Right? Most of those 5,000 will not be productive in Q1, for sure. Right?

Speaker #2: Right? Because most of those 5,000 will not be productive in Q1, for sure, right? So even in a even a quarter like Q1, we are expanding employees.

Yashish Dahiya: Even a quarter like Q1, we are expanding employees. We are also expanding what we are doing in terms of marketing. You guys saw we tied up with Amitabh Bachchan. This is all happening in Q1, right? We're not holding back in terms of growth.

Speaker #2: And, you know, we are also expanding what we are doing in terms of marketing. You guys saw we tied up with Amitabh Bachchan. This is all happening in Q1.

Speaker #2: Right? So we're not holding back in terms of growth.

Speaker #4: Got it. this is useful. Just any of those number, either corporate, books insurance premium or POSP premium.

Shreya Shivani: Got it. This is useful. Just any of those numbers, either corporate books, insurance premium, or POSP premium.

Speaker #2: Yeah, yeah. Of course, we can give you that.

Yashish Dahiya: Yeah. Of course, we can give you that.

Speaker #4: Yeah.

Shreya Shivani: Yeah.

Speaker #2: POSP will be declared, I think.

Mandeep Mehta: POSP will be declared, I think.

Speaker #3: Yeah.

Yashish Dahiya: Yeah. Once we declare. Corporate is about INR 500 crores. POSP is about INR 1,600 crores.

Speaker #2: So corporate is about ₹500 crores. POSP is about ₹1,600 crores. Dubai is about the same, about ₹4,500 crores, ₹500 crores.

Shreya Shivani: Yeah.

Yashish Dahiya: Dubai is about same, about INR 400 or 500 crores. INR 500 crores.

Speaker #4: Right, right. Thank you so much. All the best.

Shreya Shivani: Right. Thank you so much. All the best.

Speaker #2: Thank you. Thank you, Shreya. We would now take next, next questions on the line of Nilesh Jen. Nilesh, please unmute your mic.

Yashish Dahiya: Thank you.

Mohit Khobragade: Thank you, Shreya. We would now take next question from the line of Nidhesh Jain. Nidhesh, please unmute your mic.

Speaker #5: Morning.

Nidhesh Jain: Morning. I have two questions. First question is if you can share EBITDA margin and contribution margins for the quarter. Second question is.

Speaker #2: so I have two questions. First question is, if you can share Abitta Margin and contribution margins for, for the quarter. And second question is, Abitta Margin was 9%, I thought.

Yashish Dahiya: EBITDA margin was 9%, I thought.

Mandeep Mehta: That's a PAT margin.

Speaker #2: That's a flat margin.

Yashish Dahiya: Can you please repeat your voice? It was not very audible.

Speaker #3: Can you please repeat your voice for that?

Nidhesh Jain: He said EBITDA margin and contribution margin. Those we must have put in the presentation.

Speaker #2: He said Abitta Margin and contribution margin. Those we must have put in the.

Speaker #3: Abitta Margin of core business?

Yashish Dahiya: EBITDA margin of whole business?

Nidhesh Jain: Of the Paisabazaar business.

Speaker #2: of the business.

Speaker #3: Paisa Bazaar.

Yashish Dahiya: Paisabazaar.

Mandeep Mehta: Already.

Speaker #2: Ready.

Speaker #3: Paisa Bazaar's business has just broken even on an operating basis. And, on the contribution side, the margin is about 41%.

Yashish Dahiya: Paisabazaar business is just broken even on the operating basis.

Sarbvir Singh: On the contribution side, our margin was 41%.

Speaker #2: On the contribution side is 41%. So it's pretty much like as high as Policy Bazaar on the contribution side.

Yashish Dahiya: On the contribution side, it's 41%. It's pretty much as high as Policybazaar on the contribution side.

Speaker #3: Sure, sure. the second question is on savings business. So, in the life insurance, savings business, the growth has been slightly subdued. But my question is actually on the reputation risk that the that the platform has.

Nidhesh Jain: Sure. The second question is on savings business. In the life insurance savings business, the growth has been slightly subdued. My question is actually on the reputation risk that the platform has. In case the investment product that we are selling, where the performance is bad in future and customer loses money, how do we see reputation risk for Policybazaar? That experience could impact future business for our platform and the experience for the customers.

Speaker #3: because in case the investment product that we are selling, where the performance is bad, in future, and customer loses money, how do we see reputation risk for Policy Bazaar?

Speaker #3: Because that experience could impact future business for our platform and the experience for the customer.

Speaker #2: I think Nilesh, obviously there is some kind of, you know, dramatic downturn or something one can't, you know, talk about that. But last two years have been interesting, right?

Mandeep Mehta: I think, Nidhesh, obviously, there is some kind of dramatic downturn or something. One can't talk about that. Last two years have been interesting, right? The markets haven't done much. If you see our persistency, et cetera, see, finally, persistency tells you the answer, right?

Speaker #2: We've not—the markets haven't done much. And if you see, you know, our persistency, etc., see, finally persistency tells you the answer, right? So the persistency has been about 100 basis points lower than at its best, but that's all.

Sarbvir Singh: The persistency has been about 100 basis points lower than at its best, but that's all. There's a reason for that. The reason it happens is that the person who buys from Policybazaar buys very clearly. First, the sales process tells them that it's an equity-linked product. Secondly, we have a verification process. All policies that we sell, our independent team calls the customer and ensures that they have understood the product that they have bought. From a product perspective. The third thing, which is equally important, we sell the lowest cost ULIPs in the market. Actually, many of our ULIPs, and I feel that they are so poorly understood actually, even by the financial community. Many of the ULIPs that we sell have lower cost structures than mutual funds, despite the mortality expense that they have.

Speaker #2: And the reason there's a reason for that. The reason it happens is that the person who buys from Policy Bazaar buys very clearly, we first the sales process tells them that it's a, you know, it's a equity-linked product.

Speaker #2: Secondly, we have a verification process. So all policies that we sell, independent team calls the customer and ensures that they have understood the product that they have bought.

Speaker #2: So from a, you know, from a product perspective, and then the third thing, which is equally important, we sell the lowest cost ULIPs in the market.

Speaker #2: So actually many of our ULIPs and I, and I feel that they are so poorly understood, actually, even by the financial community. But many of our ULIPs that we sell, I have lower cost structures than mutual funds.

Speaker #2: Despite the mortality expense that they have. In many cases, the mortality expense is paid back. In many cases, because there's a tax, I mean, all ULIPs below two and a half lakh rupees have a tax advantage.

Sarbvir Singh: In many cases, the mortality expense is paid back. In many cases, because there's a tax, all ULIPs below two and a half lakh rupees have a tax advantage. Actually, the products that we are selling, and I say that responsibly as the owner of many ULIPs, are very good products, actually. I think you guys should talk more about it, because I think we do ourselves a disservice that ULIPs have a problem in the past. Today, at least on Policybazaar, we don't have a problem. We sell very good products, and yes, we depend on our customers' understanding of the product. I feel that they understand what they are buying, and hence, we are less likely to have any kind of challenges because of that.

Speaker #2: So actually the products that we are selling, and I say that responsibly as the owner of many ULIPs, you know, are very, very good products, actually.

Speaker #2: And I think you guys should talk more about it, because I think we do ourselves a disservice that, you know, ULIPs had a problem in the past, but today, at least on PolicyBazaar, they don't have a problem.

Speaker #2: So, we sell very good products. And yes, we depend on our customers' understanding of the product, and yes, you know, I feel that they understand what they are buying.

Speaker #2: And hence, we are less likely to have any kind of challenges because of that.

Speaker #3: Sure. And last question is on PB Money. If you can share the number of active users or total users on the PB Money platform.

Yashish Dahiya: Sure. Last question is on PB Money. If you can share the number of active users or total users on PB Money platform.

Speaker #2: So I think there are, there are two things. PB Money is a PFM product that we had launched. There are roughly about 11 lakh consumers on that platform right now.

Santosh Agarwal: I think there are two things. PB Money is a PSM product that we had launched. There are roughly about 11 lakh consumers on that platform right now. It was basically a platform that told people about their entire savings in one place. We have also now launched a entity that's called PB Money, the bonds business. We've taken our license to bonds business, and that entity is called PB Money. That is yet to be launched.

Speaker #2: It was basically a platform that, you know, people told people about in their entire savings in, one place. We have also now launched a entity that's called PB Money.

Speaker #2: The bonds business—we've taken a license to do bonds business. And that entity is called PB Money. That is yet to be launched.

Speaker #3: So end of August, a lot of things are going to get launched. The bonds, the single-day payments, a lot of, a lot of things are going to get launched.

Yashish Dahiya: End of August, lot of things are going to get launched. The bonds, the single-day payments, lot of things are going to get launched. We've already been doing bonds in partnership with somebody, but now we're going to do it on our own platform.

Speaker #3: We've already, already doing bonds in partnership with somebody, but now we're going to do it on our own platform.

Speaker #2: Sure, thank you. That's it from my side.

Sarbvir Singh: Sure. Thank you. That's it from my side.

Speaker #3: Thank you, Nilesh.

Mohit Khobragade: Thank you, Yashish.

Speaker #2: And as we do bonds, our strategy is, is one of making sure that, you know, because there are bonds in which customers can lose money, of diversifying their, their investments.

Yashish Dahiya: As we do bonds, our strategy is one of making sure that, because there are bonds in which customer can lose money, of diversifying their investments so that we help them choose 10 bonds or something of that sort. That's the broad strategy to make sure there's some level of protection beyond the bond they're investing in.

Speaker #2: So that we help them, you know, choose 10 bonds or something of that sort. That's the broad strategy, to kind of make sure there's some level of protection beyond the bond they're investing in.

Speaker #3: Sure. Thank you, Nilesh. With this, we conclude our quarter one earnings conference call. Thank you everyone for joining us, for further queries if you have anything, please reach out to Mr. Deshmukh.

Mohit Khobragade: Sure. Thank you, Yashish. With this, we conclude our Q1 earnings conference call. Thank you everyone for joining us. For further queries, if you have anything, please reach out to the investor relations. Thank you. Thank you.

Speaker #3: Thank you so.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Santosh Agarwal: Thank you.

Operator 2: Goodbye

Operator: Goodbye

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Q1 2027 PB Fintech Ltd Earnings Call

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