Q1 2026 UWM Holdings Corp Earnings Call

May 6, 2026

Speaker #1: Porter. Hopefully you guys like it. We'll love to get feedback on it. this probably fits my style more, and hopefully for you guys. I'd love to be able to see you guys too.

Speaker #1: I don't think we set it up that way this time. Maybe next time, but, appreciate everyone being here today. Got a bunch of questions.

Speaker #1: so I'm gonna go through and go through them. I, I, I know last quarter we didn't do Q&A, and I know people missed that, so I'm, I'm happy.

Speaker #1: And hopefully this is valuable to you guys in any way possible about the industry, about UWM, and, I got a whole variety of types of questions.

Speaker #1: I'm gonna try not to duplicate and try to put some of them together, but I'll go through and, you know, maybe read off, the person's name, read the question, and go through it.

Speaker #1: If anyone has any follow-up questions, I, I know I can't take them live this way, but, obviously our investor relations team, Blake and everybody else, would, will be able to handle your questions and help you with anything you need.

Speaker #1: So, let's get started. and we'll jump into it right now. First question, I got Doug Harter from BTIG. what is the status of bringing servicing in-house?

Speaker #1: What is the latest timeline, transitioning all servicing to our own platform? So first, status of bringing servicing in-house. is the video on? It's working?

Speaker #2: It's on. The video is off, but we can hear you. They can hear you. Yeah.

Speaker #1: Okay. Sorry if you can't see my, I look good today. Hopefully everyone will see the video. My IT people will fix this. so anyways, I'll answer the question without the video for this first one.

Speaker #1: But anyways, status of bringing servicing in-house. it's going fantastic. So we feel really great about where servicing is right now and how it's going.

Speaker #1: we have, you know, we have less than 100,000 loans on, but all new originations are going on, and then we've moved a bunch of loans over from Senlar already.

Mat Ishbia: I'll answer your question without the video for this first one. Anyways, status of bringing servicing in-house. It's going fantastic. We feel really great about where servicing is right now and how it's going. We have, you know, we have less than 100,000 loans on, but all new originations are going on, and then we've moved a bunch of loans over from Cenlar already. We feel really good about that. The process will be this year. Over the whole year, we'll bring all of our loans in-house from. There'll be no sub-servicers by the end of this year, and UWM will handle it all. Now, it's going really great. You know, our technology process is going great.

Speaker #1: so we feel really good about that. The process will be this year. Over the whole year, we'll bring all of our loans in-house, from, so there'll be no subservicers, by the end of this year, and UW will handle it all.

Speaker #1: Now, it's going really great. You know, our, our technology process is going great. We partnered with, Black Knight, and then we partnered with Built, and we've also built a bunch of stuff ourselves.

Speaker #1: So we feel really good about where that's all going. And how it's been going in our client service has been excellent. The all the metrics that people look at are fantastic.

Speaker #1: So we feel really good about that. across the board. So, servicing in-house is great. The transition timeline, that's this year. Hopefully that answers your question, Doug.

Mat Ishbia: We partnered with Black Knight. We partnered with Bilt. We've also built a bunch of stuff ourselves, so we feel really good about where that's all going and how it's been going. Our client service has been excellent. All the metrics that people look at are fantastic, so we feel really good about that across the board. Servicing in-house is great. The transition timeline, that's this year. Hopefully, that answers your question, Doug. I know there's some other servicing questions. I'm sure I'll get to them as we go through it. All right. The next one. Ryan Nash, Goldman Sachs. What are your thoughts on future gain on sale margins? What does competitive landscape look like in a heightened rate environment? Obviously, rates went up in March, and they've gone up even more in April.

Speaker #1: I know there's some other servicing questions. I'm sure I'll get to them as we go through it. All right. The next one. Ryan Nash, Goldman Sachs, what are your thoughts on future gain on sale margins?

Speaker #1: What does competitive landscape look like in a heightened rate environment? So obviously rates went up. in, in March, and they've gone up even more.

Speaker #1: In, April and, now you guys can see me sad. I told you I had a good blue suit on today. but, margins went up.

Speaker #1: I mean, excuse me. rates have went up in, in, in March, from February, I think the 10-year finished at 3.95. And so seeing rates go up, how does that impact competitive landscape and gain on sale margins?

Speaker #1: So what you'll see is, you know, we're in a really great position from a from a perspective of, of margin and competitive position. I feel like w the competitive landscape is very competitive right now.

Mat Ishbia: Now you guys can see me. I told you I had a good blue suit on today. Margins went up I mean, excuse me, rates went up in March from February. I think the 10-year finished at 3.95. Seeing rates go up, how does that impact competitive landscape and gain on sale margins? What you'll see is, you know, we're in a really great position from a perspective of margin and competitive position. I feel like the competitive landscape is very competitive right now, and heightened rate environment means obviously purchases more than refi. However, you look at our Q1, we did a heck of a job on the refinance side.

Speaker #1: And heightened rate environment means, obviously, purchases more than refis. However, you looked at our first quarter, we did a heck of a job on the refinance side.

Speaker #1: And so, I guess my answer to you on this, Ryan, will be that, you know, gain on sale margins, I kinda see this this range that they're in right now.

Speaker #1: being the right range. And I think that it's gonna continue. to be in these levels right now and not significantly higher. Not significantly lower.

Speaker #1: and I actually think there's upside in the margins, based on, you know, our margins were pretty strong in the first quarter. I expect it to be in tho in those ranges again in the second quarter, but also if rates come down and you could see margins increase.

Mat Ishbia: I guess my answer to you on this, Ryan, will be that, you know, gain on sale margins, I kind of see this range that they're in right now, being the right range. I think that it's gonna continue to be in these levels right now and not significantly higher, not significantly lower. I actually think there's upside in the margins based on, you know, our margins were pretty strong in Q1. I expect it to be in those ranges again in Q2. Also, if rates come down, you could see margins increase. The competitive landscape, it is very competitive out there right now. We obviously had a great Q1. You guys saw the numbers and see what we did. Q1 is usually the slowest quarter.

Speaker #1: And so the competitive landscape, it is very competitive out there right now. we obviously had a great first quarter. You guys saw the numbers and see what we did.

Speaker #1: and first quarter's usually the slowest quarter. now, obviously, rates going up, it changes the war going on. There's a lot of uncertainty, which creates, issues, obviously, in the rate environment.

Speaker #1: But we feel really good about where it's at right now. Are you, Ryan Nash also asked thoughts on the Knicks winning at all. So, obviously you must be a New York Knicks fan.

But margin went up, excuse me. Uh, rates went up in in in March um, from February, I think the 10 year finished at 395 and so seeing rates go up, how does that impact competitive landscape and gain on sale margin? So what you'll see is, you know, we're in a really great position from a, from a perspective of of margin and competitive position. I feel like, uh, the competitive landscape is very competitive right now. And heightened rate, environment means obviously purchases more than refi. However, you look at our first quarter, we did a heck of a job on the refinance side and so um, I guess my answer to you on this. Ryan will be that, you know, gain on sale margins. I kind of see this this range that they're in right now um being the right range and I think that it's going to continue um to be in these levels right now and not significantly higher, not significantly lower. Um and I actually think there's upside in the margins. Based on you know our margins were pretty strong in the first quarter. I expected to be um in those in those ranges again in the second quarter but also for

Speaker #1: they have a very, very good team. We obviously just lost, to Oklahoma City, who's an amazing team too. So it'll be interesting. The East is, is open.

Mat Ishbia: Now obviously rate's going up. It changes. The war going on. There's a lot of uncertainty, which creates issues obviously in the rate environment, we feel really good about where it's at right now. Ryan Nash also asked thoughts on the Knicks winning it all. Obviously he must be a New York Knicks fan. They have a very, very good team. We obviously just lost to Oklahoma City, who's an amazing team too. It'll be interesting. The East is open. The Knicks have a real good chance. I'm not really cheering for anybody. I'm just watching and learning. Good luck to your Knicks. Let's go. Next question. Mark DeVries from Deutsche Bank.

Speaker #1: The Knicks have a real good chance. I'm not really cheering for anybody. I'm just, watching and learning. But, good luck to your Knicks. let's go.

Rates come down and you could see margins increase. And so the competitive landscape it is very competitive out there right now. Um we obviously had a great first quarter you guys saw the numbers and see what we did. Um and first quarter is usually the slowest quarter. Um, now I was the rates going up, it changes the war going on. There's a lot of uncertainty which creates, um issues, obviously, in the rate environment. But we feel really good about where it's at right now.

Speaker #1: Next question. Mark DeVries, from Deutsche Bank. what's the strategic value you see in two or two harbors? And what updates can you share of us regarding its progress or impact?

Speaker #1: And so, yeah, the two harbors things out there right now, it's interesting. You know, when we originally went to acquire the company, they have something that's really great.

You uh, Ryan Nash also asked thoughts on the Knicks winning at all so uh, obviously you must be in New York Knicks fan. Uh, they have a very, very good team. We obviously just lost uh, to Oklahoma City. Who's an amazing team too? So it'll be interesting. The East is, is open the next have a real good chance. I'm not really cheering for anybody. I'm just, uh, watching and learning but, uh, uh, good luck to your Nicks, um,

Speaker #1: They have a, a pristine servicing book, a great servicing book. when we bought the company, or originally agreed on the deal before all the work was done, we thought there'd be a lot of synergies also.

Mat Ishbia: What's the strategic value you see in Two Harbors, and what updates can you share of us regarding its progress or impact? Yeah, the Two Harbors thing's out there right now. It's interesting, you know. When we originally went to acquire the company, they have something that's really great. They have a pristine servicing book, a great servicing book. When we bought the company or originally agreed on the deal, before all the work was done, we thought there'd be a lot of synergies also. They had capital markets expertise, maybe some finance expertise, their servicing platform maybe we could learn from. You know, as we went through the due diligence process, we learned that there was a really great servicing book, and we still like that servicing book.

Let's go. Next question. Mark deree um,

From Deutsche Bank. Um,

Speaker #1: they had capital markets expertise, maybe some finance expertise. Their servicing platform, maybe you could learn from, you know, as we went through the due diligence process, we learned that there was a really great servicing book.

what's the streets in Egypt value? You see in 2 2 harbors? And what updates? Can you share of us? Regarding its progress or impact? And so yeah, the 2 Harvest things out there right now.

Speaker #1: And, and we still like that servicing book. We originally put an offer out there. And so where that stands now is, like, we don't see as much value in their management team.

Speaker #1: I think their team members there, when we met some of their, their people are very good, but their leadership team, we were not as impressed with.

Speaker #1: And so what's happened since then is they've went out and tried to get another bid, and they did, whether it was appropriate or not.

Speaker #1: We can discuss that at a later point. But what's happened is, if they would've just engaged with us, we would we always plan on paying $12.

Um, it's interesting. You know, when we originally went to acquire the company, um, they have something that's really great. They have a, a pristine servicing book, a great servicing book, um, when we bought the company or originally agreed on the deal before all the work was done, we thought there'd be a lot of synergies also. Um, they had Capital markets expertise, maybe some Finance expertise, they're servicing platform. Maybe you can learn from, you know, as we went through the due diligence process, we learned that

Mat Ishbia: We originally put an offer out there, where that stands now is we don't see as much value in their management team. I think their team members there, when we met some of their people are very good, but their leadership team we were not as impressed with. What's happened since then is they've went out and tried to get another bid, and they did. Whether it was appropriate or not, we can discuss that at a later point. What's happened is if they would've just engaged with us, we always planned on paying $12. Quite honestly, based on where the stock price was going down, I'd rather pay it in cash than in stock because I feel like I'm giving my stock away at a really low price. They never engaged.

Speaker #1: And quite honestly, based on where the stock price went down, I'd rather pay it in cash than in stock because I feel like I'm giving my stock away at a really low price.

Speaker #1: And so the they never engaged. They just went out to another offer. We made another offer. They just basically ignored it. Now they've we've made another one and said, "Okay.

Speaker #1: We'll go to $12." What we originally planned on paying, which I think is maybe 11.95, but you can do the math. based on when the stock was at 5, 11, or 5.15, the day we cut the deal, I think.

A really great service in book and, uh, and we still like that servicing book. We originally put an offer out there. And so we're that stands now is like, we don't see as much value in their management team. I think their team members there when we met some of their, their people are very good, but their leadership team, we were not as impressed with. And so, what's happened since then is they've went out and tried to get another bid. Uh, and they did, uh, whether it was appropriate or not, we can discuss that at a later point. But what's happen,

Happened is.

Speaker #1: and so we still feel really good about that deal. I feel like they're it's very clear that their management team and their board is, which is at its own issues in the past with their lawsuits and stuff.

Mat Ishbia: They just went out to another offer. We made another offer. They just basically ignored it. Now we've made another one and said, Okay, we'll go to $12, what we originally planned on paying, which I think is maybe $11.95, but you can do the math, based on when the stock was at $5.11 or $5.15 the day we cut the deal, I think. We still feel really good about that deal. I feel like it's very clear that their management team and their board is, which has had its own issues in the past with their lawsuits and stuff, is maybe playing some games and doing things because they realize that we don't see any value for them specifically. It's interesting.

Speaker #1: is maybe playing some games, doing things, 'cause they realize that we don't see any value for them specifically. And so it's interesting. You know, th-they have really great shareholders, which we are excited to bring on to UWM.

Speaker #1: but their board and their management team doesn't have any value to us. So now they're trying to do anything they can to potentially go with someone else so that they have jobs and sustainability.

Speaker #1: And so I think it will play out. We'll see how it shakes out for us. That's the strategic value, is their MSR book. their shareholders have some value because, we think that we've got a chance to know a little of them during that process and feel like they got some really good shareholders.

Mat Ishbia: You know, they have really great shareholders, which we are excited to bring on to UWM. Their board and their management team doesn't have any value to us, so now they're trying to do anything they can to potentially go with someone else so that they have jobs and sustainability. I think it'll play out. We'll see how it shakes out. For us, that's the strategic value is their MSR book. Their shareholders have some value because we think that we've got a chance to know a little of them during that process and feel like they got some really good shareholders, and we'd love them to be UWMC shareholders. Whether they take cash or stock, it does not matter to me. We feel really good about that.

Speaker #1: And we'd love them to be UWMC shareholders, whether they take cash or stock, it does not matter to me. we feel really good about that.

Speaker #1: And for the shareholders of two harbors, they obviously would prefer taking $12 in cash or UWM share than taking $11.30 in cash. So that's obviously gonna play out that way.

Speaker #1: you know, it's really surprising to see how it is. But we'll see how it goes. And I feel good about that. And we feel good about the strategic value.

Speaker #1: but it's very clear to us that it's it's MSR book as a shareholders and there's f there's n there's not we're not we don't have any value for their leadership team, which is obviously not what they like to hear.

Mat Ishbia: For the shareholders at Two Harbors, they obviously would prefer taking $12 in cash or UWM shares than taking $11.30 in cash. That's obviously gonna play out that way. You know, it's really surprising to see how it is. We'll see how it goes, and I feel good about that, and we feel good about the strategic value. It's very clear to us that it's the MSR book, it's the shareholders, and we don't have any value for their leadership team, which is obviously not what they like to hear. All right. Mikhail Goberman. Sorry if I don't pronounce everyone's name perfectly. From Citizens Bank.

Speaker #1: all right. Mikhail Goberman. Sorry if I don't pronounce everyone's name perfectly. From Citizens Bank. origin how do you foresee the balance between origination income and service income evolving, especially given the post-war reversal of rates?

And stuff um is maybe playing some games and doing things because they realize that we don't see any value for them specifically. And so it's interesting, you know, they have really great shareholders which we are excited to bring on to UWM, um but their board and their management team doesn't have any value to us. So now they're trying to do anything. They can to potentially go with someone else so that they have jobs and sustainability. And so, I think it will play out. We'll see how it shakes out for us. That's the Strategic value is their MSR book. Um, their shareholders, have some value because, uh, we think that we've got a chance to know, a little of them during that process and feel like they got some really good shareholders and we'd love them to be uwmc shareholders. Whether they take cash or stock, it does not matter to me. Um, we feel really good about that and for the shareholders at 2 Harbors, they obviously would prefer taking 12 dollars in cash or UWM share than taking $11.30 cents in cash. So that's obviously going to play out that way. Um, you know, it's really surprising to see how it is, but we'll see how it goes and I feel good about that and we feel good about the Strategic value. Um, but it's very clear to us that

Speaker #1: Seen since end of February. so, you know, listen. We're an origination company. We're the biggest and best originator in the country. We feel great about where we are in origination.

It's it's MSR book. It's a shareholders. And there's there's there's not, we're not. We don't have any value for their leadership team, which is obviously not what they like to hear.

um,

All right.

Speaker #1: You saw an amazing first quarter. W-we've been the number one originator for four straight years, and we're continuing to build a number one wholesale lender for 11 straight years.

Mat Ishbia: How do you foresee the balance between origination income and servicing income evolving, especially given the post-war reversal of rates seen since end of February? You know, listen, we're an origination company. We're the biggest and best originator in the country. We feel great about where we are in origination. You saw an amazing Q1. We've been the number one originator for four straight years, and we're continuing to build a number one wholesale lender for 11 straight years. Origination is our game. Now, as I bring in servicing in-house, we're gonna have more servicing, and we're gonna continue to retain the servicing. Now, are we still opportunistic? If someone gives me a bid that we believe is more than what the intrinsic value is, I'll sell the servicing.

Speaker #1: So origination is our game. Now, as I'm bringing servicing house, we're gonna have more servicing. and we're gonna continue to retain the servicing. Now, are we still opportunistic?

Speaker #1: If someone gives me a bid that's we believe is more than what the intrinsic value is, I'll sell the servicing. Like, I have those options.

Speaker #1: and now with the lower cost of servicing by bringing in-house and the better level of service, which will help retention, we feel like we got the best of all of it.

Speaker #1: So, how do I see it all balancing? Like, we'll see with the income levels, origination versus servicing. But origination's still our game. We're gonna continue to build out the servicing book.

Speaker #1: but I'm always opportunistic, and people call us all the time 'cause you know, even when I just talked about two harbors, some of the servicing book that they have, I called it a pristine servicing book.

Mat Ishbia: Like I have those options, now with the lower cost of servicing by bringing in-house and the better level of service, which will help retention, we feel like we got the best of all of it. How do I see it all balancing? Like, we'll see what the income levels, origination versus servicing. Origination's still our game. We're gonna continue to build out the servicing book. I'm always opportunistic, and people call us all the time 'cause, you know, even when I just talked about Two Harbors, some of the servicing book that they have, I call it a pristine servicing book. You know, a lot of that happens to be our old servicing book that we sold them. We feel good about the paper we originate every day and servicing the loans.

Muyl goberman. Sorry, if I don't pronounce. Everyone's name properly from Citizens Bank. Um, how do you foresee the balance between origination income and service income evolving, especially, given the post-war reversal rates seen since end of February. Um, so you know, listen, we're an origination, we're the biggest and best originator in the country. We feel great about where we are in relation, you saw an amazing first quarter. We've been the number 1 originator for 4, straight years in or continue to build number 1. Wholesale enter for 11 Street years. So origination is our game now as I'm bringing servicing house, we're going to have more servicing. Um and we're going to continue to retain the services now. Are we still opportunistic? If someone gives me a bid that's we believe is more than what the intrinsic value is.

Speaker #1: You know, a lot of that happens to be our old servicing book that we sold them. And so we feel good about, the paper we originate every day and servicing the loans.

Speaker #1: But if someone wants to come offer us a great opportunistic price, we will always look at that. Thank you for the question. Jason Stewart.

Speaker #1: let's see. Jason Stewart for Compass Point. Let me read through, there's an increased number of high was there an increased number of high-producing brokers affiliated with UWM during the quarter supporting wholesale channel growth?

Mat Ishbia: If someone wants to come offer us a great opportunistic price, we will always look at that. Thank you for the question. Jason Stewart. Let's see. Jason Stewart for Compass Point. Let me read through. Was there an increased number of high producing brokers affiliated with UWM during the quarter supporting wholesale channel growth? Good question, Jason. You know, high producing broker shops affiliated with UWM, I always say the numbers, it's roughly this, there's 12,000, 12,500 brokers that work with UWM, and maybe there's 400 or 500 that are not all in with UWM. There's not that many high producing shops to bring over to UWM. They're affiliated with UWM. Almost everyone in the market works with UWM.

Speaker #1: And so good question, Jason. you know, high-producing broker shops affiliated with UWM, I, I always say the numbers, and I'm and it's roughly this.

I'll sell the servicing. Like, I have those options. Um, and now, with the lower cost of servicing, by bringing in house and the better level of service, which will help retention. We feel like we got the best of all of it. So, um, how do I see it all balancing? Like, we'll see you with the income levels. Um, uh, origination versus servicing, but origination still our game. We're going to continue to build out the servicing book. Um, but I'm always opportunistic and people call us all the time because, you know, even when I just talked about 2 hours, some of the servicing book that they have, I called it a pristine service book. You know, a lot of that happens to be our old servicing book that we sold them. And so we feel good about um, the paper, we originated every day and servicing the loans, but if someone wants to come off for us, a great opportunity to price, we will always look at that.

Thank you for the question. Um,

Speaker #1: But there's 12,000 and 12,000, 500 brokers that work with UWM. And then maybe there's 4 or 500 that are not all in with UWM.

Speaker #1: So it's not that many high-producing shops to bring over to UWM. They're affiliated with UWM. Almost everyone in the market works with UWM. That's why we have almost 50% market share.

Speaker #1: I think it's 44.7 or 44.8 market share. For the year last year, of the broker channel. And so but our big focus is grow the channel, help brokers do more, help more originators realize that brokers are the place to go, whether they join a broker shop or start their own.

Jason Stewart. Um, let's see. Jason Stewart for Compass Point. Let me read through. Uh, there's an increased number of high was there an increased number of high producing Brokers affiliated with UWM during the quarter supporting wholesale Channel growth? And so good question, Jason. Um, you know

Speaker #1: And that's been a really big focus as the broker channel grows. UWM will grow. Even if our market share would happen to go down.

Mat Ishbia: That's why we have almost 50% market share. I think it's 44.7 or 44.8 market share for the year, last year, of the broker channel. Our big focus is grow the channel, help brokers do more, help more originators realize that broker's the place to go, whether they join a broker shop or start their own. That's been a really big focus. As the broker channel grows, UWM will grow, even if our market share would happen to go down. I feel great about growing the broker channel. Then are brokers coming over to join UWM? Yes, they are. Every single day, people see the value of what UWM does.

Speaker #1: And so I feel great about growing the broker channel. And then our brokers coming over to join UWM, yes, they are. Every single day, people see the value of what UWM does.

Speaker #1: and I got some actually examples that maybe will come up, that I can share 'cause I've been talking about some things recently. you know, with some new ideas that have happened.

Speaker #1: Now, separately from that, you know, the, the whole all-in thing with, brokers, from years ago, you know, one of the biggest adversaries of UWM was a guy named Mike Fawaz at Rocket.

Speaker #1: He was saying a bunch of things negative about UWM and about what we do and how UWM wasn't best for brokers. You know, recently, that man left his company at Rocket and started a broker shop and called me.

Mat Ishbia: I got some actually examples that maybe will come up that I can share because I've been talking about some things recently, you know, with some new ideas that have happened. Now, separately from that, you know, the whole all-in thing with brokers from years ago, you know, one of the biggest adversaries of UWM was a guy named Mike Fawaz at Rocket, who was saying a bunch of things negative about UWM and about what we do and how UWM wasn't best for brokers. You know, recently that man left his company at Rocket and started a broker shop and called me, and now he's working with UWM. The biggest anti-UWM, I think he called it the Bully Shield. He came up with some stuff, whichever. I've got to know him now, and I like the guy.

Speaker #1: And now he's working with UWM. And so the biggest anti-UWM, I think he called it the bully shield. He came up with some stuff, whichever I've got to know him now.

High producing broker shops affiliated with ewm. I always say the numbers and I'm, it's roughly this, but there's 12,000 12,000, 500 Brokers that work with w and maybe there's 4 or 500 that are not all in with UWM. So, it's not that many high producing shops to bring over to WM. They're affiliated with WM almost everyone in the market works in the WM. That's why we have almost 50% market share. I think it's 44 4.7 or 44.8 market share for the year last year, um, of the broker channel. So but our big focus is to grow the channel help Brokers do more help. More Engineers realize that Brokers the place to go, whether they join a broker shop or Star throne. And that's been a really big Focus as the broker Channel. Grows UWM will grow even if our market share with happy to go down. And so I feel great about growing the broker Channel and then our Brokers coming over to join you WM. Yes, they are every single day. People see the value of what you WM does, um, and I got some extra examples that maybe will come up uh, that I can share because I'm going to talk about some things recently. Um, you know, with some new ideas that have happened now severely from that,

Speaker #1: And I, I like the guy. I always respected the guy 'cause he, he was in the weeds of the business. But he started a broker shop.

Speaker #1: And chose to work with UWM and not to work with Rocket. I think that sends enough message. Someone that knows every detail that Rocket's doing and says, "I, I he came and learned about UWM and joined, broker or started a broker shop and picked to work with UWM," I think sends the message that there'll be more and more big broker shops moving over to UWM.

Mat Ishbia: I always respected the guy because he was in the weeds of the business. He started a broker shop and chose to work with UWM and not to work with Rocket. I think that sends enough message. Someone that knows every detail that Rocket's doing and says he came and learned about UWM and joined a broker or started a broker shop and picked to work with UWM, I think sends the message that there'll be more and more big broker shops moving over to UWM. There aren't that many left out there that don't work with us, but that's an opportunity. The bigger thing is grow the broker channel and continue to grow. That's been very positive, and the broker channel is continuing to be very positive, and we're excited about the growth of the channel. All right.

Speaker #1: There aren't that many left out there that don't work with us. But that's an opportunity. But the bigger thing is grow the broker channel and continue to grow.

You know, the the whole all-in thing with uh Brokers. Um from years ago, you know, 1 of the biggest adversaries of UWM was a guy named Mike foaz at Rocket who was saying a bunch of things negative about UWM and about what we do and how W was and best for Brokers. You know, recently that man left his company at Rocket and started a broker shop and called me. And now he's working with UWM. And so the biggest anti-white, I think he called it, the bully Shield. He came up with some stuff whichever I've got to know him now and I I like the guy, I always respected the guy because he he was in the weeds of the business but he started a broker shop and

Speaker #1: And so that's been very positive in the broker channels continue to be very positive and we're excited about the growth of the channel. All right.

Speaker #1: I got let me I gotta I got a couple I'm gonna bundle these so I apologize. I'm not gonna name everyone's name. I got a couple questions on Mia.

Speaker #1: And the AI initiative. So let me just hit on that. and kinda combine these questions. Let me see if I'm kinda combining a couple people here and make sure I get it all here together.

Mat Ishbia: I got a couple. I'm gonna bundle these, so I apologize I'm not gonna name everyone's name. I got a couple questions on Mia and the AI initiative. Let me just hit on that and kind of combine these questions. Let me see if I'm kind of combining a couple people here and make sure I get it all here together. Okay. I'll kind of read a couple of these, and I'll talk generally about Mia, but got one person asked about Mia's text messaging capabilities and how has it been going, customer's response to Mia generally, lead time competitive. I discussed Mia over. Let me give you a Mia update. Mia has been fantastic. It's been almost a year.

Um, there aren't that many left out there that don't work with us but that's an opportunity. But the bigger thing is grow, the broker Channel and continue to grow. And so that's been very positive in the broker channels continue to be very positive and we're excited about the growth of the channel.

Speaker #1: okay. Let me so I'll kinda read a couple of these, and I'll talk generally about Mia. But got one person asked about Mia's text messaging capabilities and how has it been going.

all right, I got

Let me.

Speaker #1: customers' response to, to Mia generally, lead time, competitive like, discuss Mia over past so let me give you a, a Mia update. Mia has been fantastic.

I got a I got a couple. I'm gonna bundle these so I apologize. I'm not gonna name everyone's name. I got a couple questions on Mia and the AI initiative so let me just hit on that. Um,

Speaker #1: It's been almost a year. I rolled it out at UWM Live. Last year. And it's been amazing. I think the data and I'll get the exact numbers.

Speaker #1: I'll call it roughly I would say about 100,000 closings, but I think it's closer to like 80 to 85 thousand. But let's call it, you know, in that range of closings over the last year, have come from Mia.

And kind of combine these questions. Let me see if I'm kind of combining a couple people here and make sure I get it all here together. Um okay let me so I kind of read a couple of these and I'll talk generally about Mia but 1 person asked about Mia's text messaging capabilities and how has it been going uh, customers response to Mia generally lead time competitive like

Speaker #1: It's been fantastic. And so the Mia numbers and like 'cause I get the exact numbers, but it's been the last report I saw was, so strong with the Mia initiation of refinance opportunity.

Mat Ishbia: I rolled it out at UWM LIVE! last year, and it's been amazing. I think the data, and I'll get the exact numbers, I'll call it roughly, I would say about 100,000 closings, but I think it's closer to like 80,000, 85,000. Let's call it, you know, in that range of closings over the last year have come from Mia. It's been fantastic. The Mia numbers, and like I said, I can get the exact numbers, but it's been The last report I saw was so strong with the Mia initiation of refinance opportunity. If you look at our servicing book, people always ask me, Hey, you have 2% or 3% of the servicing book, but you guys did 12% or 13% of all refinances. Well, Mia's a big part of that.

Speaker #1: And so if you look at our servicing book, people always ask, ask me, "Hey, you have 2 or 3 percent of the servicing book, but you guys did 12 or 13 percent of all refinances." Well, Mia's a big part of that.

Speaker #1: Brokers do such a great job with the consumer upfront. Consumers wanna come back to the broker. The problem was brokers, did such a average to below-average job.

Speaker #1: I won't say poor job of following up with their past clients, that they would just be one and done. They do the purchase, and then they wouldn't talk to them again.

Speaker #1: Well, now with Mia, she's keeping the broker in front of the of the, of the past of the consumer. And so when the consumer goes to refinance, they work with the broker 'cause the brokers offer the better deal anyways.

Disgust me over, so let me give you a a Mia update. Um, Mia has been fantastic. It's been almost a year. I rolled it out at UWM live last year and it's been amazing. Um, I think the data and I'll get the exact numbers. I'll call it roughly. I would say about a 100,000 closings, but I think it's closer to like 80 855% and so the Mia numbers and like I get the exact numbers but it's been. The last report I saw was um so strong with the Mia initiation of refinance opportunity. And so if you look at our servicing but people always ask ask me, hey, you have 2 or 3% of the servicing books, but you guys did 12 or 13.

Mat Ishbia: Brokers do such a great job with the consumer up front. Consumers wanna come back to the broker. The problem was brokers did such an average to below average job, I won't say poor job, of following up with their past clients, that they would just be one and done. They do the purchase, and then they wouldn't talk to them again. Well, now with Mia, she's keeping the broker in front of the consumer. When the consumer goes to refinance, they work with the broker 'cause the broker's offered a better deal anyways. They just know who to call. Mia has been fantastic. Now, when she leaves voicemails, she does send a text message out, so that was an initiation that was different. It was just voicemails.

Speaker #1: It just they just didn't know who to call. And so, Mia has been fantastic. Now when she leaves voicemails, she does send a text message out.

Speaker #1: So that was an initiation that was different. It was just voicemails. She sent so she calls. And right now, we're seeing the data. I think I gave this data before Mia.

Speaker #1: About 40% of her calls get picked up, which was a bigger number than we expected. So 60% leave a voicemail. And now we send a text message also.

Speaker #1: And a lot of those call the broker back. Like, "Hey, was that AI or was that real? Was that spam?" And then they're like, "Yeah, it was real.

Speaker #1: I can save you some money. Let's talk." And they do a loan. and then on 40% or 16,000 of a 40,000-call day, let's just use that as a day.

Mat Ishbia: She calls, and right now we're seeing the data, I think I gave this data before. Mia, about 40% of her calls get picked up, which was a bigger number than we expected. 60% leave a voicemail. Now we send a text message also. A lot of those call the broker back. Like, "Hey, was that AI, or was that real? Was that spam?" I'm like, "Yeah, it was real. I can save you some money. Let's talk," and they do a loan. Then on 40% or 16,000 of a 40,000 call day, let's just use that as a day, talk to Mia and have long conversations. I just played one today for the sales. They're like, they have 2-, 3-, 4-minute conversations.

14% of all refinances. Well, me as a big part of that Brokers do such a great job with the consumer upfront. Consumers want to come back to the broker. The problem was Brokers um did such a average to below average job. I won't say poor job of following up with their past clients that they would just be 1 and done. They do the purchase and then they wouldn't talk to them again. Well, now with Mia, she's keeping the broker in front of the, of the, of the past of the consumer. And so, when the consumer goes to refinance, they work with the broker because the broker is offered a better deal. Anyways. It just it just didn't know who to call and so uh, Mia has been fantastic. Now when she leaves voicemails she does send a text message out so that was an initiation that was different was just voicemails. She sent so she calls and right now, we're seeing the data. I think I gave this data before

Speaker #1: talk to Mia and have long conversations. I just played one today for the sales. They're like, "They have 2, 3, 4-minute conversations." Some of them know it's AI, and some of them don't know it's AI.

Mia about 40% of her calls, get picked up, which was a bigger number than we expected. So 60% leave a voicemail

Speaker #1: It's gotten that good. And so, then they we send a follow-up email to the bro-broker. "Hey, you have a call scheduled at 3:00 PM with Jenny, the, the borrower." And it's really been successful.

Speaker #1: And so I got more things coming out with Mia. I'm gonna continue to enhance it, make it better. The scale that we're doing it with our IIIT team has been phenomenal.

And now we send a text message also and a lot of those call the broker back like hey, was that AI? Or was that real? Was that spam? And then I'm like yeah, it was real. I could save you some money. Let's talk and they do Alone. Um, and then on 40% or 16,000 of a 40,000 call day, let's just use that as a day. Um,

Mat Ishbia: Some of them know it's AI, and some of them don't know it's AI. It's gotten that good. We send a follow-up email to the broker, "Hey, you have a call scheduled at 3:00PM with Jenny, the borrower," and it's really been successful. We got more things coming out with Mia. I'm gonna continue to enhance it and make it better. The scale that we're doing it with our IT team has been phenomenal. Like, there's no one in the country, I don't think there's anyone that I know of in any industry, let alone the mortgage business, doing it at this scale that we're doing, with Mia. It's been great. We feel really good about it, and it's gonna get better, you know, next week at UWM LIVE! and beyond.

Speaker #1: Like, there's no one in the in the country, I, I don't think there's anyone that I know of in any industry, let alone the mortgage business, doing it at this scale that we're doing, with Mia.

Speaker #1: So it's been great. We feel really good about it. and it's gonna get better, you know, next week at UWM Live and beyond. I got some big enhancements to continue to make it better and better and better.

Talk to Mia and have long conversations. I just played 1 today for the sales like they have 2 3 4 minute conversations, some of them know it's Ai and some of them don't know, it's AI, it's gotten that good and so uh then they we send a follow-up email to the Bro broker. Hey you have a call scheduled at 3 pm with Jenny the the borrower and it's really been successful. And so

Speaker #1: And it'll help brokers win. And so I think it's a big part of that. 2, 3 percent of the servicing book, 12, 13 percent of refis, what's that delta?

Speaker #1: Mia, brokers are doing a great job. Now we're doing a better job staying in front of them. And so it's been very, very successful.

Speaker #1: So hopefully that I apologize if I didn't answer anyone's specific Mia question, but that kind of combines a couple, here. All right. let's see.

Mat Ishbia: I got some big enhancements to continue to make it better and better and better, and it'll help brokers win. I think it's a big part of that 2-3% of servicing book, 12-13% of refis. What's that delta? Mia. Brokers are doing a great job. Now we're doing a better job staying in front of them, and so it's been very, very successful. Hopefully, that I apologize if I didn't answer anyone's specific Mia question, but that kind of combines a couple, here. All right, let's see. Kyle Joseph. "Could you review industry competitor trends, current broker share, and how you anticipate evolving in the current market?" I kind of answered that one, so I apologize, but let me kinda give it a little bit more, and then we'll keep moving.

Speaker #1: Kyle, Kyle Joseph, could you review industry competitive trends, current broker share, and how do you anticipate evolving in the current market? So I kind of answered that one, so I apologize.

Speaker #1: But let me kinda give it a little bit more and then we'll keep moving. current broker share, I think it's about 28%. The mortgage broker market is there, you know, brokers do about 28% of the market.

We got more things, coming out with Mia, I continued to Hants it, make about the scale that we're doing it with our, it team has been phenomenal. Like, There's No 1 in the in the country. I, I don't think there's anyone that I know of in any industry. Let alone the board is doing it at this scale that we're doing um with Mia. So it's been great. We feel really good about it um and it's going to get better you know next week at WM live and Beyond I got some big enhancements to continue to make it better and better and better and it will help Brokers win. And so I think it's a big part of that 23% of service book. 1213 of reap buys, what's that Delta? Mia Brokers are doing a great job. Now, we're doing a better job staying in front of them and so it's been very very successful so hopefully that I apologize. If I didn't answer anyone's specific media question but that kind of combines a couple um here.

all right, um,

Let's see, Kyle.

Speaker #1: And so, you know, just five years ago, I think in 2019 or '20, it was like 14 to 15 percent. So it's almost doubled.

Kyle Joseph. Um,

Speaker #1: and so it's growing. Will it double again? Well, we're working on it. We're hoping. So it's obviously going from 14 to 28, harder or easier than going from 28 to 56.

Mat Ishbia: Current broker share, I think it's about 28%. The mortgage broker market is the, you know, brokers do about 28% of the market. You know, just five years ago, I think in 2019 or 2020, it was like 14% to 15%. It's almost doubled. It's growing. Will it double again? Well, we're working on it. We're hoping so. It's obviously going from 14 to 28, harder or easier than going from 28 to 56. You know, our goal is to help brokers be the number-one overall channel. 50.1% is where we're gonna go with the broker channel, and we're on a path to doing that. With that being said, then our share has been very steady. You know, it's been over 40% for years now.

Could you review industry? Competitors trains, current broker share. And how do you anticipate evolving in the current market? So I kind of answered that 1 so I apologize, but let me kind of give it a little bit more and then we'll keep moving. Um,

Speaker #1: But, you know, our goal is to help brokers be the number one overall, channel. So 50.1% is where we're gonna go with the broker channel.

Speaker #1: And we're on a path to doing that. so with that being said, then our share has been very steady. You know, it's been over 40% for years now.

Speaker #1: I think 44.7 or 8, whatever I told you guys earlier, is roughly what it is. We'll call it between 40 and 45 consistently. for years now.

current broker share, I think it's about 28%. The mortgage broker Market is the, you know, broker do about 28% of the market. And so, you know, just 5 years ago, um, I think in 2019 or 20 it was like 14 to 15%. So it's almost doubled. Um, and so it's growing we'll double again. Well, we're working on it. We're hoping so, but it's obviously going from 14 to 28 harder or easier than going from 28 to 56. But, you know,

Speaker #1: never been done in the wholesale channel before. Never even close. No one's ever got close to those market share numbers. and it's because we provide value.

Speaker #1: So you understand, it's not because, you know, I'm the best-looking guy and people love me. Like, it's because we provide value. We help brokers grow.

Mat Ishbia: I think 44.7% or 44.8%, whatever I told you guys earlier, is roughly what it is. We'll call it between 40% to 45% consistently, for years now. Never been done in the wholesale channel before. Never even close. No one's ever got close to those market share numbers. It's because we provide value, so you understand. It's not because, you know, I'm the best-looking guy and people love me. Like, it's because we provide value. We help brokers grow. We help them look good to the real estate agents. We help them do more business, right? We help them make the process easier, and we help them be successful. We train them, we coach them, we give them cool tools, to help them win more loans. That's why we're the best, and why we're the biggest.

Speaker #1: We help them look good to the real estate agents. We help them do more business, right? We help them make the process easier. And we help them be successful.

Speaker #1: And so we train them. We coach them. We give them cool tools. to help them win more loans. And so that's why we're the best.

Speaker #1: and why we're the biggest. And we're gonna continue to be the best and the biggest in wholesale and overall. But the key is helping brokers win.

Speaker #1: And so as brokers win, UWM wins. And so the nice part is, like, being the largest lender in the country for four straight years, I only have a chance at 28 out of 100 loans.

Speaker #1: And so think about that. We're the biggest, and we only have a chance at 28 out of 100 loans. Every other lender, the number two, the number three, number four, all those guys, you know, they have they have access to 100 out of 100 loans.

Mat Ishbia: We're gonna continue to be the best and the biggest in wholesale and overall. The key is helping brokers win. As brokers win, UWM wins. The nice part is, like, being the largest lender in the country for 4 straight years. I only have a chance at 28 out of 100 loans. Think about that. We're the biggest, and we only have a chance at 20 out of 100 loans. Every other lender, the number two, the number three, number four, all those guys, you know, they have access to 100 out of 100 loans. They're competing for them. I'm not even having a chance at those 72. As that 72 out of 100 in the retail channel goes to 65 or 60 or 50, well, that's just growth for UWM.

Speaker #1: They're competing for them. So I might have been having a chance at those 72. So is that 72 out of 100 the retail channel goes to 65 or 60 or 50?

Speaker #1: Well, that's just growth for UWM. That's why we're so bullish on the UWM's growth, but also on the broker growth. We're gonna all win together.

So you understand, it's not because, you know, I'm the best looking guy and people love me. Like, it's because we provide value, we help Brokers grow. We help them look good to. The real estate agents. We help them do more business, right? We help them make the process easier and we help them be successful. And so we train them. We coach them. We give them Cool Tools. Um, to help them win more loans. And so that's why we're the best um, and why we're the biggest and we're going to continue to be the best in the biggest in wholesale and overall but the key is helping Brokers win. And so as Brokers win, you w, I'm wins. And so the nice part is like being the largest lender in the country for straight years.

Speaker #1: And so I think that answers your question, Kyle. you ha you have another one. I usually I'll come back to, but I guess I kind of answered that.

Speaker #1: What does UWM's current broker share? So I kinda covered that one. Thank you for the question. all right. I got a couple questions here.

Mat Ishbia: That's why we're so bullish on the UWM's growth, but also on the broker growth. We're gonna all win together. I think that answers your question, Kyle. You have another one that I'll come back to, but I guess I kind of answered that. "What is UWM's current per share?" I kinda covered that one. Thank you for the question. All right. I got a couple questions here. I think, Ryan, I got a couple ones here tied to. Yeah, I'm gonna kinda knock these out together. Expenses. You know, I got a couple questions on, you know, our expenses. You guys saw our expenses went down. The way I look at expenses in general is we've invested a lot. I've been talking about it for years.

Speaker #1: I think Ryan a co I got a couple ones here, tied to yeah, I'm gonna kinda kinda knock these out together. Expenses. So you know, I got a couple questions on, you know, our expenses.

Speaker #1: You guys saw our expenses went down. and the way I look at expenses, in general, is we invested a lot. I've been talking about it for years.

I only have a chance at 28 out of 100 loans, and so think about that. We're the biggest and we only have a chance at 20 100 100 loans. Every other lender, the number 2, the number 3, number 4, all those guys, you know, they have, they have access to 100 out of a 1002. So is that 72 out of 100, the retail Channel goes to 65 or 60 or 50. Well, that's just growth for WM, that's why we're so bullish on the WM growth, but also on the broker growth, we're going to all win together. And so I think that answers your question, Kyle, um, you have, you have another 1. I usually, I'll come back to, I guess I kind of answered that. What is your address, current Pro share? So I kind of covered that 1. Thank you for the question. Um,

all right, um,

I got a couple questions here.

Speaker #1: And now I'm starting to see you know, the harvesting or the success of those investments, right? And whether you wanna talk about TrackPlus or the investment in free credit reports to help brokers grow, like, I can go through a lot of these details.

I think, Ryan, I got a couple ones here tied to—

Yeah, I'm gonna kind of kind of knock these out together expenses. So,

Speaker #1: And so what we're gonna start seeing out is, like, more of a little leveling out of, expenses. as you saw, they went down. I don't you know, I, I think our investments are gonna start paying off now.

Mat Ishbia: Now I'm starting to see, you know, the harvesting or the success of those investments, right? Whether you wanna talk about Track+ or the investment in free credit reports to help brokers grow. Like, I can go through a lot of these details. What we're gonna start seeing out is, like, more of a little leveling out of expenses. As you saw, they went down. I don't, you know, I think our investments are gonna start paying off now. You're starting to see it already. I think you saw a little in Q1, as you know, we didn't have a great quarter by where I want us to be, but compared to the industry, we had a great quarter.

Speaker #1: And you're starting to see it already. I think you saw a little in the first quarter. It's, you know, we didn't have a great quarter by where I want us to be, but compared to the industry, we had a great quarter.

Speaker #1: I think we're up, you know, I think last, last year, first quarter was 32 billion, which was a great quarter. And this year, we did about 45.

Speaker #1: That's significant in our gain on sale. Was up. And volume is up. You know, year over year. And so seeing that and then our expenses are flat or down, right?

Speaker #1: And so we feel good about where we're at from an expenses perspective. Like I said, I think of them as investments. And I think they're paying off in a really, really positive way.

Mat Ishbia: I think we're up, you know. I think last year Q1 was $32 billion, which was a great quarter. This year, we did about $45 billion. That's significant. Our gain on sale was up, and volume is up, you know, year over year. Seeing that, and then our expenses are flat or down, right? We feel good about where we're at from an expenses perspective. Like I said, I think of them as investments, and I think they're paying off in a really, really positive way. I feel great about that. I mean, I'm trying to see, you know. Hopefully, I covered that comment and question enough with that. I think that covers it. Let's see. I got Mikel. You got another question here.

Speaker #1: So I feel great about that. and I think I mean, I'm trying to see you know, if I'm hopefully I covered that comment and question enough with that.

you know, I got a couple questions on, you know, our expenses. Are you guys saw our expenses went down? Um, and the way I look at expenses in general is we've invested a lot. I've been talking about it for years and now I'm starting to see, you know, the harvesting or the success of those Investments, right? And whether you want to talk about track Plus or the investment in free, credit reports to help Brokers grow. Like, I can go through a lot of these details. And so, what we're going to start seeing out is like more of a little leveling out of, um, expenses. Uh, as you saw, they went down. Um, I don't, you know, I, I think our investments are going to start paying off now and they're starting to see it already. I think you saw a little in the first quarter is, you know, we didn't have a great quarter by where I want us to be but compared to the industry, we had a great quarter, I think we're up, you know, I think last last year first quarter was 32 billion which is a great quarter this year we did about 45 that's significant in our gain on sale was up and volume is up you know year-over-year and so seeing that

Speaker #1: so I think that covers it. let's see. I got Mikhail, you got another question here. Let me hit this one 'cause, on what are your thoughts of the new VantageScore rating system for borrower credit?

And then our expenses are flat or down, right? And so we feel good about where we're at from an expensive perspective. Like I said, I think of them as Investments and I think they're paying off in a really, really positive way. So I feel great about that. Um, yeah. I think I mean, I'm trying to see

Speaker #1: So sorry, Mikhail. Goberman, I'm just using your question again. another question you have on a VantageScore. So let me give you thoughts on this.

You know, if I'm hoping I covered that.

Comment and question enough with that. Um,

Speaker #1: 'cause it's actually interesting. I've got a lot of talk. So kudos to the leadership of FHFA and about rolling out a new way. FICO scores and credit reports have gotten really expensive.

So I think that covers it. Um, let's see. Um,

Mat Ishbia: Let me hit this one 'cause on, "What are your thoughts on the new VantageScore rating system for borrower credit?" Sorry, Mikel, Goldman, I'm just using your question again. Another question you have on a VantageScore. Let me give you thoughts on this, 'cause it's actually interesting. I've got a lot of talk. Kudos to the leadership of FHFA about rolling out a new way. FICO scores and credit reports have got really expensive, and if you have a competitor in there, now you have options. Options usually create better outcomes, and that's why wholesale works, 'cause brokers have options, and they figure out what's best and people like us. Now, what's happened is FICO and VantageScore are both now on the top of their game to be the best they can be.

I got Mikel. You got another question here. Let me hit this 1 because um,

Speaker #1: And if you have a competitor in there, now you have options. And so options usually create better outcomes. And that's why wholesale works, 'cause brokers have options.

On what are your thoughts of the new Vantage score rating system for borrower credit? So,

Speaker #1: And they figure out what's best. And, and people like us now, what's happened is FICO and Vantage are both now on the top of their game to be the best they can be.

Speaker #1: And now with that being said, there's very few companies that were put on the pilot. we were one of them. I think I rolled out less than two weeks ago from FHFA director Bill Polti.

Speaker #1: and, the support of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. You know, four business days later, Wednesday of last week, we rolled it out. VantageScore. And so it's been an enormous enormous success.

Mat Ishbia: Now, with that being said, there's very few companies that were put on the pilot. We were one of them. I think it rolled out less than two weeks ago from FHFA Director Bill Pulte with the support of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, you know, four business days later, Wednesday of last week, we rolled out VantageScore. It's been an enormous success, and not for the reasons you might think. Not for, hey, you're saving $50 a credit report. That's possible too. What we're doing is we've got both FICO and VantageScore. We're making sure the borrowers get the best opportunity 'cause they have different models. Vantage looks at it a little differently. Maybe a little bit thinner credit.

Sorry muyl. Um goberman, I'm just using your question again. Uh, another question, you have an advantage score. So let me give you thoughts on this, um, because it's actually interesting. I've got a lot of talk. So kudos to the leadership of fhfa and about rolling out a new way, FICO scores, and credit reports, we've got really expensive and if you have a competitor in there, now you have options and so options, usually create better outcomes and that's why wholesale works because Brokers have options and they figure out what's best and and People Like Us. Now what's happening is FICO and Vantage are both now on the top of their game to be the best they can be. And now with that being said, um,

Speaker #1: And not for the reasons you might think. Not for, hey, you're saving $50 a credit report. That's possible too. But what we're doing is we're we've got both.

There's very few companies that were put on the pilot.

Um, we were 1 of them.

Speaker #1: FICO and VantageScore. And, we're making sure the borrowers get the best opportunity. 'Cause they have different models. So Vantage looks at it a little differently.

I think I rolled out less than 2 weeks ago from fhfa director, Bill Pi, um, and um, the support of Fannie Mae and Freddy Mack.

Speaker #1: We'll be a little bit thinner credit. They understand they can add rent and other things in there. So more people can qualify. Or maybe they qualify with, you know, have a little bit higher score.

Speaker #1: Now Vantage, you have to take a 20-base a 20-point haircut. So if the VantageScore is 744, that's equivalent of 724 on FICO. But on the FICO score was 719.

You know, four business days later, Wednesday of last week, we rolled without VantageScore, and so it's been an enormous, enormous success. And not for the reason you might think—not for, hey, you're saving $50 a credit report.

Speaker #1: Well, I just got that borrower a better deal. Lower LOPAs or a little better opportunity. And so that's a win for the consumers. And so this has been a massive thing in five business days.

Mat Ishbia: They understand they can add rent and other things in there, so more people can qualify, or maybe they qualify with, you know, have a little bit higher score. Now, Vantage, you have to take a 20-point haircut. If the Vantage score is 744, that's equivalent of 724 in FICO. If the FICO score was 719, well, I just got that borrower a better deal, lower LLPAs or a little better opportunity. That's a win for the consumers. This has been a massive thing in 5 business days. The amount of emails I've gotten on loans that we've helped brokers win, on consumers that have been so grateful and thankful that they can qualify for a home, or they got a better interest rate and lower fees, has been phenomenal.

Speaker #1: And so, the amount of emails I've gotten on loans that we've helped brokers win, on consumers that have been so grateful and thankful that they can qualify for a home or they got a better interest rate and lower fees, has been phenomenal.

Speaker #1: And so kudos to FHFA. Kudos to Fannie and Freddie getting out. We rolled it out with VA today, loans as well. And FHA will be soon.

Speaker #1: And I think the MI companies, the leaders at MI, companies like Essence and Enact, they're on it. And others were they're coming. And like, like, how do we do this?

Speaker #1: How do we make things better for consumers? And so Vantage, Score, and FICO. By the way, FICO's still great in so many ways. It's not one of the other.

Mat Ishbia: Kudos to FHFA, kudos to Fannie and Freddie getting out. We rolled it out with VA today, loans as well, and FHA will be soon. I think the MI companies, the leaders of MI, companies like Essent and Enact, they're on it, and others, they're coming, and like, how do we do this? How do we make things better for consumers? VantageScore and FICO. By the way, FICO is still great in so many ways. It's not one or the other. It's both are great. Now can we help consumers in a better way qualify for a mortgage? Can we have better credit profiles? I've been extremely happy with this and the rollout, and just to give you guys recognition of what we do and, you know, our IT team.

Speaker #1: It's both are great. And now can we help consumers in a better way qualify for a mortgage? Can we have better credit profiles? I've been extremely extremely happy with this.

Win for the consumers. And so, this has been a massive thing in 5 business days. And so, um, the amount of emails I've gotten on loans that we've helped Brokers win on consumers that have been so grateful and thankful that they can qualify for a home, or they got a better interest rate and lower fees has been phenomenal. And so kudos to fhfa kudos to F**** and Freddy getting out, we rolled it out with VA today.

Speaker #1: And the rollout and just to give you guys recognition of what we do. And I, you know, our IT team, like, to roll this thing out in four business days and have it work and flawlessly, you know, is obviously a different team than put together the Zoom earlier that wasn't getting my video on earlier.

Speaker #1: Just kidding for my guys behind me behind the film. But you get my point of, like, they did a heck of a job. They did a heck of a job of getting this thing done.

Loans as well. And FHA will be soon. And I think the me companies, the leaders of me, uh, companies like ascent and act, they're on it and others, were they're coming? And I like, how do we do this? How do we make things better for consumers? And so, Vantage, score. And FICO, by the way, FICO is still great in so many ways. It's not 1 of the other, it's both are great. And now, can we help consumers in a better way? Qualify for a mortgage. Can we have better credit profiles?

Speaker #1: And it's out and live. And we're seeing so much success of it on VantageScore. So congratulations to my IT team, to brokers that are understanding it, and to Fannie and Freddie who said, "Let's go.

Mat Ishbia: Like, to roll this thing out in four business days and have it work and flawlessly, you know, is obviously a different team than put together the Zoom earlier that wasn't getting my video on earlier. Just kidding for my guys behind the film. You get my point of, like, they did a heck of a job. They did a heck of a job of getting this thing done, and it's out and live, and we're seeing so much success of it on VantageScore. Congratulations to my IT team, to brokers that are understanding it, and to Fannie and Freddie who said, "Let's go. Let's do this," and FHA, of course, FHFA for leading. Hopefully that answers your question, but, you know, other people don't have it.

Speaker #1: Let's do this." And FHA, of course, FHFA for leading. So hopefully that answered your question. But, you know, other people don't have it. I think nobody in the country has it, by the way, besides UWM right now.

Speaker #1: 'Cause they can't implement it as quick as us. Maybe they'll have it out in May or June. Like, we're rolling with it. We're, we're saving loans, helping loans, giving better deals right now because of Vantage.

Speaker #1: All right. Let's see. I got a couple questions here. On let's put this. We'll do a built partnership question. there's a couple. Let me try to read a couple of them off and, try to answer.

Mat Ishbia: I think nobody in the country has it, by the way, besides UWM right now because they can't implement it as quick as us. Maybe they'll have it out in May or June. Like, we're rolling with it. We're saving loans, helping loans, giving better deals right now because of Vantage. All right. Let's see. Got a couple questions here. Let's put this. We'll do a Bilt partnership question. There's a couple. Let me try to read a couple of them off, and I'll try to answer. I'll talk about Bilt. You know, indication of Bilt card relationship, increased leads, like, your status partnership with Bilt, update, infrastructure is in place. Here's how I'll say about Bilt. Bilt, Ankur Jain, the CEO of Bilt, phenomenal CEO, doing great things.

I've been extremely extremely happy with this and the roll out and just to give you guys recognition of what we do and you know, our it team like to roll this thing out in 4 business days and have it, work and flawlessly. Uh, you know, is obviously a different team than put together the zoom earlier. That wasn't getting my video on earlier. Just kidding for my guys behind me behind the film. But you get my point of like they did a heck of a job. They did a heck, of a job at getting this thing done, and it's out and live and we're seeing so much success of it on Vantage scores. So congratulations to my it team to Brokers that are understanding it and to F****. And Freddy who said that, let's go, let's do this. And FHA, of course, fhfa for leading. So, hopefully that answered your question. But, you know, other people don't have it. I think nobody in the country has it, by the way.

Speaker #1: But I'll, I'll talk about built. But, you know, indication of built card relationship, increased leads. Like, your status partnership with built, update, infrastructure is in place.

By the way, besides UWM right now because they can't implement it as quick as us. Maybe they'll have it out in May or June like we're rolling with it. We're we're saving loans, helping loans giving better deals right now because of Vantage.

All right.

Speaker #1: So here, here's how we're I'll say about built. Built, Encore Jane, the CEO of built, phenomenal CEO, doing great things. They're, they're vision is ridiculously great.

Let's see. Um,

Got a couple questions here on.

Let's put this, we'll do a built partnership question. Um,

Speaker #1: So it's fantastic. UWM is servicing. So UWM is a servicer. We brought servicing in-house. We are controlling everything. What we did is we chose a platform on the front end that was able to provide rewards points to consumers, which has never been done.

Speaker #1: They don't have to use a credit card. They can use ACH to get per point. It's all it's never been done in our industry.

Mat Ishbia: Their vision is ridiculously great, so it's fantastic. UWM is servicing. UWM is a servicer. We brought servicing in-house. We are controlling everything. What we did is we chose a platform on the front end that was able to provide rewards points to consumers, which has never been done. They don't have to use a credit card. They can use ACH to get a reward point. It's never been done in our industry. Rewards points for making your mortgage on time. You know what? I mean, you guys are all consumers too. Everyone loves points. You can use points. Then it hooks their credit card in there, once again, and they get points.

Speaker #1: And so rewards points for making your mortgage on time. And you know what? I mean, you guys are all consumers too. Everyone loves points.

There's a couple. Let me try to read a couple of them off and I'm trying to answer, but I'll talk about. But you know in the case of Bill Carter relationship increased leads like um your status partnership with Bill update infrastructure is in place. So here, here's how we're I'll say about built Encore Jane, the CEO Bill phenomenal, CEO doing great things. They're, they're vision is

Speaker #1: You can use points. And then it hooks their credit card in there. Once again, and they get points if they get their American Express points.

Speaker #1: They also get points through built. And you can do this and earn points and use it for flights and other things that you wanna use it for.

Speaker #1: It's really, really cool. Now, beyond that, the servicing platform is really slick. Like, we built this with them. Obviously, 'cause they never had done this before on the front end for mortgage.

Speaker #1: And so it's really cool for consumers. It's a great platform up front. And the built partnership. And then on top of that, built has over 6 million consumers.

Mat Ishbia: If they get their American Express points, they also get points through Bilt, and you can do this and earn points and use it for flights and other things that you wanna use it for. It's really, really cool. Now, beyond that, the servicing platform is really slick. Like, we built this with them, obviously, because they've never done this before, on the front end for mortgage. It's really cool for consumers. It's a great platform up front. The Bilt partnership on top of that, Bilt has over 6 million consumers, and, you know, depending on the year, 8%, 10% of them go buy houses. Those are now curated leads. They're gonna wanna stay on the Bilt platform, and they're gonna work with a mortgage broker. That's a huge opportunity. We've already had that in pilot. There's some really cool things.

Speaker #1: And, you know, depending on the year, 8, 10% of them go buy houses. Those are now curated leads that they're gonna wanna stay on the built platform.

Speaker #1: And they're gonna work with a mortgage broker. That's a huge opportunity. We've already had that in pilot. And so there's some really cool things there's a concierge service that's really cool.

Ridiculously great. So it's fantastic. UWM is servicing. So UWM is a serer. We brought servicing in house. We are controlling everything. What we do is we chose a platform on the front end. That was able to provide rewards points to Consumers, which has never been done. They don't have to use a credit card. They can use ACA to get free play, it's all it's never been done in our industry and so rewards points for making your mortgage on time. And you know what I mean? You guys are all consumers to, everyone loves points, you can use points and then it hooks their credit card in there once again and they get points. If they get their American Express points, they also get points through built and you can do this and earn points and use it for flights and other things that you want to use it. For its really, really cool. Now beyond that,

Speaker #1: That gives our clients, our consumers, which are our brokers' consumers, our brokers' ' partners, an amazing platform to get things done and make their life easier.

Speaker #1: It's really a cool neighborhood experience. So it's, it's hard to explain to people. They don't understand it. I'm actually, Encore is gonna speak at, UWM Live next week.

Speaker #1: So I know a lot of you guys are gonna be at UWM Live. So hopefully you'll see him speak and you'll understand it a little bit better.

Mat Ishbia: There's a concierge service that's really cool that gives our clients, our consumers, which are our brokers' consumers, our brokers' partners, an amazing platform to get things done and make their life easier. It's really a cool neighborhood experience. It's hard to explain to people that don't understand it. Ankur is gonna speak at UWM Live next week, so I know a lot of you guys are gonna be at UWM Live, so hopefully you'll see him speak, and you'll understand it a little better. The vision's gonna be awesome. The key is UWM has servicing in-house. We've been the best originator in the country for a long time. Now we're gonna be the best servicer because we're focused on it. It's gonna help retention for our brokers. It's gonna make the consumer experience better. There's all these other ancillary benefits too.

Speaker #1: But the vision's gonna be awesome. But the key is UWM has servicing in-house. We've been the best originally in the country for a long time.

Speaker #1: Now we're gonna be the best servicer. 'Cause we're focused on it. It's gonna help retention for our brokers. It's gonna make consumer experience better.

Speaker #1: And there's all these other ancillary benefits too. And so it's been a great, great partnership. It's off. It's launched. It's rolling. It's fully active.

Speaker #1: and of course, getting better every day like we do with everything at UWM. but 'cause we don't have all 6, 700,000 clients, consumers on it.

Speaker #1: We only have the ones that are on it right now. And they're all moving on to it. And so I've shadowed the team. I spent time with our team, our service team.

Speaker #1: The servicing process has been really great. I know you guys have asked me in the past, "Why don't you do it?" And I've always said, you know, focus on originations, which I'm still doing.

The servicing platform is really slick. Like we built this with them obviously because they never done this before on the front end for mortgage. And so, it's really cool for consumers. It's a great platform up front, and the build partnership. And then on top of that, build has over 6 million consumers and, you know, depending on the year 8, 10% of them go buy houses. Those are now curated leads. They're going to want to stay in the build platform and they're going to work with a mortgage broker. That's a huge opportunity. We've already have that in Pilot so there's some really cool things. There's a concierge service, that's really cool. That gives our clients, um, our consumers which are Brokers consumers. Our Brokers Partners an amazing platform to get things done and make their life easier. It's really a cool neighborhood experience. So it's hard to explain to people, they don't understand it. I'm actually an encore is going to speak at uh, WM live next week, so I know a lot of you guys are going to be at w lives. Hope you'll see him speak and you'll understand it a little bit better, but the vision is going to be awesome, but the key is UWM has servicing in house. We've been the best originally in the country for a long time. Now we're going to be the best servicer because we're focused on it. It's going to help retention for our Brokers. It's going to make consumer experience.

Mat Ishbia: It's been a great partnership. It's off, it's launched, it's rolling, it's fully active, and of course, getting better every day like we do with everything at UWM. But because we don't have all 600,000 to 700,000 clients, consumers on it, we only have the ones that are on it right now, and they're all moving on to it. I've shadowed the team. I spent time with our team, our servicing team. The servicing process has been really great. I know you guys have asked me in the past, "Why don't you do it?" I've always said, you know, "Focus on originations," which I'm still doing. The cost expense will be great on the servicing, not outsourcing it anymore.

Speaker #1: But, the, the costs, expense will be great on the, on the servicing. Not, not outsourcing it anymore. But better than that, the retention and experience for the consumers and our brokers is gonna be even better.

Speaker #1: And that's really what we're focused on. And so we're excited about that. Hopefully that answered the built things. Let me just see. I got all these pages.

Speaker #1: Make sure maybe tie into it. all right. Well, here, here I got a couple. Let's see. So I got a couple. This is interesting.

Better, and there's all these other ancillary benefits too, and so it's been a great, great partnership. It's off, it's launched, it's rolling, it's fully active. Um, and of course, getting better every day, like we do with everything at UWM. Um, but because we don't have all 600,000 or 700,000 clients—consumers—on it, we only have the ones that are on it right now, and they're all moving on to it. And so, I've shadowed the team, I spent time with our team, our service team, the servicing process has been really great. I know you guys have asked me in the past, why don't you do it? And I've always said, you know,

Mat Ishbia: Better than that, the retention and experience for the consumers and our brokers is gonna be even better, and that's really what we're focused on, so we're excited about that. Hopefully, that answered the Bilt things. Let me just see. I got all these pages. Make sure anyone else had a Bilt question that could maybe tie into it. All right. Well, here I got a couple. Let's see. I got a couple. This is an interesting one. This might take a little bit of time, and it kinda covers, I'm trying to hit all of them together. On, what do you see in the business for the next 3 to 5 years?

Speaker #1: When I this might take a little bit of time. And it kind of covers I'll try to hit all of them. Together. On, what do you see in the business for the next three to five years?

Focus on organizations which I'm still doing. But uh, the the costs expense will be great, um, on the servicing. Not not Outsourcing it anymore, but better than that. The retention and experience for the consumers and our Brokers is going to be even better. And that's really what we're focused on. And so we're excited about that.

Hopefully that answered the built things. Let me just see. I got all these pages. Let me make sure if I, or anyone else, had a question that could maybe tie into it. Um,

Speaker #1: I got someone that says, "What's a 10-year horizon?" Someone says, "What's a five-year?" I got someone asking about, "How do I think expenses or volume will go over the next three years?" So I'm gonna kinda combine.

all right.

Well here, I got a couple.

Let's see.

Speaker #1: These and kinda give you my view. on our business. 'cause we've been spending a lot of time on it. Like, what does the next three to five years look like?

Speaker #1: And I look out I have three-year goals. But then we also have five-year goals and targets. So that's, I think, 2031. So if we were to say the next five years here's, like, high, high, high land, level or high-end thought, thought process on it is, you know, I think UWM over the, you know, five years from whatever you wanna call it, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, those five years we're expecting to do over 1.3 trillion dollars in mortgages.

So I got a couple it was interesting when I this might take a little bit of time and it kind of covers. I try to hit all of them together on

um,

Mat Ishbia: I got someone who says, What's a 10-year horizon? Someone says, What's a 5-year? I got someone asking about, how do I expect expenses or volume will go over the next 3 years? I'm gonna kinda combine these and kinda give you my view on our business, 'cause we've been spending a lot of time on it. Like, what does the next 3 to 5 years look like? I look out, I have 3-year goals, but then we also have 5-year goals and targets, so that's, I think, 2031.

Speaker #1: I believe we're gonna do 1.3 trillion dollars or more in that five-year window. So that's a big number. you know, overall. Now, there might be one year in there with 400 billion.

Mat Ishbia: If we were to say the next 5 years, here's like high level or high-end thought process on it is, you know, I think UWM over the, you know, 5 years from, whatever you wanna call it, 2027, 2028, 2029, 2030, 2031, those 5 years, we're expected to do over $1.3 trillion in mortgages. I believe we're gonna do $1.3 trillion or more in that 5-year window. That's a big number, you know, overall. Now, there might be one year in there with $400 billion. There might be one year in there with $150 to 200 billion, right?

Speaker #1: There might be one year in there with 150 to 200 billion. Right? But I believe that 1.3 trillion is that kind of that North Star over the next five years.

what do you see in the business for the next 3 to 5 years? I got someone says, what's a 10 year? Horizon? Someone says so it's a 5 year. I got someone asking about how do I think expenses or volume will go over the next 3 years. So I'm going to kind of combine these and kind of give you my view, um, on our business, um, because we spend a lot of time on it, like, what is the next 3 to 5 years? Look like? And I look out, I have 3 years but then we also have 5 year goals and targets. So that's I think 2031. So if we were to say the next 5 years here's like higher high higher, high land uh level or high-end thought processes on it is.

Speaker #1: While and it's important to understand while my expenses basically staying the same. With our AI initiative and our technology, the expenses you see today I'll call it roughly 600 million in the quarter.

Speaker #1: I think it's 590 or whatever. But you get my point. I expect when I do 1.0 like, each of these years, that's kind of what we'll see from expense.

Mat Ishbia: I believe that $1.3 trillion is that North Star over the next 5 years, while it is important to understand, while my expense is basically staying the same. With our AI initiatives and our technology, the expenses you see today, I'll call it roughly $600 million in the quarter. I think it was $590 million or whatever, but you get my point. I expect when I do $1.3 trillion each of these years, that's kind of what we'll see from expense. Think about volume doubling, more than doubling, and expenses the same. With that being said, there's another, which really is probably not accounted for by many of you, outside of the volume and gain on sale margins basically being in those ranges that you see, and expenses being flat.

Speaker #1: So think about volume doubling, more than doubling, and expenses the same. Now, with that being said, there's another which really is probably is not accounted for by many of you.

Speaker #1: Outside of the, the volume and gain on sale margins basically being in those ranges that you see in expenses, being flat on top of that, I see another 20%, almost 25% in other revenue coming into UWM that's starting to happen with some of these ancillary products that we have.

You know, I think UWM over the, you know, 5 Years From what have you gone, call 27 28.29 3031, those 5 years. We're expected to do over 1.3 trillion dollars in mortgages. Um, I believe we're going to do 1.3 trillion dollars or more in that 5-year window. So that's a big number. Um, you know, overall now there might be 1 year in there with 400 billion or might be 1 year in there with 150 to 200 billion, right. But I believe that 1.3 trillion is that kind of that North Star over the next 5 years while. And it's important to understand while my expenses, basically staying the same with our AI initiative, and our technology, the expenses. You see today, I'll call it roughly, 600 million in the quarter. I think it's 5.90 or whatever, but you get my point.

Speaker #1: and they're starting to really pick up steam. And so seeing revenue growth outside of just and it, and it's tied to originations, of course.

Speaker #1: But outside of just volume and gain on sale or however you wanna think about it, there's some of that's, that's in the gain on sale and some of it that's maybe not.

Mat Ishbia: On top of that, I see another 20%, almost 25% in other revenue coming into UWM that's starting to happen with some of these ancillary products that we have, and they're starting to really pick up steam. Seeing revenue growth outside of just and it's tied to originations, of course, but outside of just volume and gain on sale or however you wanna think about it, there's some of that's in the gain on sale and some of it that's maybe not, and some opportunities. That's kind of like if I were to say, I know that's high level. I didn't get into the nitty-gritty of some of these questions. Let me just read and make sure, like, and some of those other revenue sources, some of them, you know, could there be opportunities on Track+ that's really taken off?

I expect when I do 1 Point like each of these years, that's kind of what we'll see from the expense. So think about volume doubling more than doubling and expenses is the same. Now with that being said, there's another, which really is probably not accounted for by many of you outside of the the volume and gain on sale margins, basically being in those ranges that you see and expenses um being flat on top of that.

Speaker #1: and some opportunity. So that's kind of like if I were to say I know that's high level. I didn't get into the, the nitty-gritty of some of these questions.

Speaker #1: Let me just read and make sure. Like, like. And some of those other revenue sources, some of them, you know, could there be opportunities on track plus?

Speaker #1: That's really taken off. Could there be other opportunities to grow and help consumers while helping brokers and UWM winning? And so I see 1.3 trillion.

Speaker #1: I guess I'll summarize it. 1.3 trillion over five years. I see gain on sale margins basically being in these ranges, maybe slightly higher. We'll call it expenses flat or down.

Speaker #1: And it might be down. But I'll call it flat to be, to be clear. and, at the same time, other revenue tied to some AI initiatives that we have that are actually starting to sale while others are producing things that are other revenues, could be pretty cool.

Mat Ishbia: Could there be other opportunities to grow and help consumers while helping brokers and UWM winning? I see one point three tril-- I guess I'll summarize it. 1.3 trillion over 5 years. I see gain on sale margins basically being in these ranges, maybe slightly higher, we'll call it. Expenses flat or down. It might be down, I'll call it flat to be clear. At the same time, other revenue tied to some AI initiatives that we have that is actually starting to produce margin and gain on sale while others are producing things that are other revenues could be pretty cool. That's kind of where I look at that. Hopefully, that helps answer. I think that answered a handful of questions here. Let me look. Yeah. Hopefully that covers it.

Speaker #1: So that's kinda what I look at that. Hopefully that helps, answer. I think that answered a handful of questions here. Let me look. Yeah.

Speaker #1: So hopefully that covers it. Obviously, if I didn't answer it exactly, some, you know, some shorter term or more detail, like I said, Blake Kolo investor relations team will happy jump on a call anytime.

I see another 20% almost 25% in other Revenue coming into UWM but starting to happen with some of these ancillary products that we have, um, and they're starting to really pick up steam and so seeing Revenue growth outside of just and it's tied to originations, of course, but outside of just volume and gain on sale or however you want to think about it. There's some of that that's in the game that's on some of it. That's maybe not, um, and some opportunity. So that's kind of like, if I were to say, I know that's high level, I think get the, the nitty-gritty of some of these questions. Let me just read and make sure like, like in some of those other Revenue sources. Some of them, you know, could there be opportunities on track plus that's really taken off. Could there be other opportunities to grow and help consumers while helping Brokers and UWM winning. And so I see 1.3 trillion, I guess I'll summarize it 1.3 trillion over 5 years, I see gain on sale margins. Basically being in these ranges maybe slightly higher, we'll call it expenses flat or down and it might be down, but I'll call it flat to B to be clear. Um, and uh, at the same time, other Revenue.

Speaker #1: You know, Matt Ra any of those people you can talk to. all right. Let's see. Let's see. I got Kyle Joseph, another question. Home buyer.

Tied to some AI initiatives that we have that are actually starting to produce margin and and and gain on sale While others are producing things that are other revenues um, could be pretty cool. So that's kind of what I look at that. Hopefully that helps um answer I think that answered a handful of questions here. Let me look

Speaker #1: Like, how are you thinking of the home buyer privacy protection act and its potential impacts on the industry competitive the industry competitive environments and overall margin?

Mat Ishbia: Obviously, if I didn't answer it exactly, some, you know, shorter term or more detail, like I said, Blake Kolo, investor relations team will happy to jump on a call anytime. You know, Matt Roth, any of those people you can talk to. All right, let's see. I got Kyle Joseph, another question. Home buyer. Like, How are you thinking the Home Buyer Privacy Protection Act and its potential impacts on the industry competitive environments and overall margin? All right. Kyle, let me answer that question. He's talking about the trigger lead rule. The trigger lead rule, you know, I think about 4 March, I think is the date. It's definitely changed. You know, when a consumer used to pull credit, man, 50 people would call.

Speaker #1: All right. So Kyle, let me answer that question. And he's talking about the trigger lead rule. the trigger lead rule you know, I think he about March 4th, I think is the date.

Yeah, so hopefully that covers it obviously if I didn't answer it. Exactly. Uh some, you know, some shorter term or more detail, like I said, Blake Colo, investor relations team will happy to jump on a call any time you know Matt Raab any of those people you can talk to um,

All right, let's see.

Speaker #1: And so it's definitely changed. You know, when a consumer used to pull credit, man, 50 people would call him. Now it's the servicer, the original lender, original broker, you know, maybe their bank.

Speaker #1: It's like three, four. And so what it's actually done is changed the competitive landscape, probably better experience for consumers. They're not getting 50 calls.

See, I got Kyle Joseph, another question home buyer like how are you thinking the home? Buyer? Privacy, protection act and its potential impacts on the industry. Competitive industry, competitive environments and overall margin

Speaker #1: So that's one thing. I think that was the goal of Congress and people that pushed this. you know, on the flip side, you know, the consumers maybe don't get as many options, you know, 'cause, you know, you get offered one thing.

All right. So, Kyle, let me answer that question, and you’re talking about the trigger lead rule. Um, the trigger lead rule, you know, I think it's about March 4th—I think that's the date—and so it's definitely changed, you know, when a consumer used to pull credit, man.

Mat Ishbia: Now, it's the servicer, the original lender, original broker, you know, maybe their bank. It's like 3, 4. What it's actually done is change the competitive landscape. Probably better experience for consumers. They're not getting 50 calls. That's 1 thing. I think that was the goal of Congress and people that pushed this. You know, on the flip side, you know, the consumers maybe don't get as many options, you know, 'cause, you know, you get offered 1 thing you don't know any better than you get offered 6.5% or with $5,000 of fees, and you don't know any better, and no one else is offering things. You might pay that when you could have gotten 6.25% with $3,000 of fees by working with a mortgage broker, going to MortgageMatchup.com or going somewhere like that.

Speaker #1: You don't know any better. And you get offered six and a half percent or with $5,000 of fees. And you don't know any better.

Speaker #1: And no one else is offering things. You might pay that when you could have gotten six and a quarter with $3,000 of fees by working with a mortgage broker, going to mortgagematchup.com or going somewhere like that.

Speaker #1: And so the trigger leads would get more people and make people compete more. So from a competitive landscape, I could say I could argue that that's maybe not as good for the consumer, the experience is better, but maybe the rates and fees aren't.

50 people would call them now it's the serer, the original lender, original broker, you know, maybe their bank. It's like 3 4 and so what it's actually done is change the competitive length. You probably better experience for consumers. They're not getting 50 calls. So that's 1 thing. I think that was the goal of Congress and people that pushed this, um, you know, on the flip side, you know, the consumers, maybe don't get as many options, you know, because you know, get offered 1 thing, you don't know any better than you get offered 6 and a half.

Speaker #1: But once again, if you're only winning on rates and fees, you ain't gonna be around long in this business. So that, that's, that's part of it.

Speaker #1: Now, like, so, so I could argue that it actually will increase margins. And you might see gain on sale margin increase a little bit because people aren't you know, low ball, low ball, low ball, low ball to win a loan because there's not 19 people calling them, you know, in my know, I think it's been good.

Mat Ishbia: The trigger leads would get more people and make people compete more. From a competitive landscape, I could say, I could argue that that's maybe not as good for the consumer. The experience is better, maybe the rates and fees aren't. Once again, if you're only winning on rates and fees, you ain't gonna be around long in this business. That's part of it. Now, like I could argue that it actually will increase margins, and you might see gain on sale margins increase a little bit because people aren't, you know, lowball, lowball to win a loan because there's not 19 people calling them, you know, in my example. You know, I think it's been good. It's been good overall.

Speaker #1: It's been good overall. I don't have a huge preference one way or forward or against it. But I'm just telling you what the results have been, you know, still early.

Speaker #1: It's only been 60 days or so. since that rule came out. But that's what we're seeing right now. But, you know, brokers, our brokers that work with trigger leads, they're just finding out that people are buying data now.

Speaker #1: So it's just not trigger leads. There's other forms of buying data. So people are still getting leads. And so it's still competitive. So I don't wanna make it seem like there's it's just you go to one and you don't hear anything.

So so I could argue that it actually will increase margins and you might see gain on sale margin increase a little bit because people aren't, you know, low ball, low ball, low ball, low ball to win a loan because there's not 19 people calling them, you know, in my example. So, um,

Mat Ishbia: I don't have a huge preference one way for it or against it, but I'm just telling you what the results have been. You know, still early. It's only been 60 days or so since that rule came out. That's what we're seeing right now. You know, brokers, our brokers that work with trigger leads, they're just finding other people are buying data now. It's just not trigger leads, it's other forms of buying data. People are still getting leads, it's still competitive. I don't wanna make it seem like it's just you go to one and you don't hear anything, but it's a lot less. It's changed the competitive environment on that. Hopefully that answers your question, Kyle. Let's see. Hopefully, this format's good for you. I feel like we've gone through a lot of questions.

Speaker #1: But it's a lot less. And so it's changed the competitive environment on that. So hopefully that answers your question, Kyle. let's see. Hopefully this format's good for you.

Speaker #1: I feel like we've gone through a lot of questions. let's see. here's one. a couple have asked a little bit about debt ratios. Let me go through.

Speaker #1: Why'd secure debt go up relative to other aspects of the balance sheet? And, you know, how do we look at the debt ratio? So obviously we look at the debt ratios every day.

You know, I think it's been good. It's been good. Overall, I don't have a huge preference 1 way forward or against it, but I'm just telling you what the results have been, you know, still early, it's only been 60 days or so. Um since that rule came out but that's what we're seeing right now. But you know Brokers our Brokers that work with trigger leads. They're just finding out that people are buying data now. So it's just not trigger leads. It's the other forms of buying data so people are still getting leads and so it's still competitive. So I don't want to make it seem like there's it's just you go to 1 and you don't hear anything but it's a lot less. And so it's changing competitive environment on that. So, hopefully that answers your question Kyle. Um,

Let's see.

Mat Ishbia: Let's see. Here's one. A couple have asked a little bit about debt ratios. Let me go through why secured debt go up relative to other aspects of the balance sheet and, you know, how do we look at the debt ratio. Obviously we look at the debt ratios every day. We're very focused on them. The debt ratio was really good a couple of years ago, and the volume and the business wasn't as good. Now I think the business is really good and the debt ratios aren't as good as we'd like. At the same time, some of those debt ratios are a little bit of an anomaly based on and same thing with the liquidity number, based on some trades we have out there to help balance the MSR book.

Speaker #1: we're very focused on them. the debt ratios were really good a couple years ago. And the volume and the business wasn't as good. And now I think the business is really good.

Hopefully this format's good for you. I feel like we've gone through a lot of questions. Um,

let's see.

Um,

Speaker #1: And the debt ratios aren't as good as we'd like. But at the same time, some of those debt ratios are a little bit of an anomaly based on and same thing with the liquidity number, based on some trades we have out there.

here's 1, uh,

Speaker #1: So help balance the MSR book. And so that's sometimes goes up and down. And it at the end of the quarter it was up.

Speaker #1: But it's already come down a little bit now. And so those things change and fluctuate a little bit, which kinda throws those ratios off a little bit from what you're looking at.

Speaker #1: So they're better than you see. But, at the same time, like I said, I feel really good about it. We watch the numbers closely.

A couple of baskets a little bit about debt ratio. So let me go through the wide secured debt, go up relative to other aspects of the balance sheet. And you know, how do we look at the debt ratio? So obviously we look at the debt ratios every day. Um, we're very focused on them. Um, the debt ratio is really good a couple years ago and the volume and the business wasn't as good. And now, I think the business is really good and the debt ratios aren't as good as we'd like. But at the same time,

Speaker #1: The key is earnings, right? And we're starting to see them you saw we had a very good earnings quarter, in the first quarter. I won't say very good.

Mat Ishbia: That sometimes goes up and down, at the end of the quarter, it was up, but it's already come down a little bit now. Those things change and fluctuate a little bit, which kind of throws those ratios off a little bit from what you're looking at. They're better than you see, but at the same time, like I said, I feel really good about it. We watch the numbers closely. The key is earnings, right? We're starting to see them. You saw we had a very good earnings quarter in Q1. I won't say very good. I'll say good. There will be quarters that we have a lot bigger earnings, but we're monitoring it, managing it, you know.

Speaker #1: I'll say good. and there'll be quarters that we have a lot bigger earnings. But we're monitoring it, managing it, you know. we obviously really believe in delivering value to our shareholders.

Speaker #1: Of whether it's, a dividend, which we've been doing obviously. But then, you know, buyback shares or other things, how do we continue to add value to our shareholders?

Speaker #1: And that's what we think about a lot. And so, overall, our leverage ratios, our debt ratios we feel really good about where they are.

Um, some of those debt ratios are a little bit of an anomaly based on and same thing with the liquidity number, um, based on some trades, we have out there to help balance the MSR book. And so that's sometimes goes up and down. And at the end of the quarter, it was up, but it's already come down a little bit now. And so those things change and fluctuate a little bit, which kind of throws those ratios off a little bit from what you're looking at. So, they're better than you see, but um, at the same time like I said, I feel really good about it. We watched the numbers closely, the key is earnings, right? And we're starting to see them, you saw we had a very good earnings quarter, um, in the first quarter, I won't say very good, I'll say

Speaker #1: We monitor them. We manage them. and we understand them very, very well. And, there's a lot of levers we can pull to make those ratios better.

Mat Ishbia: We obviously really believe in delivering value to our shareholders of whether it's a dividend, which we've been doing obviously, you know, buy back shares or other things. How do we continue to add value to our shareholders? That's what we think about a lot. Overall, our leverage ratios, our debt ratios, we feel really good about where they are. We monitor them, we manage them, and we understand them very, very well. There's a lot of levers we can pull to make those ratios better while still doing more business and having higher earnings. You'll see some of those in Q2 and then beyond, overall. I feel good about that. I think that covered a couple people on that.

Speaker #1: While still doing more business and having higher earnings. And so you'll see some of those in the second quarter and then beyond. overall. So I feel good about that.

Speaker #1: I think that covered a couple people on that. Let me just make sure I didn't miss a, a topic on that for anybody. Okay.

Speaker #1: So let's keep moving and let's see. I'm gonna try to hit a couple of these. But Jason Stewart, another one. And once again, please feel free to email.

Mat Ishbia: Let me just make sure I didn't miss a topic on that for anybody. Okay, let's keep moving and let's see. I'm gonna try to hit a couple of these, but Jason Stewart, another one. Once again, please feel free to email. Like I know I can't do them live right now 'cause I'm on a Zoom with you guys, but I'm trying to make sure I cover everyone's questions and make sure. Here's a question kind of tied about from Jason from Compass Point. During periods of heightened volatility at the start of the year, how did you manage lock duration and pricing cadence? Did you increase frequency of rate sheet updates? I'll talk about that. How much volatility is over by Bilt Rewards? It's got nothing to do with that, but I'll explain that in a second.

Speaker #1: Like, I know I can't do them live right now 'cause I'm on a Zoom with you guys. But I'm trying to make sure I cover everyone's questions and make sure but, here's, here's a question kinda tied about from Jason, from Compass Point.

Good. Um, and there will be quarters, that we have a lot bigger earnings but we're monitoring it managing it, you know. Um, we obviously really believe in delivering value to our shareholders of whether it's, uh, a dividend which we've been doing, obviously, but then, you know, buy back shares or other things. How do we continue to add value to our shareholders? And that's what we think about a lot. And so, um, overall, our leverage ratio is our debt ratio. We feel really good about where they are. We monitor them. We manage them. Um, and we understand them very, very well. And, um, there's a lot of levers, we can pull to make those ratios better while still doing more business and having higher earnings. And so, you'll see some of those in the second quarter and then beyond, um, overall. So I feel good about that. I think that covered a couple people on that. Let me just make sure I didn't miss a, a topic on that for anybody.

okay, so let's keep moving and

Speaker #1: During periods of high, heightened volatility at the start of the year, how do you make you don't even manage lock duration and pricing cadence.

let's see. Um,

Speaker #1: Did you increase frequency of rate sheet updates? I'll talk about that. How much volatility is a war by built-in rewards? It's got nothing to do with that.

Speaker #1: But I'll explain that in a second. And impact of purchase boost 50 and some of these. So let me just talk pricing and dynamics and volatility.

let's try to hit a couple of these but Jason Stewart, another 1, and once again, please feel free to email like I know I can't do them live right now because I'm on a zoom with you guys, but I'm trying to make sure I cover everyone's questions and make sure but um,

Speaker #1: So first off, yeah, I mean, the market's been very volatile. And so we have an extremely experienced capital markets team. And so yeah, sometimes you have two and three different rate sheets in a day.

Here's here's a question kind of tight about from Jason um from compass point.

Speaker #1: Maybe four, you know, rates get better, we're improving, improving out there 'cause we don't put an improvement out there. We won't get the loans 'cause we want the brokers to have the, the, the most competitive opportunity they have.

Mat Ishbia: Impact of Purchase Boost 50 and some of these. Let me just talk pricing and dynamics and volatility. First off, yeah, I mean, the market's been very volatile, and so we have an extremely experienced capital markets team. Yes, sometimes you have 2 and 3 different rate sheets in a day, maybe 4. You know, rates get better, we're putting an improvement out there because if we don't put an improvement out there, we won't get the loans 'cause we want the brokers to have the most competitive opportunity to have. Pricing get worse, we have to worsen pricing. But like, as you guys know, these numbers are all day, all day. We have different thresholds that we move pricing up or down.

Speaker #1: pricing get worse. We have to worsen pricing. But like, as you guys know, this, these numbers are all day, all day. And so we have different thresholds that we move pricing up or down.

Speaker #1: and so when we hit those, we're, we like I said, I, I bet there's been days of four, maybe even five and then there's some days that you put a rate sheet out at 10:00 AM, nothing changes all day or it doesn't move enough that I would make a, a price change.

During periods of high, heightened volatility at the start of the year. How do you make you don't manage lock duration and pricing? Cadence, did you increase frequency of rate sheet updates? I'll talk about that. How much volatility is a war by built and rewards? It's got nothing to do with that, but I'll explain that in a second and impact of purchase, boost 50 and something. So let me just talk pricing and Dynamics and volatility. So, first off, yeah, I mean, the Market's been very volatile and so we have an extremely experienced Capital markets team. And so yeah, sometimes you have 2 and 3 different rate sheets in a day.

Speaker #1: 'Cause you wanna have some consistency for our clients as well. so that's a balance. But we feel really good about that. And that's why you saw a really strong margins, you know.

Mat Ishbia: When we hit those, like I said, I bet there's been days of 4, maybe even 5. Then there's some days that you put a rate sheet out at 10:00 AM, nothing changes all day, or it doesn't move enough that I would make a price change 'cause you wanna have some consistency for our clients as well. That's a balance, but we feel really good about that, and that's why you saw really strong margins, you know, Q4, by the way, and Q1. You'll see them same thing in Q2, strong margins, and our team manages risk and volatility. I think that answers most of your question. You had a thing about Bilt Rewards, and that doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Speaker #1: fourth quarter, by the way, and first quarter, and you'll see them same thing in the second quarter. Strong margins, and we, we our team manages risk and volatility.

Speaker #1: So I think that answers most of your question. You had a, a thing about built-in rewards and that doesn't really have anything to do with it.

Maybe 4, you know, rates you get better, we're improving and improving out there because we don't put an improvement out there. We won't get the loans because we want the Brokers to have the the most competitive opportunity. They have um, pricing to get worse. We have to get worse in pricing, but like, as you guys know this, these numbers are all day, all day. And so we have different thresholds that we move pricing up or down. Um, and so when we hit those like I said, I I bet there's been days of 4 maybe even 5 and then there's some days that you put a rate sheet out at 10 a.m. nothing changes all day or it doesn't move enough that I would make a price change because you want to have some

Speaker #1: Built-in rewards is just another benefit of brokers, using UWM and consumers paying UWM as a servicer because they get rewards points and they get some cool things through built, which I kind of explained earlier.

Some consistency for our clients as well. Um, so that's a balance, but we feel really good about that.

Speaker #1: So it's got nothing to do with gain on sale or pricing, to be honest with you at all. and then kind of another question from you.

Speaker #1: And I, I think it's all one, but I'm kind of answering it. so sorry to keep hitting on your same question, Jason. purchase boost 50 or pricing initiatives.

Mat Ishbia: Bilt Rewards is just another benefit of brokers using UWM and the consumers paying UWM as a servicer because they get rewards points, and they get some cool things through Bilt, which I kind of explained earlier. It's got nothing to do with gain on sale or pricing, to be honest with you at all. Then kind of another question from you, and I think it's all one, but I'm kind of answering it. Sorry to keep hitting on your same question, Jason. Purchase Boost 50 or pricing initiatives like, you know, all those things are designed to help brokers succeed and win. Our brokers are not, I need the lowest price to succeed, 'cause you know what?

And that's why you saw really strong margins, you know, um, fourth quarter, by the way, and first quarter, um, and you'll see the same thing in the second quarter—strong margins. Um, and we, we, our team manages risk and volatility. So I think that answers most of your question. You had a, a thing about built-in rewards and

That doesn't really have anything to do with a built-in rewards is just another benefit.

Speaker #1: Like, so, you know, all those things are designed to help brokers succeed and win. our brokers are not, "I need the lowest price to succeed." 'Cause you know what?

Speaker #1: If that was the case, they'd have the they'd have they'd cut their comp in half and they'd all use provident funding. And that, that doesn't make if it lowest price does not win.

Speaker #1: Lowest fees does not win. A lot of our price incentives are more strategic than that. They're incenting brokers with a price incentive but to use a tool bar.

Cool things through built, which I kind of explained earlier. So it's got nothing to do with gain on sale or pricing to be honest with you at all. Um, and then kind of another question from you and I think it's all 1 but I'm kind of answering it. Um, so sorry to keep hitting on your same question Jason. Um,

Speaker #1: So I think, I think it was in the fourth quarter, maybe even the beginning of the first quarter, we had a, an incentive tied to, 40 or 45 base points.

Mat Ishbia: If that was the case, they'd cut their comp in half, and they'd all use Provident Funding, and that doesn't mean if lowest price does not win. Lowest fees does not win. A lot of our price incentives are more strategic than that. They're incenting brokers with a price incentive, but to use a toolbar. I think it was in Q4, maybe even the beginning of Q1, we had a incentive tied to 40 or 45 basis points, but use a hybrid or virtual closing 'cause I know that makes the experience better for the consumer, which then makes the consumer more likely to like you, John Smith, at Smith Mortgage broker, and more likely to refinance with you in the future.

Speaker #1: But use a hybrid or virtual closing. 'Cause I know that makes experience better for the consumer, which then makes the consumer more likely to like you, John Smith at Smith Mortgage, the broker, and more likely to refinance with you in the future.

Speaker #1: How do we make the borrower happy to score, which we track on every single loan higher? And so a lot of those are investments.

Speaker #1: and it's all put in the gain on sale. So when you see I did some stuff in the fourth quarter. I did some in the first quarter.

Speaker #1: And the gain on sale is still much higher than it was last year in the first quarter. So understanding that 123 base points, I think, is what it was in the first quarter or 122 in the fourth quarter.

Mat Ishbia: How do we make the borrower happy to score, which we track on every single loan, higher? A lot of those are investments, and it's all put in the gain on sale. When you see I did some stuff in Q4, I did some in Q1, and the gain on sale is still much higher than it was last year in Q1. Understanding that 123 basis points, I think is what it was in Q1, 122 in Q4. I understand the margins. I personally get involved with it every single day, so you know. We track it, we understand where we're at with these things, and we give a very competitive price to our broker. We add significant value to our brokers to help them win more loans.

Speaker #1: I understand the margins. I personally get involved with it every single day. So, you know, so we track it. We understand where we're at with these things.

Speaker #1: And we give a very competitive price to our broker. We add significant value to our broker to help them win more loans. We give the best service in the industry.

Purchase boost 50 your pricing initiatives. Like so, you know, all those things are designed to help Brokers succeed and win. Um, our Brokers are not, I need the lowest price to succeed, because you know what? If that was the case, they'd have the they'd have they'd cut their comp in half, and they'd all use Provident Funding and that that doesn't make if if lowest price does not win lowest fees, does not win. A lot of our pricing incentives are more strategic than that they're incensing Brokers with a price incentive but to use a toolbar. So I think, I think it was in the fourth quarter, maybe even in the beginning of the first quarter, we had a an incentive tied to um 40 or 45 basis points, but use a hybrid or virtual closing because I know that makes experience better for the consumer, which then makes the consumer more likely to like you John Smith at Smith mortgage broker and more likely to refinance with you in the future. How do we make the borrower happy to score, which we track on every single loan higher. And so a lot of those are investments. Um, and it's all put in the gain on sales. So, when you see, I did some stuff in the fourth quarter.

Speaker #1: We come out with AI tools and technology. We invest with free credit reports for brokers to help them compete even more and, and help more consumers.

I did some of the first quarter, and the gain on sale is

Speaker #1: And then part I can go through all these things. I'm not gonna go through them all. But it's all part of the deal. And so, hopefully that makes sense.

Still much higher than it was last year in the first quarter. So understanding that 123 base points I think is what it was in the first quarter or 122 and the fourth quarter.

Speaker #1: But I hope you realize that one thing I said there, which maybe I've not done a good job explaining, is a lot of these decisions are strategic to help brokers win.

Mat Ishbia: We give the best service in the industry. We come out with AI tools and technology. We invest with free credit reports for brokers to help them compete even more and help more consumers. Part I can go through all these things. I'm not gonna go through them all, but it's all part of the deal. Hopefully that makes sense. I hope you realize that one thing I said there, which maybe I've not done a good job explaining, is a lot of these decisions are strategic to help brokers win. Sometimes brokers never done a virtual closing, and it's them getting extra 45 basis points will get them to do it.

Speaker #1: Sometimes brokers have never done a virtual closing and it's been getting extra 45 base points. We'll get them to do it. And then they do it all, all the loans now, even though they don't get that incentive because they realize there's the best thing for the consumer and it'll help them build their business and grow and be a better experience.

I understand the margins. I personally get involved with it every single day so, you know, so we track it, we understand where we're at with these things and we give a very competitive price to our broker. We add significant value to our Brokers to help them win more loans. We give the best service in the industry. We come out with AI tools and Technology. We invest with free credit reports for Brokers to help them compete even more and help, more consumers. And then part, I can go through all these things. I'm not going to go through them all but it's all part of the deal. And so um, hope that makes sense.

Speaker #1: And then we all win. If brokers win, UWM wins. When consumers realize the fastest, easiest, cheapest way to get a mortgage is through brokers, UWM wins.

Speaker #1: Real estate agents win. Like, we're all one team because that's best for consumers. When a consumer goes to some random commercial or goes to their local bank, which by the way, no disrespect to any of those people, but they usually are paying higher rates.

Mat Ishbia: They do it on all the loans now, even though they don't get that incentive, because they realize it's the best thing for the consumer, and it'll help them build their business and grow and be a better experience. We all win. If brokers win, UWM wins. Consumers realize the fastest, easiest, cheapest way to get a mortgage is through brokers, UWM wins. Real estate agents win. Like, we're all one team because that's best for consumers. A consumer goes to some random commercial or goes to their local bank, which by the way, no disrespect to any of those people, but they usually are paying higher rates. A consumer goes to MortgageMatchup.com, they're gonna find a broker that's gonna get them a better rate, better fees, and a better experience.

Speaker #1: When a consumer goes to mortgagematchup.com, they're gonna find a broker that's gonna get them a better rate, better fees, and a better experience. And so anything I can do to drive more business there is what I will do.

But I hope you realize that one thing I said there—it's me; I have not done a good job explaining—a lot of these decisions are strategic to help brokers win. Sometimes brokers have never done a virtual closing, and it's been getting extra 45 basis points, we'll get them to do it, and then they do it on all the loans now, even though they don't get that incentive because they realize it's the best thing for the consumer and helps them build their business and grow and be a better experience. And then we all win. If brokers win, UWM wins. When consumers realize the fastest, easiest, cheapest way to get a mortgage is through brokers.

Speaker #1: I think I've covered a lot of I know I didn't answer every question. I apologize. But I did combine a bunch of 'em. So I think I've covered most themes, if that's the right way of thinking about it.

Speaker #1: Let me just make sure. UWM live questions. I think I kind of answered UWM live about it's, it's next week. So thank you for those of you that are coming.

You WM wins real estate agents win. Like we're all 1 team because that's best for consumers. When the consumer goes to, some random commercial or goes to their local bank, which by the way, no disrespect any of those people, but they usually are paying higher rates. When a consumer goes to mortgage matchup.com,

Mat Ishbia: Anything I can do to drive more business there is what I will do. I think I've covered a lot of I know I didn't answer every question. I apologize, but I did combine a bunch of them. I think I've covered most themes, if that's the right way of thinking about it. Let me just make sure. UWM LIVE! questions. I think I kind of answered UWM LIVE! about. It's next week, so thank you for those of you that are coming. It's going to be a great. It's the biggest mortgage event of the year. Please come. I look forward. I'm going to meet with some investors, analysts, and anybody that's out there. I spend time. I'm there all day. We got some great speakers. It's really cool to see the broker community.

Speaker #1: It's gonna be a great it's the biggest mortgage event of the year. And so please come. I look forward. I'm, I'm gonna meet with some investors, analysts, anybody that's out there.

They're going to find a broker that's going to get them a better rate, better fees, and a better experience, and so anything I can do to drive more business there is what I will do.

Um,

covered.

Speaker #1: Like, I spend time. I'm there all day. We got some great speakers. It's really cool to see the broker community. So I think that's kind of answering your question here about is UWM live.

A lot of, I know I didn't answer every question. I apologize, but I did combine a bunch of them, so I think I've covered most themes, if that's the right way of thinking about it, let me just make sure

Speaker #1: Am I gonna be there? Of course I'm gonna be there. I love that. I'm here every day grinding at it. So, we're about 40 minutes.

Speaker #1: I feel like we've covered a lot of the questions. I don't know. How about this? just make sure I'm not missing anyone's specific question that asked.

Mat Ishbia: I think that's kind of answering your question here about, is UWM LIVE! Am I gonna be there? Of course, I'm gonna be there. I love that. I'm here every day grinding at it. We're about 40 minutes. I feel like we've covered a lot of the questions. I don't know. How about this? Just make sure I'm not missing anyone's specific question that asked. I think I've covered it all. Let me know how you like the format. Maybe next month I can see you guys too, and we can have more interaction. Either way, hopefully you like the format. Hopefully, it's different. I know that last quarter you didn't like that we didn't do the Q&A, I'm here for it. I love this. I'll do this anytime with you guys.

You w live questions. I think I kind of answered WM live about if it's next week. So thank you for those of you that are coming. It's gonna be a great. It's the biggest mortgage event of the year and so please come, I look forward to. I'm gonna meet with some investors analysts anybody that's out there. I I spend time, I'm there all day, we got some great speakers.

Speaker #1: I think I've covered it all. let me know how you like the fi the format. Maybe next month I can see you guys too and we can have more interaction.

Speaker #1: but either way, hopefully you like the format. Hopefully it's different. I know that last quarter you didn't like that we didn't do the Q&A.

It's really cool to see the broker community so I think that's kind of answering your question. Here about is, W live am I going to be there? Of course, I'm going to be there, I love that. I'm here every day grinding at it. So um,

Speaker #1: So I'm here for it. I love this. I'll, I'll do this. Anytime with you guys. I enjoy talking about our business. But also you can use me as talking about the industry.

We're about 40 minutes. I feel like we've covered a lot of the questions. Um I don't know how about this um,

just make sure I'm not missing anyone's specific questions that asked um,

Speaker #1: 'Cause this is what I live, breathe, and sleep every day. So please give us feedback. Give our investor relationship team on the, on the format if you liked it.

I think I've covered it all. Um,

Speaker #1: if make sure we didn't if we didn't answer questions, I apologize. I think I got everybody. But if I didn't and you're answering anything so investor relationship team, Blake, that whole team will, will answer all your questions.

Mat Ishbia: I enjoy talking about our business, but also you can use me to talk about the industry because this is what I live and breathe and sleep every day. Please give us feedback. Give our investor relations team on the format if you liked it. If we didn't answer your questions, I apologize. I think I got everybody. If I didn't, and you're asking, investor relations team, Blake, that whole team will answer all your questions. We appreciate you guys. Thanks for being partners at UWM, shareholders, investors, and analysts. Anything we can do to help make your life easier, thanks for everything. We're gonna keep winning together, hopefully, with our brokers, the broker community, and UWM is gonna continue to grow with my amazing team members here at UWM. Thank you for your time.

Speaker #1: And, we appreciate you guys. So thanks for being partners at UWM, shareholders, investors, analysts. Anything we do to help make your life easier, thanks for everything.

Speaker #1: and we're gonna keep winning together. Hopefully with our brokers, the broker community, and UWM's gonna continue to grow with my amazing team members here at UWM.

Let me know how you like the, the format, maybe next month. I can see you guys too and we can have more interaction. Um, but either way, um, hopefully you like the format. Hopefully, it's different. I know that last quarter. You didn't like that, we didn't do the Q&A. So I'm here for it. I love this, I I'll do this anytime with you guys. I enjoy talking about our business but also you can use me as talking about the industry because this is what I live the breathe and sleep every day. So please give us feedback. Give me a rest.

Speaker #1: So thank you for your time. Excited about the future here at UWM, the second quarter's gonna be great as well. And we'll do the same format again unless I get a lot of different feedback that you didn't like it.

Religious team on the, on the format if you liked it. Um, if—make sure we didn't—if we didn't answer questions, I apologize. I think I got everybody, but if I didn't and you're answering agents, investor relations team, Blake, that whole team will answer all your questions and, uh,

Mat Ishbia: Excited about the future here at UWM. Q2 is gonna be great as well, and we'll do the same format again, unless I get a lot of different feedback that you didn't like it. Hopefully you did, and hopefully it was valuable to you to spend this time with me. Have a great day.

We appreciate you guys, so thanks for being partners at UWM—shareholders, investors, analysts—anything we can do to help make your life easier. Thanks for everything. Um, and we're going to keep winning together, hopefully with our brokers, the broker community, and UWM is going to continue to grow with my amazing team members here at UWM. So thank you for your time. Excited about the future here at UWM. The second course will be great as well, and we'll do the same formula again unless I get a lot of different feedback that you didn't like it. But hopefully you did, and hopefully it was valuable to you to spend this time with me. Have a great day.