Q2 2026 Mortgage Advice Bureau PLC Earnings Call

September 25, 2026

Speaker #1: Station. Throughout this Q2 presentation, investors will be in listen-only mode. Questions and comments can be submitted at any time via the Q&A tab situated in the right-hand corner of your screen.

Operator: Throughout this quarter presentation, investors will be in listen only mode. Questions and queries can be submitted at any time via the Q&A tab situated on the right-hand corner of your screen. Please simply type in your questions and press send. Before we begin, I would like to submit the following poll. I would like to hand you over to the management team. Peter, good morning, sir.

Speaker #1: Please just simply type in your questions and press send. Before we begin, I'd like to submit the following poll: I'd like to hand you over to the management team, Peter.

Speaker #1: Good morning, sir.

Speaker #2: Good morning, and good morning everybody, and thank you for dialing in for our half-year results update. Obviously, we did have to release the news a few weeks ago in terms of resetting expectations for this year's numbers.

Peter Brodnicki: Good morning. Good morning, everybody, and thank you for dialing in for our H1 results update. Obviously, we did have to release the news a few weeks ago in terms of resetting expectations for this year's numbers. Today, we want to give you a bit more context around that, and hopefully reassure you about how positive things are underlying all of that. To kick things off, I am going to pass you to Mark.

Speaker #2: Today, we want to give you a bit more context around that, and hopefully reassure you about how positive things are underlying all of that.

Speaker #2: And to kick things off, I'm going to pass you to Mark.

Speaker #3: Thanks, Peter. Good morning, everyone, and thank you for joining. MAB's 2026 interim results presentation—I'll begin with our first half highlights and some context on the markets that we operate in.

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Thanks, Peter. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining MAB's 2026 interim results presentation. I will begin with our H1 highlights and some context on the markets that we operate in. Jo, our CFO, will then cover the financial review, before Peter provides an update on strategy. We will leave plenty of time at the end for your questions. So H1 to June, MAB delivered a resilient performance consistent with the headlines that we pre-announced a couple of weeks ago. Total mortgage lending increased by 16% to GBP 16.5 billion, despite mortgage pricing volatility creating a complex environment for customers and advisors. Growth was led by refinancing and particularly product transfers, which is where customers stay with existing lenders. That supported strong activity levels, but generated less revenue than we get from purchase lending. That explains why revenue growth of 8.6% was below the growth in lending.

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Thanks, Peter. Good morning, everyone, and thanks for joining MAB's 2026 Interim Results Presentation. I will begin with our H1 highlights and some context on the markets that we operate in. Jo, our CFO, will then cover the financial review, before Peter provides an update on strategy. We will leave plenty of time at the end for your questions. H1 to June, MAB delivered a resilient performance consistent with the headlines that we pre-announced a couple of weeks ago.

Speaker #3: Joe, our CFO, will then cover the financial review before Peter provides an update on strategy. We'll leave plenty of time at the end for your questions.

Speaker #3: So, first half to June: MAB delivered a resilient performance, consistent with the headlines that we pre-announced a couple of weeks ago. Total mortgage lending increased by 16% to £16.5 billion, despite mortgage pricing volatility creating a complex environment for customers and advisors.

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Total mortgage lending increased by 16% to GBP 16.5 billion, despite mortgage pricing volatility creating a complex environment for customers and advisors. Growth was led by refinancing and particularly product transfers, which is where customers stay with existing lenders. That supported strong activity levels, but generated less revenue than we get from purchase lending. That explains why revenue growth of 8.6% was below the growth in lending.

Speaker #3: Growth was led by refinancing, and particularly product transfers, which is where customers stay with existing lenders. That supported strong activity levels, but generated less revenue than we get from purchase lending.

Speaker #3: And that explains why revenue growth of 8.6% was below the growth in lending. That product mix also presents a headwind to margins, although adjusted profit before tax did still grow by 2.1%.

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): That product mix also presents a headwind to margins, although adjusted PBT did still grow by 2.1%. Our share of new mortgage lending remained stable at 8.2%, while our share of product transfers increased by 10 basis points to 3.2%. Turning to market trends. If you remember back at the start of 2026, expectations were for a gradual recovery in the housing market, supported by interest rate cuts in the H2 of the year. Domestic and global developments have disrupted that outlook, increasing uncertainty around inflation and the path of borrowing costs. Against that backdrop, the H1 was very much refinance led. You can see purchase lending was 1% lower for us compared with a 2% decline in the market. That is against the prior year comparative that benefited from activity ahead of the Stamp Duty changes.

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: That product mix also presents a headwind to margins, although adjusted PBT did still grow by 2.1%. Our share of new mortgage lending remained stable at 8.2%, while our share of product transfers increased by 10 basis points to 3.2%. Turning to market trends. If you remember back at the start of 2026, expectations were for a gradual recovery in the housing market, supported by interest rate cuts in the H2 of the year.

Speaker #3: Our share of new mortgage lending remained stable at 8.2%, while our share of product transfers increased by 10 basis points to 3.2%. Turning to market trends: if you remember, back at the start of 2026, expectations were for a gradual recovery in the housing market, supported by interest rate cuts in the second half of the year.

Speaker #3: Domestic and global developments have disrupted that outlook, increasing uncertainty around inflation and the path of borrowing costs. Against that backdrop, the first half was very much refinance-led.

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Domestic and global developments have disrupted that outlook, increasing uncertainty around inflation and the path of borrowing costs. Against that backdrop, the H1 was very much refinance led. You can see purchase lending was 1% lower for us compared with a 2% decline in the market. That is against the prior year comparative that benefited from activity ahead of the Stamp Duty changes. By contrast, remortgage lending was strong, increasing by 29% in line with the market, whilst product transfers grew by 44% ahead of market growth of 40%.

Speaker #3: You can see purchase lending was 1% lower for us, compared with a 2% decline in the market, and that's against a prior-year comparative that benefited from activity ahead of the stamp duty changes.

Speaker #3: By contrast, remortgage lending was strong, increasing by 29% in line with the market, whilst product transfers grew by 44%, ahead of market growth of 40%.

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): By contrast, remortgage lending was strong, increasing by 29% in line with the market, whilst product transfers grew by 44% ahead of market growth of 40%. Conditions did soften a little in the summer over July and August, and uncertainty around borrowing costs is likely to constrain purchase activity in the near term. However, we have got significant fixed rate maturities that build over the next 18 months, and that supports a sizable refinancing opportunity for us. Those product end date maturities next year are around 30% higher than 2026, and the pipeline for 2028 is also building well. With that, I will hand over to Jo to run through the financial review.

Speaker #3: Conditions did soften a little in the summer, over July and August, and uncertainty around borrowing costs is likely to constrain purchase activity in the near term.

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Conditions did soften a little in the summer over July and August, and uncertainty around borrowing costs is likely to constrain purchase activity in the near term. However, we have got significant fixed rate maturities that build over the next 18 months, and that supports a sizable refinancing opportunity for us. Those product end date maturities next year are around 30% higher than 2026, and the pipeline for 2028 is also building well. With that, I will hand over to Jo to run through the financial review.

Speaker #3: However, we've got significant fixed-rate maturities that build over the next 18 months, and that supports a sizable refinancing opportunity for us. Those product end-date maturities next year are around 30% higher than in 2026, and the pipeline for 2028 is also building well.

Speaker #3: With that, I'll hand over to Joe to run through the financial review.

Speaker #1: Thanks very much, Mark, and good morning, everyone. I'm just going to start with the income statement for the half. As previously noted, revenues increased by 8.6% to £161 million half-on-half, and that was with a significant shift toward refinancing activity compared to the same period in the prior year.

Jo Stent: Thanks very much, Mark, and good morning, everyone. I am just going to start with the income statement for the half. As previously noted, revenues increased by 8.6% to GBP 161 million half on half, and that was with a significant shift towards refinancing activity compared to the same period in the prior year. Gross profit increased by 15.6% to GBP 47.4 million, and the gross margin expanded by 1.7 percentage points to 29.4%. This primarily reflects the contribution from our invested business acquisitions completed during late 2025, which operated at higher gross margins than the AR network. Although a reasonable uptick from gross margin headwinds created by the refinance led product mix, as well as the slower than anticipated ramp-up of revenue at Fluent Mortgages subdued gross margin expansion in the half. Adjusted administrative expenses increased by 21.6% to GBP 32.5 million.

Speaker #1: Gross profit increased by 15.6% to £47.4 million, and the gross margin expanded by 1.7 percentage points to 29.4%. This primarily reflects the contribution from our invested business acquisitions, completed during late 2025, which operated at higher gross margins than the AR network.

Jo Stent: This primarily reflects the contribution from our invested business acquisitions completed during late 2025, which operated at higher gross margins than the AR network. Although a reasonable uptick from gross margin headwinds created by the refinance led product mix, as well as the slower than anticipated ramp-up of revenue at Fluent Mortgages subdued gross margin expansion in the half. Adjusted administrative expenses increased by 21.6% to GBP 32.5 million.

Speaker #1: And although a reasonable uptick in gross margin headwinds was created by the refinance-led product mix, as well as this lower-than-anticipated ramp-up of revenue, it ultimately subdued gross margin expansion in the half.

Speaker #1: Adjusted administrative expenses increased by 21.6% to £32.5 million, and the main list reflects consolidation of recent acquisitions, as well as investment to support growth and higher activity levels moving forward.

Jo Stent: In the main, this reflects consolidation of recent acquisitions as well as investment to support growth and higher activity levels moving forward. Adjusted PBT increased by 2.1% to GBP 14.8 million, with the margin reducing moderately half on half to 9.2%. The increased contribution from invested businesses has changed the shape of the cost base, increasing operating leverage, but also the sensitivity of profit to the seasonal weighting of revenue towards the H2. Growth in EPS was less than growth in adjusted PBT due to the difference in non-controlling interest. Turning now to look at revenue in a little more detail. The notable shift in product mix half on half towards refinancing activity has been offset by the growth in average mainstream advisor numbers in both the AR network and invested businesses. With average mainstream advisers up 8.7% to 2,163 advisers.

Speaker #1: Adjusted PBT increased by 2.1% to £14.8 million, with the margin reducing moderately half-on-half to 9.2%. The increased contribution from invested businesses has changed the shape of the cost base, increasing operating leverage but also the sensitivity of profit to the seasonal weighting of revenue toward the second half.

Speaker #1: Growth in EPS was less than growth in adjusted PBT due to the difference in non-controlling interest. Turning now to look at revenue in a little more detail: the notable shift in product mix, half-on-half, toward refinancing activity has been offset by the growth in average mainstream advisor numbers in both the AR network and invested businesses, with average mainstream advisors up 8.7% to 2,163 advisors.

Jo Stent: Growth in EPS was less than growth in adjusted PBT due to the difference in non-controlling interest. Turning now to look at revenue in a little more detail. The notable shift in product mix half on half towards refinancing activity has been offset by the growth in average mainstream advisor numbers in both the AR network and invested businesses. With average mainstream advisers up 8.7% to 2,163 advisers.

Speaker #1: Average advisor productivity was stable at 74,400, which is a solid outcome given the product mix shift, as earlier referenced, when you think about refinancing and product transfers generating lower average revenues per completion compared to purchase lending.

Jo Stent: Average adviser productivity was stable at 74,400, which is a solid outcome given that product mix shift, as earlier referenced, and when you think about refinancing and product transfers generating lower average revenues per completion compared to purchase lending. As well as taking into account that recent joiners take time to build to full productivity, typically over a six to nine-month period. The shift towards refinancing meant that the increase in mortgage procuration fees of 12% to GBP 67.2 million was below the 16% increase in mortgage completions by value overall, as Mark previously referenced. Protection and general insurance commission increased by 7.8% to GBP 60.1 million half on half. It is important to note that this was achieved despite the higher refinancing mix, where protection attachment rates tend to be lower than on purchased transactions.

Speaker #1: We also take into account that recent joiners take time to build and reach full productivity, typically over a six to nine month period. The shift toward refinancing meant that the increase in mortgage procurement fees of 12%—to £67.2 million—was below the 16% increase in mortgage completions by value overall, as Mark previously referenced.

Speaker #1: Protection and general insurance commission increased by 7.8% to £60.1 million half-on-half. It's important to note that this was achieved despite the higher refinancing mix, where protection attachment rates tend to be lower than on purchase transactions.

Jo Stent: Protection and general insurance commission increased by 7.8% to GBP 60.1 million half on half. It is important to note that this was achieved despite the higher refinancing mix, where protection attachment rates tend to be lower than on purchased transactions. Client fees were broadly flat at GBP 30.1 million H1 on H1, again, reflecting that shift from purchase activity in the comparative period towards refinancing, which attracts a lower client fee attachment rate. Move on now to financial strength and shareholder returns.

Speaker #1: Client fees were broadly flat at £30.1 million half-on-half, again reflecting that shift from purchase activity in the comparative period toward refinancing, which attracts a lower client fee attachment rate.

Jo Stent: Client fees were broadly flat at GBP 30.1 million H1 on H1, again, reflecting that shift from purchase activity in the comparative period towards refinancing, which attracts a lower client fee attachment rate. Move on now to financial strength and shareholder returns. The group maintains a strong balance sheet with net debt of GBP 15.1 million, equivalent to leverage of 0.4 times. Net debt did increase moderately compared to June 2025, and that reflects a deliberate deployment of capital across strategic investments, acquisitions, the ordinary dividend, and a small share buyback. It also includes GBP 2.1 million in exceptional costs in relation to the move up to the main market. Cash conversion remains strong at 98%, however, is lower than in previous periods.

Speaker #1: We'll move on now to financial strength and shareholder returns. The Group maintains a strong balance sheet with net debt of £15.1 million, equivalent to leverage of 0.4 times.

Jo Stent: The group maintains a strong balance sheet with net debt of GBP 15.1 million, equivalent to leverage of 0.4 times. Net debt did increase moderately compared to June 2025, and that reflects a deliberate deployment of capital across strategic investments, acquisitions, the ordinary dividend, and a small share buyback. It also includes GBP 2.1 million in exceptional costs in relation to the move up to the main market. Cash conversion remains strong at 98%, however, is lower than in previous periods.

Speaker #1: Net debt did increase moderately compared to June 2025, and that reflects a deliberate deployment of capital across strategic investments, acquisitions, the ordinary dividend, and a small share buyback.

Speaker #1: It also includes £2.1 million in exceptional costs in relation to the move up to the main market. Cash conversion remained strong at 98%; however, it is lower than in previous periods.

Speaker #1: This reduction primarily reflects the payment of a one-off performance-related bonus in the half pertaining to 2025, as well as an upfront commercial incentive embedded within a new long-term contract with one of our largest AR firms, which will drive significant future benefits for the company.

Jo Stent: This reduction primarily reflects the payment of a one-off performance related bonus in the half pertaining to 2025, as well as an upfront commercial incentive embedded within a new long-term contract with one of our largest AR firms, which will drive significant future benefits for the company. Free cash flow is at GBP 11.8 million, compared with GBP 14.6 million in the prior period. This reduction reflects those same one-off payments, in addition to the GBP 2.1 million of one-off costs associated with the move to the main market. Diluted adjusted EPS increased by 1.1% to 18.4p. Finally, the board declared an interim dividend of 7.9p per share, an increase of approximately 10% on H1 2025, which is consistent with our progressive dividend policy. Turn now to capital allocation. Our priorities on capital allocation remain unchanged. In terms of allocation in the first half, we have maintained financial strength.

Speaker #1: Free cash flows were £11.8 million, compared with £14.6 million in the prior period, and this reduction reflects those same one-off payments in addition to the £2.1 million of one-off costs associated with the move to the main market.

Speaker #1: Diluted adjusted EPS increased by 1.1% to 18.4p. Finally, the board declared an interim dividend of 7.9p per share, an increase of approximately 10% on H1 2025, which is consistent with our progressive dividend policy.

Jo Stent: Diluted adjusted EPS increased by 1.1% to 18.4p. Finally, the board declared an interim dividend of 7.9p per share, an increase of approximately 10% on H1 2025, which is consistent with our progressive dividend policy. Turn now to capital allocation. Our priorities on capital allocation remain unchanged. In terms of allocation in the H1, we have maintained financial strength.

Speaker #1: And in turn, now to capital allocation. Our priorities for capital allocation remain unchanged. In terms of allocation in the first half, we've maintained financial strength. Leverage, as previously referred to, remains low at 0.4 times, providing financial flexibility.

Jo Stent: Leverage, as previously referred to, remains low at 0.4 times, providing financial flexibility. We invested in organic growth. We have invested GBP 5.5 million during the first half in technology, digital marketing, and customer acquisition in terms of strategic spend, as well as the GBP 2.1 million of costs related to the move to the main market, for a total of GBP 7.6 million. We declared an interim dividend for the half of 7.9p, representing a cash return of GBP 4.5 million. We have deployed GBP 4.4 million towards M&A investment in the half, which comprises the acquisitions of HomeOwners Alliance and Home Loan Services, together with deferred consideration relating to Evolve and Lucra. Finally, with regard to additional shareholder returns, we did carry out a GBP 2.8 million share buyback earlier this year.

Speaker #1: We've invested in organic growth; we've invested £5.5 million during the first half in technology, digital marketing, and customer acquisition. In terms of strategic spend, as well as £2.1 million of costs related to the move to the main market, for a total of £7.6 million.

Speaker #1: We declared an interim dividend for the half of 7.9p, representing a cash return of £4.5 million. And we've deployed £4.4 million toward M&A investment in the half, which comprises the acquisitions of Homeowners' Alliance and Home Loan Services, together with deferred consideration relating to Evolve and Lucra.

Jo Stent: We have deployed GBP 4.4 million towards M&A investment in the half, which comprises the acquisitions of HomeOwners Alliance and Home Loan Services, together with deferred consideration relating to Evolve and Lucra. Finally, with regard to additional shareholder returns, we did carry out a GBP 2.8 million share buyback earlier this year.

Speaker #1: And finally, with regard to additional shareholder returns, we did carry out a 2.8 million share buyback earlier this year. Looking ahead, though, to near-term capital commitments relating to existing investments, these are expected to be approximately £3 million in the balance of 2026, £1.5 million in 2027, and up to £8 million in 2028.

Jo Stent: Looking ahead, though, to near-term capital commitments relating to existing investments, these are expected to be approximately GBP 3 million in the balance of 2026, GBP 1.5 million in 2027, and up to GBP 8 million in 2028. In addition, the group has a GBP 7 million term loan reaching maturity in the spring of 2027. The strength of our balance sheet and cash generative model provide the capacity to meet these commitments while we continue to invest in growth and deliver shareholder returns. The group has, however, received indicative support to expand its revolving credit facility from GBP 15 million to GBP 35 million to provide enhanced flexibility over the medium term. I will now hand over to Peter to discuss strategy and outlook.

Speaker #1: In addition, the group has a £7 million term loan reaching maturity in the spring of 2027. The strength of our balance sheet and our cash-generative model provide us with the capacity to meet these commitments while we continue to invest in growth and deliver shareholder returns.

Jo Stent: The strength of our balance sheet and cash generative model provide the capacity to meet these commitments while we continue to invest in growth and deliver shareholder returns. The group has, however, received indicative support to expand its revolving credit facility from GBP 15 million to GBP 35 million to provide enhanced flexibility over the medium term. I will now hand over to Peter to discuss strategy and outlook.

Speaker #1: The group has, however, received indicative support to expand its revolving credit facility from £15 million to £35 million, to provide enhanced flexibility over the medium term.

Speaker #1: And I'll now hand over to Peter to discuss strategy and outlook.

Speaker #2: Thanks, Jo. The first thing I want to say is how disappointed I personally am, in terms of having to make that announcement a few weeks ago.

Peter Brodnicki: Thanks, Jo. The first thing I want to say is how disappointed I personally am in terms of having to make that announcement a few weeks ago. We have always prided ourselves on hitting numbers, and have done that consistently in all market conditions. We always keep a few things in our back pocket, so when there are downturns and unexpected events, which there have been plenty of in recent years, we still get our numbers regardless. Too many things converged at the same time this year for us to have enough in our back pocket to get there. From my perspective, I have been looking at this closely to see what could have done any differently, and what are the things that affected it all.

Speaker #2: We always pride ourselves on hitting our numbers and have done that consistently in all market conditions. We always keep a few things in our back pocket, so when there are downturns and unexpected events—which there have been plenty of in recent years—we still hit our numbers regardless.

Speaker #2: Too many things converge at the same time, this year, for us to have enough in our back pocket to get there. So, obviously, from my perspective, I've been looking at this closely to see what could have been done any differently.

Peter Brodnicki: From my perspective, I have been looking at this closely to see what could have done any differently, and what are the things that affected it all. I just want to do a little bit of that summary before I give you some more color about Fluent and other initiatives within the business. When we set these budgets, in Q4 last year, I think the whole industry was looking at maybe two or three rate cuts in 2026, and maybe a gradual pickup in the market.

Speaker #2: And what are the things that affected it all? So I just want to do a little bit of that summary before I give you some more color about Fluence and other initiatives within the business.

Peter Brodnicki: I just want to do a little bit of that summary before I give you some more color about Fluent and other initiatives within the business. When we set these budgets, in Q4 last year, I think the whole industry was looking at maybe two or three rate cuts in 2026, and maybe a gradual pickup in the market. In our numbers, we were anticipating a flat market, despite hoping there would be an upside, and a strong increase in refinancing, which we knew was coming through on our books anyway. Unfortunately, it did not happen, and we never understand. We had the worldwide issues that we had, and the purchase market went backwards rather than being stable, never mind going forwards.

Speaker #2: When we set these budgets, obviously in Q4 last year, I think the whole industry was looking at maybe two or three rate cuts in 2026.

Speaker #2: And maybe a gradual pickup in the market. In our numbers, we were sort of anticipating a flat market, despite hoping there'd be an upside.

Peter Brodnicki: In our numbers, we were anticipating a flat market, despite hoping there would be an upside, and a strong increase in refinancing, which we knew was coming through on our books anyway. Unfortunately, it did not happen, and we never understand. We had the worldwide issues that we had, and the purchase market went backwards rather than being stable, never mind going forwards.

Speaker #2: And obviously, a strong increase in refinancing, which we knew was coming through on our books anyway. Unfortunately, it didn't happen, and obviously, we don't understand—obviously, we had the worldwide issues that we had.

Speaker #2: And, obviously, the purchase market went backwards, rather than being stable or going forwards at the moment. That then meant, because we had a strong year on products, on product end dates, and refinancing, that the product mix significantly shifted.

Peter Brodnicki: That then meant because we had a strong year on product end dates, so refinancing, that meant the product mix significantly shifted, and far more towards refinancing. Actually, because of the economic concerns and outlook, there was a sharp jump up in the number of product transfers compared to remortgages, with 86% of those refinancing being product transfers. That was because people were trying to lock down their rate early in case rates went up. That excluded the opportunity to refinance, which takes longer. That was something we did not expect either. Also, what made it worse is this year, having worked very hard with a lot of major digital partners, we were expecting a significant step up from Fluent. These things take ages to build these relationships. We are talking about very significant lead flow from major digital lead flows.

Speaker #2: And, obviously, far more in towards refinancing. And actually, because of economic concerns and outlook, there was a sharp jump in the number of product transfers compared to remortgages, with 86% of those refinancing being product transfers.

Speaker #2: And that was because people were trying to lock down their rate early in case rates went up. That obviously excluded the opportunity to refinance, which takes longer.

Peter Brodnicki: That excluded the opportunity to refinance, which takes longer. That was something we did not expect either. Also, what made it worse is this year, having worked very hard with a lot of major digital partners, we were expecting a significant step up from Fluent. These things take ages to build these relationships. We are talking about very significant lead flow from major digital lead flows.

Speaker #2: So, that was something we didn't expect either. Also, what made it worse is that this year, having worked very hard with a lot of major digital partners, we were expecting a significant step-up from Fluence.

Speaker #2: These things take ages to build. These relationships, as we're talking about, are very significant lead flow with major digital lead flows. And although contracts were signed in all but one case, the resources required for those lead flows, to either ramp up existing partnerships or commence new ones, were diverted because of economic pressures and other areas of their business that resources had to be diverted to. Alternatively, obviously, AI-focused changes meant they had to maybe relook at their model and how they engage customers—and the mortgage aspect of it—rather than being dealt with as an individual.

Peter Brodnicki: Although contracts were signed in all but one case, the resources required at those lead flows to either ramp up existing partnerships or commence new ones was diverted because of the economic pressures in other areas of their business that resource had to be diverted to, or alternatively, AI focus that meant they had to maybe re-look at their model, and how they engage customers in the mortgage aspect of it, rather than being dealt with as an individual vertical would be built into a bigger, wider strategy, which again, pushed down the start dates time and time again this year. But the relationships are strong, the opportunities are still strong, and it is postponement rather than anything else. The other thing that happened is we had all those further investments in 2025. We were expecting those synergies to cut in sooner.

Speaker #2: Vertical would be built into a bigger, wider strategy, which again pushed down the start dates, time and time again this year. But the relationships are strong, the opportunities are still strong, and it's a postponement rather than anything else.

Peter Brodnicki: But the relationships are strong, the opportunities are still strong, and it is postponement rather than anything else. The other thing that happened is we had all those further investments in 2025. We were expecting those synergies to cut in sooner. Maybe that was too optimistic in terms of our projections. You add all those things together, it was just impossible for us to make enough adjustments from other areas to hit the numbers.

Speaker #2: The other thing that happened is, obviously, we had all those further investments in 2025. We were expecting those synergies to kick in sooner; maybe that was too optimistic.

Peter Brodnicki: Maybe that was too optimistic in terms of our projections. You add all those things together, it was just impossible for us to make enough adjustments from other areas to hit the numbers. We are still going to get 5% or 6% growth. It continues our track record of 25 years of growth, out of 26, since the company started, but it is still highly disappointing from where we wanted to get to. Probably what was more disappointing and probably disappointing to you is that we did not give you probably a better insight for the remainder of the year in our July statement. I think some of that was because we felt there were still some opportunities with the Fluent opportunity, but we did not expect the market to dip back probably quite as much as it did.

Speaker #2: In terms of our projections—so, you add all those things together—it was just impossible for us to make enough adjustments from other areas to hit the numbers.

Speaker #2: Okay, we're still going to get 5 or 6% growth. It continues our sort of track record of 25 years of growth out of 26.

Peter Brodnicki: We are still going to get 5% or 6% growth. It continues our track record of 25 years of growth, out of 26, since the company started, but it is still highly disappointing from where we wanted to get to. Probably what was more disappointing and probably disappointing to you is that we did not give you probably a better insight for the remainder of the year in our July statement. I think some of that was because we felt there were still some opportunities with the Fluent opportunity, but we did not expect the market to dip back probably quite as much as it did.

Speaker #2: Since the company started, but it's still highly disappointing from where we wanted to get to. And probably what was more disappointing, and probably disappointing to you, is that we didn't give you, probably, a better insight for the remainder of the year in our July statement.

Speaker #2: I think some of that was because we felt there were still some opportunities with the Fluence opportunity. We probably didn't expect the market to dip back quite as much as it did.

Peter Brodnicki: We would have missed, we were very determined to hit our numbers, but that should not have made any difference. I still think looking back, we could have projected a more cautious view a few months ago. All the right intentions were there, and we were absolutely certain of our numbers of what is coming through. It is just the timing has let us down. I just wanted to apologize for that, set the scene. This is very unusual for us, so obviously we have to looked at this forensically to see what could we change and what could we have done differently, and there will be changes as a result. I will just give you a little bit more context about Fluent.

Speaker #2: We'd have missed; we were very determined to hit our numbers, but that shouldn't have made any difference. I still think, looking back, we could have projected a more cautious view a few months ago.

Speaker #2: But all the right intentions were there, and we were absolutely certain of our numbers of what's coming through. It's just the timing that has let us down.

Speaker #2: So I just wanted to apologize for that. Set the scene. And that has obviously been this is very unusual for us. So obviously, we have to sort of looked at this forensically to see what can be changed and what could have done differently.

Speaker #2: And there will be changes as a result. I'll just give you a little bit more context about Fluence. Just kicking off a little bit around why we took them on, because we invested in and acquired them to provide access to major digital lead sources that need to deal with big, centralized telephone operations—not local brokers.

Peter Brodnicki: I will just give you a little bit more context about Fluent. Just kicking off a little bit around why we took them on because we invested in and acquired them to drive access to major digital lead sources that need to deal with big, centralized telephone operations, not local brokers. At the time, the main lead sources were price comparison websites.

Peter Brodnicki: Just kicking off a little bit around why we took them on because we invested in and acquired them to drive access to major digital lead sources that need to deal with big, centralized telephone operations, not local brokers. At the time, the main lead sources were price comparison websites. But obviously, there was opportunities to extend that into other more significant areas where big data-led companies had access to millions and millions of homeowners and future homeowners and started to realize the value of their data. The mortgages obviously are a standout opportunity to monetize and build lifetime value for some of these models. Of course, we have been involved in quite some time now, securing building these relationships, securing these relationships, testing, learning, and understanding how we drive that lead flow into Fluent primarily in the first instance.

Speaker #2: At the time, the main lead sources were price comparison websites. But obviously, there are opportunities to extend that into other, more significant areas, where big data-led companies have access to millions and millions of homeowners and future homeowners.

Peter Brodnicki: But obviously, there was opportunities to extend that into other more significant areas where big data-led companies had access to millions and millions of homeowners and future homeowners and started to realize the value of their data. The mortgages obviously are a standout opportunity to monetize and build lifetime value for some of these models. Of course, we have been involved in quite some time now, securing building these relationships, securing these relationships, testing, learning, and understanding how we drive that lead flow into Fluent primarily in the first instance.

Speaker #2: And started to realize the value of their data. The mortgages, obviously, are a standout opportunity to monetize and build lifetime value—especially for some of these models.

Speaker #2: So, of course, we've been involved for quite some time now—securing and building these relationships, securing these relationships, testing and learning, and understanding how we drive that lead flow into Fluence, primarily in the first instance.

Speaker #2: But we were expecting a step-up, a significant step-up in four of those. We felt we could actually achieve—our target was to achieve £5 million of additional PBT from that step-up.

Peter Brodnicki: We were expecting a step up, a significant step up in four of those. We felt we could actually achieve, our target was to achieve GBP 5 million of additional PBT from that step up. In our budgets, we had GBP 3 million to give us a buffer. Well, that did not quite work out as planned, and for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Nevertheless, it is a postponement. One of those lead sources is now cutting in. We are expecting the final contract that we have not signed to be done in the next few weeks. The others, I expect us to have IT time and integration time and reprioritization in Q4, and probably one of those not until early part of Q1 from next year. It is an extremely good business. The strategy is absolutely right.

Speaker #2: In our budgets, we had $3 million to give us a buffer. Well, that didn't quite work out as planned, and for the reasons I mentioned earlier.

Speaker #2: But, nevertheless, it is a postponement. One of those lead sources is now cutting in. We're expecting the final contract that we haven't signed to be done in the next few weeks.

Speaker #2: And the others, I expect us to have IT time and integration time and reprioritization in Q4. And probably one of those, not until the early part of Q1 next year.

Peter Brodnicki: The others, I expect us to have IT time and integration time and reprioritization in Q4, and probably one of those not until early part of Q1 from next year. It is an extremely good business. The strategy is absolutely right. It is just such a big opportunity to capture not only in-market customers, but a lot of early researchers, and it is the only way of really doing that. We have been very patient and worked very closely and invested a lot of time and resource to nurture these relationships because any one of them in their own right could potentially generate 5% of the UK market in terms of lead flow.

Speaker #2: It's an extremely good business. The strategy is absolutely right. It's just such a big opportunity to capture not only in-market customers, but also a lot of early researchers.

Peter Brodnicki: It is just such a big opportunity to capture not only in-market customers, but a lot of early researchers, and it is the only way of really doing that. We have been very patient and worked very closely and invested a lot of time and resource to nurture these relationships because any one of them in their own right could potentially generate 5% of the UK market in terms of lead flow. These are obviously very serious considerations, and there are not many people that are in a position to be able to leverage these opportunities, and we have put ourselves in pole position to do that. There has been an investment in time, in cost, in scaling up Fluent to have the resources in place for when the anticipated lead flow came in.

Speaker #2: And it's the only way of really doing that. So we have created—we have been very patient and worked very closely, and invested a lot of time and resources to nurture these relationships.

Speaker #2: Because any one of them, in their own right, could potentially generate 5% of the UK market in terms of lead flow. So these are obviously very serious considerations, and there are not many people who are in a position to be able to leverage these opportunities.

Peter Brodnicki: These are obviously very serious considerations, and there are not many people that are in a position to be able to leverage these opportunities, and we have put ourselves in pole position to do that. There has been an investment in time, in cost, in scaling up Fluent to have the resources in place for when the anticipated lead flow came in.

Speaker #2: And we've put ourselves in pole position to do that. So there has been an investment in time and cost in putting, and scaling up, Fluence to have the resources in place for when the anticipated lead flow came in.

Speaker #2: So we are probably carrying right now £1.5 million of unutilized costs within Fluence, which had to be in place to deal with the volume.

Peter Brodnicki: We are probably carrying right now GBP 1.5 million of unutilized cost within Fluent, which had to be in place to deal with the volume. Having worked so hard to get these relationships on, we wanted to make sure we could deal with it when they came in. One of the things we have decided to do as part of our learning experience here is to say, right, one of our problems is that Fluent will say 50 mortgage advisors will be high producing ones. There was too much expectation in terms of having to deal with that much lead flow for a business of that size. What we are going to do is to mitigate that moving forward. The mortgage arm of Fluent is going to be transferred into First Mortgage, which is our biggest, most successful business, which has three regional telephone centers.

Speaker #2: Having worked so hard to get these relationships on, we wanted to make sure we could deal with it when they came in. One of the things we've decided to do as part of our learning experience here is to say, right, one of the problems is that Fluence will say 50 mortgage advisors—it will be the high-producing ones.

Speaker #2: There was too much expectation in terms of having to deal with that much lead flow for a business of that size. So what we're going to do is mitigate that moving forward.

Peter Brodnicki: There was too much expectation in terms of having to deal with that much lead flow for a business of that size. What we are going to do is to mitigate that moving forward. The mortgage arm of Fluent is going to be transferred into First Mortgage, which is our biggest, most successful business, which has three regional telephone centers.

Speaker #2: The mortgage arm of Fluence is going to be transferred into First Mortgages, which is our biggest and most successful business. First Mortgages has three regional telephone centers.

Speaker #2: This will be a fourth one. It means now Fluence, rather than having 50 advisors, will be part of a single group, single process of 300 brokers.

Peter Brodnicki: This will be a fourth one. It means now Fluent, rather than having 50 advisors, will be part of a single group, a single process of 300 brokers. That means if we had that at the beginning of this year, we would not have had to put that resource in place for that influx of leads. We would have had a lot more flexibility. It also means a lot of efficiency aligning with one process, one business, and then we will keep Fluent to do what they always did originally and do very well, and they are still very profitable, which is second charge and bridging business as a specialist brand. That is one of the changes that we are making to make sure that this does not happen again.

Speaker #2: That means, if we had that at the beginning of this year, we wouldn't have had to put that resource in place for that influx of leads.

Speaker #2: We would have had a lot more flexibility. But it also means a lot of efficiency, aligning with one process, one business. And then we'll keep Fluence to do what they've always done originally, and do very well, and are still very profitable—which is second charge and bridging business as a specialist brand.

Speaker #2: So that's one of the changes that we're making to make sure that this doesn't happen again. And to ensure that as we get the next firms and opportunities that we've already got lined up for '27, we don't have this problem of expectations not being met because of timing.

Peter Brodnicki: That is one of the changes that we are making to make sure that this does not happen again. To ensure that as we get the next firms and opportunities that we have already got lined up for 2027, we do not have this problem of expectations not being met because of timing. Next year, talking to Joe, we are going to be even more cautious next year at putting sort of GBP 2 to 2.5 million in for Fluent, despite GBP 3 million this year being the pessimistic and the target being GBP 5 million, and also despite there being other lead flows that we expect to cut in next year.

Peter Brodnicki: To ensure that as we get the next firms and opportunities that we have already got lined up for 2027, we do not have this problem of expectations not being met because of timing. Next year, talking to Joe, we are going to be even more cautious next year at putting sort of GBP 2 to 2.5 million in for Fluent, despite GBP 3 million this year being the pessimistic and the target being GBP 5 million, and also despite there being other lead flows that we expect to cut in next year. Fingers burnt. We are going to do that as well as making that move across to Fluent.

Speaker #2: Next year, talking to Joe, we're sort of— we're going to be even more cautious next year, putting in sort of £2 to £2.5 million for Fluence.

Speaker #2: Despite $3 million this year being the pessimistic number and the target being $5 million, and also despite there being other lead flows that we expect to cut next year.

Speaker #2: So, fingers burnt, we are going to do that as well as make that move across to Fluence. The Fluence model acquisition is a key part of our strategy to access customers digitally, have access to millions of new potential and future customers who are in-market and pre-market, and drive new increased levels of refinancing outside of the organic refinancing that MAB does.

Peter Brodnicki: Fingers burnt. We are going to do that as well as making that move across to Fluent. The Fluent Money Group acquisition is a key part of our strategy to access customers digitally, have access to millions of new potential, and future customers that are in market and pre-market and drive new increased levels of refinancing outside the organic refinancing that MAB does. They have really helped us be in pole position with major digital partners.

Peter Brodnicki: The Fluent Money Group acquisition is a key part of our strategy to access customers digitally, have access to millions of new potential, and future customers that are in market and pre-market and drive new increased levels of refinancing outside the organic refinancing that MAB does. They have really helped us be in pole position with major digital partners. But the market worked against them as soon as we acquired them with the Liz Truss event. And obviously now the market is diverting people's resources into other priorities in the short term. Fundamentally, a good business, it is just going to have a longer lead in time to get us where we need to get to. But structurally and strategically, that is quite a big additional arm, and future growth area for the business. So that is my bit about obviously Fluent. I will obviously answer any questions at the end.

Speaker #2: They’ve really helped us be in pole position with major digital partners. But the market worked against them, which, as soon as we acquired them, will release trust event.

Peter Brodnicki: But the market worked against them as soon as we acquired them with the Liz Truss event. And obviously now the market is diverting people's resources into other priorities in the short term. Fundamentally, a good business, it is just going to have a longer lead in time to get us where we need to get to. But structurally and strategically, that is quite a big additional arm, and future growth area for the business. So that is my bit about obviously Fluent. I will obviously answer any questions at the end.

Speaker #2: And obviously, now the market is diverting people's resources into other priorities in the short term. But fundamentally, a good business is just going to have a longer lead-in time to get us where we need to get to.

Speaker #2: But structurally and strategically, that's quite a big additional arm and future growth area for the business. So that's my bit about Fluence. I will, of course, answer any questions at the end.

Speaker #2: The next slide is just talking about far more positive things that we're doing in the business. And to give you confidence, actually, despite an unfortunate year and performance, and a very low share price at the moment, the underlying story is very, very different.

Peter Brodnicki: The next slide is just talking about far more positive things that we are doing in the business. And to give you confidence actually despite unfortunate year performance and a very low share price at the moment, the underlying story is very, very different. But I can see optically how it might look differently to you. So first thing we are doing, not in any particular order, is we have been working this year on a rebrand for the business to enable us to have a wider reach, not just be Mortgage Advice Bureau, but MAB as we are generally known to in the industry, also by a lot of our customers. There will be a transition of MAB, Mortgage Advice Bureau for 12 months. In certain sectors, it will go straight to MAB, and then we will drop the Mortgage Advice Bureau part further down.

Speaker #2: But I can see, optically, how it might look differently to you. So, next thing—first thing we're doing, not in any particular order—is we've been working this year on a rebrand for the business to enable us to have a wider reach, not just be mortgage advisor, but MAB, as we're generally known to in the industry and also by a lot of our customers.

Peter Brodnicki: So first thing we are doing, not in any particular order, is we have been working this year on a rebrand for the business to enable us to have a wider reach, not just be Mortgage Advice Bureau, but MAB as we are generally known to in the industry, also by a lot of our customers. There will be a transition of MAB, Mortgage Advice Bureau for 12 months. In certain sectors, it will go straight to MAB, and then we will drop the Mortgage Advice Bureau part further down.

Speaker #2: We are transitioning MAB mortgage advisory for 12 months, and certain sectors will go straight to MAB. Then we'll drop the Mortgage Advice Bureau part further down.

Speaker #2: You'll see that, obviously, when we do that in November—our conference. And when we do that, we're also launching a refreshed appointed representative model, with significant new technology and AI aspects to it.

Peter Brodnicki: You will see that obviously when we do that in November at our conference. And when we do that, we are also launching a refreshed appointed representative model with significant new technology and AI aspects to it. We are also launching a franchise model. A lot of businesses now, I think, are concerned about the changes in the industry moving so fast. Can they keep up with them? A lot of the relationship with customers have been driven by advisors previously. Now it has to be driven by the business far more because there is a lot more being done with that customer outside the physical advice in its own right. And businesses need help to do that. And I think MAB's strategic partnership model is ideally positioned for businesses that need to change quickly and adapt their role in supporting their brokers.

Speaker #2: We're also launching a franchise model. A lot of businesses now, I think, are concerned about the changes in the industry moving so fast. Can they keep up with them?

Peter Brodnicki: Can they keep up with them? A lot of the relationship with customers have been driven by advisors previously. Now it has to be driven by the business far more because there is a lot more being done with that customer outside the physical advice in its own right. And businesses need help to do that. And I think MAB's strategic partnership model is ideally positioned for businesses that need to change quickly and adapt their role in supporting their brokers.

Speaker #2: A lot of the relationship with customers has been driven by advisors previously. Now, it has to be driven by the business far more, because there's a lot more being done with that customer outside the physical advice in its own right.

Speaker #2: And businesses need help to do that. And I think MAB's strategic partnership model is ideally positioned for businesses that need to change quickly and adapt their role in supporting their brokers.

Speaker #2: We do allow firms currently to use our brand, but we don't stipulate how they have to operate day to day. The franchise model will change that.

Peter Brodnicki: We do allow firms currently to use our brand, but we do not stipulate how they have to operate day-to-day. The franchise model will change that. It will mean they will have to align far more with our invested businesses. There will be more control in terms of system and process use. Therefore, that will impact quite significantly in the speed of productivity and performance in these firms. And there will be some firms with us that although they have got long contracts, will have to rebrand away from MAB because that might be not what they want to do. There will be others that will be absolutely delighted by this, and I think it will also be a big recruitment opportunity with the timing in the market and where the sensitivities are now and where the threats and opportunities in our sectors may lie.

Speaker #2: It will mean they will have to align far more of our invested businesses. There will be more control in terms of system and process use.

Speaker #2: Therefore, that will impact quite significantly the speed of productivity and performance in these firms. And there'll be some firms with us—although they've got long contracts—that will have to rebrand away from MAB, because that might not be what they want to do.

Peter Brodnicki: And there will be some firms with us that although they have got long contracts, will have to rebrand away from MAB because that might be not what they want to do. There will be others that will be absolutely delighted by this, and I think it will also be a big recruitment opportunity with the timing in the market and where the sensitivities are now and where the threats and opportunities in our sectors may lie.

Speaker #2: There'll be others that will be absolutely delighted by this. And I think we'll also see a big recruitment opportunity, considering the timing in the market, where sensitivities are now, and where the threats and opportunities in our sectors may lie.

Speaker #2: So, this year, just to give you context, we've been sitting back a little bit on the recruitment of new AR firms. Anything we've done is organic, although there's not been a lot of organic growth within the business to support that.

Peter Brodnicki: This year, just to give you context, we have been sitting back a little bit on the recruitment of new AR firms. Everything we have done is organic, although there is not been a lot of organic growth within the business to support that. The reason for that is there has been a bit of consolidation going ahead with a couple, what, two or three networks up for sale. That has been a market we are in for because we think the models are going to change moving forward. What was happening is firms that were looking to exit were starting to compete with ridiculous commercial terms in a market that are not sustainable. When you think you are going to be exiting at a multiple of 7, 8 or 9, whatever it might be, you are prepared to slash those margins and get that multiple or lower number if it helps your exit value.

Speaker #2: And the reason for that is there's been a bit of consolidation going ahead, with a couple—or two or three—networks up for sale.

Speaker #2: That's the market where, in Inforge, we think the models are going to change moving forward. But what was happening is firms that were looking to exit were starting to compete with ridiculous commercial terms in a market that aren't sustainable.

Peter Brodnicki: What was happening is firms that were looking to exit were starting to compete with ridiculous commercial terms in a market that are not sustainable. When you think you are going to be exiting at a multiple of 7, 8 or 9, whatever it might be, you are prepared to slash those margins and get that multiple or lower number if it helps your exit value.

Speaker #2: But when you think you're going to be exiting at a multiple of seven, eight, or nine—whatever it might be—you're prepared to slash those margins and get that multiple on a lower number if it helps your exit value.

Speaker #2: We've not been playing in that game whatsoever. We've stayed out of it. We've still got a few really good firms and a good pipeline building.

Peter Brodnicki: We have not been playing in that game whatsoever. We stayed out of it. We have still got a few really good firms and a good pipeline building. In November, we are doing a massive relaunch across social media and our industry, to reposition where we are, and we expect to have a very strong year next year on the back of it. Now that that sort of consolidation piece has dropped back a little bit in terms of the pricing and competitiveness out there. The team, again, I think you have obviously seen quite a lot of change in the last 12 months, and I want to give you some context around that too. Going back to the first biggest change was appointing Lady Cord Jaiser to join our board. It was replacing Ben, who was Deputy COO, but rather than being Deputy COO, she was going to be COO.

Speaker #2: But in November, we're doing a massive relaunch across social media and our industry to reposition where we are, and we expect to have a very strong year next year on the back of it.

Speaker #2: Now that sort of consolidation piece has dropped back a little bit in terms of the pricing and competitiveness out there. The team, again, I think you optically seen sort of quite a lot of change in the last 12 months.

Peter Brodnicki: Now that that sort of consolidation piece has dropped back a little bit in terms of the pricing and competitiveness out there. The team, again, I think you have obviously seen quite a lot of change in the last 12 months, and I want to give you some context around that too. Going back to the first biggest change was appointing Lady Cord Jaiser to join our board. It was replacing Ben, who was Deputy COO, but rather than being Deputy COO, she was going to be COO.

Speaker #2: And I want to give you some context around that too. So, going back, the first biggest change was appointing a lady called Geyser to join our board.

Speaker #2: She was replacing Ben, who was Deputy COO, but rather than being Deputy COO, she was going to be COO. We wanted someone with a lot of transformation experience.

Peter Brodnicki: We wanted someone with a lot of transformation experience of technology, data, and AI, because that was obviously increasingly driving our business model. We really upped the game in terms of the quality of the individual we brought in. We waited six months for her, brought her in. Ben stepped aside to focus on MAB 3.0. She did a full analysis of our entire business from beginning to end, which was excellent and exactly what we needed and what we brought her in for, highlighting some of the changes we would need to make, which a lot of those we sort of understood we had to anyway. It was good to see the rationale behind it. She was not the right fit for us culturally as a business.

Speaker #2: Experience of technology, data, and AI, because that is obviously increasingly driving our business model. We really upped the game in terms of the quality of the individuals we brought in.

Speaker #2: We waited six months for her, brought her in. Ben stepped aside to focus on MAB 3.0. She did a full analysis of our entire business from beginning to end, which was excellent.

Speaker #2: And exactly what we needed, and what we brought her in for—highlighting some of the changes we would need to make, which a lot of those, we sort of understood we had to anyway.

Speaker #2: But it was good to see the rationale behind it. However, she was not the right fit for us culturally as a business. At one point, I was considering that she could be a successor in due course for me.

Peter Brodnicki: It was good to see the rationale behind it. She was not the right fit for us culturally as a business. At one point, I was considering that she could be a successor in due course for me, years down the line. I could see that was not going to work, and so we had to part company. That was not the right decision. So it was a shame because she was an excellent addition to the team, but unfortunately, the culture and the fit with the rest of my team is way more important.

Peter Brodnicki: At one point, I was considering that she could be a successor in due course for me, years down the line. I could see that was not going to work, and so we had to part company. That was not the right decision. So it was a shame because she was an excellent addition to the team, but unfortunately, the culture and the fit with the rest of my team is way more important. Since then, we have adapted our strategy in terms of who we will need to bring on. I am not replacing anybody on board level, so we are keeping it free. We brought an outstanding lady in called Renee to be our CDIO. So she is running technology and data. She is absolutely, completely revitalized what we are doing and how we are doing it, and I can now see exactly what we can achieve with the significant resource that we have got.

Speaker #2: Years down the line, I could see that was not going to work, and so we had to part company. That was not the right decision.

Speaker #2: So, it was a shame because she was an excellent addition to the team, but unfortunately, the culture and the fit with the rest of my team are way more important.

Speaker #2: Since then, we've adapted our strategy in terms of who we need to bring on. I'm not replacing anybody at board level, so we're keeping it free.

Peter Brodnicki: Since then, we have adapted our strategy in terms of who we will need to bring on. I am not replacing anybody on board level, so we are keeping it free. We brought an outstanding lady in called Renee to be our CDIO. So she is running technology and data. She is absolutely, completely revitalized what we are doing and how we are doing it, and I can now see exactly what we can achieve with the significant resource that we have got.

Speaker #2: We've brought in an outstanding lady called Renee to be our CDIO. So she's running technology and data. She's absolutely, completely revitalized what we're doing and how we're doing it.

Speaker #2: And I can now see exactly what we can achieve with the significant resources that we have got. She's brought in the data team. She's brought a fantastic Head of Product, and other key roles underneath her.

Peter Brodnicki: She brought in the data team. She brought a fantastic head of product and other key roles underneath her. It is transformational in terms of what we are already seeing and the output that is already coming out from that team. We are extremely happy with that appointment, which makes no need for us now to replace Jaiser. That is a really positive move. We have also brought in a new CMO. We needed to change that because technology, data, AI, marketing, brand, and lead generation, which is what that is all about, are very closely aligned. Again, we have got a new gentleman just joined us there called John Woods. Exceptional, and again, working with that team and Renee's team will make a significant difference in the way we are attracting and nurturing and using AI to capture and drive customer relationships. Very happy with that.

Speaker #2: And it is transformation in terms of what we're already seeing, and the output that's already coming out from that team. So we're extremely happy with that appointment.

Speaker #2: It just means there's no need for us now to repeat or replace Geyser. So that's a really positive move. We've also brought in a new CMO.

Peter Brodnicki: We have also brought in a new CMO. We needed to change that because technology, data, AI, marketing, brand, and lead generation, which is what that is all about, are very closely aligned. Again, we have got a new gentleman just joined us there called John Woods. Exceptional, and again, working with that team and Renee's team will make a significant difference in the way we are attracting and nurturing and using AI to capture and drive customer relationships. Very happy with that.

Speaker #2: We needed to change that because technology, data, and AI and marketing and brand and lead generation, which is what that's all about, are very closely aligned.

Speaker #2: Again, we've got a new gentleman who has just joined us, called John Woods—exceptional. And again, he's working with that team and Renee's team, which will make a significant difference in the way we are attracting and nurturing, and using AI to capture and drive customer relationships.

Speaker #2: So, very happy with that. We obviously made a change. Obviously, you'll see Joe here rather than Emily. The change there happened—I think it was a pressure point, really—because Emily came; she was a fantastic lady, came in, but without listed company experience.

Peter Brodnicki: We obviously made a change. You will see Joe here rather than Emily. The change there happened, I think it was a pressure point really, because Emily came, she was a fantastic lady, came in but without listed company experience. We felt that would not be an issue at the time with the other skill set she had. If you think what she had to do in the last 12 months, where we had two capital markets based, two sets of results, a move to main market, and nine investments, that was a lot for her to take on. She lives remotely. Following discussions with Emily, she has moved to do something probably less pressurized. We have replaced with Jo, who obviously has got listed company experience and has taken over the baton there, has been a great addition to the team in all fairness.

Speaker #2: But we felt that wouldn't be an issue at the time, given the other skill set she had. But if you think about what she had to do in the last 12 months—where we had two Capital Markets Days, two sets of results, a move to the Main Market, and nine investments—that was a lot for her to take on.

Speaker #2: She lives remotely, and following discussions with Emily, she's moved to do something probably less pressurized. We've placed her with Joe, who obviously has listed company experience and has taken over the baton there.

Peter Brodnicki: She lives remotely. Following discussions with Emily, she has moved to do something probably less pressurized. We have replaced with Jo, who obviously has got listed company experience and has taken over the baton there, has been a great addition to the team in all fairness. We have also made other key appointments. We have looked at everything right from the top, board, non-execs, exec board. We have even looked down right through to our invested businesses, where when we invest in those firms, we have run them all autonomously up till now.

Speaker #2: Has been a great addition to the team, in all fairness. We've also made other key appointments. We've looked at everything right from the top: board, non-execs, exec board.

Peter Brodnicki: We have also made other key appointments. We have looked at everything right from the top, board, non-execs, exec board. We have even looked down right through to our invested businesses, where when we invest in those firms, we have run them all autonomously up till now. This year, we were looking to synergize some of those costs and centralize those. We are doing more than that now. You may have got an indication about what I said about Fluent Money and First Mortgage. We are now taking our two biggest leaders, most successful leaders, and arguably the best leaders in our industry, which is Ian McGrath of First Mortgage and Matt Coulson at Heron, and we are consolidating our businesses into two super groups. One is a new build group, so four firms into one. We have already merged two.

Speaker #2: And we've even looked right through to our invested businesses, where, when we invest in those firms, we've run them all autonomously up till now.

Speaker #2: This year, we were looking to synergize some of those costs and centralize those. We're doing more than that now. You might have got an indication of that from what I said about Blue Internet and first mortgages.

Peter Brodnicki: This year, we were looking to synergize some of those costs and centralize those. We are doing more than that now. You may have got an indication about what I said about Fluent Money and First Mortgage. We are now taking our two biggest leaders, most successful leaders, and arguably the best leaders in our industry, which is Ian McGrath of First Mortgage and Matt Coulson at Heron, and we are consolidating our businesses into two super groups. One is a new build group, so four firms into one. We have already merged two.

Speaker #2: We're now taking our two biggest leaders, most successful leaders, and arguably the best leaders in our industry—which are Ian McGraw of First Mortgage and Matt Colson of Heron.

Speaker #2: And we are consolidating our businesses into two super groups. One is a new build group—so four firms into one. We've already merged two.

Speaker #2: We're now bringing Matt's firm into that and giving them CEO responsibility for the group. And another firm, and we've already, obviously, been consolidating other businesses this year into First Mortgages.

Peter Brodnicki: We are now bringing Matt's firm into that and giving him CEO responsibility for the group and another firm. We have already obviously been consolidating other businesses this year into First Mortgage, and obviously Fluent Mortgages is latest addition to that. We are now bringing those two leaders into our exec team as well, so they are part of how the group works, and Matt is also part of our technology strategy because he has been leading on that in his business and on our new launches, et cetera. Literally, we have been looking at absolutely everything. We needed to bring a lot more expertise in of people that worked in industries which are not people led. Everything in our industry has been people led, whether it is the lead generation from an estate agency member of staff, whether it is the broker, the administrator, everything is very people intensive.

Speaker #2: And obviously, Fluence Mortgage ARM is the latest addition to that. We're now bringing those two leaders into our exec team as well, so they're part of how the whole group works. And Matt is also part of our technology strategy.

Speaker #2: Obviously, he's been leading on that in his business, and on the new launches, etc. So literally, we've been looking at absolutely everything. And we've needed to bring in a lot more expertise from people who have worked in industries that aren't people-led.

Peter Brodnicki: Literally, we have been looking at absolutely everything. We needed to bring a lot more expertise in of people that worked in industries which are not people led. Everything in our industry has been people led, whether it is the lead generation from an estate agency member of staff, whether it is the broker, the administrator, everything is very people intensive.

Speaker #2: Everything in our industry has been people-led. Whether it's the lead generation from an estate agency, a member of staff, whether it is the broker or the administrator, everything is very people-intensive.

Speaker #2: We needed experience at a high level from people who have worked in non-human engagement methods. Someone like Renee, who deals with Sky, CTM, Component Market, and others.

Peter Brodnicki: We needed experience at high level of people that worked in a non-human engagement method. Someone like Renee dealing with Sky and CTM, Compare the Market, and others shows you that they know how to engage digitally, how to build that trust. We obviously need to do that to be able to balance that out with the human aspect that we've got in the business. I can assure you, however it looks on the outside, it is an extremely positive place. You speak to anybody at MAB now, they'll look at that team and go, "We're working so well together as well." I've never been more confident. I've taken all those reports back myself rather than passing some reports back to Jaiser, who was my COO previously, and that's worked really well, too. That's positive.

Speaker #2: This shows you that they know how to engage digitally and how to build that trust. Obviously, we need to do that to balance it out with the human aspect that we've got in the business.

Speaker #2: So I can assure you, I haven't looked on the outside. It is an extremely positive place. And if you speak to anybody at MAB now, they'll look at that team and say, we're working so well together as well.

Peter Brodnicki: You speak to anybody at MAB now, they'll look at that team and go, "We're working so well together as well." I've never been more confident. I've taken all those reports back myself rather than passing some reports back to Jaiser, who was my COO previously, and that's worked really well, too. That's positive.

Speaker #2: So I've never been more confident. I've taken all those reports back myself, rather than passing some reports back to Geyser, who was my COO previously.

Speaker #2: And that's worked really well too, so that's positive. The last bit I want to sort of talk about in any detail is AI, because we get it raised all the time.

Peter Brodnicki: The last bit I want to sort of talk about in any detail is AI, because we get it raised all the time. As you can imagine, the last set of road shows, I don't think there was a meeting I went past or went through that it wasn't raised. Let me talk a little bit about where we're seeing the real benefit. We've built considerable reach. We've got 3,500 estate agents, which is the biggest lettings distribution that we can't access without technology and haven't been able to for 25 years. We did 23% of new build and growing. We're now in pole position for these big national digital lead flows.

Speaker #2: As you can imagine, our last set of broad shows—I don't think there was a meeting I went through that it wasn't raised.

Speaker #2: So let me talk a little bit about where we're seeing the real benefit. We've built considerable reach. I mean, we've got three and a half thousand estate agents.

Speaker #2: The biggest lettings distribution that we can't access without technology, and haven't been able to for 25 years. We did 23% of new build and growing.

Peter Brodnicki: We did 23% of new build and growing. We're now in pole position for these big national digital lead flows. What we've been testing with Fluent and their lead flows this year, which has been really positive, is like others have, is using AI bots to engage with customers, to triage them far more effectively, to make sure when they get to broker, they're going to the broker for the right reasons rather than just filling in loads of questions and being diverted to a broker online.

Speaker #2: We now find ourselves in pole position for these big national digital lead flows. What we've been testing with Fluence and their lead flows this year—which has been really positive—is, like others have, using AI bots to engage with customers and triage them far more effectively. This makes sure that, when they get to a broker, they're going to the broker for the right reason, rather than just asking another question and being diverted to a broker online.

Peter Brodnicki: What we've been testing with Fluent and their lead flows this year, which has been really positive, is like others have, is using AI bots to engage with customers, to triage them far more effectively, to make sure when they get to broker, they're going to the broker for the right reasons rather than just filling in loads of questions and being diverted to a broker online. Customers have really engaged brilliantly with them, and we can start to have far more open conversations with those customers to find out are they ready for a broker? Do they need more digital engagements? More and more customers want to do more online before seeing a broker, or are they just early researchers, and how can we help them? What type of nurture journey can we put them on?

Speaker #2: And customers have really engaged brilliantly with them, and we can start to have far more open conversations with those customers to find out, are they ready for a broker?

Peter Brodnicki: Customers have really engaged brilliantly with them, and we can start to have far more open conversations with those customers to find out are they ready for a broker? Do they need more digital engagements? More and more customers want to do more online before seeing a broker, or are they just early researchers, and how can we help them? What type of nurture journey can we put them on?

Speaker #2: Do they need more digital engagement? More and more customers want to do more online before seeing a broker. Or are they just early researchers?

Speaker #2: And how can we help them, and what type of nurture journey can we put them on? What we're now going to use that technology for—and the testing that we've done—is to drop it into our more traditional lead sources, obviously estate agency and new build.

Peter Brodnicki: What we're now going to use that technology for, the testing that we've done, is to drop it into our more traditional lead sources of estate agency and new build. I'll take estate agency just as one example. We get all our leads from human beings, in negotiators and estate agency branches. We only get around 25% of the opportunities we should do. The reason we know we only get 25% is because the vast majority of estate agents are introducers. They're introduced to a local broker. They don't run their own financial services. We have got some really big estate agency firms that do run their own financial services, and they generate probably 3 times plus the number of leads and opportunities from the same level of activity. It's because they've got that ownership. It's their brokers.

Speaker #2: So I'll take a state agency just as one example. We get all our leads from human beings, negotiators in estate agency branches.

Speaker #2: We only get around 25% of the opportunities we should do. And the reason we know we only get 25% is because the vast majority of the estate agents are introduced to a local broker.

Peter Brodnicki: They're introduced to a local broker. They don't run their own financial services. We have got some really big estate agency firms that do run their own financial services, and they generate probably 3 times plus the number of leads and opportunities from the same level of activity. It's because they've got that ownership. It's their brokers.

Speaker #2: They don't run their own financial services, but we have got some really big estate agency firms that do run their own financial services. And they generate probably three times—plus—the number of leads and opportunities from the same level of activity.

Speaker #2: And it's because they've got that ownership—it's their brokers. There's a cost base there rather than just a potential income stream, so the culture is very different.

Peter Brodnicki: There's a cost base there rather than just a potential income stream. So the culture is very different. You're not going to change that situation in introduced relationships. But dropping AI bots into that environment is exactly what we're now starting to do. Property Franchise Group, obviously a listed business, part of our group, has been testing that, too, and getting some good early success. I see it as a real unlock opportunity. Even though housing transactions are at 1.1 million, well below their average, we can unlock so much more out of what we've had. For 25 years, we've been hampered. We've not been able to do that. The whole lettings market with future first-time buyers and landlords, that same AI strategy will be deployed there.

Speaker #2: And you're not going to change that situation by introducing relationships, but dropping AI bots into that environment is exactly what we're now starting to do.

Speaker #2: The property franchise group, obviously a listed business and part of our group, has been testing that too and seeing some good early success. So, I see it as a real unlock opportunity.

Speaker #2: Even though housing transactions are at around 1.1 million, well below their average, we can unlock so much more out of what we've had.

Peter Brodnicki: Even though housing transactions are at 1.1 million, well below their average, we can unlock so much more out of what we've had. For 25 years, we've been hampered. We've not been able to do that. The whole lettings market with future first-time buyers and landlords, that same AI strategy will be deployed there.

Speaker #2: But for 25 years, we've been hampered. We've not been able to do that. And the whole lettings market—with future first-time buyers and landlords—that same AI strategy will be deployed there.

Speaker #2: So, we see that as a really big opportunity to take the unique reach and coverage we've got across all sectors to drive a lot more lead flow out.

Peter Brodnicki: We see that as a really big opportunity to take the unique reach and coverage we've got across all sectors to drive a lot more lead flow out. Of course, when you're dealing with these big digital partners that Fluent deal with, they're all digital leads. Of course, we use that functionality there, but we now need to use it in that traditionally human-led area of the business. That's a real positive for us. In terms of potential comments about AI disrupting the role of the mortgage broker, AI itself is not a disruptor. It's fairly toothless, to be fair. It's got to be part of an organization or a business that has to have extensive customer reach and scalable reach, both pre and post market. Otherwise, you can't deploy it. There's got to be a compelling customer proposition. There's got to be trust.

Speaker #2: And of course, when you're dealing with these big digital partners that Fluent deals with, they're all digital leads. So, of course, we use that functionality there, but we now need to use it in that traditionally human-led area of the business.

Speaker #2: So that's a real positive for us. And in terms of potential comments about AI disrupting the role of the mortgage broker, AI itself is not a disruptor.

Speaker #2: It's fairly toothless, to be fair. It's got to be part of an organization or a business that has extensive customer reach and scalable reach.

Peter Brodnicki: It's fairly toothless, to be fair. It's got to be part of an organization or a business that has to have extensive customer reach and scalable reach, both pre and post market. Otherwise, you can't deploy it. There's got to be a compelling customer proposition. There's got to be trust. There's got to be the right culture. There's got to be exceptional people. There's got to be strong strategic leadership. The business has to be well resourced. It has to be able to have very strong data sets, and we've got extraordinary data sets within MAB over the years we've been building.

Speaker #2: Both pre- and post-market. Otherwise, you can't deploy it. It's got to be a compelling customer proposition. There's got to be trust. There's got to be the right culture.

Peter Brodnicki: There's got to be the right culture. There's got to be exceptional people. There's got to be strong strategic leadership. The business has to be well resourced. It has to be able to have very strong data sets, and we've got extraordinary data sets within MAB over the years we've been building. When you add AI into that's where you start leveraging AI. AI itself won't achieve anything unless you have that around you. Of course, what we're now using AI for is to be able to communicate with customers weeks, months, years before they're in market to triage them effectively like I mentioned earlier, rather than it just being a transactional business where a human being talks to a human being at the point where they may need a mortgage.

Speaker #2: There have got to be exceptional people. There has to be strong strategic leadership. The business must be well-resourced, and it needs to have very, very strong data sets.

Speaker #2: And we've got extraordinary data sets within MAB over the years we've been developing, we've been building. So, when you add AI into that, that's where you start leveraging AI.

Peter Brodnicki: When you add AI into that's where you start leveraging AI. AI itself won't achieve anything unless you have that around you. Of course, what we're now using AI for is to be able to communicate with customers weeks, months, years before they're in market to triage them effectively like I mentioned earlier, rather than it just being a transactional business where a human being talks to a human being at the point where they may need a mortgage.

Speaker #2: AI itself won't achieve anything unless you have the right environment around you. And, of course, what we're now using AI for is to be able to communicate with customers weeks, months, or years before they're in market, to triage them effectively as mentioned.

Speaker #2: Like I mentioned earlier, rather than it just being a transactional business where a human being talks to a human being at the point where they may need a mortgage, this opens up the value of MAB as a brand—as a research brand—to engage with customers earlier on, later on, during the transaction, in a number of different ways and services.

Peter Brodnicki: This opens up the value of MAB as a brand, as a research brand to engage your customers earlier on, later on, during the transaction in a number of different ways and services. It extends the reach of what we can do quite significantly. It can also improve performance far better by giving those customer insights that drives the behavior on our platform. In terms of the brokers, it can increase efficiency. It is starting to do, and we've got a lot more to do on that, but that can increase efficiency and generate cost savings within head office and all our firms, not just the advisors, but their administrators as well. It also helps us extend our proposition into other areas far more effectively rather than relying everything to be funneled through a broker.

Speaker #2: It extends the reach of what we can do quite significantly. It can also improve performance far better by giving those customer insights that drive behavior on our platform in terms of the brokers.

Speaker #2: It can increase efficiency, and it is starting to do so. We've got a lot more to accomplish in that area, but it can increase efficiency and generate cost savings within head office and all our firms—not just for the advisors, but their administrators as well.

Peter Brodnicki: It is starting to do, and we've got a lot more to do on that, but that can increase efficiency and generate cost savings within head office and all our firms, not just the advisors, but their administrators as well. It also helps us extend our proposition into other areas far more effectively rather than relying everything to be funneled through a broker.

Speaker #2: And it also helps us extend our proposition into other areas far more effectively, rather than relying on everything to be funneled through a broker. So those are things I think are fantastic for us as a business opportunity.

Peter Brodnicki: Those are things I think are fantastic for us as a business opportunity. The one bit, which is about AI being a threat, it basically relates to will AI mean that customers go direct to lenders more? That is the only threat. That is it. Our view is, and a lot of research we have done as well is that right now at least, customers really want to do a lot more online. Do not confuse that with going direct to lender. They want to be empowered to do a lot more. They already do a lot of research before seeing a broker. AI enables them to do that more, give them more certainty before they see a broker. It also helps them to reduce down the relationship, that conversation with the broker as well.

Speaker #2: The one bit, which is about AI being a threat, basically relates to: will AI mean that customers go directly to lenders more?

Speaker #2: That's the only threat—that's it. And our view is, based on a lot of research we've done as well, that right now at least, customers really want to do a lot more online.

Speaker #2: But don't confuse that with going directly to a lender. They want to be empowered to do a lot more. They already do a lot of research before seeing a broker.

Peter Brodnicki: They already do a lot of research before seeing a broker. AI enables them to do that more, give them more certainty before they see a broker. It also helps them to reduce down the relationship, that conversation with the broker as well. They might just have light touch advice because that is all they need, and reassurance, and checking they have got the right deal. A lot more technology will be used to get that customer to a point where they can probably proceed before they even speak to a broker.

Speaker #2: AI enables us to do that more, give them more certainty before they see a broker, and also to reduce down the relationship—that conversation—with the broker as well.

Speaker #2: They might just need light-touch advice because that's all they require: reassurance and checking that they’ve got the right deal. A lot more technology will be used to get that customer to a point where they can probably proceed, even before they speak to a broker.

Peter Brodnicki: They might just have light touch advice because that is all they need, and reassurance, and checking they have got the right deal. A lot more technology will be used to get that customer to a point where they can probably proceed before they even speak to a broker. Equally, there are segments of customers that can go direct because they will be able to do the same sort of thing we are pushing our customers through, driving our customers through. Then we can also present that business direct to lender. I see the future being that MAB will be a funnel for all customers to research at whatever stage of that research cycle they are in, whether they are in market or pre-market.

Speaker #2: But equally, if there are segments of customers that can go direct, because they will be able to do the same sort of thing—where we're pushing our customers through, driving our customers through—then we can also present that business direct to lender.

Peter Brodnicki: Equally, there are segments of customers that can go direct because they will be able to do the same sort of thing we are pushing our customers through, driving our customers through. Then we can also present that business direct to lender. I see the future being that MAB will be a funnel for all customers to research at whatever stage of that research cycle they are in, whether they are in market or pre-market.

Speaker #2: And I see the future being that MAB will be a funnel for all customers to research whatever stage of that research cycle they're in, wherever they're in market or pre-market, and driving those people in not just a research mode, but then when they're active, either to go to a broker for light touch advice, for more hand-holding advice, which a lot of people are still going to need with more complex mortgage and financial literacy being where it is, and also driving business direct to lenders, fully packaged, already underwritten, accepted to a large extent, and the discussion we're having with lenders is they'll welcome that business and pay us for it.

Peter Brodnicki: Driving those people in not just a research mode, but then when they are active, either to go to a broker for light touch advice or more handholding advice, which a lot of people are still going to need with more complex mortgage and financial literacy being where it is. Also driving business direct to lenders, fully packaged, fully underwritten, accepted to a large extent. The discussion we are having with lenders is they will welcome that business and pay us for it, whether that has gone through an advice route or potentially if it has gone through an automated route. It is not automated advice, it is a very well-packaged case for that customer. I still think that that will be a minimal number of people. The point is that threat is one we can embrace and actually open up the opportunities that we actually have as a business as well.

Peter Brodnicki: The discussion we are having with lenders is they will welcome that business and pay us for it, whether that has gone through an advice route or potentially if it has gone through an automated route. It is not automated advice, it is a very well-packaged case for that customer. I still think that that will be a minimal number of people. The point is that threat is one we can embrace and actually open up the opportunities that we actually have as a business as well.

Speaker #2: Whether that's gone through an advisory route or, potentially, if it's gone through an automated route, it's not automated advice. It's a very well-packaged case for that customer.

Speaker #2: I still think that will be a minimal number of people, but the point is that the threat is one we can embrace and actually open up the opportunities that we have as a business as well.

Speaker #2: And at the same time, make sure we keep the protection as part of that referral, because that is very much always going to need human involvement—customers don't understand they need it.

Peter Brodnicki: At the same time, make sure we keep the protection as part of that referral, because that is very much always going to need a human involvement because customers do not understand they need it. Also, what we also got to remember is that if we do push a mortgage into a lender, we will still monitor that mortgage and tell them when to leave that lender, which that lender will not. The next transaction might not be as simple. Might want to capital raise, get a second property. Whatever it might be, the situation may have changed. In the same way someone we did give advice to initially, their circumstances could change, they will not need advice next time. This is not putting people in boxes and thinking they are all going to go down this one route.

Speaker #2: And also, what we have to remember is that if we do push a mortgage to a lender, we'll still monitor that mortgage and tell them when to leave that lender—which that lender won't.

Speaker #2: And their next transaction might not be as simple. They might want to raise capital, get a second property—whatever it might be, their situation may have changed.

Peter Brodnicki: Might want to capital raise, get a second property. Whatever it might be, the situation may have changed. In the same way someone we did give advice to initially, their circumstances could change, they will not need advice next time. This is not putting people in boxes and thinking they are all going to go down this one route.

Speaker #2: In the same way, someone who did give advice initially, circumstances could change. They won't need advice next time. So this is not about putting people in boxes and thinking they're all going to go down this one route.

Speaker #2: If you also think, if you're a customer doing a lot of research and there's 100-plus lenders to deal with, and you can only think of eight, most clients will be able to name more than eight lenders, and probably most of half that.

Peter Brodnicki: If you also think if you are a customer doing a lot of research and there is 100 plus lenders to deal with and you can only think of eight, or most clients will be able to name more than eight lenders, probably less, most half that. You are never going to go to a lender outside of that eight, because as much as you want to research, you are not going to deal with a lender you have not heard of. A broker can recommend any lender, and the client will follow their advice, even if they only started trading today. Whereas actually, if you are researching and you have got the confidence to want to go direct, you have got very simplistic needs, you are probably going to stick with someone that you understand and trust, or think you trust. I think that is not good for the customer.

Speaker #2: You're never going to go to a lender outside of that eight, because as much as you want to research, you're not going to deal with a lender you've not heard of.

Speaker #2: A broker can recommend any lender, and a client will follow their advice, even if they only started trading today. Whereas actually, if you're researching and you've got the confidence to want to go direct, and you've got very simplistic needs, you're probably going to stick with someone that you understand and trust.

Peter Brodnicki: Whereas actually, if you are researching and you have got the confidence to want to go direct, you have got very simplistic needs, you are probably going to stick with someone that you understand and trust, or think you trust. I think that is not good for the customer. We have got to still give them that choice, even if they decide to go direct to lender. We thought all this through and there are so many clear benefits, but also there is a threat, and we need to turn that threat into an opportunity.

Speaker #2: Or think you trust. So I think that's not good for the customer. We've got to still give them that choice, even if they have to decide to go direct to lender.

Peter Brodnicki: We have got to still give them that choice, even if they decide to go direct to lender. We thought all this through and there are so many clear benefits, but also there is a threat, and we need to turn that threat into an opportunity. I think for a group of MAB size, maybe not a small local broker, but a group of MAB size, we can work with lenders to do that. They are willing to work with us on it as well. Look, that is everything. Done a lot of talking. I wanted to give you just context around what we have been through and where we are heading and give you confidence in what we are doing. I am now ready to answer any questions, as are the rest of the team.

Speaker #2: So we've thought all this through, and there are so many clear benefits. But also, there is a threat, and we need to turn that threat into an opportunity.

Speaker #2: And I think for a group of MAB's size—maybe not a small local broker—but a group of MAB's size, we can work with lenders to do that.

Peter Brodnicki: I think for a group of MAB size, maybe not a small local broker, but a group of MAB size, we can work with lenders to do that. They are willing to work with us on it as well. Look, that is everything. Done a lot of talking. I wanted to give you just context around what we have been through and where we are heading and give you confidence in what we are doing. I am now ready to answer any questions, as are the rest of the team.

Speaker #2: And they will need to work with us on it as well. So look, that's everything. I've done a lot of talking, but I wanted to give you some context around what we've been through and where we're heading, and give you confidence in what we're doing.

Speaker #2: And I'm now ready to answer any questions, as are the rest of the team.

Speaker #1: Perfect. Thank you for updating investors today. Could I please remind investors to submit your questions by using the Q&A tab situated in the right-hand corner of your screen?

Operator: Perfect. Thank you for updating investors today. Can I please remind investors to submit your questions just by using the Q&A tab situated on the right-hand corner of your screen. For your reference, a recording of today's presentation will be available in the Investor Meet Company platform shortly after the meeting is ended. As you can see, we have received a number of questions during today's presentation. Mark, if I could just come back to you at this point to read out the questions and give responses where appropriate to do so, and I will pick up from you at the end.

Speaker #1: And for your reference, the recording of today's presentation will be available on the Investor Meet Company platform shortly after the meeting has ended. As you can see, we have received a number of questions during today's presentation.

Speaker #1: So, Mark, if I could just hand back to you at this point to read out the questions and give responses where appropriate to do so, and I'll pick up from you at the end.

Speaker #2: Sure, thank you. We won't go through the Outlook slide in detail. Peter's covered much of it, but I'll just leave it there whilst we walk through the Q&A.

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Sure. Thank you. We will not go through the outlook slide in detail. Peter has covered much of it, but I will just leave it there whilst we walk through the Q&A.

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Sure. Thank you. We will not go through the outlook slide in detail. Peter has covered much of it, but I will just leave it there whilst we walk through the Q&A.

Speaker #3: Just one quick point, Mark. I'll point out the outlook. The only thing we haven't really talked about is that we know we definitely got a 30% uplift in product end dates and therefore refinancing opportunities in 2027.

Peter Brodnicki: Just one quick point, Mark, I would point out of the outlook, everything is assumed. The only thing we have not really talked about is that we know we have definitely got a 30% uplift in product end dates and therefore refinancing opportunities in 2027. Everything we expected to refinance this year happened. Everything we expect next year will happen. We are expecting a completely flat market at 1.1 million transactions, which is near Liz Truss' low of about 1 million. So, there is caution throughout the numbers right now.

Speaker #3: Everything we expected to refinance this year happened. Everything we expect next year will happen. We're expecting a completely flat market at 1.1 million transactions, which is near the trough—low of about a million.

Speaker #3: So there's caution throughout the numbers right now.

Speaker #2: Okay, first question, which combines a couple of questions around influence: Is the business profitable? Do you expect Fluent's outturn this year to be better than last year?

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay. First question combines a couple of questions around Fluent. Is the business profitable? Do you expect Fluent outturn this year to be better than last year? Looking to 2027, how much Fluent contribution is there in your group step-up for 2027?

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay. First question combines a couple of questions around Fluent. Is the business profitable? Do you expect Fluent outturn this year to be better than last year? Looking to 2027, how much Fluent contribution is there in your group step-up for 2027?

Speaker #2: And looking to 2027, how much Fluent contribution is there in your group step-up for 2027?

Speaker #3: Yeah, so Fluent as a group will make over £6 million profit this year. Not where we want it to be, obviously. It won't be better than last year.

Peter Brodnicki: Yeah. So Fluent as a group will make over GBP 6 million profit this year. Not where we want it to be, obviously. It will not be better than last year, and the reason for that is that we have not had the growth in mortgages. The growth was going to come in the mortgage side, probably not in the second charge or bridging side this year, predominantly mortgages. So we have incurred all the cost in mortgages, but we have not had the lead flow to be able to monetize it. So that sort of puts mortgages in a backward position for 12 months, but obviously we talked about the mitigating factors for that moving forward.

Speaker #3: And the reason for that is that we haven't had the growth in mortgages. The growth was going to come in the mortgage side, probably not in the second charge or bridging side this year—predominantly mortgages.

Speaker #3: So we've incurred all the cost in mortgages, but we've not had the lead flow to be able to monetize it. So that sort of puts mortgages in a backward position for 12 months, but obviously we've talked about the mitigating factors for that moving forward.

Peter Brodnicki: So that sort of puts mortgages in a backward position for 12 months, but obviously we talked about the mitigating factors for that moving forward. We still expect the mortgage element, as we talked earlier, even further cut down our budget for next year with extreme caution, sort of around GBP 2 million to GBP 2.5 million for Fluent in addition to what they have done this year. There is still obviously considerable upside, but we will wait until we get the momentum going on some of these big lead sources before we can predict that with any more certainty.

Speaker #3: We still expect the mortgage element, as we talked about earlier, to further cut down the budget for next year with extreme caution. So, around £2 million to £2.5 million for Fluent, in addition to what they've done this year.

Peter Brodnicki: We still expect the mortgage element, as we talked earlier, even further cut down our budget for next year with extreme caution, sort of around GBP 2 million to GBP 2.5 million for Fluent in addition to what they have done this year. There is still obviously considerable upside, but we will wait until we get the momentum going on some of these big lead sources before we can predict that with any more certainty.

Speaker #3: But there's still, obviously, considerable upside. We'll wait until we get momentum going on some of these big lead sources before we can predict that with any more certainty.

Speaker #2: Okay, next question on admin costs—maybe one for Joe. The results are not too bad, considering market headwinds, but growth in overheads has been high.

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay. Next question on admin costs, and maybe one for Jo, saying, "The results are not too bad considering market headwinds, but growth in overheads has been high. Historically, MAB has reduced overheads as a percentage of revenue. Why the recent increase and what's the outlook?

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay. Next question on admin costs, and maybe one for Jo, saying, "The results are not too bad considering market headwinds, but growth in overheads has been high. Historically, MAB has reduced overheads as a percentage of revenue. Why the recent increase and what's the outlook?

Speaker #2: Historically, MAB has reduced overheads as a percentage of revenue. Why has there been a recent increase, and what's the outlook?

Speaker #4: Yeah, sure. So the increase, half and half, about $4 million of that is driven by the incorporation of our recently invested business acquisitions. But we also get benefit coming through to gross margin from those.

Jo Stent: Yeah. Sure. The increase, H1 on H1, about GBP 4 million of that is driven by the incorporation of our recent invested business acquisitions. But we also get benefit coming through to gross margin from those. The net upside in the half of a million, of the remainder of the uplift, I mean, that has gone towards planned investment in technology and people, as we are now a bigger business with 10 new businesses incorporated in the last year, as well as preparing to scale for growth.

Speaker #4: So the net-net upside in the half is a million. Of the, and the half of the remainder of the uplift, I mean, that has gone towards planned investment in technology and people, as we're now a bigger business with 10 new businesses incorporated in the last year, as well as preparing to scale for growth.

Speaker #2: Okay, we've got a question about the budget. Do you have any expectations for policy changes in next month's budget if the Help to Buy scheme was to come back, similar to previous versions?

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay, we have got a question about the budget. Do you have any expectations for policy changes in next month's budget? If the Help to Buy scheme was to come back similar to previous versions, how impactful could that be for the business?

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay, we have got a question about the budget. Do you have any expectations for policy changes in next month's budget? If the Help to Buy scheme was to come back similar to previous versions, how impactful could that be for the business?

Speaker #2: How impactful could that be for the business?

Speaker #3: Sorry, do you want to?

Peter Brodnicki: Go ahead.

Speaker #4: Yeah, I mean, I can take it. I mean, in terms of the budget and any initiatives that we might see out of that, I mean, given the length of time, if it were to impact the purchase market, for example, and given sort of the time for those to complete, we would probably see most of the benefit of that coming into 2027 rather than into 2026.

Jo Stent: Yeah, I can take it. In terms of the budget and any initiatives that we might see out of that, given the length of time, if it were to impact the purchase market, for example, and given the time for those to complete, we would probably be seeing most of the benefit of that coming into 2027, rather than into 2026. But we have the current year forecast outturn has remained conservative, and we haven't made any guesses as to where the budget might take us.

Speaker #4: But we have sort of kept the current year forecast outturn conservative, and we haven't made any guesses as to where the budget might take us.

Speaker #2: Okay, question on productivity. Your Capital Markets Day materials discussed technology improvements in advisor productivity. We saw a step up last year—in 2025—but productivity has been more flat in the first half.

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay, question on productivity. Your Capital Markets Day materials talked to technology improvements in adviser productivity. We saw a step-up last year in 2025, but productivity has been more flat in the H1. Is there a trade-off with adviser numbers?

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay, question on productivity. Your Capital Markets Day materials talked to technology improvements in adviser productivity. We saw a step-up last year in 2025, but productivity has been more flat in the H1. Is there a trade-off with adviser numbers?

Speaker #2: Is there a trade-off with advisor numbers?

Speaker #3: Yeah. I think the reason for the there's an underlying improvement in productivity this year because if you think about the fall in purchased increase in refinance and the massive step up in terms of product transfers and that being a by far lowest margin product, actually, if you look at what the brokers have done in any form of more normal circumstances, they've actually done more.

Peter Brodnicki: Well, there's an underlying improvement in productivity this year because if you think about the fall in purchase, the increase in refinance, and the massive step-up in terms of product transfers and that being by far our lowest margin product. Actually, if you look at what the brokers have done in any form of more normal circumstances, they've actually done more. Obviously, we've seen more mortgages done per broker, but the value hasn't been the same. We're still very happy with the progress that we're making. There's a whole round of new technology going into our distribution and starting to get deployed from Q1 next year, which again, will increase productivity further. There's a lot of companies really focusing on that now rather than taking on more brokers.

Speaker #3: We've done, obviously, we've seen more mortgages done per broker, but the value hasn't been the same. So we're still very happy with the progress that we're making.

Peter Brodnicki: Obviously, we've seen more mortgages done per broker, but the value hasn't been the same. We're still very happy with the progress that we're making. There's a whole round of new technology going into our distribution and starting to get deployed from Q1 next year, which again, will increase productivity further. There's a lot of companies really focusing on that now rather than taking on more brokers.

Speaker #3: There's a whole round of new technology going into our distribution, and it's starting to be deployed from Q1 next year. This, again, will increase productivity further.

Speaker #3: There's a lot of companies really focusing on that now, rather than taking on more brokers. So we'll see. I can see organic growth in advisor numbers slowing, and far more focus on productivity, especially as more and more tools are deployed to support that.

Peter Brodnicki: I can see organic growth in adviser numbers slowing and far more focus on productivity, especially as more and more tools are deployed to support that. As they grow, they'll also be taking on a lot less administrative support behind that, because obviously there's going to be a lot of automation in that process, too.

Speaker #3: And as they grow, they will also be taking on a lot less administrative support behind that because, obviously, there's going to be a lot of automation in that process, too.

Jo Stent: But it is important to note that any upside, any uplift in productivity per adviser, so sort of half on half, has been sort of offset by the sort of shift in product mix towards refinancing.

Speaker #4: It's important to note that any upsides, any uplift in productivity per advisor. So sort of half on half has been sort of offset by the sort of shift in product next towards refinancing.

Peter Brodnicki: That is right.

Speaker #4: Yeah.

Jo Stent: Yeah.

Speaker #3: And it has an impact on us. It has an impact on us where we own the productivity, where we own the advisors at around 700 or so that we do. It doesn't impact on us directly if it's an appointed representative.

Peter Brodnicki: It also has an impact on us, the productivity where we own the advisers, so the 700 or so that we do, it does not impact on us directly if it is an appointed representative. But it is good for them, which is therefore good for us.

Speaker #3: But it's good for them, which is, therefore, good for us.

Speaker #2: Okay, back to capital allocation. The question is: thanks for the forward capital funding detail. Can you update on the board's view on share buybacks as a use of capital, given where the shares are trading?

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay, back to capital allocation. Question saying, "Thanks for the forward capital funding detail. Can you update on the board's view on share buybacks as a use of capital, given where the shares are trading?

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay, back to capital allocation. Question saying, "Thanks for the forward capital funding detail. Can you update on the board's view on share buybacks as a use of capital, given where the shares are trading?

Speaker #4: Sure. So I think, in terms of our capital allocation policy, it remains unchanged. But we do recognize that there's a strong business case for a share buyback program being introduced, based on where the share price is at currently.

Jo Stent: Sure. So I think in terms of our capital allocation policy, it remains unchanged. But we do recognize that there is a strong business case for share buyback or a share buyback program being introduced based on where the share price is at currently. In terms of future plans, we laid out our existing commitments and near-term commitments, as well as the capital we have allocated so far in year to M&A. I think it is fair to say that any M&A that we do in the near term will be bolt-on in nature as opposed to significant, and we are very much in execution and integration mode in that regard. Therefore, a share buyback program with the additional flexibility that would be provided to us with the revised, enlarged RCF facility.

Speaker #4: In terms of future plans, we laid out our existing commitments in the near-term commitments, as well as the capital we've allocated so far in the year to M&A.

Speaker #4: I think it's fair to say that any M&A that we do in the near term will be bolt-on in nature, as opposed to significant, and we're very much in execution and integration mode.

Jo Stent: I think it is fair to say that any M&A that we do in the near term will be bolt-on in nature as opposed to significant, and we are very much in execution and integration mode in that regard. Therefore, a share buyback program with the additional flexibility that would be provided to us with the revised, enlarged RCF facility. It is something that we are absolutely considering the range moving forward, but it is all about doing the right thing for the business in the long term, as always.

Speaker #4: In that regard, and so therefore, our share buyback program, with the additional flexibility that would be provided to us with the sort of revised, enlarged RCF facility, is something that we absolutely will consider in the round moving forward.

Jo Stent: It is something that we are absolutely considering the range moving forward, but it is all about doing the right thing for the business in the long term, as always.

Speaker #4: But it's all about doing the right thing for the business in the long term, as always.

Speaker #3: I think it's about having a clear policy and making it a built-in feature of what we're going to do. And I think we've probably released some guidelines about what the policy would be.

Peter Brodnicki: I think it is having a clear policy about it and making it a built-in feature of what we are going to do, and I think we will probably release some guidelines on what the policy on that would be.

Jo Stent: Yeah.

Speaker #3: And yeah, I think it's got to be a regular feature, based on set criteria. And that's what we want to head toward.

Peter Brodnicki: But yeah, I think it has got to be a regular feature based on set criteria. That is what we want to head to.

Speaker #2: Okay. Switching to protection—please, can you comment on the impact, if any, on the FCA market study into pure protection?

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay, switching to protection. Please, can you comment on the impact, if any, on the Financial Conduct Authority market study into pure protection?

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay, switching to protection. Please, can you comment on the impact, if any, on the Financial Conduct Authority market study into pure protection?

Speaker #3: Sure. When they announced their initial findings at the beginning of the year, to say there's sort of effectively nothing to see here—the sector seems to be working well.

Peter Brodnicki: Well, they announced their initial findings at the beginning of the year to say there's effectively nothing to see here. The sector seems to be working well. We were waiting for their final findings, which came out in the last week, and they pretty much confirmed exactly what was there originally. There's been no change. They've given the industry a clean bill of health and a big endorsement in terms of the big protection gap that exists out there right now. There's a couple of key areas. They said you need to look at this and look at that, but that was just recommendations rather than any draconian actions or anything like that. Those areas don't really affect the areas we operate in. Again, we know such a huge opportunity. We're so good at it.

Speaker #3: We're waiting for their final findings, which came out in the last week. They pretty much confirmed exactly what was there originally, so there's been no change.

Speaker #3: They've given the industry a clean bill of health and a big endorsement in terms of the significant protection gap that exists out there right now. And there are a couple of key areas they said you need to look at—this and that.

Peter Brodnicki: They've given the industry a clean bill of health and a big endorsement in terms of the big protection gap that exists out there right now. There's a couple of key areas. They said you need to look at this and look at that, but that was just recommendations rather than any draconian actions or anything like that. Those areas don't really affect the areas we operate in. Again, we know such a huge opportunity. We're so good at it.

Speaker #3: But that was just recommendations rather than any draconian actions or anything like that. And those areas don't really affect the areas we operate in.

Speaker #3: So again, we've just got—we know it's such a huge opportunity. We're so good at it. We're trying to shift our, we're trying to now shift in a strategy to ensure that protection is now sold completely independently of the mortgage.

Peter Brodnicki: We're trying to now shift in a strategy to ensure that protection is now sold completely independently of the mortgage. The First Mortgage obviously has protection where appropriate, and then we take that client on a different protection servicing journey to review their requirements on a regular basis, rather than waiting two or five years and then getting poor attachment rates because it's predominantly a mortgage they're looking at that point. I'd see over the next three, four years, freestanding protection sales increasing significantly rather than looking at attachment rates to refinancing, which is where the disappointing numbers are. From my perspective, that's just given us a green light. We've had a big strategic review of all our protection providers, who are really enthused with our strategy. They want to now work with us far more strategically.

Speaker #3: So the first mortgage obviously has protection where appropriate. And then we take that client on a different protection servicing journey, to review their requirements on a regular basis, rather than waiting two or five years and then getting poor attachment rates, because it's predominantly the mortgage they're looking at at that point.

Speaker #3: So I'd see, over the next three or four years, freestanding protection sales increasing significantly, rather than looking at attachment rates to refinancing—which is where the disappointing numbers are. So, from our perspective, that's just given us a green light.

Peter Brodnicki: I'd see over the next three, four years, freestanding protection sales increasing significantly rather than looking at attachment rates to refinancing, which is where the disappointing numbers are. From my perspective, that's just given us a green light. We've had a big strategic review of all our protection providers, who are really enthused with our strategy. They want to now work with us far more strategically.

Speaker #3: We've had a big strategic review of all our protection providers, who are really enthused about our strategy. They want to now work with us far more strategically.

Speaker #3: At that meeting just a few weeks ago with them, they're really excited about what a new model, a new brand, and our objectives in the protection market are.

Peter Brodnicki: Had that meeting just a few weeks ago with them. They're really excited about what our new model, our new brand, and our objectives in the protection market are. We're adding some more providers into our panel and to ensure we can cater for every single area of protection advice that we need, including some areas of specialization. This is like, to me, we're as much a protection company as a mortgage company, and we've got a lot of initiatives going on protection right now.

Speaker #3: We're adding some more providers into our panel to ensure we can cater for every single area of protection advice that we need, including some areas of specialization.

Speaker #3: So this is, like, to me, we're as much a protection company as a mortgage company. And we've got a lot of initiatives going on in protection right now.

Speaker #2: Okay, Joe, this one’s probably for you. Can you talk about the implied second-half bias in the numbers and how much confidence you have in the revised guidance of 38 million GBT?

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay. Jo, this one probably is for you. Can you talk about the implied H2 bias in the numbers and how much confidence you have in the revised guidance of GBP 38 million PBT?

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay. Jo, this one probably is for you. Can you talk about the implied H2 bias in the numbers and how much confidence you have in the revised guidance of GBP 38 million PBT?

Speaker #4: Sure. So just to give you the bridge, if you like, to the 38. So while half on half in the first half, you'll note that we called out a £1 million benefit from M&A.

Jo Stent: Sure. Just to give you the bridge, if you like, to the 38. While H1 on H1, you will note that we called out a GBP 1 million benefit from M&A, therefore implying that H1 on H1, we had decreased on the core. That is a really tough comparison because the H1 of 2025 had the benefit of the Stamp Duty Land Tax incentive, and the impact of that in the purchase market. However, the shift in the H2 of 2025 towards refinancing means that the H2 to H2 comparison is more of a like for like. Then with the GBP 1 million benefit from M&A in the H1, that is forecast to be GBP 2 million in the H2.

Speaker #4: They're for implying that half on half we had decreased on sort of the poor. That's a really tough comparison because the sort of first half of 2025 had the benefit of the stamp duty incentive.

Speaker #4: And sort of the impact of that in the purchase market. So however, the sort of shift in the second half of 2025 towards refinancing means that the H2 to H2 comparison is more of a like-for-like.

Speaker #4: And then, with the £1 million benefit from M&A in the first half, that's forecast to be £2 million in the second half. So you can draw the bridge towards the £38 million from there.

Jo Stent: Then with the GBP 1 million benefit from M&A in the H1, that is forecast to be GBP 2 million in the H2. You can draw the bridge towards the GBP 38 million from there with some fairly conservative assumptions on H2 in terms of productivity per advisor, as well as the forecast outturn on admin expenses. As always, we have a 40/60 weighting on our revenue and with the integration of the invested businesses, the shape of the P&L has changed. So we have a 40/60 weighting on revenue and a flat phasing on admin costs where we did not have that before. I hope that helped.

Jo Stent: You can draw the bridge towards the GBP 38 million from there with some fairly conservative assumptions on H2 in terms of productivity per advisor, as well as the forecast outturn on admin expenses. As always, we have a 40/60 weighting on our revenue and with the integration of the invested businesses, the shape of the P&L has changed. So we have a 40/60 weighting on revenue and a flat phasing on admin costs where we did not have that before. I hope that helped.

Speaker #4: With some fairly conservative assumptions, and H2-on-H2 in terms of productivity per advisor, as well as the sort of forecast outturn on admin expenses.

Speaker #4: And then, as always, we have a 40/60 weighting on our revenue. With the integration of the invested businesses, the shape of the P&L has changed.

Speaker #4: So, we have a 40/60 weighting on revenue, and a flat phasing on admin costs where we didn't have that before. So, I hope that helps.

Speaker #2: Okay, the next question is: How do you expect to monetize direct-to-lender funneling compared with procurement fees connected to advice?

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay. The next question is, how do you expect to monetize direct-to-lender funneling compared with procuration fees connected to advice?

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay. The next question is, how do you expect to monetize direct-to-lender funneling compared with procuration fees connected to advice?

Speaker #3: Yep. Again, these are the conversations we're having with lenders now. No intermediary does that right now, but it makes sense that the funnel for the consumer all comes through an intermediary.

Peter Brodnicki: Yep. Again, these are the conversations we are having with lenders now. No intermediary does that right now, but it makes sense that the funnel for the consumer all comes through an intermediary, rather than what the industry shouldn't be doing is saying, our lenders say we have more direct business and the broker says the client should come to us. That debate is pointless because really what we should all be doing as an industry is focusing on the customer outcome and there is not a single lender that will tell you the best customer outcome is to only go to one lender because that is obviously clearly nonsense. So although some lenders or bigger lenders will be able to drive more directly, they can also do so with our input and our lead flow. What they want is high quality leads.

Speaker #3: Rather than what the industry shouldn't be doing is sort of saying, "Oh, the lenders say we have more direct business, and the brokers say clients should come to us." That debate is pointless, because really what we should all be doing as an industry is focusing on the customer outcome.

Peter Brodnicki: That debate is pointless because really what we should all be doing as an industry is focusing on the customer outcome and there is not a single lender that will tell you the best customer outcome is to only go to one lender because that is obviously clearly nonsense. So although some lenders or bigger lenders will be able to drive more directly, they can also do so with our input and our lead flow. What they want is high quality leads.

Speaker #3: And there's not a single lender that will tell you the best customer outcome is to only go to one lender, because that's obviously, clearly, nonsense.

Speaker #3: So although some lenders—particularly bigger lenders—will be able to drive more directly, they can also do so with our input and our lead flow.

Speaker #3: What they want is high-quality leads. If you actually look at where lenders get direct business now, through, I don't know, price comparison websites and other areas, what they pay away varies dramatically depending on the quality of the lead that they get.

Peter Brodnicki: If you actually look at where lenders get direct business now, through either price comparison websites and other areas, what they pay away varies dramatically depending on the quality of the lead that they get. From the perspective of a client coming into our funnel, and we digitally getting the mortgage ready effectively before they meet the broker, we can send them in a very good shape, probably the best shape of anybody to a lender and therefore justify the highest fee that a lender would pay for that type of business. And obviously they do not have the broker costs of doing it, but you still have the protection advisor engaged with the client.

Speaker #3: From the perspective of the client coming into our funnel, we sort of digitally get them mortgage-ready effectively before they meet the broker.

Speaker #3: We can send them in a very, very good shape—probably the best shape of anybody—to a lender, and therefore justify the highest fee that a lender would pay for that type of business.

Speaker #3: And obviously, they don't have the broker costs of doing it, but you still have the protection advisor engaged with the client. And the conversations we're having with lenders now, openly, the big boys are big.

Peter Brodnicki: And obviously they do not have the broker costs of doing it, but you still have the protection advisor engaged with the client. And the conversations we are having with lenders now, openly, the big boys are big because no one is going to go to lenders outside of that on a direct basis for the reasons I explained earlier.

Peter Brodnicki: And the conversations we are having with lenders now, openly, the big boys are big because no one is going to go to lenders outside of that on a direct basis for the reasons I explained earlier. So depending on the lender you talk to, you will look at different fees, but certainly the fees vary from what you get from a product transfer right up to a full fee depending on how the quality of delivery that we can get that customer in before we pass it across. So to me it actually widens our audience because we know we lose some customers currently that are more simplistic and especially on the product transfer piece where they do not do that through us or they might do it direct with lender. In a way this can open up this whole opportunity far more for us.

Speaker #3: Because no one's going to go to lenders outside of that on a direct basis, for the reasons I explained earlier. So, depending on which lender you talk to, you'll see different fees.

Peter Brodnicki: So depending on the lender you talk to, you will look at different fees, but certainly the fees vary from what you get from a product transfer right up to a full fee depending on how the quality of delivery that we can get that customer in before we pass it across. So to me it actually widens our audience because we know we lose some customers currently that are more simplistic and especially on the product transfer piece where they do not do that through us or they might do it direct with lender.

Speaker #3: But certainly, the fees vary—from what you get from a product transfer, right up to a full fee—depending on the quality of the delivery that we can get that customer in before we pass it across.

Speaker #3: So to me, it actually widens our audience because we know we lose some customers currently, but our more simplistic—especially on the product transfer piece, where they don't do that through us—

Speaker #3: So they might do it direct with the lender. In a way, this can open up this whole opportunity far more for us. So look, I can't give you some proper numbers at the moment because this is all very early stage for our industry.

Peter Brodnicki: In a way this can open up this whole opportunity far more for us. I cannot give you some proper numbers at the moment because this is all very early stage for our industry. The regulator only removed the advice trigger last year to make something like this even possible. You have to re-look at your compliance standards and processes to make sure there is no consumer detriment.

Peter Brodnicki: I cannot give you some proper numbers at the moment because this is all very early stage for our industry. The regulator only removed the advice trigger last year to make something like this even possible. You have to re-look at your compliance standards and processes to make sure there is no consumer detriment. Regulation does not really allow non-advised business recommendations in so we have to make sure we are within those bounds and there is no confusion between advice and no advice. But to me, that is a natural progression at some point. So I hope that should be reassuring.

Speaker #3: The regulator only sort of removed the advice trigger last year to make something like this even possible. You have to re-look at your compliance standards and processes to make sure there's no consumer detriment.

Speaker #3: Regulation doesn't really allow non-advised business recommendations in, so we have to make sure we're within those bounds, and there's no confusion between advice and no advice.

Peter Brodnicki: Regulation does not really allow non-advised business recommendations in so we have to make sure we are within those bounds and there is no confusion between advice and no advice. But to me, that is a natural progression at some point. So I hope that should be reassuring.

Speaker #3: But to me, that's a natural progression at some point. So hopefully, that should be reassuring.

Speaker #2: Okay, there's a question asking about the move to the Main Market providing benefits. I think I could probably start on that, just to say it's very early days since we moved to the Main Market.

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay. There is a question asking about the move to the main market providing benefits. I think I could probably start on that just to say it is very early days since we moved to main market and we will judge this on years, not on quarters. It has helped us engage with some of our investors in North America and Canada, who have found it harder to access companies on AIM. We have seen some improvement, not material, but some improvement in liquidity in average daily volumes. This was it felt like a natural step up given the size of the group and the ambitions of the group. The aspiration was to become a FTSE 250 company, not to be in the bottom half of the small-cap index. That remains the plan. It is probably just take us a bit longer to get there.

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay. There is a question asking about the move to the main market providing benefits. I think I could probably start on that just to say it is very early days since we moved to main market and we will judge this on years, not on quarters. It has helped us engage with some of our investors in North America and Canada, who have found it harder to access companies on AIM.

Speaker #2: And we'll judge this on years, not on quarters. It has helped us engage with some of our investors in North America and Canada, who have found it harder to access companies on AIM.

Speaker #2: We've seen some improvement—not material, but some improvement—in liquidity and average daily volumes. But really, this felt like a natural step up, given the size of the group and the ambitions of the group.

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: We have seen some improvement, not material, but some improvement in liquidity in average daily volumes. This was it felt like a natural step up given the size of the group and the ambitions of the group. The aspiration was to become a FTSE 250 company, not to be in the bottom half of the small-cap index. That remains the plan. It is probably just take us a bit longer to get there. Peter, is there anything you want to add?

Speaker #2: The aspiration was to become a FTSE 250 company, not to be in the bottom half of the small cap index. That remains the plan.

Speaker #2: It’ll probably just take us a bit longer to get there. Peter, is there anything you'd like to add?

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Peter, is there anything you want to add?

Speaker #3: No, that's exactly it. We felt that we had real momentum this year, and that if the market didn't work against us, then that momentum would get us onto 250 relatively quickly.

Peter Brodnicki: No, that is exactly it. We felt we had real momentum this year, and that if the market did not work against us, then that momentum would get us onto 250 relatively quickly. Our first estimations a year ago, we will be there by the end of this year, which clearly is not going to happen. In fact, the market has worked against us. That has hit our numbers and some of the initiatives obviously that we were working on. The whole market is down on the investment side. We are just not going to get there yet. It was a steppingstone strategy. That is disappointing. That is just again, a timing issue when we did it. I am glad we did it, and I am glad we are off AIM. This is more in our control now, hopefully, than it was on AIM really for us.

Speaker #3: Our first estimations a year ago were that we would be there by the end of this year, which is not going to happen. But in fact, the markets worked against us.

Speaker #3: That's hit our numbers, and some of the initiatives, obviously, that we were working on. And the whole market is down. So, on the investment side...

Peter Brodnicki: That has hit our numbers and some of the initiatives obviously that we were working on. The whole market is down on the investment side. We are just not going to get there yet. It was a steppingstone strategy. That is disappointing. That is just again, a timing issue when we did it. I am glad we did it, and I am glad we are off AIM. This is more in our control now, hopefully, than it was on AIM really for us.

Speaker #3: So we're just not going to—we're not going to get there yet. But it was a stepping-stone strategy, so that's disappointing. And that's just, again, a timing issue of when we did it.

Speaker #3: But I'm glad we did it, and I'm glad we're off AIM. So this is more in our control now, hopefully, than it was on AIM, really, for us.

Speaker #2: Okay, I've got time for one last question, which is going to be the favorite topic of AI. Please, could you discuss some of the obstacles to AI-powered new entrants?

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay, got time for one last question, which is going to be the favorite topic of AI. Peter, could you discuss some of the obstacles to AI-powered new entrants? What stops new entrants from developing agents to compete with you?

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay, got time for one last question, which is going to be the favorite topic of AI. Peter, could you discuss some of the obstacles to AI-powered new entrants? What stops new entrants from developing agents to compete with you?

Speaker #2: What stops new entrants from developing agents to compete with you?

Speaker #3: Okay, right. Can I just firstly say that I think there's a view out there that the people who are going to use AI best are the new people on the block.

Peter Brodnicki: Okay. Right. Can I just firstly say that, I think there is a view out there that the people that are going to use AI best are new people on the block, which is complete and utter nonsense, obviously. Us and others, and there is other big brands out there, not just in the mortgage market, other sectors you are familiar with, that are bringing in fantastic people and they have far bigger resources, and they have got far bigger brands, and they have got far wider customer reach, and they are the incumbents that are in a far better position than a new AI-based or technology-led business could possibly do. You still need access to consumers. There is still cost of acquisition. The cost of AI will obviously go up significantly.

Speaker #3: Which is complete and utter nonsense, obviously. Us and others—and there are other big brands out there—not just in the mortgage market, but in other sectors you're familiar with.

Speaker #3: They are bringing in fantastic people, and they have far bigger resources. They have far bigger brands, and they've got far wider customer reach. They're the incumbents, and they're in a far better position than a new AI-based or Tommy-led business could possibly be.

Speaker #3: You still need access to consumers. There's still a cost of acquisition. The cost of AI will obviously go up significantly. If you build your business purely around AI, you're in for a shock in the next few years.

Peter Brodnicki: You still need access to consumers. There is still cost of acquisition. The cost of AI will obviously go up significantly. If you build your business purely around AI, you are in for a shock in the next few years because the cost of that is going to be tremendously higher. As we embrace AI, we also look at how we can effectively protect ourselves from those hikes, because once you are in and fully hooked, it is going to be hard to extract yourself.

Peter Brodnicki: If you build your business purely around AI, you are in for a shock in the next few years because the cost of that is going to be tremendously higher. As we embrace AI, we also look at how we can effectively protect ourselves from those hikes, because once you are in and fully hooked, it is going to be hard to extract yourself. So we need to make sure we are fully planning for that as well, and that we have the security elements all there in place. It is not just about growth. The other thing you have also got to remember is client ownership. If you want to be a funnel straight into a lender, that is it. That is your customer gone. You are not going to be able to monetize that function. So you have got to look at where the financial benefit of that is going to come back.

Speaker #3: Because the cost of that's going to be tremendously higher. And so, as we embrace AI, we also look at how we can effectively protect ourselves from those hikes.

Speaker #3: Because once you're in and fully hooked, it's going to be hard to extract yourself. So, we need to make sure we're fully planning for that as well.

Peter Brodnicki: So we need to make sure we are fully planning for that as well, and that we have the security elements all there in place. It is not just about growth. The other thing you have also got to remember is client ownership. If you want to be a funnel straight into a lender, that is it. That is your customer gone. You are not going to be able to monetize that function. So you have got to look at where the financial benefit of that is going to come back.

Speaker #3: And that we have the security elements all there in place. It's not just about growth, and everything—you've also got to remember is client ownership.

Speaker #3: If you want to be a funnel straight into a lender, that's it. That's your customer gone. You're not going to be able to monetize that action.

Speaker #3: So you've got to look at where the financial benefit of that's going to come back. I'm going to say there will be lots of new opportunities there.

Peter Brodnicki: I dare say there will be lots of new opportunities there. But what actually it is doing, I think it is opening up our market, as we have been saying, with big groups, Property Port as well as others, that already got huge customer reach, where the data they have got working with our data and allowing us to build really bespoke customer journeys. That is where the real power sits. I do not think it is from someone coming in externally, because they are going to have to go direct to consumer, to get that, whereas we are working with major brands consumers are already engaged with. And we have insights of where they are and how we to them, and those are our customers that we have then value on.

Speaker #3: But what it's actually doing, I think, is opening up our market, as you've been saying, with big groups of property portals and various others. All of them have huge customer reach, so the data they've got, working with our data, allows us to build really bespoke customer journeys.

Speaker #3: That's where the real power sits. I don't think it's in someone coming in externally, because they're going to have to go direct to consumer.

Speaker #3: To get that. Whereas we're working with major brands consumers are already engaged with, and we have insights into where they are, how many, and our customers that we have, then value on.

Peter Brodnicki: And we have insights of where they are and how we to them, and those are our customers that we have then value on. To me, I am sure there will be those models, but I do not actually see how they could become viable or become a major threat as long as we have the right strategy, the right people to implement that strategy.

Speaker #3: And so, to me, I'm sure there will be those models, but I don't actually see how they could become viable or become a major threat.

Peter Brodnicki: To me, I am sure there will be those models, but I do not actually see how they could become viable or become a major threat as long as we have the right strategy, the right people to implement that strategy. Then I think we are fine. I think other intermediaries could be in problems. I am not saying the whole sector is protected. But we can protect big chunks of the sector under that. You need different skill sets than just being a good broker. But good broker is going to help you here. You need a far wider strategy to have the chance to still be a good broker, if I want to put it that way.

Speaker #3: As long as we have the right strategy and the right people to implement that strategy, then I think we're fine. I think I've been to meetings that could be problematic.

Peter Brodnicki: Then I think we are fine. I think other intermediaries could be in problems. I am not saying the whole sector is protected. But we can protect big chunks of the sector under that. You need different skill sets than just being a good broker. But good broker is going to help you here. You need a far wider strategy to have the chance to still be a good broker, if I want to put it that way.

Speaker #3: I'm not saying the whole sector is protected, but we can protect big chunks of the sector under math. You need different skill sets than just being a good broker.

Speaker #3: But a good broker isn't going to help you here. You need a far wider strategy to have the chance to still be a good broker.

Speaker #3: If I want to put it that way.

Speaker #2: Okay, we're up on time. If anyone has further questions, feel free to reach out. Come through the Investor Relations email, and we'll try and get back to you.

[Company Representative] (Mortgage Advice Bureau): Okay. We are up on time. If anyone has further questions, feel free to reach out. Come through the investor relations email and we will try and come back to you. Otherwise, any final comments, Peter?

Mark Irvine-Fortescue: Okay. We are up on time. If anyone has further questions, feel free to reach out. Come through the investor relations email and we will try and come back to you. Otherwise, any final comments, Peter?

Speaker #2: Otherwise, any final comment, Peter?

Speaker #3: No. Again, I just want to voice my other than just voice my disappointment. And I hate letting people down. I'll take that very personally.

Peter Brodnicki: No. Again, other than just voice my disappointment and I hate letting people down. I take that very personally. I did not think we would be in this position. I am the ripe old age of 64. I am learning a lot every day. We will learn from this experience and we will get back on track very quickly. I think it is an exciting time for the business compared to the last 25 years put together. Where there is risk, there is huge opportunity. We make the right decisions, then we will be a beneficiary of that, and I hope you will continue to back us.

Speaker #3: I didn't think we'd be in this position. I'm a ripe old age of 64. I'm learning a lot every day, and we'll learn from this experience.

Speaker #3: And we'll get back on track very quickly. I think it's an exciting time for the business, compared to the last 25 years put together.

Speaker #3: And where there's risk, there's huge opportunity. And if we make the right decisions, we'll be a beneficiary of that. I hope you'll continue to back us.

Speaker #1: Perfect. Thank you to the team for updating those investors today. Please ask investors not to close this session, as you will now be automatically redirected for your feedback.

Operator: Perfect. Thank you to the team for updating those investors today. Could I please ask investors not to close this session as you will now be automatically redirected for your feedback. On behalf of the management team of Mortgage Advice Bureau PLC, we would like to thank you for attending today's presentation and good after-

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Q2 2026 Mortgage Advice Bureau PLC Earnings Call

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