Q1 2026 Grindr Inc Earnings Call

May 7, 2026

Speaker #1: To 2026 earnings call. All lines have been placed on mute to prevent any background noise. After the speakers' remarks, there will be a question-and-answer session.

Speaker #1: If you would like to ask a question during this time and have joined via the webinar, please use the raised hand icon, which can be found at the bottom of your webinar application.

Speaker #1: At this time, I would like to turn the call over to Tolu, Adeofe, Director of Investor Relations. Thank you.

Speaker #2: Hello and welcome to the Grindr earnings call for the first quarter 2026. Today's call will be led by Grindr CEO, George Arison, and CFO, John North.

Speaker #2: They will make a few brief remarks and then we'll open it up for questions. Please note Grindr released its shareholder letter this afternoon, and this is available on the SEC's website and Grindr's investor page at investors.grindr.com.

Speaker #2: Before we begin, I will remind everyone that during this call we may discuss our outlook, future performance, and future prospects. You should not rely on forward-looking statements as predictions of future events.

Speaker #2: These forward-looking statements are subject to risk and uncertainties, and are actual results could differ materially from the views expressed today. Some of the risks that could cause our actual results to differ from views expressed in our forward-looking statements have been set forth in our earnings release and our periodic reports filed with the SEC.

Speaker #2: Including our annual report on Form 10-K for the year ended December 31, 2025, or any subsequently filed quarterly reports. During today's call, we will also present both GAAP and non-GAAP financial measures.

Speaker #2: Additional disclosures regarding non-GAAP measures including a reconciliation of these non-GAAP financial measures to their most closely comparable GAAP financial measure are included in the earnings release we issued today.

Speaker #2: Which has been posted on the investor relations page of Grindr's website and in Grindr's filings with the SEC. With that, I'll turn it over to George.

Speaker #3: Thanks, Tolu, and hello everyone. We delivered exceptional results in Q1 2026, revenue grew 38% year over year, with a net income margin of 21%, and adjusted EBITDA margin of 45%.

Speaker #3: We have now shown repeatedly that when we improve the product, expand the value users get from Grindr, and monetize thoughtfully, the business responds. Given our Q1 performance and what we can see today, we are raising our full-year outlook and now expect at least $535 million in revenue and at least $227 million in adjusted EBITDA for 2026.

Speaker #3: I will focus on a few highlights, and as always, I encourage you to read our shareholder letter, which goes into significantly more details on these topics as well as a number of others.

Speaker #3: Our focus in 2026 is clear: making Grindr a more useful valuable across a broader range of user needs and intentions. That means continued work in the core app, including right now, maps, help center, significant re-architecture, and broader deployment of GAI.

Speaker #3: We're also driving towards the global rollout of Edge, our new premium tier. Build around our GAI capabilities, Edge is designed for power users who want the most advanced experience current technology can offer.

Speaker #3: Based on user testing, we expect that Edge will command a significant premium to our current subscription offerings. And anticipate that it should be our largest driver of revenue growth in 2027.

Speaker #3: As our offerings expand, Grindr's position in the market is broadening as well. We're staying true to and strengthening our core use case with right now, while also becoming a broader and more durable category leader serving one of the most culturally influential communities in the world across many use cases.

Speaker #3: That is what the global GAI put in your pocket means. Now moving away from what is a core to Grindr and to GAI life, but building outward from it into a product, brand, and platform that play a larger role in the lives of our users.

Speaker #3: Over time, we aspire to be not just a known brand, but a loved one, with greater cultural relevance, broader utility, and the ability to expand into adjacent categories where our relationship with users gives us a unique, right-to-win.

Speaker #3: Our recent Vandana partnership is a strong example of that strategy in action. It is a major in-app activation ahead of the global release of our new album, "Confessions on the Dashboard 2," and exemplifies the content partnership's component of our product and business.

Speaker #3: It also is reflective of Grindr's position and culture, our users do not just consume culture, they help shape what breaks and what matters. As we introduce more elevated experiences, Grindr is also becoming a more premium platform, one able to attract iconic partners and create new forms of value.

George Arison: The global gay in pocket means now moving away from what is core to Grindr and to gay life, but building outward from it into a product, brand, and platform that play a larger role in the lives of our users. Over time, we aspire to be not just a known brand, but a loved one with greater cultural relevance, broader utility, and the ability to expand into adjacent categories where our relationship with users gives us a unique right to win. Our recent Madonna partnership is a strong example of that strategy in action. It is a major in-app activation ahead of the global release of her new album, Confessions on a Dance Floor II, and exemplifies the content partnerships component of our product and business. It also is reflective of Grindr's position and culture.

Speaker #3: That strengthens the brand and expands our positioning well beyond that of a narrow use case app. We also continue to build our advertising platform as a meaningful driver of a long-term growth.

Speaker #3: A strong free product remains essential to the health of our network. And this year, we are taking steps to improve the free experience meaningfully.

George Arison: Our recent Madonna partnership is a strong example of that strategy in action. It is a major in-app activation ahead of the global release of her new album, Confessions on a Dance Floor II, and exemplifies the content partnerships component of our product and business. It also is reflective of Grindr's position and culture. Our users do not just consume culture, they help shape what breaks and what matters.

Over time, we aspire to be not just a known brand, but a loved one with greater cultural relevance and broader utility, and the ability to expand into adjacent categories, where our relationship with users gives us a unique right to win.

Speaker #3: Including recent certain ad triggers, expanding rewards-based advertising, and re-architecting the front end of our iOS and Android apps. Activations, reactivations, and overall engagement remain strong, and retention is improving, now withstanding pricing changes.

A recent Madonna, partnership is the strong example of that strategy in action.

It is a major in of activation, a head of the global release of her new album, contractions on the Dance Floor, too.

And exemplifies, the content Partnerships component of our product and business.

George Arison: Our users do not just consume culture, they help shape what breaks and what matters. As we introduce more elevated experiences, Grindr is also becoming a more premium platform, one able to attract iconic partners and create new forms of value that strengthens the brand and expands our positioning well beyond that of a narrow use case app. We also continue to build our advertising platform as a meaningful driver of long-term growth. A strong free product remains essential to the health of our network. This year, we are taking steps to improve the free experience meaningful, including raising certain ad triggers, expanding rewards-based advertising, and re-architecting the front end of our iOS and Android apps. Activations, reactivations, and overall engagement remains strong and retention is improving, notwithstanding pricing changes. These strong engagement results are clear indicators that the product quality is getting better.

It also is reflective of Brand's position and culture.

Speaker #3: These strong engagement results are clear indicators that the product quality is getting better. While our mild growth remains strong, in a small number of international markets, we are also seeing mild headwinds from two types of government actions.

George Arison: As we introduce more elevated experiences, Grindr is also becoming a more premium platform, one able to attract iconic partners and create new forms of value that strengthens the brand and expands our positioning well beyond that of a narrow use case app. We also continue to build our advertising platform as a meaningful driver of long-term growth. A strong free product remains essential to the health of our network. This year, we are taking steps to improve the free experience meaningful, including raising certain ad triggers, expanding rewards-based advertising, and re-architecting the front end of our iOS and Android apps.

They do not just consume culture; they helped shape what breaks through and what matters.

Speaker #3: First, certain new-age assurance rules lead some adults including those particularly focused on privacy to drop out of the account sign-up or login flow prior to even entering the age assurance process.

As we introduce more elevated experiences Grinders also becoming a more premium platform. Unable to attract iconic partners and create new forms of value that strengthens the brand and expands our positioning well beyond that of a narrow use case type

We also continue to build our advertising platform as a meaningful driver of long-term growth.

Speaker #3: Separately, and far more troubling for our users, we face real pressure in certain countries with a repressive policies against members of our community, like Malaysia and Indonesia.

A strong free product remains essential to the health of our Network.

Speaker #3: We estimate that in total, Mao would have grown by an average of 400,000 more in 2026 than the current full-year trajectory, if we were not facing these two distinct factors.

George Arison: Activations, reactivations, and overall engagement remains strong and retention is improving, notwithstanding pricing changes. These strong engagement results are clear indicators that the product quality is getting better. While our MAU growth remains strong, in a small number of international markets, we are also seeing MAU headwinds from two types of government actions.

And this year, we are taking steps to improve the 3 experience. Meaningful including reasons that are not triggers. Expanding, rewards, based advertising and rearching the front end of our IOS and Android apps.

Speaker #3: This is not financial material to us, for reasons discussed in my letter. We're continuing to strengthen Grindr for the long term on behalf of shareholders, including nominating three new independent directors for election at our annual meeting, and as John will discuss, beginning execution under our expanded share repurchase program.

George Arison: While our MAU growth remains strong, in a small number of international markets, we are also seeing MAU headwinds from 2 types of government actions. First, certain new age assurance rules lead some adults, including those particularly focused on privacy, to drop out of the account sign-up or login flow prior to even entering the age assurance process. Separately, and far more troubling for our users, we face real pressure in certain countries with repressive policies against members of our community, like Malaysia and Indonesia. We estimate that in total, MAU would have grown by an average of 400,000 more in 2026 than the current full year trajectory if we were not facing these 2 distinct factors. This is not financially material to us for reasons discussed in my letter.

Activations reactivation and overall engagement remains strong and retention is improving now. We standing pricing changes these strong engagement results are clear indicators that the product quality is getting better.

George Arison: First, certain new age assurance rules lead some adults, including those particularly focused on privacy, to drop out of the account sign-up or login flow prior to even entering the age assurance process. Separately, and far more troubling for our users, we face real pressure in certain countries with repressive policies against members of our community, like Malaysia and Indonesia. We estimate that in total, MAU would have grown by an average of 400,000 more in 2026 than the current full year trajectory if we were not facing these two distinct factors.

While our model growth remains strong in a small. Number of international markets. We are also seeing em headwinds from 2 types of government actions,

Speaker #3: Overall, I could not be happier with our fantastic start of 2026. The team is executing exceptionally well across technology, product, brand, and the business more broadly.

First, certain new age assurance rules lead some adults, including those particularly focused on privacy, to drop out of the account sign-up or login flow prior to even entering the age assurance process.

Speaker #3: And I'm very proud of and grateful for their hardcore approach to everything we do. Because of their dedication, we believe Grindr is set up to deliver strong growth this year and next, and we are excited for what lies ahead.

Separately and far more troubling for our users. We Face a real pressure in certain countries with a repressive policies against members of our community, like Malaysia and Indonesia.

Speaker #3: With that, I'll turn it over to John to walk through the results in more detail.

George Arison: This is not financially material to us for reasons discussed in my letter. We're continuing to strengthen Grindr for the long term on behalf of shareholders, including nominating three new independent directors for election at our annual meeting, and as John will discuss, beginning execution under our expanded share repurchase program. Overall, I could not be happier with our fantastic start of 2026. The team is executing exceptionally well across technology, product, brand, and the business more broadly, and I'm very proud of and grateful for their hardcore approach to everything we do. Because of their dedication, we believe Grindr is set up to deliver strong growth this year and next, and we are excited for what lies ahead. With that, I'll turn it over to John to walk through the results in more detail.

Speaker #4: Thanks, George, and hello, everyone. Q1 was strong across the board, as George highlighted. Revenue grew 38% to $130 million, adjusted EBITDA was $58 million, or a margin of 45%.

We estimate that in total MA would have grown by an average of 400,000 more in 2026 and the current full year trajectory. If we were not facing these 2 distinct factors,

This is non-financial material to us for reasons. Discussed in my letter.

George Arison: We're continuing to strengthen Grindr for the long term on behalf of shareholders, including nominating 3 new independent directors for election at our annual meeting, and as John will discuss, beginning execution under our expanded share repurchase program. Overall, I could not be happier with our fantastic start of 2026. The team is executing exceptionally well across technology, product, brand, and the business more broadly, and I'm very proud of and grateful for their hardcore approach to everything we do. Because of their dedication, we believe Grindr is set up to deliver strong growth this year and next, and we are excited for what lies ahead. With that, I'll turn it over to John to walk through the results in more detail.

Speaker #4: The performance was driven by strength in core app revenue, including our pricing changes, but also better conversion and retention, as well as ads, app-based revenue grew 33% year over year, and ad revenue is up 68%.

We're continuing to strengthen grinder for the long term on behalf of shareholders, including nominating 3, new independent directors for election in our annual meeting and as John will discuss beginning execution under our expenditure reports program.

Overall, I could not be happier with our fantastic starter 2026.

Speaker #4: In ads, we have our first big year-long direct ad campaign, which will take our ads revenue up into the mid to high teens as the percentage of total revenue for 2026.

The team is executing exceptionally well across technology, product, brand, and the business more broadly.

And I'm very proud of and grateful for their hard work to everything we do.

Speaker #4: That's netted against moderation and third-party ad loads that we began implementing in the first quarter, in connection with our priorities around user experience and ecosystem health.

Speaker #4: In 2027, we expect ads as a percentage of total revenue to normalize back to the 15% range that we've historically delivered. Adjusted EBITDA grew 44% to $58 million, or a margin of 45%.

John North: Thanks, George. Hello, everyone. Q1 was strong across the board as George highlighted. Revenue grew 38% to $130 million. Adjusted EBITDA was $58 million or a margin of 45%. The performance was driven by strength in core app revenue, including our pricing changes, but also better conversion and retention, as well as ads. App-based revenue grew 33% year over year, and ad revenue is up 68%. In ads, we have our first big year-long direct ad campaign, which will take our ads revenue up into the mid to high teens as a percentage of total revenue for 2026. That's netted against moderation in third-party ad loads that we began implementing in Q1 in connection with our priorities around user experience and ecosystem health.

Because of that education, We Believe grinder is set up to deliver a strong growth this year and next and we are excited for what lies ahead with that. I'll turn it over to John to walk through the results in more detail.

Thanks George. And hello everyone.

Q1 with strong across the board is George highlighted.

Speaker #4: The strong result is an outcome of both the revenue outperformance and the timing of planned expenses. In our March call, we communicated that we planned higher investments this year in support of our priorities for the business.

Revenue grew 38% to 130 million adjusted. Eva doll was 58 million or a margin of 45%.

Speaker #4: While these investments began to flow through the P&L in the first quarter, we expect to see that pick up in the second quarter as we execute on planned product and tech development initiatives, as well as marketing in support of the brand initiatives George highlighted.

The performance was driven by strength in core app revenue, including our pricing changes, but also better conversion and retention, as well as ads. App-based revenue grew 33% year-over-year, and ad revenue is up 68%.

Speaker #4: Turning now to share repurchase activity, this is detailed in our shareholder letter, but I'll call out that we retired $8.3 million shares of our common stock in the first quarter.

In ads, we have our first big year-long direct ad Campaign which will take our ads Revenue up into the mid to high teens. This is a percentage of total revenue for 2026.

Speaker #4: Across December and the first quarter, we've deployed approximately $140 million in authorized repurchases. We've used a variety of mechanisms, including prepaid written put options, an accelerated share repurchase, and forward repurchase transactions, so that the capital deployed will so far will settle over time through the third quarter of this year.

John North: In 2027, we expect ads as a percentage of total revenues normalized back to the 15% range that we've historically delivered. Adjusted EBITDA grew 44% to $58 million or a margin of 45%. The strong result is an outcome of both the revenue outperformance and the timing of planned expenses. In our March call, we communicated that we planned higher investments this year in support of our priorities for the business. While these investments began to flow through the P&L in Q1, we expect to see that pick up in Q2 as we execute on planned product and tech development initiatives, as well as marketing in support of the brand initiatives George highlighted. Turning now to share repurchase activity.

That's netted against moderation in third-party ad loads that we began implementing in the first quarter in connection with our priorities around user experience and ecosystem health.

In 2027, we expect ads as a percentage of total revenues normalized back to the 15% range that we've historically delivered.

Speaker #4: We have $350 million remaining in our current buyback authorization. Now for our guidance. We are raising our 2026 outlook to include revenue of at least $535 million and adjusted EBITDA of $227 million, a $10 million increase from our February outlook.

Adjusted, Eva grew, 44% to 58 million, where our margin of 45%. The strong result is an outcome of both the revenue outperformance and the timing of plan expenses.

Speaker #4: The increase in estimated revenue reflects stronger payer conversion, which is continuing into the second quarter, and the lift from the brand campaign. Keep in mind that we expect our growth rates will moderate in the second half of this year, in particular in the fourth quarter, as we anniversary the rollout of our pricing increases.

In our March call, we communicated that we plan higher Investments this year, in support of our priorities for the business. All these Investments began to flow through the p&l in the first quarter. We expect to see that pick up in the second quarter as we execute on plan product and Tech development initiatives as well as marketing and support of the brand initiatives. George highlighted

John North: This is detailed in our shareholder letter, but I'll call out that we retired 8.3 million shares of our common stock in Q1. Across December and Q1, we've deployed approximately $140 million in authorized repurchases. We've used a variety of mechanisms, including prepaid written put options and accelerated share repurchase and forward repurchase transactions so that the capital deployed will settle over time through Q3 of this year. We have $350 million remaining in our current buyback authorization. Now, for our guidance. We are raising our 2026 outlook to include revenue of at least $535 million and adjusted EBITDA of $227 million, a $10 million increase from our February outlook.

turning out a cherry purchase activity. This is detailed in our shareholder letter but I'll call out that we retired 8.3 million shares or a common stock in the first quarter.

Speaker #4: A higher adjusted EBITDA outlook reflects a stronger revenue picture and continued strong AI leverage and engineering, offset somewhat by the planned investments we discussed, which are starting to increase in the second quarter.

Speaker #4: Overall, we are excited about the strength of the business and will manage with discipline as we execute on our plans for the year as we always do.

First quarter, we've deployed approximately $140 million in authorized repurchases. We've used a variety of mechanisms, including prepaid written put options and accelerated share repurchase transactions, so that the capital deployed so far will settle over time through the third quarter of this year.

Speaker #4: And with that, operator, let's open up the call for questions.

We have 350 million remaining in our current buyback. Authorization.

Speaker #1: We will now move to our question and answer session. If you have joined via the webinar, please use the raise hand icon, which can be found at the bottom of your webinar application.

John North: The increase in estimated revenue reflects stronger payer conversion, which is continuing into the Q2 and the lift from the brand campaign. Keep in mind that we expect our growth rates will moderate in the H2 of this year, in particular in the Q4 as we anniversary the rollout of our pricing increases. A higher adjusted EBITDA outlook reflects the stronger revenue picture and continued strong AI leverage in engineering, offset somewhat by the planned investments we discussed, which are starting to increase in the Q2. Overall, we are excited about the strength of the business, and we'll manage with discipline as we execute on our plans for the year as we always do. With that, operator, let's open up the call for questions.

Now, for our guidance, we are raising our 2026 Outlook to include Revenue at least 3 535 million and adjusted. EBA 227 million. A 10 million dollar increase from our February Outlook.

Speaker #1: When you are called on, please unmute your line and ask your question. Our first question today comes from Nathan Feather at Morgan Stanley. Nathan, you may now unmute your line and ask your question.

The increase in estimated Revenue, reflects stronger, repair conversion, which is continuing into the second quarter and the lift from the brand campaign.

Speaker #1: Thank you.

Speaker #3: Hey, everyone. Thanks so much for taking the question and congrats on the strong quarter here. Can you write a little bit about color on what you're seeing in the testing so far for Edge, both in terms of consumer receptivity to the individual features, along with the price receptivity?

Speaker #3: And then noted it's going to be the major driver for 2027, I guess. How should we think about the rollout timing here? Thank you.

Keep in mind that we expect our growth rates for moderate in the second half of this year. In particular, in the fourth quarter, as we anniversary, the rollout of our pricing increases. I hire adjusted, ebita Outlook reflects the stronger Revenue, picture and continued strong, AI leverage and Engineering offset somewhat by the plan Investments. We discussed which are starting to increase in the second quarter.

Speaker #5: Hi, Nathan. Good to talk to you. Great question. We have a lot of data on Edge from the testing that we've done. So I'll split that into two things.

Overall, we are excited about the strength of the business and we'll manage with discipline as we execute our plans for the year as we always do.

And with that operator, let's open up the call for questions.

Operator: We will now move to our question-and-answer session. If you have joined via the webinar, please use the raise hand icon, which can be found at the bottom of your webinar application. When you are called on, please unmute your line and ask your question. Our first question today comes from Nathan Feather at Morgan Stanley. Nathan, you may now unmute your line and ask your question. Thank you.

Speaker #5: On the product side, a bunch of the features that are all in Edge have actually been tested for quite some time in 2025. And so we feel really confident about the product experience that we've created and about the features that we've built, and that users really will like them, and it'll be a really great thing for the product overall.

We will now move to our question and answer session. If you have joined via the webinar, please use the raise hand icon which can be found at the bottom of your webinar application.

When you are called on, please unmute your line, and ask your question.

Nathan Feather: Hey, everyone. Thanks for taking the question, and congrats on the strong quarter here. Can you provide a little bit more color on what you're seeing in the testing so far for EDGE, both in terms of consumer receptivity to the individual features along with the price receptivity? You know what is gonna be the major driver for 2027, I guess? How should we think about the rollout timing here? Thank you.

Our first question today comes from Nathan feather, at Morgan Stanley, Nathan. You may now unmute your line and ask your question. Thank you.

Speaker #5: Where we are really focused on now is pricing. So we've done one pretty big price test in an English-speaking country, not in the United States, and got really good results, which tell us that Edge will be priced at a significant premium to what we offer today.

Speaker #5: Incrementally more. And that gives us a lot of confidence that Edge is a very good home run. And what we're now spending time on is determining whether Edge can be a grand slam.

George Arison: Hi, Nathan. Good to talk to you. Great question. We have a lot of data on EDGE from the testing that we've done, so I'll split that into two things. On the product side, a bunch of the features that are all in EDGE have actually been tested for quite some time in 2025. We feel really confident about the product experience that we've created and about the features that we've built, and that users really will like them, and it'll be a really great thing for the product overall. Where we are really focused on now is pricing.

Hey everyone. Thanks for taking the question and congrats on the strong quarter here. Um, can you write a little bit about color on on what you're seeing in the testing so far for Edge both in terms of consumer, receptivity to the individual features along with the price receptivity? And then, you know what, it's going to be the major driver for 2027, I guess, how should we think about the rollout timing here? Thank you.

Speaker #5: With a higher price point, but the key to that is having better clarity around how we want to position it in the product and kind of the marketing that we want to do around it.

Hi Nathan, good to talk to you. Uh great question. We have a lot of data on edge from the testing that we've done so I'll support that in the 2 things on the

um, product side, a bunch of the

Speaker #5: Edge is not designed as a product for mass consumption. It is built for a small number of power users on Grindr. I think someone's asked me in the past, and I said, anywhere between half a percent to a percentage point of our MAO being in Edge after several years, I would view as a really powerful outcome.

George Arison: We've done one pretty big price test in an English-speaking country, not in the United States, and got really good results, which tell us that EDGE will be priced at a significant premium to what we offer today, you know, incrementally more. And that gives us a lot of confidence that EDGE is a very good home run. What we're now spending time on is determining whether EDGE can be a grand slam with a higher price point. The key to that is having better clarity around how we wanna position it in the product and kind of the marketing that we wanna do around it. EDGE is not designed as a product for mass consumption. It is built for a small number of power users on Grindr.

Speaker #5: And so we're now looking at that kind of marketing piece of it and how to position it into the market. And how to then price it based on the value that users are getting the value equation is really the critical thing for us.

Features that are all in Edge. Have actually been tested for quite some time in 2025. And so we feel really confident about the product experience. So we've created and about the features that we've built and that users really will like them. And it'll be a really great thing, um, for the product overall, um, where we are really focused on now is pricing. So we've done 1, pretty big price, test in, um, an English-speaking country, not in the United States, uh, and got really good results, which tell us that edge will be.

Speaker #5: So we feel really good about where Edge is headed. We are going to put another test out into the market later this spring. Or perhaps in June.

Speaker #5: And then based on those results, we'll have a better sense on when we want to launch it. For us, the really critical thing is to have it be ready for 2027.

Speaker #5: That would imply late 2026 or early 2027 launch. But we're doing so well this year, and everything's firing on such kind of in such a strong way that there's no rush to put Edge into the market.

George Arison: I think someone's asked me in the past, and I said, you know, anywhere between 0.5% to 1 percentage point of our MAU being in EDGE after several years, I would view as a really powerful outcome. We're now looking at that kind of marketing piece of it and how to position it into the market and how to then price it based on the value that users are getting. The value equation is really the critical thing for us. We feel really good about where EDGE is headed. We are gonna put another test out into the market later this spring or perhaps in June. Based on those results, we'll have a better sense on when we wanna launch it.

Speaker #5: We think that getting it right and making sure that it can be as big as it can be and unleashing its full potential is where we would win the best.

Speaker #3: Great. That's helpful. And then just one more for me. One Q revenue growth really strong, but also kind of tracking well ahead of the full year guidance.

That a significant premium to what we, um, offer today. Um, you know, incrementally more, uh, and that gives us a lot of confidence that edge is a very good um, home run. And what we're now spending time on is determining whether H can be a grand slam, uh, with a higher price point, but the key to that is having better Clarity around how we want to position it in the in the product and kind of the marketing that we want to do around. It Edge, is not designed as a product for Mass consumption. It is built for a small number of power users on Grindr. Um, I think someone's asking me in the past and I said, you know, anywhere between half a percent to a percentage point of our M, being an edge after several years, I would view as a really powerful outcome. And so we're now looking at that kind of marketing piece of it and how to position it into the market and how to then price it based on the value that you are getting the value equations. Really the

Speaker #3: John, can you give me a sense of the shape of revenue growth over the course of the year? And then what are the major puts or takes that could lead revenue growth in the back half to be a little bit higher than we're expecting here?

Speaker #3: Thank you.

Speaker #4: Yeah, Nathan. Thanks for the question. So I'd break it into a few, I guess, topical comments to help frame it for you. And we alluded to this in the prepared remarks.

George Arison: I know for us, the really, really critical thing is to have it be ready for 2027. That would imply, you know, late 2026 or early 2027 launch. We're doing so well this year, and everything's firing on such a strong way that there's no rush to put EDGE into the market. We think that getting it right and making sure that it can be as big as it can be and unleashing its full potential is where we would win the best.

Speaker #4: We've certainly got a benefit from the pricing increases that we introduced at the end of last year. That was planned. That was baked in our forecast.

Critical thing for us. Um, so we feel really good about where I just headed. Um, we are going to put another test down to the market later. This spring, um, uh, or perhaps in June, uh, and then based on those results, we'll have a better sense on when we want to launch it. I know for us the really really critical thing is to have it be ready for 2027. Um that would imply, you know, late 2026 or early 2027 launch but we're doing so well this year and

Speaker #4: That was in the numbers we gave you when we introduced this year. I think we have a little bit of upside there. In the quarter, because we didn't see the typical churn to the degree that we would with pricing increases happening.

Everything's firing on such kind of, in such a strong way that there's no rush to put Edge, uh, into the market. Uh, we think that getting it right and making sure that it can be, as big as it can be, and unleashing, its full potential is where we would win, uh, the best.

Nathan Feather: Great. That's helpful. Just one more for me. You know, Q1 revenue growth, really strong, but also kind of tracking well ahead of the full year guidance. You know, John, can you give me a sense of the shape of revenue growth over the course of the year? What are the major puts or takes that could lead, you know, revenue growth in H2 to be a little bit higher than we're expecting? Thank you.

Speaker #4: So there was a little bit of a benefit there. The direct ads business we talked about has that large benefit this year with the campaign, with one of our key partners.

Speaker #4: And that came in a little I would say a little faster than we expected in the first part of the year. And so there's going to be a an impact in the back half of the year as a result.

John North: Yeah, Nathan, thanks for the question. I'd break it into a few, I guess, topical comments to help frame it for you, and we alluded to this in the prepared remarks. You know, we've certainly got a benefit from the pricing increases that we introduced at the end of last year. That was planned. That was baked in our forecast. That was in the numbers we gave you when we introduced this year. I think we have a little bit of upside there in the quarter because we didn't see the typical churn to the degree that we would with pricing increases happening. There was a little bit of a benefit there.

Great, that's helpful. And then just 1 more for me, you know, 1 Q, Revenue growth, really strong, but also kind of tracking, well, ahead of the full year guidance, you know, John. Can you give me give me um, a sense of the shape of Revenue growth over the course of the year and then what are the major puts or takes that could lead you know Revenue growth in the back half have to be a little bit higher than we're expecting here. Thank you.

Yeah, Nathan. Thanks for the question. Um,

Speaker #4: And those are the two kind of big drivers that push things ahead for us in the first quarter and let us to be confident enough to raise our outlook was for the year.

To help frame it for you, and we alluded to this in the prepared remarks, um,

Speaker #4: But on the back end of that, it's exactly what you flagged, which is that we're going to see a deceleration in the third and the fourth quarter.

you know, we've certainly got uh,

Speaker #4: Some of that's a function of having a really good fourth quarter last year. Where we outperformed. So it's a tougher comp. And some of it's really just the product cadence and how things are going to launch this year, which is exactly what we're expecting.

Speaker #4: We did also mention that we're investing in the future. So our margin is an important thing to talk about as well. We're expecting that to be impacted through the year because we're bringing on people and we're investing in products and things that are not revenue-generating that are going to set up 2027 and beyond.

John North: The direct ads business we talked about has that large benefit this year with the campaign with one of our key partners. You know, that came in a little faster than we expected in the first part of the year, there's gonna be an impact in the back half of the year as a result. Those are the two kind of big drivers that push things ahead for us in Q1 and led us to be confident enough to raise what our outlook was for the year. You know, on the back end of that, it's exactly what you flagged, which is that we're gonna see a deceleration in Q3 and Q4.

Speaker #4: And so that's all kind of what's in the thinking. And happy to dive into that in more detail with you offline if we can be more helpful from a modeling perspective.

Speaker #4: But we are anticipating a bit of a deceleration in the third and particularly the fourth quarter. To get to that implied full year number, which is exactly what we're anticipating.

John North: Some of that's a function of having a really good Q4 last year, where we outperformed, so it's a tougher comp. Some of it's, you know, really just the product cadence and how things are gonna launch this year, which is exactly what we're expecting. We did also mention that we're investing in the future, you know, so our margin is an important thing to talk about as well. We're expecting that, you know, to be impacted through the year because we're bringing on people and we're investing in products and things that are not revenue generating that are gonna set up 2027 and beyond. That's all kind of what's in the thinking, and happy to, you know, dive into that in more detail with you offline if we can be more helpful from a modeling perspective.

Speaker #4: And George maybe can talk a little bit more about some of the specifics around the product side.

Speaker #5: Yeah. So if you look at Grindr's history over the last five years, usually a step change in revenue kind of new revenue has come from something significant that we've launched on the product side.

A benefit from the pricing increases that we introduced at the end of last year, that was planned. That was that was baked in our forecast. That was in the numbers. We gave you, we introduced this year. Um, I think we have a little bit of upside there in the quarter because we didn't see the, uh, the typical churn, um, to the degree that we would with pricing increases happening. Um, so there was a little bit of a, of a benefit there. The direct ads business, we talked about has that large, um, benefit this year with the with the campaign was 1 of our key Partners. Um, you know, and and that came in a little, I would say, a little faster than we expected in the first part of the year. And so there's going to be a, uh, you know, an impact in the back half of the year as a result and those are the 2 kind of big drivers that push things ahead for us, um, in the first quarter and let us to be confident enough to raise, what our Outlook was for the year. Um, but, you know, on the back end of that, it's exactly what you flagged, which is that we're going to see a deceleration in the third and the fourth quarter. Some of that's a function of having a really good fourth quarter last year. Um, where we

Speaker #5: Because we are a product-driven kind of revenue company. So if you look at, say, 2021, we launched more profiles that led to a big step change in revenue growth.

Outperformed. So it's a tougher comp and some of its uh, you know, really just the product Cadence and how things are going to launch this year which is exactly what we're expecting. Um, we did also mention that we're investing in the future, you know. So our margin um, is an important thing to talk about as well. We're expecting that, you know, to be impacted through the year because we're bringing

Speaker #5: In 2022, we launched Boost, middle of the year, that led to a big growth in revenue in 2022 and then 2023. In 2024, we launched weekly pricing for unlimited.

John North: That's all kind of what's in the thinking, and happy to, you know, dive into that in more detail with you offline if we can be more helpful from a modeling perspective. We are anticipating a bit of a deceleration in Q3 and particularly Q4 to get to that implied full year number, which is exactly what we are anticipating. George maybe can talk a little bit more about some of the specifics around the product side.

John North: We are anticipating a bit of a deceleration in Q3 and particularly Q4 to get to that implied full year number, which is exactly what we are anticipating. George maybe can talk a little bit more about some of the specifics around the product side.

Speaker #5: That drove growth in revenue. So for our business to continue to grow revenue in a significant way, we need to launch the next big thing, kind of in a reasonable timeframe.

Speaker #5: The last big thing we launched was the price change, which was a way for us to monetize the value that we have created for users over the last two to four years.

George Arison: Yeah. If you look at Grindr's history over the last 5 years, usually a step change in revenue, a kind of new revenue, has come from something significant that we've launched on the product side because we are a product-driven kind of revenue company. If you look at, say, 2021, we launched more profiles that led to a big step change in revenue growth. In 2022, we launched Boost. Middle of the year, that led to a big growth in revenue in 2022 and 2023. In 2024, we launched weekly pricing for unlimited that drove growth in revenue. For our business to continue to grow revenue in a significant way, we need to launch the next big thing kind of in a reasonable timeframe.

People and we're investing in products and things that are not Revenue generating that are going to set up 2027 and Beyond. And so that's all kind of what's in the thinking and happy to you know dive into that in more detail with you offline if we can be more helpful from a modeling perspective but we are anticipating a bit of a deceleration uh in in the third and the fourth quarter to get to that implied full year number. Which is exactly what we're anticipating and George. Maybe we can talk a little bit more about some of the specifics around the product side.

Speaker #5: And the results of that have been really strong. Churn is down. Reactivations and activations are up, which is not what you'd expect to happen when you raise prices.

Speaker #5: But I think it speaks to the fact that we have created a ton of value in the product in our paid tiers. And users are recognizing that.

Speaker #5: So given that we started the price increases in Q4, then for us to have another step change in revenue growth in Q4 of this year, we would need to launch some big product.

Speaker #5: That next big product is Edge. And as I spoke earlier, we feel very confident about how well Edge will do. But we might not launch it in Q4.

Speaker #5: And that would lead to deceleration in Q4. And then acceleration looking into 2027. And that year obviously is looking really good from that point of view as well.

George Arison: The last big thing we launched was the price change, which was a way for us to monetize the value that we have created for users over the last, you know, two to four years. The results of that have been really strong. You know, churn is down, reactivations and activations are up, which is not what you'd expect to happen when you raise prices. I think it speaks to the fact that we have created a ton of value in the product in our paid tiers, and users are recognizing that. Given that we started the price increases in Q4, you know, then for us to have another step change in revenue growth in Q4 of this year, we would need to launch some big product.

Speaker #3: Very helpful. Thank you.

Speaker #1: Thank you. Our next question comes from Andrew Boone at Citizens. Andrew, you may now unmute your line and ask your question. Thank you.

Yeah. So we look at, um, Grinder's history of The Last 5 Years. Usually a step change in Revenue. Um, it kind of new Revenue has come from something significant that we've launched on the product side because we are a product driven, kind of Revenue, uh, company. Um, so if you look at say 2021, we launched more profiles that led to a big step change in Revenue growth in 2022, we launched boost middle of the year that led to a big growth in Revenue in 2022 and then 2023 and 2024, we launched weekly, um, pricing for unlimited that drove, um, growth in Revenue. So for our business to continue to grow Revenue in a significant way, we need to launch the next big thing, kind of in, in a reasonable time frame. Then, last big thing, we launched was the price change which was a way for us to monetize the value that we have created for users over the last, you know, 2 to 4 years. And the results of that have been

Speaker #5: Hi, Andrew.

Speaker #6: Thanks so much for taking the questions. I would love to ask about two things. One year term and then maybe one more that's strategic.

George Arison: Given that we started the price increases in Q4, you know, then for us to have another step change in revenue growth in Q4 of this year, we would need to launch some big product. That next big product is EDGE, and as I spoke earlier, we feel very confident about how well EDGE will do. We might not launch it in Q4, and that would lead to deceleration in Q4 and then acceleration looking into 2027. That year obviously is looking really good from that point of view as well.

Speaker #6: George, how do we think about matching sniffies in the competitive environment now that sniffies may have a larger balance sheet and funding behind it?

Speaker #6: And then as we think about your platform evolution here, it's really clear that there's a bigger picture strategic view. Can you bring this more into financial terms for us and talk about the benefit that we should expect in terms of shareholders, from the broadening of the platform and what that could mean from a financial lens?

George Arison: That next big product is EDGE, and as I spoke earlier, we feel very confident about how well EDGE will do. We might not launch it in Q4, and that would lead to deceleration in Q4 and then acceleration looking into 2027. That year obviously is looking really good from that point of view as well.

Speaker #6: Thanks so much.

Speaker #5: Great. Thanks for the question. So on sniffies, I'll start with the congratulations. We've gotten to know the sniffies guys over the last couple of years.

Strong, you know churn is down um reactivation and activations are up, which is not what you'd expect to happen when um, you raise prices. But I, I think it speaks to the fact that we have created a ton of value in the product in our pay tears and users are recognizing that. So, uh, given that we started the price increases in Q4, um, you know, then for us to have another step change in Revenue growth, in Q4 this year, we would need to have launched some big product that next big product is Edge, and, as I spoke earlier, we feel very confident about how, well as you will do, um, but we might not launch it in Q4 and that would lead to deceleration in Q4 and then, uh, acceleration looking into 2027. Um, and that year, obviously, is looking really good from that point of view as well.

Nathan Feather: Very helpful. Thank you.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from Andrew Boone at Citizens. Andrew, you may now unmute your line and ask your question. Thank you.

Speaker #5: I've spent time with Blake and his brother. And I'm very happy for them. They were looking for liquidity. And I'm very glad that it happened.

George Arison: Hi, Andrew.

Andrew Boone: Thanks so much for taking the questions. I would love to ask about two things, one near term and then maybe one more that's strategic. George, how do we think about Match and Sniffies in the competitive environment now that Sniffies may have a larger balance sheet and funding behind it? As we think about your platform evolution here, it's really clear that there's a bigger picture strategic view. Can you bring this more into financial terms for us and talk about the benefit that we should expect in terms of shareholders from the broadening of the platform and what that could mean from a financial lens? Thanks so much.

Very helpful. Thank you. Thank you. Our next question comes from Andrea Boone at citizens. Andrew, you may now unmute your line and ask your questions. Thank you.

Speaker #5: In this powerful way. I'm also a little bit happy for Grindr because this investment really speaks to the work that we've done in getting the public market used to a company like Grindr.

Thanks so much for taking the questions. Um, I would love to ask about 2 things, 1 near term and then maybe 1 more that's strategic.

Speaker #5: If you look at where we are today versus where we were three and a half years ago with the world has fundamentally changed. And so I think our team has done a really fantastic job in letting people understand what Grindr is and how big the opportunity space here is.

Uh George, how do we think about match and sniffies in the competitive environment? Now that sniffies may have a larger balance sheet, and funding behind it. And then, as we think about your, your platform Evolution here, it's really clear that there's a bigger picture, strategic view, can you bring this more into financial terms for us and talk about the benefit that we should expect in terms of of shareholders?

Speaker #5: I don't know if people know, but about a decade ago, match really wanted to buy Grindr. And the team was really behind it. And they got blocked by the board.

From the broadening of the platform and what that could mean from a financial lens. Thanks so much.

George Arison: Great. Thanks for the question. On Sniffies, I'll start with a congratulations. You know, we've gotten to know the Sniffies guys over the last couple of years. I've spent time with Blake and his brother, and I'm, you know, very happy for them. They were looking for liquidity, and I'm very glad that it happened in this powerful way. I'm also a little bit happy for Grindr because this investment really speaks to the work that we've done in getting the public market used to a company like Grindr. You know, if you look at where we are today versus where we were three and a half years ago, the world has fundamentally changed.

Speaker #5: So it's awesome that we're now past that. And there was acceptance of investing in sniffies. As far as in a competition for us, we always pay attention to competition.

Speaker #5: And Grindr's had plenty of competition from the day, frankly, started, right? Grindr was not the first digital gay product. Manhunt and Adam for Adam were by far the dominant platforms when Grindr launched.

Speaker #5: And ever since then, Grindr's had competition. So we always pay attention to competition. And it obviously matters. But from our perspective, what really matters is us being the product that people go to first in wallet.

George Arison: I think our team has done a really fantastic job in letting people understand what Grindr is and how big the opportunity space here is. I don't know if people know, but, you know, about a decade ago, Match really wanted to buy Grindr, and the team was really behind it, and they got blocked by the board. It's awesome that we're now past that and there was acceptance of investing in Sniffies. As far as, you know, competition for us, you know, we always pay attention to competition, and Grindr's had plenty of competition from the day, frankly, started, right? Grindr was not the first digital gay product. Manhunt and Adam4Adam were by far the dominant platforms when Grindr launched, and ever since then, Grindr's had competition.

I'm also a little bit happy for grinder because um, this investment really speaks to the work that we've done in getting the public market used to a company like Grindr. Um, you know if you look at where we are today versus where we are 3 and a half years ago, the world is fundamentally changed. And so I think our team has done a really fantastic job in

Speaker #5: And spend the most amount of time in. And our most engaged with. And by every metric that we have internally, that is continuing to be the case.

Speaker #5: And frankly, in some respects, it's accelerating. Like in the time period that I've been at Grindr, the amount of time that people spend on the app has only increased.

Speaker #5: And so we feel really good about our position in the market go-forward basis. Sniffies is a different product. And it serves a very specific use case.

Speaker #5: So sniffies entered the market when Craigslist eliminated Personals. Out of concern for sex trafficking. And that opened up this space for cruising for people who were using Craigslist before and was a very heavily used product.

George Arison: So we always pay attention to competition, and it obviously matters. From our perspective, what really matters is us being the product that people go to first in wallet and spend the most amount of time in and are most engaged with. By every metric that we have internally, that has continued to be the case, and frankly, in some respects, is accelerating. Like, in the time period that I've been at Grindr, the amount of time that people spend on the app has only increased. So we feel really good about our position in the market and what we need to do on a go-forward basis. You know, Sniffies is a different product, and it serves a very specific use case.

Speaker #5: And that's the kind of space that sniffies has captured. We obviously have a much broader set of use cases. That really kind of offer users many different things.

Speaker #5: And so we feel we're in a really good place in that regard. And again, there's place for more than one product. We know people use more than one product.

Letting people understand what grinder is and how big the opportunity space. Um, here is, I don't know if people know but, um, you know, about a decade ago, um, uh, match really wanted to buy grinder and the team was really behind it, and they got blocked by the board. So it's awesome that we're now past that and it was acceptance of investing in cities. Um, as far as, you know, competition for us, you know, we always pay attention to competition and grind us have plenty of competition, um, from the date, frankly started, alright, grinder was not the first digital gay product Manhunt and Adam for Adam where, by far the dominant platforms on Grindr launched and ever, since then Grinders had competition. So we always pay attention to competition and it, it, Matt obviously matters. But from our perspective, what really matters is us being the product that, um, people go to First in wallet and spend the most amount of time in and our most engaged with and by every metric that we have internally um that is continue to be the case and frankly in some respect.

Speaker #5: And that's totally OK. So we are focused on executing our strategy. And we're speeding up, not slowing down. It's how I think about it.

Speaker #5: On your second question on the platform, when I joined Grindr and frankly, for the year before I joined Grindr, when I was learning more about Grindr, the assumption I would hear from everybody was the best way for Grindr to make more revenue is to get more people to become payers.

George Arison: Sniffies entered the market when Craigslist eliminated personals out of concern for sex trafficking, and that opened up this space for cruising for people who were using Craigslist before and was a very heavily used product, and that's the kind of space that Sniffies has captured. We obviously have a much broader set of use cases that really kind of, you know, offer users many different things, and so we feel we're in a really good place in that regard. Again, there's place for more than one product. We know people use more than one product, and that's totally okay. We're focused on executing our strategy, and we're speeding up, not slowing down, is how I think about it.

Speaker #5: And there's logic to that, right? Grindr was at sub-6% payer penetration. And our peers in the straight category are at 15%, maybe even 20%.

Speaker #5: And so it would make sense that you could convert a lot more people to become payers. But our and we've done a bunch of that, right?

Speaker #5: We've gone from sub-6% to 8.5% plus percent. And that's with mild growing, pretty significantly. So we had state static. We'd be over 10% payer penetration.

George Arison: On your second question on the platform, you know, when I joined Grindr, and frankly, for the year before I joined Grindr, when I was learning more about Grindr, the assumption I would hear from everybody was the best way for Grindr to make more revenue is to get more people to become payers. There's logic to that, right? Grindr was at sub 6% payer penetration, and our peers in the straight category are at, you know, 15%, maybe even 20%. So it would make sense that you could convert a lot more people to become payers. We've done a bunch of that, right? We've gone from, you know, sub 6% to 8.5%+, and that's with now growing pretty significantly.

Speaker #5: Today. But ultimately, the free experience on Grindr is really, really critical. And that's the reason why everyone comes into the product. On a regular basis, as they become adults.

Perspective accelerating like in the time period that I've been at grinder. The amount of time that people spend on the app has only increased. Um, and so we feel really good about our position in the market and what we need to do, um, on a go forward basis. You know, sniffies, um, is a different product and it serves a very specific use case. So sniffies entered the market when Craigslist, um, eliminated personals, uh, out of concern for sex trafficking. And that opened up this, uh, space for cruising, um, for people who were using Craigslist before, and was a very heavily used product, and that's the kind of space that Smith has captured. We obviously have a much broader set of use cases, um, that really kind of, you know, offer us as many different things. And so we feel we're in a really good place in that regard. And again, there's place for more than 1 product. We know people use more than a product, that's that's totally okay. So we are focused on executing our strategy and we're speeding up. Not slowing down is how I think about it on your second question on.

The platform.

Speaker #5: And so from our view, the better way to monetize on a go-forward basis is to create value-added experiences for people. On a premium level.

You know, when I joined grinder and frankly for the year before I joined grinder, when I was um, learning more about grinder, the Assumption I would hear from, everybody was the best way for grinder. Do make more revenue is to get more people to become pairs.

Speaker #5: And hence why we're building Edge. And a bunch of other premium experiences inside the product. So from that perspective, creating a more upscale experience for our brand is something that will help a more elevated and a more premium experience in the product.

Speaker #5: And that will be the primary way in which we drive revenue growth in '27 and '28 and beyond. By the way, none of this is new.

George Arison: If we had stayed static, we'd be over 10% payer penetration today. Ultimately, the free experience on Grindr is really, really critical, and that's the reason why everyone comes into the product on a regular basis as they become adults. From our view, the better way to monetize on a go-forward basis is to create value-added experiences for people on a premium level, and hence why we're building EDGE and a bunch of other premium experiences inside the product. From that perspective, creating a more upscale experience for our brand is something that will help a more elevated and a more premium experience in the product. That will be the primary way in which we drive revenue growth, you know, in 2027 and 2028 and beyond. By the way, none of this is new.

Speaker #5: This is what we had set out to do when we talked about it and invest today. We just executing it on it at roughly the timeline that we had expected we'd be doing.

Speaker #6: And George, I'll just hop in. I mean, on the longer-term margin question, that's really not the primary focus for us. There's certainly a world in which we could continue to turn levers within the business to improve the EBITDA margin, whether it's more payer conversion, whether it's getting more productivity out of people, whether it's figuring out direct payments so we don't pay so much in fees to the app store.

George Arison: From that perspective, creating a more upscale experience for our brand is something that will help a more elevated and a more premium experience in the product. That will be the primary way in which we drive revenue growth, you know, in 2027 and 2028 and beyond. By the way, none of this is new. This is what we had set out to do, when we talked about it in Investor Day. We're just executing on it, at roughly the timeline that we had expected we'd be doing.

And there's logic to that, right? The grinder was at sub 6% pair penetration, um, and, uh, our peers in the straight category at, all right? You know, 15% maybe even 20 and so it would make sense that you could convert a lot more people to become pairs, but our, uh, and we've done a bunch of that, right? We've gone from, you know, sub 6% to 8 and a half plus percent and that's with now growing pretty significantly. So we had State static and we'd be over 10%, pay penetration today. But um ultimately the free experience on Grindr is really, really critical. And that's the reason why everyone comes into the product on a regular basis as they become adults. And so, you know, from our view the better way to monetize on a go forward basis is to create value added experiences for people um, on a premium level and hence why we're building edge and a bunch of other premium experiences inside the product. So from that perspective,

Speaker #6: There's things that can be done. But that's not been the primary focus. Growing the revenue base overall and diversifying the revenue base in different ways is where the focus is.

Speaker #6: And we're consciously investing and taking a view to the future, both this year and beyond, to continue to create the growth avenues for Grindr, which is more important to us.

George Arison: This is what we had set out to do, when we talked about it in Investor Day. We're just executing on it, at roughly the timeline that we had expected we'd be doing.

Speaker #6: So I would much rather see an improving growth rate as opposed to an improving margin percentage.

John North: George, I'll just hop in. I mean, on the longer term margin question, you know, that's really not the primary focus for us. There's certainly a world in which we could continue to turn levers within the business to improve the EBITDA margin, whether it's, you know, more payer conversion, whether it's getting more productivity out of people, whether it's figuring out direct payments so we don't pay so much in fees to the App Store. There's things that can be done, but that's not been the primary focus.

Creating a more upscale experience for our brand, uh, is something that will help and more elevated and more premium experience in the product and that will be the primary way in which we drive Revenue growth, you know, in 27, and 28 and Beyond. By the way, none of this is new. Like, this is what we had set out to do. Uh, when we talked about it and invest today, we're just executing it on it, uh, at roughly the timeline that we had expected, we'd be doing

Speaker #1: Thank you. Our next question comes from Andrew Marok at Raymond James. Andrew, you may now unmute your line and ask your question. Thank you.

And George, I'll just hop in. I mean, on the longer term margin question, you know, that's really not the primary focus for us.

Speaker #3: Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. Maybe first on the age assurance issue. We've seen some other companies in the digital media ecosystem kind of have variable results with how they are impacted by age restrictions or age checks.

John North: You know, growing the revenue base overall and diversifying the revenue base in different ways is where the focus is, and we're consciously investing and taking, you know, a view, a view to the future, you know, both this year and beyond to continue to create the growth avenues for Grindr, which is more important to us. I would much rather see an improving growth rate as opposed to an improving margin percentage.

Speaker #3: So I guess, what are some of the key learnings that you've seen in the geographies where they've been required so far? And how can they inform future potential implementations to kind of minimize the friction of engagement or sign-up based on the particular concerns of the Grindr community?

There's certainly a world in which we could continue to turn levers within the business to improve the, the eita margin, whether it's, you know, more pay or conversion whether it's getting more productivity out of people. Whether it's figuring out direct payments. So we don't pay so much in fees to the App Store. You know, there's things that can be done but that's not been the primary focus. You know, growing the revenue base overall in diversifying, the revenue base in different ways is where the focus is and we're consciously investing and taking

Speaker #3: And then maybe second on advertising, great to hear about the full-year campaign. I guess, was there anything in particular that got this company to come on and make a big campaign?

And improving growth rate as opposed to an improving margin percentage.

Operator: Thank you. Our next question comes from Andrew Marok at Raymond James. Andrew, you may now unmute your line and ask your question. Thank you.

Thank you.

Our next question.

Speaker #3: Or was it just kind of fortuitous timing and how the pipeline of those bigger deals might be? Thank you.

Andrew Marok: Hi. Thanks for taking my questions. First on the age assurance issue. We've seen some other companies in the digital media ecosystem kinda have variable results with how they are impacted by age restrictions or age checks. I guess, what are some of the key learnings that you've seen in the geographies where they've been required so far, and how can they inform future potential implementations to kinda minimize the friction of engagement or sign-up based on the particular concerns of the Grindr community? Second on advertising. Great to hear about the full-year campaign. I guess, was there anything in particular that got this company to come on and make a big campaign or was it just kind of fortuitous timing and how the pipeline of those bigger deals might be? Thank you.

Andrew, you may now unmute your line and ask your question. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Thanks for the questions. On age assurance, I always want to start by saying Grindr is an 18-plus product. We don't want anybody under 18 using Grindr.

Speaker #4: And we are really strong proponents of app store or phone-based age verification. And we've endorsed federal legislation that would mandate that at the national level.

Speaker #4: And we've supported legislation in California and Texas and Utah that's achieved that as well. And I think that's really, really important. I'm a dad.

Speaker #4: And I don't want my six-and-a-half-year-olds being on Grindr. And I don't want them touching Grindr until they're 18. And that's something we believe in really, really strongly.

Speaker #4: The approach that some of the countries have taken internationally at mandating age verification at the app level comes with a lot of challenges. To the user, it means that a user has to validate their age in multiple apps.

George Arison: Thanks for the questions. On age assurance, I always wanna start by saying Grindr is an 18-plus product. We don't want anybody under 18 using Grindr, and we are really strong proponents of App Store or phone-based age verification. We've endorsed federal legislation that would mandate that at the national level. We've supported legislation in California, Texas, and Utah that's achieved that as well. I think that's really, really important. I'm a dad, I don't want my 6.5 year olds being on Grindr, I don't want them touching Grindr until they're 18, and that's something we believe in really, really strongly. The approach that some of the countries have taken internationally at mandating age verification at the app level comes with a lot of challenges to the user.

Hi, thanks for taking my questions. Um, maybe first on the Asia insurance issue. We've seen some other companies in the digital media. Ecosystem kind of have variable results with how they are impacted by age restrictions or age checks. So I guess what are some of the key learnings that you've seen in the geographies where they've been required so far and how can they inform future potential implementations to kind of? Um, minimize the the friction of of Engagement or sign up based on the uh, particular concerns of the grinder community? And then maybe second on Advertising. Um, great to hear about the full Year campaign. Um, I guess was there anything in particular that got this this company to come on and make a big campaign? Or was it just kind of fortuitous timing and how the pipeline of those bigger deals might be? Thank you.

Speaker #4: Which obviously increases the risk that their information will come out. And we have a set of users because something's leaked, et cetera. And we have a set of users who are extremely privacy conscious.

Speaker #4: Oftentimes, they're people who are still in the closet. Who are very, very discreet. And these adult users, and I want to be very clear, we're talking about adults, just simply choose to drop out of the process before they go through the age verification flow.

Um, thanks for the questions on age Assurance. I, I always want to start by saying Grinders and 18 plus products. Um, we don't want anybody under 18 using grinder and we are really strong proponents of app store or phone based age verification, uh, and we've endorsed Federal legislation. Um, that would mandate that.

Speaker #4: We actually have a pretty good age verification flow. We use facial recognition to determine if you are of age first. And only if that technology is unable to determine that you are over 18, do we then put you to a secondary flow where you have to show ID.

George Arison: It means that a user has to validate their age in multiple apps, which obviously increases the risk that their information will come out. We have a set of users because, you know, something's leaked, et cetera. We have a set of users who are extremely privacy-conscious. Oftentimes they're people who are still in the closet, who are very, very discreet. These adult users, and I wanna be very clear, we're talking about adults, just simply choose to drop out of the process before they go through the age verification flow. We actually have a pretty good age verification flow.

Speaker #4: But even that process alone gets some people to drop off. And these are adults, not people who are underage. And so we think that the alternatives to that, which is the app store or mobile device-based verification, is a much better approach.

Speaker #4: And that's what we're going to keep advocating for. But obviously, we'll comply with laws as they happen. It has impacted mild growth, to be very clear.

Speaker #4: Mild is still growing. Very nicely, actually. But mild would have grown by an amount larger than what it's going to grow this year if these rules were not in place, in some of the countries.

At the national level, uh, and we've supported legislation in California and Texas and Utah. Um, that's achieved that as well. Uh, and I think that's really, really important. I'm a dad and I don't want my 6 and a half year olds, um, being on Grindr and I don't want them touching grinder until they're 18 and that's something we believe in, um, really, really strongly. Um, the approach that some of the countries have taken internationally at mandating age of verification is the app app level, um, comes with a lot of challenges, uh, to the user. It means that a user has to validate their, um, age in multiple apps, uh, which obviously increases the risk that, um, their information will come out. Um, and we have a set of users because, you know, something's leaked Etc. Um, and we, you know, we have a set of users who are extremely privacy conscious, um, often times the people who are still in the closet, uh, who are very, very discreet, and these adult users. And I want to be very clever. We're talking about adults, just simply just a drop.

George Arison: We use facial recognition to determine if you are of age first and only if that technology is unable to determine that you're over 18 do we then put you to a secondary flow where you have to show ID. Even that process alone gets some people to drop off, and these are adults, not people who are underage. We think that the alternatives to that, which is the App Store or mobile device, based verification, is a much better approach, and that's what we're gonna keep advocating for. Obviously, we'll comply with laws as they happen. It has impacted MAU growth. To be very clear, MAU is still growing very nicely actually.

Speaker #4: And I would expect more countries will adopt rules that are similar to this. Though again, we're going to continue advocating for app store or device level verification.

Speaker #4: On advertising, so maybe to step back a little bit on the ads business overall before I answer the specific question. We've had incredible success with that business.

Out of the process before they go through the age, verification flow. Um, we actually have a pretty good age, verification flow, we use, um, facial recognition to determine. Um, if you are of age first, and only if that technology is unable to determine that you're over. 18. Do we then um, put you to a secondary flow where you have to show ID but even that process alone gets some people to to drop off and these are adults not people who are underage. And so um we think that

Speaker #4: We went from a roughly $30 million business in 2022 that was decelerating and, frankly, didn't really have a path to grow. To a business that, based on guidance that we've shown you, is going to be over $90 million this year.

Speaker #4: So that's tripling the business in a four-year period, which I think the team deserves nothing but huge congratulations for that. And we've said at Investor Day we want advertising business to be kind of roughly the same percentage of revenue as it was in 2022, which is roughly 15%.

George Arison: MAU would have grown by, you know, an amount larger than what it's gonna grow this year if these rules were not in place in some of the countries. I would expect more countries will adopt rules that are similar to this. Again, we're gonna continue advocating for App Store or device-level verification. On advertising, maybe to step back a little bit on the ads business overall before I answer this specific question. We've had incredible success with that business. We went from a roughly $30 million business in 2022 that was decelerating and frankly didn't really have a path to grow, to a business that, based on guidance that we've shown you know, is gonna be over $90 million this year.

Speaker #4: That meant that the ads business had to grow faster than the core business. And again, it's achieved that. So I'm very, very proud of what the team has done.

Speaker #4: At the same time, where I've probably been most disappointed in my time at Grindr, is that getting the direct ad business, where brands come and work directly with us, has not been as successful as, frankly, I would have liked it to be.

The alternatives to that, which is the app store or mobile device. Um, B based verification is a much better approach and that's what we're going to, uh, keep advocating for. But obviously, we'll comply with laws as they happen. Um, it has impacted my growth to be very clear Mao is still growing. Um, very nicely actually but Ma would have grown by uh, you know, an an amount larger than what it's going to grow this year. If these rules were not in place in some of the countries, um, and I would expect more countries will adopt rules that are similar to this, though. Again we're going to continue advocating for App Store or device level, um, uh, uh, verification on Advertising. So maybe to step back a little bit on the ads business overall. Before I answer the specific question,

Speaker #4: We hear from brands a ton that they want to reach our type of audience. That is tastemaking. That has high disposable income. Et cetera.

George Arison: So that's tripling the business in a 4-year period, which I think the team deserves nothing but huge congratulations for that. You know, we've said at Investor Day, we want advertising business to be kinda roughly the same percentage of revenue as it was in 2022, which is roughly 15%. That meant that the ads business had to grow faster than the core business, and again, it's achieved that. So I'm very, very proud of what the team has done. At the same time, where I've, you know, probably been most disappointed in my time at Grindr is that getting the direct ad business, where brands come and work directly with us, has not been as successful as frankly I would have liked it to be.

Speaker #4: But they're not willing to put dollars to work on Grindr. And that's still work that we have to do from the brand perspective, on our brand, that's the work that we do from technology perspective, in creating the technology that advertisers want us to have in the application to help them advertise.

Speaker #4: As well as from data perspective, like what are they actually getting in return. Grindr is a great place to advertise from the point of view of building your brand.

Speaker #4: It is not a direct response type of a channel. Because people are in a different mindset when they're on Grindr. They're not actively looking to kind of transact on something else when they're in the app.

Speaker #4: And so that obviously creates a special way of pitching the brand perspective of it. People are very used to buying direct response ads. But less so for what we offer.

George Arison: We hear from brands a ton that they wanna reach our type of audience, that is taste-making, that has high disposable income, et cetera, but they're not willing to put dollars to work on Grindr. That's still work that we have to do from the brand perspective on our brand. That's the work that we have to do from technology perspective and creating the technology that advertisers want us to have in the application to help them advertise, as well as from data perspective, like what are they actually getting in return. Grindr is a great place to advertise from the point of view of building your brand. It is not a direct response type of a channel, because people are in a different mindset when they're on Grindr.

Speaker #4: I'm still very bullish that over the long term, we will win in that direct advertising business. But I think it's going to take us a really long time.

Speaker #4: That doesn't mean that the ad business cannot grow. We expect the ad business to keep growing. In the years to come. And to stay at that 15% of total revenue baseline.

But huge. Congratulations for that. Um, and uh, you know, we've said that investor we want advertising is going to be kind of roughly the same percentage of Revenue as it was in 2022, which is roughly 15% that meant that the ad business had to grow faster than the core business. And again, it's achieved that, uh, so I'm very very proud of what what the team has done at the same time where I've, you know, probably been most disappointed in my time at grinder, is that getting the direct at business? Where Brands come and work directly with us, has not been as um, successful as frankly. I would have liked it to be. We hear from Brands a ton that they want to reach our type of audience. Um, that is pacemaking that has high disposable income Etc but they're not willing to put dollars to work um at on Grindr. And that's the work that we have to do from the brand perspective on our brand. Um, that's the work that we do from technology perspective and creating the technology that advertisers want us to have in

Speaker #4: That we had in 2022. And that we've aimed to maintain. So there's still a ton of growth for the ad business. I think we'll continue to see a ton of positive results from rewarded video, which actually makes the user experience in the app better as well.

George Arison: They're not actually looking to kind of transact on something else when they're in the app. That obviously creates a special way of, you know, pitching the brand perspective of it. People are very used to buying direct response ads, but less so for what we offer. I'm still very bullish that over the long term we will win in that direct advertising business, but I think it's gonna take us a really long time. That doesn't mean that the ad business cannot grow. We expect the ad business to keep growing in the years to come and to stay at that 15% of total revenue, the baseline that we had in 2022 and that we've aimed to maintain. There's still a ton of growth for the ad business.

Speaker #4: So that's one of the things that we are seeing a lot of traction with. With this particular advertiser, we had been working on them for almost two years.

Speaker #4: And they had been advertising with us during that period of time as well. It's the same advertiser that had a big push in Q4 of 2024, you might remember, when we had a big uptick in revenue as a result of that.

The application can help them advertise as well, and from a data perspective, it’s about what they are actually getting in return. Grindr is a great place to advertise from the point of view of building your brand. It is not a direct-response type of channel, because people are in a different mindset. When I’m on Grindr, I’m not actively looking to transact on something else, whereas when they’re in the app, and so, um, that obviously creates a special way of, you know, pitching the brand perspective of it. People are very used to buying.

Direct response ads, but less so, uh, for what, what we offer. Um, I'm still very bullish that over. The long term, we will win, uh, in that direct advertising business, but I think it's going to take us a really long time.

Speaker #4: So we have a relationship with them. We're really happy that they're advertising. But I wouldn't expect something similar to repeat in 2026. Hopefully, we can create more opportunities for bigger direct advertising partners in 2027.

Speaker #4: Sorry, in 2028 and beyond.

George Arison: I think we'll continue to see a ton of positive results from rewarded video, which actually makes the user experience in the app better as well. That's one of the things that we are seeing a lot of traction with. With this particular advertiser, we had been working on them for almost 2 years, and they had been advertising with us during that period of time as well. It's the same advertiser that had a big push in Q4 of 2024, you might remember, when we had a big uptick in revenue as a result of that. You know, we have a relationship with them. We're really happy that they're advertising, I wouldn't expect something similar to repeat in 2026.

Speaker #1: Thank you. Appreciate it.

Speaker #3: Thank you. Our final question today comes from Logan Whalley, at TD Cohen. Logan, you may now unmute your line and ask your question. Thank you.

Speaker #4: Hey there. Thanks for the questions. First, can I ask about discrete mode and kind of how you think users will engage with that feature looking forward?

Speaker #4: Do you expect this kind of opens up a new use case when with the app? Or maybe just changes how people engage with the app?

Speaker #4: And then secondly, on your plans for incremental hiring in the middle of the year, where do you expect that headcount efforts will be directed towards within the business?

George Arison: Hopefully, we can create more opportunities for bigger direct advertising, partners in 2028 and beyond.

That doesn't mean that the ad business cannot grow. We expect the ad business to keep growing, uh, in the years to come and to stay at that 15%, um, of total revenue, um, um, the Baseline that we had in 2022 and that we've aimed to, to maintain. So there's still a ton of growth for the ad business. Uh, I think we'll continue to see a ton of positive results from rewarded video, um, which uh, actually makes the user experience the app better as well. So that's 1 of the things that we are seeing a lot of traction. Um, with, with this particular Advertiser, we had been working on them, um, for almost 2 years and they had been advertising with us during that period, um, of time as well. Um, it's the same Avatar that had a big, um, push in Q4 of 20204, you might remember when we had a big uptick in in Revenue as a result of that. So, you know, we have a relationship with them. We're really happy that they're advertising but, um, I wouldn't expect something similar to repeat in 2026. Hopefully, we can create more

Speaker #4: Thanks.

Speaker #5: Great. Well, I'll take the first one and maybe John and I can split the second one. So on discrete mode, discrete is for right now specifically.

Opportunities for bigger, direct advertising. Um, Partners in 2027, sorry in 2028 and and Beyond.

Andrew Marok: Thank you. Appreciate it.

Appreciate it.

Operator: Thank you. Our final question today comes from Logan Whalley at TD Cowen. Logan, you may now unmute your line and ask your question. Thank you.

Speaker #5: So it's not a you can not to be discrete on the app overall. We already have a way for people to browse the grid without actually showing up on the grid, if that's what they want.

Speaker #5: And some people do want that. But this is for right now. What we heard from a lot of users who we surveyed or got feedback from was that they want to post in right now.

Logan Whalley: Hey there. Thanks for the questions. First, can I ask about discreet mode and kind of how you think users will engage with that feature looking forward? Do you expect this kind of opens up a new use case with the app or maybe just changes how people engage with the app? Secondly, on your plans for incremental hiring in the middle of the year, where do you expect that headcount efforts will be directed towards within the business? Thanks.

Thank you. Our final question. Today comes from Logan. We at TD Cohen Logan. You may now unmute your line and ask your question. Thank you.

Speaker #5: But they don't want their posting in right now, to be connected to their profile on Grindr. Because a lot of people have friendships on Grindr.

Speaker #5: And for discretion reasons, they don't want to be telling everyone they know, hey, I'm posting in right now. Which is perfectly reasonable. And so the discrete mode has enabled that capability, where a person can post on right now will receive messages from other people who are in right now.

George Arison: Great. Well, I'll take the first one and maybe John and I can split the second one. On discreet mode, discreet is for Right Now specifically, you can not to be discreet on the app overall. We already have a way for people to browse the grid without actually showing up on the grid if that's what they want, and some people do want that. This is for Right Now.

Hey there. Thanks for the questions. Um, first, can I ask about discrete mode and kind of how you think users will engage with that feature looking forward? Um, do you expect this kind of opens up a new use case with the app, or maybe just changes how people engage with the app? Um, and then secondly, on your plans for incremental hiring in the middle of the year, where do you expect that headcount efforts will be directed towards within the business? Thanks.

Speaker #5: Or who are interested in right now. But you will not be able to see the connection to your regular profile and that way kind of keep that discretion.

Speaker #5: So that's something that people really wanted. I think it's going to be a good feature in making right now a better product for people who want that.

George Arison: What we heard from a lot of users, who we surveyed or got feedback from was that they wanna post in Right Now, but they don't want their posting in Right Now to be connected to their profile on Grindr because a lot of people, you know, have friendships on Grindr and for discretion reasons, they don't wanna be telling everyone they know, I'm posting in Right Now, which is perfectly reasonable. The discreet mode has enabled that capability where a person can post on Right Now, will receive messages from other people who are in Right Now, or who are interested in Right Now, but you will not be able to see the connection to your regular profile. That way you kinda keep that discretion. You know, that's something that people really wanted.

Speaker #5: But there's a ton that we're doing with right now that I'm not yet in a position to publicly talk about that I think will keep making that experience better and better for people.

Um, great. Um, well, I'll, I'll take the first 1 and, and maybe John and I can split the second 1. Um, so on discrete mode, discreet is for right now, specifically. So, it's not a, you can not to be discreet on the, on the app. Overall, we already have a way for people to browse the grid without actually showing up on the grid if that's what they want. And some people do want that. But, this is for right now. The what we heard from a lot of users, um, who, uh, we surveyed or got feedback from was that they want to post in right now, but they don't want their posting in right now to be connected to their profile. Um, on

Speaker #5: We have a very large percentage of Grindr users that use right now on a multi-times-a-week basis. And so we're really happy with that. But we still think there's more that we can do to make it even better.

Binder because a lot of people, you know, have friendships on Grindr and uh for discretion reasons they don't want to be telling everyone. They know hey I'm posting in right now.

Speaker #5: When it comes to hiring, we definitely went into the we've been behind on the number of people that we need for quite some time, right?

Speaker #5: I am known to run a very lean operation. Grindr has over 2.7 million in revenue per head at the end of last year. And so we felt that we need more people.

George Arison: I think it's gonna be a good feature in making Grindr Right Now a better product for people who want that. There's a ton that we're doing with Right Now that I'm not yet in a position to publicly talk about that I think will keep making that experience better and better for people. We have a very large percentage of Grindr users that use Right Now on a multi times a week basis, we're really happy with that, we still think there's more that we can do to make it even better. When it comes to hiring, you know, we definitely we've been behind on the number of people that we need for quite some time, right? I'm known to run a very lean operation.

Speaker #5: And we had a fairly aggressive hiring plan for the year. We are probably we're doing very well on hiring. But I don't think we're going to end up hiring everyone that we had envisioned.

Speaker #5: And that's reflected in the EBITDA margin or in the EBITDA raise that we gave for the year in this release. One of the reasons why we won't probably hire everyone is because how we work is fundamentally changing.

Speaker #5: We've said in the past that our engineers are self-reporting that they are 1.5x more productive than they were nine months ago. We now have teams of on the product team that are being small teams of four people are able to produce as much work in a week as teams of 10 or 20 people would have previously produced in the course of a month.

George Arison: Grindr has, you know, over $2.7 million in revenue per head at the end of last year. We felt that we need more people. We had a fairly aggressive hiring plan for the year. We are probably, we're doing very well on hiring, but I don't think we're gonna end up hiring everyone that we had envisioned, and that's reflected in the EBITDA margin, or in the EBITDA raise that we gave for the year in this release. You know, one of the reasons why we won't probably hire everyone is because how we work is fundamentally changing. We've said in the past that our engineers are self-reporting that they are 1.5x more productive than they were, you know, 9 months ago.

Speaker #5: And that's all because of AI. The roles of engineer, product manager, designer, data scientist, our kind of collapsing. In that now they are all doing all parts of that work, meaning a designer can code and function as a product manager or a product manager can code and also do design.

Um but there's a ton that we're doing with right now um that I'm not yet in a position to publicly talk about um that I think will keep making that experience better and better for people. We have a very large percentage of grinder users that use right now on a multi times a week basis. And so we're really happy with that. But we still think there's more that we can do to make it even better. Um, when it comes to hiring, you know, we, uh, definitely, uh, went into the we've been behind on the number of people that we need for quite some time, right? I'm known to run a very lean operation, uh, grinder has you know, over 2.7 million Revenue per head at the end of last year. Um, and so uh, uh, we we felt that we need more people and, and we had a fairly aggressive hiring plan for the year. Um, we are probably, uh, we're doing very well on hiring, but I don't think we're going to end up hiring everyone that we had envisioned and that's reflected in the ibida margin uh or in the ibida race that we gave um for for the year in in

Speaker #5: And so terraforming this business to be an AI-native business is really changing how we work. And the amount of productivity that you're getting from the teams.

Speaker #5: And as a result, we given how lean we are, we don't have the same problems that a lot of other companies have. But we do and we still need more people in terms of hiring.

In this um, uh, release, uh, you know, 1 of the reasons why we want probably higher everyone is because how we work is fundamentally changing. Um, we've said in the past that our Engineers are self-reporting that they are 1.5x.

George Arison: We now have teams of on the product team that are being, you know, small teams of 4 people are able to produce as much work in a week as teams of 10 or 20 people would have previously produced in the course of a month. That's all because of AI. The roles of engineer, product manager, designer, data scientist are all kind of collapsing in that now they are all doing all parts of that work, meaning a designer can code and function as a product manager or a product manager can code and also do design. So terraforming this business to be an AI-native business is really changing how we work and the amount of productivity that you're getting from the teams.

Speaker #5: But we do want to be judicious in how we hire. And who we bring on board. Because we want them to be much more AI-native, to fit in this new mode of working that we are that we are now evolving inside the company.

Speaker #5: I don't know, John, if you want to add anything to that.

Speaker #2: I would just say the 39 to 42% EBITDA margin is healthy. As we talked about in an earlier question, even as a CFO, if you told me I could grow revenue or I could grow margin, I would choose revenue right now.

Speaker #2: I think that margin optimization isn't the most important thing to George's point. The guidance and the plan that we had in place contemplated hiring and investing in the future.

Speaker #2: And that it was going to impact margin as a result, which it did. But also to his point, we've been able to increase that because the plan has changed as we've evolved.

George Arison: As a result, we, you know, given how lean we are, we don't have the same problems that a lot of other companies have. We do, and we still need more people in terms of hiring, we do wanna be judicious in how we hire and who we bring on board because we want them to be much more AI native to fit in this new mode of working that we are, that we are now evolving inside the company. I don't know, John, if you wanna add anything to that.

Speaker #2: And I do also echo the sentiment that we're investing in the business in other places, which would include investing in marketing efforts and spending more money there.

More productive than they were, you know, 9 months ago. Um, we now have teams of, um, uh, in in, on the product team that are being, you know, small teams of 4 people are able to produce as much work in a week as teams of 10 or 20 people would have previously produced, uh, in the course of a month. Uh, and that's all because of AI, the roles of engineer product manager, designer data scientist, our kind of collapsing, uh, in that that now, they all all doing all parts of that work. Meaning designer can code and function as a product manager or product manager, and code and, um, also do design and so be terraforming. This business to be an AI, native business is really changing how we work and the amount of, um, productivity that you're getting from the teams. And, and as a result we, you know, given how lean we are, we don't have the same problems that a lot of other companies have, um, but we do, uh, and we still need more people in terms of, um, hiring but we do want to

Speaker #2: And you see us doing more I think culturally relevant events, like the White House Correspondents' Dinner or partnering with Madonna on her album launch.

Be judicious in how we hire and and who we bring on board because we want them to be much more AI native to fit in this new mode of working that we are, um, that we are now evolving in inside the company.

John North: I would just say, you know, the 39% to 42% EBITDA margin is healthy. As we talked about on an earlier question, even as a CFO, if you told me I could grow revenue or I could grow margin, I would choose revenue right now. I think that margin optimization isn't the most important thing. To George's point, the guidance and the plan that we had in place contemplated hiring and investing in the future, and that it was gonna impact margin as a result, which it, you know, which it did. Also to his point, you know, we've been able to increase that because the plan has changed as we've evolved. I do also echo the sentiment that we're investing in the business in other places, which would include, like, investing in marketing efforts and spending more money there.

Speaker #2: And those are things we're doing that are marketing investments outside of attracting users to the app. They're really about improving our cultural relevance and what we bring to the community and to your user base overall.

I know John if you want to add anything to that, I would just say, you know, the 39 to 42% Evita margin is healthy. Um, as we talked about on an earlier question,

Speaker #2: And we've been working our way through that, testing those things. And then I think as we've achieved success in some of these events and these touch points that become these cultural flashes, we have more confidence to invest some more money in marketing.

Speaker #2: Because it's working. And so those are the kind of things we're thinking about and balancing. And certainly, there is a case to be made to just optimize for margin all the time.

Even as a CFO, if you told me I could grow revenue or I could grow a margin, I would choose Revenue right now. I think that margin optimization isn't the most important thing to George's point. The guidance and the plan that we had in place, contemplated hiring and investing in the future and that it was going to impact margin as a result, which is, you know, which it did. But also to his point

Speaker #2: But that really doesn't give us the trajectory to execute on the vision that George has laid out to really continue to round out the app and many different ways.

John North: You see us doing more, I think, culturally relevant events like the White House Correspondents' Dinner or partnering with Madonna on her album launch. You know, those are things we're doing that are marketing investments outside of attracting users to the app. They're really about improving our cultural relevance and what we bring to the community and the user base overall. We've, you know, been working our way through that, testing those things. I think as we've achieved success in some of these events and these touch points that become these cultural flashes, we have more confidence to invest some more money in marketing because it's working. Those are the kind of things we're thinking about and balancing.

Speaker #2: And to expand the number of modalities in which we can reach revenue and reach users.

Speaker #1: Great. Thank you.

You know, we've been able to increase that because the plan has changed as we've evolved. And I do also Echo the sentiment that we're investing in the business and other places, which would include like, investing in marketing efforts and spending more money there and you see us doing more, I think culturally relevant events, like the White House Correspondents dinner or partnering with Madonna on or album launch. And, you know, those are things. We're doing that are marketing, Investments, outside of attracting users to the app, they're really about improving our cultural relevance and what we bring to the community and their user base overall. And we've, you know, been working our way through that testing those things and then I think as we've achieved success

John North: You know, certainly there's a case to be made to just optimize for margin all the time, but that really doesn't give us the trajectory to execute on the vision that George has laid out to really continue to round out the app in many different ways, and to expand the number of modalities in which we can reach revenue and reach users.

In some of these events and these and these touch points that become these cultural flashes. Uh, we have more confidence to invest some more money in marketing because it's working. And so those are the kind of things we're thinking about in balancing. And, you know, certainly there's a case to be made to just optimize for margin all the time. But that really doesn't give us the trajectory to execute on the vision that George is laid out to really continue to round out the app in many different ways. Um and to expand the number of modalities in which we can reach revenue and reach users.

Logan Whalley: Great. Thank you.

Operator: That concludes today's call. Thank you for joining. You may now disconnect.

Great. Thank you includes.

That concludes today's call, thank you for joining you may now. Disconnect