Q1 2027 Max Financial Services Ltd Earnings Call

August 13, 2026

Speaker #3: Ladies and gentlemen, you are connected for the MAX Financial Services Limited conference call. Please stay connected. The conference will begin shortly. Participants, you are connected for the MAX Financial Services Limited conference call.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, you are connected for the Max Financial Services Limited conference call. Please stay connected. The conference will begin shortly. Participants, you are connected for the Max Financial Services Limited conference call. Please stay connected. This conference will begin shortly. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Max Financial Services Limited Q1 FY27 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal the operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nishant Kumar, Chief Financial Officer of Max Financial Services Limited, for opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Operator: Ladies and gentlemen, good day, and welcome to Max Financial Services Limited Q1 FY27 earnings conference call.

Speaker #3: Please stay connected. This conference will begin shortly. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Ladies and gentlemen, good day and welcome to MAX Financial Services Limited Q1, FY27 earnings conference call. As a reminder, all participant clients will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes.

Operator: As a reminder, all participant lines will be in the listen-only mode, and there will be an opportunity for you to ask questions after the presentation concludes. Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal the operator by pressing star then zero on your touchtone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded. I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nishant Kumar, Chief Financial Officer of Max Financial Services Limited, for opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Speaker #4: Should you need assistance during the conference call, please signal the operator by pressing star, then zero, on your touch-tone phone. Please note that this conference is being recorded.

Speaker #4: I now hand the conference over to Mr. Nishant Kumar, Chief Financial Officer of MAX Financial Services Limited, for opening remarks. Thank you, and over to you, sir.

Speaker #5: Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining the MAX Financial Services earnings call for the quarter ended June 30, 2026. Our Q1 FY27 results have been released and are available on our website as well as on the stock exchanges.

Nishant Kumar Gehlawat: Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining Max Financial Services earning call for the quarter ended 30 June 2026. Our Q1 FY27 results have been released and are available on our website as well as on the stock exchanges. Joining me today are Mr. Sumit Madan, Managing Director and CEO, and Mr. Amrit Singh, Chief Financial Officer of Max Life. With that, let me hand over the call to Sumit to take you through our performance and key developments during the first quarter of FY27.

Nishant Kumar: Thank you. Good evening, everyone, and thank you for joining Max Financial Services earning call for the quarter ended 30 June 2026. Our Q1 FY27 results have been released and are available on our website as well as on the stock exchanges. Joining me today are Mr. Sumit Madan, Managing Director and CEO, and Mr. Amrit Singh, Chief Financial Officer of Max Life. With that, let me hand over the call to Sumit to take you through our performance and key developments during the first quarter of FY27.

Speaker #5: Joining me today are Mr. Sumit Madan, Managing Director and CEO, and Mr. Analjit Singh, Chief Financial Officer of Axis MAX Life. With that, let me hand over the call to Sumit to take you through our performance and key developments during the first quarter of FY27.

Speaker #6: Okay, yeah. Thank you, Nishant. And good evening, everyone. As you are aware, Q1 was marked by a geopolitical uncertainty, and a very volatile macro environment.

Sumit Madan: Yeah. Thank you, Nishant, and good evening everyone. As you are aware, Q1 was marked by geopolitical uncertainties and a very volatile macro environment that weighed on the market sentiment. Despite these challenges, the Indian economy remained resilient, supported by some very strong domestic fundamentals. Against this backdrop, we stayed focused on execution, continued to advance our strategic priorities, and maintain disciplined risk and capital management. To begin with, we achieved a key milestone during the quarter with the completion of Axis Bank's acquisition of an additional 0.98% stake in Axis Max Life Insurance through an equity infusion of INR 381 crores, increasing its shareholding to 19.99%. The infusion enhanced our financial strength, raising our solvency ratio to a robust 198%, while further underscoring the commitment of our promoters and their confidence in our strategy, execution capabilities, and long-term value creation potential.

Speaker #6: That weighed on the market sentiment. Despite these challenges, the Indian economy remained resilient, supported by some very strong domestic fundamentals. Against this backdrop, we stayed focused on execution, continued to advance our strategic priorities, and maintained disciplined risk and capital management.

Speaker #6: To begin with, we achieved a key milestone during the quarter with the completion of Axis Bank's acquisition of an additional 0.98% stake in Axis Max Life Insurance through an equity infusion of Rs.

Speaker #6: 381 crores. Increasing its shareholding to 19.99%. The infusion enhanced our financial strength, raising our solvency ratio to a robust 198%. While further underscoring the commitment of our promoters and their confidence in our strategy execution capabilities, and long-term value creation potential.

Speaker #6: With that context, let me take you through the performance highlights across our strategic-focused areas during the quarter. Following a very successful FY26, we have started FY27 on a strong note.

Sumit Madan: With that context, let me take you through the performance highlights across our strategic focus areas during the quarter. Following a very successful FY2026, we have started FY2027 on a strong note, carrying forward our growth momentum and delivering a healthy performance in the first quarter. Our focus remains on building a sustainable and profitable franchise while creating long-term value for all stakeholders, including customers, employees, distribution partners, and shareholders. In Q1 FY2027, our individual adjusted first-year premium grew by 17%, outperforming both the private sector and the overall industry growth. More importantly, our growth remains consistent and sustainable with a two-year CAGR of 20%, which is well ahead of the private industry CAGR of 12% and double the overall industry growth rate of 10%.

Speaker #6: Carrying forward our growth momentum and delivering a healthy performance in the first quarter. Our focus remains on building a sustainable and profitable franchise while creating long-term value for all stakeholders, including customers, employees, distribution partners, and shareholders.

Speaker #6: In Q1 FY27, our individual adjusted first-year premium grew by 17%, outperforming both the private sector and the overall industry growth. More importantly, our growth remains consistent and sustainable, with a two-year CAGR of 20%, which is well ahead of the private industry CAGR of 12% and 10%.

Speaker #6: Our APE grew by 15% during the quarter, supported by balanced contributions from both proprietary and the partnership channels, growing at 15% and 16% respectively.

Sumit Madan: Our APE grew by 15% during the quarter, supported by balanced contributions from both proprietary and the partnership channel, growing at 15% and 16% respectively. Our proprietary channels continue to be a key engine of growth, delivering a strong three-year APE CAGR of 26% while offline proprietary sales recorded 9% growth in Q1. Our online business continued to lead the market with a 27% APE growth. Within partnerships, APE growth of 16% was driven by 14% growth from Axis Bank and 21% growth from other partners, again underscoring the breadth and the resilience of our distribution franchise. We also continue to make some very strong progress in the Group Credit Life segment, delivering a 57% growth in Q1 FY2027. It is also noteworthy that 45% of our GCL business has been sourced from partners we added in the last three years, diversifying our presence in this segment.

Speaker #6: Our proprietary channels continue to be a key engine of growth, delivering a strong three-year APE CAGR of 26%. Offline proprietary sales recorded 9% growth in Q1.

Speaker #6: Our online business continued to lead the market with a 27% APE growth. Within partnerships, APE growth of 16% was driven by 14% growth from Axis Bank and 21% growth from other partners, again underscoring the breadth and the resilience of our distribution franchise.

Speaker #6: We also continue to make some very strong progress in the group credit life segment, delivering a 57% growth in Q1 FY27. It's also noteworthy that 45% of our GCL business has been sourced from partners we added in the last three years.

Speaker #6: Diversifying our presence in this segment. In addition, we have onboarded several meaningful credit life partnerships during the quarter, which are expected to further strengthen growth momentum in the coming quarters.

Sumit Madan: In addition, we have onboarded several meaningful credit life partnerships during the quarter, which are expected to further strengthen growth momentum in the coming quarters. We also continue to expand our addressable market through some very targeted strategic initiatives. During the quarter, we launched our USD-denominated offering of Smart Gift Plan, enhancing our ability to serve the growing NRI customer segment. Further, we launched Auris, our exclusive proposition for high-net-worth individuals designed to deliver a differentiated experience and tailored wealth and protection solutions for this very critical segment of customers. At Axis Max Life, innovation remains a core strategic lever, enabling us to address evolving customer needs while driving the long-term value creation for all our stakeholders. Our focus continues to be on building a balanced and diversified portfolio mix that supports sustainable growth, improves the product mix, and enhances the margins.

Speaker #6: We also continue to expand our adversable market through some very targeted strategic initiatives. During the quarter, we launched our USD denominated offering of smart gift plan, enhancing our ability to serve the growing NRI customer segment.

Speaker #6: Further, we launched AURUS, our exclusive proposition for high net worth individuals designed to deliver a differentiated experience and tailored wealth and protection solutions for this very critical segment of customers.

Speaker #6: At Axis MAX Life, innovation remains a core strategic lever enabling us to address evolving customer needs while driving the long-term value creation for all our stakeholders.

Speaker #6: Our focus continues to be on building a balanced and diversified portfolio mix that supports sustainable growth, improves the product mix, and enhances margins.

Speaker #6: Q1 FY27 largely reflected a normalization of growth across traditional savings products, while maintaining the product mix strengths seen over the previous recent quarter. Participating products continued to witness strong traction, growing 48% and contributing 15% of the overall APE.

Sumit Madan: Q1 FY27 largely reflected a normalization of growth across traditional savings products while maintaining the product mix trends seen over the previous recent quarters. Participating products continued to witness strong traction, growing 48% and contributing 15% of the overall APE. The nonpar segment saw a relatively lower contribution compared to the same period last year, reflecting a higher base effect. Despite volatile market conditions, our ULIP business grew 19%, supported by the launch of Smart Gift Plan. Protection remains one of our key strategic priorities. During the quarter, we further strengthened our proposition for the self-employed customer segment, and as a result, our protection and health business grew 44%, led by a 57% growth in riders, reflecting increasing customer demand for comprehensive protection solutions. Retirement solutions continue to represent a significant long-term opportunity. Our annuities business delivered an exceptional 116% growth during the quarter.

Speaker #6: The non-part segment saw a relatively lower contribution compared to the same period last year, reflecting a higher base effect. Despite volatile market conditions, our ULIP business grew 19%, supported by the launch of the Smart Gift Plan.

Speaker #6: Protection remains one of our key strategic priorities. During the quarter, we further strengthened our proposition for the self-employed customer segment, and as a result, our protection and health business grew 44%, led by 57% growth in riders, reflecting increasing customer demand for comprehensive protection solutions.

Speaker #6: Retirement solutions continue to represent a significant long-term opportunity. Our annuities business delivered an exceptional 116% growth during the quarter. We further expanded our retirement portfolio with the launch of smart rides, a variable annuity product that combines guaranteed lifelong income with participation in long-term equity market performance, offering customers an attractive balance between security and growth.

Sumit Madan: We further expanded our retirement portfolio with the launch of Smart RISE, a variable annuity product that combines guaranteed lifelong income with participation in long-term equity market performance, offering customers an attractive balance between security and growth. The strong growth in our protection and annuity business, coupled with favorable yield curve, resulted in a meaningful improvement in profitability. Consequently, our VNB margin expanded from 20.3% in Q1 of FY26 to 23.2% in Q1 FY27, driving a robust 33% growth in the value of new business or VNB. This reflects the success of our strategy to build a higher quality, more profitable, and a sustainable business. Needless to add, at Axis Max Life, customer trust or the Bharosa remains the foundation of our franchise, and we are proud to see this reflected across key customer-centric metrics.

Speaker #6: The strong growth in our protection and annuity business, coupled with favorable yield curve, resulted in a meaningful improvement in profitability. Consequently, our VNB margin expanded from 20.3% in Q1 of FY26 to 23.2% in Q1 FY27, driving a robust 33% growth in the value of new business or VNB.

Speaker #6: This reflects the success of our strategy to build a higher quality, more profitable, and sustainable business. Needless to add, at Axis MAX Life, customer trust, or Bharosa, remains the foundation of our franchise.

Speaker #6: And we are proud to see this reflected across key customer-centric metrics. In FY26, we achieved our highest ever individual death claim settlement ratio of 99.8%, reaffirming our unwavering commitment to standing by our customers and their families when they truly need us the most.

Sumit Madan: In FY26, we achieved our highest ever individual death claims paid ratio of 99.8%, reaffirming our unwavering commitment to standing by our customers and their families when they truly need us the most. Further strengthening this trust, our InstaClaim service now settles 67% of eligible claims within one single day, delivering a faster and more seamless claims experience. We were also recognized as the number one life insurer in customer experience in India in Hansa Research's syndicated Life Insurance CuES 2026 study, improving from the second position held over the previous three years, with a customer experience score of 61. These milestones underscore the confidence customers place in the Axis Max Life brand and our ability to consistently deliver on that promise. Our 13-month premium persistency stood at 83%.

Speaker #6: Further strengthening this trust, our Insta claim service now settles 67% of eligible claims within a single day, delivering a faster and more seamless claims experience.

Speaker #6: We were also recognized as the number one life insurer in customer experience in India in Hansa Research, indicated Life Insurance Q2026 study, improving from the second position held over the previous three years.

Speaker #6: With a customer experience score of 61, these milestones underscore the confidence customers place in the Axis MAX Life brand and our ability to consistently deliver on that promise.

Speaker #6: Our 13-month premium persistency stood at 83%. Additionally, longer-tenure persistency metrics, including 37th month, 49th month, and 61st month persistency, continued to improve on both premium and number of policy bases, reflecting the growing quality and durability of our business.

Sumit Madan: Additionally, longer tenure persistency metrics including 37th month, 49th month, and 61-month persistency, continue to improve on both premium and number of policy basis, reflecting the growing quality and durability of our business. Customer advocacy also remains strong. Our net promoter score increased 263 from a baseline of 60 at FY25 exit. Touchpoint NPS improved by two points to 65, while relationship NPS again increased meaningfully to 61 from 57. All reflecting the strength of our customer engagement initiatives and some very strong service propositions. Axis Max Life digital technology and AI strategy is transforming the company into a platform-led, intelligence-driven insurer. At the core of this strategy is pervasive intelligence with AI, GenAI, and analytics embedded across customer journeys, distribution, underwriting, servicing, and employee productivity, all supported by some very agile technology platforms and a modern data foundation.

Speaker #6: Customer advocacy also remains strong. Our overall net promoter score increased from 63. Our net promoter score increased to 63 from a baseline of 60 at FY25 exit.

Speaker #6: Touchpoint NPS improved by 2 points to 65, while relationship NPS again increased meaningfully to 61 from 57, all reflecting the strength of our customer engagement initiatives and some very strong service proposition.

Speaker #6: Axis MAX Life digital technology and AI strategy is transforming the company into a platform-led intelligence-driven insurer. At the core of this strategy is pervasive intelligence with AI, Gen AI, and analytics embedded across customer journeys, distribution, underwriting servicing, and employee productivity.

Speaker #6: All supported by some very agile technology platforms and a modern data foundation. In digital commerce and acquisition, we continue to strengthen our D2C franchise through superior proposition discovery, AI-led marketing, and lead nurturing and optimized onboarding journey.

Sumit Madan: In digital commerce and acquisition, we continue to strengthen our D2C franchise through superior proposition discovery, AI-led marketing, and lead nurturing, and optimize onboarding journey. Our digitally empowered distribution platform, mSpace, as we call it, equips advisors with recruitment intelligence, personalized engagement, next best action recommendations, and performance nudges. The ecosystem now supports 36,000 monthly active users with over 90% adoption, helping us drive improved productivity and sales effectiveness. Through our customer app, customers benefit from AI-enabled self-service, wellness offerings, personalized engagement, and digital servicing. We have also simplified claims experience across the web and customer app to improve customer ease and accessibility. With over 10 lakh installs and 4 lakh monthly active users, the platform is emerging as a key engagement channel across the customer lifecycle. AI and analytics are increasingly becoming the operating backbone of Axis Max Life.

Speaker #6: Our digitally empowered distribution platform, Mspace, as we call it, equips advisors with recruitment intelligence, personalized engagement, next best action recommendations, and performance nudges. The ecosystem now supports 36,000 monthly active users with over 90% adoption, helping us drive improved productivity and sales effectiveness.

Speaker #6: Through our customer app, customers benefit from AI-enabled self-service, wellness offerings, personalized engagement, and digital servicing. We have also simplified claims experience across website and customer app to improve customer ease and accessibility.

Speaker #6: With over 1 million installs and 400,000 monthly active users, the platform is emerging as a key engagement channel across the customer lifecycle. AI and analytics are increasingly becoming the operating backbone of Axis MAX Life.

Speaker #6: We now have 30-plus AI/ML models in production across recruitment, sales, underwriting, servicing, and cross-sell. AI-based digital prospecting generated 38,000 recruitment leads. Our AI sales co-pilot has supported 27,000-plus sales interactions, recommendation engines have shifted 50% of quotes to higher value variants, and voice analytics has assessed over 200,000 customer interactions.

Sumit Madan: We now have 30-plus AI ML models in production across recruitment, sales, underwriting, servicing, and cross-sell. AI-based digital prospecting generated 38,000 recruitment leads. Our AI sales copilot has supported 27,000-plus sales interactions. Recommendation engines have shifted 50% of goals to higher value variants, and voice analytics has assessed 2 lakh-plus customer interactions. In servicing, the GenAI email bot has resolved 40,000 queries, while AI-driven cross-sell initiatives have delivered INR 58 crore of new business, demonstrating Axis Max Life AI's growing contribution to growth, productivity, and customer experience. To summarize, I would like to highlight we have had a strong start to the year with solid performance across all the key metrics. While global geopolitical developments continue to shape the market dynamics, we remain confident in our ability to deliver on our guidance of outperforming the industry and drive sustained value for all stakeholders.

Speaker #6: In servicing, the Gen AI email bot has resolved 40,000 queries, while AI-driven cross-sell initiatives have delivered ₹58 crore of new business, demonstrating Axis MAX Life AI's growing contribution to growth, productivity, and customer experience.

Speaker #6: To summarize, I would like to highlight that we have had a strong start to the year, with solid performance across all the key metrics. While global geopolitical developments continue to shape the market dynamics, we remain confident in our ability to deliver on our guidance of outperforming the industry and driving sustained value for all stakeholders.

Speaker #6: With that, I will now hand over to Amrit, who will provide an update on our financial performance.

Sumit Madan: With that, I will now hand over to Amrit, who will provide an update on our financial performance.

Speaker #2: Thank you so much, and good evening, everyone. Very quickly, some housekeeping numbers. At the MFSL level, the revenue, excluding investment income, grew by 18% to ₹7,289 crore.

Amrit Singh: Thank you, Sumit, and good evening, everyone. Very quickly, some housekeeping numbers. At MFSL level, the revenue, excluding investment income, grew by 18% to INR 7,289 crore, and the consolidated profit after tax at MFSL stood at INR 180 crore. The gross written premium for Axis Max Life has grown by 19% to INR 10,607 crore, in which annual premium has registered a healthy growth of 20% and has touched INR 4,639 crore, which reflects the resilience of our individual. Individual new business sum assured, which is the measure of protection penetration that we are trying to drive within the country, has grown by 22% year-on-year and has touched INR 1,17,000 lakh crore from an Axis Max Life perspective. We continue to hold on to our rank 3 on individual sum business assured in the private sector.

Speaker #2: And the consolidated profit after tax at MFSL stood at 180 crores. Gross written premium for Axis MAX Life has grown by 19% to 7,607 crores.

Speaker #2: In which renewal premium has registered a healthy growth of 20%, and its tax 4,639 crores. This reflects the resilience of our infrastructure. Individual new business sum assured, which is a measure we're trying to drive within the country, has grown by 32% year on year, and has touched 1 lakh and 17,000 lakh crores of common Axis MAX Life percentage.

Speaker #2: We continue to hold on to our rank three on individual sum business assured in the private industry. Our embedded value at the end of the quarter stood at ₹30,415 crore, a growth of 15% year on year.

Amrit Singh: Our embedded value end of the quarter stood at INR 30,415 crore, a growth of 15% year-on-year. The annualized operating ROEV has improved to 14.9% in Q1 FY27. There has been no operating variance during the quarter, and 14.9% compares to 14.3% of the previous year corresponding period. We continue to remain focused on operational efficiency. Policyholder operating expense as a percentage of GWP has improved by 185 basis points year-on-year to touch 16%, driven by focused productivity enhancement initiatives. Despite a healthy business growth, policyholder operating expense increased by only 7% during the quarter. The year has crossed a significant milestone for the company, surpassing INR 2 lakh crore and closed at INR 2 lakh and 3,000 lakh crore at the end of 30 June 2024 quarter, reflecting an 11% increase.

Speaker #2: The analyzed operating ROEV has improved to 14.9% in Q1 FY27. There has been no operating variance during the quarter. And this compares 14.9% compares to 14.3% of the previous year corresponding period.

Speaker #2: We continue to have remain focused on operational efficiency, policyholder operating expense as a percentage of GWP has improved by 185 basis points year on year, to touch 16%.

Speaker #2: Driven by focused productivity enhancement initiatives. Despite healthy business growth, policyholder operating expenses increased by only 7% during the quarter. The AUM has crossed a significant milestone for the company, surpassing ₹2 lakh crore, and closed at ₹2.03 lakh crore at the end of the June 30, 2023 quarter, reflecting an 11% decrease.

Speaker #2: As Sumit mentioned, DNB margin has improved from 20.1% in Q1 FY26 to 23.2% in Q1 FY27, resulting in a growth of 33% in DNB, despite the GST impact.

Amrit Singh: As Sumit mentioned, VNB margins have improved from 20.1% in Q1 FY26 to 23.2% in Q1 FY27, resulting in a growth of 33% in VNB despite the GST impact. As you are aware, on a VNB computation basis, we use the actual expense of the quarter to compute the VNB, and we do have an effect where the VNB improves as operating leverage kicks in during the quarter. This improvement in VNB is driven largely by a higher protection mix and also supported by favorable yield curve movement, which helped offset the GST impact that had come. Approximately outcomes achieved during the quarter reinforce our confidence in sustaining our year-on-year margin profile through FY27. Going forward, we remain focused on delivering VNB growth that outpaces GP growth while maintaining disciplined execution and profitability. With that, we will request the moderator to open the floor.

Speaker #2: As you are aware, on a DNB computation basis, we use the actual expense of the quarter to compute the DNB, and we do have an effect where the DNB improves as operating leverage kicks in during the quarter.

Speaker #2: This improvement in DNB is driven largely by a higher protection mix and also supported by favorable yield curve movement, which helped offset the GST impact that had come.

Speaker #2: Approximately outcomes achieved during the quarter reinforce our confidence in sustaining our annual margin profile through FY27, going forward to remain focused on delivering DNB growth at our basis 80 growth while maintaining discipline execution and profitability.

Speaker #2: And with that, we'll request the moderator to open the questions.

Speaker #3: Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and then one on the touchstone phone.

Operator: Thank you very much. We will now begin with the question and answer session. Anyone who wishes to ask a question may press star and then 1 on their touch-tone phone. If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and then 2. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question. Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Requesting participants to limit their questions to 2 each per participant and rejoin the queue for follow-up questions. Your first question comes from the line of Swarnabh Mukherjee with 360 ONE. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: If you wish to remove yourself from the question queue, you may press star and then two. Participants are requested to use handsets while asking a question.

Speaker #3: Ladies and gentlemen, we will wait for a moment while the question queue assembles. Requesting participants to limit their questions to two each per participant and rejoin the queue for follow-ups questions.

Speaker #3: Your first question comes from the line of Svarnab Mukherji with 361 capital. Please go ahead.

Speaker #2: Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and congrats on a great set of numbers. So my two questions. So first of all, just wanted to understand the margin increase that has happened this has as you mentioned, only on the back of the protection mix improvement or anything else too also call out in that, for example, if you could give some color on what would be the impact residual impact if any of the GST and how we should think about it.

Swarnabh Mukherjee: Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and congrats on a great set of numbers. My 2 questions. First of all, just wanted to understand the margin increase that has happened. This has, as you mentioned, only on the back of the protection mix improvement or anything else to also call out in that? For example, if you could give some color on what would be the residual impact, if any, of the GST and how we should think about it. Also, I wanted to understand that solvency, despite this protection growth has remained flat. If you could explain this, that is the first question. Second is, sir, on overall the structure simplification process, fund raise, et cetera.

[Analyst] (360 ONE Capital): Hi, sir. Thank you for the opportunity and congrats on a great set of numbers. My 2 questions. First of all, just wanted to understand the margin increase that has happened. This has, as you mentioned, only on the back of the protection mix improvement or anything else to also call out in that? For example, if you could give some color on what would be the residual impact, if any, of the GST and how we should think about it. Also, I wanted to understand that solvency, despite this protection growth has remained flat. If you could explain this, that is the first question. Second is, sir, on overall the structure simplification process, fund raise, et cetera.

Speaker #2: And also, I wanted to understand that solvency, despite this protection growth, has remained flat. So how should we look at it? If you could explain this.

Speaker #2: That is the first question. Second is, sir, overall on the structure simplification process, fundraise, etc. Axis Bank had also commented in their call about potentially looking at a stake increase, evaluating that.

Swarnabh Mukherjee: Axis Bank had also commented in their call about looking at a potential staking increase, evaluating that, plus your fund raise plans and structure simplification. How should we think about all these things given the new development? These will be my two questions, sir.

[Analyst] (360 ONE Capital): Axis Bank had also commented in their call about looking at a potential staking increase, evaluating that, plus your fund raise plans and structure simplification. How should we think about all these things given the new development? These will be my two questions, sir.

Speaker #2: And plus, your fundraise plans and structure simplification, how should we think about all these things given the new development? This will be my two questions, sir.

Speaker #1: Okay. So firstly, on the margin profile, as I had said in the remarks that it's to do with the protection enable growth that we have experienced.

Amrit Singh: Well, firstly, on the margin profile, as I said in the remarks, it is to do with the protection-enabled growth that we have experienced and also the yield curve benefits that have come through. In this 3% approximate increase, you can say 30% is linked to mix around protection and some bit of operating leverage. Around 70%, you can say, is the yield curve, which actually has also helped offset the GST impact. As we had mentioned in the previous call, in Q4, we had almost taken care of 80% of the GST effect. That is largely behind us. From a GST perspective, there is not any other effect we just learned about.

Speaker #1: And also, the yield curve benefits that have come through. Now, in this approximately 3% increase, you can say about 30% is linked to mix around protection and some bit of operating leverage.

Speaker #1: And around 70%, you can say, is the yield curve, which actually has also helped offset the GST impact. As we had mentioned, in the previous call, that in Q4, we had almost taken care of 80% of the GST effect.

Speaker #1: Now, that is largely behind us from a GST perspective; there isn't any other effect we just talked about. On the second one, around solvency, you would have, and Sumit mentioned in his opening remarks, that Axis Bank infused around ₹380 crore during the quarter.

Amrit Singh: On the second one around solvency, you would have, and Sumit mentioned in his opening remarks, that Axis Bank infused around INR 380 crores during the quarter, which actually helped us lift the solvency profile of the business. That is why the solvency at the end of June has come at 198. Our solvency is, as you are aware, the regulatory threshold of the solvency is 150. 198% is fairly well above the regulatory minima and also above our internal thresholds that we drive from a risk principle perspective. The enabling approval of QIP at MFSL was taken as an enabling approval and which is valid until May of next year. That was largely to support the growth requirements of the company. At this point in time, we do not see any specific need to. I think solvency position is healthy.

Speaker #1: Which actually helped us lift the solvency profile of the business. And that's why the solvency at the end of June has come at 198.

Speaker #1: Now, our solvency is—as you are aware, the regulatory threshold for solvency is 150%. 198% is fairly well above the regulatory minimum and also above our internal thresholds that we drive from a risk principle perspective.

Speaker #1: The approval for the enabling approval of QIP at MFSL was taken as an enabling approval, and it is valid until May of next year.

Speaker #1: And that was largely to support the growth requirements of the company. As at this point in time, we don't see any specific need. I mean, I think, broadly, the position is healthy.

Amrit Singh: We will keep evaluating and you will accordingly be informed around if there are any issues going forward. With respect to your question around structure simplification, after the Insurance Act amendment, which happened in December, we are grateful for the regulator to have brought in now detailed regulations around how the structure simplification can be undertaken. Obviously, there are technical elements which require an internal consultation and now those with our shareholders, we are in that process. As we had indicated always in the past, we are quite keen in making that happen. I think the good news is that now all parts are paid for this. We will come back to you at appropriate time on our next steps on structure simplification.

Speaker #1: We will keep evaluating and you'll accordingly be informed around what there are any potential plans. With respect to your question around structure simplification, the final after the insurance act amendment which happened in December, we grateful for the regulator to have brought in now detailed regulations around how the structure simplification can be undertaken.

Speaker #1: We are obviously there are technical elements which requires an internal consultation on some of those with our shareholders. We are in that process. As we had indicated, always in the past that we are quite keen in making that happen.

Speaker #1: I think the good news is that now all paths are paved for this. We will come back to you at appropriate time on our next steps on structure simplification.

Amrit Singh: With respect to the Axis comment, I think as Axis indicated, there is an opportunity which the banking regulations threw up, and you will recall that Axis always was keen on taking a stake up to 30%. They are also in their internal process of doing the pros and cons around it and, depending upon how they kind of see, I think both them and us will be identifying the disclosures around this in the future.

Speaker #1: With respect to the Axis comment, I think there's an as Axis indicated, there's an opportunity which the banking regulations threw up. And you will recall that Axis always was keen on taking stake up to 30%.

Speaker #1: They are also in their internal process of doing the pros and cons around it. And depending upon how they kind of see, I think both them and us will make quite a good disclosures around this thing in future.

Swarnabh Mukherjee: Yeah, that is very helpful. Thank you. Just one follow-up. Should we, at this point of time, think the timelines that we had previously indicated in terms of the simplification process would still hold?

[Analyst] (360 ONE Capital): Yeah, that is very helpful. Thank you. Just one follow-up. Should we, at this point of time, think the timelines that we had previously indicated in terms of the simplification process would still hold?

Speaker #3: Yeah. That's very helpful. Thank you. Just one follow-up that any I mean, should we at this point of time think the timelines that what we had we were previously indicated in terms of the simplification process would still hold?

Amrit Singh: Sir, we had always indicated that the moment we file a scheme document, given it is an NCLT process, can take anywhere between six to 12 months. Those timelines hold. I think you should wait for us to indicate after we have done our due consultations internally around a specific period of time.

Speaker #2: Sir, we had always indicated that the moment we file a scheme document—given it's an NCLT process—it can take anywhere between 6 to 12 months.

Speaker #2: Those timelines hold. I think you should wait for us to indicate after we have done our due consultations internally, specifically regarding the timeline.

Swarnabh Mukherjee: All right, sir. Thank you. This is very helpful. Thank you and all the best for FY27.

[Analyst] (360 ONE Capital): All right, sir. Thank you. This is very helpful. Thank you and all the best for FY27.

Speaker #3: All right, sir. Thank you. This is very helpful. Thank you and all the best for FY27.

Operator: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Supratim with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Speaker #3: Your next question comes from the line of Supratheem with Jefferies. Please go ahead.

[Company Representative] (Jefferies): Thanks a lot for the opportunity. My first question is on the cost savings bit. If I look at the OpEx to GWP ratio, that has improved despite the ITC loss. I just wanted to understand that, if you could give us some color here, what is driving this and where are you getting the efficiencies from? Moving to my second question, the offline this quarter. We have been seeing the growth slow down here over the last two quarters, so I just wanted to understand.

Supratim Datta: Thanks a lot for the opportunity. My first question is on the cost savings bit. If I look at the OpEx to GWP ratio, that has improved despite the ITC loss. I just wanted to understand that, if you could give us some color here, what is driving this and where are you getting the efficiencies from? Moving to my second question, the offline this quarter. We have been seeing the growth slow down here over the last two quarters, so I just wanted to understand.

Speaker #2: Hi, sir. Thanks a lot for the opportunity. My first question is on the cost savings bit. So if I look at the OPEX to GWP ratio, that has improved despite the IPC loss.

Speaker #2: Just wanted to understand that if you could give us some color to your what's driving this. And where are you getting the efficiencies from?

Speaker #2: Moving to my second question, on the offline this quarter, we have been seeing the growth slow down here over the last two quarters. So just wanted to understand.

Operator: Supratim, sir, we are losing your audio.

Speaker #3: Supratheem sir, we are losing your audio.

[Company Representative] (Jefferies): Better now? Hello.

Supratim Datta: Better now? Hello.

Speaker #2: Better now? Hello?

Operator: Yes, sir. The audio is getting chipped in between. We are able to hear you clearly but it was getting cut.

Speaker #3: Yes, sir. The audio is betting getting chipped in between. We are able to hear you clearly, but it was getting cut.

[Company Representative] (Jefferies): Yeah. Is this better now?

Supratim Datta: Yeah. Is this better now?

Speaker #2: Yeah. Is this better now?

Operator: Yes, sir. This is much better.

Speaker #3: Yes, sir. This is much better.

[Company Representative] (Jefferies): Sure. I will just repeat my last question. So on the offline proprietary channel, the 9% growth, the growth slowed down last quarter. Is that just

Supratim Datta: Sure. I will just repeat my last question. So on the offline proprietary channel, the 9% growth, the growth slowed down last quarter. Is that just

Speaker #2: Yeah, sure. I'll just repeat my last question. So, on the offline proprietary channel, the 9% growth—the growth slowed down last quarter as well.

Operator: Sorry, sir. Even right now the audio got chipped at the end.

Speaker #3: Sorry, sir. Even right now, the audio got clipped at the end.

[Company Representative] (Jefferies): It is largely related to the offline prop channel performance. If you could give us some color there. On persistency, just wanted to understand what is the deal with the 3-month persistency drop.

Supratim Datta: It is largely related to the offline prop channel performance. If you could give us some color there. On persistency, just wanted to understand what is the deal with the 3-month persistency drop.

Speaker #2: Yeah, it's largely related to the offline crop channel performance. If you could give us some color there. And on persistency, what is the persistency drop?

Amrit Singh: Okay. I think you have asked three questions because we couldn't hear at this side of the line. The first question is you are asking what is driving this improvement in OpEx to GWP. The second question you have asked us, offline proprietary at 9%, anything structural, I guess, is your question there. The third one you have asked us on persistency, if I could capture it, the reason for the drop in book. I think on the first one, we have been on this journey of actually enhancing productivity across our distribution channel. As you would know, in the last few years, we have been investing heavily on distribution channels. Whenever you invest, there is a period of maturity of the distribution channel where the productivity throughput. Some bit of overall productivity enhancement that we have experienced on the distribution side is one element.

Speaker #1: Okay. I think you have asked three questions because we couldn't hear at this side of the line. The first question is you're asking what is driving this improvement in OPEX to GWP.

Speaker #1: The second question you've asked us, offline proprietary at 9%, anything structural? I guess your question there. And the third one you've asked us on persistency, if I could capture it right, the reason for the drop in both.

Speaker #1: I think on the first one, we have been on this journey of actually enhancing productivity across our distribution channel. And as you would know in the last few years, we have investing heavily on distribution channel.

Speaker #1: And whenever you invest, there is a period of maturity of the distribution channel, where the productivity throughput comes in. So, some bit of overall productivity enhancement that we have experienced on the distribution side is one element.

Amrit Singh: On the non-distribution element, I think when GST came in, impacted us. We collectively as a team started taking many cost initiatives and those can range from simple negotiations to travel-related restrictions to being far more careful on advertisement and marketing spend. Those are a mix of reasons why the overall number looks lower. However, I must say that as an organization, we are committed to continuously keep expanding our distribution footprint. Some bit of this will normalize. You should not take this fact that this lower growth of OpEx for the quarter to continue in the subsequent quarters. There will be some normalization, but definitely we are looking forward to improving the gap between sales growth and operating expense by OpEx kind of profile.

Speaker #1: On the non-distribution element, I think when GST came in, impacted us. We collectively, as a team, started taking many cost initiatives. And those can range from simple negotiations to travel-related restrictions to being far more careful on advertisement and marketing spend.

Speaker #1: And those are a mix of reasons why the overall number looks lower. However, I must say that as an organization, we are committed to continuously keep expanding our distribution footprint.

Speaker #1: Some bit of this will normalize. You should not take this fact—that this lower growth of OPEX for the quarter—to continue in the subsequent quarter as well.

Speaker #1: There would be some normalization, but definitely we are looking forward to improving the job between sales growth and operating expense as years keep growing.

Amrit Singh: On offline proprietary, to be very honest, it's a small quarter, and there were certain one-offs related to certain specific very consciously thought through cancellation that we had to undertake, which actually impacted the numbers. Had those cancellations not come through, the offline proprietary growth would have been robust. On persistency, we had explained earlier as well. I think there was a specific variant of a product which actually post its introduction has not panned out to the way that we wanted it to pan out, which started creating certain impact on our persistency numbers. The decision to discontinue that variant was taken in the month of March itself on a very sales-heavy month. Despite it being a sales-heavy month, the decision was taken. Some bit of that pain is what is being felt in the persistency ratio.

Speaker #1: On offline proprietary, to be very honest, I mean, it's a small quarter. And there were certain one-offs related to certain specific, very consciously thought-through cancellations that we had to undertake, which actually impacted the numbers.

Speaker #1: And those cancellations not come through the offline proprietary growth would have been robust. On persistency, persistency we had explained earlier as well. I think there is there was a specific variant of a product which actually posts its introduction has not panned out to the way that we wanted it to pan out, which started creating certain impact on our persistency numbers.

Speaker #1: The decision to discontinue that variant was taken in the month of March itself on a very sales-heavy month despite it being a sales-heavy month.

Speaker #1: The decision was taken. But some bit of that pain is what is being felt in the persistency channel. But beyond the 13th month, you can notice that around the 37th up to the 61st month, there is an improvement in persistency that has come.

Amrit Singh: Beyond the 13 months, you can notice that around 37, after 61st month, there is an improvement in persistency that has happened.

[Company Representative] (Jefferies): That's very helpful. Just one last thing. I did not get the cancellation bit. The cancellation was related to agent licenses being discontinued or policies?

Supratim Datta: That's very helpful. Just one last thing. I did not get the cancellation bit. The cancellation was related to agent licenses being discontinued or policies?

Speaker #2: That's very helpful. Just one last thing. I did not get the cancellation bit. So the cancellation was related to agent licenses being discontinued or policies?

Amrit Singh: There are certain policies that were sourced actually. We didn't feel that those could the quality standards. It was a voluntary decision.

Speaker #1: There are certain policies that were sourced, actually, so we didn't feel that those bits were already done. So, this was a voluntary decision.

Sumit Madan: Because it is a small quarter, some of this kind of comes through in the number. If you remove it, the growth is actually fairly good.

Speaker #1: Because it's a small quarter, some of this kind of comes through in the numbers. If you remove it, growth is actually fairly robust.

[Company Representative] (Jefferies): Understood. No, that is very clear. Thank you.

Supratim Datta: Understood. No, that is very clear. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Understood. No, that's very clear. Thank you.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Shreya Shivani with Nomura. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Shreya Shivani with Nomura. Please go ahead.

Shreya Shivani: Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on a very good quarter. My question is broadly around our distribution strategy, not so much to do with this quarter alone, but how are we thinking about diversifying within our online proprietary, specifically not being dependent on one web aggregator too much, et cetera. My second strategy that I want to ask my question around is, you reached a certain size. So from here on, for your growth to be at a certain level or for you to expand, you will want to move beyond metro and Tier 1 and Tier 2 cities. How are we planning out the distribution strategy for those markets?

Speaker #4: Yeah. Hi. Thank you for the opportunity. Congratulations on a very good quarter. My question is broadly around our distribution strategy—not so much to do with this quarter alone, but how are we thinking about diversifying within our online proprietary, specifically not being dependent on one web aggregator too much, etc.

Speaker #4: And my second strategy that I want to ask my question around is: you have reached a certain size. So, from here on, for your growth to be at a certain level or for you to expand, you will want to move beyond Metro and Tier 1 and Tier 2 cities.

Speaker #4: How are we planning out the distribution strategy for those markets?

Sumit Madan: Thank you for the question. We already are making investments as far as Tier 2, Tier 3 markets are concerned across all our channels. We have seen some very good response coming to our products, to our brand in some of the smaller markets in the country. Those efforts will continue to happen. On the specific diversification on the online prop that you spoke about, devoid of a large aggregator, actually almost 45% of the sales in Q1 was outside this large aggregator. This number was 38% in the last year, Q1, so this number has clearly grown. Other than the large aggregator, we have made some great inroads as all the other aggregators are concerned. One of the channels which you must know we are exceptionally proud of is the entire D2C engine that we have built.

Speaker #2: Thank you for the question. We are already making investments as far as Tier 2 and Tier 3 markets are concerned, across all our channels.

Speaker #2: So we've seen some very good response coming to our products who are brand in some of the smaller markets in the country. So those efforts will continue to happen.

Speaker #2: On the specific diversification on the online prop that you spoke about, devoid of a large aggregator, actually, almost 45% of the sales in Q1 were outside this large aggregator.

Speaker #2: This number was 38% in last year’s quarter one, so this number has clearly grown. Other than the large aggregator, we made some great inroads as far as all the other aggregators are concerned.

Speaker #2: One of the channels which you must note we are exceptionally proud of is the Analjit Singh in that we've built. And that's been giving us some very good traffic.

Sumit Madan: That has been giving us some very good traffic. The profile of customers coming onto that channel again is very good. The quality of business sourced from that channel again is very good. I think on the online proprietary, we are not now dependent only on one large aggregator. It is a number which is well spread across. I also feel we have built up a moat around it. Whichever new aggregator is coming in, their first port of call is to AMLI. That is courtesy all the engines we have been able to build, all the integration that we have done across, which is now helping us improve our penetration and all the new aggregators who are also joining the industry.

Speaker #2: The profile of customers coming onto that channel again is very good. The quality of business source from that channel again is very good. So I think on the online proprietary, we are not now dependent only on one large aggregator.

Speaker #2: It's a number which is well spread across. I also feel we brought up a bit of a moat around it. So whichever new aggregator is coming in, their first port of call is to AMLI.

Speaker #2: That is courtesy of all the engines we've been able to build, all the integration that we've done across, which is now helping us improve our penetration in all the new aggregators who are also joining the industry.

Shreya Shivani: Right. Thank you for that answer. Just to follow up. First, on the Tier 2, 3 markets that you mentioned about you are making an investment that is primarily agents, right? Or is there any other, your new partnerships that you mentioned on the Group Credit Life, are those also a part of those investments? My second follow-up is on the D2C engine. If you can help us understand, I am assuming that the majority of customers this D2C platform is pulling is from the urban markets. Would that be fair to say?

Speaker #4: Right. Thank you for that answer. Just to follow up, so your first on the Tier 2, 3 markets that you mentioned about you're making an investment, that's primarily agents, right?

Speaker #4: Or are there any other new partnerships that you mentioned on the group credit life? Are those also a part of those investments? And my second follow-up is on the D2C engine. If you can help us understand, I'm assuming that the majority of customers this D2C platform is pulling are from the urban markets.

Speaker #4: Would that be fair to say?

Sumit Madan: Surprisingly, no. In fact, if you look at our online sales, it has a very healthy contribution of customers coming in from Tier 2, Tier 3 markets. It also coincides with the first question that you asked with respect to Tier 2, Tier 3, and are these only the agents. Answer is actually across, not only agents, but when you look at the banking channel, when you look at the e-com channel, there is a very healthy mix of customers actually coming from Tier 2 to Tier 3 locations. I think the concept of some of these customers coming only from urban centers, I think across industry, that trend is changing at a very fast pace, and we are no exception.

Speaker #2: Surprisingly, no. In fact, if you look at our online sales, it has a very healthy contribution of customers coming in from Tier 2, Tier 3 markets.

Speaker #2: It also coincides with the first question that you asked with respect to Tier 2, Tier 3, and are these only the agents? Answer is actually across.

Speaker #2: Not only agents, but when you look at the banking channel, when you look at the e-com channel, there is a very healthy mix of customers actually coming from Tier 2, Tier 3 locations.

Speaker #2: So I think the concept of some of these customers coming only from urban centers, I think across industry that trend is changing at a very fast pace, and we are no exception.

Shreya Shivani: Yeah. That's very useful. Thank you so much, and all the best.

Speaker #4: Yeah, that's very useful. Thank you so much and all the best.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Nishant with Kotak. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Nishant with Kotak. Please go ahead.

[Analyst] (Kotak): Thanks for taking my question and congrats for a great set of numbers. On the looks of it is now very clear that any kind of a capital issuance is off the cards right now. But just looking at the current solvency numbers, I was just curious how long can you. I'm sure Axis Bank is having its own discussion in terms of increasing further stake in the company, et cetera. But how long can you really wait or for a couple of months down the line, you might have to still consider alternate capital issuance options. How long can you really wait for this?

Nishant Kumar: Thanks for taking my question and congrats for a great set of numbers. On the looks of it is now very clear that any kind of a capital issuance is off the cards right now. But just looking at the current solvency numbers, I was just curious how long can you. I'm sure Axis Bank is having its own discussion in terms of increasing further stake in the company, et cetera. But how long can you really wait or for a couple of months down the line, you might have to still consider alternate capital issuance options. How long can you really wait for this?

Speaker #2: Thanks for taking my question, and congratulations on a great set of numbers. From the looks of it, it is now very clear that any kind of capital issuance is off the cards right now.

Speaker #2: But just looking at the current solvency numbers, I was just curious how long can you I'm sure Axis Bank is having its own discussion in terms of increasing further stake in the company, etc.

Speaker #2: But how long can you really wait? Or probably a couple of months down the line, you might have to still consider alternate capital issuance options.

Speaker #2: So how long can you really wait for this?

Sumit Madan: Look, I think there's an internal risk threshold that we run. You are also aware that the accounting standard 117 will be in effect now after, there will be a sort of co-variance on the same, will be in effect for us from 1 February 2026. IRDAI is also keen at the same time along with this accounting standard to bring about the IBC framework as well, which has a potential to create buffers and releases from a growth capital perspective that sector can get, given the efficiency of which IBC will bring about. It's important to keep some of these elements in mind as well, how things progress. I think next few months and quarters will give more clarity around timelines around some of those things. From a long-term perspective, I think that's a very important watch-out area for us.

Speaker #1: To look, I think there is an internal risk threshold that we run. And you are also aware that the accounting standard 117 will be in effect now after because we have sought a forbearance on the scene, will be in effect for us on 1st April 2020.

Speaker #1: The regulator is also keen, at the same time along with this accounting standard, to bring about the RBC framework as well, which has the potential to create buffers and releases from a growth capital perspective that the sector can get.

Speaker #1: Given the efficiency of which RBC will bring about. So it's important to keep some of these elements in mind as well, how things kind of progress.

Speaker #1: And I think the next few months and quarters will give more clarity around guidelines for some of those things. So, from a long-term perspective, I think that's a very important watch-out area.

Sumit Madan: But if your specific question is that the 198% that we are sitting at, can we continue running it for how many more quarters before reaching our internal threshold? I think what you should also understand is that along with that equity raise that Axis did in the company, it also provides us additional debt capacity on that money as well. So we will leverage that as well. I think we can stay above the risk threshold for at least two to three quarters quite comfortably as we speak.

Speaker #1: But if your specific question is that the 198% that we are sitting at, can we continue running it for a more how many more quarters before reaching our internal threshold?

Speaker #1: I think what you should also understand is that along with the equity raise that Axis did in the company, it also provides us additional debt capacity on that money as well.

Speaker #1: So we will leverage that as well. And I think we can pay above the risk threshold for at least two to three quarters quite comfortably.

[Analyst] (Kotak): Got it. That is helpful. Just another one was on the profile of your annuity and non-par business. Does the increase in, I am just curious in terms of how the margins would stack up in these two products and does the swing between non-par to annuity, is it in any form margin diluted?

Nishant Kumar: Got it. That is helpful. Just another one was on the profile of your annuity and non-par business. Does the increase in, I am just curious in terms of how the margins would stack up in these two products and does the swing between non-par to annuity, is it in any form margin diluted?

Speaker #2: Got it, that's helpful. And just another one on the profile of your annuity and non-par business: does the increase in—I'm just curious in terms of how the margins would stack up in these two products.

Speaker #2: And does the swing between non-par to annuity, is it in any form margin dilutive?

Speaker #1: It's I mean, giving not giving a specific number around these because we don't disclose margins. But the product segment level. But as a whole, the margin profiles are similar rate.

Amrit Singh: Not giving a specific number around these because we do not disclose margins at the product segment level. But as a whole, the margin profiles are similar-ish, so it is not as if there is a drag getting created of one cannibalizing into another. They are very similar-ish. Obviously, annuity has different flavors and forms, so there will be some of those elements in play. Individual annuity will behave differently than a group annuity, and so on and so forth. But at an aggregate level, the margins are quite comparable.

Speaker #1: So, it's not as if there is a drag being created by one channel bleeding into another. They are very similar-ish. Obviously, annuity has different flavors and forms.

Speaker #1: So there will be some of those elements in play. I mean, individual annuity will behave differently than a group annuity. But at an aggregate level, the margins are quite comparable.

[Analyst] (Kotak): And sir, just one last one is that, can we read that slower growth in proprietary offline kind of also becomes a little margin accretive?

Nishant Kumar: And sir, just one last one is that, can we read that slower growth in proprietary offline kind of also becomes a little margin accretive?

Speaker #2: And sorry, just one last question: can we read that lower growth in proprietary offline also becomes a little margin accretive?

Amrit Singh: I think we have in the past in conversation indicated that the margin profile of our proprietary channel is actually now healthy. It is higher than the margin profile of the company at the margin. In that sense, slower growth does not mean that it will be adding to the margin. That would be an incorrect assumption.

Speaker #1: I think we have in the past in conversation indicated that the margin profile of our proprietary channel is actually now healthy. It is higher than the margin profile of the company.

Speaker #1: And the margin so in that sense, slower growth does not mean that it will be kind of adding to the margin. That could be an incorrect.

[Analyst] (Kotak): Got it. Thank you very much, and all the best.

Nishant Kumar: Got it. Thank you very much, and all the best.

Speaker #2: Got it. Thank you very much and all the best.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Avinash with Emkay. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Avinash with MK. Please go ahead.

[Analyst] (Emkay Global Financial Services): Yeah, thanks. Good evening. Very set of numbers. A couple of questions. The first one on the trend we are seeing so far in terms of the par and non-par. Is it going to kind of continue for the rest of the year or will we see some reversal here? Second, if you can sort of provide some kind of a color or understanding on your variable annuity product. What kind of a risk that stays with you and what kind of a hedging mechanism you are using to hedge those risks? Some bit of a clarity there. Thanks.

[Analyst] (Emkay): Yeah, thanks. Good evening. Very set of numbers. A couple of questions. The first one on the trend we are seeing so far in terms of the par and non-par. Is it going to kind of continue for the rest of the year or will we see some reversal here? Second, if you can sort of provide some kind of a color or understanding on your variable annuity product. What kind of a risk that stays with you and what kind of a hedging mechanism you are using to hedge those risks? Some bit of a clarity there. Thanks.

Speaker #2: Yeah, thanks. Good evening. I'm going to set up numbers. So a couple of questions. The first one on the trend we are seeing so far in terms of the part and non-part.

Speaker #2: Is it going to kind of a continue for the rest of the year or will we see kind of a will we see some reversal here?

Speaker #2: And second, if you can sort of provide some kind of a color or understanding on your variable annuity product. What kind of a risk that stage with you and what kind of a hedging mechanism you are using to hedge those risks?

Speaker #2: I mean, some bit of a clarity there. Thanks.

Amrit Singh: Thanks, Analjit. I think on participating and non-participating from a trend perspective, you should understand that from a product construct, both these product constructs try to solve fairly similar-ish consumer needs as well. I mean, one over another has higher guaranteed component and the other one doesn't have equivalent guaranteed component, even par has a guaranteed component to it incidentally. From a consumer perspective, these are stories and these are what you bring to the market from a freshness perspective, how many launches that you do. So it will be, I think between quarters, et cetera, depending upon what launches we are doing because any new launch always refreshes the distribution machinery. So we will navigate through some of these things. We do hope to get the trend even on the non-par to at least no longer be in such sharp degrowth.

Speaker #1: Thanks, Analjit. I think on participating and non-participating from a trend perspective, you should understand that from a product construct, both these product constructs try to solve fairly similar-ish consumer needs as well.

Speaker #1: I mean, one over another has higher guaranteed component and the other one doesn't have equivalent guaranteed component, even part has a guaranteed component implicit in it.

Speaker #1: So it's from a consumer perspective, these are stories and these are what you bring to the market from a freshness perspective, how many launches that you do.

Speaker #1: So it will be, I think, between quarters, etc., depending. Any new launch always refreshes the distribution machinery. So we will navigate through some of these things. We do hope to get the trends, even on the non-part, to at least no longer be in such sharp degrowth.

Amrit Singh: It should move towards more in the positive and the green as the quarters kind of progress. One reason for that also is the base effect because non-par in the last year same time was higher for us and as the quarters kind of progress that will moderate. But more importantly, I think the segments of choices, protection, annuity is where we continue to remain focused and we are keen that for those trends, the world and we are able to tap onto that opportunity that India presents with respect to those product forms. On your second question was on variable annuity product that we have launched. That product actually has two components.

Speaker #1: It should move towards more in the policy in the green as the quarters kind of progress. One reason for that also is the base effect because non-part in the last year 10 time was higher for us.

Speaker #1: And as the quarters kind of progress, that will moderate. But more importantly, I think the segments of choices protection, annuity, is where we continue to remain focused and we're keen that those trends hold and we are able to tap onto that opportunity that India presents with those products.

Speaker #1: On your second question was on variable annuity product that we have launched. That product actually has two components. It there is an element of fixed return and on top of those fixed return, there's an element of ability of the annuitant to participate in the equity upside in the equity story.

Amrit Singh: There is an element of fixed return and on top of those fixed returns, there's an element of ability of the annuitant to participate in the equity upside in the equity story that the country has to present. Now, on the fixed portion of the return, needless to say, there is a hedging strategy which is in play as it follows in other product. On the variable component of the equity side, it's a bit of a participation behavior that exists. The product obviously has been launched with fair bit of deliberation. So in our assessment, it does not bring on any additional risk onto the company because of this particular feature, because that is participated by the annuitants themselves.

Speaker #1: So the country has to present. Now, on the fixed portion of the return, needless to say, there is a hedging strategy which is in play.

Speaker #1: As it follows in other products. On the variable component of the equity side, it's a bit of a participation behavior which exists. The product obviously has been launched with a fair bit of deliberation.

Speaker #1: So, in our assessment, it does not bring on any additional risk to the company because of this particular feature, as it is participated in by the annuitant themselves.

[Analyst] (Emkay Global Financial Services): Okay, clear. Thank you.

[Analyst] (Emkay): Okay, clear. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Okay. Clear. Thank you.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Prayesh Jain with Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited. Please go ahead.

Speaker #3: Thank you.

Speaker #2: Your next question comes from the line of Prayesh Jain with Motilal Oswal Financial Services Limited. Please go ahead.

Prayesh Jain: Yeah, hi. My first question is on, there has been so much discussion on the commission regulations, right? More of a broader picture, I understand things can really be very different or whatever there is out in the media can be very different from that or in line with that. I just wanted to understand, I think there are two partners which would be key ones for us where things can be different. One is your parent bank, Axis Bank as well as the other big web aggregator that we work with. Now, in case there is a commission cut, how does generally would you expect the behavior of these channels to change or how do you think this could pan out for us in the medium term? That is question number one.

Speaker #4: Yeah. Hi. My first question is, there's been so much discussion on the commission regulations, right? And more of a product, which I understand. Things can really be very different, or whatever there is out in the media, it can be very different from that, or in line with that.

Speaker #4: But just wanted to understand. I think that two partners which would be key ones for us, where things can be different, one is the parent bank, Axis Bank.

Speaker #4: As well as the other big web aggregator that we work with. Now, in case of an in case there is a commission cut how does generally would you expect the behavior of these channels to change or how do you think this could kind of pan out for us in the medium term?

Speaker #4: That's question number one. Second is, Axis has seen some pickup in momentum in the near in the recent quarter as well as so how do you see Axis Bank as a channel growing and especially as earlier a question about tier two, tier three growth, that also can be see some in the Axis Bank playing a meaningful role in that segment of growth.

Prayesh Jain: Second is, Axis has seen some pickup in momentum in the recent quarter as well. How do you see Axis Bank as a channel growing and especially, there was earlier a question about tier 2, tier 3 growth. Also, can we see Axis Bank playing a meaningful role in that segment of growth? Those were my questions, thanks.

Speaker #4: Yeah, those would be my question banks.

Amrit Singh: I think firstly on commission regulation, as the regulator has spoken on multiple forums, they are proposing to bring a draft and they want to follow a consultative process with the entire industry. At a macro level, very frankly, the way we see it is that anything which is good for the consumer is good for the entire ecosystem. We will welcome those regulations and it is a great initiative by the regulators that they will want to follow a very long drawn consultative process here, at least is what we are picking up on the media news articles as well. So rather than getting that specific into what does it mean to one channel over another channel, and each of these channels actually are at different efficiency levels for us.

Speaker #1: I think firstly, on commission regulation, as the regulator has spoken on multiple forums, they are proposing to bring a draft, and they want to follow a consultative process with the entire industry.

Speaker #1: At a macro level, very frankly, anything the way we see it is that anything which is good for the consumer is good for the entire ecosystem.

Speaker #1: And we will welcome those regulations and it is a great initiative by the regulator that they will want to follow a very long-term consultative process here at least is what we are picking up on the media, news articles as well.

Speaker #1: So rather than getting a specific into what does it mean to one channel over another channel, and each of these channels actually are at different efficiency levels for us and also the nature of the relationship that we have with some of these channels are different factors with the promoter of the company.

Amrit Singh: And also the nature of the relationship that we have with some of these channels are different, like with the promoter of the company. Hence, rather than giving you any specific response on an unknown thing of what the specific change is, it is better that we wait for some of these draft regulations that is being spoken of as and when they come. But at a macro level, we will just reiterate that I think whatever is good from a consumer's perspective will always be good for the industry as well and we are a firm believer in that. And we will work and we will navigate through some of these things. This is not the first time such things are just being said. On Axis Bank, I will request Sumedha.

Speaker #1: So hence, rather than giving you any specific response on an unknown thing or what the specific change is, it is better that we wait for some of these draft regulations that are being spoken of as and when they come.

Speaker #1: But at a macro level, we'll just reiterate that I think whatever is good from a consumer's perspective will always be good for the industry as well.

Speaker #1: And we are a firm believer in that. And we'll work and we'll navigate through some of these things. This is not the first time such things have just been saying.

Speaker #1: On Axis Bank, I'll request submission.

Sumit Madan: Yeah, sure. I think on Axis Bank, we have been having some consistently good growth now and this quarter has been no exception. Before I answer your specific question around tier 2, tier 3, also important to highlight and we have discussed this in the previous investor calls as well, that we have kind of fragmented the bank as a whole. We look at Bharat Banking as a separate segment. We look at emerging channel as a separate segment. We look at branch banking as a separate channel. And recently the focus has also come around the asset vertical where we are increasing the retail insurance penetration. All that focus that we have been speaking about on the earlier investor calls also, I think everything is coming together now reasonably and in fact, I would say very well.

Speaker #4: Yeah, sure. I think on Axis Bank, we've been having some consistently good growth now. And this quarter has been no exception. Before I answer your specific question around tier two, tier three, also important to highlight and we've discussed this in the previous investor calls as well that we've kind of fragmented the bank as a whole.

Speaker #4: We look at Bharat Banking as a separate segment. We look at emerging channel as a separate segment. We look at branch banking as a separate channel.

Speaker #4: And recently, the focus has also come around the asset vertical, where we are increasing the retail insurance valuation. All that focus that we've been speaking about on the earlier investor calls also—I think everything is coming together now, reasonably.

Speaker #4: In fact, I would say very well. And that's the reason why you see growth coming from the emerging channels, and the over-dependence on, let's say, a channel like branch banking is practically going down.

Sumit Madan: That is the reason why you see growth coming from the emerging channels and the overdependence on let us say a channel like a branch banking drastically going down. The emerging OA share alone, if you look at in the emerging panel, it has been at almost 75%. If you look at the overall growth as far as Q1 is concerned and we look at affluent channels separately, we look at HNI channels separately, there has been some very healthy growth coming across these channels as well. If you look at Bharat Banking and Axis Bank's presence, if you look at the overall number, 65% of the customers for us at a company level are actually from tier 2, tier 3 markets. So that gives a bit of a fillip to our overall numbers.

Speaker #4: The emerging OA share alone, if you look at in the emerging channel, it's been at almost 75%. If you look at the overall growth as far as quarter one is concerned and we look at affluent channel separately, we look at HNI channel separately, there's been some very healthy growth coming across these channels as well.

Speaker #4: If you look at Bharat Banking and Axis Bank's presence, if you look at the overall numbers, 65% of the customers for us at a company level are actually from tier two and tier three markets.

Speaker #4: So that gives a bit of a Philip to our overall numbers. We have almost around 2,736 Russo branches. Which again have added to the base of growth across Axis Bank.

Sumit Madan: We have almost around 2,736 RSU branches, which again have added to the pace of growth across Axis Bank. Like I mentioned, the Bharat Banking channel at Axis Bank has also been coming very handy with respect to all the growth. The overall reach for Axis Bank alone is almost at some 3,200 cities with some 692 branches. We also have the privilege of partnering with some very specific banks, which have improved our presence in the smaller cities and the hinterland of the country. You have a Capital Small Finance Bank, which is there in the hinterland of Punjab. You have certain other banks down south which are catering to our masses in the tier 2, tier 3 markets, so in those states. So I think overall, we are very conscious of the growth that the country is seeing in some of the smaller markets.

Speaker #4: Like I mentioned, the Bharat Banking channel at Axis Bank has also been coming very handy with respect to all the growth. The overall reach for Axis Bank alone is almost at some 3,200 cities with some 692 branches.

Speaker #4: We also have the privilege of partnering with some very specific banks, which has improved our presence in the smaller cities and the hinterland of the country.

Speaker #4: You have a capital small finance bank which is there in the hinterland of Punjab. You have certain other banks down south which are catering to a masses in the tier two, tier three market.

Speaker #4: So in those states. So I think overall we are very conscious of the growth that the country is seeing in some of those smaller markets.

Sumit Madan: We are well equipped with our presence, with our technology, with our people to extract the maximum pace out of the advantage, out of the opportunity which exists in these markets.

Speaker #4: We are well equipped with our presence, with our technology, with our people to extract the maximum value out of the advantage, out of the opportunity which exists in these markets.

Prayesh Jain: Just one more question. If you could give your guidance on the VNB margins. Last year we gave that guidance and we are pretty much there. How should we think about VNB margins for this full year?

Speaker #3: Thank you.

Speaker #4: I have one question, or one more question. If you could give your guidance on the VNB margins—last year, we believe you gave that guidance and we were pretty much there.

Speaker #4: How should we think about VNB margins for this full year?

Amrit Singh: Well, rather than calling it guidance from an aspirational perspective, we have been saying we will want to make the VNB grow faster than the AP grow and we leave it at that, which actually does mean that there would be a consequent margin improvement. The year has started to a great start. We will keep our focus on that. We do intend to grow VNB at a faster clip than the AP growth.

Speaker #1: I think rather than calling it guidance from an aspirational perspective, we have been saying we will want to make the VNB grow faster than the AP growth.

Speaker #1: And we leave it at that, which actually does mean that there would be a consequent margin improvement. The year has started to a great start.

Speaker #1: So let's keep our focus on that. We do intend to grow VNB at a faster click than the VNB growth.

Prayesh Jain: Thank you so much.

Speaker #4: Thank you so much.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Samant Singh with PhillipCapital. Please go ahead.

Speaker #2: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Samanth Singh with Philip Capital. Please go ahead.

Samant Singh: Hi, thanks for taking my questions and good set of results. Congrats for that. Just on PAR, AP growing by 48% in the quarter. I wanted to understand what is the PPT profile of that growth? The reason is under Regulation 8, first year regular premiums with a PPT of less than 10 years can use 80% of allowable EM versus 17.5% for renewal and close to 5% for similar premiums. Is the PAR push a way of extending your allowable ceiling?

Speaker #3: Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my questions and good set of results. Congrats for that. So just on Bharat AP growing by 48% in the quarter, so wanted to understand what is the PPT profile of that growth.

Speaker #3: The reason is like under regulation 8, first-year regular premiums with the PPT of less than 10 years can use like 80% of allowable versus 17.5% for renewal and close to 5% for single premiums.

Speaker #3: So is the Bharat push a way of expanding your allowable ceiling?

Sumit Madan: Kamar, sorry, can you hear us? Sorry, we are not able to hear you properly. Could you please repeat the question, please, because we were not able to properly comprehend what you were asking.

Sumit Madan: [Samant], sorry, can you hear us? Sorry, we are not able to hear you properly. Could you please repeat the question, please, because we were not able to properly comprehend what you were asking.

Speaker #4: Samanth, sorry, can you hear us? Sorry. We are not able to hear you properly. Could you please repeat the question, please? Because we were not able to properly comprehend what you were asking.

Samant Singh: Okay. Did you hear any part of the Okay, I will start from-

Speaker #3: Okay, so did you hear any part of it? Okay, I'll start from—

Sumit Madan: May I request you to kindly repeat from the very beginning, please, if you don't mind?

Speaker #4: Yeah, may I request you to kindly repeat from the very beginning, please, if you don't mind?

Samant Singh: Sure. Yeah. I'm saying par APE growth was very strong this quarter, 48% year-over-year. I just wanted to understand the PPT premium payment term profile of that growth, because under Regulation 8, if you see the first year regular premiums with a PPT of less than 10 years, it's like that is 80% of allowable AUM versus 17.5% on renewal and 5% on single premium. Is the par push a way of expanding your allowable ceiling? The second component of the same question is, what is your par fund utilization for FY26? If you can provide that number. That is question one. Second question is on the amalgamation. The share entitlement ratio will be stuck on a look-through economics or with reference to MFSL's stated price? Does the resulting cap table change any shareholders' classification or trigger fresh regulatory approvals? Yeah.

Speaker #3: Sure, sure, sure. Yeah. So I'm saying Bharat AP growth was very strong this quarter, whatever 48% YY. So I just wanted to understand the PPT premium payment profile of that growth because in that regulation 8, if you see the first-year regular premiums, which are PPT of less than 10 years, is like carries 80% of allowable Versus 17.5% of renewal and 5% on single premium.

Speaker #3: So is this Bharat push a way of expanding your allowable ceiling? And the second component of the same question is, what was your Bharat fund utilization for FY26?

Speaker #3: If you can provide that number. So that's a question one. Second question is on the amalgamation. So the share entitlement ratio will be struck on a look through economics or with reference to MSSL stated price?

Speaker #3: And does the resulting cap table change any shareholders classification or trigger fresh regulatory approvals? Yeah, so these are two questions.

Samant Singh: So these are two questions.

Sumit Madan: I'm sorry. The last question we couldn't follow, but I think the first question we understood because your voice is very muffled.

Speaker #1: I'm sorry. The last question, we couldn't follow, but I think the first question we understood because your voice is very, very muffled.

Samant Singh: Sorry. Maybe my connection, because even I am not able to hear you back. But anyways, let us continue.

Speaker #3: So maybe the connection because even I'm not able to hear you back. But anyways, let's continue. Yeah.

Sumit Madan: Please answer the first one.

Amrit Singh: Let us answer the first question.

Speaker #4: We'll answer the first one.

Speaker #1: So let us answer the first question. I think as the given R scale, etc., expenses of management limits that can be operate well within those thresholds.

Samant Singh: Yeah.

Amrit Singh: I think as is given our scale, et cetera, expenses or management limits that the regulators, that can be operate well within those ratios. That is not the reason why a specific action is taken around anything around participating products, which this is what I heard you speak. With respect to your question around where is there any specific trend of PPT within the par product? There is nothing like that. It is very secular. It is business as usual from that perspective across channels, depending upon the mix that they are used to. I think that is the kind of growth that we have seen.

Speaker #1: So that is not the reason why a specific action is taken around anything around participating products, which this is what I heard you speak actually.

Speaker #1: With respect to your question around where is there any specific trend of PPT within the Bharat product, there's nothing like that. It's very secular.

Speaker #1: It is the business as usual. From that perspective, across channels, depending upon the mix that they are used to selling. That's the kind of growth that we expect.

Samant Singh: Okay.

Amrit Singh: Other question I couldn't understand.

Speaker #1: Other question I couldn't understand.

Samant Singh: Okay. Let me try for the second question. On the amalgamation of MFSL into AMLI, this is like share entitlement ratio will be stuck on a look-through economics or with reference to MFSL's stated price. Are you able to follow me or probably I should

Speaker #3: Okay. So let me try for the second question. So on the amalgamation of MSL into AMLI, so this is like share entitlement ratio will be struck on a look through economics or with reference to MSSL stated price?

Speaker #3: Are you able to follow me or probably I should yeah.

Amrit Singh: You know, I think it's a little bit premature to when the scheme of arrangement comes through, obviously you'll see the specifics and details around it. But having said, you will appreciate that MFSL is a fairly simple structure from an. It's a very light operation and largely the asset that they hold is in equity into the life insurance company, Axis Max Life. So, the swap ratios et cetera, fairly would be simple and if I may use your word, look-through kind of values. There isn't like a big adjustment that needs to be done.

Speaker #1: You know, I think it's a little bit premature to when the scheme of arrangement comes through, obviously you'll see the specific and details around it.

Speaker #1: But having said, you will appreciate that MFSL is a fairly simple structure from an it's a very light operation and largely the asset that they hold is an equity into life insurance companies access max life.

Speaker #1: So the swap ratios, etc., would be fairly simple and, if I may use your word, 'look-through' kind of values on it. There isn't like a big adjustment that needs to be done.

Samant Singh: Okay. Just a follow-up small thing. The capital requirement through FY28, is it fully covered through the INR 1,600 crore QIP, or it might have been answered earlier, but sorry for that, asking again.

Speaker #3: Okay. And just a follow-up, a small thing. So, the capital requirement through FY28—is it fully covered through the ₹1,600 crore QLP? Or it might have been answered earlier, but sorry for asking again.

Amrit Singh: What we were trying to explain was that firstly it is an enabling approval which goes up to May of next year.

Speaker #1: So what we were trying to explain was that firstly, it's an enabling approval, which goes up to May of next year. And we had while we had taken that approval and the shareholder consent of the same, we had indicated that it is largely to support the growth capital requirements of access max life.

Samant Singh: Yeah.

Amrit Singh: From capital perspective, while we had taken that approval and the shareholder consent of the same, we had indicated that it is largely to support the growth capital requirements of Axis Max Life. What we are also seeing is that the developments that are happening around the new accounting standard adoption by the regulator, also the risk-based solvency framework. There seems to be progress being made quite strongly in both those frontiers. So we would want to see the outcomes of what the final risk-based solvency framework kind of comes to. At a macro level, such a framework does make the insurance company more capital efficient and provides more buffer on growth capital perspective. But it is a little difficult to comment specifically around all those things given that element is not finalized.

Speaker #1: Now, what we are also seeing is that the developments that are happening around the new accounting standard adoption by the regulator, also the risk-based solvency framework, there seems to be progress being made quite strongly on both those counters.

Speaker #1: So we would want to see the outcomes of what the final risk-based solvency framework kind of comes through at a macro level such as a framework does make the insurance company more capital efficient and provides more buffer for growth capital benefits.

Speaker #1: But it's a little difficult to comment specifically around some of those things given that element is not final by now. But I think the regulatory intention is to make more capital efficiency within the sector, thereby providing adequate capital for hosting the growth aspiration.

Amrit Singh: But I think the regulatory intention is to make more capital efficiency within the sector, thereby providing adequate capital for a single group as they grow.

Samant Singh: What is your internal solvency sort of the bank?

Speaker #3: What is your internal solvency, sort of, at the bank?

Amrit Singh: As a methodology, every year depending upon the kind of risk that we have on our balance sheet, we run a certain risk measure scenario. The number hovers anywhere between plus minus 180% representation.

Speaker #1: We use as a methodology, there is a every year depending upon the kind of risk that we have on our balance sheet. We run a certain risk threshold scenario.

Speaker #1: The number hovers anywhere between plus minus 180%, few percentage up.

Samant Singh: Yeah. Thanks for that and all the best. Sorry for the discernment in volume. Yeah.

Speaker #3: Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Thanks for that and all the best. Sorry for the disadvance in driving. Yeah.

Operator: Thank you. Your next question comes from Sanket Godha with Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.

Operator: Thank you. Your next question comes from Sanketh Godha with Avendus Spark. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Thank you. Your next question comes from Sanket Gowda with Avander Spark. Please go ahead.

Sanket Godha: Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity. My question again probably is more on solvency and Axis thing. Is it fair to say that if Axis approval of going from 20% to 30% gets delayed this INR 1,600 crore of QIP, what you have kept it on advance right now, you might do it eventually to support the growth. That's a fair assumption to make?

Speaker #3: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity. So my question again probably is more on solvency and access thing. So is it fair to say that if access approval of going from 20 to 30 gets delayed, this 1600 crores of QIPU, what you are what you have kept it on adherence right now, you might do it eventually to support the growth?

Speaker #3: That's a fair assumption to make.

Amrit Singh: Look, if RBC doesn't come on time, as we had indicated in the past as well, then your assumption is correct. But if there is a development which happens on that framework, maybe the number will go up.

Speaker #1: Look, if RBC doesn't come on time, as we had indicated in the past as well, then our assumption is correct. But if there is a development which happens on that framework, maybe the numbers will get off.

Sanket Godha: Understood. Just one more clarification. This 190 solvency what you have reported in the end of June includes the sub-debt which you are redeeming. If you remove that number, I'm believing that you are raising one more round of sub-debt to compensate for that coupon rate. Then still solvency will be closer to 200 with the additional sub-debt what you will raise?

Speaker #3: Understood. And one more just one more clarification. This 198 solvency what you have reported in the end of the June, includes the subject which you are redeeming.

Speaker #3: So if you remove that number, I'm believing that you are raising one more round of subject to compensate for that coupon rate then still solvency will be closer to 200 with the additional subject what you will raise?

Amrit Singh: Sorry, can you say that again, Sanket Godha?

Speaker #1: Sorry, can you say that again?

Sanket Godha: No. What I was asking is that you are redeeming your sub-debt around 480, 490 crore as per the result. Will you be raising another round of sub-debt? Because what you reported at June end includes that sub-debt. Now given the sub-debt will go away, solvency will naturally fall. Then you are raising another round of sub-debt to boost it up back to 190, 200 level.

Speaker #3: No. It's also what I was asking is that you are redeeming your subject around 480, 490 crores, as per the result. Will you be raising another round of subject?

Speaker #3: Because what you reported at June-end includes that subject. Now, given that subject will go away, your solvency will naturally fall. Then you are raising another round of subject to boost it back up to the 190-200 level?

Amrit Singh: Your observation is correct. We have actually already honored the call on the sub-debt. This was done on 21 July and we will recoup and re-raise both that amount and also the amount that we got from an additional capacity of tax inclusion that happened in the first quarter. Yes, we will be doing a sub-debt raise.

Speaker #1: We are observation is correct. We have actually already honored the call on the subject. This was done on 31st of July. And we will regroup and raise both that amount and also the amount that we got from an additional capacity of taxes infusion that happened in the first quarter.

Speaker #1: Yes, we will be doing a subject raise.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Vinod Rajamani with Nirmal Bang. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Vinod Rajamani with Nirmal Bank. Please go ahead.

Vinod Rajamani: Thank you for taking my question. I had just one question. To an earlier question, you had responded saying that almost 70% of the margin uplift is on account of yields and 30% is on account of the product mix change. Just wanted to know now, if I look at the yield curve of the June curve. The Q2 VNB will be priced off the June curve. That is already almost like 50 bps lower at the long end than the March curve. Should we expect some bit of unwind on account of this yield change in, say, the Q2 margin? That is the only question I have.

[Analyst] (Nirmal Bang): Thank you for taking my question. I had just one question. To an earlier question, you had responded saying that almost 70% of the margin uplift is on account of yields and 30% is on account of the product mix change. Just wanted to know now, if I look at the yield curve of the June curve. The Q2 VNB will be priced off the June curve. That is already almost like 50 bps lower at the long end than the March curve. Should we expect some bit of unwind on account of this yield change in, say, the Q2 margin? That is the only question I have.

Speaker #3: Yeah, so thank you for taking my question. I had just one question. To an earlier question, you had responded saying that almost 70% of the margin uplift is on account of yields, and 30% is on account of the product mix change.

Speaker #3: So, just wanted to know now, in Q—so if I look at the yield curve for the June curve, the Q2 VNB will be priced off the June curve.

Speaker #3: So that's already almost like 50 bits lower at the long end than the March curve. So should we expect some bit of unwind on account of this yield change in, say, the Q2 margin?

Speaker #3: That's the only question I have.

Amrit Singh: Well, dynamic pricing of products depending upon yield curve is a natural process that the life insurance company will follow.

Speaker #1: So look, dynamic pricing of products depending upon the yield curve is a natural process. There's a life insurance company we follow. Your observation is correct.

Vinod Rajamani: Yeah.

[Analyst] (Nirmal Bang): Yeah.

Amrit Singh: Your observation is correct. You are saying that at the end of June the curve has moved, which could take away some, not the entire, but some benefits that were available in Q1 from a yield curve perspective. But it is a par for course for insurance company depending from

Speaker #1: You are saying that at the end of June, the curve has moved, which could take away some, not the entire, but some benefits that were available in the first quarter from a yield curve perspective.

Speaker #1: But it's a par for course for an insurance company depending upon environment, etc. You continue doing repricing. But from the aspiration perspective, we hold steady to some of those things that we expect the VNB growth momentum to be faster than the AP growth momentum as we conclude the year.

Vinod Rajamani: Yeah

[Analyst] (Nirmal Bang): Yeah

Amrit Singh: environment, et cetera, you continue doing repricing. But from the aspiration perspective, we hold steady to some of those things that we expect the VNB growth momentum to be faster than the AP growth momentum as we conclude the year. And we are working towards some of those aspects.

Speaker #1: And we are working towards some of those aspirations.

Vinod Rajamani: Right. But that 70% and 70/30 split, that is correct, that side, right?

[Analyst] (Nirmal Bang): Right. But that 70% and 70/30 split, that is correct, that side, right?

Speaker #3: Right. But that 70% and 70-30 state, that is correct. That's right, right?

Amrit Singh: Yeah, look, there is a reality as the quarter kind of progresses.

Speaker #1: Yeah. There is look, there is a reality of as. Year as the quarter kind of progresses, the operating leverage plays out. And typically, if you have a good healthy start from a mixed perspective, the operating leverage layout is also superior.

Amrit Singh: the operating leverage plays out and typically if you have a good healthy start from a mix perspective, the operating leverage play out is also superior.

Vinod Rajamani: Right.

[Analyst] (Nirmal Bang): Right.

Amrit Singh: I mean, doing that, I think you're trying to do that maths of 70% will go away and consequently there could be pressure. I mean, I will not go in that direction because operating leverage is a quarter also helps us build.

Speaker #1: So, I mean, doing that, I think you're trying to do that, the mass of 70% will go away, and consequently, there could be pressure. I mean, I will not go in that direction because operating leverage of the quarter also helps off the.

Vinod Rajamani: Yeah. Thanks so much. Thank you.

[Analyst] (Nirmal Bang): Yeah. Thanks so much. Thank you.

Speaker #3: Yep. Yeah. Thanks so much. Thank you.

Operator: Thank you. The next question comes from the line of Nidhesh Jain with Investec. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Nitesh Jain with Investech. Please go ahead.

Nidhesh Jain: Thanks for the opportunity. My question is on annuity. What is driving such strong growth in annuity business? Is it driven by the new product launch that we have done? Do you sense a customer behavior change because annuity traditionally has not been large product in India? Is it changing and what is driving that?

Speaker #1: Thanks for the opportunity. My question

Speaker #3: is on annuity. What is driving such strong growth in annuity business? Is it driven by the new product launch that we have done? And is there a do you sense a customer behavior change because annuity traditionally has not been large product in India?

Speaker #3: So, is it changing, and what is driving that?

Amrit Singh: Well, we had a few launches of annuity in Q3 last year and that particular product that we launched came into the base, which was very well accepted across distribution channels given the unique retirement need an annuity product calls for. Some bit of this superlative growth that you are seeing is also coming out of a bit of a low base effect of Q1. Having said, in the current quarter, we have also launched a new variable annuity product which was asked at the start of the call by someone, which will also give us a positive lift. It is a combination of product launches on the annuity space which is actually helping us drive that momentum. Q1, the 120% growth numbers have some bit of a base effect.

Speaker #1: You know, we had a few launches of annuity in Q3 last year. And annuity, that particular product that we launched, came into the base, which was very well accepted across distribution channels.

Speaker #1: Given the unique retirement need and the calls for annuity products, some of the superlative growth you're seeing is also coming from a bit of a low base effect in Q1.

Speaker #1: Having said that, in the current quarter, we have also launched new variable annuity products—some of which were asked about at the start of the call by someone—which will also give us a positive lift.

Speaker #1: So it's a combination of product launches on the annuity space, which is actually helping us drive that momentum. But yeah, I mean, quarter one, the 120% growth numbers have some bit of a base effect.

Operator 2: Any particular channel which is driving this growth?

Nidhesh Jain: Any particular channel which is driving this growth?

Speaker #3: And any particular channel which is driving this growth?

Amrit Singh: No, it is a fairly accepted product. It is across all channels. Axis and agency both obviously are leading the way. There are the specific customer segmentation around the silver segments, as we call it, where annuity is becoming quite popular and I think the team has been able to sell the product well. Also it coincides with our overall growth across all channels including the proprietary business. Important to mention that because strategically all channels remain the key engines of growth. There was a question earlier around proprietary also and important to say that some of the input parameters on proprietary, which is the offline proprietary still remains strong and annuity of course forms a key part of that bucket as well.

Speaker #1: No, it's fairly accepted product.

Speaker #3: Across all channels, access and agency, both obviously are leading the way. There are the specific customer segmentation around the silver segments as we call it, where annuity is becoming quite popular.

Speaker #3: And I think the team has been able to sell the product well. Also, it coincides with our overall growth across all channels, including the proprietary business.

Speaker #3: Important to mention that because strategically, all channels remain the key engines of growth. There was a question earlier around proprietary also and important to say that some of the input parameters on proprietary, which is the offline proprietary, still remain strong.

Speaker #3: And annuity, of course, forms a key part of that bucket as well. If you look at the last 36 months or so, we've had a very consistent growth as far as offline proprietary channels are concerned.

Sumit Madan: If you look at the last 36 months or so, we have had a very consistent growth as far as offline proprietary channels are concerned. We not only look at the output or the final number as far as offline profit is concerned, but we also follow the input vectors very seriously. If you look at the advisor recruitment, we have actually grown on that parameter. Top advisor premium, again, which is a very critical component of the offline proprietary channel, we have seen a growth of 28%. F&S productivity, and Amrit mentioned about some of the initiatives we have taken around AI and tech. Again, we have seen a 7% growth as far as F&S productivity on the offline proprietary channel is concerned. So I think importantly, whenever we launch a new product, Amrit just mentioned about the variable annuity.

Amrit Singh: If you look at the last 36 months or so, we have had a very consistent growth as far as offline proprietary channels are concerned. We not only look at the output or the final number as far as offline profit is concerned, but we also follow the input vectors very seriously. If you look at the advisor recruitment, we have actually grown on that parameter. Top advisor premium, again, which is a very critical component of the offline proprietary channel, we have seen a growth of 28%. F&S productivity, and Amrit mentioned about some of the initiatives we have taken around AI and tech. Again, we have seen a 7% growth as far as F&S productivity on the offline proprietary channel is concerned. So I think importantly, whenever we launch a new product, Amrit just mentioned about the variable annuity.

Speaker #3: And we not only look at the output or the final number as far as offline profits concerned, but we also follow the input vectors very seriously.

Speaker #3: If you look at the advisor recruitment, we've actually grown advisor premium again, which is a very critical component of the offline proprietary channel, and we've seen a growth of 28%.

Speaker #3: FLS productivity, and Amrit mentioned some of the initiatives we've taken around AI and tech. Again, we've seen a 7% growth as far as FLS productivity on the offline proprietary channel is concerned.

Speaker #3: So I think, importantly, whenever we launch a new product—Amrit just mentioned the variable annuity—I think the engine is right now well equipped across all channels, be it Axis, Agency, or Bank, proprietorship as a whole, to be able to capture the most out of it.

Sumit Madan: I think the engine is right now well-equipped across all channels, be it Axis, agency, or banca proprietorship as a whole, to be able to capture the most out of it. Again, in annuity, it looks like a very sustainable, scalable growth for us.

Amrit Singh: I think the engine is right now well-equipped across all channels, be it Axis, agency, or banca proprietorship as a whole, to be able to capture the most out of it. Again, in annuity, it looks like a very sustainable, scalable growth for us.

Speaker #3: And again, an annuity looks like a very sustainable, scalable growth area for us.

Operator: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Rishi Jhunjhunwala with IIFL. Please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Thank you. Your next question comes from the line of Rishi Junjunwala with IIFL. Please go ahead.

Rishi Jhunjhunwala: Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Can you please give some color on how the competition is faring, especially on the banca channels, Axis as well as some of the other larger banca channels. Has the couple of unlisted players become a lot more aggressive in those channels. If that is driven by higher payouts or more lucrative product offerings, then how do you intend to counter that?

Speaker #3: Yeah, thanks for the opportunity. Could you please give some color on how the competition is faring, especially on the banker channels—Axis as well as some of the other larger banker channels?

Speaker #3: Has the couple of unlisted players become a lot more aggressive in those channels? If that is driven by higher payouts or more lucrative product offerings, then how do you intend to counter that?

Sumit Madan: Very difficult to comment on what some of the other players are doing. I can largely talk about some of the strengths that we have and how, I would say in a very consistent manner, we have been at the numero uno position at some of the banks. Our counter share at Axis always hovers around 65% to 70%. In Yes Bank, again, we are the number one player. What gives us all the more confidence is the separate vertical we have called strategic alliances, where we get into new partnerships. Just as a case in point, across the seven last banks that we acquired, and you will appreciate just the acquisition or signing of the agreement with the bank is only a starting point. It is far more difficult to become a dominant player in any of the newer banks.

Amrit Singh: Very difficult to comment on what some of the other players are doing. I can largely talk about some of the strengths that we have and how, I would say in a very consistent manner, we have been at the numero uno position at some of the banks. Our counter share at Axis always hovers around 65% to 70%. In Yes Bank, again, we are the number one player. What gives us all the more confidence is the separate vertical we have called strategic alliances, where we get into new partnerships. Just as a case in point, across the seven last banks that we acquired, and you will appreciate just the acquisition or signing of the agreement with the bank is only a starting point. It is far more difficult to become a dominant player in any of the newer banks.

Speaker #1: I mean, very difficult to comment on what some of the other players are doing. I can largely talk about some of the strengths that we have and how very I would say in a very consistent manner, we've been at the numero uno position at some of the banks.

Speaker #1: Our counter share at Access always hovers around 65 to 70%. In Yes Bank, again, we are the number one player. What gives us all the more confidence is the separate vertical we have called Strategic Alliances, where we get into new partnerships.

Speaker #1: Just as a case in point, across the seven last banks that we acquired, and you will appreciate just the acquisition or signing of the agreement with the bank is only a starting point.

Speaker #1: It's far more difficult to become a dominant player in any of the newer banks. At least from that perspective, Axis Max Life Insurance has done very well.

Sumit Madan: At least from that perspective, Axis Max Life Insurance has done very well. In the last seven banks that we have gotten into a partnership where we have not been the first, second, or the third player, we have in fact been the fourth, fifth, or the sixth player. Across these seven banks, we already have a counter share of 25% plus. Four out of these seven banks, we are actually now the number one player. I think the important point is across all the banks, our story has been very consistent with respect to the growth. In terms of what the competition is doing, the market is always competitive. It keeps us on our toes. It keeps us demanding more out of one another. But I think we are little ahead as far as some of those discussions across people, technology, products are concerned.

Amrit Singh: At least from that perspective, Axis Max Life Insurance has done very well. In the last seven banks that we have gotten into a partnership where we have not been the first, second, or the third player, we have in fact been the fourth, fifth, or the sixth player. Across these seven banks, we already have a counter share of 25% plus. Four out of these seven banks, we are actually now the number one player. I think the important point is across all the banks, our story has been very consistent with respect to the growth. In terms of what the competition is doing, the market is always competitive. It keeps us on our toes. It keeps us demanding more out of one another. But I think we are little ahead as far as some of those discussions across people, technology, products are concerned.

Speaker #1: In the last seven banks that we've gotten into a partnership with, we've not been the first, second, or third player; we've in fact been the fourth, fifth, or sixth player.

Speaker #1: Across these seven banks, we already have a counter share of 25% plus. Four out of these seven banks, we are actually now the number one player.

Speaker #1: So, I think the important point is that across all the banks, our story has been very consistent with respect to growth. In terms of what the competition is doing—I mean, the market is always competitive.

Speaker #1: It keeps us on our toes. It keeps us demanding more out of one another. But I think we are a little ahead as far as some of those discussions across people, technology, products are concerned.

Rishi Jhunjhunwala: Understood. I was just, Sumit, trying to understand if any of the players are becoming increasingly irrational in open architecture banks. That is all. Thank you.

Speaker #3: Understood. I was just, Sumit, trying to understand if any of the players are becoming increasingly irrational in open architecture banks. That's it. Thank you.

Sumit Madan: We like the term irrational. We have heard it a few times. All that we can say is you can count on us as far as the Bharosa is concerned. We will never go that route. It will not be wise or prudent on my part to comment on what some of the other players are doing in the market.

Amrit Singh: We like the term irrational. We have heard it a few times. All that we can say is you can count on us as far as the Bharosa is concerned. We will never go that route. It will not be wise or prudent on my part to comment on what some of the other players are doing in the market.

Speaker #1: We like the term 'irrational.' We've heard it a few times. All that we can say is, you can count on us as far as the Bharosa is concerned.

Speaker #1: We'll never go that route. It would not be wise or prudent on my part to comment on what some of the other players are doing in the market.

Rishi Jhunjhunwala: Got it. Thank you. All the best.

Speaker #3: Got it. Thank you. All the best.

Operator: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Speaker #4: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, that was the last question for today. I now hand the conference over to the management for closing comments.

Sumit Madan: Thank you. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for being on Max Financial's earning call. We look forward to more such interactions in the future. Thank you once again. Goodbye.

Speaker #1: Thank you. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, for being on Max Financial's earning call. We look forward to more such interactions in the future. Thank you once again.

Speaker #1: Goodbye.

Operator: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Max Financial Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you everyone for joining us and you may now disconnect your lines. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, on behalf of Max Financial Services Limited, that concludes this conference. Thank you, everyone, for joining us, and you may now disconnect your lines.

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Q1 2027 Max Financial Services Ltd Earnings Call

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