Q1 2027 Kiri Industries Ltd Earnings Call

August 13, 2026

Speaker #1: Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Kiri Industries Limited Q1 FY2027 earnings conference call, hosted by Valorum Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes.

Operator 2: Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Kiri Industries Limited Q1 FY2027 earnings conference call hosted by Valorem Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Purvangi Jain from Valorem Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to the Kiri Industries Limited Q1 FY 2027 earnings conference call hosted by Valorem Advisors. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Ms. Purvangi Jain from Valorem Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, ma'am.

Speaker #1: Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal an operator by pressing star, then zero, on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.

Speaker #1: I now hand the conference over to Mr. Wang Yijian from Valorum Advisors. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Speaker #2: Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and a very warm welcome to you all. My name is Ms. Wang Yijian from Valorum Advisors. We represent the investor relations of Kiri Industries Limited.

Purvangi Jain: Thank you. Good morning, everyone, and a very warm welcome to you all. My name is Purvangi Jain from Valorem Advisors. We represent the investor relations of Kiri Industries Limited. On behalf of the company, I would like to thank you all for participating in the company's earnings conference call for the first quarter of the financial year 2027. Before we begin, I would like to mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today's earnings call may be forward-looking in nature. Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management's belief as well as assumptions made by, and information currently available to the management. Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements in making any investment decisions.

Speaker #2: On behalf of the company, I would like to thank you all for participating in the company's earnings conference call for the first quarter of the financial year 2027.

Speaker #2: Before we begin, I would like to mention a short cautionary statement. Some of the statements made in today’s earnings call may be forward-looking in nature.

Speaker #2: Such forward-looking statements are subject to risks and uncertainties, which could cause actual results to differ from those anticipated. Such statements are based on management's belief, as well as assumptions made by and information currently available to the management.

Speaker #2: Audiences are cautioned not to place any undue reliance on these forward-looking statements when making any investment decisions. The purpose of today's earnings conference call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and the financial quarter under review.

Purvangi Jain: The purpose of today's earnings conference call is purely to educate and bring awareness about the company's fundamental business and financial quarter under review. I would now like to introduce you to the management participating with us in the conference call. We have with us Mr. Manish Kiri, Chairman and Managing Director, Mr. Jayesh Hirani, Vice President, Accounts and Finance, Mr. Suresh Gondalia, Company Secretary, and Mr. Ranjit Singh Chugh, CEO, Indo Asia Copper Limited. I would now request Mr. Manish Kiri to give his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Speaker #2: I would now like to introduce you to the management participating with us on the conference call. We have with us Mr. Manish Kiri, Chairman and Managing Director; Mr. Jayesh Herani, Vice President, Accounts and Finance; Mr. Suresh Gondalia, Company Secretary; and Mr. Ranjit Senchu, CEO, Indo-Asia Copper Limited.

Speaker #2: I would now request Mr. Manish Kiri to give his opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Speaker #3: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the earnings conference call for the first quarter of financial year 2027. I hope you are all keeping safe and well.

Manish Kiri: Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the earnings conference call for the first quarter of financial year 2027. I hope you are all keeping safe and well. Let me begin with an update on our integrated copper and fertilizer project first, which continues to remain at the core of our long-term growth strategy. In the quarter, the project progressed from the design stage into a structured construction phase, supported by timed deployment of capital from the group's strengthened financial position. Orders have been placed for several long lead mechanical, electrical, and utility packages for the project, with finalization of remaining major packages on stage. In parallel, key enabling infrastructure continue to advance in captive jetty desalination facility, dedicated raw material conveying system and project's long-term power infrastructure.

Speaker #3: Let me begin with an update on our integrated corporate fertilizer project first, which continues to remain at the core of our long-term growth strategy.

Speaker #3: In the quarter, the project progressed from the design stage into a structured construction phase. Supported by timely deployment of capital from the group's strengthened financial position, orders have been placed for several long-lead mechanical, electrical, and utility packages for the project, with finalization of remaining major packages as needed on stage.

Speaker #3: In parallel, key enabling infrastructure continued to advance, including a captive jetty, desalination facility, dedicated raw material conveying system, and the project's long-term power infrastructure. The downstream copper facilities are planned to be commissioned in phases, with the copper tube targeted by Q1 FY28, followed by the copper rod plant in FY28, and the copper refinery in Q3 FY29.

Manish Kiri: The downstream of copper facilities are planned to be commissioned in phases, with the copper tube targeted by Q1 FY28, followed by a copper rod plant FY28 and copper refinery in Q3 FY29. We are also progressing on our engagement with the international mining companies and global trading houses to establish long-term sourcing arrangements for the copper concentrate and rock phosphate, the key raw materials for the projects, while continuing to evaluate opportunities across our downstream value-added product portfolio. Overall, the integrated complex remains aligned with our long-term strategic roadmap, and our focus remains on disciplined execution and timely achievement of the next project milestones. With that update on our new platform, let me now turn to the performance of our existing dyes intermediates and basic chemical business. Demand for dyes intermediate industry in the first quarter FY27.

Speaker #3: We are also progressing on our engagement with international mining companies and global trading houses to establish long-term sourcing arrangements for copper concentrate and rock phosphate, the key raw materials for the project, while continuing to evaluate opportunities across our downstream value-added product portfolio.

Speaker #3: Overall, the integrated complex remains aligned with our long-term strategic roadmap, and our focus remains on disciplined execution and the timely achievement of the next project milestones.

Speaker #3: With that update on our new platform, let me now turn to the performance of our existing DICE Intermediates and Basic Chemical business. Operating requirement for DICE Intermediate Industry in the first quarter of FY27.

Speaker #3: I think cell phones, HSA, and certain basic chemicals strengthened during the quarter, supported by tighter global supply. There was a higher and continuing impact of environmental compliance measures on manufacturing facilities in China.

Manish Kiri: I think that vinyl sulfones, H acid, and certain basic chemicals strengthened during the quarter, supported by tighter global supply, higher and continuing impact of environmental compliance measures on manufacturing activities in China. Demand trends, however, remain mixed across product categories, while input cost pressures persisted. Our major raw material prices, which increased during the quarter, resulting in higher input and operating costs. However, improved average selling realization across the portfolio, together with the effect of higher material costs, supported and helped us in profitability. We continue to see improving business. Dyes, intermediate, basic chemicals. The improvement in realization was the key driver of revenue in the quarter. While customer base continued to support business. During the quarter, EBITDA margin 31.9%, compared to 23.5% in FY2026.

Speaker #3: Demand trends, however, remain mixed across product categories, while input cost pressures persisted. Our major raw material prices increased during the quarter, resulting in higher input and operating costs.

Speaker #3: However, improved average selling realization across portfolio gathered effect of higher material supported and helps sustain profitability. We continue to see improving business chemicals. The improvement is realization driver of revenue quarter.

Speaker #3: While the customer base continued to support the business, during the quarter, material margin was 31.9% compared to 23.5% in FY 2026.

Operator 2: I am sorry to interrupt, sir. Could you repeat your last sentence?

Operator: I am sorry to interrupt, sir. Could you repeat your last sentence?

Speaker #4: I'm sorry to interrupt, sir. Could you repeat your last sentence?

Manish Kiri: During the quarter, our EBITDA margin improved to 31.9% in FY2026. The improvement was primarily driven by favorable pricing, with average selling prices rising faster than average raw material prices. We remain focused on maintaining pricing discipline wherever opportunities exist, sustaining operating leverage. During the quarter, on a standalone basis.

Speaker #3: During the quarter, our material margin improved 31.9%. The improvement was primarily driven by favorable pricing potentials, with average selling prices rising faster than average raw material prices.

Speaker #3: We remained focused on maintaining pricing capacity, opportunities exist, and sustaining operational financials for the quarter, on a standalone operations basis.

Operator 2: Sorry to interrupt, sir. We are unable to hear you.

Operator: Sorry to interrupt, sir. We are unable to hear you.

Speaker #4: Sorry to interrupt, sir. We are unable to hear you.

Speaker #3: Not able to hear?

Manish Kiri: Are you able to hear?

Speaker #4: Yes, sir.

Operator 2: Yes, sir.

Operator: Yes, sir.

Manish Kiri: Is it better now?

Speaker #3: Is it better now?

Speaker #5: Disturbance.

Operator 2: Disturbance.

Operator: Disturbance.

Speaker #3: Disturbance, sir. I think there is a disturbance on the line.

Manish Kiri: Disturbance. I think there is a disturbance on the line.

Speaker #5: Disturbance online, yes.

Operator 2: Disturbance on line, yes.

Operator: Disturbance on line, yes.

Speaker #3: Sir, there is continuous disturbance online here. Is it better now? Are you able to hear me?

Manish Kiri: There is continuous disturbance on line here. Is it better now? Are you able to hear me?

Speaker #4: Sir, can you come closer to the mic?

Operator 2: Sir, can you come more closer to the mic?

Operator: Sir, can you come more closer to the mic?

Speaker #3: Now.

Manish Kiri: Now?

Speaker #4: No, sir. Let me just reconnect you.

Operator 2: No, sir. Let me just reconnect you.

Operator: No, sir. Let me just reconnect you.

Speaker #3: I think we lost the connection. I think you have to reconnect. There is some problem in the line. You will hear a lot of noise.

Manish Kiri: I think you have to reconnect. There is some problem in the line. Even I hear a lot of noise when I am

Speaker #4: Ladies and gentlemen, the line for management has been reconnected. Yes, sir, please proceed.

Operator 2: Ladies and gentlemen, the line to the management has been reconnected. Yes, sir. Please proceed.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, the line to the management has been reconnected. Yes, sir. Please proceed.

Speaker #3: Sorry for the disturbance. Now, coming to the financial performance for the quarter. On a standalone basis, revenue from operations for Q1 FY27 stood at ₹295 crore.

Manish Kiri: Sorry for the disturbance. Now coming to the financial performance for the quarter. On a standalone basis, revenue from operations for Q1 FY27 stood at INR 295 crores, registering a growth of 63% year-on-year. The growth was primarily realization led, supported by improved average selling realizations across dyes intermediates, and basic chemicals. Standalone EBITDA stood at INR 17 crores with an EBITDA margin of 5.86%. Further, other incomes earned during the quarter amounted to INR 284 crores, which mainly included earnings from the treasury management. Hence the profit after tax stood at INR 270 crores. On a consolidated basis, revenue from operations from Q1 FY2027 stood at INR 312 crores, registering a growth of 55% year-on-year. The growth was led principally by improved price realizations across the product portfolio rather than by volume.

Speaker #3: Registering a growth of 63% year-on-year. The growth was primarily realization-led, supported by improved average selling realizations across dyes, intermediates, and basic chemicals.

Speaker #3: Standalone EBITDA stood at ₹17 crore, with an EBITDA margin of 5.86%. Further, other income earned during the quarter amounted to ₹284 crore.

Speaker #3: This mainly included earnings from treasury management. Hence, the profit after tax stood at ₹270 crore. On a consolidated basis, revenue from operations for Q1 FY 2027 stood at ₹312 crore.

Speaker #3: Registering a growth of 55% year-on-year. The growth was led principally by improved price realizations across the product portfolio, rather than by volume.

Speaker #3: Consolidated EBITDA, including share of profit of associates and joint venture, stood at ₹37 crores, with an EBITDA margin of 7.84%. Profit after tax stood at ₹270 crores.

Manish Kiri: Consolidated EBITDA, including share of profit of associates and joint venture, stood at INR 37 crores with an EBITDA margin of 7.84%, with a profit after tax stood at INR 270 crores. The significant increase in profit after tax during the quarter was primarily driven by strong contribution from other income. Other income stood at INR 286 crores, primarily comprising interest income on intercorporate loans and realized and unrealized gains on treasury transactions undertaken by the company. This was further supported by improvement in the underlying operating performance, driven by better realizations and better margins. Finance costs reduced sharply following the repayment of borrowings at Clarinox Holding Private Limited, leaving the group substantially free of external debt. The share of profit from associates for Q1 FY2027 stood at INR 21 crores, representing a 30% increase over the preceding quarter.

Speaker #3: The significant increase in profit after tax during the quarter was primarily driven by a strong contribution from other income. Other income stood at ₹286 crore.

Speaker #3: Primarily comprising interest income on intercorporate loans and realized and unrealized gains on treasury transactions undertaken by the company. This was further supported by improvement in the underlying operating performance, driven by better realizations and better margins.

Speaker #3: Finance costs reduced sharply following the repayment of borrowings at Claronex Holding Private Limited, leaving the group substantially free of external debt. The share of profit from associates for quarter one, FY 2027, stood at ₹21 crore.

Speaker #3: Representing a 30% increase over the preceding quarter. The contribution was primarily from Longshan Kiri, in which the company holds a 40% equity interest and management control.

Manish Kiri: The contribution was primarily from Lonsen Kiri, in which the company holds 40% equity interest and management control. Looking ahead, medium to long term outlook for our dyes intermediate, and basic chemical business remains positive, supported by steady textile demand, tighter global availability, and sourcing trends for favoring non-China suppliers. As one of the largest global producers of H-Acid, we believe our existing capacity provides headroom to participate in rising demand without significant additional CapEx expenditure. Sustaining margins, however, will remain dependent on our ability to pass through input cost movements. The fertilizer opportunity is also supported by India's continued dependence on imports, particularly in DAP and key intermediates such as phosphoric acid and ammonia. Against this backdrop, the phased commissioning of our integrated complex is aligned with the widening supply gap of both refined copper and phosphatic fertilizers.

Speaker #3: Looking ahead, medium- to long-term outlook for our DICE Intermediate and basic chemical business remains positive, supported by steady textile demand, tighter global availability, and sourcing trends favoring non-China supplies.

Speaker #3: As one of the largest global producers of etch acid, we believe our existing capacity provides headroom to participate in rising demand without significant additional capex expenditure.

Speaker #3: Sustaining margins, however, will remain dependent on our ability to pass through input cost movements. The fertilizer opportunities are also supported by India's continued dependence on imports, particularly in DAP and key intermediates such as phosphoric acid and ammonia.

Speaker #3: Against this backdrop, the phased commissioning of our integrated complex is aligned with the widening supply gap of both refined copper and phosphoric fertilizers. Our focus remains on sustaining the improvement in our existing chemical business, maintaining a prudent capital structure, and executing the copper and fertilizer projects in a disciplined and timely manner as we build the next phase of growth for Kiri Industries Limited.

Manish Kiri: Our focus remains on sustaining the improvement in our existing chemical business, maintaining a prudent capital structure, and executing the copper and fertilizer projects in a disciplined and timely manner as we build the next phase of growth for Kiri Industries Limited. With that, we can now begin the question and answer session. Thank you.

Speaker #3: With that, we can now begin the question and answer session. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Thank you, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touch-tone telephone.

Operator 2: Thank you, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question comes from the line of Suresh with Barman Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Operator: Thank you, sir. We will now begin the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and one on their touchtone telephone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use handset while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question comes from the line of Suresh with Barman Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and two. Participants are requested to use a handset while asking a question.

Speaker #4: Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Our first question comes from the line of Suresh with Baram's Financial.

Speaker #4: Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Good morning, sir. I'm Amit, sir. I'm Suresh from Yes. Welcome. Yes, yes. Sir, imagine if you are also a partner or shareholder in a firm and you did not receive any capital returns or dividend returns even after 10 years of investment.

Suresh Gondalia: Good morning, sir. Manish here. I am Suresh from-

[Analyst] (Burman Capital): Good morning, sir. Manish here. I am Suresh from-

Manish Kiri: Good morning to you. Yes, welcome.

[Analyst]: You remember, sir?

[Analyst] (Burman Capital): You remember, sir?

Manish Kiri: Of course, I remember. Yes.

[Analyst]: Sir, imagine if you are also a partner of shareholder in a firm and you did not receive any capital returns or dividend returns even after 10 years investment. As a fellow partner, as a shareholder, please think about this scenario and make a decision. Please don't take the wrong way. But ultimately, what a shareholder truly wants and deserves is a return on investment. You try to give me dividends. Please take my suggestion and request. Don't think wrong way. Please try to understand.

[Analyst] (Burman Capital): Sir, imagine if you are also a partner of shareholder in a firm and you did not receive any capital returns or dividend returns even after 10 years investment. As a fellow partner, as a shareholder, please think about this scenario and make a decision. Please don't take the wrong way. But ultimately, what a shareholder truly wants and deserves is a return on investment. You try to give me dividends. Please take my suggestion and request. Don't think wrong way. Please try to understand.

Speaker #3: As a fellow partner, as a shareholder, please think about this scenario and make a decision. Please don't take this the wrong way. But ultimately, what a shareholder truly wants and deserves is a return on investment.

Speaker #3: You try to give me dividends. Take my position and request. Don't think wrong. Please try to understand.

Speaker #2: Yes. Let me address a few points related to your question, which was very well put forward. Number one, as you have seen, we have reported one of the strongest quarters in the history of the company.

Manish Kiri: Yes. See, few points to address your question, and very well put forward. Number one, as you have seen, we have reported one of the strongest quarter in the history of the company in terms of performance. So the performance is what the company is saying, and we promise to you. And the performance has, I think, matched or met with the expectations in terms of our growing requirements of capital. Number two, with that, as you have already seen that the company has embarked on executing one of the largest greenfield projects in the history of the company. And looking at requirements of the capital going forward, looking at the new growth trajectory, which we have already highlighted earlier and executing right now, the board of the company, and we all decided to keep the capital to fuel this growth.

Speaker #2: In terms of performance, the performance is what the company and we promised to you. And the performance has, I think, matched or met the expectations in terms of our growing requirements of capital.

Speaker #2: Now, number two. With that, as you have already seen, the company has embarked on executing one of the largest greenfield projects in the history of the company.

Speaker #2: And looking at the requirements of capital going forward, considering the new growth trajectory we have already highlighted earlier and are executing right now, the board of the company and all of us decided to retain the capital to fuel this growth.

Speaker #2: So whatever company has been waiting on achieving certain performance due to the legal and litigation problem that we faced for a period of 11 years, now having that behind us, the growth path has started.

Manish Kiri: Whatever company has been waiting on achieving certain performance due to the legal and litigation problem that we face for a period of 11 years. Now, having that behind us, the growth part has started, and first quarter has shown that growth, and we will continue to improve the performance of the company. So my humble request to you is to look at how the performance is changing, how we are building new businesses, and how the capital is prudently deployed in the growth of the company. So that's what we would like to focus on.

Speaker #2: The first quarter has shown that growth, and we will continue to improve the performance of the company. So, my humble request to you is to look at how the performance is changing.

Speaker #2: How we are building new businesses, and how the capital is prudently deployed in the growth of the company. So, that's what we would like to focus on.

[Analyst]: Actually, I am asking.

[Analyst] (Burman Capital): Actually, I am asking.

Speaker #3: That actually I am asking.

Speaker #2: So just to answer you, the dividend has not been declared, and there is no decision of the Board to declare any dividend yet.

Manish Kiri: So just to answer you, the dividend is not being declared, and there is no decision of the board to declare any dividend yet. If that changes in the coming quarters, we will be very pleased to inform the shareholders and to you.

Speaker #2: If that changes in the coming quarters, we'll be very pleased to inform the shareholders and you.

[Analyst]: Actually, okay, sir. You invest in growth side in new projects. But in long battle, wait for investors also in the case. You are winning the case. At least you invest a major amount in expansion, but little bit amount you will give the dividend. The shareholders are also happy investors, and the stock price will not give the dividend. So many investors in the money control room. You do not think otherwise. Some rumors is the management is not conservative. That is wrong. But you will give the little bit dividend, almost investors also happy with it. That you think you have take board of directors decision?

[Analyst] (Burman Capital): Actually, okay, sir. You invest in growth side in new projects. But in long battle, wait for investors also in the case. You are winning the case. At least you invest a major amount in expansion, but little bit amount you will give the dividend. The shareholders are also happy investors, and the stock price will not give the dividend. So many investors in the money control room. You do not think otherwise. Some rumors is the management is not conservative. That is wrong. But you will give the little bit dividend, almost investors also happy with it. That you think you have take board of directors decision?

Speaker #3: Actually, okay, sir. Okay, you invest in the growth side in new projects. But it's a long battle, right, for investors also in the case. You are winning the case.

Speaker #3: At least you invest a major amount in expansion. But a little bit amount you will give as the dividend. Shareholders are also happy; investors and stock price will, if you don't give the dividend, so many investors in Moneycontrol rumors—some, you don't think otherwise.

Speaker #3: Some rumors are that management is not conservative. That's about it, but you will give a little bit of dividend. Your investors are also happy.

Speaker #3: That's what you think you have.

Speaker #2: Yes, yes. And we have taken your individual point positively. The company is not making its decisions based on rumors, and cannot make them on the basis of rumors.

Manish Kiri: Yeah. We have taken your point, your individual point positively. Company is not making its decision based on the rumors or cannot make a deal with rumors. There are equal number of shareholders who have also contacted a company and informed company that they are aligned with the company's decision to grow the capital, to grow the return, and to grow the equity return for the shareholders in coming years, utilizing the funds prudently and properly. Correct? So there are equal number of shareholders who are differing the views presented by your individual view, but we take your inputs positively, and we see how we are able to decide in the best interest of the company and its shareholders, the larger pool of shareholders.

Speaker #2: There are an equal number of shareholders who have also contacted the company and informed the company that they are aligned with the company's decision to grow the capital, to grow the return, and to grow the equity return for the shareholders in the coming years.

Speaker #2: Utilizing the funds prudently and properly, correct? So, there are an equal number of shareholders who are differing with the views presented by your individual view. But we take your inputs positively.

Speaker #2: And we see how we are able to decide in the best interest of the company and its shareholders—the larger pool of shareholders.

Speaker #3: We have their good decision, sir. You have to take feedback and you submit to your Board of Directors meeting. You have, they take decision.

[Analyst]: You have taken a good decision, sir. You take feedback and you submit to your board of directors meeting. You have take decision.

[Analyst] (Burman Capital): You have taken a good decision, sir. You take feedback and you submit to your board of directors meeting. You have take decision.

Manish Kiri: Sure.

[Analyst]: Until. Yes, sir. Thank you.

[Analyst] (Burman Capital): Until. Yes, sir. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Speaker #4: Mr. Suresh, I would request you to please come back in the queue for further questions. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you are requested to limit your questions to two per participant.

Operator 2: Mr. Suresh, I would request you to please come back in the queue for further questions. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you are requested to limit your questions to two per participant. The next question comes from the line of Veer Jain with Mahavir Fabric Family Office. Please go ahead.

Operator: Mr. Suresh, I would request you to please come back in the queue for further questions. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, you are requested to limit your questions to two per participant. The next question comes from the line of Veer Jain with Mahavir Family Office. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: The next question comes from the line of Veer Jain with Mahavir Fabric Family Office. Please go ahead.

Veer Jain: Good morning, Mr. Manish. I would just like to know if there is any update regarding the financial closure. Secondly, I also want to know the exact scope of Tata Consulting Engineers in the project, because when I was surfing their website, I couldn't find our project listed in their list of projects. So, I want to know what they are exactly doing as the project managers in our project. Thank you.

Speaker #3: I'd like to know if there is any update regarding the financial closure. And secondly, I also want to know the exact scope of Tata Consulting Engineers in the project, because when I was surfing their website, I couldn't find our project listed in their list of projects.

Speaker #3: So, like, I want to know what they are exactly doing as the project managers in our project. Thank you.

Speaker #2: So, your second question. First, you see it has been deployed as owner’s engineers of the company since the end of last year.

Manish Kiri: Your second question first. Tata Consulting Engineers has been deployed as an owners engineers of the company since the end of last year, and they are involved in project management and control. They are overseeing all the technology transfer in terms of the checking and approving the drawings, the designs, and they are involved deeply in the detail engineering as well. There is a larger scope of Tata Consulting Engineers, and Tata Consulting Engineers has been on board since. From November 2025. That's number one. Number two, financial closure. A complete financial closure has not been achieved yet. We are there on the debt raising. More than 50% commitments have been received. Rest is in process, and we hope that in the next few months, we should be able to reach the complete financial closure. Thank you.

Speaker #2: And they are involved in project management and control. They are overseeing all the technology transfer in terms of checking and approving the drawings and the designs.

Speaker #2: And they are involved deeply in the detail engineering as well. So there is a larger scope of TCE. And TCE has been on board since from November 2000 took from 2020 25, right?

Veer Jain: From November.

Manish Kiri: From November 2025. That's number one. Number two, financial closure. A complete financial closure has not been achieved yet. We are there on the debt raising. More than 50% commitments have been received. Rest is in process, and we hope that in the next few months, we should be able to reach the complete financial closure. Thank you.

Speaker #2: So that's number one. Number two, financial closure—a complete financial closure has not been achieved yet. We are there on the debt raising; more than 50% commitments have been received.

Speaker #2: The rest is in process, and we hope that in the next few months we should be able to reach complete financial closure. Thank you.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Got it. Thank you.

Veer Jain: Thank you. Got it. Thank you.

Manish Kiri: Yes.

Operator 2: The next question comes from the line of Ashit Kothari, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Operator: The next question comes from the line of Ashit Kothari, an Individual Investor. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: The next question comes from the line of Ashit Kothari, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Thank you, sir. Thank you, Maneshbhai.

Ashit Kothari: Thank you, sir. Thank you, Manish bhai.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Ashishbhai.

Manish Kiri: Thank you, Ashit bhai.

Speaker #3: I would just like to wish you a happy Independence Day in advance. I would also like to understand how our copper project is progressing, what our capital requirement will be, and by what time we will be cash surplus from the project.

Ashit Kothari: I would just wish you a happy Independence Day in advance. I would want to understand how our copper project is progressing and what is going to be our capital requirement, and by what time we will be cash surplus from the projects.

Speaker #2: Well, happy Independence Day to you as well. The capital is continuously being deployed in the project, and the total capital requirement as per the current estimate would be around close to ₹12,000 crores for the project itself.

Manish Kiri: Well, happy Independence Day to you as well. The capital is continuously being deployed in the project. The total capital requirement as per the current estimate, would be around close to INR 12,000 crores on the project itself. Additional requirements would be related to the supporting infrastructure that we have been building. That is the outflow in phase one. This outflow is continue to happen over a period of next 2 years, not immediate. Monthly on quarterly basis, as we have disclosed, the CapEx has been increasing and the funds have been deployed in CapEx. That's one area. In 2027, part of the facilities will be operational, mainly related to the downstream products of copper, consumer products of copper. Then in 2028, beginning of 2029, the full facilities would become operational.

Speaker #2: And additional requirements would be related to the infrastructure—the supporting infrastructure that we have been building. So that is the outflow in Phase One.

Speaker #2: This outflow will continue to happen over the next two years, not immediately. So, on a monthly or quarterly basis—as we have disclosed—the CapEx has been increasing and the funds are being deployed in CapEx.

Speaker #2: So that's one area. In 2027, part of the facilities will be operational, mainly related to the downstream products of copper—consumer products of copper. And then in 2028, beginning of 2029, the full facilities would become operational.

Ranjit Singh Chugh: I am Ranjit Singh Chugh, CEO of Indo Asia Copper Limited. At the present, we are focusing on the downstream product so that the capital which has been employed from our own kitty starts giving some returns. In that regard, a 35 KT plant of tube plant will be operational in June 2027. In August, September 2027, 2.25 lakh tons of the CCR, continuous rod plant of 8MM will be operational. These will be operated from imported cathodes, primarily coming from Japan, because the cathodes which come from Japan do not come on premium. They are pure LME grade cathodes cost-wise. If you look into any such kind of plant startup, it does take some time to stabilize. By January 2028, these 2 plants will be stable, fully operational, stable, and running in a nice state.

Speaker #5: I am Ranjit Singh Choo, CEO of Indonesia Copper and Fertilizer Together. At present, we are focusing on the downstream products so that the capital which has been employed from our own city starts giving some returns.

Speaker #5: So in that regard, a 35 KT plant of tube plant will be operational in June 27. And in August, September 27, two 2.25 lakh tons of CCR continuous rock plant of 8 will be operational.

Speaker #5: These will be operated from imported cathodes, primarily coming from Japan, because the cathodes which come from Japan do not come at a premium. They are pure LME-grade cathodes.

Speaker #5: Costing wise. Then and if you look into any such kind of plant startup, it does take some time to stabilize. So by January 28, the whole complete these two plants will be stable.

Speaker #5: Fully operational, stable, and running in nice condition. So by that time, we'll make our part refinery operational, which will convert anodes to cathode—LME-grade cathode.

Ranjit Singh Chugh: By that time, we'll make our part refinery operational, which will convert anodes to cathode, LME grade cathode. When we say part refinery, it means it will be 1.75 lakh tons. To complement that, we'll be utilizing scrap from various sources, whether ingot, pinch, blister, et cetera. Use our scrap melting furnace, which also will be commissioned by December, January 2026, 2027, 2028. By 2028 January, we'll have scrap plant started for operation, which will produce anodes. That anode will get converted to LME grade cathode in refinery. This first portion of the downstream will be fully operational. Whatever will be the shortfall of cathode requirement, that we'll anyway procure from the market. At the same time, we envisage to start another value-added product in the same period, exactly the same period or let's say, busbar.

Speaker #5: When we say part refinery, it means it will be 1.75 lakh tons. To complement that, we will be utilizing scrap from various sources, whether ingot, birch, blister, etc.

Speaker #5: Use our melting scrap melting furnace, which also will be commissioned by December, January 26, 27, 28. So by 28 January, you will have scrap plant started for operation and which will produce anodes.

Speaker #5: And that anode will get converted to LME-grade cathode in the refinery. So, this much portion of the downstream will be fully operational. Whatever will be the shortfall of cathode requirement, that will anyway be procured from the market.

Speaker #5: At the same time, we envisage to start other value-added products in the same period, exactly the same period. Let's say, a small quantity, but they will add value to our value addition will be there.

Ranjit Singh Chugh: A small quantity, but they'll add value addition will be there, plus phosphor copper balls. These 2 will be operational at the same time. Then the next phase of journey will start. In between, we will be in a position to start copper foil business of minimum 5,000 KT as first round of trial product, which is highly value-added product. Meaning that today, if you look in India, the copper foil is imported with LME grade copper plus 5,000 USD additional premium. Of course, there will be OpEx to it, but irrespective of that OpEx, this is a very valuable product. We will be starting that with trial production for 5,000 KT, where the complete system will be built for 10 KT, which we call phase one.

Speaker #5: Plus POS balls, POS copper balls. So these two will be operational at the same time. Then the next phase of the journey will start. In between, we will be in a position to start the copper foil business of minimum 5,000 kg as the first round of trial product, which is a highly value-added product. Meaning that today, if you look in India, copper foil is imported with LME grade copper plus $5,000 additional premium.

Speaker #5: Of course, there will be, I mean, OPEX to it, but irrespective of that OPEX, this is a very valuable product. We will be starting that with trial orders.

Speaker #5: I mean, trial production for 5,000 KT, where the complete system will be built for 10 KT, which we call phase one. Our aim is to do phase one, two, and three to make it 40 KT.

Ranjit Singh Chugh: Our aim is to be phase 1, 2, and 3, to make it 40 KT, for which we have already gone to central government to be part of EC

Speaker #5: For which we have already gone to the central government to be part of EPC.

Manish Kiri: ECMS.

Speaker #3: EPCMS.

Speaker #2: ECMS. ECMS scheme. So this also will be operational in, I mean, I'm looking at 18 to 20 months from now. So if you look at 20 months, March '28.

Ranjit Singh Chugh: ECMS scheme. This also will be operational in, I am looking at 18 to 20 months from now. If you look at 20 months, March 2028. These are value-added products. Balance of the plant, which is primarily just smelter, sulfur, the sulfuric acid plant, and fertilizers will be operational in Q1 of 2029. These are the typical timelines as of now, we have put ourselves into. Off setter the targets based upon this, which in any such parlance is, I think, six months faster. People take a minimum 36 to 40 months. Whichever way we count, we will be around five to six months that way.

Speaker #2: These are value-added products. Balance of the plant, which is primarily the smelter surface, the sulfuric acid plant, and fertilizers, will be operational in the first quarter of '29.

Speaker #2: So these are the typical timelines as of now. We have put ourselves into the sector. The targets based on this, which in any such parlance, I think, are for six months—faster.

Speaker #2: People take a minimum of 36 to 40 months. If we, whichever way we count, it will be around five to six months earlier.

Speaker #4: Sir, have you.

Ashit Kothari: Sir, have you tied up with raw material requirement for next couple of years? Is it a long-term contract, fixed price?

Speaker #3: Have we tied up our raw material requirements for the next couple of years? Is it at a fixed price?

Ranjit Singh Chugh: Yes. Normally, what happens in copper concentrate business, what we call as long-term contracts are typically done for two to three years on an average. Last year, for copper, there are two big conferences happen across the world. One is, London LME, which happens typically in October, and another is CESCO in Chile. We have participated in both of them, and we have been discussing and doing lot of rounds with the miners and the trader stakeholders. Today, as we speak, we have got a firm window of approximately 1 million ton of copper concentrate. It is only window we get, we get what we call MOUs, basically. The MOUs get firm three to four months prior to our requirement. In our case, we firm up in terms of costing, contract costing, bonded contracts in October 2028.

Speaker #2: Normally, what happens in the copper concentrate business is that what we call long-term contracts are typically done for two to three years on average.

Speaker #2: Last year, for copper, there were two big conferences that happened across the world. One is the London LME week, which typically happens in October, and the other is CESCO, in Chile.

Speaker #2: So, we have participated in both of them, and we have been discussing and doing a lot of rounds with the miners and the trader stakeholders.

Speaker #2: So today, as we speak, we have got a firm window of approximately 1 million tons of copper concentrate. I mean, it's only a window we get.

Speaker #2: We get what we call MOUs, basically. And the MOUs get firmed up three to four months prior to our requirement. In our case, we'll firm up, in terms of costing—the contract costing, bonded contracts—on October 28.

Speaker #2: That is the time in that LME year this contract starts. Actually, converted into, let's say, contract—MOUs are turned into contracts. So, as we speak today, we are having MOUs of 1 million tons of copper concentrate.

Ranjit Singh Chugh: That is the time in that LME year these contracts are actually converted into, let's say, contract. MOUs are turned into contract. As we speak today, we are having MOUs of 1 million ton of copper concentrate, and if we go for our 100% production, we will be requiring around 1.5 million or 15 lakh. Yes, this is a journey of only one year. Last year we went. This year again, when we go to October, I think so the visibility will go up from today 1 million to 1.2 to 1.4 million. We are pretty confident because last year we did not have much to showcase. This year, I think so at site, now today 1,000 people are working, civil and mechanical, and things have come over ground for tube and rod plant.

Speaker #2: And if we go for over 100% production, we'll be requiring around 1.5 million, or 15 lakh. So yes, this is the journey of only one year.

Speaker #2: Last year we went. This year again when we go to October, I think so the visibility will go up from one to at least one from today, 1 million to 1.2 to 1.4 million.

Speaker #2: So we are pretty confident because last year we did not have much to showcase. This year, I think so. As of now, today, 1,000 people are working—civil and mechanical—and things have come above ground.

Speaker #2: For tube and rod plant. So, obviously, as things have changed physically at site, so will be the thought process of the people who supply copper concentrate or raw material to us.

Ranjit Singh Chugh: Obviously, as things have changed physically at site, so will be the thought process of the people who supply the copper concentrate or raw material to us. This is what is the situation.

Speaker #2: So, this is what it is.

Speaker #3: Thank you.

Ashit Kothari: Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Manish Kiri: Thank you.

Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mehul Panjwani, with 40 Cents. Please go ahead.

Operator 2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mehul Panjwani with Forty Cents. Please go ahead.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Mehul Panjwani with Forty Cents. Please go ahead.

Speaker #5: Hello. Thanks very much for the opportunity. Am I audible?

Mehul Panjwani: Hello. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Am I audible?

Speaker #3: Yeah. Yes, please.

Manish Kiri: Yes, please.

Speaker #5: Yes, sir. When will we record the copper business? In which quarter of FY27?

Mehul Panjwani: Sir, when will we record the first revenues from the copper business? In which quarter of FY27?

Speaker #3: I think Chuksa just mentioned it would be somewhere around first quarter, end of first quarter—May, June 2027. I mean, so that would be FY 2027–28 first quarter.

Manish Kiri: I think Chugh sir just mentioned it would be somewhere around end of Q1, May, June 2027. That would be FY2027-2028, Q1.

Speaker #2: Q2 will get done.

Ranjit Singh Chugh: Yes, Q2 you will get.

Speaker #3: So, Q2 you will get commercial. So, Q1 and Q2, you are looking at for the next financial year.

Ranjit Singh Chugh: Q2 you will get commercial.

Ranjit Singh Chugh: Yes.

Manish Kiri: Q1, Q2, you are looking for next financial year.

Speaker #5: Okay. And sir, when will be the complete overall total top line which we are expecting from the copper, when will that be targeted? And by what timeline we are expecting to achieve it?

Mehul Panjwani: Okay. When will the complete overall total top line which we are expecting from the copper, when will that be targeted and by what timeline we are expecting to achieve it?

Speaker #3: Financial year 2029-30.

Manish Kiri: FY2029-30.

Speaker #5: 29-30. That is Q4.

Mehul Panjwani: 29-30. That is Q4.

Speaker #3: Yes, that financial year is the one which will capture the majority of the operational revenues.

Manish Kiri: Yeah, that financial year is the one which will capture majority of the operational revenues.

Speaker #5: Right. And sir, how are we placed to service the debt which we have taken for this project?

Mehul Panjwani: Right. And sir, how are we placed to service the debt which we have taken for this project?

Speaker #3: So just to address that, Chuksa, 2027-28 is a financial year where the cash flow will start coming and building. So from 2027-28, 2028-29, and 2029-30—all three years—the company will start moderately ramping up the cash flow from the start.

Manish Kiri: So, just addressed by Chugh sir, FY2027-28 is a financial year where the cash flow will start coming and building. So from FY2027-28, FY2028-29, and FY2029-30, all three years, company will start moderately ramping up the cash flow from the stepwise operations that will start. So there will be parallel cash flow coming as well.

Speaker #3: So there will be parallel cash flows coming in as well.

Speaker #5: Right, sir. And sir, where is the site? Yeah, yeah. Thank you, sir. Thanks. Sir, where is the site for the copper? Are we at multiple locations, or is it one site?

Mehul Panjwani: Right, sir. And sir, where is the site? Yeah. Thank you, sir. Sir, where is the site for the copper? Are we having multiple locations or it is one site?

Speaker #3: One location near Peephole Fort.

Manish Kiri: One location near Pipavav Port.

Speaker #5: Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, sir, and wish you the very best.

Mehul Panjwani: Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you so much, sir, and wish you the very best.

Speaker #3: Thank you.

Manish Kiri: Thank you.

Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Manoj Kumar with Adinath Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Operator 2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Manoj Kumar with Adinath Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Manoj Kumar with Adinath Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Speaker #5: Good morning, Manish bhai.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Good morning, Manish bhai.

Manoj Kumar: Good morning, Manish bhai.

Speaker #3: Manoj ji, always welcome. Good morning to you.

Manish Kiri: Manoj ji, always welcome. Good morning to you.

Speaker #5: Yeah, yeah. My question was regarding our current business of Dyson Chemicals. We have got almost 13 or 14 major products in our product line, and with huge capacities.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Yeah. My question was regarding our current business of dyes and chemicals. We have got almost 13, 14 major products in our product line and with huge capacities. Most of the capacity is remaining unutilized, I think. Around 40% we are using, 60% is still unutilized.

Manoj Kumar: Yeah. My question was regarding our current business of dyes and chemicals. We have got almost 13, 14 major products in our product line and with huge capacities. Most of the capacity is remaining unutilized, I think. Around 40% we are using, 60% is still unutilized. Right?

Speaker #5: And most of the capacity is remaining unutilized, I think. Around 40% we are using; 60% is still unutilized. Right, sir?

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Right?

Speaker #3: So, in the last quarter, we utilized average capacity of about 60%.

Manish Kiri: The last quarter we utilized average capacity about 60%.

Speaker #5: 60%.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: 60%.

Manoj Kumar: 60%.

Speaker #3: And yeah, we still have 40% unutilized in various plants, combined together.

Manish Kiri: Yeah, we still have 40% unutilized in various plants combined together.

Speaker #5: Yeah, but what could be our ideal situation with 100% capacity utilization? How much could the turnover be, and how much profit could we generate?

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Yeah. What can be our ideal situation with 100% capacity utilization? How much can be the turnover, and how much can be the profit we can generate? Because around 31% margin is there in, material margin is there.

Manoj Kumar: Yeah. What can be our ideal situation with 100% capacity utilization? How much can be the turnover, and how much can be the profit we can generate? Because around 31% margin is there in, material margin is there.

Speaker #5: Because around 31% margin is there in material margin.

Speaker #3: Right, right. So now the market has improved. We have seen that prices have also increased, and we have slowly started ramping up the capacities, provided the demand supports that.

Manish Kiri: Right. Now the market has improved. We have seen the prices have also increased. We started slowly ramping up the capacities provided demand support that, correct? We do not want to compromise the margins on account of just building volume. So it's cautious approach where we are ramping up, but ramping up profitability. If you look at the consolidated EBITDA of the quarter, probably, with now legal costs behind as well as the improvements in the industry situation, we got INR 37 crore of including the JV's operations. So that's a good number if you ask me, and that's where we would continue to build upon that. So if the market supports, then from 60% to 70%, 75% at least we want to achieve during this year as an average capacity utilization, Mananji.

Speaker #3: And we do not want to compromise the margins on account of just building volume. So, it's a cautious approach where we are ramping up.

Speaker #3: But ramping up profitability. If you profitably, if you look at the consolidated a bit of the quarter, probably with now legal cost behind, as well as the as well as the improvements in the industry situation, we got 37 crore of including the JVs operations.

Speaker #3: So that's a good number, if you ask me. And that is where we would continue to build upon that. So if the market supports it, then from 60% to 70–75% at least, we want to achieve during this year.

Speaker #3: As an average, capacity utilization, Manoj ji.

Speaker #5: And these two products which you were referring to, HSC and vinyl sulfone, we have got good capacity—around 7,200 metric tons for HSC and around 12,000, 13,000, 15,000, I think.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: These two products which you were referring to, H-Acid and vinyl sulfone.

Manoj Kumar: These two products which you were referring to, H-Acid and vinyl sulfone. We have got good capacity, around 7,200 metric ton for the H-Acid and around 12,000, 13,000, 15,000, I think.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: We have got good capacity, around 7,200 metric ton for the H-Acid and around 12,000, 13,000, 15,000, I think.

Speaker #3: Yes. Yes, yes, yes.

Manish Kiri: Yes.

Speaker #5: For that.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: For that.

Manoj Kumar: For that.

Manish Kiri: Yes.

Speaker #5: At the prevailing prices, I was just calculating that the annual turnover from these two products alone will be almost ₹800 to ₹1,000 crore.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: At the prevailing prices, I was just calculating, the annual turnover from these two products only will be around INR 800 to 1,000 crore.

Manoj Kumar: At the prevailing prices, I was just calculating, the annual turnover from these two products only will be around INR 800 to 1,000 crore.

Speaker #3: Yes, yes, true, true, true, true. So, in this situation...

Manish Kiri: Yes, true. If this-

Manoj Kumar Bhura: What about other products? Can we achieve a turnover of around INR 2,000 crore from our dyes business?

Speaker #5: And what about other products? Can we achieve a turnover of around ₹2,000 crore from our dye business?

Manoj Kumar: What about other products? Can we achieve a turnover of around INR 2,000 crore from our dyes business?

Speaker #3: If we are able to achieve close to 75 to 80 percent capacity utilization, and if we are able to sustain the prices which are there currently—because today, HSC's price is in the range of ₹800 to ₹900, which used to be ₹350 to ₹400 earlier.

Manish Kiri: If we are able to achieve close to 75% to 80% capacity utilization, and if we are able to sustain the prices which are there currently, because today H-Acid prices is in the range of INR 800 to INR 900, which used to be INR 400, INR 350 earlier, correct? You are looking at the double the pricing than the average pricing earlier. Similar situation with vinyl sulfone also. The prices are almost 70%, 80% high.

Speaker #3: Correct? So you are looking at double the pricing compared to the average prices earlier. Similar situation with vinyl sulphone also. The prices are almost 70–80 percent higher.

Manish Kiri: You are looking at the double the pricing than the average pricing earlier.

Manish Kiri: Similar situation with vinyl sulfone also. The prices are almost 70%, 80% high.

Speaker #3: No doubt the raw materials have also increased substantially. But if this price continues for the next one year, then yes, we can have much higher revenue, and the numbers could be even double than the average.

Manish Kiri: No doubt, the raw materials have also increased substantially. But if these prices continue for the next one year, then yes, we can have much higher revenue, and the numbers could be even double than the average. That means if you are looking at INR 1,000, INR 1,200 crore of revenue, it will just on the price increase and the capacity utilization improvement, it could touch close to INR 2,000 crore, yes.

Speaker #3: That means, if you are looking at ₹1,000–1,200 crore of revenue, just on the price increase and the capacity utilization improvement, it could touch close to ₹2,000 crore, yes.

Speaker #5: But why is our profitability so low? Because our own subsidiary, Lawn & Kerry, is having fantastic results, fantastic EBITDA margin, and fantastic PAT margin also.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: But why our profitability is so low? Because our own subsidiary, Lonsen Kiri

Manoj Kumar: But why our profitability is so low? Because our own subsidiary, Lonsen Kiri

Manish Kiri: Right

Manoj Kumar Bhura: is having a fantastic result, fantastic EBITDA margin, and fantastic PAT margin also.

Manoj Kumar: is having a fantastic result, fantastic EBITDA margin, and fantastic PAT margin also.

Speaker #5: On a turnover of around ₹368 crore, they have earned about ₹71 crore EBITDA and ₹51 crore PAT. What prevents us from repeating those figures in Kiri?

Manish Kiri: Yeah.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: On a turnover around INR 368 crore, they have earned around INR 71 crore EBITDA and INR 51 crore PAT.

Manoj Kumar: On a turnover around INR 368 crore, they have earned around INR 71 crore EBITDA and INR 51 crore PAT.

Manish Kiri: Right.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: What prevents us from repeating those figures in Kiri?

Manoj Kumar: What prevents us from repeating those figures in Kiri?

Speaker #3: So, there are different products in JV and different products in Kerry, right? Kerry is selling raw materials to JV, and JV captures the finished product margin.

Manish Kiri: So there are different products in JV and different products in Kiri, right? Kiri is selling raw materials to JV, and JV captures the finished product's margin. So when you look at and compare the supplies of raw materials from Kiri to JV, the markup and the value-added profits and the margins are captured at the JV level on the finished product. So when you look at the totality of the picture, then you capture the entire value chain margin.

Speaker #3: So, when you look at and compare the supplies of raw materials from Kerry to JV, the markup, value-added profits, and the margins are captured at the JV level on the finished products.

Speaker #3: So, when you look at the totality of the picture, you capture the entire value chain margin. To see the full value chain margin, you have to look at the combined operations of Kiri and the JV.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Okay.

Manoj Kumar: Okay.

Manish Kiri: So to see the entire value chain margin, you have to look at combined operations of Kiri and JV. That is one. Number two, there are certain chemistries, certain product ranges which are prevalent in, and which are set up in JV are not in Kiri. So even though dyes are produced at both the ends, the products are different as well. More than 50% of the products are different. For example, JV produces indigo while Kiri doesn't do it, right? Similarly, JV has certain advanced chemistry which standalone Kiri doesn't do it, right? So there are different products and value added on the finished product. These are the two differentiating factors. So when you look at the total picture, that gives you the correct picture.

Speaker #3: That's one. Number two, there are certain chemistries, certain product ranges which are prevalent in and which are set up in the JV but are not in Kiri.

Speaker #3: So, even though dyes are produced at both ends, the products are different as well. More than 50% of the products are different.

Speaker #3: For example, JV produces indigo, while Kerry doesn't do it. Right? Similarly, JV has certain advanced chemistry which stand alone. Kerry doesn't do it. Right?

Speaker #3: So there are different products and value added on the finished product. These are the two differentiating factors. So when you look at the total picture, that gives you the correct picture.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: We are having 40% stake in Lonsen Kiri, whereas in Kiri we have all the money with us. Can't you replicate those things in Kiri? Add those products in Kiri. Is there exclusivity, some clause or is there?

Manoj Kumar: We are having 40% stake in Lonsen Kiri, whereas in Kiri we have all the money with us. Can't you replicate those things in Kiri? Add those products in Kiri. Is there exclusivity, some clause or is there?

Speaker #5: We are having a 40% stake in Lonza & Kerry, whereas in Kerry, we have all the money with us. Can't you replicate those things in Kerry?

Speaker #5: Add those products, those products in Kiri. Is there exclusivity, some clause, or is there?

Speaker #3: I think, based on the agreements between Kerry and Lawn & Kerry also, which are existing—and even though Lawn & Kerry continues to have JV operations—it is operated, run, and managed by Kerry, even today itself.

Manish Kiri: I think based on the agreements between Kiri and Lonsen Kiri also, which are existing, and even though Lonsen Kiri continues to have JV operations, it is operated, run, management by Kiri even today itself. Correct? So there is no point in creating inter-company competition by replicating what they do to Kiri and destroy the margins in the market. So strategically, even though Kiri may consolidate 40% of Lonsen Kiri, the higher we stand on Lonsen Kiri, the better beneficiary Kiri is. And 60%, 70% of JV's raw materials anyway go from Kiri.

Speaker #3: Correct? So there is no point in creating inter-company competition by replicating what they do to Kerry and destroying the margins in the market. So strategically, even though Kerry may consolidate 40% of Lonsen & Kerry, the higher we stand than Lonsen & Kerry, the better beneficiary Kerry becomes.

Speaker #3: And 60 to 70 percent of JV's raw materials anyway come from Kiri. So there are very close linkages between the two companies in terms of raw material supplies at a very high volume.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Okay.

Manoj Kumar: Okay.

Manish Kiri: So there are very close linkages between two companies in terms of raw material supplies at a very high volume, and also value added 40%. That has been structured since the beginning, and there is no disturbance in that. If you look at the overall supply chain globally, and JV continues still to be, even after exit from DyStar, the largest single supplier to DyStar as well, even though we have exited from DyStar. So from operational point of view, from strategic supply chain point of view, I think it is well established, and we don't see any reason to deviate from whatever is working.

Speaker #3: And also value added 40%. And that has been structured since the beginning. And there is no disturbance in that. And if you look at the overall supply chain globally, and JV continues still to be even after exit from Dye Star, the largest single supplier to Dye Star as well, even though we have exited from Dye Star.

Speaker #3: So from an operational point of view, from a strategic supply chain point of view, I think it is well established, and we don't see any reason to deviate from whatever is working.

Speaker #5: Right, sir. Right. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Right, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.

Manoj Kumar: Right, sir. Thank you, sir. Thank you very much.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Thank you, Manoj.

Manish Kiri: Thank you, Manoj Kumar.

Speaker #2: Thank you. The next question comes from Anirudh Nair, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Operator 2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Anup Iyer, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Anup Iyer, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Good morning, Mr. Manoj. Congratulations on the results.

Anup Iyer: Good morning, Mr. Manish. Congratulations on the result.

Speaker #3: Morning.

Manish Kiri: Morning. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Thank you. Thanks for the question. The question I had was—maybe this is a repeat, or I missed this in Chuk Sar's commentary. Given that the tube and rod plants are commissioning a quarter apart, does the previously guided ₹20,000 to ₹25,000 crore FY28 revenue still hold?

Anup Iyer: Sir, the question I had was, maybe this is a repeat, or I missed this on Chuxal's commentary. Given the tube and rod plants are commissioning a quarter apart, does the previously guided INR 20,000 to 25,000 crore FY28 revenue still hold? The second part to that question was, what is the basis of making the projection? Do we already have an established sales channel or customer base, et cetera?

Speaker #4: And the second part to that question was: What is the basis of making the projection? Do we already have an established sales channel, a customer base, etc.?

Speaker #3: Number one, that number is dynamically moving. So that 20, 25,000 of revenue in 2007–2028 doesn't hold. Let me first clarify that. And a lot of installation and delivery of the machinery depends on the vendors’ timelines.

Manish Kiri: Well, that number is dynamically moving number. That 20, 25 thousand of revenue in 2027, 2028 doesn't hold. Let me first clarify that. A lot of installation and delivery of the machinery depends on the vendor's timelines. That also keeps moving. That is precisely the reason that every quarter we keep updated on the progress, and that is how we will also keep informing you as and when the revenue projections becomes clearer and clearer. That's one. On the other side, the clientele base which you refer to, today as a country, we are highly import dependent. Whatever we sell would be all import replacement.

Speaker #3: And that also keeps moving. That is precisely the reason that every quarter we keep you updated on the progress. That is how we will also continue informing you as and when the revenue projections become clearer and clearer.

Speaker #3: So that's one. On the other side, the clientele base which you refer to—today, as a country, we are highly import dependent. So whatever we sell would be all import replacement.

Speaker #3: And to the extent, if we look at the market survey and the numbers that are prevailing, for last year, consumption of copper in India was 1.8 million tons. Almost two-thirds of that requirement was met by imports.

Manish Kiri: To the extent of, if we look at the market survey and the numbers that are prevailing for the last year, consumption of copper in India at 1.8 million tons, almost two-third of that requirement is met by imports. Correct? When we are talking about selling the entire output of the facility only to substitute import, sales is not a challenge. But of course, we need to have the quality approved. We need to go through the approval process from the customers. But selling is not a challenge. Selling is basically having the established current channels to be filled up with domestic production replacing the import which is happening today. That is not a challenge. As long as we are able to produce and as long as we are able to secure the raw materials, we do not see sales as a constraint to generate revenue.

Speaker #3: So, when we are talking about selling the entire output of the facility only to substitute imports, sales is not a challenge. Now, of course, we need to have the quality approved.

Speaker #3: We need to go through the approval process with the customers. But selling is not a challenge. Selling is basically about having the established current channels filled with domestic production, replacing the imports that are happening today.

Speaker #3: So, that's not a challenge as long as we are able to produce, and as long as we are able to secure the raw materials.

Speaker #3: We don't see sales as being constrained to generate revenue.

Speaker #4: Understood, sir. Thank you so much. So, just one softer question: I just want to understand, what is the role of the marine jetty?

Anup Iyer: Understood, sir. Thank you so much. Just one softer question is, I just want to understand what is the role of the marine jetty, because if I am not mistaken, our plant is slightly inland, still close to the port. I just want to understand what is the role of the marine jetty.

Speaker #4: Because if I'm not mistaken, our plant is slightly inland, still close to the coast. So I just want to understand, what is the role of the marine jetty?

Manish Kiri: Near the port, a separate jetty, dedicated jetty, we realize is very important because of our bulk imports and continuous imports of products like copper concentrate, rock phosphate, ammonia. Bulk handling at the port is currently a challenge, because it is mainly a containerized-

Speaker #3: So near the port, a separate dedicated jetty—we realize—is very important because of our bulk imports and continuous imports of products like copper.

Speaker #3: Concentrated rock phosphate, ammonia, and bulk handling at the port is currently a challenge because it's mainly a container port. Container port and containerized cargo are being handled there.

Anup Iyer: It is a container port.

Manish Kiri: container port, and containerized cargo is being handled there. We are almost near the port, not too far away. But separate jetty provides us in terms of operational cost optimization, plus the dedicated unloading of the bulk vessels that we will be getting. From logistics point of view, from operational point of view, as well as long-term operational cost point of view, it was necessary to have this kind of infrastructure to support the project.

Speaker #3: So, we are almost near the port, not too far away. But a separate jetty provides us with operational cost optimization, and plus the dedicated unloading of the bulk vessels that we will be getting.

Speaker #3: So from a logistics point of view, from an operational point of view, as well as from a long-term operational cost point of view, it was necessary to have this kind of infrastructure to support the project.

Speaker #4: Understood, sir. That gives a lot of clarity. Thank you so much for answering my questions.

Anup Iyer: Understood, sir. That gives a lot of clarity. Thank you so much, sir. Those are my questions.

Speaker #3: Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Kaushal Keria with Woolford Investment. Please go ahead.

Manish Kiri: Thank you.

Operator 2: The next question comes from the line of Kaushal Kedia with Wolfwood Investment. Please go ahead.

Operator: The next question comes from the line of Kaushal Kedia with Wallfort Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Sure, thank you for taking my question. I just wanted to know, what is the update on the MCB copper coal project? Where have we reached?

Kaushal Kedia: Sir, thank you for my question. Sir, just wanted to know what is the update on the MCB Copper-Gold Project, where we wish to sort of acquire the mines.

Speaker #4: So, sort of acquired the mines?

Speaker #3: Right. So we are already now a part of the MCB Copper Gold Project, and the development of that mine has not started yet. The design has already been completed.

Manish Kiri: Right. We are already now a part of MCB Copper-Gold Project, and the development of that mine has not started yet. The design has already been completed. Currently, if you look at various announcements in the public domain, there has been a shareholders' disagreements on certain areas, which are currently being addressed. Good part is that there are many financing offers received by the project, and we got regular updates from the project as well, that the development of the project and the participations in the development for financing the project is also quite positive. We hope that before the end of the year, we get a good news of project completing their financial closure and start the development of the project. But it is quite positive. They are on it. We are not actively involved in terms of the management or operations there.

Speaker #3: Currently, if you look at various announcements in the public domain, there has been a shareholder disagreement on certain areas which are currently being addressed.

Speaker #3: And a good part is that there are many financing offers received by the project. And we got regular updates from the project as well, that the development of the project and the participation in the development for financing the project is also quite positive.

Speaker #3: So we hope that before the end of the year, we get good news of the project completing its financial closure and start the development of the project.

Speaker #3: But it's quite positive, and they are on it. We are not actively involved in terms of the management or operations there. We are more of a passive player in terms of providing our inputs there.

Manish Kiri: We are more of a passive player in terms of providing our inputs there. But we continue to monitor and watch the developments.

Speaker #3: But we continue to monitor and watch the developments.

Speaker #4: So, right now, should we assume that we will get access to the offtake out there? Is it a higher probability?

Kaushal Kedia: So right now, what should we assume that will we get access to the offtake out there? Is it a high probability or-

Speaker #3: No, no. We have already structured 70% of the offtake to come to us. That was the key.

Manish Kiri: No, no. We have already structured 70% of the offtake to come to us. That was the key.

Speaker #4: No, but okay. So there's no chance of the thing not coming to us, because I think Selfies is still sort of litigating, so.

Kaushal Kedia: No, but, okay. So there is no chance of the thing not coming to us? Because I think Celsius is still sort of litigating.

Speaker #3: Yes, so there are shareholders' disputes and litigations ongoing right now. And Celsius is objecting to Kiri's offtake. But I think, based on the overall assessment of the situation and looking at Celsius' continuous attacks on the other shareholders, it seems that the matter has now been put to the court.

Manish Kiri: Yes. There are shareholders' disputes and litigations ongoing right now. Celsius is objecting Kiri's offtake. But I think based on the overall assessment of the situation and looking at Celsius' continuous attack on the other shareholders there, it seems that the matter has been now put to the court, and we should have some clarity on that as well. As far as the majority shareholders are concerned and our earlier discussions are concerned, which still hold, and we are hopeful that Celsius, who is trying to derail the development of the project, doesn't put kind of barriers to stop the development. So let's hope so.

Speaker #3: And we should have some clarity on that as well. But as far as the as far as the majority shareholders are concerned and our earlier discussions are concerned, which still hold, and we are hopeful that Celsius who is trying to derail the development of the project, doesn't put doesn't put kind of barriers to stop the development.

Speaker #3: So let's hope so.

Speaker #4: Is it still it is still the matter is still sort of in process. We don't have access to either 40 or 60 percent. What is the worst-case scenario in this?

Kaushal Kedia: Is it still the matter is still sort of in process. We do not have access to either 40% or 60%. What is the worst-case scenario in this? Because this is very important. This is in place when we have access to proper concentrate, which is everyone's doubt. So what is like

Speaker #4: Because this is very important. This is in place and we have access to copper concentrate, which is everyone's doubt. So, what is it like? If you're comfortable to answer that, sir, right at this juncture.

Manish Kiri: Right

Kaushal Kedia: if you are comfortable to answer that, sir, right now at this juncture.

Speaker #3: So, as you know, the matter is sub judice, right?

Manish Kiri: So, as you know, the matter is sub judice, right?

Speaker #4: Sure.

Speaker #3: And because the matter is sub judice and Celsius is in the court, we would not comment on something that the court is looking into, because it would be rather speculative from our side, correct?

Kaushal Kedia: Correct.

Manish Kiri: Because the matter is sub judice and Celsius is in the court, we would not comment something that the court is looking into, because it would be rather speculation from our side. Correct?

Kaushal Kedia: Okay.

Speaker #3: And as you are aware, once the court decides on the matters involved, then we will have more clarity, correct? I would not speculate before the judiciary makes a decision on the shareholder situation first.

Manish Kiri: As you are aware, once the court decides on the matters involved, then we will have more clarity. Correct? I would not speculate something before the judiciary makes the decision on the shareholder situation first. Correct? Let that be sorted out, and Kiri continues to remain a lender. The position of Kiri is still a lender today. Correct?

Speaker #3: Correct? And let that be sorted out. And Kiri continues to remain a lender. The position of Kiri is still as a lender today. Correct?

Speaker #4: Okay.

Kaushal Kedia: Okay.

Speaker #3: And we continue to remain the lender right till things are sorted out, so that if our money needs to be returned, it is to be returned.

Manish Kiri: We continue to remain lender, right, till things are sorted out, so that we can, if our money needs to be returned, it is to be returned if the benefit is not secure. Right? That is the way we are looking at it. We continue to provide our commitment to the project. We continue to support the project, and we continue to make sure that whatever needs to be done on ground to support the project, to develop the mine, we are fully supporting. While Celsius has not been supporting as a shareholder, what they should be doing. We are fulfilling the mine's commitment, and we hope that is being looked at positively by the stakeholders as well as by the court.

Speaker #3: It's a benefit that is not secured, right? Let me say that's the way we are looking at it. So we are sure that if the development of the— but we will continue to provide our commitment to the project.

Speaker #3: We continue to support the project, and we continue to make sure that whatever needs to be done on the ground to support the project, to develop the mine, we are fully supporting.

Speaker #3: While Celsius has not been supporting as a shareholder, what they should be doing—so actually, we are fulfilling the mine's commitment. And we hope that is being looked at positively by the stakeholders as well as by the court.

Speaker #4: Fair, fair. Thank you. Thank you so much, sir.

Kaushal Kedia: Fair. Thank you. Thank you so much.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Thank you.

Manish Kiri: Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vivek Joshi, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Operator 2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vivek Joshi, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vivek Joshi, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Yeah. Hi. Congratulations on a good set of numbers.

Vivek Joshi: Yeah. Hi. Congratulations on a good set of numbers.

Speaker #3: Thank you.

Manish Kiri: Thank you.

Speaker #4: I just want to get some more idea on the copper project. We had requested earlier also that if you can give us an update as to the capital employed and stuff on the copper side, it would be very useful.

Vivek Joshi: I just want to get some more idea on the copper project. We had requested earlier also that if you can give us the update as to the capital employed and stuff on the copper side, it would be very useful.

Speaker #4: Can you give us an update on how much capital there is, and how much is equity and how much is debt in the current balance sheet?

Manish Kiri: Sure.

Vivek Joshi: Can you give us an update as to how much capital is there, and how much is equity and how much is debt among the current balance sheet?

Speaker #3: Do you mean on the total project, or currently, it is all equity inclusion?

Manish Kiri: You mean on the total project or current? Currently, it is all equity infusion.

Speaker #4: Currently, as on the balance sheet, how much of in the copper project, how much of the capital is allocated to the copper project?

Vivek Joshi: Currently as on the balance sheet, in the copper project, how much of the capital is allocated to the copper project?

Speaker #3: From today, yes. The total capital deployed in the project is ₹1,400 crore, right, till now.

Manish Kiri: Yes, today the total capital deployed in the project is INR 1,400, right, till now.

Speaker #4: And all is equity? Or is it like half equity, half equity?

Vivek Joshi: And all is equity or is it like half equity, half-

Speaker #3: No, no. That's all equity right now. Yeah.

Manish Kiri: No, that's all equity right now.

Speaker #4: Okay. So, on the balance sheet, you still have some loans. So, whom are we lending money to now?

Vivek Joshi: Okay.

Vivek Joshi: Yeah.

Manish Kiri: Yeah.

Vivek Joshi: So on the balance sheet, you still have some loans. Whom are we lending money now?

Speaker #3: We still have loans. You mean the borrowings?

Vivek Joshi: We still have loans? You mean the borrowings?

Manish Kiri: We still have loans? You mean the borrowings?

Speaker #4: No, no. We have given loans to people, so like...

Vivek Joshi: No, we have given loans to people too.

Speaker #3: These are all part of the part of the treasury activities that we do. And some of the loans yeah. And some of the loans are into company loans.

Manish Kiri: These are all part of the treasury activities that we do.

Vivek Joshi: Okay.

Manish Kiri: Some of the loans are intercompany loans.

Speaker #4: Okay. Thank you, sir.

Vivek Joshi: Okay. Thank you, sir.

Speaker #3: Thank you.

Manish Kiri: Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Farooq BV, an individual investor. Please go ahead.

Operator 2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Swaroop B.V. at Investa. Please go ahead.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Swaroop B.V. at Investa. Please go ahead.

Speaker #5: Hi, sir. Just a follow-up question on the earlier questionnaire. The thing is, you are saying that all the margins have been passed on to Lawrence and Kiri.

Swaroop B.V.: Hi, sir. Just a follow-up question on earlier question. The thing is, you are saying that all the margins have been passed on to Lonsen Kiri. But have you considered the tax impact, sir? So what happens is now, since you are passing on the margin to Launchpad, suppose they are earning INR 100 and 25% is paid as tax, then later on 70 No, Lonsen Kiri pays. No, assume their EBITDA would be INR 100, then later on they pay some tax, then net profit of Lonsen Kiri would be 75. Then later on, Lonsen Kiri declares dividend, and that 75 we receive. Then again, later on, Kiri again pays 25% tax on this other income. Don't you think it will be a 40% tax effectively, sir, on whatever net that we have?

Swaroop B V: Hi, sir. Just a follow-up question on earlier question. The thing is, you are saying that all the margins have been passed on to Lonsen Kiri. But have you considered the tax impact, sir? So what happens is now, since you are passing on the margin to Launchpad, suppose they are earning INR 100 and 25% is paid as tax, then later on 70 No, Lonsen Kiri pays. No, assume their EBITDA would be INR 100, then later on they pay some tax, then net profit of Lonsen Kiri would be 75. Then later on, Lonsen Kiri declares dividend, and that 75 we receive. Then again, later on, Kiri again pays 25% tax on this other income. Don't you think it will be a 40% tax effectively, sir, on whatever net that we have?

Speaker #5: But what’s actually—have you considered the tax impact, sir? What happens is, now since you’re passing on the margin to Lawrence, suppose they are earning 100 rupees.

Speaker #5: And 25% is paid as tax. Then later on, Lawrence and Kiri pay nothing. Assume their turnover would be 100, EBITDA would be 100 rupees.

Speaker #5: Then later on, they pay some tax. Then net, net, net profit of Lawrence and Kiri would be 75. Then later on, Lawrence and Kiri declare dividend.

Speaker #5: And that $75 we receive. Then again, later on, Kiri again pays 25% tax on this other income. And don’t you think there will be a 40% tax, effectively, sir, on whatever net that we are?

Speaker #3: See, if you look at the transactions between the companies, they're all arm's length transactions, number one. And we have to be conducting arm's length transactions, complying with the law, correct?

Manish Kiri: If you look at the transactions between the companies, these are all arm's length transaction, number one, and we have to be conducting arm's length transaction complying the law. Correct? Whatever raw materials are supplied from Kiri to JV, those are again arm's length transaction. Whatever earnings that happen at the JV, that happens at JV. If you look at the quarter's number, INR 16 crore is the EBITDA generated by Kiri and INR 21 crore is 40% of Kiri's EBITDA generated at JV. Right? Whatever are the profits, they are part wherever these profits are generated. Right? If they are generated at JV level, they are at the JV level. If they are generated at Kiri level, they are at the Kiri level. Correct?

Speaker #3: So, whatever raw materials are supplied from Kiri to the JV, those are again arm's length transactions. And then, whatever earnings happen at the JV, that happens at the JV.

Speaker #3: If you look at the last—I mean, the quarter's number—₹16 crore is the EBITDA generated by Kiri. And ₹21 crore is 40% of Kiri's EBITDA generated at the JV, right?

Speaker #3: So and so, whatever are the profits, are the profits. They are part—wherever these profits are generated, right? So, if they are generated at the JV level, they are at the JV level.

Speaker #3: If they are generated at Kiri level, they are at the Kiri level, correct? And then, whatever tax is applicable at each level, we pay that tax.

Swaroop B.V.: Understood.

Swaroop B V: Understood.

Manish Kiri: Whatever tax applicable at each level, we pay that tax. That's how we should be working. Correct?

Speaker #3: That's how we should be working, correct?

Speaker #5: So, is there any update on the stake sale, sir, regarding the 40% stake sale? There were talks earlier.

Swaroop B.V.: Is there any update on stake sale, sir, regarding 41% stake sale? There were talks earlier.

Swaroop B V: Is there any update on stake sale, sir, regarding 41% stake sale? There were talks earlier.

Speaker #3: No, there is no talk. There are no such discussions currently.

Swaroop B.V.: No, there is no talk, there is no such discussions currently.

Manish Kiri: No, there is no talk, there is no such discussions currently.

Speaker #5: Understood. Sir, my second question is with respect to, like earlier you had guided for Rs. 1,000 to 1,200 crore EBITDA for FY27-28. So basically, sir, on what basis is this assumption made, sir?

Swaroop B.V.: Understood. Sir, my second question is with respect to, earlier you had guided a INR 1,000, INR 1,200 crore EBITDA for FY27, FY28. Basically, sir, on what basis is the assumption made, sir? For example, in FY27, FY28, if we process rods and tubes hardly have an EBITDA margin of INR 15,000 to INR 20,000 per ton. Even if you process 100,000 ton, our EBITDA would be hardly INR 200 to INR 250 crore. But what you are projecting is close to INR 1,000, INR 1,200 crore. On what basis is this projection made, sir? Such a huge gap variation. On what basis is this made, sir?

Swaroop B V: Understood. Sir, my second question is with respect to, earlier you had guided a INR 1,000, INR 1,200 crore EBITDA for FY27, FY28. Basically, sir, on what basis is the assumption made, sir? For example, in FY27, FY28, if we process rods and tubes hardly have an EBITDA margin of INR 15,000 to INR 20,000 per ton. Even if you process 100,000 ton, our EBITDA would be hardly INR 200 to INR 250 crore. But what you are projecting is close to INR 1,000, INR 1,200 crore. On what basis is this projection made, sir? Such a huge gap variation. On what basis is this made, sir?

Speaker #5: For example, in 2027-28, if we process rods and tubes, hardly our EBITDA margin is ₹15,000 to ₹20,000 per ton. Even if we process 1 lakh tons, our EBITDA would be hardly ₹200 to ₹250 crore.

Speaker #5: But what you are projecting is close to ₹1,000, ₹1,200 crore. On what basis is this projection made, sir? Such a huge gap—such variation. On what basis is this made, sir?

Speaker #3: Right. So if you do a simple math, right, it all depends on when the facilities become operational. And there is no hard line here.

Manish Kiri: Right. If you do a simple math, right, it all depends on when the facilities become operational, and there is no hard line here, and I just mentioned earlier as well, the projections are changing. They will keep changing based on the timelines to make the facilities operational. Correct? As I referred earlier, these numbers will change, and these number are not the number which are numbers on the existing established commercial operation. Correct? We are projecting something where there is a moving target on starting and establishing commercial operation. You need to take that variation into consideration, number one. Number two, even if you do 100,000 ton in today's prices, that comes to INR 15,000 crore of revenue, just from 100,000 ton. Correct?

Speaker #3: And I just mentioned earlier as well, the projections are changing. They will keep changing based on the timelines to make the facilities operational, correct?

Speaker #3: So, as I referred to earlier, these numbers will change. And these numbers are not the numbers which are the numbers on the existing established commercial operation.

Speaker #3: Correct? So, we are projecting something where there is a moving target on starting and establishing commercial operation. So, you need to take that variation into consideration, number one.

Speaker #3: Number two, even if you, even if you do 1 lakh tons, in today's prices, right, that comes to ₹15,000 crore of revenue just from 1 lakh tons.

Speaker #3: Correct? And if you make and if you make 6% on it, right, then also it becomes.

Swaroop B.V.: Correct.

Swaroop B V: Correct.

Manish Kiri: And if you make 6% on it, then also it becomes

Speaker #5: Six percent—how will 6% be made, sir? When you are purchasing cathode from outside now, sir, how can 6% be captured on only standalone rod and tube plants?

Swaroop B.V.: How will 6% be made, sir? When you are purchasing cathode from outside now, sir, how can 6% be captured on only standalone rod and tube plants?

Swaroop B V: How will 6% be made, sir? When you are purchasing cathode from outside now, sir, how can 6% be captured on only standalone rod and tube plants?

Speaker #3: I think I think you should study what are the price structures for the for the for the products such as copper, tubes, rods, wires, right?

Manish Kiri: I think you should study what are the price structures for the products such as copper tubes, rods, wires. Correct? How these price ranges exist in the market, what LME markup each of the downstream products is prevailing in the market. When you look at the consolidated effect on the prices prevailing on LME plus operations in the downstream products, you will see these kind of numbers.

Speaker #3: Is this correct? How do these price ranges exist in the market? What LME markup for each of the downstream products is prevailing in the market? When you look at the consolidated effect on the prices prevailing on LME, plus operations in the downstream products, you will see these kinds of numbers.

Speaker #5: Perfect. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks a lot, sir. But last question, sir. With respect to MMCI, would we still be interested in being a PDEP partner, or would we be attaining some stake in MMCI, mindset?

Swaroop B.V.: Sure, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot, sir. But last question, sir. With respect to MMCI, would we be still interested in being a Programme Delivery Partner or would we be attaining some stake in MMCI mine, sir?

Swaroop B V: Sure, sir. Thank you. Thanks a lot, sir. But last question, sir. With respect to MMCI, would we be still interested in being a Programme Delivery Partner or would we be attaining some stake in MMCI mine, sir?

Speaker #3: We would. We would definitely be interested—100% interested. It depends on how the overall situation resolves from the litigation perspective.

Manish Kiri: We would definitely be interested, 100% interested. It depends on how this overall situation resolve from the litigation perspective.

Speaker #5: Sure. Thank you. Thanks a lot.

Swaroop B.V.: Sure. Thank you. Thanks a lot.

Swaroop B V: Sure. Thank you. Thanks a lot.

Speaker #3: Thank ank you.

Manish Kiri: Okay.

Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Rijith Malakkar with Ashikash Stock Services. Please go ahead.

Operator 2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Arijit Malik with Ashika Stock Services. Please go ahead.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Arijit Malik with Ashika Stock Services. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I have two questions, five fast question is that for your copper business, which companies mining companies you have tied up for their long-term sourcing?

Arijit Malik: Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I have two questions. My first question is that for your copper business, which mining companies you have tied up for your long-term sourcing?

Arijit Malakar: Thanks for the opportunity. Sir, I have two questions. My first question is that for your copper business, which mining companies you have tied up for your long-term sourcing?

Speaker #3: Well, there are leading miners and traders. They are global companies. We would not be mentioning everyone's name here because there is confidentiality involved in the agreement execution.

Manish Kiri: Well, there are leading miners and traders. They are global companies. We would not be mentioning everyone's name here because there are confidentiality involved in the agreement executed. But they are the leading providers of the sources of copper, with whom we have done.

Speaker #3: But they are the leading providers of the sources of copper. We think we have done.

Speaker #4: Okay, got it. My second question is: sir, you mentioned that maximum revenue from the copper business will be achieved in FY30. So, when will your debt requirement process start?

Arijit Malik: Okay, got it. My second question is that, sir, you have told that maximum revenue from the copper business will be achieved in FY30. So when your debt repayment process will start?

Arijit Malakar: Okay, got it. My second question is that, sir, you have told that maximum revenue from the copper business will be achieved in FY30. So when your debt repayment process will start?

Manish Kiri: Because today the company has not done any drawdown on the debt. Right.

Speaker #3: Because, as of today, the company has not done any drawdown on the debt, right? And considering the moratorium which has been allowed, the debt repayment will start somewhere in 2029, not before that.

Arijit Malik: Okay.

Arijit Malakar: Okay.

Manish Kiri: And considering the moratorium which has been allowed, the debt repayment will start somewhere in 2029, not before that.

Speaker #4: Okay, got it, sir. Thank you. That's all from my end.

Arijit Malik: Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you. That is all from my end.

Arijit Malakar: Okay. Got it, sir. Thank you. That is all from my end.

Manish Kiri: Okay.

Speaker #1: Thank you. The next question comes from Manoj Kumar of Adinath Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Operator 2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Manoj Kumar from Adinath Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Manoj Kumar from Adinath Financial Services. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Manish bhai, once again, welcome back.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Manoj, bye. Once again-

Manoj Kumar: Manoj, bye. Once again-

Manish Kiri: Welcome. Welcome back.

Speaker #5: My question is, my suggestion was, why don't we structure into Asia fund requirement from equity? Because the market is very good and our financial strength is very good.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: My suggestion was, why don't we structure Indo Asia fund requirement from equity?

Manoj Kumar: My suggestion was, why don't we structure Indo Asia fund requirement from equity? Because market is very good and our financial strength is very good. So that we don't have to take any loan whatsoever.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Because market is very good and our financial strength is very good.

Speaker #5: So that we don't have to take any loan whatsoever.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: So that we don't have to take any loan whatsoever.

Speaker #3: Well, then the return on equity will reduce if we do that, correct?

Manish Kiri: Well, then the return on equity will reduce if we do that, correct?

Manoj Kumar Bhura: No. Why it will, sir? When it is a huge project and

Manoj Kumar: No. Why it will, sir? When it is a huge project and

Speaker #5: Why will it, sir? When it is a huge project, and the profitability will be very good, and we have already issued shares at the rate of 278. Last allotment was made from Indonesia at the rate of 278.

Manish Kiri: Yeah

Manoj Kumar Bhura: the profitability will be very good. We have already issued shares at the rate of 278.

Manoj Kumar: the profitability will be very good. We have already issued shares at the rate of 278.

Manish Kiri: Right.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Last allotment was made from Indo Asia at the rate of 278. Then we can command a very good premium in the market. If we issue share at around 500, 700 rupees

Manoj Kumar: Last allotment was made from Indo Asia at the rate of 278. Then we can command a very good premium in the market. If we issue share at around 500, 700 rupees

Speaker #5: Then we can command a very good premium in the market. If you say, if we issue shares at around ₹500 or ₹700, depending on the market demand, we can have enough money to fund our...

Manish Kiri: Yeah

Manoj Kumar Bhura: depending on the market demand, we can have enough money to fund our project.

Manoj Kumar: depending on the market demand, we can have enough money to fund our project.

Speaker #3: You are right. That's definitely an option. That's definitely an option.

Manish Kiri: You are right. That is definitely an option there.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Yeah. So that we are not at all burdened with any loan repayment, term loan, whatever it is. We are free from all those hassles.

Manoj Kumar: Yeah. So that we are not at all burdened with any loan repayment, term loan, whatever it is. We are free from all those hassles.

Speaker #5: So that we are not at all burdened with any loan repayment, term loan, whatever it is—we are free from all those hassles.

Speaker #3: Right. See, look at the numbers. And I agree with you from the angles that you have just mentioned. And actually, it would help the management also to have less stress, isn't it?

Manish Kiri: Right. Look at the numbers, I agree with you from the angles that you have just mentioned, it would help the management also to have lesser stress, isn't it, on the debt side.

Speaker #3: On the debt side.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Recently we have taken an equity infusion in Indo Asia also from one round about-

Speaker #5: And recently, we have taken an equity infusion in Indo-Asia also, from one roundabout at around ₹232 crore. We have got—why don't we tap all those persons who are interested to invest?

Manoj Kumar: Recently we have taken an equity infusion in Indo Asia also from one round about-

Manish Kiri: Correct

Manoj Kumar Bhura: INR 230 crore, we had got.

Manoj Kumar: INR 230 crore, we had got.

Manish Kiri: That is what I was about to say.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Why don't we take all those persons who are interested to invest?

Manoj Kumar: Why don't we take all those persons who are interested to invest?

Speaker #3: Right. So, we have taped.

Manish Kiri: Right. We can. We have tested.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Keeping our stake as more than 50% and reducing and diluting balance portion for financing of the project.

Manoj Kumar: Keeping our stake as more than 50% and reducing and diluting balance portion for financing of the project.

Speaker #5: More than 50%, and reducing and diluting balance force, sir, for financing of the project.

Speaker #3: So here is the answer to you. We definitely have that option, and we have tested the waters, as you have rightly said, okay? So, having tested the waters means there is an interest.

Manish Kiri: So, here is the answer to you. We definitely have that option, and we have tested water, as you have rightly said. Okay. We have tested water means there is an interest. That option still remain a valid option. The trade-off happens here in a sense that if we are able to successfully execute the project without diluting today, and generating profit, building numbers, and then dilute. There is a huge delta upside for the shareholders of Kiri. Correct? That means that the value creation by deferred dilution post-execution of the project would be much, much higher. So that value capturing for Kiri shareholders would provide more benefit to the shareholder. With that in mind, to look at the larger interest of the shareholders' value creation, we are putting a capital structure, what has been decided today.

Speaker #3: And that option still remains and is a valid option. The trade-off happens here. In a sense, if we are able to successfully execute the project without diluting today, right, and generate profit-building numbers and then dilute, right, there is a huge delta upside for the shareholders of Kiri, correct?

Speaker #3: That means that the value creation by deferred dilution post-execution of the project would be much, much higher. So, that value capturing for Kiri shareholders would provide more benefit to the shareholders.

Speaker #3: And with that in mind, to look at the larger interest of the shareholders' value creation, we are putting a capital structure, which has been decided today.

Speaker #3: But again, as you have said, there is always an option to do that and complete the financial requirements if we need, and there is enough interest for that.

Manish Kiri: But again, as you have said, there is always an option to do that and complete the financial requirements if we need. There is enough interest for that. We have tested, we have invited, and we have seen the real infusion. So that is there. That is a plan B, but we see how we can progress from here. Yeah.

Speaker #3: We have tested. We have invited, and we have seen the real infusion, so that is there. That is there. That's there as a plan B.

Speaker #3: But we see how we can progress from here. Yeah.

Manoj Kumar Bhura: Regarding our Odisha foray, in one interview, the MD of IPL had stated that Kiri is participating in some agrochemical complex near Dhamra Port.

Manoj Kumar: Regarding our Odisha foray, in one interview, the MD of IPL had stated that Kiri is participating in some agrochemical complex near Dhamra Port.

Speaker #5: Regarding our Odisha foray, in one interview, the MD of EPCOL had stated that Kiri is participating in some agro-chemical complex near Dhamra Port. What is the status of that?

Manish Kiri: Right.

Operator 2: What you think in the future?

Manoj Kumar: What you think in the future?

Speaker #3: There has been discussion on certain chemical projects, particularly the large one, which we would not embark on right now until we make the existing projects operational.

Manish Kiri: There has been discussion on certain chemical projects, the large one, which we would not embark on right now till we make the existing projects operational. But it is part of our long-term vision and any approvals also take time. So there are certain chemicals, specialty chemicals, that we have looked at. Again, those are part of the import substitute and import replacement requirements for the country. But it is quite far currently. So it is all preliminary stage and where we have serious interest to develop a large chemical complex somewhere near port there. And government has given us quite a good support in terms of incentives as well as in terms of the requirements which such project might attract too. So we continue to explore these opportunities, but execution will be sequentially and not parallelly.

Speaker #3: But it's part of our long-term vision, and any approvals also take time. So there are certain chemicals—especially chemicals—that we have looked at.

Speaker #3: Again, those are part of the import substitute and import replacement requirements for the country. But it's quite far currently, so it's all at a preliminary stage.

Speaker #3: And where we have serious interest to develop a large chemical complex somewhere near the port there. And the government has given us quite good support in terms of incentives.

Speaker #3: As well as in terms of the requirements which such a project might attract, too. So we continue to explore these opportunities. But execution will be sequential and not parallel.

Speaker #1: Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments.

Operator 2: Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments.

Operator: Thank you, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for their closing comments.

Speaker #3: Thank you all for participating in this earnest conference call. I hope we are able to answer your questions satisfactorily and, at the same time, offer insights into our business.

Manish Kiri: Thank you all for participating in this earnings conference call. I hope we were able to answer your questions satisfactorily and at the same time offer insights into our business. If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, please reach out to our investor relations managers at Valorum Advisors. Thank you and wishing you all a great day ahead. Happy Independence Day to all. Thank you.

Speaker #3: If you have any further questions or would like to know more about the company, please reach out to our Investor Relations managers at Vellorum Advisors.

Speaker #3: Thank you, and wishing you all a great day ahead. Happy Independence Day to everyone. Thank you.

Speaker #1: Thank you. On behalf of Kiri Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us. And you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

Operator 2: Thank you. On behalf of Kiri Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

Operator: Thank you. On behalf of Kiri Industries Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

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Q1 2027 Kiri Industries Ltd Earnings Call

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