Q1 2027 Pakka Ltd Earnings Call

August 18, 2026

Speaker #1: And later we may start. So, I'm starting with the recording. Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome to the stakeholders, investors, analysts, and other participants joining us today for Pakka Limited's investor call to discuss the financial and operational performance for the first quarter, ended 30 June 2026.

Operator: Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. A very warm welcome to the shareholders, investors, analysts, and other participants joining us today for Pakka Limited's investor call to discuss the financial and operational performance of Q1, ended 30 June 2023.

Speaker #2: धन्यवाद.

Speaker #1: I'm Of course.

Pranay Pasricha: Good afternoon, everyone.

Pranay Pasricha: Good afternoon, everyone. Sachin, if you can just keep muting everyone so that.

Operator: Sachin.

Pranay Pasricha: Good afternoon, everyone.

Operator: Yes, please.

Speaker #3: Sachin, if you can just keep muting everyone so that—

Pranay Pasricha: Sachin, if you can just keep muting everyone so that.

Speaker #1: Yeah, understand.

Operator: Yeah, understood.

Speaker #3: Yeah.

Speaker #1: Thanks.

Speaker #3: Sorry. Yeah, so my request to everyone would be to be on mute and you will be request you will be requested to unmute when we get to the question and answer session.

Pranay Pasricha: Sorry. Yeah. So, my request to everyone would be to be on mute, and you will be requested to unmute when we get to the question and answer session. First of all, on the behalf of the entire team, I would like to extend a very warm welcome to all our shareholders and stakeholders to the Q1 investor call. Thank you for joining us today. Before we begin, a quick introduction of our leadership team. Ved Krishna, who is the Group Lead. Himanshu Kapoor, who is Non-Independent, Non-Executive Director. Mayank Jindal, Manufacturing Business Head. Shubham Tibrewal, Food Service Business Head. Manoj Maurya, Finance Head. Sachin Srivastava, Company Secretary. My name is Pranay, and I lead the Brand and Marketing at Pakka. I will share the presentation now. All right.

Speaker #3: So first of all, on behalf of the entire team, I'd like to extend a very warm welcome to all our shareholders and stakeholders.

Speaker #3: Welcome to the Q1 investor call, and thank you for joining us today. Before we begin, a quick introduction of our leadership team: Mr. Ved Krishna, who is the Group Lead; Mr. Himanshu Kapoor, Non-Independent, Non-Executive Director; Mr. Mayank Chindral, Manufacturing Business Head; Mr. Shubham Tibbival, Food Service Business Head; Mr. Manoj Morya, Finance Head; and Mr. Sachin Srivastava, Company Secretary.

Speaker #3: My name is Pranay, and I lead the brand and marketing at Pakka. So, I'll share the presentation now. All right, so with that, we'll start the presentation.

Pranay Pasricha: So with that, we will start the presentation, with a brief showcase of our newly launched delivery containers. Something that most of you were waiting for a very long time. With that, I hand over to Ved to showcase the key highlights from the first quarter. Over to you, Ved.

Speaker #3: With a brief showcase of our newly launched delivery containers—something that most of you have been waiting for for a very long time. With that, I hand over to Wade to showcase the key highlights from the first quarter.

Speaker #3: Over to you, Wade.

Speaker #4: Namaskar to everyone. Thank you so much for joining. Let's go ahead, Pranay. We are happy to report that we have now clocked the highest-ever quarterly revenue.

Ved Krishna: Namaskar to everyone. Thank you so much for joining. Let us go ahead, Pranay. We are happy to report that we have now clocked the highest ever quarterly revenue. We are continuing to work towards beating this and also generating more and more bottom line and profitability as we go along. The funding has been completed for Project Jagriti, and Project Jagriti is back on track, and we are ensuring that we will try and commission the machine within the next couple of months. So more or less in the next quarter. There has been significant movement, and Shubham will talk you through the food services side. We have built a very strong outsourcing model now.

Speaker #4: We are continuing to work towards beating this and also generating more and more bottom line and profitability as we go along. The funding has been completed for Project Jagriti, and Project Jagriti is back on track. We are ensuring that we will try and commission the machine within the next couple of months.

Speaker #4: So, more or less, in the next quarter. There has been significant movement, and Shubham will talk you through the food services side. We have built a very, very strong outsourcing model now.

Speaker #4: We have about five or six partners who have started producing for us, and we are slowly trying to move more and more into the outsourcing domain. That will also result in better profitability numbers, apart from the top-line growth.

Ved Krishna: We have about five or six partners who have started producing for us, and we are slowly trying to move more and more into the outsourcing domain, and that will also result in better profitability numbers apart from the top-line growth. As you saw when Pranay started, we have officially done a lot of trials with customers now. Now we are ordering the first facility, which needs a certain kind of coating system, et cetera, and that should be in place by the time we meet next. On the Flexi side, again, pilot trials for the base paper that would be produced on PM4 are underway. Within the next two months, the pilot trials will be completed and then, of course, we start with the soft launch.

Speaker #4: As you saw when Pranay started, we have officially done a lot of trials with customers now, and now we are ordering the first facility, which needs a certain kind of quoting system, etc., and that should be in place by the time we meet next.

Speaker #4: And on the flexi side, again, pilot trials for the base paper that would be produced on PM4 are underway. Within the next two months, the pilot trials will be completed and then, of course, we start with the soft launch.

Speaker #3: Over to Mayank Sir to take us through the financial performance.

Pranay Pasricha: Over to Mayank, sir, to take us through the financial performance.

Speaker #1: Good afternoon, everyone. As Wade also said, the last quarter has been really good for us, and we have surpassed many of the records in this quarter.

Mayank Jindal: Yeah. Good afternoon, everyone. As Ved also said that last quarter has been really good for us, and we have surpassed many of the records in this quarter. If you see on the revenues, we were 42% up with respect to the Q1 of the last financial year and 14% up on the revenue from the last quarter. Similarly on the EBITDA also, we were 31% and 36% respectively with respect to the last year and the last quarter. PBT also, there is a good jump, and it is 34% and 59% respectively for the same period. Coming to the Wrap & Carry, particularly, so revenue was INR 101 crore, which is 43% higher than the revenue the same quarter the last year and 15% higher than the last quarter.

Speaker #1: So, if you see on the revenues, we were 42% up with respect to Q1 of the last financial year, and 14% up on revenue from the last quarter.

Speaker #1: And similarly, on the EBITDA also, we were at 31% and 36% respectively, with respect to last year and the last quarter. And PBT also—there's a good jump—and it is 34% and 59% respectively for the same periods.

Speaker #1: And coming to the rapid carry, particularly to revenue was 101 CR, which is 43% higher than the revenue the same quarter the last year, and 15% higher than the last quarter, and on the PBT side, we were 45% up on the same period last year, and 16% was lower because of the some funds some costs were paid in this particular quarter to the bankers.

Mayank Jindal: On the PBT side, we were 45% up on the same period last year, and 16% it was lower because of some costs were paid in this particular quarter to the bankers. That is the reason only the PBT has gone down. Otherwise, we have done much better. When we see on the challenges side, we really go ahead on this. So right now, for us, the challenge is on the PM4 startup that we are expecting now by end of October or November. The machine will start, and the product adaptability, that whatever the product that we make on the PM4, that how it will sell into the market. The Middle East crisis, which is still going on and which is making some dent on our exports.

Speaker #1: And that's the reason only the PBT has gone down. Otherwise, we have done much better. And if we see on the challenges side, we really go ahead on this.

Speaker #1: So right now, the—okay, for us, the challenge is on the PM4 startup that we are expecting now by the end of October or November.

Speaker #1: The machine will start, and the product adoptability that whatever the product that we make on the PM4, that how it will sell into the market, and the middle east crisis which is still going on and which is making some dent on our exports.

Speaker #1: And of course, the last but not the least, the high cost of the finance for the project Jagriti which we have taken. And but looking forward that how we will overcome on these challenges, PM4 startup.

Mayank Jindal: Of course, the last but not the least, the high cost of the finance for Project Jagriti, which we have taken. But looking forward that how we will overcome on these challenges, PM4 startup. So the good thing is now we are already in the very final stage and more than 85% of the erection work is already completed, so machine is already in shape. You will see in the subsequent slide the live progress. It will give more confidence to you. So that we are very much confident that we will be able to really start this machine by end of October and then release the paper in November. Our boiler and recovery boiler, which is also part of Project Jagriti, this is already in the very final stage.

Speaker #1: So, the good thing is now we are all already in the very final stage, and more than 85% of the erection work is already completed.

Speaker #1: So, the machine is already in shape. You will see in the subsequent slides the live photographs. It will give you more confidence. So, we are very, very confident that we'll be able to really start this machine by the end of October and then read the paper in November.

Speaker #1: And our boiler and recovery boiler, which is also part of Project Jagriti, is already in the very final stage. The extreme trials have already been conducted.

Speaker #1: And now we are expecting the startup by the end of August or in the first week of September. That is what the targeted dates are.

Mayank Jindal: The steam trials we have already taken, and now we are expecting the startup by end of August or in the first week of September. That is when the targeted dates are. Regarding the PM4 particularly, as Basar also said, that we are already planning a lab as well as a pilot trial in Europe, and we are hopeful that we will get the real samples from the pilot trials for the sharing with the customers as well within September. Then we can make a real soft launch of our product. Okay. This is the update from our paper machine. Building is ready. You can see that most of the equipment is already on position now. This is regarding the boiler. So that was the real machine stage. The entire building is almost complete now, except the finishing house.

Speaker #1: And regarding the PM4 particularly, so as based sir also said, that we are already planning a lab as well as a pilot trial in Europe and we are hopeful that we'll get the real samples from the from the trials for the sharing with the customers as well.

Speaker #1: Within September, we can make a real soft launch of our product. And okay, this is a picture of our paper machine building. It's ready.

Speaker #1: You can see that most of the equipment is already in position now. This is regarding the boiler. So that was the real machine.

Speaker #1: So, the entire building is almost complete now, except for the finishing house. That work is still going on, but most of the equipment is already in place.

Mayank Jindal: That will, still going on, but most of the equipment are already on place. So that gives us a real good confidence that we will be able to roll out this machine by end of October.

Speaker #1: So that gives us really good confidence that we'll be able to roll on this machine by the end of October.

Speaker #2: Thank you sir Over to you , Shubham , for the food service business performance Good afternoon everyone . I will walk you through the Q1 performance for the food Services Division In terms of revenue , we have achieved 18.5 crores in Q1 .

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you, sir. Over to you, Shubham, for the food service business performance.

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: Good afternoon, everyone. I will walk you through the Q1 performance for the food services division. In terms of revenue, we have achieved INR 18.5 crores in Q1. This is significantly higher by 34% in comparison to what we had achieved in the same quarter last year, and 9% higher than the Q4 of the last financial year. Of course, please bear in mind that the first quarter for food services is generally a very intrinsically low season because it is the summer, and it is probably the worst quarter we have in the year because of the seasonality. In terms of PBT, we recorded a loss of INR 1.6 crores in the same quarter. This loss is slightly higher than what we had last year due to some structural changes which we are making in our manufacturing.

Shubham Tibrewal: Good afternoon, everyone. I will walk you through the Q1 performance for the food services division. In terms of revenue, we have achieved INR 18.5 crores in Q1. This is significantly higher by 34% in comparison to what we had achieved in the same quarter last year, and 9% higher than the Q4 of the last financial year. Of course, please bear in mind that the first quarter for food services is generally a very intrinsically low season because it is the summer, and it is probably the worst quarter we have in the year because of the seasonality. In terms of PBT, we recorded a loss of INR 1.6 crores in the same quarter. This loss is slightly higher than what we had last year due to some structural changes which we are making in our manufacturing.

Speaker #2: This is significantly higher by 34% or in comparison to what we had achieved in the same quarter last year , and 9% higher than the Q4 of the last financial year .

Speaker #2: Of course, please bear in mind that the first quarter for food services is generally a very intrinsically low season, because it's the summer, and it's probably the worst quarter we have in the year because of the seasonality in terms of PBT.

Speaker #2: We recorded a loss of ₹1.6 crores in the same quarter. Now, this loss is slightly higher than what we had last year due to some structural changes which we are making in our manufacturing.

Speaker #2: But going forward , we are looking at bringing these losses down to zero and making food services a profitable division . Of course , when you compare it to the last quarter , we had already covered this the last time , but there were a a couple of one off items and impacts which were booked Looking a bit deeper into Q1 .

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: But going forward, we are looking at bringing these losses down to zero and making food services a profitable division. Of course, when you compare it to the last quarter, we had already covered this the last time, but there were a couple of one-off items and impacts which were booked. So looking a bit deeper into Q1, the revenue has grown 34%, so from INR 13.7 crores to INR 18.4 crores. This is, of course, our strongest start to the year yet. And we are quite confident that this level of growth will continue for the rest of the year. This growth is primarily driven by the B2B side, which grew 46% in Q1 from INR 11.4 crores to INR 16.5, and it is what has driven the growth in this quarter. We also continue to work on the B2C or retail side.

Shubham Tibrewal: But going forward, we are looking at bringing these losses down to zero and making food services a profitable division. Of course, when you compare it to the last quarter, we had already covered this the last time, but there were a couple of one-off items and impacts which were booked. So looking a bit deeper into Q1, the revenue has grown 34%, so from INR 13.7 crores to INR 18.4 crores. This is, of course, our strongest start to the year yet. And we are quite confident that this level of growth will continue for the rest of the year. This growth is primarily driven by the B2B side, which grew 46% in Q1 from INR 11.4 crores to INR 16.5, and it is what has driven the growth in this quarter. We also continue to work on the B2C or retail side.

Speaker #2: The revenue has grown 34% . So from 13.7 crores to 18.4 crore , 18.4 crores . This is of course our strongest start to the year yet , and we are quite confident that this level of growth will continue for the rest of the year This growth is primarily driven by the B2B side , which grew 46% in Q1 from 11.4 crores to 16.5 , and it has what has it is what has driven the growth in this quarter We also continue to work on the B2C or retail side .

Speaker #2: So we were previously present only on three platforms , which we have now increased to 12 . Our goal for the year is , of course to be present on every major quick commerce , e-commerce and big box retailer in India .

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: We were previously present only on three platforms, which we have now increased to 12. Our goal for the year is, of course, to be present on every major quick commerce, e-commerce, and big box retailer in India, and we are gradually working towards that goal. Although we have onboarded 12 channels, it takes time for the revenue to get to the optimum level because inventory needs to reach all the locations. We are very confident that the B2C business will grow faster than the B2C business in the remaining quarters of the year. Our goal, of course, for the year is to reduce our losses and get to breakeven, which we are again very confident because as we grow our revenue, our costs will not grow in line, so the gross margin gets directly translated into PBT for us.

Shubham Tibrewal: We were previously present only on three platforms, which we have now increased to 12. Our goal for the year is, of course, to be present on every major quick commerce, e-commerce, and big box retailer in India, and we are gradually working towards that goal. Although we have onboarded 12 channels, it takes time for the revenue to get to the optimum level because inventory needs to reach all the locations. We are very confident that the B2C business will grow faster than the B2C business in the remaining quarters of the year. Our goal, of course, for the year is to reduce our losses and get to breakeven, which we are again very confident because as we grow our revenue, our costs will not grow in line, so the gross margin gets directly translated into PBT for us.

Speaker #2: And we are gradually working towards that goal. Although we have onboarded 12 channels, it takes time for the revenue to get to the optimum level because inventory needs to reach all the locations.

Speaker #2: But we are very , very confident that the B2C business will grow . Faster than the B2B business in the remaining quarters of the year Our goal , of course , for the year is to reduce our losses and get to breakeven , which were again , very confident because as we grow our revenue , our costs will not grow in line .

Speaker #2: So the gross margin gets directly translated into PBT for us. Again, like we said, the confidence for this growth, and the continued growth, comes from the fact that we are making structural changes.

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: Again, like we said, the confidence for this growth and the continued growth comes from the fact that we are making structural changes, and a lot of work has gone in at the ground level. On the B2B front, we have made Chuk available in 22 new cities and added 34 new key customers in Q1. We have significantly deepened our distributor and reseller network pan-India, and that is what has actually contributed to the growth of the B2B segment. This growth will be amplified during the next two quarters, which are the festive season quarters for us. The B2C side is also scaling. It has grown three times compared to the last year, and of course, with the new changes that we have added, it is only going to grow exponentially.

Shubham Tibrewal: Again, like we said, the confidence for this growth and the continued growth comes from the fact that we are making structural changes, and a lot of work has gone in at the ground level. On the B2B front, we have made Chuk available in 22 new cities and added 34 new key customers in Q1. We have significantly deepened our distributor and reseller network pan-India, and that is what has actually contributed to the growth of the B2B segment. This growth will be amplified during the next two quarters, which are the festive season quarters for us. The B2C side is also scaling. It has grown three times compared to the last year, and of course, with the new changes that we have added, it is only going to grow exponentially.

Speaker #2: And a lot of work has gone in at the ground level on the B2B front. We have become available in 22 new cities and added 34 new key customers in Q1.

Speaker #2: We have significantly deepened our distributor and reseller network in India, and that is what has actually contributed to the growth of the B2B segment.

Speaker #2: And this growth will be amplified during the next two quarters, which are the festive season quarters for us. So, B2C side is also scaling.

Speaker #2: It's grown three times compared to the last year . And of course , with the new chains that we've added , it is only going to grow exponentially .

Speaker #2: We are now live across every single major quick and e-com platform, and the new platforms are going to be a primary growth factor in the coming months. Another area which we are working on quite aggressively is to optimize our COGS to do the same.

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: We are now live across every single major quick com and e-com platform, and the new platforms are going to be our primary growth factors in the coming months. Another area which we are working on quite aggressively is to optimize our COGS. To do the same, we have pursued an asset-light growth model because to sustain the demand, we have started working on an outsourcing model where our capital investment remains limited and the gross margin is therefore much higher on the new production that we will be making at these outsourced sites. We continue to develop new products and explore new technologies to bring new solutions and unique solutions to the market to solve the challenges faced by our customers. One of them is, of course, our delivery range. It is now developed.

Shubham Tibrewal: We are now live across every single major quick com and e-com platform, and the new platforms are going to be our primary growth factors in the coming months. Another area which we are working on quite aggressively is to optimize our COGS. To do the same, we have pursued an asset-light growth model because to sustain the demand, we have started working on an outsourcing model where our capital investment remains limited and the gross margin is therefore much higher on the new production that we will be making at these outsourced sites. We continue to develop new products and explore new technologies to bring new solutions and unique solutions to the market to solve the challenges faced by our customers. One of them is, of course, our delivery range. It is now developed.

Speaker #2: We have pursued an asset light growth model because to sustain the demand , we have started working on an outsourcing model where our capital investment remains limited and the gross margin is therefore high , much higher on the new production that we will be making at these outsource sites We continue to develop new products and explore new technologies to bring new solutions and unique solutions to the market to solve the challenges faced by our customers .

Speaker #2: One of them is , of course , our delivery range . It is now developed . We continue to work on it to further optimize the costs , and we are currently in process of doing a large scale trials with marquee customers Thank you so much

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: We continue to work on it to further optimize the costs, and we are currently in process of doing large-scale trials with marquee customers. Thank you so much.

Shubham Tibrewal: We continue to work on it to further optimize the costs, and we are currently in process of doing large-scale trials with marquee customers. Thank you so much.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Shubham, over to you to illustrate the product development plan. Go ahead. So, the big one we are focused on is the flexi base.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you, Shubham. Over to Peet to illustrate the product development plan.

Ved Krishna: Go ahead. The big one we are focused on is the FlexiBase, and you see a sample look and feel of how it will look as we go ahead. We have a few products in our hands. Basically, what it looks like is a translucent sheet of paper with much higher strength to be able to retain what is inside. Lab trials are being completed right now in Europe. The pilot trials are slated for early September, that Mayank also spoke about. We are going to take those products and do soft launches for the distributors in October. Then, of course, as the machine starts producing at commercial scale, we start doing a commercial launch, hopefully, by November, and then stabilization by next January. Also, I've been asked time and again what the initial applications are.

Speaker #3: And you see a sample look and feel of how it will look as we go ahead. We have a few products in our hands.

Speaker #3: So basically, what it looks like is a translucent sheet of paper with much higher strength to be able to retain what is inside.

Speaker #3: So lab trials are being completed right now in Europe. The pilot trials are slated for early September. That may also be spoken about then.

Speaker #3: We are going to take those products and do soft launches for the distributors in October . And then of course , as the machine starts producing at commercial scale , we start doing a commercial launch , hopefully by November , and then stabilization by next January .

Speaker #3: Also , I've been asked time and again what the initial applications are . We are very clear that basically we remain focused on food packaging , but within that , there are some segments such as medical packaging , which we are also exploring with various customers and things like seed packaging , which we are also exploring , which is a little bit beyond food .

Ved Krishna: We are very clear that basically we'll remain focused on food packaging. But within that, there are some segments such as medical packaging, which we are also exploring with various customers, and things like seed packaging, which we are also exploring, which is a little bit beyond food, but similar. But the broad segments that we are looking at is wrapping for confectionary, snack pouches and sweet pouches like you see up above. There are different sachet structures that we are looking at, including tea sachets. Also, we've started looking at various seed packaging, which is also an interesting area. So these are broadly the domains. Release liners, dry food liners, tea pouches, are broadly the domains that the initial products will be looked at, and we'll keep looking at creating better barriers as we move more and more into food packaging segments. Let's go ahead.

Speaker #3: But similar. But the broad segments that we are looking at are wrapping for confectionery, snack pouches, and sweet pouches, like you see up above.

Speaker #3: There are different sachet structures that we are looking at , including tea sachets . Also , we've started looking at various seed packaging , which is also an interesting area .

Speaker #3: So these are broadly the domains . These liners , dry food liners , tea pouches are broadly the domains that the initial products will be will be looked at .

Speaker #3: And we'll keep looking at creating better barriers as we move more and more into food packaging segments. Let's go ahead.

Speaker #1: So the other .

Speaker #3: A big decision that we have taken in the last quarter is to move our material science facility from Bangalore to Iothia, just so that we are investing much deeper into this part of the business, because innovation is very much core to Pakka's future growth. And we are building our innovation center, or the Material Sciences Center, now in Iothia.

Ved Krishna: The other big decision that we have taken in the last quarter is to move our material science facility from Bangalore to Ayodhya, just so that we are investing much deeper into this part of the business, because innovation is very much core to Pakka's future growth. We are building our innovation center or the material sciences center now in Ayodhya. By the time, hopefully, you come to visit the site, you will also have a material science center to explore. That will, of course, be as soon as the machine starts. The broad focus areas for the material science center are the research includes the base materials, biotech Conversion systems, biodegradation, and valorization of our substrates. In the applications, you guys are fully aware of wrap, carry, flexibles food services, which we'll keep growing, and we'll add on rigids.

Speaker #3: By the time, hopefully, you come to visit the site, you will also have a material science center to explore. And that will, of course, be as soon as the machine starts.

Speaker #3: The broad focus areas for the material Science Center are the research includes the base materials , biotech , conversion systems , bio degradation and valorization of our substrates in the applications .

Speaker #3: You guys are fully aware of . Gary Flexibles food Services , which we will keep growing and we'll add on rigid . There are numerous ideas that we are working on in terms of collaborations , in terms of incubation , acceleration .

Ved Krishna: There's numerous ideas that we are working on in terms of collaborations, in terms of incubation, acceleration. We already have a lot of global R&D tie-ups, working a lot more with global customers and converters. We are also, of course, adapting a lot of technology, and that includes large language model building for speeding up our research, cross-pollination of ideas, utilizing biomimicry or learning from nature and the packaging there, looking at fermentation, microbial multiplication. Also, having our own design lab is something that will be within the material science center. Of course, the idea is to attract the best talent in the world. It is a task that we feel will be very, very energizing for the organization.

Speaker #3: We already have a lot of global R&D tie ups working a lot more with global customers and converters . We are also , of course , adapting a lot of technology , and that includes large language model building for speeding up our research , cross-pollination of ideas , utilizing biomimicry or learning from nature and the packaging they're looking at fermentation , microbial multiplication , also having our own design lab is something that will be within the Material Science center .

Speaker #3: And of course, the idea is to attract the best talent in the world. It is a task that we feel will be very, very energizing for the organization.

Speaker #3: We are already building global university tie-ups, creating an infrastructure which is second to none, ensuring that there are internships available in our facilities, and building a strong leadership.

Ved Krishna: We are already building global university tie-ups, creating an infrastructure which is second to none, and ensuring that there are numerous internships available in our facilities and building a strong leadership. I think by the time we meet next, you'll start meeting a lot more from the innovation team, as we used to in the past. Go ahead, Pranay. So what are our commitments for this quarter? Project Jagriti, we plan to commission the recovery and power plant, and PM4 will get very ready for plant trials. As Mayank said, late October, early November is when we start plant trials, and we'll build upwards from there for commercial trials. Like Shubham and I talked about, the delivery setup is being done for initial launch.

Speaker #3: I think by the time we meet next , you'll start meeting a lot of lot more from the innovation team . As we used to in the past .

Speaker #3: Go ahead. So, what are our commitments for this quarter? Jagriti, we plan to commission the recovery and power plant, and PM4 will get very ready for plant trials.

Speaker #3: As Mayank said, late October or early November is when we start plant trials, and we'll build upwards from there for commercials. In trials, like Shubham and I talked about, the delivery setup is being done for the initial launch, and by the time we meet next, we should be in good shape there and starting to supply to some key customers.

Ved Krishna: By the time we meet next, we should be in good shape there and starting to supply to some marquee customers who we've been doing trials with. Innovations, like I mentioned in my last slide, we are building our material science center in Ayodhya, and we hope to showcase it to you when you visit the plant next. The FlexiBase pilot trials are being completed by next month, and the soft launch would have happened by the time we meet next. Of course, building on profitability, we'll continue to build our top line as well as bottom line, and you'll see significant changes as we move forward. Okay, back to you, Pranay.

Speaker #3: We've been doing trials with innovations like I mentioned in my last slide. We are building our Material Science Center, and we hope to showcase it to you when you visit the plant next. The Flexi Pilot Trials and Flexi Base Pilot Trials are being completed by next month, and the soft launch would have happened by the time we meet next. And of course, building on profitability, we'll continue to build our top line as well as our bottom line.

Speaker #3: And you'll see significant changes as we move forward. Okay, back to you, Pranay.

Speaker #2: Thank you, thank you. With that, we'll move to the questions.

Speaker #3: And answer round. So, some...

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you. Thank you, Ved. We'll move to the question and answer round. So some ground rules, so that everyone gets a fair participation. You can press the hand raise button, and then I will call out sequentially, in terms of who has raised their hands first. You can unmute and ask a maximum of 2 questions, so that everyone gets a chance to ask their questions. We will also be answering questions on chat. So, you can message over chat, and we'll be answering it there as well. Let me start. A lot of you have already raised your hands. Mr. Costa, you can unmute and ask your question. Mr. Costa?

Speaker #2: Ground rules so that everyone gets a fair participation: you can press the hand raise button, and then I will call out sequentially in terms of in-venue and in terms of who has raised their hand first.

Speaker #2: And you can unmute and ask a maximum of two questions, so that everyone gets a chance to ask their questions. We will also be answering questions on chat.

Speaker #2: So you can message over chat , and we'll be answering it there as well . So let me start . A lot of you have already raised your hands , Mr. Kostov .

Speaker #2: You can unmute and ask your question.

Speaker #3: Hi, can you hear me?

Speaker #2: Yes, yes, we can hear.

Speaker #3: You now . Okay . Yeah . So I wanted to understand on the pledge , on the pledge details first , where could you share what's the current pledge ?

[Analyst]: Hi, can you hear me?

[Analyst 1]: Hi, can you hear me?

Pranay Pasricha: Yes. Yes, we can hear you now.

Ved Krishna: Yes.

Pranay Pasricha: Please go ahead.

[Analyst]: Perfect.

[Analyst 1]: Perfect.

Pranay Pasricha: Please go ahead.

[Analyst]: Yeah. Wanted to understand on the pledge details first. Ved, could you share what is the current pledge? If you could just explain as to exactly the contours of the pledge details, who is it pledged to, when do you plan to? What is the process to get this back down? Risks associated with it, what could go wrong? That is the first part. The second part is on this container trucks product range. You had a success recently. Could you describe the market opportunity for that?

[Analyst 1]: Yeah. Wanted to understand on the pledge details first. Ved, could you share what is the current pledge? If you could just explain as to exactly the contours of the pledge details, who is it pledged to, when do you plan to? What is the process to get this back down? Risks associated with it, what could go wrong? That is the first part. The second part is on this container trucks product range. You had a success recently. Could you describe the market opportunity for that?

Speaker #3: If you could just explain as to exactly , you know , the contours of the pledge details . Who is pledged to when do you plan to what is the process to get this back down ?

Speaker #3: Risks associated with it ? What could go wrong ? That's the first part . And the second part is on this container trucks product range , you had a success recently .

Speaker #3: Could you describe the market opportunity for that? Absolutely. Thank you for your questions. So, so...

Speaker #1: Of course .

Speaker #3: Like we discussed last time , there has been a significant shift in terms of our borrowing structure where in order to make sure that the PM for project goes ahead , the project we've switched from bankers to an AIF called Neo Asset Management , and part of that deal is that we are going to pledge our shares .

Ved Krishna: Absolutely. Thank you for your question. So, of course, like we discussed last time, there has been a significant shift in terms of our borrowing structure, wherein in order to make sure that the PM4 project goes ahead, Project Jagriti, we have switched from bankers to an AIF called Neo Asset Management. Part of that deal is that we are going to pledge our shares, the promoters' holding. Of course, this is more a short-term, kind of high cost deal, where we are expecting to go back to the banks within the next year and a half. At that time, we will unpledge the shares again. So it is part of the security that Neo has asked from us. It is all against the loan that they have provided.

Speaker #3: The promoter's holding . And of course , this is more a short term kind of high cost deal where we are expecting to kind of go back to the banks within the next year , year and a half .

Speaker #3: And at that time, we will pledge the shares again. So it's part of the security that NEO has asked from us.

Speaker #3: It is all against the loan that they have provided . They have also shown a lot of a lot of confidence in the company by investing 30 crores of their own money in the equity , on the side , I have , , also raised my stake In two parts to about 4,849% , which will also give more confidence to the investors .

Ved Krishna: They have also shown a lot of confidence in the company by investing INR 30 crores of their own money on the equity side. I have, of course, also raised my stake in two parts to about 48%, 49%, which will also give more confidence to the investors. That is broadly the pledge. That should go away as soon as we retire Neo and bring back the bankers, which should happen after the machine is stabilized, the production has happened, and the overall financial system is working way better after the project has been commissioned. In terms of the containers, this is something that has been on the drawing board for a while. Again, we have been discussing this with the investors.

Speaker #3: So that's broadly the pledge. It should go away as soon as we retire Neo and bring back the bankers, which should happen after the machine is stabilized.

Speaker #3: The production has happened and the the overall financial system is working way better after the project has been commissioned . In terms of the containers , this is a this is something that has been on the drawing board for a while .

Speaker #3: Again , we've been discussing this with the investors . It's taken longer than we had assumed , but if you saw the video right in the beginning , it's an absolutely new way of thinking about deliveries and utilizing the fiber's own innate capabilities of being able .

Ved Krishna: It has taken longer than we had assumed, but if you saw the video right in the beginning, it is an absolutely new way of thinking about deliveries and utilizing the fiber's own innate capabilities of being glueable, et cetera. The idea here is, like Shubham talked about, optimizing costs further. That said, what we are doing is that we are starting with a smaller facility so that the customers who are at least ready to get on board start getting material. As soon as we are in the market, there will be a much more understanding, and we can keep optimizing the cost. We are currently priced a little bit, almost 40% to 50% higher than a plastic container.

Speaker #3: ET cetera . ET cetera . So the idea here is , like Shubham talked about optimizing cost further , but that said , what we are doing is that we are starting with a smaller facility so that the customers who are at least ready to get on board , start getting material as soon as we are in the market , there will be a much more understanding and we can keep optimizing the costs .

Speaker #3: We are currently priced a little bit , almost 40 to 50% higher than a plastic container , but that also comes with a lot of advantages , not just in terms of the packing and unpacking experience , but also in the food profile as the chefs have been telling us , we have been in trials with .

Ved Krishna: But that also comes with a lot of advantages, not just in terms of the packing and unpacking experience, but also in the food profile as the chefs have been telling us, who we have been doing trials with. That said, we are basically buoyant about this effort, and hopefully, as we speak next quarter, there will be a lot more to report.

Speaker #3: So, that said, we are basically buoyant about this effort and hopefully, as we speak next quarter, there'll be a lot more to report.

Speaker #3: Thank you, thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Mr. Darcy. You can ask your question, please.

[Analyst]: Thank you.

[Analyst 1]: Thank you.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you. Mr. Darshil, you can ask your question, please.

Speaker #4: Hi . Good evening sir . Thank you so much for taking my question . Hopefully I'm audible , sir .

[Analyst 2]: Hello. Hi. Good evening, sir. Thank you so much for taking my question. Hopefully, I am audible, sir.

Speaker #2: Yeah, please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Yeah, yeah. So I just wanted to know, like, we've had really great growth in Q1. So we're going to maintain this across both the segments, right?

Pranay Pasricha: Yeah. Please go ahead.

[Analyst 2]: Yeah. Sir, just wanted to know, we have had really great growth in Q1, so we are going to maintain this across both the segments, right? Like Q2, Q3 will be, I think, usually the higher quarter. How would you see the FY27 playing out in terms of revenue, sir?

Speaker #4: Like Q3, Q2, Q3 will be, I think, usually the higher quarters. So how would you, you know, see the FY27 playing out in terms of revenue?

Speaker #4: So

Speaker #3: That's it. It's difficult to give an exact number, but like both Mayank and Shubham talked about, the idea is to keep growing both the top line and bottom line.

Ved Krishna: Darshil, it is difficult to give an exact number, but like both Mayank and Shubham talked about, the idea is to keep growing both the top line and bottom line. Our effort will remain to end up with a much stronger year than what we have had. We had had a bit of a slippage last year with some shutdowns getting delayed, et cetera. That said, we are more or less out of that situation. What we can assure you is that as a team, we will continue to work towards growing the top line further from Q1, and definitely the bottom line as well. We are not yet happy enough with what we have achieved, but that said, at least the growth is in the right direction.

Speaker #3: And our effort will remain to end up with a much stronger year than what we have had. We did have a bit of a slippage last year, with some shutdowns getting delayed, etc.

Speaker #3: But that said, we are more or less out of that situation, and what we can assure you is that, as a team, we will continue to work towards growing the top line further from Q1, and definitely the bottom line as well.

Speaker #3: We are not yet happy enough with what we've achieved, but that said, at least the growth is in the right direction.

Speaker #4: Okay , fair enough . So we can see some growth , right ? Like if that would be a fair assumption . I'm not saying it will be .

[Analyst 2]: Okay, fair enough. QOQ, we can see some growth, right? If that would be a fair assumption. I am not saying it will be. I am not asking for a range, but if we can see we will have positive momentum continuing, right?

Speaker #4: I'm not asking for a range, but if we can see, we'll have positive momentum continuing, right?

Speaker #3: That will definitely be our absolute effort.

Speaker #4: Yeah, that's really helpful, sir. And...

Speaker #3: Significant changes will, of course, come at least even this year in the top line. Once PM4 is commercially producing, because that, of course, means another significant quantity coming into place.

Ved Krishna: That will definitely be our absolute effort.

[Analyst 2]: Yeah. That's really helpful, sir.

Ved Krishna: Significant changes will, of course, come in at least even this year in the top line, once PM4 is commercially producing, because that, of course, means another significant quantity coming into place. So at least in the top line this year, then next year we would stabilize and also come in with better bottom line.

Speaker #3: So , so at least in the top line this year and then next year we would stabilize and also come up , come in with better bottom line .

Speaker #4: Okay , fair enough sir . For the PM four . What is the cost of the project ? And like , you know , how much can it cost ?

[Analyst 2]: Okay. Fair enough, sir. So for the PM4, what is the cost of the project and how much is it expanding our capacity by, right? Assuming this is coming towards the end of the year, so next year will be the full year of operationalization, right?

Speaker #4: How much is expanding or capacity by right ? Assuming this is coming in the towards the end of the year . So next year will be the full year of operation , right ?

Speaker #3: Yeah. So the total cost of the project is ₹753 crores right now, and it expands the capacity by a little over 3,000 tons a year.

Ved Krishna: Yeah. The total cost of Project Jagriti is INR 753 crores right now, and it expands the capacity by a little over 30,000 tons a year. A little over that. I don't think it's to do with the capacity itself, it's the quality of materials that we are going to produce. The idea is to get more and more into flexible packaging and produce the best possible substrate for that product. The effort that the team has been making is to create something which is again similar to Chuk, that has not been seen or envisaged by the world yet. We are, of course, hoping to present you with a product that will delight our investors as well as our customers.

Speaker #3: A little like over that. But I don't think it's to do with the capacity itself. It's the quality of materials that we are going to produce.

Speaker #3: So, the idea is to get more and more into flexible packaging and produce the best possible substrate for that—for that product.

Speaker #3: So, the effort that the team has been making is to create something which is, again, similar to Chuck, that has not been seen or envisaged by the world yet.

Speaker #3: So, we are, of course, hoping to present you with a product that will delight our investors as well as our customers.

Speaker #4: Oh , that's , that's really good . I have a few more questions . Can I ask them ? Should I join the you .

Speaker #2: Yeah , if you can circle back and join the queue , we'll come to you . All right . Mr. Raghav , can unmute and ask your question .

[Analyst 2]: Okay. That's really good. I have a few more questions. Can I ask them or should I join back the queue?

Pranay Pasricha: Yeah. Darshil, if you can circle back and join back the queue.

[Analyst 2]: Yeah. Okay.

Pranay Pasricha: We'll accommodate you. All right. Mr. Raghav, you can unmute and ask your question.

Speaker #4: Yeah .

Speaker #5: Hi. Good evening. Thank you for taking my question. I hope I'm audible.

Speaker #2: Yes, please go ahead.

[Analyst 3]: Yeah. Hi, good evening. Thank you for taking my question. I hope I'm audible.

Speaker #5: Yeah, I have two questions. My first question is regarding the flexi base paper. So, what I understand is that we are going to produce the base paper at PGM 4.

Pranay Pasricha: Yes, please go ahead.

[Analyst 3]: Yeah. I have two questions. My first question is regarding the FlexiBase paper. What I understand is that we are going to produce the base paper at PM4, and then we'll give it to converters to convert it into the final product to start with. So I just wanted to understand, when we say that we are doing lab trials and pilots in August and September, how are we exactly doing them? Is it through a third-party manufacturer? And then the eventual scale-up of it, is it contingent on PM4 starting? And if yes, what are the timelines? Because I think if commissioning is in November, it would take some time to stabilize and then scale it up. So if you could just help me understand our strategy here.

Speaker #5: And then we'll give it to converters to convert it into the final product . To start with . So I just wanted to understand , when we say that we are doing lab trials and pilots in August and September , how are we doing them ?

Speaker #5: Is it through a third party manufacturer ? And then the eventual scale up of it , is it contingent on PM four starting ?

Speaker #5: And if yes, what are the timelines? Because I think if commissioning is in November, it would take some time to stabilize and then scale it up.

Speaker #5: If you could just help me understand our strategy here.

Speaker #3: Absolutely. Great questions, and I appreciate the detail that you're going into. Yes. So, the initial idea is to produce the Flexi Base.

Ved Krishna: Absolutely. Great questions, and delight to hear the detail that you're going into. Yes, the initial idea is to produce the FlexiBase. Basically, what we are doing is to produce an extremely translucent paper, just to put it very simply. A very translucent paper that you can see through. It is extremely low porosity, so that it doesn't consume much chemicals in coating. It has also got a decent strength so that it runs on any converter's machine that has been running poly. Basically, that's the broad structure of the Flexi that has been envisaged and is being worked on. You're absolutely right. The pilot trials are being done in Europe. There is a machine.

Speaker #3: So basically what we are doing is to produce an extremely translucent paper , just to put it very , very simply , a very translucent paper that you can see through it is extremely low porosity so that it doesn't consume much chemicals and coating .

Speaker #3: And it is also got a decent strength so that it runs on any converters machine that has been running poly . So basically that's the broad structure of the flexible that has been that has been envisaged .

Speaker #3: And is being worked on . You're absolutely right . The pilot trials are being done in Europe . There is a machine we went through numerous machines across the world , and we chose one that mimics the final machine that we have put , which is difficult because we designed the entire machine from scratch as well .

Ved Krishna: We went through numerous machines across the world, and we chose one that mimics the final machine that we have put, which is difficult because we designed the entire machine from scratch as well, with the concept that we wanted to create something that is unique. Our machine is literally like no other in the world, the PM4 that is coming up. Basically, that pilot machine mimics the final machine. The trials that are going to be done in August, September, are on a similar machine that will produce a few reels of the paper that looks similar to the one that we'll produce in PM4. Why we do that is, one, that we are right in our proof of concept. It gives us confidence.

Speaker #3: With the concept that , you know , we wanted to create something that is unique . So our machine is literally like no other in the world that that the PM four that is coming up .

Speaker #3: So basically, that pilot machine mimics the final machine. So the trials that are going to be done in August, September are on a similar machine that will produce a few reels of the paper that look similar to the ones that we produce in PM4.

Speaker #3: Why we do that is, one, that we are right in our proof of concept. It gives us confidence. But the second, bigger part is that we are able to introduce a similar grade to the distributors and the customers to do smaller trials before the production kicks in.

Ved Krishna: The second bigger part is that we are able to introduce a similar grade to the distributors and the customers to do smaller trials before the production kicks in. That's the idea why we are doing the pilot trials in Europe. The PM4, you're right, it is going to start doing trials in November, which means yes, it takes a month or 2 to stabilize. You're looking at a commercial production early next year, say January, to stabilize and to start providing the market with the material that we are looking to produce. I hope that I've answered all your questions.

Speaker #3: So that's the idea why we are doing the pilot trials in Europe . The PM four that that that that is your right .

Speaker #3: It is going to start doing trials in November , which means , yes , it takes a month or two to stabilize . So you're looking at a commercial production early next year , say January to stabilize and to start providing the market with the material that we are looking to produce .

Speaker #3: I hope that I've answered all your questions.

Speaker #5: Yes , just one follow up to this . So great to hear . The strategy makes a lot of sense , but I just wanted to understand two things .

[Analyst 3]: Yes, just one follow-up to this, Sid. Great to hear the strategy, makes a lot of sense. I just wanted to understand 2 things. Firstly, because the paper quality would be dependent on the substrate which we are using, which is sugarcane bagasse in our case. Are we shipping the same raw material out to Europe and getting the same output with the same input? Secondly, I might be wrong here, but I feel that maybe a 2, 3-month window seems too short for a pilot and a successful outcome of a pilot. Are there some certain defined parameters or timelines or performance benchmarks which we have aligned to with our initial pilot trial customers to ensure it gets done in time?

Speaker #5: Firstly , because the paper quality would be dependent on the substrate which you are using , which is sugarcane . Bagasse . In our case .

Speaker #5: So are we shipping the same raw material out to Europe and getting the same output with the same input ? And secondly , I might be wrong here , but I feel that like maybe a two three month window seems too short for a pilot and a successful outcome of a pilot .

Speaker #5: So like , are there some certain defined parameters or timelines or performance benchmarks which you have aligned to with our initial pilot trial customers to ensure it gets done in time ?

Speaker #5: Essentially, what I want to get to is: what is the risk of this timeline being extended—extended by a few months or so?

Speaker #5: And what are we doing to mitigate this in...

[Analyst 3]: Essentially what I want to get to is what is the risk of this timeline being extended by a few months or so, and what are we doing to mitigate the same?

Speaker #3: Yeah , absolutely . Again , great question . So yes , absolutely . The substrate is exactly what we are going to use in our facility .

Ved Krishna: Yeah, absolutely. Again, great question. Yes, absolutely. The substrate is exactly what we are going to use in our facility. We have shipped pulp from India. It is exactly the same, not just the bagasse, but we also do a lot of trials with the long fiber, which is basically softwood. We zero in that this is the kind of softwood that we need. Although the facility can easily buy softwood in Europe, we haven't done that. We've shipped the softwood from Europe to know the exact ratios that we are going to follow. The bagasse pulp as well as the softwood has been shipped from there. Not just that, the chemicals.

Speaker #3: So we have shipped pulp from India . So it is exactly the same , not just the bagasse , but we also do a lot of trials with the long fiber , which is basically softwood .

Speaker #3: So we zero in on that. This is the kind of softwood that we need. So although the facility can easily buy softwood in Europe, we haven't done that.

Speaker #3: We've shipped the software from here to know the exact ratios that we are going to follow. So, the bagasse pulp as well as the softwood has been shipped from there.

Speaker #3: Not just that, the chemicals. So it's not just to do with the pulp, it is also to do with the chemistry that we will follow, especially in terms of what we call surface sizing or closing the surface mode.

Ved Krishna: It's not just to do with the pulp, it is also to do with the chemistry that we will follow, especially in terms of what we call surface sizing or closing the surface more. Those are things that are basically being mimicked. You're absolutely right. But the trial itself will happen in September, but the whole effort has been ongoing for the last 6 months or maybe even more. There is a certain process that you follow. There's a design of experiments that you create based on certain lab studies that you do, et cetera, over time. That's been coming for a while. We've been on it from even before we conceptualized this machine, actually. But this trial organization where we are doing it, this is only about 6 months of effort right now. You're right. Sometimes the stabilization will take time.

Speaker #3: So those are things that are basically being mimicked . You're absolutely right . But the , the , the trial itself will happen in September , but the whole effort has been ongoing for the last six months or maybe even more so with the .

Speaker #3: So , so it's not that the trial , like there is a certain process that you follow . There's a design of experiments that you create based on certain lab studies that you do , etcetera , et cetera .

Speaker #3: Over time . So that's not that's been coming for a while . We've been on it from even before we conceptualized this machine .

Speaker #3: Actually . So but this trial organization where we are doing it , this is only about six months of effort right now . You are right .

Speaker #3: Sometimes the stabilization will take time. So, the way we are mitigating that risk is that ultimately we will be able to produce certain grades that we already dabble in.

Ved Krishna: The way we are mitigating that risk is that ultimately we will be able to produce certain grades that we already dabble in. Say if we were to produce a release paper or we were to produce a greaseproof paper or a parchment paper, those are market grades. Those can anyways be produced on the same machine and introduced. That said, the effort is to keep it very narrow and to keep it very focused. But you're right. Sometimes things take longer than we had envisaged. The fallback will be to produce grades which are already sold in the market by us and by others.

Speaker #3: So, so say if we were to produce a release paper, or we were to produce a greaseproof paper or a parchment paper, those are market grades.

Speaker #3: Those can anyways be produced on the same machine . And introduced . That said , the effort is to keep it very , very narrow and to keep it very focused .

Speaker #3: But you're right , sometimes the things take longer than we had envisaged . So the effort , the fallback will be to produce grades which are already sold in the market by us and by others .

Speaker #5: Understood. Just one last...

Speaker #2: Sorry , Raghav . You can join back the Q and we'll get back to the questions . Yeah . Mr. Randy , you can go ahead and ask your question .

[Analyst 3]: Understood. Just one last thing.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you, Raghav. Sorry, Raghav, you can join back the queue and we'll join back to the questions. Mr. Randeep, you can go ahead and ask your question, please.

Speaker #2: Hello. Yes, please go ahead.

Speaker #4: Can you hear my voice?

Speaker #2: Yes , yes .

[Analyst 4]: Hello.

Speaker #4: Thank you sir . Thank you for taking my question , sir . My question regarding volume regarding sir , the volume growth or the for the improve

Pranay Pasricha: Yes, please go ahead. You are audible.

[Analyst 4]: Can you hear my voice?

Pranay Pasricha: Yes.

[Analyst 4]: Thank you, sir. Thank you for taking my question. Sir, volume growth improve?

Speaker #3: Volume growth volume

Speaker #4: For 27 as a consolidated level, sir.

Ved Krishna: Volume growth machine volume?

Speaker #3: Revenue growth volume of material growth.

[Analyst 4]: No, FY27 as a consolidated level, sir.

Speaker #4: Volume of material growth

Ved Krishna: Revenue growth or volume of material growth?

Speaker #3: So, obviously, your machine will be commissioned. Last quarter, plus some outsourcing business, contributed to the volumes, revenue, and volume.

[Analyst 4]: Volume of material growth.

Ved Krishna: हां जी, बिल्कुल। तो obviously जो हम लोगों ने बोला कि हमारी जो चौथी machine है वह भी commission हो जाएगी last quarter में, उसका भी फर्क पड़ेगा। Plus हम लोग काफी outsourcing business बढ़ा रहे हैं तो उसका भी फर्क पड़ेगा volumes में। दोनों revenue and volume दोनों पर ही पड़ेगा।

Speaker #4: Sir are chat FY 27 margin 19% . To expect . So first quarter 13% I think quarter . Margin is 19% above sir

[Analyst 4]: जैसे chat box में बता रहे हैं कि FY27 के लिए EBITDA margin 19% expect कर रहे हैं। तो अभी first quarter में 13% आया तो बचे हुए जो तीन quarter हैं उसमें EBITDA margin 19% से above आ पाएगा, sir?

Speaker #3: Aren't you

Speaker #6: Yeah I think first of all , the EBITDA margins for the first quarter is not 13% . It is about 14.5% . And definitely with the increased production coming into place , the better margin should go up .

Ved Krishna: मनशु।

Himanshu Kapoor: I think first of all, the EBITDA margins for the first quarter is not 13%, it is about 14.5%. With the revised increased production coming into place, the EBITDA margin should go up. We were consistently working at an EBITDA in excess of 23-24% all across 2023, 2024, 2025. As Shubham has said, with that, if Chuk for the first time after so many eight, nine years of operation turns profitable, there is no doubt that the EBITDA margin should be about 18% or 19% on the total sales which comes for FY27.

Speaker #6: We were constant consistently working at an EBITDA in excess of 23 , 24% all across 2023 , 24 , 25 , and as Shubham said , with the if Chuck , for the first time after so many eight , nine years of operation turns profitable , definitely .

Speaker #6: There is no doubt that the margin should be about 18 or 19% on the total . On the total sales , which comes for FY 27 .

Speaker #4: Sir , gross margin

Speaker #6: To improved gross margin . Your contribution to improve borrowing cost to start to . In . But to improve gross margins . Improve cost cut contribution better .

[Analyst 4]: Okay. Sir.

Ved Krishna: Thank you.

[Analyst 4]: gross margin हमारा improve कर सकता है क्या?

Himanshu Kapoor: Sir, EBITDA तभी improve करेगा जब gross margin या contribution कहीं न कहीं improve करेगा. उसके बिना कोई magic नहीं है. कोई borrowing cost बढ़ चुकी है. तो PBT तो नहीं हो सकता है, but वह तभी improve करेगा जब आपके gross margins improve हों या आप cost cut करके अपना contribution better करें. Basically, variable cost cut. Because fixed cost तो वही है. तो definitely वह improve होगा.

Speaker #6: Basically, variable cost, because fixed cost. So definitely, we improve.

Speaker #4: Okay. Thank you, sir.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Mr. You can go ahead and ask your question.

[Analyst 4]: Okay, thank you, sir.

Ved Krishna: Thank you. Mr. Kenil, you can go ahead and ask your question.

Speaker #7: Hello. Yeah. Am I audible?

Speaker #2: Yes, please go ahead.

Speaker #7: Yeah. So my question is regarding the factory which we are going to put in the US, which we had postponed.

[Analyst 5]: Hello. Yeah. Am I audible?

Ved Krishna: Yes, please go ahead.

Pranay Pasricha: Yes, please go ahead.

[Analyst 5]: Yeah. My question is regarding the factory which you are going to put at the US. That we had postponed. Can you please update us to what are we looking at? When are we looking to start with that? Because that is one of the main thing which everybody is looking at. Secondly, the debt which we have given it to some third person, the third party. What are we looking to do about that? Because for that also, we are additionally paying 2% of additional interest cost. Basically, I have the two questions.

[Analyst 6]: Yeah. My question is regarding the factory which you are going to put at the US. That we had postponed. Can you please update us to what are we looking at? When are we looking to start with that? Because that is one of the main thing which everybody is looking at. Secondly, the debt which we have given it to some third person, the third party. What are we looking to do about that? Because for that also, we are additionally paying 2% of additional interest cost. Basically, I have the two questions.

Speaker #7: So, can you please update us on what we are looking at? When are we looking to, you know, start with that? Because that is one of the main things that everybody is looking at.

Speaker #7: And secondly , the debt which we have given it to some third person , the third party . So what are we looking to do about that ?

Speaker #7: Because, therefore, we are also additionally paying two percent of additional interest cost, basically, of the two questions.

Speaker #3: Yes . So I'll answer the first . And maybe once you can take the second one , Colonel . Ultimately , the idea is to go back into a global expansion mode .

Ved Krishna: Yeah. I will answer the first one, maybe Himanshu can take the second one. Kenil, ultimately the idea is to go back into a global expansion mode. That is the effort. What we did realize last year was that we were spreading ourselves very thin. We were trying to raise money in US while we were trying to set up a unit in India, stabilizing that. The markets had taken a bit of a beating. The world geopolitics was not helping either. With that in mind, we have kind of tried to close the taps wherever we felt there was expenditures being done without returns. All those projects are in the standby mode. We continue to engage, not just in Guatemala, but other Latin American countries, because we had already initiated a lot of relationships.

Speaker #3: And that's the effort. What we did realize last year was that we were spreading ourselves very, very thin. We were trying to raise money in the US while we were trying to set up a unit in India, stabilizing that, and the markets had taken a bit of a beating.

Speaker #3: The world geopolitics wasn't helping either. So, with that in mind, we've kind of tried to close the taps wherever we felt there were expenditures being done without returns.

Speaker #3: All those projects are in the standby mode . We continue to engage , not just in Guatemala , but other Latin American countries , because we had already initiated a lot of relationships .

Speaker #3: So the effort from our side remains that we want to make sure that regenerative packaging solutions scale way beyond our capacity to scale.

Ved Krishna: The effort from our side remains that we want to make sure that regenerated packaging solutions scale way beyond our capacity to scale, so to say. In the sense that we have to grow beyond our own means. That will remain the effort. Of course, ultimately, sustainability of the current business is most important. With that, all our energy is being focused right now on Project Jagriti. This comes on stream this year, and as soon as this is stable, we will reinitiate those conversations. That said, our growth in US continues in terms of we are looking at exports, we are looking at providing some materials from India. But in terms of setting up manufacturing in Central America, we will hold it for another six months or so with softer conversations that are happening and our people who remain engaged on that side.

Speaker #3: So to say, you know, in the sense that we have to grow beyond our own means. So that will remain the effort.

Speaker #3: But of course , ultimately , sustainability of the current business is most important . So with that , all our energy is being focused , right now on project Jagriti .

Speaker #3: This comes on stream this year . And as soon as this is stable , we will reinitiate those conversations . That said , our growth in us continues in terms of we are looking at exports , we are looking at some providing some materials from India , but in terms of setting up manufacturing in Central America , we'll hold it for another six months or so with softer conversations that are happening .

Speaker #3: And our people who are who remain engaged on that side . So the ultimate aim is to get back to that . Himanshu , maybe you can talk about the debt .

Speaker #6: I didn't understand what they did . What , 2% . I mean , I didn't understand the question properly . Can you please repeat or clarify ?

Ved Krishna: The ultimate aim is to get back to that. Himanshu, maybe you can talk about the debt.

Himanshu Kapoor: I did not understand what debt at what 2%? I did not understand the question properly. Can you please repeat or clarify that?

Speaker #7: We have given the debt altogether to somebody, and we are paying a charge for it. Right?

Speaker #6: No , no , we have not given to anybody . I mean , where , where where is that impression coming from ?

[Analyst 5]: We have given the debt altogether to somebody, and we are paying a charge for it, right?

Speaker #7: No, no, no. So, we are taking debt at an additional cost compared to what the market is bearing. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, because this is what I had understood.

Himanshu Kapoor: No, we have not given debt to anybody. Where is that impression coming from?

[Analyst 5]: No. We are taking a debt at an additional cost than the market is bearing. Correct me if I'm wrong, because this is what I had understood.

Speaker #3: Our book about the—he's talking about the NEO transaction, I think.

Speaker #7: Correct , correct . Correct . Correct . Yeah . I , I , I was not getting the name correct . Correct . Yeah .

Ved Krishna: Himanshu-

[Analyst 5]: Our debts are booked.

Speaker #6: No . NIO transaction is a very Different transaction . As well as already explained . And I think last time in the call , when the transaction was there , I was specifically there to answer the queries .

Ved Krishna: He's talking about the Neo transaction, I think.

[Analyst 5]: Correct. Absolutely correct. I was not getting a name. Correct.

Himanshu Kapoor: No, Neo transaction is a very different transaction as Ved has already explained. I think last time in the call when the Neo transaction was there, I was specifically there to answer the queries. The reason was that the Project Jagriti was not getting commissioned basically because there was a shortfall in terms of there was an increase in project cost and there was a shortfall in terms of our contribution. Had we gone the normal route of contribution, it would have taken roughly about 15 to 18 months to actually commence the entire transaction, because the internal accruals could have only been loaded to the thing. What the promoter has done in this case is he's taken the burden on himself by taking some equity, by borrowing that money in a structured transaction and completing the transaction.

Speaker #6: And the reason was that the geographic project was not getting commissioned . Basically because there was a shortfall in terms of there was an increase in project cost , and there was a shortfall in terms of our our contribution .

Speaker #6: So, had we gone the normal route of contribution, it would have taken roughly about 15 to 18 months to actually commence the entire transaction, because the internal accruals could have only been loaded to the thing.

Speaker #6: So, what the promoter has done in this case is he's taken that burden on himself by taking some equity, by borrowing that money in a structured transaction, and completing the transaction.

Speaker #6: Therefore, the borrowing had to go from the current rate of 11% to roughly about 17%. And this transaction is specifically only for roughly about 18 to 20 months, within which time the company thinks that we will be able to stabilize the entire thing.

Himanshu Kapoor: Thereby, the borrowing had to go from the current rate of 11% to roughly about 17%. This transaction is specifically only for roughly about 18 to 20 months, within which time the company thinks that we will be able to stabilize the entire thing, and then they'll be able to refinance this debt, basically. In net net, what I had said last time also that the total outflow, which was perceived between 1 April 2026 and 31 March 2028, and that is how the transaction has been structured, was roughly including the bank interest as per the bank loan, roughly coming to about INR 150, INR 155 odd crores. In this transaction, which we have done in spite of an increased rate of interest, it comes to about INR 120, INR 122 odd crores.

Speaker #6: And then they'll be able to refinance this debt , basically . So , net net , what I had said last time also that the total outflow , which was perceived between 1st April 2026 and 31st March 2028 , and that is how the transaction has been structured , was roughly including the bank interest , as per the bank loan , roughly coming to about 150 155 out converts .

Speaker #6: And in this transaction, which we have done in spite of an increased rate of interest, it comes to about 120–122 crores.

Speaker #6: So still on a cash flow basis , on a profit and loss basis , definitely there is a tent at the end of the day , but on a cash flow basis , definitely it improves and it gives time for the company to come out of whatever problems have been engaged through the project .

Himanshu Kapoor: Still, on a cash flow basis, on a P&L basis, definitely there is a dent at the end of the day. But on a cash flow basis, definitely it improves and it gives time for the company to come out of whatever problems have been gauged through the project, rise in cost of the project and the internal accruals that were to put in to give them a breather for about next 18 months and then come back on track. I hope I could have answered your query.

Speaker #6: The rise in the cost of the project and the internal accruals that were to be put in will give them a breather for about the next 18 months and then come back on track. I hope I have answered your query.

Speaker #7: Yeah . So so to to sum it up about 18 to 24 months is a time frame . We're looking at . After that , the debt might reduce it to the original 11 to 13% from 17% .

[Analyst 5]: Yeah. To sum it up, about 18 to 24 months is the time frame we are looking at. After that might reduce it to the original 11% to 13% from 17%.

Speaker #6: We can do that earlier also. But we can do that earlier on also. But that is a bigger mosaic in terms of the repayment structure.

Speaker #6: So I think what you can take is, if the debt is to be retired, it will take about 16 to 18 months.

Himanshu Kapoor: We can do that earlier on too, but that has a bigger MOIC in terms of the repayment structure. I think what you can take is between, if the debt is to be retired, it will take about 16 to 18 months. But net net outflow in terms of what is getting charged is still lesser than what the company would have expended had we gone with the banks basically.

Speaker #6: But net-net, the outflow in terms of what is getting charged is still less than what the company would have expended had it gone with the banks, basically.

Speaker #7: Okay. Understood. Thank you for your time.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Mr. Ravi. You can ask your question now.

[Analyst 5]: Okay, understood. Thank you for the time.

Speaker #8: Yeah. Thank you. Am I audible?

Speaker #2: Yes , please .

Speaker #8: Yeah . First of all , congratulations on a good set of numbers . I think for the past three years , you know , I've been following closely and this is probably the first quarter where we have shown real growth .

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you. Mr. Ravi, you can ask your question now.

[Analyst 6]: Yeah. Thank you. Am I audible?

Pranay Pasricha: Yes, please.

[Analyst 6]: Yeah. First of all, congratulations on a good set of numbers. I think for the past three years I have been following closely, and this is probably the first quarter where we have shown real growth. My first question is to Mr. Ved. Ved, what is your assessment of the trials so far in terms of the new substrate that we are planning on PM4, right? I think we spoke about a lot of substrates last time. It looks like I think you have finalized on something. What is your initial assessment based on the lab trials and the trials that are going so far? This new substrate, what will be the realization? I think last time when we spoke, we were probably talking about something like INR 150 to INR 200 a kg for this new substrate on PM4. Just wanted to get your feedback.

Speaker #8: So my first question is to Mr. Wade . So , Wade , what is your assessment ? You know , of the trials so far in terms of the new substrate that we are planning on PM for ?

Speaker #8: Right. So, I think we spoke about a lot of substrates last time. It looks like, I think, you have finalized on something.

Speaker #8: So what is your initial assessment ? You know , based on the , you know , lab trials and the trials that are going so far ?

Speaker #8: And this new substrate , you know , what will be the realization ? I think last time when we spoke , we , we were probably talking about something like ₹150 to ₹200 a kilogram .

Speaker #8: You know, for this new substrate on PM, I just wanted to get your feedback.

Speaker #3: Thank you sir . The see ultimately , let me kind of put it more in perspective . Ultimately , as Pakka , there are three segments that we tackle .

Ved Krishna: Thanks, Ravi. See, ultimately, let me kind of put it more in perspective. Ultimately, as Pakka, there are three segments that we tackle. How do we transform the Wrap & Carry segment? How do we do better with the food service disposables? Of course, now the effort in the last couple of years has been how do you transform the flexible packaging segment. The whole effort in terms of the PM4 has been to tackle that flexible segment. What we have realized is that the barrier coatings are still a relative challenge, in terms of not just efficacy, but more in terms of acceptability, in terms of cost by the customer. We are taking smaller steps there.

Speaker #3: How do we transform the wrap and carry segment? How do we do better with the food service disposables? And of course, now the effort in the last couple of years has been: how do you transform the flexible packaging segment?

Speaker #3: So the whole effort in terms of the PM four has been to tackle that flexible segment . What we have realized is that the barrier coatings are still a relative challenge in terms of not just efficacy , but more in terms of acceptability , in terms of cost , by the customer .

Speaker #3: So we are taking smaller steps there . So what we are doing is we are starting with the flexible base paper . And there it goes back to what you know , somebody asked before , I think it was Raghav who mentioned the idea that the substrates that we are using .

Ved Krishna: What we are doing is we are starting with the FlexiBase paper, and there it goes back to what somebody asked before, I think it was Raghav, who mentioned the idea that the substrates that we are using. In terms of bagasse, we have to get back to what is Every fiber has its own pluses and minuses. In terms of bagasse, it is a much shorter fiber. If you can imagine it fills the sheet more. It is a less porous paper that it creates. It is also a much lighter fiber in terms of density from a wood fiber. What happens is there is a certain see-through property that is created. Those are inherent properties of bagasse, and that is what we are playing with. What bagasse doesn't offer is a very, very high tear strength.

Speaker #3: So, in terms of bagasse, we have to get back to the fact that every fiber has its own pluses and minuses. So, in terms of bagasse, it's a much shorter fiber.

Speaker #3: So if you can imagine it , it fills the sheet more . So it is a less porous paper that it creates . It's also a much lighter fiber than a in terms of density from a wood fiber .

Speaker #3: So what happens is, there's a certain see-through property that is created. So those are inherent properties of bagasse, and that's what we are playing with.

Speaker #3: What bagasse doesn't offer is a very , very high tear strength . So how we compensate is it that is with the ratio of blending in about 20 to 25% , certain kinds of softwoods that provide the additional tear strength that is needed .

Ved Krishna: So how we compensate that is with a ratio of blending in about 20% to 25% certain kinds of softwoods that provide the additional tear strength that is needed. Based on that, the whole trial, the whole product has been conceptualized. Ultimately, we are of course, extremely kind of buoyant about what we are going to produce. Of course, for us it's all about how do we create something that has not been created before. That's the effort when we go to trials on the pilot machines. Those are the trials that we have been taking in the past. Of course, as soon as the machine comes, the machine is way more sophisticated than literally any global machine today. So, we haven't left any stones unturned when it comes to achieving those properties of porosity, translucency, strength and smoothness.

Speaker #3: So based on that , the whole trial , the whole product conceptualized . Ultimately , we are , of course , extremely kind of buoyant about what we are going to produce .

Speaker #3: Of course , for us , it's all about , you know , how do we create something that has not been created before ?

Speaker #3: And that's the effort. When we go to trials and the pilot machines, those are the trials that we have been taking in the past.

Speaker #3: And of course , as soon as the machine comes , the machine is way more sophisticated than the treaty . Any machine today .

Speaker #3: So , so in terms of we haven't left any stones unturned when it comes to achieving those properties of porosity , translucency , strength and smoothness .

Speaker #3: Those are the four big properties that any coating substrate needs, so it will be good for coating any kind of structure.

Speaker #3: What we look at when we look at the financials is not what the NSR is going to be, but what the contribution is going to be.

Ved Krishna: Those are the four big properties that any coating substrate needs. So it will be good for coating for any kind of structure. What we look at when we look at the financials is not what the NSR is going to be, but what the contribution is going to be. The effort is continuously to work towards a better contribution than we have ever achieved with any of our products. That's the target. I cannot spell it out just from a perspective of just trade kind of understanding. But let me assure you this, that the team is continuously working, and we are pretty confident of achieving a contribution level that is higher than any of the grades that we've ever produced. Of course, it does result in a better revenue number also, but that's not the one we focus on.

Speaker #3: So, the effort is continuously to work towards a better contribution than we have ever achieved with any of our products. And that's the target.

Speaker #3: I cannot spell it out just from a perspective of , you know , just just straight , kind of understanding . But let me assure you this , that the team is continuously working and we are pretty confident of achieving a contribution level that is higher than any of the grades that we've ever produced .

Speaker #3: And of course , it does result in a better revenue number also . But that's not the one we focus on . We focus a lot more on the ultimately , the contribution that any grade is going to make .

Speaker #3: And internally, we go down to focusing on contribution per hour that any machine produces, not even contribution per tonne. But that's the key figure for us.

Ved Krishna: We focus a lot more on ultimately the contribution that any grade is going to make. Internally, we go down to focusing on contribution per hour that any machine produces, not even contribution per ton. But that's the key figure for us. So if any of us you ask who are in operations, we will always know any machine's contribution per hour and how it's doing today.

Speaker #3: So if you ask any of us who are in operations, we will always know any machine's contribution per hour and how it's doing today.

Speaker #8: Okay . Thank you . With my second question is to Mr. Shubham . So last August , you know , specific to food services , I think we had mentioned that we will probably reach a ten X of what we are today by 2028 .

[Analyst 6]: Okay. Thank you. My second question is to Mr. Shubham. Last August, specific to food services, I think we had mentioned that we will probably reach 10x of what we are today by 2028. I think we spoke about INR 680 crores of revenue for food services. I think last quarter also you mentioned that we are on track. So one specific question there is, again, correct me if I'm wrong, today, I think food services is around 3,000 tons. So for us to go to 10x, I think it'll be 30,000 tons. Right? All of this, I am assuming we are probably going to get through outsourcing. Is that the plan? If so, what about the pulp? Because the pulp, the additional capacity that we have here probably will go to PM4. So basically, just wanted to understand the plan from an execution point of view.

Speaker #8: I think we spoke about 66, 84 crores of revenue for food services. And I think last quarter also, you mentioned that we are on track.

Speaker #8: So one specific question there is , you know , again , correct me if I'm wrong today . I think food services is around 3000 tonnes , you know , so for us to go to ten X , I think it will be 3000 tonnes .

Speaker #8: Right ? So all of this I am assuming we are probably going to get through outsourcing . Is that the plan ? If so , what about the pulp ?

Speaker #8: You know , because the pulp that we additional capacity that we have here probably will go to pay for . So what is the basically , you know , just wanted to understand the plan from an execution point of view

Speaker #5: So the

Speaker #4: Additional incremental .

Speaker #5: Volume growth that we are looking at for the business is going to come through outsourcing sites . Of course , at our mother plant also , we may consider in the future to do something , but primarily for this financial year , we are focusing on building capacity through outsourcing partners on the pulp side , while for reaches optimal capacity , at least until then we are quite confident that we will have the pulp that we need .

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: Right. So indeed, the additional incremental volume growth that we are looking at for the business is going to come through outsourcing sites. Of course, at our mother plant also, we may consider in the future to do something, but primarily for this financial year, we are focusing on building capacity through outsourcing partners. On the pulp side, while PM4 reaches optimal capacity, at least until then, we are quite confident that we will have the pulp that we need. But that being said, there are multiple other avenues for procuring pulp domestically and through foreign parties. So that should not be an issue. Of course, we would prefer if that pulp was coming through our own plant. But yeah, that will be covered.

Shubham Tibrewal: Right. So indeed, the additional incremental volume growth that we are looking at for the business is going to come through outsourcing sites. Of course, at our mother plant also, we may consider in the future to do something, but primarily for this financial year, we are focusing on building capacity through outsourcing partners. On the pulp side, while PM4 reaches optimal capacity, at least until then, we are quite confident that we will have the pulp that we need. But that being said, there are multiple other avenues for procuring pulp domestically and through foreign parties. So that should not be an issue. Of course, we would prefer if that pulp was coming through our own plant. But yeah, that will be covered.

Speaker #5: But that being said, there are multiple other avenues for procuring pulp—both domestically and through foreign parties—so that should not be an issue.

Speaker #5: Of course, we would prefer if that was coming through our own plant, but yeah, that will be covered.

Speaker #8: All right. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Mr. ____. You can go ahead and ask your question.

Speaker #9: Hi , hope I'm audible

[Analyst 6]: All right. Thank you.

Ved Krishna: Thank you. Mr. Darshan, you can go ahead and ask your question.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you. Mr. Darshan, you can go ahead and ask your question.

Speaker #2: Yes, you are audible, sir.

Speaker #9: So, my first question is: currently, what are the margins in the existing products, and what are the margins we are expecting in the new product?

[Analyst 7]: Hi, sir. Hope I'm audible.

Ved Krishna: Yes, you are audible.

Pranay Pasricha: Yes, you are audible.

[Analyst 7]: My first question is, currently, what are the margins in the existing products, and what are the margins we are expecting in the new products? My reason for asking this question is how we are so comfortable and how we are so giving the guidance of 19% EBITDA margins on FY27.

Speaker #9: So, my reason for asking this question is how we are so comfortable and how we are so confident in giving the guidance of 19% EBITDA margins on '27.

Speaker #2: So broadly , what .

Speaker #3: We focus on is three markets , all three are related with food . The primary business has been wrapping and carrying of food .

Ved Krishna: Broadly, what we focus on, Darshan, is three markets. All three are related with food. The primary business has been wrapping and carrying of food. Things like the QSR bags, wrappers. That is the primary focus on our Wrap & Carry division. The second one that we have been talking about and growing is the food services disposables. There, again, the effort is to grow that division by creating better substrates for food service. The third one that we are now looking at is food packaging, which is more on the flexible side right now, and eventually we will also go to rigids. That is the broad differentiation in market. We have operated at 23% to 25% EBITDA, as Himanshu mentioned before. It is like 19% is not something that bothers us.

Speaker #3: So, things like the QSR bags and wrappers, that's the primary focus of our wrap and carry division. The second one that we've been talking about and growing is the food service disposables.

Speaker #3: They're there again. The effort is to grow that division by creating better substrates for food service. And the third one that we are now looking at is food packaging, which is more on the flexible side right now.

Speaker #3: And eventually, we'll also go to Rigids, but that's the broad differentiation. And the market we have operated at 23% to 25% EBITDA.

Speaker #3: As you mentioned before, so it's like 19% is not something that bothers us. We have been stabilizing some of our expansions, which has kind of given us a little bit of a hit.

Speaker #3: But that said, we see things stabilizing. So I don't think 19%—I would even go ahead and say that 19% is also a low bar for us.

Ved Krishna: We have been stabilizing some of our expansions, which has given us a little bit of a hit. That said, we see things stabilizing. I do not think 19% I would even go ahead and say that 19% is also a low bar for us. We will have to go towards bettering 25% and above in the future. We will continue to work as a team towards that. Do not get too flustered with 19%. Our targets are higher than that.

Speaker #3: We will have to work towards exceeding 25% and above in the future. We will continue to work as a team towards that.

Speaker #3: So, don't get too flustered with 19%. Our targets are higher than that.

Speaker #9: Thanks for your answer, sir. Secondly, what is the current utilization level of the existing plant, and how are we seeing the ramp-up of the new plant coming, which is going live in December?

[Analyst 7]: Thanks for your answer, sir. Secondly, what is the current utilization level on the existing plant, and how are we seeing the ramp-up of the new plant coming, which is go live in December?

Speaker #3: Sorry, what was the first part of your question?

Speaker #9: What are the current utilization levels at the existing plant?

Speaker #3: Existing plant is all over 100% . So and the ramp up kind of takes we we normally consider the first few months to be around 40 to 50% , the next year to be about 60 to 70% .

Ved Krishna: Sorry, what was your first part of your question?

[Analyst 7]: What is the current utilization levels on the existing plant?

Ved Krishna: Existing plant is all over 100%. The ramp-up kind of takes, we normally consider the first few months to be around 40% to 50%, the next year to be about 60% to 70%, and then the plant stabilizes at about 80% to 90% by 2028. So that's the typical, at least in our financial projections, that's the ramp-up that take.

Speaker #3: And then the plant stabilizes at about 80 to 90% in by 2028 . So that's the typical , at least in our financial projections .

Speaker #3: That's the ramp-up that we take.

Speaker #9: Okay . So my one question on the chat box chat box has been unanswered . So what is the current working capital days and inventory days and what are the plans to improving it

[Analyst 7]: Okay. Sir, one question on the chat box has been unanswered. What is the current working capital days and inventory days? What are the plans to improving it?

Speaker #3: Challenge or

Ved Krishna: Manoj? Thank you very much. Manoj, will you talk?

Speaker #4: Current inventory .

Speaker #6: Days

Speaker #4: 15 days, or for a new product, we have a stabilization period of 15 to 30 days to consider.

Manoj Kumar Maurya: Current inventory days, our FG is 15 days. For the new product, we are in the stabilization period of 15 to 30 days.

Manoj Maurya: Current inventory days, our FG is 15 days. For the new product, we are in the stabilization period of 15 to 30 days.

Speaker #9: Okay. And overall, working capital days?

Speaker #4: Actually, seasonal raw material. So days are justified for our main raw materials, and paddy husk is mainly procured during three months—March and working capital. Thank you.

[Analyst 7]: Okay. Overall working capital days?

Manoj Kumar Maurya: Actually, ours is a seasonal raw material, so it will not be justified to look at it based on days because our main raw material, which is bagasse and paddy husk, is procured mainly for 3 months, which implies that we keep peak working capital at the end of March.

Manoj Maurya: Actually, ours is a seasonal raw material, so it will not be justified to look at it based on days because our main raw material, which is bagasse and paddy husk, is procured mainly for 3 months, which implies that we keep peak working capital at the end of March.

Speaker #4: Okay , okay .

Speaker #9: And, like, are there any ways to improve it? Any three?

Speaker #2: Sorry to interrupt. I think there are a lot of questions. You can maybe come back in the queue.

[Analyst 7]: Okay. And like-

Speaker #9: Okay, I will come back around.

Ved Krishna: Thank you.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you.

Speaker #2: Yeah, thank you. Mr., you can go ahead and ask your question.

[Analyst 7]: Are there any ways to improve it? Anything-

Ved Krishna: Sorry to interrupt. I think a lot of questions. You can maybe come back in the queue and

Pranay Pasricha: Sorry to interrupt. I think a lot of questions. You can maybe come back in the queue and

Speaker #9: Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is regarding the churn in the top management. There has been continuous churn over the last year in the top management, and recently, the CFO has resigned.

[Analyst 7]: Okay. I will come back to it.

Ved Krishna: Yeah. Thank you. Mr. Manan, you can go ahead and ask your question.

Pranay Pasricha: Yeah. Thank you. Mr. Manan, you can go ahead and ask your question.

[Analyst 8]: Yeah. Hi. Thanks for the opportunity. My first question is regarding the churn in the top management. There has been continuous churn over the last year in the top management, and recently, a CFO has resigned. Okay, so how do we see it going forward since the company is already going through so many operational changes? How should we look at it going ahead, the top management changes?

Speaker #9: Okay . So how do we see it going forward since the company is already going through so many operational changes , how do how should we look at it going ahead ?

Speaker #9: The top management changes

Speaker #3: It's a great question . And this responsibility completely lies on me and . And I'm trying to learn . And we have a good team and we have a good and a solid team .

Ved Krishna: No, it's a great question, Mr. Manan, and this responsibility completely lies on me. I am trying to learn. We have a good team, and we have a good and a solid team. We, of course, need to make sure that long-termism is important for the organization, so we will continue to work at it. That said, certain challenges, if they come up, we have to face it head-on, and sometimes we have to take bitter calls and not ideal, but that's something that goes along with business. No guarantees in the end, because ultimately there are so many things that happen in life that lead to changes. It could be personal, it could be professional, it could be performance, it could be various things. As a team, we are very closely bonded, and we work as friends with each other.

Speaker #3: We of course need to make sure that like in long termism is important for the organization . So we'll continue to work at it .

Speaker #3: But that said , in challenges , if they come up , we have to face it head on . And sometimes we have to take bitter calls and not ideal , but that's something that goes along with business .

Speaker #3: No guarantees in the end, because ultimately, you know, there are so many things that happen in life that lead to changes.

Speaker #3: It could be personal , it could be professional , it could be performance , it could be various things , but as a team , we are very , very closely bonded and we work as friends with each other .

Speaker #3: As you might realize , when you talk to all of us , and this is of course , just a sliver of the team that you see even now .

Speaker #3: But across the organization , it's extremely flat organization . And also very , very driven with a very sense of ownership . So that's the that's broadly how we function .

Ved Krishna: As you might realize when you talk to all of us, and this is of course, just a sliver of the team that you see even now, but across the organization, it's extremely flat organization and also very driven with a very strong sense of ownership. That's broadly how we function. Yes, we have made changes to both the GrabnGo CEO and CFO for various kind of reasons. We hope to remain stable in the coming times. That said, again, repeating, no guarantees there, but that's the effort that we continue to make.

Speaker #3: Yes , we have made changes to both the , the wrap and carry CEO and CFO for various kind of reasons . And we hope to remain stable in the coming times .

Speaker #3: But that said , again , repeating no guarantees there . But that's the effort that we'll continue to make .

Speaker #9: Yeah . Thanks for that . Just a follow up on that . Do we have are we also working on , you know , creating in our capabilities for future leadership ?

[Analyst 8]: Yeah. Thanks, Ved, for that. Just a follow-up on that. Are we also working on creating inner capabilities for future leadership? My second question is relating to the manufacturing outsourcing for the delivery containers that we will be doing. How are we planning to protect the know-how of the product and other people not mimicking and undercutting our prices as it has happened in the past?

Speaker #9: And my second question is relating to the manufacturing outsourcing for the delivery containers that we will be doing. How are we planning to protect the, you know, know-how of the product and prevent other people from making and undercutting our prices, as has happened in the past?

Speaker #3: Superb . Yes , absolutely . I think this is not just been a learning for us in terms of the changes in leadership , but also it has been a great learning in terms of when we expanded internationally , one of the learnings is that we have to have stronger internal teams develop that we can grow in numerous parts of the world .

Ved Krishna: Superb. Yes, absolutely. I think this has not just been a learning for us in terms of the changes in leadership, but also it has been a great learning, Mr. Manan, in terms of when we expanded internationally. One of the learnings is that we have to have stronger internal teams developed that we can grow in numerous parts of the world. What we did last year was that we picked out six of our leaders, and they actually have a cohort right now. The idea is that in the next 2 years maximum, we will have a set of at least six people who are ready to take on any global responsibility. So they are being trained and mentored by numerous industry leaders actually right now. That is one part of it, that six cohort. We also have very strong succession built into the organization.

Speaker #3: So what we did last year was that we picked out six of our leaders, and they actually have a cohort right now.

Speaker #3: And the idea is that in the next two years, maximum, we'll have a set of at least six people who are ready to take on any global responsibility.

Speaker #3: So they are being trained and mentored by numerous industry leaders , actually , right now that there's one part of it , that six cohort , we also have very strong succession built into the organization .

Speaker #3: Each one of us has to identify at least two people who we are working with to develop our succession. So that's something that is pretty much structured in the organization.

Speaker #3: And we do want to grow globally . And we know that it has to be internal capacity building . Also , because as a organization , our culture and the ethos is very , very different .

Ved Krishna: Each one of us has to identify at least two people who we are working with to develop our succession. That is something that is pretty much structured in the organization. We do want to grow globally, and we know that it has to be internal capacity building also because as an organization, our culture and ethos is very different. We find it's very difficult for us to find lateral talent from outside the industry without disturbing our culture. That is something that we are very wary of, and we are kind of continuing to build that. The second is, again, a superb question. We are not actually outsourcing delivery. Shubham has been very clear that the delivery containers are going to be made internally, so the entire facility is going to be internal. Maybe Shubham can add some more to it.

Speaker #3: So, we find it's very difficult for us to find talent from outside the industry without disturbing our culture. So that's something that we are very wary of, and we are kind of continuing to build that.

Speaker #3: The second is , again , a superb question . We are not actually outsourcing delivery . So Shubham has been very clear that the delivery containers are going to be made internally .

Speaker #3: So the entire facility is going to be internal . Maybe Shubham can add some more to it , but the idea is , yes , there is a lot of IP that goes into the barrier coating , etc.

Speaker #3: But maybe we can add that.

Speaker #5: Yeah , absolutely . These are our proprietary technologies . And one decision that we make strategically is that every time we come up with an innovation and innovative technology , or we will ensure that that is manufactured in our own facility .

Ved Krishna: But the idea is, yes, there is a lot of IP that goes into the barrier coating, et cetera, but maybe Shubham can add that.

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: Yeah, absolutely. These are the proprietary technologies. One decision that we make strategically is that every time we come up with an innovation, an innovative technology, we will ensure that is manufactured in our own facility. So we are not outsourcing that, and therefore we are able to keep that secured.

Shubham Tibrewal: Yeah, absolutely. These are the proprietary technologies. One decision that we make strategically is that every time we come up with an innovation, an innovative technology, we will ensure that is manufactured in our own facility. So we are not outsourcing that, and therefore we are able to keep that secured.

Speaker #5: So we are not outsourcing that, and therefore we are able to keep that secured.

Speaker #9: Okay. But I thought we have already taken all the molded products out, outsourcing.

Speaker #5: No , no , no , it's not sorry . The additional capacity that we're building , we're building it externally . But we , we of course run a plant and we have we have the option of moving products in and out .

Ved Krishna: Okay. But I thought we have already taken all the molded products outsourcing.

[Analyst 8]: Okay. But I thought we have already taken all the molded products outsourcing.

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: No, it is not. Sorry. The additional capacity that we are building, we are building it externally. We, of course, run a plant and we have machines. We have the option of moving products in and out. We can swap in products that we make in-house to outhouse to free up some capacity for the delivery product. That is what we do.

Shubham Tibrewal: No, it is not. Sorry. The additional capacity that we are building, we are building it externally. We, of course, run a plant and we have machines. We have the option of moving products in and out. We can swap in products that we make in-house to outhouse to free up some capacity for the delivery product. That is what we do.

Speaker #5: So we can swap in products that we make in the house , to our house , to free up some capacity for the delivery products .

Speaker #5: So that's what we do.

Speaker #9: Okay , okay . And just one feedback . I have , if I can just slip in . So I happen to maybe six months back , 6 or 8 months back , I happened to got some delivery , basically room service at Club Mahindra .

Ved Krishna: Okay. Just one feedback I have, if I can just slip it in. Maybe 6 months back, 6 or 8 months back, I happened to get some delivery, basically room service at Club Mahindra. I got a delivery of dal khichdi in a paper container. As usual, I checked whether it is of Pakka. There was no branding on the top of it, but I started eating and then at the bottom I found the branding. But again, the paper got soggy. I thought it is better that they did not give their name on the top. The experience was not very good, and it hit the reputation of the product in my mind. Yeah. That is one thing.

[Analyst 8]: Okay. Just one feedback I have, if I can just slip it in. Maybe 6 months back, 6 or 8 months back, I happened to get some delivery, basically room service at Club Mahindra. I got a delivery of dal khichdi in a paper container. As usual, I checked whether it is of Pakka. There was no branding on the top of it, but I started eating and then at the bottom I found the branding. But again, the paper got soggy. I thought it is better that they did not give their name on the top. The experience was not very good, and it hit the reputation of the product in my mind. Yeah. That is one thing.

Speaker #9: I got delivery of Dal Khichadi in a paper container . So I , as usual , I checked whether it is of Pakka .

Speaker #9: So there was no branding on the top of it, but I started eating and then at the bottom I found the branding.

Speaker #9: But again , the paper got soggy . So I thought it's better that they didn't give their name on the top . So I mean , the experience was not very good .

Speaker #9: And you know, it hit the reputation of the product in my mind. Yeah, so that is one thing.

Speaker #5: Feedback .

Speaker #2: Yeah, sorry. Go ahead.

Speaker #5: So that's it. I was just saying thank you. We will look into it.

Speaker #2: Yes . Thank you . I try to address and improve on it . And investigate the issue . Okay . Mr. Geet you can go ahead with your question .

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: Thanks for the feedback.

Shubham Tibrewal: Thanks for the feedback.

Ved Krishna: Yeah. Sorry, go ahead, Shubham.

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: Well, that's it. I'm just saying thank you. We'll look into it.

Shubham Tibrewal: Well, that's it. I'm just saying thank you. We'll look into it.

Speaker #2: Please

Ved Krishna: Yes.

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: Thanks.

[Analyst 8]: Thanks.

Speaker #8: Thank you .

Ved Krishna: We'll definitely try to address and improve on it and investigate the issue. Okay, Mr. Jit, you can go ahead with your question, please.

Ved Krishna: We'll definitely try to address and improve on it and investigate the issue.

Speaker #2: My first question is on delivery containers. I just wanted to understand, I mean, what has really changed today as compared to what we spoke about in the last quarter?

Pranay Pasricha: Okay, Mr. Jit, you can go ahead with your question, please.

Speaker #2: I mean , so how has the product development really shaped up in the last How is the readiness to launch these products ? Have , you know , progressed what we wanted to understand because in , in our mind , I mean , I just wanted to understand how , how , how have we progressed in the last three months ?

[Analyst 9]: Thank you, Pranay. My first question is on delivery containers. I just wanted to understand what has really changed today as compared to what we spoke in the last quarter. So how has the product development really shaped up in the last 3 months? How has the readiness to launch these products progressed, is what we wanted to understand. Because in our mind, I just wanted to understand how have we progressed in the last 3 months. Because in the last quarter also, I think we were 50% premium to plastic containers, and even today we stand at 40% to 50%. Like you said, probably in the next quarter, we'll be launching our first facility. So if you can provide some numbers around the kind of CapEx we plan to do with this first facility. So that is my first question.

Speaker #2: Because in the last quarter also, I think we were at a 50% premium to plastic containers, and even today we stand at 40% to 50%.

Speaker #2: So and like you said , I mean , probably in the next quarter , we'll be launching our first facility . So if you can provide some numbers around , you know , the kind of CapEx we plan to do with this first facility .

Speaker #2: So, that is my first question.

Speaker #3: Should I go ahead, or do you want to tackle it?

Speaker #5: Or you or I can complete it.

Speaker #3: And supplement . Okay , okay . I think Jeep mostly Shubham and us have been fighting for the last quarter . You know , actually a few quarters , but but because Shubham of course pushes hard on the cost structure and I lead the product development .

Ved Krishna: Shubham, should I go ahead or you want to tackle it?

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: You can. I can complete it.

Shubham Tibrewal: You can. I can complete it.

Ved Krishna: I can supplement. Okay. Okay. I think, Mr. Jit, mostly Shubham and us have been fighting for the last quarter. No, actually a few quarters. But because Shubham, of course, pushes hard on the cost structure and I lead the product development, so we kind of butt heads. Significant improvements in the last quarter, which we have managed to convince Shubham to actually launch it, thanks to that. The biggest one that happened, interestingly, was not of our making. We were working very closely with a very large food provider, and they were doing extensive trials. We were actually amazed at their quality of trials. Our teams have been in and out of their facilities, working with their chefs, et cetera.

Speaker #3: So, we kind of butted heads about significant improvements in the last quarter, which we managed to convince Shubham to actually implement.

Speaker #3: Thanks to that , the biggest one that happened , interestingly , was not of our making . So we were working very closely with a very , very large food provider , and they were doing extensive trials .

Speaker #3: We were actually amazed at their quality of trials. So our teams have been in and out of their facilities, working with their chefs, etc.

Speaker #3: . So , so the what convinced Shubham in the end was when they said that their food profile is very different when they package in our container versus a plastic container that they were using before , which was very surprising for us .

Speaker #3: We had not factored that bit in, and that's the reason they are going to be ready to absorb that 40–50% price differential.

Ved Krishna: What convinced Shubham in the end was when they said that their food profile is very different when they package in our container versus the plastic container that they were using before, which was very surprising for us. We had not factored that bit in. And that is the reason they are going to be ready to absorb that 40% to 50% price differential. You are absolutely right. We have not had any kind of breakthrough in terms of a significant cost reduction. And we know that there is a certain amount of risk that we would want to take because of the quality we want to provide. We are looking at a cheaper option, and this is again being pushed by Shubham, through heat sealing.

Speaker #3: You're absolutely right . There is no we haven't had any kind of breakthrough in terms of a significant cost reduction . And we know that there is a certain amount of risk that we want to take because of the quality we want to provide .

Speaker #3: We are looking at a cheaper option , and that is , again , being pushed by Shubham through heat sealing . So so what we are trying to do is that our current structure is cold sealed , which makes it very easy for the user .

Speaker #3: And they don't need any machinery , etc. so we will launch that . But for the larger consumers who are more cost sensitive , we are also looking at reorienting , redesigning the product so it can also take in a heat seal , which of course takes down the cost of living overall .

Ved Krishna: What we are trying to do is that our current structure is cold sealed, which makes it very easy for the user, and they do not need any machinery, et cetera. We will launch that. But for the larger consumers who are more cost sensitive, we are also looking at reorienting, redesigning the product so it can also take in a heat seal, which of course, takes down the cost of lidding overall. But there is another challenge that the user faces in having a heat sealing kind of machine. That is broadly what has happened in the last 3 months. Shubham was extremely clear that he will not launch the product till we have done extensive customer trials.

Speaker #3: But there is another challenge that the user faces in having a heat-sealing kind of machine. So, that is broadly what has happened in the last three months.

Speaker #3: Shubham was extremely clear that he will not launch the product till we have done extensive customer trials . So , so even with all my optimism , he did not let us go to the market .

Speaker #3: And he said , results . Show me results . And in the end , I think he seems convinced . So at least he's given us the green signal because it's his call .

Ved Krishna: So even with all my optimism, he did not let us go to the market, and he said, "Show me results." In the end, I think he seems convinced, so at least he has given us the green signal because it is his call in the end whether we launch or not. The initial facility is going to be less than INR 2 crores of investment initially. That is more or less in the pipeline. So it is mostly the coating machines and the gluing machines, which are completely automated. But we are using some of our older machines for the molding itself. So it is not going to be that costly. But over to Shubham, if you want to add anything.

Speaker #3: In the end , whether we launch or not . The facility , initial facility is not actually going to be . It's going to be less than two crores of investment initially , and that will more or less .

Speaker #3: Yeah , it's it's more or less in the pipeline . So so it's mostly the coating machines and the gluing machines , which are completely automated .

Speaker #3: But we are using some of our older machines for the molding itself. So, yeah. So it's not going to be that costly, but over to Shubham.

Speaker #3: If you want to add anything,

Speaker #5: That's really I mean , the , the main idea is that the Pakka promises of excellence , which we have done through all our products .

Speaker #5: So we are very , very , wary of not launching a half baked product into the market . So that that is a very important criteria for us .

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: Absolutely. I mean, the main idea is that the Pakka promises of excellence, which we have done through all our products. So we are very wary of not launching a half-baked product into the market. So that is a very important criteria for us. Of course, the market is very price sensitive. So they see the value, but they also want the price. So we work to balance these two items out as well as we can.

Shubham Tibrewal: Absolutely. I mean, the main idea is that the Pakka promises of excellence, which we have done through all our products. So we are very wary of not launching a half-baked product into the market. So that is a very important criteria for us. Of course, the market is very price sensitive. So they see the value, but they also want the price. So we work to balance these two items out as well as we can.

Speaker #5: And of course , the market is very price sensitive . So they they see the value , but they also want the price .

Speaker #5: So, we work to balance these two items out as well as we can.

Speaker #2: Perfect . This was helpful . My second question is I wanted to understand the nzs of our paper segment . So I think in the last 8 to 10 quarters we've stopped showing volumes of , I mean , tonnage of paper that we sell the quantities .

[Analyst 9]: Oh, perfect, this was helpful. My second question is, I wanted to understand the NSRs of our paper segment. So I think in the last 8 to 10 quarters, we have stopped showing volumes of, I mean, tonnage of paper that we sell, the quantities. I think in the present quarter, we started some trading activity, and in the chat I could figure out that the quantum is around 6 to 8 crores of trading activity. So if you can just split that particular thing. I mean, what is the paper manufacturing volumes, manufacturing sales? From that, we are able to understand the NSRs. From it, sir, we just wanted to understand how are the NSRs picking for our commodity segment, the paper segment? How have they shaped in the last two quarters, and probably your view on that for the next couple of quarters.

Speaker #2: And I think in the present quarter we started some trading activity, and in the chat I could figure out that the quantum is around ₹6 to ₹8 crore of trading activity.

Speaker #2: So if you can just , you know , split that particular thing , I mean , what is the paper manufacturing volumes , manufacturing sales .

Speaker #2: And from that we are able to understand the NSRs, and from this we just wanted to understand—I mean, how are the NSRs performing for our commodity segment?

Speaker #2: The paper segment—how have they shaped in the last two to two and a half quarters? And probably your view on that for the next couple of quarters.

Speaker #3: Thank

Speaker #2: There are new .

Speaker #1: Sorry . Can you . Can you repeat , please ? I'm sorry

Mayank Jindal: Frank?

Ved Krishna: Frank?

Speaker #9: So the paper segment . Yeah , I think we did 117 cruise of sales . Right . So what I assume is there is some some bit of trading activity , which is involved and which is to the tune of 6 to 8 crore as it is reflected in the chat box So if we are able to , you know , provide volume data , the tonnage that we sold or we produced for that particular quarter .

[Analyst 9]: You are on mute, sir.

Mayank Jindal: Yeah. Sorry, can you repeat, please? I am sorry.

[Analyst 9]: The paper segment,

Mayank Jindal: Yeah

[Analyst 9]: I think we did INR 117 crores of sales, right? What I assume is there is some bit of trading activity which is involved, which is to the tune of INR 6 to 8 crores as it is reflected in the chat box. If we are able to provide volume data, the tonnage that we sold or we produced for that particular quarter. If we are able to just divide the sales, I mean, divide sales figure with the tonnage so that we get to the NSR, which is say INR 80 a kg or INR 85 a kg. How has that NSR trend been like for the last many quarters, and your view for the next two quarters, if you have any view on that.

Speaker #9: So we are able to just divide the sales . I mean , divide sales figure with the tonnage . So that we get to the NSR , which is say ₹80 or kg or ₹85 per kg , and how has that NSR trend been like for the last many quarters ?

Speaker #9: And your view for the next two quarters, if you have any view on that.

Speaker #1: See, as far as trading is concerned, because it's still growing, and we are entering and adding on a few more traders into this from the outsourcing and other areas.

Speaker #1: Last quarter We have added . I mean this in this quarter itself , we have we have added few more few more outsourcing facility .

Mayank Jindal: See, as far as trading is concerned, because it is still growing in and we are entering and adding on few more traders into this, the outsourcing. Last quarter, we have added, I mean, in this quarter itself we have added few more outsourcing facility. Our plan is that from our current around 300 tons of the outsourcing trading facility, we will go for 800 to 900 tons a month on the other trading in next quarter. Hope this answers you.

Speaker #1: And our plan is that from our current . Around 300 tons of outsourcing trading facility , we will go . For an 800 to 900 tons a month .

Speaker #1: On the other, trading in the next quarter. Hope this answers you.

Speaker #9: And, sir, what is the NSR?

Speaker #3: This question is . Your question is different anyways . I'll take it up just for time's sake . So . So that's a good point .

Speaker #3: I think Sachin , if we can just add that let's start providing the volume . So that makes it very easy to ascertain the NSR g NSR has been stretched as it has been under stress And that's primarily because of a lot of geopolitical tensions .

[Analyst 9]: And sir, what is the NSR

Ved Krishna: No, his question is different. Anyways, I will take it up just for time's sake. So Mr. Jit, that is a good point. I think, Sachin, if we can just add that, let us start providing the volume. So that makes it very easy to ascertain the NSR. Mr. Jit, NSR has been stretched. It has been under stress, and that is primarily because of a lot of geopolitical tensions. So of course, a lot of our containers got stuck, which are higher NSR when we export. A lot of our containers got stuck because one of our bigger markets is Iran. That is slowly stabilizing and still challenges, but we are at least going in for other countries and other applications.

Speaker #3: So so of course , a lot of our containers got stuck , which were which are higher NSR when we export . So a lot of our containers got stuck because one of our bigger markets is Iran , that slowly stabilizing .

Speaker #3: And , you know , still , still challenges . But we are at least going in for the other countries and other applications .

Speaker #3: I would also go ahead and say that the application development for specialized usages has not been as speedy as , again , we usually are , which also means that the the current .

Ved Krishna: I would also go ahead and say that the application development for specialized usages has not been as speedy as again, we usually are, which also means that the current, you are right, it is more commoditized grades that we are selling. So both those we have to kind of focus and develop. But I think it is a good point that we will just add the volume back to the slides so you will know what the overall average NSR is. There is a huge range of products and what we said before, more than NSR, what we continue to focus as a team is contribution. So contribution and then down to contribution per hour, which is where we kind of really push hard between us. But that said, you are absolutely right, NSR is also a very good indicator on where we are headed. So it is a good point.

Speaker #3: You are right , it is more commoditized grades that we are selling . So . So both those . We have to kind of focus and develop .

Speaker #3: But I think it's a good point that we'll just add the volume back to the slides, so you will know what the overall average NSR is.

Speaker #3: There's a huge range of products. And what we said before, more than what we continue to focus on as a team is contribution.

Speaker #3: So contribution . And then down to contribution per hour , which is where we kind of really push hard between us . But that said , you're absolutely right .

Speaker #3: NSR is also a very good indicator of where we are headed, so it's a good point. It will also keep us on our toes.

Speaker #3: So, thank you again for pointing that out.

Speaker #9: Thank you so much. Thanks.

Speaker #2: Thank you, sir. You can ask your question.

Ved Krishna: It will also keep us on our toes. So thank you again for pointing that out.

Speaker #1: Sir .

Speaker #10: Can I throw some light on the cost of the flexible, compostable, flexible which we will be manufacturing? So we are in the final stages versus the conventional flexible packaging.

[Analyst 9]: Thank you so much. Thanks.

Ved Krishna: Thank you. Mr. Adwait, you can ask your question.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you. Mr. Adwait, you can ask your question.

Speaker #10: It's readily available in the market. Can you shed some light on the cost difference between the two?

[Analyst 10]: Sir, can you throw some light on the cost of the compostable flexible which we will be manufacturing, so we are in the final stages, versus the conventional flexible packaging that is available in the market. Can you throw some weight on the cost difference between the two?

Speaker #3: Absolutely . That's a great question and a very important one as well . So there is no absolute cost . It again , everything varies application to application .

Speaker #3: So if you look at a simple sachet and you, as a consumer, look at different sachets, they'll have different thickness levels—different.

Ved Krishna: Absolutely. That is a great question and a very important one as well. There is no absolute cost. Again, everything varies application to application. If you look at a simple sachet and you as a consumer, you look at different sachets, they will have different thickness levels, different, and from a technical standpoint, different barrier levels, et cetera. So each of them have a different cost parameter. When we look at the benchmarking that we have created, we get down to square meterage. Ultimately, the customer may not say it, but ultimately what they will calculate is the number of chocolates that got packed or the number of tea bags that got created. So what we find in the targeted segment is that petroleum-based substrate is anywhere in between INR 16 to INR 18 a square meter. What we have now targeted is about INR 24.

Speaker #3: And from a technical standpoint different barrier levels etcetera . So each of them have a different cost parameter . When we look at the benchmarking that we have created , we get down to square meter .

Speaker #3: Ultimately, the customer may not say it, but what they will calculate is the number of chocolates that got packed or the number of tea bags that got created.

Speaker #3: So what we find in a in the targeted segment is that petroleum based substrate is anywhere in between 16 to ₹18 . A square meter .

Speaker #3: What we have now targeted is about 24 . So it is still there is a significant gap . And that's part of the reason we are not yet launching a barrier coated substrate .

Speaker #3: We are still kind of looking at finding ways to launch the base . And then continue to work on the chemistry . The reason for the cost is not the base paper , but the high cost of barrier chemicals , which are bio based right now .

Ved Krishna: So there is a significant gap, and that is part of the reason we are not yet launching a barrier-coated substrate. We are still looking at finding ways to launch the base and then continue to work on the chemistry. The reason for the cost is not the base paper, but the high cost of barrier chemicals, which are bio-based right now. So those are very expensive. We are also looking at a lot of strategic alliances where we start getting it manufactured in India. Some of it, we are even discussing people setting up their facilities in our facility, because that will then significantly reduce the cost. The idea is that how do you go down to 18, the same price as a petroleum polymer? Because then the discussion of price shifts entirely to performance, which we feel is more important.

Speaker #3: So, those are very, very expensive. So we are also looking at a lot of strategic alliances where we start getting it manufactured in India.

Speaker #3: Some of it we are even discussing—people setting up their facilities in our facility—because that will then significantly reduce the cost. And the idea is that, how do you go down to 18?

Speaker #3: The same price petroleum polymer , because then the discussion of price shifts entirely to performance , which we feel is more important . And what we see is that , again , similar to the delivery containers , how do you add value in terms of performance vis a vis what they are using today ?

Speaker #3: So that's something that the team continuously ponders on. Yeah. I hope that answers your question.

Ved Krishna: And what we see is that, again, similar to the delivery containers, how do you add value in terms of performance, vis-à-vis what they are using today? So that is something that the team continuously ponders on. I hope that answers your question.

Speaker #10: So in the future, in the long run—so from next year, we'll be manufacturing at a larger scale. Will it affect our margins that much initially, in the primary phase?

Speaker #3: So margins go margins have to be maintained . Whether it's a base flexi base or coated flexi . Both cases . And of course as soon as you go to coating you are adding another CapEx .

[Analyst 10]: So in the future, in the long run, from next year, we will be manufacturing at a larger scale. Will it affect our margins that much initially in the primary phase?

Speaker #3: Also, you're adding another quarter, so the margins have to improve to be able to address that investment as well. So basically, in any business, ultimately, you have to protect margins.

Ved Krishna: So margins have to be maintained, whether it is a FlexiBase or coated Flexi, both cases. And of course, as soon as you go to coating, you are adding another CapEx also, you are adding another coater. So the margins have to improve to also be able to address that investment. Basically, any business, ultimately you have to protect margins. So, we will continue to do that. That is why when I presented my slide on applications, there are numerous applications that you tackle from a standpoint of sales so that you protect the margins. And so you have to have alternates for that. I do not know if there is an easy answer for it, but the fundamental idea is, yes, the margins will have to be protected.

Speaker #3: So, so, so, we will continue to do that, and we will. That's why, when I presented my slide on applications, there are numerous applications that you tackle from a standpoint of sales so that you protect the margins again.

Speaker #3: So you have to have alternates for that. So I don't know if there's an easy answer for it, but the fundamental idea is, yes, the margins will have to be protected.

Speaker #10: So that means we will go from base categories to specialized categories over a period of time, starting from the base.

Speaker #3: Everything we go for is specialized, but more and more, specialization is...

Speaker #10: Yeah , yeah . Okay . Thank you , thank you .

[Analyst 10]: So that means we will go from base categories to specialized categories over a period of time. Starting from base product.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Mr. You can ask a question.

Ved Krishna: I think everything we go for is specialized, but more and more specialized is what I

Speaker #5: Hello .

Speaker #4: Hello . Yes , yes , thank you for letting me ask the question again . Just wanted to confirm , I think in the chat we were saying the target for this is around 500 crores of revenue .

[Analyst 10]: Yeah. Okay. Thank you.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you. Mr. Darshan, you can ask your question.

Speaker #4: Right. So in order to reconfirm that with you, sir, and the tax rate is quite fluctuating. So could you just help us, because I think it's 25% or 22%?

[Analyst 2]: Hello.

[Analyst 7]: Hello.

Ved Krishna: Yes.

[Analyst 2]: Thank you for letting me ask the question again. Just wanted to confirm, I think in the chat we were saying our target for this is around INR 500 crores of revenue, right? Just want to reconfirm that with you, sir. The tax rate is quite fluctuating, so could you just help us? Because I think 25% or 22%, 26%, I think there was an aberration, and before that it was 30%. So could you just reconfirm the revenue guidance that we are planning for this year and the tax rate?

[Analyst 7]: Thank you for letting me ask the question again. Just wanted to confirm, I think in the chat we were saying our target for this is around INR 500 crores of revenue, right? Just want to reconfirm that with you, sir. The tax rate is quite fluctuating, so could you just help us? Because I think 25% or 22%, 26%, I think there was an aberration, and before that it was 30%. So could you just reconfirm the revenue guidance that we are planning for this year and the tax rate?

Speaker #4: I think there was an aberration, and before that, it was 30%. So could you just reconfirm the revenue guidance that we are planning for this year and the tax rate?

Speaker #3: You

Speaker #6: I think in the first quarter, we have done 120. So, whatever has been supplemented in the chat box, 500 seems to be a good revenue guidance.

Ved Krishna: Himanshu?

Speaker #6: Basically, in terms of tandem with the way Shubham specified about Chuck growing and balance before coming into place—as far as the tax rate goes.

Himanshu Kapoor: I think the Q1 we have done 120, so whatever has been supplemented on the chat box, 500 seems to be a good revenue guidance basically in terms of tandem of the way Shubham specified about churn growing and balance PM4 coming into place. As far as the tax rate goes, see, that is not a simple calculation because we earn profits more than INR 10 crores. It is not 22%. It is 22% with a surcharge of 12% and then 4%. So effectively it goes to about 25.69%. But it changes because there are certain adjustments, allowances and disallowances that happened at the time of computation. So the tax rate effectively is about 26% basically, and it varies between 26% and 28%, depending upon the adjustments of taxation, whatever happens in terms of the depreciation rate changes, in terms of some payments of interest which have not been made.

Speaker #6: See, that's not a simple calculation because we earn profits of more than ten crores. It's not 22%. It's 22% with a surcharge of 12%.

Speaker #6: And then 4% . So effectively it goes to about 25.69% . But it changes because there are certain adjustments , allowances and allowances that happened at the time of computation .

Speaker #6: So the tax rate effectively is about 26 percent, basically. And it varies between 26 and 28 percent, depending upon the adjustments of taxation.

Speaker #6: Whatever happens in terms of the depreciation rate, changes in terms of some payments of interest, which have not been made.

Speaker #6: So that is how it differs . But technically we are in a 22% tax regime . But it is not . 22 because if you have a profit of more than ten crores , there is a surcharge of 12% and 4% .

Speaker #6: Education on top of .

Speaker #5: It .

Himanshu Kapoor: That is how it differs. But technically we are in a 22% tax regime, but it is not 22% because if you have a profit of more than INR 10 crores, there is a surcharge of 12% and 4% education cess on top.

Speaker #4: Okay , okay . Fair enough . And just wanted to know like our products , do they qualify for , you know , some kind of , you know , environmental , you know , help , you know , if you're , you know , sometimes , you know , exports , you're doing and , you know , they want more eco friendly products and non plastic products , you know , is that something that , you know , helps us market it better abroad and just want to ask in terms of that also , right .

[Analyst 2]: Okay. Fair enough, sir. I just wanted to know, like our products, do they qualify for some kind of environmental health? If people sometimes export their doing and they want more eco-friendly products and non-plastic products. Is that something that helps us market it better abroad? Just want to ask in terms of debt also, right? For products or company like us, is there lower cost debt available abroad? Have we explored that option?

[Analyst 7]: Okay. Fair enough, sir. I just wanted to know, like our products, do they qualify for some kind of environmental health? If people sometimes export their doing and they want more eco-friendly products and non-plastic products. Is that something that helps us market it better abroad? Just want to ask in terms of debt also, right? For products or company like us, is there lower cost debt available abroad? Have we explored that option?

Speaker #4: For products or companies like us, is there a lower cost that is available abroad? Have we explored that option?

Speaker #6: You are absolutely right . In theory . I mean we were working anyway on the US side , and there was a lot of pick and talk on the lower cost debt that comes into place with these climate funds coming into place .

Speaker #6: But again , the process of all getting all those kinds of lower cost debt is about one year or so . Basically , at the end of the day .

Himanshu Kapoor: You are absolutely right. In theory, we were working anyway on the US side, and there was a lot of pick and talk on the lower cost debt that comes into place with these climate funds coming into place. But again, the process of getting all those kinds of lower cost debt is about one year or so, basically, at the end of the day. So today, I think lower cost debt, when it goes for a replacement from this structure, definitely all these things would be considered at that point of time. But at this point of time, I think for the next about 14, 16 months, we have to only focus on performance basically.

Speaker #6: So now today, I think lower cost debt, when it goes for a replacement from this structure, will definitely be considered at that point in time.

Speaker #6: But at this point of time, I think for the next about 14 to 16 months, we have to only focus on performance.

Speaker #6: Basically .

Speaker #4: No , no , I was meaning when we go for refinance , that can , you know , substantially reduce our cost of debt , right ?

Speaker #4: Whenever we go for .

Speaker #6: Funds , there's also an FX cost . So with today , with FX cost and aging practically , it comes at the same rate , but your point is well noted .

[Analyst 2]: No, I was meaning when we go for refinance, that can substantially reduce our cost of debt, right? Whenever we go for the next round.

[Analyst 7]: No, I was meaning when we go for refinance, that can substantially reduce our cost of debt, right? Whenever we go for the next round.

Speaker #6: I think the finance team will take care of that . Manuj can take a note of that . And they take care of that in the refinance option .

Himanshu Kapoor: When you go for climate funds, there is also an FX cost, Darshan. So today with FX cost and hedging, practically it comes at the same rate, but your point is well noted. I think the finance team will take care of that.

Speaker #4: Yeah , yeah , yeah , that's that's really helpful . So yeah , that's it from me . Thank you so much .

Speaker #2: Thank you, Mr. Raghav. You can go ahead and ask your question.

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: Manoj can take a note of that and we will take care of that in the refinance option.

Speaker #4: Yeah. Thank you for that.

Speaker #5: The patience and the eagerness to answer our questions . Just want to understand a little bit more on the food services piece . So I'm not able to map out what exactly are we manufacturing in house ?

[Analyst 2]: Yeah. That's really helpful, sir. Yeah, that's it from my side. Thank you so much.

[Analyst 7]: Yeah. That's really helpful, sir. Yeah, that's it from my side. Thank you so much.

Ved Krishna: Thank you. Mr. Raghav, you can go ahead and ask your question.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you. Mr. Raghav, you can go ahead and ask your question.

Speaker #5: What are we outsourcing? And, since we want to grow 10x in volumes, what is the plan for what would be in-house manufactured?

[Analyst 3]: Yeah. Thank you for the patience and the eagerness to answer our questions. Just want to understand a little bit more on the food services piece. I am not able to map out what exactly are we manufacturing in-house, what are we outsourcing. Since we want to grow 10x in volumes, what is the plan for what would be in-house manufactured, what would be outsourced? Essentially, we were also talking about geographical diversification of manufacturing in order to reduce the logistics and overhead costs. If you could present an overall picture on currently what is the total volume we are doing, how much of that we are manufacturing and what we are outsourcing, and how do we plan to scale it up as we go to 10x the volumes?

Speaker #5: What would be outsourced? And essentially, like we were also talking about, geographical diversification of manufacturing in order to reduce the logistics and overhead costs.

Speaker #5: So if you could present an overall picture on like currently , what is the total volume ? We are doing ? How much of that we are manufacturing and what we are outsourcing , and how do we plan to scale it up as we go to ten D volumes Yeah , sure .

Speaker #5: Currently, the range of products we offer.

Speaker #4: Manufacturing in-house and outhouse is primarily determined by our mold availability and demand requirements. So, what product is needed in what part of the country—our facilities are obviously located in the North.

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: Yeah, sure. Currently, the range of products we manufacture in-house and out-house is primarily determined by our mold availability and demand requirement. So what product is needed in what part of the country. Our facility is obviously located in the north, so we try to manufacture products which are needed for the north and east Indian market at our own plant. Of course, any new technologies will also get manufactured at our plant. Currently, we are doing around 350 tons of products per month, out of which around 180 to 200 comes from our own plant, and the balance comes from outsourced sites. In the coming two quarters, we will be adding approximately 400 tons of outsourced capacity.

Shubham Tibrewal: Yeah, sure. Currently, the range of products we manufacture in-house and out-house is primarily determined by our mold availability and demand requirement. So what product is needed in what part of the country. Our facility is obviously located in the north, so we try to manufacture products which are needed for the north and east Indian market at our own plant. Of course, any new technologies will also get manufactured at our plant. Currently, we are doing around 350 tons of products per month, out of which around 180 to 200 comes from our own plant, and the balance comes from outsourced sites. In the coming two quarters, we will be adding approximately 400 tons of outsourced capacity.

Speaker #4: So, we try to manufacture products which are needed for the North and East Indian market at our own plant. Of course, any new technologies will also get manufactured at our plant.

Speaker #4: Currently, we are doing around 350 tons of products per month, out of which around 180 to 200 comes from our own plant.

Speaker #4: And the balance comes from our floor sites. In the coming two quarters, we will be adding approximately 400 tons of outsourced capacity.

Speaker #4: This capacity is Pan India , so that will be some additional capacity in the north , some in the west , some in the south and some in the center And that is how actually we optimize our freight costs .

Speaker #4: So and then the product allocation again , of course , depends on the demand . So all export and West requirements and manufactured in the West , South in the South , North in the north .

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: This capacity is tied in India, so there will be some additional capacity in the north, some in the west, some in the south, and some in the center. That is how actually we will optimize our freight costs. Then the product allocation, again, of course, depends on the demand. So all export and west requirements will be manufactured in the west, south in the south, north in the north. So what we manufacture where is primarily driven by where it is needed. So we try to manufacture it closest to the place of demand.

Shubham Tibrewal: This capacity is tied in India, so there will be some additional capacity in the north, some in the west, some in the south, and some in the center. That is how actually we will optimize our freight costs. Then the product allocation, again, of course, depends on the demand. So all export and west requirements will be manufactured in the west, south in the south, north in the north. So what we manufacture where is primarily driven by where it is needed. So we try to manufacture it closest to the place of demand.

Speaker #4: So, what we manufacture, where, is primarily driven by where it is needed. So we try to manufacture it closest to the place of demand.

Speaker #5: What is the plan for manufacturing as we scale up to ten volumes? What part of it will be in-house? What part will be outsourced?

Speaker #4: The majority of it will be outsourced . I would say , as we grow , or probably 20% in the long run will be in-house and the remaining 80% will be outsourced .

[Analyst 3]: What is the plan for the manufacturing as we scale up to 10x the volumes? What part of it will be in-house, what part will be outsourced?

Speaker #5: Then how do we protect our IP if the majority of the volumes are outsourced?

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: The majority of it will be outsourced. I would say as we grow, probably 20% in the long run will be in-house and the remaining 80% will be outsourced.

Shubham Tibrewal: The majority of it will be outsourced. I would say as we grow, probably 20% in the long run will be in-house and the remaining 80% will be outsourced.

Speaker #4: IP is only to do with very specific technologies that we are using, for example, on the delivery containers. So that is what we'll continue to manufacture in-house.

[Analyst 3]: How do we protect our IP if majority of the volumes are outsourced?

Speaker #4: The rest of our range or effectively we use custom molds , custom designs , and all our manufacturers work on exclusive contracts . So we are not doing outsourcing for 10 or 20% capacity of .

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: The IP is only to do with very specific technologies that we're using, for example, on the delivery containers. That is what we'll continue to manufacture in-house. The rest of our range, effectively, we use custom molds, custom designs, and all our manufacturers work on exclusive contracts. We are not doing outsourcing for 10 or 20% capacity of the outsourced manufacturer's capacity. We buy out the entire plant, and it is done on a relatively long-term lease. It's a three-year renewable contract. That's how we kind of protect ourselves.

Shubham Tibrewal: The IP is only to do with very specific technologies that we're using, for example, on the delivery containers. That is what we'll continue to manufacture in-house. The rest of our range, effectively, we use custom molds, custom designs, and all our manufacturers work on exclusive contracts. We are not doing outsourcing for 10 or 20% capacity of the outsourced manufacturer's capacity. We buy out the entire plant, and it is done on a relatively long-term lease. It's a three-year renewable contract. That's how we kind of protect ourselves.

Speaker #4: The outsource manufacturers capacity . We buy out the entire plant and it is done on a relatively long term lease . So it's a three year renewable contract .

Speaker #4: So that's how we kind of protect ourselves.

Speaker #5: So are we saying that, like, if you're outsourcing 80% of the manufacturing, in the long run, the IP will be protected due to these stronger agreements which we have with them?

Speaker #5: Or are we saying that the volume should be 80% largely products without much IP and 20% products with IP, which will be in-house manufactured?

[Analyst 3]: Are we saying that if we are outsourcing 80% of the manufacturing in the long run, the IP will be protected due to these stronger agreements which we have with them? Or are we saying that the volume moves could be 80% largely products without much IP and 20% products with IP, which will be in-house manufactured? Which of the two are we pointing to?

Speaker #5: Which of the two are we pointing to?

Speaker #4: It's a combination of both . So both both statements are true . It's not it's not either or . It's both

Speaker #5: Okay. I hope we get more clarity as the business progresses. And the second question from my side to you was a follow-up to my last line of questioning on the pilot for the flexi-based paper.

Shubham Tibrewal [Business Head: It's a combination of both. Both statements are true. It's not either/or, it's both.

Shubham Tibrewal: It's a combination of both. Both statements are true. It's not either/or, it's both.

Speaker #5: So if you could just, like, whatever you can, share some light on the kind of customers we are doing the pilots with.

[Analyst 3]: Okay. I hopefully get more clarity as the business progresses. The second question from my side to you, Ved, was a follow-up to my last line of questioning on the pilot for the FlexiBase paper. If you could just, whatever you can, share some light on the kind of customers we are doing the pilots with and what are the evaluation parameters and volume for those trials which we are doing.

Speaker #5: And what are the evaluation parameters and volume for those trials which we are doing?

Speaker #3: So the initial pilots that we are doing for the base paper are focused on segments which already use similar base paper. So, say, there is a...

Speaker #3: So you can use, you can think of the paper as anything that is to be coated. So it could be coated with a siliconization.

Ved Krishna: The initial pilots that we are doing for the base paper is focused on segments which already use similar base paper. You can think of the paper as anything that is to be coated. It could be coated with a siliconization, it could be coated with a barrier structure, it could be coated even with a poly-based structure. Anything that is to be coated can be coated on Flexi and you will consume less chemical. That's the simple kind of idea. We are focusing a lot on, say, release application or labeling applications. We are focusing a lot on kind of the bag application that needs heat sealability. Say today you see a sugar bag.

Speaker #3: It could be coated with a barrier structure . It could be coated even with a poly based structure . So . So anything that is to be coated can be coated on flexibles .

Speaker #3: And you will consume less capital, so that's the simple kind of idea. So we are focusing a lot on, say, release application or labeling applications.

Speaker #3: We are focusing a lot on , on kind of the , the bag application that needs heat . Sealability . So say today you see a sugar bag .

Speaker #3: So just a great, good example is today, when you go to a coffee shop, you take a sugar bag, and it is a white or a brown paper, depending on the sugar inside.

Speaker #3: But you don't see anything inside in , in the case , as soon as Pakka launches , its great . You'll be able to see the sugar inside .

Ved Krishna: Just a great good example is today when you go to a coffee shop, you take a sugar bag and it is a white or a brown paper depending on the sugar inside. But you don't see anything inside. In the case, as soon as Pakka launches, it's great, you will be able to see the sugar inside. Of course, the idea is that let's tempt people to create a bag or pouch where there's a see-through property. Just a simple idea like that. Now it's not in our control whether the converter will put a polyethylene on it or not. Our structure will remain compostable, but initially we will not be choosers. We'll provide a structure that is great, and you will consume much lesser whatever you're using for barrier.

Speaker #3: So, of course, the idea is that, let's tempt people to create a bag or pouch where there is a see-through property.

Speaker #3: So just a simple idea like that. So now, it's not in our control whether the converter will put a polyethylene on it or not.

Speaker #3: Our structure will remain compostable, but initially we will not be choosers. We will provide a structure that is great, and you will consume much less of whatever you're using for barrier, and you will get a product where the experience for the customer or the consumer will be way superior.

Speaker #3: So so that's the basic bottom line . We'll be a market grade that will be sold through distributors in any , any application where you need coating .

Ved Krishna: And you'll get a product that experience for the customer or the consumer will be way superior. That's the basic bottom line. We'll be a market grade that will be sold through distributors in any application where you need coating. That's the starting point, and then we keep evolving the product from there to ideally switch completely towards more and more flexible packaging applications.

Speaker #3: So that's the starting point. And then we keep evolving the product from there to ideally switch completely towards more and more flexible packaging applications.

Speaker #5: Understand what is the scale of these pallets we've just last. To sum it up, like the scale of these pilots, which we are.

Speaker #1: Doing scale .

Speaker #3: The , the , the , the , the plant is slated anywhere between 30 to 40,000 tons . So depending on the grade .

Speaker #5: Sorry, the scale of the pilot, which we are doing in August and September.

[Analyst 3]: Understood. What is the scale of these pilots, Mahen? Just last to sum it up. The scale of these pilots which we are doing-

Speaker #3: Oh, that's only how much? Four tons or something is what we have sent.

Ved Krishna: The scale, the plant is slated anywhere between 30,000 to 40,000 tons, depending on the grade.

Speaker #1: Yes, around that—around four to five.

Speaker #3: Tons of pulp .

Speaker #5: Multiple converters .

[Analyst 3]: Sorry, the scale of the pilots which we are doing in August and September.

Speaker #3: So a lot of it goes to waste, but you end up with about two tons of material that you can distribute. And that's just a very small trial.

Ved Krishna: Oh, that is only Mahen, how much? 4 tons or something is what we have sent?

Speaker #5: Understood .

Himanshu Kapoor: Yes, around that. 4 to 5 tons.

Speaker #2: Thank you , thank you , thank you . Okay . We'll take the last question now from Nilu Singh . You can go ahead and ask your question .

Ved Krishna: Four tons of pilot.

[Analyst 3]: Multiple tons.

Ved Krishna: A lot of it goes into waste, but you end up with about 2 tons of material that you can distribute. That is just a very small trial.

Speaker #6: Yeah .

Speaker #5: Thank you. I have one question to ask about the bank charges for any one-off items in this quarter that we paid while repaying the bank.

[Analyst 3]: I understood. Thank you.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you, Mr. Arup. Okay, we will take the last question now from Nilu Singh. You can go ahead and ask your question.

Speaker #6: Yes . All right . Actually , what happens as a result of India's adjustment ? Any prepayment penalty or any processing fees that is paid as a part of the original loan process gets written off over the tenure of the loan .

Nilu Singh: Yeah, thank you. I have one question to ask. On the bank charges, were there one-off anything in this quarter, which we paid while repaying to the bank?

[Analyst 11]: Yeah, thank you. I have one question to ask. On the bank charges, were there one-off anything in this quarter, which we paid while repaying to the bank?

Himanshu Kapoor: Yes, Nilu, you are right. Actually, what happens as a result of Ind AS adjustment, any prepayment penalty or any processing fees that is paid as a part of the original loan process gets written off over the tenure of the new one. Since the bank loans and all were repaid, that is why there was a total amount of roughly about INR 1.53 crores, about INR 1.8 crores, which is coming as a part of finance charges, which has been debited to the profit and loss account in account of accounting standards.

Speaker #6: So, since the bank loans and all were repaid, that is why there was a total amount of roughly about ₹1.53 crore and about ₹1.8 crore, which is coming as a part of finance charges, which has been debited to the profit and loss account in account of accounting standards, basically.

Speaker #5: Yeah . And in the chat box , we just I mean , it was declared that for this year we are estimating the interest cost to be 55 crores .

Speaker #5: And depreciation to be ₹28 crores. If you add this, it becomes around ₹83 crores, out of which for this quarter we have done approximately ₹9 crores.

Nilu Singh: Yeah. In the chat box, it was declared that for this year we are estimating the interest cost to be INR 55 crores and depreciation to be INR 28 crores. Now, if you add this, it becomes around INR 83 crores, out of which for this quarter, we have done approximately INR 9 crores. So that leaves about INR 74 crores of depreciation and interest for the 9-month period now.

[Analyst 11]: Yeah. In the chat box, it was declared that for this year we are estimating the interest cost to be INR 55 crores and depreciation to be INR 28 crores. Now, if you add this, it becomes around INR 83 crores, out of which for this quarter, we have done approximately INR 9 crores. So that leaves about INR 74 crores of depreciation and interest for the 9-month period now.

Speaker #5: So that leaves about 74 crores of a bit of depreciation and interest . For the nine month period . Now . No .

Speaker #6: No , that is different . I mean on the on the chat box , I think the question that I was also reading the answers given by the team , it is talking about interest .

Speaker #6: So interest outflow will not come to the profit and loss account for about till the PM . For commences . Basically . So they had asked what will be the interest outflow .

Himanshu Kapoor: No, that is different. On the chat box, I think the question that I was also reading the answers given by the team, it is talking about interest. Interest outflow will not come to the profit and loss account till the PM4 commences basically. They had asked what will be the interest outflow. What they have written is the interest outflow for this particular year. What will get charged to the profit and loss account will only be once the PM4 commissions basically. Balance will be capitalized as a part of the project cost. The charge to the profit and loss account may roughly be about INR 1.25 crores of working capital on INR 15 crores and maybe 50. The charge to the profit and loss should be close to be about INR 30 to 34 crores basically.

Speaker #6: So what they have written is the interest outflow for this particular year. But what will get charged to the Profit and Loss account will only be once the PM for commissions.

Speaker #6: Basically balance will be capitalized as a part of the project . Cost . So the charge to the profit and loss account we may may be roughly be about about 1.25 crores of working capital among 15 crores , and maybe 50 .

Speaker #6: The charge, profit, and loss should be close to about 30 to 34 crores, basically.

Speaker #5: Okay , okay , then if I go to FY 28 , the in in that year , probably we'll charge it to the p p .

Speaker #6: Yes yes yes yes .

Speaker #5: So that would be about ₹70 crores of interest and ₹50 crores of depreciation. That's ₹120 crores. And we take that as 20% EBITDA.

Nilu Singh: Okay. Then if I go to FY28, in that year probably we will charge it to the P&L?

[Analyst 11]: Okay. Then if I go to FY28, in that year probably we will charge it to the P&L?

Speaker #5: I mean, very optimistically, I don't know. So that would mean we'll touch at least ₹600 crore of sales for FY28 just to break even.

Himanshu Kapoor: Yes.

Nilu Singh: That would be about INR 70 crores of interest and INR 50 crores of depreciation, that is INR 120 crores, and we take that as 20% EBITDA, very optimistically, I do not know. That would mean we will touch at least the INR 600 crore of sales for FY28 just to break even?

[Analyst 11]: That would be about INR 70 crores of interest and INR 50 crores of depreciation, that is INR 120 crores, and we take that as 20% EBITDA, very optimistically, I do not know. That would mean we will touch at least the INR 600 crore of sales for FY28 just to break even?

Speaker #6: See what will happen is 20% of I think at this point of time , the investor feels it's optimistic . But you go to financial year 21 , 22 , 23 , 24 even in the Covid year , the beta was close to about 20% .

Himanshu Kapoor: See, what will happen is, 20% of EBITDA, I think at this point of time, the investor feels it is optimistic, but you go to financial year 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, even in the COVID year, the EBITDA was close to about 20%. When the team has done that in the past, I do not understand why the team cannot repeat that particular kind of performance. But if you say INR 600 crores, I think with today's rack rate, INR 120 crores in this quarter, INR 500 crores is a modest target which the team is taking. Next year, when PM4 is complete, I think even at 60% to 70% of the capacity, it should deliver an additional turnover of between INR 175 to 200 odd crores. If this plant goes up to, say, about INR 450 odd crores, then we are looking at a top line of roughly about INR 700 crores minimum in FY28.

Speaker #6: So, when the team has done that in the past, I don't understand why the team cannot repeat that particular kind of performance.

Speaker #6: But if you say 600 crores , I think with the today's rack rate , 120 crores , I mean , in this quarter , 500 crores is a modest target which the team is taking next year .

Speaker #6: When PM four is complete, I think even at 60% to 70% of the capacity, it should deliver an additional turnover of between 175 to 200 crores.

Speaker #6: So, if this plant goes up to, say, about ₹450 crores, then we are looking at a top line of roughly about ₹700 crores.

Speaker #6: Minimum in FY 28 . And 700 crores in FY 28 . On 20% , it will not be neck to neck . Basically .

Speaker #5: Okay . And this year , how much was the exports for the quarter ? One . In terms of value or volume , whichever way

Himanshu Kapoor: 700 crore in FY28 on 20%, it will not be neck to neck, basically.

Speaker #3: 27% .

Speaker #5: 27% . Yeah , that's it from my side . Thank you . Best of luck .

Nilu Singh: Okay. This year, how much was the exports for Q1 in terms of value or volume?

[Analyst 11]: Okay. This year, how much was the exports for Q1 in terms of value or volume?

Speaker #2: Thank you . And for run out of time . Also . So thank you for all your questions . With any closing comments from your side .

Speaker #3: So thank you once again for having confidence in us. What you would have noticed is that the team is working really hard to keep moving towards the idea of regenerative solutions and leaving the planet cleaner.

Ved Krishna: 27.

Nilu Singh: Okay. 27%. That's it from my side. Thank you. Best of luck.

[Analyst 11]: Okay. 27%. That's it from my side. Thank you. Best of luck.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you. We have run out of time also. Thank you for all your questions. Any closing comments from your side?

Speaker #3: We'll continue our efforts in terms of volume growth, in terms of maximizing our profitability, and ultimately to create shareholder value. So thank you for your trust in us.

Ved Krishna: No, thank you once again for having confidence in us. What you would have noticed, the team is working really hard to keep working towards the idea of regenerative solutions and leaving the planet cleaner. We will continue our efforts in terms of volume growth, in terms of maximizing our profitability and ultimately to create shareholder value. So thank you for your trust in us. We will continue to work hard to deliver on our promises. Thank you all so much.

Speaker #3: We'll continue to work hard to deliver on our promises. Thank you all so much.

Speaker #2: Thank you everyone .

Speaker #3: Thank you everyone .

Speaker #5: Thank you .

Speaker #1: Any question ?

Speaker #5: Remain unanswered. You can send it to me over email.

Pranay Pasricha: Thank you, everyone.

Himanshu Kapoor: Thank you, everyone.

Ved Krishna: Thank you.

Ved Krishna: Thank you. If there was any question remaining unanswered, you can send me over email. Thank you so much.

Himanshu Kapoor: If there was any question remaining unanswered, you can send me over email. Thank you so much.

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Q1 2027 Pakka Ltd Earnings Call

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