Q2 2026 Sofina SA Earnings Call

September 3, 2026

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to the Sofina Half-Year Results Investor Call. You have all received the half-year report and the press release and investor presentation yesterday after closing. Today, the idea is that we ask our CEO, Harold Boël, to take you through that presentation that we posted online briefly. Afterwards, we will open up for Q&A if there are any analyst questions. If you do have a question on the webcast, you should raise your hand. Then we can see and unmute you. For the people in the room, obviously, I can just ask you too if you have a question. With that, let me hand over to Harold to say a few words about the results and go through the investor presentation.

Dirk Delmartino: Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to the Sofina Half-Year Results Investor Call. You have all received the half-year report and the press release and investor presentation yesterday after closing. Today, the idea is that we ask our CEO, Harold Boël, to take you through that presentation that we posted online briefly. Afterwards, we will open up for Q&A if there are any analyst questions. If you do have a question on the webcast, you should raise your hand. Then we can see and unmute you. For the people in the room, obviously, I can just ask you too if you have a question. With that, let me hand over to Harold to say a few words about the results and go through the investor presentation.

Speaker #1: Good afternoon, everybody, and welcome to the Sofina Half-Year Results Investor Call. You have all received the half-year reports and the press release on the investor presentation yesterday after closing.

Speaker #1: So, today's idea is that we ask our CEO, Harold Borrell, to take you through that presentation that we posted online, briefly, I should say. Then, afterwards, we'll open up for Q&A if there are any analyst questions.

Speaker #1: If you do have a question on the webcast, you should raise your hand, and then we can see and unmute you. For the people in the room, obviously I can just ask you if you have a question. So with that, let me hand over to Harold to say a few words about the results and go through the investor presentation.

Speaker #2: Thank you. Thank you, Dirk. And welcome, everybody. We're happy to have you again on our conference calls. I wanted to walk you through the investor presentation we have prepared, and then have some time for Q&A.

Harold Boël: Thank you, Dirk, and welcome everybody. Happy to have you again on one of our conf calls. I wanted to walk you through the investor presentation we had prepared and have some time for Q&A. Our mission has not changed. It is one we shared with you last year when we did the capital raise. If I look with the benefit of hindsight one year down the line, I think many of the things that we had foreseen in the capital raise have come to pass. We are, generally speaking, in line where we wanted to be, though indeed, we are only six months into the year. As you all know, investor time is a long time. If we look at the highlights of the H1, variations on the theme. We are still looking at five sectors.

Speaker #2: Our mission hasn't changed; it is the one we shared with you last year when we did the capital raise. And if I look, with the benefit of hindsight, one year down the line, I think many of the things that we had foreseen in the capital raise have come to pass.

Speaker #2: And we are, generally speaking, in line with where we wanted to be, though indeed we're only six months into the year. And as you all know, investor time is a long time.

Speaker #2: But if we look at the highlights of the first half-year, we see variations on the theme. So we're still looking at five sectors. RNAV has progressed and has grown, and we'll go into the details of where that comes from.

Harold Boël: Our NAV has progressed and has grown. We will go into the details of where that comes from, with both our investment styles covering the three most important economic regions of the world, which is the US and North America, Europe, and Asia. Our sustainability commitments stay as strong as ever. Our wide panel of relationships, and we will get into those details as well, is on the same footing with 90 portfolio companies and 90 general partners with whom we entertain long-term relationships. I will skip over the history. We had last year the time to go into it and to explain how our history defined who we were. One year down the line, all these elements stay true and stay at the heart of who we are and therefore what we do.

Speaker #2: With both our investment styles covering the three most important economic regions of the world, which are the US and North America, Europe, and Asia.

Speaker #2: Our sustainability commitments stay as strong as ever. And our wide panel relationship—and we'll get into those details as well—is on the same footing with 19 portfolio companies, 19 general partners with whom we entertain long-term relationships.

Speaker #2: If I may, then I will skip over the history. We had last year the time to go into it and to explain how our history defines who we were.

Speaker #2: One year down the line, all these elements stay true and stay at the heart of who we are and, therefore, what we do. Now, if I look specifically at the first half of the year, what we had seen happening in the second half of '25—with momentum in the market, and when I say momentum, I mean transaction intensity—continues to grow.

Harold Boël: Now if I look at specifically the H1, what we had seen happening in the H2 of 2025, with a momentum in the market. When I mean momentum, I mean transaction intensity continues to grow. The lessons of 2021, 2022 have not been lost onto the market. The attractiveness of long-term permanent capital is there and is strong and allows us to gain access to competitive situation and sometimes even to create transactions. One of the things about Sofina's long-term investment thesis is a belief that innovation is a factor of value creation in the economic growth. I think with everything happening in the digital and the technological world, this is as true as ever, and we are capitalizing on that.

Speaker #2: But the lessons of '21 and '22 have not been lost on the market, and the attractiveness of long-term, permanent capital is there and is strong. It allows us to gain access to competitive situations, and sometimes even to create transactions.

Speaker #2: One of the things about Sofina's long-term investment thesis is a belief that innovation is a factor in value creation, and maybe economic growth. I think with everything happening in the digital and technological world, this is as true as ever, and we are capitalizing on that.

Harold Boël: For us, we've had an active deal flow, both on the investment and divestment side, and you can see a large number of transactions. These are, for the most part, with the exception of Cerealis, what we call the Sofina Growth investment, which means smaller tickets into fast-growing companies with a sharper risk-reward profile, higher expectations of IRRs and multiples, but also higher risks. To dive right into it, there is the emergence of a common theme in our digital transformation sector is cybersecurity. Cybersecurity attacks are on the rise, and AI is a strong enabler of these. We all see it in our own organization, the extent to which we expose and subject to these attacks, and therefore, there is the need for being just as innovative on the defense side.

Speaker #2: had a active deal flow. Both on the investment and divestment side. And you can see a number of a large number of transactions. These are for the most part, with the exception of Sergey Elise, what we call the Sofina growth investors, investment, which means smaller tickets into fast-growing companies with a more I would say with a sharper risk-reward profile.

Speaker #2: Higher expectations of IRRs and multiples, but also higher risks. And to dive right into it, there is the emergence of a common theme in our digital transformation sector: cybersecurity.

Speaker #2: Cybersecurity attacks are on the rise, and AI is a strong enabler of these. We all see it in our own organization, the extent to which we are exposed and subject to these attacks.

Speaker #2: And therefore, there is the need for being just as innovative on the defense side. The investment we had done a year and a half to two years ago in Cyera is in that length.

Harold Boël: The investment we had done a year and a half, two years ago in Cyera is in that length. The investment we did in Expo and in Eye Security are starting to cover the value chain. What we do when we approach a sector is to look at the whole value chain of a given sector or a given thematic in this case, and to identify the places where we think the risk rewards are the most interesting. This is ongoing work, and we're happy with our exposure to this growing theme.

Speaker #2: The investments we made in Expo and in iSecurity are starting to cover the value chain. What we do when we approach a sector is to look at the whole value chain of a given sector—a given thematic, in this case—and identify the places where we think the risk-reward is the most interesting.

Speaker #2: So this is ongoing work, and we're happy with our exposure to this growing theme. At the other end of the spectrum, I would call our investment in Serigy Elise, which is an investment with a Portuguese family that owns one of the leading Iberic producers of pasta.

Harold Boël: At the other end of the spectrum, I would call our investment in Cerealis, which is an investment with a Portuguese family that owns one of the leading Iberic producers of pasta based on the thesis of best in class manufacturing in their segment, and therefore a possibility to gain market share through market consolidation in the Iberic Peninsula. Based on the proprietary relationship that we have developed for actually more than 10 years. This doesn't mean that our teams have not been active on the exit side. The exit environment is more difficult because of rising interest rates or interest rates having risen since the low points of the beginning of the decennia. There is less liquidity in the system, and therefore capital circulation is somewhat more challenging. That being said, we still exited the remaining position we had in Hanwha Consumer.

Speaker #2: Based on the thesis of best-in-class manufacturing in their segment, and therefore a possibility to gain market share through market consolidation in the Iberian Peninsula.

Speaker #2: And based on the proprietary relationship that we have developed for actually more than 10 years, this doesn't mean that our teams have not been active.

Speaker #2: On the exit side, the exit environment is more difficult. There is, because of rising interest rates—or heavy interest rates having risen since the low points at the beginning of the decade—less liquidity in the system, and therefore, capital circulation is somewhat more challenging.

Speaker #2: That being said, we still exited the remaining position we had in Hanaza, our consumer. This was an investment we had made in 2020 for a company that got IPOed a year and a half ago, and we sold our remaining stake this spring.

Harold Boël: This was an investment we had done in 2020 for a company that got IPO-ed a year and a half ago, and we sold our remaining stake this spring. SES, that was a historical position, and that was really very small tail end, and Salto Systems, where we announced the recomposition of the share ownership. Again, an investment from vintage 2020. Very successful, and we're happy that a new shareholder is coming on board to continue that story. That transaction is not yet closed, so we're pending regulatory approvals. We expect it will close in the H2 of this year. We've also seen some activity within the private equity portfolio, and that has led us to the decision of sharing with you the see-through composition of that portfolio.

Speaker #2: SAS, that was a historical position, and that was really a very, very small tail end. And Salto System, where we announced the recomposition of the shareholdership—again, an investment from vintage 2020—very successful, and we're happy that new shareholders are coming on board to continue that story.

Speaker #2: So, even in this— and that transaction is not yet closed, so we're pending regulatory approvals. We expect it will close in the second half of this year.

Speaker #2: We've also seen some activity within the private equity portfolio, and that has led us to the decision to share with you the see-through composition of that portfolio.

Speaker #2: So, in the same way we do the top 10 direct investments, we do the top 10 indirect holdings, and we'll zoom in on that. And, as I said, increased momentum.

Harold Boël: In the same way we do the top 10 direct investment, we do the top 10 indirect holdings, and we will zoom on that. As I said, increased momentum, we see it in the growth in VC space with increased deployments and increased commitments. Funds are being deployed faster, therefore GPs are coming faster to market. All this lands at a portfolio of EUR 11.5 billion. This is after payment of the dividends, so a payout of, I think, EUR 130 million that happened in May, and a NAV per share that rises to EUR 326. If you double-click on that, you will have seen that value creation is mostly on the fund side, also helped by a reversal of the Forex headwinds that we had last year. Remember, very strong Forex headwind with a rapidly declining dollar.

Speaker #2: We see it in the growth in the VC space, with increased deployments and increased commitments. Funds are being deployed faster; therefore, GPs are coming to market more quickly.

Speaker #2: All this results in a portfolio of €11.5 billion. This is not the payment of a dividend, so there is a payout of, I think, €130 million.

Speaker #2: That happens in May, and a NAV per share that rises to 326. If you double-click on that, you will have seen that value creation is mostly on the fund side.

Speaker #2: Also helped by a reversal of the Forex headwinds that we had last year. Remember, very, very strong Forex headwind with a rapidly declining dollar.

Speaker #2: Some of that has been clawed back, and that has an influence on the private funds business, but they've done a good job. That piece of the portfolio has done a good job on value creation itself.

Harold Boël: Some of that has been clawed back, and that has an influence on the private funds business, but they have done a good job. That piece of the portfolio has done a good job on value creation itself. A little more muted on the direct investment side, as I commented in the press release. What we also see is that when you are not in tech, and we have a diversified portfolio, so we are not only in technology and digital. Affordability issues in developing economies, we see it as consumer demand, but we also see it in the healthcare sector where pricing pressure and reimbursement pressure is getting stronger. All means that the portfolio and the perspective of maybe a rekindling of inflation following the war in the Gulf is putting some downward pressures on the multiple side.

Speaker #2: A little more muted on the direct investment side. As I commented in the press release, what we also see is that when you are not in tech—and we have a diversified portfolio, so we are not only in technology and digital—affordability issues in developing economies.

Speaker #2: We see it as consumer demand, but we also see it in the healthcare sector, where pricing pressure and reimbursement pressure are getting stronger. All of this means that the portfolio and the perspective of maybe a rekindling of inflation following the war in the Gulf is putting some downward pressure on the multiple side.

Speaker #2: The underlying growth of the portfolio continues, but we see that the macroeconomic conditions are—I wouldn't say they're difficult, but they're not as easy as they have been in the past.

Harold Boël: The underlying growth of the portfolio continues, but we see that the macroeconomic conditions are, I would not say they are difficult, but they are not as easy as they have been in the past. With that, we can then look at what it means in terms of numbers. I talked about the 11.5. You see that the distribution is somewhat more skewed towards the private funds. We were roughly a 55/45 balance. Now it is more like a 50/50. The dollar plays a role. Roughly speaking, the two main legs of our strategy have equal weight. This is the way it has been a little more one side or the other for the past years, but this is coherent with previous experience. A rise of NAV per share, a widening of the discount.

Speaker #2: With that, we can then look at what it means in terms of numbers. I talked about the 11.5. You will see that the distribution is somewhat more skewed towards the private funds.

Speaker #2: We were roughly a 55/45 balance, and now it's more like 50/50. The dollar plays a role. Roughly speaking, the two main legs of our strategy have equal weight, and this is the way it's been—a little more on one side or the other for the past years—but this is coherent with previous experience.

Speaker #2: A rise of the NAV per share. A widening of the discount. If you take the share price at the end of June—so we try to compare the date of the NAV with the date of the share price—in the meantime, the share price has risen, and I think it now stands at 348.

Harold Boël: If you take the share price at the end of June, so we try to compare the date of the NAV with the date of the share price. In the meantime, the share price has risen, and I think it now stands at EUR 348 the last time I looked. So that discount has narrowed somewhat, but we are still in the 20s, versus as you know, historical average, which is between 15% and 20%. I am stating facts, not making comments here. Our net cash position has moved to a net debt position with a loan to value of 1.9%. Remember, when we did the capital raise and the bond issue last year, we said the purpose was to deploy those monies. We said it should take 3 years, but with all precautions in that it is saying it could be faster, it could be slower.

Speaker #2: The last time I looked, that discount had narrowed somewhat, but we're still in the 20s, versus, as you know, the historical average, which is between 15 and 20.

Speaker #2: I'm stating facts, not making comments here. Our net cash position has moved to a net debt position, with a loan-to-value of 1.9%. And remember, when we did the capital raise and the bond issue last year, we said the purpose was to deploy those monies, and we said it should take three years.

Speaker #2: But with all precautions in that, it's saying it could be faster, it could be slower. But with a view of having net leverage on the balance sheet to the tune of between 5% and 10%, and that was coherent with the strong rating of A-minus that we had received from Standard & Poor's.

Harold Boël: But with a view of having net leverage on the balance sheet to the tune of between 5% and 10%, that was coherent with the strong rating of A- that we received from S&P Global Ratings. At 1.9, we are on the way there. I am making no comments on the way it is going to happen because at these measuring moments, it really depends on a transaction has been signed and has not closed yet. You do not have the cash, you still have the asset, or vice versa when you are investing. So when you take these pictures at specific moments at quarters, you can have some volatility there. I would say our capital deployment and moving towards this level of LTV, in other words, accessing those investment opportunities, all this is going roughly according to what we had in mind when we did the capital raise last year.

Speaker #2: At 1.9, while on the way there, I'm making no comments on the way it's going to happen because when you're at these measuring moments, it really, really depends on whether the transaction has been signed. It hasn't closed yet—you don't have the cash; you still have the asset.

Speaker #2: Or vice versa when you are investing. So, when you take these pictures at specific moments, at quarter end, you can have some volatility there.

Speaker #2: But we are, I would say, our capital deployment and moving towards this level of LTV—in other words, accessing those investment opportunities—all of this is going roughly according to what we had in mind when we did the capital raise.

Speaker #2: Last year. If I move on, we have a split between geographies and sectors. I will spare you going into those details. Please feel free to ask questions, and that information is for you to give you an idea of what's inside the portfolio—to give you a shape of what the forest looks like.

Harold Boël: If I move on, we have a split between geographies and sectors. I will spare you going into those details. Please feel free to ask questions, and that information is for you to give you an idea of what is inside the portfolio, give you a shape of what the forest looks like. Key financial indicators, again, the essential ones are the NAV, the NAV per share. We have the detailed numbers. You, of course, have the detailed numbers in our financial H1 report. Our Head of Finance, Clément, is on the call, and if there is a specific question, he would be happy to take it. Likewise, for these numbers, if I look down at the value creation in the portfolio, we see that the value creation stands at 8% with a tailwind of the currency and a reasonably strong market impact.

Speaker #2: Key financial indicators—again, the essential ones are the NAV and the NAV per share—but we have the detailed numbers. You, of course, have the detailed numbers in our financial half-year report.

Speaker #2: And our Head of Finance, Clément, is on the call, and if there is a specific question, he'd be happy to take it. Likewise, for these numbers, if I look down at the value creation in the portfolio, we see that the value creation stands at 8%.

Speaker #2: With a tailwind from the currency and a reasonably strong market impact, if we double-click to see where that comes from, we see it comes essentially from the funds business, because the direct business, for the reasons that I've explained, remains—it's flat for all practical purposes, with a very small currency impact.

Harold Boël: If we double-click to see where that comes from, we see it comes essentially from the funds business, because the direct business, for the reasons that I have explained, is flat for all practical purposes with a very small currency impact. These are mostly the USD. The EUR is probably the predominant currency in our direct investments. What we see is that the performance impact, i.e., growth of sales, growth of EBITDA, growth of cash flows, and so on and so forth. This one remains positive, but we have seen on the side of peers and multiples some compression there, some market impact that has taken some pressure on that. The top 10 investments, not many changes, maybe Cognita moving rank 2.

Speaker #2: These are mostly the dollar. The euro is probably the predominant currency in our direct investments. But we see, and that's, I think, some of the qualitative indicator, because these numbers from permanently moving portfolio are hard to pinpoint with accounting accuracy.

Speaker #2: But what we see is that the performance impact—that is, growth of sales, growth of EBITDA, growth of cash flows, and so on and so forth—this remains positive.

Speaker #2: But we've seen, on the side of peers and multiples, some compression there—some market impact that has taken its toll and put some pressure on that.

Speaker #2: The top 10 investments—there haven’t been many changes, maybe Cognita moving around to two, and Cognita has activities in the Middle East. There is pressure on affordability in developing countries in Europe as well as in Asia.

Harold Boël: Cognita with activities in the Middle East, and with pressure on affordability in developing countries in Europe, but also in Asia, has had a tougher time to grow. The company is doing well, but the growth is not as high as it was. When we do the valuation, that has an immediate impact. Other companies are doing quite well and in the top 10, there is no particular flash or worry point. Top 10 of our GPs. That list has not changed much. I think Lightspeed Venture Partners might have moved up versus HongShan, the former Sequoia Capital China, but the differences are small. This list reads also as the people who have time and time again identified the winners, identified what Sequoia Capital likes to call the legendary companies, the epoch-defining companies. It has happened in this technology cycle as it has happened in the past.

Speaker #2: It has had a tougher time to grow. Companies are doing well, but the growth is not as high as it was. And when we do the valuation, that has an immediate impact.

Speaker #2: Other companies are doing quite well. And in the top 10, there are no particular flash or worry points—top 10 of our GPs.

Speaker #2: That list hasn't changed much. I think Lightspeed might have moved up versus Hongshan, the former Sequoia China, but these differences are small.

Speaker #2: And this list also reads as the people who have, time and time again, identified the winners—identified what Sequoia likes to call the legendary companies, the epic, defining companies—and it has happened in this technology cycle as it has happened in the past.

Speaker #2: I drew on Sofina's board more than 20 years ago, and on my first audit committee, we spoke about the distribution that we were getting from Google from the IPO of Google back in 2004.

Harold Boël: I joined Sofina's board more than 20 years ago, and on my first audit committee, we spoke about the distribution that we were getting from the IPO of Google back in 2004. This has been really a constant in our portfolio and one of the pillars of our strategy. To an extent such that we decided, given the importance that it had and given our everyday improving ability to handle large amounts of unstructured data. We have data coming from a huge variety of sources, but we are able now to handle it in a way that we can share this with you. This is on a look-through basis, the top 10 in the portfolio with plenty of disclaimers and small characters. That is the limits of the exercise. The difficulty is that this is based on GP reports.

Speaker #2: So this has really been a constant in our portfolio and one of the pillars of our strategy. To an extent such that we decided, given the importance that it had, and given the everyday improving ability to handle large amounts of unstructured data—we have data coming from a huge variety of sources—but we are able now to handle it in a way that we can share this with you.

Speaker #2: And so this is, on a look-through basis, the top 10 in the portfolio—with plenty of disclaimers and small print. So that's the limit of the exercise, the difficulty.

Speaker #2: This is based on GP reports. We want, of course, to base this on very strong data. The GP reports don't all arrive on time for the closing of the books.

Harold Boël: We want to, of course, base it on very strong data. The GP reports do not all arrive on time for the closing of the books. That is something that has been shared with you as well. When for a given GP, we do not have the latest reports, we have to use the one before. The consolidation to get the look-through basis is also based on the detailed information of the GPs, and that is something that comes in a second order. We have the total value of our position, and we use that to close the account, but to have to see how this breaks down into the different constituent companies. In other words, there are different reporting dates, and if everything was pulled equal, the order in there might be different. The total impact on the total P2 NAV would not change.

Speaker #2: That's something that has been shared with you as well. And when, for a given GP, we don't have the latest reports, we have to use the one from before.

Speaker #2: The consolidation to get the look-through basis is also based on the detailed information of the GPs, and that is something that comes in as a second-order consideration.

Speaker #2: So we have the total value of our position, and we use that to close the account. But we have to see how this breaks down into the different constituent companies.

Speaker #2: So, in other words, they're different reporting dates, and if everything was pulled equally, the order in there might be different. The total impact on the—sorry—the total P2NAV wouldn't change.

Speaker #2: So that one is strong, but the relative order is there. So the point of this is to show and to identify also the companies through which we invested, and to give you a qualitative, more than quantitative, feel of the relative sizes—one versus the other.

Harold Boël: That one is stronger the relative orders there. The point of this is to show and to identify also the companies through which we invested, and to give you a qualitative, more than quantitative feel of the relative sizes, one versus the other. So, a fair amount of caveat, and I take the opportunity to give them love. But we still think it is a useful indication. If I move forward, the detailed investments, I think I have talked about, so you can see good coverage of the different regions and increased deal flow coming from Asia. Asia had had a more difficult time in 2024 and beginning 2025. Now deal flow is picking up again, and we are happy to have invested in some new exciting companies there. Also a balance between new investments and follow-on.

Speaker #2: So, a fair amount of caveats, and I take the opportunity to give them aloud. But we still think it's useful—it's a useful indication.

Speaker #2: If I move forward, the detailed investments I think I've talked about. So, you can see good coverage of the different regions and increased deal flow coming from Asia.

Speaker #2: Asia had had a more difficult time in the years '24 and the beginning of '25. Now, deal flow is picking up again, and we're happy to have invested in some new, exciting companies there.

Speaker #2: And also a balance between new investments and follow-on. We believe, of course, when the company is doing well and when the original thesis is being validated, that putting more money to work in good conditions in existing companies is something where, theoretically, the risk-return should be better than the new investment because we know the sector, we know the company, we know the people, and so we can move with a higher degree of trust.

Harold Boël: We believe, of course, when the company is doing well and when the original thesis is being validated, that putting more money to work in good conditions in existing companies is something where theoretically the risk-return should be better than a new investment because we know the sector, we know the company, we know the people, and so we can move with a higher degree of trust. So it is something we have done, and a fair amount of the investments done in the H1 are coming from follow-on investments. Divestments, fewer, with a very significant one in Salto, but that one is pending closing. Some distributions from Lenskart that have been IPO'd last year, and CSI talked about. Then the post-closing events, was Salto's sale that was closed in July.

Speaker #2: But it's something we've done, and a fair amount of the investments made in the first half of the year are coming from follow-on investments.

Speaker #2: Divestments, fewer. With a very significant one in Saldo, but that one is pending closing. Some distributions from Lenskart, which IPO'd last year, and MamaEarth and SCS I talked about.

Speaker #2: And then the post-closing events were Saldo's sale, which was closed in July. An add-on investment in Scalable, where we invested last year, was a sort of consolidation of the cap table, and a small capture rate where we took part.

Harold Boël: An add-on investment in Scalable, where we invested in last year, was a sort of consolidation of the cap table, and a small cap rate where we took part. And in Twin, also one of our digital health companies. A new investment in Cyera, which is our first investment in Italy, if I am not mistaken. It is a company specializing in digital security on the transistor itself, on the chip itself, so etched in. It is a company based in Italy and in Rome, which is not the first thing you think about when you think about tech companies. But it is an Italian founding team, very competitive deal, and our European long-term supportive shareholder profile enabled us to be in the lead of that transaction together with a fund that we knew.

Speaker #2: And in Twin, also one of our digital health companies. And a new investment in Exom, which is our first investment in Italy, if I'm not mistaken.

Speaker #2: And it's a company specializing in security, digital security on the transistor itself, on the chip itself. So etched in. And it's a company based in Italy of in Italy and in Rome of which is not the first thing you think about when you think about tech companies, but it's an Italian founding team very competitive deal.

Speaker #2: And our European long-term supportive shareholder profile enabled us to be in the lead of that transaction, together with the fund that we knew. So we will see in the coming years if this is a successful investment, but it will certainly be a competitive one, and we're happy to have signed.

Harold Boël: We will see in the coming years if this is a successful investment, but it was certainly a competitive one and that we are happy to have signed. As I said, Salto is pending closing. Regulatory conditions apply, but I do not see any issue. I think it is going through the motion. Should close in the H2 of the year. With that, the usual disclaimers, and I will be happy to take questions.

Speaker #2: And as I said, Saldo and Saldo is pending closing—regulatory conditions apply—but I don't see any issue. I think it's going through the motion.

Speaker #2: Should close in the second half of the year. And with that, the usual disclaimers, and I'll be happy to take questions.

Speaker #1: Thank you very much, Harold. For the people on the call, if you would like to ask a question, it's best to raise your hand.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Thank you very much, Harold. For the people on the call, if you would like to ask a question, it is best to raise your hand, and then we will see that, and we will unmute your line, and then you can ask your question. I think Michiel de Klerk at Corteva has already done that because he is in my speaker queue. We also have people in the room here. So, give me a sign if you want to ask questions. But maybe I will first go to Michiel de Klerk. We will unmute you and then you can go ahead and ask your question.

Dirk Delmartino: Thank you very much, Harold. For the people on the call, if you would like to ask a question, it is best to raise your hand, and then we will see that, and we will unmute your line, and then you can ask your question. I think Michiel Declercq at KBC has already done that because he is in my speaker queue. We also have people in the room here. So, give me a sign if you want to ask questions. But maybe I will first go to Michiel Declercq. We will unmute you and then you can go ahead and ask your question.

Speaker #1: And then we will see that, and we will unmute your line, and then you can ask your question. I think Michiel, the clerical service has already done that because he's in my speaker queue.

Speaker #1: And we also have people in the room here, so give me a sign if you want to ask a question. But maybe I'll first go to Michiel, the cleric.

Speaker #1: We will unmute you, and then you can go ahead and ask your question.

Speaker #2: Yes, hi, Michiel, the clerk from KBC Securities. Thank you for the presentation, Harold. I had two questions. You mentioned during the call that the exit environment is becoming a bit more difficult due to the rising interest rates.

Michiel de Klerk: Yes. Hi, Michiel de Klerk from KBC Securities. Thank you for the presentation, Harold. I had two questions. You mentioned during the call that the exit environment is becoming a bit more difficult due to the rising interest rates. I was wondering, is this impacting your capital allocation policy? Are you being a bit more cautious now, or do you see valuation rules going down? How are opportunities going? A bit around that, please. Then secondly, on the bridge, we saw some good underlying performance of the direct stakes in terms of operational performance. A bit of multiple pressure. You mentioned there the war that is going on, of course, but can you be a bit more specific in which sectors you saw most of the multiple compression, given that in general markets recovered already by the end of June? So that would be interesting. Maybe a final one.

Michiel Declercq: Yes. Hi, Michiel Declercq from KBC Securities. Thank you for the presentation, Harold. I had two questions. You mentioned during the call that the exit environment is becoming a bit more difficult due to the rising interest rates. I was wondering, is this impacting your capital allocation policy? Are you being a bit more cautious now, or do you see valuation rules going down? How are opportunities going? A bit around that, please. Then secondly, on the bridge, we saw some good underlying performance of the direct stakes in terms of operational performance. A bit of multiple pressure. You mentioned there the war that is going on, of course, but can you be a bit more specific in which sectors you saw most of the multiple compression, given that in general markets recovered already by the end of June? So that would be interesting. Maybe a final one.

Speaker #2: I was wondering, is this impacting your capital allocation policy? Are you being a bit more cautious now, or do you see valuation goals going down?

Speaker #2: How are, yeah, opportunities going a bit around that, please? And then secondly, on the bridge, we saw some good underlying performance of the direct trades in terms of operational performance.

Speaker #2: Bit of multiple pressure. You mentioned there the war that's going on, of course, but can you be a bit more specific in which sectors you saw most of the multiple compression, given that in general, markets recovered already by the end of June?

Speaker #2: So that would be interesting. And maybe a final one—I highly appreciate the increased color on the indirect exposure of your funds. In the footnotes, I also read that it's a bit of an aggregate, and I was just wondering—I assume that maybe several funds use different valuations for several stakes.

Michiel de Klerk: I highly appreciate the increased color on the indirect exposure of your funds. In the footnotes, I also read that it's a bit of an aggregate. I was just wondering, I assume that maybe several funds use different valuations for several stakes. Can you be a bit more specific if there is a big difference here that you are seeing, or let's say for Anthropic, for example, is the breakdown that you give a bit of a lagging indicator?

Michiel Declercq: I highly appreciate the increased color on the indirect exposure of your funds. In the footnotes, I also read that it's a bit of an aggregate. I was just wondering, I assume that maybe several funds use different valuations for several stakes. Can you be a bit more specific if there is a big difference here that you are seeing, or let's say for Anthropic, for example, is the breakdown that you give a bit of a lagging indicator?

Speaker #2: Can you be a bit more specific if there is a big difference here that you are seeing? Or, let's say for Anthropic, for example, is the breakdown that you gave...

Speaker #2: A bit of a lagging indicator. That will be a bit my question—how big are these valuation differences in the funds? Thank you.

Harold Boël: Yeah

Harold Boël: Yeah.

Michiel de Klerk: That will be a bit my question, how big these valuation differences are in the funds? Thank you.

Michiel Declercq: That will be a bit my question, how big these valuation differences are in the funds? Thank you.

Speaker #1: Yes, thank you, Michiel. Excellent questions. So yes, that's a trend we see generally—that because of rising interest rates, there is less liquidity in the systems.

Harold Boël: Yeah. Thank you, Michiel de Klerk. Excellent questions. Yes, it's a trend we see generally, that because of rising interest rates, there is less liquidity in the system, so that the number or the volume, I would say, of buyers for assets coming out is smaller. That being said, and I think Salto is a good example, if you have a good asset, you find a good home for it. It's not an issue in that sense. But what we do see is that, and not only us, but other operators, are being much more mindful of presenting assets at the right moment in the asset's development, where the growth potential and the growth drivers are clear and established, when the company is on a very sound strategic step and so on and so forth.

Harold Boël: Yeah. Thank you, Michiel. Excellent questions. Yes, it's a trend we see generally, that because of rising interest rates, there is less liquidity in the system, so that the number or the volume, I would say, of buyers for assets coming out is smaller. That being said, and I think Salto is a good example, if you have a good asset, you find a good home for it. It's not an issue in that sense. But what we do see is that, and not only us, but other operators, are being much more mindful of presenting assets at the right moment in the asset's development, where the growth potential and the growth drivers are clear and established, when the company is on a very sound strategic step and so on and so forth.

Speaker #1: So that the number of or the volume, I would say, of natural buyers for assets coming out is smaller. That being said, and I think saldo is a good example, if you have a good asset, you find a good you find a good home for it.

Speaker #1: And so, it's not an issue in that sense. But what we do see is that, and not only us but other operators as well, are being much more mindful of presenting assets at the right moment in the asset's development.

Speaker #1: Where the growth potential and the growth drivers are clear and established, when the company is on a very sound strategic step, and so on and so forth.

Speaker #1: And whereas in previous years, there was such a huge demand for finding a home for that liquidity that, basically, at any given moment in time, funds were happy to flip assets over.

Harold Boël: Whereas in previous years, there was such a huge demand for finding a home for that liquidity, that basically at any given moment in time, funds were happy to flip assets over. Nowadays, one has to be very mindful and very deliberate in when you do that. Now, for people like us, it's really not an issue, because we have permanent capital. If we feel that, and actually it has happened that we have a rendezvous clause in one of our portfolio companies that we say that everybody looks around and says, "We have the intention of bringing the asset to market, but there is this and that. This project is not finished yet. That new product or that new service will have a very good year last year, which really proves the thesis. You know what? Let's wait a year." We're very comfortable doing that.

Harold Boël: Whereas in previous years, there was such a huge demand for finding a home for that liquidity, that basically at any given moment in time, funds were happy to flip assets over. Nowadays, one has to be very mindful and very deliberate in when you do that. Now, for people like us, it's really not an issue, because we have permanent capital. If we feel that, and actually it has happened that we have a rendezvous clause in one of our portfolio companies that we say that everybody looks around and says, we have the intention of bringing the asset to market, but there is this and that. This project is not finished yet. That new product or that new service will have a very good year last year, which really proves the thesis. You know what? Let's wait a year. We're very comfortable doing that.

Speaker #1: Nowadays, one has to be very mindful and very deliberate when you do that. Now, for people like us, it's really not an issue.

Speaker #1: Because it means because we have permanent capital, and if we feel that and actually, it has happened that we have a rendezvous close in one of our in one of our portfolio companies, that we say that everybody looks around and says, this is a good time to this is we have the intention of bringing the asset to market, but there is this and that, this project is not finished yet.

Speaker #1: That new product or that new service will have a very good year. Last year, which really proves that he says, you know what, let's wait a year.

Speaker #1: We're very comfortable doing that, and that's what I mean. In terms of multiples going down, it's really very, very dependent from sector to sector.

Harold Boël: That is what I mean. In terms of multiples going down, it is really very, very dependent from sector to sector. We not only use multiples. Quoted equivalent multiples is one of the indicators that we use. For cash generative companies, I really like these calculations to be grounded in a DCF because, for all the difficulties and the sensitivities of a DCF to assumptions, you can really break down all the constituents of value creation. What we do see, if you ask me, where did we see that multiple compression coming from, I think from some specific cases where with challenges very specific to that company, I have Cognita in mind here, but also in our software companies where the multiples had recovered from the depth of the SaaSpocalypse. You remember that was what people said in Q1.

Speaker #1: And we not only use multiples—multiples is one of the, quote, equivalent multiples, is one of the stories, is one of the indicators that we use.

Speaker #1: We, for cash-generative companies, really like these calculations to be grounded in a DCF because, for all the difficulties and the sensitivities of a DCF to assumptions, you can really break down all the constituents of value creation.

Speaker #1: But what we do see—and if you ask me where did we see that multiple compression coming from—I think from some specific cases with challenges very specific to that company, which I have completely in mind here, but also in our software companies, where the multiples had recovered from the depth of the SaaS apocalypse.

Speaker #1: You remember, that was what people said in Q1. But we're still not where we were last year. I think the market is a little bit wait-and-see.

Harold Boël: Still are not there where they were last year. I think the market is a little bit wait and see. We have strong conviction that well-managed and well-positioned vertical software companies have a role to play. To turn a value five years down the line is, well, if they are good today, they could be good tomorrow, but the world in that sector is somewhat more uncertain, it is just in operators' mind, a higher discount factor, that weighs on the multiples of the companies. The companies themselves are growing. To give you a little bit color on two of these aspects. On the top 10, yes, it is an aggregate, it is an aggregate of different methodologies because every fund has its own methodology, therefore every fund arrives with a different valuation. There can be a band.

Speaker #1: We have strong conviction that well-managed and well-positioned vertical software companies have a role to play. The terminal value five years down the line is—well, they're good today, they could be good tomorrow, but the world in that sector is somewhat more uncertain.

Speaker #1: And there's just, in operators' minds, a higher discount factor, and that weighs on the multiples of the companies. But the companies themselves are growing.

Speaker #1: So, to give you a little bit of color on two of these aspects. Now, on the top 10—yes, it is an aggregate, and it's an aggregate of different methodologies, because every fund has its own methodology, and therefore every fund arrives at a different valuation.

Speaker #1: And there can be a band. It depends from asset to asset, and in the top 10, I don't have the detail on the width of that band, but there is certainly one.

Harold Boël: It depends from asset to asset, in the top 10, I do not have the detail on the width of that band, but there is certainly one. So you will have different values for different stakes. I would say in the top 10, but in general, as a rule. You asked a question about Anthropic. As we all know, there was a big fundraise in Q2 for Anthropic. The extent to which the impact of this fundraise in the NAV is for all the funds that have used that as a valuation basis. It is in there for all the funds that have reported, but to see the impact on the top 10, it depends then on the funds sending the detailed information. We have at the moment, before we publish the books, far fewer of those.

Speaker #1: And so you will have different values for different stakes. I would say in the top 10, but in general, as a rule—and you asked the question about Anthropic—as we all know, there was a big fundraise in Q2 for Anthropic.

Speaker #1: And the extent to which the impact of this fundraise in the NAV is, for all the funds that have used that as a valuation basis, it's in there.

Speaker #1: For all the funds that have reported. But to see the impact on the top 10, it depends then on the funds sending the detailed information.

Speaker #1: And we have at the moment, where we published the books, far fewer of those. By the end of September, usually we should be at more than 95%, but we have to report right now.

Harold Boël: By the end of September, usually we should be at more than 95%, but we have to report right now. That could mean that if we were to do the picture again on the basis of all the information, the position of Anthropic could change because the value at which the capital raise took place was at around 900 billion, coming from the, I think 200-ish billion of the latest fundraise. So you have 4x on something which, because the numbers are just so huge, is an important position. I hope that answers your question.

Speaker #1: And that could mean that if we were to do the picture again on the basis of all the information, the position of Anthropic could change, because the value at which the capital raise took place was at around $900 million, coming from, I think, $200-ish million of the latest fundraise.

Speaker #1: So you have 4x on something which, because the numbers are just so huge, is an important position. I hope that answers your question.

Speaker #2: It definitely does. Thank you, Errol.

Michiel de Klerk: It definitely does. Thank you, Harold.

Michiel Declercq: It definitely does. Thank you, Harold.

Speaker #1: You're welcome, Nikhil.

Harold Boël: You are welcome, Michiel de Klerk.

Harold Boël: You are welcome, Michiel.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): I see Philip Grootscholten at the Growth Summit. We will unmute you and please go ahead, Philip.

Dirk Delmartino: I see Philip Grootscholten at the Growth PicSum. We will unmute you and please go ahead, Philip.

Speaker #3: I see Philip Colson said the growth bid come. We'll unmute you, and please go ahead, Philip.

Speaker #2: Hello, gentlemen. Thank you very much for hosting the call and giving me the opportunity to perhaps ask three questions. Harold, the first one is on ByteDance.

Philip Grootscholten: Hello, gentlemen. Thank you very much for hosting the call and giving me the opportunity to perhaps ask three questions. Harold, the first one is on ByteDance. You have exposure, as you mentioned, both through the private equity funds and your direct investments. Is it fair to assume that this could now be your largest single exposure? At what point in time is one name too much exposure for you? The second question is, given the delays in exits, have you any funds in your portfolios that have reached end of life? In other words, the 10-year period has passed and there is still residual money left that the general partner is not able to monetize. The third question, more kind of a breakdown in terms of your private equity funds exposure.

Speaker #2: You have exposure, as you mentioned, both through the private equity funds and your direct investments. Is it fair to assume that this could now be your largest single exposure?

Speaker #2: And at what point in time is too much in one name too much exposure for you? The second question is, given the delays in exits, do you have any funds in your portfolios that have reached the end of life?

Speaker #2: In other words, the 10-year period has passed, and there's still residual money left that the general partner is not able to monetize. And then the third question is more of a breakdown in terms of your private equity fund exposure.

Speaker #2: Can you share with us a little bit, in terms of what percent of the portfolio is venture capital versus growth? Thank you so much.

Philip Grootscholten: Can you share with us a little bit in terms of what percent of the portfolio is venture capital versus growth? Thank you so much.

Harold Boël: Well, ByteDance, I think we disclosed that it is our largest exposure in the portfolio. We have spoken about it before. A very successful, very strong company, very strong management, and keeps on their growth path. Committing to AI and their model is one of the most relevant models in China. To what extent is too much of a good thing? Well, I think we disclosed that it is higher than 5%, but it does mean not higher than 10%. We would disclose it if that were the case, so that gives you an order of magnitude. That is still single-digit percentage of the portfolio. From a concentration point of view, in general, as I said before, we start to get itchy fingers in high teens sort of numbers, because then you really still have real NAV needle movers, and you have to look at the embedded risk.

Speaker #1: Okay, so ByteDance—I think we disclosed that it is our largest exposure in the portfolio. We've spoken about it before; very successful, very, very strong company, very strong management.

Speaker #1: And I keep some on their growth path. Committing to AI and their model is one of the most relevant models in China. To what extent is too much of a good thing?

Speaker #1: Well, we are still, I think, we disclosed that it is higher than five, but it does mean not higher than ten. We would disclose it if that were the case.

Speaker #1: So that gives you a lot of magnitude, and that is still a single-digit percentage of the portfolio. So, from a concentration point of view, in general, as I said before, we start to get itchy fingers.

Speaker #1: In high-teens sort of numbers, because then you really still have NAV, real NAV, needle movers, and you have to look at the embedded risk.

Speaker #1: So the answer is no, it's not uncomfortable. It's something we keep a close eye on. As you know, the greatest uncertainty around ByteDance is the moment of the liquidity event.

Harold Boël: The answer is no. It is not uncomfortable. It is something we keep a close eye on. As you know, the greatest uncertainty around ByteDance is the moment of the liquidity event. In all likelihood, given the size of the company, that would be a listing. I think there is a saying in Dutch about trying to look through coffee. It is difficult, and we do not have a view on that. Just reminding that ByteDance is an investment. It is a bit of an atypical investment. It is a direct investment, but it is through an SPV with a single asset inside, and the single asset is that position in ByteDance. As an SPV, where we are in fact LPs of, we have no say and no view into the liquidity generation.

Speaker #1: So, in all likelihood, given the size of the company, that would be a listing. And I think there's a saying in Dutch about trying to look through coffee.

Speaker #1: It's difficult, and we don't have a view on that. And just reminding that ByteDance is an investment—it's a bit of an atypical investment.

Speaker #1: It is a direct investment, but it is through an SPV with a single asset inside, and that single asset is the position in ByteDance.

Speaker #1: But as an SPV, where we are in fact LPs, we have no say and no view into the liquidity generation. So, not the situation you would think is so great to have your single largest asset in.

Harold Boël: Not the situation you would think is so great to have your single largest asset in, but I would call that a very high-quality problem, because the reason why it is such a huge position and a big position in the portfolio is that it has been one of our most successful investments ever. The second one, delays in exit. I am going to answer yes. There are funds that have reached the end of life, and then they go through LPA, through the LPAC advisory council to see if they can get a one-year extension, then a two-year extension, and they find solutions. That happens, I would say, on a regular basis. But when it happens, it is usually on a residual asset, which is representing single-digit percentages of the total fund. A fund typically depends. A venture would have more lines.

Speaker #1: But I would call that a very high quality problem, because the reason why it's such a huge position in a big position in the portfolio is that it has been one of our most successful investments ever.

Speaker #1: The second one, delays in exit. I'm going to answer yes. There are funds that have reached the end of life, and then they go through LPA.

Speaker #1: Through the LBE Advisory Council, to see if they can get a one-year extension, then a two-year extension; then they find solutions. But that happens, I would say, on a regular basis.

Speaker #1: But when it happens, it's usually on a residual asset, which is representing single-digit percentages of the total fund. So a fund, typically as a venture, would have more lines.

Speaker #1: It can be companies in liquidation, for instance, where those processes take a very, very long time. So, not such a successful investment. But that has been discounted and worked through the NAV.

Harold Boël: It can be companies in liquidation, for instance, where those processes take a very long time. Not such a successful investment. That has been discounted and worked through the NAV. The idea of having a fund where you would have at the 10-year mark, I don't know, still 50% of the invested capital not having been returned, that would be very rare. If that were to happen, I can tell you one thing, that GP is not raising another fund. They tend to find solutions. Yes, it can happen, but it is usually for non-significant amounts. The second one is the VC versus growth exposure. I wonder if this is something that we disclose. Yes, we disclose it here. You have the Sofina private fund strategy split on page 7 of the presentation, Philip, I think.

Speaker #1: And so the idea of having a fund where you would have, at the 10-year mark, I don't know, still 50% of the invested capital not having been returned—that would be very rare.

Speaker #1: And if that were to happen, I can tell you one thing: that GP is not raising another fund. So, they tend to find solutions.

Speaker #1: So yes, it can happen, but it's usually for non-significant amounts. And the second one is the VC versus growth exposure. I wonder if this is something that we disclose.

Speaker #1: Yes, we disclose it here. You have the Sofina private fund; the strategy split is on page seven of the presentation, Philip, I think.

Speaker #2: Yeah. Okay.

Philip Grootscholten: Yeah. Okay.

Speaker #1: And that should answer your question.

Harold Boël: That should answer your question.

Speaker #2: Great, really appreciate that very much, Harold. Just maybe a small add-on to your answer on individual portfolios, or the residual values in certain portfolios.

Philip Grootscholten: Great. Really appreciate that very much, Harold. Just maybe a small add-on to your answer on the usual portfolios or the residual values in certain portfolios.

Harold Boël: Yes.

Speaker #2: Have you at all taken advantage, where need be, of these consolidator funds? In other words, funds that buy up these kind of residual stakes in funds?

Philip Grootscholten: Have you at all taken advantage where need be of these consolidator funds? In other words, funds that buy up these kind of residual stakes in funds, or that has really not been an opportunity that you had to look at?

Speaker #2: Or has that not really been an opportunity you've had to look at?

Speaker #1: We used to have these secondary funds. We were investors with Lexington, for instance, and Asian has always had also a very good secondary practice.

Harold Boël: We used to have these secondary funds. We were investors with Lexington, for instance, and Ardian has always had also a very good secondary practice. The truth is, across time, we have consolidated our relationships on the venture and growth sides, because those are the ones that generate the synergistic effects with our direct investment portfolio. So the answer is, it has happened in the past, and these were good investments in general, but no longer because of strategic alignment within the portfolio.

Speaker #1: The truth is, across time, we've consolidated our relationships on the venture and growth sides, because those are the ones that generate the synergistic effects with our direct investment portfolio.

Speaker #1: So the answer is, it has happened in the past, and these were good investments in general. But no longer, because of strategic alignment within the portfolio.

Speaker #2: Great. Thank you so much again, Harold. Thank you very much.

Philip Grootscholten: Great. Thank you so much again, Harold. Thank you very much.

Speaker #1: You're welcome.

Harold Boël: You are welcome.

Speaker #2: Thank you, Philip. I see Yvonne Perez has raised her hand, so John will unmute you and you can go ahead and ask your questions.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Thank you, Philip. I see John Perez raised his hand, so John, we will unmute you, and you can go ahead and ask the question. Kepler Cheuvreux.

Dirk Delmartino: Thank you, Philip. I see Jon Pérez raised his hand, so Jon, we will unmute you, and you can go ahead and ask the question. Kepler Cheuvreux.

Speaker #1: I'm not hearing anything.

Harold Boël: I am not hearing anything.

Speaker #2: Hi, hello. Can you hear me? Yeah, great. Thank you. Yeah, so John here from Q4. Just a quick one from me. First, congratulations on the results.

John Perez: Hi. Hello. Can you hear me?

Jon Pérez: Hi. Hello. Can you hear me?

Harold Boël: Yes.

John Perez: Great. Thank you. Yes. John here from Kepler Cheuvreux. Just a quick one for me first, on the results. Just a question. If we look at the performance by portfolio, the Sofina Direct portfolio was broadly flat excluding FX. I was wondering if you could share a bit of color on the main moving parts behind that flat trend. Was it, for example, that most of the portfolio companies were up, but a few of them were down? Was it something more even? If you could share some color on that. Thank you.

Jon Pérez: Great. Thank you. Yes. Jon here from Kepler Cheuvreux. Just a quick one for me first, on the results. Just a question. If we look at the performance by portfolio, the Sofina Direct portfolio was broadly flat excluding FX. I was wondering if you could share a bit of color on the main moving parts behind that flat trend. Was it, for example, that most of the portfolio companies were up, but a few of them were down? Was it something more even? If you could share some color on that. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Just a question. So if we look at the performance by portfolio, the Sofina direct portfolio was broadly flat, excluding FX. I was wondering if you could share a bit of color on the main moving parts behind that flat trend.

Speaker #2: Was it, for example, that most of the portfolio companies were up, but a few of them were down? Was it something more even? Yeah, if you could share some color on that.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Speaker #1: Yeah. The portfolio of 90 companies—it's difficult to get a really scientific answer across. I would say it was broad, with some strong contributors and some strong detractors, all in proportion.

Harold Boël: With a portfolio of 90 companies, it is difficult to get a really scientific answer across. I would say it was broad, with some strong contributors and some strong detractors, all proportions guarded here. The detractors, I think I spoke about. Cognita would have been one and our software businesses in terms of multiple compressions. The contributors, broadly speaking, companies here and there showing better cash flow, better EBITDA, stronger growth, which allow when you do the calculation to have a higher fair market value on that with no significant trends. If I were to say something, I would say the contributor basis would be broader based than the detractors where that was a little more concentrated.

Speaker #1: Guarded here, the detractors—I think I spoke about them, so Gunita would have been one—and our software businesses, in terms of multiple compressions. The contributors, broadly speaking, are companies here and there showing better cash flow, better EBITDA, and stronger growth, which allows us—when you do the calculation—to have a higher fair market value on that.

Speaker #1: But no significant trend. So I would say that if I were to say something, I'd say the contributor base would be broader-based than the detractors, where that was a little more concentrated.

Speaker #2: Clear. Thank you.

John Perez: Clear. Thank you.

Jon Pérez: Clear. Thank you.

Speaker #3: Thank you, Yvonne. I see Jorun Van Aken. Please go ahead, Jorun.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Thank you, John. I see Joren Van Aken. Please go ahead, Joren.

Dirk Delmartino: Thank you, Jon. I see Joren Van Aken. Please go ahead, Joren.

Speaker #2: Hey, guys. Hear me?

Joren Van Aken: Can you guys hear me?

Speaker #1: Yep, we can hear you. Hi, Jorun.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Yep, we can hear you. Hi, Joran.

Dirk Delmartino: Yep, we can hear you. Hi, Joran.

Speaker #2: Hi. I've got two related questions, basically. In the report, you highlight that Sofina Growth basically focuses on Europe and Asia, and it does not mention the US.

Joren Van Aken: Hi. I have got two related questions, basically. In the report you highlight that Sofina Growth basically focuses on Europe and Asia, and it does not mention the US. The first question would be, why do not you consider co-investments in the US? Linked to that, my second question is, basically we have seen guys like Thrive and Khosla raising SPVs to invest directly into OpenAI. Menlo has an SPV in Anthropic. You are invested in Thrive and Khosla, which is great, but I guess you are not invested in those SPVs specifically. My question is basically, by excluding the US co-investments, are not you missing out on these attractive deals or co-investments? Thank you.

Speaker #2: So the first question would be: Why don't you consider co-investments in the US? And then, linked to that, my second question is: Basically, we've seen guys like Thrive and Coatue raising SPVs to invest directly into OpenAI. Menlo had an SPV in Anthropic.

Speaker #2: You are invested in Thrive and Cosla, which is great, but I guess you're not invested in them specifically. So my question is, basically, by excluding the US co-investments, aren't you missing out on these attractive deals or co-investments?

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Speaker #1: Well, we'll have to have a beer one day down the line to see if these are attractive deals. Jury's still out. An investor's job is only done when he remembers that.

Harold Boël: Well, we will have to have a beer one day down the line to see if these are attractive deals. The jury is still out. An investor's job is only done on resale. You remember that. Your question is a very good one. It is the one we ask ourselves often. First, a little bit of nuance. There are some cases where we do invest in US-based sort of opportunities. For instance, a company like Expo has offices or at least workers across the whole world. It is based in Seattle, and it is run by a Dutch guy. These digital companies, they are real nomads. If they happen to be based in the US, we will not look through that, and we will do it. That is one sort of exception. The second sort of exception is in very specific sectors, and I am thinking in particular about healthcare.

Speaker #1: But your question is a very good one. It's one we ask ourselves often. First, a little bit of nuance: there are some cases where we do invest in U.S.-based—well, U.S.-based sort of opportunities.

Speaker #1: For instance, a company like Crossbow, or like Expo, has offices, or at least workers, across the whole world. It's based in Seattle, and it's run by a Dutch guy.

Speaker #1: These digital companies, they're real nomads. So if they happen to be based in the US, yeah, we will—we will not look through that, and we will do it.

Speaker #1: That's one sort of exception. The second sort of exception is in very specific sectors, and I'm thinking in particular about healthcare. If you look at the way healthcare happens, Twin nowadays is a U.S. operating company, but it was an investment we sourced in India.

Harold Boël: If you look at the way healthcare happens, Twin nowadays is a US operating company, but it was an investment we sourced in India. Because the US market is so deep and so I would say "simple," of access in the sense that you have a single set of payers that open you the door for the whole country. Whereas in Europe, you have one authority on the safety side of whatever it is you are doing, but the reimbursements have to be negotiated country by country. Which means that when somebody comes up with a good idea, wherever they are in the world, be it Europe, be it Asia, the US is the port of call. These can be companies who could be established in the US for that reason, but whose roots are very much European or Asian. Twin Health being one of the examples.

Speaker #1: Because the US market is so deep and so I would say simple, I'll quote unquote, of access in the sense that you have a single set of payers that open you the door for the whole country.

Speaker #1: Whereas in Europe, you have one authority on the safety side of whatever it is you're doing, but the reimbursement has to be the reimbursements have to be negotiated country by country.

Speaker #1: Which means that when somebody comes up with a good idea, wherever they are in the world—be it Europe, be it Asia—the US is the port of call.

Speaker #1: And these can be companies that could be established in the US for that reason, but whose roots are very much European or Asian—Twin Health being one of the examples.

Speaker #1: And whenever we have access to those companies, we will gladly support them and invest. To be able to go to the next step and to be systematically an investor in the US on the Sofina Growth side, and there is a case, because it's a place of deep innovation, where there's lots of entrepreneurs and some very attractive transactions.

Harold Boël: Whenever we have access to those companies, we will gladly support them and invest. To go to the next step and to be systematically investor in the US on the Sofina Growth side, Johan, there is a case because it is a place of deep innovation, where there are lots of entrepreneurs, and some very attractive transactions. It is also an incredibly competitive space. We see it from all the funds we invested with. The reason why we invested with them, and we see it on a day-to-day basis, is that these guys are probably among the better investors on the planet. Investment is competitive whichever way you look at it.

Speaker #1: But it is also an incredibly competitive space. The reason why we—and we see it from all the funds we invested with—the reason why we invested with them, and we see it on a day-to-day basis, is that these guys are probably among the better investors on the planet.

Speaker #1: And investment is competitive, whichever way you look at it. So, to develop a practice where we're going to say, we are going to be direct investors in the US competing against the Thrive, the Lightspeed, the Sequoia of this world, means you need to have for yourself the notion: we have a right to win to do that.

Harold Boël: To develop a practice where we are going to say we are going to be directly investors in the US competing against the Thrives, the Lightspeeds, the Sequoias of this world, means you need to have for yourself the notion we have a right to win to do that. I have a high regard for Sofina, I have a high regard for the team, and our ability to bring differentiated value to the market. To an extent, to go head-to-head against all these guys, I think there are places where our right to win speaks louder and is stronger. That is the answer. Furthermore, from a risk management perspective, as we explained last year, we like to keep our investment pace balanced between the three regions.

Speaker #1: And I have a high regard for Sofina. I have a high regard for the team, and our ability to bring differentiated value to the market.

Speaker #1: But to an extent, to go head-to-head against all these guys, I think there are places where our right to win speaks louder and is stronger.

Speaker #1: So that is the answer. Furthermore, from a risk management perspective, as we explained last year, we like to keep our investment pace balanced between the three regions.

Speaker #1: And in other words, if I were to do have the if Sofina was touched by the grace of God and became the best investor on the planet, it would still mean that in order to keep that balance of investment of investment pace between the three regions, for every direct I did more, I would have to do some indirect less in terms of commitment.

Harold Boël: In other words, if I were to do, have the If Sofina was touched by the grace of God and became the best investor on the planet, it would still mean that in order to keep that balance of investment pace between the three regions, for every direct I did more, I would have to do some indirect less in terms of commitment. Again, I do not see myself committing to having a smaller commitment to Sequoia or to Lightspeed or Andreessen in order for us to be competing with them. That is the reason why we do not do that. I hope this answers your question.

Speaker #1: And again, I don't see myself committing to having a smaller commitment to Sequoia or to Lightspeed or Andreessen in order for us to be competing with them.

Speaker #1: And that is the reason why we don't do that. I hope this answers your question.

Speaker #2: Yeah, that's fair. I won't be fair because I want to squeeze in another question. In the post-closing, you mentioned that you have done an exit from Salto.

Joren Van Aken: Yeah, that is fair. I will not be fair because I want to squeeze in another question. In the post-closing, you mentioned that you have done an exit from Salto.

Speaker #2: I'm just wondering, is the NAV as of June 30th already reflecting the updated valuation of the exit?

Harold Boël: Yeah

Harold Boël: Yeah.

Joren Van Aken: I am just wondering, is the NAV at 30 June already reflecting the updated valuation of the exit?

Speaker #1: I think the answer is yes, and I'm handing over to Kim after the confirmation, because it's a post-closing event. Clement, can you confirm?

Harold Boël: I think the answer is yes, I am handing over to Clément for confirmation. Because it is a post-closing event. Clément, can you confirm? Please unmute.

Speaker #3: Clement, if you could raise your hand, we will unmute you.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Clément, if you could raise your hand, we will unmute you.

Dirk Delmartino: Clément, if you could raise your hand, we will unmute you.

Speaker #1: Okay, we'll get back to you. Clément, are you there? We'll get back to you. You're on that one.

Harold Boël: Okay, we will get back to you. Clément, are you there? We will get back to you, Joran, on that one.

Speaker #3: Is there? Go ahead, Clement. We'll unmute you now.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): He is there, so go ahead, Clément. We will unmute you now.

Dirk Delmartino: He is there, so go ahead, Clément. We will unmute you now.

Speaker #4: Can you hear me now?

Clément Gury: Can you hear me now?

Speaker #1: Yes.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Yes.

Dirk Delmartino: Yes.

Clément Gury: Sorry for the technical issues. Yes, it is valued as this in the June figures.

Speaker #4: Sorry for the technical issues. Yes, it is valued as this in the June figures.

Speaker #2: Thank you.

Joren Van Aken: Thank you.

Speaker #3: I don't see more hands raised on the webcast. I see maybe here in the room, Geoffrey or Édouard, do you have questions for Harold?

[Company Representative] (Sofina): I don't see more hands raised on the webcast. I see maybe here in the room, Joffrey or Edward, do you have questions for Harold?

Dirk Delmartino: I don't see more hands raised on the webcast. I see maybe here in the room, Joffrey or Edward, do you have questions for Harold?

Speaker #1: Yeah, I came from the whole set. I think Philippe already asked a few questions, but that's okay.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Yeah. Joffrey from the. I think Philip asked already his questions. No, I don't think so. That's okay.

[Analyst]: Yeah. Joffrey from the. I think Philip asked already his questions.

Dirk Delmartino: No, I don't think so. That's okay.

Speaker #3: No? Okay, great. I think that's all we have time for. I see one, two more requests, so Rob Rex, ops, go ahead.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): No? Okay. Great. I think that's all we have time. I see one, two more requests. Robert van der Eijk, go ahead.

Dirk Delmartino: No? Okay. Great. I think that's all we have time. I see one, two more requests. [Roberis], go ahead.

Speaker #4: Can you hear me? Hello?

Robert van der Eijk: Can you hear me?

[Analyst] (Private Investor): Can you hear me?

Harold Boël: Hello?

Robert van der Eijk: Hello. Yes, can you hear me?

[Analyst] (Private Investor): Hello. Yes, can you hear me?

Speaker #3: Yes?

Speaker #4: Yes, can you hear me?

Speaker #1: Yeah, we can hear you.

Harold Boël: Yeah, we can hear you.

Speaker #4: Yeah, okay, perfect. Yeah, hello. I'm Rob Rex. I'm a private investor. I've already been in Sofina for, I think, one and a half years now.

Robert van der Eijk: Yeah. Okay, perfect. Yeah, hello. I'm Robert. I'm a private investor, already now for I think one year and a half in Sofina, and I was wondering, I saw since you now have published the top 10 companies that are your indirect investments. So I thought that SpaceX was, I think, the first company, and I was wondering, were you able to leverage or get some value from the IPO that has taken place in June, or is that something that hasn't occurred yet, or that will come in the future, that you will take advantage of the IPO? Thank you.

[Analyst] (Private Investor): Yeah. Okay, perfect. Yeah, hello. I'm Roberis. I'm a private investor, already now for I think one year and a half in Sofina, and I was wondering, I saw since you now have published the top 10 companies that are your indirect investments. So I thought that SpaceX was, I think, the first company, and I was wondering, were you able to leverage or get some value from the IPO that has taken place in June, or is that something that hasn't occurred yet, or that will come in the future, that you will take advantage of the IPO? Thank you.

Speaker #4: And I was wondering—I saw, since you now have published the top 10 companies that are your indirect investments, I thought that SpaceX was, I think, the first company.

Speaker #4: And I was wondering, were you able to leverage or get some value from the IPO that has taken place in June? Or is that something that will yeah, that you have that yeah, that hasn't occurred yet or that will come in the future that you will take advantage of the.

Speaker #4: Thank you.

Speaker #3: Yeah, okay.

Speaker #1: Yeah, thanks. Yeah, the IPO having taken place before the before the close of the period, the valuation of it, SpaceX, and the funds through which they are, because we don't hold SpaceX directly, is based on the fact of SpaceX being a publicly quoted company.

Harold Boël: Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, the IPO having taken place before the close of the period, the valuation of it, SpaceX, and the funds through which they are, because we don't hold SpaceX directly, is based on the fact of SpaceX being a publicly quoted company.

Speaker #4: Okay.

Robert van der Eijk: Okay.

[Analyst] (Private Investor): Okay.

Speaker #3: Thank you. And I see another question from Joren.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Thank you. I see another question from Joran.

Dirk Delmartino: Thank you. I see another question from Joran.

Speaker #2: Great. Two more, then. In the top 10, I did see that Cambridge Associates basically went up from number 6 to number 2. So just wondering if there was anything special.

Joren Van Aken: Great. Two more then. In the top 10, I did see that Cambridge Associates basically went up from number 6 to number 2, so just wondering if there was anything special I couldn't really find around or something. Secondly, also a cheeky question. It's on the HSG Alliance D investment, the mysterious HongShan co-investment. Imagine, hypothetically speaking, if the underlying company would be a listed company in Hong Kong, wouldn't you be allowed to tell us which company it would be? Could it still be under NDA even if it's public?

Speaker #2: I couldn't really find a round or something. And then secondly, also a cheeky question. It's on the HSG Alliance D investment—the mysterious Hongshan co-investment.

Speaker #2: Imagine, hypothetically speaking, if the underlying company were a listed company in Hong Kong, wouldn't you be allowed to tell us which company it would be?

Speaker #2: Or could it still be under NDA, even if it's public?

Speaker #1: Okay, the first question is the first question is not cheeky at all. I think improved performance and probably a combination of performance and multiple.

Harold Boël: Okay. The first question is not cheeky at all. I think improved performance, and probably a combination of performance and multiples. Indeed, there was no round at Cambridge. It's just the company was performing well, as it has since we've invested. So nothing special to report there. On HSCD, to answer your question, it's a hypothetical case, so I don't like to speculate. Point one, point two, I don't have the LPA under my eyes, and I can't answer. Usually on these confidentiality agreements, there is always the carve-out that if for regulatory reasons you have to disclose information about the asset, then it's allowed.

Speaker #1: But indeed, there were no rounds. There was at Cambridge. It's just that the company is performing well, as it has since we've invested. So nothing special to report there.

Speaker #1: And on HSCD, to answer your question, we would have—it's a hypothetical case, so I don't like to speculate. And, point one; point two, I don't have the LPA in front of me, so I can't answer.

Speaker #1: But usually, on these confidentiality agreements, there is always the carve-out that if, for a regulatory reason, you have to disclose information about the asset, then it's allowed.

Speaker #2: Okay, thank you.

Joren Van Aken: Okay. Thank you.

Speaker #1: Okay.

Harold Boël: Okay.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Thank you, Harold. And thank you, everybody, for joining this webcast. As I said, you can find all the information and all the reports that we went through on our website.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Thank you, Harold Boël. Thank you everybody for joining this webcast. As I said, you find all the information on all the reports that we went through on our website. With that, we will end the webcast here. Thank you for joining, and we will see you again in six months with the full year results. Thank you, Harold Boël. Thanks, everyone.

Dirk Delmartino: Thank you, Harold. Thank you everybody for joining this webcast. As I said, you find all the information on all the reports that we went through on our website. With that, we will end the webcast here. Thank you for joining, and we will see you again in six months with the full year results. Thank you, Harold. Thanks, everyone.

Speaker #3: And with that, we'll end the webcast here. Thank you for joining, and we'll see you again in six months with the full-year results. Thank you, Harold.

Speaker #3: Thanks, everybody.

Harold Boël: Thank you, Gilles. Thank you, everyone.

Harold Boël: Thank you, Dirk. Thank you, everyone.

[Company Representative] (Sofina): Have a good day.

Dirk Delmartino: Have a good day.

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